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Rest And Recovery with Endurance Athlete Eric Hinman - E43
27 Plays2 months ago
Are you stuck in a cycle of training that leads to missed milestones and endless fatigue? Many fitness enthusiasts overlook the critical role that rest and recovery play in improving performance and achieving fitness goals. Instead of allowing our bodies to recover and adapt, we push harder, risking burnout and injury. In this episode, we delve into an endurance athlete's routine and strategies for optimizing training with effective recovery practices.
Eric Hinman is a hybrid athlete, creator and entrepreneur. A formidable force in the world of triathlons and Ironmans, Eric has learnt how to leverage the philosophy of "slow down to speed up" to optimize endurance without succumbing to overtraining. Known for his approach to balancing intense fitness pursuits with recovery and lifestyle practices, he is also an advocate for the benefits of sauna and cold plunge routines. Eric actively shares his insights on health through various platforms and has collaborated with acclaimed brands such as Slate, Ice Barrel and Ten Thousand. His holistic approach to fitness and wellness embodies the integration of physical, mental, and social aspects for a sustainable, vibrant lifestyle.
“If you can get everything in unison or really close to unison, that's when you're gonna be firing on all cylinders and you know you're gonna avoid injury.” - Eric Hinman
In this episode, you will learn:
- The counterintuitive approach of slowing down to speed up in endurance training and its transformative impact on performance.
- How Eric transitioned from Ironman triathlons back to CrossFit, redefining his fitness routine to enhance anaerobic capacity.
- Essential tools and equipment for home workouts, including the benefits of mixing aerobic conditioning with strength training.
- The role of rest and recovery, including the benefits of sauna, cold plunge, and proper sleep hygiene for optimizing performance and well-being.
- The importance of community and social connection in fitness, combining wellness activities with communal experiences to foster deeper bonds.
- Insights into nutrition principles focusing on single ingredient foods and the strategic balance of protein, carbs, and fats throughout the day.
Resources
- Connect with Eric on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/erichinman
- Subscribe to Eric’s bi-weekly newsletter, “The Movement Memo”: https://the-movement-memo.beehiiv.com/
- Shop all the products Eric mentions in this episode: https://alively.com/products/eric-hinman
This podcast was produced by the team at Zapods Podcast Agency:
https://www.zapods.com
Find the products, practices, and routines discussed on the Alively website:
https://alively.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Hiring a Coach for Endurance Sports
00:00:00
Speaker
So I end up hiring him as as my coach. He coached a few other athletes. He told me that I had to slow down to speed up, and I just didn't understand that. So I'm like, you're telling me that I have to run slower. I have to bike slower, and I'm going to be faster than you. i just don't understand how that works.
00:00:17
Speaker
So it took about four to five weeks of me not listening to his heart rate zones. And he calls me, and he goes, I'm going to fire you.
Eric's Fitness Journey and Coaching Challenges
00:00:30
Speaker
This is the Home of Health Spam podcast, where we profile health and wellness role models, sharing their stories and the tools, practices, and routines they use to live a lively life.
00:00:44
Speaker
Eric, it is great to be here with you. i followed you for a while. Your your journey has been a complete inspiration to me, and I'm just excited to share your story with our listeners.
00:00:57
Speaker
So thank you for making the time. Thanks for having me, Andrew. I was thinking maybe a good place to start would be a recent post you had where a coach almost fired you for going too hard.
00:01:10
Speaker
and Because I think this is it's not, it's counterintuitive to a lot of people. um For those who may not have seen the post, can you share a little bit about that and kind of the impact that had on you?
Transition from CrossFit to Triathlons
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, i mean, it was counterintuitive to me. That's why I almost got fired. So ah when I first started triathlon, I was coming from CrossFit-type training background.
00:01:32
Speaker
I had hired a personal trainer in my late 20s to help me get back into aesthetically good-looking shape, and he had me doing CrossFit workouts before CrossFit was really a thing, back in like 2009, 2010.
00:01:46
Speaker
So essentially I was doing complex lifts with my heart rate elevated. I was doing, you know squats, thrusters, deadlifts, and then rowing in between sets or running around this indoor track in between sets.
00:01:58
Speaker
And they were 30 minute workouts at 6 a.m. five days a week. And I was going really hard. So, you know, through him, i thought that to get fitter, you just went harder. You lifted heavier. You got your heart rate higher. Yeah. So I fall into this world of triathlon and I had a running background.
Training Strategies and Endurance Improvement
00:02:20
Speaker
Biking came really naturally to me.
00:02:22
Speaker
um Swimming took a bit to pick up the skill behind it. But, you know, when I'm into something, I go all in for good and for bad. So I went all in on triathlon and I started doing these Wednesday night triathlons in Jamesville, New York, small suburban town of Syracuse, New York.
00:02:41
Speaker
And after a year of doing them, I started winning these Wednesday night triathlons. And, you know, they were a sprint distance. So it was kind of an all out effort for about an hour.
00:02:51
Speaker
And that was within my domain of fitness because I was used to these 30 minute efforts of just spike my heart rate for 30 minutes and, you know, see if i can go faster each time. But then when I would do it like an Olympic distance triathlon or like a a half Ironman, this guy, Mike Corona, who would beat me, he would beat me in these longer distance triathlons and I would beat him in the shorter ones.
00:03:12
Speaker
So, and I looked way fitter than him at the time. you know, I had abs and I had muscles cause I was lifting weights and most triathletes, you know, they're, they're kind of scrawny. They're running, biking, and swimming all the time. They're not doing a lot of weight training. And I was doing a lot of weight training.
00:03:26
Speaker
So I end up hiring him as as my coach. He coached a few other athletes, and he told me that I had to slow down to speed up, and I just didn't understand that. So I'm like, you're telling me that I have to run slower, I have to bike slower, and I'm going to be faster than you. i just don't understand how that works.
00:03:45
Speaker
So it took about four to five weeks of me not listening to his heart rate zones. And he calls me and he goes, I'm going to fire you. And I'm like, why dude? I'm like hitting all the workouts. He's like, you're not hitting the workouts.
00:03:59
Speaker
You are going way beyond the heart rate zones that I have prescribed. And you you're not going to beat me if you keep doing that. So I'm going to fire you. Like if you're not going to follow the program, then why are you paying me to, to, for my knowledge?
00:04:11
Speaker
So I'm like, all right, I'll, I'll follow it. But I just, can't fathom why going slower would work. So I start following it and sure enough, over like a three month period when it was time to, you know, go and race or, you know, do like even a shorter distance 5k, all of a sudden I was faster.
00:04:30
Speaker
And at the time i was, I mean, prior to hiring him, i was only running like four to six miles and I was doing everything at like a 160 plus heart rate. So pretty high intensity.
00:04:43
Speaker
He told me that he wanted me between 130 and 140 heart rate for all of my running. So that backed my pace down from like a high six minute per mile pace to like an 830 or 840 pace at ah at a 135 heart rate.
00:04:58
Speaker
So, but by doing that, I was able to do more volume. I was able to run further. i was able to run more consistently. i was able to bike longer. i was able to bike more frequently because I was fresher. You know, I wasn't pounding myself into the ground day in and day out.
00:05:11
Speaker
So over a three month period, all of a sudden, like I'm a little faster in a race and then a six month period, like I start seeing my pace go down at that same heart rate of 135.
Balancing CrossFit and Endurance Sports
00:05:22
Speaker
So fast forward four years from 2010 to 2014. In 2014, I could in the six twenty minute per mile pace At a 129 heart rate for 20 plus miles, my body just became so durable.
00:05:36
Speaker
um you know My heart became so efficient. my ah My cardiovascular system so efficient at pumping blood that I just became fitter and it worked. So you know this works for endurance. You know, if you want to be a fast 400 runner, then you're going to have to do a lot of speed work and strength work. But if you want to be a really good endurance runner, you got to slow down to speed up because by slowing down, you're going to become more efficient at processing oxygen. Your heart is going to become more efficient and you're going to build masses. massive muscular endurance and muscular durability, which, you know, ultimately is what a lot of these races are limited by is like how, you know, it's just kind of becomes a death march. And it's like, all right, is your body going to keep moving after biking 112 miles and you have to run a marathon that has nothing to do with how much you can lift or how fast. fast you can run a 400 or how high you can get your heart rate or how fast you can do the Fran CrossFit workout.
00:06:30
Speaker
It has everything to do with muscular endurance, durability, you know your your body's ability to practice oxygen and how efficient your heart is. It's one of those things that you know following the science I know and I get and I still have coming from a distance swimming background where it was just all basically gray zone yardage day in, day out.
00:06:48
Speaker
It's still really hard for me to get myself to do it. Now, I did a couple of rucks today to really try to lock in on that zone too. But for people to really understand, we spend way too much time in, I think you called it that gray zone, right? Like that, that 160 versus the super high intensity of like, Hey, you're going zone five, really, really pushing it in a burst, or you're building that really solid base to build that muscular endurance.
00:07:16
Speaker
So, yeah, that's that's fantastic kind of to set a baseline where it took your ah triathlon and your 5X Ironman journey. Can you say a little bit about where you are now? Right. So you started more CrossFit, got way more into triathlon. And then now, you know, if people who follow you see, you know, this far more ripped in your 40s, much bigger size, more on the CrossFit now than that endurance Ironman side. So can you talk a little bit about what led to that change and what today looks like for you on the fitness front?
00:07:48
Speaker
For sure. So, I mean, I became addicted to the endurance side of things because I was good at it. And i was also comfortable. I was really comfortable riding for three, four, five hours. I was really comfortable running for one, two, two and a half hours.
00:08:02
Speaker
I got to a place where I was no longer comfortable with super high intensity and super low duration and super low reps and sets. So when I made the transition, from Ironman kind of back into the CrossFit world, it took me another year to figure out, like, I got to back way off on the endurance stuff.
00:08:22
Speaker
I need to back off on all of the reps and sets. like Like, I can't do five hours of volume a day like I was doing with triathlon. And, like, you have to recover long enough in between sets so that you can back up that effort.
00:08:34
Speaker
And you have to go a lot shorter shorter in these conditioning pieces if you want to increase your anaerobic capacity because, ah you know, all all of a sudden the 150 to 160 is a gray zone again.
00:08:45
Speaker
Like you got to be doing stuff at like 170 or even 180. You got to be going max heart rate, but only for like 30 seconds, one minute, not long duration. And then, you know, you're recovering enough to be able to back that effort effort up again so that you can increase your anaerobic capacity and you can increase your lactate threshold.
00:09:03
Speaker
And then with the reps and sets with lifting, like That's kind of like triathlon where you're not lift you're not maxing out every single day. Every day, you know you're doing a percentage of your one rep max, you're kind of periodizing it until you get to a place where you're testing that one rep max, and then you're doing a deload week, and then you're doing you know periodized training again.
00:09:23
Speaker
So it took me a good one to two years to to get back to a place where I'm going hard enough in the efforts with conditioning, that I was resting enough in between sets, that I was lifting heavy enough to get stronger, and that I honestly had to back way off on running to get to where I am now. And that happened over the last two to two and a half years where you know I only run about once a week now.
00:09:48
Speaker
And that was really the secret sauce that I i was missing in order to get stronger. i was still running too much. I was doing too much endurance stuff to gain the strength I needed to be a competitive CrossFit athlete. So, yeah, i mean, now my mix of training is I'm very focused on CrossFit. I'm trying to get to the CrossFit games in my age group.
00:10:06
Speaker
So I'm in the gym five to six days per week doing CrossFit type training. And then five to six days per week, I'm doing some kind of aerobic conditioning, but it's generally mountain biking in the mountains. And very rarely is it over 90 minutes. It's usually 60 to 90 minutes of aerobic exercise so that it's not massively affecting my ability to lift heavy and and do the anaerobic conditioning that CrossFit requires.
00:10:28
Speaker
And that that mountain biking, do you try to keep it in that zone two range when you're doing it? I do. I keep it in the zone two range, but there are some intervals within it. I mean, the terrain kind of dictates your effort. So, you know, if you're climbing something that is super steep, it may push me a little out of zone two. But I mean, I really use the CrossFit training for the anaerobic conditioning and the mountain biking for the aerobic conditioning. And, you know, I have years of bike volume under my belt. So, you know, even the steepest of climbs, you You know, I can generally stay in that zone to gear when I'm out there doing it.
00:11:02
Speaker
And do you have any you just said gear um in terms of gears on a bike, but do you have any gear that are your go to's on the fitness side? Like what is the bike you use?
00:11:12
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I got a really fancy bike. I have a specialized S-Works Epic, which is the top of the line cross country race bike that they have. And then as far as like CrossFit gear, um right now I'm red wearing Rad Global shoes that I just got. I really like them. 10,000 is an apparel brand that I'm an investor in and have worked with since day one.
00:11:34
Speaker
um I mean, some of the tools that are kind of a game changer are grips, for CrossFit, wristbands for CrossFit, especially when you're in hotter climates. The wristbands just help keep the sweat from getting onto your hands um and getting onto your grips so that you can still hold the barbell. Chalk, obviously, is a no-brainer, like bringing chalk with me everywhere I go to make sure I have good grip on the barbell and good grip on... ah on any of the the pull-up bars or ropes or rings that I'm using.
00:12:00
Speaker
With triathlon, I mean, I have a bike computer that i I've used for years, a Garmin bike computer. I have an Apple Watch that I use to just kind of loosely monitor everything.
Injury Prevention and Recovery Practices
00:12:11
Speaker
um I have a pretty good understanding of my body having done this for years of that. I know around what heart rate I'm in at all times. You know, I still watch it on the bike just to see if I'm within that 130 to 140 heart rate zone. But I kind of know that I am.
00:12:26
Speaker
And CrossFit, like, you know, I know how hard I can go on most workouts. um I know what I can do unbroken before I have to rest. I've done it long enough to kind of know what my body is capable of and what my mind is capable of and you know i try to push a little bit harder and you know every couple months on whatever kind of period i'm in within the crossfit training for those you know those listening that probably aren't as attuned which i think is 99 of humanity just aren't as good at listening those signals
00:12:57
Speaker
would Would you say, what's the right signal for them? If they're doing something and the form starts to give, that's basically failure. Failure is not once you get hurt, right? You can push through it with bad form, but if you're using poor form, you're not doing the right thing anyway. is Is that kind of the recommendation you would give them?
00:13:13
Speaker
Oh yeah, a hundred percent. So I got injured a ton when I first started and into CrossFit because it was my fault. I was trying to, you know, do too much weight. I didn't have the proper foundation. I didn't have the mobility.
00:13:24
Speaker
ah didn't have, um, the, I hadn't strengthened my smaller tendons, ligaments, and stability muscles enough to support the heavy weight. And I was doing it, you know, with my heart rate elevated. So my form was being compromised and yeah, I mean, I was banged up from 2016 to 2018 all the time. I was always working around something. It was frustrating.
00:13:46
Speaker
And it wasn't until I really focused on building a solid foundation. So just like backing off on CrossFit and just like squatting a lot, but a lower percentage front squats, back squats, lunges, deadlifting, RDLs, overhead, strict overhead presses, bench press, and then lots of accessory work, bodybuilder type stuff of like bent over reverse flies and shoulder raises and slat raises and using crossover symmetry and use it for pull-ups, doing a lot with high volume pull-ups with bands.
00:14:17
Speaker
Again, just you're always fighting what is holding you back in CrossFit. Like something is always lagging. So, you know, if you can get everything in unison or really close So that's did is backed lot on all cylinders and you know you're you're going to avoid injury if you can get everything kind of strengthened to the same degree so that's what i did is i i backed off a lot on all of the crossfit mecons i was still doing conditioning but it was low skill conditioning You know, assault bike intervals, row intervals, skier intervals, burpees, burpee box jump overs.
00:14:51
Speaker
I wasn't snatching with a high heart rate. I wasn't snatching heavy with a high heart rate. I wasn't, you know, clean and jerk, deadlift, any back squat. I wasn't doing any of that stuff at a high heart rate. So after backing off doing that stuff for a couple years, building the foundation, building the mobility, building the movement patterns.
00:15:06
Speaker
you know Then I was able to start layering layering the Metcons back in. And you know the last three, four years, the only time I really have gotten hurt these last few years have been from crashing my mountain bike. Yeah, as I saw some of those. You mentioned...
00:15:20
Speaker
A piece of equipment, the the assault bike. And the post that we actually started this with, you're on the assault treadmill, which I absolutely love those. Do you have any go-to home equipment when you're not able to get to the box or or get out on your mountain bike? Any stuff at home that you like to keep around?
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah, if anyone if anyone can see the video version of this, this is Muscle Mountain. So I have ah i have the Assault Bike, I have the Rower, I have the SkiErg, I have a GHD machine, i have a full rig, um sauna, shower, ice barrel, barbells, plates, sandbags.
00:15:54
Speaker
um The things I use most here, the Assault Runner, the things I use most here, though, would be the SkiErg, the Assault Bike, the rig, um and sandbags. Typically here at home, I'm doing like longer EMOMs, every minute on the minute type workouts. So a typical workout that I would do at the house would be a 40 minute EMOM.
00:16:15
Speaker
So every minute on the minute for 40 minutes, um I would do like 15 calories skiing. ah cardio movement. And then I would do like eight to 10 sandbag cleans with a hundred pound sandbag strength movement, but also cardiovascular.
00:16:31
Speaker
And then I would do like 15 calories on the assault bike and then probably a skill. So like six to eight bar muscle ups on minute four, just cycling through that. So basically 10 rounds of those movements.
00:16:44
Speaker
um That's a typical workout that I would do at the house. But yeah, the equipment that I would recommend is some kind of cardio piece of equipment. I I think the the bike and the skier are my two favorites that I use the most.
00:16:56
Speaker
um The sandbag, just because I love doing like sandbag clean, sandbag squats. yeah um You know, if you can fit in some kind of rack so that you can do back squats, bench press, overhead presses, and then a barbell and plates, you know, those pieces of equipment, you're going to do a lot of a lot of good stuff with it.
00:17:14
Speaker
And on the EMOM, just because I'm not familiar, are you targeting, try to get it in 30 seconds? So you have 30 seconds rest. That's kind of the sweet spot for somebody. The goal is, i mean, I could do each of those hard and I could get them done in 30, but it would, I'd have a tough time getting my heart rate down to be able to go onto the next station.
00:17:32
Speaker
So I am targeting about 40. Okay.
00:17:38
Speaker
you know i'm probably at eighty to eighty five percent of my max heart rate once i get to minute twenty so the first twenty minutes should feel pretty manageable and then when you get to twenty you should be like ah maybe i didn't program this right am i goingnna be able to hang on And the last like eight minutes, you should barely be able to hang on.
00:17:57
Speaker
um So yeah, 40 minutes, 40 seconds of work and 20 seconds of rest. So whatever you can get done at about 85% of your max heart rate within 40 seconds, that's how you should tailor it to to your fitness level.
00:18:09
Speaker
And you you do it for 40 minutes. Would other people need to start like 20, 30 and kind of build up or... Yeah. I mean, I started these in the, I think 28 minutes was where I started and I've built a 60 minutes. Um, okay you know, ultimately you can tailor the intensity so you can make it longer. The goal of it is muscular endurance. So, yeah um, you know, if you're making it shorter than I would go at a higher intensity, um, You know, the longer is really working muscular endurance. And if you're going to go less than, say, 12 minutes, then I would recommend something like burpee box jump overs or assault bike sprints where you're just going at a very high, high output for 30 seconds and then resting for at least 30 seconds before doing it again.
00:18:49
Speaker
Because, you know, 12 minutes, you're not going to get a ton of muscular endurance work out of doing that. You're just not going to have gotten in and ah enough reps for the muscular endurance exercise. One thing you've touched on a ah few times is the recovery period between sets.
00:19:03
Speaker
But if we can just kind of expand that more on rest and recovery in general and in sleep and the importance
Rest, Recovery, and the Role of Sleep
00:19:10
Speaker
of sleep. i I know one of your rules is getting at least seven hours of sleep a night.
00:19:15
Speaker
i mean, how do you think about rest and recovery, especially at this stage in your life where it's probably different than when we're in our teens or in our 20s, some of the stuff that we need there?
00:19:26
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm 43. And in 2017, when I moved to Denver, um I joined a facility called Denver Sports Recovery. And they had an infrared sauna and a hot tub and a cold plunge.
00:19:38
Speaker
And I started going there every single night. And by doing that, after about a year period, all of my aches and pains from the Ironman years slowly went away. So I've stuck with that routine. I do that every single night where I'm in my sauna at the house for 20 minutes at around 200 degrees. And then I get in my ice barrel, which is generally in the mid forty s for three to five minutes. And I do three rounds of that every single night religiously from like five until 630.
00:20:05
Speaker
And we also have people that come over during that time period. So I combine that with community time and meeting other people and interacting with other people. So I consider it multitasking without multitasking. My sauna use dates back to like 2012. So I've been doing sauna for 12 years on a regular basis.
00:20:22
Speaker
It's huge, not only for the physical recovery, but, you know, we all are busy and we all rack up, you know, stress and anxiety over time. And for me, it's just kind of like a mental and emotional reset when I do that every single night.
00:20:36
Speaker
You know, if I had a bad day, all of a sudden, I'm just, I feel good again after after doing that routine. So, you know, I would say I do it almost more now for the mental and emotional benefits and the mood boost than I do for the physical benefits. But That is why I do it. It's because i get so many benefits during that 90 minutes just by doing, you know, one thing. Yeah. And one of the things I've seen you share some on is some delight therapy stuff on recovery and injury repair.
00:21:03
Speaker
How long have you been doing that? Yeah. So the the light and laser therapy, again, probably 10 years. um I've used the beds where you know you can lay in a red light therapy bed.
00:21:15
Speaker
And then we have our own red light therapy panels here. And then in the last two years, um I've been using a device called a Kinion Move Plus, which you can put on certain areas and it's right on your skin.
00:21:27
Speaker
And that device I really like. It just... All of it is increasing blood flow to the areas where you have the the red light therapy. So for me, my lower back is generally a pain point. So I'll use that device on my lower back.
00:21:41
Speaker
When I hurt my shoulder mountain biking, I was using it every single day on my shoulder to help bring blood flow to my shoulder to help it recover faster. So yeah, big fan fan of of light and laser therapy, big fan of Normatec. I mean, there's a million different tools. I'm a big fan of just moving throughout the day, having standing desks, walking, you know I'm only sitting if generally I'm in a sauna or I'm on my bike. you know Otherwise, I'm usually at ah at a standing desk. We have no power here today, so I'm outside sitting in ah in a rocking chair.
00:22:10
Speaker
But generally, I would be at my at my standing desk just in an upright position throughout the day. And then obviously eating a single ingredient diet, you know animal-based things that you can find in nature, ah vegetables, plants.
00:22:23
Speaker
um That's going to help you tremendously with um inflammation if you're not eating an inflammatory diet. So I'm cognizant of how I fuel myself throughout the day. And then obviously supplements are icing on the cake, making sure that you're taking the right supplements.
00:22:38
Speaker
For me, a lot of that is based on blood work, just doing my blood work and seeing where I'm deficient or you know if my cortisol is high, what can I do to help balance my cortisol?
Prioritizing Fitness, Nutrition, and Sleep Over Supplements
00:22:46
Speaker
If my testosterone has re- reduce some? What can I do to improve my testosterone levels?
00:22:52
Speaker
I feel like everyone always wants to know what supplements are you taking? And again, I really feel like supplements are just kind of the icing on the cake. If you don't have the exercise dialed in, if you don't have diet dialed in, if you don't have getting, you know, seven, eight plus hours of sleep dialed in, like focus on those things first before any kind of magical supplement fix, even recovery, I would put above supplements. Yeah. I mean, if they're going to be magic pills, they're going to be fitness, nutrition, and sleep, right? Like those are the true magic pills and everything else is icing on the cake, as you said.
00:23:23
Speaker
So on the sleep, you know, another benefit, I believe, of sun and the cold plunge and that rotation is it's supposed to really help in getting into deep sleep and and quality of sleep.
00:23:34
Speaker
yeah Do you, is it the Apple watch? what Do you track your sleep at all or is it? Yeah, I do. I mean, I kind of know I go to bed around the same time every single night. I'm usually in bed by 830 or nine sleeping by 930, 10.
00:23:47
Speaker
And then generally I wake up with no alarm around 6am. So, you know, I'm getting my eight hours of of sleep every night. I do have an Apple watch that I can track it with to kind of see over time how it's being affected based on various lifestyle changes or based on a sleep supplement that I might be trying at the time.
00:24:05
Speaker
um I like doing that sauna routine in the evenings. yeah Yeah. I generally end with a quick, quick dip in the cold plunge, but I like going to bed with my body temperature elevated so that it's working hard to cool itself down because that's part of the natural sleep process is your body cooling so that you fall asleep.
00:24:23
Speaker
And then also I avoid highly... stimulating environments late at night. Red Rocks Amphitheater is eight minutes from our house. We can see the amphitheater from the house. And people always ask, like, oh, do you go to all the shows? And I'm like, I would if they were at like 3 p.m., but unfortunately, they're at 8 p.m.
00:24:38
Speaker
And, you know, the the high stimuli environment, like, it keeps you up at night. So... you know That's another reason why I like doing the sauna cold dinner routine in the evening. And then you know I'll watch some YouTube or listen to a podcast before bed.
00:24:51
Speaker
I just like winding down and just having my nervous system really relaxed when I'm preparing to go to sleep. And you mentioned some supplements, and I think you've referenced in the past, Beam Dream, um maybe to help on sleep. Are there any other specific to sleep that yeah are you kind of your go-tos or you've tested with and seen an impact?
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah, i I love Beam Dream. I do like supplements where there's a behavior associated with them. So for me, Beam Dream helps me get to sleep. So that's helping with the number one recovery tool, sleep. So that's something I take every single day.
00:25:26
Speaker
Creatine, I've always noticed that when I'm taking creatine, I'm generally stronger and able to maintain muscle mass easier. How much creatine do you take? I generally do three to five grams pre-workout, three to five grams post-workout.
00:25:40
Speaker
okay So and anywhere from six to 10 grams each day. um i think five is obviously what is generally recommended. um I also eat steak, so I have other sources where I am getting some creatine in.
00:25:53
Speaker
So creatine is another one that I'm always going to be taking. I mean, I have access to a lot. So my supplement stack is is is quite hefty um just because I have access to it. um Other ones that you know I'm definitely traveling with, I just started working with a new company called NeuroGum. I really, really like their gums. It has natural caffeine, L-theanine, and B vitamins.
00:26:14
Speaker
And it's just kind of this nootropic feeling where you're really dropped in and really energized. So I'll do a half a piece. They recommend two pieces for their serving. um I don't like to overdo it with caffeine because I also have a coffee every morning. So I'll do a half a piece of of the gum pre-morning workout. And then as long as my afternoon workout isn't too late, if it's not past like 1 or 2 p.m., I'll do another half a piece before that afternoon workout.
00:26:38
Speaker
Right. And I've really liked how I feel doing that. um Thesis is another company that has really good nootropic products. They have various blends based on the state you want to be in um Motivation, clarity, energy.
00:26:52
Speaker
Magnesium is another really good one that most Americans are deficient in. So I typically have ah magnesium before I go to bed. I supplement with additional magnesium beyond what's just in the Beam Dream.
00:27:04
Speaker
um I like colostrum. I've taken colostrum for years. That's the first milk a mother produces for her offspring. It's coming from cows, so bovine colostrum from a company called Cowboy Colostrum.
00:27:15
Speaker
um I generally do some type of cover all your bases type supplement, whether it's Athletic Greens or Beam Core. um There's quite a few of them out there, but just something that is going to have you know various vitamins and minerals in it.
00:27:27
Speaker
uh blokes is my multivitamin um they have i have berberine some ashwagandha vitamin d and this was based on my blood work of just like what am i deficient in or you know what am i trying to combat from my from my blood labs on the blood work do you have do you just use a local physician or do you use one of the services and kind of periodically have a cadence that you're checking that Yeah, blokes just today actually came out with at-home testing. So you can just do it yourself. You can prick your finger, you mail it in, and a week later, you get your results back. So that's pretty awesome.
00:28:03
Speaker
Prior to that, they would send a nurse to my house. She would draw blood, and then I would get the results back from them after they got the the blood results back. And how frequently do you do it? I mean, you're, you are dialed in more than the average human, but how often would you check your blood work to dial that stuff in?
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah, I do mine every six months. I would recommend doing it, you know, depending on your age, you know, if you're in your, in your forties, probably once a year, if you're in your thirties, you know, once a year, I still think is good, but Yeah.
00:28:35
Speaker
but i do it every six months just to you know i'm training at a pretty high level and i want to make sure that i'm not tanking my testosterone my cortisol isn't super high from overtraining and at certain times of the year like it's goingnna be you know and when you're ramping up to get to the CrossFit games, you're flirting with being at your peak fitness level and injury and kind of the same with an Ironman.
00:28:57
Speaker
You know, those, that three, two to three weeks prior, you're flirting with injury. You're just, you're going at a volume that isn't really sustainable. so yeah, I like to stay on top of like, what do the biomarkers look like? How do I feel? How am I sleeping? What is my mood like?
00:29:15
Speaker
Do I look forward to workouts or my dreading workouts? Am I looking forward to the day or am I not looking forward to the day? I mean, I really feel like mood is one of those dictators of, you know, you're overtrained or like it's you know ready. let's Let's go. It's go time. I feel good.
00:29:29
Speaker
And ah on sleep, I mean, do you have a particular mattress you use, anything like that, that You seem like someone who puts a lot of thought into these things. I'm really curious. I do. I put in lots of thought. So for sleep, we have a Performa Sleep mattress, which has um this copper technology built into it that helps with with cooling.
00:29:49
Speaker
We have a chili pad. I think they actually just got bought by a company called Sleep.me or Sleep.me, but one of these cooling devices so you can set the temperature of your bed. um We have Attitude sheets that I really like, ah bamboo sheets that are super soft. Yeah.
00:30:05
Speaker
um I use a sleep mask by a company called Dream Recovery. I use earplugs that I just get on Amazon from Heroes, construction-grade earplugs. I have a Dyson fan blowing on me lightly at night.
00:30:18
Speaker
um Some nights I'll use NuCalm, which is an app that you can download that'll put your brain into various brainwaves that can trigger sleep. Yeah. We set our temperature to 63 degrees at night, so it's super cold in the bedroom. Thank God my girlfriend allows that.
00:30:35
Speaker
um We have Lagoon Pillows, which are some of the best pillows I've used. I really like. um Dream Recovery has these amazing silk pillowcases that we have on our pillows.
00:30:46
Speaker
But again, like going back to you know what are the things that really make a difference, avoiding highly stimulating environments late at night. Yeah. I know people are not going to want to hear this, but like going out to nightclubs, going out to bars, hosting parties, like all of these things are going to massively disrupt your ability to to get to sleep. And, you know, I'm fortunate that I love my 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. I don't want to affect that. So, yeah you know, i I wind down, you know, 7.30, 8 p.m. every night to make sure that I'm sleeping. So rinse and repeat. I can get up and have another epic 6 a.m. until 6 p.m. the next day.
00:31:23
Speaker
Yeah, we've built a really unnatural societal life, right? That we should be way more front-loaded in our socializing, in our food consumption. Everything should be far more front-loaded and we've shifted it. And because of our circadian rhythm, it's caused all sorts of downstream effects.
00:31:41
Speaker
Now, you you touched a lot on how you think of fueling your body, right? when you're When you're working like you do, it's incredibly important. And that principle of single ingredient food, you know, people talk about animal based or plant based, whatever. Well, you know, sugar is plant based.
00:32:01
Speaker
that That doesn't make it good. But if you're going to the unprocessed single ingredient, That's your base. And then you can kind of supplement on top from there. ah What are your kind of core principles above and beyond? This is where I'm starting.
00:32:17
Speaker
For me, protein is the number one macro that I'm looking to hit each day. Carbs would be number two, fat would be number three. And I build my calories throughout the day. So I eat light during the day because I've noticed that if I eat too heavy, it affects my energy levels and my mental clarity.
00:32:36
Speaker
So you know I eat just enough so that I'm not hangry throughout the day. And then I have a larger meal for dinner because I don't need to be on or super energized in the in the evening after that meal.
00:32:46
Speaker
But you need those calories because you need to refuel. But I need the calories, so I have to get it in somewhere. So, I mean, a typical day for me is um in the morning, I'm generally just having coffee. Maybe I'll have a banana and some honey if it's going to be a two-hour training session with heavy lifting and multiple conditioning sessions.
00:33:04
Speaker
ah Maybe I'll have some kind of bar, like I really like Morton, which is just like fast carbs. um And then after that morning workout, I will do either four or five eggs, chicken sausage and rice or fruit and honey, or I'll do some kind of big smoothie.
00:33:22
Speaker
And then after my mountain biking session in the afternoon, I'll do something very similar, either some more eggs, fruit and honey, or I'll do a smoothie or a smoothie bowl. And then at night, I'll do about a pound of of meat.
00:33:35
Speaker
Generally, red meat, five days a week, two nights out of the week, it would be chicken or fish. And then for carbs, I usually either do potatoes or rice. And then I'll have some kind of veggie, tomatoes, asparagus, broccoli, um something generally that I'm either steaming or also putting on the smoker with the meat that I'm cooking.
00:33:54
Speaker
um That works for me. um You know, I get in my one gram per pound of body weight by ah doing that in protein. And i feel good day in and day out. And I'm able to maintain muscle mass, even with a pretty high level of of cardio.
00:34:09
Speaker
I'm imagining from what you're saying, when you're doing the smoothie instead of eggs, you're adding a protein powder to that. am. Yeah, I'm doing a human improvement protein powder generally or some kind of ah animal-based protein powder. Another good one is a company called Noble out of Austin, Texas. I really like their product. So yeah, I will do protein powder. I'll use slate milk, which is 20 grams of protein in ah I'm generally getting 40 to 50 grams of protein in that smoothie.
00:34:37
Speaker
um And then I'll add a banana. I'll add some frozen blueberries. I'll add some nut butter of some kind for some fat. um That's it. pretty simple Yeah. So one one of the things you kind of touched on um is when you're doing the sauna, when you're doing the cold plunge, it's part of socializing too, right? You know, i I had for years when I would go to the gym,
00:35:02
Speaker
It was, i have this set time, my headphones are in, I'm locked into work, I'm just here to be efficient. Even if I saw people I knew, don't talk to them. And then in recent years, learned much more about the importance of that social connection and the need for those social interactions.
00:35:16
Speaker
And so deliberately put the headphones aside and engage in the conversations and and make it more social. can I know that was, again one one of the core principles you had posted is around trying to work out with other people that have shared values and doing that recovery with other people.
00:35:31
Speaker
How else do you kind of bake that in to your life, knowing how important that is, not just to you, but to
Community's Impact on a Healthy Lifestyle
00:35:39
Speaker
all of us. We're social beings. Yeah, I mean, we designed our house to be this community wellness oasis.
00:35:46
Speaker
um And that was very intentional. Like we wanted people to come to us and we wanted to bond with people in in ways where we could share our passions and also through, you know, discomfort. you know, sitting in a sauna at a really hot temperature, you know, you form fast bonds with people, sitting in cold water, doing Ironmans, doing hard workouts with people.
00:36:06
Speaker
Like there's this earned respect that you get and you also get really vulnerable really quick in those scenarios. Your endorphins are racing and conversations go deep really quick. They're not surface level.
00:36:16
Speaker
So that's what I like so much about those activities and building community around those activities. You know, if we weren't hosting, if we if we didn't have this place to be able to draw people into,
00:36:28
Speaker
um joining a triathlon club, joining a run club, joining a pickleball club, joining a CrossFit gym, um just joining these various clubs where you're going to have chance encounters with like-minded people that have shared passions and, you know, joining a gym that has a sauna in it so you can meet people in the sauna.
00:36:43
Speaker
um I would recommend all of those things so that you're combining wellness with community. You know, you touch on it and kind of facetiously early on about the the multitasking without multitasking. And so, you know, when we often think about multitasking, it's I'm doing email while I'm on the phone or I'm in the Zoom meeting while I'm responding to something else.
00:37:03
Speaker
And That mentally we can't multitask, but to habit stack positive things of having a meal with friends, um doing the fitness and movement with friends, doing the recovery with friends, that 100% we can multitask and tick multiple of those healthy boxes.
00:37:24
Speaker
And it's amazing the example and the role modeling you set of crafting a life that enables you to do that and kind of builds around doing exactly that.
00:37:35
Speaker
When you talked about the the benefits of the sauna, of the cold plunge, of the things you do, you said, actually, ah there's a lot of physical benefits, but maybe the most impactful for you is this mindset and what it does for your mindset.
00:37:50
Speaker
Are there any other things you do? it It seems like you you get up pretty early, you get outside, you get that natural sunlight. But what are the things that you deliberately do to try to invest in that ah mindset, managing the stress? Because you're putting your body under a lot of stress.
00:38:06
Speaker
And in in some of these races, competitions, you're probably putting your mind under a lot of stress too. How do you counterbalance that at other times? Yeah, I mean, so having that 60 to 90 minutes of mountain biking built into my day every day, i consider that my moving meditation.
00:38:23
Speaker
i might be doing it with other people, but I am in my own world. I'm riding my bike by myself. I'm not having conversations. I'm often listening to one song on repeat. It's a skill-based activity with risk associated with it. So you have to be completely in the moment. You have to be present.
00:38:39
Speaker
I'm doing it in nature with the sun beating down on me. So again, another one of these things where it's multitasking without multitasking. And I really think about everything in life in that way is how can I get the most bang for my buck if I'm spending time doing something?
00:38:54
Speaker
um Newcom is another one of those things that I've really enjoyed doing lately. If I'm feeling stressed out, Or if I'm doing things that are really taxing on my nervous system, like I was in Kauai last month with Laird Hamilton doing the XPT training, which was underwater pool training, you know, oxygen deprivation, which is not something I'm used to.
00:39:14
Speaker
I'm not used to holding my breath and being very uncomfortable holding my breath underwater. So my nervous system was super taxed from from doing that. And you know every single night I was doing this new calm rescue mode for about 30 minutes just to like reset my nervous system and to get out of that fight or flight mode and get back to that rest and digest calm sense of being.
00:39:36
Speaker
So I'll do that. Every other week I get a deep tissue massage. Again, that's another thing where it's equal parts physical. mental, and emotional. It's just 90 minutes where I'm not on my phone. People don't have access to me. No one's messaging me.
00:39:49
Speaker
And i can just kind of let my mind do what it wants, not what is, you know, what I'm not executing. So I like having various breaks either built into my week, my day, where my mind isn't just executing. It just is free to, to, you know, make something of all of the experiences I've had, the people I've met, the conversations I've had just allows it to marinate. And I feel like after those sessions or even during those sessions, that's where I often get my best ideas. It's when I'm running along the ocean, it's when I'm biking in the mountains, it's when I'm getting that deep tissue massage.
00:40:26
Speaker
It's even that like 30 minute haircut where I'm not on my phone and I'm not think I'm not, you know, stimulus, there's no stimulus, uh, hitting me during that moment. I feel like I get great ideas when I'm getting my hair cut. So yeah, make sure that you're taking these little breaks throughout the day or, you you know, every week where you're really intentional about just resetting your nervous system and also just recharging your social battery.
00:40:49
Speaker
On that, the the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous system, do you do any of the practices to try to stimulate the vagus nerve to help that? and You know, I've heard of ear massaging or humming or some of the eye control stuff.
00:41:02
Speaker
Are there any that you've played with? I mean, the only two that I play with are hot, cold. Obviously, the the cold water is definitely doing that when you're fully submerging. And then NuCom is definitely doing that when I'm using that NuCom app. But I haven't done any of the any of the other ones.
00:41:18
Speaker
Breathwork is something that I need to get better and more consistent about doing. um Historically, I have not been great about implementing breathwork into my routine. I'll do it, you know, if I'm at a wellness retreat or if I get invited to do breath work with someone, i'll I'll always do it. But it's not a part of my daily wellness routine. But I do think that, you know, just using breath work, you can you can control your nervous system.
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Eric, I know you're probably anxious to to see if your power is back on. I know you've been out for a while. You are an absolute ah just wealth of knowledge, and I can't thank you enough for everything you've shared. Not just today this podcast, but in In social, you kind of live this open book life of here's the stuff I'm working on. Here's the stuff I'm doing that we can all really learn from.
00:42:06
Speaker
ah Before we go, is there anything you want to share with our listeners where they can find you? ah of course, we'll have it all in the show notes as well. Sure. I mean, best place is Instagram, my website, erikkinman.com.
00:42:20
Speaker
um Email list is called the Movement Memo. You can get to it through the link in my bio in my Instagram. um Lately, I've been sharing these various guides around healthy eating supplements.
00:42:31
Speaker
Endurance training, a lot of sleep is going to be the next guide coming out. Money is going to be a guide coming out really soon. How I look at um monetizing lifestyle, monetizing passions, how I invest, how I invest in early stage wellness companies. So if you join the email list, you can have access to all of those different guides that um we're pumping out on a weekly basis now.
00:42:52
Speaker
Amazing. Eric, this has been a lively conversation. Thank you so much. Is there anyone before we part that you think we should also be talking to that we should have on the show that could share ah really powerful message with our listeners?
00:43:04
Speaker
Oh, wow. Lots. I have a good buddy in ah in Boulder, Colorado, who would be a good person to chat with, Mike and Idala. um You should definitely chat with him. He's training for the Leadman right now, which is... okay all of the different Leadville races throughout the summer.
00:43:18
Speaker
um He's also a mindset coach. He's a freak athlete and just an incredible human being. So he would be great. Okay. Mike, I will, ah if it's okay, follow up with you to see if you can make that intro. Yeah. Thank you so much, Eric. You, you are a role model in so many ways. I just can't thank you enough. Thank you.
00:43:34
Speaker
Thanks brother. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of the Home of Healthspan podcast. Remember, you can always find the products, practices, and routines mentioned by today's guests, as well as many other healthspan role models on Alively.com.
00:43:48
Speaker
Enjoy a lively day.