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E131: Ashley Morin
2.4k Plays4 years ago
Yearly, the spirits can see the line of red marching from the Saskatoon Police Department to North Battleford-- a march to bring Ashley Morin home. Today, the National Day of Awareness for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, and every day, we here at Coffee and Cases want to show our support and love for the victims all too often ignored and vow to continue to support the Morin family in every way we know how.
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Transcript
Symbolism of Colors and MMIW
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Speaker
We all know colors have meaning. Sending yellow roses signifies friendship. Green in a poem might symbolize rebirth. The color red can represent violence, the color of blood. But it can also mean something different depending on who you ask.
00:00:19
Speaker
According to many indigenous people across North America, the color red is the only one seen by the spirits, transcending the physical world into the spiritual realm. It's why historically in some ceremony, children are dressed in red to call upon ancestors to guide and protect the children.
00:00:39
Speaker
invisibility, guidance, protection, spirits. All of these meanings meld, creating a paradoxically complex and yet simple message when the red hue that represents each element fingers its way across the face as a handprint, covering the mouth in silence. This red handprint is the symbol for a movement representing the group who is murdered at a rate 10 times higher than other ethnicities.
00:01:09
Speaker
A group for whom 84% will experience violence in their lifetime. 56% sexual violence. Native women.
National Day of Awareness and MMIW
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Speaker
This red handprint is the symbol for the MMIW, the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women Movement.
00:01:29
Speaker
The color red to represent the spirits of those who are missing, indigenous mothers, daughters, sisters, so their spirits may know protection, so their spirits are guided home. The color red to make visible the all too often invisible crimes targeting indigenous women. When justice for those crimes is often forgotten in the face of technical loopholes within the very justice system that should provide protection,
00:01:58
Speaker
since the majority of those crimes are committed by non-Native people on tribal lands, and federal law limits the jurisdiction of tribal courts in prosecuting non-Native people who commit physical and sexual violence on Native-owned property.
00:02:16
Speaker
An astounding 97%, for example, of sexual violence against indigenous women is committed by non-native individuals. The red handprint across the face reveals the silencing of violent crimes committed against these women at the same time that it is a call for protection and healing.
00:02:38
Speaker
And the day this episode airs, May 5th, the color red is also a symbol of solidarity, as many across North America, and perhaps you as well, will don red clothing to show support for what today is. National Day of Awareness for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls.
Ashley Morin's Case Introduction
00:03:00
Speaker
The color red worn today is the justice never sought in the cases of murdered indigenous women. The color red worn today is each missing woman or girl for whom law enforcement isn't looking. The color red worn today is a visible reminder that we need to do better.
00:03:21
Speaker
On this national day of awareness, it seems only fitting that the victim at the center of our case this week is a young woman from the Atakakup Cree Nation. This is the case of Ashley Morin.
Podcast Introduction: Coffee and Cases
00:04:10
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:04:19
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:04:47
Speaker
You know, this has been a great week. It has. We've had some warmer weather, summer's getting closer, which means summer vacation is getting closer. Praise Jesus. Yes, I am so excited. And maybe that summertime excitement has been getting into our listeners as well, because this week we've gotten
00:05:11
Speaker
at least two new reviews on Apple podcast one was from hugs CG who said they can't get enough and love listening to our conversations and the other from nickname Who said they feel like they're sitting in the room with us each week and that Every time they think of something to say one of us says it Made my day made my week actually same and
00:05:41
Speaker
I think we feel that way because we really do think of you all like family and care about you just like we care about the families whose cases we cover. I mean, at least I hope that shows through. Yes. And in other good news, we have three new Patreon members to welcome, Aaliyah, Amanda, and Sarah. So welcome, welcome, and welcome.
00:06:06
Speaker
You are in for a treat because we actually just recorded some Patreon content tonight that we just have to get edited and uploaded and I think that you'll love it as much as we enjoyed making it.
00:06:18
Speaker
Yeah, and listen, the uploading part to Patreon has been a task. Yes. So for those of you on Patreon, bear with us. We're finally getting things uploaded. Yes, we know we're a little bit behind, but no, we're working on that.
00:06:40
Speaker
And two more of our sleuth hounds found the Patreon shout out form. So that is good. Yes. It's been a while. So we'd like to recognize Amanda, number one, who wrote, quote, you ladies are doing a fantastic job. Keep up the great work. I'm so happy to be here and very happy to have found your podcast. Well, that's so sweet. She said you're both awesome. I know. I know. Number one.
00:07:05
Speaker
Yes we also have Amanda number two. Yes we did. And she said listening to your show was like hanging out with friends. Friends who talk about murder but in a good way. Thanks for all the laughs. That sounds like a total Maggie comment right. Let's talk about murder.
00:07:23
Speaker
But in a good way. What a good way. Not the psycho kind of way. Right. Right. If you would like to access bonus content, here are some spooky paranormal stories. We've got a bunch of those. Be entertained by some solved true crime cases. Learn a little bit more about and laugh alongside Maggie and me. Consider joining our Patreon where you can access all of that for only $5 a month. So just head on over to patreon.com.
00:07:53
Speaker
slash coffee and cases podcast, all one word to learn
Ashley Morin's Disappearance in Saskatchewan
00:07:57
Speaker
more. Now, Maggie, let's get into this week's episode. Yeah, I'm very intrigued by this one. So for our episode this week, I had the pleasure of speaking with Alexis Christensen, who is a spokesperson for the Morin family.
00:08:16
Speaker
I had reached out to Ashley's sister who gave me Alexis's contact information to provide background for this case. And I also have to mention, Maggie, that this case is one that takes place in your favorite place of all. Yes, we are in Canada this week. Specifically, we are in Saskatchewan. Oh, so Western Canada. That's right. It's in Western Canada. For our US listeners, it's
00:08:46
Speaker
Well, Saskatchewan is right above Montana and North Dakota. But for our case this week, the city I will be talking about is kind of up from Montana. Okay. And the city that we are in this week is North Battleford, which is the seventh largest city in the province. North Battleford and the neighboring Battleford.
00:09:10
Speaker
are collectively known as, are you ready for this? The Battlefords. Of course they are. Right. And they aren't necessarily known as the safest of places to live within the province. Though I do get the sense that the Battlefords are a lot like many cities where, you know, there are safer areas where you would feel completely comfortable raising a family and then other areas where the crime is higher. So I know like
00:09:41
Speaker
I mean, I feel like people are a lot more spread out in Canada than they are in the United States. So when we're saying seventh largest city in this Providence, I'm picturing like the size of Chicago. When really it's about the size of what we would say in Kentucky would maybe be a smaller to a mid-sized
00:10:06
Speaker
Oh, okay. Because in the last census in 2020, the population was just slightly less than 14,000 in North Oxford. So like maybe the size of Ashland or like Pykeville. Right. I think Ashland's probably bigger than that.
00:10:22
Speaker
But the Canadian news magazine McLean's in 2018 ranked North Battleford as the most dangerous place in Canada. No. For overall crime and the province itself, Saskatchewan in 2020 had the highest rate of homicide in all the provinces. Well, I like the name Saskatchewan and I want to be able to go there and now I'm scared to.
00:10:49
Speaker
Yeah, because of that high homicide rate, that does kind of put, I guess, a bad taste in your mouth in terms of that area. And much like the statistics that I mentioned in the introduction, indigenous people are seven times more likely to be the victim of those homicides than non-indigenous people. And that statistic is problematic
00:11:16
Speaker
when you factor in that the Battlefords are home to several indigenous groups. I wonder why, I mean there's probably no answer for this, but I wonder why are indigenous people so many more times likely to be victimized?
00:11:34
Speaker
I think part of it has to do with basically culturally what has happened that I mentioned in the introduction of the technical loopholes so that those homicides are rarely held accountable. Which makes no sense.
00:11:58
Speaker
I don't know, let's say I, this is nowhere near a good comparison, but I'm just using this as an example. If every time I went to Ohio, I could rob a bank and technical loopholes meant that I could get away with it, well, there would be a lot of bank robbery in Ohio. You know what I mean? And so because of federal laws that make it so difficult to prosecute,
00:12:25
Speaker
non-indigenous people for crimes that are committed on the land owned by those indigenous people. I think that lack of accountability for crimes has just led to a continued increase. Okay. So Ashley Morin, called Ash by those who knew her best, is from, as I mentioned earlier, the Atakakup Cree Nation.
Events Surrounding Ashley's Last Sighting
00:12:53
Speaker
And on July 10th, 2018, when our case begins, Ashley was 31 years old.
00:13:02
Speaker
Maggie, I know that this is a cliche and we hear it all the time, that those who've been a victim of crimes, when they're described by others, they always have the smile that lights up the room. Yeah, we probably said that like every episode. Right. But I can honestly say that it is also true for Ashley Morin.
00:13:25
Speaker
Every person, every article, the people I talk to, every person who talks about Ashley describes her wide smile. And when you look at her in pictures, she looks like the most approachable, friendly person because of that smile. She's like one of those people when she smiles, her eyes smile too. And her cheeks bunch up.
00:13:52
Speaker
And all of this, she looked so approachable even though she was actually quite shy.
00:13:57
Speaker
I think like I look super approachable and then have you seen those memes where it's like Why do you why like I look so approachable and then it's like also me and they just have like this most horrible expression on their face like my Sister-in-law would say they have a resting B face like I feel like that's me Like I feel like I look so approachable But then when I see pictures of myself where I'm just like in the background just sitting I look scary
00:14:27
Speaker
You know, I've had people tell me that they thought I was intimidating and I was thinking, me? I thought you were when I first met, well, not really intimidating, but like when I first started at work there, like everybody, when they were telling me about the people in the English department, they were like, Alison's just really quiet and she just really keeps to herself. And then I was like, yeah, but she doesn't teach next to me. And then when she keeps next to me, I'll just go to her room all the time and make her be my friend.
00:14:56
Speaker
Right. And it all changed. Yeah. No, but that's I am I am shy around people who I just meet. But then once I get to know people, I don't shut up. So, yeah, I think Ashley was a lot. She was very quiet, but then super friendly, like she would do anything for anybody. And she was actually, as I just said, as caring as she looked. So her laugh and her helping spirit came easy.
00:15:26
Speaker
She even helped to care for her friend's child. Like she just stepped in wherever she was needed because she loved people.
00:15:38
Speaker
And I think that that fact shows the softer side of Ashley, but she was also a competitive athlete. And to put it into perspective, she was so good. She played soccer and hockey. She was so good that she, and I didn't read which team it was, whether soccer or hockey, but I did read that she played on the boys team and was one of the best players on the team.
00:16:03
Speaker
I feel like either way, soccer and hockey can become a violent sport sometimes, especially hockey, but even soccer can be. So you go girl. Yeah, she was a rock star. And within the last year, before July 10th, 2018, that's when changes started to occur. A different group of people had been introduced in Ashley's life via someone Ash fell in love with.
00:16:33
Speaker
And when I was talking with Alexis, we don't know if the two, Ashley and this other person, were dating. Some people on the street, some rumors said that they were, or if that other person were just using Ash, because some other rumors say that as well. So she was either dating this person, or she was in love with this person, and they were pretending to have feelings or something, but they were just using her. Right.
00:17:03
Speaker
But what we do know is that based on what Alexis told me, something was happening in that last year that was linked to that new crowd, that new crowd that Ash was introduced to via that love interest. And that very quickly, after being introduced to this new crowd, ended in Ashley's disappearance.
00:17:29
Speaker
So part of the problem is that we really don't have a lot of details of Ashley in her last few days, except a few that have been pieced together after her disappearance. Basically, all we know is that Ashley last talked to her mom on July 1st.
00:17:52
Speaker
And then we go days without any details that glaringly stand out as something unusual or even of some warning of the pain that was about to strike her family and friends. So was it normal for people to go like that long without hearing from her?
00:18:17
Speaker
Everything I read said she was in fairly regular contact with her family. But, I mean, there are times, especially when my life is crazy and hectic, I will go a week to a week and a half without talking to my parents.
00:18:38
Speaker
if my life is just wild. Okay, so maybe this was normal for her. Because the last her mom talks to her is on July 1st and she's reported missing July 10th.
00:18:50
Speaker
Okay. For me, that would be a long span of time. That's when the last she was seen. Okay. Your mom wouldn't know. Yeah. She'd be like, Maggie's dead because she's not called me 10 times today when she's walking through Walmart or board. And even Ashley's last day seems pretty uneventful based upon the few details that we know. Around 9.30 PM, which is already too late for me,
00:19:21
Speaker
Same. It's almost that time right now and I'm right in the bed. Right. Ash was seen on the corner of 96th Street and 16th Avenue in North Battleford. What she was doing there and where she may have been headed isn't clear, but this corner that she was last seen on stands at the western end of the town of North Battleford.
00:19:43
Speaker
Catty Corner to an elementary school. Side note, do you say Catty Corner or Kitty Corner? I've always said Catty Corner, but I know people, other people in our country say Kitty Corner. No, it's definitely Catty Corner. That's what I thought too. Okay. It is Catty Corner to an elementary school. It is near where Ashley lived, this corner.
00:20:05
Speaker
And it was across the street from a football field that was located in the back of John Paul II High School. So I feel like this should probably be a pretty safe area, an elementary school and high school. It is. It's residential. So that makes me think, you know, it's not as though she were headed to a store or something like that. So it makes me think, you know, she could have just been out for an evening walk. That's my best guess.
00:20:31
Speaker
But Ashley was last seen with the individual with whom there is said to have potentially been a romantic relationship. So like what did, do we know what Ashley did for a living? Yes, she worked full time at a casino. Okay. So then maybe that could explain the late night. Did she, could she walk to work? I do not know. I do not know. I don't know what her normal shift
00:21:00
Speaker
Yeah, at the casino so to know if she worked normally during the day or at nights, you know, so yeah, she could have just been whiling away the hours until going to work or whatever. But she was last seen with that.
00:21:16
Speaker
love interest. Ashley, five foot two and 110 pounds. Oh, she's tiny. Yeah. Was wearing gray sweatpants, a black t-shirt with white writing on it, a black hat and sunglasses. Now, sometimes she did wear prescription glasses and we don't know if she had them on that day, but obviously I'm guessing not since she was reported to have had her sunglasses on the top of her head.
00:21:43
Speaker
Which is weird because it's not 30 at night, but you know. Unless she had them, you know, and then forgot that she had them on. That's true. You know, sometimes I just use my regular glasses as like a headband. That's what I was going to say. Maybe she would use them as a headband. Right, right. And in every picture that I've seen of Ashley, she wore her long black hair down. So I'm going to assume that she did on that day also.
00:22:09
Speaker
Yeah, because literally every woman that like every indigenous woman has the most perfect hair. I know. And complexion. I'm quite jealous. Yes. And that's basically all we know. Wow. A few days after Ashley disappeared, there was one odd event that happened.
00:22:32
Speaker
And this is from everything that I read, what prompted her family to report her missing. And that is that Ashley's green and black bag ended up on her mother's front porch. Without Ashley carrying it? Without Ashley carrying it. So obviously Ashley wouldn't have brought her own purse to her mother's house and just left it. And just left it. Yeah. So how did it get there? By whom?
00:23:01
Speaker
And many wonder, they think, okay, well, if something did happen to Ashley at that corner.
00:23:08
Speaker
that one I was talking about. Maybe somebody found her purse on the sidewalk or near the high school football field where she was last seen. And maybe that person, they're thinking, oh, someone has lost a purse. They look inside at the ID, they see the address on it, and they just dropped the purse off on Ashley's mother's porch, thinking that they were returning it to its owner.
00:23:33
Speaker
But would her address like on her ID or whatever be her, did she live with her mom or did she? No, she did not, but I don't know. You know how some people they'll move, but they don't change their address for like six months or longer. Okay. First off people, you know me, that's illegal. Well, no, I don't know if it's technically illegal, but it's frowned upon. It's supposed to be like, I think two weeks after you move. Right. Well,
00:24:00
Speaker
I'm not saying I've always been the best and I'm a real follower, so. Well, I wasn't when we moved, you know, just in case you guys want to know, now you know. Two weeks. Yeah. So that's what some people believe is why the purse showed up. That don't make sense to me.
00:24:20
Speaker
It doesn't really to me either. Because again, if they're looking at her wallet and it's they see her address, it would be her address, not her. Well, like you said, even if she hadn't changed it, if I'm returning somebody's purse, yeah, I just wouldn't leave it. They're probably going to knock on the door. Yeah. And say, Hey, I found this. Right. But that was the theory at the time. Maybe they just found it. But Ashley's family now had her purse.
00:24:47
Speaker
But what they desperately wanted was Ashley herself. And that's it. That's all her family and law enforcement knew. She was here one day and gone the next. Which potentially she could have been gone for several days before we realized it. Well, and she was last seen on July 10th.
00:25:11
Speaker
I don't know the exact date of when her bag appeared, but that's the last date when we can confirm someone saw her, which is why we have the description of her clothing and the last time that she was seen. So she talks to mom July 1. There's several days that go by. She's last seen on July 10th. Yeah, nothing eventful. Last seen on July 10th. And then the bag at some point. The bag shows up.
00:25:38
Speaker
but the weight of Ashley's loss was heavy. Even her old soccer coach, Neil Sosakamous, said of Ashley's disappearance that it, quote,
00:25:48
Speaker
affects me right in my soul, right in my spirit. And he hasn't been able to coach soccer since she's been gone. Oh my gosh. But despite all of the pain, there didn't seem to be any answers. Of course, there were rumors always tales of who was involved and what they did to Ashley. But all of that was just hearsay. Yet when another local woman
00:26:17
Speaker
Tiki Brooklyn Laverdier disappeared several months after Ashley. Fears were on the rise. This was also about the same time when the Maclean's article was published naming North Battleford as one of Canada's most dangerous places. So first Ashley disappears, then Tiki Laverdier disappears.
00:26:42
Speaker
Were there similarities in the two? There were. And I'll tell you about them here in just a second. But first, I'm going to fast forward a year after Ashley's disappearance.
Developments in Ashley's Case
00:26:55
Speaker
So there's nothing. We know nothing for an entire year.
00:27:00
Speaker
It was then a year later that her family was told that there would be information released by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police about the crime. And I got the impression that her family believed that this release or statement would just be another push for answers, you know, an active move to keep Ashley's case in the public eye.
00:27:25
Speaker
But what the Saskatchewan Royal Canadian Mounted Police would say in that release would shock the family to their core two separate times. Oh, my stomach just kind of flipped over. I'm a little anxious. The first shock came when RCMP released a video surveillance image still of a two-toned van.
00:27:50
Speaker
that law enforcement now said they believed was somehow linked to Ashley's disappearance, and which was seen in the same vicinity of North Battleford on July 10th, right around the last time Ashley was last seen. The hands are always creepy. I know. And this image, and perhaps because of the quality of the image, it's grainy and pixelated, so it does have that kind of sinister feel.
00:28:19
Speaker
But it shows a commercial type van with no rear window. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm talking about where the whole back is enclosed. You can't see in. Those are kidnapping vans. Right. That's what I think. And the majority of the van is a light color, possibly white. And that's on the top of the van. And then the bottom quarter of the van is dark, possibly black.
00:28:45
Speaker
So it looks like the top three quarters are white and then that bottom quarter is black, though it could be other colors because it's a black and white grainy image. It could be silver and dark gray or something. Or cream and brown. Right.
00:29:01
Speaker
RCMP asked in this release for individuals to come forward who had any information about the vans owners or drivers or even names of individuals who might have had access to such a van. And the shock came in the fact that Ashley's family before this statement to the public by law enforcement, they had never even heard of a van in relation to the case. So they find out when this public statement goes out? Yes.
00:29:31
Speaker
So that was the first shock. The second shock came when Saskatchewan RCMP declared Ashley the victim of homicide. Like they just said this in like a news press. They didn't tell her family first. Right. But they didn't even know where Ashley was.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, so how do they know? Yeah, and yet because, well, they basically said because there had been no activity on her phone, on social media apps, or with her bank account, and because Ashley was going this long without speaking to her family, which was a quote, marked departure from her own behavior. That's what RCMP spokesperson Rob King told CBC News. So that's why the determination was made.
00:30:18
Speaker
I just feel like, you know, how can you say that for sure? Because you don't know. And then one, how can you just say it in a news conference and not front load her family with that information?
00:30:32
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And those are my two problems. I don't know how they make the jump from potential foul play with an abduction to definite homicide if you don't have even named suspects and you have no idea where Ashley is. Which I guess we would not be happy like
00:30:52
Speaker
Really, we're not happy with anything, they say, because if we said, like if they said she ran away of her own accord, she's making a second life for herself, we would be like, how can they say that and rule out that it's homicide? So, you know. Right. I mean, it is a lose-lose situation, if we're honest. But my biggest problem comes from what you said. Again, without first discussing the news with the family, they make this announcement. So imagine
00:31:19
Speaker
this family's continued hope that their Ash would return home. It had only been a year. Right. So you still are kind of hopeful at that point. Right. They're tuning into this release statement, thinking that there's going to be a push for answers that might even serve to strengthen that hope that you have only to, in essence, be told that Ash won't be coming home at all because she was the victim of a homicide. I can't imagine what that did to their hearts.
00:31:49
Speaker
How would you even process that? Right. Law enforcement went on to also indicate that they had received information to make them think that Ashley might have been traveling from North Battleford toward either Lloydminster or Edmonton, which are two other towns in Canada. Though, as of yet, they were unable to confirm either of those leads, they said.
00:32:15
Speaker
But how do they, like, how do they know that? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just in any case, how can we, are we just guessing or making educated guesses, inferences? Or even if tips come in, I mean, why pick those tips instead of other ones?
00:32:31
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like you would have to have some type of credibility. Like, I mean, if not, they could say anything and pass it off as a theory. And to put this into perspective, Maggie, Lloyd Minster is 87 miles away, which is 140 kilometers for international listeners. And Edmonton is 200 miles away, 390 kilometers. Yeah, just an easy day trip.
00:32:56
Speaker
Yeah, I'm thinking, okay, either way, you're not going to walk on foot. Yeah. So why would you say she's headed to one of those places? First of all, and second of all, both of these are quite a distance away. So why are they picking those cities instead of one say, in between?
00:33:14
Speaker
Right. North Battleford and, you know, Edmonton. Yeah. How do they know? Right. It doesn't make sense to me.
Similarities with Tiki Laverdier's Case
00:33:22
Speaker
And I will say her family know of no reason why Ashley would have been headed to either one of those places. So it's not like she had, you know, oh, my best friend moved to Edmonton or, oh, I have family here that I've been longing to go see.
00:33:40
Speaker
A potential development happened around that same time when an investigator phoned Ashley's family to say that they had located a body, but they didn't believe it was Ashley. The next day, well, I guess to let, they would have seen on the news that a body was found. The next day, RCMP announced that the remains located in a remote area of North Carolina.
00:34:10
Speaker
Yes, they were Tiki Brooklyn Laverdeer. And what's fascinating, you asked me if they were similar and they were eerily similar. Much like Ashley, Laverdeer went missing in North Battleford. She went missing in April of 2019. She was reported missing in May. In June, RCMP said Laverdeer was likely the victim of homicide.
00:34:40
Speaker
even though she's still missing. And in July, her remains were identified. So also, like Ashley, were there few details about how she disappeared? Correct. Though once her body was found,
00:34:59
Speaker
they were quickly able to kind of put the finishing touches on a case. And there were, there have actually been eight separate individuals named as involved in that murder. Well, I wonder if they could, if they figured out who did, who was responsible for her death, if they could maybe connect that person with Ashley. I don't know if, I don't believe that those individuals are the same individuals that we're going to talk about.
00:35:28
Speaker
Yet Maggie, even though they were able to solve Tiki Laverdeer's case, there have not been any specific suspects named in Ashley's disappearance, nor clarification made on why specifically her case has been one deemed probable homicide rather than, you know, more like suspicious disappearance.
00:35:52
Speaker
But we do have some theories just to hear. So first, let's talk about the detail that was given by RCMP in that statement that was made a year after Ashley's disappearance, the van.
00:36:07
Speaker
and the comments about her potentially going to Lloyd Minster or Edmonton. Right, because we were like, you know, why are those two cities? Right. So Alexis tells me that Ashley, again, as I mentioned before, didn't know anyone in either one of those two places. I wonder if her love interest did, though. Now that is a possibility. Well, let's talk more about that when I get into the three theories.
00:36:33
Speaker
Also, what Alexis told me is that no one, no one knew anyone with a van like that, nor did anyone recognize it. And while this is a large city, it's actually a small city, so people didn't know. Yes, that's what I was getting ready to say. People are going to be like, oh, that's, you know,
00:36:56
Speaker
Bobby's two-tone man or whatever it is. I mean, they would recognize it. Or I feel like if it were something unusual, then people would have paid even more attention to it. Yes, like the ferret. Right. In Pamela Ray's case, yeah. But what Alexis did tell me is that the street talks and those on the street
00:37:20
Speaker
have never told stories that involve the van that law enforcement seemed convinced is linked to the case. So is it a possibility then that the van has nothing to do with Ashley's case? I think so. I think that's what Alexis was saying. It's kind of like that red herring. It throws people off and they fixate on it when it might not necessarily have anything to do.
00:37:44
Speaker
with Ashley's case. What has been a consistent in the rumors is that this is all of the stories tend to go back to the same thing, that Ashley was murdered and that her body was dumped in or near water. No.
00:38:03
Speaker
And tips related to that commonality have led to many searches, including near the banks of the Saskatchewan River.
Theories on Ashley's Disappearance
00:38:13
Speaker
So there have been many searches, but all have ended with no further clues in Ashley's case. So really, we know nothing. Right. The story goes that
00:38:29
Speaker
she has been murdered. And again, that her body is somewhere in or near water. But even with those consistencies, there's still one lingering question. And that is who hurt Ashley. Yeah. So I'm going to give you
00:38:47
Speaker
four theories. So theory one is one that I'll already tell you I don't believe, but I have to bring it up. And you mentioned it earlier, that is that Ashley left of her own volition that these stories are nowhere near true. It's just talk from people. Maybe the group who Ashley was introduced to caused some sort of trouble that Ashley wanted to escape from.
00:39:13
Speaker
So my question, like what kind of things was she doing with this group? Do we know? I don't know. I got the impression that that group of people were linked to
00:39:30
Speaker
drugs and violence. Okay. So maybe she was wanting to get away from this group. It's more like what we would call gang activity. Okay. So yeah, maybe if this is true, maybe they cause trouble and she wanted to escape and this is the only way that she knew how. That just doesn't fit her personality to me. Right. Yeah. Also, you need money to do that.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I get that it's plausible, but I just don't believe that theory. I don't think that she would go that long without speaking to her family. I feel like she would have snuck and talked to them and said, hey, I'm hiding because I'm trying to keep everybody safe, right? And they wouldn't tell anybody because they wouldn't want her to get hurt. And she also hasn't used her bank card, which is what you just mentioned, or any personal devices. Also, like, how easy is it
00:40:27
Speaker
I mean, I don't know, but like how easy is it just to run away and start a new life? Like I feel like that would be very hard. You're gonna have to have a lot of counterfeit documents. Like first off in the United States, you're gonna need a social security card because like everything you sign up for, you have to put your social security number in. You're gonna have to have like a piece of mail with your residence on it to get any type of document from the courthouse. Like I don't think that's an easy thing to do. I mean, maybe if you like,
00:40:56
Speaker
Like, you know, I don't get why you're like the go-to theory. Right. And like, I feel like that's gonna, you're gonna have to have a lot of money. Like there's a lawyer in Eastern Kentucky who did that and it obviously didn't work out for him because now he's in jail, but
00:41:10
Speaker
It worked out for a little while, but he had the means to do that. A normal person, I don't understand why that's such a go-to theory when obviously it's very hard to do. Exactly. Even besides that, I think there must be some other reason that maybe we don't know of that made the RCMP rule this a homicide. Yeah. I almost feel like there has to be. Right. Theory number one to me is out.
00:41:37
Speaker
Theory two is a young man, and again, just like our other theories, because we are mentioning potential involvement, and yet there have been no named suspects, we will not be mentioning any people's names, just descriptions. But theory two is a young man in town who was dating one of Ashley's friends.
00:42:00
Speaker
In February of 2020, so we're talking a couple of years or a year and a half. Yeah, that's true. A year and a half after Ashley's disappearance, a young man was on trial in Saskatoon for the attempted murder of one of Ashley's friends.
00:42:21
Speaker
The young man began acting aggressive and accusing Ashley's friends of flirting with, friend of flirting with other men. And that friend's mom actually became worried about the behavior and called the young man to check on her daughter. But the young man answered the phone and he said that he and her daughter were with a buddy not to worry. And then he quickly hung up.
00:42:47
Speaker
Oh, no. Uh-uh. Mm-hmm. And after just a few minutes, the young man called the mom back on speakerphone and was saying to Ashley's friend, quote, tell your mom you're dead. Tell her you're going to end up in the river like Ashley Morin.
00:43:05
Speaker
Oh, that gave me goosebumps. Well, the mom immediately called law enforcement, who luckily were able to get there in time and stop a murder before it occurred. Oh, like he legit was on trial for attempted murder. Oh, like it was in process. Right.
00:43:22
Speaker
Oh no. And while that comment, that seems bad to me to say, you know, tell your mom you're going to end up in a river like Ashley Moore. And very specific. Right. And especially with all those rumors about water, but that is why Ashley's family and friends actually don't believe that he had anything to do with Ashley because the rumor of what happened to Ashley was all around town.
00:43:49
Speaker
And all of the rumors were related to her body having been thrown into water. So he probably was just trying to say like super hurtful things to this girl and scare her. Exactly. So they think his comment was just one, like you said, it was made in anger, but it was based on the stories that everyone had heard and not on anything that he individually did. Okay. Okay. So that's theory two.
00:44:14
Speaker
Theories three and four, and I'm linking these together because they have to do with the same groups of people. Now, these are based on what Alexis told me of her own detective work. She has actually worked tirelessly to speak with anyone she has tipped off might have information about Ashley. And Alexis said to me, and I believe her, she said, I'm likely their worst nightmare.
00:44:41
Speaker
because she will not relent until they speak with her. They're like, oh, this is Alexis again. Right. I gotta answer this time. So what she found are stories that
00:44:54
Speaker
You know how I said the rumors are always that Ashley was murdered and that her body was placed in or near water. The same is true for the people involved. What she found are that the stories always go back to the same names. And I'm going to guess it's names that were linked to Ashley's love interest. Yes, they were linked to that crowd.
00:45:20
Speaker
that Ashley was introduced to through her love interest, who, again, was the last person to see her alive. Right, and that's always, you're always a suspect when you're the last person to see someone alive. Exactly, exactly. And while we're not gonna name names, Alexis said many involved, many of the names that people hear with the stories are people who are believed or rumored to kill people.
00:45:49
Speaker
Oh, we're not going to name their names. It's kind of like, you know, when I talk to my students again, I give comparisons that are nowhere near the extent of what I'm talking about, but you get it. If I went to my students and I said, who are the best teachers in the school?
00:46:09
Speaker
they're gonna name the same ones. If I said, who are the worst ones in the school, they're gonna name the same ones. These are the ones who, if you said to the people in North Battleford, who do you think would be responsible, they would name these people, is basically what Alexis and I were talking about. So one of these people kind of strikes fear
00:46:38
Speaker
into those who talk about him. They say things like they think he has no soul, that his, quote, eyes are black, end quote, with evil. Oh.
00:46:54
Speaker
Now, the reason this same group is linked to two theories is that either Ashley's death was accidental, which is theory three, or it was intentional, which is theory four. I feel like we would have to have a lot of missing information for it to be purposeful, but I'll let you get there. Okay. So one person who Alexis spoke with
00:47:22
Speaker
had admitted to her that another group of individuals had called him, saying that Ash owed money, and so did her love interest, the last person to see Ash alive. So the love interest, though, is part of this group? Yes, not the group who made the phone call, but the group who received the phone call. But the killer group. Mm-hmm. Okay.
00:47:51
Speaker
They basically, they called this individual who Alexis spoke with and said that both Ash and this other individual owed money and that in essence, they wanted the individual that Alexis spoke with to put a hit on them. Alexis said that they actually called it, she used the term a quote unquote minute.
00:48:19
Speaker
which I'd never heard that term, but purportedly, they would severely be beaten for an entire minute. And that seems very specific, right, that terminology. So if- And also, a minute doesn't feel like a long time, but it is a long time. It really is. I mean, especially if something that- Terrific. Right, is happening. Yeah, just sucks doing that minute plank. I can't imagine anything worse than that.
00:48:48
Speaker
Yeah, so if this is the case, perhaps the intention was to scare the two of them and not murder. Oh, and then Ashley died. Yeah, that Ashley died in the process. Which is horrific. Right. And the other person with Ash in this right again, the last person to see Ash alive in this theory was also according to one news story that I read missing briefly.
00:49:18
Speaker
When they returned, did they have wounds? Not that I read. So that's my first thought to Maggie, is could that person have been missing so wounds could heal? And then that person couldn't necessarily be linked to the accidental death? And I asked Alexis if that other individual
00:49:38
Speaker
had any details. The other one, right, Ash's love interest, had any details, but Alexis said that that individual, for all intents and purposes, said to her that they didn't think that they would be believed even if they did talk.
00:49:58
Speaker
Which is kind of sad because like, I mean, that's the same I feel like with some of our students because they have a certain like reputation. People automatically just disregard anything they say. When in reality, some things they're saying are true. Exactly. And so if this theory is true, then just like the La Verdeer case, there would be many people involved.
00:50:23
Speaker
right? Because there's a hit. I mean, this was a, would have been a group of people descending upon Ash and this other person, right? So many people involved and thus many people with answers.
Continuing Investigation and Public Support
00:50:36
Speaker
Right. Alexis actually thinks that
00:50:41
Speaker
this theory might also explain the purse showing up on uh ash's mom's porch because she wonders did one of those individuals maybe someone who ash knew feel bad about what happened especially if it were accidental and at least cared enough to bring the purse and drop it off which would also explain why there was no knock on the door see i took it kind of the other way like i took it as are they dropping off her purse as like a
00:51:11
Speaker
We have her, you know, and you all day. Well, and that could be it too. And that's theory four, was Ash's death intentional? So did someone kind of lure her out with this primary goal of death? That same group of people,
00:51:32
Speaker
certainly have other intentional deaths associated with them. According to my sources, the leader of this group's girlfriend and another girl were killed in his house and then the house set on fire right before Christmas of last year. So like this area though,
00:51:54
Speaker
And you may have already answered this, but this would be like you said, you could commit a murder here and then go back to your town because there are restrictions. They're like loopholes. Well, that would be if the murder were committed by a non-indigenous person, then there are those loopholes.
00:52:18
Speaker
So people on the street speculate whether those two women who were killed maybe had insider information about Ashley, and that's why they lost their lives. So they were killed after she went missing? Oh, these two were killed right after Christmas this past year. Oh. Oh. Yeah.
00:52:42
Speaker
And even that leader's sister has been charged with first degree murder and the death of another friend. So that's why I said, when people in the town, you would say, okay, what people would you suspect as being involved in a murder would probably name the same people. How did Ashley even get involved with this group of people?
00:53:12
Speaker
They are, I don't know if they're acquaintances or friends of that love interest. Oh, this just is scary. Mm hmm. So whoever has information about Ashley and there are people who do, Alexis believes that they're likely too fearful of sharing what they know. Well, yeah. That they'll be killed as well.
00:53:39
Speaker
Don't blame them right what they don't realize though is that even without sharing the truth they know They're slowly being killed from the inside with guilt. Yeah, that's true and that pain can be worse than the alternative So Maggie, which theory do you find most likely? So without
00:54:06
Speaker
I feel like we're, well obviously yes, but I feel like we're missing so many details. It makes it hard to really have a solid idea of which theory I stand behind. I don't believe the runaway. I don't know that I believe theory too. Right. I feel like Ashley's family would have known if
00:54:37
Speaker
She, well, like had her behavior changed any? I just know that, cause I asked that question. I just know that her, the circumstances in her life had changed. I don't, I don't know necessarily if her behavior had changed as much as just circumstances. Okay. Cause if she had like, like had changed behavior, then we could say maybe she was,
00:55:07
Speaker
you know, maybe she did owe money to this group of people and they did put a hit out on her. But I feel like we're missing a lot to be able to positively get behind this theory. But then I also think we're missing too much to say that her death was intentional because we don't know the degree of her involvement with this group or why really they would have felt the need to kill her.
00:55:37
Speaker
So I think it is three or four. I just don't know which one. Right. Eugene Arkhand, a prominent Cree elder, member of the Indian Residential School Survivor Committee, and Ashley Morin's grandfather.
00:55:52
Speaker
seems to feel that whoever caused his granddaughter's disappearance is a male in the community. As reported in an article in the Star Phoenix published on July 10th, 2020, which states that he, quote, told those gathered that he feels hurt and wounded, that colonialism has caused society to shift to a patriarchal rather than a matriarchal one. And it's time for men to smarten up when it comes to how they treat women, end quote.
00:56:22
Speaker
He made this comment to a large group of people gathered to take part in a march to raise awareness for Ashley's case by walking the roughly 85 miles, 140 kilometers, from the Saskatoon police station to North Battleford, a walk that takes three days to complete.
00:56:41
Speaker
The group, fittingly, made the trek dressed in red, the color the spirits can see, the color that represents missing and murdered indigenous women, the color that is, in itself, a call to action and a call for protection, an act of resilience. Family friend Krista Fox told CBC News on July 10, 2019,
00:57:03
Speaker
Words that illustrate that very concept, quote, we are not giving up. We haven't lost hope and we will bring her home no matter what that looks like. We will never give up. We will continue our fight until we bring our beautiful girl home, end quote.
00:57:19
Speaker
Fox later told Nathaniel Dove of Global News in an article published on July 25th, 2020, quote, it's almost like we carried this weight alone for so long, just the heaviness of it. It just feels good to have somebody help carry this weight with us, end quote.
00:57:37
Speaker
Sleuthhounds, let's let the Morin family and the families of other missing and murdered indigenous women know that the weight is not theirs alone to bear, and that we will carry their stories as well, to remove as much of the weight as we can, so they don't have to carry it alone.
00:57:55
Speaker
The Coalition to Stop Violence Against Native Women cites that homicide is the third leading cause of death among 10 to 24-year-olds and the fifth leading cause of death for indigenous women aged 25 to 34. So I'd like to end with the words of Tenaya Winder in her poem, Sonnet MCLXXXI, for the Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women on Turtle Island.
00:58:25
Speaker
not when or where, but how.
00:58:29
Speaker
Did we lose you in between last scene? The words become elegy. Echoing sidewalks and streets. Hand out your picture to strangers. Posted on post office bulletin boards. Missing. As if it were destination. A place one goes to disappear in invisible cities. Except there's no hero, like in the movies. No ads, mainstream coverage or TV shows to show our story.
00:58:58
Speaker
Are we invisible if no one knows why? When 1,181 women were taken, did eyes cease to have vision or pay attention to a body being swallowed up?
00:59:11
Speaker
Those left behind who remember you continue on a mission, an endless search of the cities in which we loved and love you. We will never forget. We demand for you action, words, even a poem that ends your lives matter too." End quote.
00:59:35
Speaker
Anyone with information about Ashley Morin's activities, who she may have been with, or details about what may have happened between July 6th and July 10th, 2018 are asked to call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477. The family is continuing to offer a $25,000 reward to any tips that lead to closure in Ashley's case.
01:00:04
Speaker
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01:00:34
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.