Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Outdoorsy Educator Podcast, where stories become lessons and every journey has something to teach us. Every week I sit down with people from all walks of life to hear their adventures, explore their experiences, and uncover the insights that have shaped them along the way.
Speaker: Whether it's from the outdoors, the classroom, or any other path, each conversation offers a fresh perspective on learning, growth, and what it means to truly connect with the world and the people around us.
Speaker: And on this week's episode of the Outdoorsy Educator podcast, we have ah REI Guide of the Year 2024 and founder of Trails Diverge, Trish Shales. Trish, how are you today?
Speaker: I'm doing great. How about you? Good. Wonderful. Thank you for reaching out. I'm so glad that we've been able to connect. Why don't you tell our audience a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Speaker: Yeah, my name is Trisha Hills. My pronouns are she, her, and I am the founder of Trails Diverged. As you mentioned, I was a guide with ah REI for three, four years. And before that, I worked in wilderness therapy um and I've been guiding for about six years now professionally.
Speaker: um And my focus is more of an outdoor educator. So ah i really emphasize beginners and keeping them safe, teaching them about sustainability and leave no trace um and helping them feel confident so that they want to go back outside again.
Speaker: i love that. Well, let's why do we take this back to the beginning? What first sparked your love of the outdoors and who first invited you into that world? Oh, so i grew up outside Detroit, Michigan, so I didn't have a lot of outdoor access. And then as an adult, when I went through college, I saw that there were backpacking trips and um I couldn't afford to take it as a credit class. But what I discovered with some digging was that you could audit a class. which means that you don't get college credit for it, but you can pay a very little amount of money to go on the trip itself. You still do all of the homework and everything. but You just don't get college credit.
Speaker: and So I went on a few of those trips when I was in college, and that was really my first time getting outside and um getting to do some of these things. And i wouldn't have had access otherwise. So and that definitely sparked an interest. And then, um Somewhere in my adult life, I ended up living out in Maryland.
Speaker: And so I was living very close to the Appalachian Trail. And I did a few hikes on there. And it was just always in my mind. of course, I read the Bill Bryson book back in college or late high school. And that was on my mind. And I just always had the seed that someday I would do that. And um eventually, i decided that someday needed to happen sooner or later. and in 2017, I threw a hike to the Appalachian Trail. and A lot of things came up on that trail, but one of them was that I need to have a life outdoors and my life needs to be based outdoors and i need to figure out a way to make that happen. So.
Speaker: I love that. um Listeners of this podcast will know that one of the set one of several anchors of what I talk about with guests inevitably is the Appalachian Trail. I've done day hikes and a couple of overnight hikes on it. I've been to the Trail Days Festival and connected with a lot of people through the AT. And like you, that was really sparked by reading... I walk in the woods and it's a book that I listen to time and time again because it's just, I find it's it's hilarious, it's inspiring, it's all the things I want it to be.
Speaker: absolutely I'd love to, I've got so many questions for you, but I thought what what better place to start than with the the mission statement that's on your website because I think this leads to a lot of questions. and I'll just read it quickly.
Speaker: You've written that we believe everyone has the right to explore and experience the great outdoors. We also know that having the right gear, knowledge and access can be restricted by financial barriers. We are working to remove these barriers but by providing gear and guiding services to engage income restricted youth. Now, this speaks to my heart, my wife's heart. This is we we work with in education. What one knows Title One schools, usually low income schools. So this really will speak to to our heart. And I was wondering what really drove that um that demographic for you ah to work with.
Speaker: Absolutely. Well, I think with most people that have kind of a personal mission, it's personal, right? Something that you've experienced or you've seen ah in your surroundings, in your environment. And like I mentioned, I didn't have that access growing up. So, um you know, I got i worked really hard, worked.
Speaker: I've always worked multiple jobs and simultaneously and got a lot of scholarships to go to college. But I would have never. been able to do that um financially. And I never would have been able to experience the outdoors financially if I hadn't discovered that loophole of auditing a class. And um so I really didn't have most of my outdoor experiences until I was an adult.
Speaker: And I just, they changed my life so drastically um that I want people to be able to have that experience at a younger age so that they can embrace that. There's so much, and now there's actually science to prove, right, that there's healing that's happening in nature. Before we just thought we were, you know, mentally escaping all of our emails and our pings and everything, and that was kind of decompressing. But now there's actual science that shows, you know, trees send out chemicals that actually change our physiology, right? And so we are finding out more and more that this isn't just woo-woo, right? Like this is real. And um a lot of people don't have access to that. And there's and some research, and I can't remember the exact statistics, but how many people don't even live within a range of being able to access a park?
Speaker: just a nature park, not even like getting out in the forest or getting out in the desert. You can't even go to a park. um We have so many fees. You know, you have your $10, our state parks here just increased to $10 per day for a parking fee. So not only do you have to have the transportation to get to the park,
Speaker: you then have to pay the $10. And for a lot of people, $10 is, oh, no big deal. But for ah many people, that is completely out of reach. $10 is, you know, half your grocery budget for the Absolutely. And um there's just like a vast gap there of um understanding of how many people are restricted by those entry fees.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. And if they did have $10, it might not be a top priority because as you said, it's groceries, it's putting fuel in the car. It's all of those things. And that doesn't even include all of the gear you need to go out and now do that activity. Most people, myself included, could not afford the $1,000 you have to spend to get backpacking gear just to try it and see if you like it.
Speaker: And you don't even know if you're going like it. So why would that be a priority for you in your budget? it's just um It's just unattainable for a lot of people. Oh, absolutely. um i mean, you can spend a ridiculous amount of money, when especially when you don't really know what you need. Do you think you need a B and c um I've talked to ah several people who are looking at ah gear libraries and trying to create those in the local area. um And also to touch on a point that you've ah you've brought up, I've also spoken to, it's more and more people who work in the mental health field who are offering outdoor therapy, outdoor classes. Instead of sitting in an office, they're going for quarter mile, half mile walk in nature.
Speaker: And the research is starting to be developed and show it is, as you said, it's not just woo woo. There's science, you know, that there is actually something there. um And the brilliant thing I like is even if there wasn't something scientific, just feedback from people is I prefer this. I find that I can open up and that that's enough.
Speaker: But there is actually something chemical and scientific going on. and one of the therapist therapists I spoke to for this podcast talked about using nature as a metaphor. And it made it easier for people to open up and understand what perhaps they are going through. And I think that's ah a really, really beautiful thing.
Speaker: Yes, yeah. My trail family and I definitely have a lot of metaphors surrounding Mother Nature and, um you know, some of them, you know,
Speaker: climbing to the top of a mountain, especially on the AT t where you're often socked in and it's often raining. There's so many times that you climb and you put in so much work and sweat equity and you get to the top and there's no view.
Speaker: It's fog and you have worked so hard to get this reward of the view at the top and it's not there. and And that can be extremely disappointing for people. And I also think it's a metaphor for life, right? Sometimes we work so hard for something with this great expectation.
Speaker: And what we choose to do when that expectation isn't achieved um is the same as on trail, right? Like you can pout, you can stomp your feet, you can turn back around and say, I'm never going back there again. Or you can try again, or you can keep going and see if you get a view the next time. um It's just all part of it. I love that. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's how you view it and how you handle it that's that's going to make the difference.
Speaker: So I wanted to ask you about Trails Diverge, because I think if you have a passion for you know helping people access the outdoors, access the wilderness, you might look for a charity, a company, something that's doing it. You decided to do this on your own and to found the Trails Diverge. What made you make that decision?
Speaker: Yeah, so i always I always knew that I was going to have some sort of nonprofit. um And we are, i am in the process. I am trying to get a gear library going, by the way. Oh, right. I'm stuck in the paperwork process right now to have officially a nonprofit. But that has... That's what's in my heart, right?
Speaker: um I was working for a REI Experiences, as I mentioned, as a guide, and they closed nationwide about a year and a half ago. And I had the opportunity then and there to purchase all of the guiding gear from them.
Speaker: So I went out, pled the case, got a huge business loan, bought all the gear. And so now I have all of the things. I have the kayaks and the paddle boards and the backpacking setups and everything.
Speaker: um everything. have so much job. So um the guiding portion, I'm mainly working with like community colleges and things like that. Right. I do have a giant business loan that I have to pay somehow. However, the ultimate goal is to be able to get more people out for free. And what we do, um what i do is i offer free events multiple times per month. So I do free bike rides on Mondays. I do free community group walk runs on Tuesdays. And then I did like a collaboration with our local Pride Alliance to do a full free full moon hike.
Speaker: um I've done some BIPOC group stuff. And so each month we kind of rotate what we're doing, but we always have the bike rides and the walks so that we have an opportunity to get people out and see what the community needs are um and then create trips based around those. So.
Speaker: I love that perspective that you're not just saying, hey, we're doing all this wonderful stuff, come to us, but you're obviously listening and got your finger on the pulse of what the community needs, which I think is such a key component that could be overlooked.
Speaker: Absolutely. Yes. Now, I was thinking about the people who will come to you for the first time, but what's some of the biggest fears that beginners may carry into their first hike, their first wilderness experience? And how do you help move people from fear to confidence?
Speaker: and Yes. um So I'll use a backpacking trip as an example, because I think that's the one where it's most palpable. So I'm meeting these people for the first time and I pick them all up and I'm distributing gear and everybody brings their personal items. Everything else is provided.
Speaker: And they're they're afraid of being cold or hot or having too much stuff. They're afraid of not having enough to eat. They're afraid of bears and other wildlife, i afraid of getting lost. And so there's all of this like static like you can it really is palpable they're like what about this what about this what about this and you can see the nerves and you can feel it and as they're packing and um deciding what to bring and what to leave behind and their packs are huge because they're trying to bring everything and you're gonna that's going on you you right here we're not carrying this for you yeah and um i would say
Speaker: As we progress, and a lot of those things are alleviated, right? Because I go through what to do if there's a bear. I tell them what I'm going to do and what they're going to do.
Speaker: And we talk through that process, right? And there's still nerves there because it's the unknown. This is something I've never experienced before. I've never seen a bear. I've never heard a bear, but I know they're out there. And I see these stories on the internet about what they do. And so um all of these things are bubbling and One of the other big fears is I can't do this.
Speaker: So a lot of people come in with, I can't do this. And immediately when we start walking with our heavy packs on our backs, there's, I don't think I can do this. I think I might need to turn around. And at that point we take a break, we talk through things, we get some water, we get some food and we start moving a little more. And um it's extremely common.
Speaker: I mean, you're using muscle groups that you've never used before. You're using stabilizer muscles that you're not used to activating. And you've got a pack on your back that you're not used to carrying.
Speaker: And um a lot of people have that. I don't think I can do this. So with our beginners trips, we keep them really short. So it's not very much mileage. And the goal there is to show you you can do this. And now you're at camp.
Speaker: And now we're going to have this delicious food and we're going to see this amazing view and we're going to kick our feet up. And um so I think, oh, well, you know, I see fears about water. There's there's just so much. And as we go and as people see that, yes, I can do this.
Speaker: And I trust my guide because I can see like she has actually researched this thing. You know, I explain what are we doing if there's a wildfire, Right. I have, I spend so much time researching our routes beforehand. I have escape routes planned and I show them this. I'm like, this is what we're going to do.
Speaker: If there's a fire, if there's emergency, this is our fastest way out. And a lot of people don't come with a map reading experience, map and compass experience, but seeing that they can't,
Speaker: see that I have a plan and that I've thought this through and um that I have all this giant medical kit with everything you can possibly think of, um you can see them start to relax and then they start learning. And as they start learning and they start trying new things, you can see them get more excited and less fearful.
Speaker: And they start trying things like filtering their own water. And then there's like micro successes of like, I did this. And then there's another micro success. Like I climbed that hill. Look how far we just walked up. Right. And so they have this visual representation of how hard they just worked and how much they accomplished. and it's surrounding them. And then they're rewarded with beauty, you know, so. Yeah.
Speaker: It's so's a lot. but it's trying to compare but this It's just amazing. It's so amazing. and I love that. I love micro success. that' I'm going to steal that from you and use that in all walks of life because that's a great phrase, one that I'll be using. I imagine a lot of these people are, you know, they're naturally looking to you to be the leader and looking for strong leadership. And something I was curious about was how your leadership style has changed. I assume the first time you took out a group of people, there was probably some nerves and you probably reflect on that and think I would have maybe done this a little differently or that a little differently. How is your leadership style and your, you know, your guidance changed?
Speaker: Yeah, um I would say it's constantly changing, right? And I ah had the fortunate experience of when I first started guiding, being with some amazing co-guides and a culture of feedback. And feedback can be extremely challenging for people to give and accept. And I will always be working on that because we tend to get, we tend to take feedback really personal, right? and get defensive.
Speaker: um And that's, I'm saying we as just like a generalization of a human, right? and Like there's something wrong with me. No, there's not necessarily something wrong with me, but is there something I can do better? Is there a way that I can grow?
Speaker: And when I'm teaching you guides, what we talk about with feedback is before we say something, are we saying it because we're annoyed with the person and we don't like something that they did because it's not the way that we would do it? Or are we saying it because maybe there was a safety issue or um a discomfort and doing something a little bit different or considering changing something would benefit everyone?
Speaker: And so that's kind of the cutoff line of whether you decide to give feedback or not. Like, is this just because I'm irritated or is this actually important and could help people?
Speaker: um And so... We give feedback among ourselves as guides constantly. And I received a lot of really great feedback when I was growing, when I was a baby guide. And that's definitely shaped me. And I also encourage my clients to give feedback.
Speaker: And I can tell you that some of the changes that I've made. So when I was working for corporations, I didn't have as much leeway. Right. There was certain things I had to do certain ways. um And there was a lot of things I couldn't change.
Speaker: What I love about working for myself is I can change something immediately. If something's not working, there's no red tape like this is what we're doing. We're changing this. This didn't And um an example would be, I mentioned I do full moon hikes, right? And I always tell people these are for beginners, right? So we have people, i had somebody that was on their first hike ever and chose to come on a night hike a few months ago under the full moon.
Speaker: And so, although we cater for beginners, we also often attract people that are more experienced. And so we have a great divide in pace and ah endurance levels on these trips.
Speaker: And this was something I had when I was working with corporations where we would get feedback where one group of people are saying, we go way too slow. Why do we take so many breaks? Like, let's go. Let's we want our exercise. And then we have another group of people saying we went too fast. I barely got a break. Like I felt like every time I caught my breath, we were going again. Right. And so my first full moon hike of this season, i received that same message.
Speaker: feedback at both sides, too fast, too slow, too many breaks, too few breaks. And it's easy for a corporation to be dismissive of that, right? That's just the way it is. We told you it was a beginner trip.
Speaker: You would just have to deal with it. And I sat with that and thought about it and said, there is no reason why we can't split into different pace groups. We always have a minimum of two guides for safety.
Speaker: so Each group can be with a guide and we have radios so that we can can communicate with each other throughout the hike. We're on the same trail. We both know the trail, like the back of our hand. There's no reason we can't split into pace groups. So that's what we're doing now. And um yeah, so I guess that's an example of how my leadership has been able to change and evolve um when I don't have as many like barriers to changing my leadership style.
Speaker: I love that. it's I was just thinking, this had literally happened two hours ago. I i do another podcast for fun. a friend and I review Friends episodes from the TV show. um And I released an episode earlier this week. I didn't realize the audio cut out in the middle ah for a little bit. So a friend of mine, a good, good friend, and that's important to know, he's a really good friend, reached out. And we talk all the time about podcasting and things.
Speaker: And he was like, oh, please take this. the Don't take this the wrong way. Please, please, please take this the right way. But you couldn't hear what was being said for a chunk of this podcast. So I had to skip forward.
Speaker: And it was funny. We had to have this very brief conversation where I had to say to him, look, I know if you ever say something like that to me. It's solution orientated. You're looking out for me. You're looking out for the podcast. It's not a criticism, you know, but yeah, it's it's very interesting giving feedback. It's what angle is the person giving the feedback from and are you in a place you are not going to get defensive, which is a struggle.
Speaker: But in a place where you can absorb it because they, you know, they're actually looking out for you. You know, they want you to be even better and help you out. And I just hadn't realized it's not like I knew it was bad and just released it anyway. So I was really thankful for that constructive, positive feedback because I knew where he was coming from.
Speaker: Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. It was a just funny that that just happened this morning. I'd like to pivot just a hair to the left. You volunteer with this with ah the Pacific Northwest Search and Rescue. This is a world I know nothing about. You know, I can imagine, but i really don't know. I'd love to know what drew you to that and what it kind of involves as a volunteer.
Speaker: Yeah. and um So I first got involved with a different search and rescue organization. I was living in Minnesota um and i just saw a social media post like, hey, we need help. This person's missing anybody that can come look, come look.
Speaker: And I went out a few times for that organization and that was um very grassroots and there was no formal like search and rescue team. um And then as my life as a guide, I was moving around a lot. I've lived in a lot of different states and it was always in the back of my mind that I really wanted to get on a search and rescue team.
Speaker: And. and It was really difficult because there's an extreme amount of time commitment for training out here in the West. It's a lot different than Minnesota. Minnesota is flat. I was walking through cornfields, walking around rivers. um And out here, we have much different terrain that is not as forgiving as a cornfield.
Speaker: um And so they have a very strict training regimen. And I read through everything and needed to get to a point in my life where I could commit to that time ah commitment. And so i finally got there and was able to go through it. And I love it.
Speaker: It's amazing. The most amazing group of humans that you'll ever meet. These people, you know, middle of the night, Christmas, snow, rain, it doesn't matter. These people are there for you. and um,
Speaker: getting to be involved with a group like that, being surrounded by people that truly care and truly want to help and are willing to commit to all of this training to be extremely prepared and be able to be helpful is just um like, I have chills just thinking about it. Like, it's amazing. It's an amazing group of people.
Speaker: I was just thinking, I imagine, you know as you said, it can be tough, you know time, day, and night, holidays. Exactly. But you must see the best of humanity. You absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. i mean Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, and I think we can all do with that from time to time. um yeah the wild The world is not a bad place. There are wonderful people out there. yeah' sure I imagine it's kind of bucket filling, as tough as it might be physically and emotionally at times, also incredibly fulfilling volunteer work.
Speaker: Yes, and I think um a lot of us have a lot of outdoor skills that we've accumulated through various experiences, and this is like the opportunity to put those to use for like a really good cause um and actually be helpful in making a difference in the world with all of these random skills that we've accumulated that don't translate desk jobs or anything else. Right. Right.
Speaker: yeah I love it. um How do you stay calm when everyone else is anxious, worried, panicking? I'm sure that maybe internally you've had some sort freak out moments, but when you're leading a group, you have to have ah a persona and stay calm. What helps you stay in that right mindset?
Speaker: Um... I guess I can't think of one little thing, but knowing that I am the one taking care of people um is very, and you just got to get it done. I don't know. can't think of like one characteristic, but I can say, you know, there's definitely been situations where people are really anxious and I can feel that, um feel that like,
Speaker: rumbly energy and i can definitely say that inside my head I've got 500 tabs open and that's it all that's not just guiding or search and rescue or anything like that that's always right right there's a lot of tabs ah open and they're all running at once and um when I'm guiding I'm constantly risk assessing like I'm super hyper aware of all of my surroundings the river crossings coming up this you know the I heard a noise. There's this, I'm just like thinking about that person in the back that told me about their old ankle injury from 1999. You know, like there's so many things that I'm thinking about at all times.
Speaker: Um, I don't know, I don't know, but I do get a lot of feedback that like people can't, they're like, you're always so calm. And so I know that even internally, if I'm thinking about all of those things, I do stay calm on the outside and that's reassuring to other people and that brings their level of anxiety down.
Speaker: But I don't have an answer as to the how or the why. Perfect. I can relate to it. If I need to do something for myself, like be calm in a situation, I find that much tougher than if somebody else needs me to be calm. I'm not sure quite quite what the terminology would be for it. But when I need to do it for somebody else,
Speaker: I find it a little easier. um I'm not quite sure why. I can't find the words either. um it's It's an interesting phenomenon, though, when you need to do it for a group.
Speaker: Maybe it's the teacher in me. if I find it a little easier. As we kind of round the corner here to the home stretch, I've got three questions that I always ask my guests unprompted. And the first one is about success. We all want to be successful, whatever that looks like and whatever that means. And I was curious as it related to your journey from school and guiding, how your definition of success has changed.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So I had a little bit of a thought when I was on the Appalachian Trail about how, and I was 33, think, when i was hiking, how I thought that at that point in my life,
Speaker: I would be a doctor and I would have this and I would have that. And I was nowhere near that point in my life. And, um, it's easy to beat yourself up when you haven't met those expectations that you set for yourself. And, um,
Speaker: I think that they're, I'll throw it back to the micro successes, right? Like we tend to get focused, hyper fixated on these big things that we have or have not achieved and overlook all of the little things that we've achieved.
Speaker: And um now I, to be completely. To be honest, I kind of had the thought that when ah REI experiences closed, all of these people had their trips canceled. And I thought, well, I've got all the gear, I've got all the guides, so I'm just going to hop right in. They'll come on my trips. And I completely neglected that nobody knows we exist. It did not quite turn out that way. And um it's been a real struggle getting the word out and
Speaker: um I was have been wrestling for a while with some of the tough decisions, right? of Can I do this? Can I carry this on? This is not turned out the way that I had hoped it would by now.
Speaker: And I was doing some organization. And of course, we have a liability waiver that people have to fill out. And um I was looking at my stack of liability waivers, which is, you know, this p and that's been a year and a half. And i was like, I need to have gratitude for this. Like, this is how many people that got outside that I got to interact with that had their first experience outside and I was able to help them have a good experience and walk alongside them um and make sure that like they enjoyed their time outdoors and that they wanted to do it again. And had I not taken this incredibly huge risk, those people may not have gotten outside.
Speaker: And so um while I would love to say that, like, I've been a booming success immediately, you know, all these people came on trips with me. That's not true. That didn't happen. But what did happen is that the small groups of people that have gone out um had that opportunity that they may not have had otherwise. And that's success. Right.
Speaker: And so I had to kind of reframe that. And I think that we constantly have to reframe success or else we'll constantly be disappointed. Right. Exactly. Because we have big dreams, they have big plans. We're humans. We want like all of these things in life and um we only have so much time. So ah doing the most with the time that we have and making it count is success.
Speaker: I love that. i'm thinking of this stack of papers, you the waivers, yeah've and how many of those people have or will have children that they maybe take out and the child is apprehensive and they will reflect back on their time with you and that legacy that you are leaving by doing the work that you are doing. Exactly. And they know how to be safe and they know how to poop in the woods. You know, all these yeah things that they wouldn't have known. And now they get to pass it on to other people. So.
Speaker: I love that. So you've mentioned at the beginning of this podcast, a walk in the woods, a staple of the outdoor community. yeah that That could be your answer here. But I was wondering what book has been most impactful on your life. It might not be the greatest book or the best book, but one that you kind of go back to either to read or back in your mind time and time again.
Speaker: Hmm. That's a good one. I'm a pretty big reader. So there's a lot of books that have impacted me. I will say that um one that comes to mind right now, well, two, I guess, um The Alchemist is a you know fabulous book. And The Four Agreements is one that I constantly go back to because I think that that one is a good one to reframe your life when you think about, especially not taking things personal. Anybody that has a lot of anxiety, social anxiety, or anxiety,
Speaker: Anything really like you can really take things personal and it can eat away at you. And so going back to that book, I find myself to almost be a different person when I am in the wilderness than I am in society, right? Because in the wilderness is where I feel at home and I feel like myself and I'm stinky and I'm dirty and nobody cares. And I'm just a self-sufficient, you know? And then we come in back into society and we have all of these other people's expectations placed on us and we have to appear a certain way. And I think that can be like a tug of war of wrestling with like who you are and
Speaker: um the input that you get from other people. And so that one is one that I read, reread on a you know, every couple years basis. um I'm also struggling to think of ah one of the books that the title, but there's a World War Two book about retaining hope and when there is no hope to be found. And how do you find that hope when it doesn't exist?
Speaker: um And so I think that, do you know which one? It's Viktor Frankl, but I cannot think of the title right now. I don't, but I'm going to look it up. This is saving me. I need more coffee.
Speaker: um But there's, yeah, there's a lot. um But yes, Walk in the Woods gets, it gets a lot of um negative feedback from people. But I will honestly say, I don't know that if I ever would have heard of the Appalachian Trail if I hadn't read that book. So yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I find myself defending it from time to time. i I collect copies of it. um It's got different um jackets on on depending where around the world it was released. So if I ever travel somewhere, I'm always looking for a new cover and collect them because it I love it. And it's not meant to be this definitive guide. it's not that you know it's I don't know. I don't quite understand the criticism of it. I was like that with the um Stephen King, the Dark Tower series.
Speaker: I love that series. And I would pick up every garage sale copy. So I had all of these different copies. I had this dream of having a big library someday. But then I moved into a van. And had to cherry pick my favorite ones to keep. And it's just a very small stack now. Yes, everything's on the Kindle. Is it Men's Search for Meaning?
Speaker: That's the one. All right. That's a yes. Absolutely. We didn't want to leave leave you or the listeners hanging. um My final question for you is if you could have anybody in the world, this could be famous, not famous, somebody you know, somebody you don't know, somebody dead, somebody alive, anyone who's ever existed, sign up for one of your hikes and you get to guide them through the wilderness. Who would you like to take with you?
Speaker: Oh, my goodness. Yeah. ah Again, you may have lots of answers, but you know, who who comes to mind?
Speaker: You get to pick their brain. You get to ask them whatever it is you would like to ask. Free range, you and this person out for a day.
Speaker: think I would take Steve Irwin because I could learn so much from him. Can you imagine how amazing that would be? He's probably one of the few people you could go for a 10-mile hike with and come out more energized than you went in.
Speaker: I know, and we'd probably be there all day because he would teach me so much. Right, that's a brilliant idea. Every couple feet, he'd probably have something to show me. that would That's an incredible answer. I think that would that be a fantastic day.
Speaker: i I love it. Well, as we round this up, where can people find you if they want to ask you questions about what it is you do, about search and rescue, about Trails Diverged, anything like that? How can people reach out to you?
Speaker: Yes, absolutely. um So trailsdiverge.com, trailsdiverge.gmail if you want to shoot me an email. And I do have a lot of free resources on that website as well. I'm going to put my plug in to always take your 10 essentials, even if you're going on a day hike. And that is coming from the search and rescue volunteer in me and and the guide in me. Please take your 10 essentials. If you don't know what those are, you can check out the link on my website. It's free and you can learn and be safe. I love it. Well, Trish, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for spending this time with me this morning.
Speaker: Thank you for having me.
Speaker: Thank you again to this week's guest and I hope today's episode was as enjoyable for you as it was for me and perhaps even inspired your next adventure. If you did enjoy the show, please be sure to subscribe, leave a review or follow us wherever you get your podcasts. You can find more information at theoutdoorsyeducator.com or follow us on Instagram, TikTok or Facebook. Until next time, thank you so much for listening to The Outdoorsy Educator Podcast.
