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E021: The Fandel Children
1.9k Plays6 years ago
Alaska is known as the final frontier--where nature is the biggest threat. Our story today brings us back to reality. Man is the biggest threat, and, sadly, two kids meet their fate in that final frontier.
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Transcript
Introduction and Pandemic Reflections
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Coffee and Cases. I'm super anxious to share another cold case with you and spread awareness for our victims today. Sadly, Allison and I are still practicing social distancing and I hope that you are too so that we can flatten the curve. So this week's episode will be done solo yet again.
00:00:18
Speaker
If you're new to coffee and cases, please know that our podcast has changed slightly as our world is adjusting to COVID-19. While we're being asked to keep our distance from others, to stay inside when possible, and to not gather in large groups, we ask that you bear with us as we make those adjustments.
00:00:36
Speaker
We're keeping faith that all of this will end soon and that our lives will start returning to normal. We appreciate you all so much, and we want to continue to provide you with cases. After all, that's our goal, right? That we bring awareness to these people. Thank you for bearing with us and for understanding we care about you. Stay together, united in human spirit, even if not physically, and stay safe. Now, let's get into this week's episode.
Childhood Memories and Pandemic Contrast
00:01:02
Speaker
As the world is dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic, I find myself thinking of simpler times. As you can probably guess from the episodes I do, I'm a big family person. So a lot of my favorite memories involve my family. My family didn't have a lot of money when I was growing up.
00:01:19
Speaker
But my mom had ways of making the ordinary amazing. We lived on the mountainside and what Eastern Kentucky people like myself would call a hauler. In the spring, when we would get big rains, my mom would pack a picnic for us and we would hike into the hills to where water ran down the mountainside. We would sit on this huge rock near a small waterfall and snack on pickles my mommy had canned and cheese. We would pick wildflowers on the way down and sometimes make them into crowns.
00:01:47
Speaker
My cousins and I would spend summers catching tadpoles and playing in the creek that ran by my aunt's house. She was the last house on her road, and the creek that ran by her patio was clear and cold, even in the heat of summer. I can remember handmade quilts filled with fresh beans for my puppy's garden.
00:02:06
Speaker
My mom, my mommy, and I would snap beans in preparation for canning. We would scold tomatoes to make juice for the winter months. I would spend countless hours trailing behind my poppy barefoot in his garden as he planted cucumbers and potatoes. In the winter time, my mom and I would gather kindling for a coal and wood burning fireplace. I remember my mom carrying coal up our hill in the snow to ensure my brother and I stayed warm.
00:02:31
Speaker
She would fix my hair in front of the fire when I was little and she would warm my clothes there. Life was easier then. The life of our victims in today's episode reminds me of simpler times. A time when you didn't need to lock your door. A time when you didn't need to lock your door. A time when you trusted strangers. An easier time.
Introduction of Cold Case: The Fandel Kids
00:02:52
Speaker
Our victims today were young, 13 and 8, and I'm sure living that carefree life we all associate with that age. I picture their life much like mine, exploring the woods surrounding their house, playing outside, and really just being kids. Alaska is the final frontier, but for our victims today, it was more than that. For our victims, Alaska was the final place they were seen alive.
00:03:50
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:03:59
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families with each case. We encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, coffee and cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:04:27
Speaker
Week after week, we've asked you guys to take time to rate our show so that we can reach the goal of 150 ratings on iTunes. We aren't there yet, but we're getting closer. We now have 85 ratings and we're super excited and we thank you so much. Allison and I have already started talking about the case we want to do for the bonus episode and I know that you guys will love it.
00:04:48
Speaker
So please, if you're listening and you love us, give us that five star rating and tell your friends about us. We promise to let you know as soon as we reach that goal. So keep checking our Facebook page and our Instagram page. And of course, listen in each week.
Family Background and Living Situation
00:05:02
Speaker
Our story today takes place in Sterling, Alaska, some 136 miles south of Anchorage. I'm going to be honest with you all, I'm not very familiar with Alaska other than what I would have learned in school, so I spent a good amount of time Googling Sterling, Alaska. My research turned up some interesting facts. The population size of Sterling is about 5,600 people, and I spent about an hour looking at homes in Sterling on Zillow because who wouldn't do that?
00:05:29
Speaker
And it's in this small town in Alaska that 13-year-old Scott and 8-year-old Amy are last seen in September 1978. You see sleuth hounds. Scott and Amy lived with their mom, Margaret, in a small cabin in a heavily wooded area. So wooded, in fact, the two-bedroom cabin couldn't be seen from the road.
00:05:48
Speaker
Now, I find this comforting as I absolutely, positively hate living in a subdivision. Growing up, I'm pretty sure I basically lived in a jungle since I couldn't even see my neighbor's house and I liked it. But I also lived surrounded by family that would probably creep me out if I were totally alone with no one close to me today. Scott and Amy only had their mom as their parents had recently divorced and dad Roger had moved to Arizona.
00:06:15
Speaker
Roger wasn't Scott's biological dad, but had known him since he was two and raised him as his own. According to what happened to the Fandale children by Robin Barefield, the children's parents had recently gone through that bitter divorce. Their father Roger loved them, but was unfaithful to his wife. Margaret had began drinking more alcohol as Roger strayed and finally left her.
00:06:38
Speaker
Margaret, a waitress, worked long hours to pay the bills, and when Roger moved to Arizona, the kids were often unsupervised in that small cabin in the woods.
00:06:48
Speaker
While Scott was only 13, according to many accounts, he was pretty mature for his age, and Margaret felt fine leaving him alone to babysit his sister. I think back to the times my brother babysit me. He was nine years older than me, so when I started kindergarten, he started high school, and he honestly didn't babysit me that much, mainly because I was literally attached to my mother's hip, but he did have to babysit me occasionally, and he would tell me things that would send me into fits.
00:07:17
Speaker
like I vividly remember these. He would tell me that my mom was never coming home and that she didn't love me and all of this stuff. But just like my brother was fiercely protective of me, Scott was fiercely protective of Amy. You can tell by looking at their pictures that they were both so super sweet and I'll be sure to post their pictures as well as the age progression photos of them to both our Facebook and Instagram pages.
00:07:42
Speaker
On September 4th, and again, I know this happened to me like the last episode that I did, but the dates were conflicting again. Like NBC and Charlie Project used the dates that I used, but then some of the other sources that I talk about in the episode today use some dates that are like two days later. So I went with the Charlie Project dates.
00:08:09
Speaker
But on September 4th, 1978, that was no normal day for the Fandale kids. As I mentioned before, the Fandale home consisted of Scott, Amy, and mom Margaret. But according to the article, Amy Lee and Scott Curtis Fandale, Scott had recorded in his journal that their mother's sister, so their aunt Kathy, was moving from Illinois to live with them. And as you can imagine, Sleuth Hounds, the kids were absolutely positively thrilled.
00:08:38
Speaker
Kathy arrived on time and after dinner she, Margaret, and the kids headed to a bar called Good Time Charlie's. The bar had video games to entertain the kids so Scott and Amy played video games and drank some cokes while their mom and aunt drank beer and talked.
00:08:55
Speaker
Now according to several reports, the family stayed at Good Time Charlie's until 10 p.m. Now this to me seems a little late given the fact that the kids had school the next day but you know perhaps their school operated on a different time block than traditional schools so for the time being I'm going to withhold my judgment. According to what happened to the Fandel children by Robin Barefield,
00:09:19
Speaker
Around 10 PM, Margaret and Kathy took the kids home and then they drove to another bar. Margaret told the kids not to stay up late and Kathy told them to lock the door. The final comment and a bunch of sources I saw actually made Scott laugh because it was ironic as their door didn't have a lock.
The Night Before the Disappearance
00:09:39
Speaker
I think in today's time, we can't imagine living somewhere and not locking the door. I know I'm obsessive about locking the door when I'm home alone. I will check it and recheck it and check it and recheck it. But honestly, I too grew up in a house where the door didn't lock. So sometimes I wonder what's changed that makes us think leaving the door unlocked is so outrageous. But now I couldn't imagine leaving kids alone without locking the door like my mom did with me all of those times.
00:10:07
Speaker
I know I mentioned this before, but the Fandel home couldn't be seen from the road, so I'm sure that also brought some comfort to mom Margaret when she and Kathy left the kids alone. Despite the fact that they lived out in the woods, the family did have a neighbor close by. A mere 200 yards from their home lived the Lepton family.
00:10:26
Speaker
And Scott and Amy were actually very close to the Leptons' five children, according to many sources that I read. And just like you would expect, Luthounds, as soon as Mom and Aunt Kathy were out of sight, Scott and Amy headed to the Leptons to play, even though, by this point, it was after 10 o'clock at night. I read on one account that Scott and Amy played with the Lepton kids for about an hour before their mom sent Scott and Amy home. And sadly, this is where our story takes a turn for the worse.
00:10:56
Speaker
With mom Margaret working a lot, Scott and Amy kept almost every light in their house on when they were home alone. And I understand this. I remember the very first time that my mom and dad ever left me at home alone, like overnight. I was in high school, so much older than Scott and Amy. And I'm pretty sure I was like a senior in high school.
00:11:19
Speaker
and they had to go to like an overnight trip in Tennessee and they left me home alone. And you know, I wasn't a rule breaker, so I didn't have anyone over or anything like that. And when it came bedtime, I literally slept with every single light on in our house and I slept on the couch with the door locked and I brought all three of our dogs in to keep me safe that night while I slept. So I get the light thing.
00:11:46
Speaker
Someone reported that at 11.45, they noticed lights coming from the vicinity of Amy and Scott's home. So we know around 11.45, things were still okay. Margaret and Kathy returned home at 2 a.m. And honestly, Sleuthhounds, the next few moments are going to leave you scratching your heads, or at least they did me. Margaret and Kathy stagger through the door to a pitch black house.
00:12:15
Speaker
Here should have been some red flags for mom. Red flag number one. You know both of your kids are scared of the dark. You know that any other time you come home that late, all the lights in your house are on. This is weird, Margaret. You should have realized that.
00:12:36
Speaker
Red flag number two, Scott is extremely mature. So mature that you trust him to watch his baby sister as you bar hop with your sister or work late hours. So mature that he cooks for his little sister. So the fact that when you walk into a pitch black kitchen, there's a pot of water boiling on the stove, a package of macaroni open and tomatoes sitting there should have raised alarm for you.
00:13:05
Speaker
I read in several accounts that Scott loved a bedtime snack of macaroni and tomatoes. And honestly, being Appalachian American, I identify with this.
00:13:15
Speaker
If you've never heard of macaroni and tomatoes, please, please, please, please indulge me after the show's over and Google it because I promise you macaroni and tomatoes are the ultimate comfort food. They are a staple in any Appalachian home and my mouth is literally watering talking about them. That's like the food of my childhood.
00:13:39
Speaker
So it's clear to me that something or someone has interrupted him, but sadly, sleuth hounds, it isn't clear to Margaret. She just thinks that Scott and Amy must be staying the night with the leptin kids because you know your mature son would leave the stove on when he goes to his sleepover. So Kathy and Margaret just go to bed assuming that Scott and Amy are sleeping peacefully next door.
00:14:06
Speaker
The morning of September 5th rolls around. Margaret has to be at work at 8 30 that morning. She leaves still under the impression that her kids are safe next door. But she's upset with the fact that her kids haven't checked in with her. So upset, in fact, that she calls school to speak with Amy. It's then that she learns from the school that Amy and Scott haven't been there all day. According to the Robin Barefield
00:14:33
Speaker
article, Margaret is worried but her boss won't let her leave until her shift ends that afternoon. I know it's really easy for us now to say what Margaret could have done or what Margaret should have done
00:14:47
Speaker
but we weren't in her shoes at that time. I know we talk a lot about not judging people on this show, but if this article is correct, and I believe that it is, Margaret worked for a horrible person. What boss, if you were like, hey, I can't find my kids, would be like, I don't really care, you're working the rest of your shift. Like if you work for somebody like that, you need to quit.
00:15:10
Speaker
There's nothing more important than protecting your kids. I'm not a mom, though I hoped to be one day. And I would hope that nothing would stop me from protecting my kids. I would hope that I would have walked out. But Margaret didn't, nor did she call Kathy to let her know the kids were missing.
00:15:29
Speaker
Hence the reason Kathy is super surprised when neither of the kids get off the bus that afternoon. She learns from the Lipton kids that Scott and Amy weren't at school that day and that they had not seen them since they went home around 11 the night before. Kathy calls Margaret panicked and Margaret brushes home.
Investigation and Theories
00:15:52
Speaker
To me, that's odd. You can leave now, but you couldn't leave earlier.
00:15:59
Speaker
But again, I wasn't there, so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. Alaska State Troopers are called at 5.15, about 15 hours after Amy and Scott went missing.
00:16:13
Speaker
Sleuthhounds, we know those first 48 hours are critical. According to North American investigations, quote, the first 48 hours are the most important in a missing person investigation. During this window, it is easier for the police to track down leads and chase possible suspects. Undoubtedly, after the first few days,
00:16:37
Speaker
Finding a missing person becomes a lot harder as the trail goes cold. In some instances, the trail may remain cold for many months or years unless the victims get a lucky break, end quote. But we have now wasted 15 hours of that precious 48. There was no sign of forced entry at the home.
00:17:02
Speaker
Weirdly though, bullet casings were found outside the cabin, but it's unknown if they were related to the children's disappearance.
00:17:11
Speaker
At first, Margaret suspects her ex-husband, Roger, and I mean, I get it. He left his kids and probably hadn't seen them since January. And let's be honest, Margaret isn't living the best life and probably needed to work on herself a little bit. So I can understand that he would be concerned about his kids. I'm not sure he would abduct his kids. And we will talk about that towards the end.
00:17:33
Speaker
According to, children vanished from cabin by Cat Lee. Quote, volunteers and search and rescue dogs combed through the woods and the nearby Scout Lake was dragged. As soon as Roger heard about the incident, he flew to Alaska to assist in the search. End quote. Roger actually is eventually ruled out as a suspect, but we're gonna come back to that.
00:17:54
Speaker
Police even go as far as to alert the Canadian authorities to be on the lookout for anyone trying to cross the border with kids that resemble Scott and Amy.
00:18:05
Speaker
No one believed the kids would have left on their own. They loved their mom and wouldn't put her through that. If something had happened and maybe they were lost, Scott had passed a wilderness survival course, so many had faith that the kids would be found alive. I didn't know there was a such thing as a wilderness survival course, but perhaps it's something that I need to look into as I'm pretty positive I would not survive in a zombie apocalypse.
00:18:30
Speaker
Sadly, Sleuthhounds, Scott and Amy have never been found. So what could have happened to them? Okay, so there are a couple different theories that I want to talk about that could possibly explain what happened to Scott and Amy. There are three that I'm gonna talk about today. And honestly, I think all three are pretty plausible. But I don't really know if one like fit fits, you know what I mean?
00:18:59
Speaker
And I want your all's opinion on this in the comment section on the pictures that we post on social media because this case has really kept me thinking. So theory one, Scott and Amy disappeared in the height of the Alaskan oil boom. Pipeline was being laid during that time and a lot of really sketchy people floated in and out of bars in Sterling, Alaska.
00:19:22
Speaker
Was it possible a creep had heard Kathy and Margaret talking about the kids being home alone or maybe heard them saying they were gonna take the kids home and they were followed? Did someone take advantage of circumstances to claim two new victims? Okay, that's theory number one. Theory number two. Could Scott and Amy have been taken by carnival workers?
00:19:48
Speaker
Police interviewed two carnival workers from the East coast who'd visited Sterling that summer for the fair. Now this blows my mind because I'm not a very trusting person when it comes to strangers. Clearly I do a podcast on cold cases. So, you know, but sleuth hounds, Margaret allowed these two men to sleep in her house for a night while they were in town that summer. Weird.
00:20:17
Speaker
An eyewitness reports to police that he saw a sedan speed away from the family home the night that Amy and Scott went missing. State troopers are actually able to trace that vehicle back to those two carnival workers.
00:20:32
Speaker
The men admitted they'd been in the area of the Fandel cabin and had considered stopping, but they said that they were in Sterling after Scott and Amy disappeared. When police re-interviewed that witness, the man admitted that he could have maybe seen it the night after the kids vanished. And so that theory kind of fizzled out. Theory number three.
00:20:59
Speaker
Could Scott and Amy have been abducted by family? According to the article, children vanish from cabin. Terry, Scott and Amy's maternal uncle, is absolutely certain that Roger and his relatives are involved. And remember, Roger is the dad. He believes Amy is still alive, but Scott somehow died not long after being abducted.
00:21:28
Speaker
The main theory is, quote, Roger got someone, possibly a relative, to abduct the children. It is believed they were raised by the father's family, or at least Amy was, end quote. The Charlie Project actually cites a similar theory.
00:21:47
Speaker
Years after, this is a quote, years after the children's disappearances, a woman who had been Roger's girlfriend in 1978 allegedly asked for $5,000 from Roger's uncle in exchange for her telling him the children's fate. Roger has not been charged in connection with Scott and Amy's apparent abductions, however, and neither has anyone else, end quote.
00:22:12
Speaker
So Amy is believed to be living in a couple different places, possibly in Alaska, possibly California, or possibly Montana. But Scott is believed to have been killed shortly after being abducted. I don't know like where the evidence comes to support this theory. Like
00:22:35
Speaker
Who's this girlfriend with the $5,000? I don't know, I just feel like that theory has a lot of holes, but I guess all three of these theories have a lot of holes in them. You'll really have to tell me what you think, because I don't know. And there's one more strange thing about this case.
New Leads and Social Media Discovery
00:22:56
Speaker
It's weird, people. And Amy Fandell Johnson was found on Facebook.
00:23:05
Speaker
Now I did not creep her on Facebook. I probably will at some point just because, you know, it's interesting and I need to know. But people say that she looks strikingly similar to the age progression photos released of Amy. And again, I am gonna post those on Facebook and Instagram for you guys. So if you're feeling sleuthy,
00:23:32
Speaker
You can always stalk this girl on Facebook if you want it and see if you think they have a resemblance. I don't know if I'll go down that road. Stranger still though, this Amy on Facebook is around the same age as Amy from the case would have been and is from Illinois and is friends with Roger Fandel on Facebook.
00:24:02
Speaker
It's just weird. Too many coincidences. It's weird. So what do you guys think? Sleuth Hounds, I'm still kind of up in the air.
Host's Reflections and Call to Action
00:24:14
Speaker
I almost think it had to be someone the kids knew because I sort of feel like
00:24:22
Speaker
they left willingly if it was like a stranger i feel like the inside of the cabin would have had more evidence of a struggle and it didn't but then i keep going back to the boiling water on the stove because i feel like if it was a family member and they were telling you like they needed you to come with them like you would turn the stove off
00:24:42
Speaker
because I feel like you wouldn't feel as rushed. Whereas if it was like a random stranger and they abducted you, you would feel more, you know, you would feel rushed and panicked and like, you're not gonna think to turn off the stove. So I don't know which way I'm leaning. And sadly, we may never know what happened in this case.
00:25:05
Speaker
I watched my mom grieve when my brother died in a car accident. Just like Margaret, my mom thought my brother was safe at home. He was home after serving two tours in Iraq. If he could survive that, he could survive anything, right? Who would have thought a Bronze Star war hero would die in a car accident?
00:25:29
Speaker
I watched my aunt silently cry at my cousin's funeral when he died unexpectedly of a heart attack in his thirties. I know they will never get over that heartache. When Anthony and I miscarried earlier this year, I didn't know pain like that existed. I will forever have a hole in my heart and live a life of what ifs. The pain of losing a child is forever.
00:25:57
Speaker
I can't imagine Margaret's pain. Unlike my mom, my aunt, and myself, Margaret doesn't know. She lives every single day wanting to hear about the fate of her children. She had no true mourning process, no true grieving. I'm sure she holds on to that small amount of hope. She can't move on. There's no way that she could give up. Margaret was struggling back in 1978.
00:26:26
Speaker
But since then, has sobered up and remarried. She did everything she could to make Scott and Amy proud. There's nothing in this world that should keep a good mother from her children.
00:26:39
Speaker
I'm sure Margaret prayed for her children. Maybe she anxiously waited each month for that positive pregnancy test. And now she's waiting again. Waiting for answers. Maybe someone listening has the answers to turn this case around. Please, Sleuthhounds. Check out the pictures I post later today. See if Scott and Amy look familiar. See if something jogs your memory.
00:27:07
Speaker
If you have any information that can help solve this case, please contact the Alaska State Troopers at 907-262-4453.
00:27:22
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
00:27:52
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.