Transcript
Elena Blair: All right, empowered listeners, welcome back to our Empowered Coaching Calls.
leslie Fox: and
Elena Blair: I am so excited to have Leslie Fox here. She is a photographer based in Columbus, Ohio, but she and I have known each other a while. She came to an in-person retreat that I hosted with one of my friends back in like 2018, maybe?
leslie Fox: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: Yeah, was I think yeah me i think it might have even been but no yeah I think you're right.
leslie Fox: Yeah, 2018. Yeah, a long time ago. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: it was and um Her and her friend Karen came. They have become my friends. And since then, she has taken the mastermind and been a mentor for me in my mastermind and come to in-person mastermind retreats.
Elena Blair: So me and Leslie go way back.
leslie Fox: We go way back.
Elena Blair: We go way back.
leslie Fox: We've been doing a lot together.
Elena Blair: So I...
leslie Fox: Yes, we have.
Elena Blair: mean... Yeah, we also had personal things that were we were going through, separations at the same time. Just one of those like kismet. We had a lot in common. We had a lot in common. So I um i want you to start by telling our listeners, our empowered listeners, um about your business, about what is currently the state of your business, what's been going on, just so that they can get a little bit of a feel for who you are. And I'm sure they'll see themselves in you too.
leslie Fox: Okay. So um I'll go back to 2018 when I met you and I had been a hobbyist for a long time, one foot in, one foot out. I was thinking about um this as a business, didn't really have the courage. I'm a mom of six kids and And that's been my job all these years. I was married to a physician.
leslie Fox: Everything was always about him and his career. I sort of was in the back seat raising the kids. Okay, fast forward to ah your mastermind. So I was in cohort seven.
leslie Fox: and um that is when, it's funny, when I first met with you, you is this the direction? Is this a good direction?
Elena Blair: Yeah, yeah. Yes, of course.
leslie Fox: I first met with you, one-on-one, and you said, okay, let me see your website. and i I didn't have one because I was still not sure that i had the confidence to make this a go.
leslie Fox: You know, it's... um Yeah. So anyways, so, and then, so I did the mastermind and then I mentored in cohort nine and I had eight mentees and that was, yes.
Elena Blair: So just to give give a little bit of context there, because some of the listeners are not, many of the listeners are not mastermind members or alumni. um Every program, every every run that I do, i bring in alumni to mentor the pods. So smaller working groups. And it's kind of like,
leslie Fox: um
Elena Blair: and don't I don't know. I always say it's kind of like your big sister in the program, but it really was a ah beautiful addition. We started doing that probably two years ago. And they just I really wanted every member to feel seen, supported, and heard. And you when you're in the Mastermind, you see me every week. You you hear from me on Slack. We do one-on-one time, lots of stuff. But I wanted that extra support. And bringing in the mentors was really cool because – It's again, it's just like it it really enforced the community aspect of the of the mastermind showing that we're all one. Like I don't ever i don't like like top down learning. I want everyone to know, like, I've been where you are. I could benefit from the things that I'm teaching you even. And so I love bringing in alumni who have already been through the program and can really support the current members. So that's a major benefit. So and Leslie was a beautiful mentor. So anyway, I just wanted to give a little context there.
Elena Blair: OK, you can keep you can keep on telling.
leslie Fox: Yeah. And I will say that was such a wonderful experience because we met weekly and we're still meeting. So, um yeah, I know.
Elena Blair: I
leslie Fox: i know. And I met four of them at the retreat. So, yeah, thank you for giving me that opportunity because it was just fantastic.
Elena Blair: I think that that is, i I always say this about the mastermind. i wish the best part of the mastermind was me. It really isn't the best part of the mastermind is the community aspect.
leslie Fox: else
Elena Blair: I think, I think that, um you know, we are tribal as humans, but then you start a business and all of a sudden you're very much alone.
leslie Fox: right
Elena Blair: i mean, I'm like in my daughter's bedroom right now. Like we don't, we don't have that camaraderie that support and the program. builds these lasting relationships that that is so fun to see.
Elena Blair: And everyone does something different with that. everyone Some people would buddy up with one person, some people stay with their pods and it's really cool to see that. So I i didn't know that you guys were still meeting and I love hearing that.
leslie Fox: We're still meeting.
Elena Blair: That's amazing.
leslie Fox: We're still meeting and we're texting and we're messaging and it's, it's just wonderful. So, so I will say, um and I'm really glad to talk to you because I want to speak to, especially to the moms that have raised kids and are older, because I am definitely on the older side and part of my,
Elena Blair: Yeah, awesome. yeah
leslie Fox: in call it an insecurity, an unsureness was, am I too old to start a business? And.
Elena Blair: I love it. Thank you for bringing... That is actually something that I get asked by applicants somewhat regularly, actually.
leslie Fox: Hmm.
Elena Blair: you You just said two things that should be addressed that I think are very important. The age part is something that a lot of people will ask. And actually they ask it when they're younger too. Am I too young for this? Am I too old for this? And just the truth is you could be 80 years old. And if you want to do something with your life that's different, you should do it. There is not like we are not dead till we're dead, right? Like there is never an end. Like you should just that that can that should never be a reason.
Elena Blair: But the second thing that you talked about, which is something that i actually just did a solo recording before this about, is that when we are a mom, it's very like when your your main role is mother, it's It's such an identity shift to step into entrepreneur, whatever you want to call it, photographer, artist, all these other hats that you have to wear when you're starting a photography business. And we don't we don't see ourselves as that when we were when we were mom, which is a very important role. We know that role is important.
Elena Blair: And it's almost hard to put that importance on the new thing that you're starting. So maybe speak a little bit to that.
leslie Fox: very
Elena Blair: Speak a little bit to how that transition um how you found the confidence to do it because this this is something that someone who has three little babies at home is feeling and someone who has teenagers or kids out of the house is feeling we all we all have the guilt and the weirdness about can i do this and still be a mom or whatever so speak to that a little bit
leslie Fox: Well, I blame part of it on society because we do not respect our elders. in in our country.
leslie Fox: And you go to other countries, you're you're youre Europe, you go to Asia, and the elders are revered. And everything here is marketed to young people. I can walk into Sephora and nobody will talk to me.
leslie Fox: And I don't like that.
Elena Blair: Ugh, that's horrible.
leslie Fox: can walk into Aloe, they're friendly because they know me, but I... you know, and I work out on a regular basis and I can wear the clothes, but I'm not, you become invisible. I think you've all, you maybe become invisible when you become a mom as well.
leslie Fox: And
Elena Blair: I believe that a lot of that is true on the mom front. um
leslie Fox: very much. And you do lose your identity.
Elena Blair: and it
leslie Fox: You do And when I was so young,
Elena Blair: Yes.
leslie Fox: Full transparency, I just turned 60. Well, actually I'm almost.
Elena Blair: Okay. By the way, you don't, I mean, not that it matters what you look like when you're 60, but you, that is shocking. You told me that at the retreat and I like almost fainted. I couldn't believe it.
leslie Fox: Yeah, well, I'll be 61 on March.
Elena Blair: So asly you don't look like you're ah in your sixties, but oh my gosh.
leslie Fox: Yeah.
Elena Blair: Okay.
leslie Fox: Well, my oldest daughter is 33 and I have two grandchildren now. So, um yeah. So you can see, you know, that this, you you think that everything is for young people and 60 year olds should be playing pickleball nonstop.
leslie Fox: And I come from a family where my parents are in their eighties. My dad's an attorney. He's still working full time. My grandfather worked full time into his ninety s like that Those are my role models. So I i feel like um I have too much to give to other people to not be using the talents that I have. I've earned the wisdom.
Elena Blair: Ah.
leslie Fox: And I like to help people. I like to help young people. I like to help help older people. I'm very intuitive. um I'm a caregiver. I just want to be present.
leslie Fox: And um and I want to use my skills to to help in any way that I can.
Elena Blair: That needs to be a T-shirt. I have too much to give to not share my talents and gifts. like that it's and i think I actually feel like, again, age or not, that's probably something that a lot of people can relate to.
leslie Fox: No, none. No.
Elena Blair: Because when we get this crazy idea to start a business with no experience, which by the way, anyone listening, none of us had experience in starting.
leslie Fox: now none
Elena Blair: i Maybe, but most of us are just like, okay, I'm going to give this a go.
leslie Fox: no
Elena Blair: it's It is a little bit of a calling where you're just like, I know I have this this thing that I want to share with the world, which is taking pictures. And I want to turn that into something meaningful for myself.
Elena Blair: And I think that that's that's something really important to to hear. like you should listen to.
leslie Fox: Well, and it's a and it's a also, I look at it as a gift that I'm giving others, you know, because frequently moms are not in the pictures at all.
Elena Blair: Yeah.
leslie Fox: They're just not.
Elena Blair: Yeah.
leslie Fox: Moms have their cameras and they're taking their kids. And, you know, I look back, I mean, there's not a lot of pictures of me when I was raising my kids. There just aren't. I mean, there's tons of my kids and that was film.
leslie Fox: I didn't get a digital camera until my fifth kid was born. And that's, you know, and then I stopped printing everything. So, but I have, I have lots of pictures of the older kids on, you know, printed.
Elena Blair: Yeah.
leslie Fox: And so, and I look back and I think, God, like I, it would have been so great to have family photos of my whole family. a lot of them, you know, and somebody who, the oh the whole lifestyle that we like to do, would have been amazing to have that.
Elena Blair: here
leslie Fox: And I don't have it. So I can give it to others now.
Elena Blair: Yeah.
Elena Blair: That's beautiful. I love that. Well, okay. Circling back to another another point that you touched on that I that i would love to um talk about, because I think that it was something that other people will also relate to, is this whole making it official thing. So there are some people who...
Elena Blair: I rush into that maybe even before their talents are are there yet, which is fine. And they build a website or whatever. But there are a lot of people that fall exactly in that camp that you were in where they they're like, i I want to have a website.
Elena Blair: I want to have a forward facing. professional photography brand, but there's just like fear of actually doing it.
leslie Fox: one
Elena Blair: And that's something that like Leslie and I worked through in the mastermind is just doing it and like just publish it, you know, just get it out to the world. What's the worst thing that's going to happen? So what do you think you were afraid of?
Elena Blair: Why why do you think you held waited so long to do that?
leslie Fox: Okay. so the, one of the lessons that you taught, and by the way, your, your mastermind is incredible and life-changing.
leslie Fox: Absolutely life-changing.
Elena Blair: Thank you.
leslie Fox: I will talk to anybody that you need me to, to help them understand what it's all about. it So the thing that you said, and it's interesting because we all come from different places, but you talked about taking up space.
leslie Fox: and how You did a whole lesson on taking up space. And that was, that was, that, that did it. That was the catalyst for me because again, I've raised these kids, took a back seat to a physician for many years.
leslie Fox: And i um, I'm an extroverted introvert. So, um, I like to be behind the camera.
Elena Blair: Mm-hmm.
leslie Fox: I don't like to be, don't like a lot of attention on me, and I don't like to take up space. And I'm also not competitive. And so i didn't know if I had the guts to actually do this because there are some steps that you have to do. You have to have people looking at you. You have to be on a website. You have to get an LLC or you know You have to go through, you have to start being on social media so people can find you. Those are things that were so intimidating to me. I didn't want anyone looking at me.
Elena Blair: Yeah.
leslie Fox: But um if you want something that badly, which I do, I did, I do. I mean, like I have fully stepped into that. you have You get over the hump.
leslie Fox: And you hide behind your kids for so long.
Elena Blair: hmm.
leslie Fox: And then the kids grow up.
Elena Blair: who
leslie Fox: And I loved being home with my kids. I was a good mom. I have six of them. They are all amazing humans. They range in age from 20 to 33.
leslie Fox: But they're done with me. They're living their best lives. I mean, they still need me, but not not like, you know.
Elena Blair: Right.
leslie Fox: And now it's my turn. And I am so excited. and I'm full steam ahead. So especially after the conference, my head is spinning with ideas of what I want to do next.
Elena Blair: I love hearing that. and And that the taking of space part that you're referring to so I can give context to people who are listening is um It's such an important part of of owning a business is is that, you know, and we all you if you're new to the photography world and you're taking to social media or Googling photographers in your area, you think, oh, my goodness, there are thousands of other talented people doing this.
Elena Blair: What what what right do I have to do it? Or where do I fit here? And something that we talk about in the mastermind is taking up space because there you do have to find the confidence to do that.
Elena Blair: And I always say, there's a place for you at this table.
leslie Fox: Thank you.
Elena Blair: Like I've been doing this for 16 years and new photographers crop up and find success every minute, every day. and But it does take a little bit of courage, especially if you were taking the backseat as a mom.
Elena Blair: and she And you're right. Like when you're a mom, it's like you're pregnant. All that people ask you about is the pregnancy. You have a baby. All they ask you about is the baby. You have kids. And then I even find myself doing it my kids are 11 to 19 years old and I want to talk about them and only them, right? And that's because we're we're prideful of our kids, but we forget like, no, we are also humans that are worthy of recognition and space and all of that, but it does take a little bit of bravery to do it. and um And I do push you to do it in the mastermind because I want that for you. I know that once you start, it's almost like a habit. Once you start taking up the space, once you start showing up,
Elena Blair: When she starts just telling people, yes, I'm a photographer. i have a photography business. It starts to get easier and you feel more and more confident doing it. So.
leslie Fox: Well, if you've taken the step to sign onto the mastermind, then you do have the guts to do it. So it's the it's the first baby step and then the and then you have to take a big leap.
Elena Blair: yeah
leslie Fox: Yeah.
Elena Blair: Yes, yes, that's ah that's a big part of it for some people. Some already have, you know, that joined the program already have websites, they've been in business 15 years, that's also, you know, a person that joins, but there are many that are a little afraid of of of going forward.
leslie Fox: go
Elena Blair: And I think what the mastermind gives is it gives you the skills to feel that professionalism that you are seeking in order to to do it, you know, with that kind of confidence that, you know, for some people, really they really need.
Elena Blair: So, um, your website has been launched, obviously, that was a couple years ago. So tell me what's going on in your business now.
leslie Fox: So, um you know, I was the one that said to you... I don't know what I want to concentrate on because I do families, I take pictures of construction, and I do branding.
leslie Fox: and so I ended up, um and you don't encourage this, but you know sometimes age is a little factor. So I did get help from a web designer in Australia for my website.
Elena Blair: Mm-hmm.
leslie Fox: It was taking me too long, and i needed something that looked professional. So i been I worked with her and we put all three categories on my website and um and that was launched in August, the new website. And since then, so my construction photography is a, that's a steady thing. And I work with a PR company and I'm their only photographer. So I get steady work from them.
leslie Fox: And then I do photos for a magazine, and that's a steady thing. It's a monthly gig. But i what I really want to concentrate on are families and marketing not just to young families, to to people my age, the generational ones.
leslie Fox: families because I know a lot of grandparents and they have a lot of grandchildren and I have a name for myself here. And so i going forward, I decided 2026, want to be full steam ahead doing that on social media and really concentrating on that.
leslie Fox: And then i just signed up for Becca's video course.
Elena Blair: Cool, yeah.
leslie Fox: that's I forget forget what she calls it. And I am so excited about that because I want to add video.
Elena Blair: Amazing. what First of all, just again, I always like try to loop back on the things you said just to close loops.
leslie Fox: Yes.
Elena Blair: um saying i don't she's Leslie but said, I don't recommend having someone design your website. And the only the only caveat to that is if if that is gonna get you if paying a designer to make your website is going make it happen,
Elena Blair: and you have that kind of disposable income, great. The reason I don't always recommend it is because we as photographers need to be able to edit our websites pretty frequently.
leslie Fox: I
Elena Blair: So just as long as you're able to edit your own website, yeah, then then that's fine.
leslie Fox: am.
Elena Blair: Then that that was a yeah that was a tool that you utilized and and great because it got you going.
leslie Fox: Yeah. Yeah. yeah
Elena Blair: The other thing that i think is really cool about what you just talked about so that listeners can like get a little insight is that she is doing a type of photography that I would say she is the only person who has told me that this is a regular thing for her. And that's the construction photography. And I remember talking about that in your one on one call.
Elena Blair: And that is just proof that there are so many avenues that you can take as a photographer. There are so many people that need photography services, so many niche ah areas that need it.
leslie Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: And you tapped into one, which I thought was really cool. And the other thing that um that you have, that even while you're building the family part, even, well, I'll talk about that too, but is that you have these regular year round income streams that are important when you become a photographer.
Elena Blair: So like we talk about this in the mastermind a lot, like but most family photographers can be very busy in the fall. But if this is going to be full time or regular income, you do need a plan for the other months of the year.
Elena Blair: And a lot of photographers will so will supplement with branding, photography, real estate, photography, school photography.
leslie Fox: Thank you.
Elena Blair: There's lots of different things that you can do. And so you've already you've already been thinking like a CEO and got that part implemented, which is awesome. But the next thing that I think I hope you see as a major strength here. And it's, ah again, we talk about in photography, like, what do you do? And we could all be family photographers, but what we do is different.
Elena Blair: And you have this focus that's very much a need in that you're like, I don't just want, because there are a lot of photographers who have young babies, right? So they're thinking, well, I want to photograph families with babies or whatever.
leslie Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: You're not just you're not ah you you're not putting yourself in that box. You're saying, actually, families with older kids, families with kids who have grandkids or whatever, they also need a photographer.
Elena Blair: And you can really zero in on that demographic, on those people, and you are – slated to be an expert there because you have all of this true life experience. And I think that's one of the things that we don't realize too as photographers, like taking pictures is a very small part of what we do. You have to be able to connect with these people and make them feel comfortable and they have to trust you and they have to feel relate, like they can relate to you. And you are so well positioned for that, for that niche, which is really cool.
leslie Fox: Well, and then the video, add the video component. So, you know, I was at my parents' house.
Elena Blair: Hmm.
leslie Fox: They live four miles down the street. And I was there last weekend when my daughter was in town with my grandchildren. And, my Nikon that shoots video. Now I haven't taken her course yet, but I have shot a little video and I thought, oh my gosh, this is what I want to do. I want to do both because to have a video of my parents, to have other, if I feel this way, my friends are all going to feel the the ones that still have their parents. They're all going to feel that way.
leslie Fox: So yeah I'm so excited about that.
Elena Blair: who
Elena Blair: Yes.
leslie Fox: Yeah.
Elena Blair: And she's talking about Becca Lewick, which is one of my mastermind alumni as well, um who I'm going be talking to, ah but she's also become a friend of mine and she's become an educator and she has a class on, on video.
leslie Fox: Cool.
Elena Blair: And um it's definitely a cool thing that you can add to your offers as a as something extra that you do, something different that you do that really sets you apart in the industry. So I don't offer video, but i I think it's really interesting those that do. And I think it's really beautiful too. The videos that they create are so cool. Such a good little, such a neat little like real snapshot of the the family dynamic, which is really beautiful.
Elena Blair: So I'm excited for you.
leslie Fox: So, um so then I, since the retreat, I came home so excited. I don't even know. Like so excited. My ideas are flooding. so I've written two blogs. my I've never written a blog before.
leslie Fox: And I wrote two blogs and they've been published. And then I did a Pinterest board and linked one of the blogs to the Pinterest board.
Elena Blair: Good.
leslie Fox: So I'm really starting to see how the tentacles can all like all the information that I have, how can I get it to people?
leslie Fox: And yeah, and then I've been posting a little more on Instagram. So I'm trying to be more out there and more present um for someone who doesn't really like to be present on social media.
leslie Fox: Yeah.
Elena Blair: Yeah, good. Amazing. And blogging, you know, and it will change your business because it will increase your search engine optimization. If if you're new to my world, i that's something that I talk about a lot is that search engine optimization, meaning people find your website on Google is, is, or now on AI too, is such a, it is a foolproof marketing strategy.
leslie Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: strategy.
leslie Fox: hu
Elena Blair: Once it starts working, it just starts working. It's not like social media where you have to feed the beast every day. It will it literally is like a little engine that will bring you inquiries regularly, but you have to get it set up and and running.
Elena Blair: And there's lots of stuff you do on the back end of your website, but they Google and AI like living and breathing websites and blogging is like the fastest way to do that. to put content out there that people are going to want to consume.
Elena Blair: And so it it tells the robots that are that are going to put you atop of the searches that you are a relevant website. So good for you for starting. And now keep that momentum going because blogging will change your business.
Elena Blair: I would say,
leslie Fox: It's actually, it's really fun. I mean, I didn't know it would so fun because there's so there's so much information that I have in my head.
Elena Blair: yeah
leslie Fox: I just want to get it out.
Elena Blair: Exactly. And think about it as um as just that.
leslie Fox: Yeah.
Elena Blair: You're sharing what somebody needs to know about you ah something that you have expertise or just experience with. And that um is that's all it is.
Elena Blair: It doesn't have to be rocket science. it's not you know It's not something super complicated, but I would make it a goal to blog once a month this year. And you'll see you will see an increase in your SEO from that alone, especially if you you and your web designer did all of the other backend things that are necessary, like naming pages and stuff.
Elena Blair: But um yeah, that'll make a big difference.
leslie Fox: We did.
leslie Fox: All right.
Elena Blair: And i I love that that you' so when you do an in-person, so she, Leslie came to my in-person retreat that I have once a year for mastermind and alumni. It was so fun. i can't believe it was like three weeks ago already. It seems like it was like yesterday, but and when you come home from an in-person event, whether it be one of mine or WPPI or whatever,
Elena Blair: I always say, I don't really remember exactly what I learned. Like, I can't tell you like the exact skill per se, but the inspiration, the fire under you to like do the thing, whatever it is that you've been putting on hold or whatever, it's so potent because it's just being in that space with those people for a couple of days who are all doing the thing and then learning a couple new skills like video, for example, we had a talk on video.
Elena Blair: it It puts the fire under you.
leslie Fox: It does because because you you do, this can be very lonely.
Elena Blair: It really does.
leslie Fox: You're a photographer and you're meeting with people and you come home and you're editing and there's a lot of work that you do do by yourself, but it makes you realize there's so many other people out there doing the exact same thing.
leslie Fox: and The sense of community is invaluable.
Elena Blair: Mm-hmm, yes.
leslie Fox: So, yeah.
Elena Blair: It really is. In person, mean, I love online education, obviously. I do a lot of things online, like like this podcast, but in-person connections, I don't think we'll ever be able to be replaced.
leslie Fox: Yeah.
Elena Blair: And and um that's why I go to big conferences and speak at big conferences.
leslie Fox: I agree.
Elena Blair: And that's why I host my own, because I really think it's important. And I think it's even more important now with how... glued to our phones we are, how, you know, glued to whatever we're, the screens that we live behind, literally.
Elena Blair: It's like, you got to put the screen down and see people in real life, even though it's a little scary to do that too. It's like, am I going to meet these people that I've only seen online or will they like me?
Elena Blair: Is this, good you know, like ah that it's all.
leslie Fox: Yes.
Elena Blair: Yeah, I know.
leslie Fox: Yeah, I know. That was so fun. Yeah, that part was, yeah, this was my third retreat with you.
Elena Blair: Yeah. i know
leslie Fox: Yeah. So, and then, you know, I'm jumping ahead, but I would really love to get into the education space in a year year or two.
Elena Blair: Yeah.
leslie Fox: And so that's that that's something I'm thinking of as well.
Elena Blair: And are you thinking that you'd like maybe like to write a class?
leslie Fox: Yes.
Elena Blair: Yeah. Well, you'll know where to find me.
leslie Fox: Yeah.
Elena Blair: I have a class on helping photographers write a class.
leslie Fox: I know. I know.
Elena Blair: It's called, well, it used to be a level two mastermind, but I turned it into a class and we're actually in the current first run of it now.
leslie Fox: Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: And it's been really fun to support photographers take to take that step because I do think we all have knowledge that can be shared and um you can help the version of you three or four years ago or six months ago or whatever that needed it and it's it's such an abundant way of thinking because it's it's you sharing that experience with people and giving them that transformation that that they want which is really cool so i think
leslie Fox: Yes. Yes. And I'm all about helping others. So yeah, I would love to do that. Thank you.
Elena Blair: you would be really good at that. I think that i think that you are, um you were an amazing mentor. like Like you're saying, you're still meeting with your group, which is nope which is so cool, but I think that you are definitely well positioned for that.
leslie Fox: We're still meeting.
Elena Blair: And just, you wanna make sure when you're list when you're stepping into the educator space, And what I always say to people who are doing it is I say, you want your photography business running kind of on on autopilot so that so that when you so that you have the time and space to do it because it does take effort to get it started.
leslie Fox: Correct. yeah
Elena Blair: And it does take showing up, taking up space again, all of that in another capacity. But you don't want your photography business to go by the wayside when that happens. And so that's you just want to make sure that that is feeling really healthy and sustainable first and then it's then go for it.
Elena Blair: I think you're going to be really good at it
leslie Fox: What is your feeling about how often to post on Instagram and social?
Elena Blair: Oh, gosh, the age old question. So social media. Well, OK, we're going to talk about two different things here all at the same time. Sorry, listeners, if I'm going to confuse you when it comes to your photography business, like taking pictures of people, the amount of people that you need in order to be full time is actually very low. So a photographer is full time at 50 to 200 photo shoots a year, sometimes less depending on their focus.
Elena Blair: depending on what they're charging, all of that, right? So I'm just giving like general numbers here. But even if you...
leslie Fox: Thank you.
Elena Blair: 200 would be a ridiculous, by the way. I do have some students and friends that do that high volume. And I'm not quite sure how they do it because it's a lot. My biggest year, my most shoots year was 180.
Elena Blair: And eighty and i it was a lot. It felt like too much. But I'm going to just give that range though, 50 to 200. When you think about how many people all that is, that's not very many people that you actually have to connect with.
Elena Blair: And so I prefer for... For photography business, I really prefer search engine optimization and email. I just think that they're more laser focused and reliable.
leslie Fox: Okay.
Elena Blair: and But when you do step into the educator space, you you really do have to start showing up on on some sort of social media platform. you You have to be seen as an expert. And there are a bunch, right?
Elena Blair: You could choose TikTok, YouTube, um Instagram. And so sorry that I'm making this a long answer, but I just want to be concise with it. So I recommend picking one and picking the one that you already spend time on.
Elena Blair: Like, for example, people always tell me, why aren't you using TikTok for your business? I'm like, well, don't spend time on TikTok. So I'm not going to. I'm going to use Instagram. It's the one that I, it's where I spend time.
Elena Blair: i already enjoy spending time there. So that's the one that I use. So I really recommend picking one, which sounds like it's Instagram that you're using. And focusing on that rather than and spreading yourself too thin.
leslie Fox: I thought I turned my phone off. I don't know. No. turned turn my phone off i don't know
Elena Blair: Okay. Nope. I thought it was mine. So using using one that you already spend time on is is where I would start.
leslie Fox: no
Elena Blair: And then as far as how often you should post, the cool thing about the algorithm is that it's actually working in your favor where...
Elena Blair: where it you can post something and it can get traction months later. Now, you do have to feed social media. It doesn't do that. You can't just, it's not like SEO. It won't just cook forever, but but it doesn't, it's not volume anymore.
Elena Blair: It did used to be. Like 10 years ago, you had to post every day to to get you know exposure.
leslie Fox: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: So it's quality over quantity.
leslie Fox: okay
Elena Blair: And so my most recent rule of thumb or the way that I i put content out is I have one idea three ways or one topic three ways. So if I was trying to book newborn sessions, for example, right now, I would post one carousel. So just, you know, 10 or 20 photos. And then with the caption, I would post one reel and I would post one story. um And that would be what I would do in that week.
Elena Blair: to to to get that type of content out.
leslie Fox: Okay.
Elena Blair: So um that's the minimum. I would say reel, one carousel, one story. And um it's just a good rule of thumb for me. I do that with and i i do that with my education content all the time.
Elena Blair: and I usually have two different concepts that I'm going with in that one week. So if I'm talking about mastermind and I'm talking about my school class, for example, I'll do one carousel about school, one reel about school, one story.
Elena Blair: One carousel about pop about mastermind, one reel about the mastermind, one story. And a lot of the reason I do that is because I think that you capture different concepts
leslie Fox: I'm through.
Elena Blair: consumers. Some people love reels. Some people never spend any time in the reels. Some people love the feed. Some people never spend time in the feed. So it captures all of those different types of consumers. But the other reason I do it like that too is then it allows me to analyze the content. So if I posted a carousel and a reel and a story about the same thing,
Elena Blair: I look at my analytics and I see which one is doing which one did the best. And don't reinvent the wheel. If you're like, you know what, my community really doesn't engage with with carousels. They love my reels. Well, then you might want to do more reels. So you have to kind of be your own social media scientist, your own social media analyst.
Elena Blair: And so that's what I would recommend. So I.
leslie Fox: So if you do a family photography shoot, would you just use that family as an example? And that would be a carousel reel and a story about that same family? are you talking just content?
Elena Blair: I'm talking just content.
leslie Fox: Like content?
Elena Blair: When when it comes to sharing um about my clients, sharing past shoots or whatever, I don't, in my business, share sneak peeks as a way of um marketing my business where I know some photographers who really feel passionate about doing that.
leslie Fox: Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: It's really, by the way, everyone, there is a hundred ways to do this, right? it's You got to figure out what works for you.
leslie Fox: the
Elena Blair: um I don't do that. So when I share, ah you know, a carousel from a family photo shoot, I'm talking about family photography in general and why I do what I do and connecting with them in general, rather than talking about that shoot.
leslie Fox: I see. I see. Okay.
Elena Blair: It really serves only that client when you talk about that shoot.
leslie Fox: Okay.
Elena Blair: You want to make it that a way to serve everybody.
leslie Fox: Okay. So it's more general, like you're taking a step back.
Elena Blair: Exactly. That's how I do it. But it's totally, you know, everyone's everyone's way of connecting is different.
leslie Fox: Okay.
Elena Blair: But if you, I would say experiment with that for just a few weeks, you know, doing one type, one subject three ways and then see which one does the best.
leslie Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Elena Blair: And if you notice... right now, and by the way, it will change. That's the thing with how people engage, things change. But if you're like, okay, right now I'm getting the most engagement from stories.
Elena Blair: Well, maybe I would say I'm going to post one feed post a week and a story every day, something like that. So I would change my, my I would focus my efforts on where I'm getting engagement. And that's really how social i'm trying social media is complicated. I could go on and on about it, but that's really how social media works. You want engagement And everyone's audience engages differently.
Elena Blair: And so there there is any someone someone who's teaching a class on social media is going tell you what they do is the way to do it.
leslie Fox: Hmm.
Elena Blair: Well, that's what's working for them, but it may not work for you and your audience. So you want to try all of the different ways of sharing content and see where you get the most engagement. And the next thing is that you want to encourage engagement.
Elena Blair: You have to ask for it. so Answer, you know, ask a question, um reply to this story with this word or share a link in the story to get them onto your blog, for example.
leslie Fox: Oh, okay.
Elena Blair: I want to encourage engagement. Yeah.
leslie Fox: Okay. um I posted my first reel and it was a picture of me that somebody took at the retreat. And I said it to music. and It took me quite a while because I've never done a reel, but I figured it out.
leslie Fox: I was very proud of myself. Anyways, I had like over, this is big for me, like over a thousand views and not everybody, they're not all followers.
Elena Blair: like him Amazing.
leslie Fox: So, you know, it's, I'm showing my age and I'm, I'm learning, you know, it's.
Elena Blair: There you go. that was That was you being your own Instagram analyst. So two things happened there. I'm going to give a big tip here to anyone who's listening.
Elena Blair: If you share a photo of yourself, whether it be in a story, on a carousel, or in a reel, or just one post,
leslie Fox: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elena Blair: It will get double, if not triple the engagement than when you share your clients. And everyone is like, mean, you probably remember when we talked about social media, I challenge everyone to do that. No one believes me. It is one of the only social media guarantees that I can make. And the reason I think, I mean, I'm just making a guess after doing this for 16 years, but we're all very disconnected from the creator.
Elena Blair: we're so we're there just looking at people's you know content or whatever and when you share a photo of yourself and um so and a personal story usually about your why what you're doing whatever there people are excited to see the actual creator and you just proved that fact right there that so if you're listening i would challenge you to today share a photo of yourself whether it be just a still photo of a real talking to camera and stories a photo of yourself and stories it will get more engagement It hands down.
leslie Fox: and
Elena Blair: But the next thing that I'll say is that just showed you, though, that for whatever reason, your algorithm, your your consumers are looking at reels. So now maybe try a different reel, like share a little behind the scenes like I would add a construction site, for example.
Elena Blair: That's such a unique perspective.
leslie Fox: Oh, okay.
Elena Blair: Share a little behind the scenes. It doesn't have to be complicated. reel can be just like a video with some text over it or whatever and see what happens because it but that.
leslie Fox: That's a great idea. That's a great idea.
Elena Blair: That was just information telling you, okay, my people that that are consuming are liking the reels. So now I'm going to make more. And and um by the way, like I already said, things change. So like for about...
Elena Blair: I don't know, 18 months or so, my carousels were popping off. People were engaging, resharing, a saving, whatever. And then in like the last four or five months, I don't know what happened. That engagement sort of dropped off and reels was really at reels and stories for me are getting the most engagement. I still share carousels because they're pretty and I want them on my feed. Like I want my work on my feed, but they don't get as much engagement as the other ones. So I just focus more effort there.
Elena Blair: So just think about
leslie Fox: So would you do a reel like construction site behind the scenes? yeah A reel is just one picture or more than one?
Elena Blair: A reel can be video, pictures, all it can be so many things.
leslie Fox: Okay. i'll kind And then set set to music with a little little bit of work.
Elena Blair: you don't even have You can talk over it too, it doesn't have to be music. Sometimes I don't use it.
leslie Fox: Okay. Yeah, i like I like that idea. Yeah. And maybe I'll take it next next time I do work for the magazine. I'll take it with me too for that.
Elena Blair: Yeah.
leslie Fox: Yeah. and so
Elena Blair: Instagram is really all about experimentation. there's not People will tell you that there's strategy behind it. I truthfully, after all these years, don't know if there really is because the algorithm changes so much.
Elena Blair: So my strategy for social media is the same as my strategy for um search engine optimization and email. What I want is engagement. So I want to create something that people actually want to read and consume.
leslie Fox: We have.
Elena Blair: And um when you do that, then they engage and reach out to you and become, you know, clients or whatever. So you just want to create that connection, create that engagement. And with social media, it really is just about being your own analyst. And I don't like sometimes something just totally flops and it doesn't mean you did anything wrong. It's just like, well, OK, that was information. Maybe I won't do that that way again. Maybe I'll tweak it next time. But it's just information.
Elena Blair: so
leslie Fox: and And did you say three times a week? Did you say three times a week?
Elena Blair: At a minimum, i ah yes, I would say at a minimum three times a week.
leslie Fox: or Okay.
Elena Blair: And I usually, i try to do it three different ways just so I can, yeah.
leslie Fox: Yeah. i yeah Yeah.
Elena Blair: Yep.
leslie Fox: Yeah. So, yeah.
Elena Blair: All right, Leslie. Well, I, um ah we went, it's already been a while.
leslie Fox: Are we done? Are we done already? have so much more to say to you.
Elena Blair: I know it's, it's Yeah, I've got it.
leslie Fox: Okay.
Elena Blair: I'm going to do another interview in like five minutes. but But I want you to tell everyone how they can find you. And we will definitely link to your website, which you should go check her website out because she got the courage to post it.
Elena Blair: So check your website out. But also um but um Instagram, where would you like people to find you? We'll put it in the show notes.
leslie Fox: My Instagram, it's at Leslie Fox Photography. And my website is LeslieFoxPhotography.com.
Elena Blair: Okay. All right, Leslie.
leslie Fox: Yeah. So anyways.
Elena Blair: Well, I think you're amazing and I'm so proud of you and I have just been lucky enough to call you and Karen.
leslie Fox: Thank you.
Elena Blair: Karen is her bestie that comes to all the events with her friend. I feel like you have become friends over the years and I'm excited. I hope you're planning on coming to Palm Springs again next year. That's where we're going to go.
leslie Fox: 100%. Yeah. And I, and I have told you before, since I am old enough to be your mom, but but I would help you if you ever needed my help with anything.
Elena Blair: Thank you. Fairly.
Elena Blair: I'm 43.
leslie Fox: I'm available.
Elena Blair: You're not that much. You're not that much older than me.
leslie Fox: I could be a teenage, whatever.
Elena Blair: Yeah. I don't think you're, I'm not that young. I'm actually, I'm getting to be older too.
leslie Fox: You are young. You're young too. Yeah.
Elena Blair: It would seem so.
leslie Fox: Anyways, yeah, i'm I'm like one of your biggest fans. I so admire you and what you've done with your career and your family. And I love knowing you. So thank you for this opportunity.
Elena Blair: Oh, thanks, Leslie.
leslie Fox: Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Elena Blair: Thanks. Well, admire you too. i think you're amazing. And thank you for all of the um of the work that you put into being a mentor and just for being such a positive light at the in-person events.
leslie Fox: Thank you.
Elena Blair: And it's just, we're really lucky to have you.
leslie Fox: Thank you. I appreciate that. All right.
Elena Blair: right.
leslie Fox: This was fun. All right, Elaine, I'll talk to you soon.
Elena Blair: Okay, that's fine. I'll talk to you soon.
leslie Fox: Okay.
Elena Blair: Bye.
leslie Fox: Bye.
