Transcript
Speaker: This is Mission Texas.
Speaker: Welcome back to Mission Texas. Today, we are talking to a Houston mom who is suing the state and her school board over the Ten Commandments in her kids' schoolroom.
Speaker: Welcome to the podcast, Emily Roth. Thanks for having me. So I'm super excited to get into the lawsuit and where all that is. But before we do that, wanted to get into, like, how do we get here, Emily? What's your what's your background? What's your origin story, as we like to say with all of our guests?
Speaker: Sure. I ask myself how I got here all the time. Really, i don't come from a political background at all. I've always been very politically aware, of course, living in Texas.
Speaker: But I got an email in October of last year from our elementary school principal saying that the Ten Commandments posters were going up in my daughter's classroom. She was in kindergarten last year, and we don't teach...
Speaker: the 10 commandments, my husband and I have decided to teach our kids, you know, about religion, but not to follow a strict religion. And if our kids should choose to be religious one day or pick a religion of their choice, we want to encourage that open-mindedness. And for me, it's really important because I think that critical thinking and accountability is really important for a girl.
Speaker: and in these days. So I i went through the school process. I emailed and I said, we should i don't want the Ten Commandments up in my child's classroom, not only on like a moral and ethical grounds does it go against what I teach at home, but also the language is not appropriate for a five-year-old who's learning to read.
Speaker: The words kill adultery, manservant, one God, those are all put like on a poster on her wall as she's learning to read. And people will say like, it's it's a poster, it's teaching not to kill. But like my five year old hadn't hasn't grasped the concept of people killing people yet. Right. And like, especially in school, that is, i mean, that is a huge deal.
Speaker: ah to parents. Okay. So we're shaping the environment and not only is i mean, the language is very surface level. Okay. And I thought maybe at a school board level, the surface level language would be enough to get the poster taken down. So I went through the grievance process. I went through three hearings with Spring Branch ISD, which is one of the biggest school districts in Houston. And it ended with a level three hearing with the school board where they had an attorney opposing me. And um they unanimously voted against my requests to take the posters down. And I also had a second request that if we could not take the posters down to adopt an inclusion policy and they rejected both. I,
Speaker: Also did a donation request to the district to donate other religious posters and I made them i made sure the language was appropriate I matched the style look and feel exactly to the weird black and white ten commandments posters and that was also rejected by the district so through the process I met so many parents in Houston who were feeling the same way. So my hearing was on a Monday and the next Tuesday, the district removed Ramadan decorations from another school in the district.
Speaker: And so I was kind of connected to those parents because we're all kind of fighting the same fight and in our own silos, in our own elementary schools, And it just really made me see the bigger picture of Texas. you know We're incredibly diverse and there are so many parents that don't agree with the direction that the Texas education system is going.
Speaker: And it's really scary, the opportunity to have Some attorneys who are going to do the case pro bono came up and i was just very excited to maybe have a pathway to really get the posters down. We are taking a different approach. We're not doing an establishment cause case. Obviously, the poster is unconstitutional. And that is relevant to our case, but we're focusing our case in Texas under Texas law.
Speaker: So the Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act, TRFRA, and the Parental Rights Amendment, which was added to the Texas Constitution by voters in November. So we're grounding our case in Texas law.
Speaker: kind of trying to take a different angle on it. It's such a strong case. and That's a really interesting spin on it because I think everyone would assume that, yeah, that this would be like a classic establishment clause case because it's the state kind of establishing a preferred religion, right? Like you hear about favored nations and people who get better deals because they're they're liked. um It seems like the state is establishing that Judeo-Christian...
Speaker: Old Testament Ten Commandments, right, from Mount Sinai down to Moses, is going to be something above and beyond all these other religions. Like you said, like you asked for them to at least, if you're not going to take it down, at least create some equity, some parity with all the others. But two things you said, I think, jumped out to me also as kind of maybe not intuitive to how people might be thinking about this. One, I think you said, correct me if I'm wrong,
Speaker: is that you're not against your kids being religious. You just want them to have an authentic religion, one that's not kind of handed to them and imposed upon them. And I think that's really valuable and important. I think people from religious backgrounds can appreciate that. You want it to be real. You don't want it to be just something you do because you're supposed to, like like in North Korea or something. And the second thing you said is, even if you agree with everything on the poster, is it age appropriate?
Speaker: Right? Like, that's a good point. Like, I don't want to talk to my four year old about murder. ah certainly don't want to talk to her about adultery. Like when the good guys beat the bad guys in her age appropriate shows, like Spidey and his amazing friends web them up and they yeah put a timeout or like, you know, like they're not getting hurt. They're not even getting really hit. Right. Like it's just, you stop them. Like we're not talking about killing anybody.
Speaker: Killing, I think, is a very intense thing to talk to a young person about. And I don't think you're right. Like, I don't think it's appropriate for elementary school. Yeah. And my comment section has been full of teachers saying I've had kids asking me what adultery is.
Speaker: Can you imagine? and So many teachers are being put in a really uncomfortable situation here, too. and yes, this this case is not anti-religion. And the truth is, is that the Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act and the Parental Rights Amendment were both championed by Republicans.
Speaker: You know, they were put into place because people were concerned about progressive thoughts and teachings coming into public schools. But you can't like pick and choose when the rules apply to you. okay so. we're saying that you know it's same, same, but different. As a parent, one of the like foundational, important, wonderful things about it is getting to you know grow your child's morals and ethical beliefs and watching those elements in them grow. And being in control of that is really, really important to conservative parents.
Speaker: And to to all parents, it doesn't matter which side of the aisle you sit on, that is a parental right. Like that's my right. It makes my mama bear come out. It makes me want to say like, back off. Yeah. This our right as a parent. It goes so much deeper than it just being a poster. And it goes so much deeper than it being about Christianity. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, like it really isn't about Christianity. It really isn't even about the Ten Commandments. It's about so the state thinking that they have the right to say that my child should read the Ten Commandments.
Speaker: Like who what gives anyone the right to say that my child should read the Ten Commandments. That's my job. I mean, that's where the Establishment Clause, all of that comes from to support it.
Speaker: But like the very bottom line, and Texas voters agree, conservative voters agree that parents have that right. And so to just ignore it because you like this poster on either side, it's just not right.
Speaker: Well, I'm wondering, Emily, were you tracking the legislation when it was coming through in the last leg session? before it made its way to your kids' classrooms? Yeah. Because there was a big fight. I mean, James Tallarico, one of the main people opposing it, who's now quite famous, running for Senate, was saying, well, then why don't we put up other parts of the Bible? Let's put up the Gospels, other religions. This is so important to you. The Sermon on the Mount, right? Yeah. Or Beatitudes. just love your neighbor as yourself. And they were like, nope.
Speaker: It's about the Ten Commandments. And I'm wondering, i look think of it as a lawyer. I've heard, you know, Alex and I have gone through constitutional law classes. that You can see my legal books behind me in my video. But it reminded me, like, how did we get here that they've lost so many lawsuits at the Supreme Court?
Speaker: We've had 10 commandments on the steps of the courthouse litigation already. And yet now they're saying, no, you know, they're going to win on schools. And I think it's interesting that you're using a different approach. Yeah, we're using a different approach because the other ones don't seem to be going anywhere. You know, they keep getting stalled out. And we want it to happen quickly because every day right now, my kids are at school with the poster on the wall and It's not even just on the wall i like their homeroom class. Okay. They go to art class, they go to music class and the same poster is on the wall. So that consistency and repetition is another message being sent. And it's called the commandments. You know, what would anybody think?
Speaker: public Yeah. You think this, this is a student handbook, right? Like, i don't know. it's It's a tough fight. And yes, I was tracking it, you know, the whole time, but a little bit, you feel like, what can you do? It's at such a level and you feel distanced from it. And also our case is a little different because we're the first, I'm the first mom to be suing whose child has been in the classroom with the poster, right? So a lot of these cases that came before our case, were preemptive. They were trying to stop it before the posters went up, which like, yay, we should be doing.
Speaker: But now I'm able to sue because my child every day is, you know, what the legal term is damage is, is seeing the damage from this poster. And ah it's very, it it sounds very dramatic, but like, i I am so serious when I say that, like my, my daughter is coming home and talking about religion, like every other day, talking about, i'm mapping it in my head how often it is, because I want to say like weekly, but then it's like,
Speaker: today and the next day and it's she's she's bringing home religion from school and and and probably from her peers right okay so like her peers are talking about religion and that's fine that's gonna happen okay that's part of social growth and maybe she'll learn for about an interest in religion through that and that's fine but then we have a 10 commandments poster that we're posting on the wall and it's just reinforcing an environment that approves of that messaging and making my child, you know, maybe feel like she doesn't belong there and other children don't belong there. And then it is a ah massive statewide institution that's basically condoning exclusion.
Speaker: And that is like the direct opposite of what I teach my kids at home. Like we want people to belong. Believing in different things is beautiful. Coming from different places is beautiful and interesting. It adds value to the world. And by narrowing that down in the school environment is a big deal to me. And that steps on my parental rights because that's something that I teach the opposite of at home and our schools.
Speaker: or like it's not our schools it's our state like truthfully our school is amazing our teachers and staff and principal are all amazing and I know so many of them don't support this it's really coming from a state level you know from lawmakers who have never met my kid there's a contradiction with the the command to honor thy mother and father then if it it's it's going right contradiction which you like the word of the year yeah yeah well especially when the poster boy for the posters is Ken Paxton speaking of adultery, but okay. I know we've kind of, we've dove in on the substance, but I still, I want to know more about Emily Roth, the person you said you didn't come from a particularly political family, but tell me more about like, what, what were the first things you were starting to notice? Was it like, like, like Kate said, you started hearing the rumblings about it maybe happening in the legislature.
Speaker: What is it that activates you? Because for a lot of people, they are. They're just on the sidelines. And I'm not judging them for it. They have busy lives. They got a lot going on. What is it that gets you from hearing about something that doesn't sit well with you to you are now, you're doing Yeah, you're out of here. You're in the arena to use the Teddy Roosevelt language. You're doing it.
Speaker: This was the whole basis of how I came up with the idea for my microactivisms platform. So I sent, I got the weekly email from our principal that said the posters are going up and I sent an email.
Speaker: Like I did one little thing, you know, that just like set off a snowball. effect until I'm here talking to you guys. Like I'm pot committed. got to go. yeah And, and then I met all these other moms and everybody who's working in silos and working towards the same thing, but everybody's like working on their own thing. And it just made me feel like, like, god There's so many of us and so many smart and well-connected people wanting the same thing, but we're just not very organized.
Speaker: You know, everyone is doing their own thing, which is great and fine. But it made me just think that if we could all like connect and do the same thing in the same direction, it can make a much bigger impact. And like, so I'm, I'm a mom with young kids, you know, we're in elementary school, my youngest is in pre-K. And so all of my friends are young, you know, they have their parents to young kids too. And that's like such a busy time in life. And so to expect people to go to a rally or go speak at a fill in the blank public meeting, it's a little bit unrealistic, right? Intimidating, overwhelming, right? Yeah. How can I when I've got like 10 sports activities after school, you know? and Right. How right on earth? Yeah. Art and ballet. Yeah. We have swim lessons right now, Emily. But anyway, so soccer and ballet right now. So it's a lot, right? It's a lot. And even just digesting the news every day is a lot.
Speaker: So it's really overwhelming. And like, of course, that's part of the point is to be overwhelming and make you shut down. So you feel like you can't do anything. So that's what made me think of microactivisms. Like I didn't have the idea for microactivisms before any of this.
Speaker: i I had the idea and I launched it in April after my school board hearing. Like we need an actionable like way of giving back and collecting all of our you know efforts together and moving it into one direction.
Speaker: So like microactivisms, I send out a weekly email with a two minute action. And so the thought is, if we can just get so many people together doing the same two minute action, then small actions aren't small anymore, right? Like we can make a bigger impact, we can make our voices heard. And it's like a digestible action. It's something that's really easy to do. you can copy and paste it. I have a whole, you know, engine behind it that you put in your zip code. So it filters it for your ISD. If you put an ISD in, And then local, state or national. So you get one action, but it tears the search. So you would probably get a different action than I would get. So like getting your local and moms or your local community together to do it, y'all would all get the same action. Because it's like, I didn't, everyone says local elections matter the most. And you're like, okay, yeah, sure. And then you have a kid in school and you're like, oh, shit. No, actually they do. Yeah. Elections really, really matter. Right. So just, I feel like getting those voices all together on a local level can be really impactful. So that's what we're trying to do at Microactivisms.
Speaker: And it was all micro activism.org, everybody. It is super easy to sign up. I just did it here in the background here. and know. Well, how's it doing? I mean, it seems new. It's starting off. I mean, right now we've got the general election, so maybe people aren't like paying as much attention to the school board or whatever, but how's it going?
Speaker: It's going really, really well. I have a lot of subscribers on the email platform. Meta on Instagram blocked me really fast. So I have very slow growth there.
Speaker: But on TikTok, it's grown a lot also. But really the magic is in the platform because it hyper low, it like targets to each individual subscriber's location and what's going on there. But it's going really well.
Speaker: One of the other things I did through it was I created a Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act form. So that is one of the...
Speaker: That's one of the laws that my case is suing under, but anybody can send in TRF reform. It's like an official legal notice. So it's a way to put your district on notice. And it's not just like a public comment, you know, or a petition. It it takes a step farther than that. And it's not a lawsuit either. It's just putting them on legal notice and and opens the door to a lawsuit, but is not that lawsuit. So yeah.
Speaker: I made a form there so people can go in and it fills out the letter for them and then they can print the letter out and send it in. And we've had hundreds of parents from more than 100 different school districts in Texas say they were, well, we made the forms for more than a hundred different Texas school districts. So I can't like confirm that they all mailed them in, but they did say they were mailing them in. So it's just like a lot of interest. And to me, it shows that Texas is really like waking up and taking action and saying, you know, it's gone too far. Like that's a lot of people sending it on an official legal notice to more than a hundred different Texas school districts. It's really supportive. The support has been amazing.
Speaker: I've hardly gotten any dissent, so it's been amazing. Well, I find it interesting that you're suing not under the Constitution, but this Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act. I know there's a federal one, and now there's this state one.
Speaker: and it reminds me of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. and bear with me, we're going to go on like a legal nerd rabbit hole. But I recall in her early days, she she knew we needed equal protection amongst genders. And instead of bringing cases to the Supreme Court for women... She realized if we could make it seem like men are not being treated equal, then she can get the same outcome.
Speaker: And so it feels like we're doing that here of saying like, okay, you guys really care about religion. You've passed these laws, this constitutional amendment. Let's like see where this goes. And I'm really interested and we'll definitely be following in the lawsuit. But tell us where is the lawsuit at? You filed, I would assume, a petition in a state court. And then where is it at now?
Speaker: Sure. Sure. So but really fast on that, you're exactly right, because all of the things we're suing under were championed by Republicans. And so, yeah, the point is like, if you're OK with this poster being on the wall, that means that you're opening the door for the state to post any religion poster on the wall. So that's in 10 years when we have different elected officials, you're opening the door for that.
Speaker: Right. So you can't just say this poster is good, because if you say that that's OK, then what's going to be OK in 15 years? You might not agree with the poster then, but then the precedent will be set already. But so are you in discovery? Have you like exchanged documents or other depositions? Like what's what's the state saying?
Speaker: Sure. So we started by trying to get a temporary restraining order before school started in August to try to get the posters down in our classrooms while you know the court was figuring stuff out. So That was denied, which was a big disappointment, but of course not really part of the case. So we're ready to file a motion for summary judgment because we think that the merits of the case are so solid that we think that just presenting it that way will be successful. the
Speaker: state filed a plea to the jurisdiction. Y'all can maybe define that better than I can, but there it's basically a procedural step to slow us down. So our attorneys are working on responding to that and we have our, you know, motions ready to go once that's taken care of.
Speaker: Well, yeah, hard to see how there are any real factual disputes here. All they have to argue is whether or not the court has jurisdiction. And then, like, as you say, summary judgment, I mean, The only way you wouldn't be able to resolve it at that stage is if there was something beyond a legal question to answer. And it it does kind of seem like a purely legal thing here, doesn't it? If they're really trying to slow this down procedurally, then they're trying to avoid the merits. like they don't They know they don't have much of a case. And so they're trying to prevent it at the outset.
Speaker: Yeah, I know. I mean, to say that we don't have the right to bring this to court is... totally outrageous, right? Parents have the right to have any kind of input they want into their children's learning environment. And, you know, a public school classroom is where our kids have to be by law. They have to be in school. Okay. So if private school is not an option, homeschooling is not an option because i work and my husband both work, this is a place by law they have to be.
Speaker: And so if they're putting religious posters on our kids, well, we're allowed to complain about it. So yeah, I think it's kind of obvious that that's just a tactic to slow us down. I remember hearing about this case and you and all what was going on with the ten Commandments. I'm also very much, even though i'm Catholic, I am against this in the public schools that my kids are in. But I wonder, I mean, what's the feedback now? Sometimes I worry that we're in this like information cycle where everything, like right now we're all talking about James Tallarico and whether he was sick or at some like
Speaker: medical health facility. And it's like in a state he's never been to. Yeah. yeah He's never been to Ohio. And yet, like, yeah, that's not really affecting the day to day experience of your kids and the schools and dropping them off in a classroom with something there that makes them feel excluded. And I'll just tell you from my own own experience, I remember being Catholic. I had kids coming up to me saying, well, you don't, you know, you're not a Christian and you don't even know what saved means. And,
Speaker: so Things like that that made me feel, even as a Catholic, like very much of it as an outsider, like I didn't belong. And this was back in the 80s and 90s. And so it just, to me, like how do we keep people thinking about this as we go forward, as you are now proceeding in this case?
Speaker: School is such a tricky time for kids, right? They're learning and growing where they belong and what it means to belong. and For a state to think they have the right to interfere with that is, I think, just really wrong. I know a lot of Catholics are also against this because it is not the Catholic Ten Commandments. They picked one specific form of the Ten Commandments and posted it. So a lot of Catholics have a problem with this specific Ten Commandments. the interpretation, like which which version?
Speaker: Because you said it was like King James version or something? Exactly. it is So um it says like, you know, can't worship the idols or whatever, or something like that. I'm not Catholic, so I don't know that part. My husband is Catholic though, and he's still practicing. The no carved image.
Speaker: Right. and nuts Yeah. Not something that Catholics follow. So it's like, even within the Christian sect, there's still people that don't believe in this. And regardless of if they believe in this 10 commandments poster or not, so many parents, Christian and, and other religions or non-practicing, have reached out to me saying that they don't think that these should be posted in schools. And so many teachers have reached out to me, which i don't know. To me, it really says a lot that so many teachers disagree with these posters being posted. The parents and the teachers are like on the front lines of this. And for our lawmakers... to make such an extreme and drastic decision, like posting the 10 commandments without asking, without voters approving it.
Speaker: um It's really out of line. And to me, you know, it's my right. I get to choose how my kids are religiously raised or not. No one should feel excluded. I mean, going back to Kate's anecdote about her childhood, I mean, I could easily imagine that same story being flipped on its head, right?
Speaker: Imagine a majority Catholic community And some Protestant kid going to to school and being told, you're not really a Christian because you don't believe in the one true faith.
Speaker: You know, the the church founded by Peter, you know, the Catholics are the only real Christians. And so you should feel bad because you're not really one of us. That would be horrible. we i wouldn I would be so...
Speaker: honestly infuriated if my kid came back crying and telling me that that was their experience at school. yeah to Any kid, regardless of whether you're Christian or not, like it just shouldn't be a thing that happens at public school.
Speaker: Yeah. It's sad. It hurts my heart. Like, and that's a situation that happens out loud that you described. And truthfully for kids, it's usually quiet and identity based and,
Speaker: You know, it's something that kids internalize. And that's not a message our kids should be getting out of public school, right? Like they should learn about facts at school and at the kitchen table. They should learn about morals and religion and whatever their family believes.
Speaker: because most parents believe in the sentiment behind the Ten Commandments. Okay, so by saying, sure i don't want the Ten Commandments poster on the wall, it's certainly not saying God is bad. It's not saying healing is okay. You know, like, it is saying that pushing one religion into school by the state is wrong. It's not saying the Ten Commandments are wrong. It's not saying God is bad. It's saying that Every kid who goes to school should feel like they belong there. And Texas is so incredibly diverse. And that's what makes it a magical place, especially here in Houston. Houston is like the most international city in the world, or in the United States at least.
Speaker: It's the best thing about Houston. It's the best thing about Houston. You don't come here to walk the trails or look at anything pretty, right? You don't come here for the humidity. You don't come here for the weather. You don't come for the scenery. You come to Houston because it's so diverse and seeing all the different cultures in one place is so fun and interesting and the food is incredible and all of that. And the sweet, sweet oil and gas in Houston, right?
Speaker: I promise I'm doing this as as as a pivot that's intentional. Oil and gas, right? There's a really kind of high profile, unusually high profile ah railroad commission race going on in the state where Beau French is running against an actual oil and gas guy named John Rosenthal. Should be an easy one. Layup.
Speaker: because especially because Beau French has a tremendous history of racist garbage being spewed out of his mouth um and then online and and anywhere he can get it.
Speaker: And the reason I'm bringing this up is if you are a hyper-conservative, you know, blood-and-soil nationalist who just eats up what Beau French is selling, this should concern you too.
Speaker: Like, under your own logic, right, all these new people coming to Houston and other parts of the state, Who's to stop a majority Hindu community from enforcing their religion in their schools?
Speaker: Yeah. Right? like you What's good good for the goose is good for the gander. or Right. What if there's a community that's majority Islam? I know. We've now set up a path, you're saying, through the legislature to then pass these kind of laws. because you're saying that this is an okay way to use government power, right? You don't want to open that door. You're setting the precedent. Is that the door we want to open?
Speaker: Right. You don't want to open that door. And the parental rights amendment was a conservative championed amendment to the Texas constitution that just passed. Like actual conservative values.
Speaker: The idea of restraining government from interfering. in local the religious and moral upbringing. I had a guy comment on one of my Tik TOK videos and he said, oh but I bet you'd be okay with your kid's teacher. talking about LGBTQ things.
Speaker: And I was like, that's the point, right? Like I wouldn't want someone like him teaching my kids about the LGBTQ plus community, right? Like that's the point,
Speaker: That's the point. It doesn't need to be a left versus right issue. The point is that these things are fundamental family rights and values. And we don't know what those teachers those teachers aren't trained on on these aspects of teaching. they're not trained on religion. We don't know what their views are. So like they shouldn't be in classrooms. like The posters shouldn't be in classrooms.
Speaker: And another thing is once you layer on all the different things that are happening in the Texas education system right now, right? So we have the social studies, TEKS, the book banning list. yeah Yeah. All of that. Dear listener, you don't know what a TEK is.
Speaker: It's the exist essential knowledge and skills. Yes. So these are the the curriculum standards. One of the social studies teaks is teaching the Ten Commandments as a source of American law.
Speaker: So now it's not just a poster on the wall. We're teaching to it in a different instrument within the Texas State Board of Education. So it's like each little, and that's kind of the point and it's brilliant and it's working is that each little thing, a poster, a social studies teak, a book, you know, they're all separate and each individually maybe doesn't feel like a huge deal, but when you compile them all together, it goes in a really scary direction.
Speaker: Sounds like they've been doing their microactivisms too. Clear. and You're making a really good point about how it's all connected and how we fear the indoctrination of kids in our classroom, whether it's the ultra right fearing that we're going to indoctrinate kids into whatever you know whatever the thing that they the boogeyman is of the day, or the other side, which is us fearing the indoctrinating of but one particular religion or the other. But that's what they want. I mean, they want to... It seems like to me that's what they're trying to get at. And to me, I wonder of effectiveness. Like, if we're really trying to...
Speaker: evangelize in a way of Christianity. In what way is it most effective? And I think to your point, it's saying it's through our family. I want my daughter to learn about the Catholic faith through me and through my priests at church and going to, you know, feeling community there. And I saying our prayer at dinner every night, not through her pre-K teacher who I don't know what her religion is, as you're saying. Like, I don't know what she's trained on. and don't what her religion is. yeah
Speaker: She's there to make sure my kid knows the alphabet. Yeah. Didn't go to seminary necessarily. Yeah. She doesn't know like what the Catholic faith is all about. Right. Yeah. Which one? I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I mean like James Tallarica talked about this and this big, Rogan interview is like, not only is it not helping evangelizing authentic faith, but I think it might be harming it, right? It might be actively pushing people away. Yeah. I feel that. Right. Yeah. Like it's a repulsion that happens whenever you force it. And I mean, Jesus himself, I don't have to get too...
Speaker: ah much on my soapbox here, but he would say like public despairs displays of piety are frowned upon. Like don't do it. Like he says, pharisees these are what the hypocrites do. These are what the Pharisees do. Like, you know, if you're going to pray, go, go do it in private. Don't stand on the street corner. Don't use the bullhorn. Right. If you're going to make a donation, do that privately. Don't like be splashy about it. You know?
Speaker: So it's it's against the whole, if your whole thing is you want to push Christianity, you're doing it wrong based on the guy who started it. Right. Well, and you're pushing people away. yeah Right. Like it's, this is a hard part of it to articulate for me, but i fear the Christian nationalist movement. now Sure. a bit, right? And like now I'm seeing it in my super young kids classroom and it scares me, right? Like it scares me and it definitely pushes me farther away from religion because now my conversations at home have to be about contextualizing the religion that they're seeing and bringing home instead of me
Speaker: like shaping it and discussing it when I want and how I want, I'm now having to like edit. And you know it's like, ah it's not the way i would have seen myself introducing religion into their lives. Instead of shaping it in a beautiful way, I'm now like mitigating it. And, yeah you know, it's, and and it feels wrong. And it and for me, it feels like it's coming from a control place, power, control. Inescapable, yeah right? and The same people who are pushing a live streamed execution and using the Bible to justify it. It's terrifying. What is 2026? Right. Okay. So I know all of those things are scary and, and I know everyone's really scared and everyone hears these things and they're shocked and it's overwhelming.
Speaker: But then when it's touching my kids, that's when I'm like, I can't, I have to do something like what? Like, and I need my kids to see people standing up. And I feel responsible for standing up for other kids who can't, who's aren't in the same position that I am in. Not everyone feels safe speaking up right now. You know, even i was worried about speaking up and my husband was worried about it. And,
Speaker: You know, my friends are like, you're so brave. And I'm like, I feel like I should be concerned that it's considered brave to go down the legal process and pathways that I'm allowed to go down. Like, I'm just doing the steps, right? Like, I'm just going down the steps of what I'm supposed to do to get the poster taken down. That's what I'm doing.
Speaker: And it makes a bigger statement, I guess, but it's just saying that I think the direction that the state is going is not okay. And no parent should be okay with it.
Speaker: Well, you are brave and we should celebrate that. That is a good thing, right? So thank you for stepping up. And if you're not hearing it enough, allow me to have gratitude. takes courage to put your name on a pleading.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Emily versus state of Texas. I was like, hey, husband, do you want me to change my maiden name my name back to my maiden name? Sorry, your name's on a lawsuit against the state of Texas now. We were talking about how you had courage. We were celebrating that. So I think that's a good place for us to do good news. what do you think, Alex? That's a good – that's a great place. So Emily, something we like to do on this podcast because we think it's it's an art that you develop through reps.
Speaker: You got to – I know it feels weird, especially in this episode, to talk about how we got to be better at evangelizing, but we got to be better at sharing our good news, our version of the gospel, getting our word out, because Republicans and the Christian nationalists and people who are on the far right have no trouble spreading what they want to spread.
Speaker: So people who are in in opposition to that, we got to get better at it. And so one of the ways we do it is we encourage people to share their good news, something in your personal life, something in your professional life, something completely random.
Speaker: It's just so good. You have to tell somebody about it. What do you got Okay. Well, I could come up with two because I really feel like this 10 commandments lawsuit has been so great because the amount of support I have gotten has been outrageous, right? Like I went into this assuming I was going to get just like barrage of hate, right?
Speaker: And i did not. I have not. I've gotten so much love and support. and thank yous and private messages of people saying like how this like changes their outlook on going into the classroom as a teacher and how uncomfortable they are with it on their walls and that this is giving them hope. So it's, it's really made me see that like the Texas that the outside sees is a caricature of what Texans are like most of us.
Speaker: are not fans of exclusion. Most of us, we just want to live and let live. And, you know, we think diversity is a beautiful thing. ah So anyways, I've just gotten so much support. It's been amazing. I feel like it's it's part of the lawsuit that keeps getting overlooked in the news media and stuff whenever people are bringing it up. It's not just me alone doing it anymore. I feel like there is like this huge support system of all of these people that I've never even met under me who believe in the same thing. And it feels wonderful to know that there are so many people out there who believe the same thing.
Speaker: And then from my personal life, we just got back from the hill country for fall break. And we went and looked at a whole bunch of caves. And was so fun. My husband was working all weekend. So it was just me and the girls. And we had a great time with crazy dance parties at night. And it was really fun.
Speaker: love that. Beautiful part of this day, yeah. I love the hill country, and especially having kids experiencing nature. And yeah ah we just went on a hiking trip or not hiking and camping trip a few weeks ago in New Mexico. But we so I'll share some good news. Speaking of my Catholic faith, we had our fall break, too, with the public schools, as everybody has nowadays. I don't remember a fall break when I was kid.
Speaker: But we went to South Bend, Indiana, which is where I went to school. So I went to the University of Notre Dame, go Irish, number two in football. Woo-hoo! I'm sorry, Texas, for your loss. Too soon. But i I know. My brother was there at the game.
Speaker: But, hey, we won. And it was a great trip with my daughter. I'm trying to, as a good Notre Dame alumni, I'm trying to indoctrinate my child into going to speaking up. going to the great university of Notre Dame. So if she wants to go somewhere else, she can, but she got to experience campus for the first time. And she, it was so funny cause she was like, it oh this is mommy's school. And also this is a place where you were going to go pray. Cause we went to the grotto, which is where a lot of people go light a candle.
Speaker: So it was really great. It was a really great spiritual trip and a great place to take my daughter. South Bend, South Bend, Indiana, famously where mayor Pete got started, right? He did. Yes. okay He went to the same high school as my mom.
Speaker: fact My mom grew up in South End. right. My good news. ah Lots of travel in the Clark family um is is my good news. um I just got back from Puerto Vallarta in the state of Jalisco in Mexico.
Speaker: had a nice four-day vacation. with my wife, just just me and her. First time we had been away from our and any kids at all since we went to a wedding in New York like four years ago.
Speaker: So this was this was good for us, especially because we got to come home when we were supposed to. if you don't know, this hurricane assignment nearly got us stuck there. and We got out just in time.
Speaker: The best part about that vacation is I won it in a raffle. What? The Dallas Young Lawyers put together a great event. This year's going to my first time missing it called the Bolton Ball. And it raises money for a bunch of charities supported by the D-A-Y-L Foundation.
Speaker: And I bought one $50 raffle ticket and woke up the next morning saying congratulations. With a four-day Mexico trip? Yeah. pick a pick Pick which resort in Mexico you want to go spend four days at from this list of Hyatt properties or whatever. was like, tight. This is great.
Speaker: And then later this week, we're going to San Antonio um for a conference, ah how to manage a small law firm conference. And then the week after that, we're going to go to Beavers Bend State Park in Oklahoma. It's a place my my wife's family has been going for like decades at this point.
Speaker: um First time I went there when I started dating my wife, there was a kid there who asked me to draw SpongeBob on a rock. That kid now drives. That makes me feel extremely old.
Speaker: And then my last thing that I'll be traveling about, the cherry on top of this travel good news segment, is on November 3rd, I have a Vaughn Lane scheduled to take me down to Austin, dark and early in the morning so that I can have a full day of get out the vote and then watch as the results come in.
Speaker: And I'm very excited for this election to be over. Yes, I know. Spoiler alert, we're taking a break on this podcast. We might take a little hiatus. But because we've been producing one a week, Emily. So it's been a really... For over a year now.
Speaker: For over a year. So really incredible. Yeah. Another good news. Well, Emily, in our last moments together, we are going to ask you to have the last word. As someone who hasn't been political, but now finds herself in the thick of what's going on in our legislature and the courts, how do you think we're going to flip Texas to a place where we elect people who also believe, like you, in inclusion celebrating diversity and also taking the Ten Commandments out of our classroom.
Speaker: I feel like we're getting there, don't you? This is like the most hopeful I've felt for Texas in so long. i think that people just need to vote, vote in every election, vote all the way down the ballot because our judges matter so much too. Two of my attorneys on our Ten Commandments lawsuits case are running for judge. So vote all the way down the ballot blue there. And i think we'll have a great chance.
Speaker: Excellent. Well, that's a good segue to our get out the vote. Early voting is starting next week, so get out there. If you start early, you'll get off the text message and mailing list. So that's our like fun fact. It's good for you because you get bothered less, but it's also good for the campaigns you support because it allows them to preserve their resources and spend them on people who need them. yeah Yeah. They're constantly re-updating the lists because they don't want to waste their time with people who have already voted.
Speaker: I don't want to say stop to any of those text messages I get, but I do get a lot of them. So that's good to look. I'm obviously a big activist, um, have been for a long time. i say stop to every text message. I hate them.
Speaker: There's gotta to be a better way. The only way I won't say stop to a text message. If it's only informational, if it's telling me about an event, cool. If it's an ask for money, I'm like, no,
Speaker: I'm out. Yeah. Some of them are so like spammy and fear driven. And I'm just like, Oh, right. Unless it's someone I don't like. And this is dumb because it's like five cents or something, but like, I want them to keep spending their money on.
Speaker: don't know. The cost of annoyance for me is outweighs that reward, but all right, Emily, micro activism.org. Is that where we can find you? And also we' tag you on your social media platform. Thank you so much. for being on our podcast. And we'll see our listeners next week. And God bless Texas.
