Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Style vs Function - Ep 149
2.1k Plays2 years ago
In this episode Carlton and David dip their toes into the style vs function debate in archaeology. This debate towards material culture stems from the transition of the Culture History approach into the New Archaeology paradigm of the mid 20th century. David and Carlton talk about the origin of the debate then provide several case-studies to illustrate their point. Per usual, the episode goes off the rails half way through the episode and somehow N*Sync, Elon Musk, and the next gen gaming consoles get brought up. As is tradition.
If you have left a podcast review on iTunes or Spotify, please email us at alifeinruinspodcast@gmail.com so we can get shipping information to send you a sticker.
If you are listening to this episode on the "Archaeology Podcast Network All Shows Feed," please consider subscribing to the "A Life in Ruins Podcast" channel to support our show. Listening to and downloading our episodes on the A Life in Ruins channel helps our podcast grow. So please, subscribe to the A Life in Ruins Podcast, hosted by the Archaeology Podcast Network, on whichever platform you use to listen to us on the "All Shows Feed." Please support our show by following our channel.
Transcripts
For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/ruins/149
Literature Recommendations
- Style and Function: A Fundamental Dichotomy by Robert C. Dunnell 1978
Contact
- Email: alifeinruinspodcast@gmail.com
- Instagram: @alifeinruinspodcast
- Facebook: @alifeinruinspodcast
- Twitter: @alifeinruinspod
- Website: www.alifeinruins.com
- Ruins on APN: https://www.archaeologypodcastnetwork.com/ruins
- Store: https://www.redbubble.com/people/alifeinruins/shop
ArchPodNet
- APN Website: https://www.archpodnet.com
- APN on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/archpodnet
- APN on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/archpodnet
- APN on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/archpodnet
- Tee Public Store
Affiliates
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Hosts
00:00:19
Speaker
I'm your host, Carl Tugover, and I'm joined by my co
Connor's Absence Explained
00:00:22
Speaker
-host, David Howe. Connor is not here tonight. He is currently cosplaying as the hunchback of Notre Dame. Oh my God. The dude slipped a disc. I think the hunchback slipped a couple of discs.
00:00:22
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
Exploring Fume Product
00:00:45
Speaker
So it doesn't happen. I ordered one of those, by the way, finally.
00:00:48
Speaker
A hunchback? No, not the hunchback, the thing in your hand. What is it called? Oh, a fume? Yeah, I ordered one. I just have an oral fixation of putting a lot of things in my mouth, so this is what I like to use it for. Same, bro. You can actually go to www.fume.com slash ruins and get yourself 20% off of this fume stick thing.
00:01:13
Speaker
Where do you re-up pods for those things or the filters? Probably www.fume.com slash ruins. Excellent. Uh, it literally is just flavored air is all this thing is. I've never like jeweled or nicotine. What do you vape in my life, but I just, I like breathing in cranberry flavored air, I guess. Is there any vapor that comes out?
00:01:34
Speaker
No, it's straight up like you're just inhaling a mint through an $80 tube, $60 tube. If you go to life, fucking I did use that promo and I did order the journey pack, which came with one of the, the one device and a month's worth of flavored air cartridges.
00:01:57
Speaker
This sounds about right. So looking forward to it. But, uh, today we're not, we've gotten distracted.
Style vs Function in Archaeology
00:02:03
Speaker
We've gotten way off off topic per usual. But today on this episode of one 49 episode, one 49 of life from the podcast. Apologies. Me and David wanted to dive into the very riveting, exciting and cutting edge topic of style versus function. Yes, we do.
00:02:26
Speaker
Why is this?
00:02:31
Speaker
concept, this classification of, is it even considered a classification? It's basically just about the form of objects and then. Style versus function is like the idea that if you dig up an artifact, you can look at it and if it's say a by face or a projectile point or a knife, you know, okay, this is a cutting implement. That's its function.
00:02:58
Speaker
but like the style is a Clovis point versus an archaic try-notch point. Is there a different function between those two things or is it just style? And you can look at that through today and it's like is an iPhone the function is to call and use the web and you know it's a million different things but a thousand years from now and someone digs it up they're gonna be like I think these smaller ones were probably
00:03:21
Speaker
more efficient for carrying than the bigger ones or something.
Artifact Categorization
00:03:24
Speaker
It's just like, how do we look at this archaeologically? And you can apply it to any modern tool that you could dig up. Absolutely. The dichotomy between style and function was first formulated in the late 1970s by Robert Dunnell and remains axiomatic within the theoretical perspective of evolutionary archaeology. The original definitions of style and function were grounded in biological evolutionary concepts regarding neutral variation versus variation that is subject to natural selection.
00:03:49
Speaker
Basically what the deal is here is when we're looking at the archaeological record, especially when it comes to a material culture that is in deep time and trying to categorize, identify the use of objects, it gets a little wonky because of course the people from that time can't speak for themselves and generally, depending on how far back in time you're going, how useful the ethnographic record can be in
00:04:17
Speaker
interpreting these objects gets really difficult.
Significance of Fluted Projectile Points
00:04:20
Speaker
So especially when it comes to, I think to me, when I think of style versus function, David, like flutes on a paleo Indian point. Yes. Come to mind because they, after, what is it like? Folsom points, projectile points aren't fluted anymore. It just kind of goes away. Folsom is like one of the later ones. Yeah. That might be one or two others, but Folsom would be the bigger one.
00:04:46
Speaker
Clovis, Folsom, Cumberland. And for those that are listening who have no idea what a flute is, a flute, like if you imagine a projectile point or narrow head, spear point, whatever. Imagine a racing stripe up the middle. That's an excellent description. I was really struggling. Yeah, like a little notch of a, sometimes a nap, flint nap. Your face is okay.
00:05:10
Speaker
of the center and it just largely disappears. Now I have heard, and I can't tell who I heard this by, that like the process of fluting a point, which happens at the end of production of a projectile point, if done incorrectly, will snap a point and all the time you just put into creating that point is now wasted except for practice. 40% fail rate, I believe. Really? That's pretty high.
00:05:36
Speaker
I think it might be lower. That might be among modernappers. I don't know what it is in the past. Gotcha. Yeah. It's either 40 or 30 percent. It's pretty high. Have you ever fluted a point before? Yes. Only one successfully. The other six have broken in half. So you have like a 15 percent success rate. Yes. It's a pretty low success rate. I've never got to the point in a projectile production to even be close to somewhere where I can flute.
00:06:04
Speaker
because I'm good for you, dude. Were they like Clovis points or Folsom's? Well, I attempted to make a Clovis point. It might look like a Colby and I just tried to float it, flute it. At least I'm just a Colby point of Clovis point that's undergone the frozen effect. They're just bigger Clovis points to me, but yes, they were smaller. The one I made was bigger.
00:06:26
Speaker
Oh, gotcha. Sounds good. To my understanding. Anyway, yeah, we're losing track here. Yes. So the point of the fluting would be like, some people should think it so you can have to better. I think that's the major idea. I would subscribe to that. It's like thinner to put on the shaft, but other people think it might be like a rite of passage like, Oh, can you fill it up this cool? You can, you can join our club.
00:06:49
Speaker
other people think it might do with bloodletting, like a katana. Yeah. Like katanas have blood grooves down the side of them so that when you stab them into somebody, the suction doesn't go all around it. Like the blood automatically comes out. So it like stops the wound from sealing. So I thought flutes were doing that. But that part of the point is usually hafted and tied. So it just makes no sense. I have seen, I think it was Donnie and Devin talk about putting
00:07:16
Speaker
grooves into adolatil. I forgot he listens. He's currently screaming at me because I incorrectly sized a Colby point. Got to love Donna dust. But it was either Devin or Donnie or both of them. We're talking about putting grooves into the side of adolatil darts. I forget what the purpose of those were, but I don't want to talk out of, out of hand, but I believe down the side. Yeah. On both sides for that purpose then. Yeah.
00:07:44
Speaker
but they didn't say bloodletting. I think it was to make it like more flexible. Yeah. I don't see style or function. I'm afraid to text, to text either at this point.
00:07:59
Speaker
Let's just call him and put him on air and ask him. No, I'm talking about it. All right. He's probably busy filming something. Yeah. Busy, busy man. But like when it comes to style and function, I suppose when you look at ceramics in particular, like ceramic designs, those are like pretty much over 90% of the time going to be all about style.
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah. And like we could also get into the idea too that like different cord stamped versus like paddle stamped versus like circular designs on it can get into like a spiritual or like a religious different, a different function in that regard. But that's other stuff that doesn't fossilize that we can tell you there.
00:08:37
Speaker
Yeah. There's a really good argument that Ramsey and size pottery, which is a particular sort of onyota pottery production on the shoulders of pots is representative indicative of Raptor wings. It's a thing. Um, just to get a driver. Yes.
00:08:58
Speaker
Do the raptors have wings in 10 million? What is the movie called? No, 65 was the name of the movie. And no, among the many issues of the movie, none of them that I have to pick currently were about the dinosaurs. It was just the plot and the writing. The weirdest part of the movie was after years, like almost two decades of Jurassic Park, three decades of Jurassic Park being out, when everyone's like, Lake Cretaceous-era dinosaurs had feathers. There wasn't one feather to be seen in this Lake Cretaceous movie.
00:09:26
Speaker
And they had 30 years to figure that out. But no, they were like very just like chicken skin looking lizards. Okay. Was it better than the last Jurassic Park? No. No. I actually haven't seen the newest Jurassic parks because they looked like ass. It was, it was bad. It wasn't good. Zero out of 10 would not recommend. You're going to do my man Beatty Wong as a bad guy. Get out of here.
00:09:54
Speaker
And so why does this matter in the archeological record?
Understanding Human Behavior through Artifacts
00:09:56
Speaker
It mostly boils down to trying to understand human behavior and also like classification of like, well, what's the purpose of this human decision and the production of a material culture? And then archeologists will argue about it for a decade, sometimes vehemently. Yeah.
00:10:14
Speaker
Yeah. And I remember Donal Vision being brought up in in class. Donal Vision. I like that. Donal Vision. It's like if you're if you're too bogged down in this, I think it's Donal Vision. That might not be a kind thing to say to somebody that they have Donal Vision. And I'm saying this out loud, but I'd like you to elaborate. You know, who knows? Elaborate the the idea of the evolutionary archaeology of this. Like, is that the style evolves? Is that what it's trying to get at?
00:10:43
Speaker
I believe so. It's been a while. I haven't got into style versus function a hot minute just because like most of my research has been so based on
00:10:56
Speaker
radiocarbon and then also like settlement patterns. But actually that's a pretty good, pretty good segue in terms of like, with my work, how I see style versus function comes in house forms and settlement patterns, like the style of house, particularly on the Great Plains, like in Earth Lodge, which is a basically a manmade hobbit hole, I think is the best way I can describe it.
00:11:23
Speaker
Like you got a spherical amount of dirt inside is
00:11:27
Speaker
massive log beams, and there is a elongated entryway. And you find these in the Great Plains, particularly Nebraska, Kansas, South Dakota, Northern Oklahoma, and it's like the indicative Pawnee, Arikara, Wichita, Ponca, Omaha, Mandan, Hidatsa form of house. And that people that come later, like the Ponca's, Oto's, and Omaha's adopt earth lodges as they move into the plains from like the Pawnee and Arikara teach them.
00:11:55
Speaker
Turns out they're like tornado proof, which is a pretty good form of house to have in tornado alley. Yeah. Like the spherical shapes of the houses, like nothing's getting in there.
00:12:09
Speaker
I always wondered why TPs and things like that out on the plains are the shape they are, and I imagine that has to do with the wind once they're moved out there. So when people think TPs are perfectly conical, they're not actually like, and same thing with earth lodges, the entranceways to a lot of these houses, there's a religious component to it why they point the certain way they do. However, generally they're looking to the south, the entranceways to the southeast or to the east in general.
00:12:39
Speaker
The reason being is where does the cold wind come in from generally? The Northwest. Canada. You don't want your house to open up into the frigid Arctic air. TPs actually lean towards the Northwest generally. TPs have a slight bend in them, so the front poles actually are putting pressure onto the back poles.
00:13:02
Speaker
So as the wind's coming down, it's actually pushing into those poles that are at much more of an acute angle as opposed to the obtuse angles of the back poles. Okay. Yeah. Didn't know that.
00:13:19
Speaker
I think it's a reservoir that's in Centennial, Wyoming. A little town outside Laramie. There's a weird conical-shaped structure. It looked like a cement-made teepee. But when I first saw that, I was like, why is it shaped like that? Oh, the wind. Because I thought it was just easy to move poles and skins as a house somewhere, but yeah, it's got to be the wind. Otherwise, it would make way different houses, I would think.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah. And traditionally, like Pawnees and Ricker, I was like, all the tribes that did the biannual bison hunting, you'd have the one in the winter, you'd bring your teepees out. But one in the summer, Pawnees and Ricker had a summer house. So we went to bring the teepees out. There's really cool photos of it, but it's not even fully enclosed. It basically kind of looks like an ovular lean-to because you don't need to worry about the wind really
Housing Styles and Functionality in the Great Plains
00:14:08
Speaker
in the summertime. You just need to worry about the rain.
00:14:11
Speaker
So it's, it's not even fully enclosed, but it looks like, like when, when baby Yoda Grogu's little fucking pods open, that's what they kind of look like. Oh, cool. Cool. If that makes any sense. And I don't even know. Yeah, basically. And they just, but, and like, you don't need as in terms of like function, you know, a teepee is a shitload of bison hides as compared to as those summer
00:14:35
Speaker
tense, much less, right? So it was really only the horse nomads that show up in the 18th century along the Western plains. They're the full-time teepee people, right? Because they just need the one all year round.
00:14:51
Speaker
You can open that up and let it be breezy and stuff too. Right. Whereas like for the farmers on the Missouri River, the summer bison hunt, that's where you're really getting the most meat. So you can reduce your carrying capacity, like the initial carrying capacity of the teepees with just these like summer lodges, which are an eighth of the size and weight of a teepee. And you can go out, get more meat and bring it back to the, to the town.
00:15:17
Speaker
Okay. Well, that was an excellent example of style versus function. In the next segment, I'd like to get into some more, and I promise you guys, this will be some fun stuff to think about. And welcome back to episode 149 of Life Reference Podcast. I am here with David, and we are talking about style versus function archeology. So we're going to do a lightning round of sorts. I'm going to name David an object that can be in the archeological record or in contemporary society, and he's going to elaborate whether it's style versus function.
00:15:45
Speaker
Go to perchance.org and you can type in a randomizer for a random object. We can do this. Perchance.org. Okay. Okay. I like that. I just found that it might be a, you know, white supremacy website, but not yet. Xbox 360 controller. Okay. See, video game controllers are a perfect, perfect example of this because I loved the GameCube controller. It was ergonomic. It was perfectly made for playing Super Smash Brothers, for playing any kind of Zelda game.
00:16:12
Speaker
because you could map the buttons to do what you wanted to do. However, people complained that it hurt your hands after a while, but also it only had one analog stick. It didn't work too. You had the camera stick on the right. So Xbox and PlayStation were like, hold on, move over. Let's make two analog sticks. And like people moved on to that because you had a lot more first person shooter games that have people eating their left thumb and their right thumb doing the steering and the walking and things.
00:16:37
Speaker
Nintendo games didn't do that at the time, so that was the perfect game for their controller for that. But all that being said, even with a modern Xbox 360 controller or a PlayStation, what are they on, PlayStation 5 now? 6? Yeah, 5. I'll play those. Like you have controllers that look different. Like you could look at an Xbox controller and a PlayStation controller and be like, OK, these have a video game function. Like I know what these are.
00:17:01
Speaker
But like 4,000 years from now and someone digs that up, what are they going to think the differences were between a PlayStation and an Xbox controller? Like they're not going to understand that there were different corporations that made them. They might think of different factions of people. And again, I'm talking about this in the sense of like looking at it archaeologically because we, for the same reason, I could pick up a Clovis point made in Tennessee that's a little bit smaller.
Evolution of Video Game Controllers
00:17:24
Speaker
And a close point that's made in Wyoming and say, these are two different people that made these, but really it could be the same person or same group of people. Just somebody made one that was smaller and like they had less rock to work with. So it's like, how do we, how do we look at this? And like, would a PlayStation controller have more worth? Would it be worth barely? Is it cost more money than Xbox controller? I don't know. This is the style versus function. That's pretty cool.
00:17:49
Speaker
And I think looking at the history of console controllers, I think we have hit
00:17:57
Speaker
like nailed down the function. Because we've gone through like so many different iterations. Like you look into 10 to 64 versus a GameCube. Like that was a radical change to make it easier to play a game. And then the next step, and it basically just like kind of copied what the other two game systems were doing. Although like are you, I'm more fond of the Xbox controller than the PlayStation. Like I like having my movement stick
00:18:23
Speaker
top left rather than bottom left. For me, I think it's easier to hit that D-pad. I haven't had a PlayStation since high school. So yeah, I prefer Xbox controllers and they work better with PC games too. And the Nintendo Switch is two analog sticks, but their Pro controller is very similar to an Xbox controller, more so than a PlayStation.
00:18:45
Speaker
Cause I think at this point we're just at style. Like the function's been nailed down. You only have so many fingers for a normal. Only so many fingers. Like we've hit that pinnacle of design. Although like I do have like a pro controller for Xbox where it has buttons and toggles at the bottom. So yeah, I love that.
00:19:05
Speaker
but I only get super serious. Yeah. Yeah. And then that way I don't have to move my right thumb on my view stick. I can just use the fingers down below my middle ring finger down below. And that's style versus function. Cause I mean, it is function in a way, but yeah, I just, fuck, I could go on a whole thing about video game consoles to how they look and things like that. You can also use video game consoles as a marker for stratigraphy because they look so different.
00:19:32
Speaker
Same with phones. Like it's like, those are the always like my favorite, like trying to explain an archeological concept to students. It's like, you all know the differences in fucking phone technology at this point. And I'm thinking when you use game controllers next time, but I think phones are more encompassing to a broader audience.
00:19:49
Speaker
Phone, yeah, for sure. Because not everyone played a Wii or a Nintendo. But we're at the point now with iPhones, like there's such fucking difference. There's a little difference. Firmware-wise.
Transition of CDs: From Laser Discs to Portability
00:20:00
Speaker
Firmware? Yeah. Oh, sorry, I was going to say CD. What can you tell me about CDs? Yeah. Definitely, I think, function at that point. Yeah. Because there was like laser discs that were like massive.
00:20:13
Speaker
Yeah, those are huge. And at that point I think they were able to put more data onto a smaller disk that was more convenient to lug around than having, you know, basically the equivalent of a record.
00:20:27
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then you can put like the different the labels on them are vastly different to those of a function. How absolutely style. Yeah, definitely style. One hundred percent. I miss the days like being on the bus and everyone had those like packages of CD cases leather. Yeah. Everybody was just like on the bus, like trading CDs to listen to and everyone like scrambling when you got to school. I call music six and you're like, it's about five. You know, like the OG.
00:20:56
Speaker
They're like kids bought 50 something now. And it was just like, I remember what kids bought was radical. Like, do you want to listen to hot songs that don't have cuss words? Here's kids. Was it just kids singing it? I never had one. Yeah, I never bought one either. But I fondly remember the commercials on Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon. So how would someone look at the different, say, an NSYNC CD versus a Backstreet Boys CD? Oh, that's excellent. I still have.
00:21:23
Speaker
CDs from that time. And I used to absolutely love NSYNC back in the day. Loved it. I still have my, is it No Strings Attached CD? I believe that's what it was called. It had Bye Bye Bye on it. Yeah. I kind of want to listen to that now. Fuck, I want to get that on Spotify. Do they have NSYNC? And then of course Justin Timberlake went on and just crushing it. But I don't know. I mean, it was kind of the boy band,
00:21:53
Speaker
like copy and paste idea, right? During that time, like everyone was doing it. Like everyone, like there was that, there's that structure. And I think fifth harmony, which broke up a couple years ago, that same deals, like you get a group of people together that also contribute. Like K-pop is very big in this.
00:22:11
Speaker
Like there's always the bad boy, the nerd, like they carbon copies. I don't know if like an archeologist was to see an album cover. It's just style. There's no function. Yeah. Just how, how would we determine? I guess after the CDs being the exact same size and shape and then there's, it'd be like pottery stamps, you know, like there's different stampings on them. That would be, that would make the most sense. I don't know what a bagel bracelet is. Oh, bangle bracelet, coffee mug.
00:22:39
Speaker
a ceramic. Yeah. And there'd be, oh, there's so much style to that too. Just like a pottery. Okay. That's literally a ceramic. I'll move to the next thing. But yeah, but, but what makes a coffee mug different than other mugs is that it's meant to not burn your hands when you hold it. And it's specifically produced for containing very hot objects. So I would say function supersedes style on that. I mean, nowadays they all have fun shit on them and logos, but
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah, I love Mondays. I hate Mondays, whatever the classic mug says. Sir, this is a Wendy's. Sir, this is a Wendy's. Well, well, one, have you seen that Demi Lovato interview where they ask you what her favorite dish is? What does she say? It's like a viral vine, I think, which they're like, what's your favorite dish? She's like, um, I would say mugs. She's like, because you can put, you could hold hot beverage. They were asking like, oh, what? Oh, that's funny.
00:23:35
Speaker
Describe your favorite date, like May 28th or whatever. Yeah. That's funny as shit. Good for her. But I bring that up because she mentions like, you know, it's you, they don't burn your hand on them. There's a little handle. Sometimes the handles are more ergonomic than others. But again, all humans have the same five fingers. So like, I mean, I shouldn't say that not all humans do.
00:23:56
Speaker
That's that's the base template is five fingers. That's the vanilla model. Yeah, that's the version 1.0. Like there's only so many ways you can hold a mug and it has to shield your hands from being burned by the car. You know, so it's a different type of thing. A puddle. That's not an object cookie jar. These are all Masonic flashlight flashlight flashlight.
00:24:19
Speaker
Yeah. That's another one too. They're very, they all have at the end of it, the eye or the light comes out of for sure. But there's many ways to get there. Some of them are like S shaped. Some of them are L shaped. So don't laugh. Some of them are like, you got the police ones that like you can, you know,
00:24:36
Speaker
also bash in someone's head with it. But there's also tiny little ones that you get at the supermarket, the Energizer ones that are in your hand. Is there any part of the world with less light than others? Yes, Alaska. But at the end of the day, you're all seeing the same, what, five feet in front of you with a flashlight? Also, style versus function.
00:24:57
Speaker
I think function, I think function is probably with the flashlight, probably the most critical. Cause like even the descriptions of flashlights that you were just telling us about, like they all serve a different purpose. It's not necessarily for style. Like the small ones that you buy at the store, it's like something for your car versus the police one, which those are like heavy duty searchlights. Like I think how they're built is indicative of their purpose. That's like the children's one that have like Scooby-Doo and shit on the side of them. That's probably more style. Yeah. Remember having like one of the kids ones that
00:25:26
Speaker
You could rotate the lens or something. You know what I'm talking about? I think it was yellow, like it was a yellow flashlight. It was this fucking, looked like a boom box. And then it had like a red filter and then a blue filter. Like it was just this film. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, it was like a toy. Yeah.
00:25:46
Speaker
Yeah. Fucking poor memory unlocked. It's funny you mentioned Scooby-Doo though, cause in the class where we talked about this, it was Band-Aids and like do Flintstones or Rugrats or Scooby-Doo Band-Aid brand bandages.
00:26:03
Speaker
have more healing power function versus others. And like, obviously, medically, no. But if a child would be more likely to keep the Scooby-Doo one on because it doesn't, you know, it's cool looking, it's going to heal better. So, like, it's other things like this we got to think about, too, with ceramics and projectile points. Like, yeah, that one's dinky and shitty, but like, maybe a person thought it had good karma on it for like hunting or something. You know, it's like it's like a deep point.
00:26:32
Speaker
A teen boy. Yeah. Like two years ago. Was it two years ago? We talked about that recently. That's two years ago. Dean first came out a long time ago. I need to make an AI generated Ralph Wiggum as a caveman. Dean. That's our new logo.
00:26:51
Speaker
Those berries taste like burning. Grandma tells me to burn things. There's a lot of content where things I hang out with grandma. That was the thing. But yes, so you got to think about that stuff when you're categorizing artifacts, because like it's all there. It's stuff we're never going to know, like how what the function is or like why the Scooby Doo Band-Aid would be more prized to children than the other ones. Obviously, it is.
00:27:13
Speaker
a cute character on the front of it. But it's something that we can't figure out. But at the same time, processional archaeology is just like, okay, these ones are decorated, these ones aren't. We'll deal with that later. Separate them to decorated versus undecorated, which is what I did at curation for four years. And like, you can figure out the stuff later.
00:27:32
Speaker
I don't know. It's endless stuff you can think about with this topic. Yeah. I think when I think of like band-aids, different types, what easily comes to mind part of this debate are like Valentine's Day cards. Did you used to do those in elementary school? Like Valentine's Day, everyone would give you like run around the classroom and put Valentines in each other's bags. Girls didn't like me, dude. I wasn't that kind of kid.
00:27:54
Speaker
But did that experience occur? Like, was that activity allowed regardless if you received Valentine's or not? I don't think I ever received a Valentine from like a real one, but we did like the class, like fill out art cards and cut them out. Yeah. But like people. Yeah. Because I think I remember like trying to get like the coolest Valentine's. Like it was always like kind of like who had the best Valentine's. And if you had one that if you and someone else had the same Valentine's, that was kind of lame.
00:28:19
Speaker
The same Valentine's. Like the same type. Like if I got Batman Valentine's and you have the same brand. The stationary. The stationary. Yeah. The stationary of the Valentine's. Gotcha. I thought you had just like a Valentine's present. No, no, no. I mean like purely, purely style. Very little function other than capitalism.
00:28:38
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. How about a ring? Like jewel ring? Styler function? How many rings? Three rings? Seven rings? One ring? Eight rings? One ring? Eight rings? Okay. To rule them all. I mean, if it's been alert, they definitely have functions. If it's... Careful now, we don't want to upset Arceo due today and we don't want to overstep Mount Ridge. He's the man, dude. He's a good kid.
00:29:02
Speaker
I felt so insulted on Discord before. It's okay, Doc. Rigs. Yeah. So I still struggle finding which hand, and this is what you guys, anyone listening who's younger than 18, once you get to 22, when everyone starts getting married around you, you really have to learn like, okay,
00:29:23
Speaker
who has a ring on their finger and who doesn't. It's something you start looking at. And maybe that was just me. But I also still to this day can never remember what hand it is. And then I'm dyslexic. So when I look at somebody, I'm like, that's definitely their left hand. But then I like have to raise my left hand and be like, well, that's my left. So that's their right. And then the conversation is left at this point. Point being, rings signify that you're married or engaged or not, but you change the finger. And like, it's all the culture with that. And I'm like, are they married or not? I don't know.
00:29:53
Speaker
I think there's a lot. I think like, yes, wedding rings are function. Other rings like the one that I have on my hand, I think that's it's a little bit of style, but also like there's a very like I wear turquoise and I think there's a function to that when it's a very like Southwest oriented style of jewelry that's often associated with indigenous folks or like Maya's pretend Cowboys style. Yeah. I see it also as like a function of identity display, I guess.
00:30:23
Speaker
And your identity as a single person versus a married person? No, for like, well, the turquoise southwestern ring is like as indigenous. And then I wear a lot of turquoise generally, but yeah, with the wedding ring, that's like a function. You had a frat ring one time too, didn't you? No, I've always had turquoise. My frat sweatshirt.
00:30:44
Speaker
somebody I know wears a ring, class ring or something. I never got a class ring in high school, but I don't know. I like my fraternity, but not like that much. Fair enough. That's, that's like, if I want to rep letters, I'll rep letters or like, like most of my frat t-shirts now are just sleepwear. That's their function. They used to be identity display back on campus. Now they're just purely for, this is an extra t-shirt. Yeah. We gotcha.
00:31:10
Speaker
Well, I guess with ring and especially turquoise, too, like we would see, yeah, turquoise jewelry very much concentrates to the southwest.
Cultural Significance of Rings
00:31:19
Speaker
Is there turquoise mines there to make those gems? I'm actually not sure entirely, but there's a culture there that obviously in that area use them just like Cumberland points were here in Tennessee. But rings, too, like if you dig up an old ring from, let's say, a piece of shell that was tied to an organic ring somebody made in Pleistocene Europe.
00:31:39
Speaker
like you're gonna pull that up you have no idea what the marriage ceremonies were whether that meant like married or single or that meant like war captive you don't know like what that ring meant right so it's like you gotta ask yourself all these things but like it's just funny to me as an archaeologist we'll put it away as
00:31:59
Speaker
Ring and like people might think that's super reductionist, but it has to be because how else you can classify it I can't say if this is a marriage ring versus a I never know shaman's ring Wedding rings become a thing. Um, I'm gonna look it up now That's one of those things that I feel like when you look it up, you're gonna be bummed like most things about marriage
00:32:20
Speaker
or women in the past in general, uh, your eyes are lighting up. I'm scared to date back as far as the Roman era, but did not come into common use until the 1700s and then only among the upper class. Well, that makes sense. Diamond engagement rings first spike in popularity during the mid 18th century after Brazil emerged as a major diamond source, making them more readily available. Hmm.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah, but world war two is a big turning point for engagement rings, but also wedding bands because all the castles. World war two is also responsible for establishing the tradition of men's wedding bands. So basically it's as a reminder of their wives back home. Gotcha. I don't know. Wedding rings stress me the fuck out. They do. Next segment. Yeah.
00:33:00
Speaker
And we're back to episode one 49 left from his podcast. We're still talking about style versus function. I really have the song stuck in my head and I need to play it for you all because like a student shared this song with me and it is forever scarring my brain. David, let me know if you've, if you've heard this before.
00:33:26
Speaker
Human beings fascinate me, being just the way they are. Tell me, little pony, can you push a cart or drive a car? Liar is my instrument, but humans strum their sweet guitar. It's a mystery. Anthropology, fingers, toes, and tiny noses. Brownish hair and tennis skin.
00:33:59
Speaker
I hate it. Anyways, please turn it off.
00:34:13
Speaker
It just, it just, and that's not even the pinnacle. It just keeps going. It just keeps going up. Oh, wow. I had a good, good object here on the randomizer, but I forgot what it was. Ranch came to mind, but we don't know what wrenches. Function. House, rope, ice pick, pair of water goggles, dolphin. Not, not an object. Acorn, tree, bottle, rabbit.
00:34:35
Speaker
child handheld game system, fishing child is not an object. The things I got to offer them umbrella, umbrella's function. I mean, that's the hard part. Like a lot of these tools in general, they have a function. Well, that's the thing. So do by faces, but what's the function?
00:34:53
Speaker
Like, was it going to be a point? Was it going to be a knife? I don't know. Well, it's also blanks. Like, yeah. Yeah. But what's the difference between like, I don't know, like differences between objects always kind of boiled down to style. I guess that's the whole point. Xbox game or Xbox, Nintendo Pro and PlayStation controllers, that's all style, but they serve the same function.
00:35:19
Speaker
Well, I guess you could say a pro controller because the Switch controller, like the Joy-Cons are perfectly made so that you can play it handheld and like they could play the games with them. But like some people prefer the function of a pro controller to the style of it, I guess, because I think the style of the Joy-Cons looks cool. Just can I game with them? Not really. I don't know. What do your students say about this stuff?
00:35:45
Speaker
Well, I'm actually doing a demo tomorrow. So recording this the 19th and tomorrow I'm doing actually like a whole workshop for this religious studies thing.
00:35:54
Speaker
And like the whole purpose, like I'm actually bringing in like most of my dishware. I'm going to have them categorize these objects based on form. And at the end it's going to be, I'll basically show them how I as a person, the emic perspective actually would categorize the glassware. Like some of them I use for decoration, you know, even though they might be a beer mug, but like the big ones that I have, it's like my fraternity glassware. I keep that on a, on a shelf. I don't actually use that type of stuff. What does emic mean again?
00:36:23
Speaker
there's the emic and edic perspective. And emic, the way that I think about it, like emic, the M in it means me and the edic. In Spanish, there's the two form, which means you. And that's how I remember it. So the emic perspective is my personal inherent experience. Whereas the edic experience is someone else's perspective or worldview.
00:36:45
Speaker
And it's like in culture. So like Emick's like my culture, Edith is someone else's culture. So trying to challenge them in that way. Fishing hook. That one like obviously has its own. I think that's like 100% function.
00:37:01
Speaker
Yeah, there's very little style. But people don't get like, oh, that's a pretty fishing hook. It's like, no, you need to catch a fish. Like you can have a different metal, I guess, but that still goes into function. But yeah, you're right. That is something that's like pretty unanimously like a fish hook because it physically does exactly what it it is. Yeah. So that's something on the record, too. I wonder how much stuff we can identify as a straight up fish hook. But fish hooks are usually organic back then. They're pretty like the concept of a fish hook has been around for a long time.
00:37:30
Speaker
That's how you catch fish. There's fish hooks that go back to Neanderthals, I believe, in Spain slash Portugal. They're pretty industrious over there.
00:37:42
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, people have been there for a long time. I would really wish there was more archaeological work being done in Africa. I mean, yeah, it'd be great. So many questions would be answered. But like what, the mid part, like the more equatorial Africa you get, like the more jungle harder it is to excavate with that highly acidic soil, which affects harder preservation. Yeah. I'd love to work in Africa at some point.
00:38:06
Speaker
I was wondering where you were going with this versus style and function. I was like, I don't know. I just added up. That's like the basic, like the, like the further back you go in time, like when we talk about Australopithecines homo erectus, that's function. There is very little in the way of style. I believe like that's like using hand axes and stuff, hand act like this is function. Yeah. Like a lot of our earliest components. I think that's true of any industry and human material culture. Like the first iterations are purely function.
00:38:37
Speaker
style comes later, especially in the capitalist markets. I think like now we're in the pinnacle of style of our modern human culture. Yeah. Well, I guess with iPhones too, like the software and what they're capable of doing can always change in function. Yeah. Cause like now iPhones all look the fucking same. Yeah. Like I didn't even realize there was four teens. Now my phone looks exactly like the new ones, but it's not new at all. Yeah. Human culture is pretty fun that way.
00:39:06
Speaker
Although a good one, that's actually kind of fun. Have you ever, you've seen the dictator, right?
00:39:11
Speaker
The pointy. It was a point. You see Elon Musk talking about that. That's exactly where I was going for it. He ordered them to create that rocket because of that fucking movie. It's like Jesus Christ. Yeah. Some guy probably spent like years like his whole thesis in graduate school and engineering about how to like make the perfect nozzle for a rocket. And Elon Musk was like, no, I would like it to be pointy.
00:39:41
Speaker
I think he did talk like that is slightly less inefficient, but like negligibly, like extraordinarily negligibly less efficient. It does nothing. Yeah. But yeah, no, that's, that's purely, you know, style. The dictator was saying he likes it cause in Looney Tunes, when the rocket hits something, it sticks and goes, I saw a documentary. It's like, Oh, did this documentary have a duck? When it blows up, his bill goes behind the set. It's Rafi. Yeah.
00:40:08
Speaker
I am certain you are watching cartoons. God, I love Sasha Baron Cohen. Yeah, he's a gem. Carlton, does any of this matter? I don't know, dude. At the end of the day, it's made up and the points don't matter. If it's not really helping us understand human behavior, who gives a shit? People get really upset over these things and it's like, okay, a fishing hook's a fishing hook. This is a projectile point.
00:40:36
Speaker
Does the minutiae over, because it's impossible for us to go back in time and like, is this personal preference or have they identified something with this unique way to notch or flute a projectile point that's going to make this more efficient? Because at the end of the day, these material cultures continue to change, unless they're fish hooks. That is clearly, we've reached the pinnacle of that.
00:40:57
Speaker
Yeah. But like, does it really matter? Like when it comes to projectile points, especially in the paleoindian archaic record, there's very little that we can tell in terms of differences between populations. And that's why we consider them like cultures, even though it's like, are they really cultures? We don't really know. But at least with Clovis and Folsom, it's not until really the archaic, right? Where there are geographic boundaries of projectile point
00:41:23
Speaker
types to what time it's like in the archaic that's when we start seeing differences really regionally between types well like paleoindian is pretty regionally distinct too but they're all paleoindian lancelet points pretty much i mean but what i mean is like there's closest points from maine to mexico same with fulsome and then
00:41:42
Speaker
After Clovis, it starts to become a little bit re-utilized. True, distinct, what am I looking at? This is definitely from early archaic Tennessee versus late archaic Nevada. Very different. Then in the Great Plains, there's a lot of diversity and then really
00:42:03
Speaker
from like the 11 to 1600s, you get plain side notch points from Alberta down to Southern Texas. It's like, that's it. I guess that's like, we hit it. That is the function. And like Lakota's, Pawnee's, Wichita's, Tonka was to Cree's, like everyone was using the same thing because it's just a little arrowhead and they are arrowheads at this point and they're side notched. Boom. We did it. We did it. We did it. We got, we got to the, we got to the form that just, that works the best.
00:42:32
Speaker
Is side notching easier than corner notching? Yeah, I would say so. At least I just haven't tried side notching, or it's corner notching. But the fact that I'd never tried it, I guess, just always led me to think side notching was easier in my hands. Or I'm just used to seeing side notched. I don't know. I don't know why. I really wish I was a better napper when it comes to stone tools. I'm a hell of a sleeper.
00:42:57
Speaker
Donny, I know you're listening, so just shoot me a text when you hear this and you're like, here's an answer. You're not Southern. I don't know why I gave you a Southern accent there, but either way, what's up, dog? Can you make a hand axe? Yeah, I can make a hand axe. I had somewhere to go with this. I have no idea.
00:43:16
Speaker
Oh the bow and arrow like the bow and arrow I was thinking this the other day too like because I've been reading a lot about like age of exploration and stuff like when the Spanish guy they had like pikes and like blunder like blunder but like their guns weren't like super
00:43:32
Speaker
the way we would think they are now. Obviously they were, they had muskets and stuff, but I think they had archivists. Archivists? I remember that from Assassin's Creed 3. Yeah, they're like super inaccurate and they're the ones that have like the rope for the fuse.
00:43:47
Speaker
I remember those. Yes. No, it's not a flip lock. It's archivist. Yeah. Flintlocks have the Flint. The archivists have the burning rope from like Pocahontas. Right. Okay. Those things. I know they had that in like the Reconquista in Spain, but yeah, they, I mean, it's 1492. They brought the same support point being, I don't think they were using bows at that point. They were using crossbows in some ways, but by,
00:44:15
Speaker
segue with this was bows are probably 70,000 years old, if not a little 50,000 10,000 years old.
Ancient Bow Technology
00:44:22
Speaker
But like, boy being a technology that was used for a very long time. And like up until like, like when the Spanish Spanish got here, they would have been like, Oh, these are bows and arrows. It wasn't like a foreign primitive technology, like
00:44:35
Speaker
an atlatl is, you know, but still, it's like that's something that's been perfected. You spring something and launch it a direction and like a catapult works the same way. Think of something every day that works with the spring. I mean, but there is there is difference in some of the styles like and we've been trying to figure this out because like the Pawnee used gullwing bows, which look like a bow that's backwards. So rather than like a recurve or the bow, the bend in the bow is facing towards the archer that's facing the opposite direction.
00:45:05
Speaker
Now what does that do? It does make it like easier to draw the bow. I think Donnie yell at me if I'm wrong, but there's only so far you can bend it. Like it has a maximum bend, whereas like a recurve, you can keep pulling on that puppy. We think it's just kind of like you can pull it back. And once you really hit that resistance, you know, it's time to let go. Like you've hit its maximum draw. Like it's a, it's a much easier indicator. Hmm.
00:45:29
Speaker
but that's very particular to the Pawnee and other people were using different styles of bow. Like the Comanche's, especially on horseback, the Comanche Warbow, really tiny. It's really zippy when you fire it. Like it's, it's a small bow when you fire, but that, that arrow fucking, it's gone. Like a Mongolian bow. Yeah. Well, Mongolian balls are like, you've, have you like seen, I know you've seen them. Those things are massive. No, the Mongolian warbows.
00:45:55
Speaker
Those things are massive. A horse archer bows are way smaller than I thought they'd be. No, but the Mongolian ones, once those were strung up, they were not unstrung for years. They had a special person. The draw weight on a Mongolian bow is fucking crazy. Under the cons, a bow maker would be put to death if his bow broke.
00:46:20
Speaker
I mean, I would ask if that was real, but like a lot of the shit he said did, I was like, is that real? I've seen some of demoness, they're gorgeous and actually are very pretty. Like not only are they functionally like, like imagine that like modern day bows, you unstring them after you were done with them.
00:46:36
Speaker
They kept their strong for fucking years and they didn't lose tension and they pierced armor. Yeah. And I was thinking it's because they're not long, like a long bow, but they're smaller, but they have curves in them. Let's give it the power. I guess that's what I was trying to know. I got the other short bow.
00:46:52
Speaker
Not a small bow. Mongolian war bow. But they're not like, you know, Legend of Zelda, tiny little, I believe it's the fairy fairy bow or the. Holy shit. Yeah. So that's the English longbow. The Mongolian bow had a draw weight up to 150 pounds.
00:47:08
Speaker
I'd have the Mongolian bowl. That is crazy. Like that. Their curve, 150 pound, 150 pound draw weight. That's a fucking lot to kill an elk. You need like anywhere between above 35. Like you need basically 40 to 50, 150 pounds. That's you are basically doing a fucking. Yeah. A lot poll of 150 with one arm. Like that's a lot of weight.
00:47:39
Speaker
Well, we've discussed style versus functions today, Carlton.
Connor's Recurring Back Injury
00:47:43
Speaker
We have, David. I think this was beneficial to our audience. I think so too. Connor's broken as I'm trying to get this pen cat back in. I too am broken.
00:47:53
Speaker
We're a mess. Carlton's broken physically and spiritually. So we're just. What happened to his back this time? Is it from the car wreck on the highway of death from a couple of years ago? That didn't help it. But he he hurt his back, I believe working out a few years ago and he had to get surgery for it. And like now he like he has re-hurt the same thing. And the moral of the story is like Connor wakes up at five a.m. every day to work out.
00:48:22
Speaker
and he's a very fit person, but like, can I have an interview? I need to get back into it. Like I was going five, six times a week. Now I've shrunk back to three weeks, three days a week. I'm just not having a good time sleeping. Like I'm not, I can actually, I'm starting to see the veins in my shoulders now, which I was very proud about. There was, we're starting to pop. Good way to be vascular. I'm trying. It's like, I got, I got beefy arms. I feel like Robert Baratheon.
00:48:53
Speaker
God bless Bessie and tits. Wow. Okay. Wow. Wow.
00:49:02
Speaker
OK, God, I love me too. I wasn't going to quote that on our phone. Who gives a shit? We've said much first. It's a quote. It's a quote. That's what he says. Oh, the Dothraki. Anyway, guys, we're keeping it together. I'm still I don't know if I've updated
Hosts' Personal Health Challenges
00:49:25
Speaker
you guys. The doctors have no idea what is wrong with me. They're just like your hands.
00:49:29
Speaker
will work when they, you know, they might not, not you're good. Yeah. It turns out I don't have ADHD. I have severe anxiety.
00:49:39
Speaker
Well, yeah, they misdiagnosed at first and like no one told me in my family, like, does your family have a history of anxiety? I was like, I don't think so. But then I like go back home and I went telling people what happened. Like, Oh, all of everyone on your dad's side of the family, like your dad suffered from panic attacks. We're all in anxiety meds. I'm like, wait a minute. And I wonder if that's, if that's historic or generational trauma. It's only the Indians that have it.
00:50:02
Speaker
leading research on anxiety is that an ADHD, you can have genetic predispositions to it, but it's extra, what do you call it? Epigenetic, like factors that cause it. Yeah. Yeah. Environmental factors. There you go. Like things like that can like trigger it in you. Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:23
Speaker
anxious people hoping to get a medication because fuck does this shit suck. This episode took a dark turn. This got bad. We're guys, we're, we're here. We're getting your content. Carlton's recording is on episode here in a minute. Uh, last week, uh, when you're hearing this, you will have heard me talk to Vinnie air duster in my water. That's great.
00:50:44
Speaker
Can I start eating wings? Can we play Sea of Thieves and eat wings? Follow rate review of the podcast. Please keep listening to us. If you want to be a host on the podcast, please let us know. We need help. The other context is Carlton just drove across the country and back the other day and he's like trying to be a functional person. I haven't had a thought since November. Nine and a half hours of not getting assaulted by emails. I wish I could drive all the time.
00:51:12
Speaker
I'll drive your bus, David. I'll drive you wherever you want. Just keep the phone away from me. All right. I'll be a bus person. I'll change my idea from a C person to a bus person. I say live and die by the bus, David. Live and die by the bus. All right. Till next time. Bye.
00:51:37
Speaker
Thanks for listening to a life in ruins podcast. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at a life in ruins podcast. And you can also email us at a life in ruins podcast at gmail.com. And remember, make sure to bring your archaeologists in from the cold and feed them beer.
00:52:05
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Culturo Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Chris Webster. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.