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Biohacking Supplements for a Longer Healthspan with Melanie Avalon - E50
31 Plays23 days ago
Ever wondered what the daily routine of a serious biohacker actually looks like? What are their strict do's and don'ts? What do they recommend for people seeking to live longer, healthier lives?
In this episode, we talk to someone who's turned self-optimization into both a science and art. If you've felt overwhelmed by conflicting advice, or wasted money on trendy products that don't deliver, we'll offer a transparent look at what actually works.
Melanie Avalon is a biohacker, podcaster, author, influencer, and entrepreneur known for her deep research into health optimization. As the host of The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, she has interviewed a diverse range of experts across the nutrition and longevity spectrum. Her AvalonX supplement line was created out of frustration with the lack of transparency and purity in the supplement market, marking her shift from researcher and communicator to product innovator. Melanie’s work has been featured across mainstream media, and she is recognized for bringing scientific rigor and nuance to everyday wellness practices, making her a trusted guide for those looking to improve their healthspan.
“I'm not about all the supplements all the time and I'm not about supplements replacing food. I'm about them filling in the gap and then optimizing.” - Melanie Avalon
In this episode you will learn:
- Why Melanie started her own supplement line, AvalonX, and the challenges she sees in the supplement industry regarding purity, fillers, and transparency.
- How Melanie approaches nutrition as a biohacker, including her protein-forward diet, thoughts on supplementation, and lessons learned from interviewing the full spectrum of dietary experts.
- The daily routines and exercise habits Melanie uses for improved healthspan, including her experience with fasting, movement, and optimizing muscle mass.
- The role of sleep in her wellness protocol, and how she supports rest and recovery using tools like blue light blocking, sauna, mouth taping, and wearables.
- Insights on managing stress and optimizing mindset, from practical breathwork and tracking devices to the importance of reframing and individual experimentation.
- Why social connection, self-knowledge, and individualized approaches are essential for sustaining changes, along with Melanie’s advice for anyone starting their own health journey.
Resources
- Connect with Melanie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melanieavalon/
- Find out more about Melanie’s work and offerings: https://melanieavalon.com/
- Listen to Melanie podcast, ‘The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast’: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-melanie-avalon-biohacking-podcast/id1474706111
- Listen to the podcast Melanie co-hosts, ‘The Intermittent Fasting Podcast’: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-intermittent-fasting-podcast/id1228755008
- Shop all the products Melanie mentions in this episode: https://alively.com/products/melanie-avalon
This podcast was produced by the team at Zapods Podcast Agency:
https://www.zapods.com
Find the products, practices, and routines discussed on the Alively website:
https://alively.com/
Recommended
Transcript
The Supplement Market Challenges
00:00:00
Speaker
The supplement appointment market is very murky and there's a lot of lack of regulation on things. And there's also the actual ingredients that you're getting. There's often fillers and lubricants in them that can be benign, but they also can be problematic. And especially for people who are really sensitive to things like me, it was hard to find things that didn't have all these other things that when you, you just want like the main ingredient that you want.
Introduction to Home of Health Spam
00:00:26
Speaker
This is the Home of Health Spam podcast, where we profile health and wellness role models, sharing their stories and the tools, practices, and routines they use to live a lively life.
Guest Introduction: Melanie Avalon
00:00:40
Speaker
Melanie Avalon, it is great to see you after many, many back and forth, and I will do my best to not make this a Taylor Swift fan club podcast episode. Oh my goodness. We could, Andrew, we could just like, this could be a Taylor Swift episode. I'd be down.
00:00:56
Speaker
i think every episode could be a Taylor Swift episode. you know I always thought it would be fun once a year if it was a musical day and like your whole life was just a musical, you know how sitcoms will do that for one episode a season. Like that would be so fun for the day and just have a Taylor Swift theme musical day of your life.
00:01:15
Speaker
And just like seeing your life. Yeah. Yeah. We should do that. We should orchestrate that. I think we could film it. Forget flash mobs. Like I know musical day. Yes. I'm down. So I'm there.
00:01:26
Speaker
Let's do it. All right. So very, very different beginning
Melanie's Background and Biohacking Journey
00:01:29
Speaker
than many others. But Melanie, before we get into all the things and you really have all the things, how would you describe yourself? I'm a lively biohacker, podcaster, author, influencer, and entrepreneur.
00:01:42
Speaker
And she is she she does all of these things very, very well. And we will get into that. It's it's incredibly impressive. If you have not listened to Melanie's biohacking podcast, I will say she has the top guests in the world. and which clearly I do because Melanie is here today.
00:01:59
Speaker
But not only does she have the top guest, but every single one of them says, oh my God, I've never been on a podcast where the host is as well-researched as you. mean, Melanie goes in to the footnotes and then the studies in the footnotes and reads the studies and comes back with questions are like, wow, yeah, I've never seen anybody go to that depth.
00:02:17
Speaker
So Melanie really, really knows what she's talking about and why I'm so excited to have her here today to talk to us. So thank you. First of all, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for being the awesome human that you are.
00:02:27
Speaker
Thank you for the support you give me. So for listeners, Andrew, he'll like text me. He'll like listen to what an episode and like comment on what he loved about it. And it's just so amazing. I love that you're into all these things and I'm just, I'm all about it. So thank you.
00:02:42
Speaker
Yeah. and And you are all about it. I mean, the the first time we met in person, you brought me spirulina. You brought me all sorts of good things because you were literally in it. I mean, when you say entrepreneur, there are many, many different flavors to that in your different businesses. But one is your whole supplement line, Avalon X, right?
00:03:01
Speaker
Yes, indeed. It's funny. The word entrepreneur, um it took me a while to embrace it. Like I never saw myself as an entrepreneur, but then I was looking at everything I was doing and I was like, oh, like I guess I'm an entrepreneur.
00:03:13
Speaker
And then I had a ah piece published in Entrepreneur and I was like, okay, I guess ah guess we are an entrepreneur now. Yeah. Actually, it was creating the supplement line that really made me feel like one because that was my first physical product creation.
00:03:26
Speaker
And it's been it's been a whirlwind and a blast. i'm be yeah i Well, first of all, because i'm supplements are such a huge part of the the health sphere and I have a lot of opinions about them. And i I really couldn't find anything that would meet my criteria. So I was like, I'll just make my own.
00:03:43
Speaker
So here we are. Like ah not being in plastic. So can you talk about some of the things that you try to incorporate when you were doing that?
Issues with Supplement Quality
00:03:51
Speaker
Yeah. So the supplement market is very murky and there's a lot of lack of of regulation on things. And there's also the actual ingredients that you're getting. There's often fillers and lubricants in them that can be benign, but they also can be problematic. And especially for people who are really sensitive to things like me, it was hard to find things that didn't have palmitates or steroids or rice or all these other things that when you, you just want like the main ingredient that you want.
00:04:20
Speaker
So that was the first thing was the fillers and the lubricants and then actually testing the ingredients for purity and potency because really it comes down to trust. You're just trusting these brands that what is in the bottle is what they say. There are some shocking studies, especially on like ah melatonin supplements. They looked at, there's one study where they looked at, i don't know how many brands, I don't know, dozens of brands.
00:04:42
Speaker
It was like a one hundred X difference. Yeah. and It could have one hundredth of what it said it did or a hundred times what it said it did. It's, it's Crazy. And melatonin is a hormone. So it's you can't just like be that casual with having wrong amount.
00:04:56
Speaker
Some of them even had other sleep-promoting ingredients. And then like they said it was just melatonin, but it actually had like other things in there that were relaxing to... which is just really frustrating. Well, and it's not a one and done too. So, I mean, recently a couple of things came up, ah you know, a lot of people were pushing Nordic naturals for the omega threes, fish oil. And then i think Rhonda Patrick had it and just like, yeah, when I tested four years ago, it was great, but then they couldn't keep up with production and now it's oxidizing. And like, here's where it is now.
00:05:25
Speaker
I can't vouch for it. Like I could four years ago. And right now, I don't know if you've been following, there's a very well influencer promoted protein bar that I bought an inordinate amount of that after they launched, they went and changed the ingredient to move to cheaper ingredients and and did a bunch on the formulation that wasn't what they launched with in the story they told. So just because maybe you did the vetting initially on some products doesn't mean they stick to their guns on this stuff, which is scary.
00:05:54
Speaker
Okay, I'm dying to know which one it is. I will tell you after we separate. Okay. It's funny. That's so ironic because i feel like with my brand, it's the opposite. Like I want to launch with it amazing. And then I just want to improve from there.
00:06:07
Speaker
So it's really upsetting that it would be the opposite for people where they would, you know, create it, get the branding, get the loyalty, and then sneakily switch out things. And with supplements, I mean, obviously the idea is they supplement on top of, and in addition to whatever the base is.
00:06:23
Speaker
And what I love about your show and your approach is, i mean, you get the experts on all
Melanie's Nutritional Philosophy
00:06:29
Speaker
sides. so Like I've listened to Dr. Greger on your show, who we've also had, I've listened to Paul Saladino on your show. So we go from whole food plant-based carnivore. And maybe later we throw some berries and like, it's an evolving target over there.
00:06:41
Speaker
And yeah, As you speak to these people, but then also do the deep research you do, where have you landed on how you approach nutrition, both in your base, as well as the the supplementation on top of that?
00:06:55
Speaker
Yeah. so you touched on so many things and nailed it. um Well, to address the supplementation part first, since that's what we're talking about. um So I feel like in the and our dream world, our musical world where we're like singing and everything, ah we would get all of our nutrients from food. Like we wouldn't need supplements, but with the modern farming system and and the food quality that we're so exposed to, it can be hard to get all the nutrients you need. So I do think supplementation definitely has a role, especially for some key nutrients.
00:07:25
Speaker
And then on top of that, for people in pursuit of longevity, there's quite a few supplements that are, you're not going to get them in that concentrated form from food that may have really beneficial effects for that.
00:07:37
Speaker
So I am pro supplementation. also feel like I'm not about like all the supplements all the time. And I'm not about supplements replacing food. I'm about them filling in the gap and then optimizing.
00:07:50
Speaker
So that's where I land on supplements. For the food question, i am so haunted by this because... like you just touched on, there are so many opinions that make very valid cases for everything. And everything seems to work for everybody, not everything for everybody, but all the things seem to work for some people at some time.
00:08:09
Speaker
So I think where I've landed, um well, a, like you said, I like integrating people with all different opinions and, seeing what resonates, seeing what tracks and lands and, and, and we're fine. What works for me? Cause do think we're very individual when it comes to diet. Like I know you and I have really different diets. Like I eat, we're not really well, we have some similar tenants that I can like touch on, but cause you're more on the like plant based side of things, right? Like you eat.
00:08:36
Speaker
pounds of meat. I don't like pounds of meat. Yeah. So, um, but I think where we overlap and I, and I do think there are a few central tenants I've landed on that seem to appear in all the different diets, which is the role of whole foods, not the store, but like ah non-processed foods.
00:08:54
Speaker
yeah Um, I think that's a great, you know, first place to start. Um, and within that, I do think protein intake is really important. i'm i'm I'm like laughing and pausing because I'm haunted by the question of ideal protein intake.
00:09:09
Speaker
You and I have talked about this too, I think. And mTOR activation. yeah Like it's, it's, I don't know. Right. I'm totally with you on this. You interview people or talk to people like, you know, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon and and like you said, Paul Saladino and a lot of people in the the keto world, the paleo world, and they're all very pro protein intake.
00:09:30
Speaker
And then you interview people like you're saying like Dr. Michael Greger, Neil Bernard, like the more vegan, like even Walter Longo. And they're all about lower protein intake for longevity. When I interviewed Dr. Michael Greger recently, he was making the case that protein is the single, like the single thing most correlated to aging, like, you know, more protein. and I think adequate protein intake is super important.
00:09:58
Speaker
um I think... like supporting muscle is so key for metabolism, supporting metabolic health, all of those things. um I think there's a problem with a lot of the high protein studies looking at negative effects with longevity because,
00:10:13
Speaker
If you're just doing like correlational data and studying that people on high protein intakes are probably eating like a high calorie intake. Like if you're just looking at a general population, there's not a lot of people doing like high protein, low calorie or like high protein
Protein Intake and Aging Debate
00:10:27
Speaker
with fasting. It's if they're high protein and you're just looking at the population.
00:10:31
Speaker
And on the fasting you do OMAD, right? You're, you're a one meal a day. Yeah. Yeah. And so where I've landed for me personally is fasting every day. So reducing, amateur, which is a, you know, a growth pathway stimulated by protein intake, reducing IGF one, stimulating AMPK, which helps support longevity during the fastest day and combat all of that.
00:10:53
Speaker
And then in my one meal a day eating window, which is around four or five hours, i eat a really high protein diet. Oh, I just tell you this. I'm having, did I tell you my results or did you listen yet? Has it aired? Have you heard me talk about my eight, my true diagnostic results?
00:11:08
Speaker
Is that the, that was the gut health one where like scallops showed up and. No, so that's, there's so many tests. That is a Victus 88. Yeah. yeah The Victus, that's, that's the one that I listened to before the one today with Ian Clark. No, I don't know if I heard this other one. Okay. I don't think it's, i don't know if it's aired.
00:11:24
Speaker
I don't think it has. Like I said, I've been haunted by this protein question for so long. I literally ask it to every guest I think might have an opinion on it. um Their thoughts. Because I feel like i want I want to have like an anti-aging diet and lifestyle. And am my am I eating too much protein is my question.
00:11:40
Speaker
So I interviewed on the Intermittent Fasting Podcast, Dr. Matt Dawson. He is the founder of Wild Health as well as founder or CEO of Wild Health and a company called True Diagnostic.
00:11:54
Speaker
They make three, i should introduce you to him. I should definitely introduce He would love to come on this show. His company provides access to three epigenetic age tests One is made with Harvard, one's with Duke, and one's with another college.
00:12:08
Speaker
And they look at your epigenetic aging. So you know how are you actually aging, your biological age, all those things. And they're very data-driven. I had him on the show. He told me my results were some of the best he's ever seen. And he's like the CEO founder of the company.
00:12:22
Speaker
So I feel so much better about my high protein intake. It must be okay. Because epigenetically, I'm not aging that fast. Yeah. I mean, we'll get to this when we do the mindset side too, but I was having a conversation last night, the the very Ellen Langer approach that it's the story we tell is way more impactful than the thing, right?
00:12:40
Speaker
If you believe cleaning these hotel rooms or exercise, you end up burning more calories and lowering your glucose levels and all this. stuff Whereas if you believe you're not, then you end up in a totally different space. So if you believe what you're doing is healthy,
00:12:54
Speaker
it's quite possible your body is processing in a different way. And that's a good chunk of the story ah right there. So I'm curious, you eat a bunch of meat. I've heard like scallops reference and others. You make sure you get turmeric in there. I hear you eat a lot of turmeric, ah blueberries. Like what, what is in that four to five hour window? What, what are the foods? I understand they're whole foods, but what kind of foods are you getting in there?
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah. So you nailed it um pretty well. um Also one really quick comment on the thing about the mindset. Literally just yesterday, the one of the books I'm reading right now is called Ageless Aging. And she was talking, it's about, it's focused on like women aging and um ageism, like the concept of like being prejudiced against people for their age, but they've done a study and your perspective on aging actually influences your aging.
00:13:44
Speaker
So if you're like, i could say if you don't have a negative perspective of aging, it's like beneficial for your aging. so Ellen longer has ah ah Langer has a new book out on this, but she she's the one that did the studies where she took like these 80 year olds and put them in the summer camp environment where this was pre-internet where you could just like get a Spotify playlist, but like
Music and Brain Health
00:14:06
Speaker
all the music from when they were growing up, all the posters, everything about, and by the end they were acting like 12 year olds.
00:14:11
Speaker
These people who could barely walk all this, they were carrying their bags off the bus. Like they all, it was completely transformative. And it's, it makes you question how much is this story we tell ourselves of what age actually means and is.
00:14:24
Speaker
I love it so much. um Also, also to that point, one of the other studies, she was saying that listening to younger music or current popular music apparently is really good for your brain and aging. So Taylor Swift... You nailed that. Here we go.
00:14:41
Speaker
Bring it all for full circle. Okay. So I love fish and seafood. I think it has going back to the, um, like an ideal protein source. I think fish is amazing for that, for the, you touched earlier on the, the Nordic naturals and omega-3s. So getting that omega-3, omega-6 balance,
00:14:58
Speaker
the um like the amino acid profile, like the rich in glycine. The problem is fish and our our oceans are so polluted. so And I've had mercury toxicity in the past.
00:15:08
Speaker
So I am neurotic about only eating certain types of fish. Neurotic. Because I think people... like people see a piece of fish on their plate and they don't realize just how, cause you don't see mercury. So you don't realize like how much mercury it can be in a piece of fish.
00:15:24
Speaker
Um, so I eat lot of so like shellfish, scallops, shrimp, and then i and this brand of fish called the better fish they have at a Costco is a barramundi. Normally barramundi would be higher mercury, but they, they, uh, farm raise it, which I have like Thoughts on that, but they sustainably raise it in tanks and the majority of fish get mercury from their diet. So if they're feeding the fish, this feed that's mercury fee free, they actually test their fish to be free of mercury. So ate that.
00:15:51
Speaker
Um, and then salmon, um I actually do prefer farm salmon over wild salmon because of the mercury content. If it's sustainable, get it at whole foods.
00:16:02
Speaker
Um, so a lot of fish and stuff and then chicken, beef, lots of cucumbers, blueberries, ginger, It's a lot of food. It takes a long time to eat all of it. Yeah. But I mean, that's where they they do say, right? You're trying to get 30 different kinds of foods in a week. And i think we're probably pretty similar and we eat consistently the same thing, but you get so many different things. Like my salad has four different kinds of lettuce, plus pepper, plus tomatoes, plus cucumber, plus flaxseed, plus after listening to Dr. Greg on your show, wheat germ and like all the things. So each salad has 23 ingredients in it.
00:16:37
Speaker
Plus the turmeric. Like I sit there and shave it and put the cracked pepper on. So getting all the things into one. So it, it's a lot, but I think having that variety is important. No, I, it's funny. I'm, I struggle, I struggle with this because i I, don't, I like don't break out much around out like outside of what i eat. So I feel like I could have more variety at the same time.
00:17:01
Speaker
I feel like, I don't know, like when I get my blood panels, everything looks good. I feel nourished. I crave certain things at certain times, like certain proteins. So I do, I do feel good about it. And when I was interviewing um the like coauthors or the mind diet, which is like the the diet most studied for, i don't know if you listened to that episode. two's right The lady whose mom started it and.
00:17:22
Speaker
Yes. Yes. i I was so excited for that episode because I've been researching the mind diet for so long. And so that was really an amazing interview, but I was pretty good on their test of like all the foods to support your brain, like blueberries, red wine, like all these. And and I've since added a a little bit of olive oil. So yeah, I feel i feel good.
00:17:42
Speaker
So but I do want to talk about the supplements, but maybe before we talk about which ones you you do, you you mentioned the mercury toxicity in the past, and then supplements to fill gaps.
Importance of Regular Blood Work
00:17:55
Speaker
Do you do periodic blood work or check other markers to try to identify what those gaps are to figure out, oh, I need d this time of year, or I need to supplement with whatever it is to to top things up?
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah. so I do, i love getting regular blood work. I think it's so helpful, especially it's also really fun, especially if you do follow like you and I do like a I don't want to control, but you know, we were really conscious about what we put in our mouths. And so for me, I can really see, i can see how things change on my blood work. And I find that just fascinating when it comes to gaps. There are a few things that I think people um often are deficient in.
00:18:36
Speaker
So I pay attention to them and I encourage other people to as well. So that's things like magnesium and for testing that you want to test RBC magnesium, not just blood magnesium.
00:18:47
Speaker
Cause you want to see what's actually is like in the actual cell vitamin d Um, like you're mentioning certain times of the year that that would be something to look at. um, i I actually, when I interviewed that Dr. Matt Dawson and did his wild health test, which I really liked his service because he, uh, it was a full blood panel, also a genetic panel. And they gave you a really like nuanced interpretation of where you were at and how it compared to your genetics and your epigenetics. was, was great.
00:19:14
Speaker
That made me realize that I should be supplementing methylated folate, for example, because of my like MTHFR, uh, mutation leading to homocysteine issues. Which by the way, don't like 35 40% of us have that because i have the same, right? I feel like it's very high percentage people have that.
00:19:32
Speaker
Yeah. And it's something I'm glad you mentioned that because i I've been really familiar with that for over a decade. I think, i think probably found out about it like a decade ago. And I wrote this blog post. I went down the rabbit hole. I thought I was like cursed and And at the same time, so it is something a lot of people have. So people should address it.
00:19:49
Speaker
B is something, it is something a lot of people have. i don't think it's, necessarily as like, I don't think it should be fear mongered the way it potentially is. Um, it's very actionable and it's also like your methylation is driven by your overall diet and lifestyle. So basically, yes, I take, I take, I do blood work to see where I'm at.
00:20:10
Speaker
Um, like in my current supplement line, I launched with Sarah peptase. Uh, did I give you that? you doing That's a, that's a silkworm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:21
Speaker
Yes. And so that's something you're not going test for. But basically it's a proteolytic enzyme created by the Japanese silkworm. You take it in the fasted state and it goes into your bloodstream and it breaks down problematic proteins because in the silkworm, it breaks down the silkworm's cocoon.
00:20:37
Speaker
So what's great about it is that it breaks down non-living tissue, not living tissue. So when we take it, it basically breaks down non-living dead dysfunctional proteins.
00:20:48
Speaker
And a lot of health conditions are related to your immune system reacting to these protein buildups. So it will clear your sinuses. It will help with inflammation, helps with ah cholesterol, amyloid plaque, although that's a whole tangent, but um so many things, but that's something you're not going to really like test for on a blood test. You're just going to notice how you feel.
Benefits of NAD Supplementation
00:21:10
Speaker
So some things you have to be more intuitive with, um or like NAD, supplementation, for example. um Lots of debates on that, but that is something that I like i just feel a difference when I use an NAD batch, especially if I'm going out and drinking a little bit more like the next day. i really notice a big difference with that, for example.
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah. i mean, you connected us with IonLayer, so they're they're now on Alively. And I... e Based on your recommendation, I mean, I tried it. Lude did it in the first night. His HRV went up like 60%.
00:21:42
Speaker
I don't think it was psychosomatic because I didn't expect this to be a result of it. yeah One of our other prior guests, Kelly Kruger-Brooks, she called me up while we were eudaimonia and said...
00:21:54
Speaker
You saved my life. Like, what are you talking about she said, well, I had this eight hour TikTok live session and those kill me and it was awful. But I remembered you told me about these NAD patches. I put one of those on. I woke up and I feel amazing today. And it's great because I have to do another one tomorrow.
00:22:08
Speaker
Like, wow, there's really something there. So whether it's psychosomatic or not, I mean, who cares? If you feel better for something like that, even if there's not a marker and you wake up and you're like, yeah i feel great.
00:22:21
Speaker
That seems like a win to me. I know. I definitely think so. the Literally the only thing for the who cares is the ah price point. The price, yeah. the and ah The barrier to entry with that. wonder with all this though, if overtime price should go down on all this stuff, I would think.
00:22:36
Speaker
I think so. um Hopefully with the NAD for sure. And it's it's funny. So there's precursors to NAD. Do we need to like define what this is for listeners? Oh, yeah, probably. Because i I think early episodes, I would reference like CGMs and people were like, I don't even know what that is. So yeah, it's probably if we're going to use acronyms, probably helpful.
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah. So NAD, it's basically your, it's a master metabolic coenzyme in your body. It's involved in essentially everything, like every energetic process in your body requires NAD. There's this whole NAD, NADH like ratio.
00:23:12
Speaker
It's very complicated, but the point is, um There's a lot of theories that aging, disease, all of these things are related to reduced NAD. Things like stress, alcohol, all of that will reduce your NAD as well.
00:23:25
Speaker
So you can boost your NAD levels directly with NAD if you use patches or do injections or do IVs. You can also use precursors like NMN or NR to take those orally and then they'll convert to NAD.
00:23:40
Speaker
And the whole world, the whole world, like camp is very debatey, like that, like especially, especially there's like the NMN camp and the NAD and the NR camp. In any case, I noticed a ton personally from the NAD patches and NMN has been like the FDA tried to like take it off the market, but it recently came back on. So I'm hoping I can make an NMN supplement soon. Maybe we shall see.
00:24:08
Speaker
Yeah, I took Inamind for years and I saw some other research and it was questionable. So I ended up stopping on that one personally. But I did start the patches per you. Oh, yay. No, i love I love those patches. i I really do feel them. I really do.
00:24:21
Speaker
Yeah. So, I mean, speaking of like feeling them, the energy side. So one's how we fuel our body. What about how you move your body? What does your fitness movement routine look like kind of day to day, week to week?
00:24:35
Speaker
Yeah, so... I think movement is so important. We are so sedentary today and it's correlated to, so and probably causational, but related to so many health issues. It's just not good.
00:24:50
Speaker
I also, okay. I think some people kind of going back to the diet, which I don't know if I actually said this with the diet piece. So I'll say it now, which is, i really think people have to find the diet that works for them.
00:25:01
Speaker
yeah, You got to do you. I don't think, I do not think there's one right diet. If there was one right diet, I think we would have found it by now and it would work for everybody. Like all the time. Even for you, I'm not sure it's static, right? Depending on seasons of life and needs, like you may build reactivity. There's a certain big supplement that I took religiously daily for years and then I developed an allergy to it. So that's not a thing I take anymore, right? So the we change, not just, not every person's the same, but we're not the same necessarily year to year either.
00:25:32
Speaker
I'm so glad you said that. And I think something else common that happens with a lot of people is they will make, especially they'll go from like the standard American diet and then they'll adopt one of these one of these diets. So carnivore, vegan, something.
00:25:45
Speaker
And they'll experience so many health benefits that because of what they're cutting out, because of maybe nutrients they're missing. So then they confuse that diet being the answer with all of the little factors that changed by adopting that diet. So then when it stopped, if it stops working or if they need to adjust,
00:26:05
Speaker
they think the diet they're on is the answer. So they're like hesitant to adjust. So I love what you said. I think like changing with the seasons, listening to your body, being open to change is so important.
00:26:17
Speaker
So I think there are some people that do really, really well with lots of intense exercise, like cardio at the gym, you know, gym junkies, all of that.
00:26:29
Speaker
I am not that. I think some people, um you know, that's not there their thing per se. And my, um especially like in the cardio world, because i recently read Born to Walk by Mark Sisson and Brad Kearns. And um that is mind blowing.
00:26:46
Speaker
That will completely change your your thoughts on how beneficial is chronic cardio and running and marathons. And I forget, are you are you a runner? Like, do you do marathons? and I was a swimmer.
00:26:57
Speaker
Yeah. But after after listening that episode, I did get a walking pad for under my desk. so Oh, nice. Awesome. That episode blew my mind, especially things like the marathon, like how was how it was how they came up with it. It's so arbitrary.
00:27:14
Speaker
To go by the queen. We're like, well, we got to add this a little bit on. Yeah. Yeah. It was like a completely random. It was like a number. It was not based on. It wasn't accurate because there's like this idea that the marathon guy in Greek like ran that amount of miles and then he died. That's not actually accurate. He didn't actually die. He actually ran back. So it should be longer. So then, but then actually like doing that number.
00:27:36
Speaker
was going to be one number, but then like the queen wanted the marathon to end right in front of her palace. So then they like change the number. Like it's so arbitrary. It's crazy. And running marathons might not actually be the best thing for you health wise.
00:27:48
Speaker
That said, um, I think moving all throughout the day is really, really important. Like I know you and I are not moving right now, but I think it's really important to, not be sitting for long periods of time, supporting muscle mass, going back to muscle, I think is so important. So if that's like lifting weights, doing that for me, I like to just make my life really heavy.
00:28:10
Speaker
So I wear weights around, like when I'm doing errands or like cleaning my apartment, you've probably heard me talk about this before. This sounds... Silly and like it wouldn't do anything, but you would be surprised if you like switch all of your cookware and plates and things like that out with cast iron.
00:28:28
Speaker
um Like just like making things in your life heavy is nice to like get stimulus and like careing not using a grocery cart, carrying all your bags. yeah um And then I also do a lot of M-Sculpt.
00:28:39
Speaker
I do love M-Sculpt. which is muscle stimulation to grow muscle while laying there. Do you do DEXA scans or anything? like Do you look at bone density? Because I'd be curious with that making your life heavier, what that does in terms of bone density. And maybe that's more supportive doing it in all these different ways versus just like a 60-minute gym session a couple times a week.
00:29:03
Speaker
It's so funny. You're the second person asked me that within a week. um I haven't done one in forever. So I need to, I'm, I'm back. I need to, there's like no excuse. um I need to make that part of my regular habit. Do you, do you do one?
00:29:17
Speaker
I've never done a DEXA scan. Okay. So you, you and I both. Yeah. We're failing. Sorry. I need to. I need to check that out. Other people do. I go back and forth on some of the things tracking, like what metrics are really, really important. Cause it's like, okay, is my body fat percentage are from one or 2.1, one way or the other?
00:29:37
Speaker
Like, don't know. i'm I'm pretty healthy. Like, I don't know if I need that level of granularity. I think there is for me, and maybe you're similar on the bone density thing as a swimmer, we have lower bone density than sedentary people.
00:29:50
Speaker
because we spent so much of our life in a gravity-less environment that we actually have less than people just sat around because at least they had gravity pushing on them while they were sitting.
00:30:02
Speaker
um And so that's with my daughter. One of the reasons I now started training some, she she wants to do high jumping, long jumping. I started doing more of the impact with her um to one, help her because that's when you start building the bone density, but two for me, so I can try to get more of that into my life as well.
00:30:20
Speaker
That so interesting that I never, that never occurred to me. That completely makes sense. Yeah. It didn't, I only learned it, you know, a couple months ago when you chat from some guys I swam with.
00:30:31
Speaker
And then on top of that, I know, especially like DEXA scans, I think it's really, apparently it's like really important that you test with like the same hydration levels that you are testing every time, the same. Same time of day.
00:30:44
Speaker
Yeah. All this. Yeah. It's like the scale. If you think, if you think about it, like weighing yourself, there's so many factors that like go into that, that number. i remember in college, I would have practices where I'd swing eight pounds within practice. Like you could lose that much water weight. You're just sweating so much. It's a long practice. You're there at three or four hours. Wow.
00:31:04
Speaker
So what's what's the rate number? you know What's the yeah number if it can swing that much? on the I'm curious on the weights. Is it ankle weights? or what What do you have when you say, hey I wear them around? what What is it that you actually use there?
00:31:16
Speaker
Okay. I went through a period where I was like crazy and I was wearing ankle weights, like the like the big ones, like big, but like the, don't know, the really heavy ones, wrist weights, and I would wear like a weighted vest.
00:31:29
Speaker
like to the store. and don't do that anymore. um Now I pretty much wear wrist weights like on my arms. That's, I kind of like cap out there. Yeah. But I went through a phase.
00:31:41
Speaker
I do think though it's really important, like just picking up stuff and, oh, and this is, this is like, there's lots of like little tweaks you can do that make a big difference when done repeatedly and consistently kind of like switching out your stuff for cast iron.
00:31:55
Speaker
um Like just even when you're like on the floor, on the floor. you're like bending down for whatever reason or getting off of, off the floor, like pushing up with your leg, like pushing yourself up with your legs, not from your back or from your like little things, like like little adjustments like that, you can really help optimize your, you know, your body composition through the years.
Exercise Routines and Preferences
00:32:16
Speaker
And I get on the the long distance stuff, right? Especially from that Born to Walk side. But, you know, I also, from your interview with Dave Asprey, on the re-hit side, on like, hey, actually, it's this five minute thing that you do super, super high intensity. Have you played with the carol bike or anything like that on that side of things?
00:32:35
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. So I i love Carol. Um, so for listeners, it is a, it's a bike, an exercise bike that is set up to do this.
00:32:47
Speaker
Yeah. This re hit this high intensity interval training. um and it uses AI to adjust the the pedal, like the pedal resistance to help you get this ideal workout.
00:33:01
Speaker
And it tells you like when to run and when to stop. And what's really funny. And have you tried it by the way? I haven't tried it. No. Okay. What's cool about it is that it acts like you are a hunter gatherer in the wilderness. So it's like,
00:33:15
Speaker
You're walking like through the, and then it's like a tiger's coming. Yeah. And then when a tiger comes, it like flashes red and it's like, run, like your family needs you. Yeah. yeah It's like a whole experience. Okay. um But it's supposed to give you like the ultimate workout to support VO2 max longevity and all the things.
00:33:33
Speaker
It's amazing. I completely endorse it. The only reason i stopped doing it was it was actually building okay I'm thinking about how I just like, honestly, just tell all the things about my life.
00:33:44
Speaker
It was, I didn't like what it was doing to my legs. It was building, was like, was building lot of muscle my legs and I prefer the more svelte. And it so my, my, it like, it wasn't like going well with my like Taylor Swift body suit. So. i okay Well, yeah. So depending on the listener, right. They hear that and like, Oh, wait, you didn't want the muscle and he was giving you too much. I definitely want this. And then other people like yeah, that's not for me.
00:34:07
Speaker
What's so funny, I think about it lot because I feel like different people like like body parts certain ways. So like my sister, for example. Have you met my sister? I've not met her. I mean, I've definitely seen a lot her. We need to all hang out in Atlanta. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yeah, she like loves, like she's like all about like the legs. So like it'd be perfect for her, um like the muscly leg look. No, it's it's amazing. And so to answer your question about, i do think high intensity interval training, especially this re-hit can be a really great way to get the maximum bang for your buck when it comes to cardiovascular health, VO2 max, without overstressing your body, which this chronic endurance cardio tends to do and tends to actually lock you into a, like a carb burning state, not a fat burning state.
00:34:49
Speaker
This is something i'd be curious to your take on is something I've been thinking about kind of bouncing back and forth with for a while and coming from competitive athlete background, right? Like you competed to be the best.
00:35:03
Speaker
And then now I told myself, Hey, I'm just doing this to be healthy. And yet like trying to move to top VO two max and top muscle mass and and all these things. And then realize, the time that goes into it or the thought that goes into it, what is that taking away from other things?
00:35:18
Speaker
And if I really care just about health, health span, longevity, you know, 30, 40% of this effort would get me 80 90% there. and How much of this do I really, how intense do I need to be on it? And so I'm curious, your approach on all the things across, is it more, I'm trying to optimize every single thing, right? Like each molecule, all of this, or it's, yeah, I want to do this 80, 20. These are the big buckets I care most about because that's where I'm going to get the most benefit. But you know what? I really want to just have fun too, because this is my one life. Like, how do you think about those two things?
00:35:58
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's, it's such a great question. Yeah. Cause there's definitely like the Brian Johnson's of the world. So he's, you know, known for literally trying to optimize every single thing. And i have had my own personal journey with that for sure.
00:36:14
Speaker
i think what's interesting is I think when I first found the whole biohacking world, I came there at fear little bit. I was, I felt, I was, I felt sick and I felt unwell and I wanted to feel better.
00:36:28
Speaker
So I was trying all of these different things and they would work and it was great and it was amazing. And it was also a fear mindset because i then I felt like I had to do all the things to like be healthy. And Once I reframed, well, feeling better really helped. So so once I like got feeling a lot better um and reframed to think, not that I have to do these things, but I get to do these things that make me feel awesome. That was really amazing. And the way I approach it now, and I haven't really thought about it to this extent, but I think everything that I'm doing, I try to do
00:37:05
Speaker
to the best that I'm doing it. And it's all things that I love doing. So it's not like I feel like I have to do it. That said, I sort of, i will not do the things that don't make me feel well. So I'm very intense about that. So I have, I have really intense, and we'll we'll probably talk about this, like parameters around sleep and parameters around how I drink when I go out and all the things.
00:37:27
Speaker
So, and I'm sort of like an extremist all or none type person. So I do have really intense boundaries and guidelines for how I live my life. But then within that, I don't feel pressured to do all the things.
00:37:38
Speaker
um I try to be flexible within the boundaries and I don't stress about having to do all the things perfectly all the time. That's overwhelming. So speaking of which...
00:37:51
Speaker
We talked about, hey, we have pretty different approaches on food. And I think one of the first areas that we saw we were pretty different is our sleep schedule. Oh, yes. So take me through how you approach sleep and recovery.
00:38:06
Speaker
And i let's start with sleep. And then I do want to ask you some questions on recovery, because I know you have lots of toys and tools and things that I have, too, and and how you think about those. But let's let's start with sleep, because I am really curious here.
00:38:18
Speaker
Yes. So for listeners, Andrew has my ideal sleep cycle. Like I want to be you with sleep. um Yeah. Cause you're, you're the the, you're like up in the morning, like good to go. I i want to be the morning person.
Sleep Optimization Practices
00:38:33
Speaker
I do think kind of like with diet, kind of like with exercise sleep, I think is very individual. like I definitely think there are different sleep chronotypes. Did you meet Dr. Michael Bruce at eudaimonia?
00:38:46
Speaker
No. Okay. He's amazing. He wrote The Power of Wynn. Oh, I love that book. Yeah. Oh, I can introduce you. read years Yeah. He also has a new book coming out, so um he'll probably love to come on the show. Okay. He was Matthew Walker before Matthew Walker, in my mind. like he had that He had that space before Dr. Walker came out with Why We Sleep.
00:39:07
Speaker
He's... Amazing. And I got to meet him in person. I already knew I'd had him on the show twice. And then I met him in person at Eudaimonia and I like got to hang out with him so much. And he's just like incredible.
00:39:18
Speaker
Um, so he came up with the idea of these four sleep chronotypes and it's basically, you are the, the stereotypical early, but early bird, which he calls a lion,
00:39:33
Speaker
There's the the night owl, which he calls the wolf. I haven't thought about this a long time, so I'm trying to remember. There's bear. There's the bear. Yeah, that's like the general everyday, like so society normal hours.
00:39:46
Speaker
And then there's a dolphin, which is me, which is... Not any of those. um We basically um don't sleep well and get a, unlike all the other ones, we get like a crunch, we get a cortisol spike in the evening, like regardless. Wow.
00:40:05
Speaker
Okay. Cause like most, even the, even the wolf, even the night owl wolf, their cortisol levels go down at night. It's just way later that they go down compared to ah dolphin. Like me, we just like,
00:40:17
Speaker
wake up. um He called it the dolphin because the dolphin is kind of like how the dolphins in real life, um like never completely sleep, like half of their brains always awake. So in any case, and the reasoning that he provides for this is that evolutionarily as humans, there always had to be somebody awake to like protect the tribe.
00:40:38
Speaker
So if we all had the same sleeppi sleep cycle, that would not be good because everybody would be asleep and then not good. Yeah. So I think honoring that is really important. And so for me, i just, yeah, I'm like on in the evening and I go to bed really late and I wake up late and I'm, I still work on my guilt, which I give to myself from how I perceive society wants me to be.
00:41:02
Speaker
i work on that. Yeah. But I mean, I think this is beauty of you being an entrepreneur, like you dictate your schedule. I mean, I normally record because this is around me, at a totally different time of day, but you're like, no, here's the time I record. Right. So we we did it five o'clock because you can't like you created your own life. If you had to go to an office job, it'd be a different thing. But when you say it's late, mean, we're talking like two 33, we go to sleep based on texts or like what, what time are we talking there?
00:41:29
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So first of all, thank you for doing it at this time. um Second of all, it's so funny. Literally, not not like you sound like my mom, but that's what my mom always says. She's like, Melanie, she's like, you were born this way. And she's like, as long as you can do it as like an entrepreneur with your schedule, like, why not?
00:41:49
Speaker
So thank you for validating. um Yeah. It's okay. So like in my, in my dream world of still being my circadian rhythm, I would, in my dream world, I would go to bed at like two or three and wake up at like 11.
00:42:08
Speaker
Sometimes we do that. It's often later on both ends. Got it. So makes sense. And then you have, do you have a nighttime routine? Cause like Apollo neuro, I know is part of what you do You, you have your sauna, right? Your infrared, like bed thing.
00:42:29
Speaker
So, so take me through what is, How do you take from that high cortisol spike late? How do you take it down? What works for you? Yes. Okay. So I think honoring your sleep and having a wind down routine is one of the most powerful things that people can do.
00:42:47
Speaker
um It's so important. So getting sleep is so important, especially it's ironic because there's this hustle culture and this idea that I'll sleep when I'm dead and like the most successful people don't sleep.
00:42:59
Speaker
I beg to differ. I think successful people don't sleep, I think the most successful people value their sleep and like protect it. So for me, ah well, first of all, light exposure today is just so messed up and it really affects our circadian rhythm. So blue light tells our bodies to be awake. It stops the production of melatonin. Like we were talking about earlier melatonin.
00:43:23
Speaker
um So everything you can do to control your light exposure to support your natural circadian rhythm, I think is really important. So at night, ah well, actually it starts and it starts when you wake up. So when you wake up in the morning or afternoon,
00:43:39
Speaker
Um, getting UV exposure, like not UV exposure, like UV light, like natural light from the outdoors, getting that in your eyes is really important. And then I like to use red light to, I, I actually run it all day, but using the red light as like ambient lighting can help combat a lot of that blue light.
00:43:56
Speaker
And then fast forward to the evening, i use a lot of red light. I wear blue light blocking glasses when it's getting, when when it's winding down. um i do do, like you mentioned, I do a sauna session. I do a cryotherapy session during the day. um And then at the evening, I do a sauna session. i have a sunlight in.
00:44:15
Speaker
um do you, have you been connected to them? have not. No. We should. Yeah. connected to them too. They make my favorite infrared sauna. And so they make cabin units, but then they also make the one I have, which is called the solo. And it's basically like, it's a hard shell.
00:44:32
Speaker
It's not like, so it's not a sauna blanket. It's a hard shell contraption. yeah I can see it in my um video. um You lay down inside of it and your head's out out of it. So I can like do work like while laying there. It's amazing.
00:44:46
Speaker
I do that every night that actually helps support sleep because it rates your body temperature and then your body compensates afterwards to cool you down, which actually cools you down later. And you need to have a cooler temperature to like fall asleep.
00:45:01
Speaker
So I do that in the evening. i wear the, like I said, blue light blocking glasses. And then when it actually comes to sleep, sleep, having a sleep environment, like keeping it cool, I, I keep it at like 61 degrees.
00:45:17
Speaker
um it's funny, even during the winter, I run the air conditioner and my maintenance, the maintenance people were so confused. Cause I think I, they probably don't know. They're probably, they're probably not used to like keeping the air conditioners topped off in the winter.
00:45:29
Speaker
so I like submitted a maintenance request. I was like, I think they need to replace the Freon because it's out. And they were, so they were so confused. They were like, don't you mean the heater? was like, no, the AC, I need the AC. Blackout curtains, really important.
00:45:42
Speaker
Um, earplugs, face mask, face mask, sleep mask. Oh, I just, I finally started using mouth tape. Okay. I don't know why it took me so long to like do this.
00:45:55
Speaker
Um, i' I started doing it during the day, actually. And I have you tried it like during the day? haven't tried it during the day. See, my issue, everybody I tell it to does it and they love it.
00:46:08
Speaker
For me, i start breaking out and it's not where the tape is. I've tried all these different brands. There's something about my skin. It's all on the outside of where the tape is. i don't know why. But after I do like 10 days to two weeks of mouth tape, my face starts breaking out. And then I stopped for two weeks and my face totally clears up. It's something around mouth taping makes my skin break out. I don't know why. Oh, wow. Do have you have tried? Um, Luna Sol is the Luna Sol is the brand I'm trying right now. They make like an X that doesn't even really, I had an, and maybe that's when I had, had that I had hostage tape. I had,
00:46:40
Speaker
just using the 3M. I had the one, my dentist that I did my homeo block with gave me, like I've tried very expensive, all different kinds of tapes. And it's still, it's just, it drives me nuts.
00:46:52
Speaker
Okay. Well, maybe it's just not in the cards for you, but I was meeting with an oral myofascial therapist. Cause I have like TMJ issues. And so I wanted to like, that was mind blowing. I did an intake form. I learned so much about like my mouth and like my face.
00:47:07
Speaker
But in any case, she said, she asked me if I do mouth taping and she said to start during the day because she said people will just like start mouth taping at night and actually not a good idea because they might have a deviated septum. They might not be like breathing. So they actually can be, you got to like ease into it for some people. Okay.
00:47:26
Speaker
So I was like, I'll do it during the day. I did it. So now I do it in my sauna sessions and I, it's crazy having it on there for like an hour. i feel the first time i did it, I felt high. I was like, what is happening?
00:47:37
Speaker
Like just breathing only breathing through your nose. Yeah. so So that's a tangent, but that that's something people can do at night as well. Um, and then you mentioned like the, yeah, the Apollo neuro you're wearing one right now.
00:47:50
Speaker
Yeah. and see It's going off. Isn't it like the best thing ever? I'm obsessed with it. I love it. I, i and I invested in the company. Like I, I believe in it, but the, I also, i don't know if you've ever tried this in Satay talk to them.
00:48:04
Speaker
What? Insate? it's spelled sensate but apparently it's spelled since so it's pronounced in saute but it's this little it looks like little little eggshaped thing ah kind of wear on a necklace and it's part somatic so it goes with some music and sounds right you have your headphones and do you can do from five to thirty minutes of it and then it vibrates at these different pulses And the two days after I got it, my HRV went up more than 30%. Oh, wow. It was immediate impact.
00:48:33
Speaker
I'm a fan of both. I wear this. I didn't know until I heard you interview the the founder that to wear it on my ankle. So I started wearing on my ankle at night. I always said the wrist. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I've never worn it on my ankle.
00:48:46
Speaker
Yeah. he He did say, to have you is it different for you on the ankle? I think so. Every now and then I knock it off, but I think I notice it less. So I think I'm probably getting the same, you know, for me, he cited some numbers on the extra sleep. I've never gotten that much. Mine's like 18 to 20 something minutes extra sleep, according to it.
00:49:04
Speaker
Thanks. Yeah. but maybe this is TMI for everybody, but I used to get up like twice a night to pee and I've definitely cut back on drinking like after four o'clock, not alcohol, but just like drinking anything. i don't have water with dinner or anything.
00:49:20
Speaker
And now I don't do it, but I think maybe this has helped that too. wow. Because it's helping me stay asleep. i I'm not waking up with that story in my head and I just sleep through the night, which is a big, big thing. That's so interesting. That, yeah, that's something I can work on. i My problem is I drink a lot of...
00:49:35
Speaker
fluid before I go to bed. Yeah. See, I, I, I used to as well. Like I, know, I have this massive Yeti and I would drink two of these by 9am and then I'd have, know, my protein shakes and all this. And drink, I just chugged water all day.
00:49:48
Speaker
And I think Elaine Norton had made this comment of that level of hydration is like picking up quarters and giving up dollar bills because of what it's doing to your ability to sleep through the night. And that's actually the more valuable thing.
00:50:00
Speaker
And then Andy Galpin, I want to say on the Perform podcast, talked about especially women and high-performing women are over-hydrated and with these electrolyte imbalances. I know you're a big Element fan, so you probably have all your electrolytes dialed in.
00:50:15
Speaker
But the over-hydration was a bigger problem for all these people that think they're doing the right thing and we over-correct. And I just cut way back on my hydration. And I don't know it's everything's doing better.
00:50:27
Speaker
That's interesting. um i am I am with hydration. I am all about being intuitive. Like I feel like our thirst mechanism is probably pretty accurate. The reason I drink so much before bed is I like having natural calm. Is it called natural calm? the It's at the magnesium drink.
00:50:46
Speaker
It really helps with my digestion and going to my like bowel movements and all those things. So I drink a lot of that before bed and Yeah. I'm curious. So you you mentioned your sister and us all hanging out and community is seems like a big thing for you,
Social Connection and Longevity
00:51:02
Speaker
right? Like on your podcast, you're like, hey, friends. And you're always posting out and about really promoting people with your sister, doing amazing things, knowing the importance because this was kind of a newer learning to me of.
00:51:15
Speaker
social connection and its importance to our health, right? They were they're saying loneliness is a new smoking. It's like smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Like there real physical and mental impacts from not having that social connection.
00:51:27
Speaker
And as someone who literally is going to spend your life in this biohacking space, is that something you proactively think about and cultivate understanding its importance? And if so, how do you do it?
00:51:39
Speaker
It's kind of interesting. It's kind of like they... Alzheimer's and dementia formulation or people getting Alzheimer's and dementia. I know people who um lose their hearing, um it's a risk factor for that.
00:51:54
Speaker
And one of the theories behind that is that it might have to do with losing that. social connection to to people. And then just in general, um, social connection seems to be really important for protect protection of the preventing cognitive decline. There was one study that looked at all the blue zones and trying to figure out the thing most correlated to longevity. And, um,
00:52:17
Speaker
One of the studies found that it was the amount of social interactions you had per day. Not like the amount of social interactions you have, but like the amount of like individual, like talking to different people that you, that you had.
00:52:30
Speaker
So I, I think social connection is so, so important. And it, It definitely supports our mental health, our cognition, releases feel-good neurotransmitters. And kind of like every other topic, if people are sensing a theme here, I think it's very individual. So some people, kind of like the extrovert, introvert, omnivore, some people, i think, need more social interaction to feel...
00:52:55
Speaker
like to get the amount of social interaction they need. like They thrive off of that. They get energized by that. So they need to be seeing people or going out like multiple times a week. like That's what they need. Some people need way less. So like for me, I'm good. I i like to go out like once a week is my ideal.
00:53:12
Speaker
i get my ah social kick. I feel fulfilled that night. I do feel like i get I have to not recover from it, but... The reason I feel like I'm an introvert is that i um I have to build up again after intense social interactions, even though I love being there.
00:53:31
Speaker
i i think introvert versus extroversion isn't so much about being shy or anything like that. It's about does having social interactions and going out and being with people make you more energized or does it actually drain you a little bit?
00:53:46
Speaker
And they' are different flavors of that too. Because I mean, I know... Like when you go out, lot of times it's a big production, right? Like it's a big event. You have the tickets, there's the dress, like there's all this stuff around it. So it is, there's more that goes into it. So I can see that being much more draining than you're meeting up with two people for a coffee, right? Like it's it's a different kind of social interaction, i would imagine Yeah, I know. Definitely. um Yeah, there's definitely when it's a whole event, there's like way more energy.
00:54:15
Speaker
i also though, I have to be, i have, so like podcasts, for example, i will not do two podcasts in a day. um Even if it's going on somebody else's show, i won't do it twice. I won't do two because Like even this, because I don't want to say draining because that makes it sound negative, but like this ah social and a really intense engaged social interaction for me, i do have to like, I have to like monitor how many I do.
00:54:45
Speaker
um So yeah, because how about you? How about you? Like, do you like, do you like going out a lot? Like what what's your... It's i was having this conversation this weekend. So it's funny. I always think of myself, not always, but in the past 10 years, I've thought of myself as an introvert.
00:55:02
Speaker
I'd rather be in small groups and one on one conversation like this. This is what like. But every single time I've ever taken that test. I've been off the charts extrovert. Oh, really? When I went to McKinsey and you do MBTI, was the most extrovert.
00:55:18
Speaker
People couldn't convert. like it was just so over the top. and What I can't ever feel figure out is, am I playing a role? Because each of those times, I love it when I'm in it, but I find it so draining. like I need a need time to come down off of it. so i Even no matter how late we get back,
00:55:36
Speaker
from going out that night, I need to stay up for a little bit just to come down from it. And then be right back at it the next day. So I really don't know, like first know myself. And I don't think I know myself on that realm. I think I'm an introvert, but the data keeps telling me otherwise.
00:55:52
Speaker
That's so interesting. And and actually to that point, it's funny because well, when I go out, I think people think because I'm such a night bird or night owl um that you know, I can come back late and like, it's all good. Cause I go to bed late anyways, but like you, i have to wind down. have to have like my wind down routine.
00:56:10
Speaker
So I can't, I can't just like come back and like go to bed. It's not going to work. feel like you're an omnivert. Yeah. I'm different. What's a camellia vert, right? Like I can just play to it. I think there's, there's a lot of me that just like plays to the environment and I,
00:56:28
Speaker
without necessarily consciously recognizing it, adapt myself to be suited to the environment I'm in and what other people may want or need, think. This doesn't need to be a therapy session for me. I do love therapy, though by the way.
00:56:44
Speaker
I really support therapy. Well, speaking of Okay, so on that and mindset. So I didn't know when on your podcast, always closing, saying, hey, I've increasingly learned the importance of mindset.
00:56:55
Speaker
And so ask people what they're grateful for. But when you're talking about therapy and mindset and managing stress, like there's cortisol, there's some biological side, but there's also...
Stress Management Techniques
00:57:05
Speaker
breathwork and other physiological things that we can do to manage those.
00:57:10
Speaker
How do you manage your mindset and stress? Is there a proactive thing you do? or Do you have certain practices, whether it's journaling or breathwork, meditation? What do you do on that front? think mindset, again, so so important. And again, so unique to to everybody.
00:57:26
Speaker
I'm also very haunted by the nurture versus nature, role of childhood, all those things. Because I know like for me... I've really always been a glass half full full positive person.
00:57:39
Speaker
mindset for as long as I can remember. And I'm very grateful for that because especially luke when I read all these books and interview these people about changing your mindset, and I'm just so grateful that that's not something I have to really intensely work on. I have to work on, I have fear, i have anxiety, I have all of that, and but my underlying perspective on life is, is very positive. So I'm, I'm grateful that I feel that way.
00:58:03
Speaker
Um, that said, Stress and anxiety. i definitely... So like on that the the spectrum of like... if you're If you're having a spectrum like anxiety versus depression, and i realize people can have both.
00:58:13
Speaker
But like I very rarely ever feel things on the depressed side of things, but I will get anxiety for sure. And I think there' you know there's basically... two big ways of addressing this, like two camps, because there's, you know, bottom up top down. So top down ways, like working on your, your thoughts and your, you know, cognitive behavioral, behavioral therapy and, and therapy sessions. And I think that's all amazing. I think these all, all work is the point. Um,
00:58:40
Speaker
So there's that. And then there's like bottom up. So that's where things like you mentioned breath work and like wearing the Apollo neuro, which we didn't even say what it does. it it It does gentle vibrations that stimulates your parasympathetic nervous system, which is helps you like calm down and um rest and digest and all of that. So I think finding there are so many, it's exciting. There's so many tools out there that can help you with stress.
00:59:03
Speaker
I think you have to find the ones that work for you. ah like meditation. That would be on the... like the cognitive, the top down side of things. So like for me, meditation, i did like a meditation course. I feel like I learned really good skills that I implement daily as like, as far as noticing my thoughts.
00:59:20
Speaker
but like an active ongoing meditation practice just doesn't, it's like not my jam. I sort of wish it was. Cause I don't know. It seems like really cool, but I've never like really connected with it.
00:59:31
Speaker
Um, that said, I, I've connect really well with things like, uh, like, like the Apollo neurons, like the gentle vibrations. Um, things like ah Things like breath work helps me a lot.
00:59:45
Speaker
And just having a lot of paradigm shifts about core beliefs. think I think that's really, really important. So like, how do you perceive... ah very basic things and how do you engage in life? So like not catastrophizing, not making assumptions. Like there's a lot of like thought patterns you can recognize. And when you change them, it can be just really beneficial.
01:00:08
Speaker
But yes, I think mental health is so so important and you got to find what works for you. I mean, yeah, like with fitness, like with nutrition. mean, people say, oh, I don't like vegetables. Like, okay, what do you mean? Well, hate asparagus. Like, okay, so you don't hate vegetables. You don't like asparagus. There's a whole world of plants out there. Or I don't like exercise. Why? Because I hate weightlifting.
01:00:28
Speaker
Oh, well, there's actually this whole world of different ways of moving your body. And I guess it's the same, what you're saying, not just the top down or bottom up, but within that, there are infinite flavors of what is it that helps you Regain that equanimity and get back to that stillness in yourself, whether it's breathwork or meditation or walk through nature, whatever it is, just finding what's right for you.
01:00:53
Speaker
Exactly. Like, so I'm, I'm actually, one of the things that probably helps me the most is having my really intense quote biohacking routine every day. So doing my cryotherapy, I find amazing for my mood.
01:01:07
Speaker
So doing cryotherapy, having my sauna session, respecting my sleep boundaries, like all of that really helps color my mood. my mental health and wellness and the fasting, the doing intermittent fasting. is That may be one of the things that has had the most profound effect on my mental health and wellness, honestly. you're It looks like wearing an aura ring, right?
01:01:26
Speaker
Oh, yes. Okay. So for your aura, what what do you want to get from it? What do you get from it? ah You're tracking, what what is it helping you with?
Wearable Tech for Health Monitoring
01:01:38
Speaker
What are you looking to do with it? Yeah, it's funny. So I dragged my feet on getting an Oura ring because i thought it was going to make me neurotic. I was like, I don't want something that's monitoring my sleep and everything I do all the time and telling me that I didn't sleep well or... Yeah. so But then I interviewed the founder. so I was like, I got to get one now.
01:01:59
Speaker
um Or I don't know if he was... Yeah. Was he the founder? At the time, he's not there anymore. In any case, so what I love about Oura specifically is the way it talks to you. So like the language that it uses is very encouraging. So it never, even even if you don't sleep well, it never makes you feel like the world is ending.
01:02:21
Speaker
And what what it shows you for listeners, it shows you your heart rate variability, which is the... It's a marker of how well you're adapted to stress. It has to do with the amount of time in between heartbeats. And what can be a little bit counterintuitive is you might think that you want consistent time between heartbeats, but that actually signifies a stress state. Because if you think about it, like when you're stressed, that's when it's like your heart's like pumping, pumping, pumping, pumping compared to like going with the flow and like...
01:02:46
Speaker
you know, like having a little bit of difference there. So that's what heart rate variability is. Um, it monitors that and monitors your, your sleep, like how you went into the different sleep ah cycles. It looks at your body temperature, your activity levels, um, your respiration, all the things I use it Mostly to monitor probably my my readiness scores. So how, so like when you wake up in the morning or afternoon, it tells you how your heart rate variability is and what is your, your readiness score. And it kind of gives you a good picture of like, how are my lifestyle habits affecting me?
01:03:22
Speaker
I do like seeing how things affect sleep, especially if I'm like play with a different dietary choice the night before. um i do like to see that I'm getting ample movement with the steps and I kind of just use it as... and don't neurotically analyze it or look at the data.
01:03:38
Speaker
It just kind of makes me feel... like it makes me feel like I'm you know monitoring everything I'm doing. so And so do you do, because you introduced me to to Katie and what they're doing with reputable, ah do you use it a little bit at as in a one at times too? of Like, Hey, I want to try this new supplement or, you know, the Apollo neuro whatever it is and see before and after on the data.
01:04:04
Speaker
Yeah. What's interesting, it kind of usually happens kind of like something you were saying earlier. i sort of will notice it after the ah afterwards. Like I'll try something new not and and I will not intentionally check track or check on aura, but then I'll like, oh, like that actually...
01:04:23
Speaker
made a difference. So it's more retroactive. i haven't, I don't typically like consciously try to to, do it. Um, I will say, I think the, one of the more fun things about it is I really like how it can monitor sickness progression.
01:04:43
Speaker
Um, so for example, when I got COVID, which I had twice, it was fascinating to watch COVID on my war ring. Cause I,
01:04:54
Speaker
it saw it coming for sure. it was like something's coming. And then I, and then when I had let the actual symptoms lasted for, you know, I don't know how long they lasted now, like three, four or five days.
01:05:07
Speaker
Um, I could see, i could see my, I could see how low I got with my readiness and my sleep. And then I could see myself recover. So it I, like I really like it for that.
01:05:19
Speaker
On a macro level, it's going to be pretty telling where this can go. i mean, I had a friend with his Apple Watch. He got diagnosed with stage 3 cancer. And going back and looking at the data, you know, his resting heart rate was kind of up and down over years. And then there was this pattern of just up, up, up.
01:05:38
Speaker
And it matched exactly with the timing that they said, yeah, we think you've had it since this date. And it was exactly when that went up. and i had another friend with his aura ring who had a stroke.
01:05:49
Speaker
And he was like, in retrospect, the 10 to 14 days prior, you could 100% see something was going on, something was about to happen, but only when you look back. So I don't know if enough time, over enough time, you get enough of those cases that we can diagnose ahead of the time. Like, woo okay, you know this is starting to happen. You really need to go check something out right now.
01:06:09
Speaker
Wow. for i'm First of all, I'm so sorry about your friends. That's really not not good. um Yeah. No, it's it's it's really, really fascinating. And When I first got... like Like I said, when I first got COVID the first time, that's when I was like, oh, it really does.
01:06:24
Speaker
It really knows. Like it know it knows. so Millie, you do so much. It's it's interesting because you have experts, right? But they're typically expert in such a narrow field.
01:06:37
Speaker
And you get expert in all their different fields across. And so what you do... I think could be really intimidating to other people who are coming into this, right? Because one, it's not their kind of full-time job and passion and everything.
01:06:51
Speaker
And so they they haven't seen how it's built over time, what comes in and comes out over time to get to where they where you now are.
Biohacking for Beginners
01:06:59
Speaker
For someone who wants to start this journey, but may be intimidated, may be overwhelmed, where would you suggest they start?
01:07:08
Speaker
Literally, I just had this experience with a friend. She... she finally became open to like trying, like she wanted to make health changes.
01:07:20
Speaker
She was excited. Well, she was intrigued by this whole biohacking world and she was super overwhelmed. Um, cause she was like, there's like so many things and it, it's very overwhelming.
01:07:32
Speaker
And the things I was telling her um,
01:07:36
Speaker
Just like focus on one thing at a time in the beginning that really, really resonates with you. but well so Well, again, going back to knowing who you are, some people are like all or none. So they just want to like jump in, do all the things.
01:07:49
Speaker
So there's that type. But for people who can be overwhelmed and don't know where to start out of all the the things like find what resonates with you. um know that if it doesn't work, that's okay. Like everything's an experiment and I promise, cause I've seen it happen with me. I've seen it happen with so many people.
01:08:08
Speaker
It can become an upward spiral where it shifts from being overwhelmed to just excitement about all the things you get to try. So like finding the the things that really like connect with you, trying them and then trying some more things. And then once you get into that, like free fall mode, you'll just like want to try all the things as far as like, where should you start? Like diet, sleep, mental health, wellness.
01:08:29
Speaker
It's such a hard question to answer and they all are really important. i I do think sleep is... huge. i'm I'm like torn, but I'm torn between sleep and then just like eating whole foods, like like cutting out the, you know, the, the, the process stuff and and all this stuff. Um, but, but sleep, sleep is so, so important. So, so maybe working on that would be a good place to start and, you know, trying one thing here, you know, first trying the blue light blocking glasses or but blackout curtains or, you know, just trying one thing at a time and then adding more and more.
01:09:07
Speaker
You can start super, super cheap, right? Before you go invest in blackout creams, you can get an eye mask. You can get cheap earbuds to block the noise. Like there are things and at the base level, just getting, making sure you're getting eight hours in bed, right? Like just starting of, Hey, let me build my schedule around this. Like this is the most important block and everything else has to follow around.
Cost-effective Wellness Practices
01:09:28
Speaker
Exactly. And like for like the cheap thing, ah so many of these things have, affordable versions. So like cryotherapy, you can start with having a cold blast in your shower that that's free.
01:09:41
Speaker
It saves money. It's not just free. It's going to save you money. Taking cold showers, you're saving money. Yes, exactly. um so it's all very approachable, approachable, doable. And because the stuff actually works, I promise it switches to less overwhelm and more excitement.
Podcast Closing and Future Outlook
01:09:59
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for this and for all you. I absolutely adore your podcast. I get so much out of it. I do have to close with long live all the magic we made today.
01:10:10
Speaker
I cannot thank you enough for being here. And yeah, i I look forward to getting together in person and meeting your sister sometime soon. Well, thank you, Andrew. i had the time of my life fighting dragons with you.
01:10:22
Speaker
Thank you for joining us on today's episode of the Home of Healthspan podcast. And remember, you can always find the products, practices, and routines mentioned by today's guests, as well as many other healthspan role models on Alively.com.
01:10:35
Speaker
Enjoy a lively day.