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Are We Having Fun Yet? - Reading the Room as a GM
28 Plays11 days ago
This time out, the crew talks about one of the most important GM skills: reading the room. Knowing when players are engaged, when they’re checking out, and when it’s time to pivot before the campaign stalls out completely. Daryl & Nick also share the story of a Star Wars campaign where the GM missed the warning signs, leaving the party stuck in one location for way longer than anyone at the table wanted.
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Transcript
Introduction to How We Roll Gaming
00:00:02
Speaker
with the coachman D20 Radio. at Your game is rolled.
00:00:17
Speaker
How will We Roll Gaming is dedicated to spreading enjoyment of great role-playing games. We hope to bring you insights into games you may not have played, tips to be a better game master and player, and share us stories of momentous events at our tables.
00:00:29
Speaker
Every game is a new story to tell. I'm Daryl. I'm Nick. And here's Robert. And this is How We Roll.
Pre-Holiday Banter
00:00:42
Speaker
Welcome back to the How We Roll Gaming Podcast, everybody. Hope everybody is doing well. And as we record this, it will we're going into a holiday weekend.
00:00:52
Speaker
When this drops, you will have just finished a holiday weekend, so I hope you had a great holiday weekend. Nick, Robert, how are you gentlemen doing? Doing well. Doing well so far. Glad it's the weekend for me.
00:01:06
Speaker
Yes, same here. And ready ready for the the baby Yoder shenanigans this weekend. and the yeah the the The Kroku and Mando show. Yes, the the bad baby show.
00:01:26
Speaker
Bad baby. I thought that was there the the Super Bowl. No, that's bad bunny. oh It's bad bunny.
00:01:36
Speaker
gotta to get them right I mean, yes. Unless you want a bunch of so above Super Bowl fans at your door. That's right. That's right. Although, I mean, you you can charge parking at admission. so Yeah, be at a premium.
00:01:51
Speaker
Yeah. we can We can make back that celebration money, celebration ticket money, and then some. And pay back to me. ahs You just got to trade your neighbor's like of you.
00:02:05
Speaker
Oh, you think Nick's neighbors like him? I think they tolerate him. Yeah, but tolerating isn't liking. Yes, but below tolerating is hating. so yeah You know who does like him, though? Squirrel!
00:02:19
Speaker
a They do indeed.
Housekeeping and Recommendations
00:02:22
Speaker
ah But we've we've got a a pretty awesome topic tonight, so before we dive in, let's say we take care of our housekeeping.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yes, we must take care of that, because if you're enjoying How We Roll Gaming, you might want to check out another great show on the D20 Radio Network. It's a our one and favorite, me and Steve, DocRPGs.
00:02:45
Speaker
It's a relaxed, thoughtful, and often hilarious deep dive into tabletop role-playing games, where the conversation could go from system design and GM advice to storytelling theory, actual play reflections, and the occasional chaotic tangent.
00:03:02
Speaker
Whether you're a new GM looking for ideas or a veteran player who just loves talking RPGs, me and Steve talk RPGs. It's a brilliant companion. Listen, smart, funny, and always grounded in the real love of the hobby.
00:03:18
Speaker
so check it out. We love Steve and Steve. Yes, we love Steve. And if you've listened recently, you'll see that Daryl and I have been guests before. Yep. yep But let's get into our topic this this particular episode.
The Art of GMing: Reading the Room
00:03:34
Speaker
So every GM knows this moment.
00:03:37
Speaker
The scene is set, the dice are rolling, and something just isn't landing. Table goes a little quiet, energy dips, nobody's quite leaning in the way you expected.
00:03:51
Speaker
And that's where today's topic comes in. Reading the room. Not the fictional one in the game, but the real one around your table. Because great GMing isn't just about prep or plot or even rules mastery. It's about noticing what your players are actually responding to in real time and being willing to adjust when they're not. Oh, and do Nick and I have a story about that that we will get into in a bit. I will say that as someone who is not the most socially well aware...
00:04:23
Speaker
This is a difficult topic for some individuals who are not socially aware. So there are some cues that may fly right over your head in the classic Guardians of the Galaxy Drax way.
00:04:38
Speaker
Yes, but nothing would go over his head. He is too fast. He would catch them. And in this episode but time we're breaking yeah yeah in this episode, we're breaking down the subtle signals of engagement and disengagement. how to react without losing momentum or derailing your game. So let's get into it.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yes, let's. i'll leave I'll preface it first by, of course, saying, if you've experienced this, again, don't attack yourself. Don't feel like you're failing as a GM.
00:05:10
Speaker
This is always going to happen with people. There's always going to be a time when this happens. And as someone who is socially awkward, that is something that will happen, but it's something that you can grow to It's not a handicap. It's something that can be just as with everything within social anxiety you can adapt and learn from.
00:05:33
Speaker
Yes. Plus, the way may be happening for a person may not have anything to do with you. Maybe they just didn't have a good sleep last night. Maybe they stayed up till 3 a.m. Maybe they had a bad day at work. You don't
Engaging Players in Combat
00:05:45
Speaker
know. Yeah, I was going to say, what we're going to be talking about, we're going to be talking more about when when players just aren't meeting the game on its terms and the game isn't meeting the players on their terms, which is a whole different beast from every single one of us at one point or another zones out at the table. Yes. And it's not because we're not digging the game.
00:06:12
Speaker
It's because we've just zoned out at the table. But a good start is to say that like most of the time, if you're thinking it's yourre as a gm if it's your thinking it's your fault, take a moment and reflect on that. it's like It might not be your fault.
00:06:30
Speaker
It might just be a simple issue of miscommunication. Yes, and i i forget the I forget the name of the comedian who said it, but he did a bit where saying men's thoughts...
00:06:43
Speaker
aren't all entangled. We have boxes. And one of our favorite boxes to be in is the nothing box where we just stare ahead, a zone out, and forget everything in the last five minutes. And we're very lucky our body involuntarily breathes for us.
00:06:59
Speaker
Honestly, I feel personally attacked. We all feel personally attacked. Honestly, I can actually reflect on this because multiple times I haven't said like, Nick, are you staring at me? Like,
00:07:13
Speaker
No, I am staring at the middle distance that just happens to be you right next to you. I am not seeing you. i am literally looking at a small square that is like right, could be, within my periphery, but I am focusing on there.
00:07:30
Speaker
Or I'm not even staring. My eyes are forward, but I'm not actually seeing. I'm just up here. Yeah. What what i'm I am not seeing, what my eyes are pointed at, I am seeing a rerun of The Simpsons.
00:07:45
Speaker
ah Basically, that's I've had to do that multiple times where people say, Nick, why are you staring at me? He's like, i'm I'm not. I am literally... I'm not staring at you. I'm in the land of chocolate.
00:08:00
Speaker
There is an entire world... there's an entire world of my imagination. This is what happens to be where my vision cone is currently focused in where i could like catch your arm or something. Yes. okay So if you're a GM for men, that's a good sign. If we're just staring ahead and not responding, we're probably in our nothing box.
00:08:25
Speaker
ah but and a bennet But a better sign, as we all know, is when you look over and you see someone doing this.
00:08:33
Speaker
It's on their phone. We've all done it, Daryl. Yeah. I mean, yeah and i wonder what is it we it's a I do remember very funny moment when we were in a ah game that we often often recall. It's like, Nick, what are you looking at on your phone? It's like, I'm looking at porn.
00:08:55
Speaker
I'm looking at increasingly shameful porn. Now leave me alone. ah There goes our monetization. It's We're not monetized.
00:09:07
Speaker
But the main fact it was I was aggro. We are far, far away from monetization in terms of watch hours and subscribers. so it was like It was the case. of' like Fair, fair.
00:09:20
Speaker
And honestly, it was one time that you did you didn't catch me doing that, but it was like because the GM was asking me to find my hotspot. ah hotspo you came in right then. It's like, didn't you make that joke? And I just were like, I just respond with it. Like, yeah, I am.
00:09:42
Speaker
Yes. That's a, that's a good subtle sign of disengagement, especially on a player's part, which mostly comes up in combat when you just went and you know, it's going to be maybe four or five people before you, or before it's your turn again. Which again, it yeah it is understandable. Like combat depends, especially in certain systems can be, uh,
00:10:02
Speaker
A long period of time. but Yes, we all don't know we all dont know the joke is it takes us three hours to finish the combat, but in the actual session it's like a minute.
00:10:14
Speaker
But it it does behoove you to watch and learn because then if you there's sometimes at one moment you say like, X character did this, enemy did this, sets you up for like, oh, I can do that.
00:10:30
Speaker
Yes. And I've found that, at least in my instance when it comes to combat, a good way to engage a player again, especially if youve if you have multiple NPCs in a fight, have one of them target that player, especially since they're going to come up maybe next turn or a few turns later.
00:10:45
Speaker
you're like, inellec you're in danger, how are you going to respond? everyone's Everyone's going to be in the encounter at some point. So as long as you have enough ability to get to draw them right back in, like And again, usually if it's like a big, usually they will all like snipe in when it's like, okay, we have to take out the big bad evil guy. But it's like, if you have like a bunch of minions, like spread out the minion so that they can at least hit hit some of the characters buy the for referee so that they can be engaged. Yes. And we don't mean but target, but graze them up now and then. Yeah.
00:11:27
Speaker
But we're we're not talking, we're talking less today about those occasional zone outs.
Player Engagement in Role-Play Moments
00:11:34
Speaker
oh we're We're talking more when it's one or more players who consistently underpriced any particular circumstances actively tune out.
00:11:49
Speaker
ah For instance, ah yeah we we've had we've had occasion where we had someone for a while who the pattern clearly established itself that they were there for the rolling of the dice during combat.
00:12:08
Speaker
well and And when it wasn't combat, when it was roleplay or narrative or story and continually had to be prodded. Hey, what you doing?
00:12:22
Speaker
What's character going to do? And drag them into the the narrative part of the session. Their characters were, know, I, I, I'm trying not to speak too terribly ill, but their characters were relatively one dimensional fighting machines, whatever system we were in.
00:12:43
Speaker
True. Yes, he yeah they were definitely geared more towards combat than anything else. Right. And so that's a case where I don't want to.
00:12:54
Speaker
I'm trying not to make this a situation where it's like, well, that person just isn't a match for the group or the game. So they got to go. there's There's going to be people who that is what their focus is.
00:13:08
Speaker
So you try to keep that in mind yeah and make for, even if it's not actual combat, make for actual rolling actions make for for them to do. and If so, like if they if if that if that is the easiest way is you can add a couple more morea encounters into the adventure.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yes, or maybe you tailor a scene fit both role play and role play. Say maybe you have to get information from someone. Okay, maybe instead of meeting at a crisp little ball or Yuletide ball, have them meet instead in an underground fighting ring where that combat player is in is in the matches being like this new mysterious fighter contender.
00:14:04
Speaker
while the other players cozy up to the target while they're betting on the guy. ah Again, there are ways to like massage that and like make certain that a player who's skilled fully at combat can still do their thing.
Adapting to Player Feedback
00:14:20
Speaker
And even if they, and again, this is assuming that the player is themselves not, may have designed it not to role play is like do like social encounters, but you could still have them in the scene. that They will still have like,
00:14:33
Speaker
They'll be fighting a character, like you said, in like ah a fighter's arena. Or it or challenging the biggest guy at the but and a bar to a boxing match.
00:14:44
Speaker
Exactly. by Like we say, tailor your scenes to involve everybody in some regard. There's absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, I encourage periodically throughout a campaign, take your players' temperatures.
00:15:02
Speaker
Yes, exactly. That is the big one. Hey, Harry, how's everybody doing with this? um We all try to do this at the end of every session. and I know sometimes it might even sound like a perfunctory, I hope everybody had fun, but...
00:15:19
Speaker
I know both of you share this with me in that we genuinely are asking, I hope you have it. Tell me what you did. Like if there's something that wasn't working for you, let me know. Yeah. Or sometimes they say, I tried to do this in this session. How did you feel about it? yeah Yeah. I am very perfunctory when I, when I say like, here's a little behind the scenes fact.
00:15:46
Speaker
The fact is like, that's usually my way of opening up like, did Did that work? If if it didn't work, ah give me I'm open to notes. Yes, Oren. Simply just say, what do you want for your character? Maybe, what do you want to happen in the story?
00:16:02
Speaker
do you want Do you want a fight on a train? Do you want to do a race? Do you want to infiltrate the castle? what what What are you wanting to do? Sometimes your characters don't have like clear goals or ideas.
00:16:15
Speaker
And that's always open to be like, hey, You want to talk about that, talk with the players, talk with us about like making a goal if you don't have one exactly at the moment.
00:16:26
Speaker
Each of us have fairly new campaigns that we've launched in the last few months. And so as I'm thinking about this as we're talking, this is something that's just coming coming to me
Planning for Character Development
00:16:39
Speaker
now. So with my Star Trek campaign, something that I might do is let everybody get a few sessions under their belts, start to get a feel for their characters and, and how they're bouncing off of one another. And as they start to get into, because I don't know about you, but it takes me several sessions to really get into a ah new character.
00:17:07
Speaker
It takes me at least four or five. at least four or five. So what i think I might do is peek behind the curtain for Nick, who's a player in it. Robert, you're not a player in it. So you're looking from the outside in at at how I'm doing my GM planning on this.
00:17:30
Speaker
I have multiple seasons sketched out for it. And each season is 10 sessions. One thing that I might do after...
00:17:41
Speaker
after session or episode five, take a moment at the end of the session to say, okay, you know, we're, this is the mid season break.
00:17:54
Speaker
So how's everybody feeling about it? Is there anything that they want their characters to do? Do they feel like their character is kind of getting sidelined because of the nature of the sessions? You know, what, what's going on? Get, let me take everybody's temperature.
00:18:13
Speaker
Honestly, and I speak as a player of that campaign that we are speaking of, I would very much like that in that I like the character that I am developing, but I'll bet that they are sketchy in terms of their goal, their ideas, and what they would be like for for i for a yet.
00:18:37
Speaker
can't for like a goal yet i haven't like nailed that down yet. Well, Nick, um I'm going to let you in on a little secret for your character here. Let me just get my notes pulled up.
00:18:51
Speaker
But I have i have have this planned for you and one other character this season one.
00:19:03
Speaker
I think I have yours in season one. That's why I want to pull my notes up. And of course, OneNote is taking forever to load up. Here we go. it You're going to give him the lens flares? No, no, no.
00:19:16
Speaker
Nick wants the lens flares. um But... Hang on. If I do, if I, it'd be in one Zod or a campaign of this, of this is the, you will be all blinded by the Blanche Flares. yeah Nick, session four, I have penciled in as a spotlight session for your character. Ooh.
00:19:43
Speaker
And then I have another. um I'm literally kicking, kicking my feet up. Ooh la la. I keep my feet up because i'm like I'm on my bed right now and I'm keeping my feet up like like I'm at ah at ah at ah at a sleepover.
00:19:58
Speaker
And then set session eight, I have penciled in as a as a spotlight session for Stephanie's character. I've got one for Betsy's character early in season two. We we are doing this like a a genuine Star Trek series where periodically there will be an episode where a character steps into the spotlight and gets that's a lot of character focus.
00:20:25
Speaker
I am very thankful for that, but that... did yeah and like yeah and so like I am still sketching out the character and this this this ah upcoming session will willll definitely help like nail that down and maybe at that point like help me put that because again like hey it you allowed me to pick some juicy material for your backstory and so you know I will I will be playing with that kind of element Yes, and this can be used in conjunction with something like that.
00:20:59
Speaker
It's not just take your character's temperature, but as you're doing the session, simply pay attention to how the player's playing their character. like yeah of the How do they act? What's their temperament? like and Or does something interesting happen that you can build off on that you think because two or more players may be able to work with?
00:21:17
Speaker
As someone who's played in maybe not as many games as I wanted to, the minute i i create a character but then once i enter the session like i said like oh this guy's gonna have this accent well no he has this accent now and this personality now it's like is is that classic uh idea like uh nothing survived no plan survives uh entering into the in meeting the the enemy, but in this case, of meeting the role-playing
Adjusting Storylines Based on Player Response
00:21:51
Speaker
scenarios. like You'd be like, oh, you want to be like, oh, I'm the suave character. Someone else is already s suave, so now you're like, oh, I'm kind of the kind of the cool guy.
00:22:01
Speaker
Yes, because in my newer campaign, Legend the Five Rings, last session, things were a little tense between your character, Nick, and Dante's character after some certain things were revealed.
00:22:13
Speaker
And I'm just like, nice, because I'm going to try and build on that as we get closer now into Crane lands rather than Scorpion lands. And again, it was not intense enough because, again, they were new. And my character, as I said, like I'm still nailing down, though I did make some major decisions.
00:22:33
Speaker
Now I'm sort of becoming, the character is becoming, and it was building off of that new character. was like, this was like This was like the friction that we had was like natural. It was like very much like ah the idea of like like water carving out out of canyon is like natural creating a divide.
00:22:57
Speaker
Exactly. And I'm either going to do things that can... Link the divide or maybe heal it a little. We'll see. and they did there's there's And again, our characters, yeah like I believe in some of the, why I believe it was Betsy's characters, like it could either be like we're going to be mortal enemies or we're going to be the best of friends.
00:23:18
Speaker
Yes. And like I'm still trying to whether that's your story. Let's Daryl and Lawrence's characters as well. I remember we were saying it sometimes takes several sessions to get into the, character i'm I'm still trying to find the character's head. Everything that I picked, everything that I picked on paper, i love.
00:23:40
Speaker
I'm trying to figure out how that all works together. together honestly Yeah, and since we've been playing with each other for years now, I can tell when you're still in the middle of figuring it out, because they're usually more silent.
00:23:52
Speaker
like honestly Honestly, it was like our last session. I made big decisions, but now I'm like, this is where I think I'm going. I'm going to at least butt heads against this character. But where that goes in itself is like how our characters and how the story goes. so like I feel a lot more comfortable there, even though I did make some big decisions, which will at least be at least plus I at least made decisions who will push the character forward when I didn't know what the character was. So now that can make some changes and stuff like that.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, we've talked a lot about engaging players when something doesn't hit with from them. But now we've got to get into the thing that sometimes GMs are afraid of is that you've got something planned, got something really big, and you throw it out there and... Nah.
00:24:49
Speaker
It's... it's it's um Kind of the, you have a plot point and it doesn't hit. Yeah, you're baiting, but they're not really biting.
00:24:59
Speaker
Not for anything morally bad about it, but it's just like, they don't really vibe with that direction. Or they're they're vibing with what the plot point is, but not how it's being executed.
00:25:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. They may be focusing on one thing when you're like, I never wanted that to be a major thing. Now this is different from what we've discussed before, like a major piece of the ah things that they are using in a different way. This is more like an actual, like you are setting up the storyline and they are like, to like's for lack of a better term, it's a cat batting at the tassel. It's like,
00:25:47
Speaker
lord Yeah, it's like, you've we've got to go get the Ashen Crown, but I don't really want to get that. i At least like li saying I got you to do that, but you didn't for different.
00:26:02
Speaker
You did, and we stay engaged for it, but you zigged where we zigged, and we were like, let's go open a tavern. Yes. But it the the the the actual version that we're talking about, is like I set up like,
00:26:16
Speaker
there's this thing called the ass and crown and you're like, well, I don't care. Yeah. And over sessions, we developed our characters. We like, yeah, if we give this to this government, we may start another war and we don't want to do that, but it's entirely possible for your characters to have been like, okay, let's do it. Give me money.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yeah. or Or be like, no, here, here's the piece and we're piecing out and we're just going to go do other things. Now, there there are times that this can also stem from not a a case of the story itself doesn't engage the players, but as a GM, we can have an idea that we're like, oh boy, on paper, this is going to be awesome.
00:27:05
Speaker
And it goes with what you've had in mind for how to run the campaign. yeah And ultimately, let's, okay. I'm going to be blunt about it because Nick, I think knows where I'm about to go. yeah Where I'm about to start. I know where you're about to go to that.
00:27:25
Speaker
It ends up just not being fun. Yes. So Nick, we're we're at about the half
Balancing Realism and Engagement
00:27:33
Speaker
hour mark. Yeah. Do we want to go into our story?
00:27:38
Speaker
Well, I think it's kind of, unfortunately, sort of the the crux of this, because this is the bigger part of, like, it it exemplifies a lot of what we're talking about.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yes, and i guess in a way it also resembles the wrong direction to take this as a GM. It's an example of why you need to read the room.
00:28:02
Speaker
Without naming names, we're going to say that if we do we did very much. He was a great player, had some and some foibles, and was a brilliant part of like our early experience with the Star Wars role-playing game.
00:28:19
Speaker
And is able to look at at all of the talents on a specialization tree, see how they interact and meld them all together in the way that fantasy flight, I think wanted. Oh, I was better than even like the actual, like, cause he, what he did even, even, he'd even added his name into, into one of the, a couple of the books as a play tester without going into the campaign premise ah or anything. And, Let me say, the campaign premise was awesome.
00:28:54
Speaker
Oh, it was... Except for this period that we're talking about, which had nothing... Yeah, it had nothing to do with the premise. you The issue that we had had nothing to do with the premise.
00:29:10
Speaker
So... We join the game. Short version of this setup. Our capital ship is heavily damaged. And we find a an inn to get to Kuat Shipyards and get parts. Get the parts we need. And we're we're needing huge parts too. And we find a way to get a you large-scale heavy freighter for the parts.
00:29:44
Speaker
Great! The session that we get to this station that has the parts and the freighter, we find an inventory and we manage to get approval for the parts to be loaded this freighter. We get the funds, fudge the funds, we get what be like
00:30:06
Speaker
bus the funds gen the get what should be like It should have bankrupted us, but like enough to like get this thing. yeah Basically, upstart this whole campaign.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah, and so, great. that That happens in the session that we get to the station. Awesome. So, let's get everything loaded and get out of here.
00:30:30
Speaker
Oh, that's... I feel that bell in my bones. Well, it's going to take... three days i think he said it yes three days i was there i was i was i don't remember the time frame it was going to take because of the volume and size of parts it was going it was going to take multiple days yes it's like all right fair enough Okay, so at that point, as GM... That was described at the end of the session that I was part of.
00:31:08
Speaker
but of and Just to make sense of... That's the end of it. I had to not be part of multiple sessions due to due to time conflicts. so I was there for that ending of that. It's like, okay, in a couple days... We'll have the things.
00:31:26
Speaker
I come back. as a As a player, my reasonable assumption was, okay, so we pick up the next session. The next session will cover the days of loading and we'll have some little side quest, which totally reasonable.
00:31:45
Speaker
Yeah, that was totally reasonable. So this campaign met every three weeks. Mm-hmm. In terms of sessions, we had sessions on that station while the ship was being loaded over those several days for five or six months.
00:32:11
Speaker
And things would keep happening delay our departure. The side quest that we were thinking, like oh, that's going to be...
00:32:24
Speaker
will do that and then this stuff will be loaded it's like no stuff would happen and i would delay the loading if you if you're an anime fan this is the dragon ball five minutes basically yes
Ensuring Campaign Progression
00:32:44
Speaker
and so as players you know we understood what he was trying to do. He was trying to insert a sense of pseudo... I won't say realism. I will say verisimilitude.
00:33:01
Speaker
Yes. I will borrow from Richard Donner. That's a good one to write. he was He was trying to instill the sense of this isn't just, you know, you show up and say, i want the parts and somebody says, okay, and then you leave with the parts.
00:33:19
Speaker
But it just kept going. Again, like, I was, as someone that was like, I could only come in, like, every two or even, know, like, the third week of what was like, are we out the station?
00:33:42
Speaker
No. Yes. And and some bearish millitude is all right. Yes. there there some People play games to escape real life.
00:33:54
Speaker
And especially certain certain large amounts of like we aren't playing playing the the ever giving and stuck in the Suez Canal.
00:34:06
Speaker
We're not playing any of those simulator games that have become really popular. Yeah. At least if any those, you go into that knowing like... What you getting?
00:34:18
Speaker
So, at as players, we were we were being polite, but we were also... On the edge. We were getting visibly frustrated with this situation.
00:34:34
Speaker
And I think we were getting close. One of our players was, I've never seen, I've, I've, we've gamed them with them before and I've never seen them sort of stand up like that before when they said like, we oh, there's a moment where like a bad roll happens. Like, oh, well that's going to cost us another week. And they stood up and was like, another week?
00:34:58
Speaker
Yeah, we were, we we were getting visibly irritated with, this status that a cabin a payment either a cabin fever was and alitic characters were throwing out okay well when we're done when we get off of this station I want to go here and do this when we get off of the station I want to go here and do this but we were still on the station. and What's the common denominator of those sentences? we we had We had goals that we were like, and we were making plans, we were making connections, we were contacting individuals. we're like We were basically setting up a whole campaign in there, but we were like, we'll be able to do the campaign when we leave.
00:35:49
Speaker
Yes, and you two were actually in the campaign for those that saga of the space station. In your opinion, simply your opinion, do you think the GM just didn't pick up on your cues or was it more of a case of the sunk cost fallacy? heat They doubled down.
00:36:09
Speaker
Doubled down. Doubled down. I think that they felt that I, from what, again, i we've gained with them. I will let Nick give his impression than I will give mine.
00:36:23
Speaker
My impression, based on what I know of them, and I literally... They are a number cruncher. They are spreadsheet commando. We nicknamed the campaign Spreadsheet Wars.
00:36:39
Speaker
i remember you saying that. Because we we we were instructed that we would have to keep granular track of things like fuel and whatnot.
00:36:52
Speaker
And so and wait are you when I say we had a spreadsheet of the parts that were being loaded and with a successful role that we had, all of the extra materiel that we were getting, that you know we had a spreadsheet of all of that, I'm not speaking metaphorically.
00:37:11
Speaker
hey you got to You got to do some x Excel skills while you were playing. Yeah. But that's Nick's impression of the situation. my so My impression of the situation is more a case of ah the the GM thinking, no, no, no, I know why I'm wanting to do this. And once this part is over, you're going to see why it was awesome.
00:37:37
Speaker
We did not, in insert Morgan Freeman narrating, we did not, in fact, see why it was awesome. Yes, because there is always a point as a player where you're like, okay okay, maybe this will pay off in the end. Maybe this will pay off the end. But then you reach that line where you're like, even if this is paid off greatly, i just don't care anymore.
00:37:58
Speaker
Again, it that is that is we are both coming from different perspectives on that, but it's the same thing. it's like He believed that what he was doing was going to create a once we surpass this point or when we look back on this point we'll be like oh it all fits together and this is great but it had the opposite effect in that we could we see the the the peak
00:38:30
Speaker
the the that the peak was too far from the valley we're in. Well, what I was going to say is we then came to realize if this is just the loading process, how long is it going to take for the ship to actually be repaired with these parts to be functional and get into the premise of the campaign that sold us on playing in the first place?
00:38:59
Speaker
That realization moment wass like, Oh, no. Basically, yeah. It's like, wait, if it's taken us this long to repair the warship. Not just repair, to get the parts.
00:39:12
Speaker
For the warship. Then we have to repair it. And likely defend it. Because, again, this is a role-playing game. This is going to be fights. This is going to be things. there's going to be It's not going to be easy to do this.
00:39:26
Speaker
And then it's going to get into fights. going to get damaged, which means we're going to need to get parts to repair. And the cycle happens. And I will say, that there after we got off the the station, there was one side session that we we were literally being punished as players for misinterpreting a clue that we were given and following our misinterpretation of the clue.
00:39:59
Speaker
I would say that you weren't punished by the... Again, I wasn't there, but I would say like you weren't punished for misinterpreting a clue. You were given a red herring, and when you followed up with it, the...
00:40:14
Speaker
Did you decide, like, ah how stupid of you for following the red herring I put out? yeah That's a fair way of looking at it, too. Yes. yeah that Again, i wasn't there for that, but honestly, it felt more, it that it felt like, oh, I set up a a ah trap, and instead of, like, it wasn't even, like, a trap that, like, damaged you. It he was like, what what what were you doing? like i mean it's just more No, I'm going to waste your time to see how long you follow this.
00:40:42
Speaker
The whole session. Yes. and and there's Because I've done red herrings myself before, but there's got to be a cutoff point to be like, you've reached the dead end. yeah That's why I call it call it like what it is.
Handling Unexpected Player Paths
00:40:54
Speaker
It's like, you spent this whole session, you you accomplished nothing.
00:40:58
Speaker
And why would you? Because you followed my red herring. like, you should have realized it was red herring. It's like, that's that's not how you set... If you if you're going to set on red herring, at least make it a trap. A clever ploy.
00:41:11
Speaker
yeah and that's where as a GM, you've got to decide, okay... Do I just do the trap or figure out a trap even though I didn't plan one? Or do I just flip it and say this is the actual interpretation of the clue? You're right. um so or so um some so Or some sort of third option. Some sort of like, oh, this is a side quest that you've got. There's something new that you can gather that could be important later.
00:41:37
Speaker
Now, we've just spent about 15 minutes griping about this situation. Yeah. Now, to answer the question that you gave, yes, it would it was clearly obvious that we were frustrated with what was going on.
00:41:56
Speaker
And think...
00:42:00
Speaker
That is not to say that what we did play of this campaign before it just kind of fell apart because life and scheduling and coupled with the frustration most of us were feeling with the campaign. I'll admit for my part, i I did try to do my best to like that, but even I was like, I think even you know, it's like I was getting like, hip ah it again i i I just couldn't commit to the full schedule.
00:42:30
Speaker
I will ask, as the GM himself, when a session went in, would he ask for any feedback? would he just it be more of like, OK, we're good. See you next time.
00:42:42
Speaker
It was very much like it. All right, we're done. He did pack. I mean, he he did. He had he had some high production value. had He accessed the TV that was there. And no he brought a TV. oh yeah He brought a TV there. And ah I mean, the only thing that he needed for me was but was my hotspot for a couple of times.
Memorable Campaign Moments
00:43:03
Speaker
But it's like but he would be like, all right, yeah we're done for the session.
00:43:08
Speaker
Yeah. We'll see in three weeks. Yeah. And that's a good time where even if you're not actually reading the room. It's always good maybe two or three sessions in the future to just ask, how are y all feeling?
00:43:21
Speaker
and again Even if you feel like things are going great, just ask. ah Again, you could argue argue that we couldn't do that because this was at a local game shop. So like hanging out and did they had like a Yu-Gi-Oh! car tournament on the same days. But like that still could have been done.
00:43:39
Speaker
You got a few minutes to walk to your cars. and it could have It could have been done online, on meetup, on over text messaging. It wasn't like we're in the Stone Age. He could have reached out and was like, how are you guys feeling?
00:43:56
Speaker
I had to leave leave because I needed to move stuff. I had to move out because I had the cold time. it like or just I am i thought i i thought I had fun. How about you guys? just again he there is that There was no it was in what It's within the modern times that he could have reached out to us to gauge things. what i was What I was starting to get at, though, is you we we griped about it for about 15 minutes net just now.
00:44:27
Speaker
Just hitting yo major bullet points. But I don't want to give the impression that we hated that campaign. we we We hated the situation that we were in The character that I played is still, it it quickly became, it's kind of funny, he became one of my favorite characters to play in part because some of his quirks were me like thumbing my nose at obstacles the GM threw at me.
00:45:00
Speaker
Yeah, honestly came with like three of my one of my... A couple of my favorite like Star Wars player characters and some of my NPCs.
00:45:11
Speaker
whereas because he When he proposed the campaign, it was very vague, so I had like a whole bunch of NPCs planned out. so like I had the i i got got a great reservoir of Though i I question the lore of it, I do love the setup.
00:45:30
Speaker
Yeah, the setup was great. But like my my character... Arthur, your character became a very big favorite.
00:45:40
Speaker
Yes. to To give some context, the campaign kicked off in the Clone Wars, but because of relativity and a singularity that the ship got caught in, escaped. The singularities, gravity well, time dilation, they show up during the galactic early part of the Galactic Civil War.
00:46:03
Speaker
So it's a Venator, a Clone Wars Venator, a Clone Wars Venator with a Clone Wars era crew. And my character was a Padawan and he was a Wookiee Padawan.
00:46:20
Speaker
And so just because of how the crit dice rolled, well, actually the first thing, the fun part came first before the crit.
00:46:31
Speaker
So as we're about to go to this station, as we're about to go to the station, right? Well, I can't wear Jedi robes. So I start going through looking looking for something and was like, you know, maybe...
00:46:48
Speaker
Maybe something to blend in. the the The captain of the ship has to have something. He was kind of a big guy. Do I find anything that fits me? And he has me roll. And he does this like, yes, you find a Hawaiian shirt.
00:47:04
Speaker
And I say, I will take it. You have a Zeltronian blazer. And after getting to the station, the way a crit rolled, lost one of my arms.
00:47:17
Speaker
Named. Ducks. Replaced with a cybernetic arm. So I had artwork commissioned. it it' it's It's awesome. It's the best artwork I've seen.
00:47:30
Speaker
of of Of my Wookiee Padawan with his lightsaber with a big, chonky cybernetic arm wearing a Hawaiian shirt.
00:47:41
Speaker
um I love this piece of artwork. And I think your lightsaber is green. Blue. Blue, okay. blue but like a Blue. I came in the week after I like, and you so told me that. It's like, that's sick!
00:47:58
Speaker
Well, and just the the icing on the cake is I myself went to a thrift store and bought like five of the ugliest Hawaiian shirts I could find.
00:48:12
Speaker
And I walked them to the sessions. that That's the whole reason I asked. That's making you fun they right there. Because like i know I had known Dale and I've never seen him in a Hawaiian shirt. I saw him that day. It's like, what did I miss?
00:48:30
Speaker
It was like, you told me. It's like, oh, that's sick. And I i remember I specifically gave you a high five. That's so cool. But you know there there were elements of that campaign that we liked.
00:48:43
Speaker
In terms of that, yeah, we we loved... I think we all liked our characters. Yeah. We really loved the premise, so much so that it it never happened. But with that campaign's GM's blessing...
00:49:05
Speaker
one of the other players and I were going to relaunch as like a season two. Yes. And you've even talked about that in our group of a relaunch. Yeah. um And, you know he and I were going to co-GM. And the reason we were going to co-GM is we both liked the idea, but we also wanted to play our characters.
00:49:28
Speaker
Yes. So it's like, well, if we co-GM rather than, then co-GMing the same sessions will trade off storylines yes and that makes perfect sense again it's like again if if that individual is listening and i kind of hope they are because we do we do appreciate them they they are a part of many stories many great stories yes we love when you would make nick go off camera and say dang it Yes.
00:49:59
Speaker
But most importantly, this was a moment that take there was a it was a teaching moment. And again, that's not a bad thing.
00:50:11
Speaker
so i hope that that did they... And part of it is that you have to learn to read the room. And yeah, there was moments when we were considering like flipping the table over.
Creative Game Mechanics
00:50:25
Speaker
yeah now and there And there was another mechanic that a homebrew mechanic that he used for this campaign that I really liked. you Robert, you have your full Darkseid Destiny flip.
00:50:43
Speaker
ah Yes. really wait Which I mentioned in the Star Wars RPG subreddit the other day. And somebody was like, oh my god, I love that. I'm stealing that.
00:50:55
Speaker
um Glad it's going around. but it it it I remember when they when I brought it up at Gamer Nation.
00:51:06
Speaker
when i when we I brought it up to the to the Austin crew. And they were like, oh my god! They they said, like wait, you game with him? It's like, yeah.
00:51:18
Speaker
It's like, how do you survive? It's fun. But... it's fun since this was at a local comics and game store that doesn't charge for the table space, um what he did is he instituted a mechanic that if you bought something from the store while we were there, you had a personal destiny point.
00:51:48
Speaker
Oh, that's nice. And that was... yeah well ah as again like when fun fact the the star wars group is called the the plano star wars game star wars role-playing group and it was originally supposed to be like i was going to really always run it at madness comics and games but uh since it that evolved way after that to being at my home it's like Something like that was something that I was even thinking about. I was like up they say like, if they buy something, they get get a boon or something. Just to support the local friendly game shop.
00:52:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Every player that purchased something at the table. And we we all made a point of, you know, we would go up and buy it when he could see it and come back and show him.
00:52:39
Speaker
yeah Here's my receipt. Yeah. And you got a personal destiny point that stayed in front of you. And it it did not count in the limit of one destiny token per turn per player that could be used.
00:53:00
Speaker
So you could use you could flip a destiny point from the community pool and also flip your own destiny point.
00:53:11
Speaker
Well, see, that's what you missing, Daryl. He was waiting for one of you to make some giant purchase, and you could say, can we leave the station? And he said yes. I think we tried that. We we did. we did it was like we We did. was like We all went, I was like, can we flip all of our, because we did, we i think we've got like ah like like sodas. was like, if if we flip all of our personal, is it important to get off the station?
00:53:37
Speaker
No, no, no. This is like like you mentioned Madness Games. No, he was waiting for one of you to buy one of the giant statues that they were on sale and it'd be like, okay, now you can leave the station. Nah, this wasn't at Madness, though. They didn't yeah anything that big. Something equivalent to that. No. it like Again, like honestly, would it was kind of difficult to even get there because it was they were doing and they were doing the local Yu-Gi-Oh tournament. So like we'd have to go past. Ooh, yeah, that's a lot.
00:54:04
Speaker
We had to get past them because it's like they were they were exchanging the booster packs and they were waiting. is i guess like get i just i just want I just want a so little soda. i just want i just want a soda and a candy bar.
00:54:16
Speaker
Really, that's all I want. didn't want to have to... is it And there's all the, it was a mix between like these earnest little kids and these giant guys. it was like, I'm beating all these so children with my extras extra, extra meta deck. It's like, dude, I just want to buy a soda
Overcoming Campaign Challenges
00:54:38
Speaker
deck. Why do you need five booster packs? It's like, dude, I didn't even watch the show growing up. I'm not here to play that.
00:54:45
Speaker
I know that we have painted kind of a grim impression of that campaign. There was fun to be had. It was there was fun. The room wasn't red.
00:54:56
Speaker
Or like a comparison. It's like the old mark Mario Game Boy games. It's like you love some levels. Then you get to the water level and then it's just a drag.
00:55:07
Speaker
But then you get the back to the fun stuff. That's what we're doing. The fact that we talk about these games... even with a fondness for even like these less than stellar moments is proof that we had fun we still find it a we don't find it accurate this isn't like a ah dark moment where it's like woe is to uh us during these dark times like we have a little bit of fun with like discussing it and find something to find positive to explain to others it's a testament that daryl nick
00:55:43
Speaker
during that whole space station debacle, did anybody leave? Nope. I was trying to remember if anyone did or not, and I don't think so. We were the main three. That's one testament that they liked it.
00:55:56
Speaker
You know, if someone is just out of it, they're just, I'm out. Again, I would... I get like, a honestly, the GM asked me, like, are you still kind of like, i I just have like more complications. So I can only make it either like two sessions a month or one session in a month. But I can't at least made it to to at least one session in a month. And I'd be like, are we out of the session?
00:56:19
Speaker
it like no No, we're. But, you know, what one thing. But I was always like, OK, let's that's maybe maybe this the Now, and the really sad part is once we did get off the station and get the parts back, just because of life and scheduling, there was a gap in there in some sessions.
00:56:44
Speaker
And I think he took the lesson of that frustration to heart because the repairs to the ship were proceeding quickly behind the scenes in the sessions that followed. The only reason the repairs, I think, didn't happen immediately in that gap is he introduced, we we got a hold of or unlocked somehow the plans for like a next stage venator. Yeah. that We, we then had to make the decision. do we just repair it back to factory spec that we know, or do we try to seek sponsorship from this rebel Alliance that we've heard about to upgrade it to these hypothetical next stage plans? Rebels, dirty separatists.
00:57:44
Speaker
ah Sadly, within like two sessions of us getting those plans and the actual campaign that we signed up for kind of starting in earnest, that's when the campaign fell apart. That's when the killer came in.
00:58:01
Speaker
Scheduling. The schedules looked at us and said, finish him i don't view it as a bad time. I don't think anyone of us viewed it as like an overall bad time.
00:58:13
Speaker
But it was definitely something that we've learned a lot from. And we were all generally, we were all giving it our, giving it the old college try. Yes.
00:58:25
Speaker
So engagement, disengagement, it's all a combination of personal growth, group growth. and just creative growth. But it does require a certain amount of like, I think that the ultimate thing is like, GMs can be lost in their idea sometimes.
00:58:43
Speaker
Sometimes they see like the grand big picture and the players are left picking up the pieces and thinking like, well, where do I fit in?
00:58:55
Speaker
Robert, I will tell you, I know that while you're not a player in my Star Wars Rebel Yell campaign, you occasionally stop by and play a chaos agent NPC, hang her on.
00:59:08
Speaker
hi So I know that you were around for the start of their time on the wheel. Yes, because I've got them in trouble. went So when what I figured was going to be two sessions on the wheel started to stretch into a third, I consciously thought of that campaign.
00:59:32
Speaker
And I was consciously thinking, okay, I need to find a way to try to ensure that the third session on the wheel gets them off of the wheel.
00:59:44
Speaker
Because I don't want... Partly because I did just plain didn't want them to get stuck on the wheel. But I also know that all of the players are either Nick, who was there for it, or have heard us tell the stories of that campaign. And I didn't want... What do you say Our next session is going to be like our 87th on the wheel?
01:00:09
Speaker
Nick, you were only on the wheel for... You've been off of the wheel longer now than you were on the wheel. I think it's been a few months, Nick. I think you're off by now. Yes, you've been off the wheel for quite a while.
01:00:22
Speaker
Do you ever leave the wheel? are you always just spinning? he's getting philosophical on this. He's getting philosophical. Maybe we should pick on him. Oh, no. But before we pick on him, any any last thoughts on on reading the room? I know that we spent half of the episode just recounting a story of when the room wasn't read.
01:00:48
Speaker
But, uh, rubb Hey, that story was a fable. It had a moral lesson in it. It does. And I'm not saying that just because I did a trivia night yesterday. Oh, I've argued smarter than a fifth grader.
01:01:00
Speaker
Were you? Allegory counts, too.
01:01:06
Speaker
I know why not. It says it in the description. It counts. Yeah. ah ah oh But and what ah what final thoughts do we do we have on reading the room?
01:01:22
Speaker
asking Asking how the players is not a admission of like, am I doing bad? It's just like checking checking the room. And as a GM, if you can, take note of how in the beginning and going forward every session, how each player players growing into their character, how they're interacting with themselves, the environment and the each other, and see how you can build up on that to keep engagement.
01:01:49
Speaker
Try and notice if ah if individual players are struggling or not being as engaged. It could be as simple as like they're having a hard time focusing or could be like your you need to give a little bit more enrichment.
01:02:05
Speaker
Exactly. And where like we said in the beginning, Don't view disengagement as you are failing. It just means zig a little bit this way instead.
01:02:18
Speaker
Spice things up a little bit. get Give them a reason to engage. And again, it's like like like you said, Robert, it's like, don't take it personally.
01:02:29
Speaker
It could be just as simple as like, they didn't sleep well, or they're having they're having a rough time IRL, it just needs like a, like a reaver. Yeah, this is not a video game where everything's already been made out, so you can't change it. You can change it in the middle. And and and sometimes they sometimesize they come here to, to like, let that out that and they'll feel better. Like it may not be like the perfect scenario for them, but they'd be like, they're letting that out. Like, yeah, they they feel better hanging out with friends.
01:03:01
Speaker
And you know, the thinking about it too.
Building a Gaming Community
01:03:06
Speaker
with the right group of players, that extended stay on the PlayStation would have slayed.
01:03:12
Speaker
You're right. Yeah, get you, get you, Betsy and Tiffany in a room, even that station would have been burned to the ground. No, I mean, with with the kind with a group of players who were 100% on that same page with the GM.
01:03:31
Speaker
Yeah, that... that because You could never you could yeah get you'd never know what like like sometimes the most absurd idea could be. Everybody's like, no, no, I dig this.
01:03:43
Speaker
Or you know i maybe you maybe you're right, Robert. Maybe it required you know just it required shenette more shenanigans. than we Although that same campaign, yeah you know our little Tibers running gag?
01:03:57
Speaker
That's where it was born. They're also wherever I came in like on like, like the second month and say like, can we just steal the station?
01:04:09
Speaker
then you, yes i I said that that out of frustration. And then you looked at me and it's like, you know, no way. I looked at him and said, of us, of us. ju ah i i where I was like, can we just steal the station now?
01:04:28
Speaker
He's like, we've pretty lived on it. that This is the perfect part to to drop one of our our new audio clips. They'll shenanigans.
01:04:40
Speaker
Yes, and I like it. He has anything else? I can't think of anything. Like said, just take the temperature check in with everybody every so often, especially if you feel that, get a sense yeah that a session or a particular storyline just didn't didn't grab everybody the way that you thought it would. and yeah we have we have but We have modern conveniences. it it If you don't feel like pulling someone aside before the end or outside, it like you can always contact them via Discord, social media, or text message. Any way that makes it more comfortable without making them feel like they're singled out as well.
01:05:24
Speaker
Yep, or you you can tie a note to a squirrel and send it to them to ask. Oh, well. A messenger squirrel. yeah yeah I wouldn't do that. then Since I talked about it Nick, trivia question for you. Very easy one.
01:05:38
Speaker
What U.S. state is the closest to Africa? ah That's Florida? It's Maine. I was about to guess Maine. It's Maine? It would have just been a pure guess. Yes, because you have to remember the world is round, so that map you look at is a lie.
01:05:56
Speaker
oh It's not even round, it's spherical. it's it's It's more of it's more of a an oblong circle. with Oh, you're right, that would be Maine. If I'd known we were going to go down that rabbit hole, I would have pulled the... ah the clip from the Superman movie from last summer when Lois called the T-Sphere's circles. He's like, it's not a circle!
01:06:21
Speaker
It's a sphere! A circle's flat! yeah That i would be main.
01:06:30
Speaker
Yes, and it's our duty to be main to you, Nick. I see what you did there. you got me there. I had a T-Sphere.
01:06:41
Speaker
You earned it. You earned it. Him and your bad shot. see, I can't beat that pun tonight. Robert wins. Robert, you got it.
01:06:53
Speaker
yes ah Then I suppose we'll end on the high note. Bravo! So head on over to howwerollgaming.com, your central hub for everything How We Roll Gaming. You'll find details on our current campaigns, our full podcast archive, plus quick links to our merch store and all our social channels so you can stay connected wherever you hang out online. And speaking of our merch store, just mere days after this episode drops, when we hit June,
01:07:29
Speaker
All of our current limited edition funny slogan t-shirts will go away to make room for our 2026 Roll with Pride collection. And after after June is up, I have some ideas for some new little funny slogan shirts. your idea of them one One of them might have been hinted at before. shenanigans. They'll shenanigans.
01:07:57
Speaker
Yeah, we can make one. It's like, are we off the station yet? yeah
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Speaker
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Speaker
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01:08:33
Speaker
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01:08:45
Speaker
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Episode Closure
01:08:54
Speaker
I'm waking. I am not on the camera, but i can wink. No, you're not.
01:08:58
Speaker
so You could get on the camera. No. Yes. But I'm a coward. Thanks as always for joining us. Until next time, play smart, play bold, and always leave room for chaos.
01:09:15
Speaker
I'm Daryl. I'm Nick. And I'm Robert. And this is How We Roll. This episode of the How We Roll Gaming podcast is copyright 2026, How We Roll Gaming, LLC.
01:09:30
Speaker
All games and associated intellectual properties are copyright their respective owners, and How We Roll Gaming makes no claim of ownership by discussing them here.