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Roll Proud - LGBTQ+ Representation in Gaming
27 Plays11 days ago
This episode, Daryl and Nick welcome Betsy and Lauren to discuss LGBTQ+ representation and inclusion in tabletop gaming. Betsy talks about building welcoming tables where everyone can feel comfortable being themselves, while Lauren shares stories from the games she runs and the creative ways her players express identity through roleplaying. It's a thoughtful conversation about community, storytelling, and why gaming is at its best when everyone has a seat at the table.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
D20 Radio. at Your game is rolled.
00:00:17
Speaker
How We Roll Gaming is dedicated to spreading enjoyment of great role-playing games. We hope to bring you insights into games you may not have played, tips to be a better game master of player, and share us stories of momentous events at our tables.
00:00:29
Speaker
Every game is a new story to tell. I'm Daryl. I'm Nick. And here's Robert. And this is How We Roll.
Hosts Introduction and Robert's Absence
00:00:43
Speaker
Welcome back to the How We Roll Gaming Podcast, everybody. Hope everyone is doing well. Nick, I have you with me. I hope that you are doing well, too. I am. it's It's been a harsh week, but I'm doing well.
00:00:55
Speaker
Glad to hear from you. Well, it we will hopefully, you know, at least be able to put that aside for a little bit while we chat tonight. We we don't have Robert. Robert is out on assignment again. we say in the biz.
00:01:12
Speaker
he's doing He's doing his thing, but he's he's left. But we're not alone on this one. Nope, we've called in backup. So before we get to the backup, let's get business out of the way.
Podcast Recommendation - 'I Should Roll'
00:01:24
Speaker
And if you're looking for another great show from the D20 Radio Network, check out I Should Roll, a sci-fi actual play podcast filled with adventure, mystery, and memorable characters.
00:01:38
Speaker
With outstanding roleplay, engaging storytelling, and all the unexpected twists that come from a tabletop RPG, it's easily recommended for fans of science fiction and actual plays alike.
00:01:54
Speaker
Search for i Said Role wherever you get your podcasts and join the adventure.
LGBTQ+ Representation in Gaming
00:01:59
Speaker
All right, so for this episode, being that it's going to be dropping right at the end of June, right at the end of Pride Month, we're talking about LGBTQ plus representation, experiences, and perspectives in gaming.
00:02:14
Speaker
From the characters we create and the worlds we build to fostering welcoming tables and inclusive gaming spaces, we're diving into how identity and storytelling intersect in our hobby.
00:02:27
Speaker
So whether you're a longtime player, a new gamer looking for your place at the table, or a GM trying to build a more inclusive game for your group, we're sharing our thoughts, experiences, and a few lessons we've picked up along the way.
00:02:42
Speaker
So grab your dice. That may or may not be in your flag colors. Pull up a chair. That you're incapable of sitting in like a normal person. What? These are semi-universal experiences for us. Come on.
Inclusivity in Gaming with Betsy and Lauren
00:02:54
Speaker
Join us. You have your corner. You have your corner. And join us as we talk about pride representation and the many ways tabletop gaming can help people tell the stories that matter to them. And one of our backups has already been providing backups. We have familiar voices to the podcast with us. We have Betsy and Lauren joining us again. It's us. yeah should have put in like I should have put in like a crowd applause sound. Or like, you know, the Price is Right theme or something. ah Yes, yes. Come on down! a little bit.
00:03:33
Speaker
You are probably the best friend I'll admit as a DM. I am I am new to the understanding of these things, but I am very inclusive.
00:03:46
Speaker
But I also will say that I'm not the most versed on these, so I'm glad to have some voices that can speak. Yes, yes. There's a reason why my players are leasing out more than yours. To amend. Yes. and i So we are going to break.
00:04:03
Speaker
I will teach you ways. We are going to break with format just a little bit and provide some introductions for everyone. So who would like to go first?
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah. Start, Betsy. Okay, I'm Betsy. um You may have heard me on the other sister podcast, or I was on one episode of this. um I use she here pronouns, and I am your local pansexual.
00:04:30
Speaker
Lovely, lovely. I suppose I'll go next. I'm Lauren. You might have seen me on an episode two of this podcast, or most of the episodes on the Sister Podcast, and maybe even on my own YouTube channel. I go by she, her pronouns. I'm a trans woman, and I'm asexual. I've got multiple of those little letters going on in there.
00:04:54
Speaker
you have allt You have so many of the flags. Yes, yes, I have ultimate power. many. You're those LGBTQIA, etc. that they always talk about. I'm at least a couple of those, yeah. you're you're you're You're the plus.
00:05:07
Speaker
And I'm Daryl, he, him. I am a cis bi man. Lovely. And Nick? I am...
Journey of Identity and Understanding
00:05:20
Speaker
I'm Nick, I go by.
00:05:22
Speaker
he, him, I am cis, but I have some, I have things that I'm still trying to work out. Alright. Everyone's trying to figure everything themselves out.
00:05:35
Speaker
It's part of the fun. That is the letter the questioning. he Or just queer, which goes for everything. Yes, yes, yes. I want to say that my only problem with the LGBTQ plus thing is that why do to bring math into it?
00:05:52
Speaker
sometimes ah Hey, sometimes it's an asterisk. I would refer to that. Nick is just lucky that I do not have the calculator plush in arm's reach.
00:06:03
Speaker
And that he's not at reach if you'd throw it at him. i I do have a drawer full of, you know, like 30 calculators sitting right here next to me. Beautiful. what do i why i think It's newest model.
00:06:15
Speaker
It's our newest model. I mean, I guess that's good since it's well known throughout the land that gays can't do math. nick Nick is now traumatized and and curling up into a ball in a corner.
00:06:27
Speaker
And that's why I can do math, because I'm ace. Yeah, there's like the little math brain cell, and it's only like shared amongst a very few select queer people, and then the rest of us just can't math at all. I have the power.
00:06:39
Speaker
All right, so let's dive in.
Comfort Levels and Boundaries in Gaming
00:06:42
Speaker
Let's dive in. Lauren, you brought the topic to us. It is a an awesome and timely topic. So... I will give you the floor to start.
00:06:52
Speaker
Very well. So one thing that I will of course note is that different tables have different tones and sometimes matters of sex and romance simply won't be a substantial part of the narrative that a particular group is comfortable with.
00:07:07
Speaker
At the same time, Some tables may have that as a core element to what they want to do. Getting a read on what the group as a whole find amenable is ah is important, as these factors can simultaneously be highly cathartic or potentially trigger traumatic memories depending on the execution and in particular the agency players have in the situation.
00:07:33
Speaker
You know, it's ah it's important to make sure that ah whatever you're doing, everybody is on board with it, that you're you're able to be welcoming to all the players involved.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah, I would say this kind of ties back into what, I think you guys already had an episode about this, but like a session zero manifesto kind of deal. yeah Yeah, yeah. As far as like trying to set those boundaries from the get-go.
00:07:56
Speaker
that That's exactly where I was about to go. then go ahead. Well, I think that we've mentioned it a couple of times that after this year's Session Zero Manifesto update,
00:08:08
Speaker
we came up with the idea of a session zero agreement that as both of you know, because you're part of our group, we've been testing out with our group this year.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah. Where we we go down the list and ah get a read of where everybody stands on different topics and tones and things like that. And one of the things on the list, on the version that we're using is a, whether we want to fade to black on things or,
00:08:44
Speaker
you know what rating do we want to give the campaign? Metaphorically, yeah. Which is is tailored in tone and approach to our tone and approach with anyone who has seen all of us together gaming. of Hey, Steve, are you listening? no Knows that we have a not unsarcastic and snarky approach to things.
00:09:12
Speaker
And so it does say anyone who says NC-17 needs to get out, but no, they don't. It's just funnier if you put it that way. Yes, exactly. more like Everyone has to agree on that. and like Yeah. It has to be agreed upon. Yeah, exactly. There was there are certain things that were like, it's not as in in completely like as draconian as it is calling it an MPA rating. It's like,
00:09:41
Speaker
we could have like blood cuts and other stuff, but like, they have to be in degrees. Like, yeah. And would say like, you we could run an alien camp campaign, PT 13.
00:09:55
Speaker
It wouldn't be as cool in my opinion, but that's how it that is. Well, and some systems honestly don't lend themselves necessarily to like, Walking Dead?
00:10:09
Speaker
Walking Dead does not... Anytime any anyone gets you close like that at all on The Walking Dead, you know that they're next up to be on the couch on Talking Dead.
00:10:21
Speaker
Or it's like, be honest, there, that's just me. I'm... time If if there's the walking there there was a Talking Dead, says it for our campaign.
00:10:32
Speaker
I'm there like every other week.
Exploring Romance in Games
00:10:34
Speaker
The reason why I bring this up in the first place is because whenever it comes to our particular group, the matters of sex and romance aren't really substantial themes that we operate with usually. Sometimes there will be a romance between some characters.
00:10:51
Speaker
But it's not every game. It's only ah on occasional games, and it's usually not a huge focus of any particular narrative element. on On a very rare occasion, it will be a plot element. Like, I know there's something about that in the D&D game that's been going on. Okay, get me started. was There was. There were some things that occurred.
00:11:13
Speaker
but And those were meant to be story points, too. Honestly, I feel that's a good point. to Romance? I've still got a bit more, but... you know Yeah, go go ahead. by week week yeah We can cover that in a bit, Nick. yes by By contrast, I run my own games online, and the players that I have in my own games are very interested in this sort of stuff. They're much more interested in romantic elements.
00:11:44
Speaker
ah and so Are you going to tell them how you described it? i'll get to that later i've got a i've got a part but uh you'll you'll see you see it in the notes down there but uh in a general sense i run two different games uh i've mentioned them before here one is net battlers based on the megaman battle network series and the other is ginso narrow to graph based on the toho series of video games and in net battlers they have much more of an emphasis on romancing each other, whereas in Narratograph, they have a much greater emphasis on romancing the NPCs.
00:12:22
Speaker
And i definitely have more to say about both of these elements a bit later on, but for now I just want to bring up the fact that, you know, the the fact that these different groups that i'm a part of have very different emphasis gives me a very different experience with both groups, not just for being in-person online, respectively, and not just for being a player and being a GM, respectively, but also just because there's a fundamentally different focus of what people are expecting and what people are wanting out of the game. And I think that's very cool.
00:12:59
Speaker
ah You know, it's ah it's very nice being able to do some more... action heavy, I guess you could say, stuff with y'all, but then the more deepened character dynamics found in my online games also have their own appeal that I'm able to lean into more in a different respect.
00:13:20
Speaker
And it's just, ah it's neat seeing different people playing games different ways. You're correct that most of it has been action-based, but there are some in it's certain games that I am running in the future,
00:13:35
Speaker
will have more of that interpersonal role playing rather than the accent base in order to build that core development. Not to spoil any sort of campaigns that I have in the future, but definitely is something I've been exploring with something I haven't done before.
00:13:56
Speaker
So it's interesting. It's great to hear that that is ah that might be interesting to but the players. Yeah. I know that I have tended to, as a GM, I haven't consciously avoided or or highlighted those sorts of themes simply because in most cases, I have a a vibe of the group.
00:14:25
Speaker
And so we i think that there are some of us who would be more open to exploring stories like that.
00:14:39
Speaker
But I also am 100% certain that, that there are members of the group who either wouldn't be comfortable with it or just plain wouldn't get it.
00:14:53
Speaker
and That's fair as well. yeah so I've been running games probably similarly as long as he was like that's why I'm thinking like for these campaigns I've been waiting a while before come with these concepts to maybe introduce and again I'm not introducing them as a hard fact but it's like an option this is just kind of a ah funny thing that some some friends of ours that that we used to know, well, we still know one of them that my wife and I know, um who almost exclusively were D&D players.
00:15:32
Speaker
And I kept trying to sell them on Star Wars. And basically, they're like, well, we'd be great we'd be willing to try it. can can Can you put us together? like Basically, without saying it in so many words, they wanted like Skinamax Star Wars.
00:15:49
Speaker
And I was like, let me see what I can come up with. mean, it's certainly possible. It's possible, but I was having a hard time coming up with... I was having a hard time meshing...
00:16:07
Speaker
Star Wars with... i wouldn't call late-night Cinemax NC-17, but it's somewhere between... i did c seventeen and ike for that If we had to go with the MPA, it's like MA. That would be more the TV version. MA.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, and I just... i and i i was having I was having trouble with it, and well and then they split up, so it became a non-issue anyway. so ah But honestly, Darryl... Honestly, Darryl, as I... Yeah, there are a lot of people that I know online that be like, Star Wars is mature.
00:16:50
Speaker
It has mature ideas and concepts, but like it always does skew towards Star Wars' force. kids and families for the most part.
00:17:05
Speaker
yeah What were you about say, Betsy? Oh, I was to say, I feel like this kind of ties back into some of what we talked about with the Session Zero manifesto of what we want from a game. Because I think some of that also kind of comes down to, like, is the campaign going to be something that's more, like, plot-heavy, or is it going to be more character-heavy? And, like, where you find the space to spend time focusing on those aspects of, like, you know, interpersonal relationships between characters versus like, you know, whatever the ongoing like general plot of the campaign is and finding a way to balance those. Cause sometimes it's hard to like find that balance or to find a way to focus on one without it being to the detriment of the other or having to like, you know, completely stop what you're doing to focus on one and then go back to the other or anything like that.
00:17:52
Speaker
So I think that's like just kind of in, interesting thing to think about, like, how to find a good balance to create those moments without, like, ah of they losing the plot.
Character Identity and Exploration
00:18:02
Speaker
Honestly, fair. Like, say that you are a, again, using a Star Wars example, you are a rebel group. you You could be a rebel group that's like, you're you're doing big missions, you're blowing up Imperial machines, but you could also be A small group, rebel cell doing like dubious missions and spycraft.
00:18:31
Speaker
Where there could be like moments like this could be where moments of intimacy, regardless of character or species, or could be a plot point.
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah. i Go ahead, Betsy. I was going to say, one good example I can think of is like Dante in various games. He's one of our players, and he's created a lot of scenarios that involve like him and an NPC's like existing or developing relationship and like how to fit that in just as a matter of course organically like during gameplay.
00:19:03
Speaker
I wouldn't say he's a challenge, but it is something that I have enjoyed working with him on. has like these strong characters and these ideas, like even though not initially put into the gameplay. He does have some strong ideas that make for great gameplay moments.
00:19:23
Speaker
and I think it's cool how he finds a way to like tie those like character things, including like you know even just romances with an NPC, into his character's overall arc.
00:19:34
Speaker
Honestly, some some of the best moments I've had with him was for his introducing a love, an ex-love interest. It's like, he he gave me no details on it. it's like But i played off of that. It's like, to a made a femme fatale that worked off of him, and he was like, this is fitting the the idea that he had with about him even explicitly giving me the details.
00:20:02
Speaker
For the record, Dante is also one of us. Yes. He's also one of the Alphabet Mafia. Yes, but he it was it was fun that he sort of gave that impression, and then without me him telling me what the character was, I, as the GM for that season, I created a character that I was like, okay, he has an antagonist.
00:20:25
Speaker
So I went with the classic femme fatale, and it's like, Well, it worked. It worked. for the it worked They sparred verbally, and it it felt it felt right. We played off of each other. Yeah, and I think like you know going from that, when it comes to like queer player characters, queer characters or anything, it's kind of following the same path where you know you let players kind of see what organically they want to put in with their characters as well and just kind of go with the flow.
00:20:54
Speaker
He didn't imply anything about the nature of the character. herefore So I went with the most obvious, a classic femme fatale, but it could have been a male character or otherwise. I just went with the if my personal default.
00:21:13
Speaker
There is also the fact that ah out of everybody in the group, ah Dante is the only one who has ever tried to initiate a romantic dynamic with any of my characters, particularly my character Tay in The Walking Dead, who is a gender ambiguous individual. Unfortunately, this being The Walking Dead, that that didn't really work out too well.
00:21:37
Speaker
Because that character yeah is kind of dead. That character ended up on the couch on Talking Dead. Well, your character is also invisible.
00:21:49
Speaker
was going to say, they have to see your character first. no nobody ah Nobody knows what Tay's gender is because they don't ever pay attention enough to them. don't think anyone even knows what Tay's face looks like. no, though they They're just like this general outline of someone wearing a hoodie.
00:22:05
Speaker
There is an impression of Tay, and they exist. But honest honestly, like, if I... i canonically Canonically, everybody thinks that Tay's gender is whatever gender they are.
00:22:19
Speaker
So men see Tay as a man, women see Tay as a woman. Non-binary people see Tay as non-binary. But, uh, because nobody nobody pays enough attention to Tay because I maxed out Tay's stealth stat as much as possible. That's just Tay.
00:22:36
Speaker
honestly I think that's another fun example, though, where, like, there was never any point where it's, like, you know, you had to come out and say, okay, guys, Tay is a character of indeterminate gender. Just want to make sure you all get that through your head. It was just, oh, cool. This is who your character is. Awesome. Sounds great.
00:22:51
Speaker
Yeah. I will also note that apparently, i think, I think, Daryl, you had some implication that like the the mob boss's daughter might be interested in Tay, which would imply some things about her own sexuality, considering that she would see Tay as a fellow woman after all. which good for her.
00:23:13
Speaker
That's a storyline that I didn't think... I remember that. oh yeah you got you You haven't brought up the mob boss daughter in a while, but it was only brief moment anyway. think but i feel only one episode. Oh no, she's not the one who who ended up getting killed because she tried to kill you.
00:23:28
Speaker
yeah that was Yeah, that was different character. Nah, see, i so many of those... so many the incidental characters in that campaign just walk through a scene that I don't remember most of them.
00:23:41
Speaker
Well, now now you can remember that she's there. She's she's there. do She apparently has some interest in lezzing out or something. Because i I have made no secret on this show or to any of you that that is my lowest prep campaign.
00:23:58
Speaker
I come up with a a general like, okay, Here's something that they will at least set out to accomplish this session.
00:24:09
Speaker
Go. And then let chaos reign. hey is the honest i that carry the be because they will die the characters that you've all come up with are so strong that any more prep than that that I do is going to be to the detriment of the session.
00:24:27
Speaker
Yeah, i was kind of thinking about that earlier, actually, when we were talking, you briefly mentioned Walking Dead. I feel like that's a game where as much as there's a plot, it also is very much like very character heavy. So that would be the kind of game where you could explore something like that as much as, you know, whoever like explores that, they their...
00:24:44
Speaker
like potential partner, love interest, whatever, may end up on the couch. I mean, it's still a good place to explore it, and there's not a guarantee they'll end up on the couch immediately after. Chris Hartwick might have to wait a little bit.
00:24:56
Speaker
Well, and Dante's character got a little... think that would be a fun way. Dante's character got a little action after a trauma, so... Yep. So, you know, it's it's not unheard of in Walking Dead, but it's also...
00:25:11
Speaker
that moment came out of how Dante's character and that NPC had acted earlier in the session. And so it it was the right beat to throw at that moment. An emotional moment. is So what i what I mean by saying the Walking Dead campaign is,
00:25:33
Speaker
is probably not the game for that is more that I don't sit down and say like, o okay, let's come up with a romance for this session.
00:25:45
Speaker
I'm sipping it. That's where the PCs and the NPCs go. That's where they go. Honestly, I think it's kind of that's kind of the best way to do it, to just let your player characters decide if that's something they want to do on their own and just roll with it. Yeah. Literally and figuratively.
00:26:02
Speaker
you It's not a very good idea to try to force any sort of romance sort of situation. now so you you You need to make sure that ah the players are on board with it, unless the point is that they're being like weird and creepy and uncomfortable. Yeah.
00:26:18
Speaker
more like your Your game is like taking place on a dating show or whatever. I don't know. Or actually, at our first Gamer Nation Con, Stephanie played in a game that was supposed to be, it it was basically a telenovela. Yes, that's where it'd be built into it because that's like kind of how telenovelas work. Yeah, and she said it was a scream. She said it was so much fun. I believe it. That sounds like a great time. I think it was a free download. I think I have it somewhere.
00:26:49
Speaker
Anyway, that that that was a small rabbit hole. yeah but We've gotten in deeper rabbit holes. But yeah, yeah like let letting the characters go where they where they are, it's like in...
Character Dynamics in RPG Campaigns
00:27:01
Speaker
our nearly concluded alien campaign. well My Colonial Marine, you know, just in his bio when it was created, he joined the Colonial Marines because he wanted cool stories to to use as pickup lines.
00:27:18
Speaker
That's as specific as I got about that. And there was that one downtime session, Betsy, where your character and mine were in the bar and he was hitting on men and women alike.
00:27:28
Speaker
Yep, we both were. Yes. and And we were both failing miserably. And then we got into a discussion about how you don't like Keanu Reeves, and I was like, he seems like a lovely person. Wait, is that in character or out? I don't remember.
00:27:44
Speaker
Honestly, I don't either at this point. That was in character. i As GM, that was in character. And meanwhile, what I'm doing in that game is that my character, Dennis, is a closeted trans woman. And if she survives to the end, we will have a flash forward to post-transition.
00:28:04
Speaker
And nobody will know of Dennis. Nobody will ever know of Dennis. It's true. If anyone survives the the the final session of this campaign... At some point, we're we're all going to be in an extremely dangerous situation, and Dennis is going to come out to you and reveal that she is a woman, and then she will be the final girl at the end of the movie. Can you defeat the alien king? Mm-hmm.
00:28:33
Speaker
i'd be there for it i'd be here for it can you defeat the alien king it's just like don't know it's gonna be difficult respectfully that's my job true true do do we need to defeat the alien king or do we just need to survive long enough to get the hell out ambiguous yes the answer is yes both are difficult i understand but one is probably less difficult than the other but how do you know for sure which is which that's the real question that's a that's a more of like a 60 40 situation then
00:29:05
Speaker
Because if you're on the world with the Alien King, have to get off of that. And you don't a transport off of that after the last mission. I thought you established that we did have a way off with the with the capsules.
00:29:23
Speaker
Yeah, we had a whole thing about that. Yeah, but that's why I specifically you... Who needs one and who doesn't? Yeah, I specifically asked we got the capsules, then would we actually be able to get off the planet using the capsules, or were the capsules just there and not able to leave?
00:29:40
Speaker
And you you did say that ah if we got to the capsules, they would allow us to leave. yeah Yes. So you have to get to the capsules. But it's going be very difficult. Understandable. Hey, we just we just need to find some people to Otis.
00:29:53
Speaker
There we go. it was Circling back to Walking Dead, we need to find somebody to Otis. Walking Dead, the TV show that turned Otis into a verb. Lauren, for since I know you don't watch much TV, especially live action TV, there was an episode in season two of Walking Dead where two of the characters were trying to get away from a horde of zombies, ah Shane and Otis.
00:30:16
Speaker
And Shane was kind of an asshole who had lived on the show longer than he did in the comic. Do have any idea how little that narrows it down with characters, Daryl? Right. I'm just, you know kind of painting a picture here. He was the asshole.
00:30:32
Speaker
To give you another another frame of reference, Otis was played by... the actor who played Pa Kent in last summer's Superman, which I know you saw.
00:30:42
Speaker
Because you saw him with us. Yes. And so Shane and Otis are running from a horde of zombies with late equipment that they had, that they had gotten from this school that they'd gotten into.
00:30:55
Speaker
Shane pulls out his gun and he shot Otis in the kneecap and kept running. So that all of the zombies swarmed on Otis. And so ever since then, harming someone so that the enemies that are following you focus on them is known as Otising.
00:31:15
Speaker
Well, all right. That's another rabbit hole. we We all know that we do these rabbit holes. All of us do them. It's true. if They're kind of unavoidable. Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:26
Speaker
You know just let let the characters go where the characters go. okay Yeah, I mean, I kind of have a whole paragraph on that. well go Well, then go into it. Okay, I will.
00:31:39
Speaker
It's Betsy paragraph time.
Supporting Queer Character Creation
00:31:42
Speaker
I mean, this isn't as long as they usually are. i like made it more concise. Usually you have multiple Walzo text.
00:31:51
Speaker
It's true. I kept this pretty concise, so you're welcome, everybody. but We're properly. You have the right to do that. So you may proceed. But anyway, like here's my tip to all GMs. Just support your characters and support your players in making queer characters.
00:32:08
Speaker
That's it. That's the tip. Like, no, seriously, like regardless of game setting, regardless of other player characters or r NPCs, regardless of you know players' feelings, regardless even of your own, especially As a GM, like GMs have an obligation to let players express various identities with their characters free from harassment or bigotry or you know general assholery.
00:32:32
Speaker
i mean For one, it's just basic human decency. like Character creation is about creating an identity to live in and play with. That's part of what actually makes it fun. And hey, for some people, part of that identity is being queer.
00:32:44
Speaker
feel like supporting that just goes a long way to help ensure like a safe and respectful gaming environment for all your players. and and Speaking of players, I feel like there's a lot to be said about the benefits of like using a character to explore different identities in a way that maybe a person can't or isn't ready to in real life.
00:33:03
Speaker
like A game could offer a space to do that like in a ah so like safe, low stakes environment where they can, you know, experiment to kind of learn about themselves, which I think is really cool. And then, you know, I've also been talking about player characters, but honestly, the same holds for like your actual real world players at a table because at the end of the day respect is mandatory, like full stop.
00:33:22
Speaker
Do not pass go, do not collect 200 gold. I don't know the monopoly metaphor was getting away from me, but it doesn't matter if like others at the table don't understand because at the end of the day, like they don't have to understand because it's not about them.
00:33:35
Speaker
All that's required is respecting the is existence of the people you game with. So what does that look like in practice? Honestly, a lot of things. You know, it can look like setting boundaries around language and conversations among the group. It can look like someone asking questions if they want to learn or better understand something.
00:33:52
Speaker
can look like normalizing asking for pronouns like you know we did during our intros just saying our pronouns and making that a normal thing people do it can look like using an individual's correct name and pronouns both from the get-go and if they change really above all it just kind of looks like making an effort oh and something else i want to highlight just kind of on that tangent we're all humans and sometimes we make mistakes and misspeak or say the wrong things and like that's okay it happens speaking from personal experience here It's uncomfortable, yeah, but not the end of the world. Like, all you got to do is apologize, correct yourself, do better next time. That's it. That is probably the best explanation of all things. And it's something that I've had to learn.
00:34:33
Speaker
i've I've made many mistakes in my past. And I still make mistakes. I'm i'm bad. You're human. You will make mistakes. with With names. and But I do not intend it.
00:34:47
Speaker
Because I make mistakes with names and pronouns. I do not intentionally do those. The only name mistakes that we won't let you live down, Nick, is when whenever you call Stephanie or Betsy Dana because Dana hasn't been in the group for like seven years.
00:35:08
Speaker
a Supposedly supposed to come back at some point. You're trying to manifest it by calling us her name. ah but But I am saying that I have made those mistakes in the past. and i would say hey Most people have.
00:35:26
Speaker
Part of it is. It's not something that you do like with malicious intent because that's why it's a mistake. And you know the best thing you can do that I've learned is just you you know apologize, correct yourself, and do better next time. And as far as the apologizing part goes too, it's not like you know you get on your knees and grovel and make a big deal out of it. Like, oh, I'm so sorry. I can't believe I messed up because that just makes it an uncomfortable situation. And now you're putting it on the other person to like have to forgive you.
00:35:51
Speaker
i just said just like that I'm sorry. I screwed up. I didn't realize I did it. Yeah, because in a couple a couple episodes ago, whenever y'all were talking about people leaving games, y'all brought me up, and y'all started out by using they-them for me, and then y'all eventually shifted into using he-him.
00:36:12
Speaker
And so, you know, that's not that's not right. So hopefully the next time that y'all bring me up in one of these, yeah y'all i you know I would hope that y'all will use she-her, as I would greatly appreciate that.
00:36:26
Speaker
And you know what, I'm not gonna, you know, annihilate you or grill you over the holes over it. You're going to everybody with trans lasers. Yes, yes, I will fire at my annihilation beam of the infinite hamster vortex, but we'll get to that later. I obviously can't speak for Nick.
00:36:45
Speaker
I didn't even realize that I had done that. It was, I can almost certainly say it just came out of flow of conversation, so I apologize. That's where the self-awareness comes in. But I will say that like when I realized it and you brought that to my attention, I did not feel offended.
00:37:04
Speaker
I felt like I was... a I was like, I did... I acknowledged that I made a mistake. And again, it's just nomenclature.
00:37:16
Speaker
It's... And ultimately, like, i I... There are multiple ways I could excuse it, but, like, it was a mistake. I understand. You know, I just, I just hope that going in the future, if y'all bring me up again, y'all use the correct pronouns.
00:37:30
Speaker
and yeah and advancely when i And if there's any other future mistakes, feel free to call us out and I will be perfectly fine with like apologizing and doing my best to, uh, mainly because just bad with identifying people in general.
00:37:51
Speaker
Understandable. I mean, hey, Lauren, I think I told you that if I ever use like wrong names or pronouns, just feel free to throw something at me. I meant that literally. That's what I tell everyone. Just throw something at me and I'll learn.
00:38:01
Speaker
Well, I don't tend to throw things at people, but I'll keep that in mind. Well, I mean, just don't, you know, concuss me. Well, maybe because i I've also misidentified entire people entirely.
00:38:14
Speaker
This is true. We're probably all just fast reaching the point that Nick's going to just start calling all of us Dana. Yeah, that that's the only way this can end. We're all Dana now.
00:38:26
Speaker
yeah Everything returns to Dana. Although, there is no data no wool only ze sotinization of Dana. Until Dana returns, there will only be everyone else, and then I'll call Dana. So wait, what you're saying is what you're saying is Dana will return.
00:38:47
Speaker
in aveng i don't have that clip loaded up here. damn mean do We don't do that running gag here. I was trying to set you up.
00:38:57
Speaker
That was a perfect setup, Daryl. It was, but we... but i do want This is chaos. We don't Avengers running gag here. And I'm probably the only one among us who got that joke.
00:39:14
Speaker
But can I say something about... I want to be honest about it. I don't understand a whole lot about the LGBTQ plus community.
00:39:26
Speaker
But I do value them. And... I do like to learn. I want to learn about, and they are people that I want to be friends with.
00:39:38
Speaker
Nick, you already are. i was going to say, uh... You're friends with all three us. Cross that bridge. and I mean... Is this what you're trying to say? you We're not your friends, Nick?
00:39:50
Speaker
Fine, tell us how you really feel. Your home is filled with us every weekend. Maybe he's saying that we're more than friends to him. Are we family?
00:40:02
Speaker
Aww. Nick loves us. Wait, has he changed the will yet? Does that mean he's changed the will? No. I'm trying'm trying to be to say that.
00:40:14
Speaker
I've expanded my ideas of like, of friendship, and it has been very inclusive. And it's part of my RPG journey. And I feel that that is integral to that.
00:40:30
Speaker
Everyone is included. Everyone is supposed to be is part of the RPG community. and it's because you can be who you want to be.
00:40:41
Speaker
You can be everyone regardless who you are and who you want to play. Absolutely. I mean, regardless of what game you're playing, what setting, whether or not your character is even human, RPG experiences at the end of the day are human experiences. Just, you know, with different, like, aesthetics and themes slapped on top.
00:41:02
Speaker
Are you an elf? Are you a twilight? Are you... can be anything. You can even be an explosion hamster. You sure can be an explosion hamster.
00:41:13
Speaker
Nick, I want to play a calculator in the next game then. Do it. Fine, sir. Nick, you be whatever I want but want to be a plushy calculator in the next game.
00:41:24
Speaker
Nice. Make it happen. Make it happen. Well, we we have a miniature. It's a bit big for a miniature, but cowboy. See, there you go. You already have the props.
00:41:41
Speaker
What I'm saying is that Yoda yo species ain't got nothing on the plushy calculator species. Yes, Nick, you're your ultimate point. yeah they I definitely hear what you're saying. And, you know, I do like to hear that. I think that's great that, you know, you found a way to like kind of expand your understanding of the different kinds of people that exist. And I think that's also a quintessentially human experience, too.
00:42:06
Speaker
Because our experiences are limited to ourselves, the things that we you know learn and see and in the world around us. And at the end of the we'll never really know anyone else's experience. But we can learn about them. We can ask about them.
00:42:20
Speaker
These aren't experiences. They are my experiences. But i as as a role play player, as also a GM, it's it's storytelling. I want to know about other experiences. and i and you are individuals that work with me to I'm just trying to say that it's great to see these other experiences.
00:42:47
Speaker
And I appreciate it. I hope that makes sense. Well, beautiful, Nick. And we appreciate that you do it for us. Yes, yes, we do. And you know, speaking of the the idea of a being a GM and exploring characters through them, there is...
Gender Exploration as a Game Master
00:43:07
Speaker
also the matter of gender exploration as a GM. Because while players can, of course, choose to experiment through gender through the creation acting of various characters, they tend to only create one character at a time. So it's really more of an opt-in situation for them.
00:43:28
Speaker
However, the GM is in a position that more so requires doing so to some extent. as otherwise the game would only have NPCs with a single gender throughout the entire narrative.
00:43:43
Speaker
On some level, being the GM and acting out characters of a variety of different roles and genders and, you know, ah elements does have a certain queerness to it in that regard.
00:43:57
Speaker
I'd super agree with that. As more experienced GMs, how do y'all feel about that? Honestly, I would ask, like, I've never asked this before, but, like, Slim C, he's been consistent character, but, uh, have you ever asked? Oh, I guess he's always presented male, so, but Slim C. Yeah, I mean, until I gave you the Duros Mini, because it just screamed the character to me, I just was always picturing Eminem.
00:44:32
Speaker
Although here's the fun thing with pronouns. Just because someone uses he, him doesn't mean they're a guy. Admittedly, I always i always just envision somebody in like a ah big cloaky trench coat completely covered in shadows. so Honestly, same. Who just sounds like Eminem.
00:44:50
Speaker
Gender ambiguous individual. See, the reason I didn't imagine have that mental picture is because one of the earliest groups that Nick introduced Slim Shady in, Slim Shady kept standing under a flickering light, and we went up and screwed it in so that it was, you know, solid, consistent light.
00:45:14
Speaker
you ah So i you part of my mental image was was undermining the bit and making the character able to be seen clearly.
00:45:29
Speaker
but Did you actually see the character clearly or did you just see what Slim Shady wanted you to see at that particular moment? i really much the We've established at this point that Slim Shady is a time lord so for therefore Slim Shady can be anyone or anything exactly because in the classic the only thing that's consistent is the classic doctor who we saw romana try on non-human body for regeneration the only consistent is that he has bone marrow which is the bone horse i was gonna say i love bone marrow bone marrow is friend
00:46:12
Speaker
but Yes, as a as a mysterious shady individual that people can't properly perceive, obviously shin Slim Shady is Tay in the future. i was literally going to make that joke.
00:46:26
Speaker
You stole my thing that I was going to say, Lauren. We need to figure out how Tay becomes Slim Shady in the future. Seriously, if Tay dies, is their future is theirs to the multiverse.
00:46:42
Speaker
Tay gets hit by a truck and is isekai to Slim Shady. Tay gets run over extroventional tourists. Yeah, there we go. what Why does Tay have to be in the Walking Dead...
00:46:55
Speaker
campaign because I can't bring myself to have the regeneration energy coming out of a character in Walking Dead. I just can't do it, I'm sorry. or That's the thing, Tay isn't Slim Shady yet. that This is how they become Slim Shady someday in the future.
00:47:14
Speaker
Which, as a multiversal entity, they just become a a sort of indignation yeah poor being Or is this like how, you know, Doctor Doom looks like Tony Stark?
00:47:31
Speaker
Oh, maybe. it is do day So many theories, so many theories! Tay is an alternate universe version of Slim Shady. There we go. And that's why Slim Shady can never appear in our Walking Dead games, because it would be a paradox. Yeah. Yes.
00:47:48
Speaker
the fabric of reality would start to tear apart. I mean, if he has a character that lasts more than like five sessions in Walking Dead, the fabric of reality will tear apart. You're not wrong.
00:47:59
Speaker
That's why it have to as i make one in season two. It's like, I am i have like some good ideas. Oh, boy. I think, too, that...
00:48:11
Speaker
Sadly, there are some GMs out there who use that as an excuse to let out some of their creepier and ickier views on...
00:48:25
Speaker
on other genders and other just other types of people in general that they just throw horrible stereotypes in as their NDCs because they are edge lords they're horrible people are sorry they're they're not willing to engage in a sincere exploration of different genders and different sorts of people It's a harmful expression of a fetish, but it's used as fetish. even necessarily a fetish. A lot of times it's just them trying to reduce things to their lowest common denominator in a way that makes us, you know, like a thing of ridicule.
00:49:09
Speaker
Either way, it's not not meant to actually use it as like a storytelling, even even it's like some people say like,
00:49:20
Speaker
Oh, it's being reduced to a storytelling element, but like it can be used as storytelling element, but it's it's used as, like, reducive and harmful.
00:49:32
Speaker
and In our piece of stories, it's hurting a player character, a.k.a. a person. a Yeah, I think at the end of the day, that's really what it comes down to as well. Like, you know, I've kind of touched on boundaries a little bit, but, like, it's whether or not...
00:49:49
Speaker
the things that you're doing as a player as a gm etc have any like real world harm on the people around you and you know having characters that are different genders different sexualities etc etc doesn't actually inflict any real world harm it's you know when you bring in your own prejudices and biases and Not like lack of understanding, but unwillingness to understand where problems arise. Yes.
00:50:18
Speaker
Most of it comes down to, unfortunately, to a great deal of bigotry. Unfortunately. Or some sort of phobia. It is, unfortunately, it's unkind, it's... Queer phobia is bigotry.
00:50:35
Speaker
Mm-hmm. It's just one flavor of it. It is... It's just an unfortunate part of things. Believe us, we know.
00:50:47
Speaker
We've lived it our whole lives. Again, I... I've seen it. It's been unfortunate. And now, I think you had something about one of your games, Lauren.
Humorous Min-Maxing Stories in Games
00:51:00
Speaker
Yes. Yes, the thing I've been wanting you to say this whole time. Yes, yes. the The thing that I'm... that In fact, it's not just you, Betsy. I have ah some other people who have been waiting for this moment as well. ah so we so So we take a seat down right now? like Oh yeah, oh yeah um it's about time. I'm gonna go. So, here we go.
00:51:23
Speaker
So, min-maxing. It's a thing that that happens in many different games. Honestly, it could probably be its own topic on this show. And there are many things that people can potentially min-max for.
00:51:36
Speaker
Min-maxing for damage, min-maxing for defense, min-maxing for as many actions as you could possibly take. All sorts of variants. My players have min-maxing in their own way.
00:51:49
Speaker
ah And what they've been min-maxing for Yuri. Which, for those who might not be familiar with the term, it's lesbianism. They're min-maxing for lesbianism.
00:52:01
Speaker
they're they're They're absolutely les-ing out over there. So... You know how he does Yuri is with girls. There you go. Yes, yes exactly. yeah And by no means it's not a bad thing. if a In most situations, it's like, yeah. yeah yeah so So here's how this has been going down. This has been happening particularly my Kinso Naratograph campaign, the Toho one.
00:52:30
Speaker
Toho is a video game series that is almost exclusively comprised of anime girls. that it was ah It started up in the late 90s, became particularly popular in 2002. If you know about you know all those series out there with within the like infinite anime girl vortex or whatever, a lot of them have their inspiration derived from Toho in some way or another.
00:52:55
Speaker
And so in that regard, ah there's there's a lot of girls in the series. the The primary creator of the series, Zun, doesn't have any real interest in depicting romantic situations. That just isn't what he's interested in doing. But ah naturally, there's a big fandom for, you know, shipping and all the girls being with each other in a variety of contexts.
00:53:21
Speaker
And so with that in mind... to be Mostly Yuri. Yes, yes. So with that in mind, as far as the actual mechanics of Toho go, ah there are two front there are two primary phases of the game.
00:53:35
Speaker
There's the investigation phase, and there is the combat phase. In the investigation phase, characters will go around a map of the world called Gensokyo, and there's like 26 different spaces on there.
00:53:48
Speaker
And each space has anywhere from one to three possible events that could happen, or the player could come up with their own event if they so desire. and characters have tags, properties that indicate a character's species or job or a location that they're particularly attached to or sometimes more of a narrative role that they fulfill.
00:54:12
Speaker
And if you think that any of your tags would apply to help you... yeah i I've been thinking about like what the closest like example to the The game board was it's it's kind of like Risk, but ah it has like other roles.
00:54:30
Speaker
Yeah, sort of. But yeah if if you think that any of your tags would help you with whatever task it is that you're trying to do, then that means that you will get an extra die for every relevant tag.
00:54:43
Speaker
And naturally, more dice is better. And so with this in mind, ah the made the the most critical element of character progression in the game is definitely the fact that at the end of a session, you can add a tag to your character.
00:55:03
Speaker
And with that in mind, there's a number of tags that already exist and already have some relevance to the game or whatnot. Every space on the board has a key tag where if the character has that tag, it doesn't matter what they're doing.
00:55:19
Speaker
That tag will always help them in that location. But also, players can just come up with any tag that they want whenever they're creating you know whenever they're whenever they're creating their new tag for their character.
00:55:33
Speaker
And so as I ran my campaign, the the tags that my players created, they started out pretty normal. ah But over time, things shifted a little bit. So my my players, there' there's three of them.
00:55:50
Speaker
One is playing as the main protagonist of the series, Remu Hakurai, the Hakurai Shrine Maiden. Another is playing as Patcholi Knowledge, a witch who is known as the Great Unmoving Library.
00:56:04
Speaker
And then my third player is playing as Nazrin, a mouse girl Buddhist who is known for detecting and obtaining treasure. And so whenever they were adding tags, ah they they started out pretty normal, but then everything changed at the end of the second session when my Nazrin player decided to add the Gyaru tag, which is a particular aesthetic that I will not be further elaborating upon. okay so we have time for that
00:56:37
Speaker
ah and the the This resulted in my Reimu player choosing to add MILF tag, which is acronym that cannot elaborate upon. the milf tag which ah is an acronym which is an igra that i cannot elaborate a pie Are we allowed to say those words on this podcast, Daryl?
00:56:59
Speaker
ah Generally, we don't. okay You can look it up yourself if you so desire. Google is kids. distance google is freak kids ah yeah just love that slow okay yes Yes, this this thing resulted in setting the tone for the rest of the tags that the players would add. Wait, wait, wait, wait, what?
00:57:25
Speaker
Yeah, so... Let her finish! Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. this this so the set that This set the tone for the players that... for for for the tags that the players would then add from there on out, as ah in each session they kind of just kept leaning in more and more into this element where the Nazrin player added Buxom, the Reimu player added Ushimimi, the Patcholi player added BBW, which is a big beautiful woman that is. I can i't at least say that acronym. And it if it all culminated in in a recent session where every single player eventually added ifv tag Yuri.
00:58:09
Speaker
they they they They all have the Yuri tag now. So if they think that engaging in Yuri will help them in a particular check... Then it will. And we'll figure whenever they roleplay that particular scene. And the thing is, is that because exploration and combat are almost entirely separate phases, and the niche tags, they don't really have any application in combat, ah most of the scenarios, well, ah a substantial number of the scenarios are social encounters in some way or in another.
00:58:46
Speaker
So applying these more socially focused tags to their characters does in fact help them have more dice for most different checks in the game.
00:58:59
Speaker
So it turns out that in Ginso Narrative Graph, min-maxing for Yuri is a viable tactic that actually has helped them succeed in most checks.
00:59:11
Speaker
Speedrun strats. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. This is still in a... Is this sort of attack or is this sort of check? No, no, no these are These are for, like like I said, whenever they're whenever you're running around the board, whenever you're finding clues, you're not attacking things.
00:59:29
Speaker
You're not fighting things. You're interacting with characters mostly or occasionally exploring an area or trying to find something. So in any scenario where they're interacting with a character...
00:59:41
Speaker
if they think that engaging in Yuri activities might help them do the thing, they can use the tag, which gives them an extra die, and also kind of directs how the scene is going to go. It's like going to seduce.
00:59:57
Speaker
So basically, they they've just been within the past... yeah when Within the past session, they've just been absolutely lezzing out with, like, every single character. And good for them! Indeed. it it has the... It's certainly changed the way that the narrative has gone, because plot that I wrote out involved the animal Yakuza from Hell trying to take over Gensokyo over a large period of time, over a number of sessions. And so I didn't have any particular expectations of any sort of romantic or sexual element. They they just did this on their own.
01:00:31
Speaker
they They just chose to do this entirely on their own. I didn't i didn't make this happen. See, for example, you let the characters or the players figure out what they want to do with their characters in that respect, and it works out beautifully.
01:00:43
Speaker
That said, the fact that they have continuously leaned into this dynamic, it has modified how things are going to go. in the like it It's at least modified to the final session of the campaign. Because I'm sure that's ever happened with for other reasons than one of our games, right? Yeah, yeah.
01:01:02
Speaker
so So yeah, sometimes sometimes your players will just do that. And you know what? I'm okay with it. It's been this past session where they've been lezzling out with everybody was probably the best session in the entire game so far. So it's all worked out. Did you tell your Nazrim player that I said they should add the slut tag so that they can actually like fully live out their slutty rat era?
01:01:24
Speaker
Well, she'll certainly hear this now. So we'll keep that in mind. don't know who you are, but do it. Commit to the bit. Do it. Do it. So yeah, ah you know, Nick, if if you want to be able to compete with me, you need to create a situation where we can, where all of us can do this, where we can min-max for Yuri.
01:01:44
Speaker
that's that's That's your next assignment. that that's how That's what the next session, that's what the next campaign needs to be. um Maybe a note, and i'll work on that myself. Write it down right here. that Because right now, Nick, now,
01:01:58
Speaker
right right now My players are lezzing out more than yours, and we need to fix that. We really do, honestly. president itan I will i double it. All right, all right. al alla i'll i'll keep I'll make you keep your word on that one.
01:02:14
Speaker
I think it's implied, and just you know out of respect for our GM, I i don't push it, but that Daz is doing that in Cyberpunk. Ah, I see. Well, I mean, if anyone's been paying attention, yeah, Daz has been doing that this whole goddamn time.
01:02:30
Speaker
Exactly. We need it to be explicit. It needs to be a gameplay mechanic. You need to walk around with a sign that says, hello, I am queer. Mm-hmm. I mean, apparently, well, I was about to say, apparently she doesn't need that sign, but, well, it sounds like she does. Mm-hmm. Because yeah what while I wouldn't be surprised at one or two things,
01:02:56
Speaker
you know people in the campaign you not not catching that. Well, you you have left the campaign, but before that, and you you didn't pick up on it. so That's my fault.
01:03:10
Speaker
I mean, that was more my character. Very self-conscious. Very antisocial. yeah We didn't suggest about that. So was my character, though. so My character just knows and doesn't care.
01:03:25
Speaker
But yes, ah in any case, that that was that was just a story that I wanted to tell. A bit of a... Very lovely. Yes, yes. the yeah the One of those RPG glory stories, if you will. very much though that that i also has that that That's part of the actual,
01:03:46
Speaker
but the good one I suppose yeah i didn't put a note about this in here, but figured we could briefly touch on it. If you can find a good venue outside of your group, too, that is friendly in your area. yeah we have We're kind of lucky. We have quite a few game stores in our area.
01:04:07
Speaker
And one of them is very LGBTQ plus friendly. yeah um Shout out to Common Ground Games in yeah in Dallas. i I'll be there next Friday on on Free RPG Day.
01:04:23
Speaker
They will be stop number two. This is smaller like a comic. There's one in yeah nearby that I can shout out to.
01:04:35
Speaker
Well, don't just say you could. Are you not going to shout them out after saying you could shout them out? Did we lose you again? I just checked if they are not in our business right now.
01:04:51
Speaker
Oh. Common Ground is very... Yeah, and Madness is improving their game. Nice. Again, I literally thought I i used to go there when I was a kid. just literally looked at him was like, don't know.
01:05:12
Speaker
Anything else that we wanted to touch on, though? don't think so. I'm very thankful to hearing these unique voices. like i'm a simple fella, and I just wanted to learn about What's going on?
01:05:29
Speaker
And I found great friends, great people, and I may not The whole understanding of their places, but I understand it. will stand with them.
01:05:41
Speaker
That's very easy, Nick. And you're a great friend, too. And you always have and a place here. If you ever need anything, you'll be here. Because you're your friends, your family. Thanks, Nick.
01:05:59
Speaker
Thank you, Nick. and And Betsy? Yeah? We we We now have recorded proof that he says that we have a place there. That's admissible in court, right?
01:06:11
Speaker
Yes. Perfect. That's not so how that works. You don't know that. that That's as close as I'm going to get to picking on him this episode, though, because he's had some very heartfelt moments, so I would feel bad. Mm-hmm.
01:06:28
Speaker
I would feel bad picking on him going into the into the exit of the show. This is true. Nick has been very open with us, and that's very good. but I do want to thank both of you for coming on, and you especially, Lauren, for suggesting the topic. It is a very very appropriate for the time of year topic.
01:06:48
Speaker
But it's also a an amazing topic. that so It's a pop topic that is very popular. is part of the whole experience of roleplaying and thank you for being part of it.
01:07:04
Speaker
Yeah. Hey, thanks for making space for us. You know, there there's tabletop groups. there' There's tabletop groups out there that started out to all as guys, and now it's just women, and there was no change in the the composition of the group. that so I was going to say, that just makes sense. honestly is it Honestly, RPGs have always been inclusive. It's been a group of individuals who were not necessarily...
01:07:34
Speaker
respected or nerds, it was weirdos, like, but it's everyone. People always talk about how there's no such thing as safe spaces, and, you know, in one respect that's true, but that's because we need to go out of our way to carve out our own spaces, and I think that's something that we as, like, you know, gamers working together have done.
01:07:53
Speaker
We've carved out our own space for ourselves. and then that's And that's why there was also demonized, is like, There's the satanic panic and all that.
01:08:06
Speaker
Ah, yes. Part of being RPG gamers is we're all inclusive. And it's like, even though I'm glad that I got to learn and knew know more about you guys.
01:08:19
Speaker
And one of my favorite things about all three of you They shenaned once, they'll shenan again. Beautiful. So you had thatre you didn't have the doomsday clip ready to go?
01:08:34
Speaker
We don't do the doomsday gag on this show. i'm just saying. We do the shenanigans. This might be considered picking on Nick. The other running gag we do on this show is squirrel. I just want to see something my brain.
01:08:52
Speaker
yeah i was i was sick. I was one out of my heart. I mean, y'all know how I am about rodents. Yes. Actually hamsters. Yes, particularly hamsters.
01:09:04
Speaker
But any rodent will do, truly. Well, thanks again for joining us. Here's the part of the show where where I get all scripty and say, head on over to howwerollgaming.com, your central hub for everything How We Roll Gaming.
01:09:21
Speaker
You'll find details on our current campaigns, our full podcast archive, plus quick links to our merch store and all our social channels so you can stay connected wherever you hang out online. If you've been following our socials, you've seen that for you the past week or two, there have been quite a few Pride-related posts on there. And in the merch store, by the time this episode drops, you'll have one week left for the 2026 Roll Proud collection of shirts. So...
01:09:53
Speaker
Head on out, get a shirt that'll help support the show. And if you're looking to support the show directly, the best way though through Patreon at patreon.com slash howwerollgaming. We've got membership tiers starting at just $2 a month with perks ranging from special recognition in our discount community to on-air credits and exclusive discounts in said merch store.
01:10:16
Speaker
And while you're supporting us, you can also help the show at no extra cost to you by using our DriveThru affiliate link when picking up your next tabletop goodies through DriveThruRPG. That link is in the show notes.
01:10:31
Speaker
And finally, if we want to hear from you, got questions you want us to tackle, topics you want you love to see or share a legendary rpc glory story of your own drop us a line at podcast how we roll gaming.com we read everything and your message I just end up as well.
01:11:00
Speaker
Tell them about how you are min-maxing for Yuri in your games. Yes. Yes. And B. Until next time. That's not Don't min-max. I hate that.
01:11:18
Speaker
Until next time, game proudly, play boldly, and never let anyone else write your character sheet. I'm Daryl. I'm Nick.
01:11:29
Speaker
I'm Lauren. I'm Betsy. And this is How We Roll.
01:11:37
Speaker
This episode of the How We Roll Gaming podcast is copyright 2026. How We Roll Gaming LLC. All games and associated intellectual properties are copyright their respective owners and How We Roll Gaming makes no claim of ownership by discussing them here.