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Pedretti Leaks, Jersey Jack Teases, Stern Reveals! | Talking Transformers, Sonic and TotAN
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Josh and Scott are sitting down to catch up on the industry news and shed some insight to everything that is happening at the moment.
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Transcript
Introduction and Pinball Hobby News
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I am Josh Roop. With me, my co-captain. Scott Larson. And Scott, it's just me and you hanging out today. It's kind of just us. Kind of random.
00:00:18
Speaker
You can't always just have guests on because at some point we need to catch up with pinball and people want to know about what's going on with the hobby, what's going on with each of the manufacturers. And so this is a good episode for us to really just talk about, hey, this is what's going on and keep you up to date.
Pinball Titles and Enthusiast Connections
00:00:34
Speaker
definitely so we can talk about transformers the somewhat announced sonic because we saw steve richie's crazy hair and then tells the arabian nights do you want any of these games where you going to be getting them from yeah call zach and nicole mini at flipping out pinball they can help you with all things pinball including used and new so Reach out to them. And if you are interested in some LE, get on the interested list. Even if it's not announced, they can at least say, hey, if you're interested in a title, they can put you on that.
00:01:04
Speaker
Definitely. Okay. First one we talked about. So i we already kind of alluded to this, right?
Transformers Media Day and Contributions
00:01:09
Speaker
Like Stern came out with Transformers. You and I did not go to the media day. Um, I, okay. But so yes, we didn't go to the, to the reveal day for the media. Um, but we were very lucky in that Stern, uh, was able to accommodate us that, um, and Elliot were able to come on our show, talk, check out our last episode. We were able to ask on, you know, very short notice. We were able to get some information and to know a lot more about transformers.
00:01:38
Speaker
When I loved it because like ah like, you know, Elizabeth is just excited. Like she she was glowing over this. Because it's her first time on lead. And she's killing it. Like seriously, some of the most memorable modes in games. Like in Jaws, Scars, you know, the the shark.
00:01:56
Speaker
Shark is broken. Shark is broken. Like just there's so many cool things that she's brought to pinball. And i think she understands that balance of...
00:02:07
Speaker
moments but with gameplay and flow and just what people want to play when they're playing in a game you definitely want this type of excitement when you're getting into pinball because you really should have that hunger when you're getting your shot to be able to say this is what i can do in pinball and being able to show, Hey, this is how I really want to take things and do, do my take on
Challenges and Interests in Pinball Licensing
00:02:32
Speaker
it. I also think Elliot's doing yeah a good job. He, it was, I would say it was a little challenging. John wick was a challenging license for many reasons. And so I'm really glad that he was able to get a second, a second shot. And I'm, I'm interested in playing this. I still have not played one on location yet. Uh, but, I think he does is getting one here soon or or one of our local things. So, I am planning on going up there and and taking a look at it. But Josh, there's lots of, lots of questions about this. So why don't you give me the rundown of the things that you, you took were huge positives and then questions that people are talking about.
00:03:11
Speaker
I think like, we'll obviously get to Optimus Prime, right? and And we'll talk about it here in a second, but can we, like you said, I want to fire on the right cylinders with the pros first.
00:03:21
Speaker
I think the Megatron cannon is very cool. I know that they're trying to do some different stuff. um Like they said on our show, like they were a little concerned with shooting it directly at the player because of like automatic drains and stuff like that.
00:03:34
Speaker
um I really like the sound wave. I know it's just a ball lock, but it's cool. like It's still cool. It's way cool. I think... Once people get their hands on this and start playing the code, it really is going to come into its own and people are going to love it more.
00:03:52
Speaker
So that's, I don't know if it were me, like I felt like this was more like no, so no slight to, um, to Borg, but like I was jealous over this because I felt like this is what turtles should have been. I felt like turtles,
00:04:10
Speaker
was good. Don't get me wrong. was good. But I felt like this was like a dedicated, like they really sunk their teeth into the material and was able to translate that into pinball.
Game Difficulty: Accessibility vs. Challenge
00:04:19
Speaker
What do you think, Scott? Turtles, ah the challenge with turtles is it was a little mismatch and I totally understand. There's a little bit of scar tissue because he put Munsters out, which was a a fan layout. It was accessible.
00:04:34
Speaker
and approachable for entry level players and people criticized him for making a baby game. um and And unfortunately it's trying to find that balance of, hey, we want to make sure it's challenging for for great players, but it's also accessible for for new players.
00:04:52
Speaker
Threading that needle, Turtles, I felt, was more on the difficult side. The shots were, they were definitely elite level shots. A little mismatch maybe on the difficulty of the game versus the theme.
00:05:06
Speaker
But, ah hey, you know what? This is how it is now with ah with Star Wars. The shots are ah a little a little more predictable, a little more ah fan ah fan layout. But you also have Rayman on the code there, too.
00:05:20
Speaker
So you you actually have a surprisingly great ah code package with Star Wars. I think this one has the potential, too, with Star Wars.
00:05:31
Speaker
with the way the Transformers is interacting with this. And they talked about it with, it's mainly focusing on the first two seasons. So if if you are OG, if you want to go and look at the first two seasons of the cartoon, you can see exactly which elements they're pulling from that, which is good.
00:05:49
Speaker
now Well, they even brought back Hot Rod, though, which was the guy that they introduced to take over Optimus Prime's spot in the movie. Yeah. Okay. I will say i okay I did not grow up with any money, so I don't even think my parents took me to this movie. i I actually never had a Transformer of my own. I would go to my friend's house and play with their Transformers, but I was definitely in the wheelhouse.
00:06:13
Speaker
So, and I actually did look up, by the way, if you want to get your, your, ah your generation one sound wave, you can, and you can get them on eBay. And I did look there about, about 80 bucks or so. And then you can also get all the cassettes with all the different animals that he would shoot out. So I thought that was a really cool option.
00:06:31
Speaker
That is cool. But okay, so elephant in the room, and this is is this shark shark no eat ball? Is this like, okay, I understand the criticism.
00:06:43
Speaker
um People saying, hey, it's Transformers, but it doesn't transform anything. Okay. What happens? what reasonable expectation can people have? Cause last time I checked when Gomez did transformers, they didn't transform there either. either So why, why is this a big deal?
00:07:02
Speaker
Why do you think, do you think it's a legitimate criticism? Do you think it's overblown? What what are your thoughts? I mean, at least on the Gomez one, you could hit Optimus Prime in the crotch. Ouch.
00:07:15
Speaker
um I can see it both ways. I guess it really comes down to, When you play pinball, what are you playing pinball for? Is it watching mechs do their job inside of games? Is it flow? Is it code? Is it the experience itself? Like, You could argue that like Guns N' Roses isn't like the best playing game, but it is definitely probably one the best experiences in the last five years. And it's literally like a concert under the class, right? um
00:07:46
Speaker
For me personally, like I've really done some introspection, right? Like for me personally, i prefer game flow code because here's the thing. Once I get
Preferences in Pinball Game Design
00:07:57
Speaker
into my collection,
00:07:58
Speaker
The mech is really cool, but it loses its shine and luster after 10, 20 plays. And I really want to explore the code more than I do want to see the mech do the thing, right?
00:08:12
Speaker
um i just, I feel like overblown, but I can also see it from the perspective like, this was your dream theme and you've got this preconceived notion of like things need to transform in a Transformers game.
00:08:26
Speaker
I can see how it falls short. For me, no, not big deal. Okay. um i would I'm going to ask a few questions. If I told you, hey, Transformers is coming out and they make cool mechs in a pinball machine, I think it's reasonable to say, okay, so is it going to do the thing, right?
00:08:47
Speaker
There are a couple challenges though. What would a reasonable mechanism transformation actually look like?
00:08:57
Speaker
So I don't know. Well, and that now that you're asking this too, are there games that have had transforming max
00:09:07
Speaker
Do you count the skyscraper from Godzilla? Okay. So so that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking of things that they're really cool actually. Okay. And I, I'm going to push back a little bit on the, I, the mechanism isn't a big deal. I think it is actually, if you look at medieval madness, okay.
00:09:27
Speaker
If medieval madness did not have the castle, it would not be the game it is. True. It wouldn't, but it's one small moment that is still cool to see Godzilla with the, with the building up and down.
00:09:43
Speaker
It's cool. And it's cool that it it moves up and down and changes the ball path. Also acting as the ball lock. And when you start Godzilla multi-ball, it comes down and spits them from the tower.
00:09:57
Speaker
That's a cool effect. Okay. yeah I don't think it's exactly the same if you don't have that. However, okay, so you're looking at the mechanism.
00:10:07
Speaker
what does What is the fancy thing that the Godzilla tower actually does? just It moves up and down. Right. But it does change ball paths depending on the level. Okay.
00:10:19
Speaker
But I'm just saying from a mechanical standpoint, it does one thing. It goes up and down. Yeah. Okay. And if you really look at medieval madness, the castle, all it's doing is it has, ah the three pill, three of the four, uh, castle, um,
00:10:37
Speaker
um know what would you say? The the towers? Pillars, yeah, towers. Yeah, the towers. They're basically kind of on a spring, and so it relaxes, and the and the towers shake that way. Yeah. Okay?
00:10:47
Speaker
So, amazing. you also have the drawbridge and the gate, too. You would, but that that goes but that goes up and down. But imagine for you to have that one moment. the The most you could possibly expect, which I believe was the mechanism, is to have Optimus stand up and put his arms out like a chicken wing.
00:11:07
Speaker
Okay? Yeah, true. That's kind of the most you could possibly reasonably expect from a mechanical wonder in a pinball machine. Then you also have on top of that, okay, how durable is this?
00:11:20
Speaker
So if he, okay, are we just going to have Optimus stand up? Is that worth it? I don't know. If his arms move out, are his arms vulnerable to damage? I don't know.
00:11:34
Speaker
And then you have other issues. Once you have any sort of extra movement in there, there's a there you you have a reliability issue.
00:11:44
Speaker
Well, and that's the other thing too. is like There's also them in this argument of like it starts down, but as soon as you press start, as it's loading the ball into the the launcher into the shooter lane, he stands up and says, you know Autobots roll out.
00:11:58
Speaker
But it becomes an ah ROI situation then too. The other angle that a lot of people haven't talked about this, um what if it was a financial decision? Because here's the thing. I think Godzilla is really, really great. But what other Sterns in the Spike 2 era have had similar mechs?
00:12:18
Speaker
It's pretty, let's talk about real quick. He got the skyscraper up and down, which is a pretty big mech, right? It's big mech. Yeah, it is huge. It's actually like a shoebox size almost. You've got the turntable in front of Mechagodzilla. So you get the stand-ups, and then it flips, and you get a spinner on that. Plus, Mechagodzilla himself grabs the ball and holds onto it with his stomach. The tummy tuck. Yeah.
00:12:42
Speaker
You've got the breaking bridge that drops the ball. Also, with the magnet that grabs the ball, with the double spinners, I mean, the game's pretty loaded, and I can't think of another Stern that hits on the same level as Godzilla when it comes to mechs. And I think they've even said um that like Godzilla was like over budget for what it was supposed to be. Probably was. Do you think that was a detriment? Because now everything's being compared to Godzilla, but...
00:13:13
Speaker
Godzilla's one of the best-selling games, if not the best-selling game in the last 40 years. It probably will be. At least it's on on track to a beat Adam's family. Yes.
00:13:24
Speaker
um Okay, that's actually a good question. I hadn't really thought about it. So so I kind of went long-winded, sorry. So I guess my two questions, did financials stand in and say, hey, this is over budget? Or two, they came and said, hey, you have too many cool mechs in this, and we are already we're already paying for it with Godzilla. You need to pull something out. Okay.
00:13:42
Speaker
um You know, I, okay, that is a possibility. Given that we know when we went to the to the John Wick reveal, yes we had George Gomez came in and he he showed us this giant spreadsheet. So for people who think that the development of of games is not well thought out, it is ridiculously well executed and planned.
00:14:09
Speaker
And so it takes roughly about a year and a half Now I would think, and now we know, we know historically designers would put extra stuff in games such as we'll throw drop targets in.
00:14:25
Speaker
Eventually they look at it and say, Hey, you're over your bill of material. And so they're like, okay, make those standups. Okay. But I would be surprised if you look at some of the pictures that you can see optimus prime in what looks like a squatted position in the promotional material that they probably shot with in the last two months i would be shocked if they pulled it out that late in the game when they were already doing promotional things is it possible sure and they're not going to tell us
00:15:02
Speaker
I would be surprised if that were it. I think the driving force would definitely be reliability. And I don't disagree with you. I think, right, it's a bunch of variables, right? But it's made me look from a different angle of like, I feel like looking at the release of ah Transformers, right?
00:15:20
Speaker
And with the whole Optimus Prime No Transform, which I guess is the new Shark eat No Eat Ball. Shark No Eat Ball, yeah. Optimus No Transform. um we I feel bad for these designers because I feel like a lot of this is shouldered on them. of like I saw a lot of like, Elliot took this out. How could he? And I saw a lot of like, Stern, how could they do this to us? And I'm just like, i just don't, i don't know, maybe people...
00:15:47
Speaker
don't run businesses. No, they they don't. Obviously, Josh, because they they want the same thing, right? They want to buy a new game for significantly under MSRP and then they want to resell it for over MSRP. Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker
So they want to buy new games cheap and sell used games expensive. Well, and they keep comparing people keep comparing Stern to Spooky and to Barrels of Fun, which I get. They're both pinball machines, right?
00:16:15
Speaker
But do you that you fault Bugatti because they're not doing the same things that Ford is doing? Or do you get upset when f Ford isn't mass-producing Bugattis? You know what i'm saying? and i'm not Okay, i would say i agree with you.
00:16:28
Speaker
i wouldn't say that that the I wouldn't say the analysis is necessarily that a small poot boutique company is higher end because I don't, I don't think they're producing higher end, yeah higher end products, but you are right. When you're talking economies of scale, yeah you cannot expect a small company that makes a thousand games in a year to compete with a company that makes probably 35,000 games a year. Yeah.
00:16:55
Speaker
games a year Yeah. Okay. But look look at Who's talking about that Megatron cannon is really cool. and It really is cool. I am the first one to say if you're focused on the Transformer deficit, then you are missing one of the coolest mechanisms that Elliot designed.
00:17:19
Speaker
That is a really cool, it's basically taking the Jurassic Park ah dinosaur, the moving dinosaur thing and adding a cannon to it. It's it's like it's like a Jurassic Park dinosaur had a love baby with Dungeons and Dragons dragon and they spit out Megatron's cannon.
00:17:41
Speaker
Yeah, i I can see where you're coming from. ah It is a really cool mech. Like it still is. I think the the cannon. Granted, we can see where it goes and whatnot. And some people are like, well, shoots a ball onto into a ramp. It's like.
00:17:56
Speaker
But there's so much potential there. It's really, really cool. I don't feel like outside of a canon that you control like on T2 or an ACDC, this is something different. This is interactive to the point of like, this is almost like Rudy from Funhaus like messing with you.
00:18:13
Speaker
you don know what I'm saying? Like it just, there's there's an extra level there that I don't feel like we're... accepting uh or or acknowledging and i think you're right like it's really really cool you got to focus on the cool mech you got yeah which is a really cool mech i'll if i had a choice between that and a transformer i'll take the mech yeah i agree but what are your overall thoughts of transformers okay it it looks for i they did the right thing in going with size appropriate sculpts
00:18:45
Speaker
So the sculpts are actually pretty close to what the, what the, the toys were. Yeah. And as opposed to putting like a bunch of tiny, ah tiny ones around.
00:18:58
Speaker
um If you're going to, if you're going to put a critical eye, okay. The dinosaur sculpt it's grim lock, right? I'm getting that for correct. I think so. grimlock Yeah. Okay. He, he, okay he it could have been a little better, but i mean, that's, I'm come on. That's ticky tack, right? Yeah.
00:19:17
Speaker
Like you could say the same thing about Godzilla. Godzilla is back here and he has, i would say an underwhelming Godzilla sculpt. And then they threw it on the, on the topper again. the exact same skull can we just all agree that the decepticons won versus the auto pots in this game between the grim lock and like and the chicken wing optimus prime yeah megatron and prime yeah yeah they look so much better like yeah like sand wave looks really really cool okay because the decepticons always looked cooler than the autobots like i don't care if i can turn into a car i'm gonna fly i'm a i'm a jet okay thank you
00:19:53
Speaker
it Was it Bruce and Ron of Slam Tilt that sent us the picture of that like legit gun? I'm like, what are you doing with a gun? And he's like, this is what Megatron used to transform to in the 80s. It looks like serious gun. Yeah, it was a sniper rifle. Yeah. No, I was totally jealous of that. Yeah. go Okay. So I listened to i listen to Slam Tilt. I didn't actually see. what Did you watch the video of it?
00:20:16
Speaker
I didn't. but Oh, yeah. but i'm I'm just wondering, like, if... Because it did... i don't remember it being, like, super long. I think it was more of, like, a handheld one with a scope on it. Yeah. Because, yeah, that that would be a ridiculously big.
00:20:32
Speaker
But it was it was a cool mech. I mean, every kid wanted the Megatron one. looked cool. it This mech was... don't know... As a toy, i now know why.
00:20:44
Speaker
wondering if this is the toy that forced guns in like the 90s and stuff to have the orange tip. like Okay, so it wasn't that one. But kay I will say when I bought, um I went and bought a whole bunch of Nintendo Entertainment System games about 20 years ago. yeah And I i bought like a refurbished system. And I got the old school system that slides in horizontally, which is a stupid design. But I got it because that's what I grew up with. And I went out of my way to buy the original gun that was gray.
00:21:14
Speaker
And after the law changed, they had to change the gun to the gray and red. i have the orange one. Yeah. So you, so you, yeah, that you had orange slash red. It looked orange to me, but yeah. So you have the new one. I specifically went out of my way to buy the old one because that's the one I grew up with.
00:21:31
Speaker
See, and I grew up with the orange. I didn't know there was any different because it came with it came with Duck Hunt and Mario. Yep. It was bundled in the NES package. It does. And then in later iterations, it came with like World Runner or something. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:21:44
Speaker
That was a dumb game. But overall, I think Transformer is is great. Oh, well, on Optimus Prime. yeah Yeah. Okay. The code's good.
00:21:55
Speaker
The code's good. The code's farther along than a lot of codes at this point. um it It does benefit from having Hasbro as the licensor because we know that we know that there's a lot of companies, especially the bigger licenses. People want the bigger licenses. You have to realize it takes a lot longer to get through approvals. I mean, just look at the R2D2 topper, right?
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah. Like how long did it take for that to get approved? And James Bond, we know is a licensing challenging nightmare. Yeah. Turned out to be a really good game, but you have to wait for it. So we're going through the same thing with Pokemon.
00:22:32
Speaker
Like you have to wait for license or approval. Yeah.
Future Pinball Licenses Discussion
00:22:35
Speaker
I think Hasbro was really, really easy to work with on this. I think it's because Dungeons and Dragons turned out so well that they were just like, yeah.
00:22:42
Speaker
So that begs the other question too, if Hasbro has done Dungeons and Dragons and now Transformers, what else are they going to throw onto the table if if they are an option for more pinball in the future? That's actually a good question. I haven't researched this. Have you researched whatever major things, what other major licenses Hasbro has?
00:23:01
Speaker
I did. One of them I think was My Little Pony. I'm not sure that'll be a big seller with the Dad Rock crowd, but hey, you know you can branch out.
00:23:12
Speaker
You know the loaf hanging fruit here that everyone wants, right? G.I. Joe. Yeah, G.I. Joe. G.I. Joe. You know what? Maybe. Okay, I'm looking at all the, if they're really going to tap into the nostalgia of the 80s.
00:23:26
Speaker
He-Man could be an option. Yeah. Thundercats was kind of a ah B-roll He-Man. There's a couple of them. I know there's a couple out there, people like G.I. i Joe. And it doesn't help that when you got you think G.I. Joe would be a big seller though? I'm curious.
00:23:40
Speaker
ah I think it'd be on the same plane as Transformers. I see. i would say at least sell out and then premiums and pros have to prove themselves. But I would say Transformers is still a better title. I would, I would even say masters of the universe would be a bigger title, but maybe it's on how this movie goes. Yeah. Maybe it's on. That's true. Maybe it's on the same level as GI Joe, I guess.
00:24:05
Speaker
Maybe. Yeah. Alrighty. Let's talking about transformers. Okay. Speaking of was another company that released an announcement the same day as transformers. Okay.
00:24:16
Speaker
Of don't spend your money. Oh, poor Jack. So Jersey Jack did like a, what is that called? A shadow photo with like a blue, like a teaser photo. Yeah. um Yeah.
00:24:30
Speaker
what it say don't it seriously said like don't blink or you'll miss it and so and it's steve richie obviously yeah the rumor is he looks possessed kind of he's like backlit and so obviously in june so we're in june now and um i doubt we're gonna see it this week sonic the hedgehog at least that's what the rumor is And my understanding too is, is, it is the video games, not the movies.
00:24:56
Speaker
So, so, okay. Let's talk about Sonic as a license then. Okay. sure So we, um, there are lots of iterations of Sonic. So if you're old enough to remember the early days of the console wars, so Sonic was the, it was basically Sega's answer to Mario, right?
00:25:17
Speaker
So you had a Nintendo, which is an eight bit system, which was even better than the four bit system. There were a lot of great things they did. And then they came out with the Genesis, which was 16 bit.
00:25:29
Speaker
And it did take up the, the graphics level. Now I'm sure that Sega spent a ton of money on marketing and making this thing look really cool, which it really did. it,
00:25:41
Speaker
It definitely, if you if you compare the original Sonic the Hedgehog game to like the Super Mario Brothers, it it's no question that the the Sonic the Hedgehog looks really cool.
00:25:54
Speaker
okay um Didn't really sustain long term. There were a few few games and there was even a Sonic Spinball. Then kind of went underground for a while. Sega kind of disappeared as a big player in the console wars.
00:26:08
Speaker
came back as the movies, the movie, the I thought the first movie was really good. The second movie was okay. And I never really saw the other ones. Um, but if you were to choose a, a version that you would focus on for a pinball machine, would you go with the movies or would you prefer the video game?
00:26:30
Speaker
Me personally, I grew up on the game. It's my good sir. i I, would. So Sonic, like, It's funny because like my friends had the Super Nintendo. yeah So my mom was like, I'm buying you the Genesis because why i have the games? Why have games you can borrow? Yeah, yeah exactly. i guess. I don't know. But I had all the Sonic the Hedgehog games. And they were one after another after another, right? So like Sonic in 91... You've got Sonic 2 92, 3 Sonic CD in ninety three sonic three and 93, Sonic 3 94, Sonic and Knuckles and 94 again.
00:27:03
Speaker
i mean, and then they started to space out and then yeah because it went from like Sega Genesis and then the Dreamcast dropped, but it didn't do super well. Dreamcast lost out to Sony, to PlayStation. Yeah, which is sad, but I guess that is what it is. Business, right? But then they started spacing out and then the weird part is like these games started getting away from what I felt Sonic was. Yeah.
00:27:27
Speaker
But i mean, I'm still more of the old school platformer where you're running as fast as you can. Right. But you're, you know what I'm saying? You're basically a blue pinball machine. ah You're a pinball, like you're a blue pinball flying through.
00:27:43
Speaker
Okay. So i I think we can agree that spin ball is not in this list and it would be within that first five years. Spin ball is, I mean, I, I said that, uh, when didn't, didn't I sound like the, the, you did, that you did send me spin ball and I grew up on that one too. Like I love spin ball. I mean, that's part where my pinball obsession came from. Okay. My pinball obsession started on Sesame street when they had the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Yes. Yeah. Cause it was a pinball. I was like, that is super cool.
00:28:10
Speaker
Um, Okay, so I think we can agree that the that the game is the better version, right? And there's i there's yeah there's like a cartoon of that too. He even showed up in Wreck-It Ralph. and and yeah ah You know what's wild? Hold You know what's wild?
00:28:25
Speaker
Did you know there was actually two sonic ah two Sonic shows that released at the same time that was airing at the exact same time, but one was more Looney Tunes ask and goofy like that while the other one was more nitty and gritty.
00:28:40
Speaker
I just I find it. Sorry. I know a lot about Sonic history because my my brother in law loves Sonic like absolutely loves it. I didn't realize this, but it was pointed out in the last couple of years. Sonic is a direct rip off of Dragon Ball Z.
00:28:55
Speaker
Okay, so I was right. like he He has the has like the hair thing. and that yeah Yeah, he goes supersonic. He goes golden and then his hair. then yeah Yeah, and then he got the Chaos Emeralds. and like Even the names of some of the characters cross with what's going on with Dragon Ball Z. and Hey, yeah didn't Masters of the Universe also come out with two competing ones? One was was like a Kevin Smith one and there was like another one like in the last two years.
00:29:22
Speaker
I don't know. I came interested. Now, one thing that I think is reasonable to ask is it going to have a loop to loop? I know. Because that's okay. If you, if you're closing your eyes and imagining Sonic, you are imagine him going screaming fast. The, the graphics are flying by fast and he does that loop to loop thing and goes around there.
00:29:45
Speaker
Also the pop bumpers are those red blue star, you know how like in the game um that you bounce off those, that's got to be in there as well. Yeah. and that's That's an easy, that's a pop bumper cover. Sure. what i'm saying?
00:29:58
Speaker
Yeah. What else? What else is from Sonic? Rings all over the place. Yeah. Obviously the spinner, because like in the game, when you go past a checkpoint, the top of it spins like a spinner. Yeah. It'd be cool if that was, here's here is the problem with like when we find out about a game, right? Like then we start speculating on what it should be. Yeah, we have no idea. So Sonic's coming out, at least. Yes. That's the thing.
00:30:20
Speaker
One thing we can talk about okay has been announced, but hasn't really shown anything and not much has happened since. yeah Tales of the Arabian Nights was officially announced May 12th. So we're almost at a month now. Yeah.
00:30:33
Speaker
But nothing else has happened. Like what's going on there?
Quality Concerns in Remakes
00:30:37
Speaker
I don't really understand Pendretti's marketing. ah I thought Funhouse was a good, um was a good example of a remake that was not done by CGC.
00:30:47
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Um, there were definitely some things that I thought were less, excuse me, um, that were, um, that could have been done better. and it was their first, uh, their, their first exposure to the remakes.
00:31:04
Speaker
Um, I don't think that remakes, uh, like the extra, like the, the dark fun house. Oh, the Brian Allen edition.
00:31:14
Speaker
Well, or Rudy's nightmare 2.0. Yeah. and so like, I didn't feel that that was ah that was a market that needed to be tapped. I guess I'll put it that way.
00:31:27
Speaker
um But I'm wondering about their approach because i i do I really do like Tales of the Arabian Nights. I'm interested in buying the game. I want to buy the game. I want to put it in my collection because I love, I like having options for people to have some straightforward games when they come down to my game, the game room.
00:31:50
Speaker
Yeah. It's important for me to not overwhelm people with, with a whole bunch of rules and be able to say, okay, you should have a fun entry level game. And I feel that hits that hits that window.
00:32:02
Speaker
Now, are they going to have good quality? That's a good question. Are they going to be reliable? Because reliability is huge to me. Yes. So that especially because I don't, I don't have the kind of time to troubleshoot a game.
00:32:18
Speaker
And so, and this is, you know, Alien had issues right out the game. This is the highway Alien. yeah So there were like, there was like a a fan group who wanted to fix and keep these games alive. I don't have that kind of effort to be able to do that. So I'm hoping that this is a huge hit.
00:32:36
Speaker
Um, I'm hoping that they stick with an option that gives me the original music, the original call outs, the original code and the original artwork.
00:32:48
Speaker
Yes. Because that's where a Chicago gaming company did an excellent job. Now there were ways that they made it, they modernized it with the bet with the, um, with, you know, the, um,
00:33:02
Speaker
The DMD, but they've modernized it so it looks better. ah that That definitely is a huge deal. There are ways you can modernize something while keeping it consistent with what it was originally.
00:33:14
Speaker
yeah So I want to see that come out. However, Josh, i um I don't understand them. What company... teases something. And then a month later, we still have no idea about where can you buy it?
00:33:26
Speaker
How much does it cost? What features are there? Are there two options out there? What are you getting for your money? Who can you contact for this stuff? It seems confusing that they don't have a plan, a discernible plan for marketing this product, which I think is necessary when you are a startup type company, you're a small company who relies on money to keep going.
00:33:50
Speaker
And if you make a big, big misstep, then people are going to be concerned. Yeah. Um, one thing is though, like, so nap arcade did post a picture of, what I assume to be Brian Allen artwork.
00:34:03
Speaker
Uh, so I guess someone had went to planetary pinballs warehouse in Reno and someone had one of these unboxed right by it the, the garage door and he, whoever it was snapped a quick picture. It's, it's a teaser picture at the best. but You can definitely tell on the side of the cabinet that it is not the original artwork. So it almost has. close Is it close though? This is the challenge with the fun house. The fun house art was a little bit of a mix up of a lot of different themes yeah into the art. Now I, now my medieval madness actually has a Brian Allen art package on it.
00:34:44
Speaker
I have the, the back glass is the Brian Allen version of it. And I have the art blades in there. That's the Brian Allen version. So I'm not opposed to mixing things up. as long as it stays consistent with the theme.
00:34:56
Speaker
I agree. And I think there is room to modernize the art and still make it look good. It tells of the Arabian Nights art is nice, but it definitely feels dated, which is kind of weird to say. um But yeah, it almost felt like child's book from like the eighties kind of thing. You know saying? Storytime. Storytime. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that Mickey in the magic lamp was one of my favorite kids kids books and or did you ever get like like the mother goose series but it was like you know what i'm saying like it was multiple like little write red riding hood stuff like that but it was all you get what i'm saying yes um okay i i will say though i like the back glass um brian allen's back glass from medieval madness better than the original which is why i have it i also on monster bash i like his version better than the original yeah i'm a fan of the original
00:35:52
Speaker
yeah which will I will say though that that medieval madness does look good. Yeah. So, but no, I think overall, yeah, we're kind of still waiting. So give us more information. We want to play the game. We want to be able to buy the game. We want to be able to market the game and and figure out,
00:36:08
Speaker
things because i if there's one thing I'm a fan of is I'm fan of the remakes because it definitely comes from an era. There's a reason why people are still buying the Beatles white album.
00:36:19
Speaker
Yeah. There are way more complex albums out there that have been generated since then, but it's still a classic game. The one thing that we can talk about that they've announced, but they've trickled it out. And I think people forgotten about it is they have hired the CGC software and like development team.
00:36:37
Speaker
Like they've got ah like the quality that you know that comes to CGC is now working for Pedretti. So that must mean a CGC is no longer in the remake business. They're comfortable with what they've made and they're like, we're done.
00:36:51
Speaker
And the issues that like I own a fun house, I actually really love it. I think it's a really great game and my kids love it. My only complaint is the software sometimes does some weird glitchy things. Yeah.
00:37:02
Speaker
Like Rudy, and it's not anything that was like game hindering. It's just like, why is Rudy's mouth moving, but he's not saying anything. right And then it's like, it has a hard time layering. Cause the way that this one works is it's emulating the original code, but they're trying to,
00:37:18
Speaker
update and fix the code as well. So it was originally team pinball, which if you didn't see that, they like threw a fit and like did quite the little social media post. Yeah, well, we'll let them fight that on in yeah social media. We're not if you haven't seen it, go go check it out, I guess if that's it's your cup of tea. But my point being is like, I'm excited for a toe town because we're getting my game has been really, really nice. Like I've had just that one switch issue and that's it.
00:37:46
Speaker
And so like I I have no complaints. I do know people like I I will not discredit. I do know people that have messaged me directly that was like I had this and this and this and this.
00:37:59
Speaker
I get it like some sometimes you're going to get a lemon out of the box, which really sucks, especially when you're spending. this kind of money on a pinball machine, right? That's why it falls back on the company to make sure that the customer service is top notch, right?
00:38:13
Speaker
Because you're not going to get 100% perfect every time. So yeah that's why you buy through flipping out because that goes above and beyond. Well, especially with the whole haggis ah debacle.
00:38:24
Speaker
Yes. Okay, so that that is a huge plus that they got a lot of the people who worked on the CGC team. ah So I have the upgrade. I've been playing the upgrade a lot on Cactus Canyon.
00:38:38
Speaker
I am still amazed by what they were able to do with the upgrade to modernize the game. The game feels on par with with medieval madness and maybe even above when it comes to the different code options that it it has included in there. And there's always something you can do. it It's, I'm not saying it's Godzilla level, but in Godzilla, there are, if you start going down a path, you can keep going down that path.
00:39:06
Speaker
You don't have to say, okay, well that's, I need to always pull back and go to the main line with the, with the Lyman complete code. It's excellent. The, the dots that they did the program, it is great. The code looks like it's an updated version, but it also feels consistent with what they made in 1999. Okay.
00:39:32
Speaker
That team, i am confident that they can do something very similar for Tales Theater Abbey Knights. If they're able to make it a high quality, high reliable game with that presentation, they will have a hit on their hands.
00:39:48
Speaker
i'm I'm just concerned that I have not seen a reliable marketing push for this. which makes me wonder if they have a plan.
00:40:00
Speaker
I'm hoping they do. i said I don't see it. I think they do. But yeah, I mean, I guess that's, I agree with you. I think I'm excited for this and we'll see what happens.
00:40:12
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? um Not really much on the CGC front besides what we just kind of discussed. and I think they're going to be pretty much like and CGC with play mechanics. I think play mechanics going to be getting the licensing, and developing the games, and then CGC is just going to make it for it.
00:40:27
Speaker
Yeah. And especially with Halo, Halo is ah definitely a license that play mechanics um has dealt with before. Right. So, I mean, I'm hoping that those games are going to translate well.
00:40:41
Speaker
um It always feels like you're getting a a suboptimal version of something because it's it's a totally different feeling to play pinball versus playing video games.
00:40:54
Speaker
But hey, we've always asked, hey, Nintendo, please license your video games so we can play. yeah So if it's done well, then I i think it could be great. um Should have a grunt. A grunt with his head up in the way of the ramp.
00:41:08
Speaker
yeah And then when you hit the ball, it takes out his head and then confetti pops out and it does the birthday party. Yay! That would be interesting. You know what? why add While we're at it, why not why don't we have a Mortal Kombat pinball machine? That is true. It was originally Bally Midway. It's not uncommon to see those. yeah i is Steve Ritchie was one of the voices in Mortal Kombat.
00:41:31
Speaker
Yeah, he was Shao Kahn. Yeah. For at least the first one. Yeah. so I don't know. So CGC, not really much up to anything. Ooh, American Pinball. They are shipping Houdinis as we speak.
00:41:45
Speaker
Okay. um Does that not excite you? Do you not want a Houdini? Well, okay. I'm not... I'm not sure what American pinball is trying to do. And I, we would love to have them on the show because I want to talk to them and find out what their philosophy is.
00:42:00
Speaker
It seemed like they came out with a bang and they came out with Houdini, which the original one looked great. And then there was obviously a lot of issues. And so they rebooted it and they made a good game.
00:42:13
Speaker
It's a tight game and a difficult, difficult shooter. But yeah hey, it's Houdini, so it's like it shouldn't be super easy. So it it made sense.
00:42:24
Speaker
They seem to kind of stumble and just not figure out who they were or what their market was. Even in the second third iteration with completely new ownership and going a little bit back to the well and to do Houdini, that yeah I'm hoping there's at least enough demand that people want that.
00:42:46
Speaker
I know they're trying, I know they have so many supply ah parts for galactic tank force. And so they're going to try to figure out ways of cobbling those together to make a better package.
00:42:59
Speaker
I wish them well, I hope they can do it. Um, But I'm really wondering where they're going in the future. They also have dipped their toe into the remake market. So Josh, they announced Circus Voltaire. So this is a two-part question.
00:43:15
Speaker
um Are you interested in Circus Voltaire? One. Two, do you have confidence that American Pinball can make a good version of Circus Voltaire for you? Yes, I am definitely excited about a Circus Voltaire.
00:43:28
Speaker
It's kind of one of the first games I remember when I got into pinball. ah And it's just a really cool, unique game. um The rules are fun. the whole circus thing is kind of cool.
00:43:41
Speaker
i As far as American, though, I don't know... I guess I'd have to play their Houdini, the one that's that's going shipping right now. yeah Because here's the problem. is it's like Didn't they pretty much fire everyone?
00:43:54
Speaker
ah They may have kept the warehouse people. they Yeah, it it seems like a wholesale reboot. so Now, I will say... It's undetermined at this point in my book.
00:44:06
Speaker
Yeah, kind that's a good way to put it. Because I don't know. I'm hoping that they're able to transform this company and if they end up turning it into, hey, we're ah a manufacturing machine and we'll be able to to crank out these remakes and we're able to make them reliable we're able to make them a reasonable facsimile of what was produced in the 90s, then more power to them.
00:44:30
Speaker
And I really hope that that's what they end up turning out to be. Because there are there still are games from the 90s that you can tap into into making. So if they can figure out ways of being the manufacturing hub and making a good product, there will be a desire out there for it.
00:44:47
Speaker
um But they have to prove it to me first that they are able to make a good product. Well, my question is like, why Circus Voltaire?
00:44:58
Speaker
So the reason being is it's like, we know that Petretti has gotten multiple licenses. They kind of announced that like when they first revealed Funhouse, that you know, I think this is awesome. Just wait to see what else is to come. And it's a handful of licenses.
00:45:13
Speaker
Why pass up on Circus Voltaire? Because you already had Totem? Do you feel like that's right too many J-pop games? like I know that Circus Voltaire is different in the fact that the DMD is actually situated in the playfield. It's underneath the playfield, yeah. Sorry, it's underneath the glass. It's in the back of the playfield, yeah.
00:45:38
Speaker
Plus the back box is different than most ones because you have to have that ball. interactive Yes. Yes. So it's just, it's not as straightforward as what you would typically have with any other pinball machine.
00:45:49
Speaker
um My other concern is why, like why are all these companies making Bally Williams games? Like,
Saturation and Standards in Pinball Remakes
00:45:57
Speaker
is Rick just handing these licenses out to anyone that'll approach him? I mean, you've got Haggis who was doing,
00:46:05
Speaker
fathom and they did uh they never shipped well i guess they shipped one of why is it blanking why is my i can see the artwork it's all black and white the sea witch oh center centaur yes thank you centaur they did fathom we've got cgc who did medieval madness attack from mars you know we've got now majority making remakes we could Cardona is making 2.0 kits. Tim Pinball was making 2.0 kits. Americans now making Circus Voltaire.
00:46:38
Speaker
is this It seems to be like we're just handing them out to whoever. And and you could argue the quality is varying from each one.
00:46:48
Speaker
yeah is there not a set standard for these? like i just CGC set a pretty high bar, in my opinion, when they made those games. So they they took forever though. If CGC made them faster, i think CGC would have been the only company doing these.
00:47:05
Speaker
I think about how, okay, we're 10 years into the remakes and CGC made four of them in 10 years. I don't place it solely on their shoulders. though I think you have a slow company that also had but probably a combination, but I'm just saying, sir is slow. So as well as approval, I would also say though, when they started making medieval madness, there was a huge demand because we were just starting to get into the ma, the second golden age of pinball, which we're in right now. Yeah. Where great games are being made.
00:47:45
Speaker
But you know in the 2000s, was a wasteland. they there They only made like four or five games that I would consider owning today.
00:47:56
Speaker
get you. But now there are four or five games a year that I would consider buying. So now you're competing with a Godzilla. Now you're competing with a new Star Wars game. Now you're competing with Dune. Now you're competing yeah you're competing with harry Potter.
00:48:16
Speaker
And it it unless you really have a soft spot for the remake, I think the modern games are going to be a stiffer competition. And so you're really focusing on the nostalgia, the nostalgia buyer.
00:48:31
Speaker
I think so as well. And a lot of these games in the late, you know, after this spike of Adam's family and all that, they really started slowing down in quantity. And so I think there is room for these.
00:48:42
Speaker
um I just find it wild that like, I don't know. I feel bad picking on anyone and be like, this is crap. And this is fantastic. Okay. Um, the Alice in Wonderland kit that you buy for a thousand dollars. Um, nobody wants that.
00:49:00
Speaker
You shouldn't, uh, they sold like a million, like a million dollars worth of those. And like, the Kickstarter or whatever. I don't know. Okay. Yeah, but they like playfields are warping. Do you want me pull out the Tommy Boy quote about, well, I'll take a dump in a box and label it guaranteed. It's true, but did you see the Kong R Us video, B Kong's video?
00:49:20
Speaker
And he had he bought one of those Alices and the the middle of the playfield, because it's like a poly, it's like plastic. Yeah, isn't it warped? It's bubbled so bad that the ball, you can watch it go around the bubble. It's like Orbiter 1. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:34
Speaker
Okay, but my goodness okay I will point out though, having a high expectation for something that's $6,000 plus is not unreasonable.
00:49:46
Speaker
I agree. So if you're going to ask that much money from the average person, yes, there are, there are whale collectors out there who buy anything sight unseen. That's not most of your collectors.
00:49:59
Speaker
Most of your collectors have a limited amount of space and they have to look at their money wisely and say, how how can I afford the best machine for my money?
00:50:11
Speaker
i I really want, sorry, you got me now on the topic of this Alice in Wonderland. I want to know how many of those actually sold Because was it more viable for Ninja Turtles to go that route? Because the next one they've announced, the company that's making those, Wonderland Amusement or whatever, yeah their next game is Teenage Mutant Turtles like into the sewer or whatever it is, right?
00:50:34
Speaker
So how did they convince, i would assume Stern still had the license because they were still building them. Well, like how did I wonder how exclusive it is ah because there has to be carve outs for and whether or not it's a commercially viable game versus a, a home hobby project. mean, is someone really going if they really want turtles, are they going to pass up the Stern version and buy this,
00:51:02
Speaker
home kept version no they're not yeah but i would assume it's in the same realm of like you're not going to license ninja turtle toys to hasbro and then ninja turtle toys to playmates i don't know who the other competitor that that's who i remember growing up yeah but you you just don't do two action figures i would assume it's the same way of like stern doesn't get to keep the license for ninja turtles well i would say the venn diagram the venn diagram of people buying a play mechanics uh uh pinball or whatever the wonderland pinball machine versus buying a stern pinball machine there's zero overlap in that yeah but there had have been a lot more is what i'm saying like how many alice of wonderlands with their margins versus how many stern sold of ninja turtles versus their margins you see what i'm saying here like i i get what you're saying it's it it seems like yeah it's a little bit of an overlap but i don't see it being a
00:51:58
Speaker
a, a critical overlap. And who knows, maybe the Stern has vaulted turtles. They're not making anymore. Yeah. True. Maybe the license is done. don't know. Just wild, wild. In my opinion, it's just, uh, especially like if, I don't know, I guess it may just come down to dollar and cents sometimes, but imagine having Stern's Ninja Turtles in your coffee room at your business and also Wonderland Amusement's and If you, if you have that picture, please send it to us. Yes. We'd love to see it.
00:52:33
Speaker
Alrighty. Uh, what else we got here? Spooky's still making beetle juices. Um, and it's, it's still, it's still an amazing, uh, theme environment for beetle juice. If you're a fan, I think you'll be a fan of that game.
00:52:48
Speaker
ah Barrels of Fun is still producing. i think they just wrapped up Dune and they're working on Winchester. And if I remember correctly, they said they we should be wrapping up Winchester in September-ish time.
00:53:00
Speaker
um I will say i did not I did not buy a Winchester because it was sold out within 48 hours. I am definitely going to pick up Carl's next game because I want to i want to play it.
00:53:13
Speaker
I was heavily considering considering Winchester. And it's funny because like they announced on Tuesday yeah before Expo, i said I said, Zach, I think I'm interested. I just really want to go play this game. Yep.
00:53:26
Speaker
By the time I the played it at Expo on Thursday, it was all sold out.
00:53:32
Speaker
So my philosophy, you've got to play it before you buy it. Well, okay. well that one However, you still can buy it, Josh. Like it's going to cost a premium. I'm that. But i I am saying those are unicorns.
00:53:47
Speaker
I think that pretty much does it for everything on our list. There's not really many other companies doing anything at the moment. a lot of them are saying hush hush. I guess we could hurry and throw out there. Multimorphic did just announce today. um the one of the biggest complaints is the button configuration on the side. You can now buy different button configurations for your game. And then the flipper mechs, there's some new plates to help kind of keep a little more sturdier in the game. They're slowly they're slowly um implementing, ah I guess, updates to their their game system. So that's what you want.
00:54:19
Speaker
You want them to keep working on it. No, I totally agree. And I think that, um, I really do think that like they are doing really good. and I think it is good for them that they held off instead of showing in March. I know that like, yes, they say that t t TPF was where they stake their flag, but when you were holding off to sell games, like six to eight months later or to actually ship them out, it's hard to keep people better when you announce games that you can sell them right then.
00:54:48
Speaker
Yes. We'll have very short attention spans. Yep. Yep. I agree. So I think that does it for us, Scott.
Engagement and Feedback from Listeners
00:54:55
Speaker
Um, if you want to get ahold of us, we're loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com on all the socials at loser kid pinball. If you want some silver ball swag, the loser kid pinball Metallica shirt, or maybe a fun house shirt with Scott and I's face on it pointing at you. ah yeah Hit us up.
00:55:12
Speaker
We're also doing Patreon. We're also doing the spooky, the ultimate spooky game right now because that was highly requested. What's funny is Jersey Jacks actually kind of followed the pin side ratings pretty closely. Yeah. Those have went out the window with this one because here's the thing, like Looney Tunes and TNA are like six and eighth on the list. And I don't understand how they are lower than some of the other games above them.
00:55:34
Speaker
So yeah first round's going on right now. Go vote. It's free to vote. that Go sign up, whatever. um Scott, give us our last words. Yeah, no, definitely. um I want to know what you guys are looking for. i want to know what you guys are looking forward to in the games. And, ah okay, validate me. it Is having like a really cool moment in a game? Is that...
00:55:57
Speaker
a game breaker if if the game if your expectation is pulled out but i i'm really curious because i think it's a qualified maybe so let me know on that