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The One With The First Female Drummer of the Crossmen image

The One With The First Female Drummer of the Crossmen

S2 E15 · On A Water Break
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418 Plays10 months ago

This week we continue Women’s History Month with an incredible roundtable discussion with the first three drummers of the Corpsmen Drum and Bugle Corps Gisele, Georgia, & Dawn. Our guest on the sidelines with us this week is bass drummer, Anne Turner. All this, News, and more on this week’s episode of On A Water Break!

Guest Clinician:

Gisele Cadieux

Georgia Siriani

Dawn Lewis - @DLDmakeup

Guest Host:

Anne Turner - @anne.saber

Meet our Hosts

Jackie Brown - @spintronixguard

Stephen McCarrick - @stephenmccarick

Cindy Barry - @leandermomma

Nicole Younger - @o2bnpjs & @thecookoutcg

Trevor Bailey - @t_pain151

Trish O’Shea - @trishdish1002

Beth Beccone - @bether7189

Chris Rutt - @wildhornbrass1

Cynthia Bernard - @cynthiabern

Ashlee Amos - @famousamossss_

Theo Harrison - @harrisontheo07

Stephanie Click - @stephanieclick

Whitney Stone - @dancerwhit

Justin Surface - @J_dex07

Ashley Tran - @itsashleytran

Jack Goudreau - @goudreau_

Bill Woodward - @remoking100

Emily Nee - @tch.makes.art

Ricardo Robinson-Shinall - @ricardorrobinson

Callie Quire - @cnquire

Music provided by leydamusic.com Follow him @josh.leyda

Avatars provided by @tch.makes.art

Featuring

Lexi Duda - Host for On A Water Break In Rhinestones - The Stories of the Twirlers @lexi_duda

Thank you also to @guardcloset

#marchingband #colorguard #dci #podcast #onawaterbreak #wgi #drumline

Recommended
Transcript

Introduction & Guest Highlights

00:00:02
Speaker
Hey everyone, we are back for another week of exciting rehearsals. This week we have a huge interview with some incredible women who were the first drummers on the legendary Crossman Drumline. We also have Anne Turner, who's a recent Blue Devils and RCC age out as our guest host. We will find out what made Jack say...
00:00:25
Speaker
If I saw a kid march up in sneakers and in full uniform, I'd be getting like black duct tape and covering those shoes. I'm pretty really close in that regard. And why Ricardo said. Okay, but Stephen, listen. So we said, Whitney said, you're the straight boys of the marching arts. Now listen, all of my straight friends, whenever they're designing their costume, they come to me and ask me for those final polishing tips before they go out there. So we know that we can do better.
00:00:55
Speaker
All this and more, so get out on the field and we will see you back on the sidelines for this week's episode of On A Water Break. Eight off the Met and go.

Podcast Overview & Special Focus

00:01:06
Speaker
Welcome to On A Water Break. The podcast where we talk everything marching arts. Everyone bring it in. It's time for a water break.
00:01:22
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of season two of On a Water Break, the podcast where we talk about everything you and your friends are talking about at rehearsal on a water break. I'm Jackie Brown. This week, we have another action-packed episode. We continue our celebration of Women's History Month with a roundtable of some truly incredible women. Woody and I got to sit down with Giselle Caddo, Dawn Lewis, and Georgia Beth
00:01:50
Speaker
Full bone. We also have a guest host this week, Ann Turner, to talk about a movie that she has done and what it's like being a female in some of the best drum lines in the country. But first, let's see who's on the sidelines this week.

Debates & Discussions

00:02:07
Speaker
Steven, the word is that you and Jim had intense conversation about shoes.
00:02:15
Speaker
It was heated. It was actually really heated. Let the cat out of the bag a little bit, I guess, for our what are we doing later. But I want to bring this one back up and get all your opinions because I think I'm right and I think Jeremy's wrong, but we'll see.
00:02:29
Speaker
Oh, we shall see. Oh, I know we I know we all have some opinions about shoes in this activity. I'm just saying. Ricardo is back tonight, which Ricardo and you and I haven't even got to be on an episode together. So I love you and I'm so excited. I'm so glad to be with you, Jack and everybody else and my old roomie Whitney over there. I am so excited to be here with everybody tonight.
00:02:56
Speaker
So you were part of the WGI regional recap last week. How did that go? Well, so the recap was awesome. The shade afterward from friends that were like, oh, you didn't mention my show. That was not great.
00:03:14
Speaker
But you know, I told everybody, listen, I love many, many shows and there were not enough hours to record the podcast to talk about how many shows I actually did like. So if I did not talk about your show last week, it does not mean that I did not like your show. It just meant that I was only allowed to talk about so many so that we can keep the thing moving. So sorry, girl, sorry, don't be mad.

Health & Personal Achievements

00:03:39
Speaker
I know. How's everybody doing tonight? Doing good. Groovy. Good. Awesome. Good. Finally good. I've been sick, so.
00:03:51
Speaker
I'm a little under the weather myself, whoever last week chased me when they were like, are you getting sick? I'm like, no, no, no, I feel fine. But I'm okay, I'm okay. Jack, I heard your interview with Colleen Wilson was fantastic. Yeah, so this week I had the opportunity on March 4th, I think I'm nothing better to do. I had to interview one of my mentors in the area of Scottish drumming, doing one of her few woman work.
00:04:31
Speaker
Emily, how is your winter season going? What's a winter season? Someone explain this to me.
00:04:41
Speaker
My, um, non marching band related winter season is going very well, although band things are starting to kick up finally in my, uh, sports pet band. Yes, that exists here. We have sports pet bands. Sports pet band is fun. I remember thinking like there's nothing better than like playing bottom bass drum and like a fall athletic band for like the hockey team in college. Just like standing around, I'm being loud. Everybody's excited about it.
00:05:11
Speaker
Correct. Yeah, I'm all about that type of stuff. Emily, I forgot what instrument you play. Oh, so there's been a slight development than that. So I started playing baritone because I was bored of the flute, but then I'd been upgraded to Sousa phone. So that's going to be interesting. Oh, wow. Climbing up the ladder.
00:05:31
Speaker
Whitney, hello. Well, we are gonna talk about the WGI regional later, but I am so, so glad you're here. I think we're all glad you're here. Hi, everybody. I'm so excited to be here. I have not been on in a while, so, yes, winter season is happening, and it's more like ending the last are happening. I had my last cut rehearsal last night, so, yeah, it's winding down. It's not enough time to finish cleaning all the things, though. No.
00:06:02
Speaker
It's true. Okay, she has been yelling at the bass drums all rehearsal, so let's get our guest host in here. Please welcome Ann Turner. Hi, Ann. Hi, guys.

Anne Turner's Hollywood Experience

00:06:13
Speaker
Now, you were on one of our performance spotlights last year with Steven, but I think maybe our audience might still want to do a little 32-count vibes, too. I think there's always time for 32-counts. You ready, Ann?
00:06:31
Speaker
I'm so ready. You'll get eaten in off the map. So, hey guys, I'm Anne. I played bass drum all of my seasons during marching. I started in 2017 and I've done lots of ensembles. I've done Carolina gold, alchemy, shadow, Boston crown, aged out of blue doubles, RCC and George Mason. And right now I'm enjoying the aged out life just as in
00:06:59
Speaker
educator doing some sound and audio, teaching some bass drum. And soon I'm going to get into judging this fall season for the local circuit. Super excited. And movie star kind of leaving out some other activities you've been getting into.
00:07:16
Speaker
I am accredited actress, so I have an IMDB page if anybody wants to. Whoa, that's crazy. So that's cool. Why don't you tell us a little bit? Obviously, we're talking to lots of successful like women in the marching arts this month and just trying to hear about your stories and sort of how you got to do all the different things that you got to do. You've been a part of so many different drum lines. How do you break into doing drum line in the movies?
00:07:44
Speaker
Um, it was actually a really one-off experience. So I was spending, you know, a little bit too much time scrolling on the gram. And there was a Blue Devils, a Boston alumni, Alex Blake, who posted on his story. He was like, Hey, any SoCal drummers free for an audition on Wednesday? And I'm like, I'm a drummer. I'm in SoCal and I'm free on Wednesday. So I checked all those boxes and I sent him a message.
00:08:12
Speaker
And then I went down to the Amazon studios for a little audition, played some super easy beats, did like a quick little dance block, and then waited a couple of days. And eventually I got an email saying, Hey, you've been selected to be in this movie drum line. And so we spent about
00:08:30
Speaker
Spent about a month on set for a movie called Candy Cane Lane. It's on Amazon Prime. It's an Eddie Murphy Christmas movie. And we did a little drumline battle scene, which is super fun. It was me and a bunch of old blue doubles, drummers. One of them was my quad tech at RCC. And my boyfriend Daniel got to be in the movie with me too, which is super fun. Really weird hours.
00:08:53
Speaker
It was overnight shoots because the scene we were doing was outside and it was a night scene. So we're on set from the hours of 4 p.m. to 6 in the morning. So tensions would get a little high from the 2 to 6 a.m. range. But overall, it's a super cool experience. We got to go to center stage studios and work with Rich and Tone, like a super amazing choreographer who's worked with Michael Jackson to kind of put together a full drumline scene. And it was a pretty, pretty fun experience.
00:09:22
Speaker
That's crazy. So how involved was the actual scene compared to doing marching band as you know? What are some differences between performing and acting drumline?
00:09:37
Speaker
Yeah, so performing drumline or any marching band things in media, I now understand why so many people have a semi-negative understanding of what we do just based off of our representation in the media, because most people working on the film sets
00:09:55
Speaker
also have no idea what we do. We all wore gloves. The entire marching band was in gloves, including the battery. And we're all like, hey, man, we don't really wear gloves. And they tried to make a string basis to wear gloves, too. And so there's just little details like that that you scratch your head at. But as far as the involvement in the movie, our Drum on Battle got some snip snippage in the post-production.
00:10:24
Speaker
So not quite as long of a scene as I had hoped for, because it was honestly really cool. The choreography and stuff was awesome. But you can see me in there a couple times. You've got to pause some frames. But anytime you see a bass drum on screen, that's probably me. And it's pretty cool to be able to watch a movie and be like, hey, that's me. I know that person.
00:10:48
Speaker
Yeah, or to think back to like, I always think back to like being a freshman in marching band and think about all the different drum corps I did. But I like to think back to when you were a freshman and then like see yourself in California on an Eddie Murphy video, like movie set. Like that's pretty crazy. That's a whole journey. And you've had a whole journey just yourself, like getting from starting in Carolina Gold and working through a whole lot of different ensembles.
00:11:19
Speaker
So maybe anything you would say from your experience, it's obviously there's not as many women involved in Drumline as there are men.

Anne Turner's Challenges & Goals

00:11:29
Speaker
So you've probably had a lot of different experience being sort of a bit of a lone wolf in the different ensembles that you've been a part of.
00:11:38
Speaker
What would you say is there anything that was difficult or anything that you think is unique to being a woman in drumline that you've come across across your years?
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it definitely comes with its own set of difficulties to being the only person on a field at any given time with a life story and experiences that relate to you. I don't think I've actually had a woman instructor as far as battery specific goes.
00:12:14
Speaker
Actually, there was one time that we had someone fill in at Mason for one, one block. Yeah. So that was the one time I've had someone in front of me who also was a woman. And so it can be a little isolating, you know, just being on a field and just being like, Oh, yeah, that's up a lot of men. The one thing that really stuck with me was
00:12:37
Speaker
Obviously, I started marching back in 2015. So from 2015 all the way up to 2024, there's been some pretty significant changes from how the activity operates and little things popping out here or there that some people are like, hey, maybe that's not good. We should change it. But when I was starting to audition for Drum Corps, I was lucky enough to have an instructor in high school.
00:13:05
Speaker
Forrest and Meghan, who had both barched Phantom and Cavaliers. It was really nice to kind of see someone do it and be like, oh, I can go do that too. But I remember he told me before I started auditioning for Drum Corps is to be careful where I audition because some places will cut me just on the fact that I'm a woman. And that was, you know, kind of difficult to hear.
00:13:28
Speaker
Luckily, I don't think I ended up auditioning anywhere that I felt disadvantaged just because of who I am. It was very nice to be able to go through the audition process and feel like I had a fair shot.
00:13:43
Speaker
You know, things you experience are just the way you hear maybe some of the guys in your section talk about other members, like specifically color guard women that you're just kind of like, Hey, like, that's not super cool. Maybe we don't talk about, you know, our fellow members that way.
00:13:58
Speaker
Yeah, wow, that's interesting. And I never really had considered the education side of it either, that not only would you not be really marching necessarily with many other women, but you also wouldn't really be being taught by women as well.
00:14:16
Speaker
It's kind of remarkable that there aren't more. You're starting to break into teaching more now, though, and judging as well, I guess. Yeah, what do you think are some of your goals as you get into teaching now? Now that you're aged out, what would you like to accomplish more as a tech?
00:14:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, definitely just increasing the base drum knowledge that's out there and just being the most effective drum instructor. I can be, you know, period man or woman. It's all about just being able to get
00:14:50
Speaker
concise information out there and really be able to get your point across and as few as words as possible so that the kids can get the reps, but then you also have to be able to break down things in like three, four, five different ways because one teaching style is going to work for one person and another teaching style is going to work for someone else.
00:15:07
Speaker
And I've already noticed just a positive reaction from members, especially other women in just the percussion ensembles that I've taught because most of them are like, you are the first woman that I have been around from an instructor standpoint, like either
00:15:26
Speaker
On the audio standpoint, just being a woman in audio, there's also a limited number of us. And then on the bass drum side, I'm most people's first instructor who is a woman. So a lot of people will come up to me after the season and just be like, hey, it was super awesome to have you on staff because I felt like we shared a similar experience. So it makes me really happy to hear that I can also help just create a more positive member experience and something that's just more inclusive by having someone that looks like you on the field.
00:16:01
Speaker
Great job, everyone. Set your equipment down. Gush and go. All right, let's do our gush and goes. Trish, why don't you start us off?
00:16:11
Speaker
Okay, so this week, my high school team's getting ready to hit the road again. They have a show this weekend. My independent team had a show last weekend, which was their first show in a while, and they got through it. That was the big breaking news. They got through it. Didn't matter what the score was, didn't matter any of that. So we're really excited about that.
00:16:36
Speaker
So, and I mean, I could talk more about this next week

Research & Personal Projects

00:16:40
Speaker
as it gets closer, but the high school team as it will be at the East power regional next Saturday. And I'm super excited about that. So all good stuff happening here. Emily, what would you like to guess about?
00:16:52
Speaker
Ah, yes. So I'm currently in grad school for something completely unrelated to band. But you know, being a band nerd, I have to make everything about band. So for my class, I had to do like a research proposal. And I'm just like perfect opportunity to make this about band. So basically, TLDR, I'm wrapping up a research proposal about
00:17:14
Speaker
exploration of experiences of LGBTQ band members and how the band space can potentially serve as a safe space. And so that has been my hyper-fixation for the past. I love it. Oh my gosh, you are out here doing God's work, my dear. For listeners who can't see, Emily is stabbing.
00:17:40
Speaker
Oh my gosh, we'll put that on video. We have a YouTube channel now. Oh dear. Anyway. Steven, what do you want to gush about?
00:17:53
Speaker
Yeah, I've been removed from my band life for the last week because I've been moving. So I don't have anything band related to talk about, but this whole room behind me is going to be like absolutely full of instruments. You probably can like see some of them out the corner of the frame, but two drum sets, like six guitars, a bass, plenty of amps, like three keyboards. So I'm just really excited to like
00:18:19
Speaker
get out of marching a little bit and just do some regular old music now that I have this nice space here. So I got you next week for real band. But for today, I'm stuck in real life because rock bands somehow are not real bands. What? I'll get you with my my drum line that I'm normally stuck on. But there we go. Ricardo, you want to go on about?

Marching Achievements & Moves

00:18:48
Speaker
You know, I am getting to the end of the season. So this weekend is my group's last regular season competition in the FFCC. And then I get a weekend off from band because I'm going into theater world for State Thespian Festival, which is always a blast to get to do some acting and dancing in that sense. And then there'll be championship time before you know it.
00:19:12
Speaker
It's so soon, I was just saying earlier. It feels like it's been the shortest season ever. It has been the shortest season and this is like, there's never enough time to clean and I feel like Joan Crawford in that scene. I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the dirt.
00:19:33
Speaker
Jack, what would you like to gush and go on about? All right, so I had an action-packed weekend. Also, by the way, my hype major roommate, he's playing bagpipes right now, so if you hear that in the background, that's that. So this weekend was the start of our competitive season for the Scottish drum majoring competition world. It was held in Phoenix, so it was the Phoenix Championship.
00:19:53
Speaker
And so I flew out on Thursday, competed Saturday and Sunday for the championship. And I won first placement. So I was able to take that home this weekend. And then on March 4th, I interviewed Colleen. So it was just back to back this weekend. So I'm excited to see where the season will take us solo competitors. It was a really nice showing at Phoenix. So yeah.
00:20:19
Speaker
That's awesome. That's really cool, actually. But one thing I was curious on there, the Scottish Drum Major Championship is in Phoenix, Arizona.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah, so that's the first regional championship for Western United States Pipe Band Association. So we have Phoenix. And then we go to the Bay Area. And then I'm actually looking to compete internationally this year at the Worlds and the European Championships called in Glasgow and the United Kingdom. That's awesome. Yeah. Congratulations. Nice.
00:20:55
Speaker
And you see how we structure our gush and go situation. So is there anything you would like to gush and go on about going on in your marching band life? Much like Steven, I also just moved. So I was hanging out at home for a little bit in Wilmington, North Carolina. I just moved to Richmond, Virginia. They're kind of getting settled up here as far as teaching goes.
00:21:21
Speaker
kind of been taking it a little bit on the backseat which is nice because my first winter off after seven seasons of consecutively having my weekends just booked up for months and months and months so it's been really nice to have some weekends back so I've been able to kind of travel a little bit more to different high schools and just be able to clinic and
00:21:43
Speaker
It's been really nice just getting to pepper some base term knowledge around at different high schools. And I also just wanted to shout out Ralph Nader and Emily Soder. I don't know if you guys have been to a benefit counter recently, but they got to do like a huge
00:22:01
Speaker
marketing campaign with benefit like the eyebrow makeup. And so if you go to a benefit counter like a CVS or something, you might see their faces on a big benefit advertisement. So you're doing cool things. That's crazy. That's crazy. I might have to talk to you if you know Ralph Nader because I'm trying to get Ralph Nader in here someday. That would be crazy.
00:22:28
Speaker
Yeah, Ralph's a cool dude. They had like three foot long 3D printed like makeup brushes that they were drumming with. So it was pretty cool. Unfortunately, they didn't get to keep them because apparently there's like a thousand dollars a piece to print these giant eyebrow pencils. But they look pretty cool. It is funny to think, though, like, what are they going to do with that after they're done letting Ralph Nader drum with them? They need them back.
00:22:56
Speaker
We could auction it off the charity or something. I hope, yeah, that would be a good use. Maybe stake a vampire with it. You never know. Yeah. Whitney, what would you like to gush and go on about this week? It has been a quick season, but I am ready for a break. Also, we just had the Austin Regional, and that has caused me to need all kinds of things. But I think maybe we'll talk about that later. I don't know.
00:23:27
Speaker
Yeah. That group chat was just going off and going off. I know. I stopped teaching class to go read the group chat because it was so juicy. I did. I hope my principal's not listening to this. I wasn't on my phone, I promise.
00:23:45
Speaker
So I need to gush about two color guards in particular who are Spintronics, have learned and have some association with Spintronics and they both went to a WGI regional recently.
00:24:04
Speaker
First off, the Hilldale Crimson Vanguard Color Guard went to their first ever WGI regional. They came in fourth in their class and their director, Angel Clark, is a Spentronics instructor and she has done such a great job with this program. They have come so far and I'm so proud of them and like, yeah, I'm just looking forward to them continuing this trend because they have a lot of potential and a good program behind them.
00:24:32
Speaker
And then Kim Anderson is another instructor who we have worked with and she teaches the Mid View Can in our five school district here in Missouri. And they went to their second ever
00:24:45
Speaker
WGI regional and they got second and they were like this close the first and this was their second only second time doing a WGI regional so these you know these small school guards are are showing up and they're doing some cool stuff so I'm really proud of them and seriously any anybody who has done anything with spintronics I try to keep up with you guys on social media and see what y'all are up to so
00:25:15
Speaker
send me stuff. If I didn't see it and like it, then that means I probably just didn't see it. But I love seeing all of our instructors and programs get success at different levels. Hey, it's called Gush and Go, not Gush and Stay. Let's go.
00:25:38
Speaker
So before we go into our commercial, Jack, I just have to ask you because you said there was something you wanted to share that Colleen said when you interviewed her the other day. So why don't you kind of like set that up for us? Yeah. So Colleen Wilson is a well-known Western United States drum major competitor in the drum major solo competitions for the Scottish flourishing.
00:26:01
Speaker
and she has been an awesome mentor to me and especially in a male-dominated space of Scottish drum majoring. Her perspective, her wisdom, and her lived experience is extremely valuable in being able to look to the future and see a space where art form can continue to include more people. I had an awesome interview with her and she got to talk about
00:26:27
Speaker
about how we can bring in more individuals into our art form to be a more inclusive space for Scottish drum majoring. And with the advent of recent Scottish world champions being women, I see the ball is beginning to roll in the right direction here. So let's take a listen at her perspective. So I was the first female drum major in my high school in the late 70s. And it was
00:26:58
Speaker
To me, it wasn't a question of, can I do it? I was going to do it. And I didn't care if somebody was going to say, girls aren't supposed to do that. No one ever said that to me. But I think, and certainly, that is not going to happen now because women are being included in so many more things. So I really would like to encourage
00:27:21
Speaker
young women in even in elementary school. I've worked with some secondary school kids and one girl in particular who unfortunately didn't continue, but she gave it a shot. But I really would encourage high school girls. This is not a guys thing. And flourishing, leading leadership skills, women have leadership skills.
00:27:46
Speaker
and you need to take those skills and add your marching into it, add your drum majoring into it, go to camps, go to competitions, and just grow yourself as a woman in this art form because we need more women. I don't like being the only woman out there, and every time there's a little girl that comes by and I'll hand her my mason, I'll say, you know what? You can do this. You can do this. Did you think that was cool? You can do this too.
00:28:15
Speaker
Yeah, so she is just such a gem and her perspective is so awesome. And as instructors of this art form looking to the future, one of my responsibilities I feel like is to make sure that we bring that inclusivity into these leadership positions because the best leaders and the best group of leaders always have different perspectives and have different lived experiences. And I think that's what makes Colleen and so many others such a gem to our art form.
00:28:44
Speaker
Okay,

Trailblazing Women Percussionists

00:28:45
Speaker
everybody. Steven, you must be so excited because the amount of drummers that we have at the rehearsal right now. I can't believe how much we've talked about bass drumming tonight. It's insane.
00:28:55
Speaker
Keep it going next week. You and Anne take the bass drums. Woody and I are going to go grab Giselle, Dawn and Georgia, and we are going to clean the heck out of those snares. We'll be right back after this historic interview with these legends of the drumming world.
00:29:28
Speaker
Hey everyone, it's Jeremy, and here are your announcements coming from the box. You wanna drink up on a water break lost in translation with Cynthia Bernard, uncover the glitz and glamour of twirlers with on a water break in rhinestones hosted by Lexi Duda, get the insider scoop from the stands with on a water break from the stands with Cindy Berry, aka Leander Mama, and join the band family in on a water break family style with Stephanie Klik, plus much, much more to come.
00:29:58
Speaker
Make sure to follow us on social media at onawaterbreak for all the latest updates and bonus content. Got something to share or a burning question? Email us at onawaterbreakpodcastatgmail.com. So don't be the person that doesn't tell their friends about a water break. Make sure everyone stays hydrated. Okay, field staff, take it away. Let's reset.
00:30:32
Speaker
Hey guys, welcome back to the sideline. I am hanging out here with Woody. How are you, Woody? I am fantastic tonight, Jackie. I'm loving life right now. I am so excited that you assembled this beautiful panel of clinicians tonight.
00:30:50
Speaker
because like, okay, you know me, I'm all about the women's history, and we are talking to some incredible female percussionists. I'm not gonna claim to know anything about percussion as a guard girl, but yeah, I wanna go ahead and introduce them. This is Giselle Cadu. Hi, how are you? Great, how are you? I'm doing good. Dawn Lewis. Hello.
00:31:17
Speaker
And Georgia Sirianni, hi. Hello. Oh, I'm so excited to talk to you guys. I feel like I'm in a game show. So, yeah, I mean, some of the sound effects make it pretty exciting. Woody, can I ask you first, how do you know these lovely women here before us?
00:31:39
Speaker
Well, I tell you, it's kind of funny how this all got going. And in one of our episodes, we were talking about someone mentioned Georgia Beth. And I said, hey, I know Georgia Beth. Now,
00:31:53
Speaker
As far as I was concerned, I thought she was the very first woman snare drummer in The Crossman. And I said, I'll call Georgia. We'll talk to just her. I called Georgia. She's like, oh, no, no, no. Time out. I am not number one. As a matter of fact, there are two more of us. I'm like, the hell you say?
00:32:15
Speaker
And so I got, she put me in touch with these ladies. As a matter of fact, when I kind of talked to a couple other people out on the street that this was coming, they were like, did you get Dawn? I was like, Dawn who? And then Dr. Beth tells me about her. I mean, I'm sorry, ladies. I mean, I should have known, but you know. This is why we're doing this. It is why we're doing it.
00:32:43
Speaker
During my era, Georgia Beth was a big thing. It was like, they have a girl in the crosswind snare line. Yeah, it's huge. It was huge. And then she tells me before her, there was Gisele. I'm like, what? I have to meet her. And then I guess when they mentioned you, Dawn, it then came to me. Are you one of Terrell's?
00:33:11
Speaker
students. Yes, I do. I knew the names sound familiar and I remember people mentioning your name and him together and then it just all clicked. So this is very exciting for me tonight Jackie. I'm excited too. I absolutely love that you were able to pull this all together Woody and I appreciate you guys for making time in your schedule to do this. We have to start with our
00:33:41
Speaker
traditional way of starting all of our interviews. And that is with the 32 count life story. Giselle, would you be okay with going first? Yeah, sure. Okay, so for our listeners who haven't, who don't know how this works, we're basically just going to give you eight off the bet. And then you have 32 counts, which comes out to about 30 seconds to tell us anything pertinent to
00:34:09
Speaker
your life story, what we might like to discuss in the marching arts, or if you just want to tell us like, you know, when you were born, that's cool too. Okay. All right. I guess.
00:34:26
Speaker
All right, go. Okay, so born French Canadian, took her and raised in Montreal. I started following the drum corps. I was six years old when my sister was marching in all of our corps. And then I joined the same all girl corps at 15. We're probably going to talk about that later. I met my husband through drum corps when teaching.
00:34:48
Speaker
I married, moved to South Africa, lived there for seven years, played percussion there, and subbed that orchestra there. Then when I came back, I found a new calling, and then I got involved again when my kids started marching. Yeah, that's about it. I think I'm done, right? Oh my gosh, yes. You are a world traveler. That's amazing. Love it.
00:35:14
Speaker
Okay, I have so many questions now, but let's go ahead and do Dawn. Would you like to do the next one? Yeah, I'll do the next one. Now that I know about it. And Georgia, I can see, I'm getting excited. Are you ready? I'm going. Okay, so I'll start off when I started playing snare drum at all. I was in middle school.
00:35:39
Speaker
And my brother was my first teacher, and I went and saw him at the high school. And Luda Luca was in the snare line, and she marched in the crossman.
00:35:52
Speaker
She was a female snare drummer, her hands looked so cool, and she did all these cool visuals, and I was like, I wanna do that. And then their teacher, George Sullivan, who marched in the New York Skyliners and took me to my first practice, he took me to see the Skyliners, and I was like, I wanna do that. And two years later, I was the first female snare drummer in the New York Skyliners. In 1991, I was 16. Wow, wow, oh my gosh, what a trailblazer.
00:36:20
Speaker
and the world comes together for me again. Okay. You know me, Woody, and I know you. All these creations, right? Right, right. I was a little girl, so. The pieces are coming together, all right. Forgive me, I'm elderly. It's okay, Woody. Okay, we got one more. Georgia. Oh boy. Are you ready? I guess so. All right, let's make this happen.
00:36:51
Speaker
Alright, Jersey Girl, born and bred. Started out my musical career actually on flute. Played flute until high school. I changed to the drums.
00:37:02
Speaker
on a whim. I actually wanted to play saxophone but I couldn't find a used saxophone so I ended up buying her a drum pen and started my journey. I played snare for three years in high school. Found drum corps on PBS and really wanted to do it but didn't know how to get to it and when I went to high college at Westchester University of course I was surrounded by a bunch of drum corps people and
00:37:28
Speaker
by my junior year I was ready and I went and tried out for Crossman and second girl in the snare line there and then when I finished that up I ended up a couple years out and then heard about the bushwhackers got dragged to the open house and six years at the bushwhackers in the snare line so wow six years of drum corps and one corps oh my gosh
00:37:55
Speaker
You're young people. Talk about it. My daughter's a color guard. She did 10. See, that's the way you're supposed to roll, right? Right? Yeah. No, she's done. You don't leave. So all three of you marched crossmen? Yes. What was it about the crossmen that sort of made the environment more
00:38:26
Speaker
accepting, I guess, of female drummers? Well, okay. So for me, I wanted to audition for Vanguard, but they were not allowing female drummers to audition at Vanguard. We could not even audition. So then being in the East Coast, I looked through East Coast chorus and wrote a few, but then Crossman seemed to me to be the better choice in terms of
00:38:55
Speaker
the style of playing back then. And I just, I just wrote. I mean, I came from an old girl's core. To me, a girl's neurodrummer was a normal thing. I didn't even think of, I'm going to be the first one. I didn't think of any of that. So, but, um, cross-minded staff, you know, like the, the, the people, I don't know, I just liked their style of playing and I wanted to stay on the East coast when, you know, I'm going to go all the way to California has to be where, for the core I want to be in, but yeah. So.
00:39:24
Speaker
But they were welcoming, they were fine, they were good. In the end, poor guys.
00:39:30
Speaker
Yeah, I had a similar, I actually wanted to try out for the cadets because I was Jersey girl. So, uh, but I heard that they did not take girls in the snare line. And so I was at Westchester at the time and Crossman were out of Westchester. So I went to rehearsals at West, Westchester to the Crossman. And I actually did have some pushback from some of the guys in the line. They were not happy, but you know,
00:39:59
Speaker
Thurston gave me the chance, and I did it, and I'm glad I did. Who gave you the chance, Thurston? Yep. Oh, so he was my snare leader. He was my line meter. No, he was in charge of the line when I marched. So that's probably why you got the chance, Georgia. But Mike was sending me my audition for Crossman. Yeah, so you can tell. The ones who wanted you there and the ones who didn't. Exactly. Yeah, it's pretty intimidating.
00:40:29
Speaker
when you see a woman who can play as well as you, I guess. I don't know. And it's weird, just like you said.
00:40:36
Speaker
Like Giselle said, for me, it didn't seem like it was a weird thing for a girl to be going out for the snare line. When I was in high school, there was another girl on the snare line. I never had anybody look at me weird like, oh, why is there a girl in the drum line? It just didn't seem weird. And even when I went to college and I was with a lot of drum corps guys, Tom Unks was there teaching the line when I started in freshman year and didn't
00:41:02
Speaker
It wasn't a problem. It didn't seem weird until I went to the Crossman and I got that pushback and heard, you know, cadets don't take girls in the snare line. It was just weird. Yeah, that's yeah. Yep. That's where you've heard all your life. Girls being drummers is no big deal. Girls being snares is no big deal. You know, and if you're a guy who's heard all his life, no girls can't drum, then
00:41:26
Speaker
You know, I'm sure their world got shook up by having you ladies on the line with them. That's how that t-shirt was born, you know? Like, girls play drums. Get over it. Right? Don, what was the draw for you?
00:41:44
Speaker
Well, I actually did try out for cadets, and I was with the cadets all winter long, and this was 1995, the year I ended up marching with the Bushwhackers with Georgia. We have marched together.
00:42:00
Speaker
Yes, they kept me all winter long at cadets and I was pulled out of a room many times, isolated and I heard many things were said and one of them was, I was too small, probably can't do it. I'm a distraction. That was one. And so they cut me.
00:42:24
Speaker
right before it was time to like get warm outside. And I remembered Mark coming on the bus when I marched in the Skyliners when I was just a kid and saying, hey, you know, you could play, you should come try out for the Crossmen. And so I said, well, am I allowed to cruise? I'm not going to do it.
00:42:42
Speaker
I said, let me go take markup on that offer. And so I did, I went to the Crossman and I can tell you honestly, as a female who I did put my neck out there knowing full well I wasn't welcome at the cadets, that was one of the reasons I went there. I just wanted to, I was like, I'm gonna go. And I did, I learned. Look at the others, yes.
00:43:11
Speaker
That's kind of my thing. I like to stir pots and ruffle feathers. And so I went and they did cut me and they did tell me to come back. Willie Higgins did tell me to return the following year, but I was like, I think I'll pass. And I'm glad that I did. In hindsight, I did exactly what I should do. I did exactly the right thing. And you know, Mark has a way of, and all the staff,
00:43:36
Speaker
They just have a way of making you release fear and play to your full potential. And that's why I love the Crossman. Pretty cool, that's the name of that description. He was like that as a leader as well. I don't know about you, Georgia and Don, but when I auditioned, so first of all, I auditioned at a time when the Crossman drumline was really strong.
00:44:03
Speaker
That line, the percussion line that I played in, the Crossman, was basically the same as 1980. And that was like two years later. That was in 82. And so there were only two spots open on the snare line. The bass line was already full. They've been playing for two seasons already. And there was like two spots open on the tenor. It was very few. So that was very, very strong. But you're right, Dawn. We had to audition in front of everybody.
00:44:32
Speaker
And that was very intimidating, but they had a way like the, and they counted a lot on Mark and Rob Robinson at the time, cause Rob had come back from Blue Devils for, from his one year at Blue Devils. And, and you know, like Tom, Adam and Chris Thompson, they were very good at making you feel at ease. Like just show us what you can do. Be sound. I didn't have any piece prepared.
00:44:57
Speaker
I mean, I'm telling you, I had nothing prepared. I went in for, and I, oh, oh, and I didn't speak English. And so I went in front, I just said, just ask me things. Yeah, I don't know. But so, but they were, they were very, yeah, you know, that's, that's, I think that's what gave me confidence into just going forward and just pushing through it. Definitely. So the people, the guys who were not quite agreeing with me being there eventually,
00:45:28
Speaker
They, you know, like Mark and these people made it so that, oh, okay, that they would shine, they would make me shine some of the things that it was strong with. So the guys who did not accept that could see and hear, oh, okay. You know, they- She's got chops.
00:45:46
Speaker
He's got chops and I could march very well. And back then, chops meant more like in terms of endurance of playing, like we would walk around the field and roll, walk around the field and do singles, walk around the field and do things like that. And so I could march very well. And we were on the field that was very bad. So I could absorb a lot of the things. So my roles were always so nice and consistent.
00:46:13
Speaker
And, you know, so that was, that's what, I think that's what made me be accepted by everybody. Like, oh, okay, respect. So that's good. Fine. Now we can move on with the season. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that was my experience for it. But yeah, Don, you're right about that. So, pretty. All right. All right. That's gonna have to be cut out, huh? That did this.
00:46:41
Speaker
I love in the conversation. Giselle, what year did you march Crosswind? 82. And I marched Shadowlands for seven years before that. You are Shoshana, girl. I sure am. Oh, man. That was the jam. Yeah. Yeah. That drum line was the one. Yes.
00:47:06
Speaker
Crazy. Yeah. Why March Blackwatch? So obviously, I've seen you a lot. I've seen you a lot. And that was a good year for the East Coast. Yes. Everybody was good in drums. Everybody. Yes. Yeah. Very true. Very true. Very true. How about you? Dawn, when did you March Crossman? 1996. 96. It was Mark Thurston's last year with the Crossman.
00:47:34
Speaker
Well, on the East Coast anyway. So the Birdland, the Birdland, the big drum opener that everybody loves. To this day, I still play it all the time. I like to make sure I can still play it. I am a true drum corps person. I know exactly what you're talking about.
00:48:00
Speaker
I might end up being the next historian or something. I don't know. Cool. I wouldn't want to ask you, Woody. And Georgia Beth, what year did you march? 87. 87, okay. Oh, your host is Twinkie. What? Was that the Spanish year? 87? No. That's 85. 85. Summertime, Rumble. Oh, you play Rumble? Yes.
00:48:28
Speaker
Ooh, I don't know what you felt. Oh, Rumble versus Shoshanna. I don't know. I don't know. What did you play for drum solo there, Dawn? Oh, we had an opening. What are you talking about? It's the first thing that happened. I played the opener as a drum solo, Woody. As a drum solo, yes. Yes, I do remember that. I always felt like
00:48:53
Speaker
The drum line opened up the show with so much energy, the core could never get that back again. Yeah, the show was heavy Mark Thurston's last year. It was definitely a statement piece, I think. Yeah. I mean, he does write crazy beats anyways, right? Yeah. Yeah, it was a super percussive book, I would say. It was definitely a signature, signature Thurston goodbye. It was awesome.
00:49:23
Speaker
Yes, it was an awesome drum solo. Awesome. So first off, before I go into my list of questions here for these ladies, you have anything else, Jackie? Well, I was just going to start asking some of the stuff about what it's like to be on tour with these groups, you know, being, I mean, in particular, but
00:49:47
Speaker
what's it like? Like being the only girl, you know, for myself, I was only ever on co-ed color guards and, and I couldn't imagine basically. Yeah. Um, it was definitely different for, for us. I mean, I, I mean, obviously we, we did everything that guys did as far as we drummed on our pads for most of the trip until you passed out, you know,
00:50:13
Speaker
We all change. What does it do, right? We all change. I drum all the time. I mean, I still drum all the time. I have an obsessive personality and I drum every day to this day, you know? Oh, God, push your heart. Yeah, I'm preparing for...
00:50:29
Speaker
for our 50th anniversary, you might've heard about, but I can't tell you much about it, but you know, I'm prepared for that. Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. What he's got it on his list. You know, I got the shirt on, you know, I figured you guys might figure something out, but yeah, I can't tell you any details about it, but I've been practicing for over a year because I have personal goals, honestly, so.
00:50:52
Speaker
We both, we're both doing it, so, and so I have the occasion to meet- Oh, you're doing it, Joe? Yes, exactly, as well. I wish, I wish Georgie was doing it. Ah! Yes, now's the time of the money. I know, I get it, I get it. Life is, life- Or I would be there. Life can be cruel. Yes, yes. Yeah, we're doing it, we're, the best of us are doing it, which is cool. First and third, baby.
00:51:22
Speaker
So you guys rode the bus with the guys? You had to stay in the same gym with the guys? My seat partner was a guy. I did. I slept in the same seat. My seat partner was in the snare line. You didn't have that. Yeah. I did two tours. My seat partner was always another snare drummer.
00:51:45
Speaker
I did what snare drummers did. I was always with the snare line. I never was not with the snare line. I was always with the snare line doing everything the snare line does except when we travel. I was in the color guard bus.
00:51:59
Speaker
Oh no. Really? Yes, I was in the Color Guard bus for tour and I had to beg to be in the drumline bus going to shows so that we could, you know, like you drum and you, you know, you prep and you whatever. So I had to beg for at least that part to be in the drum bus. But no, at Color Guard, it was crazy. It was like, yeah, great.
00:52:28
Speaker
Yeah, how do you get that? That provides some like limitations for you as far as like disseminating information that you needed for your section and stuff like that. Did you ever feel like you're behind the guys in that regard?
00:52:40
Speaker
Well, Jackie, I'll tell you, I felt like I was behind all the time because I did not speak English. Well, yeah, okay. That's amazing. It was just, to me, it's just like, it was just writing to the shows. I needed to
00:52:58
Speaker
to be able to feel the togetherness of the line. And we were very close. So at least they allowed that. And from the moment they allowed that, that was it was better, you know, but I mean, yeah, otherwise it's just color guard bus. And then some I mean, and, you know, again, you have also this confrontation with the girlfriends and the, you know, so some of the girls were really nice and happy to see me there. Some of the girls were like, hey,
00:53:27
Speaker
you know like don't don't i mean one girl even said don't don't talk to my boyfriend during rehearsal and i'm like seriously giselle were a lot of your friends color guard like a lot of your friends were in the color guard or
00:53:44
Speaker
Would you consider that you were born? Well, I had friends in the color guard. I mean, some of my roommates, when we went, because I moved in in February. So some of my roommates were color guard girls in the winter, you know. But I mean, in the summer, I was friends with guys and girls in the horn line, color guard. But the drone line, the snare line was really very close. We hung out a lot.
00:54:14
Speaker
Yeah, we hung out a lot. How about you, Georgia? Georgia, what was it like for you? I did not ride the drum bus either. I was on the mixed bus, horns, guard, you name it. And I did have a guy's seat partner. But I never really missed being on the drum bus. I really did.
00:54:37
Speaker
because again there were some of the guys that I did not like the fact that I was in the line so I kind of you know stayed away from them but um you know they would do stuff like uh rehearse in the men's room at facilities just to you know bug me but it really didn't do shit I'm like I don't care you know I really don't care but uh yeah no it
00:55:04
Speaker
Your experiences were very different than mine in those aspects. And also it's kind of funny because it kind of gives the essence of the core that season. You know, like if the guys are trying to isolate you as opposed to when I was there, I mean, we were focused. We were a good drama and we had goals. And so we, you know, being together was important and we worked hard together and we helped each other. It's kind of
00:55:32
Speaker
You know, it's funny. You march with some of the leading arrangers in the activity for a lot of years. I mean, you march with a lot of guys who shaped the activity for what it is now. So, I mean, you know, I know the people that Georgia marched with and that's a whole different group of people. Like they were just regular drum corps people. You march with like,
00:56:04
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah. And some of these people were staffed. They were young. They were coming out. They were like, he's one of the most incredible writers in the activity. Yeah. You're very lucky. Very fortunate. Oh, I know. I know. Believe me. No, say some of these names because seriously, like every time you say a name, I feel like I'm even recognizing them and I'm not a percussionist at all. So my, my staff was Tom Annam and Chris Thompson. So Tom, you know,
00:56:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, most of them. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:56:35
Speaker
Tom Annam was headed at Boston University. You have to correct me, because I don't know all the names, so I don't follow all the American stuff. So these are two big names. And one person wasn't mommy, Rob Robinson, who won the individual championship for years. I was in my line. Ken Sherry became a judge at one point. Jim Dwyer is still involved in the activity and is still... Yes.
00:57:00
Speaker
judging today, he was on the line with me. Who else can I think of? I don't know if the other guys were really involved, but I know that some of them are still band directors that are pretty fluent and stuff. So yeah, a lot of these people, and some of these people, you know, went to cadets and make, you know, when that line became- And made it what it is, yeah. Yeah. A lot of those guys left Crossman and went to the cadet thing, and then that's when the cadets blew up.
00:57:30
Speaker
Oh, sorry. That's in Garfield. That's in Garfield. That's in Garfield. He's people, Bob Morrison, all these people. Yeah, it's Bob Morrison. Look at him. You march with some kings of DCI percussion. Yeah, I know. I know. It's crazy. When I see this now, I'm like, oh, my goodness. Amazing. Oh, my goodness. He is a bum. I was better than him.
00:58:01
Speaker
But it speaks to the seriousness of the line, the focus of the drumline that year. It really does represent how we worked. So we only have a few minutes left and one of the things I'm really interested to get your guys' input on is how you kind of look at the activity now and do you feel
00:58:30
Speaker
like trailblazer for this or do you feel like this was just inevitable or like what are what are some of your feelings as you kind of see the women in the activity now and how you know they can integrate and be you know we've even had like all male drum corps that have become co-ed now so what are kind of your thoughts on that as we as we're moving forward in in what drum corps has become?
00:58:57
Speaker
Well, I'll just say, honestly, I never thought of what I was doing when I was doing it. Not one time. I really was just focusing on becoming the best drummer I could possibly be and overcoming
00:59:15
Speaker
challenges that I had. I'm five foot one. I'm a hundred pounds soaking wet. A drum is like 40 pounds. So to look at me when anyone would say, oh, you've marched drunk or yeah. Oh, you're in the color guard. I'm like, no, I'm in the snare line. You know, everybody always thought I was, you know, that's what I was doing. So no, to look at me. Yeah. You think I spent a flag, but no, I'm a snare drummer. You know, that's my alter ego. That's what I do. I love that.
00:59:44
Speaker
When I see women today, I honestly just, if I had to be honest, what I do is I just stare at them. I don't even watch anybody else playing because I'm just so enamored by any woman who can overcome all of the ego that could come with being around a bunch of guys who are trying to, you know, beat you out of a spot. And for them, it's like, God,
01:00:11
Speaker
I can't have a girl beat me, you know? But for me, it's like, I'm just earning my spot, just like everybody else. So in the moment, I never thought about what I was actually doing. But now when I watch and I see all these women doing it, I'm like, wow, that's so cool because there was a time I was the only one.
01:00:36
Speaker
And nobody else was around. I just, I just love seeing it. And again, I stare at their pretty hands. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, women's hands always look good.
01:00:58
Speaker
In all my years of playing and watching the activity grow, I'm always amazed. First off, I have my name for it. I call it Chicks with Chops. I have promoted it forever, forever, forever. But when I talked to the Jersey Sir, the thing that made me fall in love with having girls in the line is that they have more stones than the men, especially by female tenor players.
01:01:26
Speaker
Guy was back hurt. The lady, she would not even even take the phone off her back. I forget she got her period too. Shit. Come on now. Come on now. Come on. You guys it's true though. Yeah. Yeah. I can play those while I'm bleeding, sir. All right. What are you crying about?
01:01:54
Speaker
It was one of the best things ever. And I'll tell you Jackie, I know you're a color guard person, but snare drummers are very egotistical. They're probably a lot like rifles. Oh my gosh.
01:02:08
Speaker
It's funny, there's the equivalent. It's so true. Probably. Yeah, that would be the color guard equivalent. Yes. They are deep. Snare drummers are deavers. And they don't like anybody stepping in their spot. They don't like it. They don't like it. You know, that's the only type of drummer I never dated was a snare drummer. Oh. Lucky. That's the only type of drummer. Oops, sorry.
01:02:36
Speaker
Okay, so last question before we go. What are you guys up to now? And we'll just kind of go from each person to each person. What are you up to now? And if our followers, if our listeners want to follow you on social media, do you have a social media that you could share with them that they could kind of keep up with what you're doing?
01:02:53
Speaker
All right, okay, so while I'm involved in the activity, founded the drumline circuit here in Quebec, and I'm doing the 50th anniversary for Crossman, so that's good.
01:03:08
Speaker
Also, speaking of Women's History Month, part of a group of five, actually four snare drummers, ladies snare drummers, we are the only four that march finals in 82. And we got together as friends, we met and we played a solo back then.
01:03:27
Speaker
And there's videos on YouTube. It's called Chicks with Sticks. And it's a girl from Blue Devils, a girl from Phantom, a girl from Freelancers and me. And we're just friends and we get together and we drum. And from time to time, there's a little video coming out. So if people want to check that, I'm sure they can, I mean, you have to be careful with the name, but there's a page on
01:03:52
Speaker
We're not extremely active. It's really, really just friends. But we have a beautiful story. And I think on YouTube, you can find that story. We played at some drum festival at one point with the strikers in Chicago. And they pulled out the story. It came from one picture that Kelly took at finals. And years later, we just found each other, all the people from this picture. And we were the fourth.
01:04:19
Speaker
I've actually worked five of us, but one of them, one of us we couldn't find for the picture. But we got together all these four ladies. It's amazing. Friends to this day, so. Well, you send me the link to that. I will make sure we get that linked up on our episode. We have to do that though, Jackie. That's a must. And Georgia, what are you up to?
01:04:41
Speaker
Uh, actually I am not around the activity much at all anymore. Uh, after I left Bushwhackers in 95, I actually started riding a motorcycle and I was spending all my time into that. So the only girl in a, you know, sport bike world with guys didn't like that either. So one thing to another, but yeah, so I was doing that for a while and, uh,
01:05:09
Speaker
now, you know, just kind of just hanging out. But now that I've done this thing, I've started listening to some Dorm Corps again, and I'm definitely going to go check out the Alumni Corps at Allentown. So do it. We'll see. And I'm just saying, I missed the Blue Stars 50th Anniversary Corps also, but I'm doing the 60th Anniversary Corps. So it could still happen in the future. You never know.
01:05:37
Speaker
Never know, but yeah, this year is out for me, but I will go support them and go check out their rehearsal during Allentown, so. You just want to go drink in the park. Stop with that. No, I want to hang out with you in the park. Well, then you want to go drink in the park. Jackie, have you ever been to the park in Allentown? Nope. Oh, sister, you are missing.
01:06:05
Speaker
an East Coast gym. That's for on a water break after dark. That's a different episode. Don, what are you up to? No, no. And it's a really big gathering of drone corp. It's a big social thing. Like you never even make it in. You pay $100 for your ticket. Oh my God. I didn't even buy a ticket. It's that much fun. Okay, Don, what are you up to these days? So I am doing the alumni corps. I didn't mention that, but
01:06:35
Speaker
Currently, I own my own business. Maybe you can see my sign, but it says donlouisdesigns.com and my Instagram is at dldmakeup. I am a makeup artist and I'm an aesthetician, so I do facials. I do makeup. I do special effects makeup, so you could check my Instagram out. If you scroll down, I haven't had a lot of time, but I do eyelash extensions. I do detailed stuff, but I am
01:06:59
Speaker
I do that for a living, so I'm an artiste and I love it. I take care of people and I bang on drums. It's awesome.
01:07:06
Speaker
And so for anybody who's just listening and can't see you, I want to say I've been admiring your makeup for the entire interview. I love it. It's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I practice a lot. And so that's at DLD Makeup Design? It's just, Instagram is at dldmakeup. That's it. And the website is dawnluisdesigns.com.
01:07:31
Speaker
Beautiful. Well, I'm going to come follow you right after this, too. As you place the eardrum. I will follow you right back.
01:07:40
Speaker
Well, that is all the time we have for today for our amazing panel. Oh my gosh, this has been so much fun. Thank you guys again so much for coming and lending us part of your time. This I'm just I'm just in awe of you so much more even now that I want to be started. It's great. Thank you guys go follow them. And yeah, we need to get back out on the field because I think we have some laps to do for being late here.
01:08:23
Speaker
Hey, this is Christine Reem and Chris Green.
01:08:27
Speaker
Guard Closet was founded as a consignment business in 2000. Since then, it has grown to include Winter Guard, band, percussion, and other genres. We can help you with custom flag and costuming designs. Our consignment inventory has plenty of great looks for your color guard, drum line, and marching band. Pay it forward. When you purchase consignment, you help other programs. Last year, we sold over 400 sets of consignments and returned over $125,000 in payments to our consigners for their skills.
01:08:57
Speaker
Additionally, Guard Closet offers custom and pre-designed costumes, flags, floors, and formal wear, full or partial showwriting, educational programming, and other services. Max out your rehearsal time and set up a microsite for easy student ordering for shoes, gloves, and other equipment. The Guard Closet team is here to help you get everything you want and need for your season. Check us out at guardcloset.com and follow us on social media.
01:09:39
Speaker
Y'all, oh my gosh, that interview was epic. Oh, just the history and everything, like all of the background and just everything with these women. I am blown away. I never get this excited talking about drummers. I'm just saying it was amazing. And you know, and you're here, you have a connection with one of the lovely ladies who's on our panel.
01:10:08
Speaker
Yeah, so Giselle was actually a volunteer at Crown for a good bit in 2019. Her daughter Jazz is on the color guard. So she spent a lot of time on tour with us and it was super cool just getting to talk to her and get to know her as literally one of the first women to drum in DCI ever. She had a whole bunch of stories and it was just super awesome getting to hear her experiences and also to kind of have
01:10:35
Speaker
you know, a tour mom over the summer. And she definitely enjoyed hanging out with the battery and talking to us. And she, you know, made sure everyone was doing okay. And it's crazy too. Cause she still has chops. Like I remember Giselle would come up and like chop out with the crown snare line in 2019 at like in spring training and she would like hang better than rookies on the snare line. It was crazy. Love her.
01:11:03
Speaker
I know jazz. So that's, that's an exciting connection, but crown. How do you know jazz? Oh, is it from crown stuff? Okay. All right. Yeah, that makes sense. It's like there's six degrees of separation in the marching arts. I think it's like three degrees of separation or something. Really? Yeah. I think two, if you've ever been on the honor of water break podcast, it's one.
01:11:33
Speaker
Whitney, when were you associated with Crown? I marched 2003 through 2007, but I do a lot of alumni stuff now and organizing and all kinds of connections with the current members. One of my students was marching Crown in their garden. It's fun.
01:11:56
Speaker
I love it. Well, we are going to hop over to our newest segment once again. Basically, if you haven't heard this yet, this is where we go off against something that is bugging us in the marching arts world. We call it, what are we doing? So, Steven, what are we doing? I'll never get tired of that Trish sample.
01:12:26
Speaker
What are we doing? I didn't even know we had the sound ready for it now. I'm dying. Well, Steven, you need to start this one off because I think we're all going to have some strong opinions on your point this week.
01:12:45
Speaker
Yeah. So I was talking with Jeremy a bunch this week and we came down on different sides of the aisle. So this one is what are we doing with these percussion groups wearing just sneakers, just regular sneakers that don't necessarily have anything to do with the uniform. I.
01:13:06
Speaker
I don't hate it. Jeremy and some other folks that are a little bit more, you know, visually inclined or more into the uniform design think that percussion groups need to take way more risks and should be even if not risky, you should do something that is more coordinated to the uniform than just wearing, you know, a pair of Nikes.
01:13:27
Speaker
But OK, so I think there's more to this one. Go ahead. So first of all, you have to complete the look with anything that you are doing. And if you give me this gorgeous costume or this cool thing and you put on some raggedy sneakers that don't even like if they're not even the right color family, whatever. No, no. What are we doing? Match your shoes to your show.
01:13:55
Speaker
The designer agrees here, artist here. I always have to make sure my characters are matching shoes, like side thing. I do mock uniform designs for fun. So yes, Ricardo, I must absolutely match the shoes to the outfit instead of just putting like, here you go, have some uggs. And listen, for those of you who are out there in the world and like, oh, we don't know where to find shoes, girl, get on Amazon. Amazon got some cute stickers that are great.
01:14:25
Speaker
Oh, Amazon for everything. Guard closet. Guard closet. I mean, but no, there's options out there where you can match your costumes with shoes that are more appropriate. Even if you want to stay in the sneaker world, I mean, get sneakers that match. It can help you out with that.
01:14:49
Speaker
Yes. Is this now a direct result of y'all fellas wearing suits with sneakers? Is this like, is this like a slippery slope now? Yes. Okay. So for an instructional perspective though, like if I saw a kid march up in sneakers and in full uniform, I'd be getting like black duct tape and covering those shoes. I'm pretty real close to that.
01:15:15
Speaker
If it's not looking uniform, it's not going on for performance. I think that's my question. I need clarity on. Are they wearing like, are they going in like all purchasing the exact same pair of shoes? Oh, certainly. Certainly. Yes. Okay. So that's certainly it's part of the uniform purchased by the ensemble. But so then why not just buy shoes that match the uniform? I have a better idea.
01:15:43
Speaker
I have a better idea. Let me spell this one out a little bit because just so everyone knows, a lot of the percussion groups will wear the same regular pair of like black Nike shoes that are straight black all the way through and aren't maybe taking any.
01:15:57
Speaker
effort to necessarily coordinate in a more risky or exact way to the uniform. But my devil's advocate, because I kind of think it's okay. I come from the percussion world. I don't think that any drummers are really, I don't think we really care.
01:16:16
Speaker
That's what I think the drumline side would tell you. I would tell you that I think a lot of the time it's wearing something that's comfortable, that's relatively affordable, that isn't a dramatic not fit for the uniform. I very rarely see something that's dramatically wrong.
01:16:36
Speaker
I think that that's it. Sit down, sit down, sit down. No one is playing devil's advocate. I can't sit here and allow you guys to trash. Sit down drummer boy. Listen, listen. I fully support and 1000% understand Stevens and the drummer's world.
01:16:59
Speaker
Dilemma. I get it. Okay, here's the thing. Here's the perspective that Jeremy and only Jeremy is able to give. This is not being obnoxious. It's just I'm the only willing. I'm the only one in the manufacturing world willing to say it to everybody else.
01:17:17
Speaker
I don't think there's anybody in the sales world. I can look at everybody on this call right now and say, do you know somebody in the manufacturing world of marching arts? Do you know someone that makes the shoes or prints the flags or builds the sabers or anything like that? Most of you are going to say no, and that's legitimate. You don't know who those people are. I'm saying from Steven's standpoint, no one has addressed the drumline shoe.
01:17:46
Speaker
They have not addressed it. It has not been brought up as a thing. What happened was in like the early 2000s, drummers were like, and this is what he will tell you because as Ricardo learned, Woody is one of the instrumental people in moving movement into the drummer's world.
01:18:04
Speaker
Right? Woody, like literally not even kidding, Woody and Stephanie Click, who is also a host on that. Stephanie Click is the one that introduced movement into Music City Mystique and Woody brought movement into the Northeast in terms of drum lines. We are on the cutting edge with our on a water break host, but they they introduced it. But then the manufacturers never said, oh, the drummers need a shoe that works with that.
01:18:32
Speaker
They're doing different movement in drumline than we're doing in the color guard world. Those turns and those pivots and the drill that they're doing, they can't do that in bare feet. You can't do that in a slipper. You can't do that in a jazz shoe. You need something with rubber, turn, go, whatever, and it needs to be flexible. It needs to be able to move. And manufacturers haven't touched it with a 10-foot pole now.
01:19:00
Speaker
That being said, these sneakers with the white stripe... No. No. Can be solved in a multitude of ways. One, as Jack said, that stuff would be taped up in like 2.3 seconds to be black. The bottom of your uniform, if you have a unitart, ombre that into black so that I get it a long line.
01:19:23
Speaker
give me one black long line. Mickey Mouse wears black shoes with black leggings so he make him look tall. Minnie Mouse wears black leggings with red shoes to make her look shorter. They're the same size, but that's what it is. Okay, gotta go, bye. Mickey and Minnie. Nail on the coffin on that one.
01:19:49
Speaker
I'm just glad that WGI groups have moved away from wearing like drill masters on the floor. So I think it's at least better that we're all in sneakers and not wearing our outdoor marching band shoes on the indoor floor because I will see some floor high school group every season sliding around their indoor tarp because they're wearing some shoes meant for grass.
01:20:14
Speaker
So everyone gets at least one point for going to tomorrow. Listen, I am here for the athletic shoe. I understand the fact that we have to make sure that we are supporting our feet and our ankles and our legs for all the complicated drill moves, but match your shoes to the costume and do not come out with a basic black shoe. If your costume is radiant, don't do that. Don't do that. And don't wear converse.
01:20:39
Speaker
Okay, so one of the things this is like a it's like a crazy idea. I want to get get everyone's take on this. But honestly, I was I was at the mall the other day. And I saw some like golfing shoes and they have some really nice grips to them. And they're super sleek and well designed. I know that it'd be like crazy. But like, I just want to get you guys take off that. They have like, they have straight up like rubber grips that are like really well like set into like the front side of the other foot. So it's like,
01:21:09
Speaker
I don't know. Anyway, I'm just crazy. Golf shoes. I never looked into golf shoes. I bet they got some pretty ones, kind of like bowling shoes. Why not bowling shoes? Not golf shoes, track shoes, track shoes, track shoes. Like they have the really good grips for like a rubber, for like a rubber, like the rubber floor.
01:21:33
Speaker
That's kind of like what percussion has been doing, honestly, is I think like going for a shoe that's more functional than aesthetically pleasing. Like that's kind of where I think percussion's head has been at. That's wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong. You don't know that's wrong. OK, tell me what you mean.
01:21:55
Speaker
It should be aesthetically. No, we don't do function over beauty, not function over beauty. We are the marching arts, art,

Marching Arts Challenges & Solutions

01:22:04
Speaker
art, art. They're the straight boys with the marching arts though. Come on. Art, marching art. Quit me providing the reaction.
01:22:15
Speaker
I think I'm with you guys that we should take a little bit more daring choices, but I think that you know a lot of it is
01:22:27
Speaker
just trying to grab a shoe that's not that expensive that we can march around in. Okay, but Stephen, let's go. So we said, Whitney said, you're the straight boys of the marching arts. Now listen, all of my straight friends, whenever they're designing their costume, they come to me and ask me for those final polishing tips before they go out there. So we know that we can do better.
01:22:48
Speaker
Okay, everyone pays their best gay resource. Should we do like a mentee mentor program between? I will say that a limiting factor for the shoes is probably because most of the members have to buy them themselves.
01:23:11
Speaker
almost none of the indoor groups provide shoes to their members. So if you come to your member like, here's a really cool shoe that fits with our show theme, but it's $150. I don't think many people are going to be on board with that. So they kind of find, you know, one of those cheaper shoes that maybe have a little bit of pizzazz on it. But any shoe that I think would be super artistically amazing, it might be out of the price range for most of the marching members.
01:23:38
Speaker
I'm going to say this and we're going to move on from the shoe topic because I will talk about it all night. I did send a picture of George Mason University wearing appropriate shoes that are marching shoes that look nice, that make the line, that is all there. However, Anne, I 1000% agree with you. It needs to be affordable. It needs to be functional. It needs to look right.
01:24:02
Speaker
I think the bottom line is it has to look right. It has to look right. It has to look, look. We have sacrificed our total to our jazz slippers. They're completely dead. You know, Drumline can, you know, sacrifice some of their comfort as well.
01:24:25
Speaker
Yeah. I will say to wrap it up that after marching Mason for a couple of years, that is something that the staff thinks about every season is, uh, I'm pretty sure Dan and Travis both really enjoy their sneakers. Um, so they always find some footwear that goes with the uniform. Although one season they did put us in drill masters and I will never forgive them for that. Okay.

Time Management & Event Issues

01:24:45
Speaker
Let's move on. I want to drive this conversation. Okay. All right. Let's move on. Ricardo, what are we doing?
01:24:54
Speaker
Oh, hi, friends. So I did another podcast a couple of months ago, and it was all about making sure that you do some self-care. And for some reason, I completely forgot to take my own advice. And I just want to say, what are we doing when we start putting these schedules down on paper? And we go, oh, there's space in there that I can do this thing and this thing and this thing. And then we book ourselves
01:25:21
Speaker
insanely crazy. And then we're exhausted and tired and don't have the energy to do the thing that we love. So what are we doing? We need to take more water breaks. At me for having a child and then taking my kids to WGI world championships immediately afterwards. Health professional and training also agrees with this statement.
01:25:47
Speaker
I agree, but I don't follow that advice. I way overbook myself. I'm busy like seven days a week. We all do. We all do. It's like an open space on the calendar. We feel as marching arts people, we were supposed to fill it up with something. There's more counts to do stuff. I'm fascinated with that so much, Ricardo. Oh my God.
01:26:09
Speaker
Well, for me, it's kind of annoying because like I compete, but then I'm also an instructor. So I got like the double, the double plate of, oh, I need to help teach these kids, but also I need to get ready for performance too. So it's just that vicious cycle. So I'm feeling that right now too.
01:26:26
Speaker
All right, what are we doing, Trish? What are we doing? WGI review process. What is going on? So every regional, which I think is great, rightfully so, they review the top two or whatever. It takes so long. And I check the standings every week. And I mean, unless you guys have seen something or know somebody that has been promoted, it just seems like
01:26:54
Speaker
I mean, I have a really close friend that works with Gates Chailey Winter Guard that they've been reviewed twice. And they were in between Salem and they just went to Pittsburgh last weekend. They had a camp where they were like, are we being promoted? Like, what are we doing? Are we prepared to compete in open or are we prepared to stay in A? So I just feel like
01:27:20
Speaker
I appreciate the fact that WGI does this and I appreciate the fact that they do take the time to really make sure they have it right.
01:27:29
Speaker
but it just seems like it takes forever. And it's just, I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine trying to figure it out like in a span of a week or two weeks, like, okay, so what's the rest of the season look like for us? I just think it's, again, totally appreciate, it's definitely warranted, but it just seems like it takes a really long time. At an A class rehearsal looks completely different from an open-class rehearsal. It does. If that's what you're focusing on, you're focusing on completely different things in those sheets.
01:27:59
Speaker
Exactly. However, if they think that you're good enough to be in the next class, just continue on as normal until you know something. They obviously think you're good enough to be, or they're considering you good enough to be promoted to the next level. So just, just keep cleaning. Just keep looking for shoes that match your costume. That's really all you can do. Well, Whitney, what are we doing?
01:28:31
Speaker
Oh boy. Well, we had the Austin regional this weekend and it was something. Um, I don't even know where to start. Um, I guess I'll start with, um, the lights went out during at least two Scholastic a finals performances. I did catch that on floor.
01:28:54
Speaker
Yeah, he saw it on flow. Not once, but twice? Twice. At 9 a.m. and 11 a.m. Things in the air while this happened? They were performing. Apparently the lights went off. So Allen, Allen High School went on right after us. And and the lights went out like during the flag feature out out. And apparently they came back on when they were like catching a toss.
01:29:26
Speaker
Oh my god. Yeah, so that happened. And then the other one, when Veterans Memorial, also Agard, they were going on in finals two hours later. And the announcer is announcing the beginning of the show. And the lights start to turn off. But their show is oddly enough about being ready to take the stage kind of thing. And it's all very, like, looks like you're backstage.
01:29:55
Speaker
costume racks, all the things. And so the lights went out and like perfectly with the announcement and then they came back on and the music started. It's like, it was like they did it on purpose. It was, it was generally effective. And it made me really upset that we can't mess with the lights once again. And then there was like no air conditioning. It was the switches.
01:30:22
Speaker
No, so I talked to the band director for a long time yesterday and he said that the district has all, like it's at a power plant and it's all timed and whatever and somehow it got turned off and then they were like, no, no, you cannot turn the power off today. We must have the power. We are running an event. And so they have no control of it at school.
01:30:47
Speaker
That might maybe they should, you know, not put it out of venue where they don't have control over the power during. But, you know, that's that's actually becoming more common. Like most school districts control like the air conditioning and things like that away from the actual school. Like my classroom is controlled in a room that is like 10 miles away downtown and like an office building.
01:31:11
Speaker
So I literally have to sit next to, I am in Florida, by the way, everyone. I have to sit in my classroom with a sweater, a jacket and a heater on because it's like 30 degrees in my classroom. Oh my God. No. Where are they getting the money for that? Air conditioning is expensive.
01:31:27
Speaker
from all the arts budgets. That's where the money's coming from. I ain't signing a contract unless I have a thermostat that I can control in my room. Sorry. Wendy, was that all that happened at that regional? No, but how long do we have? I feel like there was more.
01:31:48
Speaker
There was so much more, oh my God. The people running the show were taking their jobs very seriously.
01:31:58
Speaker
and like in ways I've never seen before. Like literally one of my band directors was yelled at by a volunteer because she had on a front side wristband color and we were in the tarp folding area. I've never ever had anyone tell me that a person that has purchased a ticket for $24 cannot go where we fold tarps.
01:32:27
Speaker
Like, that's not real. That's not real.
01:32:30
Speaker
I was like, what, what, what? Oh, gosh. I don't know how deep we want to get into this, but yeah, it was hot in the school because the air wasn't on most of the time, again, because it's run at the district power plant. And it was 83 degrees this weekend in Texas. It was quite warm. So it was just like everybody had their clack fans. All the gays were at church on Sunday. And we were.
01:32:59
Speaker
It was, it was fantastic. Fantastic. The sound guy, this is my favorite part of the weekend. In finals, the sound guy started our music 40 seconds into our interval time. And I had just asked the Remington penalty judge for a minute and 45.
01:33:20
Speaker
So you can imagine about where we were in the setup process, but they weren't ready and then it freaked them out and then they were like panicked and then it just wasn't great. So I got to yell at the sound guy at the end of the day and then his wife grabbed me. Oh my gosh. I nearly got into a physical altercation at a WGI regional event. I said it here.
01:33:45
Speaker
Ridiculous. And I'm not a single person. She's lucky she didn't get absolutely just punched right there in the middle of the high school gym floor. It was so much fun. I love paying so much money for a regional experience. And then, you know, yeah, it was
01:34:12
Speaker
It was super. I hope the San Antonio Regional is more accommodating to what we do. What do we do? Like, what do you do with this situation? Because seriously, I feel like WGI would not appreciate that being
01:34:28
Speaker
the representation of how they run festivals, like do they send? Okay, that's, I guess that's my question is like, is there like an official WGI person there that like make sure all these sort of things run smoothly?
01:34:43
Speaker
Yes, the contest director is a WGI employee. I mean, there's at least a few there. I mean, yeah. But I think what are we doing about it is I contacted the band director and went through my very lengthy list of issues and suggestions. I made sure to give him suggestions too, because like also this high school does not have a winter guard. They have a winter drum line.
01:35:11
Speaker
Which is rare around here. We don't have a lot of winter drum lines in Central, Texas so They have a winter drum line only they don't have a winter guard So like none of the parents even have a kid that is in a winter guard. So the
01:35:26
Speaker
there's a lot of things there. But I made sure to make suggestions and I let him know every single thing that happened. And he was very nice and he was very willing to hear my suggestions and hear everything I had to say. So I think that's what we're doing is just contacting the right people. And then I will be filling out that WGI survey as soon as it comes in.
01:35:47
Speaker
Communication, communication, communication. Oh, that's so great. And what are we doing?

Safety & Accountability in Marching Arts

01:35:53
Speaker
Yeah, so what do you guys think we're doing in regards to the member experience with the introduction of SafeSport? Do we think it's helping?
01:36:02
Speaker
Do we think it's hindering? I have some pretty mixed feelings about this, specifically kind of a heavy topic, but grooming in the marching arts. There was recently some discourse, there's a woman plus Facebook page for all the women and just like gender nonconforming people in the marching arts.
01:36:25
Speaker
And we recently had a little bit of a discussion about this and it kind of blew me away the amount of women or girls, specifically girls and their drumline instructors who have had instances where they've been hit on or asked out or pursued by their much older male instructors.
01:36:49
Speaker
So, just kind of interested in what you guys think about that and how SafeSport has maybe helped, not helped, or, you know, done anything to fix sort of that member experience. Just to clarify, are they asking members to do SafeSport now? Yes, I believe so. I don't think I ever had to do it, but I think all members do now. Yeah, I think it was, I thought it was just staff members, but that's interesting.
01:37:18
Speaker
I think, yeah, I think as of last season, all members did. Okay. I think finally, we're starting to see how prevalent that this problem is in the world of marching arts. And I think that this is something that's always sort of been swept under the rug. And I think for from an instructional standpoint, I think
01:37:36
Speaker
it puts minds at ease knowing that there's that safeguard there for students. Because at the end of the day, we want to have the best experience possible for our performance, right? Like that's our prime directive. All of these events is to lift the kids up so that they have the best experience. And I think going forward, I think it's very important that
01:37:58
Speaker
that we continue to shed light on these uncomfortable topics because usually in a educational setting these types of topics are kind of awkward to talk about, right? But I think there needs to be an open forum in which allegations can be brought forth in which students can have a voice in this because it's very sad given sometimes that individuals will use the instructor to student hierarchy
01:38:26
Speaker
in order to do terrible things, right? So I think safeguards like this are extremely important. That's just my personal opinion. Yeah, totally. And it's really sad because it's like, obviously, you know, we're concerned about it because it's happening in the marching arts. But also, you know, this is something that happens in a lot of activities involving young people. And you're absolutely right that it's not good. Like, I wouldn't want to send my child or myself if I knew these kinds of things were happening. So, you know, hopefully, you know,
01:38:57
Speaker
People who are educators or people who aren't even educators, you know, we can advocate for making safer spaces for people because everyone deserves to have a fun and safe time anywhere. Amen. Amen. Yeah. I definitely think a safe sport is a step in the right direction, but maybe we haven't gotten all the way to like the correct answer.
01:39:19
Speaker
I don't think there is a correct answer yet. I think the correct answer is continuing to unfold. And I think that this is a step in the right direction. And as we take more steps, we get closer to figuring out what that right answer is. I think it's valuable for all students to be able to understand what that is and be able to see those signs because sometimes they don't really truly understand what's happening to them.
01:39:44
Speaker
And unfortunately, there are people who are older who have been around who have become seasoned at doing this and are able to sweep it under the rug. And so we need to be able to point that out to the members so that they know, so that they can call it out, so that they can see it or see it in friends so that they can let people know. Yeah, I think that's a really honest take.
01:40:07
Speaker
Yeah, like educating members is great, but also we need to call out our colleagues more. Everybody hears whispers. Everybody knows that these people are still existing in the marching arts. So we have to, you know, maybe we don't ask them back to teach. Maybe we don't invite them to our ensembles. But I think it definitely starts from accountability, colleague to colleague, and not just giving students tools to deal with it. Preach.

Creative Collaborations & Changes

01:40:49
Speaker
All right, we have got like the shortest news section I have ever seen tonight. So Stephen, why don't you take off with your story? Yeah, this is pretty cool. This is over on Bluecoats.com. The Bluecoats and Sun Lux have announced a two year creative and educational partnership. So Sun Lux has now been named their artist in residence through the 2025 season.
01:41:14
Speaker
which is actually, it's pretty cool. So they're gonna come around, they're doing like some clinics, some master classes and stuff this summer, which Bluecoats has already been like making a thing. They had Jacob Collier out there, I think a year or two ago, like they're already working in these master classes, but in 2025, like an actual Grammy nominated band, essentially, like they made the score for everything everywhere all at once.
01:41:40
Speaker
And they make a lot of other experimental music. They're literally going to be like making original music to be the show for Bluecoats 2025. And they're kind of taking 2024 to be in the mix. And like, I think get some exposure to it. Of course, they're probably not also like contracted to do so much time in 2024. But like,
01:42:03
Speaker
pretty actually different and wild to see a group like actually go higher just a regular traditional successful like Grammy dominated artist or band and say like we want you fully in the fold we're not using like some source music from this band like we want you here teaching master classes writing the show with us writing new music for the show
01:42:30
Speaker
It's like a very bluecoats thing to do. And I think it's a very cool idea. I'm excited to see what comes of it. What do you guys think? Yeah, I'm honestly surprised that that hasn't happened sooner. Yeah, honestly. Because most drum corps, just arrangements, right? I don't know many shows that have had like, here's some new original music. So I think it'll be interesting to see music written specifically for drum corps instead of just us taking cool things that align with the show and be like, here's an arrangement.
01:42:59
Speaker
Yeah, and it's cool because they're taking a group that like they would use for that kind of like more out there weird source music, you know, and they're kind of like just going straight to the brain and rather than like trying to adapt stuff that wasn't made for it, they're just going to try to take that creative source and plug it right into their program. So.
01:43:18
Speaker
You're just another step forward, losing them to like our world to not just not just saying here, give us this, but actually like see what we do and how we do it and then create something that works for that and create something with it. Yeah, they didn't just hire them for a season cold. They basically like put them in the fold in the lightweight for a season and then they want to ram hard in 2025. It's like, yeah, it's thought out. It's intelligent. I agree.
01:43:49
Speaker
They just did the movie, all the music for the, what is the, everything everywhere all at once. They literally did like that whole soundtrack. I saw them live like two years ago. I absolutely love them. If I was young enough to march, I would so be marching there. Oh my God. I love them so much. That's so cool.
01:44:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's who that's interesting. Is this like marketing to try to get, you know, a bigger audition, a pool as well? Because I feel the same way as you like this. If I was marching age, this looks cool. And I don't think they need any help with that. I mean, I don't know already the best at it, but just keep hammering it down, fellas. You know, that's cool. I want to know how much they are paying sun lux. I would be very interested to see those numbers.
01:44:37
Speaker
Yeah. What are their member fees going to be like in the coming years? $12 million. Firstborn. That's going to be their member fees. Firstborn and a left leg. Oh my goodness. It's getting there. It's, you're making jokes, but it's getting there.

Leadership & Recognition

01:44:57
Speaker
Okay. Trish, what do you get brought for us today for news?
01:45:02
Speaker
Okay. Well, the University of Delaware has a new marching band director. She is Brooke Johnson. She comes to University of Delaware from Miami University, Ohio, but she is a UT alum. And I think that's what makes this really unique.
01:45:27
Speaker
Everybody seems to be really excited about it. Outgoing director Heidi Sarver said when she got the message from Brooke that she was side sealed and delivered, that tears ran down her face because she knew the band was in really good hands. The story is a little bit bittersweet for me because I previously taught at Color Guard at University of Delaware and
01:45:48
Speaker
visual arts slash de la jure winter guard. And I can't say enough amazing things about Heidi Sarver. She's incredible. She's down to earth. She's there for you when you need her. Uh, she's just incredible. So, but on the flip side, I'm really super happy for her that she can now rest and know that the band is in good hands. So, and I believe that, uh, it's very possible that she will be on, uh, on the future on a water break episode.
01:46:16
Speaker
So we'll look forward to that. Well, and we did interview Heidi also, right? We did. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So go back and this is that episode. That was a good one too. Um, Jack, exciting one. Yeah. Yeah. So something that strikes close to home here on the West coast. So the 25, uh, the 2025 slots, uh, for the 2025 Rose parade have been selected.
01:46:45
Speaker
It's exciting for all the bands that are going to be rolling out next New Year's for that awesome, great opportunity. So anyone who doesn't know, the application process is renowned as the gauntlet because you have to send in an excellent application, video application, composed of not only rank and file marching, but also a field show performance to show your diversity of skill set.
01:47:15
Speaker
so that you can perform not only in the band fest event, but in the parade proper. And at the end of it all, even if you are a great block, even if you are awesome on the field, if it doesn't look like you would be fun to look at for six miles, you get cut. It's kind of a brutal process. So way to go for all our bands represented around the United States coming in for the 2025 Rose Parade. Congratulations.
01:47:43
Speaker
And Ricardo. Well, the WGI Emerging Voices Awards have been announced. And the winners are Olivia Starnes and Sade Taylor. For those of you who don't know what the Future Leaders Program is and the Emerging Voices, it's a community-funded monetary award that provides an opportunity for outstanding minority performers with significant financial need to reach their highest
01:48:13
Speaker
potential. And this award is geared to individuals who show promise to be a beacon for positive change in their communities and in WGI. And I am super excited for Olivia to be a winner because Olivia is a member of Eclipse Winter Guard, which I am on

Conclusion & Social Media Encouragement

01:48:33
Speaker
staff board. I actually was just with Olivia
01:48:37
Speaker
listening to her try to figure out her life and her next steps because she's so passionate about the marching arts. And here's a quick little thing. I got a quote from her today, hot off the presses. So she's originally from Sykeson, Missouri.
01:48:54
Speaker
when she moved to Riverdale, Tennessee during her sophomore year. Most of her life it has just been her, her mom, and her little sister. But she says, color art wasn't big where I grew up. Once we moved, my little sister saw how serious I was beginning to take guard.
01:49:10
Speaker
and I was able to spend in eighth grade and she absolutely loves it and is spending with her high school now and she started guard at her middle school. The high school girls taught them the show and then they designed it and she says because of marching I've been given wonderful opportunities. I've been blessed to be able to teach at my alma mater and about three other schools.
01:49:31
Speaker
be a part of the Future Leaders Program and a winner of the Emerging Voices Awards. While doing that, I'm working in retail, preparing for nursing school and looking forward to Drum Corps. And her instructor from high school all the way through said she is wonderful, her spirit is unmatched, she is beyond kind and just the best kid. And I will say from my interactions with her, I agree with it and she is well deserving.
01:49:56
Speaker
Congratulations to both Olivia and Sade. This is a great accomplishment for you both. So maybe we need to get some interviews lined up with these winners here. I'm going to work on that. Do it, do it. Sykes in Missouri, that's like right down the road from me. It is. That's in your neighborhood, friend.
01:50:19
Speaker
All right, everybody. Thank you for a great rehearsal this week. Thank you to our hosts, Whitney, Emily, Trish, Jack, Ricardo, Steven. Anne, if our listeners want to find you, where could they do that at? Yeah, you can primarily find me on Instagram at Anne.Saber.com. And if you want to listen to a podcast that I produced, it's not about the marching arts, but it's about women in conservation. And there's a lot of intersectionality between the two. You can find that podcast
01:50:49
Speaker
It's called Conservation Stories Podcast, Trailblazing Women in Conservation. You can find that on Spotify, Apple Music, Google Play, all of your main podcast hosting formats.
01:51:03
Speaker
Excellent, all right. Thank you once again to Giselle, Dawn and Georgia for that incredible interview with Woody and me. One more thing, don't forget we have our new YouTube channel that has so many of our interviews coming out as full videos. So make sure you go and subscribe so you don't miss those. Ring that bell.
01:51:25
Speaker
get those notifications. But before you close out of your podcast listening out, make sure you go subscribe, write us a review, share this with a friend, follow us on all of our social media at On A Water Break, and we'll see you at the next rehearsal, On A Water Break. Go practice. The On A Water Break podcast was produced by Jeremy Williams and Christine Reames. The intro and outro music was produced by Josh Lyda. To learn more, visit LydaMusic.com.
01:51:55
Speaker
And until next time, thanks for tuning in.