Transcript
Speaker: everybody, this is Trevor, also TH, from the I Think You Should podcast, the podcast that you're about to listen to. ah This actually started out as a solo project that I wanted to find people to partner with, but as you'll see from this first episode and the ongoing ones from this season, ah my friend B and I, as my co-host, it just was too perfect a combo. were having too much fun, so we decided to stick with it, and that's how you got the I Think You Should pod that you're about to hear.
Speaker: If you want to reach out to us with topics, offers to be on an episode to talk about something you're interested in or you think more people should know about, please email us at Ithinkyoushouldpod at gmail.com.
Speaker: Like I said earlier, this is a season, so we recorded a number of episodes that we'll be releasing over the next few weeks that started in the fall of 2025, and you'll get a chance to hear our thoughts on a bunch of different things. So, thanks. Enjoy. Enjoy.
Speaker: All right, welcome to I Think You Should Pod. This is a bit of a surprise episode because my co-host is not here, B, but I have a different co-host. Introduce yourself, co-host. Hello, my name is Marcel, I'm from Germany, and I am very happy to be here today with Trevor. Yes, and we are recording in Germany, in Amberg. Did I say it right? That is almost correct. right now ah And so I am on a trip for my job with a bunch of teenagers that I don't have to monitor tonight. And Marcel decided to come down and we're going to be talking a little bit about friendship.
Speaker: Yes, absolutely. And maybe Tolkien. but yeah because Well, a little bit, tiny bit. Can you, before we get into it, mention social media, what your sort of who you are on social media? Because you're kind of a big deal. Well, a big deal is ah it' a huge thing to say. but For those of you who have not heard of me, i am the Tolkienist is my nickname on most social media channels. And as the founder of the German Tolkien Society and the first ever...
Speaker: of the Rings Film Trilogy convention, which was called Ring Cons, today called Magic Con in Germany. um i've I've been around the Tolkien community, the worldwide community, for... damn it, let's say it, it's like plus 30 years now. We have to get how old we are. We don't have to. I'm still looking good. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm good. I'm good. But the thing is that this is one of those communities, and many of you will appreciate this from your communities, wherever you come from, that you have friendships that can go on for essentially decades. And the thing that Trevor has been trying to explain to me on this particular podcast is what you should definitely have is friendships from across continents. If possible. Obviously, we know we've got potentially listeners that don't have the access to that sort of thing. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, sure.
Speaker: So two things I wanted to get out of the way before we get going. One, unfortunately, Bea could not be on the podcast because she's having 11 Zs for the 12th time today. There you go. She said make up an excuse, and I felt that that was a good one. That is an excellent one. I'm very appreciative of it. The other thing is that usually we start off by saying something that we are currently interested in has got our attention, is like...
Speaker: of value or whatever we just to throw out there. yeah So the one I'm going to toss out that I don't think I've mentioned yet the pod is like, are you familiar with Warhammer? Henry Cavill is not making any advertisements for Warhammer right now.
Speaker: so i Yeah. it's getting I know I have mentioned this on the podcast before because I know one topic we're eventually going to do is an author called Peter Ferharvari. who is ah He writes horror novels for Warhammer. For the Wyman series. Yes. And I've gotten very into his writing. How cool is this? He's an excellent writer. um But I started reading some other Warhammer stuff because I'd read all of his things twice. Like that's how good it was.
Speaker: And I have to say... If you get into the Black Library community Warhammer, they will tell you, look guys, it's hit or miss. It's like hundreds of novels. It's thousands novels. It's huge. It's huge. So I've read a few of them. I read the like Horace, End of the Death, the whole thing.
Speaker: um I have to say, weirdly, i have found that the novels about... i read my first Warhammer comedy novel.
Speaker: or pseudo-comedy. There is something like this? Yes. How cool is this? Are you familiar with the Necrons? Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Do you know who Trazin is? From the name of it, yeah. But there is not comedy. There is not necessarily with a Necron that's comedy. There so much comedy with this guy. So Trazin the Infinite is basically a galactic hoarder.
Speaker: He goes around stealing living objects and that sometimes non-living objects from famous moments in history to preserve them because we must preserve history. that's Whether or not it puts them in perpetual you know stasis and they never live out their lives. Willing or unwilling. Correct. yeah So I read The Infinite and the Divine, which is him against his rival.
Speaker: um who Forgive me, I think it's Ortakan is the guy's name. yeah Who's like the two sides of the Necron sort of like life. Like Trazin is all about preservation and Ortakan is all about like we have to take the worlds over and so yeah stop the disaster of the universe from befalling us.
Speaker: And it is just the two of them sniping at each other for an entire novel. And it is delightful. It includes one of my favorite moments, which is Orducken says, I hope you brought an army when they start to kind of get in some trouble. And Trazin's response is, my dear colleague, you think so little of me. I brought four. And that's the tone of the whole thing. That's a classic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uncovering new layers of the 40K universe that I really enjoy. So that was mine. What about you?
Speaker: Well, the fun thing is that you know but some of you may have noticed mentioning the fact that I've been a fan of Tolkien's and his legendarium for decades. um Some of my favorite series happen to be Gilmore Girls. and Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. And Scrubs, like early 2000s, early 2000s. We bonded really hard over Scrubs. Yeah, absolutely. so And I know that you guys are lucky because you see these episodes early. earlier than that we do in germinate we are like a couple of weeks behind sure essentially so no spoilers don't send me shit please i don't want to know i you know i know i know that there is a guy who had a penny stuck up at the door he's gonna show up in the last episode i already know but don't spoil it for me um and i love the fact i've seen the first three or four episodes now because that's what's out new germinate yeah the new season i have seen none of it yet Oh, okay. yeah i'm Not going to spoil it. But the whole thing I can tell you is um one of the really important topics that, you know, dealing with classic literature, like Middle of the Rings and fantasy and science fiction is the concept of nostalgia.
Speaker: And talk to any Marvel or DC fan, you know, about going like Batman a hundred years now. Yeah. And, you know, looking back at what has been achieved and what you're doing now, what's the future of the comic or the films and whatever. And, know,
Speaker: most of the nostalgia doesn't really work anymore. I mean, trust it. you know If you've seen too much of it, if you've listened to much of it, if you've seen too many films... It feels predatory. It feels you know it feels like... you know It's not like a cash grab. That is too derogatory in the term, but...
Speaker: Are you talking about Easter eggs? That feeling of we're going to drop something in just because we know there's a certain audience from a decade ago that's going to go, oh, that thing I remember. Exactly. So for example, if you go and please, if you're huge fan of the Rings of Power series, just don't listen for about a second or two. There are some hints, obviously, towards other series, films, books, and stuff.
Speaker: And they are not necessary. Some of them are really nice. Some are really absolutely lovely. But most of the stuffage stuff is like, you know, it's just fandom. Fan service. It's fan service. yeah And sometimes it works. And in many cases by now, because we've seen so much, we've heard so much, yeah it's just no longer that, you know, reachable. And it's no longer that attractive. Yeah.
Speaker: But Scrubs works. It just works. So it's funny because I think Scrubs, I'm a little leery of watching the new show. i'm also a little leery of going back to the original one because I'm worried like, will it age well? Well, some of the stuff, Gilmore Girls is huge on fat jokes. Yeah, right. And that is just not acceptable. It's not acceptable. I mean, it's it's funny and hilarious on occasion, but making people, you know, making fun of people. the body shaming to body shame thing. It's a huge thing on the first couple of series on, on, And they actually did that on, you know, the spring, summer, fall and winter season as well. They had fad shows as well.
Speaker: Right. And that is something where I go like, yeah, OK. Like we don't need that. yeah We don't really need that anymore. Or you can make it more, you know, do it more cleverly, do more interestingly. It is. though You know, what's interesting about it, though, is like, so you've seen Ted Lasso.
Speaker: Yeah, so bill lauren one of my favorite. Yeah, he made scrubs and I know so like that's the one is he is he involved in the new scrubs series? Do you know because I don't? Yeah, he is. Okay, so that's partially partially yeah that right. have a belief like the poster is in my my hallway in oh yeah my apartment. Oh, yeah. I have Ted Lasso. I know if there's an AFC Richmond team in my men's league soccer league. Are you kidding me? Richmond? je No, it's brilliant. That's brilliant. Yeah, so I trust Bill Lawrence because the thing I will say about Scrubs that I do think would hold up if I went back and watched it from watching the clips that I've seen yeah is that Scrubs never felt mean-spirited.
Speaker: It felt more like the jokes... were never made at the expense of a character who didn't earn that expense or wasn't in line with who they were. Like, you think about the Todd as a character. Oh, absolutely. He's like... He lived he lived the role. The guy was amazing. And and like, there's all the joking about him wearing Speedos that stuff. But like, yeah he's never... It's never like he's being played as like a a character you're supposed to think like is a shitty character. It's like, no, he's a fully fledged person who is a weirdo in some ways. But like...
Speaker: He has a soft side. He has a genuine kind side. This is one of the fantasies when he has a kid. the kid comes up and he says, like, you know, Dad, not comfortable wearing a beard. I stuff. and yeah And Dad comes up and says, son, I gotta be honest, I stuff too. And they hug, you know, like in those Speedos. And they go like, that is some really sweet father-son moment. It generally feels like even when they're, like, trying to make fun of anything, they're doing it from a place of, like, no one's getting hurt by this. Like, it's it's genuine and kind Oh, and own they're learning. All the characters are learning throughout the seasons. Yeah. and And I think that still to this day, you will never convince me that Perry Cox is not one of the best characters ever on TV. He is. Because the learning as a character part, yeah.
Speaker: and That's fantastic. I don't think he's in the new series, is he? I am not spoilering. Okay. I'm not, ah you know, yeah no. But yeah. Well, that's great. So, Scrubs, the new seasons. Absolutely. Totally worth it. So we're going to talk a bit about, i think we're going to get on to Tolkien actually had questions for you that I wanted to ask Tolkien related. But I think we have to start with why I'm in Germany and you dragged your ass all the way here from Jena. It's because of the 20 years of Réunion, as the French say, hey for the Trevor and the Marseille. think 20 years...
Speaker: Almost to the day. Almost to the day. Like two weeks out, probably. Something like that. Two or three weeks. I came to Germany. Well, we met before that, though because you came to Wheaton College. Like January and February. Yeah, early in the year. But you came to Wheaton College. Our mutual friend, Mike Drought, who we have to shout out on this. The best. Fantastic. The best of all teachers. The best. Yeah. um He introduced us. And I literally remember him grabbing me being like, I told Marcel that he should talk to you because you're one of the, like...
Speaker: that better students. And I was like, that's a mistake. That's a mistake. And it was a mistake. I can tell you from Germany right now. It was a mistake. But then what ended up happening was that Mike reminded me that I had this scholarship that would pay me a good chunk of change to do anything academic. And I was like, well, what if I went to Germany? Because you said, well, what if you came yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: And you set me up with a chance to go to a couple of different universities and look at some real Anglo-Saxon texts, which is one of the coolest things to this day I've ever got to Really cool people, yeah. um And I can't remember the name of the ah professor that I met while I was in Berlin, but he was amazing. And I still was in contact with him until some years ago. yeah But he was great. So anyway...
Speaker: That all happened in 2006, weirdly coinciding with the World Cup being hosted in Germany, which means you are also incidentally the reason I'm a football fan now. You may not know this, and you cannot see this because this a podcast, at audio but the two of us are both wearing FC Karte's Jena, a Turingian, an absolute classic football club. With a beautiful stadium. And with a beautiful new stadium, which, you know, the young man over here actually visited last time he was here. And that is the German Democratic Republic continuous, perpetual, whenever number one. yeah So because the German Democratic Republic obviously no longer exists, right there's like this table. You can look it up on Wikipedia. And they had won it. And they had won most of the titles, most of the championships and everything. So we are the number one. Right now, we are like a fourth league team. But no one will ever take that title away. You will never know because no longer exists. Oh, by the way, our women's team, they're amazing. They are Bundesliga. They're top they've made top league. so the guys have to work up. You know, there is a challenge, quite obviously. yeah And we're both wearing shirts of F2 cards as you know. I'm wearing the one I bought two years ago. And that's how we do it. That's how we do it. Yeah. But yeah, so we we spent like what three months about in Germany. You're staying in my place, man. It was like the hottest summer in history. Living in an apartment that was like one room. A kitchen that was smaller than most closets. No yeah air conditioning. Playing a lot of Age of Empires 2.
Speaker: It was one of the best summers ever. It was a great time. And we stayed in touch after that. And then two years ago, because I lead a German exchange program for the high school I work at now, we had a chance to reconnect because I was in Amberg and it's only a two hour drive and a what?
Speaker: Five hour train. Four or five hours. train Yeah, it's easy. So I came up to Jena. We got to go see a match. Absolutely. We got to see the the city, which is gorgeous. And And you you met ah the only Tolkien-based, and you know, J.R. Tolkien obviously was a huge F.T. Carl Zeiss Jena fan, yeah because there is a a passage in The Silmarillion, written by J.R. Tolkien, that mentions the colors that are the colors of... Which are? ah ah you know, blue, ah gold, and yellow, blue likeed ah by F.T. Carl Zeiss Jena, and R.Pharazon in The Silmarillion has blue, gold, and white tints. So, you know, obviously Tolkien snuck in.
Speaker: Yeah, clearly he did it on purpose. There's a connection. yeah So the only football club, fan club, inspired by the Lord of Rings, Samarillian, and Tolkien is in Jena. So, you know, you're an honorary member, so to speak. yeah Thank goodness. Yeah. So we wanted to talk a bit about like the importance of having...
Speaker: you know, friendships that extend past like your immediate circle, if you can make them happen. Oh, yeah, absolutely. But interesting fact, i don't know if you maybe you knew this, but I had never been outside the United States until I came to live with you in Germany.
Speaker: You mentioned that, but only halfway through. Yeah, because i do halfway yeah yeah halfway through. And then I connected you to people. like You met people from the the German Tolkien Society. You went to Berlin to do research. And also, you went all around the country. And for those of you who do not know this, but 2006 was a very special cultural moment for all of Germany. Because we actually have a documentary, which is called The Summer Dream, The Sommertraum.
Speaker: Because for one time in my living memory that I have, Germany was a really, really nice place with kind people, welcoming people, empathetic people. And it was the sun was shining yeah like for six weeks. Through all of the championship, the sun was shining. oh yeah You had like cocktails and beers all around the country. Everyone was having fun. The team was doing well. And it was one of the best moments in German history. And we were in Cologne, which I think is the perfect city for It's still my favorite city in Germany. frank Thank you very much. It's my hometown. I like it. i The Roman ruins one was a huge part. Kelsch, which is the sort of the traditional beer of Cologne. that's um The best beer in all of Germany, of course. Reisdorf in particular. Yes, absolutely. We're big fans. But also...
Speaker: It was more diverse than a lot German cities the time. Oh, yeah, it is. It is very colorful. The Turkish population had already showed up there. There's big Polish population. Yeah. It had a lot of like the LGBTQ population was already popping up in 06, which was like when that was starting to happen. Yeah. So it felt like the most welcoming place on the planet.
Speaker: And then the football team actually does better than they're supposed to. Yeah. Because Michael Balak was like a talisman and great, but Jürgen Klinsmann, if people who know football, whatever you think of Klinsman, yeah brought in all he' doing well he brought in all these people that they were like, why is he bringing in Klose? Why is Podolsky here? Why are these guys here who are now... they did as a team what most teams never achieved before. Yeah, and they end up getting third at the end of it, which was a huge accomplishment because there was speculation they wouldn't get out of their group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mention all this because I remember, and you weren't there for this, but I went to watch... No, it was. We watched the Argentina match together yeah that went to PKs.
Speaker: Laymen stop too, they win. The entire country basically goes into complete like bedlam. And you were heading to meet friends one place and i was like, I'll go downtown, we'll catch up later. yeah I don't think we ever caught up at any point until the next morning at like 10 AM. m Yeah, you need to imagine like like two or 300,000 people partying at the same time. Well, I was over the city. I was on the subway or the S-Bahn, right? yeah Heading into town.
Speaker: And they eventually come over the speaker and like, it's all in German. I didn't, my German is terrible now and it wasn't great then. And somebody just nudges says, we have to get off. And i'm like, why? and We're not there yet. He goes, we can't get there.
Speaker: people yeah People are in the in the street and they're blocking the subway. yeah like The subway simply will not run anymore. yeah And I just remember in the time that it took me to walk from that section down to wherever like some of our mutual friends we made at that point were,
Speaker: um like I think Nina and can't remember the other guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like when we met them down there, I was kissed twice, given two separate beers. I had a flag draped over my shoulders and yeah tied around my neck. And that's happened. That just happened. And it just happened. Yeah, that summer where everything was possible. But also...
Speaker: There were like people from other countries too. like We went and saw the Poland-Germany match. We who sat in that bar where we were on one side the Poles were on the other. yeah And if anyone here knows anything about their history, that's a bit of a tense relationship. It's bit difficult at times. But Germany wins it, I think, in extra time almost. yeah Just before extra time.
Speaker: And both sides come together. Hugs, handshakes, cheers. Everybody buys each other a beer. I have never experienced like this. I've been around a little bit. And to see how appreciative and respectful and, you know, friendly, you know, you appreciate that if your opponent wins because it's a good game and it's a great team and they were just a little bit better. Sure. People could appreciate that. And there was no enmity at all. But, you know, now you've got to win. Like the polls went for, you know, they went for us and said, like, now that you beat our team. You better go win next. You know, you better win this. So that was amazing. To me, that's the thing about sports that I think important. Like I coach ice hockey.
Speaker: I started coaching again this year and we lost the playoff game. And yeah ah weirdly, the coach of the other team was one of my former students and former players from a previous team. How cool. Which was great because like, you know, I go for the handshake and line. I get the bear hug instead because sure there's still a lot of like love there. But, you know, I was telling all their players, congrats. You got to go win the next one though. Like you got to do it for us. And the genuine sort of feeling of like,
Speaker: Yeah. Like we got you. That's a support. You got to win this now for us. Yeah, support you too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what that summer felt like. Absolutely. And I had to leave, unfortunately, before the finals. Like i had to watch it home. But I just remember leaving it and getting home and saying like,
Speaker: I think I just went through something I'll never get again. oh that was unique experience for every German, trust me. For everyone this country. Because it was an incredible bond. And it brings me to the idea of like needing to have friends elsewhere. like We've stayed in touch over 20 years.
Speaker: I also moved to China in 2011. Good lord. Yeah, you went away to like a completely different part of the And I still have friends there that I still talk to. Yeah. yeah And the thing is like you can't talk every day.
Speaker: no you can't. But like you and I talk once every couple months maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But maintaining that connection I think is important. And thank God it's gotten easier, you know, because the internet and true all of those things like to do conversations over Discord or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. To like stay in touch because...
Speaker: It also, I think right now, not to get into too much of what's happening in the world. Yes, please. But I do think that having that perspective makes it easier because, especially if you're an American right now, and Bea and I have talked about this tangentially on the podcast. People know where we stand. yeah um We don't like the current administration or anything to do with it. so That's been fairly obvious from the get-go. Sure.
Speaker: But you have to find ways to sort of like stay sane, stay positive. It's easier to do that if you talk to people in other countries and get their vision of like... Completely different perspective, yeah. And it it can be about your country, but also about their country. Because obviously there have been issues in the politics of Germany right now that are causing a lot of concerns. yeah yeah um But without having friends in those places... And also I think friends that like things...
Speaker: that are maybe a little outside of your own wheelhouse. Like the other day I showed you the pictures. I went matt rock. i don't know what you call it. It has a term in German that I don't know, but essentially hanging off the side of a mountain by metal beams and like poles. Yeah. Not something I would ever do on my own, but like, you know, a friend here in Amberg was like, let's go do this.
Speaker: You get chances to do those things if you so keep contact with and perspective on what other people are doing. you know yeah and and And what I appreciate when we talk about friendship is that is something that has sort of accompanied me my whole life. Because friendship is is something that hopefully all of you out there have have come to, you know,
Speaker: visit yourself and go through in your life. You all know that there are friendships that last, there are friendships that, you know, unfortunately get lost. You know, sometimes you you have a dispute, you have an argument and then things cannot be put back together again. But one of the things that I have come to appreciate immensely that I appreciate friendships. there There is like no time and space.
Speaker: yeah to me To me, a friendship, I mean, Trevor mentioned it. We met each other again after 18 years. you can you can You can actually, there's a little bit of an ad. TheTolkienest.com is my website website. You need to plug. you yeah Yeah, I can i definitely. So you can read it up. That's like, and you know, how I met a friend like 18 years after seeing him for the last time. You can you can read up on the article on that.
Speaker: But the point is we hugged, particularly Daniel Menhir with his, you know, superior arm strength. as oygoli Giving me a bear hug, like like squeeze me, you know, the the wind out of my lungs. Anyway, um there was no difference but between the moment two years ago and 18 years ago.
Speaker: And that's that's how friendships work for me, which I appreciate. that Because if you can't see each other, if you don't live close to each other, if you maybe even of different continents, different countries, different situations, we all have to go through all sorts of things in life.
Speaker: right but you go back and nothing has changed and that is something i truly appreciate and that's something that is really important to me personally that if i don't see someone for like half a year or a year that doesn't mean that i don't like you or i don't appreciate you or don't respect you it's hard to get around and it's hard to get around yeah and we all have you know particularly all of you when know our parents you know you've got kids Maybe there's a house involved at some point in time. You've got a mortgage. You've got jobs. You change. You move through the country. All of these things happen, but that does not mean that I need to like forget about all of this. right Reconnecting and still feeling the same way yeah' so precious in friendships. To add on to that, I think what I worry about
Speaker: obviously i think everyone worries about social media's impact on people oh shut up i can tell you things about that but i think one of the things that's concerning about that is the sense of needing to be constantly in contact yeah so like like you said we hadn't seen each other in 18 years we started up just like we hadn't you know been apart we just did it you know a few about an hour ago when you know you showed up here like it's like time never past We're right back where we were. And that's the point. Why should it? Right. but This is not transactional.
Speaker: Exactly. Friendship is something that goes beyond transaction. And I think that if you are somebody who's in a situation where you feel like a relationship, friendship is transactional, that's not a friendship. And I know I've talked to my wife about this quite a bit, that she's shared that feeling around some people in her life where she's like,
Speaker: It's only if they need something that I hear from them or if I see them, they want something out of it. And I think that part of that is also the reason I brought up the social media thing is I think that there's this pressure to be constantly in contact yeah with other people, you know?
Speaker: I don't have Snapchat or Instagram or any of those things. yeah I don't know. But like, I know many students that I teach talk about streaks on Snapchat or Instagram of like staying, getting people to look at your stuff.
Speaker: Yeah. And that I think creates a false impression of a friendship where it's like, you're detailing a version of your life, you know? Yeah, well, the thing is, actually, there's a pretty recent example of that, which is, you know, don't listen to this if you're like younger than 25 and you've got your TikTok and whatever going on. But my girlfriend and me, my fiance, me, we talk usually via Discord.
Speaker: And we did that. like I checked. You don't really easily get your data from Discord. You know you cannot download all your talks and stuff. But I have a number of things that I can do with that. And I've figured out that by now, going almost on a fourth year of relationship, we have exchanged messages on Discord equaling nine novels.
Speaker: So you've written your novels. Basically, that's what we have done. So we talked like constantly. We wrote each other. It's all about love messages and stupid gifts and you know kissy penguins and I don't why. The stuff that you do when you're love, right? okay So but what happened was a couple of weeks ago, a couple of months ago,
Speaker: She's working as a kindergartner. She's particularly specialized in early child development. So when you're like a one or two year old and you go to kindergarten, she's the one who takes care of the like the youngest child with all the children and with all their needs and and the opportunities that they get in the kindergarten. um And their manager said, no, we're going to stop social media. We're goingnna stop smartphones. You're no longer allowed to use your mobile phone during work hours.
Speaker: So they cut them off essentially of you know writing to me yeah during the day on Discord. And Trevor knows me a little bit. I'm a Cologneian. For those of you who have never been to Germany and who don't know Cologne, there is one city in all of Germany where people are chatty. They talk to you if you don't want to. They talk as much as they don't want to. If you come to Cologne, you don't want to talk, That's the wrong city. Bad choice. We just yap, yap, yap, yap. That's how we do It's a cultural thing and colonians are well known for it. So me not talking to my girlfriend, to my fiancee during the week, during work hours, was like torture. Right? Because that's what social media or Discord and other platforms that are available on your mobile phone afford to you.
Speaker: And... Essentially, what happened was we just agreed on doing a phone call on Saturdays at 11 a.m. for an hour or two, how much we feel comfortable and good with. And it perfectly works. yeah I talk for like 95% of the time. usually talk about 5% of the time because that's how the relationship works.
Speaker: um But you can do it. yeah What social media are trying to tell us is we need them and we cannot live without them. yeah And that is bullshit. yeah Because that's what, you know. late-stage capitalism wants to tell you. People telling you that me we need AI is bullshit. Same thing. Some of the stuff is incredibly useful. you Having these things and research in medicine and in in research, it's it's amazing.
Speaker: But to have that in your life is just plain bullshit because they need to get their shares up. There you go. yeah it's all It's all about addiction. Yeah. yeah um I wanted to ask you some Tolkien stuff because I've got you here. So first, I do think I want to point out, because I'm trying to remember, we met two different actors from the film when I was in Cologne the first time at the concert at the ice hockey arena.
Speaker: It was the guy who played Haldir, believe. Oh yeah, Craig Parker. Craig Parker. Yeah, you met Craig. One of the most beautiful, kindest, and funniest guys from music. And we hung out with him after too, I remember. The guy in his golden armor so everyone can shoot at them at Helmste. Thank you very much. Am I correct if were saying he's not a German actor, but he's quite popular in Germany? Oh yeah, he is. And he's gay, right? Well, kind of. Kind of. But I distinctly remember you mentioning that to me, like, watch this.
Speaker: Every girl in the room is going to be after this guy. ye And he's going to be extremely polite about it. And he's going to be charming and delight beautiful as hell. And then we got to hang out with him. And I remember him hysterically at one point, because you introduced me to him. Yeah. Somebody came up to some nice lady, came up to talk to yeah him And he was like, have you met my friend Trevor? Yeah.
Speaker: great. It was so funny. You can see him also in Hercules, I think. yes of So he's like, he's been around. yeah And he's an amazing, friendly, wonderful guy. one of the nicest people I'd ever met. Absolutely. You know, unrelated to anything he did yeah professionally. Absolutely. And then the other one we met was whoever played the Uruk-hai leader.
Speaker: Oh, Lourdes. Yeah, Lourdes. You met Lawrence Makoara, I think, is it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. huge, huge guy. And also the nicest human being on the planet. Absolutely. Who played the meanest orc in the mystery. Yeah.
Speaker: Absolutely. And the funniest guy as well. yeah um But I think what I wanted to ask you about, like so we both, I think, agree that the the the Peter Jackson original trilogy is like unassailably incredible, especially the extended editions. Don't watch the regular ones. um That's my opinion. Through that. through that But yeah, like I've re-watched them. Actually, my son has now watched the first one and a half or so. After almost four years of relationship, me and my girl Susie realized like two weeks ago We have never watched the Xtend and Gishin together. Oh! So it's happening. We just started with the fellowship. Yeah. It was the worst thing because called every fucking line. As you're watching it. Yeah, we're watching it and thought, this is the perfect woman. This is like the dream world for me because... You know, watching for all of you who know little bit about me, about the Tolkienist, I can quote lot of the stuff. Sure. You from the films, from the books, whatever. And it's hell of annoying if you meet one of those nerds who can quote every of the films and a series they love.
Speaker: But meeting someone who doesn it does it for you is like, yeah! Well, the funny thing is watching it with Caleb, but we haven' he watched it a couple years ago and we haven't gone back to it yet because he's I've been trying to...
Speaker: Get into his own interest. He's into Pokemon now. But like the only thing he found scary, because i was worried he might find it a little scary, yeah the eye of Sauron was the only thing he thought was scary, was the sound and the visual of it. So he would just skip those bits.
Speaker: He didn't think the Nazgul were scary. Yes. Because they are physical and the eye is not really physical. didn't think the shadow stuff like with the ring on was scary. yeah It was always the eye.
Speaker: yeah And I thought that was so interesting because I think that that's one of the things that Jackson got really right. was He shows you Sauron at the beginning, with armor and everything. yeah he's very intimidating. But then he's like gone. like You don't see that again. He never comes back in that form. It's always just the eye.
Speaker: And it's it is. It's scary. like He's not wrong. It's it's scary. the The fact that you you are unembodied. Yeah. and And we all understand the the symbol of the eye. Because the eye, through all the cultures, through all of human history, has the potential of seeing through you, through you into you. yeah which can be a good thing if you talk to your therapist, you know, and and that's something that you you know should be, you know, a positive thing, positive experience to you. But also you cannot hide.
Speaker: Right. There is no escape. Yeah, you can't pretend to be someone or something else. And that is that is Sauron, knowing everything. And that is very, very frightening. True. So he he watched those first bits. And then, of course, um my wife was like, are going to show him the Hobbit movies? And I said, absolutely not. Yeah.
Speaker: The first one I actually think is okay. I haven't met her yet, but she is one of my favorite persons on this planet. Thank you very much. The first one I enjoyed the first one when they did the singing scene in the book his house. The welcoming, the whole thing with the dwarves coming into Hobbiton. I thought they were actually going to do a good job. And then as it went on, it got just more and more. Look at this blue cheese. Oh, it's blue. It has to be wrong. Every Frenchman in the world like, what did you just do? It's like it's a blue cheese. Yeah.
Speaker: But I think I'm curious. You said you've watched Rings of Power. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. you were involved that. You liked it. Yeah. I was the only German influencer in the world. And I hate the word, by the way. but I was the German guy invited to all of the Amazon Prime video, like the world premiere. I was in London. I was on the first European thing in Mallorca and everything. So I was the go-to guy.
Speaker: For Germany. so I still, to the very day, too I do not understand why. And the only reason I can give you is someone put some checklist through this. Look for a German guy with a social media presence who is like Tolkien fan. Yep.
Speaker: And that's me. Yep. And that's how popped out. Yep. It was hilarious. But I'm curious. They're doing the... So, two things. One, they're going to do this, the sort the hunt for Gollum thing. Yeah.
Speaker: I'm very concerned. But Ian McKellen's attached. It's a good question, because I think... I think we can agree to everyone who, as all can find out there, Gollum or Smeagol is one of the most interesting characters in literary history.
Speaker: To see this this the switch between good and evil and bad, you can talk about all sorts of things, but that particular scene in the film trilogy, in the original one, you know the movement of Gollum and the dialogue, that scene it like that is just Oscar-worthy. It made Andy Serkis' career. It absolutely did.
Speaker: so And that's why he's still the director of the new film coming up, etc. But the thing is, Gollum as a character, as a figure in a story, is absolutely amazing. yeah To go for a film that would take this particular character and try to you know go into the story,
Speaker: theoretically speaking, is really, really good. The question is, how are they going to do it? Yeah, and and I think they leaked the idea of McKellen being attached as like a way of like, hey, it's going to be okay.
Speaker: But unfortunately, he was also in the Hobbit films, and that didn't pan out. And also famously, Ian McKellen was really devastated by that experience because it was so much green screen and everything. So I actually think, second part, the places that I've seen the most interesting, like,
Speaker: Okay, two things actually. One, I would prefer they went and different Tolkien property and did a story, one film. Don't make it a trilogy, do one film. Either take an excerpt from The Silmarillion or yeah take, um yeah what's the, the um The Unfinished Tales? The Unfinished Tales, or the the recent story that they came out with of the two Elben that was published by Christopher Tolkien, helped publish it. i i'm trying to I'm struggling with the name of it. There are so many of those, because you did quite a few books. what was what was Was it about Luthien and Baron? Luthien and Baron, yeah. Do one of those, maybe, as its own film, and don't try to keep going back to the the same trilogy. would probably actually get you more...
Speaker: See, that's one of those things where we we we mentioned nostalgia in a couple of and ah couple of minutes ago. And the thing is, going back to the stories that, let's face it, Peter Jackson and the team, Philippa Boyens, Frank Lodge, everyone involved, what they did was amazing and outstanding. There's a reason why the Return of the King won every single Oscar that it was named of, and it's that's a unique...
Speaker: achievement of this level. Not even Titanic who have the same number, not even Ben Hur had the same yeah because they had no more nominations, but it didn't. This was like all the nominations, all the wins. yeah So there is a probability this will never never happen again in film history. Almost a certainty. It is almost a certainty. like I mean, Sinners was nominated for more things. I wish they'd won more too, but hey. I'm not a horror guy, but I've heard very amazing things about It fantastic must it it was my for film of the year but absolutely so but the thing is the good thing is that you know what you're going to get which is nostalgia you know you're going to get the same style you will have to get Gandalf will look like Gandalf Ian McKellen will look like Ian McKellen but the thing is what I appreciate for example about of the Rohirrim which is an anime
Speaker: I liked that. I liked that a lot because someone tried something different. Yes. Like some really, really different just by the genre, but just by the style to have a different story is amazing. And now that we have both Andy Serkis for Hand of Gollum, you have Stephen Conber and his son going to write the stuff. Right. This is...
Speaker: I like family tradition and I like family companies, you know, run by the family and stuff. Sure. They can be really amazing and good for all the employees. It's going to be the same thing all over again. i can no longer ah listen to any circus. Yeah. Because I know the voice. Yep. I've heard it for 25 years now. nonstop Well, it's like having ah different people play a certain character over time, like Batman and as a character. what My personal favorite yeah superhero. I just like the angst around it. Yes, you know absolutely. But I enjoy watching a different version of him every time, whether it's Keaton or Kilmer or Pattinson or Bale. Watching someone else do that they would give it and seeing a different version is so much more interesting than seeing somebody try to recreate the same yeah thing again and again. Orlando Bloom with like these things in his eyes so he looks younger or whatever. yeah it just you know It doesn't work. it
Speaker: No, it doesn't. And that's not to take away from... I think, unfortunately for Bloom, because he did the Hobbit series, it detracted from how good he was in Lord the Rings. No, and he was so good in so many other films. The guy is good. That's the point. And he got almost...
Speaker: pulled back because he went and did the hobbit films again it's like i don't think that's on him he was amazing as legolas in the originals like there's a reason they picked him there's a certain parties of the covenant b movie two yeah he's done a few of those and been quite good so you know he's fun yeah but what's interesting too is that you mentioned the the war of the rover which is excellent i do genuinely think that i was really upset that it didn't do better Thank you to Warner Brothers. I'm very sorry to say that it's one of those things for all of you with a background interest in how films are actually made.
Speaker: The production company behind this, you know, in the studio like Warner Brothers, they put so many screws on the director. Yeah, yeah. That it was just not the thing that, it you know, it should have come out. So have you heard of the um Return to Moria game?
Speaker: Oh I've played it a couple times. You've played Yeah, yeah. That is an example, I think, of like, do more of this. Because like, one, they are capturing Elven camps in Moria? There are something very wrong with the game. But they but the fact that they... fun. Yeah, it's fun It's like you can go to Khazad-dûm and it's like you can walk through Khazad-dûm and you can see it. The dwarves sing when you mine together, which is like one of the most delightful things. you need to do it. You need to do it because it works. yeah Because that's what the dwarves Yeah. Like they seriously, i did the two best characters in Rings of Power are two characters that actually don't really exist in the legendarium. Oh, interesting. Which is, you know, Sofia Nonvedi is one of the best actors in the world. Yeah. going dissa How she portrays that...
Speaker: Dwarvish princess and there is another guy who plays the only real elf in the whole story yeah and you know he plays him like a young Spock and that again is like an invented character yeah around here, you know, it's like he is the Coolest elf I've seen in years and he's not he's not in talking stories Yeah, but that's because the actor because you know because he knows what he's what he's there to play Yeah, he realized and that's one of the We don't want to spend time on Rings of Power in that sense, but most of the elves in Rings of Power don't feel like elves. He does. yeah
Speaker: He is the one exception. yeah That's why I love about him and about Disa, because those two characters really carry the whole weight of the story. so the The thing I like about what Return to Moria has done, I'm still playing it, I've played it a bunch, but like...
Speaker: What I liked about it, yeah, Elven Camps, what the fuck? Those don't belong there. But it's like, yeah, you have to find, they're they're trying to do the survival crafting genre that's exploded, so it's like we have to give you different biomes. Some of the games are better than this one, yes I know. But this one's very good if you like Lord of the Rings, because A, John Rhys Davies comes in and does some voices and it's... Perfect.
Speaker: But also, like, they capture the spirit of, like, what it would be to be a dwarf. The singing, the mining, the, like, you know, finding the little... And getting back into Moria, coming back to Right, going back and trying to ah fix it.
Speaker: But also, the like, finding the leavings of the fellowship that you can find as you go through it. I don't know if you've got to that point. No, no, no, really, but I heard about it. But... The best thing that they did, and this is just like, there's certain moments, like as somebody who plays video games, like there's moments where like a game just makes you go, oh shit, they this is a like. They put that in. They they they actually pulled this off.
Speaker: So at one point I was doing a solo playthrough very early when the game came out. yeah And I'd gotten to a particular point, I don't remember, it past Khazad-dum. And I end up in a room, oh shit, there's a troll. And so now I'm fighting the troll. I've got a crossbow. I'm trying to keep my distance. yeah The thing's chasing me around.
Speaker: Well, in Moriaz and other places, there are places where sunbeams are coming through. True. oh He chases me, and as I cut back, I'm not even thinking of it, right? Because I'm not even processing. They wouldn't actually make this a thing. No, he steps into the light and and immediately turns to stone. yeah And I had to stop the game and just be like,
Speaker: like they did it. They actually did the thing. That is like the tree that Durin takes care of from his friend in the Rings of Power. That is one of those most brilliant moments you will ever see. found an actual thing cling 20 years he has been working on this. He's made this possible. He made the lights, the water, everything. And you know his wife, obviously, he's taking care of this all the time. He's really annoying because that tree is actually something we don't do. We're right now. Because dwarves and stuff. But that's one of those moments where they go, someone understood the message that Tolkien was trying to send on so many different levels. So it's so difficult to go through adaptations all of these last 20 years without going also into different media. Like for example, Rotor de Moura as a game.
Speaker: Early on, you thought, my god, what is this going to happen? What they going to Yeah, the second they announce it, you think, how are they going to mess this up, right? And I'm not saying that that's a perfect game. Well, particularly with Gollum. The Gollum game was a disaster. No, I was there. I met the people who did the whole thing. Yeah, I went there. had the press release. I was there in Hamburg, in Germany. And the thing is, nobody has yet realized that the film Hunt for Gollum exactly the game. Oh, I figured it was. I did actually think that's what it was going to be. And that's the point.
Speaker: Because the story of Lord of the Rings, Gollum, the game, is fantastic. they had the story figured out mechanisms are absolute, utter crap. yeah Horrible. I mean, yeah that was the review when it came out. was just like, it's not playable. No, it's not playable. No, no, no. But the story is, if you can understand, for all of you who work in these, you know, sort of like surroundings,
Speaker: Middle management in Barad-Dur is an article that needs to be written based on the game. It is middle management about the guys who run the Tower of Sauron. Yeah, I would love to read it. Yeah, let's go there. Even in the extended versions, you get the hints of all the different hierarchies of orcs, trolls. Who's doing what? The mouth of Sauron that appears. No, I don't have the key to Lalar. You have to go, good luck. She's got that in the key. I don't Did you ever dabble in
Speaker: the um the other sort of major explosion? There were two of the games that were made ah for... Shadows of Mordor. Shadows of Mordor. I was struggling to remember. dabbled in that. mortar I dabbled in that. But the thing is... Very repetitive, I found it. No, the thing is, the game is quite an excellent game yeah if you like it. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: If that's your type of game. Right. It's the perfect thing. The Nemesis system. That's really cool. That's very cool. This absolutely exceptional. And again, have mentioned Warner Brothers before. In this game, it's not Warner Brothers Discovery, but Warner Brothers Entertainment Gaming. Sure.
Speaker: They patented it. I know. And so now you can only get it. So nobody can play it. Nobody can develop a game based on the system. So that is so bad for all the gaming community. Because it was such an innovative idea. It was absolutely brilliant. But it is absolutely counterintuitive. It's opposite to what Tolkien wrote. Oh, for sure. Because it's just pure sadism.
Speaker: yeah that is you can You can get 60 arc captains together, yep mind meld them, yeahp and a attack anything like that. And that is something that Tolkien would not even have considered yeah in his rite of dreams. But the game was great. The one creation of the game that did it did do that, that violated Tolkien's intent. But...
Speaker: if I'm recalling correctly, because I didn't finish the game, but I read a lot about it, essentially you discover the protagonist is in fact the bad guy by the end of it, I believe. So there's that bit. Keller Brimbor comes to do a second one ring. Do you realize the line, second one ring? A bit counterintuitive. I'm sorry. You know, my English is not my first language, but it doesn't really make any sense in any given language. But we should say, because I don't, like, for those who don't know, the nemesis system was this idea that basically you would fight like an orc mini-boss. They're kind of mini-bosses, I guess. In a sense. A leader. Captains. Yeah, or captains. And if you defeated them.
Speaker: You could mind-meld all of them together to give them orders, and they would work on your behalf. Right. You could control them to do what you want to. But also there was the feature where if you defeated one, they would come back and they would remember the way in which they were defeated and they would have counters to it now. Yeah. Which is like such an incredibly interesting game mechanic that, like you said, Warner Brothers Entertainment then just shat all over by not making it usable by anyone else because they patented it and oh nobody's going to pay for no and most and and that particular mean like uh monolith studios who did the game has been disbanded oh yeah like so so essentially like the companies yeah yeah yeah yeah companies that had the experience and the the knowledge they don't exist anymore so one of us is not going to use it they they trademarked penitent all those things where you make it unavailable to anyone else just so you they don't make money with it right and that is not really the most creative way of going about the war No, and unfortunately, it's you know it's the same thing that we got around to with the making the Hunt for Gollum, which I have to say, I know I said that i'm I'm deeply concerned and i don't think it's going to be good. I hope it's good. I actually hope it's good. No, that is my friend, you know one of my friends, one of my best mates in Germany, Zeppel, Sebastian.
Speaker: Shout out to our German podcast, yes which is called Small Talk. It's a pun, obviously, on Small Talk. Yeah. with a T-O-L-K. You don't say. Which is absolutely absurd. Genius German humor. It took us two years on Google because Google always told anyone were looking for small talk. That was a stupid idea. The thing is he's in marketing. He said, Marcel, we're not going use the name. He said, no, we're going to use the name. It's too clever.
Speaker: Anyway, the the thing is, we have done these things on our podcast at times, talking about, you know, for example, Lord of the Rings, Gollum and all the other and things. and wherever you go, realizing that some company takes away a path, an avenue of exploration, of creativity yeah hurts everyone. even the company that has the rights to it. They're not making any money with a system because they have disbanded the studio that knew about it.
Speaker: All the other studios have too much pressure going on anyway. Don't ask anyone the gaming industry how tough it is. yeah yeah So that's not going to happen. And until the patent goes away, well, you know, we're not going to get the diagnosis anymore.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah it's it's unfortunate because, like, again, like I said, i'm I'm concerned about the fact that they're trying to do this again. if it were me, if you gave me the power, I'd be like, let's go pick a different Tolkien, like, yeah mythology to flesh out and make something interesting, like Celebrimboror. Not filling the corners, but do something different. Yeah, like do something like, go do something different with a different cast that has no attachment to the old one so that there's no expectation yeah and and let it be its own thing.
Speaker: Having said all of that, I want The Hunt for Gollum to be good. See, you know that's one of those wonderful 360 degrees things that we can do because friendship is a huge experience for this whole cast, for the whole production company. they've got the tattoos, the original cast. and their bonds. The Hobbits are still are like, I don't know, a WhatsApp group or whatever, a single group. What's it? Dominic Monaghan and what's his name? perryt ah billy boy Billy Boyd. Billy Boyd have their podcasts that they went around with. Sure. They are still meeting up. They're still friends. like They're still together. Yeah. Whenever they're like on the convention and they've been more than then they meet up, they go to restaurant, have food together. They are friends for life yeah through this particular experience.
Speaker: They meet up as often as possible. yeah And that is part of the experience that the Tolkien community in the wider sense, the Middle-earth community has, that friendships grow from this cultural experience. well and I think for me, what it was always the lesson of Lord of the Rings was, yes, there's the idea of like, maybe the ring is addiction, maybe it's over the... But like, ultimately their lesson is like,
Speaker: if you have other people there, you can get through anything. yeah right And like I know that Sam and Frodo are the big examples of that. But for me, my favorite was always Gimli and Legolas. Because the thing that always brings me to tears in the book yeah is the ending where Legolas comes to Gimli is like, why don't you come with me to the Grey Havens? yeah You should come with me. the exception to the rule. You are the exception to the rule. Yeah. Because only the elves get to go yeah slash the Valar slash maybe Frodo because his sacrifice. But no, you, Gimli, son of Glon, get to go because of who you were and because I care. Like, wrecks me every time I read it. But that's the thing that is... and And I know there are people who are purists who have a problem with the sort of jokingness of their of their relationship in the films. Sure. But I'm sorry.
Speaker: John Rhys Davies and Orlando Bloom do perfectly. And it's probably Bloom's best performance. You want to get me a box? The way that Bloom just looks at him and he's like, shall describe it to you? It gets you a box. And the way that Gimli's look is like, I like the laugh. It's like, his kind of humor. They understood the joke, right? And even like, for those who haven't seen the extended versions, please do, because at the end of Helm's Deep, when ah He asks Legolas how many he's killed and he's like 47 or 46. he says, he's like, well, that's not bad for a pointy-eared Elven princeling, but I myself am sitting pretty on 43. And then he shoots the orc and he's like, he says, that doesn't cut that doesn't count. It's like, it's it wouldn't work.
Speaker: It would not work if if those two actors weren't so good at portraying these are two people who like busting each other's balls, but would absolutely run through hell and back to save the other one. Which actually did, obviously, in the story, yeah. Right, and like it allows you to be a little more playful, a little funnier, to go away from the source material in terms of the pure text and like just tell the story in a way that's fun. My son gets a hoot out of those scenes because they're funny and accessible. If you keep it to Tolkien, my only criticism I ever have Tolkien, his ah occasionally overwrought prose,
Speaker: It doesn't always come through. I'm pretty sure that John Rhys-Davies mentioning the nervous system on that particular one was one of those ad lib things that he came up and shoot him in the Or a menu, boys. Which is a constantly saying, how do the orcs know what a menu is? It's like, fair. You're right. But also turn that off for a second and just enjoy how well this portrays the spirit of the thing. Which is an incredibly difficult needle to thread.
Speaker: yeah But like the thing that made Jackson's stuff work, that makes Lord of the Rings work as a whole is if you stick to the core values of what the thing is, like friendship, like being there for other people, like sacrificing yourself for the greater good of others, not because of what you will get out of it. If you are invested in those things,
Speaker: get away with a lot. Definitely. you know Yeah, yeah. And I think because it was such a unique experience, I mean, they did the three of films more or less in in one shot, and you know, did some extra stuff. Was it one or two years that they spent filming it? You see, that's that's the thing, because today you couldn't do it like this and Well, has anyone ever done anything like this since? Like, I don't think. Well, there were other films that, you know, put a lot of people together, but I think the very fact that they were in New Zealand,
Speaker: Which is, you know if you're in Hollywood, it's one thing. If you do some things in you know in the studios in London and the areas around it, one thing. But because it was so far away and the ors and from influence and you all stuck together on like, you know, I mean, Sean asked sean um going the bar and we are going up the mountain because John Bean was afraid of flying in a helicopter. So he walked up in costume. yeah So that's the thing that just welded them together. yeah And that I appreciate because that is, you know, it's a job.
Speaker: people need to realize that being an actor is a job. So you go to the next one and go to the next one. Some of the experience is nice. Some are okay. Some are shit. But seeing how those people who were with this original film trilogy, how they work with each other to this very day, not just from in front of the camera, but the people behind the camera, everyone who's involved in the creative parts of this. Well, it could have turned into one of the greatest film horror stories of all time, right? Because it's what, a nine month, a 12 month, whatever, however long the shoot was, I don't remember. But whatever it was, far beyond what any film had ever done before, because they're going three at once. And yet they didn't eat each other alive. No, one thing, and the thing is, was, you know, John Howe and Anna Lee, for example, had mentioned that if you go there and they had to start pre-production, obviously, earlier than the actual shooting. So some people were involved in there moving to New Zealand for years, essentially. Yeah, to get everything set up advance. And that was one of the things, for example, why Ted Naismith, who's one of the large, you know, the biggest three illustrators of all of Middle Earth, he couldn't do it at the time.
Speaker: That's why you couldn't go there. yeah And that is, I'm still working on that article on the people who wouldn't do Middle Earth because it was too far away or too long. yeah Like, you know, John Connery being one of those names. yeah And the thing is, either they didn't understand it or...
Speaker: They asked you, essentially, you have to leave wherever you are for the next two years right and live in like in a tiny country yes yeah far away from... i mean, New York has doubled the number of inhabitants than New Zealand, right? Or three times. I don't know. Something crazy. Yeah. yeah yeah so And you have to go away and live in a different country and be away from family, from friends, everything that you know and that you are, but you need to do it for because this is the best project ever. Yeah. And some of them were, I think, just like, yes, of course. like you know christo i'm gonna do Christopher Lee was like, yes, done. Yes. so yeahp He was a bit miffed that he was Salomon instead of not Gandalf.
Speaker: He mentioned that on the very first day they went to have dinner together. to I mean, they knew each other, obviously, yeah because they yeah because they were like they were actors of quality from the UK. so And he mentioned that on the very first dinner Ian McKellen saying,
Speaker: I should have been Gandalf. You should have been Gandalf. And they were best friends ever. i The funniest thing is i love when you talk to like the guys who played the Hobbits. like They talk about Christopher Lee as like, oh, he's terrifying. And also the sweetest man you've ever met. Absolutely. He was so kind to everybody. yeah But also, he's Christopher Lee. like you know The famous story of like him telling Peter Jackson what it actually sounds like when you stab somebody. It's like, okay. okay yeah We'll take it from there. We'll take it, Christopher. Yes. Thank you. But like I just... the it could have it should not have worked like flat out like a project like that should not have worked and everything involved in this was against modern capitalists production company whatever and and how peter jackson got picked and still managed to be the one that did the project now beginning to end what i'm looking forward to is the shadow of the past because let's face it yeah peter jackson is a horror
Speaker: guy Yes. It's not my genre. I shit my pants in every horror movie, but that's the other point. For for anyone who hasn't seen... Shit of the past, yeah all of this is horror. Yeah, for anyone who hasn't seen Peter Jackson's original like filmography, him being selected for Lothar Rings was a really big deal because nothing he'd done before that had any resemblance to anything like that. Nothing.
Speaker: Unless you were a film nerd and understood how well he worked a camera and set scenes up and told a story, in which case you go... Yeah, he's got it in him. But even then, it's a huge gamble. But you're right, him doing something horror. Like Barrow Whites, the Old Black Willow, all these things. He's going crush it. That is going to be horrendous. All of this. If he's allowed to play, and I'd like to hope that he'll get Guillermo del Toro to come in and work with him because they're so tight. It would be great to get him back to do it. And a different style, like aesthetic. Well, you've got to let Guillermo do practical effects.
Speaker: yeah Like if you've seen Hellboy, which I think both of these Hellboys are the two best ones. The new one, I could i don't care. um Yeah, sure. And like Pan's Labyrinth, which is one of the best films made in the last 20 years. like The world would be a different place if Guillermo del Toro had done The Hobbit. I promise you. Trump would have been president. I agree. That is the line I'm saying. That's the line I'm saying. Things would have been different on a world level. For those who aren't aware, Guillermo del Toro was originally tapped to do it and then he got worn out essentially from like... Yeah, because of the discussions with the companies involved. He was fighting so many people on the production side. It took so long. And Jackson jumped in basically to kind of make sure it got across the line. And it saved it for New Zealand as an economy for the people working there. Which is the reason why, as much as I don't like The Hobbit films because there are many problems with them, I'm glad they got made because he did basically bail out New Zealand's economy by doing them. That's a long story to that. It's a long story. But to be clear, it was ultimately a net positive those got made. I do think because I think he saved a lot of jobs and a lot of livelihoods for a lot of people. is an important thing obviously to everyone working you know if you ever meet anyone like peter jackson richard from without a workshop no way to workshop they have they have to make jobs work for the people in the country and you may not forget that new zealand is a very very small country very small it's a very small and that was a massive amount of their economy tied into that film and if that film did not happen it would have been devastating absolutely yeah
Speaker: Well, I think we've about reached the end the podcast. We've started rambling on random things. Ha! But that's fine. um It's all about friendship, isn't it? It is. Absolutely. that' So if you want to message the podcast, you can reach us at Ithinkyoushouldpod at gmail.com with suggestions for topics. You can find me on Blue Sky and any other place on the internet as VultureX21 or Trevor H. Paul.
Speaker: Marcel, where can they find you? You can hook me up on thetolkenist.com or with my crowdfunding experiences and like 600 posts right now on steady.page at thetolkenist and basically thetolkenist on any social media platform like Instagram, Facebook, Blue Sky and stuff.
Speaker: He will email you long dissertations about Tolkien if you want that in your life. It might happen. You don't have to. if You don't have to. Well, thank you for doing this. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. We're going to go drink more waters.
Speaker: Absolutely. We're not drinking anything else, obviously. not obviously. Right, goodbye.
