Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: I am Josh Roop.
Speaker: We are on episode 110.
Speaker: With me, my other host.
Speaker: The Chewbacca to your Han Solo.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: Well, I've been listening to a lot of Slam lately.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: It's awesome.
Speaker: Ron's the host and Bruce is the co-host.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Trust me.
Speaker: I'm surprised you haven't picked up on that before.
Speaker: Yeah, but in the last couple of episodes, it's very distinct that
Speaker: Ron is the host and Bruce is the other host, not the co-host, the other.
Speaker: Oh, see, I'm okay with being a sidekick.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: It's all good.
Speaker: You do the editing.
Speaker: And so I'm good with that.
Speaker: If I do the editing, I'm good.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I got a call yesterday.
Speaker: FedEx called me.
Speaker: Iron Maiden Pro is going to be at my house on Friday.
Speaker: I'm so excited.
Speaker: I called Zach Many.
Speaker: He helped me go through the whole process.
Speaker: Man, it is painless every time I use Flipping Out Pinball.
Speaker: If you're not using Flipping Out Pinball, you're just causing yourself more headache.
Speaker: Really, that's what it comes down to.
Speaker: The shipping's smooth.
Speaker: The games show up pristine.
Speaker: I don't know how Zach does it, but he does it.
Speaker: It's great.
Speaker: And at the end of June, my Foo Fighters is showing up.
Speaker: So I'm stoked.
Speaker: And maybe I won't have to worry about Deadpool because I heard that production-wise it got pushed back.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: But if you're looking for that next pinball machine, if you're looking for a Godzilla topper, if you're looking for some of those sweet accessories, give Zach and Nicole many at flipping out a call or like we do hit them up through Facebook and send them messages.
Speaker: Be kind though.
Speaker: Don't message them at like two in the morning.
Speaker: It does happen.
Speaker: And I think, okay, I will say I have been guilty about sending you messages at random times because my call schedule is so weird, but, but I totally get it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I, I also have another flipping up pinball story.
Speaker: So my friend who has that premium Valley Williams collection, he sold his house.
Speaker: And so he moved and I've got a, I've got a terrible right wrist right now.
Speaker: that has been healing.
Speaker: Uh, I, I heard it playing tennis and it's been a while.
Speaker: So I went over to his house and he had these guys that were like, you know, 22 and looked like they, they escaped the Jersey shore extra group.
Speaker: And they were, so they were carrying up all these games from his basement and, you know, around the back and it was huge shipped them over to his new house, but his new house, he's moving to a very small house that, uh, has a, um, it hasn't, uh,
Speaker: a staircase that has a left-hand turn.
Speaker: And we were thinking, well, okay.
Speaker: So I brought my Escalera and five pinball machines down the stairs with a 90 degree turn in there in 45 minutes.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: And so, man, if you have not used one of these things, it is totally worth it.
Speaker: It's only a Mandalorian topper.
Speaker: Thank, thank me later.
Speaker: Definitely ask Zach and Nicole, if you are, if you are looking for easy ways of moving machines.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: And I agree with you.
Speaker: That's the only way to go.
Speaker: I have a couple of appliance dollies.
Speaker: I have an actual pinball dolly because I don't have stairs between my pinball machines and the outside.
Speaker: So yeah,
Speaker: I don't have to worry about stairs, but when I do, I have an appliance dolly.
Speaker: I get called when, when my cousin needs us to move.
Speaker: Yeah, sure.
Speaker: But having something that walks up and down those stairs was so good.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: Well, we've had, it's been kind of an interesting couple of weeks.
Speaker: Yeah, it seems like every, it was like a tsunami.
Speaker: Everything came in at once.
Speaker: And then right now we're dealing with, I would say, lesser news releases.
Speaker: I mean, we're going to talk about accessories, toppers and all that kind of stuff today.
Speaker: But yeah, it is.
Speaker: It's been different.
Speaker: It's been a different.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, also one thing I do want to point out.
Speaker: So I actually went to our podcast evaluation and not evaluation, the ratings on iTunes.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And we need some more ratings because the last one is like three years old.
Speaker: And one of them talked about one of us breathing like Darth Vader throughout the podcast, which I thought was kind of hilarious.
Speaker: But it's yeah, seriously, we would love it if you guys just go to whatever podcast thing.
Speaker: and drop us a rating.
Speaker: Obviously appreciate five star, but we appreciate feedback in any ways of having to make the show better.
Speaker: So let's get some new ratings on there.
Speaker: And the reason why I say this is because podcasts come and go.
Speaker: But a lot of times when you're looking for that new podcast, you're
Speaker: A total nerd rabbit hole here.
Speaker: I have started rewatching Babylon five, which I haven't seen for like 30 years.
Speaker: And I would say I'm a marginal sci-fi fan, but I, but I remember enjoying it back in college.
Speaker: And I found a podcast that has,
Speaker: It's Babylon five for the first time.
Speaker: And they're going through it for the first time.
Speaker: And so it's really interesting.
Speaker: And they even pointed out that, hey, when you're looking for a podcast, a lot of times it doesn't really help out with the search algorithms.
Speaker: But if a podcast that you look up and you're like, I want to check those guys out, guys or girls, if it has more ratings or more reviews, then you're more likely to check that out.
Speaker: So anyway, I just appreciate it if you could go and like and subscribe and all that fun stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, also hit up This Week in Pinball.
Speaker: They still have their creators database and send us one there too as well.
Speaker: Speaking of...
Speaker: this week in pinball.
Speaker: There's also silver ball swag.
Speaker: If you want to check out some more shirts, the shoes are just the shoes on my shoes on fire.
Speaker: Shoes on fire.
Speaker: I can't wait for expo this year.
Speaker: We're going to, we'll be able to tell it was like the hats.
Speaker: You can go through expo.
Speaker: Oh, yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And then, uh, now it's going to be the shoes, which is awesome.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so I, if I've learned one thing about pinball swag is people don't, don't really want shirts.
Speaker: They want something unique.
Speaker: Well, they also don't want crap.
Speaker: The bottom line is if you have a, if you put out cheap stuff and then I totally get it.
Speaker: Everybody has their own way of doing things.
Speaker: But my personal take is that I don't want to wear something that feels, it feels like a promo thing that costs five bucks to make.
Speaker: The shirt's not comfortable.
Speaker: The hat's not comfortable or whatever.
Speaker: So we've certainly gone out of our way to make sure that we're,
Speaker: we're putting something that you would, you would be happy wearing every day.
Speaker: And really to be fair, we're making very little on any of this stuff.
Speaker: I give out more stuff than we do anything.
Speaker: So if anything, we're net negative.
Speaker: And so we just want, you know, we just want people to have fun.
Speaker: Have a fun.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: That is silverballswag.com slash loser kid.
Speaker: As simple as that.
Speaker: And yeah.
Speaker: Also, I want to give another shout out to slam tilt podcast.
Speaker: I was listening to them today.
Speaker: They are wrapping up there by, by time we air this, it'll be done, but they were doing there for Lyman sheets, donations to the suicide prevention program.
Speaker: And, uh, it sounded, they, they gave us a shout out.
Speaker: They give the lines shout out.
Speaker: Cause we had them on the last episode talking about Harry Potter.
Speaker: So I just wanted to say thanks to Ron and Bruce for giving us a shout out.
Speaker: It's awesome what you guys are doing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, uh, and we have, we have certainly been an advocate for people with, um, the one thing that we share in life, it seems to me is that the older I get, the more everybody feels isolated.
Speaker: And so I, I, I'm going a little bit out in the weeds.
Speaker: And so, so at church, we were talking about the, the 99 and the, the sheep that's, that's lost.
Speaker: And, you know, the shepherd goes and finds the sheep.
Speaker: And I said, how many of us identify with the 99?
Speaker: Nobody, we all, we all identify with, with the lost one.
Speaker: And so if you're feeling that one,
Speaker: recognize you're not alone to it's, there is absolutely no shame in saying I need some mental health issues because again, your brain is just like any other part of the body and it can have some issues that have things that need to be, need to be addressed.
Speaker: And counseling can help talking to friends, reaching out.
Speaker: And if there's anything else, if you're thinking of harming yourself, please don't and reach out.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Well, check up on your friends, laughter.
Speaker: I don't know if we talked about this last week was rough, man.
Speaker: I, my mother-in-law went in for urgent surgery.
Speaker: A good friend of mine, his wife passed away.
Speaker: And another friend had his, his mom had to go in for surgery as well.
Speaker: And so it was just kind of a weird week last week.
Speaker: You just got to check up on people, you know, life, life can change a blink.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We, we went down to say George to help out with some family health issues.
Speaker: So yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: Let's get on to, we want to kind of review some Harry Potter thoughts.
Speaker: There were some extra thoughts.
Speaker: It's really been on the minds of everyone.
Speaker: I guess our episode kind of cracks some of the mystery.
Speaker: We've been talked about throughout a couple different podcasts about what the line said, because Christian Line used to do a show, Christian and Sarah did, called The Super Awesome Pinball Show with Christopher Franchi.
Speaker: If you don't know Franchi, Franchi did Batman 66.
Speaker: He did Munster's.
Speaker: He now did Godfather with JJP.
Speaker: He's on other future titles throughout the pinball industry because he's also did Galactic Tank Force.
Speaker: And so there were some nuggets that were dropped in there.
Speaker: Like we never said a number, but this is definitely the most expensive license in pinball history.
Speaker: Flat out, bar none.
Speaker: We don't know a number, but we do know that it's probably going to be touted once all this information comes out from Jersey Jack.
Speaker: Beatles was the old benchmark.
Speaker: Yeah, which was a million for the license, right?
Speaker: This eclipses that.
Speaker: It has to.
Speaker: And the bottom line is the Beatles are legendary.
Speaker: Yes, Harry Potter is legendary now.
Speaker: And so it still connects with today's audience.
Speaker: I know the Beatles do, but you're going for a different demographic.
Speaker: You are going to pay a premium for this.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Also, I know Christian kind of talked about it, but it kind of sounds like this license was kind of pulled out from under the rug on Stern.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I thought more about that, though.
Speaker: And so the, the one thing that I keep trying to think about is we know what the public face is, right?
Speaker: We know what the press releases.
Speaker: We know what happens on the surface.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the, the only thing that we know for sure is Joe Cam and cow God on mother's day and posted JJP has the license.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, and the speculation.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So everything else beyond that is why.
Speaker: So I've been thinking a lot more about this.
Speaker: What does, what did Stern know or think about the license that we don't know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so that leads me to think this seems to be an automatic thing.
Speaker: It's like, Hey, do you want to sell tickets to Taylor Swift concerts?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The answer is yes, because you're going to sell a billion of them.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: However, what if there were some caveats to that agreement that made it really not in your best interest to do that?
Speaker: And so the question I have is, okay, there's obviously something and it's not the money.
Speaker: I know, I know that they would make up that money.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So let's even just say if Stern want to sell the game and charge an extra $500 for premium licensing credibility or whatever you want to say, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They could do that and they could sell easily 10,000 Harry Potter games.
Speaker: I, this really has, this theme has the chance of eclipsing, uh, Adam's family.
Speaker: It does because you can like with, uh, with the home market, the way it is, a lot of people that I know have been, are really interested in this game.
Speaker: And I've asked even casual people, um, okay, would you be interested in Harry Potter pen?
Speaker: And every one of them said, yes.
Speaker: So that tells me there's such a huge market for it.
Speaker: So there had to have been something that was an absolute no-go for Stern to decide that this was a license worth passing up.
Speaker: So there are a couple of things we can talk about.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So Wonka is licensed by the same people as Harry Potter.
Speaker: It's Warner Brothers.
Speaker: And we saw how restrictive Wonka was.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I mean, you it's Gene Wilder in the same pose like six different times.
Speaker: And when we talked about this, this is this is like the the lunchbox pose of Gene Wilder.
Speaker: And that was you're right.
Speaker: That was because that's what his family only allowed him to do or the licensing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's not much as of scenes in the game.
Speaker: It's mostly like the chocolate factory working in the background with with the stats up.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So there are a couple of scenes, but not a bunch.
Speaker: And artwork-wise, like I said, they were very restrictive on what they could do.
Speaker: So let's apply that to Harry Potter.
Speaker: A more mega license that's more relevant.
Speaker: If Stern walked into this and saw how Bond went with a very restrictive licensor, we know that the licensor was a pain in the butt on this one.
Speaker: On Bond.
Speaker: On Bond, yes.
Speaker: I wonder if it left a sour taste in their mouth.
Speaker: The other thing, too, is people keep dancing around this.
Speaker: It's something that did tie into it.
Speaker: But yeah, also the bar scene, my understanding there's a restriction to what a game can be on location.
Speaker: I don't know exactly what that restriction is, but it had something to do with Stern didn't feel comfortable doing that to their machine.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: to make up for whatever uh restriction they were coming out for and so i wonder i mean joe talked about this on our show two years ago when we had him on yep he was going for harry potter then he'd been going for harry potter a year before i mean this has been years and years in the making right and so if there were some internal struggle going on at stern and finally jjp's like we'll just meet all your requirements and we'll sign on it right now that could have been it might not been most like the
Speaker: rug out from underneath them but it still was like an internal struggle and honestly if you're having a heck of a time getting this license to agree to stuff and it's taking years and years and years to do so uh this is probably the best opportunity now to get it than any other time so i think it's a good thing jjp got it because if stern can agree on what the game should be right
Speaker: this is probably the only time we would see a Harry Potter game.
Speaker: If that makes sense, because she's been softened up.
Speaker: She's ready to go.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: JJP is the best alternative to Stern for market penetration.
Speaker: That's the bottom line.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Stern, we know is, is the Goliath in the room.
Speaker: And, and, and,
Speaker: JJP is okay.
Speaker: You probably have Chicago game company in there too, but they, they only have one original license that's coming out.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so JJP is the next likely selection just based on they, they do know how to make a quality game and it looks great.
Speaker: And so I, I'm not, I don't think that Stern is going to lose sleep on this.
Speaker: I don't think so either.
Speaker: I bet they wish they could have had it under a situation that works for them.
Speaker: But there's no reason for them to compromise their business model significantly to appease one severe restriction that completely affects their business.
Speaker: So that's why I...
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Full disclosure.
Speaker: I, I appreciate JJP games.
Speaker: I, I do love what they do.
Speaker: Um, I tend to have a little more fun with Stern and so, and I have way more Stern games than I do anything else.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: it has a lot of them have more of that one more play feel.
Speaker: And there is something that makes me want to come back to them.
Speaker: So if it were a JJ, if it were a Stern game, yeah, I'd probably get it unless the cost was super prohibitive for JJP.
Speaker: I want to see what it is because some JJPs I really like and they're fun, but other JJPs, they just haven't hit that center for me.
Speaker: So that's where I'm a little, I'm a little cautious, but that also gives me the freedom to say I want it or I don't, I'm not buying it side unseen.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: And it makes me wonder too, we're going to get into this later about the used market.
Speaker: We're at least two years out from seeing this game.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: So, so I don't know if you remember this before COVID, but the used market on a JJP was pretty comparable to like a new
Speaker: stern pro i mean i could get a hobbit for 6500 with no problem yeah um it just my thing is two years from now everyone's talking about there's definitely be a price increase and especially if this is the most expensive license in pinball history there's going to be some compensation for that and so that's the thing though like how many people are going to buy brand new out of the box or just wait three months till you know you can buy it used off the secondary market
Speaker: Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker: It's hard to predict.
Speaker: People are spending money outside the home again.
Speaker: Travel is way up.
Speaker: So home renovations went crazy.
Speaker: Home entertainment options went crazy during COVID.
Speaker: And we know that
Speaker: there people are going back to concerts.
Speaker: People are, uh, people are taking trips with their family.
Speaker: They're spending their money on other experiences right now.
Speaker: And that really has hurt the home environment.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that may have some long lasting things that COVID may have been a huge bump for pinball, but it could have also been a temporary blip.
Speaker: It's true as well.
Speaker: So I guess overall with, with Harry Potter,
Speaker: We're excited to see what comes.
Speaker: My nervousness is it's quite a high bar regardless.
Speaker: And so I just, I fear for JJP.
Speaker: I hope that it doesn't become one of those situations that no matter what they reveal, it's going to be a failure kind of thing just because there's going to be such high expectations.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And to be fair, like I am of the Star Wars generation.
Speaker: And when Stern was coming out with Star Wars, I was super excited and I didn't buy it.
Speaker: So that, that totally can happen with any license.
Speaker: So if there was, if there was a license that for me would, it would have been automatic as is a star Wars and I did pass on it and that was a stern game.
Speaker: So, you know, there's no guarantee.
Speaker: And then speaking of JJP and future releases, we want to speculate on some upcoming titles.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: It sounds like, I mean, listening to every other podcast and everything coming out, it sounds like Elton John's next from Richie.
Speaker: Yeah, where there's smoke, there's fire.
Speaker: I mean, come on.
Speaker: Yeah, where there's smoke, there's fire.
Speaker: And so I'm really intrigued.
Speaker: I might not be a huge Elton John fan, but I am intrigued about this release because it sort of answers some questions that we've all had.
Speaker: Can Richie design when he doesn't have as restrictive as a build of material?
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Now that Pat Lawler's gone, and we know that Richie wouldn't be taking slack from Lawler on his designs, are we going to see more mechs?
Speaker: Are we going to see a little bit different design to the playfields?
Speaker: Because it feels like the mechs have really been stripped out over the last four titles.
Speaker: They have been some good stuff.
Speaker: Okay, I'm going to push back because Black Knight, that Black Knight mech was really cool.
Speaker: Sorry, I'm talking specifically about Jersey Jack.
Speaker: Okay, okay, yes, yes.
Speaker: Because, I mean, look at Godfather.
Speaker: You do have the sculpts over there.
Speaker: Sure, sure.
Speaker: But it's more of like a pop bumper underneath.
Speaker: it's like an upside down pop bumper is the best way to cheaper mechanism.
Speaker: That's the bottom line.
Speaker: It's not a, it's not a full featured.
Speaker: And I would say that's black night should have been better.
Speaker: I, I think we can agree on that, that black night should have had more the upper play field.
Speaker: was a total disappointment.
Speaker: It's, it was a flat plexiglass with a, uh, um, like a, the Canon launcher thing that really, they should have ripped that, that thing out and put targets up there or put something way more interesting up there.
Speaker: Um, and so the question is, can, uh,
Speaker: can Richie focus himself to use the build of materials in a way that makes sense?
Speaker: Because that's the Achilles heel from my perspective in, in the last few builds that he had.
Speaker: Well, and I guess to my point is so like toy story only had to jump around.
Speaker: I mean, Wonka didn't really have much besides the spinning gobstopper.
Speaker: And I mean, that's cosmetic.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Guns and Roses had the upper play field and some diverters and stuff like that.
Speaker: And it had flippers and whatnot.
Speaker: I mean, really the last game you can think of was Pirates of the Caribbean with the triple spinning disc, which that was then taken out.
Speaker: It had the chest that opened.
Speaker: That was taken out.
Speaker: You had the rocking ship.
Speaker: You have, there was a lot on there.
Speaker: And it feels like they've gravitated away from that.
Speaker: So I'm interested to see what happens with the rich design to see.
Speaker: And don't get me wrong.
Speaker: Mechs don't equal amazing game.
Speaker: Mechs don't equal fun, but it does give you something extra to push you over the edge.
Speaker: But I think when J.J.P.
Speaker: 's case, they're a very immersive experience, whereas Stern games are more of a gameplay experience.
Speaker: And that one's bringing more of that immersive experience, like in Godzilla and Avengers and stuff like that.
Speaker: But for the most part, it's more gameplay versus moments, is how I'm going to put it.
Speaker: And JJP is definitely more moments than it is deep.
Speaker: Well, I don't want to say deep gameplay.
Speaker: The gameplay is definitely different.
Speaker: It's just varied.
Speaker: It feels...
Speaker: JJP feels a little bit more like I'm playing a board game with friends and that's not bad.
Speaker: I like board games.
Speaker: It's, it is a different feel.
Speaker: Stern tends to have, have a little more of a go-kart feel where, you know, it's, it's a little fasty, a little punchier, a little faster, a little punchier.
Speaker: And that's what I like from Stern with hot, with, sorry, JJP, all the games, they are fun, but it is different.
Speaker: It is, it's,
Speaker: It's like I'm doing a role-playing thing.
Speaker: The Hobbit is so immersive with that screen and the movie clips and all that.
Speaker: So great.
Speaker: It still doesn't have the gameplay punch that I wanted.
Speaker: But every time you start the dragon multiball, the smog multiball, it's such a cool moment.
Speaker: I mean,
Speaker: That's the thing is I feel like mechs lend themselves really well to JJP games and I feel like they should start heading in that.
Speaker: Don't get me wrong.
Speaker: Don't cut back.
Speaker: Like I feel like Godfather shoots very well and there's a lot of good shots to it.
Speaker: And I haven't played it yet.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: There could be a complaint that there's almost too many shots because there's like 29 ball paths.
Speaker: But I think we need to go back to those moments.
Speaker: I think that's what made JJP different and special.
Speaker: And I felt like we lost some of that with Toy Story.
Speaker: And we got it back with Guns N' Roses.
Speaker: But it just, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker: I want to see, we're going to see what happens.
Speaker: And it's probably, let's see, when did Godfather release?
Speaker: In March?
Speaker: So that's the third month.
Speaker: If you add nine months, because they're saying about every nine months, we're going to see, we might see Elton John by the end of the year in December, a December release.
Speaker: So, and then speaking of another release, Stern's next one, which smoke with there's fire, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It makes sense, right?
Speaker: We talked about this before at Comic-Con last year.
Speaker: It was super weird that they obviously pushed Venom because they had Ozzy there and Todd McFarlane, who is known for Spider-Man art.
Speaker: And it doesn't take a genius to say, why would these two be together?
Speaker: And it's obvious.
Speaker: With a giant Stern logo right behind them.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: On the booth.
Speaker: Like it wasn't much of a stretch.
Speaker: Like it's obvious that it's going to be something that's Spider-Man related.
Speaker: And rumor has that the Venom is the, is the, is the deal having a comic book version of them.
Speaker: Venom.
Speaker: I actually, I think it's better.
Speaker: It gives him more opportunity.
Speaker: It's kind of like the ultimate version of Spider-Man, the, the vault edition.
Speaker: It gives them a little more options and flexibility and having an Aussie soundtrack is great for that.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: Here's the question though.
Speaker: Just on the theme and the art and the music, how interested are you in Venom?
Speaker: Okay, so when you say art, has it been talked about yet?
Speaker: I'm pretty for sure zombie yetis on this one.
Speaker: Okay, if it's zombie yeti, then sure.
Speaker: But why would Todd McFarlane even be there then?
Speaker: I think it's a team up.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I think it's a zombie yeti, Todd McFarlane team up.
Speaker: I don't think Todd did all of it.
Speaker: Okay, but Todd has a very distinctive style.
Speaker: I read comic books in the late 80s, early 90s.
Speaker: Haven't really read them since.
Speaker: But Todd had, it's like the JJP GNR experience, right?
Speaker: There's something different about that game that pulls you in.
Speaker: There was something different about Todd McFarland art that pulled you in.
Speaker: And can you mesh two competing or two different styles?
Speaker: Because Zombie Yeti and Todd McFarlane, they are completely different artists.
Speaker: Imagine Zombie Yeti and Christopher Franchi working together.
Speaker: Well, but here's the thing, though, is every...
Speaker: Every pinball machine doesn't have just one singular artist.
Speaker: They usually do tap in and have some people like doing filler work.
Speaker: I just, I think it's not doing filler work.
Speaker: I'm not saying Todd Barry Bonds is a 73rd home run ball for $10 million.
Speaker: But obviously zombie Eddie knows how to do a play field layout short style.
Speaker: And so that's what I'm saying.
Speaker: Todd McFarlane's done comic books.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I highly doubt he knows how to come in and fill out a play field.
Speaker: That's where you bring in.
Speaker: That's where you get the tag team, right?
Speaker: You get the, you get the art from Todd.
Speaker: We also get the expertise of zombie.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: I really think it's a collaborative effort there.
Speaker: This isn't confirmed, but like there's just, there's been some hints.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I guess that's all I can say about that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: By the way, we haven't seen Venom.
Speaker: We have no idea.
Speaker: No, I haven't seen Venom.
Speaker: This is us just saying it's been around for so long that I would be utterly shocked if it were not Venom coming up.
Speaker: Well, and like I said, that booth said Todd McFarlane, Ozzy Osbourne, and Stern Pinball.
Speaker: All you had to do was put little plus signs between those logos.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: By the way, just for context, guess how much Todd McFarlane's worth?
Speaker: I just, I don't even just, I don't guess 4 million, 300 million, really 300 million.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Wowzers.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: That's that is major league there.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: That is, that's only about 300 million more than I have.
Speaker: Um, the one that I'm thinking, sorry,
Speaker: I don't know why it just reminded me, Rob Liefeld.
Speaker: Have you heard of this guy?
Speaker: Well, Rob Liefeld was the, he was the creator of Deadpool.
Speaker: He was of the same era.
Speaker: The four big artists of that era, and I know I'm going down a rabbit hole, was Todd McFarlane, Wiltz Protasio, Rob Liefeld, and Jim Lee.
Speaker: But what's funny to me is like Rob Weifel, cause he was so big.
Speaker: He even had like his designer Levi jeans and it was a commercial of it.
Speaker: But if you ever want a really good chuckle, go check out the 40 worst Rob Weifel draw.
Speaker: He has no idea about anatomy.
Speaker: Like he had muscles in weird places, but he had a visual style that really worked.
Speaker: So he was very specific about like Deadpool and, and creating that character.
Speaker: Um, but which had to be a rip off of death stroke.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Slade Wilson, Wade Wilson, the suits.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Anyhow, but, uh, Wills potassium.
Speaker: I love the style of Wills potassium.
Speaker: He was amazing.
Speaker: However, Jim Lee was the best anatomic one.
Speaker: Like he, he had a, he, if you want to know how to draw super accurate comic book guys, go look at Jim Lee stuff.
Speaker: Oh, definitely.
Speaker: Okay, back to... Meanwhile, back to pinball.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: It's 30 minutes in and we spent 10 minutes talking about pinball.
Speaker: Hey, but it was related.
Speaker: It was related to... It was definitely, 100%.
Speaker: So, Brian Eddy, he's next.
Speaker: So, Brian Eddy on Venom.
Speaker: I'm pretty for sure Dwight Sullivan's going to be tapped in on this one because he's up next as well, based off everything.
Speaker: How do you feel... How do we feel about Eddy?
Speaker: I'm going to go first.
Speaker: Like, okay.
Speaker: I, I appreciate stranger things.
Speaker: I think the problem is it got a lot of slack.
Speaker: Cause it is very much a bench, a bench, a bench Mars attack for Mars.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Avenged Mars attack for Mars esque layout wise.
Speaker: Come on.
Speaker: It's 2.0.
Speaker: It really is.
Speaker: It really is.
Speaker: It's a re-skinned attack for Mars.
Speaker: That's not bad.
Speaker: I own attack for Mars, which is why I don't own stranger things.
Speaker: And then I do enjoy Mandalorian.
Speaker: I think the problem is though, I feel like you only play really half of the play field because half of it or a court, the top right quarter is taken by the, the mini play field, which is fine.
Speaker: That's part of the game.
Speaker: And then baby Yoda takes the top left half.
Speaker: I know it's like pop bumpers and like all over.
Speaker: It's nothing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's really not much.
Speaker: And so I'm hoping that,
Speaker: this next iteration from Eddie shows us a little bit further of what he can do because I feel like shadow was great.
Speaker: I mean, obviously medieval madness and attack from our top, top tier games.
Speaker: I, I just, I worry.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It just makes me chuckle.
Speaker: Cause like, what was it?
Speaker: Four years ago, they announced that he was, it was even longer than me.
Speaker: It was five years ago.
Speaker: They announced Eddie was working at Stern and I remember like Mike drop Stern's won the game, like Stern's in the lead or whatever.
Speaker: And it's funny cause it doesn't really feel that way.
Speaker: And don't get me wrong.
Speaker: I enjoy Eddie.
Speaker: I appreciate what he's done for pinball and whatnot, but I don't think anyone planned on what Elwin was going to do to, to the industry.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It was Eddie and Elwin came in similar times really, uh,
Speaker: Um, and Ellen has about the same amount of games as Eddie does now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Uh, they, the challenge is, um,
Speaker: Elwin is the modern take on pinball.
Speaker: It is driven every other design into different directions.
Speaker: Eddie is the, it's kind of the retro design.
Speaker: The stranger things, I think it's a solid game Mandalorian.
Speaker: I'm not a huge fan of gimmick play fields.
Speaker: And that's actually why I sold my Mandalorian.
Speaker: Because I,
Speaker: The upper right with the play field that goes up and down.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It's fine.
Speaker: But it feels like, do you know what it felt like?
Speaker: It felt like Shrek where you get the, the upper right, you know, the mini pinball and it's kind of a different donkey.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's like a different, you know, same with family guy, whatever.
Speaker: But it felt like, okay, this isn't really part of the game.
Speaker: This is like a side quest, but it takes up so much real estate.
Speaker: I'm hoping he can, and if you, if you look at the other things, medieval madness is not that way.
Speaker: There's not really a gimmick side area.
Speaker: There's, there's great shots in that attack from Mars has great shots.
Speaker: So I I'm curious to see what his next design is, but I'm also, I'm totally undecided.
Speaker: This is, this is one of those where I'm going to have to see it.
Speaker: to order it or play it or to buy it.
Speaker: I have to play it.
Speaker: I have to see it.
Speaker: So it's, yeah, I think the jury's still out.
Speaker: I guess I'll put it that way.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: Speaking of Elwin, let's talk Godzilla topper.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Let's talk about toppers.
Speaker: Or do you want to let it breathe for a second and we can hurry and talk about the one other Elwin thing I want to talk about really quick.
Speaker: Okay, go ahead.
Speaker: I just want to talk about, there's something that Elwin's done in his games recently that I don't think we take, we kind of take for granted a little bit.
Speaker: The 180 ramp is redefining pinball as like, you know how we're taking out pop bumper nests?
Speaker: I feel like the 180 ramp does something very unique that has expanded on pinball.
Speaker: The reason being is, is
Speaker: you get a lot of bang for your buck in a very small area.
Speaker: And so like with Jurassic Park, it creates a lot more real estate, but it creates a very dynamic shot right in the middle of the play field.
Speaker: And then like look on Godzilla, the back left ramp is actually one of those 180 ramps that flips it back.
Speaker: It creates, it's got, it's so perfected that
Speaker: Typically a shot like this could either clunk or it would be very hard to hit.
Speaker: It would reject a lot.
Speaker: Somehow they've perfected it and just made it smooth.
Speaker: And in the past, I've been thinking about this.
Speaker: In the past, this shot was only accomplished by a vertical up kicker.
Speaker: You would shoot it into a saucer and then that saucer would be hit by a vertical up kicker.
Speaker: And that, which, I mean, look at, my best example would be like Dr. Dude.
Speaker: when you're shooting the, I think it's not the heart ramp.
Speaker: It's one of those, but you'd shoot an exhaust or an up kicker.
Speaker: It's the same idea.
Speaker: It's Simpson's pinball party.
Speaker: You shoot in the garage, you have to wait for it to kick up.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: You're cutting out time for the ball to be moving.
Speaker: You get faster movement.
Speaker: Your bomb is lower because you're cutting out a coil, which you can, and then that's node board space.
Speaker: I just, I think there's,
Speaker: as i'm just dissecting more and more of elwyn's games there's just little nuances like that because we don't have a vertical up kicker in that spot that means that's money that can be spent somewhere else on the play field and so this is this is why elwyn is smart when he designs because he's taking things like this applying into the game
Speaker: And which then he can put more into the game.
Speaker: And that's why we get Godzilla.
Speaker: I can't wait for his next game.
Speaker: Like, I'm really excited.
Speaker: Like I'm excited.
Speaker: Iron Man is here on Friday.
Speaker: But I just.
Speaker: Iron Maiden.
Speaker: Yeah, my Iron Maiden is here on Friday.
Speaker: You said Iron Man.
Speaker: Sorry, Iron Maiden.
Speaker: And then whenever he releases his next one, which rumor being is.
Speaker: Jaws.
Speaker: Well, Jaws too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But first of the year is probably when we're going to see it ish.
Speaker: You hit on something that's really important and.
Speaker: The three-dimensionality that Elwyn has brought to the design process where he has... It's not like he's designing a complete flat playfield.
Speaker: I mean, everyone has habit trails.
Speaker: Everyone has everything like that.
Speaker: But the velocity at which he incorporates the 3D space above the playfield is what has made him be the new king of flow.
Speaker: He really is that the ball does not stop.
Speaker: You can keep that ball flying around and it, it, it creates that, that, that kinetic momentum that we're all craving for in pinball.
Speaker: So, so that's exactly what it is.
Speaker: And think about the economy of a shot.
Speaker: It basically takes something that could have been a scoop shot and
Speaker: and makes it into a very dynamic high flow shot.
Speaker: And I will say that the three, the, the vertical, you know, the reverse ramps, they don't clunk.
Speaker: They don't, there's so much velocity of those things going in that it just flies.
Speaker: So absolutely.
Speaker: If, if there's one thing that has changed the game for pinball, it's the velocity at which you are playing constantly.
Speaker: by his economy of design.
Speaker: Kind of said better.
Speaker: So, all right, let's move on to this Godzilla topper.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I am.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Am I an idiot?
Speaker: I am actually buying the topper.
Speaker: I'm buying the topper because it's, it's a game that I'm going to keep for a long time.
Speaker: I don't see me selling Godzilla really anytime soon, if ever.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So my thought was, okay, if I want to buy it, I should buy it now.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The, the challenge that I have with Stern's approach to toppers and their accessories is that I wish they had the same commitment to excellence and quality.
Speaker: and value for their accessory kit that they do for their machines.
Speaker: When you buy a game, yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It's still expensive, right?
Speaker: I mean, this is, these are small cars here.
Speaker: It's still expensive, but you know, I'm buying this game and compared to what else is out there, I'm getting a higher quality, a higher fun game for 2000 cheaper than I'm getting other options.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So why don't they have a dedicated team that all they're doing is making cool looking stuff and the topper, they have disguised their toppers by adding a boatload of lights.
Speaker: So they are, they have become Walmart displays and end cap toppers.
Speaker: That's what they've become.
Speaker: Where you go into Walmart, there's an end cap, you know, which is the premium real estate in the, in the store, right?
Speaker: Because everybody walks past the end caps.
Speaker: So there's something that's eye catching.
Speaker: So yes, it still accomplishes the job.
Speaker: You see Godzilla, but my gosh, isn't, is it not exactly the same Godzilla that's on the play field already?
Speaker: I'm pretty for sure.
Speaker: It is exactly the same.
Speaker: And so you have this exactly the same.
Speaker: You have this, this, uh, smoke fire thing that they stole from the Adams family and put up there.
Speaker: They have, are the, the tanks aren't even 3d, right?
Speaker: They're like plastic to their flat plastic.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They're flat plastic.
Speaker: Uh, okay.
Speaker: I will say a plus for all of Elwin's games.
Speaker: My gosh, his toppers fall.
Speaker: like that stern produces for his games are the laziest toppers ever.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They are super lazy.
Speaker: Like the Godzilla or the, uh, the Jurassic park topper.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: There were better alternatives out there.
Speaker: There really were.
Speaker: And I understand the better alternatives weren't paying licensing.
Speaker: They were,
Speaker: They were certainly operating in a gray area if that is even a thing because they were unlicensed.
Speaker: And so they had a lot more freedom to do whatever they wanted.
Speaker: But they at least provided something that was visually more interesting.
Speaker: And I will say the Infinity Quest topper, it's fine.
Speaker: It's layered, but it still feels it's 2D lights.
Speaker: It's 2D plastic with a whole bunch of lights, which still, yeah, it looks good from a distance.
Speaker: But man, when you compare these to any topper that Chicago gaming company has done, it's laughable.
Speaker: They look like they are not putting forth the effort.
Speaker: I appreciate that they have gone to the effort of putting art blades, which I know it's just eye candy, right?
Speaker: But they look good.
Speaker: The only art blades that I didn't like really were Mandalorian art blades because it was just the heads.
Speaker: But that's a style question, right?
Speaker: It just wasn't my thing.
Speaker: But if you look at the topper game that they're bringing,
Speaker: It's just not there.
Speaker: And everybody says, okay, vote with your wallet, which is fine.
Speaker: I totally get it.
Speaker: I'm willing to buy it because I want a complete game.
Speaker: But there are some parts of their games that I did not buy the shooter rod, the Godzilla X shooter rod, because I actually bought two shooter rods, which were cool, but they don't really help out gameplay.
Speaker: Like the shooter rod on Infinity Quest, the shooter rod on Jurassic Park.
Speaker: I use the button anyway to launch anyway.
Speaker: And the shooter rod that they use for Avengers Infinity Quest, the spring is the wrong spring.
Speaker: You full plunge it and it doesn't even do that.
Speaker: So the question is, who is, why don't they have a dedicated team?
Speaker: They are making so much money off this stuff.
Speaker: And I totally understand.
Speaker: This is me being a fan boy who is complaining, but having a thousand dollar topper for a game that costs, you know, 10 to 10 to 15% of a game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And there, there does come a point where you're thinking, wow, you really are just fleecing people who just have more money than, than they know what to do with.
Speaker: And so, so maybe, maybe my bar should be higher, higher for toppers and, and I should give games a little more of a pass.
Speaker: Man, you're getting kind of worked up there like the deeper conversation.
Speaker: For a man buying this topper, he sure... I still think it will... Okay, the fire mode in the back actually looks kind of cool.
Speaker: It really does.
Speaker: It has the fire thing going up on the buildings.
Speaker: It does make it feel like a complete game.
Speaker: They do put a lot of lights interaction in it.
Speaker: So that is something to do.
Speaker: But the gap between what I want them to make in a topper and what they are making is wide.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We got to take into consideration, though, that if Zombie Yeti is on Venom, right?
Speaker: And he just did Foo Fighters.
Speaker: That's back-to-back releases.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And a year or two ago, he had Avengers and Turtles, which were back-to-back releases.
Speaker: So obviously, Zombie Yeti is at max capacity right now, right?
Speaker: And to keep these toppers cohesive, he is the one doing the topper art as well.
Speaker: Cause he talked on turtles.
Speaker: He actually tapped his, his daughter.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: His, his daughter brought his dog did a guest art.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, so the, the thing is, is the toppers are an afterthought, a complete afterthought, which is why I'm saying, why don't they have a topper team?
Speaker: Like have three people on it.
Speaker: I agree, but who do you tap to be your artist then to keep it cohesive?
Speaker: Because Zombie Yeti, you still have to do the art, and really those toppers are mostly art with some light.
Speaker: Well, okay, but that's what they've defaulted to.
Speaker: If they had a better Godzilla sculpt up there, then you don't really need Zombie Yeti.
Speaker: I guarantee Zombie Yeti didn't do the Godzilla doll in there.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: So I guess that does bring... You would either have to step up your game to the point that you're doing nothing but 3D models, you're going the CGC route, and you're putting behind the cohesiveness of the artwork.
Speaker: If you're doing 3D models, it's probably going to be cohesive anyway.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: Yeah, I agree with you on that point.
Speaker: And it's so weird to me because these accessories come out and then they're released once a year.
Speaker: It's so weird.
Speaker: And then we don't see them again for another year or something like that.
Speaker: I don't fully understand.
Speaker: Is it just...
Speaker: a side project, a side hustle for Stern.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: However, they, they could make, okay, this is me again.
Speaker: I will, I will pull out my, my Josh sharp fact checking a red card and say, I have nothing to back my statements up.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I don't worry.
Speaker: I don't work in marketing.
Speaker: I haven't done the analysis on it.
Speaker: However, when medieval madness decided to up their game for their topper, I bought their topper and,
Speaker: which was like 750 or 800.
Speaker: And it is a 3d sculpt that has lights on it, right?
Speaker: That's, that's all.
Speaker: And it looks so good.
Speaker: And you can't tell me that you can't do a similar thing.
Speaker: for a decent profit margin.
Speaker: If you could buy, you could buy a $300 Godzilla toy and glue it to the top of your game.
Speaker: And it would look more like it would look more connected to the game than having a zip tied Godzilla up there.
Speaker: So I think here's where everyone's having the issue.
Speaker: It doesn't look fantastic.
Speaker: It doesn't look, okay.
Speaker: I won't say it doesn't look terrible, but okay.
Speaker: I will say,
Speaker: It is okay.
Speaker: It's a, it's a Toyota Corolla.
Speaker: It's functional.
Speaker: It looks fine.
Speaker: It gets you from point a to B, but would you rather have that or I don't know, a, a Corvette?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But my point being is, is like, I think this is where people are having an issue is.
Speaker: either go the thousand dollar price tag and build quality.
Speaker: Like I didn't hear any, like, yeah, two, two grand was a lot for a Mandalorian.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I will say that that wasn't for me.
Speaker: That was, that was a bridge too far, but I didn't, they may have complained about the price, but I didn't feel like they complained about the quality of the topper.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Either you got to understand, like a lot of people are new into this hobby.
Speaker: Stern toppers went to a thousand dollars with what?
Speaker: Like it wasn't even black night sort of rage.
Speaker: It was after that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's only been in the last two, three years.
Speaker: And even then an expensive hopper, which was the black night topper was $650 brand new on the box.
Speaker: And that's actually amazing.
Speaker: Wasn't that 450 to start with?
Speaker: I don't think it was, but I think the toppers before the flat plastic one, so like the Deadpool one was 400 bucks.
Speaker: And so it's like either go back to the $400 price tag and do flat plastics or meet the quality of the thousand dollar price tag.
Speaker: But here's the problem.
Speaker: People are buying it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: People are buying it.
Speaker: I totally get it.
Speaker: Why is there any motive for Stern?
Speaker: Apparently they can put, they can take the toy off of Godzilla's play field.
Speaker: They're like, Oh, we'll just produce more of these slap it on a topper.
Speaker: with some LEDs and some flat plastics, and there's $1,000.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Just looking at the picture of the topper again, do you know what it looks like?
Speaker: It looks like Godzilla is an elf and talking to Mr. Narwhal before he hops off on the iceberg.
Speaker: That's what it looks like.
Speaker: It's Mr. Narwhal popping out of the top of the Godzilla game.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I just, well, I guess, are they selling though?
Speaker: Cause I've heard from some distributors.
Speaker: I know some people have backed out now.
Speaker: Now I've heard, are they still making, maybe they're, they're making what they want out of it.
Speaker: true but my point being is is like so i heard some distributors can't keep these in stock i've heard other distributors they're trying to pawn this get other distributors to buy it because they can't sell them at all so it's this weird mix of like some are selling some are not some are embarrassed to even be having this product because they don't feel like it matches the quality of what a started product should be if your distributor feels that way you should rethink things like yeah it's i i just wish that
Speaker: You're right.
Speaker: It's the, the guardians of the galaxy topper, which they're not even making anymore.
Speaker: They, I mean, that was 400 bucks or something.
Speaker: And it completed the visual aspect of the game.
Speaker: And I'm not really complaining about that one.
Speaker: The other ones, it just, it feels like they've gotten lazier and more expensive.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: I think if you made a flat past, if you went into the topper game right now, I know everyone wants to go bigger and better because the first thing I saw after this was announced was like three other mod companies like check out our gods are the topper.
Speaker: It's better.
Speaker: Whatever.
Speaker: I'm like, if you really want to make some money, maybe you won't.
Speaker: You just...
Speaker: 3d print a bunch of flat plastics and stick it on a topper with some leds and sell it for 200 bucks, 300 bucks.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: The measles mods has one that you can put up there that's cheaper and that is licensed.
Speaker: yeah.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Uh, let's move on to, I, there's a topic that I've wanted to hit for a couple episodes now.
Speaker: I feel like a lot of people aren't talking about it.
Speaker: Uh, maybe they are.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Uh,
Speaker: My pinball podcasts lately have been very narrowed down.
Speaker: I do listen to pinball podcasts, but it feels like the content's not being put out as much anymore as well.
Speaker: Anywho, the topic at hand, I want to talk about the used market.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: We've seen a decline definitely in the last six months.
Speaker: I will start off by saying, though, I don't think – everyone keeps saying the bubble's going to burst.
Speaker: I think for the bubble to burst –
Speaker: like that means we're going back to ground zero.
Speaker: I just don't see that happening with pinball.
Speaker: I don't see if I know that flattens, that's what's going to happen.
Speaker: It's going to flatten and depress.
Speaker: It's going to flatten like the housing market.
Speaker: But I don't think we see,
Speaker: the mid two thousands of where like used pinball machines were just being thrown in the trash versus being worth people.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, I don't think we get back to that point where you can get a pinball machine for like 500 bucks.
Speaker: That's, that's a modern pinball machine.
Speaker: Um, definitely EM all day, but what I'm seeing now,
Speaker: and mates because i've just been trying to sell pinball machines which i am now glad that my the machines i need sold are gone because it's been a pain in the neck it really has um i had one person offer me half of what i was asking for god for guardians of the galaxy yeah half like and when i just i i didn't even want to all the emotions that came with that i just said no yeah i just i'm not even justifying you with like a
Speaker: you know, a very wordy text.
Speaker: Let's just put that right.
Speaker: No, no, thanks.
Speaker: That's not so friendly.
Speaker: And they, they were ballsy enough to write back.
Speaker: Well, if you change your mind, we're more than happy to take it off your hands.
Speaker: I'm like, I want to save this person the next time they're selling.
Speaker: I'm just going to hit them for every ad on Facebook and be like, hey, will you take half?
Speaker: Will you take half?
Speaker: I'll take it off your hand.
Speaker: I will say that that's... By the way, I just sent you a few links to some 3D options for... There's basically things that you could just glue on the top of your machine and it would look better for $100.
Speaker: There are people who are... I would say...
Speaker: aggressive shoppers out there.
Speaker: And there's, there's a tactic that, and I, a tactic that if you, uh, on eBay, it says a surprise.
Speaker: I actually saw this about a week ago, a surprisingly effective strategy for, uh, it was like, or best offer.
Speaker: And it said, uh, 50% of what they're, they're asking, uh,
Speaker: And it was like a straight 50% because they, you're not going to get tons of hits, but you're going to get enough where people are like, yeah, okay.
Speaker: I just want to sell it.
Speaker: So I, I think that you're getting a lot of people who have that tactic that they're just, they're shooting 50% out there and just see, you know, it's like throwing the fishing line in the water.
Speaker: to see what happens.
Speaker: And, and sometimes you may get that, that owner who's like, you know, I just want to get rid of it and move on.
Speaker: I, I got our house for, for actually a really good deal.
Speaker: Like we walked into about 50,000 in equity.
Speaker: And what happened is, is that they, they listed the house and they just want a quick sale.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So they, so it ended up that we, we saw like the house was on the market for four days and they had four offers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I understand.
Speaker: However, I will say it feels a little bit like, are you kidding me?
Speaker: Like, and so I don't know.
Speaker: And like, I get, I don't know.
Speaker: Like I had people offering me $800 less than I was asking, but at that point, and then I feel like I can counter back.
Speaker: Like, yeah, it's a little, but this is, this is where I can go.
Speaker: There's some negotiation room where you're taking $3,700 off of a pinball machine.
Speaker: No, that's what it is.
Speaker: It's a straight 50%.
Speaker: They are not because they say you're actually getting your success rate is higher on offering 50% than it is on offering 60% or 70% because it's a quick, easy calculation for the owner.
Speaker: It's a weird tactic.
Speaker: I totally understand why you can be miffed on something that you're trying to sell for $7,000 and they're offering 3,500, but it is a well-known tactic.
Speaker: So I think the other thing, okay, let's, I've got some cold, hard facts.
Speaker: Let's, let's go through this really quick about the use, use market.
Speaker: You and I were discussing this before the episode.
Speaker: Unless if you're an Elwin, let's go, let's hit Godzilla.
Speaker: Cause Godzilla is in second place right now to Foo Fighters.
Speaker: Cause you know, that's the newest.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's a, that's some great inflation right there.
Speaker: So we all know once the new hotness comes out, it always goes to number one.
Speaker: Okay, Godzilla, there are eight for sale on the market right now.
Speaker: We're doing everything through Pinside.
Speaker: I'm not going.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The cheapest right now for sale that doesn't have a pending is $9,900.
Speaker: And it looks like they're floating around $99,000, $10,000, $10,700, $10,500.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: It looks like Godzilla obviously is about or higher than New Inbox, which is what we've seen for the last couple years.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: The one that has, let's hear you talk about, what was the other one that I was talking about?
Speaker: Iron Maiden.
Speaker: So, because my Iron Maiden Pro is going to be here on Friday, I was like, I was curious.
Speaker: There are four on the market.
Speaker: Out of those four, the very base one is $7,000 and it goes all the way up to $8,700.
Speaker: So, that's pretty good.
Speaker: That's a pretty good margin, right?
Speaker: Like, that's still at a new inbox or higher.
Speaker: Okay, the one that I was, because we've talked about this, I know you feel that Ninja Turtles isn't a fantastic game.
Speaker: But I prefer the Pro over the Premium.
Speaker: And I think that's what Sourgy was, the Premium, right?
Speaker: The Premium, well, it didn't help that my glider malfunctioned within like a week of me buying it.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: So a Turtles Premium, the very base right now,
Speaker: Mind you, they're not making these anymore.
Speaker: So I can't say like new in box should be around 9,700 because that's what premiums are going for right now, right?
Speaker: If it were on the line today, it would sell for that.
Speaker: If it were on the line today.
Speaker: But let's even go back to six months ago.
Speaker: You're at eight, not eight grand.
Speaker: You're at nine grand, right?
Speaker: That's brand new out of the box because there was a $700 increase.
Speaker: The base right now.
Speaker: Can you, well, you know, the base right now is 7,100 and that is city.
Speaker: That's not even that.
Speaker: That's, that's a price of a pro new inbox.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, I also, I read this off pin side that there is a pro, a very well modded pro.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Including the topper on turtles for 6,500.
Speaker: So if you want a turtles by this now, yeah.
Speaker: Um, a lot of these other premiums are sitting around eight, 8,300, 8,400.
Speaker: I mean, we're still lower than new in box.
Speaker: It is what it is, which is what it should be to be, to be blunt.
Speaker: Uh, a used game should go for 500 to a thousand less than the new.
Speaker: And it should, it should, that's what the market should be.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Let's pull up Mando's really quick.
Speaker: This is exciting.
Speaker: Everyone's like, oh.
Speaker: Well, we can cut this part out.
Speaker: Actually, will you look up Mandalorian?
Speaker: I'm going to hurry.
Speaker: I want to talk Avengers because Avengers is still an Elwing game, right?
Speaker: Yeah, it is.
Speaker: It's considered probably, okay, out of the top 100, it's his lowest rated out of the top 100.
Speaker: Yeah, what is it, 15 or 16?
Speaker: 19 now.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: Life is rough when you're in 19.
Speaker: How many does Steve Ritchie have in the top 10?
Speaker: Let's talk premiums.
Speaker: Right now, you're looking at a base 7,400.
Speaker: I mean, one just sold at 7,800.
Speaker: Yeah, 8,000.
Speaker: I see a 7,000 premium with mods.
Speaker: I see that.
Speaker: 7,300.
Speaker: Where are you seeing the 7,000?
Speaker: That one's 7,800.
Speaker: It's kind of crossed out, though.
Speaker: No, there's another one.
Speaker: 6,950.
Speaker: So if you're looking for an Avengers premium.
Speaker: Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker: No, I'm looking at Mandalorians.
Speaker: You were looking at Avengers?
Speaker: Yeah, I heard he brought up Avengers while you were looking at Mandalorians.
Speaker: Okay, sorry.
Speaker: But my point being is this is an L1 game.
Speaker: You can tell your part.
Speaker: I probably won't.
Speaker: Okay, all right.
Speaker: But this is an Elwin game and the base is 7,400.
Speaker: They're still making these brand new off the line.
Speaker: It's going to be $9,700.
Speaker: I mean, that's a 7,400.
Speaker: That's, that's a $2,300.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which again is that's reasonable.
Speaker: I wonder how much shipping plays into this as well.
Speaker: Cause last time I checked shipping was ridiculous.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And also it's kind of a, it's kind of a pain.
Speaker: I brought this up last time that I, my biggest hurdle to selling a game is I just hate the game of selling and dealing with, with people who are offering $3,000 for a $12,000 game.
Speaker: I just hate that.
Speaker: I sold my Mandalorian so I could buy a Cactus Canyon.
Speaker: So that's, that's what happened there.
Speaker: But it was to a friend.
Speaker: So that was, that was pretty easy.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So yeah, getting back to Mandalorian, but yeah, you, you're, I just pulled up Mando with you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: 7,000.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If you're a North Carolina area, you want to, Hey, there's one in Louisiana that you can get for $50 less.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Good, cry me.
Speaker: And there's also eight on this one as well.
Speaker: We're starting to see a flood of the market.
Speaker: I don't know if it's because people- There's a 9,000 with animated Grogu, so.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So in fairness, that's what I, you should anticipate spending 500 to a thousand less for a home use only game from, from what the line is.
Speaker: So that, so I think that's reasonable to expect that now, but I think the days are gone of we're going to spend,
Speaker: 9,700 on a new inbox and get 9,700 out of it.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: No, in very few games will do that.
Speaker: And it's because this is econ one 10 boys and girls.
Speaker: Once the supply catches up with demand, there will be an adjustment to the curve.
Speaker: And, and the, uh, the $4 trillion, uh, rain checks are not coming in anymore.
Speaker: The economy stimulation has been spent.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And some of you spent your money unwisely.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: You spent poorly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But like I said, there's going to be some bright spots, right?
Speaker: In the user market.
Speaker: The Stranger Things is still going to sell high.
Speaker: They didn't make a ton of them.
Speaker: That's the supply and demand.
Speaker: Just getting back to supply and demand.
Speaker: The demand may not be as high for a Stranger Things as it is for a Godzilla, but the supply is way lower.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: Even though I think they should remake it to be plunge.
Speaker: So I think that should be something we should be talking about is like, because I hear a lot of people getting frustrated with the market.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Um, and the fact that like new prices, new inbox prices are still pretty high and they don't seem to be trending down at all.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Um, but that's the thing though, is like the use market is coming down and as people start turning towards the use market instead of buying new inbox, cause that was kind of the joke with Harry Potter.
Speaker: Like it's going to come out new.
Speaker: Let's say it comes out like the base model is $15,000, but I'll just wait three months and get it for 10.
Speaker: I mean, Hobbit's,
Speaker: are going for like 8,500 right now.
Speaker: I remember when you could use to get them for 6,500.
Speaker: That feels about right for a hobbit.
Speaker: It does 8,500 feels about right.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: Um, but my point being is, is we're, that's what we're going to see for a little while.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: I had a pull up bond.
Speaker: I just, okay.
Speaker: So what is bond selling for?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's there's seven on the, there's seven on the market right now.
Speaker: 5600 for premium if you for no this is a pro for some odd reason oh they must not produce premiums yet because there's not even a premium slot on uh no there's a top 100 there's a premium like well i know there's a premium what but if you want to if you want dr no pro 5600 yeah i was looking it up via guess okay we're at on the top 100 bond set uh 99
Speaker: Yeah, it's just... Bond should have been so much better.
Speaker: I'm sorry, it really should have been.
Speaker: Okay, there is a Bond premium for $7,800.
Speaker: That's insane for a brand.
Speaker: That game's been out not even a year yet.
Speaker: Yeah, and that's sad.
Speaker: So... Well, okay, so what about Bond 60?
Speaker: What's that going for?
Speaker: Because I know that's dropped a little bit.
Speaker: That's a good question.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Bond 60, pulling it up.
Speaker: While you're looking that up though, I just, that's crazy to me that, I mean, 5,600 for James Bond pro.
Speaker: Seriously, if you're looking for a Bond pro, this is the way to go.
Speaker: Ellie's are still setting.
Speaker: You can, they've got eight ads on here, but bond says there's around, there's currently around 17, 17, 18,000.
Speaker: And that's where you're going.
Speaker: And like I said, some of these, there is a total flood of the market, right?
Speaker: There is a, like the turtles premium.
Speaker: I'm pretty for sure.
Speaker: Let's see.
Speaker: Oh, I guess there was only seven ads.
Speaker: There is one may was Avengers.
Speaker: There's like 21 of them sitting on the market and you can go into, you can go into pin side and see how many games are sitting there.
Speaker: These games, um,
Speaker: I think that's, like you said, Econ 101.
Speaker: We're starting to see the market catch up.
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: The collection is not in value as where it was, but I think you're still, I think people are going to be a lot more choosy now when they go to get their new games.
Speaker: They are not going to just buy sight unseen.
Speaker: I mean, I can guarantee that because we're seeing a lot of that drop off.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like I said, Avengers, there's 21 of them on the market right now for premiums.
Speaker: And there's some, there's some pretty nice ones.
Speaker: I mean, there's one for 7,300 on here tricked out.
Speaker: I mean,
Speaker: is what it is guys and gals um so yeah that's that's where we're heading uh new in box it's probably still staying strong but these market is definitely coming down if we're going into a buyer's market if you guys are looking for that pinball machine you want use might be the way to go you're still not going to get a crazy
Speaker: a crazy deal unless someone just trying to unload their, uh, unload their stuff.
Speaker: Because the bottom line is once the prices drop a certain amount, people's like, Oh, I'd just rather keep the game.
Speaker: But, um, I would say a safe value is to say, if you can get it between, um,
Speaker: Okay, we're taking shipping out of the equation.
Speaker: But if you can get it for $1,000 to $1,500 below what MSRP is, then I think that's a decent deal.
Speaker: If you're below $1,500, then wow, you're certainly trending into a great deal, especially if it's a home use only.
Speaker: But that's really where the market should always be.
Speaker: Well, really, a 10% to 20% decrease from new in-box isn't terrible.
Speaker: I mean, new cars, you definitely take a bigger hit, at least 30% or more the second you drive it off the lot.
Speaker: And title, like I said, title's going to make a difference.
Speaker: Rarity is going to make a difference.
Speaker: So you're going to start seeing some more Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness flowing back up to the top price-wise and stuff like that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think that pretty much does it as far as your used market.
Speaker: I mean, there's your market trends, people.
Speaker: If you want those used games, you can go out and get them.
Speaker: Uh, one other, I want to do one more shout out before we shut this down.
Speaker: Don's pinball podcast.
Speaker: If you haven't checked this out yet is like a 30 minute stream of the subconscious, uh, Don by himself, just talking at you about current topics and just opinions and shouting out locations.
Speaker: It's, it's very well done.
Speaker: I want to say it's, it's very well produced.
Speaker: I would say that we're more of a raw podcast.
Speaker: Uh, well,
Speaker: where he's more, we're more of a conversation podcast and we tend to lean heavily on interviews so that, and that's where our angle is.
Speaker: This is just a, a new fan, which is fun to get someone who is a new exposed to the world of pinball and that, that excitement that you get when you first start a new hobby, it's, you can definitely feel it with him.
Speaker: So go check it out.
Speaker: I actually send him a quick message.
Speaker: I was like,
Speaker: Hey, good for you.
Speaker: Like doing a, a solo podcast for 30 minutes.
Speaker: That's way more effort than I'm willing to do.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it's good.
Speaker: He's, he's a lot more positive on some things that I feel like we've been pretty.
Speaker: He's also family friendly too.
Speaker: So if you're looking for another, another podcast that you can listen with the kids.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: One that's not family friendly that both these podcasts have cited us as part of their inspiration, which I feel shocked that anyone listens to us and be like, I'm listening to Lizard Kid and I should do that too.
Speaker: But Pinball Party, Jason from Pinball Party, it's awesome.
Speaker: And he is definitely not family friendly at all.
Speaker: The beautiful part of this is like movies.
Speaker: You're going to find movies that fit for every demographic.
Speaker: So good for you, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And we, but his show is really good too.
Speaker: It's highly produced as well.
Speaker: We are on YouTube.
Speaker: If you're, if you're super bored and want to look at two extremely sexy dudes talking into microphones, definitely you can check out our YouTube link.
Speaker: But if you have any questions, please reach out.
Speaker: Let us know your thoughts.
Speaker: If you have any hot takes that, or if you just want to let us know that we're way off on some of our takes, then we always want to hear the feedback.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: So if you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid, pinball podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: You can get ahold of us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, YouTube, all at loser kid pinball.
Speaker: And if you want that sweet, sweet swag is silver ball, swag.com slash loser kid.
Speaker: Uh, we do this every couple of weeks, give or take.
Speaker: And, uh, I don't know anything else.
Speaker: Scott, there's the topic you want us to cover.
Speaker: Shoot us a message.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: I know we've got a couple of interviews coming up like we always do, but it's nice just to stop and smell the roses and shoot the pinball breeze occasionally.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Y'all take care.
Speaker: Shut up and sit down.
