Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Mind the Model: Episode 002: Kate Russell
37 Plays1 month ago
Register for tickets to see Mind the Model live at SXSW at Clear Hayes House on Thursday 16 Oct from 12:30-1:30pm. Get tickets at www.clearhayes.com/clearhayeshouse
Get in touch with us at mindthemodelpod@gmail.com - we’re always interested to hear your thoughts, recommendations for guests or complaints about Nathan’s microphone
OUR GUEST:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/katealexandrarussell/
Kate Russell is a dynamic leader with over 18 years of experience across Brand Marketing, Communications, Community, Wholesale and People. She has worked with global and Australian brands including lululemon, Manning Cartell and the Australian Fashion Council, as well as Marketing/ PR agencies such as n2n (now Publicis) and Example, bringing a unique blend of strategic marketing and cultural leadership to the table. With deep roots in brand and community-building, Kate is known for creating inclusive, high-performing teams and communities, grounded in connection and purpose.
Today, she is the founder of Hum[ai]n, a consultancy that helps businesses navigate the people and culture impacts of an AI-driven workforce. Kate partners with organisations to ensure technology enhances, not replaces, human potential, guiding leaders through the mindset and culture shifts essential for successful transformation. A trusted C-suite advisor and speaker at events including Vivid Ideas and Australian Grand Prix with Porsche Australia, Kate is also a long-time mentor with Marketing Women Inc. and passionate advocate for creating cultures that empower people and purpose-led, people-first change.
To find out more visit Kate’s website - https://hum-ai-n.replit.app/ and check out Kate’s AI Readiness Playbook at https://hum-ai-n.replit.app/ai-readiness-playbook
REFERENCES:
Klarna: https://gizmodo.com/klarna-hiring-back-human-help-after-going-all-in-on-ai-2000600767
Bee AI Wareable: https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/22/amazon-acquires-bee-the-ai-wearable-that-records-everything-you-say/
Recommended
Transcript
Live Recording Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
Quick note before today's episode. We're excited to announce that Mind the Model will be recording a live podcast at Clear Hayes House during South by Southwest Sydney on Thursday, October 16th from 1230 to 130 p.m.
00:00:13
Speaker
We'd love to see you there, but we are expecting that tickets will sell out. Register for your free tickets at www.clearhayes.com slash clearhayeshouse. We've put a link in the show notes.
00:00:25
Speaker
And now for the show.
Introduction to Episode 2
00:00:34
Speaker
Welcome to our second episode of Mind the Model, the Modern Marketer's Guide to AI. I'm Nathan Guerra, and I'm joined here today by my co-host, Emily Krellin.
00:00:45
Speaker
So just given the fact that this is an AI podcast, Nate, just to kick things off, when was the last thing, what did you use AI for last?
Nathan on Personal AI Models
00:00:54
Speaker
I am interested in setting up a um potentially my own model running on some hardware at home.
00:01:01
Speaker
That is fascinating to me. It's something I learned about early in my AI coursework, and I have no idea what it entails. So please tell me more. There's a thing called Olama, and you can download use that to then download models.
00:01:15
Speaker
And there are all sorts of different models. And a lot of the really new um kind of exciting ones seems to be coming out of China. So you've got things like Quinn, Q-W-E-N, and of course, DeepSeek is out of China as well. um But there's a bunch of interesting kind of really small models. Also, Google has one called Gemma.
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah, I'm familiar. Yeah, yeah. Are designed to either run on a phone or run on very, very low-end hardware. um So I'm looking at setting something like that up and seeing what that – if that is something that is possible with my limited hardware that I have in my house. I find that so interesting, and that is like the one or two steps above what I'm familiar with.
00:01:55
Speaker
I play within the you know the models that are a bit more closed source, like ChatGPT, or Anthropic.
Future of AI Wearables and Privacy
00:02:03
Speaker
Recently, there's been some news coming out about Amazon acquiring that AI wearable company called BEE.
00:02:09
Speaker
e Anyways, the reason I bring this up is chatting about AI wearables. It's definitely a 2026 conversation. It's far too early to be having it now. But what do you think about that future of AI wearables? like Would you, Nathan, wear a watch or a pendant necklace to record everything you say Well, here's the thing. i've I've heard there are a number of AI wearables already.
00:02:35
Speaker
So it's not a 2026 conversation. You're going to keep talking about it because somebody said they're using AI as a conflict resolution device for their for their relationship. But the AI device thing is, yeah, it's definitely going to continue to grow. It's going to be something that I think we have to reckon with.
00:02:51
Speaker
My concerns right now is AI is still really showing itself in as a insecure environment, open AI chat logs that were published and then got indexed by Google, which included all sorts of PII information and and very personal stuff. about That's such a great point, Nate, like especially for the data privacy.
00:03:10
Speaker
like You start to think about you know what if you were having off-the-cuff conversation ah you know over a work dinner while wearing your wearable and you're starting to have some conversations that are considered to be You know, off the record, but it transcribed. We all say things all the time that we don't mean, you know, fine, that we wouldn't want made available for public consumption. And that's the concern, right?
00:03:31
Speaker
I doubt at the 2026 release of these products that I'm speaking of, there will be ah context aware wearable to understand body language as well. So, yeah, definitely an interesting space to play in.
00:03:44
Speaker
Yeah. Look, the thing is, here's my perspective on it. We're going to have to continue to reckon with it because in my experience and my belief is that people will always give up privacy for convenience.
00:03:54
Speaker
And these things will become increasingly convenient and powerful and helpful. And that tends to override privacy concerns for people. But it's still for me right now, um I'm not ready to put one on. And my wife certainly would not be ready for me to wear one around the house all the time.
00:04:09
Speaker
Listen, I won't sign up to being an early adopter of an AI wearable. My husband would not be too
Kate Russell Joins the Podcast
00:04:14
Speaker
keen on that one. ah But the purpose of this episode in particular is to welcome Kate Russell, our guest today. So Kate is the founder of Humane, a consultancy focused on helping organizations integrate AI through a people-first lens.
00:04:29
Speaker
With over 18 years of experience in brand communications and leadership, Kate is on a mission to make sure AI enhances and does not replace human potentials. Welcome, Kate, to Mind the Model. KATE BIRDLE- Thanks for having me, Em and Nice.
00:04:42
Speaker
Very excited to be here and chat with you both. We'd like to start off with a couple of quick fire, kind of punchy questions. What's your go-to Gen AI model?
Kate's Preferred AI Models
00:04:52
Speaker
So if you had it asked me a month ago, it would have been Grok.
00:04:55
Speaker
Okay. and that's That's the first time I've ever heard that. ah Yeah, I know. And everyone keeps saying that. um I just really liked the way it responded to things that I asked or the way it broke.
00:05:06
Speaker
However, um in the last month, I've upgraded to um kind of chat DBT for a full point. um whatever it is and I'm using that and that's my favourite.
00:05:17
Speaker
But I think it's actually really important that you try but both um because I think for a while I was using a couple to kind of see how the answers um came out and actually preferred Grock whereas now I'm a chat GPT girl. For now.
00:05:30
Speaker
For now. And then continue on, ah just quick fire question for you. What is the last thing you asked AI to do for you? How do I deal with a toddler who's two years old, who doesn't want to get dressed?
00:05:42
Speaker
um What are some fun games that I can play to help the situation every morning? And did it work? it What was the advice? Yeah, to play a game, um to pretend that we were spiders, um and then he had to put his arms through it. It was actually very creative. So it it worked. I loved it.
00:06:02
Speaker
That's so funny because there was actually a report recently that Sam Altman actually uses ChatGPT. for parenting advice as well. I too have been known to do that, especially why is my toddler not sleeping overnight? Honestly, it's a game changer. I actually wish I had had it when he was a newborn. Yeah. I'm not sure how well it's going to work on my teenagers, but you know it's good to know that for for toddlers at least.
00:06:25
Speaker
Have you ever had a good old fashioned AI fail? you know Something that didn't work for you?
AI Fail: Calendar Assistant Error
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny, prior to probably last week, actually hadn't really had a big fail.
00:06:39
Speaker
But last week I was trying out an AI powered calendar assistant just to kind of see with meetings and you know, like many working parents, how kind of I can manage it. Finding the efficiency, love it. And I blocked out time for family commitments every Friday afternoon in my diary.
00:06:57
Speaker
And a certain week I'd noticed it had scheduled a meeting over the top of it and I couldn't quite work out why. But when I went in and looked at the um assistance kind of logic, it had flair itated kind of flagged that the meeting was higher priority and it had downgraded my family plan to more personal and flexible. Savage.
00:07:18
Speaker
And so it was really interesting because it hit a nerve a little bit. um And I think it's interesting what it shows is that obviously the system was optimising for efficiency. And that is something that we risk or assume understands what our priorities are. So I think, um it you know, obviously it was very solvable, but I think it's a really interesting one um and a good reminder that ah there still needs to be certain things like human oversight. Human in the loop. That's exactly right.
00:07:50
Speaker
Well, and and I think training as well, right? So that's something that you could very much have just trained your, um um you know, your assistant to do if if you'd known that you needed to. Yeah, exactly. And also I think it shows that you really do need to guide it by what we truly value.
00:08:06
Speaker
Last quick question for you, Kate. ah What do you ah do in terms of prompting? One of the things that I used to, I was taught really early early on was how to brief people properly.
00:08:18
Speaker
And so whether it was briefing a spokesperson before they did an interview or whether it was briefing someone who perhaps was working, you know, underneath me and it was all around, okay, how do you brief someone to set them up for success?
00:08:31
Speaker
And that's actually the lens that I've brought into everything I do with AI. So you but is there a format you follow them? Like a structure? Very brief structure, but it's kind of like, okay, what's my objective or my target audience?
00:08:47
Speaker
What's the tone that I want to use and what does success look like? And then kind of just put that in, in whatever shape or form. And most of the time I'd say it delivers a reasonable answer, I always then refine it. Similar to another brief, I kind of go, okay, that's not quite right, or this needs to be refined. But that's always the way that I've approached it.
00:09:08
Speaker
I love that because it really does show the power of like your marketing experience and your knowledge. Just want to go into a little bit more about you and your business, Kate. What inspired you to launch
Inspiration Behind Humane
00:09:20
Speaker
Humane?
00:09:20
Speaker
and My background, as you've mentioned, has always been in a kind of marketing PR comm space. and In the last 10 years, I've definitely dabbled in kind of more GM style, some operations and leadership.
00:09:31
Speaker
um But in the last two years, i actually, i prior to going on that leave, I transitioned kind of really seamlessly into the people and culture space. um And I think that was because i saw a great opportunity. So as a marketer and a brand person,
00:09:47
Speaker
whenever I'd kind of dealt with previous people in culture, it was always kind of like this really rigid style department that either people didn't have a great relationship with or it was very black and white.
00:09:58
Speaker
And I always saw it as a huge opportunity. i always thought, imagine like a brand marketer could do the people and culture side. Like imagine how good the book the internal. Reinventing it, yeah. Yeah, like imagine how creative would be. I mean, know if I think about when I was working Lululemon, my kind of,
00:10:13
Speaker
I was a bit of a face of the brand and I was always out there selling the brand. And I thought, well, that's also how you get people in working for you. And so um i had transitioned into people and culture quite seamlessly and I was working for a marketing agency.
00:10:29
Speaker
And then I went on maternity leave um and after decided to take two years break. And my husband has been working in the AI space um for a while and quite deep, and we've been having lots of conversations over the last year about it. and And I could see in the AI space, there was all this talk about tools and all this talk about how to product productivity efficiency, but there wasn't really anyone talking about the human side about it.
00:10:54
Speaker
So like, what's going to be an impact on the people? What's going to be the impact on our culture? um And for me, I guess that's what I live and breathe. And so I saw a bit of a gap in the market and thought, well, why don't I start going out having conversations with businesses um to really, i guess, get them thinking about this side of AI transformation, not the tools, not the efficiency, the productivity, but I would call the people and culture side the most important side of a digital transformation.
00:11:22
Speaker
And so why why focus on on culture as opposed to tech though? Like what's the, um if I have all the but best tech in the world, isn't that going to solve my problems?
Cultural Shift in AI Transformation
00:11:31
Speaker
No. And the reason being is that AI transformation isn't just a tech shift, it's a mindset shift.
00:11:37
Speaker
So we need to help people understand and embrace that shift. And that for me is what determines success. um And stat just to kind of back this up is that, you know, in 2023, and I'm sure these stats will have increased,
00:11:51
Speaker
McKinsey's show that 70% of digital transformation fail, not because of that the technology didn't work, but because of cultural barriers. So things like unclear vision, poor communication, fear, misaligned leadership.
00:12:08
Speaker
So if you ask me why culture matters more, I'd say it's because AI will scale whatever culture you already have. Right. It will amplify that existing culture. If you have fear and silos, it will scale and amplify that.
00:12:22
Speaker
If you have trust and learning, it will scale and amplify that as well. I saw that you recently ran a LinkedIn poll asking if ah companies should slow down the tech rollouts to allow people's strategies to catch up.
00:12:34
Speaker
Overall, a majority of respondents, myself included, said, yes, ah companies should slow that tech rollout. Aren't you biasing the poll? Aren't you biasing the poll? Perhaps. But my question to you, Kate, is what is your perspective and why do you think a majority of people said yes?
00:12:49
Speaker
I think about 87% or believe companies should slow down the tech to really give that space for the people ah strategies, I guess, to to to evolve or solve.
00:13:04
Speaker
And I do think this reflects strong support for a more human-paced society. approach to transformation. So for me, it was a really clear indicator that people are feeling the gap between the tech speed and the culture readiness.
00:13:17
Speaker
And I think we can all cast our mind back to some type of kind of hope um digital transformation, whether it's a small one like putting a new system in, a new CRM, maybe it's a new marketing tool.
00:13:30
Speaker
And I reckon if we all thought about it, we would have thought about how much effort we put into the planning of it, how much effort we put into the tech itself. All the strategies behind it, yeah. And I reckon if we looked at it there wouldn't be or there'd be a very, very small part that looked at our people side of it. So not only our adoption but our communication, our follow-up.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, and I'd say that poll was quite interesting. I mean, kind of anticipated that that would have been the answer. But for me, it was just it did kind of validate my mission that the market is aware that the people side of transformation is lagging. um yeah And it's also, I would say, a strong signal to business leaders that urgency shouldn't eclipse sustainability. So slowing down isn't about stalling, but it's really it's more, I guess, about and the setting that right pace for adoption and that lasting impact um again there's no point putting in something and then you know in six months time having to kind of i guess re kind of do the whole thing again because it wasn't adopted which you know we can all think of an example of that where it just didn't work
00:14:39
Speaker
Maybe this is related, but i mean Klarna is a kind of i guess ah a really strong cautionary tale of maybe the wrong way of rolling out ai in your business. um are there some examples What can we learn
Success Stories in AI Integration
00:14:52
Speaker
from that? And are there other examples of businesses doing it well?
00:14:55
Speaker
Canva, actually, this is a great example of providing space to experiment. So they gave their teams full week of high priority work or, you know, work that had to happen to explore AI tools.
00:15:10
Speaker
So there was no KPIs. There was no pressure. Basically, they were just given the time to experiment. And I think what was interesting that when you do that, it tells your employees, we trust you.
00:15:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's a strong signal, right? Absolutely. um I think another example that I've referred to before is ANZ. They broke down um these siloed kind of structures that I think sometimes we can see in digital transformations.
00:15:38
Speaker
And they formed cross-functional teams for one of, i think it was for one of their gennna Gen AI pilots. And basically they brought in their tech, they brought in their compliance, they brought in their frontline teams and basically had them all at the same table.
00:15:54
Speaker
And think that's also how trust is built, but also how innovation can scale. um And then another, actually, another great example is Services Australia. um They involved their frontline or, sorry, their customer, I think they must been their customer service ah representatives. They actually involved them in designing their customer-facing AI.
00:16:18
Speaker
And I think if if you think about that, you know, those people are the forefront of, listening to customers, hearing things in daily, in and out. And so that's their stuff actually helped choose the language. They helped flag risks.
00:16:32
Speaker
um They helped define interactions. And so by creating that buy-in and ensuring that the team, I guess, felt involved early on, it actually worked out quite well for them.
00:16:44
Speaker
I guess one of the questions is is are people going to be so excited to ah sign up to help teach the AI when they may be their job that they're teaching again, like Klarna?
Barriers to AI Transformation
00:16:54
Speaker
You know, if we want to create progress our crew, we do need to upskill. We do need to kind of be across, um, what's kind of coming, but that human leadership side is always, always what I would focus on.
00:17:05
Speaker
I think it's moving away from control and compliance towards empathy, towards trust, towards cultural accountability um and leaders, I believe, will be judged um not just by business performance. How do you help leaders shift their teams from fear to curiosity with AI, knowing that you know perhaps in the next few years they may have their role impacted, but in that initial conversation with leaders and their team, how do they spark curiosity?
00:17:36
Speaker
I will always talk until I'm blue in the face about that. AI transformation isn't just a technology shift, but it's mindset. and helping people understand that is really what I think will determine success.
00:17:48
Speaker
um And when I talk about culture, what I, I guess, talk about and what I define it is the shared values, behaviors, um the unwritten rules that shape how things get done inside an organization. So it's feeling the vibe of the organization.
00:18:05
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. i like to think of it as the organization's invisible operating system. It's how people make decisions, solve problems, speak up and a adapt. And when AI gets introduced or when you bring in automation, data augmentation, all of those things, culture becomes a difference between the resistance and the readiness.
00:18:25
Speaker
And because mindset governs behavior, behavior is what drives adoption. And so if people don't understand the why, um they don't see the value to them and they may feel excluded and no amount of tech training or tech rollout will land.
00:18:42
Speaker
From our perspective, though, what advice do you give to leaders when, um you know, they are looking at many of the tasks in their organization being automated by AI. Like what is your inspiration and your top tip for them?
00:18:57
Speaker
not Not to start with the negative, but I think it's really important that we're aware of what can derail an AI transformation. Sure. I think number one is fear-based mindset. And so I think, you know, there's so many stats going around, but, you know, some that I guess I've referenced is that PwC found 31% of workers fear AI will take their job.
00:19:17
Speaker
And I think maybe another 40% or so don't know how it will impact them. Now that's 70% that they're potentially people that there's fear that lead to resistance.
00:19:29
Speaker
And so I think it's been really conscious of knowing that that fear-based mindset can absolutely derail something that, I guess, as something like an AI transformation.
00:19:41
Speaker
And do you feel like that's the biggest barrier right now to that adoption then? Is is it the fear? I do. and I think there's a couple, but I do think the fear is a big, big part of it.
00:19:52
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And a great example is Woolworths. So they really tackled this by involving frontline staff in shaping their AI essentials training.
00:20:02
Speaker
So another, i guess, another example of bringing in staff early, getting that staff curious, getting them to really understand where they're at, um telling them about the why. And so it wasn't just about the tools, but it was really about demystifying AI and showing how it could actually make their job and their tasks better.
00:20:24
Speaker
um I think another part of what derails an AI transformation is poor leadership communication. So in a crisis situation, you know if something is not communicated, people will start to tell their own stories and background conversation will start. And I think this is another thing that can really happen in an um AI transformation is that if leaders don't address AI or only talk about in technical terms, people fill in the blanks and they fill in those blanks with fear. Okay.
00:20:52
Speaker
We've kind of touched on a little bit around not allowing, um well, kind of, I guess I flipped it. So another thing that can derail is not allowing a safe space to experiment or a safe space to play.
00:21:05
Speaker
So what are the cultural enablers of AI transformation? Okay.
Cultural Enablers for AI Transformation
00:21:11
Speaker
And I think numberwise number one is start with why. So for all the Simon Sinek fans out there, always goes back to the why.
00:21:19
Speaker
yeah So linking AI to your business's core process. And the values, would you say? Yeah, I think absolutely, yeah, looking at your existing values and thinking about how AI can sit within them. So, for example, if you have a value that's around transparency, what does AI look like in that?
00:21:39
Speaker
um And, yeah, aligning it. Another one around a successful transformation is upskilling early and continuously. um and I think, again, Canva are a great example of this kind of play, learn, explore um yeah I think when you remove the pressure to get it right, people start experimenting.
00:21:59
Speaker
um And that confidence grows ah within people, which then obviously kind of there's a ripple on effects throughout the business. um Another one is, which is kind of going back to this curiosity point you mentioned, Em, is model curiosity over certainty. Is that a leadership trait then? Or is that a, like, what is that? what Give me some specifics. What does that mean?
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah, so I think leaders don't need to be the experts. They need to be the learners. So, by ex example for example, what could that look like? A manager to saying, you know, I actually used AI to draft this brief, to draft this piece of content. You know, what are we missing, guys?
00:22:38
Speaker
How do we bring more into it? Is there something that i've missed here? And I think that really shows humility and invites others in. And I think just another one is this leading with the values and ethics. So, um yeah, thinking about how, and I think this is a question that's a really good one to ask is how will our values show up in our use of AI? And I think that's even just a really good thing to do as a group.
00:23:05
Speaker
So if we stand for creativity or we tre um stand for inclusivity, does our AI strategy ah reflect that? You know, it's quite interesting integrating ai into the culture.
00:23:18
Speaker
I can see like the ripple on effects of how it'll actually lend itself to really strengthening a business and having to be a bit more future-proof than others who are very, like Klarna, short sure um short term viewed. Is that right? Short termism. really Yeah, short termism.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think a kind of simple example that people, it seems to resonate is that I always think about AI and comparing it to other tools we use. So if we think about spell check, you know, we don't feel like we're cheating using spell check or Google instead of re memorizing encyclopedias, you know, that doesn't feel like we're cheating, but what it does, it helps us work smarter and it helps us
Leadership and AI Adoption
00:24:07
Speaker
work faster. And so I think AI can be another tool that's like that.
00:24:12
Speaker
What are the mindset shifts that leaders need to have when rolling out AI across their business? Yeah, so I think it's that curiosity piece.
00:24:23
Speaker
um I think it's that ah knowing that you're not going to get it right all the time. So as a leader, that this is not a set and forget.
00:24:35
Speaker
And what I like to think about is that culture isn't static. And so you can't say, oh, great, I've done culture, tick. It's not. It's ongoing. And so it's one of those things that needs to be checked in on regularly and needs to be, I guess, worked on regularly.
00:24:54
Speaker
So I'm i don't get hearing like yeah curiosity then really is curiosity and and and repetition. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that vulnerability. So, you know, we've touched on the fact that a leader could come into a meeting and say,
00:25:09
Speaker
I use on this to draft this. What do you guys think? um Instead of perhaps, you know, having that fear-based mentality that people are sitting in the room, they've all used AI, but no one is going to say it because they're scared.
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah. It's the sharing the the failures, sharing the learnings and bringing everyone on the journey, that yeah vulnerability piece. Yeah. And I think they're all skills that if we go back to 101 leadership,
00:25:36
Speaker
That's what it would look like. So it's not new. um It's not groundbreaking. But I think what's really my point here is that we need to go back to that.
00:25:47
Speaker
And that needs to be ah part of an AI transformation. It's not an afterthought. So it's not great. Here's our strategy for our... um ai digital transformation oh and then you know we need to tell people about it and we need to make sure that it's cool what is our people and culture strategy and how does that form a big part of that digital transformation yeah and it does it is well understood leadership theory that is just being applied to ai that's how so that's kind of the strong sense i'm getting here so people are just thinking about they're just reacting
00:26:21
Speaker
Yeah, and they're thinking about AI from a productivity and efficiency point of view. Right. The tech and the tools point of view. The tech the tools. Cool. What are the tools we need? And I think there's obviously a lot of reactivity going at the moment where it's like we haven't got it.
00:26:33
Speaker
How do we bring the tools together? quick, let's just bring something in or what ah what's the area of the business? Yeah, yeah. What's the area of the business that we need to cut costs? Cool. Customer service, we can bring it in and we can get rid of people.
00:26:45
Speaker
And it's that kind of knee-jerk reaction or even just not thinking about the people and culture side of things and what the implications are going to be. What would you say to a leader of a business where they have a bit of a scenario where there are really heavy AI advanced users and adopters versus really cautious ah people who are lagging behind.
00:27:08
Speaker
It's like anything you've got to look at kind of your two different audiences. I don't think you can blend an answer or a solution across all of them because essentially you've got two different kind of audiences within your business.
00:27:21
Speaker
um I'd be looking at the the audience that perhaps ah isn't as well versed. How do we upskill them? How do we provide training um to to really, I guess, help elevate and understanding why is it that they're fear-based and really understanding the why behind, you know, yeah or is it just that they haven't had time?
00:27:42
Speaker
Because obviously fear and time, very, very different. So understanding that first, a great thing to do is how do we get the ones who are have perhaps used it for a while, how do we get use cases for them? So how do we get, you know, a, somebody marketing who's been ahead of the game, how do we get them to really tell a story to the rest of the business around how they've saved two hours a week? And is that about, is that about celebrating those use cases then? Is that what that, is that the answer?
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's a combination. I think it's about sharing again, back to this vulnerability, like how, what are we doing? How are we experimenting? And then yeah, how are we sharing our wins and our failures to then help, I guess, bring those other people along on the journey. It almost ties back to that LinkedIn poll that I referenced earlier, like the tech, slowing down the tech rollout to ensure the people are brought on that journey.
00:28:31
Speaker
And to be honest, when I saw that poll, it took me a moment. like probably about two to three minutes of really sitting there wondering what was the best answer from my perspective, because if you slow down tech, could you be leapfrogged by your competitors?
00:28:46
Speaker
But if you don't slow down tech, then you risk alienating like your people and the culture and your business. So classic innovators dilemma. Yeah, absolutely. I think again, it's not necessarily, I mean, that was a pretty black white question, but I'd say the answer isn't necessarily about slowing down the scaling. It's about setting the right pace for adoption and that lasting impact.
00:29:13
Speaker
Do you have a sense of how many businesses do or don't have ai policies at this point?
Necessity of AI Policies
00:29:19
Speaker
I wonder, have you seen any stats on that? I haven't, but I'm guessing it's still surprisingly low.
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah, and I think one thing that I kind of probably get a little bit tripped up on is like, I'm not sure why, because um the reason I say that is that, you know, you, a poly I mean, look, you can find, you know, a simple AI policy on, you can use AI to, to you know, draft one up.
00:29:46
Speaker
yeah What I'd say though is I'd be spending on the time on rolling the policy out. So that's where I'd be putting my time, not on drafting it or finding it or whatever it is, but I'd be spending it on, okay, ensuring how do we get everyone on board on this?
00:29:59
Speaker
um But you're saying at the very least every company needs to have an AI policy. Yeah. Well, otherwise, like what, it'd be like a company having no leave policy in a business, right?
00:30:11
Speaker
So imagine you started and there was no leave policy and you're like, cool. So can I just have every Friday off or like the amount of questions that would go to your manager and like the time wasted on asking if this is okay or not.
00:30:23
Speaker
Yeah. And maybe that's too simple. I don't know. But for me, I'm just like, well, there needs to be some sort of policy in place. Um, I actually was talking to, um, a company, uh, the other day, quite a big company.
00:30:35
Speaker
And one of their, I was kind of asking, um, one of their departments around what they're using it for and, that person, he said, oh, I probably shouldn't be putting customer personal information in there. And I was like, no, do you guys have policy see around that?
00:30:50
Speaker
You really shouldn't. I don't think so. And i'm like, cool, I'd probably start there. So again, i think because people don't, there's just no one's talking enough about it. And so when people don't talk about it, people just take matters into their own hands. They're like, oh cool, I'm just going to use ChatGPT or I'm going to use it, yeah but I'm just not necessarily going to think about all those things.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting. I actually um i started a new job next week and in the onboarding paperwork, there was a specific AI policy. And I told my husband like, oh, I'm so excited to read this because this is very relevant. People love reading policy. That's my favorite part of a new job. Yes, but I wanted to get quite clear because yeah I want to ensure the the organization is aligned with me and wanting to use ai for technology.
00:31:34
Speaker
ah scaling up projects and efficiencies, but also you have to do it in a responsible manner. yeah And I think going back to your point about the business values, being quite transparent and understanding that your staff are going to use it, whether or not you say it's okay, but being quite clear about the information that you do put in.
00:31:49
Speaker
It's quite concerning that, you know, business leaders are putting in PII data to Gen AI models. That's, yeah, it does not sit too well with me. If people were to take things out of this conversation.
Shift in AI Conversation: Augmentation Over Automation
00:32:02
Speaker
I think one of the the big things that I'd say is stop asking, how do we get more out of people with AI, but more, what, how can we do more for people with AI?
00:32:13
Speaker
Right. So reframing the conversation to be more of augmentation. Yeah, because it's that is a much less scary word you hear as an employee compared to automation. Yeah. yeah sorry Even as business leaders, I think it's important that we look at augmentation before automation because how do we know? like how do we How do we know that you know we might want to upskill our staff and we might spend time doing that and realize that that's actually what we need to focus on versus a great example, Klana, where they went in and they cut 1,200 employees customer service staff and yeah looked great at first 75% productivity increase all of that and then they realized that the fact that they that they their employees lost trust their customers lost trust and the irony out of that situation was that
00:33:02
Speaker
one of their kind of core propositions was relationships. Just to wrap up, Kate, because this time has gone so quickly. and We have loved having you on the pod. From your perspective, are you an AI optimist?
00:33:14
Speaker
Are you a realist or are you a skeptic or a pessimist? An optimist. I'm excited when I think about what it can do. Um, I'm excited by what I've already seen it do. And that's probably quite a small part. Um, if I personally think about it, I don't know if I could have launched my business, um, how I've done it. Like I, I use AI to build my website.
00:33:39
Speaker
Um, I've all these things that, you know, and it, it, it Yeah, I don't know if I could have done that. um I've built some online training programs using AI and I'm just not sure I could have done that um to the quality and also at the speed that without AI. So I think I'm optimistic. Okay, thank you very much um for joining us today. It's been, I think, really, really ah Great to hear your perspective. And and I feel like I have learned a a fair bit. I mean, I took some notes around making sure that we make people have a safe space and that you're tackling that fear and ah aligning with values. I mean, those are all the kind of things that I took. Was there anything else that that you want to leave us with?
00:34:20
Speaker
When you think about AI, think about your people and culture. Think about what you want for them um and plan for it. Great advice. Well, again, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:34:31
Speaker
Thank you, Kate. Thanks, guys. I really enjoyed that chat with Kate. I really valued her perspective coming at the AI transformation conversation from more of that people and culture lens.
00:34:44
Speaker
Yeah. You know, the thing that I kind of thought about was i wonder if anybody's looking back to what What was the rollout of email like? What was the rollout of the PC like? And what are the lessons learned from those? Because they were disruptive technologies when people put PCs on desks. And it's it's going to be one of those as seismic changes for our business lives and personal lives as well.
00:35:07
Speaker
Yeah, spot on. I think there's a lot to be learned. And to Kate's point about you know ensuring that it's embedded within the culture as that invisible operating system, that that's where we'll see the business successes.
00:35:19
Speaker
Couldn't agree more. All right, let's wrap things up. um Look, thank you very much, everyone. um It's been lovely to have us. We'll be back in your feed shortly. um And please remember, the intelligence might be artificial, but the wins, they're all real.
00:35:34
Speaker
See you next time.
00:35:37
Speaker
This episode was brought to you by Testchimp. Testchimp is a web developer's best friend. Meet the QA co-pilot that knows your code better than you do. Testchimp uses deep runtime context to automate your testing workflows.
00:35:52
Speaker
Generate scenarios, write scripts, and fix bugs all in one place. Stop wasting time and start shipping quality code faster. Bugs suck, but finding bugs doesn't have to with Testchimp.