Transcript
Elena Blair: Welcome back, empowered listeners, to another empowered coaching session, or like I said in the last one, I think I'm just going to start calling them empowered interviews. I am so pumped about the growth of the podcast. Some really exciting things are happening. Found out yesterday we have had 20,000 downloads, so if you are listening to the podcast, Don't forget to share with your friends to give us a review so that more ears can hear this information and become empowered because that truly is my mission is for my community to always feel like they are not alone and that they can do this.
Elena Blair: So I am excited. Long time coming because I had to reschedule this interview and a couple of times. It's been a crazy couple months. and I'm excited to interview Bonnie Phillips. And Bonnie is a Cincinnati based photographer who took my mastermind and who I just got to spend time with in Palm Springs at the retreat.
Elena Blair: And she is um a force. She has an awesome personality. She was such a great addition to the group. But when i what I want her to talk to you guys about is her niche because she is a branding photographer. at at no She does other things too, but that is her main specialty. And I really worked with her on ah leaning into that brand during the mastermind and really building that. So I would love for her to talk about that. But I just want to introduce you, Bonnie. I think you're awesome. so glad you're here. Welcome.
Bonnie Phillips : Hi, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here too.
Elena Blair: Good. Well, I wanted to, you said you have a funny story about how you, um, how you came about me and my program. So tell me all of, tell me.
Bonnie Phillips : Okay. Um, so I can't wait I didn't tell you this in Palm Springs, but so I started following you only not on Instagram, like when Jasmine star was still a photographer.
Bonnie Phillips : So you guys were like, this is a long time ago, like I would think you would say like longtime lurker, never a commenter, right? Like I would probably be your case for like the Instagram long game conversion.
Bonnie Phillips : ah So I had been following you forever and I always loved your stuff.
Elena Blair: Yeah.
Bonnie Phillips : And then i was, I used Shoe Proof. And so I was, I signed up for some like talk, I think. And it was all about like how to, I honestly don't even remember what it was, but you were hosting it and literally everything
Elena Blair: one of their webinars?
Bonnie Phillips : It was a webinar. Yeah. And everything you were saying in this was like so opposite of what I've been hearing, but it just landed with me. I'm like, oh, my God, where is this voice? I need more of this influence. And um so from that webinar, I think at the very end, you said like, oh, I have a mastermind, too.
Bonnie Phillips : And so from there, after following you forever, from there, that was when I like signed up to interview for the mastermind. was like, oh my God.
Elena Blair: That's funny.
Bonnie Phillips : I mean, it's, yeah.
Elena Blair: That's funny. um Well, that that is actually here's the thing with social media. It's a long game. It does not work quickly. Sometimes people follow you for your photography business for a long time before they decide to actually take the plunge. And um that's normal that marketing should be this big, like circular thing. And some people are coming in now and then some it's gonna take them a few years. But I love that. And I think that what you just said is something that I hear a lot. The the industry has a lot of um educators that will tell you there's only one way to do it. And if you're not doing it this way or there's this really complicated thing and I'm like, eh, I'm going to do it my way and I want you to do it your way and we're all going to live happily ever after and you don't have to overcomplicate it. And I like to make things simple when it comes to business. I really do. Because I want everyone to feel successful in their businesses. It's possible. and But we can overcomplicate our way into failure.
Bonnie Phillips : For sure.
Elena Blair: So...
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: All right. Well, tell us a little, um tell me a little bit about that experience of being in the mastermind. And then I want to talk about your business a lot too, but tell me a little bit about that experience for you.
Bonnie Phillips : alright So I don't, I don't know about you, probably not you, but I feel like in my journey with photography, if every time things get like slow or quiet, I'm constantly checking in like, Oh, should I stick with it? You know, like doing the litmus test of like how things are going. And when I found the mastermind, I had just, um, come to a point where I was like, okay, you know what? I don't think you're like really try, like I wasn't really trying to make this business like legit. And I like gave myself like six months. I said, just try like actually try for six months and just see what you can do with the business. And I think it was like a week or two later from me just like putting that out there that I saw your mastermind. And I also interviewed for like as a role with a magazine here in Cincinnati. Um, and those like things were just really transformative for my year. So when I was coming into the mastermind, I think, you know, I had for like the last five years, I have doubled what I've made previous years, um, for five years in row.
Bonnie Phillips : I think was four years a row, but it's sort of very small. Like I'm doing this, like so many of other people that you talk to that are doing this while also being like lead parent or like stay at home parent or, you know, just doing all the things. It's like, I just want to see what I can actually do because I don't think I've given myself like the full fair shot. And then, you know, enter the mastermind where we do all the unblocking and deep dives onto why and oh my gosh, all that stuff.
Bonnie Phillips : um I forget what the question was to that. Okay.
Elena Blair: Just about your experience in it. No, I like it.
Bonnie Phillips : okay
Elena Blair: I love that you're, yeah.
Bonnie Phillips : Okay, so my experience in it was amazing. um I felt like pretty solid going into it from like a technical standpoint as far as like my gear and my, you know, just like my composition and that sort of thing. But the biggest thing like for me was um I was telling myself it was the business piece, but it wasn't the business piece. It was the mindset for the business. um You know, I think...
Bonnie Phillips : I just wasn't like ready to really make it grow and taking the mastermind, like really helped unpack some of those reasons like why and strip away some of those like self doubts.
Bonnie Phillips : And, um, you know, just, it was incredible to like, just walk back through the money stories and, you know, just visioning where we want to go.
Bonnie Phillips : And, um, you know, i feel like a lot, it was like 90% mindset for me. Um,
Elena Blair: Yeah. Somebody said, and i I really don't remember who said this at the retreat, but I want to quote them properly, like give them credit because it was so perfect. She said, I and i don't remember who it was. so if you're listening and you came to the retreat, tell me.
Bonnie Phillips : Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: She said, I came for the strategy and I left with rock solid mindset. And um i I don't talk enough ah in my marketing about or even not in maybe I do. And I just don't feel like I'm doing it directly. But, yeah i you know, I don't talk a lot about mindset till I get you into the interview. And that that is really ah intentional because people, ah rightfully so, just want this to work.
Elena Blair: You know, like I just want this business to work or in Bonnie's case, I feel like a lot of you probably who are listening could see yourself in her exact position because I've had many, many, many, many many students that were in her position.
Bonnie Phillips : the
Elena Blair: And that is you're the primary parent or you have another job, one of the two. and you've been doing it and it's kind of been working and maybe you went, she said she doubled, I don't know what her numbers were at that time, but maybe you went from four to eight to 16 to 20 to 40,000. You know, you're kind of inching up and you're like, hey, is this working? Should I give it a shot?
Elena Blair: And you decide, okay, I'm going to take to the internet. I'm going to get some advice. I want to see if I can really do this. And what people believe, and and this is actually one of the saddest things that I see happen a lot, is that some very talented photographers will say that they quit because they don't like the business side of things. And the truth is, i think the business side is actually just as creative. and um And when you learn infrastructure, which we do in the mastermind and having things set up, the business is not complicated once you once you figure it out.
Elena Blair: But what's behind that a lot, which is what Bonnie was talking about, so I wanted to touch on it. is there are so many limiting factors that we have that stop us from being successful.
Elena Blair: And for most of us, it is not fear of failure, even though we were telling ourselves that. It's actually fear of success. So put that in your pipe and smoke it for a minute because it probably feels like you're like, yeah I'm not afraid of success.
Elena Blair: I'm listening to this podcast because I want to be successful. And what a lot of people will do is they will, you know, you make up excuses.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Yeah.
Elena Blair: And this is where what Bonnie and I worked quite a bit on is like, what, what? Why are you afraid to hit that next income level? What will it look like if you actually put the time in to get to your goals?
Elena Blair: well Are you worried that maybe in this season of parenthood, you will become a less than parent? are you you know ah It's a lot of these like things that we tell ourselves subconsciously that really hold ourselves back when we actually really do want the business to work.
Elena Blair: And it... um
Bonnie Phillips : Well, and I think, I think too, like you and I am the one-on-one, we talked a lot about this. Like for me, the fear of success and the fear of failure, of like there's so much camaraderie in the, in the failure, you know, like, Oh, we tried.
Bonnie Phillips : There's so much like safety there. And like people like get it you know?
Elena Blair: That's so true. That's so true.
Bonnie Phillips : and then like,
Elena Blair: I've never heard anyone say that.
Bonnie Phillips : ah Oh, but then like success is like, it's more isolating, right?
Elena Blair: god
Bonnie Phillips : It's more like, ah you know, there's less, there's more competition. And I know not in your community and that sort of thing. Like everyone I met was just like amazing. But ah there's a whole, one day I want to give a whole like talk on the difference because there is so much like, ah you know, the fear of success, like the fear of competing, the fear of isolating, you know, lonely at the top kind of thing.
Elena Blair: Oh, honey, this is all the gems. she's You're so right. i Gosh, and it's so – okay, I'm going to give like a weird example. Sorry go on a tangent, but when I wanted to have a natural childbirth um with my first – and I had natural childbirths with everybody – that when When you start, when you're pregnant and you start talking about birth, people just want to tell you about their horror stories, right?
Bonnie Phillips : Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: It's just like this and that. It's so bad. And um and i I luckily took this birthing class. you know I was really passionate about it. And she said, you have to tell people that you're only here for the positive birth stories and for the empowering ones.
Elena Blair: And I had to find women that who were willing to talk about their empowering birth stories. And they were, some of them, nervous to talk about it because in our society, birth, you know, if you watch a movie about somebody having a baby, they're sweating and they're screaming.
Elena Blair: And, you know, and by the way, there's some screaming involved. But it's like almost glorified for it to be this horrendous experience. And people and women love to talk about, and but and some of it is true, like some people have horrendous experiences, but they love to bond about that.
Elena Blair: And I've never even really thought about
Bonnie Phillips : Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: How, until you just said this, how, and and mean, I talk about fear of success a lot, but I've never talked ah talked about or thought about that camaraderie and failure, especially for artists and especially for mothers.
Bonnie Phillips : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: If you, when you meet a mom on the playground, oh, I look like I'm a mess. And how was your kid this morning? They want to talk about like all the bad stuff going on. Right. And it's so interesting. Yeah. and Not when you join my program.
Elena Blair: We talk about success and we get all into that that that part of it.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: But it's such an interesting thing, the self-sabotage that we will um do to avoid it. And one of the things that Bonnie and I really did talk about and that a lot of, um a lot but we talk quite a bit about ah in the mastermind is the money stuff.
Elena Blair: Because even if you think, no, I want to make six figures as a photographer. For some people, it's like, well, oh my gosh, that will mean that I'm making more than my partner, but I still want to be a stay-at-home parent.
Elena Blair: I still want this to feel part-time, so I'm not ever going to do that. Where there's a lot of people, mean, my photography business, the taking pictures part makes $150,000 a year, and i do very little photography anymore.
Elena Blair: Like, that runs on its own, right? If I wasn't an educator, I would have a part-time job.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: like this would And that's a very living wage, right? So there's these, like, time and money things that we associate with success. And then money stuff, and I'm trying to try not to get too deep on it here, but we all have a money story that was imprinted on our subconscious before we were seven, usually. And then we're we're just playing it out in daily life. We don't even realize it's happening and we're afraid. It's like, will money make me, if I start making more money, will I be, a you know,
Elena Blair: ostracized from my friend group who are all stay at home parents? Or will I be well, my partner think less of me if I'm making more than that. And that's one that a lot of people struggle with. Or, well, you know, just I could go on and on about it. But the money stuff is really, really interesting. And so we talk quite a bit about it in the mastermind because I know that when you become an entrepreneur, which is what you are as a photographer. Surprise if you didn't know that.
Elena Blair: You're like personal development just gets like put on. It's on crack because now you have your you're having to like deal with all this stuff. But once you once you deal with it, it's pretty powerful. The changes.
Elena Blair: So.
Bonnie Phillips : For sure. And like, I remember going through the mastermind and like kind of wanting to throw up sending out these bigger invoices. And then, you know, fast forward 12 months later, I'm like, I should like when I'm sending out a big invoice, I'm like, they're getting a good deal, you know, where it's just like, it's not that much.
Elena Blair: Ooh, let's talk about that.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: Okay. Let's talk about that actually.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: And yes yes, she learned, she has done, she is doing, which is amazing. But that, okay.
Bonnie Phillips : Thank you.
Elena Blair: We could go into the money mindset. I'm getting all hyped up now. We could go, I just love talking about it. But that, that part right there, we all remember that feeling. Every one of us had the time. And when you're in my program, I'm like, all right, we're going to get you to profitability. Everyone's number is different.
Elena Blair: It doesn't matter. Don't let anyone bully you into thinking if you're not making a certain amount that you're not profitable. it doesn't It's very much an individual thing. But I want everyone to get to that place within 12 months. That's my goal for them.
Elena Blair: And um all of us remember, I remember this, when I you know was first starting out and I was charging like $125 a session, that wasn't so scary. That felt weird too at the beginning. But when I got up into the $1,000 range, there was that moment where I'm like,
Elena Blair: is it right to be asking this much for photography? Like you have this weird insecurity about it because your confidence hasn't really caught up to that number yet. Your belief in yourself, your belief system in your value hasn't caught up to that.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: And we work in that but we work on that in the mastermind quite a bit because you do have to believe yourself. that you're worthy of the amount that you're, which you are, spoiler alert, you all are, that you're asking.
Elena Blair: But talk about how you work through that feeling because it is, we all remember it. When you send those first, when you when you raise your prices, by the way, your clients don't notice.
Bonnie Phillips : yeah
Elena Blair: if It's all us. It's all happening inside.
Bonnie Phillips : one
Elena Blair: But when you when you first do it, it's weird. And then you you equalize to it. you ah You adjust. You realize, wait, I'm totally worth this. But what how did you work through that?
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: What do you think helped you with that the most?
Bonnie Phillips : I mean, some of it, like, and you know, so I have like three segments of my business, right? I do branding, I do headshots, and I do families. And I think um recognizing, like, I am some of my ideal client in certain segments, like for a branding session or a headshot session, um but maybe not necessarily for ah a family session where, like, I may not pay a certain amount for x y and Z, but, like, the partly because I can, you know...
Bonnie Phillips : trade with a friend or do that sort of thing. But I, the clients that I serve value the higher end images, you know, mean like they value the sessions differently.
Bonnie Phillips : I feel like that's probably not the best way to explain it. But um some of it was just what's up.
Elena Blair: smoking No, go ahead. Sorry, I interrupted you.
Bonnie Phillips : You can like delete stuff in here, right?
Elena Blair: Go ahead.
Bonnie Phillips : but
Elena Blair: No, I don't. I don't edit. But no, keep going.
Bonnie Phillips : oh
Elena Blair: Yeah.
Bonnie Phillips : and not Maybe you will. ah
Elena Blair: I like it to be real.
Bonnie Phillips : ah Okay. So I think some of it was just doing it right. Like I would even like exhale, like before clicking send on these emails, like just, you know, like sending good vibes along with this invoice.
Bonnie Phillips : um It just terrified me, but the more I did it and the more clients, the, you know, I'm just realizing the value of the work. I really believed in it. I believed in the experience they were getting. I didn't feel like I was selling anything.
Bonnie Phillips : I felt like i was solving a problem um and like giving them
Elena Blair: We're in that. That's what we talk about the mastermind. You aren't selling, but you know, you really are, you are a problem solver.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Yeah.
Elena Blair: You you have a service that your ideal client needs and not every person is your ideal client. But when you're able to really connect with this person that needs exactly what you have to offer, it's just a no brainer exchange.
Bonnie Phillips : yeah
Elena Blair: It's like, this is something that they need and that you are going to solve for them. And it's just this beautiful exchange, really. I hate to not sound cheesy, but it's a beautiful exchange of energy. It's like, I did this for you and the energetic flow of money is coming back to me and it just feels good.
Elena Blair: But it takes a little bit. It takes little bit of work on that.
Bonnie Phillips : I did feel that like when connecting with those clients, like especially in the branding and headshot work, like I felt that completely where it just felt like so aligned and so fun. And, um you know, the money part wasn't even top of mind. Like I almost had to remember to like celebrate when I got money. So it's just like I'm just enjoying, you know, the experience with it.
Elena Blair: I love that. And that is what, um you know, in I'm actually teaching about pricing and at WPPI, but we we as photographers, and i and I think most humans have a lot of money stuff.
Elena Blair: Everyone, even if you were raised wealthy, has money issues. like it It is even if you're, you know, really working on it and healing them, things will always come up. And we when we make our pricing or when we're when we're building our businesses, we think that it's all about this number that somebody is like.
Elena Blair: And, so you know, when your brand is not professional, when your brand isn't aligned or it's confusing, it does end up being more of that, like the client kind of picks it apart. But when you have a super solid brand, And an amazing experience that, again, like she said, solves this problem.
Elena Blair: The numbers aren't an issue. And we think as as photographers, we believe that that our clients are sitting there like dissecting our pricing or or noticing when we raise the prices. They don't. They really don't. When you are providing that value. And that is where when when somebody doesn't want to pay what you are charging, it's not that they can't afford you. It's that they don't see the value.
Elena Blair: Those are two very important distinctions.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: I have clients who will tell me that I am on their family budget every year. that It's not that they are wealthy or can afford, you know per se what it is that I charge. It is something that they see as value. And I mean, I also have wealthy clients too, that probably maybe it's less of a budget thing for them, but Even so it's about that value.
Elena Blair: And that's what something that we really talk about in the mastermind is like, how do you create a brand and a business that has high value that, and you know exactly who you're trying to show that value to.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: And then it just starts working. i mean, it's really kind of cool actually.
Bonnie Phillips : and then
Bonnie Phillips : And I think too, to like give that the, the workflow, you know, just going through like really streamlining the business stuff.
Elena Blair: m
Bonnie Phillips : Cause like in, in being in your client's shoes a lot. And I know you guys talk about, talk about that a lot in the mastermind too, is just like those processes and like automating is, you know, the stuff that isn't fun, but also like I think this is the first year that I have found that creativity outlet in like my website and SEO and in the market, you know, in some of that stuff, which before I'm like, I don't, I just like would like close my Like I just, you know, try and do it and be done with it versus like I spent so much time on my website this year. um
Bonnie Phillips : And like Jamie Bugbee's class with the SEO and everything, just really drilling down into it. And like what you said, there is so much creativity in that business side of things that I think unless you look at that way intentionally, you won't see it that way.
Elena Blair: who
Elena Blair: You'll learn that in the mastermind. I i i really do. i mean, I know that I'm an artist and I know that I'm a good photographer. I'm not you know discounting that. I really do consider myself an artist. But I think, and some of you can probably relate to this, sometimes you'll see ah somebody in your area you're like, wow, this person doesn't seem like they're as good of a photographer as me. Why is their business doing better? Well, they learned business and they learned how to master that part. And the truth is like being good at business is just as important, but I do find it fun. And I, and when, when your business feels really aligned,
Elena Blair: with who you are and when your brand is really an extension of who you are, it becomes easy to market your business because you're really just sharing something that you're passionate about and sharing that problem that you know you're going to solve for somebody.
Elena Blair: It doesn't become panic marketing where you're like screaming at the internet, you know, to try and and get that next sale or that next booking, you really just have that really steady flow. And it's it's so much more rewarding that way.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: really is. It really is. um i could talk i just I think that the business is is so fun. um And it's when you are really in touch with who you want to be working with, it becomes this, like again, I already said this, this beautiful exchange.
Elena Blair: you know i've got ah My business runs only basically on repeat only And I have this amazing relationship with these people that I get to hang out with once a year.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Yeah.
Elena Blair: Like it's just been such a cool experience.
Bonnie Phillips : yeah
Elena Blair: So I want you, she Bonnie talked about the three tiers of her business, the three divisions. She does headshots and and branding, which I would say kind of lives under the same niche in a way.
Elena Blair: And then family. and And one thing that we worked on with Bonnie is how you make all of those cohesively work for one in one way. you know, platform on one website, on one brand, and you do have it all in one place.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Yep.
Elena Blair: And the reason that I, I rarely, rarely, rarely, i mean, i would say it's like less than 1% of the time recommend that somebody have two websites or two social medias for the simple fact that you will not manage both of them. It's already a lot to manage one. And what I remind my mastermind members when they have a multifaceted business is that the brand is actually you.
Elena Blair: You are the artist and your work is just a part of it. And so it actually can all exist in one place. So Bonnie and I worked on, this is like, You'll see it. We're going link her website so you'll be able to check it out.
Elena Blair: But it's like how in my business, you know, I am a family and newborn photographer at the core. That's what I'm known for. That's what I you know do. But I have a very robust school photography segment of my business, um school photography division.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: In fact, we're like thinking of hiring right now because it's popping off so much. And um
Bonnie Phillips : awesome
Elena Blair: so It lives on the same website, but it has its own place on that website so that if somebody only wants to learn about that, they can learn about that. And that's what we worked on with Bonnie's website is how, you know, what is your what is going to be your core thing that you're known for? And then how can people find the other parts of your business? So how is that?
Elena Blair: Explain how ah you talk to them a little bit about how we separated that and how that's working out for you.
Bonnie Phillips : So um it took me a while to just even like name that, right? Because I think, you know, you said like headshots and branding can kind of go under the same niche. And like, here I am trying to like educate clients why it's different.
Bonnie Phillips : And also I feel like based on like the rapid changing of technology, like I struggle sometimes to myself to like really segment why they're different.
Elena Blair: you
Bonnie Phillips : Right. But really it comes down to like the experience of it. And so, what the mastermind and through working with this magazine, I just realized how much like I like I love branding, but I love branding for like small businesses and creatives and entrepreneurs and um really decided I want that homepage to speak to that. I love working with women, supporting women businesses. And my like you go on my homepage and you'll see all of the brand, you know, you'll see the dropdown the services where I offer headshots branding. seniors and family. Um, and I do want to offer schools, just to throw that out there, but, um, you go down and it'll, it'll, it'll break it out into different like landing pages, different segments where you can go and read more on each one. But the, the hero image, you know, like what people first see is definitely like a strong striking branding image, but it's, um,
Bonnie Phillips : it took me a minute to realize, can I carry my brand as a branding photographer? you know Branding photographers in Cincinnati don't get a lot of, believe it or not, don't get a lot of Google hits, um where I think it kind of comes back to like educating people what they're looking for.
Bonnie Phillips : like They might think, I'm looking for headshots, but they don't want a thumbnail for LinkedIn. They want full body lifestyle, environmental, and maybe in front of their store. Like that's, you know, speaks more about a branding session.
Elena Blair: Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Phillips : So also educating the clients to when they get to my page, like what's the difference? um But it was a little scary, right? Like I started off in families and then when that didn't quite fit like my lifestyle with my growing family, really,
Bonnie Phillips : switch to headshots. And I loved headshots.
Elena Blair: hurt
Bonnie Phillips : And like, as far as like, um, profitability and, you know, like all of that is great. But to me, branding was almost like the the mix, like the best of both worlds. You get the creativity, it's not rinse and repeat. And you get, you know, you're working with these like business owners, you know, like just working on a different, for me at the time, especially the younger kids, it was just a different part of my brain that I wasn't using as much as I wanted to be.
Bonnie Phillips : Um, so I think like figuring out who I was even talking to, you know, is it the, the mom who's, you know, running a store and also picking up her kids after school?
Elena Blair: Yeah.
Bonnie Phillips : It's, it's the mom, you know, it's, it's really these like pretty well-educated women that are ambitious and want to make a difference in their communities and, um, might be kind of overwhelmed, you know?
Bonnie Phillips : So it's like, how can I, um take something off their plate and so like elevate them on their best day so that for their websites, you know, they could be making passive income or people can find out who they are and they don't even have to be in the conversation, like how to help them just market themselves.
Elena Blair: And this is a big part of the mastermind. And by the way, if you took any business course, this would be, our it should be a big part. And you've probably heard people talk about it on other podcasts. And as you start to take to the internet and research, how do I you know market my business?
Elena Blair: You hear people talk a lot about the ideal client avatar, dream client, ideal client. And the reason that those of us that are experts at marketing talk about it is exactly what Bonnie is saying here. And it's this is actually it it really eliminates the like, I'm trying to say it like the, the, the need to scream at the internet.
Elena Blair: And because when you get, when you start, so for Bonnie, she said it so beautifully here that, you know, there are ah every town, if you're, if you are interested in branding photography, by the way, like there are so many brands and businesses that need it.
Bonnie Phillips : Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: Every town has a million businesses. Even a small town has a hundred or whatever. But you don't want to be every business's photographer. you and And Bonnie you know knows she wants to be branding photographer.
Elena Blair: OK, now what kind of brands do I want to work with? Rather than just saying, I am a branding photographer. I'll take picture of a truck company. I'll take a picture of a bakery. I'll take a picture of a tree service company, which there are photographers for every single one of those types of businesses.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: And maybe you're one of them that wants to do that. ah But Bonnie got really, really focused on who she wants to serve. And um that's when marketing gets even more magical because now you're just talking to that person.
Elena Blair: And when they find you, you are educating them saying like, this is how I'm going to help you grow your business. This is how I'm going to help you create marketing material for your business. And um cool thing about branding photography, I think from a marketing standpoint, yes, I want you to have good search engine optimization. And yes, I want i want you to have an email list and all of those things. But if you want to be a branding photographer,
Elena Blair: and I don't remember if I told you this in your one-on-one, but I bet I did. um I always say, think of 10 brands that you are in your community that you know you could really serve really well and reach out to them directly.
Elena Blair: Because a lot of people are not, not everyone's a photographer.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: So not everyone understands visuals like we do. And they don't know that there may be their website sucks because they have bad photos or that maybe their social media stuff isn't converting because they don't have great photos of themselves.
Elena Blair: Or maybe they don't, you know, they don't know about that element. So you can say like, hey, I have this amazing service that is going to really help your business. And that's a really effective way to get those first bookings on the calendar if you want to be a branding photographer.
Elena Blair: So just had to get into that. But the ideal client stuff is so important because you stop in it.
Bonnie Phillips : Love it. Love it. Yeah.
Elena Blair: That ideal client is important for any type of photographer. Whatever you want to photograph, you have to know who you want to work with. And it's okay if you don't right away.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: And sometimes that's trial and error. And you'll always get one or two that squeak in every year that you're like, wow, that wasn't the best fit. I don't know how that happened, but but it it starts to happen less and less the more
Bonnie Phillips : yeah
Elena Blair: clear your brand is and the more clear you the the more clear of the problem that you have to solve for these people.
Bonnie Phillips : like Two things to say to add to that, because when we did the ideal client exercise, like I think it it solves so many problems, but like two of the loudest ones for me was exactly what you said. like I don't love talking about myself, right but it's so much easier for me to...
Bonnie Phillips : talk to someone, like I'm talking to that person who's looking for my services versus just be like, Hey, I'm over here. I've got to, you know, come look at my photography site. Um, so just being able to like name that voice was amazing, but also like for me, knowing my ideal client, when I wouldn't get ah you know, a follow-up from an inquiry or if I wouldn't get like, if I was really close to landing something and it didn't happen, I was just okay with it. Whereas just kind of like, you know what, I just, that might not have just been, you know, it just wasn't my ideal client or this, what like they didn't value this service and just gave me permission to kind of not take it personally, you know?
Elena Blair: Yeah, we're not meant for everybody. This is a good thing. This is what when I say community over competition and then there's enough room for all of us. I mean that wholeheartedly because tis the truth. You are one human being that can only photograph so many people.
Elena Blair: Why not have it be the right people and the ones that want to go to someone else that need have a different need than they should go to someone else. And there's another photographer that is going to meet that need. And then that is a good thing.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: This is you don't want to be everyone's photographer. You want to be the right photographer for the right person. And it sounds very, if you're listening to this and you're like, I've heard all all about ICA stuff, it doesn't work well, you probably don't really know who you want to work with yet. And um that's okay too, takes time. a lot of the stuff that we do in the beginning of the program, we just started the new cohort this week. And I always tell them, don't worry, like the strategy's coming, but we have to lay the foundations first. And I think a lot of my new students that are like, just want to make, you know, six figures this year or whatever. I'm like, I'm going to get you there. But we have to talk about this stuff because
Elena Blair: You can't teach strategy without laying those foundations. You simply can't. They won't work. And um it's a lot about knowing your ideal client. And the next thing that we talk a lot about is why the hell are you doing this anyway?
Elena Blair: Because if you aren't real clear on why you want to do this, it's hard to communicate to people because you feel like you're just, like you said, maybe just talking about yourself.
Bonnie Phillips : Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: You feel like you're not really sure, you know, is this valuable? Because you just don't believe yet. And you have to get that stuff all sorted too. That's like the foundation of marketing that is so important.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: i mean It keeps you going.
Bonnie Phillips : That, like, from what you were saying in Mastermind, I mean, like, when we dug into that, like, why are we doing this, you know, where it's like, you could, I mean, people find jobs that have consistent income all the time. Like, this is, you know, more the unknown. Like, why are we doing it? And for me, it was huge. it was, like, revelatory, where I was, like, I just feel like when I have a camera in my hand, I belong in, like, any room at any table. Like, I just felt like, you know, that, know,
Bonnie Phillips : physical camera just gives me so much confidence and permission just to show up how I want, you know, like unapologetically versus like, You go in and like, you know, read the room or whatever. Of course, that's always good. But like, it just felt like I just love being able to see the world through like what I can capture my lens. And like knowing that, then I'm like, okay, like any photo shoot is just an opportunity to like connect with people. It just like took the pressure off. Like this is just fun. I mean, and making the money is great, but this is also like at its core, like fun for me.
Elena Blair: Yeah, it it we're all going to most of us have to work, not everyone, but most people. I mean, I live in a city where single income families, I don't know if they exist anymore. Seattle is so expensive.
Elena Blair: And um but why not make it something that you love, you know, and then and photography is very profitable.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: it Our industry is totally thriving like it I know that people want to say we're in a weird political climate and people want to talk about the economy and all of that. But if you look around, there's I mean, and I know because our our community is so robust and thriving so much, it's such a value in our world, even with AI, people are not going to AI themselves, a family photo or a branding shoot.
Elena Blair: i think I think we have a very solid solid industry, which is amazing.
Bonnie Phillips : yeah
Elena Blair: but But if you have to work, make it something you love. And so then you start your photography business, it's like, don't stray from what you love, like keep it aligned with why you wanna do this. and it's in it And it goes far beyond that you are good at taking pictures.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Yeah.
Elena Blair: Like that's kind of the, that's the technical part of what we do. But what we do is so much more personal and deep and heart led. And when you get aligned with that,
Elena Blair: when things aren't going great, which so sometimes happens, you stay the course because you know, because you believe in yourself and you know that it's worth it. I mean, I'll never forget during the pandemic, like was like, is this it?
Elena Blair: Like, you know, we couldn't work anymore. I'm like, is this the end of this career? Like, are we going to nobody knew what was going to happen? And I just was like, no, i know this is important. I'm going to keep going. I'm gonna keep talking about it. And lo and behold, like photographers had like their biggest years ever in 2020.
Elena Blair: because of that value and because of that why.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: So anyway, I love that. love that
Bonnie Phillips : And Alina, going back to the AI, um because I think that's everywhere, right? Like we're seeing impacts in our software and our clients, like questions and all this stuff. And I know certain parts of photography are getting hit harder than others, but I just, I've kind of, like I can spot an AI like post, like in an instant, there's just this like rhythm and cadence and like,
Bonnie Phillips : the repetition is honestly just as like, oh my, it's, it's so um obvious. And I was talking to another photographer the other day.
Elena Blair: Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Phillips : I was like, a told her, I was like, Kim, I think we might get more referrals in 2026 from AI than from anybody else because people are coming like, Hey, I want to try this.
Bonnie Phillips : And I'm like, please do like, please try it. And then, and then a year later, we're going to talk because people are not happy with their AI headshots or their AI branding.
Bonnie Phillips : Like it, it solves a problem very short term, but I think it's so, yeah, you can tell.
Elena Blair: Because people know it was an AI photo. You can tell.
Bonnie Phillips : And I think like just that human experience, like, I just think like it's gonna, you know, kind of long game, but you may not be my client today, but I bet in about a year, we're gonna, we're gonna want to connect.
Elena Blair: The human experience part, there is there you go. i think in I know that AI, I mean, I talk about AI in the mastermind, using it for your business. I'm actually a big fan of it.
Elena Blair: I'm not afraid of it. But and, you know, some people do say like AI is going replace everything and it is shaking up industries. Like I'm not denying that. But I think, you know, my daughter is a very serious ballerina and we were at one of her ballets last week and it's just like so emotional and beautiful to see like real ballerinas like dancing in and you know it's a human.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: And I actually, and maybe I'm, Maybe I'm being trite or wrong, but I think we're going to value in-person performances because we want because part of movies are going to be AI now.
Elena Blair: So we're not even going to know if it was real. Like it used to be when you watched a movie, you could really celebrate all the talent, right? Everything that was happening. It was the lighting director and the art and the makeup artist and also now a lot of that's being replaced by AI.
Elena Blair: So I think that in-person theater, in-person dance you know ballet, and having your picture taken by a human being who's there feeling your emotions and and understanding your brand for in your case and all of that is actually going to become higher value.
Elena Blair: I believe it.
Bonnie Phillips : 100% yeah.
Elena Blair: I believe it. and And we're seeing it. Like people are saying that um theater and that kind of stuff is getting more, and it it gets having like a major uptick. And it's, I think that's very much part of it.
Bonnie Phillips : yeah
Elena Blair: We're all like lacking in human in human connection for sure.
Bonnie Phillips : yeah even Even going to the gym, you know, I've started going to hot Pilates and there's so many people in there. I mean, these classes are packed. And I ran into like four or five people I knew and they were like, I just needed to get out of the house.
Bonnie Phillips : Like they, you know, they they just wanted to be around other people. I'm like, we're all, you know, like I think that human connection, i feel like we'll see kind of a, like a, not a course correction, but I think we'll see it come back, like people prioritizing it more for sure.
Elena Blair: Well, matt's I think i um I shared this on on Instagram. i i shared a post like ah not last fall and I said, i have a stopped reading. I had stopped reading at the time.
Elena Blair: I was like, i used to read all the time and I don't read anymore because of social media.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Love it.
Elena Blair: And I was working out at home. i have a little home gym and we have this thing that um called a tonal that has like, you can watch videos or whatever.
Bonnie Phillips : yeah
Elena Blair: And I was like, you know what I'm going to do this year? going to start doing in-person exercises classes again because I used to love them. i'm And I'm to start a book club. And I did both. And going to my first in-person exercise again class, I went to a bar three class.
Bonnie Phillips : love it
Elena Blair: I love bar. I love Pilates. I love hot yoga.
Bonnie Phillips : yeah
Elena Blair: Those are – I hate lifting weights. I know that in my 40s I should start doing it. But I love classes.
Bonnie Phillips : Do it.
Elena Blair: And the first one that I went to – A, i was like, wow, the price has gone up on this since I since i used to go pre-COVID.
Bonnie Phillips : but but
Elena Blair: But also I was i was nervous.
Bonnie Phillips : no
Elena Blair: you know I was like, oh my gosh, I i hadn't been in it.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: And I used to do that all the time. But like stepping into like this exercise room with all these other women and like what if I suck?
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: At the end, I was sweating and so invigorated. And now I've been regularly, I've been going to like three different classes a month. But even that, you know it just feels good to get into the room with other human beings.
Bonnie Phillips : Feels good.
Elena Blair: o
Bonnie Phillips : No, I mean, like literally, told my friend who started, because she goes all the time and I went with her and I was like, I get nervous. I don't know where to put the towels. Like, I don't know, you know, you just don't know the, and then you get in there and you do it and you're like oh my God, was I really nervous?
Elena Blair: I know. Did anyone, nobody cared. Well, that's the, that's probably, i don't know about this, but you guys know who take the mastermind that I'm like so into neuroscience and like rewiring your brain. And I i bet that that,
Elena Blair: is like good for your brain. Like we, when we, cause you're supposed to like take your brain into new experiences and into uncomfortable experiences.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Yeah.
Elena Blair: We'll like rewrite, rewrite new neural pathways. And we sit at home where it's comfortable. Like we're probably like becoming dumber because of it. So it's actually, it's good to get out there and like do something that, that it feels a little risky.
Elena Blair: Yeah. And that, you know, what I will pivot on that on that point is that this is why I have in-person one in-person event a year because, not because it's profitable, because it's not.
Elena Blair: In-person events are so expensive. But because i love online, obviously. i have this podcast. I do most, you know, the the mastermind occurs over Zoom. Like, I love the fact that we can get together with people online every day.
Elena Blair: Like, that's really amazing to me. But you cannot you cannot replicate that magic that happens when you're in the same room with people, especially us photographers that really work by ourselves and we're sitting behind a computer screen.
Bonnie Phillips : for sure.
Elena Blair: I mean, yes, we get to go do the shoot, but after that, we're we're here you know behind our computers editing and watch i will watch Sex the City for eight hours while working on my computer. Those are my friends.
Elena Blair: and um But when you get together in real life with people, it's so...
Bonnie Phillips : it's
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: It's soak it's it's a a little vulnerable sometimes because you're like, ah, am I going to hang out with people in real life?
Bonnie Phillips : ah
Elena Blair: But it's also just like so inspiring and so nurturing to be in the same space.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: And we we had fun at the retreat. Yeah, I was so glad that you went.
Bonnie Phillips : Oh my gosh.
Elena Blair: Yeah.
Bonnie Phillips : I didn't say much. I didn't have a voice, but everybody I talked to literally, I mean, I did a lot of listening.
Elena Blair: see
Bonnie Phillips : Um, everyone, the, the people that you drew to that event, it was just incredible. Like I could go out to dinner with anybody who was there and have a blast. Like it was just the, the quality and like the openness and the kindness of like everyone everyone who showed up was just, um, it was amazing.
Bonnie Phillips : And in some ways it's like ruined me a little bit because I have come home just thinking, how can I bring back more of that every day, you know, like we don't have colleagues.
Elena Blair: Well, you come every year. You're going come.
Bonnie Phillips : I'll come every year. i've been like sitting with how to how to have more in person connection, you know, like locally, but like, absolutely.
Elena Blair: Yeah.
Bonnie Phillips : I'll be back. Don't worry. Um,
Elena Blair: Well, I think that, um, Just to speak on that, my mastermind community, and I'm not just saying this because I want you to apply one day, those of you listening, but it's very intentional. I'm going to use the word curated not in a way to be exclusive. It's very inclusive and very diverse. We have people that are in their early 20s and people who are in their late 60s that are in the program like it's it is so inclusive and we do have guys in the community it's mostly women but we do have guys but it is curated in that every single person who ever joins my mastermind do an interview for and i've had like
Elena Blair: I have other friends who are coaches that are like, I can't believe you're still doing that. I'm like, no, I actually want to see the person first and make sure that they feel like I want them to feel or I want to have that connection with them.
Elena Blair: OK, are you really going to benefit from this?
Bonnie Phillips : yeah.
Elena Blair: And are you going to great contribution? And because of that, when we have the in-person retreats, so the retreats are for current members and alumni only. And I've asked, I've actually had my sponsors say like, let's open this up to but the public.
Elena Blair: And I'm like, no, i I can't because I don't want just any, and I believe in the good in all people, but I don't want just any random photographer coming through. We have plenty of conferences that are like that, that are fine and great, but I want it to be our little, our our mastermind family, which has grown quite a bit.
Elena Blair: There were 80 people at the last one. And and and it just what Bonnie was saying, that's what my my favorite part It was like on the first night when we're all just like sitting around for drinks. Bonnie couldn't talk because she got sick, but she was there whispering. um But I'll look at these tables and it's not just people from their current cohort or the cohort that they were in.
Elena Blair: Everyone's just commingling and like everyone's getting along and everyone is just like making these connections.
Bonnie Phillips : Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: And it's because it's like-minded in the right way, like just heart-led photographers who believe truly in community over competition. And it's just like it's it it warms my heart. I come home like just exhausted, of course, but just like so proud of the community. I wish I was the coolest part of the mastermind. I'm not. It's the members and like what they contribute to this to this community. And it's just so special.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah, it truly was. And just, I mean, from all of it, from like the location to the venue, like, and the speakers, I mean, I just came home, like, I didn't know quite where I wanted to start.
Bonnie Phillips : But I was just, I mean, the timing of that to being like in the beginning of the first year. And like, for me, January, February, first week of March is usually heavier office work anyway, like, you know, website marketing, all that stuff.
Elena Blair: Yes.
Bonnie Phillips : To have that, and to make all those connections and to come, I mean, it was just like, I was blown away because you never know. You're like, oh I've never met any of these people in person before.
Elena Blair: yeah
Bonnie Phillips : But it was, I mean, it was, it was amazing. It was amazing.
Elena Blair: I'm glad you loved it. It's, it is, I, my very first, um, in-person event was WPPI, which is a much different experience. I do love it a lot. Obviously I'm speaking at it.
Elena Blair: I have for many years, but I, it was, I was two years into my business and I had been on this online forum and I was like, I just, I need to meet people. And I think going to go to this conference. And i remember my ex-husband was like, what?
Elena Blair: Yeah. And um I went and i stayed with this girl that I had met online. i was like, God, hopefully it's not like some dude that, you know, is tricking me into coming. And it ended up, but that being said, even though it was a very different experience, a big conference like that is very different than what I put on.
Elena Blair: But it was still like so inspiring to be with all of these other people doing what I was doing because I kind of I didn't know any other photographers in real life at that point.
Bonnie Phillips : no
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Elena Blair: and i And you do know a couple or whatever, but to be in this like, you know, environment of like, oh, look at all these people making it as a photographer.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah.
Bonnie Phillips : no
Elena Blair: I didn't even know at that time how successful photographers could be. And then and they get it. They understand what I'm going through. They know the weird struggles that I have and they they they know about, you know, my insecurities.
Elena Blair: And like it just it's so it's so ah inspiring to be in person with other photographers. It really is. And If you've never done an in-person event, like you should definitely, definitely consider it because it's, it's pretty cool.
Bonnie Phillips : What blew me away too was when we did the headshot exchange, um the talent the talent from that which maybe we should call it branding branding exchange uh but the talent of the photographer like what people posted it was just what's that yeah you're so
Elena Blair: Yeah.
Elena Blair: Mine are coming still, by the way. Sorry, guys. this I haven't edited mine yet from the retreat, but coming.
Bonnie Phillips : ah Worth the wait, I'm sure. um But it was just, it was really cool. It was really cool just to see, you know, like you said, all walks of life and everyone's own perspective. And um I just, I loved it.
Elena Blair: Yeah, that's something that we do with the retreat. We call it a headshot exchange party. And Canon comes and brings a bunch of lenses. And I always tell, I tell everyone, get weird, like try a lens, try a lens you wouldn't have tried before.
Elena Blair: and you know, these, this is no risk situation. And it's fun. Everyone just crawls the the venue. We're always at a cool place. We're at the Saguaro Hotel in Palm Springs and takes photos of each other.
Elena Blair: And it's such a cool experience for us for that don't really love to be behind the camera or you're in front of the camera, excuse me, to be to get your photo taken. But then you also get to try, like it's full sun sometimes, backlight, like weird. We just try all this different stuff. So you're really in this creative flow. But then you go home, we have a ah way for everyone to share. And now you have all these photos of yourself that you can use for your branding or your headshots or whatever. And it's just a really fun. That's probably people's favorite, one of their favorite parts anyway.
Bonnie Phillips : I mean, I was in an article like last week and I pulled one of those right up and plugged it in. Like it was, I mean, they're all over my website already. Yeah.
Elena Blair: Yeah. Yeah. It's a very valuable part and a unique thing that is from the retreats that I have. Well, Bonnie, we could talk all day. um Also, i remember what I loved everything that you were wearing at the... i was like, wait, I would wear that. I would wear that. It would be very similar styles. and
Bonnie Phillips : Love it. Love it.
Elena Blair: I want you to...
Bonnie Phillips : back hang
Elena Blair: Well, we're going to link everything, of course, in the description.
Bonnie Phillips : Sure.
Elena Blair: It'll be um you know all of the places that you can listen to your podcasts and it will be on our website. But tell us where the people that are listening today who want to know more about you can find you.
Bonnie Phillips : Yeah. Let's head over to my website. It's just a www.bonniephillipsphotography.com. And I've been working on it I'm like really proud to show it off. So,
Elena Blair: about your Instagram.
Bonnie Phillips : My Instagram is at Bonnie Phillips photos and it's P H I L L I P S.
Elena Blair: Okay.
Elena Blair: If you are curious about branding photography, go check her work out because it's very inspiring, very, very clear. You'll see what we've been talking about here, who she is who she works with, the type of brands that she is looking to work with. um And I'm proud of you. We worked hard on that. So,
Bonnie Phillips : Thank you. Me too. I appreciate it.
Elena Blair: I'm glad we finally got this conversation going and it has been so awesome to talk to you today, Vani. Thank you for being here.
Bonnie Phillips : Yes. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Elena Blair: course. Remember if you are listening, downloads, help us out and make sure that you give us a five-star review. Thanks a lot. See you next time.
