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Loss Angeles FC - Ep. 2
62 Plays2 years ago
Ari and Noah discuss the Concacaf Champions League final choke job by LAFC to Leon and the Seattle Sounders continued finishing woes in a sluggish MLS game against the Portland Timbers.
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Transcript
Introduction & Context
00:00:00
Speaker
I'll start just congratulating Leon on winning the Champions League. I think we got beat by a very good team. I think if you look at the 180 minutes we played, they deserve to win. And so hats off to them and congratulations. They had the right answers over two matches and we came up short.
Episode Introduction
00:00:22
Speaker
What's going on, everybody? Welcome in to episode two of Lobbing Scorchers. This is Ari Lillianwall. If you listen to episode one, thank you. I'm glad you're tuning back in. And if you're tuning in for the first time, thank you. We've got a great, great show for you today.
00:00:39
Speaker
This is a great show. I've got producer Noah here with me. Noah, say what's up to the people. I'm feeling good today Ari. I'm feeling phenomenal. This is just, this is already this early in
LAFC's CCL Defeat Analysis
00:00:50
Speaker
this show. We've got a celebratory occasion today and I'll tell you why. It's because LAFC have lost concave champions league.
00:01:03
Speaker
lost CONCACAF champions league one zero last night to club Leon of Liga max three one on aggregate and that's a choke job. That's a choke job. Don't get it twisted. That's absolutely a choke job.
00:01:21
Speaker
Now, not every L is necessarily a choke job, okay? I think people misunderstand this sometimes. Like, just losing alone doesn't necessarily mean that you choked. In a series like this, if you're the underdog and the other team is way better than you on paper and you're overmatched with personnel and you lose,
00:01:43
Speaker
That's not a choke, really. If the teams are roughly even and it's a 50-50 toss-up and you play well, you play them straight up, you're competitive, and it's a couple bounces of the ball one way or the other, maybe you get unlucky. I'm never going to call anyone a choke artist in a situation like that.
Seattle's Unique Achievement
00:02:05
Speaker
LAFC was favored in this series, if anything, I think most people realistically considered it a 50 50 toss up. But if anything, LAFC was favored to win this. They're the greatest MLS team of all time, right?
00:02:22
Speaker
Greatest club, greatest club in MOS history, transcendently dominant. Club Leone was, I think, sixth in Liga MX. So nothing, nothing crazy, nothing that LAFC people didn't think they would be able to handle. But they weren't able to handle it. They weren't able to handle it. And
00:02:44
Speaker
This is just so funny because Seattle is still the only MLS team to ever win the modern incarnation of concave champions league. And I think anyone with a vested interest in Seattle, um, was rooting against LAFC here.
00:03:04
Speaker
just for the novelty of still being the only ones to do it. And it enhances the accomplishment of winning last year to see a team as good as LAFC get the opportunity and not be able to do it. It paints Seattle's run in an even better light, I think you have to say.
First Leg Analysis
00:03:22
Speaker
But LAFC didn't really ever compete in this series. They really did not.
00:03:30
Speaker
They didn't get totally overrun in the second leg last night, but they certainly did in the first leg. They were lucky to get out of that at 2-1.
00:03:39
Speaker
They've lost this series in the first leg. They lost total control of that game in the first leg of a CCL series like this, where you are the road team. Your job is basically, I would say, to get a draw by whatever means necessary. Zero zero is honestly ideal in that situation. You gotta keep that shit zero zero for as long as humanly possible. And however you have to do that,
00:04:08
Speaker
that's how you do it. Whether it's just mucking up the game, controlling possession, not letting it become a basketball game. That thing down in Mexico, the first leg, they let it become a track meet.
00:04:20
Speaker
And club Leon playing at home was all over them all over them. You can't let that happen. But that game is all about the game management and keeping them off the score sheet if at all possible. And you know if you lose one zero that's not a terrible result.
00:04:40
Speaker
1-1 would have been a phenomenal result. 2-2, which is what Seattle did in their first leg last year. That would have been fine. And honestly, them getting out of there at 2-1 was a huge lifeline. They did not deserve to be down 2-1 after that game. Club Leon could have had
00:04:59
Speaker
three or four goals easily. Um, Bwanga gets one right at the death. And I don't know about, you know, but after two, one as badly as that game went for them, I was like, all right, you know, they're still, they're still very much in this. Like they could, they could win this.
00:05:18
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I remember sitting here and talking to you and we, we went back and forth on whether we thought that not only was it possible, but that it was probably probable that they were going to go back to LA and play out of their
Control by Club Leon
00:05:34
Speaker
mind.
00:05:34
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. And that's what they had to do. And really in that situation, what they had to do was play out of their mind from the opening whistle. And they really needed an early goal. If you just get that early goal and make it two, two off rip.
00:05:51
Speaker
It's that's 5050 that's anyone's game. So you have to come out firing and you have to do everything you can to get that get that thing tied up as soon as possible. And then at that point, you've got a great chance playing at home. It's one of the most difficult places to play an MLS for sure. And
00:06:11
Speaker
The second leg, I would say, started out pretty well for them. They looked pretty much like normal LAFC. They conceded a soft goal, and that was it after that. You know, those first 10-15 minutes, I would say, though,
00:06:27
Speaker
They had two great chances. Bwonga had one that he was pretty wide open in front of goal. And he just kind of overran the cross and scuffed it. But that was a good look. And then Aaron Long had a header off a set piece from Carlos Vela that he probably finished his most time. It was a pretty open look. But neither of those go in. And they concede the soft goal after that.
00:06:56
Speaker
And you know, from there it was honestly a masterclass from club Leon, you know, all the stuff I was talking about, about taking the sting out of the game, controlling possession, not letting the other team run up and down. They, they executed that perfectly.
00:07:14
Speaker
It was, it's one of those things that, uh, just, I love about soccer, you know, the tactics of it like that. Like a lot of people call soccer boring because there's not a lot of scoring, but I love stuff like that, where it's like you have to aggregate lead. And so your whole goal is to just muck up the game and keep the ball away from the other team. There was one point where clubly owned kept the ball away from LAFC for so long.
00:07:39
Speaker
that Stu Holden on the broadcast goes like, this looks like a training drill for them out there right now. Like they're literally just passing the ball around wasting time, uh, not letting LAFC even get the ball, let alone get anything going in attack. And they executed those tactics perfectly. It was, it was phenomenal to watch. I'll tell you the moment that I knew
00:08:01
Speaker
LAFC had lost this series. They hadn't technically lost it at this point, but it was, it was around like the 50th or 51st minute or something. They're down one zero in the second leg. So they're, they need, they need to score and they went a free kick like right at the top of the box prime prime time zone for Carlos Vela to do his thing.
00:08:23
Speaker
He strolls up to it and I'm thinking to myself, all right, like this is, you know, this is one of those moments where, where legends are kind of made right here. Your team is down three, one on aggregate. You got to get two goals to get this thing to extra time. You got plenty of time to do it. You got this free kick lined up right here. Carlos Vailo, your club legend, your captain is ready to line it up. We've seen him score these a lot of times. He's got the sweetest left foot in MLS.
00:08:54
Speaker
This is one of the, they're gonna have a few little windows like this. This is one of them. If he bams this right here, it's pretty much game back on because at that point it's just one more goal for LAFC and then they at least have a scenario where they could take it to extra time.
00:09:10
Speaker
So Carlos Vela lines up over this free kick. I'm feeling like if they're going to switch this momentum here, this is, this is a great time to do it. Lines it up, smashes it directly into the wall, not even close to putting it on target. Then when the Leon player is trying to run it down, he just cleans the guy out and picks up a yellow card. So not only did they not even get the shot on target for the goal that could have gotten him back in it,
00:09:39
Speaker
They didn't even get close. And then their, their, their captain picks up a yellow card on the same play.
Celebrating Seattle's Victory
00:09:44
Speaker
That's kind of when I was like, they might be shocked right here. They might actually be shocked. Um, and sure enough they were
00:09:54
Speaker
And it's just from a Seattle perspective. It's so funny. It's so funny. Hilarious. We've had to hear a lot about the dominance of LAFC over the last couple of years. We've talked a lot about it too. And rightfully so. I don't take any of that away from them.
00:10:12
Speaker
Like they've been as good as Any MLS team I've seen certainly like in 2019 even when Seattle beat them in the playoffs That was a historically great regular season. They had they had a plus 48 goal differential. Yeah that year You don't really see that you know, you've seen like the Union put up one like that last year but that's just
00:10:37
Speaker
Those are, those are gaudy stats. Okay. And then they won MLS cup last year in legendary fashion, another dominant regular season. So they're definitely still the elite team in MLS right now. Um, but that being said, Seattle's still the only club to do it. It's not for everyone. The only club to do it. It's not for everyone. Not everyone is ready for the smoke.
00:11:03
Speaker
LAFC was not ready for the smoke in this series. Yeah, they weren't if it was a situation Where like I was saying like they played it straight up and? Got unlucky and the bounces just went against them like I would I would say that
00:11:19
Speaker
I would say that, but that's not what happened. They got outclassed and outplayed, outcoached in every capacity in this series. And the end result was honestly the best night that Sounders Twitter has had in a while. The tweets were flying. Everyone was getting in on the action, the memes.
00:11:40
Speaker
It was incredible. It was incredible post might have been one of the best nights on Twitter I've ever been a part of it was phenomenal and I feel like Sanders Twitter kind of needed that you know it's been kind of a the MLS season has been kind of a slog these last few weeks.
00:11:56
Speaker
Everyone had each other's throat about XG and you know, something to distract the rascals. Everyone was just having a great time with this. And like I said before the series that I was okay with either outcome because you know, this outcome is obviously hilarious.
00:12:15
Speaker
But if they had won, you know, I'm someone who is pretty invested in MLS as a league, overcoming this League of MX superiority narrative. And that was one of the reasons I was so happy Seattle did it last year. Obviously, it was sick that Seattle was the first one to do it. And I'm a Seattle guy.
00:12:39
Speaker
But I mainly just wanted anyone to do it. There was a point I got to with how much MLS futility that I've watched in CCL.
00:12:50
Speaker
where I just, I didn't care who did it. I didn't care who did it. I just wanted someone to get it done. The fact that Seattle was the one who did it was an awesome bonus. And so dominantly too. Exactly. I mean, we can talk about LAFC and their run and how incredible they are, but the dominance that Seattle had in that champions league run was pretty incredible. Maybe two legal max teams.
00:13:15
Speaker
I don't think LAFC didn't beat one. LAFC was the only one that beat one. Yeah. LAFC be a Costa Rican team, I believe. And the Vancouver white caps and the choke artists in the Philly union who
00:13:31
Speaker
you know, the, the Philly union, they were good enough to have made a run at it, but LA, LA FC got by him, but like, that's, that's a, I don't know. That's not that sicker run. I'm sorry. It's just, it's not two MLS clubs in a Costa Rican side, like
00:13:49
Speaker
A lot of the, what, what measures this tournament is how you do against league MX and they went up against league MX and they failed Seattle beat this exact clubly owned team early in champions league earlier. I can't remember exactly what round it was. Was it the second round potentially? I think so.
00:14:06
Speaker
Either way, uh, Seattle beat that team and then Seattle, uh, smashed whom us in that series and Seattle did what they had to do in that first leg. They passed that test. They, they got there to draw in that game and, and then they were dominant at home and they smashed them three zero. It actually wouldn't have even mattered.
00:14:26
Speaker
If Seattle had lost that two one, if you grant that it would have been three zero in the second leg, like they would have won it anyway. Um, so I mean, it's just a boon for Seattle all around at a time where it was, uh, sorely needed. What round was it? Well,
LAFC's Roster Challenges
00:14:41
Speaker
Seattle went bammed on Montagua, the Honduran team, uh, five nothing. Then they beat Leon, uh, and then they beat New York city FC and then Pumas.
00:14:52
Speaker
NYC FC was like the hardest series out of all those. Yeah. Yeah, I was at that that that away game and it was it was in NYC was all over them the entire game and then yeah Rui Diaz got one and it didn't end up being that stressful because Seattle smashed on him. I think in Seattle. Yes.
00:15:10
Speaker
Well, it was it was yeah, it was three one in the first leg and then one one in the in the second. Yeah, exactly. So that's that's relatively comfortable. God, it really it just going through it right there. Just what what a run they gave run. They gave up a total of five goals.
00:15:29
Speaker
Total in the in the like out through round of 16 quarterfinals semifinals and through the final that's like it's Pretty impressive. We're pretty far from moved from it now and Things have been so negative around the team for the last few weeks that you kind of forget what a crazy run that was But then watching what happened to LA FC man. It really it makes it a
00:15:52
Speaker
all the more impressive. Um, we got to talk about Steve Toronto Lowe's reaction to all this. He had some takes at his presser that I've got a few things to say about. All right. So basically he, uh, he was given the whole spiel that MLS coaches always give after they get eliminated from CCL, which is,
00:16:14
Speaker
You know, MLS clubs are at such a disadvantage in this competition because of the roster restrictions. That was his main thing, is we need to loosen up the roster restrictions and allow our clubs to spend more money on better players and mainly more depth, I think was his point.
00:16:33
Speaker
If you're in a situation where you're a little banged up, you don't have the depth to compete because there's so much money in Liga MX that their depth can withstand something like that, and MOS clubs still can't.
00:16:53
Speaker
that we have to face as an MLS team. In tournaments like this, if you want to consistently compete in finals and win these, you're going to have to rethink your roster rules and regulations. You're at a big disadvantage. There's a little more money on the side of the table. And money in this game buys quality players. And I think we have a good enough team to win this tournament.
00:17:18
Speaker
I think with our scheduling and all the competitions this year, we had a lot going on. And we ended up in the final, not at our best moment. And roster building is about that. And having deeper rosters and more players, quality players on your team, will allow you to extend those periods of play. And every MLS team is at a disadvantage there.
00:17:48
Speaker
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00:18:14
Speaker
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00:18:43
Speaker
It's the same talking point that we've been hearing for years and he's not wrong. He's not wrong. That is like the primary reason why this, this, uh, MLS struggling in CCL narratives have persisted for so
Greatest MLS Team Debate
00:18:59
Speaker
long. There's a, there's a pretty big spending gap, but not between these two teams.
00:19:04
Speaker
Yeah, well that okay. So that's one thing if you actually look at the amount of money that's been spent on both these rosters, I believe LAFC is actually has the more expensive roster. Yeah. But I mean more than that, honestly, I mean, I thought you were LAFC. Yeah, I thought you were LAFC. I thought you were the greatest club MLS club ever assembled.
00:19:29
Speaker
I thought you were immune to all those issues. That's what everyone told me. That's what all their fans say. That's what you said yourself. That's what they, that's the kind of, I don't want to say that they necessarily come out and say that, but they definitely have that air about them. Um, they talk about themselves in such a way. And
00:19:48
Speaker
not unrightfully necessarily up to this point. But you really you can't have that both ways. Are you the greatest MLS club of all time that's immune to the normal things that afflict MLS clubs, not just in CCL, but in general? Like, are you really above it all? Or are you not?
00:20:08
Speaker
I also think it's a little bit silly to say that that is your whole reason or just like a big part of it. When MLS was incredibly accommodating. Tell him couldn't have been more accommodated. They threw out their entire reserve team for a US open cup match because they just didn't give a shit.
00:20:27
Speaker
They've played like four games this season. Exactly. And not actually, but they have like five games in hand on everyone else. Yeah. So if you're going to sit there and say, Oh my goodness, this, this is the reason is because the league does, you know, we've got all these rules. They were, they were incredibly accommodating. You spent more money than the year your opponent and you still couldn't get it done.
00:20:48
Speaker
Weren't weren't that injured they they had belong has played like every single game for the past like 40 years exactly They haven't they didn't have to rotate that much because of how accommodating the league was towards their scheduling So everyone was fresh. They had the squad they had the squad
00:21:05
Speaker
If Steve Truandolo is really trying to sit there and say that like he didn't have the horses to get this done. Yeah. No way. He was out coached. No way. He was out coached. They were outplayed. My overarching takeaway, I guess, is just that LFC is a great team like they are.
00:21:22
Speaker
They're an objectively great team. They've proven that much in MLS. There's probably still the most dominant MLS team I've seen when you think about what they've done over the past couple years, dating back to 2019. But what they're not is this transcendently dominant, greatest MLS club ever assembled that is above everyone else in the league. If that's what they were, they would have won that series.
00:21:48
Speaker
That's what was on the line for them, and they'd choked. No way around it. They're not in Seattle's weight class. They're not. They're a great team. They're a great MOS team. But that's all they are right now. So if we want to talk about them as these transcendent standard bears, go win it next year. Good luck. Go win it. Go win it. That's the other thing about what Trundle was saying, is that that argument was a lot more relevant
00:22:16
Speaker
when there was the talking point that no MLS team had ever done it, because then you're like, is this even possible with these roster restrictions?
Seattle vs. LAFC in Finals
00:22:24
Speaker
Like, can this even be done? And you know, teams have gotten close before. So I think it's clear that it can, it could have been done in previous years, but Seattle literally won it. Okay. So LAFC go win it, go win it, get back in there and go win it. Or your status is not really what you say it is. Um,
00:22:47
Speaker
I don't know. Is there anything, is there anything else to add on that? For me personally, you've had two, you've had two chances at it. You've had two chances at a final. Couldn't get either of them done. That's all right. The 2021 was the COVID one. So I was a little weird, but I'm just saying, no, you're right. You're right. You've had, you've over two sounders are one for one.
00:23:11
Speaker
Well, I mean, I guess in finals. Yeah. Yeah. In finals. Yeah. We don't need to forget all the irrelevant stats. This is a sounder's boot looking one for one in one for one in CCL finals is an accurate stat. Yeah. But I think at the end of the day, we still do have to congratulate LAFC because they did make history. They, they were in fact the first MLS team to plan a two leg CCL final.
00:23:37
Speaker
and lose both games. So congratulations. They weren't ahead for a single minute of the series. They not, not one.
Portland's Rivalry Dominance
00:23:45
Speaker
It wasn't embarrassing. Like I said, like they bottled that in the first leg, they bottled that first leg so badly. They were so lucky.
00:23:53
Speaker
to get out of that first leg at 2-1. I mean, Toronto even said it. We talked about it on the debut show. He said that they bottled the game pretty badly and that they were fortunate to be going back at 2-1. But the fact that they got shut out at home didn't
00:24:11
Speaker
Really make clubly own Work for much after they scored that first goal and they kind of let clubly own and pose their game plan When they were up 3-1 on aggregate already, that's I mean that's surprising to me to be honest. Yeah, that's surprising like I said The first the first few minutes after kickoff. It was probably like 10-15 minutes. It looked like
00:24:36
Speaker
It looked like a normal LFC home game where they were pretty on top of Leon. They had a couple of really good looks. They were on the front foot. They were playing at how we were saying that they needed to play it. And then they just couldn't sustain that. The goal, I think, really took a lot out of them. They never really recovered from that.
00:24:59
Speaker
Choke job. That's a choke. If you're in a series where you're the favorite, if anything, and you get outclassed and outplayed to that degree, that's a choke job. And it's tough for MLS, but it's hilarious for Seattle. It's so funny.
00:25:21
Speaker
It's also funny too, because you'll have LAFC fans giving every excuse under the sun, but Seattle did it with their arguably one of their best players getting injured in that game, as well as new who went out as well. JP and knew who both were early sell bed. Vargas played most of that game. Yeah. The second leg. Yeah. So, you know,
00:25:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's funny that Gerundolo I went straight to that I It's not it's it's a tough one to harp on too much just because He's he is right on the substance But it's just not really it's not relevant. It's not that's not supposed to be relevant for this team. It's not no like
00:26:12
Speaker
They were supposed to be above all that. They were supposed to be above all that. And they were shown not to be. They were exposed.
LAFC's Upcoming Tests
00:26:19
Speaker
They were exposed. And now the post CCO hangover. That's the other thing we got to talk about with them. MLS gave them every scheduling accommodation they possibly could have. They've played way less games than everyone else to keep them fresh for this competition.
00:26:38
Speaker
They've been more or less pretty fortunate with injuries. I know Kelen Acosta missed the first leg. Sergey Polensia, who's been playing very, very well for them, go down with it. It was a non-contact injury. Well, it looked like a lot like the play that JP got hurt on, actually. He had been in great form for them, and he looks like he's probably going to be out for a little while. I don't know what that injury is.
00:27:05
Speaker
Aaron long at one point was going up for a header and Knocked heads with a guy and it looked like he busted his head open. I thought he was gonna have to come out of the game I think he might have actually stayed in but I'm kind of surprised there was no like concussion protocol or something on that Maybe there still is I don't know the point is they had a couple guys start dropping and This is gonna be this is gonna be the test for them really because they've
00:27:34
Speaker
They haven't had to, they really have not had crazy fixture congestion and squad rotation as much as it seemed like MLS clubs have had in past years. I could be tripping on that. I know Seattle got accommodated similarly last year, but just to me, when I was looking at LAFC's lineups and their schedule this year,
00:27:57
Speaker
It felt like they, it felt like it was like almost tilting to me how little it seemed like they had to rotate for their league games. I remember Seattle having to throw out some, some walkie lineups. Um, when they were juggling CCO last year,
00:28:14
Speaker
And every week I would look at LAFC starting 11 and Bwanga, Vela, Acosta, Ilyay, Morillo, Sifuentes, Palacio, they're just like, they're all out
Mental & Physical Toll of CCL
00:28:27
Speaker
there every week. And I'm like, how are you guys like, how are you guys doing this?
00:28:31
Speaker
But that's not going to be the case anymore because the flip side of the accommodation that you get when you're in CCL is that they just give, they stack games later. So you have insane fixture congestion to basically make up for the games that you haven't been playing that everyone else is.
00:28:49
Speaker
So that throws them immediately into a pretty insane part of their schedule. They've got like seven or eight games coming up in the next probably like 24 days or something like that. I just made those numbers up, but they're going to have like probably multiple stretches like that. And they have to, they're going to have to do leagues cup with everyone else too.
00:29:11
Speaker
They had at least one bad-looking injury in in the CCL final We'll see how everyone else came through it, but They're they're about to meet the gauntlet and You know Seattle people we know better than anyone What can happen? After a CCL run it takes a lot out of you. It's not just about the physical toll
00:29:36
Speaker
This tournament is a mental grind as much as anything. It's mind, body, and soul in those games. They're extremely high intensity. They're extremely competitive. They're emotional. And I think kind of what you saw with Seattle last year and what you've seen with a lot of MLS teams in the past is when you're playing
00:30:01
Speaker
in games that are that intense and it's mind, body and soul, you can try all you want to get up the same way for like FC Dallas away in July. It's pretty hard to do. Like you can't like, uh,
00:30:19
Speaker
You can't force yourself to bring that same level of intensity for these random league games as you do for a CCL game where everything's on the line and you're defining legacies.
00:30:34
Speaker
You're playing for like more than just your club in your city. You're playing for like the league. There's just, there's so much stuff going on. There's so much at stake. I think when you get back to the league season, there's the physical toll that that the tournament takes on you, but there's also, there's also the mental part of it and that's a huge part of it. And you know, I think if there's any team that's set up to deal with that LFC would, uh,
00:31:03
Speaker
would be it but I mean that's going to be the test for them that's going to be the test for them and the thing is like with them losing that series like all the physical and mental energy that they put into getting to that point is pretty much for nothing I'm sorry like I hate to boil it down like that just for for losing a two game series but like they had to win that they had to win that they had to win that and they choked
Seattle's CCL Pressure
00:31:31
Speaker
And Seattle remains the only MLS club to win the modern incarnation of that competition for at least one more year. And you know, CCL will be back. I'm hoping Seattle works their way back into it next year. I kind of I kind of didn't mind.
00:31:51
Speaker
having it off this year and kind of getting to just watch from the sidelines and not really care about the games, you know, uh, my, my, my, uh, my mind and body was taxed from those games from that run last year. Uh, I was so glad they won it because like,
00:32:10
Speaker
I don't know. Most MLS games, I'm not as nervous, I guess, about the outcome anymore, really. If Seattle loses, I try to keep perspective on it. I've seen them win so much now, and seeing them win CCL too was kind of like a pinnacle moment.
00:32:30
Speaker
where I just feel like a league loss doesn't really like get to me that much anymore. But like the CCL games last year, I don't know about you, but I felt like my life was on the line. I was so nervous. I was so nervous during those games, especially during the final, but really every single one of them, I was, I was pretty deep in shambles.
00:32:53
Speaker
It was an emotional nightmare for me too. Personally, I was, I was, Oh God. The thing is like anytime you get eliminated from CCL, people start talking about what a choke artist you are and how embarrassing it is. You get every league, a mechies fan in every, all the league, a lot of other MLS fan bases start chirping. And it's just like, Oh God, I really would rather not deal with that.
00:33:18
Speaker
But I mean, it's part of it. Like, you know, every, every MLS club who had ever tried the modern incarnation had suffered that fate until Seattle last year. So it's like, I was ready for all that, but like the further and further they made it and the closer and closer it got, the more I was just like,
00:33:35
Speaker
God, if they lose now, this is just going to be brutal scenes. This is going to be brutal. Like I just need them to get this dub for my own sanity. And thankfully they did LAFC is on the other side of that right now. They, they put, they put it in for that run and they got to the pinnacle and couldn't get it done, man. They couldn't get it done. Sad hate to see it.
00:34:01
Speaker
You really love to see it. I kind of love to see it. I love
LAFC's Fixture Congestion
00:34:07
Speaker
to see it. Oh, when they tweeted the final graphic, the empty stadium, a lot of the final graphic tweets always hit really nice, but that one hit extra nice. It's funny cause like, yeah, like I was talking about how I was good with either outcome. Yeah.
00:34:26
Speaker
but this outcome was way better. It's objectively funnier. It's way funnier. It's objectively funnier for everyone in the league across all competition and what will be personally even funnier as if they hit that hangover and just skid so hard. We'll see what happens with that. I, I don't know. Maybe, maybe they're, maybe they're above that. Maybe they're above that.
00:34:51
Speaker
but I think, I think that they're built good enough to bounce back. I would, they have, okay, here's what I'll say shocked. Oh, here's what I'll say. They have enough talent on the team.
00:35:02
Speaker
They did also have enough talent to win that game though. For sure. But like they still have a lot of talent and they have enough to be able to withstand, I think at least whatever physical blows they may have withstood from the, from that run. It's the mental part of it that I'm questioning. My prediction is honestly, I think they might let down a little bit.
00:35:25
Speaker
You know, it's, it's pretty hard to just go back to the league season after that tournament, whether you win or you lose. I mean, we all, we all saw it. We all saw it last year with Seattle. They never, they never really recovered from losing JP and from the, they never emotionally seemed to get back up to, to that level happens a lot. We've seen it happen a lot of times. So that's what they're going to have to deal with.
00:35:55
Speaker
And I mean, they've got a, they they're playing Atlanta at home and then they got to go down to Houston. Then they come back and play Houston again, which is an interesting, funny back to back Houston away is not an easy game for anybody ever. Even doesn't matter how bad the dynamo are. It's 107 degrees at that stadium. Exactly. Like you base, I look at a Houston road match and I think zero, zero and get the fuck out of there. Or, and if get a Paul Rothrock game winner, if you can, but that's, that's it.
00:36:24
Speaker
Then they go to sporting and play objectively a hot sporting team. Much, much, much improved. And then they come and they play Seattle.
00:36:37
Speaker
No, that's in
Seattle's Offensive Struggles
00:36:39
Speaker
LA. That's in LA. Okay. Well, they're, they're playing Seattle. Oh man. I'm looking forward to that game. I'm looking forward to that game. Yeah. Then the white caps and that's all just this month still. And we're what it's the fifth day of the month. They're going to play one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, wait, six fixtures in that time period.
00:36:59
Speaker
Yeah. Fix your congestion. They've got it. All right. I think, I think that's about, uh, that's about good on LAFC. I, it was, it was just such a, it was just such a vibe. It was such a vibe. I had a great time.
00:37:15
Speaker
Sounders Twitter had had the most fun out of anybody, but I think I think a lot of fan bases were Banding together the gal I had a lot of galaxy Twitter favoriting my tweets like it was there was a good There's a good alliance last night between sounders Twitter and galaxy Twitter. Yeah, that was pretty funny like I wasn't even really expecting that but when I saw like a few galaxy fans retweet my my memes and takes and I was like Oh, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense
00:37:43
Speaker
Good times, good times. I guess we have to talk about the Seattle Sounders now too. Do we have to? Yeah, we do, unfortunately. Coming off that game. That's what that's sure what it was. I mean, I'm really, I'm really not going to, we're not going to spend too much time on this. This was a good vibes episode talking about LAFC's choke job.
00:38:07
Speaker
This doesn't need to be going in on what ills might afflict the Seattle Sounders at the moment, but 00 against the Portland Timbers at Loom & Field on Saturday for the doubleheader with OL Rain who lost 2-0 to the Portland Thorns.
00:38:25
Speaker
Um, so zero goals for, uh, Seattle, the city of Seattle soccer clubs over 180 minutes. So that wasn't necessarily, I think how you would have liked that to go in an ideal world.
00:38:41
Speaker
It's still a fun event. I think the double header thing is pretty sick. They did it last year or two. And it's like a good spectacle, just footy all day. I'm into it. And I think it's good to see big crowds for OL Rain. They've been playing at Lumen Field for a year or so now. And they've been drawing decently well, but they should draw better. They're a good team. And there's a lot of star players on the team. They're fun to watch.
00:39:10
Speaker
I'm gonna try and make it out to more games this year for sure. I try to go to a few every year but so the event itself was was fun even despite the results but I mean
00:39:27
Speaker
The sounders timbers game was I mean no one looked really that interested in scoring a goal We want if we want to talk about xg there was 0.6 of it combined between the two teams so Just going back to what I was we were talking about last week when they put up 3.0 xg Against the quakes and how you know
00:39:50
Speaker
So like in the, in the twos and up towards three, that pretty much always means that you played pretty well on offense, at least in terms of your chance generation, zero point, whatever it was that each of these teams put up. That's a heavy indicator that the eye test was once again, in fact, correct. And no one was even close to scoring.
00:40:17
Speaker
The timbers had one chance. I think a header off a corner kick by Dairon Esprita. That was like kind of close. But at least for Seattle on offense, it was like pulling teeth once again.
Academy Players' Impact
00:40:32
Speaker
And honestly, I knew that this was going to be a difficult game when I saw the lineup. Okay. As soon as I saw the lineup, I knew it was going to be tough sledding.
00:40:42
Speaker
Cody Baker and Reed Baker, Baker Whiting have, have zero MLS reps together playing at the positions that they were playing at. Cody Baker has been playing at left back. He's a more natural right back. Alex rolled on was suspended. So they moved him to right back.
00:40:59
Speaker
He played well I really like him as a defender like I feel like his defense is already like MLS level if if not like even better like I agree like his positioning And like like when he's tracking long balls over the top and like not letting guys get in behind him and
00:41:22
Speaker
He's very tactical to tactical users. He can do the new thing with the shielding off the ball to let the ball go out of bounds. He does body around throws his body around. He was getting in Claudio Bravo's face, mixing it up, talking trash. I thought that was cool. That was fire. So
00:41:38
Speaker
he's been playing well. And I guess I just want to make this clear. Like for everything that's gone wrong for Seattle, the last few weeks, I really don't blame the academy kids whatsoever. Like they've been playing well. Like if it was a situation where they were throwing the inexperienced kids out there and they were having these glaring growing pains and it looked like they, you know, they were doing okay, but not quite ready for MLS yet.
00:42:06
Speaker
I would say that. And I think with RBW, there's been like a little more of that, but not like anything egregious. Like he's been holding his own, which is all you can ask. But I think Cody Baker's been, it's more than holding his own, like to actively good.
00:42:21
Speaker
I saw that a new who was honored with, uh, one of the players of the match week. And honestly, I was surprised. I was like, dude, I would have picked Cody Baker for that over new. No, I thought, I mean, I thought the defense, the defense was good in the game. And I guess that's one encouraging thing is so that's, I was talking about this last week, but that's why not giving up soft goals is so key a game like that, where you're throwing a rotated lineup out there and you're not going to have much on offense.
00:42:49
Speaker
So you're not going to have any margin for error. Otherwise you're going to drop the points instead of taking at least one. They at least kept the clean sheet to preserve one point, which takes it from like what could have been a really, if they lost that game, it would have been
00:43:08
Speaker
pretty catastrophic in the context of everything else. But what I was going to say is that just with that lineup, there's just only so much you can expect for an offensive system that basically is designed to run through the right side when you who's on the field, putting two homegrown Academy kids
00:43:31
Speaker
in those spots at right back and right mid and still be able to really function on the level that you need to be generating chances consistently. It's really not a knock on Cody Baker or RBW at all. They don't have those MLS reps together. And that's why starting RBW at right mid
00:43:53
Speaker
Given I given where Seattle's at with their personnel in this situation Like I don't mind it like it's an ambitious dart throw to really to expect RBW and Cody Baker to be like running the offense from the right side and you're gonna be just What getting chance after chance out there like with them having no reps? Together but then also not a lot of MLS reps in general
00:44:19
Speaker
It seemed like it seemed like a lot and then you throw Freddie starting up top and look Freddie still has value to this team. I think he showed that in the Austin game when he was the only one who was able to score a goal. He's good. He's still good in spot duty like that.
00:44:39
Speaker
But starting him and expecting him to carry the load up top age 35 with two homegrowns starting on the right side, you look at that immediately before the game. And it's not hard to see where there's going to be some struggles on offense. It's a player who's older and can't really carry the load for a full 90 anymore.
Freddie's Role in Seattle
00:45:06
Speaker
And two young guys that have no rep, not a lot of reps in MLS and no reps, MLS reps together at those positions. So can't say I was super shocked that they struggled on offense again, but they did. I mean, I think the only thing you might be able to argue is that Schmetz could have started a bear again. And he explained why he didn't do that after the game. He said, well, I think part of it was a bear had, he had, they had three games this week.
00:45:33
Speaker
And a bear had played the majority of the first two of them and hadn't scored. And Smith basically said, Freddie has a lot of experience in this rivalry. He scored a lot of goals in this rivalry. You know, he's, he's a trusted,
00:45:51
Speaker
veteran So I think that kind of idea combined with the fact that a bear had played so many minutes Was why Freddie was starting I mean 0.3 whatever XG is what the whole situation led to so I mean at least at least they didn't lose it you know you can say that and
00:46:19
Speaker
I don't know. I don't really know how much to read into it as far as the other struggles that they've had on offense over the last few weeks, just because I don't really think you're going to see that lineup in that exact setup barring extenuating circumstances for a while. It's just, that's just not the 11 that you throw out there on an ideal week.
00:46:40
Speaker
there was dark throwing going on. There was rotation going on and it did not, it certainly did not lead to any goals. So another week where, where it was like pulling teeth and attack, um, which is unfortunate because you know, someone like me who's like super tuned in to every game,
00:47:02
Speaker
It's a little like easier for me to see the bigger picture of what the personnel was like and why they had to do that in the context of the other games that they've played this week and stuff like that.
Focus on Winning for Seattle
00:47:16
Speaker
But I think, uh, you know, my friend Mark Castner from Sounder at Heart wrote a column this week where
00:47:22
Speaker
He put it pretty well, which I would say this is something I would acknowledge. I could have I could have acknowledged more on on the last show when I was dishing my take on this, which is that like you can contextualize it with all you want with XG with personnel discussions on what the starting lineup was like and
00:47:47
Speaker
you know, was the underlying performance better than the result. And, you know, in some cases like the San Jose game, it was, you know, in this case with Portland, it made the final result was perfectly fair to the performance. But when you just, when you have a string of final results like they've had over the last five, six weeks,
00:48:10
Speaker
that kind of stops mattering and you have to start just stacking the results. You know, like the underlying performance stuff and the lineup stuff like the average fan is going to stop caring
Seattle's Season Outlook
00:48:26
Speaker
about that. They might not ever care about that nor should they necessarily like some fans are into that stuff. I'm pretty into that stuff because it allows me to get a forecast on what might happen in the future. It's not about really explaining
00:48:40
Speaker
the past results as much as it is like cannot look at this and predict what might happen going forward so that's why I think that stuff is useful but I think the sounders right now are at a point where the average fan is probably like alright like what do I care
00:48:57
Speaker
what do I care what the underlying numbers say like what do I care what the lineup is like can you stack some dubs like Jesus Christ what do I care that you're top at the table like that doesn't even seem to matter to a lot of fans right now yeah well I mean I mean I get the games in hand and they're not in first any right but like
00:49:16
Speaker
They're not out of anything. No, no, like, it doesn't feel that way. Spets Spets talked about that after the game too. Uh, like if he looks at the first half of the season, cause we're halfway through the season now, he said, if he looks at the first half of the season on the balance, he can't be like overly disappointed because
00:49:38
Speaker
They've managed to stay afloat on the table. That is a positive in all this. They've stayed afloat on the table. They're near, they're in second in the West now on, uh, on points. Their points per game, you know, that kind of undermines where they are in the table, in my opinion. I mean, they're at like 1.5, 1.6. Um, to be talking about home playoff games, you want to be up like as close to two as you can get. The 1.5 range is how you end up with a road playoff game.
00:50:08
Speaker
But I mean they've got there's 17 games to like get a run of form together and if they can do that they can they can maintain this spot that they've somehow managed to keep near the top of the West table. But I mean they've got it. They've got to start stacking points. They've got to start stacking points.
00:50:29
Speaker
You can't really hang your hat on performances or lineups or anything like that anymore. You got to turn it around and get the season back going.
00:50:41
Speaker
So can they do that? I mean, they've got Charlotte FC away coming up on Saturday, I believe. Which in East Coast Road Trip is always a tough game. I always look at an East Coast Road Trip. And it's sort of like Houston away. If you 0-0 it, that's fine. 1-1, whatever.
00:51:05
Speaker
do whatever you got to do to grind out a point and come home. It's not like Charlotte is that it's good, but it's it doesn't really matter in MLS like when you have a long road trip like this. The home team always has a huge advantage like
00:51:23
Speaker
Any any like talent advantage you think you might have like roster wise is Is irrelevant in this game? I can tell you that right now Seattle is probably gonna have to absorb a lot of pressure Charlotte's gonna be on top of them for a lot of the game. I shall goes when when you do these big road trips and MLS like
00:51:45
Speaker
there's a lot of factors behind why that's the case. I mean, it's a parody driven league. Um, but it's just really hard to win on the road. Um, but that being said, um, I don't think that it's impossible for a Seattle to win this game in the event that they actually get like a relatively standard normal starting 11 back. Um,
00:52:13
Speaker
It's a game where they can take three points for sure. Like, like if you, if you have Christian rolled on back starting in Raul Rui Diaz back starting, it should be an 11 even without Jordan Morris that cam win. Um, Charlotte's been playing better. They've been playing better ball. The last like four or five over the same period that Seattle has been struggling. Charlotte's been playing a lot better. They started really bad.
00:52:37
Speaker
But they did lose their last game for two to Columbus But that just means they're gonna be kind of pissed off and trying to right the ship at home so they're probably gonna come out and try and get out on top of Seattle right away and Seattle is gonna have to they're gonna have to be good in possession
00:53:00
Speaker
they're gonna be, they're gonna have to be good. You know, some of that stuff we talked about taking the sting out of the game, holding possession, running time off the clock. Like that's how you should approach this game, in my opinion. I mean, I don't know. Do you see it differently?
00:53:16
Speaker
No, I think that's a good idea, especially when you know that, you know, you're struggling up front. But I think also finding ways in training, which I'm sure they're doing, to just be more confident in that final third. And like, I mean, we talk about it all the time. The dam will break. It'll break. I mean, whether a bear's out there or Raoul's out there, it's going to happen. And why not get one on the road?
00:53:43
Speaker
I honestly think they'll probably lose this game personally, but I, well, I just, I mean any road game like this where you're making such a long trip, you're, you're just, you're a heavy underdog off rip. Like that's just how it is. Like I'm telling you personnel like does not make a difference. Like those games always play out the same way.
00:54:03
Speaker
The only team that's been immune from that in the last couple years really is LAFC like they they can take their team pretty much anywhere and it seems like they can play the same way and not be in a situation where the home team is on top of them and of course there's individual games that don't play out like this but I'm talking like generally like a big long road trip like this cross-conference
00:54:29
Speaker
the home team's just got a huge advantage. That's just how it is. So, you know, I think ordinarily, ordinarily you probably take a 0-0 or a 1-1 and run, but I do think like from, you know, from Schmetzer and the players' perspective,
Christian Roldan's Comeback
00:54:50
Speaker
they're probably going to want to maybe play less conservatively just because the team, the team needs a win right now. Like just, this would be huge for morale. You got 11 days off after this game. Why not throw everything at him?
00:55:03
Speaker
Yeah, that's actually a great point with the schedule. They actually have some time to recharge and hopefully get Jordan Morris healthy after this. So there actually is no reason why they shouldn't throw everything at this game if they can. I don't know if they're ready to start Christian yet or Raul yet. That was kind of the disappointing thing about the Portland game is that
00:55:26
Speaker
you know, I thought that maybe those guys would be in line to start. And I was like, okay, if you can throw a first choice 11 out there, like maybe this plays out
Portland vs. Seattle Analysis
00:55:35
Speaker
differently. And then I saw the starting lineup, uh, as, as kind of rotated and dart throwy as it was. And I was like, Oh,
00:55:43
Speaker
It was frustrating, but I think like the second that Christian came in, the game kind of turned, they had that chance like right off rip when Christian got something. And it was like, Oh yeah, exactly. Like their best chance of the game. And that, that sequence actually though, it wasn't just like the service that Christian put in and the chat and the goal chance they had that, that sequence. If you watch, if you watch the whole sequence leading up to the chance,
00:56:09
Speaker
I mean, it looked, it looks exactly like, uh, they have looked earlier in the season when they were playing super well, like one touch in, in between defenders and like creating, they created like an overload, unbalanced the defense created a, created a great chance. And that was the best look at the game right after Christian rolled on comes on. So it was like, yeah, exactly. That's exactly what we've been saying that, uh, it was funny to see it that, uh,
00:56:36
Speaker
Just that clearly illustrated I guess I had one more thought on the Portland game that I forgot to mention and then we can wrap this one up. Yeah, I Don't get why Portland played that conservatively
00:56:51
Speaker
Like I was saying on the last show, I was like, they're probably going to be like, fuck it. Let's go out and run all over them again. We've done it every time for the last five times. They didn't do that at all. Like they played very, very conservatively and were kind of, it seemed like they were fine with a smash and grab zero, zero, take the point home. But Gio Savarese, their coach, he even said after the game, he was like,
00:57:16
Speaker
you know if we were higher up on the table right now like this would have been a great result but like given how our own results have been going lately this isn't that great a point and we don't feel like that great about this yeah and it's like yeah well then why did you play it like that I mean that being said Portland owns the rivalry right now I mean that's just a fact
00:57:39
Speaker
They haven't lost their last eight times. They've been to lumen field. All right, that's that is crazy They've won a lot of those two those that aren't haven't just been smash and grab zero zeros. Those have been like they came here in one So I don't really know what else to say about that until Seattle gets a win until Seattle gets a win against them and
00:58:00
Speaker
there's not much like trash to be talked about this rivalry in this game did nothing really to change that I don't think Portland can like flex on it too much because they basically just trolled out for the zero zero which is I mean it's fine for them they got a road point that doesn't really help them that much but as far as like rivalry bragging rights and stuff go they I mean they own the rivalry right now I hate to say it but like I don't really know what other conclusion
Episode Wrap-up
00:58:29
Speaker
you could come to. But anyway, we'll wrap it there. Charlotte FC coming up on Saturday. I might lay down some more audio before then. Uh, if there's a, an impetus to like if news breaks or something happens that I want to dish a take on, we're not going to be doing Seahawks for this one because
00:58:50
Speaker
We're so far from training camp, honestly. I just wanted to lay down those takes just so people can maybe get a feel for my thoughts on the team. And we'll get into that as more actual news breaks and it gets closer to training camp. But for now, we're going to leave this one at LAFC Reaction and the Seattle Sounders talk and wrap it right there.
00:59:14
Speaker
Make sure to go rate. Go rate, follow, subscribe on all the platforms. Send it to your dad. You know your dad has bad soccer takes. Come on. Send it to your dad. Yeah, go rate, subscribe, do all that. And thank you for listening in if you tuned in. Where can people find you, Ari? You can find me at AriLillianWall on Twitter, A-R-I-L-I-L-J-E-N-W-A-L. And thanks for listening, and we'll catch you for the next one. We out. Peace.