Transcript
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Speaker: Welcome to SMA Presents The Lounge. Whether you're in the student lounge, doctor's lounge, or lounging around at home, get ready to join SMA for meaningful conversations on topics affecting minorities in medicine and groups that often sit at the margins of healthcare.
Speaker: hi everybody. What's up? It's Dr. Kocha, Dumevio Kocha here, OB-GYN resident. um We're going to open up a little bit of an icebreaker here. um Our icebreaker is, what is your current obsession right now, your hyperfixation?
Speaker: I can probably start first if you want me to. Yeah. I'm thinking. minus Unfortunately, or i guess fortunately all things like wedding right now, flower prices, daisies versus this flower versus that flower. I've never cared about flowers. I don't have a single plant in my home, but that is the current thing right now. I would say wedding planning things. She said, all of you are lonely.
Speaker: I'm getting married. yeah I'm currently lonely right now. No one's here. yeah know um It's pretty funny. i actually was just a groomsman in a Nigerian wedding. And yes, I see the details mean everything.
Speaker: Everything. and I'll go next. How's it going, everybody? It is your boy, aspiring student, Dr. Jared Jeffrey. um As for me, my current hyperfixation has absolutely been both cooking and AI.
Speaker: Um, I have recently gotten my own spot. I am completely alone. my own kitchen. Nobody touches anything when I'm gone. Nobody eats anything but I'm away. It's amazing. And so I have real, and you know, I also, nobody sees when I, uh, mess up a recipe. So I have been trying to get a little bit more, uh,
Speaker: risque in terms of what I'll try, what I'll pick up in the grocery store and just trying to, you know, make sure like I buy a week's worth of things and I'm not throwing any of my produce away at the end. So it has been a journey, has been a journey.
Speaker: And then, um, AI just in general, i ah like the potential for the directions that AI can go um when put into the right hands, right? So it seems as if like it's one of those things where it's a tool and the the the use of the tool is determined by who's wielding it.
Speaker: So I want to become like a worthy wielder of it. Very good goal. Okay. One, have, before we move on, I got to say about the not wasting your produce.
Speaker: That's very serious. I've never not it's been able, I've never been able to do that. Like literally I throw away so much money. And then two, what's your favorite thing that you've made since you've been cooking more?
Speaker: Okay, so I have, so the the recipes have been centered around, you know, diet fitness and stuff like that. So I wanted to make chicken breasts in a way that is not dry.
Speaker: And, uh, and flavorful and something that I can palate frequently. So I came up with a jerk chicken breast recipe. It's nothing amazing.
Speaker: I marinate it for two days, put it back in the fridge. um When cooking, I put it in my air fryer. My air fryer has a lot of settings. I put it on roast for 40 minutes at 400 degrees and I flip halfway through.
Speaker: And somebody said this. This is the exact science. If you put it at a real high temperature, it cooks, but doesn't dry out. High temperature, but not too much time. It cooks, but it doesn't dry out. When you cut into that bad boy, it's still juicy.
Speaker: And I've been able to get it down a lot of chicken breast that way. Okay. Very nice. Very nice. Hi, everybody. um It's Dr. Samizam, surgery resident. um Okay.
Speaker: What's my... Do I have a current hyper fixation right now? i don't really know. I'm always hyper fixated on TV. I think the two shows that I watched and like binged were one, The Polygamist, which we don't have to get into that.
Speaker: But yeah, that show. Oh, you got you don't know that show? No, what is it on? So it's on Netflix. It's a South African show.
Speaker: I think I've heard. one. Yeah. It is not. It's scripted TV. And I always liked like you know foreign TV. It's definitely one of the things I get into. I've watched South African TV before. Shout out to Blood and Water. Yes, Blood and Water. I know about Blood and Water.
Speaker: Basically, the premise of this show is that this guy is like um just, let's say, like a business mogul. And him and his wife are like a power couple. but like he's cheating on her.
Speaker: and it's like kind of like, widely known to the wife, but she's still trying to keep up appearances. But it just goes on to so many twists and turns. Honestly. Lots twists. Lots of turns. Yes. It's absolutely ridiculous, to be quite honest. Right down to the very end. I'm going to write it down. Literally so ridiculous.
Speaker: So please just watch. um Yeah. It's interesting because obviously it's like South African and like obviously they're like speaking like the multiple languages that they speak there, but um like I've heard a lot of American people get into this. like So I don't know. It's it's taking the world by storm.
Speaker: So just watch it. I want to hear you guys' of thoughts later. And then, i don't know, I always love a good rom-com college drama show. So I also watched... Is it off campus? I think that's what it's called. Oh, yeah. That's good one.
Speaker: Yeah. So I'm sure you've seen little clips or whatever. Hey, it got a little wild too. I don't really know what was going on there for like half the show, but it was cute, kind of. Yeah, but very chaotic.
Speaker: So those are the two like shows I watched recently. And...
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know. This has been a hyper fixation for a while, but I love a good acai bowl. Wow. Like, but they it never gets old. We're really getting to know each other today. It never gets old. it never gets old. Wow. Like strawberries, whatever fruit you want to do Coconut is what I put on it.
Speaker: I personally can go between like a cookie butter, peanut butter, or Nutella, but I don't. You know how people like put it on there? no I went on the side. Okay.
Speaker: And it's very important to me to have it like basically frozen before I eat it. So whenever I get an Acai bowl, I actually don't eat it immediately. Oh.
Speaker: I have to like freeze it. It's a textural thing. Anyways. Got you. That's the end of my money hyper. i'm gonna going to throw throw one thing in then.
Speaker: Go ahead. I found a ramen spot next to my job. I love ramen. black in here i I had to pick up cooking so i stopped eating there. I'll eat there every day.
Speaker: ah yeah they they They see me. they They don't bring a menu anymore. They just... They know you want that Takasaku? they they know it They know exactly. oh my gosh. ah yeah yeah You know what? I'm literally a liar.
Speaker: That's my actual hyper fixation. I love ramen. I love pasta. No, but it's specific. noodles will do It's specific. Have you guys ever had the shin remun? Yes. Okay, you've had that. Yes. So this is what I've been doing, and it's been happening the last six months.
Speaker: hey I do that one, but the beef bone broth version. Yes. Then i like got obsessed and said, I need to make the jammy eggs at home. Okay. So I've been doing a jammy egg, seven minutes, you boil it, whatever.
Speaker: e he um And then, you know, the little Trader Joe's ah like pot sticker things or like the yo's, I put that in there, yeah put it all together. And then they're like fewer.
Speaker: I don't know. It's something green spice seaweed thing that you can also get. Yes. Yes. Yeah. you We got ramen at the house. Yes, we have ramen at home. We have ramen at home.
Speaker: I love it. i I know the word. i just didn't want to say it wrong. so i knew Y'all know what I'm talking about, though. Feewee, sesame seeds. You can get it from the bottom. hey All right. Sorry. amount yeah don't Don't be. don't be I feel so much better now.
Speaker: and Oh, wow. Right now. Okay, well, it's time to introduce everybody's favorite portion of the show, Run the List.
Speaker: For our preclinical students, running the patient list on the wars allows the team to address pressing matters of the day. In this segment of the show, we'll be discussing some recent events in medicine and beyond affecting our communities, as well as the populations we serve.
Speaker: Let's get into it, everybody. And this first topic is going to be a doozy. we are going to be opening up talking about the Nolan Wells case. And before we say anything about this case, I do want to put a disclaimer out there that right now this case is an active and open investigation. So everything that we are going to be saying will be speculation, not established fact.
Speaker: um And we will be reporting on what we do know and then kind of trying to fill in bits and pieces and see what the community at large has been saying with regards to the conversation.
Speaker: um So the Nolan Wells story, this story captured national attention because it sits at the intersection of tragedy, unanswered questions, as well as public trust.
Speaker: uh, 18 year old, Nolan Xavier Wells disappeared after a July 4th trip to the, to the lake with his friends. He went on a boat trip to Horn Island, um, somewhere off of the coast of the miss of the, the Mississippi Gulf coast.
Speaker: Um, um,
Speaker: And he was later found dead. Investigators continue to say that no file blade has been identified and the investigation remains ongoing. The case has sparked larger conversations about transparency, race and public confidence within investigations.
Speaker: So two major details that um have drawn the nation's eye to this case is that one. Nolan was the only black boy on the trip. He was one of four boys, one black, three white.
Speaker: And the other thing is that he was found dead. However, there was no foul play found by the sheriff's office after they completed an investigation.
Speaker: Moving forward, the um his mother, mother took to social media to spread awareness about the case and has been, ah receiving an influx of support from various people throughout the black community.
Speaker: Um, mostly because there have been similar situations to this one in the past. One that immediately comes to mind is Tamala Horsford from 2018. Um, and this is almost like a direct comparison of the situation.
Speaker: This was a black individual that was out with a predominantly white social group. um There was a tragedy that occurred. The family questioned the investigation that happened and the public demanded transparency on the case.
Speaker: Um... Since this case has happened, there have been lots of black leaders stepping forward to support the family. um Ben Crump is representing the family.
Speaker: Reverend Al Sharpton has been making appearances with them. He was at the funeral as well as press conferences. Tyler Perry paid for funeral expenses. Colin Kaepernick has helped to fund the independent autopsy.
Speaker: And Terrell Owens has added to the reward fund for anybody that has information. um So rather than trying to sit here and debate facts of a case that, you know, facts are not present of, I would rather ask you guys. ah
Speaker: How do you think the investigation that happened affected ah public confidence within the police system?
Speaker: um I think, and maybe i don't know if you wanted to go. you of course i was just going to say that I think, and I don't know, this could be just a personal opinion.
Speaker: i don't know how much of the Black and brown people in this country, i don't know how many people still had confidence in the, um and like I guess, the due process of like investigation and everything. i personally wouldn't expect to have like a really fair investigation of this. And I mean i think a lot of us are just really jaded. We've seen, what, I'm 30 now.
Speaker: at least since I was like in high school. It's been like back to back to back to back to back cases of people not getting their due process or not getting a fair shake in court themselves. Or if they are victims, they're not getting investigated properly and their people that harm them in some way, shape, or form don't necessarily get any sort of repercussions for their actions. So,
Speaker: i don't want it I don't think it's shaking confidence because I don't think there's any confidence to shake is basically what I'm saying. um I think it's sad. i think people don't want it to continuously happen again. You kind of hope that somebody else's family isn't sad again. But I don't know if you could say anyone was really surprised that this would happen. We literally just talked about how there's almost like a direct corollary with like a woman that was older and that happened what?
Speaker: like six years ago or like eight years ago, eight years ago. So it's literally the same thing. It's just a different person and another family hurt. Um, but yeah, I don't think it changed my confidence. I, I never, I didn't have any confidence I think for a long time now. And I think that's a common sentiment in a lot of people in a lot of different communities. So that's how I feel about it.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree with that as well. i think um I think largely what this case kind of shows, I mean, i mean, I don't want to make it like personal or anything like that and or say things were done wrong when there's not a lot of evidence in place. But I feel like I grew up in very, you know, like similar environments, like being like the only black kid amongst like a group of white friends. And what and I'm not saying like his mother didn't tell him this or that. But I think it's just kind of like an important thing to kind of.
Speaker: maybe reiterate is that, you know, like, yes, these are your friends. i mean, you don't assume anyone will do harm to you, but you have to recognize that kind like your position in a space that you're within. um and unfortunately, this case kind of highlights that. um So I think, you know, especially when, you know,
Speaker: You have kids and you always want the best for them and you want them to be in like great environments. Unfortunately, a lot of these great environments put us still at a disadvantage of being like the minority in a group or so. um So I would say that's like, again, like what Samisa says, just like there was no confidence in that system because even as a child myself,
Speaker: my mom always kind of warned me, you know, about like, you know, you can have friends and then they're your true friends and then how you you should interact with these said friends and how you exist in that certain space. Like, of course, be friends with everybody, but also be cautious. And I think it's unfortunate that as like a...
Speaker: Black kid, you have to, like, always have that reiterated to you. And I, unfortunately, this story just kind of supports that for, you know, from whatever that happened, allegedly, you know, so it's unfortunate.
Speaker: um So and one last fact that I wanted to add is that ah since this case has gained national attention, the FBI is stepping in.
Speaker: They're doing their own independent investigation and they're looking at digital media to digital evidence to kind of put together a timeline of events and things that happened um within the within the situation.
Speaker: Do you guys think that pressure from social media and pressure from the case being publicized is what forced them to step in? i think so. Yeah. I mean, I think.
Speaker: things like this need answer regardless of who it is, no matter what graphic it looks like, but it just seems to be that a disproportionate amount of people that um look like us always don't have answers to these type of cases. So I'm glad that getting highlighted so that we can, you know, see what's going on. And I, I just kind of want justice to be served again. I don't want to claim things that are not proven yet because I definitely don't think that's fair, you know, but Definitely we need answers for whatever happened because it is strange that group of friends go to a place and everyone leaves except one person. you know go yeah That needs to be answered for in some shape or form. Definitely. definitely and you know I think it's one of those things where like you know um especially as a parent, right you can kind of tell when story doesn't add up. You can tell when it seems like there's a piece missing.
Speaker: The investigator said there was no foul play. Um, but then the details around the case might suggest otherwise. It's Mississippi, it's three white boys and one black boy.
Speaker: Everybody's under the age of 20. Um, it just leaves a little bit more to be desired if, if there's going to be like, you know, real peace and putting the story to rest, you know what i'm saying Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And I mean, even right now, like, I think new details came out about the independent autopsy and you can read more about that in terms of like, you know, what they think is ah like what was missing from, you know, the body and everything that they got in their own autopsy. But I think more so it's just,
Speaker: One is just overall really, really sad case because at the end of the day, there's an 18-year-old who basically his life was cut short when they didn't have to because he was out with friends, right? And we don't know what happened from that. And like we're kind of trying to piece together things after things have been sort of already messed with and defiled. And now you're trying to piece together a story. And I think...
Speaker: Yes, obviously we you know love that Colin Kaepernick was able to fund this independent autopsy. But if you read this article, they're like, basically they can't tell anything different because you already had an autopsy hey and things get changed, right? Like if you're not the first person seeing a body after it's you know um after someone has passed away, like you're not getting the full story. So again, it just leads to the there was never any confidence to begin with. And even if you do have the guise of like, here, here's your own ability to have an investigation on your own.
Speaker: It's not going to be the same because it wasn't the initial response. Right. And that's just truth. So overall prayers out to his entire family. I'm so sorry that they're going through this on a national stage because that's horrible.
Speaker: Right. to have that And this is how your loved one, and your very young loved one is now being remembered. He's now, Just like another link on this chain of really sad stories. Yeah. So.
Speaker: yeah
Speaker: Yeah. So just praise for his family. And if you guys want to, we can just have a moment of silence for him too. Just because at the end of the day, a young black man lost his life. Definitely.
Speaker: And we can debate the facts all we want, but that's, that is the real fact. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, now onto something also very heavy as well. um But our next topic is about UW and their class action lawsuit. um So it's really centered around two plaintiffs, Dr. Dorander Gray, who was a former OB-GYN resident, and Dr. Tami Ogunlehe, that's how I'm going to say that his name is pronounced, and he was a former orthopedic resident at Harborview.
Speaker: um So just to sort of talk about their two cases, they basically brought up a class action lawsuit against the Washington Physicians Health Program um and want to represent everybody who went through that program from 2015 to now.
Speaker: So this like program basically is almost like from my what I gathered is like almost like a rehabbing slash corrective program that residents or physicians can go through should they have any sort of complaints or demerits like on their, um, on their record. And so they are kind of the first, um,
Speaker: Program put into place, like if there's any sort of issues with a resident. um So both of the plaintiffs in this case said that they were referred to WPHP by their supervisors after they had struggles in their job performance and mental health. And then they had to complete these evaluations by the WPHP preferred ah providers. providers.
Speaker: So they thought that the psychological evals that they got when they were, you know, um referred to this program were literally just like wrong and they were riddled with errors. And then one of them even said that the report that they got from this entity was for a different patient entirely.
Speaker: And even though they went through this entire, you know, program and, you know, corrective um response, they were not clear to go back to work. Now, neither of these plaintiffs still work at UW or any sort of University of Washington-affiliated facilities.
Speaker: um And the group, WPHP, is seeking dismissal because they're saying that state law grants immunity to physicians um health and monitoring programs.
Speaker: And they think that the claims that the plaintiffs have against them are without merit, in even though they're expressing compassion for the plaintiffs. But you know they have like the actual like court proceedings. um But literally, ah Dr. Ogunleye apparently was like, you know he did well, intern year, second year came, and he just was like struggling and like was late to work.
Speaker: And you know that was one of the things that got him referred to the program. and But he was like, I want to get back to being an ortho resident. This is like something that I really want to do, so like let me comply. and seems like he complied, and they evaluated him. And at one point, it looks like they said that he had like buts and a serious like neurocognitive disorder.
Speaker: like Basically, almost like it seems like in the vein of like dementia. Now, I'm pretty sure this person... was a former ortho resident.
Speaker: I don't think that that's something that he would have. However, like, this is basically kind of what they're fighting against. Um, and yeah they like risked it listed the wrong date of birth, his wrong age, his right. Like, I mean, wrong hand dominance and didn't mention anything about him. Like,
Speaker: and his ADHD diagnosis, which he acknowledges he has. That's not anything that was written in his report. So he's like, how can this basically relate to me? And there it has nothing to do with anything that is like me. And Dr. Gray kind of says the similar sort of situation and that they also like set her for testing, like for drug and alcohol, but that was never like one of their, um like the original complaints against her. So both of them are saying that this entity, the WPHP,
Speaker: PHP just seems like a faulty organization. So why is this organization sort of holding them back from being able to work?
Speaker: So I guess my question for you guys is like, One, maybe I guess you can answer this. um You don't have to come on if you don't want to. are there sort of like corrective programs like in your institution that you know about? And do we actually think that as a whole corrective programs for physicians are,
Speaker: are actually useful or is it more just like punitive and it doesn't necessarily allow the physician to make mistakes and like sort of like come back from whatever mistakes they've made?
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. um i think I think every... for the most part, every residency should have some process like that. I know we do. I don't know the correct name for it. And honestly, I've never really looked into it too much, but I think we do have one. That's what the GMU told us that we have something like that. I know for like for physicians who struggle with like drug abuse or, you know, alcoholism, whatever, tobacco, like there's like different like programs that you can join for that. I think um in terms of are these programs beneficial? I think,
Speaker: on paper they seem beneficial, but I think the actuality of it is that they seem more punitive because they put it on your record. And, you know, ah anyway, like being a black resident is hard in general. I think we face ah more um scrutiny than our other counterparts, um though we are now,
Speaker: in these spaces more correct I think that they are not able to retain us as properly um so I find this whole thing like very frustrating for Dr. Gray and all the other doctors involved because you know I feel like as a person of color as a black man a black woman you are held to a completely different standard than your peers and you are under so much scrutiny and you know you don't get as much grace like who hasn't been late to work you know like who hasn't overslept who doesn't have 80 i mean i don't have adhc but who doesn't have adhd you know what i mean like it's just kind of unfair that things that everyone else goes through yet we are being um
Speaker: you know, held to like this higher standard at like marked rates. It's very strange. Like they have like the big DI thing after COVID, all these DI initiatives and this like that. And then we all come to these places and then you can't even retain us because of, you know, improper um processes, you know? So um yes, my program definitely does have these things. um Whether or not they're actually beneficial, I don't know, but I,
Speaker: I feel kind of strongly about this, especially because like I'm an OBGYN resident. Dr. Gray's an OBGYN resident. And it's definitely not easy. um And yeah, I've had overall like a good experience in residency. But you know I'm tried to probably two times more than my counterparts. you know And I think that's like the frustrating thing. And I have to hold my head and I have to be professional when sometimes I just want to crash out. you know But I can't do that, right? Because I would be called unprofessional or this or that. You know yeah know, it's these programs should be helpful, but they're not.
Speaker: And we can see it firsthand and I've seen it firsthand, too. They're not. helpful i i think there's something interesting about this program. um um Do maybe i ask you yours. Is it in-house or is it a contractor?
Speaker: I don't know. actually don't know if it's in-house or it's a contractor. OK, because this one. my contract I don't know. Yeah, this one I'm noticing, that's what struck out to me rather. It's a nonprofit contractor of the Washington State Department of Health.
Speaker: That means that it's, you know, somebody that's getting a check um and they're supposed to ah support and,
Speaker: I don't know, improve performance of physicians. But, you know, physicians have all these regulatory bodies that ensure they're practicing properly. Does an entity like this have any regulatory body making sure that they're keeping ah keeping things on the up and up? You know what i'm saying? Because everything that was mentioned in this story just sounds like bad work practice. you know, this sounds like a normal employee improvement plan kind scenario.
Speaker: But it seems like they're like judge and jury, which is not really how, you know, it has to be like, they should get this evaluation, but it should be like more of a holistic evaluation from the team to determine if somebody cannot progress or has to be removed from residency. It's just like, it's a monoly you know essentially a monopoly on someone's life. You know what I mean? Exactly. Yep. Yep.
Speaker: insane. i don't know. And it's one of those kinds of things where like it's it's like a systemic ah ah potential pitfall where if you get sent down that road, it's taken out of your hands. Yeah, it's taken out of your hands if you can get out or not. Yeah, you literally cannot get off that road. And that's where like that's where I had the issue too. Sorry, Samiz, I'll let you talk in a minute. Sorry, sorry, sorry. But my thing is the problem with remediation and residency is once you're on that road, they will not get off of you. They literally will not get off of you. And I think that's the problem here, too. It's like you make one mistake or, you know, you had one setback, interneer, whatever. They are on you until you leave that place. And I i feel like if you are a resident,
Speaker: in this situation and you're at a program where you don't feel supported is best. What I've learned from whole case is best that you leave before they tell you to leave because it's easier for you to find a program when you leave on your own terms and go find ah somewhere outside the match with an open spot, whatever, another specialty, and you leave in good academic standing before they come and get you.
Speaker: And then you can't, now you're under their mercy, now you have to follow their plan, that doesn't make any sense. Or they boot you with poor academic standing. So now another residency is not gonna pick you up. yeah So if anything, you know, if you're learning from this case is that you have to be proactive with yourself. No one cares more about yourself than you do.
Speaker: Like believe it or not. You know, like, especially when you you look like us and you come from our background, like there's too much riding on this type of, you know, like. Yeah. impacts you and impacts your family impacts where you want to go to fellowship next and it impacts like your income in the next like it's yeah like don't just sit down it impacts your entire life direction don't sit down and be lay ball when this type of stuff is happening to you when you feel like your program is on your butt
Speaker: it's time to go and that and i will and i'll just say luckily i love my program and you know i'll just say that for record i do love my program no one's on my butt the day you try to get on my butt i'm gone and that's just what it is i'm out because i see what you've done to others and you're not gonna do it to me that's yeah no i agree just literally You said it perfectly. you if you are If this is happening to you, the best thing you can do for yourself is not be a witness to your own life and take control. Take the reins, do whatever you have to do, find whatever mentor you have that is not this program that's mandated for you, and let them tell you the real and let them sort of help you navigate your next steps because It it is a slippery s slope. I mean, think about it. Literally, this it works the same way in any sort of season of life. If you are already on a downward trend, especially in a high-pressure environment, it's going to be very hard to not only stop the downward trend, but then to come back up. that is going That's incredibly difficult. That's so literally not how life works. get a Momentum exists.
Speaker: yeah Right. So it's going to be really hard to stop it. And it's going to be really hard to come back up. People have done it, but it's rarer than you think. So in order to just not continue the downward trajectory in the same spot, maybe have to pivot and do another thing. um And that could be a different program, a different, you know, residency all in altogether. But overall, i think,
Speaker: Sometimes these programs, and we've seen it in like you know TV too. like Think about the pit and my boy coming back a year after you know you know being forced to take classes. like He's proven himself. He's a senior. right like He knows what he's doing in the ED. But nobody is like trusting him because now you've had like a break in confidence. Yeah.
Speaker: so I think in theory, it's supposed to be less punitive, but it ends up not being that way. um And that's really unfortunate because this is hard. We are all deciding to dedicate our lives to it. We give up most of our 20s and early 30s for this, if not you know multiple decades. And this is sort of, it it it just perpetuates the message that you can't make a mistake, which shouldn't be the case, but is usually the case.
Speaker: Yeah. Well said. Yeah, I would say things that maybe are beneficial, but unfortunately, like, maybe...
Speaker: i feel i feel bad for having to say this, but um when you're showing up for your intern year, especially when you are a person of color, I feel like you just got to be on. And that's just kind of what it is. And call me whatever you want to call me, but you have to be on because people are looking at you so much harder than your other counterparts. Even it's a loving, supportive environment and everyone's fun and, you know, whatever, everyone gets along, but they're still like – like unintentional or intentional bias, right? So you have to be on you can't be the la-di-da girl. You gotta be on, you gotta be on time. Cause like they can give you more grace if you're late one day, cause they know you that you're an on-time person. So if you peg yourself as just being always late, it doesn't matter what happened that you were actually like They're just gonna see you as a late person. So,
Speaker: Paint yourself of how you want to be seen the first couple of months of intern year so that when things are not going right, like, you know, your mood or you're going through something personal, people can maybe have more grace for you. I will say that, like, unfortunately, it's all about adaptability and kind of rolling the punches. And, you know, that's all I got to say.
Speaker: Yeah. You only get one chance to make a first impression. Yes. And make it a ah really good one. Yeah. And when it's only one, two, three, four of us, right? And that's ah that's really a lie, especially if it's not a big program.
Speaker: You notice. You can't hide. it got so bad. Like, so bad. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Off the soapbox.
Speaker: In another vein, this is also another one that gets me hot. Oh, my God. Anyway, so there is um a doctor that I follow on TikTok. Her name is Dr. um Julia Carter. She's um an internal medicine hospitalist. um And she posted kind of a video that, I mean, maybe should have been left in the drafts, but kind of needed to be said about how when she was on a train going to, like, another place, um a man on the train had a medical emergency, And so they ask on the trains, they're like a doctor, like healthcare professional, you know, on board. So she goes to the scene where um the man is and there's um a nurse.
Speaker: um And then she's trying to evaluate the patient. She's asking the patient, like, you know, their symptoms and everything like that. And the nurse kind of says, stop, I'm a nurse, I got this. So this kind of led Dr. Carter to go on kind of like this rant about what is with the tension between doctors and nurses. And then she also kind of talked about how like,
Speaker: there's like this new culture that she's seeing now, like being in attending hood, that it feels like the nurses want to be more independent and say, Oh, we don't need doctors. We got this. And she felt like if she has the doctor pulled the hierarchy of like, I'm a doctor, you move over. Cause like, she's a nurse that she would be looked at it as a certain type of way. um And then so there was like some reaction videos and things like that. And There are some nurses that commented, i'm actually follow like some of these nurses on social media too, about um basically disagreeing with Dr. Carter um and saying that she sounded very uppity and, you know, like basically just like kind like discounting her feelings in this situation. um
Speaker: So it kind of led me to think about many different things, especially like me being a resident as well. And like, i deal a lot with nurses, obviously on a daily basis, like on labor and delivery and on gyne and the OR. And kind of how, you know, I've had some situations too. Like one, I love nurses. I think they make our jobs 10 times easier as physicians. But there's always that one nurse that just wants to try you. um Always. um And I feel like sometimes it's a bit disproportionate. Like me being a young black female doctor, sometimes I get stuff that my white male
Speaker: residents in my white male lower levels or my white male attendings may not get that type of smoke, but they always want to try me in particular. um So with that being said, what do you guys think about this video?
Speaker: um And what are your thoughts? That's basically my question.
Speaker: I have so much to say, but I'm gonna let you go first. I have have much less to say, so gonna go first. Um,
Speaker: It's one of those things where it's
Speaker: under pressure. How do you show up? Right. um It seems to me in this scenario.
Speaker: Under pressure, she kind of just didn't. you know, open it up to be a teamwork atmosphere. It was kind of just like, okay, well I'm here and, you know, it's time for me to save the day.
Speaker: And while I think that's like, all right, it leaves, don't know, it leaves a lot to be desired in terms of like actual patient care.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: saying from that, from Dr. Carter's perspective or from the nurse's perspective? um From the nurse's perspective. and nurse the The nurse showed up trying to, you know, be the end all be all.
Speaker: And
Speaker: the scenario just didn't call for that, you know? h Yeah.
Speaker: i agree. Okay.
Speaker: Hmm. How do I want to phrase this? So i think it's it because I, my parents were both registered nurses, crit care nurses. i have a friend from COS, also a crit care nurse. She's now, you know, trans, becoming like an NP.
Speaker: A lot of nurses that I respect, right? Right.
Speaker: I think as a lower level trainee that is a resident doctor, there is a significant amount of disrespect that is allowed to slide just under the guise of I've been here longer equals I am more.
Speaker: hu And I think what people fail to understand is that overall the training is different. right it's It's a different type of training.
Speaker: right Very early hands-on training in nursing school right versus a lot of art the trait the bulk of early training in med school is you are in the books and you're trying to figure out almost at a molecular or cellular level what is going on.
Speaker: right And it causes that the thinking is different. Right? So when it comes to now, everybody's in the clinical space, it can get really testy because you have experience fighting like deep deep knowledge that is trying to come out to the surface, right?
Speaker: And i am not sure why there has been almost like this allowed disrespect of like junior trainees. And I think it's almost worse in surgical and surgical subspecialties.
Speaker: It's like incredibly disrespectful. And I don't really know why everybody's letting it slide, but it's it's so rude sometimes. Like it's just, you're sitting there and you're like trying to honestly help them do their job because what people fail to realize if you don't teach the intern, if you don't teach the second year, whatever year, how to do something, eventually you won't have somebody that could put in the orders that you were able to do your job.
Speaker: Like you literally have to train them, especially if you are in a training institution so that they can be better. Right. So like that doesn't tend to happen. So in this scenario,
Speaker: It's kind of like a weird flip because usually in the hospital, especially if it's like an attending versus, you know, somebody else on a junior level, like the the roles are going to be clearly defined. Like it would never really occur like this, that a nurse would respond basically kind of dismissively to an attending.
Speaker: Because it's just clear, like, obviously, like they know more, right? Here, it's almost like her usual, ah i guess, reaction to the scenario like this that she's going to do what she does. And this is her actual reaction, right? Like, if it was, a like, this is probably how she would react to a resident coming to help her.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. It's just that now it's in attending. So now we're talking about it and it's out loud. And it's a hospitalist who like probably has to respond to things like this all the time. Like responds to codes. So it's just crazy. But I think it just brings up a larger conversation of one, the kind of fraught relationship but that can happen between nursing and residents.
Speaker: And I don't think it needs to be like that. um And then two, just like, you know, like you were saying, sort of like assess the situation. Yes, you are helping, but is there other people that can help?
Speaker: yeah And that's kind of what it boils down boils down to, too, even when you talk about the nurse and resident versus attending help. The resident can help. The resident went to school to try to help with this situation.
Speaker: o Right. Same thing with you. You went to school. You've been working. You can help with this situation. It's not about, you know, this and you have this experience and you've done this. It's OK. Every there is a problem. How do we fix it?
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like even on, you know, labor and delivery. I love a good delivery where, you know, I'm there, you know, my chief or an intern is there. There's a a good, strong labor and delivery nurse who knows all the different, you know, positions. like i don't I've never even labored before in my life, right? So I'm not going to tell you how to labor. All I can know is like, I'm about to catch this baby. But the nurse who's been there for 20 years knows all the good positions. She knows you can labor on your back, on your side. She knows like, oh, I'm goingnna start pit at this. You know, like that's what I enjoy, like a good collaborative network. We all have different skill sets. You know, we all bring different things to the table, you know, in different health professions. And I feel we should all utilize our strengths. The issue that I have,
Speaker: is when people try to encroach on my strengths that I went to school for. I don't encroach on your strengths. I don't put in IBs. don't know how to do that. I don't pull lines. I don't know how to do that either. you know I stick to what I know, which is the books.
Speaker: you know and and that And what I'm taught in residency is what I know how to do. When you're trying to encroach on that, that's when I have the issue. Stay in your line of work and I'll let you do your thing. I don't tell nurses what to do. I don't tell their nurses their scope of practice. I don't tell them how to run fluids. That's on you. All I know is that I'm putting this order of fluids and y'all tell me how to run it.
Speaker: That's just what it is. Because like, that's not my scope. You know what I mean? So I think if everyone just kind of stayed in their lane and asked pertinent questions to help their role, it would be a lot better instead of all this tension and back and forth.
Speaker: You know, Dr. Okocha, that same line of thinking would have really worked out well for America's 250th birthday. You know?
Speaker: Everybody staying in their lane, doing what they do best, and understanding the scope of their role. ah Just because...
Speaker: America's 250th birthday turned out to be a folly. Folly is crazy. For those of you who know or may not know, whatever the case may be, on July 4th, 2026, the United States celebrated 250 years since becoming a country. It's our 250th birthday as a nation.
Speaker: In 2015, team was put together that was supposed to spend the next decade making sure that there was going to be celebrations at the city, state, county, federal level across the nation.
Speaker: They were given a huge budget. They were going to have artists perform a bunch of simultaneous celebrations of America. it was a nonpartisan group. It had all kinds of people in it. And Trump took office and completely gutted that team. He gutted the team.
Speaker: He changed it from ah Freedom 250 to America 250 and effectively tried to make it like a celebration that was like about him.
Speaker: um He gutted the budget. A lot of people that were saying he moved the entire celebration to like the White House lawn, the White House lawn and the the reflecting pool and stuff. My man tried to ah have artists come perform. People would say, yeah, oh yeah, cool, I'll come ill perform. And it turned out to be a whole situation of, oh wait, this isn't that original thing that that I was told about years ago?
Speaker: Oh yeah, I'm good. And I'm not sure if you guys have seen the footage, but it turned out to be like small festival vibes. One of the like most abysmal ah kind of just
Speaker: I'm to go as far as to say embarrassing, embarrassing displays of a celebration for the country, especially considering we are hosting the World Cup at the time. And so like the whole world is here.
Speaker: um Yeah, nothing really to dwell on there. um I guess this if I had to come up with a question for you guys, it was like, it would just be like, after 250 years,
Speaker: Would it have... Do you think, like, a true nonpartisan team would have been able to put together a valid celebration? Do you think they would have been able put together something worth watching, worth attending, worth ah worth showing up to?
Speaker: I'm not going hold you. I didn't know anything about this. So that's number one. Like, this whole stuff. I now that is say boy is exactly mean mean know i don't I don't think it is. I don't think it's you.
Speaker: But yeah, total that that showed it was Fox was was Fox. Yeah, I didn't know anything about this. But overall, if the parties are as they are now and we're saying that that was a bipartisan effort that was going to put together a celebration. No, because they can't get anything done. So simple, short answer to that. If the party is how it is now, even if they had had a bipartisan effort, it would not have gone well.
Speaker: come Yeah, it's too cringy to talk about. like I saw the clips. I was know it like, is this is so yuck. was looking for the perfect i was looking go put the perfect word.
Speaker: Cringy is the perfect word. was gross. I was like, okay, next. like Every time I saw clips, was like, oh, I feel bad for America. and i was just like i Yo, I feel bad for America, yo. 250 years, you can't even get it right. What's going Oh my gosh. he wasn't a great me And and not not for nothing, um somebody was like, you know, presenting the case on like how bad this one was.
Speaker: um And a person at my job was telling me that the one they in 1976 the year was crazy. the two hundredth year was crazy People were going, there was parades in like every city.
Speaker: bar You couldn't stop the fireworks. I think everybody just basically like, like didn't go to work for two days afterwards because it was such a grandiose celebration. Like, yeah. um But yeah, I don't want to dwell on it.
Speaker: You know, happy birthday, America. Imagine not being the birthday on your birthday. That's amazing.
Speaker: I'm so sad. Oh, man. Why not the birthday America? day Well, on to something that we actually can celebrate.
Speaker: it So basically... um ah there's been new advancements in like the treatment for sickle cell disease. And so we wanted to kind of highlight stem cell donation and um the new gene therapy um that's been put into play. um So right now, CasGavi, which I'm not even going to get into its full name, its government name, but it's a CRISPR-Cas9.
Speaker: gene editing um situation. And then LifeGenia, again, also not going to get into her um her government name, but they're the first FDA approved gene therapies for sickle cell disease. and They were originally approved back in 2023.
Speaker: Like I said, CasGavi is a CRISPR-Cas9 gene therapy, and basically you edit the patient's blood stem cells and... You can always go back to talking about hemoglobin, but it boosts your fetal hemoglobin, in which you know that you get a lot of oxygen, and that prevents the sickling. yeah there A lot. Just know, instead of it being sickle shaped, ah like how it is in sickle cell disease, you now are basically kind of producing the sort of hemoglobin that would allow you to get more oxygen to the red blood cells and therefore prevent the crises that we all know um and hate.
Speaker: um And then it uses the patient's own cells. So it eliminates the need for like a matched um donor or transplant search. So this that's the really big thing. um You're basically kind of eliminating another person needing to be in the equation. Yeah.
Speaker: At the beginning of this month, actually, on July 1st, they expanded Cascavi's approval down to children as young as age 2. Previously, it was 12. So that's obviously like a major um impact. um And actually, I'm down here in Louisiana. There was a man that was basically functionally cured of sickle cell disease using this. He was treated at a children's hospital associated with the hospital that I work at. So It's really cool that you know you can kind of see a real world effect of it. The main thing that's sort of the drawback is that obviously cost is a barrier. Right now, Cascavi costs $2.2 million per patient.
Speaker: And Lifetime $3.1 million. is three point one um So right now they're trying to kind of create, you know, better access models to try to figure out like things with Medicaid and a bunch of states, DC and Puerto Rico are participating to try to get, you know, more coverage for um this therapy. um But that's just going to be the major problem. Like, yes, we have this great new treatment. However, how in the world are the people that actually suffer from the disease going to afford it? um And I guess one, I guess, how do you guys feel about, you know, something that is obviously has impacted a lot of people in the black community? How do you feel about it having like an actual like treatment that could essentially cure it And then i guess what are your thoughts and comments on how expensive it is?
Speaker: I mean, this is all great. I like, i remember learning about CRISPR back in undergrad and genetics. I'm like, Oh God, like this again, you know, I'm not understanding, but now I'm seeing it has like practical purposes. So I'm grateful that I learned about CRISPR, I guess. I don't know. um It's unfortunate that it's so expensive, but you know what's cheaper? It's like screening is cheaper, you know? So like if you, you know, are black or even a spicy white, Italian, Mediterranean, whatever, you have every right to carry the sickle cell gene, okay? A spicy white, because everyone thinks that we're the only ones who get sickle cell. No, the Mediterranean, the Italians, they're getting sickle cell too. Thalassemias exist. Yeah. And the thalassemias, the hemoglobin Cs, all those things. like So you can get a hemoglobinopathy test you know when you're pregnant, even before you're pregnant, to see, are you a carrier of sickle cell? Your partner can get a hemoglobinopathy test to see if they're a carrier of sickle cell.
Speaker: And with that, you can do as you choose. you know In the Nigerian community, it's a big deal to know your carrier status. um Yes. Yes. you know is i'm Sorry, this is an aside.
Speaker: I've been hearing about that. like you so Sorry, this this this this is just a random aside. But there is basically a Nigerian version of Pop the Balloon. And every time they talk to each other, they're like, I'm h b whatever.
Speaker: Yes. And do with that as you choose. You know, like if you are both carriers of sickle cell, you have a 25% chance of having a child a child with like with sickle cell disease. Now, when you are pregnant, shameless plug, you know, you can get a test, a blood test to see if your baby has sickle cell disease as well. I won't like promote the company or whatever because that's not what it's about, but there are cell-free DNAs that you can get to test if your baby has sickle cell while in utero. Does that change the fact that the baby has sickle cell? No. Does it, you know, can you get any like interuterine prevention? for No. But I think knowledge is power. And if you love somebody that, you know, you're a carrier sickle cell and your partner's a carrier sickle cell and you have $15,000 to spend on IVF and a couple more thousand dollars to spend on gene selecting to see which ones have sickle cell disease and don't have sickle cell disease. I think that is a lot cheaper than going through all this medication. So yes, though there is treatment for sickle cell, I think we should all use our free will wisely. And I say that just because I have family members with sickle cell and they're suffering, you know, and yes, there's a lot of new novelty therapies and things like that, but they suffer and, you know,
Speaker: So it's, I just think being educated and going to like a genetic counselor and things like that is super important when thinking about conceiving with somebody, you know, so I know Steve's carrier status.
Speaker: I know my carrier status. I think it's just something important because doing it on purpose, cool, but having the knowledge of how children with sickle disease suffer is truly important. So.
Speaker: Very well said. um Lab tech here. Shameless plug. Hemoglobin S test. Go to your doctor, order it. That's the exact name and you will know your carrier status.
Speaker: um I also know my status, by the way. um
Speaker: ah e so i'm on the I share the same sentiment as you do, maybe. um I think that it's great that the the care exists, but such a high barrier makes it extremely tough.
Speaker: um However, I will present an alternative view that... because it exists, because it costs a lot now, hopefully 10 years, 15 years down the line, the cost of treatment can go, can get lower.
Speaker: They can find cheaper ways to execute these things. Um, that's part of the reason why I'm interested in AI. Hopefully that, you know, um, Some way, somehow, I don't know exactly what it would be, but I feel like the intersection of new technologies just usually yields things that are more efficient and more beneficial for the patient, so long as they are actually promoted to the public.
Speaker: um But I can see something along those lines ah coming down the line where maybe this treatment could be 100,000, 200,000. And you know it goes from... ah expense you pay for for life to like a mortgage payment, a student loan payment. And, you know, it seems much more graspable at that point.
Speaker: um But incredible that we're like still finding new discoveries and curing disease in 2026. I think that like that is that is like, you know, the major headline here. We are curing disease still in 2026. I think that's fire.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. Hopefully you can get cheaper. If everyone in the world donated $1 to pay for this treatment, we could cover maybe one person's treatment, maybe three people's treatment. Because the world population is now 8.3 billion.
Speaker: Did y'all hear about that? No. Wasn't it like seven and a half? I thought it was seven as of yesterday, but now it's eight. I don't know. but Okay. Apparently, July 11th was World Population Day. um The UN observes this holiday every July 11th. It was first established in 1989.
Speaker: Every year they also create a theme based off of, you know, the common like global population trends. um So this year the theme is realizing the hopes and aspirations of young people today and for the future. um I kind of wanted to just rattle off some statistics that were kind of highlighted in this most recent report. So the current global population for 2026 is estimated to be 8.3 India is the most populous country in 2026. They have about 1.48 billion people.
Speaker: It used to be China back in 2023, but now they're the second most populous at 1.41 billion. um And they said that by 2050, the global population reached about 9.7 billion, and then it's going to peak to like 10.3 to 10.9 billion in 2080, and then it's going to decline after that. And something that they also mentioned, which I found pretty interesting, is that more than half of the world's population is under the age of 30, which is...
Speaker: which is You know, i don't know. Pretty interesting. Like, I thought we were having i mean, we're still having obviously like an older population, but the fact that we're still because I thought the trend was, oh, people are not having as many babies. So that's the young.
Speaker: The younger generation is not as populous, but they're saying more than half the world's so under age of 30, which is great. um in terms of like by continent um asia has 4.75 billion people that's 50 like 58 percent of the world and then africa has 1.5 billion but what's pretty interesting is that india has 1.5 billion in just its country alone and africa has 1.5 billion in the whole continent of africa so india is definitely busting at the seams But as an OBGYN, I can relate everything back to my residency. That's all I do with my free time um is, you know, the rates are like the world is getting pretty stuffed. Like it's getting really full on this planet right now. And I just keep thinking about how like we need better access to like birth control. You know what i mean? Like there's too many people. I mean, not, I mean, children are a beautiful thing. Don't get me wrong. But when I think about like how like,
Speaker: a lot of these places with low resources are having all these children. It kind of makes me think like, is this a reflection of the lack of focus on contraception kind of like around the world? Like, I don't know. That's just kind of where I kind of go to like, is this boom by choice or is this more like reproductive coercion or is it, you know, like just the lack of contraception and like the lack of like,
Speaker: you know timely family planning that's just kind of what I think about but what do you guys think
Speaker: I should your thoughts I thought that um population growth was slowing. I guess that's just a an America thing. I think that people here are choosing to have babies later yeah and and um and people are living to be older and stuff like that because judging by the statistics, it sounds like everywhere else that's not the case. Yeah.
Speaker: I think you bring up an interesting point about contraception. um But I think that there's also a little bit of um industry is catching up to some of these other nations. So it seems as if, um you know, Africa is the fastest growing continent. It seems as if um there's like an industrial boom happening throughout the nations there.
Speaker: And so that's giving rise like a little bit of infrastructure that's allowing for a but a bit of a better um a bit of a population boom. um Yeah, India, I really hope that things slow down over there because I can i can only i can only imagine a nation of what in that ah nation of one and a half billion. i Think about America has like 400 million.
Speaker: Yeah. That's like four times America in like a lot less space. Yeah, it's the whole continent of Africa in India. that da That's a little... um Yeah, that's surreal to think about.
Speaker: the huh But, you know, more people. I think it's interesting that global life expectancy is going up. That's why I'm not even going to go down the rabbit hole on Mike about why they expect it to taper off and start going going backwards. I will look at that on my own time.
Speaker: But I'm definitely going to look at what that 2080 gradual decline is going to be about.
Speaker: And then also, i was sorry, Sumisa, do you want to go Sorry, sorry. um I was also thinking about like, when, how do I phrase this?
Speaker: Like, obviously, like the world is getting older. and I think about like certain like guidelines we have, like mammogram guidelines, pap smear guidelines, like things like that. Like, are they going to adjust these guidelines for the aging population? Like for instance, like for cervical cancer screening, they you stop at like 65 for the most part if you've had like normal pap smears up to like a certain point whatever but because the population is aging now and like people are getting a lot older than 65 is there still room for screening like with mammograms colonoscopy stuff like that because it kind of like stops at one age but people are living past these ages so what are the risk benefits of continuing screening um even when you're past these certain ages because like now like for some of my patients um
Speaker: if they're like above 65, but nothing else is going to, you know, get them other than cervical cancer. Really. I would, say I would argue that, you know, if you're completely, you know, healthy 65 year old with only a few more like comorbidities, I would say you should still get pap smears. You know what I mean? like You know, like you're completely healthy versus if you're like super unhealthy, like type two diabetes on your last kidney type of thing, like, is there utility in getting a pap smear when you're there's other more pressing things like diabetes and hypertension that you're treating, you know? So I was just thinking like, maybe like, I'm sure like the American Cancer Society and like other um societies in general, probably maybe like starting to alter guidelines based off the aging population.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, this whole topic, I, I, Yeah, it's it's it's definitely hard to like conceptualize just like i guess how big the world really is and like how populous it's becoming.
Speaker: And then you put that against the backdrop of what we know about um what's called um of what we know about like global warming and all of the climate change and everything. And you put that into perspective and it is just, wow.
Speaker: Sometimes I'm really like, dang, like we know too much and we're thinking too much. Like when it comes to life, like it's just like we are thinking about the world's problems. And i'm like, it is actually incredibly difficult to conceptualize. And nobody, we are the first in our bloodlines to have to do this. Like to think about, dang, can the world handle us having more and more babies? And what does that really actually look like?
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. Final statistics. um Africa's median age is around 19. Yeah, super young. Yeah, youngest of any continent.
Speaker: um Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Speaker: um So coupled with it looks like an immense economic growth, I'm going to call it a good thing um because it's sustainable. you know I think it like the reason that it's happening is that to some degree, you know, there's some quality of life. There's some opportunities for people to be able to, um you know, contribute substantially. um And i ah I just wanted to mention this one, this one thing that the French development um agency said by 2050, roughly one, four people on earth will be African.
Speaker: That's right. okay That's interesting. I wonder why it's One in four will be Indian. but other Everyone's there. You know what I mean? like Why is it one in four? b Just because of our reproductive rate?
Speaker: and I think they don't have the space to match the pace. i think um I think Africa has a lot more space for people to actually like you know reproduce and not be on top of one another. I think ah i mean also i think our diaspora is like a little bit bigger. I think as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: um Okay, we're going to move right along to our final topic of the list. um And that is our Health Awareness Month. So for July, we are going to be talking about BIPOC Mental Health Month.
Speaker: for july we were going to be talking about bipa mental health month um And that's, you know, just established to highlight the unique mental health challenges faced by Black, Indigenous, and people of color.
Speaker: And, you know, trying to provide culturally competent resources. um So BIPOC mental health but isn't simply about awareness. It's more so about asking communities that often carry some of the greatest burdens.
Speaker: Well, asking why communities that often carry some of the greatest burdens continue to face some of the greatest barriers to receiving mental health care. So um I'll start off with a couple of statistics.
Speaker: Roughly 43% of Black people and 47% of Hispanic people try to handle mental health challenges on their own rather than seeking a therapist versus about 35% of white people.
Speaker: That statistic is from Lyra Health. um Only about 25% of Asian American or Pacific Islanders will receive mental health treatment when needed. That's also from Lyra Health.
Speaker: And Black Americans are estimated to be about 20% more likely to experience serious mental health challenges than the general population while being less likely to receive treatment.
Speaker: So want to kind of like, you know, approach this one from ah big picture. Trust, access, representation, affordability.
Speaker: two Does it seem like imm communities at large trust the mental health system?
Speaker: I would say no. I mean, I feel like...
Speaker: at least coming from like an African home, like I don't remember talking about therapy until I was like in college and I was like, Oh, therapy is for everyone. It's not just for, you know, like it's, I find it very hard and not no fault like my parents or anything. Like they grew up in a more African home than I did in Nigeria, you know, it's different, you know, so there's no fault. And my mom's actually a psych MP now. So like we've made growth and, you know, progress and things like that. But yeah,
Speaker: Therapy is just kind of unheard of. And I would even say that I encourage my patients to go to therapy, but sometimes I have to like talk myself into, you know, getting the help that I need. You know what I mean? Like, um,
Speaker: I mean, I find therapy in different things. Like, I feel like, you know, like i have community and church and things like that. But sometimes you need a little bit more. Sometimes you need more medical help. And I think that's where the limit, you know, is that people don't want to see a therapist or see a psychiatrist because it it labels them a certain way. um And like the stigma attached to it. And I think also...
Speaker: I feel personally that, at least from what I've seen, feel like people are less likely to refer Black people to psychiatrists or therapists as well. I think they deem them as a certain personality instead of, you know,
Speaker: saying like, oh, this is not normal. They need like additional help, you know? um So I would say the stigma is definitely there. And I think that's stuff I had to unlearn just like from my childhood and like going through medical school and learning more about the field of psychiatry and therapy and things like that. And um yeah, so that's just kind of what I have to say.
Speaker: Yeah, i agree. um Love my girl, my mom but she literally is like, don't ever tell me you're going through. Depression what? Oh my.
Speaker: In Baltimore. was like, you got to relax, sister. It's fine. um But then I say, like even personally, like I've definitely thought about therapy for myself, but like because it's not something that I think it Obviously traditionally has been really kind of not talked about as much in the black community, even when you're like, oh, like maybe I need it. Like you find excuses to like not see mental health that you need. So I think awareness months like this are very important because it de-stigmatizes like a topic that honestly I think more people should talk about.
Speaker: And I think so many people, and there's obviously like historical reasons for it too, don't want to be labeled as quote unquote crazy. That they don't, they leave them themselves like completely blocked off from all mental health services and not just like pharmaceuticals, right?
Speaker: Like people, like if it's anything. Yeah. like I said, love my girl, my mother, but really like she's not with the coming find mental health services. help, but she's not the only one of her generation. And I think it's more so like a common association with, you know, very serious mental health issues, hospitalizations and things of that nature. And I think that you just easily block yourself off from the entire umbrella of mental health services that you could benefit from. So like that includes therapy. It includes medicine. It includes like, you know, you can even go as far as something like ECT. Right. Like all those things have a place. um But I think it's important to bring awareness to the issue because like it's OK to struggle and it's OK to like i actually bring a voice that struggle and then get help for it. And mental health is a part of your overall comprehensive health. And it's just like going to get a checkup, like for anything physical as well. Like it's a part of it.
Speaker: Like if your mental wellbeing is not, you know, up to par, like you as a whole person are not going to be where you need to be. So it's fine to go to therapy guys. I know people have said it before and I'm going to say it again. Yeah.
Speaker: i'll um I'll end us off with an anecdote. or ah I don't know if call it counts an anecdote. I'll end us off with a story. I know a licensed mental health counselor who has been working for some time.
Speaker: She has chosen two begin holding free group sessions at her church. And she did not expect much. She thought, you know, maybe have three or four people.
Speaker: She said that joint was packed out. She said the room was full. They went for about two, two and a half hours and they were adamant about knowing when the next one was going to be.
Speaker: i think it could just be a generational divide where Our parents might be, our their generation may be admitting to um the idea that, you know, mental health is worth pursuing and it's worth um going to therapy.
Speaker: However, the idea of making a doctor's appointment and putting my insurance card down and paying a copay to go sit and talk to someone, that idea might be just a little too jarring for them to get behind.
Speaker: um But I just wanted to provide that story as a means of there is interest in that generation at the very least. There is interest in, um, in mental health services. So
Speaker: maybe it's just about how we, how we, uh, how you've had phrased, how we package it. Yep. Yep. I agree. Because a lot of your other, you know, like chronic conditions, you know, whether that's hypertension, obesity, diabetes, a lot of times you're like, why can I not, you know, like, you know, take control these things. And lot of times, like, in my opinion, it's like a mindset thing, too. Like, you can lose as much weight as you want. You can have the best blood pressure in the world. You know, but like if your mind is not right, I feel like those things decompensate as well, too. Yeah. I feel like, you know, that's why people like they lose all this weight, they get all this plastic surgery, but yet they still don't feel like they look right. And so body dysmorphia. it's because your mind is not right. It's just that simple. You know, so i think, you know, get your head checked, you know, make sure everything's good up there. Make sure that your noggin is, you know, is great. And yeah. Because once the mind is gone, I'm sorry. like That's the worst thing that can go. like so make sure your mind is it's still sharp.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: All right, guys. Make sure them neurotransmitters are correct. All right? And with that, that's our show. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of The Lounge.
Speaker: Let us know your thoughts about the discussions we had today or ask us questions for a chance to be featured on the show by emailing us at podcast at SMA dot org. And be sure to follow the SMA on all our social media platforms to stay up to date on upcoming events.
Speaker: And be sure to touch that link in the bio because we're looking for you on our team. We'll see you guys. We'll catch you in the next one. Bye.
