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Ep 76: Let's talk Rush
82 Plays4 years ago
Rush is here! Let's talk about the game and it's reception so far. Also, it's award season so we give our opinions on what games have won which categories.
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Transcript
Introductions and Podcast Beginnings
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
This is episode 76.
00:00:10
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:12
Speaker
With me, my co-captain, as always.
00:00:14
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:15
Speaker
And Scott, we just wrapped up an awesome recording session with Triple Drain.
00:00:19
Speaker
And we figured, why not?
00:00:20
Speaker
It's early for us.
00:00:21
Speaker
It was like midnight for them.
00:00:23
Speaker
But we figured, why don't we jump on and kind of give some of our thoughts?
00:00:28
Speaker
This is bonus time.
00:00:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:30
Speaker
Actually, ironically, I didn't realize how early it was.
00:00:35
Speaker
I actually got up at five this morning.
00:00:38
Speaker
Well, you said you're mentally running on fumes like, well, he must have worked early this morning or something.
00:00:42
Speaker
Well, because I worked overnight, but I was very lucky in that unusual.
00:00:46
Speaker
But I I finished up early and I got to bed around 11 o'clock and then I didn't get a call to go back until five.
00:00:53
Speaker
So I actually got six hours.
00:00:54
Speaker
So actually, that's pretty good.
00:00:58
Speaker
So,
Reflections on Past Episodes and Feedback
00:00:59
Speaker
you know, it's been a while since we've been on and even just talking news or anything like that.
00:01:03
Speaker
Last episode, we did the Christmas episode, which, by the way, thank you for everyone that reached out.
00:01:09
Speaker
They said they appreciated the show.
00:01:11
Speaker
We had a really amazing response to it.
00:01:13
Speaker
I didn't realize we'd have so many people reaching out.
00:01:16
Speaker
Even people love the music.
00:01:17
Speaker
I thought that the punk Christmas music might not.
00:01:20
Speaker
Oh, it's funny.
00:01:22
Speaker
But there was a lot of people that loved it and even knew the songs.
00:01:25
Speaker
I was like, oh, wow, cool.
00:01:27
Speaker
And then we
Rumors and Developments in Pinball
00:01:28
Speaker
had, you know, we've heard the Rush rumor for a little bit now.
00:01:32
Speaker
And then we had an announcement.
00:01:35
Speaker
And now it looks like Rush is a reality.
00:01:38
Speaker
And we haven't even talked.
00:01:39
Speaker
We didn't even really talk rumors because last time we talked was like the beginning of December.
00:01:43
Speaker
Well, we've talked about it and we've speculated, I think appropriately, that it was in line for Borg.
00:01:52
Speaker
We didn't know.
00:01:53
Speaker
So
Purchasing Challenges and Recommendations
00:01:54
Speaker
I think that seemed to be more of confirmed, more than rumors.
00:01:59
Speaker
We didn't know anything about the art.
00:02:00
Speaker
We didn't know anything about the code and we didn't know anything about the layout.
00:02:04
Speaker
We I hadn't seen any leaked pictures or anything like that.
00:02:08
Speaker
And so it was it was fun to speculate.
00:02:10
Speaker
But yes, the the the owl is out of the bag.
00:02:15
Speaker
It definitely is rush.
00:02:16
Speaker
And, and if you want one of these rushes, um, you, you, and you're not on the list now in line.
00:02:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:23
Speaker
It is time.
00:02:24
Speaker
And we recommend Zach many and Nicole many with flipping out pinball.
00:02:28
Speaker
They do all of our stuff.
00:02:29
Speaker
We appreciate everything they do for us.
00:02:32
Speaker
You were having a heck of a time finding an Ellie, right?
00:02:34
Speaker
Scott, I was, I actually had resigned to just get a premium.
00:02:38
Speaker
Um, I had asked around a little bit and I wasn't super interested in, in buying an, um, a marked up one.
00:02:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:47
Speaker
So I, I felt that, you know, I could get a, uh, I could get a premium and I could make it good enough.
00:02:53
Speaker
Um, however, when I saw the reveal, I said, uh, I really want a Nelly if I can find one.
00:02:59
Speaker
And so I actually posted a little bit and I had asked Zach a while ago and he said, you know what, you're outside the list, but you know, there is a list.
00:03:08
Speaker
And so, and I said, okay, that's fine.
00:03:11
Speaker
I'll just get a premium and give me all the, all the mods and I'll do my best on it.
00:03:15
Speaker
And he messaged me.
00:03:17
Speaker
Apparently someone decided not to get theirs.
00:03:19
Speaker
And so I bought my LE from Zach and him called mini.
00:03:24
Speaker
And I also at flipping out pinball.
00:03:26
Speaker
And so money's off and I got my first insider kit today that I bought.
00:03:32
Speaker
I order from them too.
00:03:33
Speaker
So I can't figure out which game I want to put it on yet.
00:03:37
Speaker
So,
00:03:38
Speaker
That will be interesting to see.
00:03:40
Speaker
Maybe there's some suggestions out there.
00:03:43
Speaker
Zach has always been very good to us, and so we highly recommend him and Nicole for your pinball needs.
00:03:50
Speaker
And remember, if you want something, please let them know.
00:03:55
Speaker
Because there is a waiting list for most things.
00:04:00
Speaker
They can get almost anything you want, but just realize that it's in your best interest to tell them what you want.
00:04:08
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:09
Speaker
Well, and I was listening to Final Round today, and Jeff and Martin had made an excellent point that I guess I really hadn't...
00:04:17
Speaker
processed yet but you know a lot of people complain about wait times in the pinball industry it's not just the pinball industry uh you know they were talking about like yeah everything if it has a computer chip in it you're waiting for someone said they uh bruce nightingale and his wife were waiting on like a bed frame because it had a special feature to it
00:04:36
Speaker
We went to buy a bed.
00:04:37
Speaker
We went to buy a bed for my daughter today and we were at Costco and we asked them, they said, well, this is the time furniture.
00:04:48
Speaker
So just in case you're wondering, Costco has seasons just like anything else.
00:04:51
Speaker
And January is the furniture season in Costco.
00:04:55
Speaker
Uh, so we, I, I actually forgot that, but I went there and, and, uh, so we were looking at the mattresses and they said, actually, we usually have them here and you can try them out, but because of the shipping shortages.
00:05:07
Speaker
So yeah, the shipping things are, it's a real thing.
00:05:10
Speaker
And I'm kind of bummed.
00:05:12
Speaker
I, uh, so my, uh, my golden girls, um, hobby, uh,
00:05:16
Speaker
is buying ornaments like Christmas tree ornaments from Hallmark.
00:05:22
Speaker
And they're usually super nerdy.
00:05:23
Speaker
So I got some Star Wars ones and Harry Potter ones, but I ordered two and they didn't come in.
00:05:31
Speaker
So I don't even know if I'm going to get those.
00:05:32
Speaker
So we'll see.
00:05:34
Speaker
You'll get them in July when you want it for Christmas again.
00:05:37
Speaker
Oh, it's fine.
00:05:37
Speaker
Actually, we didn't even, because my wife's shoulder surgery, we didn't ever decorate the tree.
00:05:44
Speaker
We put it up, but we didn't actually decorate it.
00:05:47
Speaker
Anyway.
00:05:47
Speaker
So I got to ask you, it was announced last Friday.
00:05:50
Speaker
It was teaser trailer time, which we all know that Stern always puts out some kind of small teaser.
00:05:55
Speaker
Tuesday.
00:05:56
Speaker
It was a theme.
00:05:57
Speaker
Wasn't it Tuesday?
00:05:58
Speaker
No, it was Friday last week where they showed just the owl video.
00:06:01
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:06:02
Speaker
The owl going through the snow and then rush.
00:06:04
Speaker
Boom, right?
00:06:05
Speaker
And then Tuesday was the actual reveal of the game.
00:06:10
Speaker
It's funny because I've been so...
00:06:14
Speaker
on the fence of how this was going to be received.
00:06:16
Speaker
We've talked about the winter curse, you know, January time, winter time, first quarter always seems to have a rough time moving units.
00:06:25
Speaker
Uh, so I didn't know how this would go rush itself.
00:06:28
Speaker
Uh, they are fantastic musicians.
00:06:30
Speaker
I will give them all the credit.
00:06:32
Speaker
I was joking with you yesterday that, uh, Neil Peart, uh, God rest his soul passed away a couple of years ago, uh, was the Josh sharp of drumming because he's a fantastic drummer.
00:06:45
Speaker
But he's always in second place.
00:06:47
Speaker
Jason bottom.
00:06:49
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:06:50
Speaker
Or Buddy Rich.
00:06:51
Speaker
And so, yeah.
00:06:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:53
Speaker
But Buddy Rich, you could actually, you could actually go with Buddy Rich because Neil Peart did a tribute album called Burning for Buddy.
00:07:01
Speaker
Yep.
00:07:02
Speaker
And so he actually is, yeah, he has the ability to do that.
00:07:07
Speaker
But yeah, anyway.
00:07:08
Speaker
But being great musicians doesn't always translate into a great pinball machine.
00:07:12
Speaker
Right.
00:07:13
Speaker
And so that's always my concern.
00:07:16
Speaker
I mean, Led Zeppelin is arguably one of the best bands that have ever existed.
00:07:20
Speaker
And we know how that pinball machine turned out.
00:07:22
Speaker
Not for the lack of trying.
00:07:23
Speaker
You know, after everything's come to light, it sounds like it was more of a licensing issue and more jumping through hoops than it was anything else at that point.
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, and it's challenging, too, because it depends on how involved the band is or lack of involvement or how cooperative or how uncooperative.
00:07:41
Speaker
And by the way, we don't have any huge inside information on Zeppelin, but it does seem to be that they weren't.
00:07:50
Speaker
I guess the take home message is it wasn't as open to them as you would like to have for a creative pin.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:58
Speaker
Right.
00:07:59
Speaker
Well, and I made this point on triple drain, you know, it's, it's easier to make a pin and put more depth into it.
00:08:06
Speaker
When you have like with rush, you had Geddy Lee, you had Alex Lifeman on board.
00:08:11
Speaker
They were there in the recording room.
00:08:13
Speaker
They have all the rights.
00:08:14
Speaker
They're on music.
00:08:16
Speaker
it was not hard for them to say do this do that they checked off where in led zeppelin's case you have people that passed away you have a state you have four five six hoops to jump through and it makes it a lot more rough you're spending more time jumping through hoops than you are working on a game i would speculate too that i bet the license was more expensive
00:08:38
Speaker
And I, I'm just, I'm just guessing because I'm Led Zeppelin.
00:08:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:42
Speaker
I love rush, but Led Zeppelin is a different level.
00:08:45
Speaker
It's a different level of, of popularity and ultimately popularity means more expensive.
00:08:51
Speaker
I mean, we all know that the Beatles license was the most expensive they'd had to that point.
00:08:55
Speaker
Yep.
00:08:56
Speaker
So to wrap this back, um, I was nervous that rush wasn't going to be received well and, and being, uh,
00:09:02
Speaker
There's a lot of chatter on Facebook.
00:09:04
Speaker
There's a lot of chatter on Pinside.
00:09:06
Speaker
The squeaky wheel seems to always direct the course of the way the cart's going, right?
00:09:11
Speaker
And it's making me nervous that people are being loud.
00:09:16
Speaker
It seems like this thing has come out and people are very pleased.
00:09:20
Speaker
Well, most people.
00:09:21
Speaker
You look on Facebook and Pinside, not so much.
00:09:24
Speaker
But there's got to be something right when this game is pretty much sold out their first couple runs.
00:09:29
Speaker
And we're looking three, four runs down the road already on Rush.
00:09:33
Speaker
Yes.
00:09:33
Speaker
And the Ellie's were pretty much gone before they was even announced.
00:09:37
Speaker
They were gone.
00:09:38
Speaker
So basically, sadly, the K, it's a blessing and a curse, right?
00:09:44
Speaker
Because you want something that you're interested in to be popular.
00:09:48
Speaker
You want it to be succeeding.
00:09:51
Speaker
I mean, you don't want to be like,
00:09:53
Speaker
Um, okay.
00:09:54
Speaker
I've, I've said it before, uh, watch, if you want to know a documentary that's super interesting and kind of depressing simultaneously, watch the way of the puck because it is air hockey and it's these super passionate people.
00:10:11
Speaker
Just think of tournament pinball, but equivalent passion for air hockey and,
00:10:18
Speaker
Air hockey is, I'm sorry, it is dead.
00:10:21
Speaker
Like there there's, it's not the same level of excitement that pinball has.
00:10:26
Speaker
And I watched it at the same time, back to back.
00:10:28
Speaker
I watched that and I watched special when Litton, it both had the same vibe of this is a dead thing.
00:10:34
Speaker
And I basically just bought an air hockey table and a pinball machine.
00:10:37
Speaker
So it was just weird.
00:10:38
Speaker
But you want that, like, you want whatever you're passionate about to be that successful, because that drives the companies investing money into the product.
00:10:53
Speaker
That drives them to actually elevate the product and make it better and increase the build of material.
00:11:00
Speaker
Yes, the cost goes up, but you're getting a better product.
00:11:02
Speaker
And so...
00:11:03
Speaker
If you want an L.E., then I would definitely contact your distributor and kind of find out some rumors out there.
00:11:10
Speaker
If you think a game's out there, they can't confirm or deny that a game is coming out, but they certainly have interested lists.
00:11:20
Speaker
So contact your distributor, but yes.
00:11:22
Speaker
So if you wanted one, you can still find, we all know that if you want to pay the right amount of money, you can get about whatever you want.
00:11:29
Speaker
So you can still get it, but if you want it for a reasonable price, contact your distributor, contact Zach and Nicole and say that you want to, you're interested in this theme if it ever comes out.
00:11:40
Speaker
Yep.
00:11:41
Speaker
Well, and we did an episode, I want to say a couple months back, and we called it the secret sauce.
00:11:47
Speaker
And we talked about how theme was the secret sauce to a pinball machine.
00:11:51
Speaker
And I've decided to backtrack on that.
00:11:53
Speaker
Theme is very, very important.
00:11:55
Speaker
It's not the only thing.
00:11:56
Speaker
It's theme integration.
00:11:57
Speaker
Yes.
00:11:57
Speaker
And looking at...
00:12:03
Speaker
I think it was a brilliant move by Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson in the early negotiations with making a rush pinball machine.
00:12:13
Speaker
They said, we want to bring in Ed Robertson because he knows pinball.
00:12:18
Speaker
And if you haven't checked it out yet, go on Stern Insider and listen to the Ed Robertson interview.
00:12:25
Speaker
They talked about...
00:12:28
Speaker
He got a call from Jody.
00:12:31
Speaker
Jody Dinkberg.
00:12:33
Speaker
And Jody was like, they won't make this unless if you're helping direct.
00:12:37
Speaker
And listening to some of his direction going off about song selection, being a pinball machine, and just some of how they were able to integrate it, it makes Rush that much more desirable.
00:12:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:52
Speaker
And I think that is for anything now.
00:12:55
Speaker
I'm looking at, we just saw the reveal, not even the reveal, the stream.
00:13:01
Speaker
Well, sorry.
00:13:02
Speaker
I'm talking about queen.
00:13:03
Speaker
We saw queen.
00:13:05
Speaker
And we don't even know how it's going to play.
00:13:08
Speaker
We haven't seen code.
00:13:09
Speaker
Yeah, but it's not, it didn't, it didn't feel good.
00:13:12
Speaker
Like when you, when you looked at it, it looks like someone who knows very little about pinball put it together.
00:13:18
Speaker
Yes, it feels like it fell short.
00:13:21
Speaker
We're getting to a point in pinball where these are very complex machines.
00:13:26
Speaker
They're not even what they were five years ago.
00:13:29
Speaker
The code is insane on these, and they're almost becoming a love letter to whatever theme it is.
00:13:37
Speaker
And do you want your love letter to be a Rush pinball machine the way that they have went in and made this...
00:13:42
Speaker
just oozing with everything rush you know we joked about the time machine being a washing machine and you're like dude they had a washing machine on the stage behind getty as a joke and so it's theme appropriate for it to look like a washing machine and so it's funny because it's little details like that i'd rather have that
00:14:07
Speaker
I hate picking on Led Zeppelin because they're such a good band and I enjoy their stuff.
00:14:11
Speaker
But I feel like Led Zeppelin was a very cookie cutter.
00:14:16
Speaker
And so I would rather want that.
00:14:18
Speaker
The code is still good.
00:14:19
Speaker
The code is still very good.
00:14:22
Speaker
And the light show is very good.
00:14:24
Speaker
And I think the theme integration is actually quite good in it.
00:14:30
Speaker
But there wasn't enough to take it to the next level.
00:14:33
Speaker
It's missing that heart.
00:14:35
Speaker
It, it, yeah, it, wow.
00:14:38
Speaker
And, and, and we love Steve, Steve.
00:14:40
Speaker
I mean, Steve's come on the, but it did feel, I'm not blaming it on the designer.
00:14:46
Speaker
You're kind of, you're kind of backed into a, you're backed into a corner sometimes by licensing constraints.
00:14:53
Speaker
And we've talked about this before when, when something comes out and you're like, why did they choose it?
00:14:58
Speaker
They probably didn't choose that.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:00
Speaker
Like that was probably what the licensor told them to do.
00:15:03
Speaker
And so,
00:15:05
Speaker
I they were definitely more more guided with style limitations on Led Zeppelin than other machines.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:15
Speaker
So, and I would argue the same thing with Star Wars, right?
00:15:18
Speaker
I mean, we all know Steve can make a great game and Star Wars, I think has the same, the same criticism that it doesn't feel like it feels like it hits all of the, um, it hits the marks, but it has the personality of a Star Wars lunchbox.
00:15:40
Speaker
Well, I think it's also that suffers from, it's a stop and go game stuck in a flow body.
00:15:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:50
Speaker
So it seemed a little bit like a disconnect.
00:15:53
Speaker
But you know what?
00:15:54
Speaker
To be fair, every designer will have the game that doesn't connect as well as they want it to.
00:16:01
Speaker
Yeah, but I guess this is the case in point.
00:16:04
Speaker
Look at Godzilla.
00:16:05
Speaker
Was Godzilla a desirable theme?
00:16:07
Speaker
How many people did you talk to before Godzilla?
00:16:09
Speaker
No, I'll take you back even more.
00:16:11
Speaker
Okay, you take me back as far as you want.
00:16:14
Speaker
Iron Maiden.
00:16:14
Speaker
I mean, Kate, my the funniest line before all of these pins came out, the funniest line I ever heard was from Jeff Rivera from the pinball podcast.
00:16:24
Speaker
I was hanging out with him and or or no, I think he said on his podcast is he said Iron Maiden sounds like Rush got drunk and decided to play metal.
00:16:37
Speaker
And he hates both Iron Maiden and Rush.
00:16:40
Speaker
And he wanted Led Zeppelin with all of his heart.
00:16:44
Speaker
And so you cannot tell me that Iron Maiden, the secret sauce was the theme.
00:16:51
Speaker
It was not.
00:16:52
Speaker
It was not.
00:16:53
Speaker
But I think that the theme can help elevate it to the next level, though.
00:17:01
Speaker
Iron Maiden stood on its own because of Keith Elwin and his excellent design.
00:17:08
Speaker
But for the most part, you can look at Lord of the Rings and a very similar game of Sopranos.
00:17:16
Speaker
But Sopranos is nowhere near as popular as Lord of the Rings because it doesn't have this, the merging of the two.
00:17:26
Speaker
No, I agree.
00:17:27
Speaker
And so I think that's what we're coming down to now is, is pinball companies need to realize these games are love letters to the things that they are building them for.
00:17:36
Speaker
And you, you either want that gushing with fan appreciation and little juicy nuggets here and there, instead of just artwork on a play field that you can, you can revolve through some songs and stuff like that.
00:17:50
Speaker
So I,
00:17:51
Speaker
I will, I'll share a little bit that my friend who's, he's actually one of the, he's the general manager of a Ford store here.
00:18:00
Speaker
And I talked to him a little bit about selling cars.
00:18:04
Speaker
And he said, one thing I try to tell my agents is,
00:18:10
Speaker
If you feel like you're fooling the customer into buying something that you either don't believe in, or if you feel like you're spinning it and so they're getting, you know, they're getting a bad ish deal.
00:18:26
Speaker
Like they can tell, like, you don't think they can tell, but they can tell they there's something about it that doesn't feel right.
00:18:33
Speaker
Right.
00:18:34
Speaker
And it doesn't hit on every level.
00:18:36
Speaker
And I would argue when you get a machine that is like that, you, there's something about it.
00:18:42
Speaker
You're not exactly sure what it is, but it just doesn't fire on all cylinders.
00:18:48
Speaker
What almost feels like it's went from professional to amateur.
00:18:51
Speaker
I mean, perfect example, like at Thunderbirds.
00:18:55
Speaker
I would say soulless though.
00:18:56
Speaker
It doesn't have that soul thing that makes you connect with it on an emotional level.
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:03
Speaker
So let's talk about, so Rush comes out, people start seeing this for the first time, and I'm kind of baffled at this point of the comparisons.
00:19:14
Speaker
Borg's been around for 20 plus years, correct?
00:19:16
Speaker
He's been around since the 90s.
00:19:17
Speaker
A long time, yeah.
00:19:18
Speaker
So he's, actually it's been 30 years.
00:19:19
Speaker
Yeah, no, Borg's basically been in pinball forever.
00:19:25
Speaker
Yes, he's he's one of the elder statesman's now of Stern.
00:19:29
Speaker
It's funny because you look at Borg and he's been around for 30 years.
00:19:32
Speaker
And the next seniority is what Keith Elwin?
00:19:34
Speaker
And he has four games.
00:19:35
Speaker
Yes.
00:19:37
Speaker
So even going back to, you know, going back to the data East games.
00:19:41
Speaker
So Borg has in in pinball database.
00:19:45
Speaker
He has credits back to 1992.
00:19:50
Speaker
Yep.
00:19:50
Speaker
So I, I, I, yeah, so, so definitely not the, the lead, but he's, he's been around, he's been.
00:19:58
Speaker
Yes.
00:20:00
Speaker
And, uh, like I was saying this on triple train, I don't feel like Borg's ever been known for easy shooting games.
00:20:05
Speaker
It's always been kind of a little on the rougher side.
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah, I'm looking at every single game right here, and all of them are butt kickers.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:16
Speaker
When you think Borg, what do you think of?
00:20:18
Speaker
Munster's the only outlier.
00:20:19
Speaker
But when you think of Borg, you think of two games.
00:20:23
Speaker
You think of Iron Man, and you think of Metallica.
00:20:27
Speaker
Well, okay, three games.
00:20:28
Speaker
I'd say Iron Man, Metallica, and yeah.
00:20:33
Speaker
And those are the ones, well, okay, Walking Dead.
00:20:36
Speaker
I guess you can, any of these games that you're saying out, they are not like, it's not a fun ride.
00:20:44
Speaker
And you have to strap yourself in.
00:20:46
Speaker
You're earning it.
00:20:47
Speaker
You're earning every shot.
00:20:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:50
Speaker
So...
00:20:52
Speaker
So thinking of Borg, when this comes out, you owned an X-Men.
00:20:58
Speaker
And I played your X-Men.
00:21:00
Speaker
So I recognize this right off the bat.
00:21:02
Speaker
I'm like, this is X-Men, which is fine.
00:21:03
Speaker
It's not a big deal.
00:21:04
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:21:05
Speaker
I would say it's similar to X-Men.
00:21:07
Speaker
It definitely like the top down.
00:21:10
Speaker
You can definitely the pop bumpers are in the same spot.
00:21:13
Speaker
The scoop is in a similar spot.
00:21:15
Speaker
You have a shot up the middle, which would be similar to the Magneto shot.
00:21:21
Speaker
You have the upper flipper shot.
00:21:23
Speaker
So there's a lot that you will recognize on this.
00:21:27
Speaker
So people start liking this to Iron Maiden.
00:21:31
Speaker
I know you have a different point to this, but why?
00:21:33
Speaker
No, not Iron Maiden.
00:21:34
Speaker
This is like, if you're going to say anything, it is similar to X-Men.
00:21:38
Speaker
Why Iron Maiden?
00:21:39
Speaker
You know what?
00:21:40
Speaker
I might not have agreed with this at first, but David Fix, I now understand why.
00:21:44
Speaker
People shouldn't have a comment until five years into the hobby because Iron Maiden is not...
00:21:50
Speaker
Close to rush.
00:21:52
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:53
Speaker
I'm going to tell you why you're wrong on this.
00:21:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:55
Speaker
You tell me why I'm wrong.
00:21:56
Speaker
Again, I'm not, I am not saying it is the same as Iron Maiden.
00:22:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:02
Speaker
I'm saying the elements, the, so a few things which make people say, well, I do kind of feel a little bit of Iron Maiden.
00:22:13
Speaker
I would say first and foremost, we're just going to call it the washing machine ramp.
00:22:18
Speaker
The elevation of the washing machine ramp, which is very similar to the premium.
00:22:24
Speaker
And so there is that.
00:22:25
Speaker
Now, I also know that they have the shot through the bumpers.
00:22:29
Speaker
that Borg has, but he did that with X-Men 2, and so that's not unheard of.
00:22:35
Speaker
That was the gambit shot.
00:22:37
Speaker
But I can see how people would be like, well, there's the shot through the bumpers on the left side.
00:22:42
Speaker
There's that.
00:22:43
Speaker
And there's kind of a quick horseshoe type ramp.
00:22:46
Speaker
It's not in the same location.
00:22:48
Speaker
So I, I, I certainly am not defending that as much, but I can understand vaguely why they said it.
00:22:57
Speaker
And there is the diverter on the premium that Iron Maiden has that goes up and down.
00:23:04
Speaker
And there is now it goes to a different area.
00:23:06
Speaker
The diverter, like the, the diverter went actually underneath the play field in Iron Maiden, but there,
00:23:14
Speaker
uh, the, in the Borg one, there is a diverter that allows it to go back to the, um, the second, or I guess the middle right in lane or the closest, the innermost right in lane.
00:23:26
Speaker
And so while I am totally not defending that because it obviously has more similarities to X-Men, I totally get why someone would say, well, I can kind of see some Iron Maiden.
00:23:39
Speaker
So there's some elements in there, right?
00:23:40
Speaker
true but you could say you take that same equation you'd be like well there's some elements that are similar to i don't know adam's family there's a shot through the pops with an upper flipper that goes to a ramp with it and a side shot well as we know it's a fan layout with three flippers exactly didn't someone say that so yes uh
00:24:02
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, no, no.
00:24:04
Speaker
OK, moving on.
00:24:05
Speaker
But yeah, OK.
00:24:06
Speaker
So again, I'm not defending it, but I can at least say why.
00:24:10
Speaker
OK, so your next question, I immediately looked at that and said, that looks a lot like X-Men.
00:24:17
Speaker
So what was my response when I saw that?
00:24:21
Speaker
Wasn't it like, I hope it's not a clunk fest like X-Men was?
00:24:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:25
Speaker
Like I was nervous because for some reason, and I know there are some people who love X-Men, but, and I think it's still one of the prettiest games I've ever owned.
00:24:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:36
Speaker
It's good on you.
00:24:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:38
Speaker
Oh yeah, man.
00:24:39
Speaker
The music was terrible on that.
00:24:41
Speaker
But for some reason, I just had a hard time connecting and enjoying that game because it just felt like I could never personally dial in those shots.
00:24:51
Speaker
Well, and what's made me funny is every time I came over to your house and we talk X-Men, like, I don't understand how anyone could own anything but the Magneto one.
00:24:59
Speaker
Like, how does Wolverine controlling the magnet balls make any sense compared to Magneto controlling them?
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah, I don't.
00:25:10
Speaker
It just seems kind of crazy that there was ever, like, that should have been the only Ellie that,
00:25:15
Speaker
But, um, and, and really, I still think it's one of the prettiest games that you will ever see.
00:25:22
Speaker
And honestly, let's be honest.
00:25:24
Speaker
If you, if you've been doing this for three decades and we're comparing it to a game he made 10 years ago.
00:25:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:32
Speaker
It's 10 years ago.
00:25:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:33
Speaker
And so what, in my opinion, what does it really, at this point, what does it matter?
00:25:37
Speaker
Well, they're not going to be the same at all.
00:25:40
Speaker
Okay, I would say that the one super positive part of this is that
00:25:47
Speaker
I mean, designers aren't stupid.
00:25:50
Speaker
They know when a game is well received and when, and they are, they are more intimately aware of the flaws of the game than you are, even as the most passionate fan.
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:02
Speaker
And so if you had the ability to retool a layout that didn't quite make it, don't you think you would make it a lot better?
00:26:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:14
Speaker
Well, case in point, look at Deadpool.
00:26:17
Speaker
Is it the shink shot?
00:26:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's the katana ramp shot.
00:26:23
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:26:23
Speaker
No, it's okay.
00:26:25
Speaker
What are they calling that?
00:26:27
Speaker
But compared to, it was originally done on the first Avengers.
00:26:30
Speaker
The Avengers.
00:26:30
Speaker
And that Black Widow shot was terrible.
00:26:33
Speaker
It was hard and it was not fun.
00:26:35
Speaker
And now it's come to one.
00:26:37
Speaker
That shot now is very fun on Deadpool because it's like, it's nerve wracking because it's like, oh, but it feels so satisfying every time you hit it now.
00:26:48
Speaker
That is a classic example of taking something that didn't work and making it work.
00:26:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:53
Speaker
And I guarantee and they even had like fixes on the they had fixes on Black Widow to fix it.
00:27:04
Speaker
So, yeah, it still just didn't.
00:27:07
Speaker
It still just didn't connect.
00:27:09
Speaker
So, yeah, I'm trying to find.
00:27:13
Speaker
Sorry, I you're fine.
00:27:15
Speaker
You, uh, you distracted me.
00:27:17
Speaker
I'm trying to find the name of that.
00:27:18
Speaker
Dang.
00:27:19
Speaker
Dang you, Josh.
00:27:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:21
Speaker
Straight to heck.
00:27:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:25
Speaker
Well, no.
00:27:25
Speaker
And while you're looking that up, I mean, yeah.
00:27:28
Speaker
I will still defend it.
00:27:30
Speaker
I mean, it's a good layout.
00:27:32
Speaker
I still enjoy X-Men.
00:27:34
Speaker
Or reverse Tron, whatever floats your boat.
00:27:37
Speaker
It was basically a reverse Tron, yeah.
00:27:39
Speaker
And so it would make sense that it would be considered like, hey, this will be a great game.
00:27:45
Speaker
And it just didn't hit it.
00:27:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:49
Speaker
But I do, I think the Rush layout does look good.
00:27:53
Speaker
Let's go around the stream looked great.
00:27:55
Speaker
I'm glad that Timmy and Ray Day and Jack were the ones streaming it.
00:28:00
Speaker
They did an awesome job.
00:28:02
Speaker
Like I said, you do have to take these streams with a grain of salt because these are top, top tier players.
00:28:08
Speaker
Some of the best in the world or the best in the world.
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, but man, that looked so smooth, didn't it?
00:28:12
Speaker
Yes, it looked butter smooth.
00:28:15
Speaker
And like I said, it's probably going to be one of those things you're going to have to play some games on it.
00:28:19
Speaker
You're going to have to get your hands on it and you can't judge it by the first,
00:28:23
Speaker
five games would be my my suggestion you can go the jeff rivera route don't judge it fully until you've put your name on the high score and i'm i am an avid follower of that um i played shrek for the first time uh yeah two days ago i wanted to like shrek and i just i could not get into that either it just felt like it was so samey so
00:28:46
Speaker
Well, and I, I got my high score on the second game and I, I, we were talking about this in the group chat on slam tilts.
00:28:53
Speaker
Cause there's a lot of people in there and, and, and I asked him, like, is there anything else I could have seen?
00:28:57
Speaker
And there really wasn't like, there were like more modes.
00:28:59
Speaker
Nope.
00:29:00
Speaker
You got it.
00:29:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:01
Speaker
They're like, there's a super duper wizard mode that no one ever gets to.
00:29:05
Speaker
So like far, far away.
00:29:06
Speaker
So don't worry about that.
00:29:07
Speaker
Raymond said that.
00:29:08
Speaker
And if the world's number one player said that it's impossible to get to, I, I, you, you have to take the glass off to get, to get that.
00:29:15
Speaker
So.
00:29:16
Speaker
If he says that you can take it to the bank, that is certified gold right there.
00:29:21
Speaker
But my point being is, is, is a lot of people want to judge this game already based off of theme and a layout that they think they know.
00:29:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:31
Speaker
However, okay.
00:29:32
Speaker
In fairness, what has the judgment been?
00:29:36
Speaker
That it looks just like how I made it.
00:29:39
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:29:40
Speaker
No, no, I'm saying what, but they have looked at it though.
00:29:43
Speaker
And the orders are going like through the roof.
00:29:47
Speaker
That's what makes me chuckle.
00:29:47
Speaker
Like people are ordering it.
00:29:48
Speaker
How many people have complained on Facebook about this?
00:29:51
Speaker
Like another, another dad rock band.
00:29:54
Speaker
And it's like.
00:29:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:56
Speaker
Here's, here's one thing.
00:29:57
Speaker
And this is, uh, I will give Josh Sharp credit for this.
00:30:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:02
Speaker
One time in a, in a group chat, I had mentioned about my frustration with Stern, uh, toppers, you know, I, I buy toppers, right?
00:30:11
Speaker
I like toppers.
00:30:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:13
Speaker
And so I said, why don't they just make a billion of them and sell them for $350 or $450?
00:30:21
Speaker
And you'll still make more money on it by selling with volume than you will.
00:30:27
Speaker
You'll get a smaller margin, but you sell it with volume.
00:30:32
Speaker
And he said, that's great.
00:30:34
Speaker
The only thing you do not have is any data to back it up.
00:30:40
Speaker
And he said they do market analysis.
00:30:44
Speaker
So they know these things.
00:30:45
Speaker
And so there's a reason why they're doing it the way they do it.
00:30:48
Speaker
And so there's a reason why these pins with these themes are coming out is because they've done the study and they know that they're going to sell.
00:30:58
Speaker
Yep.
00:31:00
Speaker
So you may, you may love a K-pop, which I think is a band from South Korea or something.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:08
Speaker
But yeah, you may love them, but if they put out a K-pop, they've probably done the market analysis to realize they're not going to sell the same amount that they will by making a Led Zeppelin, by making a Rush, by making a Van Halen pin, by, you know, whatever.
00:31:24
Speaker
Well, and let's, let's be honest.
00:31:25
Speaker
Like, I hope I don't offend anyone with this comment because
00:31:28
Speaker
But the people that own these or that are going for Rush, that are going for Led Zeppelin are usually seasoned professionals.
00:31:36
Speaker
They're people that are later on in their lives.
00:31:37
Speaker
Kids are out of the house.
00:31:39
Speaker
They have a little more in their bank account.
00:31:41
Speaker
They're not going to make... I graduated in 05.
00:31:45
Speaker
I've been out of high school for 15 years.
00:31:47
Speaker
I'm in my mid-30s.
00:31:48
Speaker
I've got kids at home.
00:31:50
Speaker
Let's be honest.
00:31:51
Speaker
I am not the demographic to be going for because how many kids or how many people at my age have...
00:31:58
Speaker
extra cash they're willing to throw out a pinball machine for let's let's say one of the bands from the 2000s let's say they they were coming out with a a fallout read him creed no let's do fallout boy because that's more my generation okay it's still a bigger band uh how many fallout boys do you think they would honestly sell and i know there's people are gonna be screaming it from the rooftops on facebook and pin side saying oh that would be a fantastic theme but honestly
00:32:25
Speaker
You're not the people that have the money right now.
00:32:29
Speaker
Don't care about fallout boy.
00:32:32
Speaker
I don't.
00:32:32
Speaker
I think I know though.
00:32:33
Speaker
They have the, I'm on fire.
00:32:35
Speaker
That song.
00:32:36
Speaker
Yep.
00:32:36
Speaker
That's the song.
00:32:37
Speaker
And then they also did the song I know.
00:32:39
Speaker
And by the way, I have zero interest.
00:32:41
Speaker
And for reference, I graduated 30 years ago this year.
00:32:46
Speaker
See?
00:32:46
Speaker
And so you've got to understand that Stern is first and foremost a business.
00:32:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:55
Speaker
And you think that you understand marketing and all this stuff, but you don't understand that Stern has been in this alive for 20 plus years and they've done this market analysis.
00:33:08
Speaker
I'm not defending their decision to make a rust pinball machine.
00:33:10
Speaker
I am.
00:33:11
Speaker
I'm not saying...
00:33:12
Speaker
I'm not saying they're selling.
00:33:14
Speaker
Well, no, I agree.
00:33:15
Speaker
But what I'm saying is, is like, I would love to see a fallout boy pinball machine.
00:33:20
Speaker
I would love to see a some 41 pinball machine, but you're, it's not going to happen right now.
00:33:26
Speaker
Not until at least 20 years from now, we're, we're finally talking about having a nineties band pinball machine.
00:33:32
Speaker
Nineties guys.
00:33:33
Speaker
That was 30 years ago.
00:33:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:36
Speaker
30 plus years ago.
00:33:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:38
Speaker
So, so here now we've, we've gone over,
00:33:41
Speaker
Rush deserves to be there and we are, we're excited for it.
00:33:45
Speaker
So you're excited for it.
00:33:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:48
Speaker
I am excited for it.
00:33:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:49
Speaker
But you're at least excited enough for it.
00:33:53
Speaker
No.
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:53
Speaker
I'll put it this way.
00:33:55
Speaker
I'm excited that there is so much love to this game.
00:34:00
Speaker
There's so much put into this game that comes from a person that knows rush.
00:34:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:05
Speaker
And by the way, hit me up.
00:34:07
Speaker
Cause I got now.
00:34:08
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:34:08
Speaker
So I got an L E and now I just need all the other translates.
00:34:12
Speaker
So I need the pro and the premium.
00:34:13
Speaker
So let me know.
00:34:15
Speaker
Um, okay.
00:34:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:17
Speaker
So what is your take on the look?
00:34:21
Speaker
The, so let's just talk about the art.
00:34:23
Speaker
What do you think about the art?
00:34:25
Speaker
I like the artwork.
00:34:27
Speaker
Um,
00:34:28
Speaker
The only place that I could see that they fell short, I felt like they did fall a little short with the faces in the middle of the play field.
00:34:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:37
Speaker
And the reason being, I don't know the band from the 70s.
00:34:40
Speaker
I know Geddy Lee's classic look of the round, purplish-tinted glasses, which they kind of did.
00:34:47
Speaker
His hair's...
00:34:49
Speaker
not as long.
00:34:49
Speaker
Like you look at Alex Lifeson, his hair short.
00:34:52
Speaker
Now they went with more of a classic seventies look, which is great.
00:34:55
Speaker
But honestly, Neil Peart in the middle looks more like Lemmy from motorhead.
00:35:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:01
Speaker
However, ironically, he did look very similar to that around 2112.
00:35:06
Speaker
So this is very, the only thing that's different on this, Alex and Neil are very 2112-esque.
00:35:17
Speaker
Getty with the soul patch, he didn't have the soul patch until probably the 90s.
00:35:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:23
Speaker
So, but does it change your idea at all?
00:35:27
Speaker
when um this was the artist chimed in on this and said this is actually we went through with rush and this is what they wanted yeah and i think that's awesome if that's what they wanted yeah and so so that was that was their uh take and so yeah it was um yeah so uh michael barnard
00:35:51
Speaker
I'm hoping I'm saying that correctly.
00:35:53
Speaker
But yeah, so he's the one who said, actually, Rush had a lot of input in this.
00:35:57
Speaker
And they said, well, actually do this a little bit.
00:35:58
Speaker
So this is the look that Rush wanted to present.
00:36:02
Speaker
I want to point out something I really like Michael did.
00:36:05
Speaker
I don't know if it's because he did it or if it was the direction that he was made.
00:36:09
Speaker
One of the back glasses, I want to say it's the premium.
00:36:12
Speaker
It has like the owl and then it has like that.
00:36:16
Speaker
So the owl is front and center in the pro.
00:36:19
Speaker
K is it that one?
00:36:21
Speaker
There's one where it's almost like they mixed and matched like three different albums.
00:36:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:24
Speaker
So the, and the premium, you have the owl flying off to the right, you have running up the middle, which is a, an homage to moving pictures.
00:36:33
Speaker
They're their biggest album.
00:36:35
Speaker
And then you have, man, I, I know that.
00:36:38
Speaker
I know that, uh,
00:36:40
Speaker
I know that Ed said this, what these are, but it's like a totem thing.
00:36:45
Speaker
So it's running.
00:36:46
Speaker
So anyway, yes, that's the premium.
00:36:48
Speaker
But it's like taking three different albums and meshing them well together with a different background from a different album as well.
00:36:58
Speaker
When I did my research on Rush Live,
00:37:03
Speaker
One of their things is they had like really intricate intros.
00:37:07
Speaker
If you looked at like their most recent concert before Neil passed away, it was like 2018 in Brazil or somewhere like that.
00:37:13
Speaker
And it was seriously like a five-minute montage.
00:37:15
Speaker
Maybe it wasn't that long.
00:37:16
Speaker
Two-minute montage.
00:37:17
Speaker
of like all their album artwork alive.
00:37:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:20
Speaker
Like it was moving, it was doing different things.
00:37:23
Speaker
It was goofy.
00:37:23
Speaker
It was, and I felt like that encapsulated, like this artwork did a fantastic job at it.
00:37:28
Speaker
And I love the owl.
00:37:29
Speaker
I think the owl just looks amazing on this artwork.
00:37:33
Speaker
They did a good job.
00:37:34
Speaker
So I wrote very similar to to Iron Maiden, where the the art direction from Iron Maiden was an artist named Derek Riggs.
00:37:47
Speaker
OK.
00:37:47
Speaker
And we all know that Zombie Yeti did it.
00:37:50
Speaker
However, Zombie Yeti was able to stay true to Derek Riggs.
00:37:56
Speaker
And a very similar thing, but take his own take on it.
00:37:59
Speaker
And so it actually fit very well with the imagery of Iron Maiden.
00:38:05
Speaker
I would say that this is probably a little more surprising because it's more of a comic book-y feel.
00:38:12
Speaker
And even hardcore Rush fans are probably not going to be as familiar with the comic book version of them.
00:38:19
Speaker
But I think they did a great job of theme appropriate things.
00:38:25
Speaker
I feel like it was very well balanced.
00:38:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:28
Speaker
I'm happy with the art.
00:38:30
Speaker
I know there's people have complained that really a ton on it.
00:38:33
Speaker
I don't know why.
00:38:34
Speaker
I don't know.
00:38:35
Speaker
It's one of those, it's first world problems, right?
00:38:37
Speaker
You're right.
00:38:39
Speaker
Why did the artwork look like this?
00:38:41
Speaker
However, in fairness,
00:38:45
Speaker
the attention to this art versus the attention to the art on Led Zeppelin.
00:38:50
Speaker
Yes.
00:38:51
Speaker
Like you can, by far miles and leaps and bounds.
00:38:55
Speaker
You can tell this was an investment, a labor of love.
00:38:58
Speaker
Yep.
00:38:58
Speaker
So you may or may not like that style, but you can tell it definitely was a labor of love.
00:39:03
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:04
Speaker
And that's part of, because like I said, I love love letters to whatever theme you're talking about.
00:39:09
Speaker
Like I said, I can't tell you of any Rush album I've sat down from beginning to finish and actually finished it.
00:39:15
Speaker
But I can usually pick out a good handful of their songs.
00:39:19
Speaker
I can tell you from knowing the top scraping of Rush's surface, this is definitely hitting that love letter on all cylinders.
00:39:30
Speaker
The one thing that will also reassure people is with Iron Maiden, the challenge was is that I definitely know the difference between all the songs.
00:39:42
Speaker
But I also understand if someone who is not a fan of Iron Maiden can say,
00:39:49
Speaker
the music just drove me crazy.
00:39:50
Speaker
I mean, that was Martin Robbins.
00:39:51
Speaker
He, he sold his Iron Maiden Ellie because he's like, after a while, the music just drove him crazy because it is that high tempo.
00:39:59
Speaker
It's going a hundred miles an hour.
00:40:02
Speaker
And it, every song has a very similar vibe.
00:40:05
Speaker
Yep.
00:40:07
Speaker
You will be surprised by how nuanced and how different rush sounds.
00:40:12
Speaker
Yep.
00:40:13
Speaker
Because they are so prog rock, progressive rock.
00:40:17
Speaker
It tends to be more of,
00:40:20
Speaker
I don't like an orchestral approach or something that is not as it's not basic.
00:40:27
Speaker
And, and really most rock bands are, you know, it's, it's the stereotype, right?
00:40:33
Speaker
Sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
00:40:35
Speaker
And if you watch behind the light of stage, uh,
00:40:39
Speaker
It was Paul Stanley or Gene Simmons because Rush opened for a kiss a lot.
00:40:44
Speaker
And he said at the end of the show, you know, there we were backstage.
00:40:49
Speaker
We were back at the hotel and we had, you know, your typical after show party with, you know, girls and all that kind of stuff.
00:40:57
Speaker
And he said, and Rush were in their rooms reading books.
00:41:01
Speaker
And so it's just a different vibe, like whether or not you agree with it, it's a different vibe and they, their lyrics reflect that.
00:41:09
Speaker
Uh, I actually sent to my brother, uh, if you want to know how amazing the lyrics are, which by the way, we're written by the drummer, right?
00:41:17
Speaker
Um, just go to YouTube and hit rush songs.
00:41:21
Speaker
And there's actually a rush one with the lyrics there and you can read the lyrics along with it.
00:41:26
Speaker
And you can say, wow, that there's way more to that band, the lyrics anyway.
00:41:31
Speaker
than I originally thought.
00:41:33
Speaker
Yep.
00:41:34
Speaker
So honestly, all in all, I think that rush, I like it.
00:41:38
Speaker
I think, I think they did a great job.
00:41:41
Speaker
Um, I'm not, I don't know.
00:41:43
Speaker
I guess I'm easy to please though.
00:41:44
Speaker
Any new pinball is good pinball, right?
00:41:46
Speaker
Like, okay.
00:41:47
Speaker
But like, what do you think of the play?
00:41:49
Speaker
Like, I love the modifications he did to the, the X-Men theme.
00:41:54
Speaker
I like the diverter path up on top that he did.
00:42:01
Speaker
I do like the washing machine.
00:42:02
Speaker
That is a cool... The time machine, whatever you want to call it.
00:42:04
Speaker
That has the ramp that raises up and down.
00:42:06
Speaker
The double scoop.
00:42:08
Speaker
Double scoop was interesting.
00:42:10
Speaker
I like the left orbit, too.
00:42:12
Speaker
If you hold up the right upper flipper, if you hit that clean and it comes all the way around, it puts it right into the scoop for you so you can lock a ball.
00:42:20
Speaker
I do like...
00:42:21
Speaker
I feel like that's one hard part with Borg is like with Ninja Turtles is you have every shot you have to earn.
00:42:28
Speaker
I like a couple give me shots.
00:42:30
Speaker
I think that's why everyone likes L1 games is because there are hard shots you feel like you have to earn.
00:42:35
Speaker
But there are some give me shots like the T-Rex shot.
00:42:37
Speaker
There's some shot or the spinner shot, you know.
00:42:41
Speaker
So you have a ball lock on the left side.
00:42:44
Speaker
You have, so you have two wire forms and you also have two vacuum formed like pathways.
00:42:53
Speaker
And so I, I'm really curious cause we, we do have a, I've talked with Borg a little bit online and when things calm down a little bit, he's going to come on.
00:43:02
Speaker
And I want to ask him specifically about,
00:43:05
Speaker
When you're choosing ramp, because there is a method to the madness.
00:43:08
Speaker
There's a reason why he specifically chose a vacuum form ramp for two of them and wire form for the other two.
00:43:15
Speaker
And I don't know if it's speed because aesthetically you'd think, well, maybe you just do the same one, but there's, there's a reason for that.
00:43:22
Speaker
And so I'm curious to find out what it is.
00:43:25
Speaker
I feel like this project, it came out on all cylinders and looks great.
00:43:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:29
Speaker
So I want to play.
00:43:30
Speaker
I'm glad you got the LE.
00:43:32
Speaker
This gives me an excuse to come to your house here in like a month.
00:43:35
Speaker
And it's, it makes me chuckle though, that you're going to get rush before you even see your Godzilla.
00:43:40
Speaker
Yeah, or a Mando, by the way.
00:43:43
Speaker
You're still waiting for Mando?
00:43:45
Speaker
Still waiting for Mando.
00:43:46
Speaker
Wow.
00:43:46
Speaker
So you're guaranteed a rush before almost all the 2021 releases.
00:43:53
Speaker
However, again, people, if you want to get a game and you really are dying to get it, then definitely VLE is the way to get it first.
00:44:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:05
Speaker
Okay, so let's talk about code, though.
00:44:06
Speaker
His last game...
00:44:11
Speaker
um was what was that who tim's no no no sorry so borg's last game yes so it was turtles yes and uh so dwight is great he has a different approach to rule sets he does yep and uh some people really connect with it other people uh find them challenging um so this is i think you're putting it very nicely
00:44:36
Speaker
Well, okay, but I legitimately all rule sets have different styles, right?
00:44:42
Speaker
And it's like an art, right?
00:44:43
Speaker
Everybody has their own designer, everybody has their own coder, everybody has their own art package, you know, so they could put their dream things down.
00:44:51
Speaker
So Bork has worked with a lot of different designers.
00:44:56
Speaker
And so this is interesting because this is the first time he's working with Tim Sexton and Raymond Davidson.
00:45:07
Speaker
And Tim's the lead.
00:45:08
Speaker
But obviously having the world's number one player and having Tim, who is a highly competitive pinball player himself, who comes through it from the tournament approach,
00:45:21
Speaker
How does that make you feel about the game?
00:45:23
Speaker
It makes me excited and nervous at the same time.
00:45:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:45:27
Speaker
Tell me more.
00:45:28
Speaker
The reason being is I'm excited because I feel like we are now starting to gravitate towards this top tier players making code is what is making code amazing right now.
00:45:37
Speaker
It is not hard to argue that Elwin is making fantastic games right now.
00:45:41
Speaker
And it's a lot of it's due to the code direction he goes.
00:45:45
Speaker
um tim did great on led zeppelin i enjoyed the code there and he did great on black knight i thought that was done wonderfully and so it makes me excited because i feel like there's gonna be a lot of depth but that's the problem borg is brutal so how do you explore depth of code when you've got brutal games like borg and that's where we bring in when we were watching the stream it seemed multi-ball heavy right
00:46:11
Speaker
And so I don't know if this is just because it's early code or what's going on here.
00:46:15
Speaker
And they might balance it back a little bit.
00:46:17
Speaker
But I think that's the best way to explore this game is being able to do it through multiball.
00:46:23
Speaker
It probably will be, yes.
00:46:24
Speaker
And I loved that it was a fast game.
00:46:29
Speaker
And I am not the guy who likes to trap and shoot.
00:46:33
Speaker
I'm not that guy.
00:46:34
Speaker
I will do it for games when I need to, but especially on a rock game, you do not want to trap and shoot rock game.
00:46:43
Speaker
You want to keep that pedal to the metal.
00:46:45
Speaker
And so I was really happy and surprised that they were playing and having, I would say, decent ball time.
00:46:53
Speaker
So I guarantee, at least at first, I'm going to close the out lanes out and I'm just going to explore this thing.
00:46:59
Speaker
Yep.
00:46:59
Speaker
And then hopefully as I get better, then I'll start ratcheting that back on the game.
00:47:06
Speaker
Um, yeah, it's the multi-ball.
00:47:09
Speaker
It'll be interesting to see how that's utilized.
00:47:11
Speaker
However, you can definitely change that because like in, um,
00:47:17
Speaker
In tournament Metallica games, a lot of them have modified it.
00:47:22
Speaker
And so, you know, you don't necessarily just have to do one thing or, you know, they may crank it up a little harder or, you know, things like that.
00:47:32
Speaker
And so you can still make this mean for elite players.
00:47:37
Speaker
So I'm not too worried, but I like that scalable.
00:47:40
Speaker
I like that I will, as an above average home player, I'm not a tournament player.
00:47:47
Speaker
I just don't have time.
00:47:49
Speaker
I like that I will still be able to play this game.
00:47:52
Speaker
And I think that that resonates with other people.
00:47:57
Speaker
And the reason I'm saying this is because Rush is a good band.
00:48:02
Speaker
But with the reception that we're seeing right now, I don't know if it's part of just the resurgence in pinball.
00:48:10
Speaker
But you can't tell me that every single person that's ordered this game so far is a diehard Rush fan or all from Canada.
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:48:17
Speaker
All the Mountie police or something.
00:48:22
Speaker
Yeah, I'm actually surprised.
00:48:25
Speaker
I'm pleasantly surprised that it doesn't seem to be just hardcore Rush fans.
00:48:34
Speaker
Because I was concerned.
00:48:36
Speaker
And we talked about this before.
00:48:38
Speaker
Would it make a good theme?
00:48:39
Speaker
I'm like, I don't know.
00:48:40
Speaker
And I attribute that again.
00:48:42
Speaker
Listen to Ed Robertson as interview with Nate Shivers.
00:48:48
Speaker
They did a really good job of he, Alex, and Getty all together
00:48:54
Speaker
negotiated the, the song list that it was like, you know, and he, he called him, he's like, give me your bangers.
00:49:02
Speaker
Like you, you hit that and everybody immediately recognizes the song and they are excited to hear it and play it.
00:49:10
Speaker
And they chose really great songs for a rock pinball machine.
00:49:16
Speaker
Well, and it wasn't only like great songs that recognize it was like upbeat songs as well, because we don't want stairway to heaven essentially.
00:49:24
Speaker
Well, and that, yeah, that would be so hard.
00:49:26
Speaker
But they they chose, you know, Rush has 19 studio albums to go from.
00:49:31
Speaker
So they were able to.
00:49:33
Speaker
And I and the amazing thing to me is he said that he, Geddy and Alex had 15 of the same songs out of 20 on their list.
00:49:44
Speaker
And that's how you know, I, these are, okay.
00:49:47
Speaker
Ladies and gentlemen, these are professional musicians.
00:49:51
Speaker
Yes.
00:49:51
Speaker
They know great songs and Ed knows great pinball.
00:49:55
Speaker
So absolutely.
00:49:57
Speaker
He is going to help guide that.
00:49:59
Speaker
Yep.
00:50:00
Speaker
And having Ed be.
00:50:02
Speaker
You know, the lead to make sure that in Rush said, we don't know anything about pinball, but you're the pinball guy.
00:50:07
Speaker
So we want a good machine.
00:50:09
Speaker
And that's when you know you're going to get something special in the secret sauce because they are more interested in having a good pinball machine than just having another product with their label on it.
00:50:23
Speaker
I'm right there with you.
00:50:23
Speaker
I was very skeptical on a rush pinball machine, but they have definitely proved me wrong this week.
00:50:33
Speaker
I am very impressed with the product that they've put out.
00:50:35
Speaker
They appeased any fear that I possibly could have had.
00:50:43
Speaker
And absolutely.
00:50:45
Speaker
And having Borg do rush and he knows rush.
00:50:51
Speaker
And so I, I actually was messaging him back and forth and there is a great, um, uh, interview about rush in rolling stones.
00:51:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:03
Speaker
So, uh, go and just Google that and look it up.
00:51:07
Speaker
And there is stuff in there that I didn't know about.
00:51:11
Speaker
And so it's a great read.
00:51:13
Speaker
Go ahead if you want to know more about Rush.
00:51:15
Speaker
That's a great read on that.
00:51:17
Speaker
So I think we've talked plenty about Rush.
00:51:19
Speaker
We're 51 minutes in, plus we talked Rush on Triple Drain.
00:51:22
Speaker
Yeah, for 90 minutes on Triple Drain.
00:51:23
Speaker
So go listen to Triple Drain.
00:51:25
Speaker
I do feel like we covered different aspects.
00:51:28
Speaker
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
00:51:29
Speaker
No.
00:51:30
Speaker
So, uh, if you haven't listened to the triple drain episode, don't think it's just us spouting the same stuff over again.
00:51:35
Speaker
Actually, I would say they're very different.
00:51:37
Speaker
Like what we talked about here is very different.
00:51:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:40
Speaker
And so, um, one other thing I wanted to hit, uh, it is award season and we, I know that we've always joked that we are all for the awards.
00:51:48
Speaker
Like Scott said last year, that's all we do this for, right?
00:51:53
Speaker
Is the money guns and the glory and the awards.
00:51:57
Speaker
And, uh,
00:51:58
Speaker
Honestly, we're joking, but we do appreciate those that felt like we are one of their favorite podcasts that they went and pre-voted for us.
00:52:07
Speaker
And we announced it on our podcast.
00:52:09
Speaker
Like, yeah, we're in the pre-vote.
00:52:10
Speaker
If you want to do it, go for it.
00:52:12
Speaker
But we didn't post it on Facebook or anything, if I remember correctly.
00:52:16
Speaker
I may have had my grandmother ask if she could vote.
00:52:19
Speaker
We're definitely supportive of what Jeff does at this Week in Pinball.
00:52:22
Speaker
I think he has some excellent deep dives.
00:52:26
Speaker
So that's actually where I go when I want to read it.
00:52:29
Speaker
And so... I was very impressed with his Rush deep dive.
00:52:33
Speaker
He did a great job.
00:52:34
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
00:52:34
Speaker
And so, okay, we are not underplaying it.
00:52:39
Speaker
I think it's a very worthwhile thing.
00:52:41
Speaker
We also don't want to be accused of
00:52:44
Speaker
of
00:52:47
Speaker
inappropriately influencing the voting, I guess that's correct.
00:52:50
Speaker
So we want to make sure I have the same attitude as like Martin and Jeff over at final round.
00:52:55
Speaker
I think it's one of those things like we really appreciate the support and everything, but we, we do this content because we enjoy doing this.
00:53:03
Speaker
And because you guys like to listen, interact with us, we don't do it because it's twippy time and we have fun.
00:53:08
Speaker
We need to vote legitimately.
00:53:10
Speaker
This is, this is one of the best parts of the week for me.
00:53:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:14
Speaker
i agree and uh i thank you thank you for support i was surprised that we made made it's because we got slap saved last year and yeah um and and shout out to final round to jeff and martin for not making it i know i know they don't give a crap but uh
00:53:32
Speaker
Yeah, between that.
00:53:33
Speaker
Okay, but come on.
00:53:34
Speaker
It feels good.
00:53:37
Speaker
There's a little validation for what you do.
00:53:38
Speaker
It's awesome that Pinball Profile made it.
00:53:40
Speaker
And the reason being is Jeff has been doing this for how many years now?
00:53:44
Speaker
And he has shined lights on aspects of this hobby and this industry that don't get lights shown on very often at all.
00:53:55
Speaker
And so it's very cool to listen to a pinball profile that is timeless and go back and find an interview that just, I didn't know anything about this person.
00:54:04
Speaker
Jeff was talking about them two years ago and you go and get a deep dive on this person.
00:54:09
Speaker
You know, it just, it shines a light on, on this wonderful hobby.
00:54:14
Speaker
Yes.
00:54:14
Speaker
I'll just put that away.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:17
Speaker
Um, but no, thank you.
00:54:19
Speaker
Thank you, uh, for voting us.
00:54:21
Speaker
Um,
00:54:22
Speaker
we're definitely not, we know we won't be the number one, which is fine.
00:54:25
Speaker
It's not a big deal.
00:54:26
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:54:27
Speaker
We may be go vote, go vote, go vote.
00:54:29
Speaker
Uh, no, no.
00:54:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:30
Speaker
But, um, but legitimately get your plumber to vote.
00:54:33
Speaker
Oh, wait, I am a plumber.
00:54:34
Speaker
Nevermind.
00:54:36
Speaker
Get your, get your anesthesiologist to vote.
00:54:38
Speaker
Get your plumber to vote.
00:54:39
Speaker
Get your HVAC guy to vote.
00:54:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:42
Speaker
Scott, while you're sitting on your phone during my surgery, I need you to go to, I'll do it between cases.
00:54:47
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:54:48
Speaker
Um, yeah.
00:54:49
Speaker
So anyway, it's, uh,
00:54:53
Speaker
But it's good.
00:54:54
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:54:56
Speaker
So what are you thinking?
00:54:57
Speaker
Do you want to go through some of these things?
00:55:00
Speaker
Let's be honest.
00:55:02
Speaker
I've already said this to other people.
00:55:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:05
Speaker
2021 was not a fantastic year for pinball.
00:55:08
Speaker
2020 was actually pretty impressive.
00:55:11
Speaker
But 2021, it's coming down to Godzilla and Mandalorian, in my opinion.
00:55:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:16
Speaker
However, I think that I was surprised because there are aspects that I'm like, you know what?
00:55:22
Speaker
I didn't really consider that.
00:55:23
Speaker
And so so let's just we're not going to go down every category.
00:55:27
Speaker
OK.
00:55:28
Speaker
But what I do want to do is, first off, I want to talk about.
00:55:34
Speaker
you know, we, and we talked about this in, in this week in pinball and the, the Twippy.
00:55:37
Speaker
So, um, theme.
00:55:40
Speaker
So of all the themes that just came out, which one where you're like, yes, that theme needs to be done.
00:55:48
Speaker
Out of 2021.
00:55:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:51
Speaker
Out of last year, yes.
00:55:52
Speaker
Yes.
00:55:55
Speaker
The theme that I was shocked and actually was impressed.
00:55:58
Speaker
Okay, surprise theme that they did.
00:56:01
Speaker
Okay, we can do that.
00:56:02
Speaker
Surprise theme they did and the one that you're like, yes, absolutely.
00:56:06
Speaker
Like, that is a perfect theme.
00:56:09
Speaker
Well, it was a surprise when I heard it.
00:56:10
Speaker
I said, yes, that's the one they needed to do was Mandalorian.
00:56:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:14
Speaker
I was actually surprised.
00:56:18
Speaker
But then again, I'm not a huge horror movie fan, so Halloween doesn't do it for me.
00:56:23
Speaker
And I don't know much Japanese film.
00:56:25
Speaker
I knew who Ultraman was, but I can't tell you.
00:56:28
Speaker
I have no idea.
00:56:29
Speaker
Led Zeppelin's a good band, but that pin does nothing for me.
00:56:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:35
Speaker
Just theme alone, though.
00:56:37
Speaker
That's what I'm saying.
00:56:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:38
Speaker
Sorry.
00:56:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:39
Speaker
So theme-wise, Led Zeppelin doesn't hit it for me.
00:56:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:44
Speaker
I would say my one and two would be Mandalorian and Led Zeppelin coming up because Led Zeppelin, great.
00:56:52
Speaker
Everybody's listened to Led Zeppelin.
00:56:54
Speaker
But Mandalorian, it was one of those themes that it's kind of like Guardians of the Galaxy where...
00:57:00
Speaker
you're like, that's actually a, a current thing that so many people right now are talking about.
00:57:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:08
Speaker
And that's challenging because Stern has been, well, pinball has been burned by thinking a theme is going to be great.
00:57:15
Speaker
And then just, you know, the Johnny mnemonic thing, right.
00:57:18
Speaker
Where they think it's going to be great.
00:57:20
Speaker
So they make a pinball machine and then they look at it and they're like, Ooh, so.
00:57:24
Speaker
As Gomez is leaving the theater.
00:57:26
Speaker
He's like, can we get out of this?
00:57:27
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:57:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:29
Speaker
And so, yeah, I think that for theme alone, Mandalorian, hands down.
00:57:35
Speaker
Yes, that is the right thing.
00:57:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:57:38
Speaker
So, and this is hard because of lockdown, I haven't gotten out to play everything, but I've been able to watch streams on it and things like that.
00:57:47
Speaker
So, like animations and display.
00:57:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:57:52
Speaker
So what do you think?
00:57:53
Speaker
I still think Godzilla takes this one, even though Mandalorian, the clips are good, but it's a lot of like two, three seconds of it.
00:58:01
Speaker
And then it's like a freeze frame with a color change.
00:58:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:58:04
Speaker
I feel like I enjoy the Godzilla ones more because they're cheesy and they just, they fit the theme.
00:58:10
Speaker
And watching when you're hitting that inner loop and it's coming back and you're getting that dude's head to spin.
00:58:16
Speaker
That's fantastic.
00:58:18
Speaker
Those animations, I feel like, are top notch over everything else that's come out.
00:58:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:58:25
Speaker
I may be an outlier on this one.
00:58:28
Speaker
I think Sorcerer's Apprentice.
00:58:31
Speaker
No, I can see that.
00:58:33
Speaker
It's I, it's a different degree.
00:58:36
Speaker
And I understand why people may think may have issues with P3.
00:58:42
Speaker
I understand it is a different version of pinball.
00:58:46
Speaker
It is not your standard version of pinball, but being able to integrate a ball with the animations on the play field and on the screen, it, it,
00:58:57
Speaker
It's challenging.
00:58:58
Speaker
And I remember playing that with you at expo and I thought, wow, they like, this is really clever and fun.
00:59:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:07
Speaker
I agree.
00:59:07
Speaker
It's, I, I don't, it's not going to be for everyone, but I, I felt the animations and display.
00:59:15
Speaker
I gave it to P3.
00:59:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:17
Speaker
No, I, yeah, I can see it.
00:59:19
Speaker
I will not argue with you on that one.
00:59:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:23
Speaker
So a light show.
00:59:25
Speaker
I'm still Godzilla.
00:59:26
Speaker
I think there's a lot of cool lights.
00:59:27
Speaker
Really?
00:59:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:27
Speaker
I put Led Zeppelin.
00:59:29
Speaker
I put the- And I can see that.
00:59:30
Speaker
I put the interact, like the interact.
00:59:32
Speaker
And obviously this is the next step with what JJP did with Guns N' Roses, right?
00:59:41
Speaker
I know it was kind of simultaneously developed.
00:59:43
Speaker
I'm sure that the word got out and they figured out ways of doing the chicken or the egg, right?
00:59:49
Speaker
but um i'm man if you don't have those light bars on led zeppelin it is a completely different game yeah true so that that's why i chose that one so and like i said i'm not going to argue that that one as well but i just i feel like uh it's just something about godzilla it's the spinning of the mecha godzilla the light show there it's just i feel like there's a lot of integration that makes that game come to life okay i and i love godzilla too right
01:00:19
Speaker
I struggle with toys and gimmicks.
01:00:21
Speaker
Because I'm not really... Hands down with Godzilla.
01:00:24
Speaker
Like, really, what else do you have?
01:00:25
Speaker
You have a spinner that comes out of the playfield?
01:00:27
Speaker
What, Mandalorian?
01:00:28
Speaker
You've got the rotating playfield?
01:00:32
Speaker
Godzilla, you've got an up-and-down skyscraper that changes... Okay, yeah, I'm just saying, like, toys and gimmicks, I'm not even sure what... Like, what does that mean?
01:00:40
Speaker
Like, when people say best toy in a game, I'm always like, what are you, like...
01:00:46
Speaker
What are you talking about?
01:00:47
Speaker
Like, what is a toy?
01:00:48
Speaker
Like, is it something that's unique to it?
01:00:50
Speaker
Like guide me, Josh, help me.
01:00:53
Speaker
Dave fixed me.
01:00:54
Speaker
Tell me what I should.
01:00:55
Speaker
I'm missing here.
01:00:56
Speaker
So when I look at, I've got, I've got four games in front of me.
01:01:00
Speaker
I've got Avengers.
01:01:01
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:02
Speaker
If I were to look at a toy on there, it's almost, it would be the Avengers tower.
01:01:07
Speaker
Something that is aesthetically very close to like the theme.
01:01:11
Speaker
Visually identifiable.
01:01:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:13
Speaker
You know, I'm going to, I'm going to summarize it like this.
01:01:15
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:16
Speaker
A toy or a gimmick is something plucked directly from the theme and
01:01:21
Speaker
and somehow then inserted into the game and made to interact with the game.
01:01:27
Speaker
Like Ninja Turtles, Turtle Van.
01:01:29
Speaker
That was plucked directly.
01:01:30
Speaker
Theme specific.
01:01:32
Speaker
The Turtle Van was plucked directly from the TV series and it was put in the game and the balls divert through it.
01:01:38
Speaker
Look at the T-Rex on Jurassic Park is plucked directly from the movie.
01:01:42
Speaker
It's something that...
01:01:43
Speaker
is visually identifiable to that and then world cup soccer you've got a goalie that moves back and forth and you got a big soccer ball that spins so toys and gimmicks to me are something that you would for that theme is plucked directly out of the real world or out of that out of that movie the book whatever it may be and it is placed directly on the play field and when you look at the play field you go hey that's baby yoda or you go hey uh um
01:02:10
Speaker
I don't know why I keep thinking Led Zeppelin.
01:02:12
Speaker
Like with Mando, you've got the Razorcrest.
01:02:18
Speaker
When I think toys and gimmicks, that's what I think of as that.
01:02:22
Speaker
Okay.
01:02:22
Speaker
So now we talked about theme.
01:02:24
Speaker
Let's talk about theme integration.
01:02:28
Speaker
Godzilla.
01:02:29
Speaker
Okay.
01:02:30
Speaker
So, okay.
01:02:31
Speaker
Tell me Godzilla versus Mandalorian then.
01:02:33
Speaker
Because that would be my one and two.
01:02:37
Speaker
So with Godzilla, I feel like the theme integration is a lot better because you have a destroyable skyscraper.
01:02:45
Speaker
You have the Mechagodzilla that grabs the ball.
01:02:49
Speaker
You have a destroying bridge.
01:02:53
Speaker
You have that Magna grab.
01:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, that Newton ball thing, which is awesome.
01:02:57
Speaker
Yes.
01:02:58
Speaker
I mean, heck, look at when you drain and you get the shoot again, it's Godzilla kicking his little boy back into the place.
01:03:06
Speaker
You know, and it's so funny because it is, it is comical.
01:03:09
Speaker
I mean, it's these, these, these dudes in rubber suits and absolutely you're right.
01:03:13
Speaker
And the tag team clips are fantastic.
01:03:16
Speaker
They're just, everything drips and uses.
01:03:18
Speaker
And don't get me wrong.
01:03:18
Speaker
Mandalorian's theme is integrated fairly well with the episodes, with the clips and stuff like that.
01:03:25
Speaker
Honestly, I don't feel like the upper play field.
01:03:30
Speaker
I feel like it takes away from the game more than when it adds to it.
01:03:33
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:03:34
Speaker
And that's why I think that Godzilla is better at theme integration than Mandalorian.
01:03:39
Speaker
Okay.
01:03:40
Speaker
All right.
01:03:41
Speaker
Best music and sound effects.
01:03:43
Speaker
Do you go with the give me here?
01:03:45
Speaker
Like I feel the same with carry.
01:03:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:48
Speaker
Like music, sound effects.
01:03:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:52
Speaker
Okay.
01:03:53
Speaker
I'm going to play the music takes priority card here.
01:03:59
Speaker
So the Led Zeppelin does.
01:04:00
Speaker
And I'll put Led Zeppelin.
01:04:02
Speaker
See, that's the problem.
01:04:03
Speaker
I feel the same as Carrie Hardy.
01:04:04
Speaker
Like this music was never made for pinball.
01:04:06
Speaker
It was made for mass consumption.
01:04:08
Speaker
Okay.
01:04:08
Speaker
But, but guns and roses won last year.
01:04:12
Speaker
And it's basically the guns and roses entire catalog.
01:04:15
Speaker
I agree.
01:04:16
Speaker
But the, it,
01:04:18
Speaker
I can see it going both ways.
01:04:19
Speaker
I can see it being like, yes, it is integrated into the game.
01:04:22
Speaker
It is music.
01:04:23
Speaker
It wasn't necessarily made for the pinball machine, but then I feel bad for people like Jerry Thompson that spends all this time integrating and, and putting original music into a pinball machine and making it work.
01:04:34
Speaker
And it's, well, okay.
01:04:35
Speaker
We both met Jerry and Jerry is awesome.
01:04:37
Speaker
And okay.
01:04:38
Speaker
I don't think Jerry would have any problem with me saying that Led Zeppelin music is iconic.
01:04:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:46
Speaker
And so I'm going to take the icon over his stuff, even though love you, Jerry.
01:04:50
Speaker
Good stuff.
01:04:52
Speaker
So I would not be shocked if it's Led Zeppelin.
01:04:55
Speaker
Okay.
01:04:57
Speaker
I still, I do like, and yeah, it just, I'm going to leave it at that.
01:05:02
Speaker
Cause it's going to sound very contradictory if I, if I go into what I was going to say.
01:05:07
Speaker
So I'm just going to, I'm just going to leave it at that.
01:05:09
Speaker
Okay.
01:05:10
Speaker
All right.
01:05:10
Speaker
Best call outs.
01:05:13
Speaker
I thought the,
01:05:16
Speaker
Led Zeppelin.
01:05:17
Speaker
No, I think Godzilla is all multiball.
01:05:20
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:20
Speaker
It's the best British man I've ever heard of.
01:05:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:23
Speaker
It's like a Simpsons character.
01:05:25
Speaker
Okay.
01:05:26
Speaker
I, I call, I said Mandalorian.
01:05:28
Speaker
Really?
01:05:28
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:29
Speaker
I, I think that Apollo Creed doing the, doing the call outs.
01:05:34
Speaker
I mean, he's, he's a great actor and he was perfect for that role.
01:05:38
Speaker
So I, I'm actually going to call that.
01:05:40
Speaker
I think you're going to say Godzilla.
01:05:42
Speaker
I think Godzilla and it's because of the, the, the reporter.
01:05:46
Speaker
Good golly, Miss Molly.
01:05:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:49
Speaker
Oh no, no.
01:05:50
Speaker
It's, it's appropriate level campy because it's self-aware.
01:05:55
Speaker
I totally get it.
01:05:57
Speaker
Um, but I, I'm just going to say I'll take a Carl Weathers.
01:06:01
Speaker
And I don't blame you there.
01:06:02
Speaker
I don't blame you there.
01:06:03
Speaker
Sorry.
01:06:04
Speaker
Maybe I guess I like Godzilla.
01:06:06
Speaker
I can't wait for mine to show up.
01:06:07
Speaker
I know, right?
01:06:10
Speaker
I need new pinball, gosh dang it.
01:06:11
Speaker
It's been too long.
01:06:13
Speaker
Seriously, you and Keith Elwin and Godzilla, it's the Archer meme.
01:06:17
Speaker
And if you don't know what it is, just Google it.
01:06:20
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:21
Speaker
Okay, best rules.
01:06:22
Speaker
I think we're both in agreement on this one.
01:06:24
Speaker
Godzilla?
01:06:25
Speaker
Godzilla, yeah.
01:06:26
Speaker
Or Led Zeppelin?
01:06:27
Speaker
Let's go.
01:06:28
Speaker
You know what, Kay?
01:06:29
Speaker
I actually like the rules of Led Zeppelin.
01:06:31
Speaker
No, I'm not saying I don't.
01:06:32
Speaker
I'm just saying that Godzilla definitely is the farthest creator.
01:06:34
Speaker
The problem is Godzilla, because the entire theme works better than it gets the nod.
01:06:43
Speaker
But I actually put Led Zeppelin as second because I thought it did such a good job.
01:06:48
Speaker
And I put Mandalorian as third because I really...
01:06:52
Speaker
Stern does have the best rule sets out there.
01:06:56
Speaker
They do.
01:06:57
Speaker
And especially in this year's running, like it's, it's definitely dominated by a storm.
01:07:04
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:04
Speaker
Best play field and layout.
01:07:08
Speaker
I mean, come on.
01:07:09
Speaker
I've been saying it.
01:07:09
Speaker
Come on.
01:07:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:10
Speaker
You can say it too.
01:07:11
Speaker
It's Godzilla.
01:07:12
Speaker
Go, go, go, Godzilla.
01:07:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:15
Speaker
I would give an honorable mention to, to Jack and Jurassic park.
01:07:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:21
Speaker
I was pleasantly surprised with, I think that he, okay.
01:07:25
Speaker
He surprised me given that he, given that I had not, I had no expectations whatsoever.
01:07:32
Speaker
that game is fun.
01:07:35
Speaker
And it's very fun.
01:07:36
Speaker
And given the limited budget he did that on, I actually thought that was... I just didn't even know what to expect, so I didn't have any other expectations.
01:07:46
Speaker
So... Okay, so best artwork.
01:07:50
Speaker
Okay, how are you going to... I like me some Zombie Yeti.
01:07:54
Speaker
Okay, this is where I'm going to... I'm going to vote for Zombie Yeti also.
01:08:00
Speaker
However...
01:08:02
Speaker
Close.
01:08:03
Speaker
Like it's, it's a coin flip because I think the, um, that, uh, Martinez did such a great job of Mandalorian too.
01:08:12
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree with you there.
01:08:13
Speaker
So that actually, oh man, I wish I could, I wish I could possibly say a tie on that one.
01:08:21
Speaker
Because I love the artists that they've got for Stern.
01:08:25
Speaker
All of them are doing so good right now.
01:08:26
Speaker
They really are firing on all centers.
01:08:29
Speaker
I'm going to put Halloween as an honorable mention.
01:08:32
Speaker
Because I think, okay, full disclosure, in the Pinball Industry Awards, they actually had it separated for best play field artwork and best cabinet artwork.
01:08:46
Speaker
So best cabinet and back glass artwork.
01:08:48
Speaker
I voted for Halloween.
01:08:50
Speaker
Really?
01:08:50
Speaker
Really?
01:08:51
Speaker
Yeah, I did because I the reason why I say that is based on that picture alone, spooky sold out.
01:09:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's probably true.
01:09:03
Speaker
So that was so I'm looking at the the most valuable player on the machine.
01:09:09
Speaker
And that's exactly what it came down to.
01:09:12
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:12
Speaker
Okay.
01:09:13
Speaker
So a game of the year is, I think we can, we can say is Godzilla.
01:09:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:18
Speaker
Halloween.
01:09:19
Speaker
Yeah, man.
01:09:20
Speaker
I, I, I wish Halloween were better.
01:09:22
Speaker
I really do.
01:09:23
Speaker
It just, I feel crestfallen when I think about it.
01:09:27
Speaker
So I guess the other question too, is do we see a change?
01:09:29
Speaker
It seems like it's been the kind of the same thing for the last few years.
01:09:34
Speaker
Uh,
01:09:35
Speaker
in the entertainment section of twippies, are we going to still see straight down the middle take YouTube like they have since the beginning dead flip take since the beginning on streaming?
01:09:45
Speaker
Can I take pinball podcasting?
01:09:48
Speaker
Uh, or are we going to see any shake up there?
01:09:52
Speaker
Um,
01:09:53
Speaker
Straight down the mill has done less videos this year compared to what they have in previous years.
01:09:58
Speaker
Deadflip has been doing a lot less, but then we did find out he became an official employee of Stern.
01:10:03
Speaker
Yeah, so I think things are going.
01:10:05
Speaker
I would probably say, I mean, streamer, there are more things now.
01:10:14
Speaker
I think the challenge is for people to beat it, you're probably going to...
01:10:22
Speaker
have to develop a carve out a following that differentiates and i don't know how you do that yeah um i we we know that fox cities does a great job um we know that i'm buffalo pinball basically does a great job too it's multiple people streaming uh flipping out pen i all these guys they are they are great at that yeah um
01:10:51
Speaker
I would argue the most with streamer, though, I'm guessing it's going to be Carl D'Angelo.
01:11:02
Speaker
And the reason why I say that is because he had the most iconic moment last year when he got to the end of Halloween and it crashed on him.
01:11:12
Speaker
And he's just kind of like, and Carl's an elite player too.
01:11:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:17
Speaker
So I don't know.
01:11:19
Speaker
The problem is they all seem very close, right?
01:11:24
Speaker
The products seem very, they're great.
01:11:29
Speaker
But I don't know.
01:11:31
Speaker
I don't know what else to think.
01:11:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:34
Speaker
So what do you think?
01:11:37
Speaker
I think we still see more of the same.
01:11:43
Speaker
I think these people have made quite the following and quite the fan base.
01:11:49
Speaker
It's a very strong fan base.
01:11:50
Speaker
They'll follow through previous years.
01:11:54
Speaker
I was going to say a lot of people are just happy to be on the nominee list.
01:12:01
Speaker
It doesn't bother me one bit.
01:12:03
Speaker
It doesn't validate what we do
01:12:06
Speaker
You know, I, I've going to expo, I just, it was weird to see how far that you and I have come.
01:12:15
Speaker
Meeting people, carving out our little niche in our, in our podcast and earning the respect of those in the industry.
01:12:26
Speaker
And, you know, by and far, I would, I, I just love that we have done that for ourselves.
01:12:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:33
Speaker
It's really cool to walk up to George, George Gomez.
01:12:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:38
Speaker
I was like, you probably don't know who I am.
01:12:40
Speaker
And he's like, I know who you are, Josh.
01:12:42
Speaker
Like you're from loser kid.
01:12:43
Speaker
And it's like, Oh,
01:12:45
Speaker
And, you know, when he says he wants to come on your show because he respects what you do and he'd be more than happy to come shoot the breeze with us, that made me feel like we'd made it, you know?
01:12:54
Speaker
We have an interview that we're working out that will hopefully happen by the end of the month.
01:12:59
Speaker
And if the person does decide to join us on the show, I mean, that'll make me feel like we've made it.
01:13:04
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:13:05
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:07
Speaker
I...
01:13:08
Speaker
And I love that we, when we went to expo, like every person that we talked to, we have, we received positive feedback from them.
01:13:17
Speaker
And most of the people we talked to, I'm like, we want to get you on the show.
01:13:20
Speaker
And we still do.
01:13:22
Speaker
It is challenging to find like the right time to put that person in.
01:13:27
Speaker
Especially when we do really 24 to 25 episodes a year.
01:13:30
Speaker
Right.
01:13:30
Speaker
And so it just kind of depends, but really it's,
01:13:34
Speaker
It's kind of surprising to me because this for me, podcasting, this is what we do like podcasting.
01:13:41
Speaker
It's, it's like you and I talk three times a week and we probably message each other about every day.
01:13:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:49
Speaker
Um, and it just feels like I'm calling a friend and talking about a, a fun thing we do.
01:13:56
Speaker
That is a nice distraction from the, the challenges of daily life.
01:14:01
Speaker
I agree.
01:14:02
Speaker
So it's, it feels surprising to me that, that anybody else enjoys listening to it just because it just seems like, you know, calling up a friend and talking, I guess.
01:14:16
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:16
Speaker
So I'm glad I, and I appreciate every single person who has been in that silent chair position and has just enjoyed what we've talked about.
01:14:27
Speaker
It really does.
01:14:27
Speaker
Well,
01:14:28
Speaker
I want to give a quick shout out to your point, to your point.
01:14:31
Speaker
Here you go.
01:14:31
Speaker
Ready for this?
01:14:32
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:33
Speaker
Um, I don't know if you guys saw on the Facebook page, I got a smartwatch for Christmas.
01:14:37
Speaker
My wife wanted me, I've always had a Fitbit cause I just, I just want to see what the time is and maybe a quick text so that way I don't have to pull out my phone.
01:14:45
Speaker
And, uh, I got a smartwatch and then I figured out how to make your own face on, on the smartwatch.
01:14:48
Speaker
So I made a loser kid one, very basic, just something that would have been fun, uh, free for anyone to download.
01:14:55
Speaker
And I received a message from a pin cider, 6.5 degrees.
01:15:01
Speaker
Really nice dude.
01:15:03
Speaker
He, he sent us, I've downloaded a facer.
01:15:05
Speaker
I've searched, there's a kid.
01:15:06
Speaker
I'm not coming up with anything regardless.
01:15:09
Speaker
You're a loyal listener.
01:15:10
Speaker
And I'm like, I don't like, wait, what?
01:15:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's, it's super nice.
01:15:16
Speaker
And seriously, I, I, I'm, I'm just happy that for, okay.
01:15:23
Speaker
I,
01:15:24
Speaker
I'll get a little into the weeds here.
01:15:26
Speaker
I've always felt like the
Community and Personal Reflections
01:15:28
Speaker
mill house.
01:15:28
Speaker
Okay.
01:15:30
Speaker
I've always felt like I was never the guy that people hung out with.
01:15:36
Speaker
I just happened to be around someone who was more charismatic than me.
01:15:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:42
Speaker
Okay.
01:15:42
Speaker
No, I get you.
01:15:43
Speaker
And so this is kind of a shout out to anybody who else has felt like that in their life.
01:15:50
Speaker
And if,
01:15:51
Speaker
If they want to come and hang out and we can be the mill houses and just know that I, I don't care if anybody else thinks you're cool.
01:16:01
Speaker
I think you're cool.
01:16:03
Speaker
And it's just, it's fun to make a, a seat at the table for anybody who's willing to come.
01:16:11
Speaker
And you're valued and you're important to me and you're important to Josh.
01:16:15
Speaker
And so that's been the biggest thing that I've appreciated throughout this whole process is that on some level, we have made a connection with someone.
01:16:26
Speaker
And even if it's just one episode, we have appreciated the ride.
01:16:30
Speaker
Yep.
01:16:31
Speaker
Obviously, we were appreciated enough that we got at least 100 votes or 100 plus votes to be a Twippy nominee.
01:16:38
Speaker
Right.
01:16:38
Speaker
And so it still shocks me every morning when I wake up and my phone alerts me because since I made that watch face, it will tell me when someone's actually synced to their watch.
01:16:48
Speaker
I still haven't done it.
01:16:49
Speaker
I have the Apple Watch.
01:16:50
Speaker
That's funny.
01:16:52
Speaker
So you haven't done it.
01:16:53
Speaker
So there's people that isn't us that is sinking this.
01:16:56
Speaker
It's free, but it's still.
01:16:58
Speaker
I am not the most technically savvy guy out there.
01:17:03
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:03
Speaker
So...
01:17:05
Speaker
Anywho.
01:17:05
Speaker
Okay.
01:17:05
Speaker
So, but my point being is in high school, I would have never thought that like, like I was in a touring band.
01:17:10
Speaker
I opened for bands.
01:17:11
Speaker
I always felt like the opener.
01:17:12
Speaker
I never felt like the headliner.
01:17:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:14
Speaker
And so it's cool that we've, like I said, we've carved out our little corner in this hobby and it's cool where we've come over these last three years.
01:17:22
Speaker
And I appreciate that.
01:17:24
Speaker
Appreciate a lot
Coping with Loss and Cherishing Memories
01:17:25
Speaker
of the friendships.
01:17:26
Speaker
I will not a lot.
01:17:27
Speaker
I appreciate all the friendships that we've made along the way.
01:17:30
Speaker
And it's still mind boggling me to me that people that I never would have thought of that I would ever talk to message me on a weekly basis.
01:17:42
Speaker
Yes.
01:17:42
Speaker
And I can't tell you how many people, friends, genuine friends that we have met through this process.
01:17:49
Speaker
I appreciate those.
01:17:50
Speaker
There was a lot that reached out this last Wednesday.
01:17:52
Speaker
I don't know if you saw my Facebook post.
01:17:55
Speaker
My dog that we've had for 12 years, she has been battling cancer.
01:17:59
Speaker
And she was old enough to the point that they just couldn't do surgery on her anymore.
01:18:04
Speaker
And it was let her enjoy her last few months because the cancer is going to take her.
01:18:10
Speaker
And, uh, and Tuesday morning, we woke up to the, the scary realization that it was, it was time.
01:18:17
Speaker
And, uh, she wasn't eating, she wasn't drinking, she was vomiting blood everywhere.
01:18:22
Speaker
And, uh, we had to make that, that decision of, of, do we let her keep living this life or, you know?
01:18:29
Speaker
And so finally my wife and I gave our kids one more night with our dog and, uh, we said goodbye to her on Wednesday.
01:18:34
Speaker
And it was probably one of the hardest things, um,
01:18:37
Speaker
I've done, I like, I haven't lost a kid or anything like that.
01:18:40
Speaker
I can't ever imagine that, but losing a pet when it's been a part of your family for 12 years is rough.
01:18:46
Speaker
And especially in that way, when you lose them to something like cancer, it just, it's even that much harder.
01:18:53
Speaker
And, uh, I appreciate everyone that reached out.
01:18:56
Speaker
Holy crap.
01:18:57
Speaker
Like I didn't realize how many people actually cared and sharing their stories.
01:19:01
Speaker
Uh, I appreciate when people share their stories because, uh,
01:19:05
Speaker
They know where I know where they're coming from and like, don't ever feel like you're turning into yourself or whatever.
01:19:10
Speaker
Like if you want to share your story, go ahead.
01:19:14
Speaker
But no, I, a lot of it was people from this community and I appreciate that.
01:19:18
Speaker
Thank you.
01:19:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:19
Speaker
And I, and I, I message you too, but when you hearing you tell it, it reminds me of my dog who,
01:19:29
Speaker
I lovingly referred to him as my step dog because when I married my wife, he was eight years old.
01:19:35
Speaker
But we had him for another, well, I guess he was probably 10 years old.
01:19:39
Speaker
So we had him for another seven years.
01:19:41
Speaker
And he was an old dog, but we noticed that he was getting down.
01:19:48
Speaker
And I went to work and my wife had said, we're going to take him in just to see
01:19:55
Speaker
And so I was working and she calls me and says, we're putting him down.
01:20:05
Speaker
And my kids were crying and I was crying.
01:20:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:13
Speaker
So it's hard.
01:20:14
Speaker
So my heart goes out to you and it's been...
01:20:19
Speaker
It's been four or five years now, but it still brings back memories that part of you is gone.
01:20:26
Speaker
Well, and just even realize it was, she's laying there on the table and just realizing this is the last time I was going to fill her fur and just pet her.
01:20:36
Speaker
A lot of times at night, as soon as I got home, she would sit by my side and make sure that I pet her head.
01:20:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:42
Speaker
And me realizing that wasn't ever going to happen ever again.
01:20:45
Speaker
Yeah.
Community Engagement and Future Plans
01:20:46
Speaker
time is short advantage of it while you're on this earth.
01:20:50
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:50
Speaker
Um,
01:20:51
Speaker
Tell those that you haven't talked to in a while that you love them and make sure they're doing okay.
01:20:55
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:56
Speaker
So I think that's a good point to stop.
01:20:58
Speaker
Let's wrap it up before we become crying messes on this show and whatnot.
01:21:03
Speaker
But thank you.
01:21:04
Speaker
Thank you.
01:21:04
Speaker
Thank you.
01:21:05
Speaker
And I haven't got a chance to send the reward back for even, you know, when we had Zach on.
01:21:13
Speaker
I've been so busy, but I haven't forgot about you.
01:21:17
Speaker
And we will definitely get your swag bag out from loser kid out.
01:21:20
Speaker
So thank you guys so much.
01:21:22
Speaker
And certainly we, we always appreciate it.
01:21:26
Speaker
If you share, share us and share our thoughts, we certainly want to connect with everybody we can.
01:21:31
Speaker
And as always, everybody is welcome to the table.
01:21:34
Speaker
Yep.
01:21:35
Speaker
Always judge a person upon their character and on and on anything else.
01:21:39
Speaker
So.
01:21:41
Speaker
If you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:21:44
Speaker
It is better to get ahold of us at loser kid pinball on Facebook or our individual accounts at Scott Larson or Josh Roop.
01:21:51
Speaker
We're also on Instagram, Twitter, and Twitch.
01:21:55
Speaker
If you want our direct links, go to soundcloud.com slash loser kid pinball podcast.
01:22:00
Speaker
I think that pretty much wraps it up for us.
01:22:01
Speaker
You got anything else for us, Scott?
01:22:03
Speaker
No, just looking forward to another two weeks and really happy that Rush is going to be awesome.
01:22:08
Speaker
And you're probably going to get a lot of guests that are Rush-centric over the next little bit.
01:22:13
Speaker
And that's just because I'm a total fanboy.
01:22:16
Speaker
Nothing wrong with it.
01:22:17
Speaker
So, all right.
01:22:18
Speaker
Talk to you later, Scott.
01:22:19
Speaker
Okay, see ya.
01:22:51
Speaker
Shut up and sit down.