Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Ep 110: Toppers and Used Market Analysis
57 Plays2 years ago
We're talking toppers, Harry Potter, and how the used market is fairing.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Excitement Over Iron Maiden Pinball
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:10
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:11
Speaker
We are on episode 110.
00:00:13
Speaker
With me, my other host.
00:00:18
Speaker
The Chewbacca to your Han Solo.
00:00:20
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:22
Speaker
Well, I've been listening to a lot of Slam lately.
00:00:25
Speaker
I know.
00:00:26
Speaker
It's awesome.
00:00:26
Speaker
Ron's the host and Bruce is the co-host.
00:00:28
Speaker
Yes.
00:00:29
Speaker
Trust me.
00:00:30
Speaker
I'm surprised you haven't picked up on that before.
00:00:32
Speaker
Yeah, but in the last couple of episodes, it's very distinct that
00:00:37
Speaker
Ron is the host and Bruce is the other host, not the co-host, the other.
00:00:41
Speaker
Oh, see, I'm okay with being a sidekick.
00:00:44
Speaker
It's okay.
00:00:44
Speaker
It's all good.
00:00:45
Speaker
You do the editing.
00:00:47
Speaker
And so I'm good with that.
00:00:48
Speaker
If I do the editing, I'm good.
00:00:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:00:51
Speaker
So I got a call yesterday.
00:00:54
Speaker
FedEx called me.
00:00:55
Speaker
Iron Maiden Pro is going to be at my house on Friday.
00:00:59
Speaker
I'm so excited.
00:01:00
Speaker
I called Zach Many.
00:01:03
Speaker
He helped me go through the whole process.
00:01:05
Speaker
Man, it is painless every time I use Flipping Out Pinball.
00:01:09
Speaker
If you're not using Flipping Out Pinball, you're just causing yourself more headache.
00:01:13
Speaker
Really, that's what it comes down to.
00:01:14
Speaker
The shipping's smooth.
00:01:16
Speaker
The games show up pristine.
00:01:18
Speaker
I don't know how Zach does it, but he does it.
00:01:19
Speaker
It's great.
00:01:20
Speaker
And at the end of June, my Foo Fighters is showing up.
00:01:23
Speaker
So I'm stoked.
00:01:25
Speaker
And maybe I won't have to worry about Deadpool because I heard that production-wise it got pushed back.
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:29
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:01:31
Speaker
But if you're looking for that next pinball machine, if you're looking for a Godzilla topper, if you're looking for some of those sweet accessories, give Zach and Nicole many at flipping out a call or like we do hit them up through Facebook and send them messages.
00:01:46
Speaker
Be kind though.
00:01:47
Speaker
Don't message them at like two in the morning.
00:01:49
Speaker
It does happen.
00:01:50
Speaker
And I think, okay, I will say I have been guilty about sending you messages at random times because my call schedule is so weird, but, but I totally
Moving Challenges and Podcast Ratings
00:01:59
Speaker
get it.
00:01:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:00
Speaker
I, I also have another flipping up pinball story.
00:02:03
Speaker
So my friend who has that premium Valley Williams collection, he sold his house.
00:02:10
Speaker
And so he moved and I've got a, I've got a terrible right wrist right now.
00:02:16
Speaker
that has been healing.
00:02:18
Speaker
Uh, I, I heard it playing tennis and it's been a while.
00:02:21
Speaker
So I went over to his house and he had these guys that were like, you know, 22 and looked like they, they escaped the Jersey shore extra group.
00:02:29
Speaker
And they were, so they were carrying up all these games from his basement and, you know, around the back and it was huge shipped them over to his new house, but his new house, he's moving to a very small house that, uh, has a, um, it hasn't, uh,
00:02:44
Speaker
a staircase that has a left-hand turn.
00:02:47
Speaker
And we were thinking, well, okay.
00:02:50
Speaker
So I brought my Escalera and five pinball machines down the stairs with a 90 degree turn in there in 45 minutes.
00:02:59
Speaker
Nice.
00:03:00
Speaker
And so, man, if you have not used one of these things, it is totally worth it.
00:03:05
Speaker
It's only a Mandalorian topper.
00:03:07
Speaker
Thank, thank me later.
00:03:08
Speaker
Definitely ask Zach and Nicole, if you are, if you are looking for easy ways of moving machines.
00:03:15
Speaker
Definitely.
00:03:17
Speaker
And I agree with you.
00:03:18
Speaker
That's the only way to go.
00:03:19
Speaker
I have a couple of appliance dollies.
00:03:20
Speaker
I have an actual pinball dolly because I don't have stairs between my pinball machines and the outside.
00:03:26
Speaker
So yeah,
00:03:27
Speaker
I don't have to worry about stairs, but when I do, I have an appliance dolly.
00:03:31
Speaker
I get called when, when my cousin needs us to move.
00:03:34
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
00:03:35
Speaker
But having something that walks up and down those stairs was so good.
00:03:39
Speaker
Yep.
00:03:39
Speaker
Definitely.
00:03:40
Speaker
Well, we've had, it's been kind of an interesting couple of weeks.
00:03:45
Speaker
Yeah, it seems like every, it was like a tsunami.
00:03:48
Speaker
Everything came in at once.
00:03:49
Speaker
And then right now we're dealing with, I would say, lesser news releases.
00:03:56
Speaker
I mean, we're going to talk about accessories, toppers and all that kind of stuff today.
00:04:01
Speaker
But yeah, it is.
00:04:04
Speaker
It's been different.
00:04:05
Speaker
It's been a different.
00:04:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:06
Speaker
Oh, also one thing I do want to point out.
00:04:09
Speaker
So I actually went to our podcast evaluation and not evaluation, the ratings on iTunes.
00:04:17
Speaker
Right.
00:04:18
Speaker
And we need some more ratings because the last one is like three years old.
00:04:22
Speaker
And one of them talked about one of us breathing like Darth Vader throughout the podcast, which I thought was kind of hilarious.
00:04:28
Speaker
But it's yeah, seriously, we would love it if you guys just go to whatever podcast thing.
00:04:36
Speaker
and drop us a rating.
00:04:38
Speaker
Obviously appreciate five star, but we appreciate feedback in any ways of having to make the show better.
00:04:45
Speaker
So let's get some new ratings on there.
00:04:47
Speaker
And the reason why I say this is because podcasts come and go.
00:04:50
Speaker
But a lot of times when you're looking for that new podcast, you're
00:04:55
Speaker
A total nerd rabbit hole here.
00:04:58
Speaker
I have started rewatching Babylon five, which I haven't seen for like 30 years.
00:05:03
Speaker
And I would say I'm a marginal sci-fi fan, but I, but I remember enjoying it back in college.
00:05:08
Speaker
And I found a podcast that has,
00:05:11
Speaker
It's Babylon five for the first time.
00:05:14
Speaker
And they're going through it for the first time.
00:05:16
Speaker
And so it's really interesting.
00:05:18
Speaker
And they even pointed out that, hey, when you're looking for a podcast, a lot of times it doesn't really help out with the search algorithms.
00:05:25
Speaker
But if a podcast that you look up and you're like, I want to check those guys out, guys or girls, if it has more ratings or more reviews, then you're more likely to check that out.
00:05:39
Speaker
So anyway, I just appreciate it if you could go and like and subscribe and all that fun stuff.
00:05:46
Speaker
Yeah, also hit up This Week in Pinball.
00:05:48
Speaker
They still have their creators database and send us one there too as well.
00:05:55
Speaker
Speaking of...
00:05:57
Speaker
this week in pinball.
00:05:57
Speaker
There's also silver ball swag.
00:05:59
Speaker
If you want to check out some more shirts, the shoes are just the shoes on my shoes on fire.
00:06:04
Speaker
Shoes on fire.
00:06:05
Speaker
I can't wait for expo this year.
00:06:06
Speaker
We're going to, we'll be able to tell it was like the hats.
00:06:09
Speaker
You can go through expo.
00:06:11
Speaker
Oh, yep.
00:06:11
Speaker
Yep.
00:06:11
Speaker
Yep.
00:06:11
Speaker
Yep.
Merchandise Talk and Mental Health Awareness
00:06:12
Speaker
And then, uh, now it's going to be the shoes, which is awesome.
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:15
Speaker
And so I, if I've learned one thing about pinball swag is people don't, don't really want shirts.
00:06:21
Speaker
They want something unique.
00:06:22
Speaker
Well, they also don't want crap.
00:06:25
Speaker
The bottom line is if you have a, if you put out cheap stuff and then I totally get it.
00:06:31
Speaker
Everybody has their own way of doing things.
00:06:34
Speaker
But my personal take is that I don't want to wear something that feels, it feels like a promo thing that costs five bucks to make.
00:06:43
Speaker
The shirt's not comfortable.
00:06:44
Speaker
The hat's not comfortable or whatever.
00:06:45
Speaker
So we've certainly gone out of our way to make sure that we're,
00:06:49
Speaker
we're putting something that you would, you would be happy wearing every day.
00:06:53
Speaker
And really to be fair, we're making very little on any of this stuff.
00:06:58
Speaker
I give out more stuff than we do anything.
00:07:00
Speaker
So if anything, we're net negative.
00:07:03
Speaker
And so we just want, you know, we just want people to have fun.
00:07:07
Speaker
Have a fun.
00:07:08
Speaker
Definitely.
00:07:09
Speaker
Definitely.
00:07:09
Speaker
That is silverballswag.com slash loser kid.
00:07:12
Speaker
As simple as that.
00:07:14
Speaker
And yeah.
00:07:16
Speaker
Also, I want to give another shout out to slam tilt podcast.
00:07:19
Speaker
I was listening to them today.
00:07:20
Speaker
They are wrapping up there by, by time we air this, it'll be done, but they were doing there for Lyman sheets, donations to the suicide prevention program.
00:07:31
Speaker
And, uh, it sounded, they, they gave us a shout out.
00:07:34
Speaker
They give the lines shout out.
00:07:35
Speaker
Cause we had them on the last episode talking about Harry Potter.
00:07:38
Speaker
So I just wanted to say thanks to Ron and Bruce for giving us a shout out.
00:07:42
Speaker
It's awesome what you guys are doing.
00:07:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:44
Speaker
And, uh, and we have, we have certainly been an advocate for people with, um, the one thing that we share in life, it seems to me is that the older I get, the more everybody feels isolated.
00:07:59
Speaker
And so I, I, I'm going a little bit out in the weeds.
00:08:03
Speaker
And so, so at church, we were talking about the, the 99 and the, the sheep that's, that's lost.
00:08:10
Speaker
And, you know, the shepherd goes and finds the sheep.
00:08:11
Speaker
And I said, how many of us identify with the 99?
00:08:15
Speaker
Nobody, we all, we all identify with, with the lost one.
00:08:19
Speaker
And so if you're feeling that one,
00:08:22
Speaker
recognize you're not alone to it's, there is absolutely no shame in saying I need some mental health issues because again, your brain is just like any other part of the body and it can have some issues that have things that need to be, need to be addressed.
00:08:37
Speaker
And counseling can help talking to friends, reaching out.
00:08:41
Speaker
And if there's anything else, if you're thinking of harming yourself, please don't and reach out.
00:08:47
Speaker
Yep.
00:08:49
Speaker
Well, check up on your friends, laughter.
00:08:51
Speaker
I don't know if we talked about this last week was rough, man.
00:08:52
Speaker
I, my mother-in-law went in for urgent surgery.
00:08:56
Speaker
A good friend of mine, his wife passed away.
00:09:00
Speaker
And another friend had his, his mom had to go in for surgery as well.
00:09:05
Speaker
And so it was just kind of a weird week last week.
00:09:08
Speaker
You just got to check up on people, you know, life, life can change a blink.
00:09:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:13
Speaker
We, we went down to say George to help out with some family health issues.
00:09:17
Speaker
So yeah, absolutely.
00:09:19
Speaker
Definitely.
00:09:20
Speaker
Let's get on to, we want to kind of review some
Harry Potter Pinball Licensing and Industry Speculations
00:09:23
Speaker
Harry Potter thoughts.
00:09:23
Speaker
There were some extra thoughts.
00:09:25
Speaker
It's really been on the minds of everyone.
00:09:28
Speaker
I guess our episode kind of cracks some of the mystery.
00:09:32
Speaker
We've been talked about throughout a couple different podcasts about what the line said, because Christian Line used to do a show, Christian and Sarah did, called The Super Awesome Pinball Show with Christopher Franchi.
00:09:44
Speaker
If you don't know Franchi, Franchi did Batman 66.
00:09:47
Speaker
He did Munster's.
00:09:48
Speaker
He now did Godfather with JJP.
00:09:50
Speaker
He's on other future titles throughout the pinball industry because he's also did Galactic Tank Force.
00:09:57
Speaker
And so there were some nuggets that were dropped in there.
00:10:03
Speaker
Like we never said a number, but this is definitely the most expensive license in pinball history.
00:10:09
Speaker
Flat out, bar none.
00:10:12
Speaker
We don't know a number, but we do know that it's probably going to be touted once all this information comes out from Jersey Jack.
00:10:20
Speaker
Beatles was the old benchmark.
00:10:22
Speaker
Yeah, which was a million for the license, right?
00:10:24
Speaker
This eclipses that.
00:10:27
Speaker
It has to.
00:10:28
Speaker
And the bottom line is the Beatles are legendary.
00:10:31
Speaker
Yes, Harry Potter is legendary now.
00:10:36
Speaker
And so it still connects with today's audience.
00:10:40
Speaker
I know the Beatles do, but you're going for a different demographic.
00:10:43
Speaker
You are going to pay a premium for this.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yes.
00:10:48
Speaker
Also, I know Christian kind of talked about it, but it kind of sounds like this license was kind of pulled out from under the rug on Stern.
00:10:57
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:58
Speaker
So I thought more about that, though.
00:11:02
Speaker
And so the, the one thing that I keep trying to think about is we know what the public face is, right?
00:11:13
Speaker
We know what the press releases.
00:11:15
Speaker
We know what happens on the surface.
00:11:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:19
Speaker
So the, the only thing that we know for sure is Joe Cam and cow God on mother's day and posted JJP has the license.
00:11:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:31
Speaker
So, and the speculation.
00:11:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:32
Speaker
So everything else beyond that is why.
00:11:36
Speaker
So I've been thinking a lot more about this.
00:11:41
Speaker
What does, what did Stern know or think about the license that we don't know?
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:49
Speaker
And so that leads me to think this seems to be an automatic thing.
00:11:54
Speaker
It's like, Hey, do you want to sell tickets to Taylor Swift concerts?
00:11:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:58
Speaker
The answer is yes, because you're going to sell a billion of them.
00:12:01
Speaker
Right.
00:12:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:03
Speaker
However, what if there were some caveats to that agreement that made it really not in your best interest to do that?
00:12:15
Speaker
And so the question I have is, okay, there's obviously something and it's not the money.
00:12:20
Speaker
I know, I know that they would make up that money.
00:12:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:25
Speaker
So let's even just say if Stern want to sell the game and charge an extra $500 for premium licensing credibility or whatever you want to say, right?
00:12:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:38
Speaker
They could do that and they could sell easily 10,000 Harry Potter games.
00:12:44
Speaker
I, this really has, this theme has the chance of eclipsing, uh, Adam's family.
00:12:51
Speaker
It does because you can like with, uh, with the home market, the way it is, a lot of people that I know have been, are really interested in this game.
00:13:00
Speaker
And I've asked even casual people, um, okay, would you be interested in Harry Potter pen?
00:13:05
Speaker
And every one of them said, yes.
00:13:08
Speaker
So that tells me there's such a huge market for it.
00:13:11
Speaker
So there had to have been something that was an absolute no-go for Stern to decide that this was a license worth passing up.
00:13:22
Speaker
So there are a couple of things we can talk about.
00:13:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:26
Speaker
So Wonka is licensed by the same people as Harry Potter.
00:13:30
Speaker
It's Warner Brothers.
00:13:32
Speaker
And we saw how restrictive Wonka was.
00:13:35
Speaker
Right.
00:13:37
Speaker
I mean, you it's Gene Wilder in the same pose like six different times.
00:13:40
Speaker
And when we talked about this, this is this is like the the lunchbox pose of Gene Wilder.
00:13:46
Speaker
And that was you're right.
00:13:47
Speaker
That was because that's what his family only allowed him to do or the licensing.
00:13:52
Speaker
Right.
00:13:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:53
Speaker
There's not much as of scenes in the game.
00:13:56
Speaker
It's mostly like the chocolate factory working in the background with with the stats up.
00:14:00
Speaker
Right.
00:14:00
Speaker
So there are a couple of scenes, but not a bunch.
00:14:04
Speaker
And artwork-wise, like I said, they were very restrictive on what they could do.
00:14:09
Speaker
So let's apply that to Harry Potter.
00:14:11
Speaker
A more mega license that's more relevant.
00:14:15
Speaker
If Stern walked into this and saw how Bond went with a very restrictive licensor, we know that the licensor was a pain in the butt on this one.
00:14:24
Speaker
On Bond.
00:14:25
Speaker
On Bond, yes.
00:14:26
Speaker
I wonder if it left a sour taste in their mouth.
00:14:30
Speaker
The other thing, too, is people keep dancing around this.
00:14:34
Speaker
It's something that did tie into it.
00:14:36
Speaker
But yeah, also the bar scene, my understanding there's a restriction to what a game can be on location.
00:14:45
Speaker
I don't know exactly what that restriction is, but it had something to do with Stern didn't feel comfortable doing that to their machine.
00:14:50
Speaker
Right.
00:14:52
Speaker
to make up for whatever uh restriction they were coming out for and so i wonder i mean joe talked about this on our show two years ago when we had him on yep he was going for harry potter then he'd been going for harry potter a year before i mean this has been years and years in the making right and so if there were some internal struggle going on at stern and finally jjp's like we'll just meet all your requirements and we'll sign on it right now that could have been it might not been most like the
00:15:20
Speaker
rug out from underneath them but it still was like an internal struggle and honestly if you're having a heck of a time getting this license to agree to stuff and it's taking years and years and years to do so uh this is probably the best opportunity now to get it than any other time so i think it's a good thing jjp got it because if stern can agree on what the game should be right
00:15:44
Speaker
this is probably the only time we would see a Harry Potter game.
00:15:46
Speaker
If that makes sense, because she's been softened up.
00:15:49
Speaker
She's ready to go.
00:15:49
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:15:50
Speaker
JJP is the best alternative to Stern for market penetration.
00:15:56
Speaker
That's the bottom line.
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:58
Speaker
Stern, we know is, is the Goliath in the room.
00:16:02
Speaker
And, and, and,
00:16:04
Speaker
JJP is okay.
00:16:06
Speaker
You probably have Chicago game company in there too, but they, they only have one original license that's coming out.
00:16:13
Speaker
Right.
00:16:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:15
Speaker
And so JJP is the next likely selection just based on they, they do know how to make a quality game and it looks great.
00:16:25
Speaker
And so I, I'm not, I don't think that Stern is going to lose sleep on this.
00:16:33
Speaker
I don't think so either.
00:16:35
Speaker
I bet they wish they could have had it under a situation that works for them.
00:16:42
Speaker
But there's no reason for them to compromise their business model significantly to appease one severe restriction that completely affects their business.
00:17:00
Speaker
So that's why I...
00:17:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:05
Speaker
Full disclosure.
00:17:07
Speaker
I, I appreciate JJP games.
00:17:10
Speaker
I, I do love what they do.
00:17:12
Speaker
Um, I tend to have a little more fun with Stern and so, and I have way more Stern games than I do anything else.
00:17:22
Speaker
Um,
00:17:23
Speaker
it has a lot of them have more of that one more play feel.
00:17:27
Speaker
And there is something that makes me want to come back to them.
00:17:31
Speaker
So if it were a JJ, if it were a Stern game, yeah, I'd probably get it unless the cost was super prohibitive for JJP.
00:17:41
Speaker
I want to see what it is because some JJPs I really like and they're fun, but other JJPs, they just haven't hit that center for me.
00:17:49
Speaker
So that's where I'm a little, I'm a little cautious, but that also gives me the freedom to say I want it or I don't, I'm not buying it side unseen.
COVID-19 Impact and Future Market Trends
00:17:59
Speaker
Definitely.
00:18:00
Speaker
And it makes me wonder too, we're going to get into this later about the used market.
00:18:04
Speaker
We're at least two years out from seeing this game.
00:18:06
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:18:07
Speaker
So, so I don't know if you remember this before COVID, but the used market on a JJP was pretty comparable to like a new
00:18:15
Speaker
stern pro i mean i could get a hobbit for 6500 with no problem yeah um it just my thing is two years from now everyone's talking about there's definitely be a price increase and especially if this is the most expensive license in pinball history there's going to be some compensation for that and so that's the thing though like how many people are going to buy brand new out of the box or just wait three months till you know you can buy it used off the secondary market
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard.
00:18:47
Speaker
It's hard to predict.
00:18:50
Speaker
People are spending money outside the home again.
00:18:53
Speaker
Travel is way up.
00:18:57
Speaker
So home renovations went crazy.
00:19:00
Speaker
Home entertainment options went crazy during COVID.
00:19:04
Speaker
And we know that
00:19:06
Speaker
there people are going back to concerts.
00:19:08
Speaker
People are, uh, people are taking trips with their family.
00:19:12
Speaker
They're spending their money on other experiences right now.
00:19:16
Speaker
And that really has hurt the home environment.
00:19:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:20
Speaker
And that may have some long lasting things that COVID may have been a huge bump for pinball, but it could have also been a temporary blip.
00:19:30
Speaker
It's true as well.
00:19:31
Speaker
So I guess overall with, with Harry Potter,
00:19:34
Speaker
We're excited to see what comes.
00:19:36
Speaker
My nervousness is it's quite a high bar regardless.
00:19:39
Speaker
And so I just, I fear for JJP.
00:19:42
Speaker
I hope that it doesn't become one of those situations that no matter what they reveal, it's going to be a failure kind of thing just because there's going to be such high expectations.
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:50
Speaker
And to be fair, like I am of the Star Wars generation.
00:19:54
Speaker
And when Stern was coming out with Star Wars, I was super excited and I didn't buy it.
00:20:00
Speaker
So that, that totally can happen with any license.
00:20:04
Speaker
So if there was, if there was a license that for me would, it would have been automatic as is a star Wars and I did pass on it and that was a stern game.
00:20:13
Speaker
So, you know, there's no guarantee.
00:20:17
Speaker
And then speaking of JJP and future releases, we want to speculate on some upcoming titles.
Elton John Pinball Speculations
00:20:22
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:20:23
Speaker
It sounds like, I mean, listening to every other podcast and everything coming out, it sounds like Elton John's next from Richie.
00:20:29
Speaker
Yeah, where there's smoke, there's fire.
00:20:30
Speaker
I mean, come on.
00:20:31
Speaker
Yeah, where there's smoke, there's fire.
00:20:32
Speaker
And so I'm really intrigued.
00:20:34
Speaker
I might not be a huge Elton John fan, but I am intrigued about this release because it sort of answers some questions that we've all had.
00:20:43
Speaker
Can Richie design when he doesn't have as restrictive as a build of material?
00:20:49
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:20:51
Speaker
Now that Pat Lawler's gone, and we know that Richie wouldn't be taking slack from Lawler on his designs, are we going to see more mechs?
00:21:02
Speaker
Are we going to see a little bit different design to the playfields?
00:21:05
Speaker
Because it feels like the mechs have really been stripped out over the last four titles.
00:21:10
Speaker
They have been some good stuff.
00:21:12
Speaker
Okay, I'm going to push back because Black Knight, that Black Knight mech was really cool.
00:21:20
Speaker
Sorry, I'm talking specifically about Jersey Jack.
00:21:24
Speaker
Okay, okay, yes, yes.
00:21:25
Speaker
Because, I mean, look at Godfather.
00:21:26
Speaker
You do have the sculpts over there.
00:21:28
Speaker
Sure, sure.
00:21:29
Speaker
But it's more of like a pop bumper underneath.
00:21:32
Speaker
it's like an upside down pop bumper is the best way to cheaper mechanism.
00:21:35
Speaker
That's the bottom line.
00:21:36
Speaker
It's not a, it's not a full featured.
00:21:39
Speaker
And I would say that's black night should have been better.
00:21:43
Speaker
I, I think we can agree on that, that black night should have had more the upper play field.
00:21:49
Speaker
was a total disappointment.
00:21:51
Speaker
It's, it was a flat plexiglass with a, uh, um, like a, the Canon launcher thing that really, they should have ripped that, that thing out and put targets up there or put something way more interesting up there.
00:22:04
Speaker
Um, and so the question is, can, uh,
00:22:08
Speaker
can Richie focus himself to use the build of materials in a way that makes sense?
00:22:15
Speaker
Because that's the Achilles heel from my perspective in, in the last few builds that he had.
00:22:22
Speaker
Well, and I guess to my point is so like toy story only had to jump around.
00:22:26
Speaker
I mean, Wonka didn't really have much besides the spinning gobstopper.
00:22:30
Speaker
And I mean, that's cosmetic.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:34
Speaker
Guns and Roses had the upper play field and some diverters and stuff like that.
00:22:38
Speaker
And it had flippers and whatnot.
00:22:40
Speaker
I mean, really the last game you can think of was Pirates of the Caribbean with the triple spinning disc, which that was then taken out.
00:22:46
Speaker
It had the chest that opened.
00:22:47
Speaker
That was taken out.
00:22:49
Speaker
You had the rocking ship.
00:22:51
Speaker
You have, there was a lot on there.
00:22:54
Speaker
And it feels like they've gravitated away from that.
00:22:56
Speaker
So I'm interested to see what happens with the rich design to see.
00:23:00
Speaker
And don't get me wrong.
00:23:01
Speaker
Mechs don't equal amazing game.
00:23:04
Speaker
Mechs don't equal fun, but it does give you something extra to push you over the edge.
00:23:10
Speaker
But I think when J.J.P.
00:23:12
Speaker
's case, they're a very immersive experience, whereas Stern games are more of a gameplay experience.
00:23:21
Speaker
And that one's bringing more of that immersive experience, like in Godzilla and Avengers and stuff like that.
00:23:26
Speaker
But for the most part, it's more gameplay versus moments, is how I'm going to put it.
00:23:31
Speaker
And JJP is definitely more moments than it is deep.
00:23:37
Speaker
Well, I don't want to say deep gameplay.
00:23:39
Speaker
The gameplay is definitely different.
00:23:40
Speaker
It's just varied.
00:23:41
Speaker
It feels...
00:23:43
Speaker
JJP feels a little bit more like I'm playing a board game with friends and that's not bad.
00:23:48
Speaker
I like board games.
00:23:49
Speaker
It's, it is a different feel.
00:23:52
Speaker
Stern tends to have, have a little more of a go-kart feel where, you know, it's, it's a little fasty, a little punchier, a little faster, a little punchier.
00:24:02
Speaker
And that's what I like from Stern with hot, with, sorry, JJP, all the games, they are fun, but it is different.
00:24:11
Speaker
It is, it's,
00:24:13
Speaker
It's like I'm doing a role-playing thing.
00:24:15
Speaker
The Hobbit is so immersive with that screen and the movie clips and all that.
00:24:21
Speaker
So great.
00:24:23
Speaker
It still doesn't have the gameplay punch that I wanted.
00:24:28
Speaker
But every time you start the dragon multiball, the smog multiball, it's such a cool moment.
00:24:36
Speaker
I mean,
00:24:38
Speaker
That's the thing is I feel like mechs lend themselves really well to JJP games and I feel like they should start heading in that.
00:24:44
Speaker
Don't get me wrong.
00:24:45
Speaker
Don't cut back.
00:24:46
Speaker
Like I feel like Godfather shoots very well and there's a lot of good shots to it.
00:24:50
Speaker
And I haven't played it yet.
00:24:51
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:24:53
Speaker
There could be a complaint that there's almost too many shots because there's like 29 ball paths.
00:24:57
Speaker
But I think we need to go back to those moments.
00:25:00
Speaker
I think that's what made JJP different and special.
00:25:04
Speaker
And I felt like we lost some of that with Toy Story.
00:25:08
Speaker
And we got it back with Guns N' Roses.
00:25:10
Speaker
But it just, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
00:25:16
Speaker
I want to see, we're going to see what happens.
00:25:18
Speaker
And it's probably, let's see, when did Godfather release?
00:25:21
Speaker
In March?
00:25:23
Speaker
So that's the third month.
00:25:24
Speaker
If you add nine months, because they're saying about every nine months, we're going to see, we might see Elton John by the end of the year in December, a December release.
00:25:34
Speaker
So, and then speaking of another release, Stern's next one, which smoke with there's fire, right?
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:42
Speaker
It makes sense, right?
Upcoming Venom Release Discussion
00:25:44
Speaker
We talked about this before at Comic-Con last year.
00:25:47
Speaker
It was super weird that they obviously pushed Venom because they had Ozzy there and Todd McFarlane, who is known for Spider-Man art.
00:25:59
Speaker
And it doesn't take a genius to say, why would these two be together?
00:26:04
Speaker
And it's obvious.
00:26:05
Speaker
With a giant Stern logo right behind them.
00:26:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:08
Speaker
On the booth.
00:26:09
Speaker
Like it wasn't much of a stretch.
00:26:11
Speaker
Like it's obvious that it's going to be something that's Spider-Man related.
00:26:17
Speaker
And rumor has that the Venom is the, is the, is the deal having a comic book version of them.
00:26:22
Speaker
Venom.
00:26:23
Speaker
I actually, I think it's better.
00:26:25
Speaker
It gives him more opportunity.
00:26:27
Speaker
It's kind of like the ultimate version of Spider-Man, the, the vault edition.
00:26:33
Speaker
It gives them a little more options and flexibility and having an Aussie soundtrack is great for that.
00:26:41
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:26:43
Speaker
Here's the question though.
00:26:46
Speaker
Just on the theme and the art and the music, how interested are you in Venom?
00:26:53
Speaker
Okay, so when you say art, has it been talked about yet?
00:27:00
Speaker
I'm pretty for sure zombie yetis on this one.
00:27:02
Speaker
Okay, if it's zombie yeti, then sure.
00:27:04
Speaker
But why would Todd McFarlane even be there then?
00:27:08
Speaker
I think it's a team up.
00:27:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:09
Speaker
I think it's a zombie yeti, Todd McFarlane team up.
00:27:12
Speaker
I don't think Todd did all of it.
00:27:14
Speaker
Okay, but Todd has a very distinctive style.
00:27:18
Speaker
I read comic books in the late 80s, early 90s.
00:27:22
Speaker
Haven't really read them since.
00:27:24
Speaker
But Todd had, it's like the JJP GNR experience, right?
00:27:30
Speaker
There's something different about that game that pulls you in.
00:27:35
Speaker
There was something different about Todd McFarland art that pulled you in.
00:27:40
Speaker
And can you mesh two competing or two different styles?
00:27:45
Speaker
Because Zombie Yeti and Todd McFarlane, they are completely different artists.
00:27:49
Speaker
Imagine Zombie Yeti and Christopher Franchi working together.
00:27:53
Speaker
Well, but here's the thing, though, is every...
00:27:56
Speaker
Every pinball machine doesn't have just one singular artist.
00:28:00
Speaker
They usually do tap in and have some people like doing filler work.
00:28:04
Speaker
I just, I think it's not doing filler work.
00:28:06
Speaker
I'm not saying Todd Barry Bonds is a 73rd home run ball for $10 million.
00:28:13
Speaker
But obviously zombie Eddie knows how to do a play field layout short style.
00:28:17
Speaker
And so that's what I'm saying.
00:28:18
Speaker
Todd McFarlane's done comic books.
00:28:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:20
Speaker
I highly doubt he knows how to come in and fill out a play field.
00:28:24
Speaker
That's where you bring in.
00:28:25
Speaker
That's where you get the tag team, right?
00:28:26
Speaker
You get the, you get the art from Todd.
00:28:28
Speaker
We also get the expertise of zombie.
00:28:30
Speaker
Sure.
00:28:30
Speaker
I really think it's a collaborative effort there.
00:28:33
Speaker
This isn't confirmed, but like there's just, there's been some hints.
00:28:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:38
Speaker
I guess that's all I can say about that.
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker
Um,
00:28:41
Speaker
By the way, we haven't seen Venom.
00:28:43
Speaker
We have no idea.
00:28:44
Speaker
No, I haven't seen Venom.
00:28:47
Speaker
This is us just saying it's been around for so long that I would be utterly shocked if it were not Venom coming up.
00:28:55
Speaker
Well, and like I said, that booth said Todd McFarlane, Ozzy Osbourne, and Stern Pinball.
00:29:00
Speaker
All you had to do was put little plus signs between those logos.
00:29:03
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:29:05
Speaker
By the way, just for context, guess how much Todd McFarlane's worth?
00:29:10
Speaker
I just, I don't even just, I don't guess 4 million, 300 million, really 300 million.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:22
Speaker
Wowzers.
00:29:24
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:29:25
Speaker
That's that is major league there.
00:29:27
Speaker
Hmm.
00:29:29
Speaker
That is, that's only about 300 million more than I have.
00:29:37
Speaker
Um, the one that I'm thinking, sorry,
00:29:41
Speaker
I don't know why it just reminded me, Rob Liefeld.
00:29:43
Speaker
Have you heard of this guy?
00:29:44
Speaker
Well, Rob Liefeld was the, he was the creator of Deadpool.
00:29:47
Speaker
He was of the same era.
00:29:49
Speaker
The four big artists of that era, and I know I'm going down a rabbit hole, was Todd McFarlane, Wiltz Protasio, Rob Liefeld, and Jim Lee.
00:30:00
Speaker
But what's funny to me is like Rob Weifel, cause he was so big.
00:30:02
Speaker
He even had like his designer Levi jeans and it was a commercial of it.
00:30:08
Speaker
But if you ever want a really good chuckle, go check out the 40 worst Rob Weifel draw.
00:30:13
Speaker
He has no idea about anatomy.
00:30:15
Speaker
Like he had muscles in weird places, but he had a visual style that really worked.
00:30:21
Speaker
So he was very specific about like Deadpool and, and creating that character.
00:30:29
Speaker
Um, but which had to be a rip off of death stroke.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:34
Speaker
Slade Wilson, Wade Wilson, the suits.
00:30:38
Speaker
I don't know.
00:30:39
Speaker
Anyhow, but, uh, Wills potassium.
00:30:41
Speaker
I love the style of Wills potassium.
00:30:43
Speaker
He was amazing.
00:30:44
Speaker
However, Jim Lee was the best anatomic one.
00:30:47
Speaker
Like he, he had a, he, if you want to know how to draw super accurate comic book guys, go look at Jim Lee stuff.
00:30:55
Speaker
Oh, definitely.
00:30:57
Speaker
Okay, back to... Meanwhile, back to pinball.
00:30:59
Speaker
Sorry.
00:31:00
Speaker
It's 30 minutes in and we spent 10 minutes talking about pinball.
00:31:03
Speaker
Hey, but it was related.
00:31:04
Speaker
It was related to... It was definitely, 100%.
00:31:07
Speaker
So, Brian Eddy, he's next.
00:31:10
Speaker
So, Brian Eddy on Venom.
00:31:12
Speaker
I'm pretty for sure Dwight Sullivan's going to be tapped in on this one because he's up next as well, based off everything.
00:31:22
Speaker
How do you feel... How do we feel about Eddy?
00:31:25
Speaker
I'm going to go first.
00:31:26
Speaker
Like, okay.
00:31:29
Speaker
I, I appreciate stranger things.
00:31:30
Speaker
I think the problem is it got a lot of slack.
00:31:32
Speaker
Cause it is very much a bench, a bench, a bench Mars attack for Mars.
00:31:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:37
Speaker
Avenged Mars attack for Mars esque layout wise.
00:31:42
Speaker
Come on.
00:31:42
Speaker
It's 2.0.
00:31:42
Speaker
It really is.
00:31:44
Speaker
It really is.
00:31:46
Speaker
It's a re-skinned attack for Mars.
00:31:49
Speaker
That's not bad.
00:31:50
Speaker
I own attack for Mars, which is why I don't own stranger things.
00:31:54
Speaker
And then I do enjoy Mandalorian.
00:31:57
Speaker
I think the problem is though, I feel like you only play really half of the play field because half of it or a court, the top right quarter is taken by the, the mini play field, which is fine.
00:32:09
Speaker
That's part of the game.
00:32:11
Speaker
And then baby Yoda takes the top left half.
00:32:12
Speaker
I know it's like pop bumpers and like all over.
00:32:15
Speaker
It's nothing.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:16
Speaker
It's really not much.
00:32:18
Speaker
And so I'm hoping that,
00:32:22
Speaker
this next iteration from Eddie shows us a little bit further of what he can do because I feel like shadow was great.
00:32:29
Speaker
I mean, obviously medieval madness and attack from our top, top tier games.
00:32:34
Speaker
I, I just, I worry.
00:32:35
Speaker
I don't know.
00:32:37
Speaker
It just makes me chuckle.
00:32:38
Speaker
Cause like, what was it?
00:32:39
Speaker
Four years ago, they announced that he was, it was even longer than me.
00:32:43
Speaker
It was five years ago.
00:32:44
Speaker
They announced Eddie was working at Stern and I remember like Mike drop Stern's won the game, like Stern's in the lead or whatever.
00:32:51
Speaker
And it's funny cause it doesn't really feel that way.
00:32:56
Speaker
And don't get me wrong.
00:32:56
Speaker
I enjoy Eddie.
00:32:57
Speaker
I appreciate what he's done for pinball and whatnot, but I don't think anyone planned on what Elwin was going to do to, to the industry.
Keith Elwin's Influence on Design
00:33:05
Speaker
Right.
00:33:05
Speaker
It was Eddie and Elwin came in similar times really, uh,
00:33:10
Speaker
Um, and Ellen has about the same amount of games as Eddie does now.
00:33:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:17
Speaker
Uh, they, the challenge is, um,
00:33:21
Speaker
Elwin is the modern take on pinball.
00:33:25
Speaker
It is driven every other design into different directions.
00:33:30
Speaker
Eddie is the, it's kind of the retro design.
00:33:34
Speaker
The stranger things, I think it's a solid game Mandalorian.
00:33:39
Speaker
I'm not a huge fan of gimmick play fields.
00:33:41
Speaker
And that's actually why I sold my Mandalorian.
00:33:45
Speaker
Because I,
00:33:47
Speaker
The upper right with the play field that goes up and down.
00:33:50
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:51
Speaker
It's fine.
00:33:52
Speaker
But it feels like, do you know what it felt like?
00:33:55
Speaker
It felt like Shrek where you get the, the upper right, you know, the mini pinball and it's kind of a different donkey.
00:34:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:04
Speaker
It's like a different, you know, same with family guy, whatever.
00:34:08
Speaker
But it felt like, okay, this isn't really part of the game.
00:34:11
Speaker
This is like a side quest, but it takes up so much real estate.
00:34:17
Speaker
I'm hoping he can, and if you, if you look at the other things, medieval madness is not that way.
00:34:23
Speaker
There's not really a gimmick side area.
00:34:26
Speaker
There's, there's great shots in that attack from Mars has great shots.
00:34:31
Speaker
So I I'm curious to see what his next design is, but I'm also, I'm totally undecided.
00:34:40
Speaker
This is, this is one of those where I'm going to have to see it.
00:34:44
Speaker
to order it or play it or to buy it.
00:34:46
Speaker
I have to play it.
00:34:47
Speaker
I have to see it.
00:34:49
Speaker
So it's, yeah, I think the jury's still out.
00:34:53
Speaker
I guess I'll put it that way.
00:34:55
Speaker
Definitely.
00:34:57
Speaker
Speaking of Elwin, let's talk Godzilla topper.
00:35:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:02
Speaker
Let's talk about toppers.
00:35:04
Speaker
Or do you want to let it breathe for a second and we can hurry and talk about the one other Elwin thing I want to talk about really quick.
00:35:09
Speaker
Okay, go ahead.
00:35:10
Speaker
I just want to talk about, there's something that Elwin's done in his games recently that I don't think we take, we kind of take for granted a little bit.
00:35:17
Speaker
The 180 ramp is redefining pinball as like, you know how we're taking out pop bumper nests?
00:35:26
Speaker
I feel like the 180 ramp does something very unique that has expanded on pinball.
00:35:31
Speaker
The reason being is, is
00:35:33
Speaker
you get a lot of bang for your buck in a very small area.
00:35:38
Speaker
And so like with Jurassic Park, it creates a lot more real estate, but it creates a very dynamic shot right in the middle of the play field.
00:35:47
Speaker
And then like look on Godzilla, the back left ramp is actually one of those 180 ramps that flips it back.
00:35:52
Speaker
It creates, it's got, it's so perfected that
00:35:57
Speaker
Typically a shot like this could either clunk or it would be very hard to hit.
00:36:02
Speaker
It would reject a lot.
00:36:04
Speaker
Somehow they've perfected it and just made it smooth.
00:36:08
Speaker
And in the past, I've been thinking about this.
00:36:10
Speaker
In the past, this shot was only accomplished by a vertical up kicker.
00:36:14
Speaker
You would shoot it into a saucer and then that saucer would be hit by a vertical up kicker.
00:36:18
Speaker
And that, which, I mean, look at, my best example would be like Dr. Dude.
00:36:24
Speaker
when you're shooting the, I think it's not the heart ramp.
00:36:28
Speaker
It's one of those, but you'd shoot an exhaust or an up kicker.
00:36:32
Speaker
It's the same idea.
00:36:33
Speaker
It's Simpson's pinball party.
00:36:34
Speaker
You shoot in the garage, you have to wait for it to kick up.
00:36:38
Speaker
Correct.
00:36:38
Speaker
You're cutting out time for the ball to be moving.
00:36:41
Speaker
You get faster movement.
00:36:43
Speaker
Your bomb is lower because you're cutting out a coil, which you can, and then that's node board space.
00:36:50
Speaker
I just, I think there's,
00:36:53
Speaker
as i'm just dissecting more and more of elwyn's games there's just little nuances like that because we don't have a vertical up kicker in that spot that means that's money that can be spent somewhere else on the play field and so this is this is why elwyn is smart when he designs because he's taking things like this applying into the game
00:37:15
Speaker
And which then he can put more into the game.
00:37:17
Speaker
And that's why we get Godzilla.
00:37:19
Speaker
I can't wait for his next game.
00:37:20
Speaker
Like, I'm really excited.
00:37:21
Speaker
Like I'm excited.
00:37:22
Speaker
Iron Man is here on Friday.
00:37:24
Speaker
But I just.
00:37:25
Speaker
Iron Maiden.
00:37:27
Speaker
Yeah, my Iron Maiden is here on Friday.
00:37:28
Speaker
You said Iron Man.
00:37:30
Speaker
Sorry, Iron Maiden.
00:37:31
Speaker
And then whenever he releases his next one, which rumor being is.
00:37:37
Speaker
Jaws.
00:37:39
Speaker
Well, Jaws too.
00:37:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:41
Speaker
But first of the year is probably when we're going to see it ish.
00:37:45
Speaker
You hit on something that's really important and.
00:37:49
Speaker
The three-dimensionality that Elwyn has brought to the design process where he has... It's not like he's designing a complete flat playfield.
00:38:03
Speaker
I mean, everyone has habit trails.
00:38:04
Speaker
Everyone has everything like that.
00:38:06
Speaker
But the velocity at which he incorporates the 3D space above the playfield is what has made him be the new king of flow.
00:38:17
Speaker
He really is that the ball does not stop.
00:38:20
Speaker
You can keep that ball flying around and it, it, it creates that, that, that kinetic momentum that we're all craving for in pinball.
00:38:33
Speaker
So, so that's exactly what it is.
00:38:36
Speaker
And think about the economy of a shot.
00:38:40
Speaker
It basically takes something that could have been a scoop shot and
00:38:45
Speaker
and makes it into a very dynamic high flow shot.
00:38:50
Speaker
And I will say that the three, the, the vertical, you know, the reverse ramps, they don't clunk.
00:38:58
Speaker
They don't, there's so much velocity of those things going in that it just flies.
00:39:04
Speaker
So absolutely.
00:39:05
Speaker
If, if there's one thing that has changed the game for pinball, it's the velocity at which you are playing constantly.
00:39:14
Speaker
by his economy of design.
00:39:18
Speaker
Kind of said better.
00:39:19
Speaker
So, all right, let's move on to this Godzilla topper.
Criticism of Godzilla Topper
00:39:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:26
Speaker
I am.
00:39:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:28
Speaker
Am I an idiot?
00:39:29
Speaker
I am actually buying the topper.
00:39:31
Speaker
I'm buying the topper because it's, it's a game that I'm going to keep for a long time.
00:39:39
Speaker
I don't see me selling Godzilla really anytime soon, if ever.
00:39:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:46
Speaker
So my thought was, okay, if I want to buy it, I should buy it now.
00:39:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:53
Speaker
The, the challenge that I have with Stern's approach to toppers and their accessories is that I wish they had the same commitment to excellence and quality.
00:40:10
Speaker
and value for their accessory kit that they do for their machines.
00:40:17
Speaker
When you buy a game, yes.
00:40:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:40:19
Speaker
It's still expensive, right?
00:40:21
Speaker
I mean, this is, these are small cars here.
00:40:23
Speaker
It's still expensive, but you know, I'm buying this game and compared to what else is out there, I'm getting a higher quality, a higher fun game for 2000 cheaper than I'm getting other options.
00:40:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:40
Speaker
So why don't they have a dedicated team that all they're doing is making cool looking stuff and the topper, they have disguised their toppers by adding a boatload of lights.
00:41:01
Speaker
So they are, they have become Walmart displays and end cap toppers.
00:41:08
Speaker
That's what they've become.
00:41:09
Speaker
Where you go into Walmart, there's an end cap, you know, which is the premium real estate in the, in the store, right?
00:41:15
Speaker
Because everybody walks past the end caps.
00:41:18
Speaker
So there's something that's eye catching.
00:41:21
Speaker
So yes, it still accomplishes the job.
00:41:24
Speaker
You see Godzilla, but my gosh, isn't, is it not exactly the same Godzilla that's on the play field already?
00:41:34
Speaker
I'm pretty for sure.
00:41:36
Speaker
It is exactly the same.
00:41:39
Speaker
And so you have this exactly the same.
00:41:42
Speaker
You have this, this, uh, smoke fire thing that they stole from the Adams family and put up there.
00:41:50
Speaker
They have, are the, the tanks aren't even 3d, right?
00:41:53
Speaker
They're like plastic to their flat plastic.
00:41:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:56
Speaker
They're flat plastic.
00:41:57
Speaker
Uh, okay.
00:41:58
Speaker
I will say a plus for all of Elwin's games.
00:42:02
Speaker
My gosh, his toppers fall.
00:42:05
Speaker
like that stern produces for his games are the laziest toppers ever.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:11
Speaker
They are super lazy.
00:42:12
Speaker
Like the Godzilla or the, uh, the Jurassic park topper.
00:42:17
Speaker
You know what?
00:42:17
Speaker
There were better alternatives out there.
00:42:20
Speaker
There really were.
00:42:20
Speaker
And I understand the better alternatives weren't paying licensing.
00:42:24
Speaker
They were,
00:42:26
Speaker
They were certainly operating in a gray area if that is even a thing because they were unlicensed.
00:42:34
Speaker
And so they had a lot more freedom to do whatever they wanted.
00:42:37
Speaker
But they at least provided something that was visually more interesting.
00:42:43
Speaker
And I will say the Infinity Quest topper, it's fine.
00:42:48
Speaker
It's layered, but it still feels it's 2D lights.
00:42:52
Speaker
It's 2D plastic with a whole bunch of lights, which still, yeah, it looks good from a distance.
00:42:57
Speaker
But man, when you compare these to any topper that Chicago gaming company has done, it's laughable.
00:43:06
Speaker
They look like they are not putting forth the effort.
00:43:12
Speaker
I appreciate that they have gone to the effort of putting art blades, which I know it's just eye candy, right?
00:43:21
Speaker
But they look good.
00:43:23
Speaker
The only art blades that I didn't like really were Mandalorian art blades because it was just the heads.
00:43:29
Speaker
But that's a style question, right?
00:43:32
Speaker
It just wasn't my thing.
00:43:33
Speaker
But if you look at the topper game that they're bringing,
00:43:39
Speaker
It's just not there.
00:43:41
Speaker
And everybody says, okay, vote with your wallet, which is fine.
00:43:45
Speaker
I totally get it.
00:43:47
Speaker
I'm willing to buy it because I want a complete game.
00:43:51
Speaker
But there are some parts of their games that I did not buy the shooter rod, the Godzilla X shooter rod, because I actually bought two shooter rods, which were cool, but they don't really help out gameplay.
00:44:07
Speaker
Like the shooter rod on Infinity Quest, the shooter rod on Jurassic Park.
00:44:13
Speaker
I use the button anyway to launch anyway.
00:44:16
Speaker
And the shooter rod that they use for Avengers Infinity Quest, the spring is the wrong spring.
00:44:25
Speaker
You full plunge it and it doesn't even do that.
00:44:28
Speaker
So the question is, who is, why don't they have a dedicated team?
00:44:34
Speaker
They are making so much money off this stuff.
00:44:37
Speaker
And I totally understand.
00:44:38
Speaker
This is me being a fan boy who is complaining, but having a thousand dollar topper for a game that costs, you know, 10 to 10 to 15% of a game.
00:44:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:51
Speaker
And there, there does come a point where you're thinking, wow, you really are just fleecing people who just have more money than, than they know what to do with.
00:45:02
Speaker
And so, so maybe, maybe my bar should be higher, higher for toppers and, and I should give games a little more of a pass.
00:45:12
Speaker
Man, you're getting kind of worked up there like the deeper conversation.
00:45:15
Speaker
For a man buying this topper, he sure... I still think it will... Okay, the fire mode in the back actually looks kind of cool.
00:45:23
Speaker
It really does.
00:45:24
Speaker
It has the fire thing going up on the buildings.
00:45:26
Speaker
It does make it feel like a complete game.
00:45:29
Speaker
They do put a lot of lights interaction in it.
00:45:31
Speaker
So that is something to do.
00:45:33
Speaker
But the gap between what I want them to make in a topper and what they are making is wide.
00:45:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:45:42
Speaker
We got to take into consideration, though, that if Zombie Yeti is on Venom, right?
00:45:52
Speaker
And he just did Foo Fighters.
00:45:53
Speaker
That's back-to-back releases.
00:45:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:56
Speaker
And a year or two ago, he had Avengers and Turtles, which were back-to-back releases.
00:46:04
Speaker
So obviously, Zombie Yeti is at max capacity right now, right?
00:46:08
Speaker
And to keep these toppers cohesive, he is the one doing the topper art as well.
00:46:12
Speaker
Cause he talked on turtles.
00:46:14
Speaker
He actually tapped his, his daughter.
00:46:17
Speaker
Yes.
00:46:17
Speaker
His, his daughter brought his dog did a guest art.
00:46:20
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:46:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:21
Speaker
So, so the, the thing is, is the toppers are an afterthought, a complete afterthought, which is why I'm saying, why don't they have a topper team?
00:46:33
Speaker
Like have three people on it.
00:46:36
Speaker
I agree, but who do you tap to be your artist then to keep it cohesive?
00:46:39
Speaker
Because Zombie Yeti, you still have to do the art, and really those toppers are mostly art with some light.
00:46:44
Speaker
Well, okay, but that's what they've defaulted to.
00:46:47
Speaker
If they had a better Godzilla sculpt up there, then you don't really need Zombie Yeti.
00:46:54
Speaker
I guarantee Zombie Yeti didn't do the Godzilla doll in there.
00:46:59
Speaker
True.
00:46:59
Speaker
So I guess that does bring... You would either have to step up your game to the point that you're doing nothing but 3D models, you're going the CGC route, and you're putting behind the cohesiveness of the artwork.
00:47:13
Speaker
If you're doing 3D models, it's probably going to be cohesive anyway.
00:47:17
Speaker
But...
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you on that point.
00:47:22
Speaker
And it's so weird to me because these accessories come out and then they're released once a year.
00:47:27
Speaker
It's so weird.
00:47:29
Speaker
And then we don't see them again for another year or something like that.
00:47:33
Speaker
I don't fully understand.
00:47:34
Speaker
Is it just...
00:47:36
Speaker
a side project, a side hustle for Stern.
00:47:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:39
Speaker
However, they, they could make, okay, this is me again.
00:47:43
Speaker
I will, I will pull out my, my Josh sharp fact checking a red card and say, I have nothing to back my statements up.
00:47:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:47:53
Speaker
I don't worry.
00:47:54
Speaker
I don't work in marketing.
00:47:55
Speaker
I haven't done the analysis on it.
00:47:58
Speaker
However, when medieval madness decided to up their game for their topper, I bought their topper and,
00:48:05
Speaker
which was like 750 or 800.
00:48:08
Speaker
And it is a 3d sculpt that has lights on it, right?
00:48:14
Speaker
That's, that's all.
00:48:15
Speaker
And it looks so good.
00:48:18
Speaker
And you can't tell me that you can't do a similar thing.
00:48:23
Speaker
for a decent profit margin.
00:48:26
Speaker
If you could buy, you could buy a $300 Godzilla toy and glue it to the top of your game.
00:48:33
Speaker
And it would look more like it would look more connected to the game than having a zip tied Godzilla up there.
00:48:43
Speaker
So I think here's where everyone's having the issue.
00:48:45
Speaker
It doesn't look fantastic.
00:48:47
Speaker
It doesn't look, okay.
00:48:49
Speaker
I won't say it doesn't look terrible, but okay.
00:48:51
Speaker
I will say,
00:48:52
Speaker
It is okay.
00:48:54
Speaker
It's a, it's a Toyota Corolla.
00:48:58
Speaker
It's functional.
00:48:59
Speaker
It looks fine.
00:49:01
Speaker
It gets you from point a to B, but would you rather have that or I don't know, a, a Corvette?
00:49:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:10
Speaker
But my point being is, is like, I think this is where people are having an issue is.
00:49:14
Speaker
either go the thousand dollar price tag and build quality.
00:49:18
Speaker
Like I didn't hear any, like, yeah, two, two grand was a lot for a Mandalorian.
00:49:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:22
Speaker
And I will say that that wasn't for me.
00:49:25
Speaker
That was, that was a bridge too far, but I didn't, they may have complained about the price, but I didn't feel like they complained about the quality of the topper.
00:49:35
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:49:36
Speaker
Either you got to understand, like a lot of people are new into this hobby.
00:49:40
Speaker
Stern toppers went to a thousand dollars with what?
00:49:43
Speaker
Like it wasn't even black night sort of rage.
00:49:45
Speaker
It was after that.
00:49:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:46
Speaker
It's only been in the last two, three years.
00:49:49
Speaker
And even then an expensive hopper, which was the black night topper was $650 brand new on the box.
00:49:56
Speaker
And that's actually amazing.
00:49:57
Speaker
Wasn't that 450 to start with?
00:50:00
Speaker
I don't think it was, but I think the toppers before the flat plastic one, so like the Deadpool one was 400 bucks.
00:50:06
Speaker
And so it's like either go back to the $400 price tag and do flat plastics or meet the quality of the thousand dollar price tag.
00:50:15
Speaker
But here's the problem.
00:50:15
Speaker
People are buying it.
00:50:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:17
Speaker
People are buying it.
00:50:19
Speaker
I totally get it.
00:50:19
Speaker
Why is there any motive for Stern?
00:50:21
Speaker
Apparently they can put, they can take the toy off of Godzilla's play field.
00:50:26
Speaker
They're like, Oh, we'll just produce more of these slap it on a topper.
00:50:30
Speaker
with some LEDs and some flat plastics, and there's $1,000.
00:50:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:50:35
Speaker
Just looking at the picture of the topper again, do you know what it looks like?
00:50:38
Speaker
It looks like Godzilla is an elf and talking to Mr. Narwhal before he hops off on the iceberg.
00:50:45
Speaker
That's what it looks like.
00:50:47
Speaker
It's Mr. Narwhal popping out of the top of the Godzilla game.
00:50:51
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:50:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:50:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:54
Speaker
I just, well, I guess, are they selling though?
00:50:56
Speaker
Cause I've heard from some distributors.
00:50:59
Speaker
I know some people have backed out now.
00:51:02
Speaker
Now I've heard, are they still making, maybe they're, they're making what they want out of it.
00:51:08
Speaker
true but my point being is is like so i heard some distributors can't keep these in stock i've heard other distributors they're trying to pawn this get other distributors to buy it because they can't sell them at all so it's this weird mix of like some are selling some are not some are embarrassed to even be having this product because they don't feel like it matches the quality of what a started product should be if your distributor feels that way you should rethink things like yeah it's i i just wish that
00:51:38
Speaker
You're right.
00:51:39
Speaker
It's the, the guardians of the galaxy topper, which they're not even making anymore.
00:51:45
Speaker
They, I mean, that was 400 bucks or something.
00:51:48
Speaker
And it completed the visual aspect of the game.
00:51:52
Speaker
And I'm not really complaining about that one.
00:51:54
Speaker
The other ones, it just, it feels like they've gotten lazier and more expensive.
00:52:00
Speaker
I agree.
00:52:01
Speaker
I think if you made a flat past, if you went into the topper game right now, I know everyone wants to go bigger and better because the first thing I saw after this was announced was like three other mod companies like check out our gods are the topper.
00:52:13
Speaker
It's better.
00:52:14
Speaker
Whatever.
00:52:14
Speaker
I'm like, if you really want to make some money, maybe you won't.
00:52:17
Speaker
You just...
00:52:18
Speaker
3d print a bunch of flat plastics and stick it on a topper with some leds and sell it for 200 bucks, 300 bucks.
00:52:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:25
Speaker
I don't know.
00:52:26
Speaker
I don't know.
00:52:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:26
Speaker
I don't know.
00:52:27
Speaker
The measles mods has one that you can put up there that's cheaper and that is licensed.
00:52:32
Speaker
yeah.
00:52:33
Speaker
All right.
00:52:34
Speaker
Uh, let's move on to, I, there's a topic that I've wanted to hit for a couple episodes now.
00:52:38
Speaker
I feel like a lot of people aren't talking about it.
00:52:41
Speaker
Uh, maybe they are.
00:52:42
Speaker
I don't know.
00:52:44
Speaker
Uh,
00:52:45
Speaker
My pinball podcasts lately have been very narrowed down.
00:52:49
Speaker
I do listen to pinball podcasts, but it feels like the content's not being put out as much anymore as well.
00:52:55
Speaker
Anywho, the topic at hand, I want to talk about the used market.
Market Downturn and Buyer Advice
00:52:59
Speaker
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:53:01
Speaker
We've seen a decline definitely in the last six months.
00:53:07
Speaker
I will start off by saying, though, I don't think – everyone keeps saying the bubble's going to burst.
00:53:11
Speaker
I think for the bubble to burst –
00:53:15
Speaker
like that means we're going back to ground zero.
00:53:17
Speaker
I just don't see that happening with pinball.
00:53:19
Speaker
I don't see if I know that flattens, that's what's going to happen.
00:53:24
Speaker
It's going to flatten and depress.
00:53:26
Speaker
It's going to flatten like the housing market.
00:53:30
Speaker
But I don't think we see,
00:53:32
Speaker
the mid two thousands of where like used pinball machines were just being thrown in the trash versus being worth people.
00:53:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:42
Speaker
Um, I don't think we get back to that point where you can get a pinball machine for like 500 bucks.
00:53:47
Speaker
That's, that's a modern pinball machine.
00:53:51
Speaker
Um, definitely EM all day, but what I'm seeing now,
00:53:56
Speaker
and mates because i've just been trying to sell pinball machines which i am now glad that my the machines i need sold are gone because it's been a pain in the neck it really has um i had one person offer me half of what i was asking for god for guardians of the galaxy yeah half like and when i just i i didn't even want to all the emotions that came with that i just said no yeah i just i'm not even justifying you with like a
00:54:25
Speaker
you know, a very wordy text.
00:54:27
Speaker
Let's just put that right.
00:54:28
Speaker
No, no, thanks.
00:54:29
Speaker
That's not so friendly.
00:54:31
Speaker
And they, they were ballsy enough to write back.
00:54:34
Speaker
Well, if you change your mind, we're more than happy to take it off your hands.
00:54:39
Speaker
I'm like, I want to save this person the next time they're selling.
00:54:41
Speaker
I'm just going to hit them for every ad on Facebook and be like, hey, will you take half?
00:54:45
Speaker
Will you take half?
00:54:46
Speaker
I'll take it off your hand.
00:54:47
Speaker
I will say that that's... By the way, I just sent you a few links to some 3D options for... There's basically things that you could just glue on the top of your machine and it would look better for $100.
00:55:01
Speaker
There are people who are... I would say...
00:55:09
Speaker
aggressive shoppers out there.
00:55:11
Speaker
And there's, there's a tactic that, and I, a tactic that if you, uh, on eBay, it says a surprise.
00:55:20
Speaker
I actually saw this about a week ago, a surprisingly effective strategy for, uh, it was like, or best offer.
00:55:29
Speaker
And it said, uh, 50% of what they're, they're asking, uh,
00:55:34
Speaker
And it was like a straight 50% because they, you're not going to get tons of hits, but you're going to get enough where people are like, yeah, okay.
00:55:43
Speaker
I just want to sell it.
00:55:45
Speaker
So I, I think that you're getting a lot of people who have that tactic that they're just, they're shooting 50% out there and just see, you know, it's like throwing the fishing line in the water.
00:55:58
Speaker
to see what happens.
00:55:59
Speaker
And, and sometimes you may get that, that owner who's like, you know, I just want to get rid of it and move on.
00:56:05
Speaker
I, I got our house for, for actually a really good deal.
00:56:10
Speaker
Like we walked into about 50,000 in equity.
00:56:13
Speaker
And what happened is, is that they, they listed the house and they just want a quick sale.
00:56:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:19
Speaker
So they, so it ended up that we, we saw like the house was on the market for four days and they had four offers.
00:56:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:26
Speaker
So I understand.
00:56:28
Speaker
However, I will say it feels a little bit like, are you kidding me?
00:56:33
Speaker
Like, and so I don't know.
00:56:36
Speaker
And like, I get, I don't know.
00:56:38
Speaker
Like I had people offering me $800 less than I was asking, but at that point, and then I feel like I can counter back.
00:56:44
Speaker
Like, yeah, it's a little, but this is, this is where I can go.
00:56:47
Speaker
There's some negotiation room where you're taking $3,700 off of a pinball machine.
00:56:52
Speaker
No, that's what it is.
00:56:53
Speaker
It's a straight 50%.
00:56:55
Speaker
They are not because they say you're actually getting your success rate is higher on offering 50% than it is on offering 60% or 70% because it's a quick, easy calculation for the owner.
00:57:11
Speaker
It's a weird tactic.
00:57:12
Speaker
I totally understand why you can be miffed on something that you're trying to sell for $7,000 and they're offering 3,500, but it is a well-known tactic.
00:57:23
Speaker
So I think the other thing, okay, let's, I've got some cold, hard facts.
00:57:26
Speaker
Let's, let's go through this really quick about the use, use market.
00:57:29
Speaker
You and I were discussing this before the episode.
00:57:36
Speaker
Unless if you're an Elwin, let's go, let's hit Godzilla.
00:57:39
Speaker
Cause Godzilla is in second place right now to Foo Fighters.
00:57:42
Speaker
Cause you know, that's the newest.
00:57:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:46
Speaker
That's a, that's some great inflation right there.
00:57:48
Speaker
So we all know once the new hotness comes out, it always goes to number one.
00:57:53
Speaker
Okay, Godzilla, there are eight for sale on the market right now.
00:57:59
Speaker
We're doing everything through Pinside.
00:58:01
Speaker
I'm not going.
00:58:02
Speaker
Okay.
00:58:03
Speaker
The cheapest right now for sale that doesn't have a pending is $9,900.
00:58:09
Speaker
And it looks like they're floating around $99,000, $10,000, $10,700, $10,500.
00:58:13
Speaker
So...
00:58:21
Speaker
It looks like Godzilla obviously is about or higher than New Inbox, which is what we've seen for the last couple years.
00:58:31
Speaker
All right.
00:58:32
Speaker
The one that has, let's hear you talk about, what was the other one that I was talking about?
00:58:37
Speaker
Iron Maiden.
00:58:37
Speaker
So, because my Iron Maiden Pro is going to be here on Friday, I was like, I was curious.
00:58:42
Speaker
There are four on the market.
00:58:44
Speaker
Out of those four, the very base one is $7,000 and it goes all the way up to $8,700.
00:58:52
Speaker
So, that's pretty good.
00:58:55
Speaker
That's a pretty good margin, right?
00:58:56
Speaker
Like, that's still at a new inbox or higher.
00:59:02
Speaker
Okay, the one that I was, because we've talked about this, I know you feel that Ninja Turtles isn't a fantastic game.
00:59:10
Speaker
But I prefer the Pro over the Premium.
00:59:15
Speaker
And I think that's what Sourgy was, the Premium, right?
00:59:17
Speaker
The Premium, well, it didn't help that my glider malfunctioned within like a week of me buying it.
00:59:22
Speaker
Correct.
00:59:24
Speaker
So a Turtles Premium, the very base right now,
00:59:29
Speaker
Mind you, they're not making these anymore.
00:59:32
Speaker
So I can't say like new in box should be around 9,700 because that's what premiums are going for right now, right?
00:59:38
Speaker
If it were on the line today, it would sell for that.
00:59:41
Speaker
If it were on the line today.
00:59:42
Speaker
But let's even go back to six months ago.
00:59:47
Speaker
You're at eight, not eight grand.
00:59:49
Speaker
You're at nine grand, right?
00:59:50
Speaker
That's brand new out of the box because there was a $700 increase.
00:59:54
Speaker
The base right now.
00:59:55
Speaker
Can you, well, you know, the base right now is 7,100 and that is city.
01:00:02
Speaker
That's not even that.
01:00:04
Speaker
That's, that's a price of a pro new inbox.
01:00:07
Speaker
Okay.
01:00:07
Speaker
Well, I also, I read this off pin side that there is a pro, a very well modded pro.
01:00:17
Speaker
Yes.
01:00:18
Speaker
Including the topper on turtles for 6,500.
01:00:25
Speaker
So if you want a turtles by this now, yeah.
01:00:31
Speaker
Um, a lot of these other premiums are sitting around eight, 8,300, 8,400.
01:00:35
Speaker
I mean, we're still lower than new in box.
01:00:40
Speaker
It is what it is, which is what it should be to be, to be blunt.
01:00:44
Speaker
Uh, a used game should go for 500 to a thousand less than the new.
01:00:51
Speaker
And it should, it should, that's what the market should be.
01:00:54
Speaker
Um,
01:00:55
Speaker
Let's pull up Mando's really quick.
01:00:58
Speaker
This is exciting.
01:00:59
Speaker
Everyone's like, oh.
01:01:01
Speaker
Well, we can cut this part out.
01:01:02
Speaker
Actually, will you look up Mandalorian?
01:01:04
Speaker
I'm going to hurry.
01:01:05
Speaker
I want to talk Avengers because Avengers is still an Elwing game, right?
01:01:07
Speaker
Yeah, it is.
01:01:09
Speaker
It's considered probably, okay, out of the top 100, it's his lowest rated out of the top 100.
01:01:15
Speaker
Yeah, what is it, 15 or 16?
01:01:17
Speaker
19 now.
01:01:20
Speaker
I know.
01:01:21
Speaker
Life is rough when you're in 19.
01:01:22
Speaker
How many does Steve Ritchie have in the top 10?
01:01:24
Speaker
Let's talk premiums.
01:01:24
Speaker
Right now, you're looking at a base 7,400.
01:01:26
Speaker
I mean, one just sold at 7,800.
01:01:29
Speaker
Yeah, 8,000.
01:01:29
Speaker
I see a 7,000 premium with mods.
01:01:33
Speaker
I see that.
01:01:49
Speaker
7,300.
01:01:49
Speaker
Where are you seeing the 7,000?
01:01:51
Speaker
That one's 7,800.
01:01:51
Speaker
It's kind of crossed out, though.
01:01:54
Speaker
No, there's another one.
01:01:57
Speaker
6,950.
01:01:59
Speaker
So if you're looking for an Avengers premium.
01:02:01
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry.
01:02:02
Speaker
No, I'm looking at Mandalorians.
01:02:04
Speaker
You were looking at Avengers?
01:02:05
Speaker
Yeah, I heard he brought up Avengers while you were looking at Mandalorians.
01:02:09
Speaker
Okay, sorry.
01:02:10
Speaker
But my point being is this is an L1 game.
01:02:12
Speaker
You can tell your part.
01:02:15
Speaker
I probably won't.
01:02:15
Speaker
Okay, all right.
01:02:17
Speaker
But this is an Elwin game and the base is 7,400.
01:02:20
Speaker
They're still making these brand new off the line.
01:02:22
Speaker
It's going to be $9,700.
01:02:23
Speaker
I mean, that's a 7,400.
01:02:23
Speaker
That's, that's a $2,300.
01:02:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:24
Speaker
Which again is that's reasonable.
01:02:32
Speaker
I wonder how much shipping plays into this as well.
01:02:34
Speaker
Cause last time I checked shipping was ridiculous.
01:02:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:39
Speaker
And also it's kind of a, it's kind of a pain.
01:02:42
Speaker
I brought this up last time that I, my biggest hurdle to selling a game is I just hate the game of selling and dealing with, with people who are offering $3,000 for a $12,000 game.
01:02:55
Speaker
I just hate that.
01:03:00
Speaker
I sold my Mandalorian so I could buy a Cactus Canyon.
01:03:03
Speaker
So that's, that's what happened there.
01:03:05
Speaker
But it was to a friend.
01:03:07
Speaker
So that was, that was pretty easy.
01:03:09
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:11
Speaker
So yeah, getting back to Mandalorian, but yeah, you, you're, I just pulled up Mando with you.
01:03:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:16
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:17
Speaker
7,000.
01:03:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:18
Speaker
If you're a North Carolina area, you want to, Hey, there's one in Louisiana that you can get for $50 less.
01:03:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:25
Speaker
Good, cry me.
01:03:26
Speaker
And there's also eight on this one as well.
01:03:29
Speaker
We're starting to see a flood of the market.
01:03:31
Speaker
I don't know if it's because people- There's a 9,000 with animated Grogu, so.
01:03:36
Speaker
Nice.
01:03:37
Speaker
Nice.
01:03:38
Speaker
Okay.
01:03:38
Speaker
So in fairness, that's what I, you should anticipate spending 500 to a thousand less for a home use only game from, from what the line is.
01:03:54
Speaker
So that, so I think that's reasonable to expect that now, but I think the days are gone of we're going to spend,
01:04:06
Speaker
9,700 on a new inbox and get 9,700 out of it.
01:04:09
Speaker
Oh yeah.
01:04:10
Speaker
No, in very few games will do that.
01:04:13
Speaker
And it's because this is econ one 10 boys and girls.
01:04:19
Speaker
Once the supply catches up with demand, there will be an adjustment to the curve.
01:04:26
Speaker
And, and the, uh, the $4 trillion, uh, rain checks are not coming in anymore.
01:04:34
Speaker
The economy stimulation has been spent.
01:04:39
Speaker
Yep.
01:04:39
Speaker
And some of you spent your money unwisely.
01:04:42
Speaker
Yes.
01:04:43
Speaker
Yes.
01:04:44
Speaker
You spent poorly.
01:04:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:46
Speaker
But like I said, there's going to be some bright spots, right?
01:04:50
Speaker
In the user market.
01:04:50
Speaker
The Stranger Things is still going to sell high.
01:04:52
Speaker
They didn't make a ton of them.
01:04:54
Speaker
That's the supply and demand.
01:04:56
Speaker
Just getting back to supply and demand.
01:04:58
Speaker
The demand may not be as high for a Stranger Things as it is for a Godzilla, but the supply is way lower.
01:05:06
Speaker
Correct.
01:05:07
Speaker
Even though I think they should remake it to be plunge.
01:05:09
Speaker
So I think that should be something we should be talking about is like, because I hear a lot of people getting frustrated with the market.
01:05:15
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:05:16
Speaker
Um, and the fact that like new prices, new inbox prices are still pretty high and they don't seem to be trending down at all.
01:05:24
Speaker
No.
01:05:25
Speaker
Um, but that's the thing though, is like the use market is coming down and as people start turning towards the use market instead of buying new inbox, cause that was kind of the joke with Harry Potter.
01:05:35
Speaker
Like it's going to come out new.
01:05:38
Speaker
Let's say it comes out like the base model is $15,000, but I'll just wait three months and get it for 10.
01:05:43
Speaker
I mean, Hobbit's,
01:05:45
Speaker
are going for like 8,500 right now.
01:05:47
Speaker
I remember when you could use to get them for 6,500.
01:05:50
Speaker
That feels about right for a hobbit.
01:05:52
Speaker
It does 8,500 feels about right.
01:05:56
Speaker
True.
01:05:56
Speaker
Um, but my point being is, is we're, that's what we're going to see for a little while.
01:06:01
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:06:01
Speaker
I had a pull up bond.
01:06:03
Speaker
I just, okay.
01:06:04
Speaker
So what is bond selling for?
01:06:05
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:06
Speaker
There's there's seven on the, there's seven on the market right now.
01:06:11
Speaker
5600 for premium if you for no this is a pro for some odd reason oh they must not produce premiums yet because there's not even a premium slot on uh no there's a top 100 there's a premium like well i know there's a premium what but if you want to if you want dr no pro 5600 yeah i was looking it up via guess okay we're at on the top 100 bond set uh 99
01:06:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's just... Bond should have been so much better.
01:06:44
Speaker
I'm sorry, it really should have been.
01:06:45
Speaker
Okay, there is a Bond premium for $7,800.
01:06:50
Speaker
That's insane for a brand.
01:06:53
Speaker
That game's been out not even a year yet.
01:06:54
Speaker
Yeah, and that's sad.
01:06:58
Speaker
So... Well, okay, so what about Bond 60?
01:07:03
Speaker
What's that going for?
01:07:04
Speaker
Because I know that's dropped a little bit.
01:07:08
Speaker
That's a good question.
01:07:10
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:11
Speaker
Bond 60, pulling it up.
01:07:15
Speaker
While you're looking that up though, I just, that's crazy to me that, I mean, 5,600 for James Bond pro.
01:07:25
Speaker
Seriously, if you're looking for a Bond pro, this is the way to go.
01:07:29
Speaker
Ellie's are still setting.
01:07:31
Speaker
You can, they've got eight ads on here, but bond says there's around, there's currently around 17, 17, 18,000.
01:07:38
Speaker
And that's where you're going.
01:07:42
Speaker
And like I said, some of these, there is a total flood of the market, right?
01:07:46
Speaker
There is a, like the turtles premium.
01:07:49
Speaker
I'm pretty for sure.
01:07:50
Speaker
Let's see.
01:07:51
Speaker
Oh, I guess there was only seven ads.
01:07:53
Speaker
There is one may was Avengers.
01:07:55
Speaker
There's like 21 of them sitting on the market and you can go into, you can go into pin side and see how many games are sitting there.
01:08:04
Speaker
These games, um,
01:08:05
Speaker
I think that's, like you said, Econ 101.
01:08:07
Speaker
We're starting to see the market catch up.
01:08:11
Speaker
And so...
01:08:13
Speaker
The collection is not in value as where it was, but I think you're still, I think people are going to be a lot more choosy now when they go to get their new games.
01:08:22
Speaker
They are not going to just buy sight unseen.
01:08:24
Speaker
I mean, I can guarantee that because we're seeing a lot of that drop off.
01:08:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:30
Speaker
Like I said, Avengers, there's 21 of them on the market right now for premiums.
01:08:35
Speaker
And there's some, there's some pretty nice ones.
01:08:36
Speaker
I mean, there's one for 7,300 on here tricked out.
01:08:38
Speaker
I mean,
01:08:40
Speaker
is what it is guys and gals um so yeah that's that's where we're heading uh new in box it's probably still staying strong but these market is definitely coming down if we're going into a buyer's market if you guys are looking for that pinball machine you want use might be the way to go you're still not going to get a crazy
01:09:03
Speaker
a crazy deal unless someone just trying to unload their, uh, unload their stuff.
01:09:08
Speaker
Because the bottom line is once the prices drop a certain amount, people's like, Oh, I'd just rather keep the game.
01:09:14
Speaker
But, um, I would say a safe value is to say, if you can get it between, um,
01:09:24
Speaker
Okay, we're taking shipping out of the equation.
01:09:27
Speaker
But if you can get it for $1,000 to $1,500 below what MSRP is, then I think that's a decent deal.
01:09:33
Speaker
If you're below $1,500, then wow, you're certainly trending into a great deal, especially if it's a home use only.
01:09:43
Speaker
But that's really where the market should always be.
01:09:49
Speaker
Well, really, a 10% to 20% decrease from new in-box isn't terrible.
01:09:55
Speaker
I mean, new cars, you definitely take a bigger hit, at least 30% or more the second you drive it off the lot.
01:10:03
Speaker
And title, like I said, title's going to make a difference.
01:10:06
Speaker
Rarity is going to make a difference.
01:10:08
Speaker
So you're going to start seeing some more Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness flowing back up to the top price-wise and stuff like that.
01:10:16
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:18
Speaker
I think that pretty much does it as far as your used market.
01:10:21
Speaker
I mean, there's your market trends, people.
01:10:24
Speaker
If you want those used games, you can go out and get them.
01:10:27
Speaker
Uh, one other, I want to do one more shout out before we shut this down.
01:10:30
Speaker
Don's pinball podcast.
01:10:31
Speaker
If you haven't checked this out yet is like a 30 minute stream of the subconscious, uh, Don by himself, just talking at you about current topics and just opinions and shouting out locations.
01:10:45
Speaker
It's, it's very well done.
01:10:47
Speaker
I want to say it's, it's very well produced.
01:10:49
Speaker
I would say that we're more of a raw podcast.
01:10:52
Speaker
Uh, well,
01:10:54
Speaker
where he's more, we're more of a conversation podcast and we tend to lean heavily on interviews so that, and that's where our angle is.
01:11:02
Speaker
This is just a, a new fan, which is fun to get someone who is a new exposed to the world of pinball and that, that excitement that you get when you first start a new hobby, it's, you can definitely feel it with him.
01:11:17
Speaker
So go check it out.
01:11:19
Speaker
I actually send him a quick message.
01:11:20
Speaker
I was like,
01:11:21
Speaker
Hey, good for you.
01:11:22
Speaker
Like doing a, a solo podcast for 30 minutes.
01:11:25
Speaker
That's way more effort than I'm willing to do.
01:11:28
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:29
Speaker
So it's good.
01:11:32
Speaker
He's, he's a lot more positive on some things that I feel like we've been pretty.
01:11:35
Speaker
He's also family friendly too.
01:11:35
Speaker
So if you're looking for another, another podcast that you can listen with the kids.
01:11:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:41
Speaker
One that's not family friendly that both these podcasts have cited us as part of their inspiration, which I feel shocked that anyone listens to us and be like, I'm listening to Lizard Kid and I should do that too.
01:11:54
Speaker
But Pinball Party, Jason from Pinball Party, it's awesome.
01:11:57
Speaker
And he is definitely not family friendly at all.
01:12:00
Speaker
The beautiful part of this is like movies.
01:12:03
Speaker
You're going to find movies that fit for every demographic.
01:12:05
Speaker
So good for you, right?
01:12:06
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:07
Speaker
And we, but his show is really good too.
01:12:08
Speaker
It's highly produced as well.
01:12:09
Speaker
We are on YouTube.
01:12:11
Speaker
If you're, if you're super bored and want to look at two extremely sexy dudes talking into microphones, definitely you can check out our YouTube link.
01:12:21
Speaker
But if you have any questions, please reach out.
01:12:24
Speaker
Let us know your thoughts.
01:12:25
Speaker
If you have any hot takes that, or if you just want to let us know that we're way off on some of our takes, then we always want to hear the feedback.
01:12:33
Speaker
So.
01:12:34
Speaker
Definitely.
01:12:35
Speaker
So if you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid, pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:12:40
Speaker
You can get ahold of us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, YouTube, all at loser kid pinball.
01:12:47
Speaker
And if you want that sweet, sweet swag is silver ball, swag.com slash loser kid.
01:12:52
Speaker
Uh, we do this every couple of weeks, give or take.
01:12:56
Speaker
And, uh, I don't know anything else.
01:12:58
Speaker
Scott, there's the topic you want us to cover.
01:13:00
Speaker
Shoot us a message.
01:13:02
Speaker
Definitely.
01:13:02
Speaker
I know we've got a couple of interviews coming up like we always do, but it's nice just to stop and smell the roses and shoot the pinball breeze occasionally.
01:13:12
Speaker
All right.
01:13:13
Speaker
Y'all take care.
01:13:53
Speaker
Shut up and sit down.