Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Outdoorsy Educator podcast, where stories become lessons and every journey has something to teach us. Every week I sit down with people from all walks of life to hear their adventures, explore their experiences, and uncover the insights that have shaped them along the way.
Speaker: Whether it's from the outdoors, the classroom, or any other path, each conversation offers a fresh perspective on learning, growth, and what it means to truly connect with the world and the people around us.
Speaker: And on this week's episode of the Outdoorsy Educator podcast, we have James Lee from James Visits Museums. James, how are you today? I'm doing well, thank you. are you? Oh, doing very well, man. Thank you for being here. Why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?
Speaker: Yeah, no problem at all. So my name is Dr. James Lees. I am a physicist, science communicator, and now weird museum man. ah So I do all sorts of weird and wonderful things. So my actual formal education, if you'd like, is as a physicist. I was a physics lecturer, um but I'm also a science communicator as well as that. So that can be everything and anything that has been from, you know, books, um youtube uh tv workshops schools all the way to dressing up as 17th century scientists and prancing around a house in damask waistcoats and stockings for a weekend and so just sort of anything really that helps communicate science don't we all isn't that
Speaker: Well, I mean, a fantastic and interesting background. I came across you, as many people will have on Instagram through your channel, James Visits Museums, which is just, not only is it fascinating, it speaks to my heart a little bit. My wife and I pride ourselves in trying to find roadside oddities, peculiar museums. And um to this day, our favorite one is the National Mustard Museum that is outside of Madison, Wisconsin, here in the States. Ah. And I don't even particularly care for mustard. Still my favorite museum I've ever visited. and And I highly recommend it. So, yeah, fell in love with your Instagram channel sort of through that. I was like, there's my people. There there there we go. But what first sparked your love of museums? Is this something you've always carried with you or something you grew into? Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, so I think I've always enjoyed museums, you know, as, as a kid, we often went to museums and did the things and I go and see them and so on and so forth. But it was, in fact, it was literally just before the pandemic. I remember the, the, um, there was three cases in York at the time, which is where I was doing my PhD. And there was three cases in Paris where I went for a conference. um And it was the first time really that I'd ever travelled solo.
Speaker: I'd always been with family and so on beforehand. And effectively what I did in a morning, because I went to a conference, did that for a few days, had a few days after, and I'd just pick a direction and just go and see what was in that direction and find a whole bunch of museums along the way. And I went, this is great. I really enjoy this. Then the pandemic happened. So obviously... Not a lot happened for a couple of years there.
Speaker: um But as we were coming out of the pandemic again, i mean, again, this is literally cause I went to a conference in Boston and I mean, it it was like up to the wire as if we were, was going to be allowed in the country cause they hadn't lifted restrictions at this point. Anyway, that ended up happening.
Speaker: get to Boston, do exactly the same thing. i had a bit of time and I actually, you know, delayed it by a week and just did the same thing in New York. And then after that, every holiday would be, okay, I'm going to a place. Um, I'm just going to find loads of museums and go and see them and do that stuff. And I started,
Speaker: mapping out where all the different museums are so I could know, you know, clusters of museums, what's there, what's interesting and and so on and so so forth. So that's kind of where the love has come from is just picking up, okay, I want to see museums. The next natural step of this is to really understand what museums are there that I'm going to go and see.
Speaker: um And from there I've visited... so Yeah, so I counted it up, I've kept a list, and I have visited more than 500 museums in the last five years in five on five different continents.
Speaker: That's, I mean, sort of breaking it down, yeah, one every three days or something, every 40, that's incredible. It kind of works out something like that, yeah. Yeah, that's an incredible run.
Speaker: And did you decide to start documenting these, I'm not sure if you're on other social media platforms, but on Instagram from the beginning? Or did you have sort of a brainwave at some point said, I should really do this? Yeah, so so no is the short answer. right this was the of the time this This has always been a personal thing. I enjoy going to these museums. um A couple of years ago, I started getting involved with sort of museum design and creative design.
Speaker: and sort through the science communication stuff, I started interfacing with some some museums and that sort of thing. And then it was about two months ago, I was at a conference um and i was i was invited to this conference to talk to people about science communication, they're sort of PhD students and, you know, getting into the world of science communication. And my talk was basically, I stood up and said, it's awful.
Speaker: No one has any money. Everything is terrible. Um, and there was a few other people at this conference who were giving talks as well, where they were actually, everything's amazing. they're like, oh, it's because we do social media and they're getting, you know, money thrown at them from sponsorships and all that sort of stuff. Now that has never been my plan, right? You know, i I don't expect this to, in fact, I didn't expect it to get this far. Let's be, let's be quite frank. I was getting a few thousand views. I was very happy with that. And then this one's gone a bit crazy. Um,
Speaker: But basically the idea was, okay, I've always resisted doing social media and kept more traditional formats. um I've always said I could do whatever, put my money where my mouth is, and let's do you know weird museums. I feel I've got a lot to talk about. I've done a lot of weird museums in my time and understand why and what they are. So, hey, let's let's let's give it a go. And so far, it's gone it's gone a little bit crazy.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, to be honest, well look I was sort of deep diving into the map um that you've made Oh, just a few days ago and realized that there's ah an unusual museum, 20 minute drive from where I am that I had no idea about. And I think that's probably going to happen to a lot of people. There's going to be things on their doorstep, you know, that they just had no idea about. I can't remember how many thousand now. it that It's well over a thousand yeah we toilet seat covers.
Speaker: oh the oh you're at that one yeah yeah the toilet seat cover art that is sort in a bunch of shipping containers somewhere right yeah it's in a place called the truck yard which is i think sort of this restaurants and even a music stage and things not far from me and it's like well now i've got to go you know and i had no idea need to go and see that art Oh, amazing. Yeah, and it's it's funny. it's It's something that how museums are set up, which is something you just touched on briefly. Yeah. um I was i from Glasgow, and years ago, when I was one of the times I was back home, I went to the transport museum that's there, and it had been completely redesigned. had been shut for a couple of years. They'd spent who knows how many millions redoing it and brought in somebody whose name I've forgotten, and probably a good thing, who had redesigned the inside of it. And now ah so many of the cars and other vehicles were on these huge shelves going up the wall, so you could almost just see the bottom of them. You couldn't see in them. And I remember thinking, what a terrible design. Because there's all these kids running around and pointing up at these cars, and they just want to... You know, I know some of these things you can't touch, but they just want to be able to feel them and see in them. and
Speaker: And I thought, who put these things on massive shelves? And ever since then, if I visit a museum, I was lucky enough earlier this year to go to a few of the Smithsonian's. And and so now I'm paying attention to not just what's there, but how is it displayed? How is it organized? how absolutely How is the museum constructed to take you on a journey? And I think it's really interesting. And I didn't realize quite how fascinating it was.
Speaker: um let's think i was trying to think about the most surprising thing you may have ever seen there's got to be a list and trying to narrow this down there's got to be something you've you've you've seen in a museum i'd love to hear a little story there's probably many oh yeah absolutely absolutely there's there's loads of there's loads of things and i so this So this is this is kind of the one for the museum nerds, right? The the the best museum I have ever been to, and it is it is on the map.
Speaker: um And I'm going to kind of spoil it for people. If if you want to start off after I say what it is, then go, great. um It's the Museum of Jurassic Technology in London.
Speaker: Oh, um no. What's it called? Los Angeles. Thank you. Museum of Jurassic Technology in Los Angeles. Now, I had no idea what this was. um We were doing a road trip ah through parts of America um just before I ended up leaving. I lived there for a little bit. On the way out, friend came over and we just did a bit of a road trip around California, and las Vegas, that sort of stuff.
Speaker: And I don't know. I'd looked to the website, been like, yeah, that looks cool enough. Fine. like yeah It goes on the list. Let's let's go So we head to that and I didn't really know what to expect. And you went in and sat down and there was just a very strange video. And I turned to my friend and was like,
Speaker: is this another cult? If we come to another museum that's run by a cult, this is okay And then we're going through the exhibits and you have um the hall of Russian space dogs, which is nothing but portraits of the dogs from Russia that went to space. You've got an entire exhibit about Victorian... um ah like theatre props. You've got another one, which is the the Library of Napoleon, which is just nothing but books about Napoleon. Another one, which is two rooms about some random California physicist that no one has ever heard of and how he fell in love with some random opera singer that nobody has ever heard And there's just room after room of this bizarre eclectic collections. Now, to me, it is a museum about museums and it is is bit of a statement on
Speaker: what is it that we choose to present and how we present it? And to be honest, this is probably actually one of the things that really kick-started my love of museums as an art form, as ah as a science, if you like, was this idea of these things were all presented very seriously.
Speaker: um and know we might talk about sort of the curiosity cabinets and and so on where it's just a whole bunch of weird stuff in a room um but and that's sort of all it is was this was it could have been the same thing but it was presented with a very serious face um and i think that that made quite an impression on me uh super interesting um I've been out to Los Angeles just once and there's so much more I want to explore out there. Now that has been scribbled on my notes as a place to a place to check out because I think that would be fascinating. But you're right. It's it's the presentation.
Speaker: is it yeah how these things are presented um i mentioned to you earlier now i can't remember if it was on air or off the national mustard museum up in madison wisconsin to this day my favorite museum and i don't like mustard but the way it was presented and the storytelling and the passion people had um there was a couple of people who walked there and a couple of volunteers but you could feel the passion and i think there's a I could relate to the nerdiness that I feel about other things that they had for mustard. Like you could see the twinkle in their eye when they spoke about it. And even if I don't share that, I could feel it. And I love it. And I think that's, to me, that's the sign of a great museum is one that can draw you into that that passion.
Speaker: Yeah, so, I mean, um this is one of the things that i get I get a lot looking at these sort of weird museums, right? So let's take the Mustard Museum. We've actually got three different Mustard Museums. There's the National Mustard Museum in Middleton. You've also got Ray's Mustard mu Mill over in Eastport.
Speaker: And there's also a Mustard Museum. ah o That's German. I'm not even going to try and pronounce it. The Middleton one, I believe that's it just outside of Madison, Wisconsin, I believe. Yeah, and then there's another one, sorry, it's not in Germany, it's in the Netherlands, but I'm not even going to try and pronounce that name. But all the all these things, like the but the Mustard Museums, and let's take the Stavanger Canning Museum, you've got ah Washing Machine Museums, you've got granite museums, you've got salt museums, you've got mug museums, the chair museum, right? There's all of these different things. And really, usually, are, of course, they're about the thing, but actually the story they're telling is of the people that made that thing, the people that interacted with that thing. And these objects are your entryway. They're a focal point that you can build a story of a people of a location around
Speaker: and and And it's how they tell that story that that that that's really what interests me. I think that's almost a universal truth. Speaking to the academic in you, I was went to a talk a friend was giving a few months ago, and she's done some some clinical research into the Appalachian Trail.
Speaker: ah and interviewed hikers before they went on it. I think while they were on it and certainly when they finished about basically what were they looking forward to, what were their hopes and dreams, what did they think it would be like, and then of course on the other end.
Speaker: And the the biggest swing was from, it was away from the scenery and all the views, which were amazing. That's what people were looking forward to. What they actually enjoyed the most was the people. And hearing their stories. Why were they on the trail? Why were they walking 2000 plus miles?
Speaker: yeah That's what people were going to miss the most. Not just the scenery. And I think that that there's a correlation there with the museum life. the museum Yeah, definitely. it is It is about the people. um Something I think I would be amiss if I didn't ask you. Night in the Museum. Night in a Museum. The movie.
Speaker: If you might spend one night in museum by yourself, you've got the whole place to yourself, what museum do you think you would like to spend the night in so
Speaker: in? So... The very definition of a problematic fave is the British Museum. Right. um As I've said before, it's the best museum in world because we grabbed all the best stuff and put it in one place. So of course it's amazing. right um it's It's incredibly well-funded. The people that they have in there are enormously talented in what they do. They have world-leading experts curating those collections, um working on the stuff there.
Speaker: It is the ideal institution. There are issues with it. And um those issues are being addressed in one way or another. Let's not, you know, let's not say perfectly and I'm not going to go to bat for everything, but um it is ultimately a really, really fantastic museum. It's a great place to visit and they just have an incredible collection. Yeah. I love it. um So moving on from that, I was thinking about, and this is two questions, but it could end up just being one, about a dream museum museum that you have A, not beaten yet, and B, what are your plans for, say, the rest of this year or even next year? What's what's on the list that you are going to get to?
Speaker: Okay, so my dream museum, um and i have I have made steps towards this. I've worked with... um Florence Pugh, who was the director of the Vagina Museum in London, um i sort of she started a whole program about small museums and I had some chats with her to try and ask, you know, try and get something in the works and for various life reasons. Nothing ever came of it. um But my my idea that I do want to really want to do is the Museum of Five Objects.
Speaker: Um, which is one of my big problems with a lot of museums is they've got a lot of stuff right and they don't do anything with that stuff. And ultimately a lot of that stuff doesn't matter. So what I want to do is to create a museum that has just five things in it, but you really get to know those five things, right? It, it, it,
Speaker: What they are almost doesn't matter to me. um Obviously it would do, you know, in in building the museum and so on, but it's the, a story that is told through these five objects, presumably some sort of AV, you know, right. the There's details, details.
Speaker: um But again, it's ah a complete story based around the five things, rather than just being, look, here's a whole bunch of stuff. um And I'm not saying want every museum in the world to end up like this, but ah I think that would be a really interesting challenge to put together. And it's something I have made some steps towards, but, you know, it's it's not gone anywhere as of yet.
Speaker: I love that idea of doing it. It reminds me of one of my favourite authors is Bill Bryson. And he's written a book and or wrote a book called At Home, where he sort of just goes around to his home. I think it's in the Yorkshire Dales, actually. I don't know if he still lives there.
Speaker: But would look at these small objects like the keys or the keel or some some things around the house and draw these brilliant stories out of them about the history of what actually it takes to kind of put this home together.
Speaker: yeah it's Yeah, exactly. Hundreds of years, thousands of years of technology, thousands of people. have somehow all come together to make the place he calls home. and And I think that it's brilliant. it gets the story, but the object doesn't really matter in the end. It's the story yeah behind it.
Speaker: Yeah, no, ah that's, that's definitely something I'd like to do. And as for ah what's, what's coming next. So broadly by, by and large and speaking. and So I also work, I do lots of things.
Speaker: yeah I do all whatever, whatever pays and also a lot of stuff that doesn't pay as well. um So next I'm actually off out. I work as an astronomer on cruise ships.
Speaker: So I will be out this weekend. I'm off to Malta. Um, and we'll be going around the med and then I'm back for a bit and then I'm off doing sort of, um, Rome to Istanbul. Um, so lots of new museums to go. and I've never been to some of these places before. So lots of new museums and stuff to go and visit there. So definitely be doing stuff on that.
Speaker: Um, but beyond that, I don't really know, right? it's it's it's I've got to ask you about an astronomer on a cruise ship. Are you looking constellations, things like that, and then you have you'll have a small crowd around you explaining what's in the sky? Is that kind of it? Yeah. So, you know, some of these ones, so i've I've done work or done done or will do work with P&O, Cunard, Fred Olsen, those sorts of things to... um Yeah, basically, hello, I'm your friendly astronomer. We're going to do some night sessions. We're going to do some talks.
Speaker: um We're just going to you know do star stuff, really. And um obviously, weather dependent, though usually in the med in the middle of the summer, it's it's pretty good weather. Clear skies, yeah. Clear skies, no, fantastic. and And just having a look around and doing, yeah, that sort of stuff. I mean, so I did one earlier this year where I went from Southampton all the way down to Buenos Aires.
Speaker: um So, yeah, we got to see the full tilt of the planet, which was, you know, and every night we were going out, there would be brand new stars on the horizon. um So that was that was really fantastic to be able to do it that way.
Speaker: And ah also working with you know other other ones as well, sort of doing these sort of tours. um I'm hoping next year to go out to Egypt and do a ah Egyptian astronomy, going up the Nile sort of thing. So there's some weird and wonderful things if you can find them. Yeah, I love it. It just...
Speaker: Yeah, open you're opening up this whole new world to me. I didn't know existed. I've never thought about the fact. What a great thing that would be to be on a cruise ship. and to be Yeah, no, it's it's amazing fun.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. I had no idea. No idea. I love it. We both have a passion for education. Obviously, these are fields we've either worked or walk in. If a classroom could borrow an idea from a museum to make it more...
Speaker: It's interactive for kids. What do you think? Is it something you've maybe seen or just a general kind of overreaching lesson? Because that's often the issue we face in classrooms is engagement and getting students really involved in what we're trying to teach. Is there anything you've seen in the museum that has made you think, man, if we did that in a classroom, the kids would eat it up?
Speaker: it's It's hard to say because classrooms and museums are just totally different spaces. right And I would argue, so whenever I go into classrooms and I you know i give workshops and so on and so forth, I know that I am the benefit of the fact that I am someone new. but I'm coming in, I'm doing something exciting, the kids are going to be a lot better behaved for me, they're going to be far more interested in what it is, I have to say, than if their teacher was going to do the same thing. um And I think...
Speaker: one of the big things that museums have and that museums can offer is that they are a physical space. Um, you know, yeah there was a lot of stuff over COVID around museums online and collections. And I think that is fantastic. And don't get me wrong. I would encourage any museum to make its collection as widely available as possible and have online archives and so on.
Speaker: But I think it really struggles to capture, um museum-ness really that you know a museum i think is first and foremost a space um so how can we bring that sort of thing into a classroom well very tricky um
Speaker: what you could do i suppose is this idea of building a story around an object um and And this is a known technique, right? This is something that that that that teachers do do, and it's it's not something brand new. and But you could bring in a physical totem and have, okay, kids, we are, you know, maybe what is this? Then perhaps by the end, okay, now can you tell me what it is, right? This idea of a physical thing right um that people can do. Because I think this is something that both that that has to really matter.
Speaker: Um, so one of the things I've always said, you know, I've got loads of ideas about weird museums we could make. Um, and one of them would be the best museum in the world where absolutely everything is a replica.
Speaker: It's all fake, right but that means we've got everything. We've got Mona Lisa, we've got the Rosetta stone. We've got King Tut, right? Absolutely everything. The best museum in the world. Cause it's got all the stuff that you know.
Speaker: Now, how interesting actually is that as a museum? That's a question I can't really answer. i think it would do fine. I think people would be interested. But who cares about a fake Mona Lisa?
Speaker: Um, so therefore, if we're working backwards, I appreciate I'm going, you know, follow me here. yeah Working backwards. People really care about a thing being real and a thing being physical. And we can make arguments about people don't know what they look like or what they're looking at.
Speaker: That's a whole other tangent. But to be able to bring something real as a focal point into a classroom, I think could be quite powerful. So one of the projects that I've, i've I didn't work on it myself, but I was sat on the board that sort of um funding and and valuation and so on is the the moon meteorite project where they are sending a piece of the moon around the UK and you as a school can get a bit of the moon.
Speaker: ah and Obviously, there's all the activities that go along with it, right? you know There's some videos you can watch, and there's lesson plans, and there's all of that sort of stuff. But actually what people are really excited about is here's our bit of the moon. This is a real piece of the moon. this is a real you know And some meteorites as well. like This is some real meteorites that you can touch, that you can physically... oh Well, while touching, maybe less so, but... yeah Right?
Speaker: Here's a physical, real thing. Yeah. So I think there's stuff like that that could... ah for help focus, but I think the two things are very different, so it's not easy to transfer one. You know, I could say, well, every classroom should be like a museum, but we both know that's, that's not practical. We're not exactly awash with funding in it. No, no, honestly, some days keeping all the children alive is, is a, is a win in and of itself. absolutely I've been there many times myself.
Speaker: I've got two kind of two questions for you as we kind of um wrap this up. My first is I'm just going to dip my toe into some emotions here. Oh, dear. I like to do some hi you know hiking. I go on multi-day trips here and there. And sometimes you see a view and it stars up. europe This is incredible. And I was curious if what museum, if there indeed has been one, has stirred up an emotion in you that you weren't expecting or anticipating. Like it's almost been overwhelming.
Speaker: Oh, now, isn't that a question? I'm
Speaker: yeah i'm going have sound very bad ah emotions. Um, I can tell you a couple of stories though. um So one of the best experiences I had and that I came away from, been really, really delighted was the, ah sadly it no longer exists from what I can tell, the Estonian cur coin museum in Tallinn, which was literally a room with a, with a, like a archivist set of drawers. That was it. That was the whole museum was this guy in a room. Uh, but the stories he told of these coins and, and, and how, what they were and how they had come to be wove such a tale,
Speaker: Um, that, you know, you couldn't help but coming out of that, grinning ear ear to ear joy from that one. Very similar in, um, there's a Lego museum in Krakow, which name escapes me at the moment. Um, and the guy in there,
Speaker: ah Again, he was he was just weaving such tales about this collection. At one point, his wife called him up to you know someone else that wanted to talk to him about something, and he just couldn't stop talking right about this stuff. And to just sit and talk to, so about you know, here's someone ah talk about what they love. It's Swiat Wallach Technicale.
Speaker: Uh, that's right probably an absolute destruction of what it's actually called. Um, it's run by a guy called Peter. Um, and he, you know, it's when you get someone that really loves their museum, right. That's, that is usually what awes me rather than the museum itself. I mean, some of them have this wonderful grand architecture. I remember seeing the, uh, natural, so natural history museum in London's, um,
Speaker: ah minerals gallery for the first time. And I don't know why that really sticks with me and, you know, stuff like that or the natural history museum again in, in New York. There's a, you know, there are vistas, but again, it's the people and the things. I mean, again, the opposing story, opposing story for that was went to the Musee d'Orsay in Paris, um, you know, very famous collection and this beautiful, beautiful building. And we're walking along.
Speaker: was actually with my dad and I looked at someone and went, God, These ones are a bit rubbish, aren't they? Who did these ones? Lean in to look at the little plaque. Oh, Monet. so yeah So again, i i I would always say for museums, it is the stories that they tell yes more than the pictures that they show you. Though, of course, you know there are so many that are absolutely gorgeous and um neoclassical buildings. Again, not without their problems, but they are very pretty.
Speaker: Yeah, that's I love it i've just been ah You've just reminded me of a story. of My mum came to visit me here. It's been over a decade when when she was here.
Speaker: And we went to a place called the Kimball Art Museum, which is in the... I mean i live in the Dallas area, and it's quite well-renowned. There's some world-class pieces there. It's very well privately funded. um So but we went. It was the first time i had been, i think... And we sat down and we we were just sitting looking at the paintings.
Speaker: And my mum is quite... she She knows quite a bit about art. She does. She's quite an enthusiast. And she was explaining to me why the figures are not in the middle of the painting and they're off to the side and this artist would always do his paintings in thirds.
Speaker: yeah And then we had a discussion, i don't know how it started, about frames. And I think I asked her, was like, these the original frames or when they transport them from museum to museum, do the frames...
Speaker: Are they the same ones? Do different museums use different? are there certain types of frames for certain types of paintings? And we had a really good conversation. And now if I ever think of that museum, I ever see the couple of pieces, I think about that moment with my mother, you know, sitting there yeah having this lovely conversation. and Yeah. and Yes. Yeah. i ah Art galleries annoy me.
Speaker: Right. um I'm a bit, you know, you probably tell from my story before I'm a bit of a philistine. um But so I've, I've been life turns in weird ways. um I've been fortunate enough to, to have extended periods sitting and eating with quite a few Royal academicians.
Speaker: and So were fellows of the Royal Academy from London, who you know, we're talking like top, top art, art people. And I've got to talk to them a lot about art and really get an understanding. And they're generally speaking, contemporary artists.
Speaker: um And i I, you know, I'm one of the people that are contemporary art and you're like, well, what, what's going on? um And from what I have come to understand from them, and it's one of those things that I, you know, I have a book plan written out.
Speaker: It's never got anywhere, but could do about, you know modern art for people who hate modern art. um But yeah, The thing is, contemporary art is almost always a response to something.
Speaker: They are not standalone pieces. And actually, I think this is very true of older art as well. it it was always made and designed within a very specific context.
Speaker: But a lot of museums, they're not in that context anymore. right A lot of art galleries, they they simply are there. And if you're lucky, you'll get a title, a year and an artist. And it just means nothing, right? Yeah, completely agree. That's it I'm not one for art museums. But I think when some of the technique got explained to me, it brought some humanity to it.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. So these pieces and a lot of these contemporary art pieces, if you look at them, they're, they mean nothing. They're insane. They're ridiculous, right? Oh, a child could have done this. But the story there is why was it made in that particular way? Now, again, that story might not be, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go to bat for all of the stuff that exists. Yeah. But there is a story there and art galleries are way, way, way worse than museums at actually trying to tell you what is that story. Um, the one that stands out to me, oh I'm gonna, I'm gonna do myself in here trying to remember exactly where it is. um
Speaker: it's in the middle of the uk for you yeah go on buy us a little time when you're talking about this i'm just thinking about banksy and we could do right we could have a huge conversation the art itself is not necessarily anything spectacular but the meaning the story the location all right that that's what draws people in right yeah and and and lots of people love Banksy, right? My mum doesn't like contemporary art, but she loves Banksy because she can understand it. And he is, and i know he is derided by the greater art world as, you know, sort of like, Oh, it's a bit basic, isn't it? Because it is, because it is, people can understand it. yeah um
Speaker: You know, we could go in circles about this and and I do want to, ah to let you move on very quickly. It's the Derby Museum and Art Gallery in Derby, funnily enough. um They have that they have um all sorts of things, right? it is It's all sorts of local and history and all sorts of things like that. But within that, they have a particular gallery on one particular artist who...
Speaker: oh he I really should have looked this one whilst I was at it as well. No, no, you're fine. He was quite famous for doing... this Anthony Eaton? No.
Speaker: ah ah The Philosopher Lecturing to the Orrery. That's the one that I know. and that was done by ah So as a scientist, obviously I love science and and and and a lot of science history as well. That's what I've done most of my writing on. and But there's an artist called Joseph Wright, who did lots of these paintings in sort of the late 1700s about science. And he did a lot of stuff with light. So like a philosopher lecturing to the orrery is famous one. There's an orrery in the middle and the light is coming from it and it's lighting up all of their faces. And he did, you know, alchemists with glasses, all sort of stuff. Right.
Speaker: And this exhibit wasn't just, because he's from Derby, which is why there's a room about him in the Derby one. It wasn't just, here's his paintings. It was a full tour of, okay, here's where he started. And his big thing was playing with light. So here's how he was playing with light. Here's what he was interested with. You knew him and his story. So when you were looking at the paintings, you could actually see what was going on rather than just, here's this pretty painting from the seventeen hundreds that um That's what we need. To be able to connect what we are and what we know to the painting and the story that takes us there. I love it.
Speaker: Well, my final question for you is, and I'm trying to think how to phrase this. And again, I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit. Oh, dear. It's twofold. It's twofold, this question.
Speaker: I'd like to transport yourself. You could go to any museum in the world, any museum, and you could take somebody with you. This could be somebody dead, alive, famous, somebody you know personally, somebody you've met, somebody you've not met. Again, this is an unusual question, but I thought I had to tailor this for you. Who would you like to be able to walk around a museum with? You have that person all to yourself.
Speaker: And where is it you would like to go with them? Okay, so... There's lots of, you know, I won't go as far as trite, but, you know, answers about you know dead relatives and so on and so forth. But what I'm going to go for, I would like you to Google, please, ah the keeper of the ancient Mesopotamian collection at the British Museum, one Irving Finkel.
Speaker: But before you do that, I want you to picture in your mind what you think this man will look like. All right, I'm kind of hoping he's got like a quirky handlebar mustache and a pocket watch and something like that. Irving... Irving Finkel. I-R-V-I-N-G-F-I-N-K-E-L.
Speaker: Okay. There we go. All right. I'm not all that far off. That looks like a man I would like to have a beer with. I would like to sit down with him. I, was, um, I was working, was working an event once and he came to speak at that. Uh, and beforehand we were organizing, I was on the organizing team and we said to the, the, the chair, look, it's gonna be a while. He'd been there for something in the morning, take him to the fat badger around the corner.
Speaker: Um, and they'd had a bit few more than we'd expected. So he came to give a talk about his new book, um, which is frankly dreadful. Uh, it was a fiction book. Um, he should not be writing fiction. Uh, but he was, uh, he was a little bit sozzled right talking about barely even about the book, but about the story of him writing this book.
Speaker: Uh, and he, he is just everything you would expect. from ah one of these older academics, um you know, very knowledgeable ah about his subjects, ah very free and open with that knowledge and not really much pretension to him at all. ah You know, what you see is very much what you get. um So I think going going to you know, maybe something in in the the sort of the area that he knows about, you know,
Speaker: with him, I think that would be that would be an amazing time. I would like to drag i like hang on your cocktails and be there. I love it What a great answer. Now I'm going to have to look this guy up.
Speaker: If our listeners would like to get in touch with you, ask you a question, find out some more about museums, astronomy, all these things that you are interested How can they find you? Where can people get a hold Absolutely. So you can find me either on TikTok or Instagram under James Visits Museums, or you can email me, jamesvisitsmuseums at gmail.com. I'm happy to talk to you there.
Speaker: I do also have a website for more of my physics-y based stuff, and that is jamesleesphysics.com. fantastic well dr james lee's it's been a pleasure thank you so much for taking this time thank you for having me ah great conversation thank you
Speaker: thank you again to this week's guest and i hope today's episode was as enjoyable for you as it was for me and perhaps even inspired your next adventure if you
