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00:00:01
Madeleine. Wilson
34 Plays6 days ago
This week I am joined by photographer and outdoors advocate Madeleine Wilson. join us as we talk about capturing the moment, as well as ensuring public lands are available and accessible to all!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Outdoorsy Educator Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Outdoorsy Educator Podcast, where stories become lessons and every journey has something to teach us. Every week I sit down with people from all walks of life to hear their adventures, explore their experiences, and uncover the insights that have shaped them along the way.
00:00:21
Speaker
Whether it's from the outdoors, the classroom, or any other path, each conversation offers a fresh perspective on learning, growth, and what it means to truly connect with the world and the people around us.
Madeline Wilson's Mission for Inclusivity in the Outdoors
00:00:40
Speaker
And on this week's episode of the Outdoorsy Educator podcast, we have Madeline Wilson. Madeline, how are you today? Hello, hello. i am doing so well. It is sunny in the Pacific Northwest here, so that's fantastic. I am just super happy to be here. Thank you for having me on.
00:00:58
Speaker
Of course. Thank you for being here. Why don't you tell our audience a little bit about yourself? Sure, i would love to. So my name is Madeline and I am a photographer based in Washington state in the United States. And I am also a content creator and outdoor advocate. So I have a created a outdoor platform basically online and in person that revolves around reclaiming the outdoorsy identity for everybody and making sure that the outdoor community is as inclusive and welcoming as possible for everyone. And that manifests itself in a bunch of different ways in a podcast, in a discord server and a Patreon community.
00:01:40
Speaker
And just in the content that I'm posting on social media and on my blog and shooting photography while I'm at it. So that's kind of everything I do in a nutshell, but it's a lot of different stuff. I love it. Well, we're going to dive into all of it. I thought
The Art of Photography: Weddings to Wildlife
00:01:53
Speaker
I would start off with photography because you and I do share a passion for outdoor advocacy and we'll get into that. But I had a quick look through a lot of your your your photography on your website over the last couple of days. And I always feel like a photographer is trying to tell a story. And I was curious as to what motivates you, what drives you and what story you're trying to tell through your art.
00:02:17
Speaker
Sure. What a great question. Well, I have a few different avenues of photography that I've pursued over the years. And i have done everything from newborn photography to wedding photography to nature and landscape photography, kind of just about everything. I have found the most fun and joy in connecting with individuals with wedding photography because you just get to be present for their best day ever.
00:02:44
Speaker
And it's just super joyful. So the the strategy that I take when I'm shooting weddings is really making sure that that joy of the actual event is coming through and the joy of the couple is coming through. That's where I thrive. And I feel like I'm able to...
00:03:03
Speaker
Be able to extract that joy from everybody and make sure that they're having a good time and not worrying about the fact that they're having their photos taken. and that really comes through and, you know, and what the final product looks like because people are comfortable.
00:03:19
Speaker
And I have definitely taken that same strategy into other types of photography as well. And the kind of persona you bring behind the lens is just as important as that final final product, whether you're shooting a subject like a person or even wildlife.
00:03:35
Speaker
It's really important to kind of bring that positive energy as well. And then I would say in my nature landscape photography and and that endeavor, really what I'm trying to capture is the feeling of being in the outdoors. i try really hard in my post-production process and editing to not overdo anything because I really want it to feel like how it was when I was there And I think that comes through in the way that I approach the actual shot itself with the lighting and the composition and what I'm actually capturing in the frame itself, but also in that post-production process. I just want it to be like the memory and the feeling of being there in the outdoors.
00:04:23
Speaker
that's It's funny, it's a a different medium altogether, but that's very similar to my approach to this. um Some listeners may know i I barely edit short of the doorbell going off or the dog going nuts. I really don't edit it much because I just want it to be as authentic as the conversation itself was. I don't want it to feel manufactured. So it sounds like a very similar approach to your photography.
00:04:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I've just thought about this. ah yeah I was thinking about nature photography in terms of mountains and scenery. Do you get the chance to photograph animals much? And if so,
Finding Joy in Local Wildlife
00:05:01
Speaker
what would be your favorite memory of capturing an animal on on film?
00:05:06
Speaker
Oh, certainly. i It's a it's a bucket list dream of mine to be able to go on a trip specifically for capturing wildlife. I feel like all of my wildlife encounters have been by happenstance. They've just been lucky.
00:05:22
Speaker
Um, if I had to pick a favorite though, well, this is going to be kind of the antithesis of talking about outdoor adventure because it was actually captured in my backyard. But this actually does tie into kind of my mission of how, um, we're talking about, uh, I always am talking about how being outdoorsy looks different for everybody and you can be outdoorsy, even if you're just sitting on your back patio and join the great outdoors and And when you asked me that question, the first thought that came to my mind was the photos that I've taken of the deer in my backyard that come through almost every single day are my favorite because it is so special to me that I have this wildlife coming through my property, my yard. it just brings me joy every single day. So those photos that I've been able to capture of them in my yard are definitely my favorite wildlife ones, which is, again, funny because it's just from the comfort of my own home. But that's what I talk about all the time on my platform is that you can be outdoorsy just from your house, from your yard.
00:06:25
Speaker
love that. You don't have to far. You don't have to do something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's for many of us, it is on our doorstep. I completely agree. It reminds me of a guest I interviewed, or maybe a year ago, who moved, I wish I could remember what large metropolitan area to rural Colorado. And she's surrounded by incredible mountains. And there's, she's seen bears and all sorts of things. But the deer that walk past her house every morning, she brought that up as her favorite thing that she sees. And she's surrounded, there's an abundance of wildlife where she is.
00:06:58
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Isn't that so funny? Yeah. it just something it's It's so delightful to see them on a regular basis as well because all these different wildlife encounters that you have when you're hiking or you're camping, you know you see these animals in their habitats in this moment of time. But there's something really special about having your local wildlife that you see day in and day out and you get to see their...
00:07:23
Speaker
um their winter coat come in and you get to see, oh, you know, there's a new one that's joined the group or there was just one that came through the other day that looked like she might be pregnant. And we we're so excited that there might be a little dough running around soon. So there's something special about that familiarity as well.
00:07:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's we we live in a city, but we have some large old trees and there's some wildlife around. And the only thing we really get regularly is possums that run across our back fence every night. I'm no like fan of possums per se, but you do become emotionally attached. Like if we don't see them, We get like invested. where Where have they gone? And when we see a little one scurry across the fence, it warms my heart. Never would have thought that would happen. But you do become, there's an emotional attachment there that ah is it' not something I anticipated happening.
00:08:15
Speaker
Oh, I love that. I love that. Yeah. Who would have thought the the humble person? You know, never' got it's I worry about them when I don't see them. We'll kind of shift gears into the outdoors because that's really ah where we have connected. And you've spoken very openly about protecting public lands and ethical outdoor recreation.
00:08:35
Speaker
what What brought this journey about? Is that something that's always been with you since you were a child or is it something that came to you later on? Oh,
Path to Outdoor Advocacy and Conservation Efforts
00:08:44
Speaker
gosh, specifically the advocacy piece of it. I mean, I've always loved the outdoors and I was raised in a very like outdoorsy family and that kind of thing. So that's been ingrained in me since I was a child. But in terms of how it's manifested itself into advocacy for public lands and also educating around Leave No Trace and and ethical stewardship of the outdoors, that really came later in life because I think when you're a child, you're just kind of along for the journey. You're not really thinking too critically about the land that you're around. Obviously, you're learning to appreciate it. um And that shaped who I am today. But as I've grown up and I've become more in tune with the
00:09:27
Speaker
context in which we enjoy the outdoors and the privileges that are provided to us, I've become more acutely aware of how much is at risk and how much is at stake and how, um as I mentioned, it it it's it's such a privilege to be able to access these beautiful spaces. And in that, I started learning oh, there's a lot of things that are threatening this right now and we really need more people to make noise about this. And coming to this realization was kind of at the same time that I was really starting to talk more online about outdoor inclusivity and access and just how limited that is for people, specifically people in marginalized identities and the intersection of these two
00:10:16
Speaker
causes. mean, there's a million causes within those two umbrellas, right? But um it just became so clear to me that there was such an overlap here of um it's not only just protecting these public lands for the wildlife and for the local ecology and for all of the natural resources that are there, but also making them accessible and usable and readily available for people of all identities. There's this great overlap here. So i really, in the last year, kind of almost accidentally fell into a more active role in advocacy, specifically around some of the policy changes that were happening with the new president um in office and
00:11:04
Speaker
we started getting plugged in online more to local communities and also started getting plugged into actual people who are the boots on the ground that were being impacted by these policy changes like park rangers and national park staff and other federal agency staff, like the ah U S forest service staff that were impacted. um so around,
00:11:32
Speaker
January 2025, when all of those budget cuts and personnel cuts were happening, the quote-unquote Valentine's Day massacre that happened that just obliterated the National Park Service, um that was like this tipping moment where I was like, okay, I just...
00:11:51
Speaker
talking about this online is not quite enough. I need to really roll up my sleeves and get more involved somehow. And through online connections, you know, and all this, I got plugged into the resistance Rangers, which were a coalition of a bunch of current former um and laid off park staff that were trying to activate this movement a little bit more and actually do something else. So I raised my hand and said,
00:12:18
Speaker
I have a modest following on social media. What can I do to help? And that looked ah that manifested itself in a real-life in-person protest at Mount Rainier National Park. So I organized that and you know really rallied people around that to make some noise about, hey, great.
00:12:38
Speaker
we need to protect the people who are actually protecting these public lands and these spaces. Otherwise we're going to face some really serious consequences. So I'm kind of merging that online activism with in real life activism. And then since there, it's just kind of snowballed and continued and,
00:12:59
Speaker
I'm certainly no policy expert. I'm also not a park ranger. So all everything I've learned has been from other people. And I'm just trying to kind of translate that and use my platform and use my voice and the privileges that have been provided to me to really amplify the voices and the education that I've learned from other people and share that as widely as possible so that we can protect public lands. So That was a very long way of answering that question about the journey that I've taken. No, no. it's It's fascinating because something I did want to bring up was, and I think many people feel this way about sort social media and activism and the outdoors. and The lines can be a little blurred and there's pros and there's cons. and so I think we would all agree, let's protect the outdoors. We need to make sure that they are preserved for future generations. If somebody feels like that, you know posted about it online,
00:13:55
Speaker
Are there any next steps you can suggest for actually getting involved? I've written down the resistance ranges, so I'm certainly going to look them up. But if people do want to take that their advocacy to the next level beyond social media, what might be a good avenue to do that?
00:14:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's such a good question because I do feel like so much of this is we see people being just posting online and making a lot of noise online, which is helpful, certainly. Right. but But what can be the most impactful is actually – offline, offline activities, things that you won't see people posting about. So even though it's maybe not as glamorous or as flashy or Insta worthy, one of the most impactful things people can do is start having conversations with the people immediately in their lives about this stuff. Because at the end of the day, a lot of the policies and things that are happening are
00:14:50
Speaker
because of the people in positions of power in our government. And those people largely have been voted into those positions. And upcoming, you know, in November in the midterms, when we have opportunities to vote on local policies, when we have opportunities to make our voices heard, it's important to have those conversations with people you actually know that you're actually in community with because their vote matters. Every vote matters. Every voice matters. And a lot of the times when you're just posting stuff on social media, it goes over people's heads or they just eat quickly scroll by or if they're not already kind of plugged in and tuned in. They're not going to listen or they're just going to keep scrolling. Right. So if you have a sit down conversation with somebody who's maybe on the fence or maybe has a political leaning towards one way, but you have a lot of commonalities and common ground together, you've been out hiking together, you've gone on a camping trip together, but you know, they voted differently or something like that.
00:15:50
Speaker
You can just have a casual conversation with somebody. Like if you're just hiking and you're talking about how the trails and really rough shape, like, and it needs some maintenance, you can just be like, yeah, I know. I, I really wish that the U S forest service wasn't facing so many threats right now. And you can just kind of have a conversation about that. Or if you go to a national park together and there's a ton of trash piling up, you'll be like, gosh, I know can, I cannot believe that they lost 25% of their staff last year. Can you believe that? Like, I feel so bad for them. They're so overworked, um you know, and just kind of casually have a conversation. i think those things are more impactful for the majority of the population than anything. Because once you start actually talking about it, people find common ground, even if they have different political beliefs. So that that's huge. There's a bunch of other things that you can do if
Tangible Steps for Conservation and Activism
00:16:43
Speaker
you're... Because sometimes I'm saying that as, you know, oh, this is a small thing, but sometimes having a conversation with somebody is really hard. It's really tough. It can be, yes. Yeah. And so if you want to do stuff more individually and independently, you're... Now, you can volunteer. um You can volunteer with the National Park Service. You can volunteer with local agencies or local organizations in Washington State. For example, we have the Washington Trails Association and they do a lot of the maintenance on our local trails. And upkeep, I volunteered with them before. They're fantastic. I guarantee you, wherever your listeners are, there's a local friendly organization that has volunteering opportunities available. So while you might not be actively making policy change or changing people's votes or anything as, ah you know, directly impactful like that, getting your hands dirty and literally physically helping out helps build your connection to the land a little bit more and understand what actually goes into managing these public lands. from an actual labor perspective, which really helps you understand how important it is. um And you're also helping.
00:17:55
Speaker
um So that's that's another piece there. And um and then i would just say... showing up to vote, as as I mentioned, you know talking to people about their vote and everything. But also, I just know that a lot of people over the past several years have felt discouraged, like maybe their vote doesn't matter, maybe their voice doesn't matter. And and it really, really, really does, because a lot of these policies that are happening right now that are either um coming into play or being overturned that are putting our public lands up to threat are happening because of the people that we voted into power so your vote does matter and really understanding like researching candidates on these key issues Yes. Because voting a specific way maybe isn't necessarily always the best form. Like if you traditionally vote more conservatively and more right-leaning, there are a lot of people on that side of the house that will talk a big game about voting.
00:18:54
Speaker
about ah making the most out of America's lands and extracting value out of our public lands, which sounds really hopeful and promising. But if you dig a little bit deeper and find out exactly what that means, a lot of the times that's really taught there.
00:19:15
Speaker
They're using that as kind of ah a way to put lipstick on a pig when it comes to exploitation and privatization. which then closes off access for recreation. It also means ah less protections for the natural resources that they can extract in the future. So I would encourage you to just dig a little bit deeper There was a study, and I can send you the link to it so that you can share it with your listeners. yeah there was There was a study that went out. It was a survey of of Trump voters versus, um I believe it was Biden voters. It might have been Harris voters, but the two sides of the political spectrum. right And it was, do you support the protection of public lands? And overwhelmingly, the majority of both sides of the political spectrum said yes. It's like, we're aligned. Right. We're aligned. Right, yes. The deep dark secret. We're actually a lot more alike in many ways than I care to believe.
00:20:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it's it really, it's difficult but simple at the same time. You're right. Exactly. So much of what you're saying resonates with something in our local area. Like I said, i'm in a city of 160,000, I think. and But we have a large preservation area with a beautiful three-mile wooded hike that goes around it, a large creek, and it's under threat.
00:20:39
Speaker
There's rumors going around that it's somewhere's trying to buy it for apartments, which I don't think is true because it's a huge creek. But there is talk about a water treatment facility, and the water's going to run off into the creek down to a much bigger lake, so it will be closed to the public.
00:20:55
Speaker
You try to Google it and you you just get lost in legalese and forms that don't really make sense. And it's not referred to by name. It's this number. So trying to have these conversations does open doors to people who do know about these things and they understand this language and can steer me in the right direction, which is what I'm doing now.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think you touched on something really important too, is just approaching things with curiosity and asking questions. There's so much stuff I don't know anything about. But a lot of the stuff that... Oh, yeah. I mean, a lot of... I talk very openly about this. I share a lot of educational resources on my platform. But that's after I've done a lot of research and talked to a lot of people because I don't know. And I am also not the boots on the ground, the people that are actually directly impacted by this a lot of the time. I'm not a National Park employee. I am not, you know, my my job is not at risk. I am not... actively interacting with the public on a daily basis in one of these you know overcrowded understaffed parks. But I'm speaking with rangers and trying to understand where they're coming from, what's going on. a lot of, like you said, the legalese stuff, I'm like, I have no idea what this means.
00:22:09
Speaker
But I have friends who do. Yes. Yes. I talk to them and and I ask questions. And I think that's really important for us to lean on to is is ah asking questions, being curious and being open minded to having your opinion changed as well.
00:22:27
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. it' ah I think it is very important to go in with that that attitude of, i'm not I'm not trying to be right. I'm trying to get educated, be curious, and come to the best conclusion I can ah for the land, for nature, for the areas we're trying to protect.
00:22:45
Speaker
I couldn't agree more. um As we kind of come right to the end of this conversation, I do have three questions I would love to ask you that I've not told you in advance. um In respect to your the outdoors and your advocacy um work, how would you define success and has that possibly changed over time?
Redefining Success in Outdoor Advocacy
00:23:07
Speaker
Oh, gosh. Yeah. I mean, if you talk to 2015, 2016, Madeline, my definition of success was was living in the city, working for a PR agency. And, you know, I had all these accomplishments in my head that I would list off to you. Success to me now ah is more about how I'm making people feel.
00:23:32
Speaker
So it's not a list of accomplishments or what even my career necessarily is. Right now, the way that I'm viewing success is, am I making the outdoors a more welcoming, approachable, and accessible place for people who traditionally have not felt that way? And if the answer is yes, then I feel like I'm being successful. If the answer is no, or I'm doing something or falling into the trap of something that is exclusionary or elitist or not helpful, um then I feel like I'm failing. And so whenever I'm working on any kind of project or I'm pursuing any kind of goal, I'm trying to align it with how am I making people feel in the outdoor community? And am I being ah
00:24:22
Speaker
helpful to other people and to the land. ah And that's really my kind of woo wooey heartfelt way of saying that's how I view success now. I love it. And I've done 50, 60 episodes, 50 episodes, I think of this podcast. And so many times the story is it was money. It was the city. It was the job in the suit.
00:24:47
Speaker
And now it's out in nature and it's never once been the other way around. Not that that will surprise either of us, but not a single time has success changed trajectory and gone towards money and the job and business and promotion. It's always the other way. And I think that's a, it's a good reminder and life lesson for all of us there.
00:25:09
Speaker
I love that. That's so great. And yeah, I'm not, I'm not surprised at all, but it's nice to hear too. Right. It's nice to be reaffirmed almost every week when I have a conversation with somebody. That's the way it goes. My second question for you is, and I know there may be many answers to this, but what book has been particularly impactful in your life?
00:25:30
Speaker
What
Inspirational Reads for Outdoor Enthusiasts
00:25:31
Speaker
book? And I will say not necessarily the best book, but a book that has had a strong impact on your life.
00:25:41
Speaker
Oh, my gosh, that is a great question. Um, I'm big rereader. So I will reread books that mean a lot to me. too. Yes, quite a bit. Yes. Um, so there's, there's, there's a handful of them. I'm looking at my bookshelf right now. And I'm like, Oh, gosh, which one? Which one do I want to talk about right now? Um, in terms of being the most impactful?
00:26:11
Speaker
um I I think I would have to say the book called Untamed by Glennon Doyle. Okay, I don't know Untamed.
00:26:23
Speaker
So Glennon Doyle um wrote this book called Untamed that is basically all about what I talk about you know a lot on my platform is is taking up space and being unapologetically you and like reclaiming your identity. And that's what she talks a lot about in this book. um And that is one that actually i say I reread a lot of these books that are important to me. That's one on my list that I need to reread. I actually just recently bought like a companion workbook with it. wow i remember I remember reading that.
00:26:59
Speaker
right around the time that I went on my first ever solo camping trip. And i was really scared. And I actually, i have a picture of me in a hammock reading that book.
00:27:13
Speaker
And I remember being very nervous to go out and start solo camping on my own and reading this book. And It wasn't one of those moments where it just was a light bulb flash, you know, and everything changed in my life. Right. But it was one of those things where I just felt like I was gradually putting on armor as I read this book. And this armor was going to protect me against all of those fears that I had going out and adventuring on my own. And I felt so much more empowered, both in my outdoor pursuits and in all my other personal and professional pursuits after reading this book. So if I had to think of, yeah, the most impactful book I've read, I think that would be it.
00:27:56
Speaker
I love it. Well, I'm certainly going to look that up because that is not one that is ah familiar to me. My final question for you is, if you could choose somebody to go for a long walk in the mountains with to take pictures and pick their brain for a day, who would it be?
Influences and Ideal Hiking Companions
00:28:13
Speaker
Now, this can be famous, not famous, dead, alive, somebody you know, somebody you've never met, anybody who's ever existed. Who would you like to go for a walk in the mountains with and snap some pictures?
00:28:25
Speaker
My dad. I love it. this is yeah This is probably the least interesting answer for your listeners, but absolutely my dad. He is the person that got me into the outdoors. i actually, on my podcast, interviewed him and talked to him about what that looked like. you know He raised three daughters to all love and appreciate the outdoors. He was a mountaineer, but also... had this way of bringing the outdoors down to this like really accessible, comfortable level that was approachable for us as, as young women. ah And I just, any opportunity I have to be in outdoors with him amazing.
00:29:06
Speaker
a delight. I took him on a camping trip a few years back and it was one of the highlights of like my decade. ah i just, I would love to just always have a hike planned or a camping trip planned with him to pick his brain about all of his adventures as an outdoorsman and just as an individual, because I owe everything that I am today and my appreciation for the great outdoors to how he, he raised us. So, yeah, that's absolutely who I would go for a long walk wow and take pictures with. Yeah. I have to tell you that ah dads are the number one answer. Would you believe over that comes across an awful dads and then moms and Jane Goodall tend to come in. So they're gather in good company. great list yeah Yeah, exactly. A great list indeed.
Connecting with Madeline: Social Media and More
00:29:55
Speaker
Well, Madeline, this has been a pleasure. If people want to find out more about what you do, perhaps ask questions about outdoor advocacy. Where can they find you
00:30:03
Speaker
Sure, you can find me at Madeline Wilson photo on any platform, Instagram, TikTok, threads, I think Pinterest, YouTube, it's the same thing on all of them, Madeline Wilson photo. And then you can also find, my podcast is on a brief break right now, but it's called Outdoor Z. So ah you can find that just on any podcast platform by searching Outdoor Z and looking for the pink logo.
00:30:31
Speaker
And you can also follow us over on Patreon. If you become a Patreon subscriber, you get access to my Discord community too. And this thing that I created called Cozy Camping Club, which is a inclusive, accessible, really low key,
00:30:48
Speaker
in person community if you're based in Washington state or even want to travel for it um that gives you access to all that as well so that's patreon.com slash outdoorsy got a bunch of different things going on in all those different places i would say the best place to learn about advocacy of what's going on with our public lands is on Instagram and TikTok. That's where I'm publishing a lot about that. And then I will do more in-depth deep dives about current issues on my blog, which is madelinewilson.com or excuse me.
00:31:22
Speaker
Madeline Wilson.org. You will find my blog there and get some more in-depth resources. I always include all of the external links to all of my sources and everything there. So I'll do like a breakdown of topics that are currently trending or things that are happening facing our public lands. But then I'll link out to all of the resources that you can find if you want to sink your teeth in a little bit more there. So lots of different places, lots of different learning formats. Yeah. Depending on what works for you. ah But yeah, thank you. I hope to i hope to see all y'all over on all those pages and stuff. And shoot me a comment or or a message if if you found me through this podcast, because I'd love to know.
00:32:03
Speaker
Fantastic. Well, Madeline, I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I love talking with you.
00:32:12
Speaker
Thank you again to this week's guest and I hope today's episode was as enjoyable for you as it was for me and perhaps even inspired your next adventure. If you did enjoy the show, please be sure to subscribe, leave a review or follow us wherever you get your podcasts. You can find more information at theoutdoorsyeducator.com or follow us on Instagram, TikTok or Facebook. Until next time, thank you so much for listening to The Outdoorsy Educator Podcast.