Transcript
Speaker: There is nothing better in the world than the World Cup. And if you needed more evidence, which you almost assuredly didn't, today was the evidence of that. Because for six straight hours, the entire world turned into a pool of sweat, regardless of whether you were Argentine, Brazilian, Croatian, or Dutch. And if you were, you were like two times the pool of sweat.
Speaker: I mean, I have not recovered from the Argentina penalty shootout. We're recording this like, I don't know, half an hour after it happened, 20 minutes, 40 minutes. Time is relative. Time is relative. We're still at stoppage time. Maybe, maybe. I'm dead. This is the World Cup After Dark podcast. I'm Austin Miller. He's Amit Malek.
Speaker: We will get to Brazil, Croatia, which is a story in and of itself and could lead a podcast on any other day. But we have to start with Argentina and Netherlands with what is up to this moment, the quintessential knockout game of this World Cup, which has already given us a couple of really good games. And admit, we've said that Argentina have kind of been a rollercoaster of vibes in this tournament. And they did exactly the same thing today.
Speaker: And they finished on an up and they're going through the semifinals because of it. Correct. They are vibes team. Their vibe fluctuate based on what's happening. And this game encapsulated everything about them. They started off with the right idea, the right approach from Scolone. We were like, this is his big test against Louis Van Hall. And he got it right. He got it right, which we'll talk about. And Messi was messy. He was.
Speaker: still still at this age at this stage giving it all the assist on the first goal was all over the internet it's a pass that you it's not open by the time he plays it and it's insane
Speaker: And then he gets a penalty, and we'll certainly have our words about the referee as well. And then from 2 -0 up, you think, oh, Argentina are good. It's finally an easy knockout game. It'll be OK. Yeah, two goals in this World Cup is very good. It's very hard to come back from two down. And then Louis Van Hall said, well, we have not had to do this all tournament. We have 30 minutes left. Our tournament's on the line. We're leaning fully into the bit. Our best hope is to make this game
Speaker: a true chaos as possible and just lump balls into the box into our big dudes. And wouldn't you know it, without Veghorst, the unlikeliest of World Cup heroes, the big man personified, saves the Netherlands with two dramatic goals, including one in the 11th minute of stoppage time in the 90s.
Speaker: That's the thing that happened. The first goal is a well -taken header. It's a classic big guy goal, right? I'm bigger than you and it's a well -taken header. And then the Netherlands had had a free kick in pretty much that exact spot on the pitch at a different point in the match and took it and it went right into the wall.
Speaker: And it's the classic move. This is what you do when you are a FIFA player. And you're like, I'm bad at taking free kicks. There is no button I can press that this free kick is going in. So you just cheekily press X for the pass and hope that it works. And it worked for the nodes. They passed it low and slow and Venkors just posted up his defender and scored. And in the 11th minute of stoppage time, in the 90th minute of a World Cup quarterfinal, that is a thing that happened and that worked.
Speaker: It was insane. I mean...
Speaker: I don't know, like I don't know how to describe it. They just lumped bodies on, not to mention all the chaos and tension and cards in this game. The fact that we got through with no one sent off is astonishing to me after the Enzo Fernandez tackle and boot the ball into the bench and then the bench comes on the field. The Netherlands bench cleared twice in this game and it resulted in one yellow card. They cleared their bench twice. They got one yellow card because of it.
Speaker: yes 17 yellow cards i believe a world cup record the netherlands somehow outdid themselves from the 2010 world cup final where their entire tactics were to rough house spain for for 120 minutes this was insane and then
Speaker: We get to our first shootout after 30 minutes of play where Argentina, it seemed like they were shell -shocked, they were, but they kind of recovered back into the game. They have sustained pressure. I said this to you. The big difference between what happened to Argentina and what happened to Brazil, what happened to Argentina, that's a really great finish from Valtwegore. Sorry, they're passing the highlights on the play. It's a really great control. He stops it with his right foot. It's a really skilled play. It works perfectly.
Speaker: The reason why it's a smart play is because at any time in open play, if you could pass to your striker one -on -one with the back and he could take a touch and finish, you would take that. You don't get to do that in open play. And it was just free for the taking. And the reason why we call it a post -up is because he's so big. He takes his touch and you can't get to it, right? The center back on him makes a great effort and can't.
Speaker: It's a brilliant set piece. Yeah. All right. So the point I was making before I was distracted by the highlights that are passing on my TV right now, Argentina and Brazil, the difference between what happened to those two teams today is Argentina had half an hour to pick themselves back up. Brazil conceded a really stupid equalizer that forced penalties and had five minutes to try to emotionally recover from it. Argentina had a random 10 minute break before extra time even started where we took the extra time coin toss at midfield with the ball already placed. No idea what was up with that.
Speaker: and then didn't really do anything for 2025 minutes. And in the last five minutes of extra time, nearly won the game. A fantastic chance for L 'Altalo Martinez that is deflected by Van Dyke and then Enzo Fernandez hits the post. Two great
Speaker: grade A chances for Argentina and a deflected ball that almost nestled under the crossbar. And I think that legitimately helped Argentina be like, okay, we are the better team here. We have played better. We deserve this. And I think that leveled the playing field going into penalties.
Speaker: Yes, we are both in agreement as we went into detail in our last podcast that penalty kicks are a thing of skill. We're not going to rehash that. But part of that is the mental state, the mental fortitude, the calmness, whatever to get it done.
Speaker: We have kind of two more pieces of evidence that like your mental state totally matters here because Brazil were clearly a little shell -shocked and Argentina had recovered and This is why Deebu Martinez is here Yeah put himself on the map for that Copa America semi -final penalty kick shoot out against Colombia where he was all in their heads and he did it here and and
Speaker: Specifically, his technique, he does a bunch of stutter steps. It's not like the noodles we saw from Croatia last shootout round, but you can't read where he's going. And I think all these penalty kick takers, their first strategies, if you can read where the goalie goes, then you send them the wrong way.
Speaker: And then your second plan B is have a spot and just go to that spot. But if the keeper doesn't give you away, you don't know. And then the Netherlands took two fine penalties, but Deebu read them perfectly. And that was that. And they had two to play with by the time Enzo missed the first shot. There's a lot to break down in the penalty shootout. You were spot on about Deebu Martinez. That's how he made his name with Argentina was
Speaker: what he did against Columbia in the Copa America, right? That is how Diva Martinez made his name. And then Lionel Messi, who has had shootout faults for Argentina, takes two really good penalties today. The one in normal time just put it in the corner, said, big guy, you're not getting there. And then has the experience of having seen what the big guy is going to do on the penalties and just walks him into the corner and rolls it home.
Speaker: That is a huge penalty for Argentina. Your best player should take the first penalty. Again, another knock on Brazil in their shootout today. And he took it with confidence after the huge save. You have to consolidate the quick advantage that you get. They consolidated it. They saved it again. And then Enzo Fernandez steps up, match point, chance to win it, and he misses. And that's why the second save is so big, because you have one to play with.
Speaker: Netherlands score, and up steps Lautaro Martinez of it, who has had a terrible tournament. He has been horrible for Argentina, has not finished anything. And I will admit, I was about a 12 on 1 -10. How scared are you that this is not going in when he stepped up? It was a, oh no, what are you doing moment? Why you? Why now?
Speaker: And to his credit, cool as you like, right into the corner, goalkeeper's never getting to it. And I think he was super smart. He didn't play around with the goalkeeper. He wasn't trying to send him the wrong way. He said, I'm putting this in the corner. He's not getting to it. We're going to the semi -finals.
Speaker: Exactly. And I saw a lot of discourse that stutter stepping is especially on the clinching one doesn't work a lot. And I think in general, stutter stepping can work if you've practiced it, right know what you're doing. And you also have a good if I don't know where he's going, I still have this in my mind. indecision kills you. Harry Kane
Speaker: picks his penalties where they goes before his games are played. Apparently, Frank Rieberry back in the day used to flip a coin before every game, so his penalties were unpredictable. Reading the keeper is an advantage, but these players, how many of them take penalty kicks that often? It's different in training where you could stutter and then do it, but it's much harder the moment if the keeper doesn't move. The keeper's
Speaker: their training is to move as late as possible. And what you saw from Deebu that worked is he was reading them a little bit too, right? Sometimes the keeper has to guess ahead of time. My whole point on this on the stutters is like, it's not necessarily bad if Messi goes slow, because he's waiting, waiting. But Enzo, he just, he was like, okay, I'm going left.
Speaker: if I don't have a plan. But by the time he decides to go left, Knoppert has committed to that side of the goal. He's like, I better get it over there. And he's not running with a lot of force, so he's just kind of tapping it wide. It's a bad pen.
Speaker: It didn't matter though. It was fine. They got it done. One final point on the shootout. And then let's go back to the match itself and talk a little bit about the tactics. Diva Martinez did something that I thought was really intelligent. Saves the first penalty going one way. Saves the next penalty going the other way. You're too up. You have penalties to play with. On the third penalty, he stays in the middle. Does not save it. Netherlands goes to a side. They score.
Speaker: but to establish that I have it within me to stay in the middle. You can't just plunk it down the middle on me and think that I'm just going to go. I thought that was a really intelligent thing to do, particularly given the situation. Like I said, there was margin for error in the shootout at that point. He didn't need to save that penalty. He would have loved to save it, but maybe you're in the head of the Netherlands and they're thinking, all right, I'm just going to go down the middle because he's died and made two saves.
Speaker: Yeah. And there were a ton of mind games happening between the keepers, the shooters, the whole team standing at midfield, talking.
Speaker: You know, the mentality from Argentina was slightly better here. And okay, let's go back to the start. Quickly before that. So if the Netherlands in this game are called Curaçao and play like they played, they would have gotten railed by European media because all, all these non -European teams, there were plenty of shenanigans. I have nothing against shenanigans. I don't mind that the Netherlands tried to play shenanigans. I don't care about it.
Speaker: But there are people who will try to posit themselves that European football is holier than thou and doesn't delve to such depths. This was an entire game of shenanigans for the Netherlands. And Argentina are more than happy to oblige and play that game as well. But just a point that I wanted to make. All right, the tactics of this game for 70 minutes were super interesting. And then for 20 minutes was we are going to put every single big man we have on the field and lump it to them. And then in extra time, it was, oh crap, all of our big guys are still on the field. What do we do now?
Speaker: For the first 70 minutes, I thought Lionel Scolone was flawless for Argentina just about. Going to the back five was such an intelligent move. Not because it made Argentina more defensive. It did. It helped them defensively. But because it allowed Molina and Acuna to get forward and contribute in the play. And what happened? Molina scored a goal, making a forward run.
Speaker: Acuna won a penalty, making a forward one. Those plays happen because Argentina has three good ball -playing centerbacks who can play in space behind. Those players have more freedom. They are not constantly looking over their shoulder, wondering where Dumfries is, wondering where Depai is, wondering where Dacpo is. That, I thought, was technical genius from Scoloni.
Speaker: He didn't have on -hill DeMaria that kind of forced him into the change. Rodrigo de Paul was really good for Argentina today. He's had his moments in this tournament where he has not been good. The 65 minutes that he gave them today was really good. He helped advance the ball. He played really well. And, Amit, the Netherlands played like we expected them to play, but too much of this game until they just started lumping it forward was Virgil van Dijk standing outside the center circle, deciding whether to pass to his right or pass to his left.
Speaker: Yeah, I think starting with Scoloni's decision, you highlighted it was very smart. And we said in our preview of this game, this is a very big matchup for Acuna versus Dumfries. And what Scoloni did was give Acuna license to go forward and have three center backs behind him as you outlined. And it's like you said, the reason why they're so good is because they're good both ways. Because if you take off DeMaria,
Speaker: And you have three center backs, but you can't play the ball that well. Argentina would not have been able to control the game in possession. They actually did a very good job of this because of the ball playing skill of all of them. And that's particularly on Lissandra Martinez. So yes, the formation works, but also it was smart to put on a technical player. And it's very nice for Argentina that that player, the next player up behind Di Maria is a center back. So they were able to work this very well.
Speaker: And it was a very good job from the Argentine midfield in defense in preventing Frankie de Nong from spring encounters. And then what you saw, you know, I think the Netherlands knew that like, okay, Argentina are going to overload us. They're going to have to create with their full backs, which is maybe something that Louis Van Hall would have taken. But this is why they are good players. And this is why Argentina is the best iteration of a messy Argentina team, because players like Acuna can
Speaker: make that run forward, and they can get the goal, and it was really good. And on the pass itself, right, everyone is saying, how did he pick out this pass? How did he pick out this pass? I just wanna, I wanna talk about this for a second. This is a really genius pass from Lionel Messi, but it's not like unseeable. If you take away Nathan Aque who's in front of him, all he's doing is trying to slide a ball, pass, there's two defenders,
Speaker: and the right back is cutting through them. All he's trying to do is slide them. So he needs the left back, the center back to move to open the channel, right? And this is where I saw Mina Kimes, who's a football writer tweet. This is Mahomes -esque. And while I normally don't want my football writers coming on my soccer Twitter,
Speaker: this was accurate because Lionel Messi in real time is manipulating four defenders with space and time and that's why it's like a quarterback thing because he has the hesitation to open the window because he also knows he needs to manipulate two defenders at once but he needs this timing to do it exactly he needs
Speaker: to get on the end of the ball at the right moment and credit to Molina because that's not a super easy finish, right? Right. That is difficult to a think that that pass is coming to you and then be able to take it, control it and finish. And Andrei Schnoper runs like Bambi. He runs like a newly born deer coming off his line is just flailing big
Speaker: Lumpy can't really control himself. It's a very good finish. And it's an underrated part of this goal. The messy moment, obviously 100 % top tier, incredible world class. But the finish from Molino is really good as well.
Speaker: Right. It was awesome. And I'm not trying to take away from message. No one people don't make that pass. But like, there are a few players in the world that understand the ideas of that pass. Yeah. And we see them in real time. It was sublime. And then like you said, the Acuna run, he just kept going forward. Normally he would have looked panicked when he gets the ball and all that space. He like just crosses it badly. But he kept dribbling. He got the foul. Great.
Speaker: This is also a really good game for Alvarez up top. He did a lot of dirty work, a lot of running to press those center backs, like you said, to make life difficult for them playing the ball out of the back. Argentina were very well deserved to owe up. And then I think two things happened. One, it's desperation time for the Netherlands. So sub on all the big dudes and make it happen. And then two, they had to sub off Romero, Kuti Romero, who is
Speaker: out of their three center backs, maybe the best right now. Him and Otamendi. Otamendi's in really good form for Argentina. But like you said, Kuzi Romero on a yellow card, and we'll get to the yellow card point in a minute here, comes off and Argentina gets smaller because of that. And I think that helped the Netherlands. And I don't know that that was necessarily the right change. I think you kind of just have to live with Romero playing. Everyone in this game is on a yellow card. Right?
Speaker: And you trust your players to finish it out. And it'd be one thing to take off a defender for a shape change. But that's not what they did. They brought on another center back. And then, as you said, suddenly it was a lot of, oh my gosh, that's Vout Vegforz at 6 '7", on Lissajo Martinez, who's 5 '9". Like, let's lump balls into the box.
Speaker: And then it worked. And we kind of talked about the two Netherlands goals, but it was smart for Louis Van Hall. And it was unconventional. He didn't necessarily like, let's try to play pretty. He was like, we have 20 minutes. Let's make bounces happen. Because that's what you need, right? He understands the game. Louis Van Hall is a really good manager.
Speaker: I know the comeback was lucky in ways, but this showed like why he's so good at this level. And then at the end of the day, I think you saw the Netherlands squad limitations, not in the shootout, but over the course of 120 minutes come to bite them.
Speaker: And also, I don't fault Louis Van Hall for doing what he did. He made the right choice to just put the big guys on and whack it forward. But that made them particularly inefficient in extra time. Because now you're trying to play a completely different style. The game is now 2 -2. And what do you have? It's Luke De Jong and Vout Leghorst trying to interplay between the two on two going back the other way. That's never going to work. And I think he maybe should have used some of the changes that he had to change that up to give them a bit more going forward in extra time.
Speaker: Yeah, even in the last 10 minutes, it was good to get on on how DeMaria Yes, I will say though, I know Rodrigo de Paul had done so much running, so I understand taking him off. But in the
Speaker: 20 minutes and some of extra time. Leandro Paredes, you could see why he had been taken off. He's a perfectly fine player and he's got a very good defensive work rate. He was a little hot headed in this one. And he and Enzo Fernandez were definitely contributing to Argentina. I mean, there's no other way around it. They survived this game, but it was a meltdown. You go up two goals and then you give up a hundred first minute winner. And
Speaker: you know, the yellow cards were silly, right? Their fouls didn't need to happen. And that free kick we already talked about that led to the second goal. There's no need to foul there. Yes.
Speaker: So I don't really like doing the whole ref discourse. I think it's generally lazy and generally unintuitive and just doesn't add a lot, but it's necessary here because this game was influenced by the referee, the Spanish Antonio Lajos, and he chose to be inconsistent, like gave a bunch of yellow cards, but then didn't get, it was a game that was affected by how it was refereed. And I don't know that either team adjusted very well to it.
Speaker: Agreed, now the team adjusted. I don't think the team was happy with it. I think he had the intention of, I don't want to put a team down to 10 men in a quarterfinal. And I admire that intention. But as the referee, you need to kind of keep the game from diverting into complete chaos, as entertaining for viewers as that is.
Speaker: and his unwillingness to issue a second yellow to many players who committed yellow card offenses when they were on yellow cards and to not address the bench clearing twice. What that is saying is that like, you can do whatever you want and I'll keep you in the game. And that's, you know, we can say it's dangerous for player safety. It is, I agree. But it just, it led to the teams like doing crazy stupid fouls.
Speaker: in the end it was entertaining for the viewer sure but like it wasn't very well we're freed and I understand why Messi was upset even though he also could have had two yellow cards in this game and I understand why the Netherlands were upset because half the times they were allowed to like crash into an Argentina player and half the time if you touched one in the midfield it was a yellow card yeah exactly and I think
Speaker: This game needed yellow cards earlier to establish that, and then that maybe would have prevented them from happening later. Going forward for Argentina, the big takeaway here is they have two players suspended because of it. Marcos Acuna, Gonzalo Montiel, who was also, I thought, a really good substitution from Leonel Scolini in extra time.
Speaker: gave them fresh legs, just fresh legs to go forward, and also a player that has experience taking penalties, took a penalty and made it, but he got them on early enough that it wasn't just a you're taking a penalty sub. It wasn't like what we saw with Spain against Morocco. It was, you're going to come on the pitch, play a role, and then when it's time for penalties, you'll take a penalty. I thought that was good. He'll be suspended for the semifinals. So, Argentina are going to have to make a change at left -back for Acuna, who has drawn some ire from us in this tournament, but has been a consistent starter for Argentina. So,
Speaker: That's something to go for. DeMaria's health still a question. DePaul's health still a question. Argentina were gassed in extra time. Messi in particular was just done. You could tell it. There were no more runs left to be had. So I think with all of that, that will be super interesting to watch going forward. And so taking all of that into consideration, the fact that Acuna and Montiel are suspended, the fact that Argentina had to spend so much today,
Speaker: I mean, where are you at with them going forward? Is it even valuable to try and talk about them with logic going forward in this tournament?
Speaker: It's hard. We're at the point of the tournament where logic is kind of dumped out, right? We'll talk about this Croatia Brazil game similarly defies everything we thought with our pre -tournament favorites going out. And good things for sure. One is that Croatia also played 120 minutes for the slight game. So that helps. Croatia might be aliens who are extremely physically fit and can run forever.
Speaker: Uh, which is wild Marcello Brozovic ran like literally nine miles in that match, which is silly. But the other good part of it here for Argentina is that there are two outside backs that they can roll out are going to be good. Right. They have targeted people on one side and they have Nahua Molina who played well today. The issue is now like.
Speaker: that's in a position for argentina they require those guys to do a lot of running specifically because they're wingbacks just by nature and now they don't have natural subs so you know i'm looking at their bench maybe you could tell me like can you trust any of these guys to come play wingback not really i'm looking at these then i see none of them are true wingbacks one -fourth is a right back he's a right sorry a right center back he's played in a back three but never wingback so like
Speaker: then it's a little dicey, especially if that game goes 120 minutes. But if you're an extra time against Croatia, it doesn't matter that you're missing wing backs. It's just, you know, empty the tank. I think Argentina are fine. It could have been worse. So the fact that they have - They could have been out of the tournament. So you'll deal with whoever you have to put out on the pitch in the next game. Doesn't matter because there is a next game. Exactly. The fact that they have two competent wing backs is a good sign. And just looking to head to Croatia, like,
Speaker: Yeah, we saw that Brazil dominated them and still couldn't get through, but Argentina will look to do the same. And at this point, no one is underestimating Croatia.
Speaker: I think Argentina, for them, they just need to not get too ahead of themselves because it's taken us this long to just say it. But like, for Argentina, they advanced today and Brazil did not. What a massive day for their for their footballing just existence. It was open to a final. So, yeah, the doors open. But I'm just saying, obviously, don't know. No one's overlooking Croatia, but at the same time,
Speaker: really, really do not overlook Croatia, right? And this, the scenes were what you expect from winning a game like that, but it was awfully euphoric and cathartic for an Argentina team that has two games left to get to their own goal. Yeah, my counterpoint to that is it has been awfully cathartic and euphoric after every game they've played at this World Cup.
Speaker: They celebrated the Mexico win like it was a final. They celebrated the Poland win like it was a final. Argentina are just going with that at this World Cup and that's fine. We're just going to establish that every game is a final and they're going to celebrate it like a final.
Speaker: Yeah, it's one thing to say that when you're like Steve Bruce and there's eight games to go in the relegation fight. And it's like, okay, you could say every game is a final, but not really. But at the World Cup, you can talk yourself into that being the case. And clearly, you know, Messi said in his post game, something along the lines of like,
Speaker: this is what we do every game we like are always up for it we always fight we always play with will and i think it's interesting he said that it's you know you could read it as word salad but like for this argentina team their desire and their heart like every team is playing but like
Speaker: it was chippy and they were bigger mentally and like yeah that's the stuff you have to tell yourself to get through to step if you're gonna say ever game is like a final that's what you have to be at that level mentally to like actually go out and do it so
Speaker: Big, big, big test passed for me. They're now the tournament favorites. If France beat England, that'll probably shift, right? Just on nature, right? They have Croatia in their game. And the other two semifinalists, unless France are playing Morocco, then you can say France are the new favorites. But until that game happens right now, Argentina are the tournament favorites.
Speaker: that is a crazy thing to say about a team that just rides the roller coaster every single day they're in guitar i think it's super interesting because like you said
Speaker: The whole we play with will, we play with fight, we want it. That is very clearly how Argentina self -identify. And that's where I think it matters. And it makes it more than just word salad coming from the captain. It's the fact of they view that as fundamental to how they play, right? What Argentina are going to do at this World Cup to them as a team, as the 26 people in the room, as the coaching staff,
Speaker: It is dependent that they bring desire, that they bring will, that they bring know -how, that they bring now into all of that. And so I think that elevates what they're able to do with those emotional plays, with that want to and willpower and all of that. And it has not made for an easy ride for them.
Speaker: But that might not be a bad thing because they've been tested multiple times now at this World Cup. They've gotten through it every single time. And at this point, you're in the World Cup semifinals. If things go wrong now, they go wrong. That happens because it's the World Cup semifinals. It's been asked Brazil. You need to get there. And they got there. So everything to this point at this point, it doesn't matter. It's really hard for both of us who watch a lot of soccer to like
Speaker: quantify these kinds of things. Sure. What does it mean that like, we say they bring all that stuff and like, I don't know the answer. But in such a small sample size, seven games max at a World Cup, when you get to
Speaker: one -off knockout stage games. I think it matters. We watched the same game today. We've watched Argentina play. It's not fake to say that their intensity stands out about them. Of course, every team is playing hard, but
Speaker: it's different with Argentina. And that was one of our overarching takeaways at the very, very start of all of this back in our predictions and why we both picked them to win. And does it matter that it's a took a penalty shootout, it's a bumpy ride? No, because every team needs those bounces, right? That's just inherent in soccer. They're in the final four. What a game.
Speaker: What a game. I'm still recovered from it. I'm just like thinking back and there's just random moments, you know, that just like pop into your head. Like, oh, that's a thing that happened in this game. And yeah, it was a rollercoaster of a ride. And like you said, a great day for Argentina because not only are they through, but there are trials are out. Brazil fall to Croatia.
Speaker: So Amit, what happened to Brazil? Did this literally just come down to one moment and that was it for Brazil's World Cup? I think so. I think they could have scored more in regulation, maybe, or they could have scored another when they were up one because in XG they put up over two in this game. And that's the, you know, the knife's edge. If you give up one and you're only up one, you can
Speaker: You can get beat and then penalties. Yeah, I mean, you know, we both agree. We've said it many times on how we feel about penalties. But this one was particularly tough. Right. It was one bad one. And it wasn't even that bad. I mean, you know, probably Rodrigo probably should have put it in the corner. But it was good penalties from Croatia. And we've already talked about penalties a lot in this podcast and last podcast. Croatia went down the middle on their first two.
Speaker: And from there, it just felt like they had Allison guessing. And there was one where Allison went the right way. And it was just a really well -taken penalty into the corner. So I feel for Brazil. This was a very good team. They were well -built for this kind of soccer. And they just kind of got got by this Croatia team that is just
Speaker: defying everything we understand, not everything we understand, but they're just getting away with a lot of stuff right now. And it's because they're good. So again, not to kind of toot my own horn here, but every single time I do an interview with an English radio station when they call the South American guy to talk South America without fail.
Speaker: The British host comes on, he reads his little read, and we're joined now by Austin Miller of FCDH Media. So Austin, Neymar. And that's the first question. Always without fail, the first question is just Neymar dot, dot, dot. So Amit, Neymar. Yeah, I mean, I feel for him specifically because this was his World Cup moment, and that's what everyone's saying.
Speaker: But what you saw Messi do today in this tournament has been already adding on to his great legacy. But it's also been probably the best he's been for Argentina and the best Argentina have been around him.
Speaker: This for Brazil was Neymar's best team. I think it's close. And then you look at how he's played. He's been fine. He was hurt for a few games. But then today, you know, and his whole kind of World Cup resume wears a moment like this. And then he scores. He starts, gets two 1 -2 passes. The assist from Paqueta is underratedly really good. And then to dribble around the keeper,
Speaker: this is like sublime World Cup stuff. You don't score a goal like this in a World Cup and then lose, right? How many teams score an extra time at the World Cup and don't go on to win? It felt like it was, I know it wasn't a final, right? But like the GOATSA goal or the INESSA goal in the World Cup finals in 10 and 14, like
Speaker: It was that amazing of a moment, that cathartic. And I think part of that reason, I know Brazil are very good at seeing it out, but it's just one crazy moment in transition and it was tied.
Speaker: It felt like you said he had his World Cup moment and I think I texted that to you. That is Neymar's World Cup moment. The thing we will always remember Neymar for. The moment in a Brazil strip that always gets played. And then it got ruined because an incredibly good defensive Brazil team that have been good at seeing results out. That is their bit. That is what they do.
Speaker: Somehow left themselves four on four coming back the other way in the 117th minute leading You cannot do that and that goal goes in and you said it earlier in the show Brazil were just Shellshot and it was it and it went to penalties and you never felt like they were going to win that penalty shootout that was never going to happen and then
Speaker: Neymar doesn't even take a penalty because we assume is being saved for fit and I understand the tendency to fault Neymar for that but Cheech has to say you're taking the first penalty. It's what we do. It's what you have to do and that's a big fault of Cheech. I didn't think he had a very good day today.
Speaker: I thought his substitutions didn't change much for Brazil. I thought bringing Pedro on was fine. But Antony and Rodrigo, I think he took Venezia's junior out too soon. They didn't change the game for Brazil. They created the moment of brilliance that should have put them through.
Speaker: And then they didn't get it done and they lost on penalties. And there's just this absolute crestfall and shell shock Brazilian public because of it. And it's hard to even fathom that the team we thought was the best team at this tournament, the team that came off just absolutely pounding South Korea with one of the best performance we saw went out and went out like this, leading with five minutes to go in extra time and see.
Speaker: It's very weird to think that this Brazil team went out like this. As you said, exactly that, because they're so designed to limit moments of chaos in one -off knockout soccer. And unfortunately, it's how they lost to Belgium, right? A 1 -0 goal, and they couldn't have it. This game played the way they wanted. They got to extra time 0 -0, but Croatia did not have a lot in the 90 minutes of regulation.
Speaker: And they slowly worked Croatia back as Croatia's legs slowed down over the course of the game. They got a world -class goal from their creative players. And then they were in the stage of the game that they're so good at. And that goal kind of transition pops up out of nowhere. And then no one gets back. And yes, it's a deflection. It's lucky. It's lucky. But the fact to allow that four on four and to get caught out, it's a bummer.
Speaker: I don't know. I think subbing on Fred for Paqueta is fine. You need the legs and Fred is a good defensive runner. It's hard to fault that, but I agree with all your other changes. I think Brazil could have done more to attack this game more earlier when Croatia were really reeling in the second half as their legs went.
Speaker: They did what they had to do, right? They scored the goal out of nothing. They split the Croatian defense. Neymar for once in his life stays on his feet and doesn't go down looking for contact. That should have been the moment. I know. It's it kind of it. It just defies belief. We're like left without words because Brazil did everything right. And their approach to this game was right. And yeah, I think she didn't have his best day. But if you told him
Speaker: at any point, you're in the World Cup Final, you're up one with three minutes to go. He'd be like, side me up. Where do I side? Of course I'll take that. Of course I'll take that. So it goes both ways. And I think this is the bounces of soccer. Like, I don't want to chalk this up to too much variance, but Brazil have lost.
Speaker: into really heartbreaking World Cup quarterfinals the past two runs. And it's not because they haven't put together one of the best teams of the tournament. They've done that two times in a row. It's really crazy. And a few podcasts ago, I said, why haven't Spain and Germany learned from what they've done?
Speaker: Brazil have also not underperformed to the same level, but they've underperformed their own expectations. And it, you know, I think it's important for us to recognize process over results here. This Brazil team is built the right way. They generally play the right way, but things can happen. And at the same time, every little decision adds up. You and I both don't rate Antony that much.
Speaker: He was not good in this game. No. And they maybe could have gotten another 15, 20 minutes out of Venetius. Like, why not? It's kind of hard to square that. But at the end of the day, they were still up one. And all they had to do was win. And they also had a shootout. And that's where a shootout is kind of unlucky. And probably for Allison, for all of his shot -stopping prowess, he didn't save one. No.
Speaker: It's got really close, but like Deebu Martinez saved his two penalties. I... Lelakumich has saved penalties in two straight shootouts for Croatia. Yeah. You need to save from your goalkeeper at some point. And that, I think, is a really interesting point here as well. They still had a penalty shootout, but it just felt so inevitable after Croatia scored. There's no way Brazil picked themselves off the mat. They missed their first penalty, and Martinez hit the post. That's it. Goodbye. Yeah. You're done. Yeah.
Speaker: That's it. And let's talk about Croatia a little bit. Can Croatia keep doing this? I mean, so this is the thing. Even for us, even for us that say penalty shootouts are a skill, I think winning four is a clear data point that it is a skill. Just if they were 50 -50, two to the fourth power, right?
Speaker: two, four, eight, 16, a one in 16 chance of winning four shootouts in a row. That's very, very small. It's just statistically unlikely. It means they must be doing something right. And that could be, you know, if you flip a coin enough times, yes, it'll hit tails four times in a row. Like that's how math works. Croatia are clearly mentally like insane up there. I don't know what these and they and they talk about it openly. They're like everyone in Croatia grows up a warrior and like they love this stuff.
Speaker: they get stronger as the match goes on weirdly. How many teams go down with 10 minutes left in extra time and you can't get anything? They have this weird belief. And on my last part of this, I want to talk about Luca Modric, who in a game full of stars, in a game full of big club players, he is still one of them. He still was, I know he did directly influence the goal, but
Speaker: He is this weird, like, numbers -defying guy. And maybe I'm reading too much that Real Madrid, Champions League title, talk about round after round of improbable victories. I think there's something to be said that Real Madrid do the improbable. Croatia have had two major World Cup runs.
Speaker: that this guy in the midfield, there's something about his running and his passing and his control of a game that just elevates you so high that they're able to do this. And they have other very, very good players. This Croatia team is something to be reckoned with, man. At some point, we have to say, yes, they can keep doing this because they're insanely good.
Speaker: At some point, you think that playing 120 minutes consecutively and going to penalty shootouts in all of these World Cup games will come back to haunt them, but it hasn't yet. And they go into the semifinal against an Argentina team that have certainly let every opposition stay around in the match. They haven't put anybody away emphatically other than Poland. And because of that, Croatia are going to have a chance in this game. And what's to say that they don't just get it to extra time and work their magic again in extra time?
Speaker: On Brazil, to close this podcast out, Amit, I'm really intrigued to see what happens next for Brazil. Cheech will not be their manager. That was decided before the World Cup. That isn't a reaction to what happened today. He didn't have his best day today, but as you said, built a very good Brazil program, a very good team that was unable to get it done at back -to -back World Cups, and that will haunt his Brazil legacy.
Speaker: But now what now for Brazil? The best managers in Brazil are Portuguese, Abel Ferreira at Palmetas, and Jorge de Júz, who led Flamengo to a Libertadores title. Doreval Jr. led Flamengo to the last Libertadores title, is no longer their manager. Flamengo have hired a Portuguese manager. What are Brazil going to do with the national team managers? The biggest question going forward for them. It's not a question we're going to answer before this World Cup is over.
Speaker: but it's absolutely fascinating because all of the pieces are there for this team to be world champions. There's no doubt in anybody's mind that the talent top to bottom, goalkeeper, defense, midfielder, attackers, everywhere but fullback is set for Brazil for the foreseeable future. Who is the person to come in and take charge of that? And do Brazil finally have a foreign manager? My answer to that is it's gonna depend on which foreign manager it is.
Speaker: If Pep Guardiola calls the Brazilian Federation tomorrow and is like, hey, I'm in, they will be perfectly fine having a non -Brazilian manager. But will they bend that rule for somebody like Abel Ferreira, Jorge Jesus? That, I don't know. And that is fascinating to me. There is not a prime candidate to be the next Brazil manager. There's no big up and coming Brazilian managerial talent. There's pretty much no Brazilian managerial talent outside the Middle East and outside Brazil.
Speaker: It's absolutely fascinating to see what happens going forward with Brazil. I mean, we have two more semifinals, two more quarterfinals tomorrow. I can't believe we're about to do this all over again. It's insane. We made our picks. We previewed those. If you want to hear what we think about Portugal, Morocco, England, France, check out the last podcast that we recorded after Tuesday's action. We're done for today. I mean, I will see you back here tomorrow. I will not be a sweaty. That's a good thing.
Speaker: Uh, maybe the games will be so crazy, we'll both be sweaty anyways. That's what I hope. Let's have a good England -France matchup. I'm excited for England -France. It better deliver. I need a heavyweight fight that gets me a goal and I get to see a team chase. I just want to see one of these teams have to play. We saw nether ones have to play. And it delivered. No, they just chucked a bunch of big guys up, but it worked. What's to say England don't do that as well. Peter Crouch hanging around, can they bring him off the bench?
Speaker: Oh, that'd be something. Get another big guy on. All right. Thanks as always for listening. We'll be back tomorrow. And we'll see you guys then.
