Transcript
Speaker: They say that dreams are necessary, that what captivates our minds in those hours is psychologically important, a way to work through confusions, to explore unspoken possibilities, to relive pivotal moments, and even to face, albeit often through symbols of figures or images, our deepest fears.
Speaker: Sigmund Freud said that the interpretation of dreams is a royal road to a knowledge of the unconscious activities of the mind. This can be a beautiful image, a road paved with gold and rubies when those dreams are recollections of positive childhood memories, when our imaginary selves are achieving things we didn't think possible, or when we catch glimpses of past loved ones who give us strength through those long missed smiles.
Speaker: It's when the image turns darker that the cold sweat beads on the brow. Our bodies lurch in our beds, our minds desperate to escape the maze our dream has placed us in. A state when dangers manifest and we can't make it stop.
Speaker: When those dreams seep their way into our lives, we sometimes feel that it's a psychic moment. What I mean is that we wake up with every expectation of seeing those same fears, standing, tangible and embodied in our room right next to us. We fear that what we created in our dream is now real because we dreamed it.
Speaker: What might seem to give credence to this very idea is that some psychics rely on their dreams as insight into the quote unquote real world and feel these premonitions reveal the dreamer being in tune with the universe. Again, that what we imagine is then manifested in the living universe. Being in tune can seem to imply harmony, but what if the insight reveals our own end?
Speaker: What if it reveals to us a universe in which we no longer exist? That could be true in our case today. As you will soon hear my sleuth hounds, it was literally a nightmare turned reality. This is the story of Cynthia Anderson.
Speaker: Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
Speaker: We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement.
Speaker: so justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. Before we begin our show today, Maggie and I want to remind you about our newest challenge.
Speaker: We were so amazed at your willingness and your ability at getting us to our 15 written comment goal so quickly that we decided we need to set our sights even higher for our next challenge. We want to get a total of 150 ratings on iTunes. We currently have 78, so although we have a long way to go, we're now more than halfway there.
Speaker: It only takes a second so if you're listening to us on iTunes please please click that five star rating. We've got listeners from all over the world so while we are asking a big favor we know that you can do it. It may take a little longer than last time but when we get to that 150 ratings on iTunes we will do another bonus episode. So just make sure that you follow us on social media
Speaker: and you can find us at Coffee and Case's podcast on Facebook, or at Coffee Case's podcast on Instagram, or as always, listen in to us each week to know when that bonus episode will air. Alright, Maggie, let's get into our show. For a long while, longer than she cared to remember, Cynthia Anderson, called Cindy by her friends, had been haunted by a recurring nightmare.
Speaker: Each night, Maggie, lying down, hoping to get a good night's sleep, the 20 -year -old would wake up in anxious sweats after dreaming of being both kidnapped and murdered by a stranger. Oh, no. Yeah. So now, luckily, Maggie,
Speaker: I don't know about you, but my fears usually end when I close my eyes, because while I am terrified when I, just like you, I'm taking my trash can down to the end of my driveway in the dark, and I'm thinking like, there's a kidnapper around the corner. Or that car's gonna grab me. Right, but when I go to sleep, I'm usually so exhausted from grading, teaching, I just immediately fall asleep, and I don't even remember my dreams anymore. No, sometimes I do, but it's very few and far in between. Yeah.
Speaker: It takes you less than like so many minutes to fall asleep that you have like a lack of sleep, like you're exhausted. Mine's like a media. As soon as I lay my head down, I'm gone. I'm telling you, I was still running this. You could count down from 10 and I'm out. You could me too, I swear. Even if I'm not tired. Yes! Nope, I'm gone. So like, I'm wondering if that is something that comes with age like this.
Speaker: Well, but I mean, kids lack sleep too, but maybe we're just years of sleep deprivation. Because I can remember when I was younger having dreams all the time. And I can remember having recurring nightmares. I don't know if you've ever had recurring ones, but mine always, they seem to involve somebody chasing me, like trying to hurt me.
Speaker: And for some reason, even though I was like running as fast as I could go, it was like I was in slow motion, like partly paralyzed. And they can still catch up to me. Yeah. Now, luckily I always woke up before they actually caught me, but that didn't make my dreams any less terrifying. I always have the reoccurring dream where I'm like falling and you do that like flat jerk and you're sleeping out. And then the day before last I had, or not before last, I had a dream that a worm was burrowing in my eye.
Speaker: But my eye had hurt really bad that day with allergies, so maybe that's why, but I woke up and I thought, Anthony, I was like, is there something in my eye? Is there a worm? Well, even though ours, we wake up and, you know, everything's fine, Cindy's dreams were different. Oh, no. She was caught in them.
Speaker: killed. In her dream? In her dream. Okay, my grandma always said if you died in your dream, you died in real life. Yeah, I always heard that too. But I know that waking up from that kind of a dream had to be a different form of terror. Yeah. But Cindy,
Speaker: with her fingers still slightly shaking from fear, had to pull herself together and get to work. And that would be hard. I mean it takes me a while to like realize that that wasn't real. And on that Tuesday morning she made her way, as always, to the law firm in Toledo, Ohio where she was a legal secretary.
Speaker: Now at work, with the fog of sleep cleared, maybe she was able to convince herself that her nightmares were just a dream and that she was now part of this realm of reality, something far removed from those dream terrors. And I can picture her looking out the law firm window at the building opposite her, just trying to get the warm sun on her face to feel alive again. Shake it off. That's right. But then, blinking just to be sure,
Speaker: She saw with horror that it was there again. It? I can imagine her thinking, nope, this cannot be. And I imagine her rubbing her eyes vigorously to see more clearly. But it was there. In reality, not in a dream, the message
Speaker: How could this be? It was just painted over the other day. Now it was back. What Cindy saw, Maggie, on the wall of that building opposite her, was a spray painted message that read, I love you, Cindy, in all capital letters, buy GW. But Cindy didn't know a GW.
Speaker: It certainly wasn't her boyfriend with whom she was planning to leave for Bible college within two weeks. And so you can imagine all of a sudden you're right, you're having these nightmares of being kidnapped and murdered. And now you're seeing messages, right? Imagine seeing a message like left somewhere painted on your wall in your classroom that said, I love you Maggie. And then signed by like,
Speaker: your secret admirer and then you paint over it and then they come back and it's there the next day. I would be like we need to leave today.
Speaker: We're packing up our belongings and leaving today. And I would be so terrified. Bible college would be like, yes, perfect. Amen. Get me away from this evil. So events like the nightmares and the messages had made Cindy obviously skittish and experienced cold sweats even though that summer of 1981 was sweltering.
Speaker: The problem was that Cindy often found herself alone at the law office. I'm telling you, we all know, you listeners as well, what tricks our minds can play on us, especially when no one is around.
Speaker: So this, the school that we work at, if you are here after dark, and I think I've said this before. I think we both have. It's terrifying. It's terrifying. Yes, it is. I run. But see, even if I'm at my house, I don't know about you. I hear noises. I see things in my peripheral vision. My dog will randomly start barking.
Speaker: And you're like, oh, what are they barking at? And I mean, especially if I've been watching too many true crime documentaries. Oh, I don't do that alone. Well, by the time Rodney's back from wherever he went, I mean, I'm convinced that somebody's trying to get into our house or our house is haunted. Yeah. Right? Like one of the two. And if you add to that fear,
Speaker: because it's night time? I'm like a hopeless case. I'm such a scaredy cat, which doesn't make sense because we're doing this podcast. I hope I am a scaredy cat. I really am. Well, luckily for Cindy, when she told her law office colleagues about her fears, they thought them at least legitimate enough that they installed a buzzer at her desk in the front room of the office.
Speaker: And this buzzer, in the event of emergency, if she were to ring it, would alert the business next door that something was amiss and for them to call the police or come check on Cindy. So kind of like when you see movies on TV and a bank gets robbed and they have that little secret buzzer down below the table that can summon the police. Right. Kind of like that. Okay. And so, instead of buzzing the police... It was the business next door. Exactly. Gotcha.
Speaker: And I didn't read anywhere why they thought whoever was in the business store was a good person to buzz. I mean, maybe that person was like a big burly, like strong person who could come in and like look.
Speaker: or at least could just call the police, which then you wouldn't be able to do if you were in trouble. Yeah, maybe like if their whole business was occupied with whatever was happening, then at least the people next door could get to a phone when they might not be able to.
Speaker: And as an additional safeguard, when Cindy was in the office alone, she also left the door to the office locked. Yeah, good practice. Again, I do this at home, right? I do not sit around with the door unlocked. And if Anthony's gone, I check it like it's habitually. Like if I have to go to sleep before he gets home from work, I'm like, did I walk it? And in the back of my mind, I know I did, but I check it again. Right.
Speaker: Since the lawyers who owned the firm, Rabbit and Feldstein, according to a source I read, were out that morning of August 4, 1981 in court, Cindy had arrived to work, gotten their desks ready for the day as she typically did, and settled in at her desk to read some of a novel just waiting for the gentleman to return.
Speaker: And from everything I read, Cindy really enjoyed this job. Yeah, I would enjoy a job where I could sit down at my desk and read a novel, too. I can't even imagine it. I really could. Like, I have a desk, but... And we have novels. Yeah, but the purpose is to hold all the papers I have to grade. Over the novels that they read. So there goes the joy. Yeah, we're kidding. We love it. We're tired by the end of the day.
Speaker: Well, according to a variety of sources that I read while researching, Cindy had deep roots in this community and she cared about its future in addition to coming from an extremely religious household and she just wanted the best for everybody around her. She sounds like a lovely lady. I know. And I mean, maybe that was one of the elements that kind of led her into this present position working for lawyers who defended those in the community whose voices were often taken from them.
Speaker: In an article by Robin Erb, James Rabbit, one of the lawyers who owned the firm, was quoted as saying the following about Cindy's work for the firm, quote, she looked at her job almost like missionary work. She felt she was serving people and wanted to do her best, end quote. But
Speaker: that help for clients from the Rabbit and Feldstein Law Office also brought Cindy into contact with some unsavory characters, including drug dealers and their posses. According to an article by Keith Harriston published on August 8, 1981, a maintenance worker had seen Cindy in the law office at 9 .45 a .m. on August 4.
Speaker: By 10 a .m., however, some clients tried to call the law office, but the phone just continuously rang. Cindy never picked up. At noon, when Rabbit and Feldstein returned to their East Manhattan Boulevard office from court, they unlocked the door, as they knew they would need to do, right? After all, they had left Cindy there alone. That was her custom, to lock the door when she was alone.
Speaker: According to an article in the Toledo Blade written by Robin Herb and published on July 29, 2001, when James Rabbit and Jay Feldstein stepped in, the smell of nail polish still wafted through the air as if Cindy had just stepped out.
Speaker: Their desks were arranged again, right? As always. Cindy always did that for them. And it was ready for them to begin the tedious paperwork process. The radio was on. So was the air conditioning. So everything's normal. Everything is in place. But the phone was ringing. And the mail was still wedged in the mail slot.
Speaker: So where was Cindy, right? She's the one who answered the phones. She's the one who checked the mail at 9 45. This is at noon when they got back and clients reported they tried to call it 10 and no one answered. So we have a 15 minute window from when she was seen and when we realized
Speaker: Well, no, because they realized it noon when they returned from court. So from 9 .45, because she could have, I guess, missed a call. Right. Right. So about two hours though. So not a long time. Right. And usually they said when she would step out, she would put the phone on hold. So calls would go to her recording. It wouldn't just continuously ring. Her purse and her keys were gone.
Speaker: as if maybe she had stepped out to get lunch, right? It's noon, but her car was still parked outside of the law office. And later we found out it was locked. So the lawyers look around the law office and they noted that nothing in the office was out of place. And she had left the novel she was reading on her desk.
Speaker: I'm getting anxious. Well, it was that novel that immediately caught J. Feldstein's attention in like this inexplicable way, right? Like, why am I drawn to this novel? He picked it up and called James Rabbit over. The page on which the novel lay open sent chills down their spines.
Speaker: Maggie on the open page of the novel was a scene during which the heroine of the novel was violently attacked and kidnapped at knife point. Oh my god. So could this have been an omen? Like she maybe left it there on purpose like as a hint. Right.
Speaker: Well, a quote from James Rabbit, cited by Robin Erb in that Toronto Blade article, notes that he ominously stated, quote, you knew right away that something was wrong. You knew she wasn't coming back. This is where the music should go. I know. So you have to question, had her dreams stepped out of this realm of imagination, right? This is her recurring dream.
Speaker: Hi. Wow. Well, Rabbit and Feldstein called to Cindy, right, in the office. No answer from somewhere else in the office. Then they called her family. Her sister answered the phone. Has Cindy contacted you today? And Cindy's sister, Christine Savage, remembers that her heart began pounding the moment the question registered. So did people in her family know
Speaker: that she'd been having these dreams they knew about the nightmares yes okay but Cindy's sister Christine had not heard from Cindy then they called Cindy's father air conditioner repairman Michael Anderson and while he had not heard from Cindy either he did hurry home so he could be there either for her return in the best case or news
Speaker: the worst. The police were called at 2 30 p .m. about Cindy's disappearance. This is all very quick. Right. It's like boom boom boom. Right. The last we know someone saw her 9 45. They return at noon. They make phone calls. She's not there. Police are informed at 2 30. Yeah.
Speaker: Well while in the years after Cindy's disappearance her father has experienced many other life changes there were two things Maggie that he did not change. Number one his hope that his daughter would return unscathed and number two
Speaker: his phone number. Oh, you know how that breaks my heart. I know. And we talked about it with Laurene Rand. Yes. And he didn't change it just in case Sydney or anyone linked with her would try to reach out to him. And from everything that I found, he kept that number until his death. Oh my God.
Speaker: Well, in that Toledo Blade article that I've been mentioning by Robin Erb, Mr. Anderson half expects, he said, each time he picks up the phone to hear Cindy's voice, apologizing for her long absence and asking to come back into his life. Erb details Anderson's emotions with the following statement, quote, they tell me I'm crazy, he says, rubbing his hands over a face that has worn too much sadness. Maybe I am.
Speaker: But what am I supposed to do? Give up? Seems like everyone else has, end quote. The dad's really good to me. That pulls at my heart. Well, we're gonna talk about the dad a little bit later. Oh no. After that day, Maggie, no phone call came to anyone.
Speaker: And despite the fact that almost every source I read noted that Cindy had a substantial amount of money in her bank account, it was never touched, nor was her social security card ever used. When police began investigating the disappearance, a new clue came to light. One client, Larry Mullins, mentioned something odd that had happened the day before.
Speaker: He stated that he was standing by Cindy's desk when the telephone rang. She picked it up, as she normally did, but quickly hung up the receiver as if the caller had said something disturbing. It was probably the person that wrote on the wall, Weirdo. Well, we're gonna talk about that too.
Speaker: Mullins declared that whatever that look was that she gave, he thought she was so upset by what was said that he called the police department to let them know about it and to see if they would stop by for a welfare check. One source I read Maggie, and I couldn't corroborate this information with any other sources, but
Speaker: It said that Cindy had been receiving these upsetting phone calls for months and that those calls, in addition to the nightmares in the graffiti, was why she had requested the installation of the buzzer.
Speaker: part of the problem, Maggie, is that she never told anyone exactly what the caller said. Okay, we talk about this a lot. Tell people things. Yes! I mean, I feel like we say this every week. If something scary or upsetting happens,
Speaker: Talk about it. Yeah. Tell a friend. I mean, you think back to Blair Adams, something was going on at work, some problems that could have led to his disappearance. And he even referred to it as like an it. Right. Think about Amy Mihalovic. She's asked to keep this secret about a phone call that she received. I mean, I feel like it's good to have like a confidant anyway, but especially in these cases. And I have to wonder like,
Speaker: Would everything have turned out differently? Could any of these cases have been prevented if they had just told the secrets or the concerns? Well, I'm just telling, like, I'm just telling you all.
Speaker: I would tell people. You can't, I mean like, no, no. And we were watching, Anthony and I were watching something on like Netflix, like a documentary, and the lady did not turn her husband in for like doing something bad. And I was like, sorry, Anthony. I was calling the police right away. I know, like I couldn't live with the guilt. And especially if I were that scared about something,
Speaker: I would tell Anthony right away because he's like who protects me from everything. Right. And so I would tell him right away. And have we not seen enough movies where even if they say don't call the police or your family member is gonna be harmed then they're probably planning on harming your family member anyway and the only way to stop him is by involving the police. Yeah. So just tell somebody. But I also know Maggie that these what -ifs they rarely help.
Speaker: In fact, they often just result in doubt, growing fears, anger, and they never lead the way to closure. Regardless, closure is something that has never come with this case, Maggie. No body was ever found. No weapon ever located.
Speaker: not even a crime scene ever identified. So it's literally like she fell off the base of there. Right. Because nothing was amiss in this law office when the lawyers got back. Like nothing is out of place. And Cindy Anderson did not return to attend Bible college with her boyfriend two weeks later, but was instead a name passed along by community members reading her missing posters.
Speaker: About a month after her disappearance, there was a call to law enforcement which provided a very vague tip about Cindy. Okay, I have a question and you might address it later.
Speaker: the spray paint on the building that never occurs again. It's a theory of what could have happened to her that I'll get to. The phone calls to the office, the mysterious ones. We will also talk about that. Okay, too many continues. So that vague tip that comes in a month after her disappearance. According to an article by Kat Lee on December 12th, 2018, the caller, a frightened woman,
Speaker: whispered to the police that Cindy was alive and was being held captive in the basement of a house. No. And here's where the message gets cryptic, right? Because that's pretty specific, right? She's in a basement in a house. That's scary.
Speaker: Yes, that's very scary. But here's the cryptic part. This woman on the phone call, she said the house is a white house, okay, still specific, but that there were, quote, two houses on either side of the white house, so two houses total, one on either side, and that they were all three owned by the same family, end quote. So she's kept in a white house in the middle and there's a house on each side, all three are owned by the same family. I feel like that's,
Speaker: very like i feel like you should easily be able to say oh that's the blah blah family right and this is why i say it's very cryptic because even the woman detailed that cindy was being held by the son of that family who had stayed home while his family took an out -of -town trip
Speaker: But when law enforcement probed the woman for more details, she just hung up. How big is this city that she went missing in? So Toledo, Ohio in the 80s was like somewhere around 350 ,000 people. Okay, so not like a small little town where everyone knows everyone. No, no, right. This is a substantially large city. And so when you get this tip that there are three houses and one of them is white.
Speaker: There's a lot of homes that are white in this large. Right. And that house that she referenced was never found, nor was the woman who made the call ever located.
Speaker: So there have been four main theories about what happened to Cindy. So as you can see, we still don't know. This is so crazy to me. No body has ever been found. She has never been located alive. The fact that there's like zero clues. Right. Except this phone call. And the book. And the book. And the weirdo message. Right.
Speaker: So, Maggie and our Sleuthhounds, I am going to quickly go through the four main theories, and then I want you to tell me what you think is the most likely theory, Maggie. But Sleuthhounds, we want to hear from you, too. So theory number one is GW. I cannot just add nothing to do with this case. Yes. Every time I hear GW, I automatically think... George W. Yes!
Speaker: Yes! Every time! I don't want to say GW. Every time.
Speaker: Not to say that GW, the president, he might associate it with this. No, we are not saying that. So theory one is GW, and remember those were the initials of the spray painted I love you Cindy message on the building wall. The police quickly deemed that this spray painted message was a work of a maintenance man who worked in the shopping plaza across the street from the law office. Still creepy.
Speaker: listen to the rest of the story maggie and then tell me what you think. So he was actually ruled out as a suspect in her disappearance because he didn't know Cindy Anderson nor from what we could tell did Cindy Anderson know him. In fact,
Speaker: In some of my research for this case, I found on one particular website, a woman named Cindy claiming that those messages were for her, that her boyfriend at the time often spray painted his I love you declarations all over the town in places that they would frequent. And if they had been painted over, he would repaint them.
Speaker: and that they often ate at a pizza parlor in that shopping plaza and she remembers him painting her a message there. And according to this website, when she saw, this particular case was on Unsolved Mysteries, when she saw the episode air, she was like, she saw them talk about the spray painted message and she recognized that as a message from her boyfriend to her.
Speaker: And she said that she called Unsolved Mysteries and said, listen, I'm the Cindy of that message. It wasn't Cindy Anderson. And so to try to explain it away and that she thought that they were going to remove it from the episode, but then other people were commenting that it hadn't been removed. And I guess kind of questioning whether she was, this woman on this website was telling the truth that she was the Cindy of the message. Well, the woman who had claimed that the messages were for her
Speaker: She actually stated the man's name, obviously a man with initials G -W, and she even uploaded photos of letters that he had written to her when they were younger, and they had on them the similar message as the spray painted one. Like it would say, I love you G -W, or from G -W, or I love you Cindy from G -W, which is what was painted on the walls.
Speaker: So, I mean, a little bit odd way to say, I love you. We talked about this. We're good with raising canes or new ink pens. Like, I don't need a spray painted. If you want to be like super extravagant, we're good with diamonds. Right. So,
Speaker: I don't know. I feel like it's so coincidental though. It is. Like what are the odds? But it is a big city so there's gonna be a lot of Cindy's. Right. And that's a pretty common name. And this is a public area. It's not like it was in a quiet suburban neighborhood. Or like the side of her house or on her car. Right. Oh that'd be even creepier.
Speaker: Theory two is that Cindy simply ran away, perhaps staging her own abduction.
Speaker: Those who believe this theory argue that Cindy belonged to a family of upright Christians who, per Robin Herb's article, lived their lives based upon the principles of, quote, hard work, self -discipline, and unwavering faith in God, end quote. Their family, according to most reports, went to every church service, church prayer meeting, and church event. I did too, girl. Yeah, I did too. That was pretty common.
Speaker: As I stated earlier, Cindy and her boyfriend, a member of Cindy's church as well, were to attend Bible college and were scheduled to leave only two weeks after her disappearance. Many want to argue that Cindy was in some way rebelling against this lifestyle and might have felt suffocated by the expectation to behave in a certain way, that she may have felt trapped.
Speaker: I know. I mean, maybe it's just my personality, but if I was dating someone and I didn't like their lifestyle, I would just break up with them and move on. Or like if my family had certain expectations of me,
Speaker: But I didn't agree with them that I would just be okay with not meeting my family's expectations, right? I mean, I guess that's just my personality. Well, I guess this theory goes that Cindy couldn't escape that the expectations felt so extreme to her that she felt the
Speaker: Maybe just leaving the situation entirely was the only way. Well, they point out that this dream of being kidnapped reveals psychologically that you feel you're being controlled either by particular people or emotions and you're trying to escape and make your own autonomous path.
Speaker: And those who believe this theory, they also often comment that that book opened to the exact page on which the lead character is abducted at knife point is a little bit too coincidental. Yeah, it's almost like, novelty. Like, I feel like I should read that in a novel. Right, right. Because, I mean, after all, it's not likely that an abductor would be like, oh, I remember this book.
Speaker: On page 172 is where the abduction and knife point occurs. You should turn it to that page. Let's turn it to, there is a clue, right, as a sign. I can now see. Let me put my fingerprint on it as well. Right, and I mean, I feel like Cindy also, if she's actually being abducted, wouldn't have time to then be like, oh, wait, before you take me. Whoa, let me finish this page. Wait, and turn to that exact page for it to be a clue for someone.
Speaker: And the idea that the book could have like randomly fallen open to the exact page that could indicate what happened to her, I mean that idea is even more far -fetched than the other ones. So they argue, those who believe this theory, that Cindy had time to plan out this disappearance. And if you have time, then the page could be strategically marked.
Speaker: Some even go so far as to believe that the nightmares and the phone calls could have been staged as well. Yeah, but she still has to have somebody call her unless she's just hanging up on normal regular people.
Speaker: Now, nearly every account of what I read of someone who touted this theory that she had staged her own abduction had a common denominator to explain why they felt this theory the most likely. Cindy's dad. Most noted. Now, and we'll talk about this, like what kind of vibe, right? And we talked about, I mean, those comments that he made earlier were heartbreaking.
Speaker: but almost every single account that I read noted something quote, creepy.
Speaker: or, quote, odd about his behavior, particularly in the Unsolved Mysteries episode about his daughter, Cindy's case. Okay, I kinda wanna see what he looks like so I can make a judgment if I think he's a creep or not. Okay. I'm gonna Google him. Okay. Okay, so I just Googled him. There's like one photo, basically, on Google, and at first you're like, aw, you look really sweet, but then you're kinda like,
Speaker: that you kind of look a little creepy, right? He's smiling without teeth. That's creepy to me. Holding a picture of his missing daughter. Yeah, and it's like they're looking down on him. I don't know. It's just weird vibes. Well, and I think that's exactly the impression that he made on everyone who watched this Unsolved Mysteries. Now I want to watch this Unsolved Mysteries episode. Well, in his interview, I'll give you some insight into it.
Speaker: And again, this is according to the people who believe this theory. They said, instead of focusing on finding his daughter or figuring out who might have done something to her, that in this episode, it was almost as though he suspected she had left of her own accord.
Speaker: And he kept mentioning that in the weeks leading up to her disappearance, she was becoming more, quote unquote, worldly. And he kept talking about how she had been wearing more makeup than normal and worrying about her weight, even skipping breakfast. And he noted that this was a change in his previous, and I quote, obedient daughter.
Speaker: Okay, so how old is she? She was like 19, I believe, or 20. So she was getting ready to go off to college. Oh, yeah. Okay, so, but I feel like that time in your life when you are transitioning from high school to college, you do go through a significant change in just like your life.
Speaker: So maybe that's why she started wearing more makeup. I remember when I graduated, huge mistake, when I graduated high school, I cut my hair, like up to like my collar bone. And it was so long, don't do that people. But like maybe that is kind of why she's wearing more makeup. She's trying to find herself. She's also a teen, early 20s, you're going off to college, it's kind of hard to be quote,
Speaker: Obedient. And it's those comments like that that have led many people to suspect that there was some sort of oppressive home life that maybe led her to question, you know, what may have seemed to her like this preordained future, like she couldn't get out of. And maybe she was rebelling. Maybe she was trying to escape. Maybe she had found somebody new and was planning to leave in a way that she could avoid blame and suspicion, right?
Speaker: I mean, you talked about earlier, you would just be like, okay, well, I've disappointed this family member, but maybe because she felt so powerless in the situation that she thought that this was the only way. And I mean, I think that's probably easy for me to say. I mean, that's always been something that I have kept in the back of my mind just growing up. I've never wanted to disappoint my mom. No, I don't. Like, I've always wanted to
Speaker: be like my mom because I just think she's such a strong and amazing person. And so like when all my friends were going to frat parties, I never did any of that in college because I just wasn't, I knew that my mom, that would make my mom sad. But I also had a very supportive
Speaker: mom and so that was she was somebody that I was like yeah I don't really you know this doesn't feel right to me or this isn't very you know Maggie or whatever she was supportive of that so I guess it's easy for me to say that I would just tell my parents like oh I don't want to do that right because they were so supportive and they would understand and I don't know what that's like to come from right someone who would yeah yeah
Speaker: And it almost makes it feel like maybe those who support this theory are right because there was no sign of struggle, remember? No buzzer alarm sounded and she had been behind a locked door. And it was locked when they got there, correct? Right. So if someone had wanted to abduct her,
Speaker: Would they not, first of all, more likely have come in at the beginning or the end of the day, like maybe when she was distracted with locking or unlocking the door, like just walking in or just walking out versus the middle of the day? And she would have had to let them in because she kept the door locked. Exactly.
Speaker: So either it was someone she knew, or, and again, if you're being abducted, I'm doubting that they're gonna lock the door behind them. They're not gonna be like, hey, hand over the key, I gotta lock this place back up. Right? Right. While I'm doing that, you turn the book to page. Right, like that doesn't make any sense. And so I agree in a way that that does seem. A little far -fetched. It does. But here's what makes me doubt this theory.
Speaker: And it's because her purse and her keys were gone, but not her car. Which makes me feel like maybe if you, like if somebody came who you didn't know, who said, hey, let's go to lunch, you would take your purse and your keys, but you wouldn't take your car. So why couldn't she, why couldn't that have been what happened, right? She went to lunch with somebody. It was lunchtime. It was right around noon. And then they maybe did something to her.
Speaker: So maybe someone she trusted and she normally would like go to lunch with and then they weren't so trustworthy after all. Right. And I'm with you, like I don't know if somebody could really leave behind all friends and family and hard earned money.
Speaker: Right? And just start all over. I mean, I feel like if you're going to start all over, you might need a little money to get that life started. That's true.
Speaker: And I feel like it would take a very selfish person to be willing to let her family suffer with doubts and fears in the way that they must have rather than to just disappoint one person. And based on those quotes at the beginning about her feeling like this job was almost like a mission, that doesn't sound like that kind of a selfish person to me.
Speaker: Yeah yeah because she felt she was invested in the community so you would have to think she was invested in her family. Right and I mean just because the family was sheltered and involved with the church that doesn't mean that they were quote suffocated. Right. Even if her dad did make odd comments that doesn't necessarily mean that he was a bad person. So that's that theory.
Speaker: Theory three is that Cindy's disappearance was meant as a threatening message from a drug dealer To one of the lawyers who was employed at the firm and they were defense attorneys So right and you had mentioned they didn't have always the best client right, right? Richard Neller
Speaker: One of the lawyers in the firm was sentenced to 70 months in prison. The lawyer was? And eventually, yes, eventually officially disbarred after he was charged in 1996 with several felony counts of conspiracy to distribute cocaine, marijuana, and heroin. And while this is dated several years after Cindy's disappearance,
Speaker: It seems as though this connection with the drug community was not a new one. Upon deeper investigation, police discovered that Neller's drug activity was linked back to when he had defended a man by the name of Jose Rodriguez Jr.
Speaker: and advised him on how to avoid legal charges. This theory is based upon the idea that Neller and Rodriguez were talking about their shared drug activity and that Cindy had overheard a conversation about a drug transaction that she shouldn't have. This theory, Maggie, I will admit it begins with a lot of supposition. Okay. But it does end
Speaker: with a little bit more concrete comments that could lend credence to this theory. So first, the supposition. Could Cindy have been having nightmares because she was terrified by what she had overheard? Maybe she was like threatened. Right. Could Rodriguez, as some have argued, have indicated to Neller that he would kill Cindy if their deal went wrong to send a message?
Speaker: could Neller, the lawyer, who would have access to a key to the office. And he was employed there at this time? Yes. Either have used the key himself to let himself in, or given the key to Rodriguez to enter without drawing suspicion, either way with an intent to harm Cindy. After all, Neller would also have known that both Rabbit and Feldstein wouldn't be back from court until later.
Speaker: Right? So I know all of these are suppositioned, but... But no, I mean, but they make sense though. I mean, all that's true. You would have had a key. You would have known their schedule. You would have known Cindy's schedule. Yep. Now for the concrete.
Speaker: In Neller's trial, a quote unquote jail house snitch by the name of Scott Kelly Hanson claimed that Rodriguez, the drug dealer, had used a nine millimeter gun to murder Cindy Anderson and that Richard Neller had covered up the crime. Okay, I guess I've just watched a lot of true crime, forensic files, I think. I think that would be very difficult to do, to cover up a crime. I mean, I would think so too.
Speaker: But I mean, hey. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, I guess. Right, because I'm sure it has before. And I know that a lot of, quote unquote, jailhouse snitches. Just say things. Right, to try to get reduced sentences or to curry favors or whatever it is. And while this testimony did earn Hanson an early release, ultimately the judge decided that the information was not strong enough for a conviction and he threw out
Speaker: that information, that testimony. But one source that I did find noted that Hanson had snitched before in another case about a jailhouse confession that did end up being true because the individual later confessed. So could this information about Neller be credible? Could Neller have intended to fix Rodriguez's trial and failed
Speaker: leaving Cindy to suffer the consequences. I feel like that's something we probably, we as in the police, probably need to look into. Exactly. I mean at least consider. Yeah this niche is pretty credible. Right. Now Maggie, before we explore the final theory, I will say that one thing I read that other people notice that I do find curious is this.
Speaker: It does seem odd to me that these two lawyers, and they're not even the lawyers who are involved in that drug deal, that these two lawyers come into their office from court, literally nothing out of place, right? The office locked up, but they immediately become concerned merely because the phone wasn't on hold.
Speaker: because they hear the phone ringing. And then before trying to call around the office for Cindy, call family members, etc., they go immediately and say, hey, look at what page this book was left turned to.
Speaker: So yeah, I feel like that isn't the reaction you would have right off the bat. I feel like off the bat, you'd been like, Yoo -hoo, Cindy, how are you? Yeah, and I don't know about you, but even if I thought that she was missing, like not in the office, no part of my brain would ever even think to look at the book.
Speaker: as if it were supposed to be some sort of sign or message let alone like pause my search for my friend and co -worker to read the page of the book to be like oh my gosh it's an omen also wasn't it lunchtime
Speaker: Yeah, it was right around lunchtime. So they didn't think, oh, she just popped out to lunch today. Yeah, with a friend. Didn't they work in a city? So maybe she was able to walk to a sandwich shop, and that explains why her car was lit. Right. Yeah, so to come into that situation, and then to make a comment, something like, we knew immediately she wasn't coming back, that just seems like a big jump to me.
Speaker: Hmm. I know. Fishy. I know. So now Maggie, for the final theory. Theory number four, the Cook brothers, Anthony and Nathaniel. These were two brothers who committed at least nine murders in Toledo in the 1980s. Wow. Yeah. Now what makes them a viable theory in Cindy Anderson's disappearance are the following details. When I read
Speaker: What the MO of the Cook Brothers was, it was that their murders were racially motivated, so they targeted white people, mostly women, and the murders they committed were literally blocks away from the law office where Cindy worked. So in fact, one known murder,
Speaker: was committed against Stacy Balonic and Daryl Cole only two days before Cindy's disappearance and a distance that was less than a mile from the law office. So did they keep all of their murders within that small range? Almost all of them were within two miles, 2 .6 miles. Like it was all right around that area.
Speaker: were any of the bodies of their other victims located? They were and see that's the thing that makes me question this particular theory is that number one I read that while they did target
Speaker: white people and mostly women that actually a lot of their victims were couples. Okay and she was so low. And that they almost always from what I read raped the female victim and then either stabbed or shot her before, I know, so extremely violent, but before dumping the body and the bodies were found
Speaker: but Cindy Anderson's never was. Okay, so there's certain parts of this that fit these people, but then there's certain parts that don't, so the no body thing is obviously a big deal because we don't know was she raped, how did she die, we don't know any of that.
Speaker: And I mean, you're right, Maggie, with Cindy, nobody's ever recovered. And when you couple that with the fact that the Cook brothers admitted to these other murders, but never to that of Cindy Anderson, that could indicate that this theory is just that.
Speaker: a theory. So of all of these options so that she was murdered by the man who spray painted the I Love You Cindy by GW. Okay. That she ran away of her own accord because she was so oppressed by the environment that she was in that she was trying to break out.
Speaker: that she overheard some information, discussion going on between a drug dealer and one of the lawyers who worked in the office that she was quote unquote taken care of or that she was a victim of these serial killer brothers. What are you feeling?
Speaker: So at first I was kind of feeling that she ran away of her own accord, but then I think like I would want to prepare for that and so I would want to like maybe slowly start taking money out of my checking account so I had the means to start a new life. So that makes me rule that one out. I think that it was she was like quote unquote taken care of because I feel like that's the only explanation
Speaker: as to why nothing in her checking account was touched, because if his goal was just to get rid of her, then they wouldn't really care about the money in her savings and checking account. And like, how many similar cases have we heard where that's happened to people and nobody has ever been found? One thing that I read, I thought this was interesting, that kind of fits with your theory,
Speaker: is that they said, I obviously have no experience with this, but they said that when like drug lords or drug dealers want to kind of scare you, that they wouldn't come after you personally necessary. Well, I mean, they might rough you up, I guess, if you watch movies.
Speaker: That they wouldn't necessarily come after you or someone extremely close to you because then you'd be more likely to go to the police. But that they would kill someone who is close in proximity to you to send that message. Oh, like a scare tactic. That's what I read when I was doing research about this. So maybe that. So it's not like the lawyer's wife. Right. It's just a co -worker. Right. But still a message. Like if I can get to her through a locked door. I can get to you. I can get to you.
Speaker: I think that's what it is. I think I agree. Cindy's sister Christine feels that Cindy's dreams could have been a premonition. A warning from her subconscious of what the universe had planned. Maggie and I discuss this every week but we need to be better at both listening and talking. Listening to our own selves. To every moment when the world tells us that we're overreacting but our fears hold.
Speaker: talking with others about those concerns and about what we perceive as threats. One would think that in this great fast -moving technological world that we would improve communication and yet it seems that it has often made us more isolated and lose more of our understanding and empathy.
Speaker: Don't let that happen in this case. Let yourself feel the grief the family must have experienced with a daughter, a sister, gone. Internalize what it must be like to slowly watch everyone around you give up hope of contact. Everyone but you. Robin Erb tells us that Cindy's father mourned until his death.
Speaker: He told her, quote, I haven't come to that point yet. I expect that phone to ring at any time, maybe this afternoon, end quote. We hear the hope in his voice. It's not just a word for him.
Speaker: Cindy's sister has a different kind of hope, one for justice. She said, quote, I guess I've accepted it now. I think most of us have. There's a lot of evil people in this world who will never be convicted for the things they've done. They'll face judgment one day. And in our faith, we believe God will deal with them, end quote.
Speaker: Anyone with any information concerning this case should contact the Toledo Police Department at 419 -245 -3340. Currently in our world, fears are heightened. There's now a certain level of distrust of everyone, a fear of a danger we cannot see.
Speaker: For many, it is like a nightmare, stuck in a space where you can't escape, a dark fear that is now a reality. In these moments, it is important to not only listen to our inner voice of caution, yes, but also to never forget compassion and hope.
Speaker: Perhaps Elaine DeBaton said it best, the difference between hope and despair is a different way of telling stories from the same facts. With information, with passion, with love, there's still hope. There is always hope.
Speaker: Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail .com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
Speaker: Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.
