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Ep. 42: "How To" Run For Office (from two working parents)
50 Plays4 days ago
This week, Mission: Texas sits down with two working parents who decided the "someone else will run" strategy wasn't working anymore. Katie O'Brien Duzan is taking on HD-94 in Tarrant County, and Zach Herbert — a Marine Corps veteran and trial attorney — is running for HD-112 in the Dallas area. Both are in highly competitive state house districts that have a likelihood of flipping.
Both candidates talk through their "flux capacitor moment" of deciding to run, the steep learning curve of campaign finance and call time, and how they're building family-friendly campaigns that bring their own kids into the process. They dig into fundraising disparities against well-funded incumbents, the value of door-knocking over ad spend, and why authenticity beats political polish every time.
Plus: our new Good News segment covers gym gains, a Tonal million-pound milestone, a birthday, and a half-marathon commitment in the works.
What we cover:
- Katie's and Zach's origin stories — stepping up when no one else had filed
- Building a campaign from scratch: checklists, core teams, and campaign schools
- The brutal reality of fundraising against opponents backed by PACs and billionaires
- Call time, Oath.vote, and rethinking how campaigns reach small donors
- Why door-knocking beats mailers and TV ads for reaching moderate voters
- Making campaigns family-friendly — kid-friendly kickoffs, "Scoops with Zach," and block walking with your kids
- Balancing a day job, a campaign, and parenting without losing yourself
- Advice for anyone who wants to get involved but doesn't know where to start
Follow and support Katie and Zach:
https://www.katiefor94.com/
https://zach4texas.com/
Love what we're doing? Become a member at patreon.com/missiontexaspodcast — just a few dollars a month keeps independent Texas media alive. And if you can't spare the cash, a five-star review goes just as far. God bless Texas. 🤠
#MissionTexas #TexasPolitics #FlipTexas #TexasDemocrats #HD94 #HD112 #TarrantCounty #DallasCounty #WorkingParents #VeteransInPolitics #RunForOffice #HowToRunForOffice #GrassrootsCampaign #TexasHouse #BlockWalking #TexasLegislature2026
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Transcript
Episode Introduction
00:00:07
Speaker
This is Mission Texas.
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome back to Mission Texas.
Challenges of Political Representation
00:00:13
Speaker
You might be tired of seeing people who are either rich or old enough to be our grandparents becoming elected officials. And I believe part of flipping the state is electing people who know what it's like for working people in this state. But can someone who has a full-time job and kids really run for office? This week,
Meet the Candidates: Katie and Zach
00:00:30
Speaker
we've got not one, but two people who are going to help us answer that question. And they have a real good shot at winning and flipping their seats. Welcome to the podcast. katie O'Brien Dusen running out there in Tarrant County. Zach Herbert, a veteran running for state house in the Dallas area. Welcome.
Deciding to Run for Office
00:00:45
Speaker
Thank you. You guys are both obviously working parents and have decided to step up and do the crazy thing and running for state house position that you're trying to not maintain, but actually flip the seat.
00:00:57
Speaker
And what we like to do at the very beginning is to go back in time. And I want to, I want you guys to help us picture the moment. where you decided to run for office and why we love a pop culture reference so think of this like a flux capacitor moment in back to the future you know you're doc brown you got hit on the head eureka i gotta run for office like what is that for each of you and maybe we can start with ladies first okay i was gonna do the wayne's world that yeah do Yeah, so for me, the moment there there was a run up to thinking about it when I saw that nobody had filed that it was getting late in the cycle.
Importance of Ballot Presence and Education
00:01:38
Speaker
And so I asked a lot of people, you know, everyone said, oh, we need a great candidate. We need a great candidate.
00:01:44
Speaker
And so i I talked to a lot of people and I said, define for me what you think of as a great candidate. And I looked at that and was like, actually, it's a lot of the similar things. So the thing, though, that really that moment when I decided I was talking to a very good friend of mine who was a local precinct chair, and she confirmed again, and she said, Katie, nobody has filed.
00:02:08
Speaker
And I said, there's no way. There is no way that we are going to just let this seat go. Like our community and our kids deserve better. And then she said the words to me,
00:02:20
Speaker
Katie, I would be so proud to have you represent my family. And there's something about hearing that where I was like, done. It's me. we're We're here. Yeah. So that was that was the moment, but I definitely did some due diligence before that. No, I was just curious, like when during the filing cycle?
00:02:39
Speaker
That was like early October, something like that. Late September, early October is when I, yeah, filed. I was just going to say that was very evocative of the, you know, we are the ones we've been waiting for line from the Obama years.
00:02:54
Speaker
And also kind of reminded me of our episode with Zach Dunn. Yeah. how is no one How has no one signed up for this yet? Yeah. Like this is such an important seat and it's such an important moment.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, somebody has to, and
Zach's Political Motivation
00:03:08
Speaker
I'll be that someone. Well, you know, when i when I was in Sherman Austin College. Oh, man. I didn't even have to say anything. I was going to be like, oh, Obama, didn't you get started in the Obama campaign? No, no, no. So this is after that.
00:03:20
Speaker
Oh, okay. All right. I was so mad. It was after the legislative session where they had cut just, I think it was billions of dollars from public education. Our state representative at the time, Larry Phillips, was going to go on unopposed.
00:03:35
Speaker
i was like, how is this possible? Like, how is there no one to run against this guy when they've cut billions of dollars from the Texas public education? And if it wasn't for the fact that my wife and i were about to leave for Teach for America, would have ran that year.
00:03:50
Speaker
I was told that that was a bad idea because of what I just said. And so what I did was I convinced an Austin College student to run for state representative that year, just so there would be someone on the ballot.
00:04:03
Speaker
And it was a very scrappy campaign. and Obviously, we lost very badly. But my point is, you can't leave a spot on the ballot completely uncontested like that because these things matter. Yeah. yeah great Well, I think it's also interesting, Katie, because we keep talking about how every seat has been filled to run. And it sounds to me like you were the one that stepped up. like You didn't have to be really asked by the party. They didn't need to recruit someone. they You were like, it's me. like I'm i'm good Yeah, nobody recruited me. I mean, I guess you could say a couple of folks in the community, you know, talked to me like I told you my friend. But no, I mean, it was it was definitely a moment of somebody needs to run. Nobody has. This is too important.
00:04:50
Speaker
Our kids deserve fully funded public education. Our communities deserve better. And I'm going to go fight for that.
Campaign Challenges and Community Support
00:04:57
Speaker
Yeah. right, Zach, what's your Doc Brown moment?
00:05:02
Speaker
Well, ah you mentioned Zach Dunn, who spells his name wrong. just listened to that podcast, and I don't think I'm going to have as much energy as that guy had in his podcast. So much energy. I've got to.
00:05:15
Speaker
Make my eyes really wide or something. I'm going to wake up to be as as energetic as Zach Dunn. But anyway, no, i had been i had been thinking in the back of my mind, like even joking about running in this district for a while. We've lived here since 2013.
00:05:32
Speaker
ah And Angie Chin Button is my incumbent. She wins every election. We got within 200 votes of winning or flipping the seat in 2018 before the gerrymander happened in 2020.
00:05:45
Speaker
And every candidate that we put up after that got a little bit closer, a little bit closer. And every time Angie Chin Button won, would joke to my wife and say, i think I could beat her.
00:05:56
Speaker
And she would roll her eyes at me and say, we are never getting into politics, she says. And, you know, it's it's funny to me, too, because I'm a trial attorney. i'm I'm a Marine Corps veteran. I've got a huge ego. Right. So, of course, I think I can just do anything that I want to do.
00:06:13
Speaker
And that's my wife. Right. She's she's like, no, listen, that's a bad idea. Don't do it. And I usually listen to her and things have worked out really well because of that.
00:06:24
Speaker
But as time progressed and the climate got worse and worse and we just felt as though we were screaming into the void, my wife Jennifer and I, would would we helped with our campaigns. We protested, posted on our social media, but felt like we were still not, you know we're putting the signs up. We were more and more bold.
Fundraising Techniques and Campaign Schools
00:06:46
Speaker
We felt as though when we first moved here, we were a lot less bold than we are now. Like we would kind of hide our democraticness. you know, in Texas, because my neighbor had a Trump sign out front whenever I moved into my house and I put my Biden sign out. You know, that was my big, bold move back then. But we were actually approached by Jenny Laughlin, who is the president of the Richardson area Democrats here in my local Democrat group, mostly because of my wife, because my wife was very vocal online about politics just in general.
00:07:23
Speaker
And did, we decided to run very quickly after that. She met us at a Starbucks. She said, would you, would one of you guys be interested? And Jennifer said she won the coin toss. So I had to run, but we didn't think about it for very long. We probably 24 hours and were like, this is right. This is good. This is what we need to do.
00:07:44
Speaker
We're situated just perfectly in our life to be able to, to take this on. um and so, yeah, that was it at a Starbucks in, uh, in Shiloh and Arapahoe Road in Garland, Texas. That's where the magic's happening. I love that Jenny's the one that recruited you. She's really good at convincing people to do things. And i think that's like her superpower yeah for those listening outside of Dallas. She's the president of Richardson area of Dems and called Rad. They are one of the best groups in the area that just really active. She's very involved and we're just so grateful to have them. And I have seen you there at events. We had that Venezuela panel, which Zach, like it just feels very cute that it like we had that panel back in February and look at like everything that has happened since like we thought like invading Venezuela was the worst thing that could happen. And now like where have we come?
00:08:38
Speaker
ah On the bright side, i mean how many times have we won the war in Iran? So many times. So many times. Yeah. But I have a question next because i I obviously had a eureka moment as well. Like I got to run for office. And then like I didn't have power, didn't have money, I didn't have name ID, and I had no idea what to do Like I ice kind of had an idea that I had to file at some point to officially get on the ballot, but I wasn't sure what else to do. So what was your next thing that you did? Like did you Google how to run for office?
00:09:11
Speaker
No, I i did, ah yeah, ask ChatGBT, like what what should I do? yeah What I did was I just, I started calling people and I had a note. I probably can still still have it on my phone. It's got at least a hundred names on it ah that i that I just went through like a checklist.
00:09:29
Speaker
I would call somebody and and talk to them about it. And then they would inevitably say, you should talk to and give me a few more names. Or I'd ask them, is there any more names I should talk to? And I ended up talking to literally everybody in North Texas that has their hand in politics, right?
Engaging Communities and Personal Stories
00:09:46
Speaker
Either elected officials, people that are, you know, representatives adjacent to my district, every single person that ever ran for this seat that I could find. I talked to all of them were had coffee with them.
00:09:58
Speaker
And by the time I was done with that list, everybody knew that I was going to run. i hadn't officially announced yet, but everybody knew that I was going to run. And everybody that thought there was somebody else that was thinking about it, I had met with them to see if they were really serious about it because I didn't want a primary opponent. This seat that I live in, I'm too invested in this district. I i want it. I want us to win this district. So I i met everybody that was thinking about running. Because I was going to either tell them, hey, you go ahead and do it. Or I was going to just intimidate them and say, I'm no i'm just kidding. Put them in the eye. Give them a marine stare. It was more of team effort thing. Every time I got done with coffee with somebody, they were like, I'm not going to run. You run.
00:10:38
Speaker
I'm like, okay. Honestly, I was thinking you would say that you were going to do it. But i know we we needed a strong candidate. I really, really want to flip this seat. And so oh i was the I was the one to do it, apparently.
00:10:53
Speaker
Here we are. Katie, what'd you do? Yeah. So for me, by the time I decided I was all in, like I don't half-ass anything. Like once I am in, I am in and let's go. So I had a couple of people, you know, close friends who had done this before that I leaned on and they were like my core team, right? was like, okay. What's the form? Help me. Which checkboxes do I have to fill out? Because it's actually very hard um to know you know which things to do when and in what order.
00:11:19
Speaker
And then, like Zach was saying, that expanded group. So I also talked to a lot of folks. I had volunteered for the ah prior candidate in this seat. So obviously met with her.
00:11:30
Speaker
So talked to a lot of people, took a lot of notes, had a lot of to-do lists. um But I think it was really valuable to just also have
Community Events and Voter Engagement
00:11:37
Speaker
that that core team that I could call and talk to every day to just make sure that I was doing that that process ah you know in the right order.
00:11:47
Speaker
No, I can appreciate that. And I just admire both of y'all um for for stepping up. And i I think it's so fitting too. I was just listening to Alberto Ramos, who's the CEO of Veterans for All Voters. And he was talking about how in civic life in general, military families like yours are stepping up when society as a whole feels like it's kind of fallen apart and our ties that bind are becoming looser.
00:12:14
Speaker
You know, it's it's military families who are running for office at higher rates. mean, Katie, you're you're an air you're your husband's an air force veteran. Zach, obviously, you're a Marine Corps veteran yourself. Kate, you you ran, right? It's only a matter time before I push you into another race.
00:12:31
Speaker
And it's not just running for office. It's you know coaching the little league baseball teams. It's stepping up and volunteering at your local church or temple, synagogue, you know mosque, whatever.
00:12:43
Speaker
And i think it's so important that We continue to have people like that who step up and and show the way out of the wilderness because
00:12:55
Speaker
can't believe it's been 10 years. Well, really more than that since Trump came down the golden escalator and has kind of poisoned our politics. Like it's not just a debate of ideas anymore. It's, it feels like blood sport. And i think we're all just kind of tired of that.
00:13:12
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think that's interesting for you to bring that up because Alberto was part of New Politics, which was a group that I was a part of. And one of the things that I always recommend a candidate to do, and I don't know how y'all feel, Zach and Katie, looking back, is that I did several campaign schools. So I had been thinking about running for office, but it had taken a while for me to actually do it. But I prepared myself by saying, okay, if at least I'm going to learn how to do this. i'm going to take a class.
00:13:39
Speaker
And I took a class with new politics and a class with the campaign school. So my question to y'all is, if you could go back in time to think about something that you would have done differently at the beginning to set you up, um or is there something that you're working on now? mean, for me, it's always raising money, but I don't know about y'all.
00:13:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's the raising money. Like I remember at the very beginning, i had coffee with a really good friend of mine who had been involved with a couple of campaigns. And I was like, I'm going to run a really scrappy campaign. I'm not going to raise much money. i'm not i may not even have much staff. Like we're just going to, you know, just...
00:14:17
Speaker
only do field all day long. And she was like, that's cute. Like that you're, you can't win that way. And so then I said, okay, all
Authenticity and Marketing in Campaigns
00:14:25
Speaker
right, then I will learn and I will turn the page and, you know, let's go do that. So I do, i think recognizing that at the outset, you know, would be something that I would change. I think I learned it pretty quickly, but, um but raising money, i think, and having a good path for that as soon as you can.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely good to do. i don't I don't know about, this is my first time to to run a campaign or really be heavily involved in a campaign. I've i've lit sticked and I've phone banked before, but i I never really knew what the inner workings of a political campaign entailed.
00:15:07
Speaker
But I do know my district really well because it's been my home for so long. And I also, I'm a trial attorney. So I know i know how to how to talk to a jury. And it turns out that jury selection is a lot like talking to voters.
00:15:24
Speaker
Because you're whenever you get a panel of 40 to 50 people that are going to be on your jury that day, on that panel, you have to You have to talk to them. And it's called voir dire. You just talk to a whole group of people and you get to know what's important to them. What are the issues that they want that you to talk about? That sort of thing. Zach, can we can we clarify? In Texas, it's voir dire. In every other part of the country, it's v voir dire. Here in Texas, it's voir dire.
00:15:51
Speaker
you got Yeah, you have to emphasize dar. This is Mission Texas podcast. right mission i texas distinction I'm just trying to educate our listeners. In case they've ever heard of voir dire, they should not say it like that here or they'll be posers.
00:16:08
Speaker
I went to school in California and then I went into the Marines after that and i was all up and down the East Coast so I had to actually unlearn voir dire and I had to relearn voir dire whenever I moved back to Texas because that was not in my vocabulary. But anyway, yeah, that's's that's talking to voters. That's talking to people. you get ah You get a whole diverse group of people that are going to be on your panel. And then i own my own business. i own I own my law firm and I have made every marketing mistake you can possibly make when you own a law firm. I've spent money on stupid stuff that doesn't do anything. But
00:16:45
Speaker
I want some examples of this. let's park Let's park here real quick. I need to learn. I need to learn. Billboard TV, radio, all of it. You name it, I've spent money on it. and And it's just... Were you holding a sledgehammer? Were you standing on top of a an 18-wheeler? No, I was the car crash captain. That was my name. The car crash captain? Car crash captain, that's right. Was that your rank when you got out?
00:17:10
Speaker
I was a captain when I got out, yeah. Okay, I like it. oh I had, I had, you know, like Captain Car Crash was also right there. Like it sounds like a soup, like a superhero name. That sounds like cereal to me. Captain Car Crash. That sounds like, yeah yeah. Captain America also though. I've made all this thing, but I under, I think I understand marketing pretty well. i got my MBA after I started my firm, used the GI bill for it since it wasn't retroactive. Sure would have been nice if I could have just paid off my student loans with that thing.
00:17:37
Speaker
But I got another degree instead, learned a lot about marketing, learned about a lot about what I was doing mistake-wise. And it's applying directly to reaching voters and talking to them. I got a great example of this, and that is ah the the moderate of crowd that we're going after in my campaign. These are the the people that don't always vote, or if they do, sometimes they vote, you know, Democrats, sometimes they vote Republican, if we have data on them.
00:18:04
Speaker
But we've put them all in the middle and said, these are our moderate targets in this district. And I have complained to but the people on my team. I've said, do we actually have to knock on all of these doors? Like, this is a lot. These are a lot of doors knock on. Can't we just like send a mail or something or or send something on the TV? And the response that I got to that was so good because it was like, look,
00:18:27
Speaker
Talarico and Paxton are going to be inundating these people come October with every ad all all day long. That's all they're going to hear. And so even if you did spend some money on TV ads or something or mailers, it would go right in the trash or in one ear and out the other. But if you knock on their door,
00:18:48
Speaker
that's sticky. That's something they're going to remember. They're going to hold, they're going to see that flyer that you left or they're going to remember your face and your name. And that's all we need them to do by the time they get down to your name on that the down
Campaigning in the Texas Heat
00:18:59
Speaker
ballot part. And I understand that because I can put up a billboard and I can put up my, you know, up on a a TV ad, but I can't compete with a guy holding the hammer. That guy's spending way more money than I can ever spend. And so that, that was my best lesson that I think I learned so far about,
00:19:16
Speaker
about block walking, about running a campaign. You got to actually knock on doors. Fortunately, unfortunately, in July and August in Texas. Yeah. What about you, Katie? Are you knocking on a lot of doors and any advice you have for for people in doing that?
00:19:31
Speaker
o I got to tell you, I love knocking on doors. So before I was, Zach, I'll come at that. Let's do a joint one. Let's do a joint one, Katie. You come on over here and knock on some doors with me and teach me how to do it. For sure. Yeah. I'll go out.
00:19:47
Speaker
Yeah. Before I ran, i volunteered on 10 different campaigns and knocked on doors, including, like I said, the the predecessor for the seat. So I actually love it. It's it's my one of my favorite things to do. So yes, we we've been doing it. A nice thing is that I've been able to help support candidates that have had elections in the past six months. so like Senator Taylor Rimet, for example, his district overlaps 45% with mine in 94.
00:20:15
Speaker
So we were able to say, okay, and that overlap portion, I'm going to knock on doors and I'm going to support right Taylor, but also, hey, I'm Katie. I'll be on your ballot in November. And then I would ask everybody, what is your number one issue that you care about from the Texas legislature?
00:20:35
Speaker
Sometimes they have an answer, sometimes they don't. But I ask every person that answers that question. And that's really helpful because then, you know, you find out what's on people's minds and there's just nothing better than that. Then you're hearing directly from people.
00:20:49
Speaker
So that's, I think one tip is just always don't just talk at people and tell them your platform, make sure that we're listening and we're asking that question. And I've had just some some great conversations that way. and then And then, yeah, getting to support other candidates prior prior to this race. so ah But now we're we're in full swing for for my campaign. And um and i think another great thing is making sure that you make it family friendly. I think some people, every one of our campaign events is family friendly.
00:21:23
Speaker
And so, you know, people want to bring their kids, that's great. I do the same. I bring my kids sometimes. And so making sure that you have water, snacks for everybody, and and just make that open for people to to be able to participate.
00:21:38
Speaker
And for new people, make sure that new people have an experienced person that they're paired with so that it's it's less
Family Involvement in Politics
00:21:45
Speaker
scary. i know for some people, the first time they walk walk, it can be scary, but then you end up loving it.
00:21:51
Speaker
You rip off the mandate. No, and and I really appreciate what you're saying about being family friendly. I think Kate and I share a passion for trying to make democratic politics in particular better about this. And for some reason, Republicans for all their faults and flaws from our perspective, they do a lot better on this than we do.
00:22:11
Speaker
um And we got to get, you know, people like us involved. And we all have young kids. And the reality is like, we are going to be a lot more effective and can participate in a lot more things if it's clear that the kids are welcome.
00:22:27
Speaker
Because a lot of stuff we're going to have to self-select out. If it's not. Well, I just wanted to give you a shout out, Katie, because I went to your opening kickoff event. i don't know if you remember at that brewery. And I told your team, I'm so excited that this says kid friendly and you had crayons and coloring pages. And my daughter, you know, it was just such a great thing because I like Alex.
00:22:49
Speaker
It's one of my pet projects is to make things more kid friendly and also encourage groups to do that. I'll give a shout out to Beltline area Democrats who are here in the Irving-Coppel area. And they've reached out to me, how can I make this more kid-friendly? How can I advertise to make this more kid-friendly? Lisa was on our podcast last week.
00:23:07
Speaker
So I'm really excited and encouraged because Alex said, like, we need to be doing better than that. The Republicans are. Allison Campolo told us this in the beginning of our podcast, that they're doing a much better job and we have to get out there. Because ultimately, how do we elect Republicans?
00:23:22
Speaker
parents, how do we get people who are voting, who have kids out there and motivated and also being involved? And so i guess to flip it back to you guys, how how else can we be doing better at that as a party?
00:23:35
Speaker
and sometimes I think of this as like myth busting. And I do hear the Ghostbusters theme song in my head when I'm saying that, because the Republicans paint us out as being anti-family, anti-patriotic.
00:23:47
Speaker
So how do we combat that myth? I mean, for me, I think it's just be who you actually are, right? Which is patriotic and it is family friendly. I have an American flag flying outside of my house right now. As you said, I have an Air Force veteran as a husband. I think I'm proud. You don't give your power to other people to define who you are. You know, you know who you are. so just be who you are.
00:24:09
Speaker
And i think for to be more family friendly, i think we have to be the change that we want to see. and that's why it's. We're going to start. We're going to do this in our campaign. And hopefully others see that and embrace that and get used to seeing kids at more events. I think it's great when also your kids get to have a part in it too. We had city council races recently and my son was block walking with me and I got to be like, you helped make that happen.
00:24:37
Speaker
You helped block walk. You were part of that. you know And I think just having... Kids also feel like they have a stake in it because they absolutely do.
00:24:48
Speaker
But now they get to participate in a new way. So I think we just have to normalize it by just doing it. I like that. I like i also like the being authentic because it it goes back to, once again, being a lawyer, being a trial attorney.
00:25:03
Speaker
One of the things that we all have to unlearn, I think you guys can understand this pretty well, we get out of law school and it's like we have to unlearn how to be a real person because the I still have attorneys on the other side that I talk to, usually the newer ones that go that call me counsel. Counsel, what are we going to do? And I'm like, why are you calling me counsel? just My name is Zach. Just call me Zach. You don't have to be so formal. like It affects the way we talk. That's not authentic. Nobody talks that way in real life. And when you're talking to a jury, they can sniff it out real quick. They know when you're not being real. They know when you don't believe what you're telling them.
00:25:42
Speaker
And so that's the that's definitely something that i resonated with that Katie just said. And then one of the big things that we're doing is we're doing scoops with Zach. It's an idea that I got from the mayor, current mayor of Richardson, Amir Omar, who did it during his campaign because I like ice cream. And so, you know, why not do something I like to? I go to a park and invite people in the neighborhood. i have the ice cream truck. My favorite ice cream place here in Richardson is tongue in cheek.
00:26:11
Speaker
They come, everybody gets free ice cream, and then I talk and then take questions. We invite all of the stronger Democrats in the area to come and talk. So it's a really friendly place. People find out there's ways to volunteer. There's always a playground right next to it for kids to play on so that. They can bring their kids, family friendly event.
00:26:30
Speaker
we We see more of the younger crowd come to those types of things. And then the official, you know, meetings with the Democratic clubs, the younger crowd's not usually coming to those. And it's not necessarily because they're not kid friendly. It's because we're all busy, right? We all got stuff to do. Kids have got games and stuff like that. but I found like three o'clock on a Sunday It's a great time to bring your kid to to a playground, have some free ice cream, listen to me talk. All my kids are there. I got four of them.
00:26:59
Speaker
My two teenagers are usually helping, and then my two elementary school-aged kids are usually making a ruckus. This last time I did it, I'm in the middle of talking, and my seven-year-old son has decided to throw a big clod of dirt at an aluminum picnic table and broke apart.
00:27:18
Speaker
Just dirt went everywhere. And I didn't skip a beat. I kept on talking. Everybody was staring at my kid But i think I think as long as you're authentic like that, it's definitely going to help. And it's going to help with people that that want to help
Call Time and Fundraising Disparities
00:27:33
Speaker
too. I found a lot of people at those events that that want to help with a campaign and they didn't know how until they came and heard me talk and ask questions.
00:27:43
Speaker
I love that you're taking things that you already like and already would be doing anyways and kind of transforming them into campaign events. Yeah. It reminds me of how when Beto was out in his truck doing the crisscrossing 254 County strategy, ah he would do like drop-ins to like local run clubs and get his run in with those clubs like bright, you know, dark and early. Right. And it's because,
00:28:08
Speaker
He's a runner and he wants to stay in shape while he's eating all that Whataburger out on the road. And so if it's something you're already going to do, you might as well do it while while meeting voters.
00:28:19
Speaker
And Alex, I've invited you to at least two of them now. I know. And i'm and I've meant to go to both of them. i' just how Things have come up and I'm sorry. I do intend to get some ice cream with you.
00:28:29
Speaker
You know, Kate, you know why I haven't invited you to one of those is because he keeps popping up on my call time. I have no idea why, but every time i have a list for call time, al Alex jumps up on it and we're already dialing before I can stop him. Right. And I'm like, oh, hey, hey, man. Hey, what's going on?
00:28:48
Speaker
love it it It truly is a mystery. I think people think that I have, you know, way more money for political spending than I do because it's it's just not true. It's not. I don't know why. but Well, you guys said a phrase that I wanted to touch on, which is call time. Okay. So give me your thoughts. I thought it was like a a program, like, oh, I got to get call time, you know, kind of like app.
00:29:13
Speaker
app And it's not, it's just me on a phone with a list of people asking people for money. So how do you feel about call time? Man, i I thought the same thing. And ah it it is it is just one of those things you have to do.
00:29:32
Speaker
The biggest surprise that I had which is kind of shows how naive I was going into this was just how much money is needed to be able to be it competitive and in a house district campaign. I, I, and honestly, money is it?
00:29:48
Speaker
It's a lot. I mean, my, my opponent has a million dollars in the bank. And our finance reports just came out. And i mean, I'm, I'm kind of neck and neck with her on this last reporting period, but I have 1200 different people that have donated to me and she has 48. No, if that's what does that work out you in terms of like average donation, average donation, she hers is $3,800 mine is and something dollars. Those are the average donations.
00:30:19
Speaker
Hers comes from a long line of special interest packs and billionaires. And Dustin Burroughs actually is the highest one that's, that's donated to her campaign. But yeah, I was just looking through it before this call. So I'm like, uh, social media posts, here it comes. Uh, but anyway, I was, I was shocked by the, by the number and how much you have to raise in in the budgets and in all of the things just to be competitive, just to like people to know who you are and that you're running. And this is a pretty small,
00:30:47
Speaker
relatively small you know race that I'm doing, which includes just a ah tiny portion of Dallas County. So that shows the naivety that I had. I knew there was money involved and you had to run, but there's just...
00:31:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's what call time is. Call time is you get a list from wherever you can get a list. You plug it into, we use a computer program that just auto dials until somebody picks up and then then I talk to them ah so we can get through them pretty quick and it leaves them a message that's me talking and you just ask for money. And it's kind of sad how good I've gotten at talking to people and asking for money.
00:31:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's something I came home the other day and talked to my wife about. I was like, I'm getting good at this call time thing. and she goes, isn't that sad? And I was like, no, yeah I think that's such a barrier to entry that people feel like it's going to be hard for them
Innovative Fundraising Methods
00:31:35
Speaker
to do that. I don't know how to ask people for money or who, and yet you do it and you just figure it out. I remember I was talking to Vote Mamas and they were telling me about the person who runs that group and how she was running for Congress. And she would go like you, Zach, like through a a big list and to keep her mind preoccupied, she would color.
00:31:54
Speaker
And then she started putting up all the coloring pages on her wall so that she just like did not feel bad about everyone denying her, you know, not of picking up the phone. So Katie, like how do you get through call time? um Sometimes I go walk my dog.
00:32:08
Speaker
so um But I'm in a very similar situation as Zach, you know, in terms of just the the disparity of, you know, average contribution, same same thing.
00:32:21
Speaker
ah But my number one priority is I want to go represent my hometown. So I will do it. I will do the hard things. Like I'm going to go do it. So that's but what you make time to do. i will say, i think there is opportunity to innovate how we do interact with donors. Like I don't know that they all want to be called like this all the time by so many people. So I do think that there is an opportunity to maybe rethink how we do some of that, especially with screeners being more prevalent. But until then, I'm going to do all the hard things and just get uncomfortable and call people and ask them for money. Hey, have you heard of Oath.Vote? Have you heard of that? Yeah, yeah. that's That's something that's kind of being innovative, I think, in this whole... Yeah. like
00:33:06
Speaker
Spectrum. What is that? Oath.Vote is a platform that people, it it just has a bunch of people running all over the the country. And it has, like, what do you want? You select what you want. You want to flip a seat. You want to you want to be in Texas. You want to be in north you want to be anywhere.
00:33:24
Speaker
And then it just says, how much money do you want to spend? And you give them a hundred bucks and they'll, so they'll divvy it up between all the candidates of whatever little wickets that you've chosen to, to do. And so I'm, I'm, I got on oath.vote pretty early just because somebody else told me about it. I had never heard of it.
00:33:42
Speaker
And i mean, every donation is like a dollar 40, you know, or sometimes 50 cents. And It just, it kind of racks up. And, and I've, I've think over time it's been, I've probably gotten maybe $8,000, $9,000 just from Oath since I signed on Wow. like That's just cool.
00:34:01
Speaker
It's like six months, I think. Checking it out. You might have to get them on the podcast. Yeah. We're on it too. And I will say the other, the nice thing too, is it's also, it's not where you're on a list now for somebody else to call. I think that's really appealing from being a donor.
00:34:17
Speaker
But I do want to say that I think a benefit of call time and my favorite my favorite ones are where you're actually talking to people and you just have like a good conversation. You know, when it's – I ask everybody also, what's your big issue that you care about? I've had some really great conversations that way. Zaki, you were mentioning like it's – you ran a business and a lot of like setting up a campaign – hiring people, getting a staff, raising money. A lot of that is sort of like a business and you have to treat it that way. And I found that there were different avenues of making money and fundraising. And a really big one for me was an email program. So do you guys have, like are there different areas that you think are you're able to raise money through? And there are there places that you're like, oh, I wish I'd done that sooner?
00:35:01
Speaker
Like an oath.vote. I'm so glad you brought that Kate, because I was just going to ask like emails, text messages. Like i feel like Everyone agrees that they suck.
00:35:12
Speaker
yeah and No one likes getting them. But the reason why we keep getting them is because they work. work they work yeah yeah we got this But there's going to be a point of diminishing returns, right? like I feel like voters are so annoyed.
00:35:27
Speaker
Yes, I am. Even from the politicians they really love. I
Role of Social Media in Campaigns
00:35:31
Speaker
don't know. it it helps. it's It's annoying and i get them too, but I don't ever unsubscribe from them because I'm just curious as what everybody else is typing into those you know text messages now. we have We have this company that just does it. like I only don't unsubscribe from the people actually I don't like because I want them to spend their money on me.
00:35:52
Speaker
Look at what, Amber, man. Wow, Alex. That's another 33 cents they have spent. That's right. Yeah, you're taking down the man. That's right. 33 cents at a time. We do all that. it doesn't It's not a big return on your money. like You have to pay for it, right? You have to pay for the text message. You got to pay for the emails to go out. We're making a little bit of money on that. that's That is ah a revenue source for us. But really, the biggest revenue source has been having events at people's houses, talking about the money that we need to be able to do the stuff that we want to do, call time as well, just having conversations with people. I've gotten donations from people that I just talked to one time and then I'm like, oh, wow, that guy gave me a pretty big check. That's that's awesome. I'm glad I talked to him that day. oh Or somebody, some random person from my life that
00:36:45
Speaker
Saw that I was running and and thought, they hey, I'm going to send you a note and a check. And I have all my notes penned in and the other office where we have you know like the signs and stuff stored. So I'm starting a little bulletin board of of handwritten notes from people. And I've gotten $3 cash.
00:37:04
Speaker
in an envelope from a lady who met me at the kickoff. And i just, it was, it's with a handwritten note. I just thought it was so special. So I'm keeping all that stuff kind of a hoarder, but also because I want to remember this. I know that this is the, this is like a really great experience, if nothing else, that my kids have seen me do. It's going to lasting impression on them and on my life. And really hope that, ah that it's something that I find positive when I look back on it.
00:37:31
Speaker
Yeah. Even though it's really hard, And I'm getting very sweaty outside when I'm walking. Well, you can get it bound into a campaign like scrapbook and bring it with you to the Capitol. Once you're sworn in as a o as a legislator.
00:37:47
Speaker
i like that idea. I will say I'm saving everything too. i even have, I just got a couple weeks ago, a letter from someone in the district after knocking on a door.
00:37:58
Speaker
I knocked on his door and he sent me a check for $50. And he took the time to to type up this whole letter. you know, an older gentleman, you know, on a fixed income.
00:38:10
Speaker
But, you know, he said, you go, girl. Like he was so, you know, it was so special because it's somebody that's invested and you're giving them hope. Yeah. Yeah. And I think just whenever you can have the chance for those personal interactions with our community, it's it's everything. Well, when we look back, you know, several cycles from now and y'all are members of Congress and senators and governors, we'll we'll look back to this this vintage Doosan and and Herbert merch and letters. We knew that. Everybody starts somewhere. It's a humbling experience because of that. You get a lot of people that are working their free time and in spending their hard-earned cash to donate to this campaign. And I'm, I got a lot of imposter syndrome because of it. It reminds me of the first client that I had in the Marines. It was Criminal Defense Council in the Marines. And I,
00:38:57
Speaker
So I got in my office and had my first client across from me and he was, you know, he was like a private or something. And I'm a first lieutenant and told him, okay, this is what, this is what your case is. And this is what we're going to do. And he said, trust you, sir.
00:39:13
Speaker
And it was this, that was the scariest thing you would possibly say to me. I was like, I don't know why I didn't say this, but in my head, I'm going, I don't know why you trust me. was my very first day, man. Like I've, I don't know what I'm doing, but that scared me into the motivation, which, which made me work my ass off for him and for his case. And,
00:39:32
Speaker
I don't know what happened. I'm sure I won because I'm so great. I'm going to do the same thing in 112, right? I'm going to use that humbling, you know, the feeling that I have to work really, really hard, not only on the campaign, but when I get down to Austin to represent these people so that they're like, good, I'm glad that I backed that guy. he's This is a good investment that I made and in
Balancing Campaigning with Personal Life
00:39:54
Speaker
my community. I think that's great. And this is to sound cheesy, but it really reminds me of, there's a scene in one of the Harry Potter movies where They're doing the underground Dumbledore's army thing. Everybody's just super frightened and they don't know if this is going to work. And they say every great witch and wizard started exactly where we're at right now. And it's true.
00:40:14
Speaker
Every great politician started where you're at, right here at at the ground level, grassroots. And So you'll be thinking down the line, keeping back your head, where are you going to put your presidential library? A&M is taken, SMU is taken, but there's lots of colleges here in the North Texas area. So this has been, this has been been a really good therapy session for me. i don't know about you, Katie, but you're like, you guys are, yeah, this is like, this isn't a podcast. This is just kind of a a little just share time and, and get some encouragement. I like yeah Energize. I might even go block walking after this, Katie. i don't let us Go do it, Zach.
00:40:51
Speaker
I'm in favor of therapy. So this is good. I've been watching the show shrinking on Apple tv on TV. Wow. Excellent. And you know what, what it is, is the producer, Bill Lawrence. I've realized that like all of the great shows he's involved in,
00:41:06
Speaker
It's shrinking. Rooster on HBO, if you haven't seen that. Great. I, for my whole like high school experience, Scrubs. I'm a Scrubs super fan. The new season is good, too.
00:41:20
Speaker
Oh, I like the new season. Yeah, like the new season, too. Ted Lasso, also a Bill Lawrence show. wow Wow. Just figured out how to do like the comedic, but also like serious and heartwarming stuff at the same time.
00:41:32
Speaker
You finish an episode and you're happy instead of like, sometimes they, they really ended on a downer, but well I'm thinking of Ted Lasso. I don't think there's a Lasso episode where I wasn't smiling from ear to ear at the And was just like, ah, that was good TV, man. That was great.
00:41:46
Speaker
Yeah. Well, back to Katie and Zach, if I may, uh, Alex, you know that's a nice little Bill to edit all that out. No, just kidding. But you know back to being a working parent running for office, I found it really difficult to figure out how to allocate time in my day. and some evenings there were events and I couldn't do anything else, but I figured i had a job. i have some time. I have to be a parent, apparently. but how...
00:42:16
Speaker
With the few hours that you have and then the weekends, like how are you figuring out how to allocate your time? Because if you have no job, you're retired, you're rich, like all day long, you could just do call time. And all day long, you could go out block walking. so And I was talking to somebody.
00:42:31
Speaker
was like, how you allocate your time is really how like what your priorities are. And it's sounding to me like you're you're doing a little bit of both. So what are y'all's priorities and how you allocate your time in the day? Yeah, I think just for me first, it's like you got to have another gear.
00:42:46
Speaker
I think you just do in order to do this because it does mean essentially you're working two jobs, right? I'm working my a job, which is a demanding job. I'm a business leader. I work for you know a company. It's a demanding job. I manage people.
00:43:01
Speaker
And I'm also business. this work that I care very deeply and passionately about. And so that means, you know, in the morning, I'm working on this and the evening and afternoon, I'm working on this. I was up until 1am last night, ah doing some work, but I'm doing it because I want to because I care. So I think you you find the time and, and I think it's about prioritization, you know, it is about what's what do I need to do now? What's the priority now, because you'll get too overwhelmed if you try to think about
00:43:33
Speaker
everything you have to do. It's like, what are the critical things right now that we need to get done? And I think letting some of the other stuff go that maybe you don't need to do, or maybe somebody else is actually the better person to do it. So I think that's another like lesson learned is, you know, you don't have to be the one to do all the things. And then finally, it's really about that purpose, right? Like I'm running to represent my hometown district and that matters a lot to me.
00:44:02
Speaker
And so that purpose is what drives me and motivates me every day. And my kids get to see that. My family gets to see that. That's what helps drive me every day as a working parent and trying to balance the things that, no, I have to do this for my kids. Like this is something we're going to go see a play tonight, for example. Like I'm going to do that. I'm going to prioritize that. So keeping your priorities, your purpose and that extra gear. Do you guys know that Horton Hears a Who movie? You ever seen that? There's there was a scene in the where the mayor is spending a time with each one of his kids at dinner, and they've got he's got like a conveyor belt of kids coming through. Like Elon Musk.
00:44:45
Speaker
i feel I feel like that sometimes, with four kids, even though I know four is not that much, but... i i try to I try to spend time with each one of them in their own way. I try to meet them on their level. right And for my my son, he likes to work out. So we've been lifting a lot of heavy weights this summer together.
00:45:06
Speaker
For my teenage daughter, she likes to do woodworking or get acai bowls with me. And then for my other two, sometimes it's just as simple as watching a movie or cuddling with them. But I i try my hardest to, you know, close the laptop and turn the phone off and and at least get some time in. with them. It's more than what court the mayor does in Horton Hears News. More time than that. But you know i try to I try to do that. It's like I call it spinning the plates. You have plates on a stick, just making sure they're all spinning. I'm a firstborn. My wife is a firstborn.
00:45:40
Speaker
i only had I had two sisters younger than me, and she had two brothers younger than her. we're like We're like type a both of us, right? So we always have lists and schedules and we've got a shared calendar and our days are always blocked off. We'll have, we call them calendar meetings where we like sit down with a calendar for the week. We're like, okay, you need to take her there and I'll take these ones over here. So need to watch the kids. We're just able to do it because we've always done it.
00:46:07
Speaker
And we add in that we run this business together. She's my COO of this law firm. We operate it the same way. And so we've just added one more thing in there. And that's just a little campaign. No big deal. You know, just add that in there. We had a good conversation before we started. And she was like, look, I know that more is going to have to, you're gonna have to lean on me more.
00:46:29
Speaker
when it comes to the the stuff that we do, the logistics of the house and I'm all for it. It's for a good cause. It's because we both believe in this. And so, you know, I think I'm gone two, maybe three nights a week this week where I'm just going to say, you know, Hey, bye. And, and put the kids to bed and then go to some event. Sometimes she can go with me and that's great. Sometimes she can't, but you know, we just, we're making it work the best we can. And, and, uh,
00:46:57
Speaker
it's because we're kind of used to stress and we're both very high functioning, anxiety driven people that want to be straight A students. So if we kind of just use it as their superpower. Well, this is a skill set you're going to have to have. I mean, God willing, y'all win in November.
00:47:14
Speaker
i mean, you're going to be bestowed the honor of having a second job in and addition to your your job. And for this honor, they will give you $7,200 year.
00:47:27
Speaker
So it's it's an important skill set you're working on by having the campaign work in addition to your regular job, because it's going to be similar, if not more doing the real legislative work that will come up, come with the office.
Post-Election Preparations
00:47:41
Speaker
Yeah. I've had to learn how to delegate some things that I only, I do at my firm, to to other very capable employees. I'm doing it now as kind of like a test run because I'm physically here, but come you know January, February, i'm going to I'm going to be physically gone. So I'm i'm hoping that actually we're doing we're doing great at the delegation thing.
00:48:02
Speaker
I'm just really looking forward to like May you know or June of next year, because then I'm going to have no idea what to do with myself. right When the session's over, What am i going to do? We'll have a special session. That's what's going to happen. if If it's anything like prior years, Governor Abbott will fill your time. Gina's going to win. and right have Governor Hinojosa will not do that. We'll get all of it done in one session and it'll be the best thing ever. It'll be so cool. yeah
00:48:33
Speaker
The one thing that Zach and I didn't say is that you also have to find time for yourself. like You also have to find something. but to just like be a human and go do something for you. And that's, I think, an important lesson that you have to also
Personal Achievements and Motivations
00:48:51
Speaker
recharge. That's the perfect segue to the the portion of the show I love the most, which is our new segment called Good News.
00:48:59
Speaker
So I really want to know, like, what are the things you are doing for yourself or things that are coming up or have happened recently in your life that are just so good You have to share them. I got one. Okay.
00:49:10
Speaker
but So I mentioned that I'm working out with my son. He's 15, about to be 16 next month. And I... You're officially shredded. i Well, I did max out. I maxed out on the bench with him.
00:49:24
Speaker
And i have two things that are good news. One is I did 235, which is... higher than when I was in the Marine Corps. I don't know how. Hey, let's be all those steaks. Yeah. That I eat now. So I'm bench pressing more than I've ever benched in my entire life. And my second bit of the good news is it's more than my son and I've beaten him. So I think it's that's critical.
00:49:47
Speaker
Very important when you're a dad of a teenage son, yeah you know, points out every time he's doing the same weight as me for like a curl or something. I'm like, yeah, but bench press. Nothing yet. Yeah.
00:49:58
Speaker
See, if you were calling already, you'd be putting that on your social media. I'm horrible at social media. I should be doing that. You're right. next that give Give the people what they want. Give them the content. The sweet, sweaty, lifting content. Shirt off, jeans on, and doing pull-ups. What do you guys think? Marine Wayne. If that's how you're doing it, it's real.
00:50:20
Speaker
Put on a vlog. All right, Katie, good news. What's what's going on in your life? Yeah, well, I'll start with one that is in the same vein. I am back at the gym. So I'm really excited to yeah, yeah. So I'm not I cannot brag about ah the the weights that I'm lifting, but I'm happy to be back and spending that time for myself. And we just had the World Cup in Arlington. And so honestly, that was really good news. Like it was really good to to have so many people here and just see people's reactions and getting to experience Texas, right? It's like they loved Buc-ee's and they loved, you know, ranch dressing and... Tex-Mex restaurants. I saw David Beckham was at Terry Black's the other day. Oh, really? Yeah. That's awesome. Raccoons with like whiskey bottles, the Harland guy. Yeah. Birmingham Harland. Yes. Yeah.
00:51:10
Speaker
Well, I love a theme. So I'm just going to say that I got back on my tonal, which is ah a home gym. And I crossed the million pounds lifted threshold over the course of my time on the machine. Wow. That's cool. It's not like I lifted a million pounds. I'm not Superman. But over the course of time, I have lifted a million pounds on on the tonal. That's like at least one block of the pyramid, right? yeah like you're you're You're there. You're almost there.
00:51:36
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I guess I have to go with this theme. while will say my daughter is turning four. She's right behind me when she was one. Other than that, it's nice that having a four-year-old, I have more time to work out and also getting back into running. I used to...
00:51:49
Speaker
I used to run marathons. I feel like very old saying that. And I want to do a half this fall. So keep me to it, y'all. I'm going to do it. I'm going run. So I've been running on the treadmill. It's too hot out. Okay, let's run the Dallas half.
00:52:02
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, let's do it. um You want to register? Yeah, I'll register. It's December. I'll be prepared by then. You got time. You got a ramp. And then now you'll have something to focus your your energy there. okay
Strategies for Long-term Political Impact
00:52:13
Speaker
well, that was our good news. This is our last segment. We're going to give you all the last word on what you think it's going to take to not just s flip your race, but flip Texas. Any impressions that you think that we need to be doing better? Give us our marching orders. We started with Katie at the top of the podcast. So, zach what do you think? Well, I'm going to steal from the Zach that spills his name wrong. He said, get your hands dirty. And I like that a lot. There's so many different ways that you can be involved in, not just in my campaign, but in in pretty much in Texas politics that I really didn't know about before I went into this thing. You can you can call and sign up for... calling calling people at a phone bank. You can do postcards. You can go to a, go to a meeting, go to a rad meeting. If you live around here or your local democratic club, they got a lot of cool people there that are, that are really trying to help out Texans and trying to flip this state. There's, there's so many different opportunities that I didn't know about. And as a busy parent, I really didn't think it was for me. I didn't think that, Oh, I don't have the time. You know, I've,
00:53:16
Speaker
I want to put on my pajama pants and watch Ted Lasso at the end of the day. Right. I don't want to I don't want to do anything else, but that that's what I have learned is is if you just put yourself out there, you get your hands a little dirty.
00:53:28
Speaker
There's something for everybody to help out with Texas politics. You can donate, you can call, you can block walk. You can, you just go to a meeting and and listen to the different people that are there and share it with your friends, put a sign out in your front yard.
00:53:42
Speaker
But one of the things that I keep telling people, and they don't seem to want to do this very often, but that is like and share the posts that people post on social media.
00:53:52
Speaker
um Whenever your candidate or any candidate that you like posts, just just share it or retweet it or Re-share it on Instagram, I think is what it's called. I don't know for sure. but That c stuff is free. Yeah, just do that. Say, hey, this is a cool guy.
00:54:10
Speaker
His name is Zach Herbert. and And send it to all your friends. Something like that. Because that social media, I am bad at it. But I'm trying hardest to be better at it. And that's that's my take on it.
00:54:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's the bottom of the ballot up. I think we've got to have a real focus on the bottom of the ballot. We got to get out there in the field. And I think more investment and support at the bottom because that's what's going to drive the top of the ticket. That's what's going to help turn out.
00:54:37
Speaker
And when people show up, we want to make sure they get all the way down. So I think bottom up um and being curious, you know, I think both as candidates being curious and if you want to get involved, there is a spot for every person that wants to volunteer on a campaign. um So be curious, ask the question because there is something and that you will enjoy. So, you know, i think just putting yourself out there, asking those questions and yeah, field all day long. Well, thank you both. We are proving that working parents are going to win in this coming election. I want to see you guys in the ledge. We're so grateful for both of you. And I'll sign off by saying God bless Texas.