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#530 — How to Train Smart & Stay Safe in Open Water
67 Plays2 days ago
Open Water Swim Safety with Alissa Magrum takes center stage in Episode #530 as we dive into the essential habits, risks, and preparation every triathlete needs before heading beyond the pool. We also share announcements about Velocity live training sessions, TriDot Pool School shout‑outs, and our new Colorado’s Ride training partnership. This episode is brought to you by Vespa Endurance, with support from our Ask A Coach sponsor. Whether you're new to open water or a seasoned athlete, this conversation is packed with insights designed to help you train smarter and stay safe.
Contact Alissa Magrum https://www.facebook.com/alissa.magrum
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 530
00:00:17
Rich
All right, and welcome to episode 530 of the Grit to Greatness Endurance podcast. We are your hosts, coaches Rich Sores and Lauren Brown, and we are on a mission to help endurance athletes train smarter, race stronger, and build the grit it takes to achieve greatness.
00:00:34
Rich
Before we dive in athletes, this is one of those conversations that can genuinely change how you train and race. It's packed with insights that aren't just helpful. They are life-saving.
Guest Introduction: Alyssa Magrum
00:00:45
Rich
This week, we are going to sit down with open water safety leader and endurance athlete, Alyssa Magrum.
00:00:49
Alissa Magrum
good
00:00:52
Rich
You might remember her name. She joined us for a little cameo a couple of weeks ago, and we are glad we got her back here. fresh off of her recent interview with Michael Phelps on the same topic. So we're going to get into that to talk about what every triathlete needs to know about hitting the water. And this is a must listen for anyone who trains or races outside the pool, because like it's one thing to be in the pool. It's a much different thing to be in open water. Speaking of the pool real quick, coach April sends her best from TriDot Pool School down in Colorado Springs this weekend. While we are recording, she is hosting a reception at the host hotel. So shout out to her, the whole TriDot crew down there and Greg Castro, one of my athletes wanting to have a stronger open water swim. He's down there at the pool school and we can't wait to see your improvements.
00:01:42
Rich
Let's get into this. Welcome, Welcome, Alyssa. We are going to get into a whole lot, but just say hello to our audience.
00:01:47
Alissa Magrum
Thank you.
00:01:50
Alissa Magrum
Hello, audience. It's nice to be back from the on the spot at the Almageddon Race, that was fun to get to jump into that with you guys. I'm excited to be here. This is a topic that is near dear to my heart as a triathlete and as a water safety professional. I do water safety 24 hours a day through 65 days a year, and that intersects with my own racing and competing in triathlon. So this is a, like as you said in your intro, it's a life-saving conversation, important one.
00:02:23
Lauren Brown
I'm so thankful, Alyssa, to have you here for this conversation. was saying this before we jumped on and started recording, but this conversation going powerful for, I believe, anyone listening, whether they're a triathlete, a parent, someone who's curious about open water swimming.
00:02:42
Lauren Brown
So I'm really thankful that you're here to have the conversation with
00:02:43
Alissa Magrum
Yeah, I'm already on mainframe of this. Awesome. Let's do it. Okay.
00:02:49
Lauren Brown
All right. Should I just share one quick announcement before we jump into Rich, right?
Velocity Program Announcement
00:02:53
Rich
Let's do it.
00:02:54
Lauren Brown
All right. So before we jump into all of the amazing things that we're cover today, One announcement is that Velocity is live. You guys have definitely heard us talking about Velocity, where every week you get to join coaches, April, Coach Rich, myself, the coaches that you have learned to love on the Grit to Greatness podcast.
00:03:18
Lauren Brown
So join us. April will be doing mountain bike skills.
00:03:23
Lauren Brown
I'll be covering little bit more about...
00:03:26
Lauren Brown
triathlon and riding aero. Coach Rich will be making sure that you understand the idea of it's not easy feeling green.
00:03:36
Lauren Brown
It's really going to a lot of skill development, community, and helping you become a stronger rider in training and on the road. So our ambassadors, you all get a 25% discount as well as our premium athletes.
00:03:53
Lauren Brown
You can go over to the show notes, or if you follow us on Instagram at G2G Endurance, you can grab free two-week trial to out, develop shifting, cadence, smoother pedal strokes, and power control.
00:04:08
Lauren Brown
We have live classes Saturdays at 8 a.m. Mountain Time, 90 minutes with Coach Rich. We've got Tuesdays 6 Mountain Time with Coach April and then Wednesdays 6 a.m.
00:04:21
Lauren Brown
Mountain Time. with myself, Coach Lauren. And again, you can get those live classes. You can also catch replays. Grab the link the show notes to subscribe.
00:04:33
Lauren Brown
And then something else really exciting is underway with Velocity Grit2Greatness.
Partnership with Colorado's Ride
00:04:40
Lauren Brown
We are partnering with Colorado's Ride launch an exclusive Velocity-powered training subscription designed specifically for riders preparing for the incredible 350 mile five day Colorado's ride tour.
00:04:56
Lauren Brown
So if you are a listener who is registered for Colorado's ride, you will soon be getting access to a training experience built to help you conquer one of the most beautiful and challenging routes in the country.
00:05:11
Lauren Brown
So stay tuned for that friends.
00:05:13
Alissa Magrum
does
00:05:15
Rich
Honestly, it is such a great ride. I am excited to be a partner with Bill on this and I really hope to do it again. It's new route. So beautiful riding.
00:05:29
Rich
Alyssa, if you haven't done Colorado's ride, you know, let's go.
00:05:33
Rich
the first day was Durango to, see, how did this go?
00:05:37
Rich
Oh, Durango to Silverton. And then you took the Silverton train back.
00:05:41
Alissa Magrum
Trey. Oh, that's fun.
00:05:43
Rich
If you wanted to take the train back. If wanted to socialize and tip a few, that's what some people did.
00:05:49
Alissa Magrum
Yeah.
00:05:51
Rich
Day two was Durango to Durango, a big loop. Day three was Durango to Springs.
00:06:02
Rich
Hot Springs, Pagosa Springs, thank you.
00:06:03
Alissa Magrum
Pagosa.
00:06:06
Alissa Magrum
There's a bunch of them in Colorado, by the way, Springs Glenwood.
00:06:06
Rich
To Pagosa Springs, that's true, I know.
00:06:09
Rich
was gonna give you like 85 miles bike,
00:06:15
Rich
And then day four is you do Wolf Creek Pass and down. So it's kind of a shorter day, but it's kind of a big climb. And then day five is from Pagosa Springs back to Durango.
00:06:27
Rich
Now the routes changed this year, but that's what it was last year.
00:06:30
Alissa Magrum
And this is all road on the road.
00:06:32
Rich
It's all road, yeah. So your fat bike and your, yeah, yeah, I know.
00:06:33
Alissa Magrum
look, off road, off road. Sure.
00:06:37
Lauren Brown
you
00:06:38
Rich
sure, we could find a trail for you anyway. Well, folks, listen, this is exciting.
00:06:45
Rich
Let's kick this off.
Alyssa on Drowning Prevention
00:06:45
Rich
Open water might be the most exhilarating and the most unpredictable part of triathlon. This is the episode where we're gonna sit down with Alyssa Magrum here, and she is a national recognized leader in drowning prevention and open water safety, who recently appeared with Michael Phelps to elevate awareness around swim safety.
00:07:02
Alissa Magrum
Good.
00:07:04
Rich
As both an expert and an endurance athlete, Alyssa brings dual perspective that every triathlete needs to hear. So whether you're brand new to open water or a seasoned competitor, this conversation is really gonna shape the way you prepare, train, and advocate for your own safety.
00:07:19
Rich
and the safety of others. Alyssa, it's great to have you with us and talk about this very important topic and one that I relate to because I had a panic attack out there at Chatfield.
00:07:33
Rich
And fortunately, I had somebody there with me. This is before... Swim safe buoys were cool, you know, and all of that stuff.
00:07:37
Alissa Magrum
Yeah. Oh, wow.
00:07:41
Rich
And it could have been really serious, really fast. And I know that it has happened out there. So anyway, before we get into the interview, I'm going to pass you over here to Lauren to get us kicked off.
Two Truths and a Lie Game
00:07:53
Lauren Brown
All right, so before we get into we do like to ask our new guests to do a little get to know you game called Two Truths and Lie. So Alyssa, our you game to play along
00:08:07
Alissa Magrum
Of course, yes.
00:08:09
Lauren Brown
Awesome. All right. So what you're going to is give us three statements about yourself. One of those has to be a lie, but two statements have to be true.
00:08:15
Alissa Magrum
Okay.
00:08:19
Lauren Brown
So be as creative as you want. Rich and I will listen to your three statements and then each take turns trying to guess which is lie. After we make our guesses, you will reveal which one really is the lie.
00:08:33
Alissa Magrum
Okay. Ready? Am I going? Am I doing this? Okay. All right. Number one, I've done three Ironmans. Number two, I went skydiving and my first parachute did not open.
00:08:49
Alissa Magrum
And number three, I've competed in four XTERRA world championships.
00:08:55
Lauren Brown
I'm going with number one or three, but I'm, I'm, all
00:08:59
Lauren Brown
right.
00:09:02
Lauren Brown
I really think number two is true because that's like, that's gotta be true. Cause it's like wild. I feel like it's like one of those ones where you're like, oh, this is one people make it right. And then I'm thinking like the world championships is like, that's,
00:09:16
Lauren Brown
don't feel between that, it's like, it could be one, it could be two Iron Man.
00:09:17
Rich
Mad ass.
00:09:19
Alissa Magrum
OK.
00:09:19
Lauren Brown
It could be three. I'm going to go with the lie is number one about the Iron Man.
00:09:24
Rich
As a technique, you think it's like a technicality, like, you know, like the numbers wrong, like it should have been
00:09:27
Alissa Magrum
Like I've done seven or done.
00:09:29
Lauren Brown
Yeah. Like I think it might be a technicality and I'm like, I mean the XTERRA world championships is like, of like, you know, I believe in you.
00:09:30
Rich
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
00:09:33
Rich
Huh.
00:09:39
Rich
I think you did do four. I think you've been... I'm going to say that Xterra is the truth. I'm going to say that three Iron Man is the truth. I'm going to say the skydiving in the first shoot didn't open. I think you're just trying to throw a lure. man.
00:09:52
Alissa Magrum
Okay. right, Lauren, what's your final answer?
00:09:55
Lauren Brown
Final answer is the Iron Man one. That's your lie. Yeah.
00:09:57
Alissa Magrum
It's my lie. You are correct. That is my lie. have not done an Ironman, nor will I ever do an Ironman. Once upon a time, I thought I wanted to, and then I realized, wow, that's a lot of hours and a lot of hurt on my body. So the other two are true. I have done four XTERRA World Championships, and I'm sad that it's no longer in Maui. And yes, I went skydiving with my brother, and we did the tandem with the skydiving person and halfway down, I was supposed to be able to steer the parachute and nothing was happening. And so was like, when, when do I get to steer? And he was like, have a problem, which you really don't want to hear that when you're hurtling towards the earth. So yeah, the first parachute just went down. So they use the reserve. So thankfully the reserve worked.
00:10:45
Alissa Magrum
True story.
00:10:46
Lauren Brown
Oh my God.
00:10:46
Rich
My heart is like, stop. I'm like, what?
00:10:48
Alissa Magrum
It was, yeah, yeah. But I did go another time. went when I was in Hawaii with my daughter and we went over the ocean and I was like, all right, well, you know, that one was all good.
00:10:58
Alissa Magrum
So,
00:10:59
Rich
Okay.
00:11:00
Lauren Brown
I literally was going to ask you, like, did you ever do it again after that?
00:11:00
Rich
Now.
00:11:03
Alissa Magrum
well, I wasn't going to, but my mom was supposed to go skydiving with my daughter.
00:11:04
Rich
Okay. Okay.
00:11:08
Alissa Magrum
And then she decided she want to do it the last second. And so I couldn't send Ella up there herself. So was like, all right, so yes.
00:11:16
Lauren Brown
Wow.
00:11:16
Rich
I cannot believe you did it again. Like, I mean, like I, I, I say that, I mean, people say that people who've done Ironman, like, why would you do another one? But this is like, well, I guess that's true.
00:11:25
Alissa Magrum
People say that to who have given birth. Why would you do that again?
00:11:27
Lauren Brown
True. literally was just saying that to somebody.
00:11:29
Rich
Yeah. There's a lot of that. Okay. Well,
00:11:31
Alissa Magrum
All right. Well, there you go.
00:11:33
Rich
so, all right. Your first, your first Xterra world championship, you're, you're there. It's tell us about the first experience there.
00:11:43
Alissa Magrum
Oh, the first one went and managed to get in with a, like a, lottery slot. So I didn't actually, I got a lottery slot for the first one, every other one I qualified for, but I got in and I went and just was like, it's a beautiful place. I'm just going to do this race. And that was actually, my parents were there and my daughter who I think she was eight or nine at the time were there. And that it was hard. I mean, it was like, you know, the surf was, was doable, which later on, it wasn't, time, which we'll talk about and mountain, but you know, it's, uh,
00:12:14
Alissa Magrum
So the swim was great. The bike was just straight up for nine miles and then you come screaming down and then the run was straight back up again. And then you come down and then you finish like the last couple hundred yards on the beach. And it was just amazing. mean, it was like getting to be out there with talking to people from all over the world and different languages. And I remember I'm a very positive person on the trail. I'm always cheering people on and cheering myself on and whatever. And getting to be able to do that in different languages with not even having to really use words was just really, really cool. So that my first one was, you know, getting to have my parents there and my daughter there the finish and some friends from Boston. We all went together was really, really great. So that was my first one. And was like, I got to come back and do this again. And I did three more times. So.
00:13:04
Rich
And qualified.
00:13:04
Lauren Brown
Yeah.
00:13:05
Alissa Magrum
Yes, qualified.
00:13:05
Rich
You're motivated.
00:13:06
Alissa Magrum
Yes, qualified.
00:13:06
Rich
You're that motivated to get back.
00:13:07
Alissa Magrum
Yes, yes.
00:13:07
Rich
Yeah.
00:13:08
Rich
Awesome.
00:13:08
Alissa Magrum
I qualified a couple of other times, but I just couldn't afford to do it because it was not a cheap endeavor, right? As we know, when we travel with bikes and all of that.
00:13:15
Rich
Coldly.
00:13:18
Alissa Magrum
So, yeah. Yeah.
00:13:20
Rich
Well, thank you for entertaining that. That was a lot of fun. never know what we're going to find when we go looking into those corners. So that was a lot of fun with you. But let's get serious here for a minute. I listened to the interview that you and Michael Phelps did. It was actually very sobering. I was expecting, I don't know why I was expecting something lighter, but it was hard to hear some of the stories you guys talked about.
00:13:41
Rich
And mean, so you spent career in drowning prevention, but you're also an endurance athlete. So how have your professional insights changed how you personally approach the water?
Water Safety Insights
00:13:54
Alissa Magrum
That's a great question. So got into water safety and drowning prevention as a career in 2010, really 2008, because my daughter's preschool classmate at the time, she was three, he was four.
00:14:06
Alissa Magrum
Colin Holst drown in a lifeguarded pool in Austin, Texas. And after that happened, I worked in nonprofit and worked for in the schools doing dropout prevention, but the preschool teachers were wreck after Colin drowned. And so I was called in to bring some social workers in and suddenly water safety became something for me as like a per in my parental toolbox that I didn't really know that I had to have. And then I had got into started volunteering, became the executive director of the organization. They found it after Colin Drown. And so I suddenly became just inundated with water safety. I mean, it was my life. And at the time I was competing in triathlons and I was doing the dance again. I was doing open water swims and things. I had hip surgery and decided I was going to swim four miles from the 360 bridge in Austin to the Tom Miller dam. And I had never swam more than a mile. I had done like maybe three quarters of a mile. So was like, Oh, I'm just going swim four miles. And I was going to do it with just like a kayaker next to me.
00:15:06
Alissa Magrum
And then I decided to raise money for Collins Hope. And I suddenly started learning about water safety and was like, oh my gosh, I can't do it. I can't just get in the water and swim with, I need support. need safety. I need all this stuff. And that turned into we did that event for it turned into an event because 18 people wanted to do it with me. My physical therapist, Dr. Ray had hip surgery. Anyway, I learned a lot sort of on the fly in that particular putting on it. I suddenly became a race director really putting on that event and thinking through, Oh my gosh, like every swimmer in our thing, every swimmer had a kayaker with them and they had to use an orange buoy. required swimmers to do that. And, um, And,
00:15:49
Alissa Magrum
The kayakers that were the water guardians had to have a properly fitted U.S. Coast Guard approved life jacket as safety. We had open water certified lifeguards that were guarding this event, not pool lifeguards, which is what happens in a lot of races and things like that. So I suddenly started, I was learning on the fly for a couple of years. And then I started showing up at triathlons to compete and was appalled at, like, I've gotten out of the water in two different triathlons to say, hey, we have to stop this. This is not safe. You cannot send people out based on the lack of guards, the lack of safety and, and things like that. And so I suddenly, it became like my water safety world that I was working really working on like childhood drowning prevention suddenly was like, my gosh, even, even those of us who are athletes, you know, we are now in this cloudy, dark body of water.
00:16:42
Alissa Magrum
Sometimes there's waves, all the things that are different from, a pool and it suddenly became my just worlds collided and I became the water safety lady at all the triathlons. So when I would go to, would swap, I would trade my race director and that put on all the Xterras in Texas. I would trade him race registration for doing a water safety speech at the, before the, you before the swim kicked off and, yeah, so.
00:17:08
Alissa Magrum
it suddenly just got all mashed up and started racing as a water safety ambassador. So I made myself like a kit that had that. And had, people would ask me questions all the time, maybe on the run and they'd be reading the back of my shirt, which was, you know, had all kinds of water safety related stuff and started having some really awesome conversations with people who are kind of like I was, and they're like, I didn't even think about this as something I need to think about like at all. So, was a, it got all mashed up and then had a couple of experiences at races, which I'm happy to share this interview if you want, where I really said, we have to do better. Like
Using Swim Buoys: Addressing Stigma
00:17:44
Alissa Magrum
we have to do better as athletes and our personal responsibility, and we have to do better as race directors and safety professionals, because there's a lot of things that, this is preventable, first of all. mean, drownings are preventable, right? So I think we have a long way to go though,
00:18:05
Lauren Brown
So when I first started swimming at lake near me, I, when I first was going, felt like uncomfortable using a buoy because I felt like some of the other swimmers who weren't using them were judging me.
00:18:19
Lauren Brown
And it's like, and now I don't care.
00:18:19
Alissa Magrum
You
00:18:21
Lauren Brown
I'm like, yes, I know I could swim two miles without a buoy, but like, God forbid something happened.
00:18:29
Alissa Magrum
have a leg cramp. You go water. You get whatever.
00:18:32
Lauren Brown
Right.
00:18:32
Alissa Magrum
Anything.
00:18:33
Lauren Brown
You just, you never know.
00:18:33
Alissa Magrum
Yeah.
00:18:35
Lauren Brown
And it's like, I, I felt like some people, some swimmers are like, oh, you don't need to wear a buoy.
00:18:35
Alissa Magrum
Yeah. don't
00:18:41
Lauren Brown
You're not going cause I've heard people say before, like, you're not going to have a buoy in a race. Why are you wearing buoy now?
00:18:44
Alissa Magrum
Right.
00:18:45
Lauren Brown
And I'm like, I don't know. In a race, it's a little bit different scenario. I'm in a lake with like, like you said, like maybe three, like high school kids that might just be pool certified lifeguards. And they're all sitting chatting with each other in the middle of the lake.
00:18:58
Alissa Magrum
Right. Right. Well, in a late to another thing that like just the, the, this particular, which is like, you know, not legal in a race, but in our swims, when I put on the open water swims, we required them. And part of it was because you're visible.
00:19:15
Lauren Brown
Right.
00:19:17
Alissa Magrum
Visibility is a big thing. High-vis swimwear is a thing with kids. We talk about now, it's a thing where it's like when you're choosing your child's swimwear, choose one that you can, high visibility, yellows, greens, oranges that you can see in the water, more visible if they go under.
00:19:32
Alissa Magrum
And it's like, wow, we should be applying that to like all water. I'm waiting for the neon wetsuit to come out that is the high-vis wetsuit.
00:19:44
Lauren Brown
Not to keep getting sidetracked, but not my first triathlon I ever did 2004, my older sister and I were just fundraising for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.
00:19:45
Rich
The strobe.
00:19:55
Alissa Magrum
Yep, team and training.
00:19:56
Lauren Brown
so one of the local, yep, exactly.
00:19:56
Alissa Magrum
Yep.
00:19:58
Alissa Magrum
Yep. Yep.
00:19:58
Lauren Brown
One of the local swim shops donated wetsuits to us, but they were like surf wetsuits.
00:20:04
Lauren Brown
And mine had all this neon orange. And I remember thinking, Everyone might just think I'm a buoy though. I don't know if I'm just like floating and not moving. They're be like, is that just a buoy in the middle of the ocean?
00:20:15
Alissa Magrum
But they'll see you. Right.
00:20:18
Lauren Brown
I'm not an all black. And yeah, so crazy. But you've said, this is a little bit in line with this comment that you've said that no one is drown proof, even swimmers.
00:20:25
Alissa Magrum
Yeah.
00:20:29
Lauren Brown
So can you explain what that really means for athletes who think they're strong or experienced enough to be safe in any conditions?
00:20:37
Alissa Magrum
Yes. So first of all, you can just type, pull up your favorite search engine and put Fran Crippen in. which Fran was a, you know, elite athlete who drowned during the final few hundred yards of a long swim. And Michael and I talked about that in the podcast because he is, he and Fran were friends. And the no one is drown proof is just that no one, I don't care who you are. And Michael and I were talking about that. It's like, it doesn't matter. Like you're, I say this in my drowning prevention work, it's like no one's drown proof. It doesn't matter your age, your race, your gender, your socioeconomic. level or your swimming ability because water is inherently dangerous, right? So you can get in to water that you think is fine and safe and anything can happen. You know, you can get struck by something, you can get a leg cramp, you can get gulp water and you can go if it's cold water, your body does different things. If it's hot water, you can get, you know, dehydrated. And so I really truly believe exactly that. No one, I do not care what you're what your swimming ability is. I think I'm a really strong swimmer and I almost drowned in one of those XTERRA world championships. So it's, that I think people need to let go of their egos and tone it down and say, Hey, this is like, this is absolutely something that we all need to think about and be responsible, honestly.
00:22:03
Alissa Magrum
so yeah, I mean, it's just that no one has drowned proof. Done.
00:22:07
Lauren Brown
Period.
00:22:08
Rich
You still, you know, I remember the days when, know, we didn't have those swim safe buoys, right? I also remember the days when we didn't have helmets when we skied, but now it's like, it's a fad, right? Who's got the coolest helmet, right? That's what we need to do. We need to make it, who's got the coolest swim safe buoy.
00:22:26
Alissa Magrum
We're trying to do the same thing in water safety with life jackets. So when we figured this out, and that's actually one of the things that I'm looking at is like, why is it cool or acceptable or a social norm to wear helmet when you're, I snowboard.
00:22:29
Rich
There you go.
00:22:39
Alissa Magrum
And when you snowboard or you ski, like, why can't we do the same thing? Why are we not doing the same thing in other places and we still haven't cracked the nut on why, why that is, or how that happened.
00:22:44
Rich
Right.
00:22:50
Alissa Magrum
And, but anyway, it's, yeah. I mean, the whole, these guys, I mean, literally like I, this is like my best friend when I swim in open water, I was training for a nine mile swim and I was in Hawaii and I swam for four hours back and forth on this beach with this buoy in the surf and on a lifeguard beach.
00:23:10
Alissa Magrum
But still was like, people think that, you know, I mean, we got to take the shame out of that. Lauren, I hate when you, I hate that that's the thing.
00:23:18
Alissa Magrum
I think it's definitely getting better. Like, and it's funny because when we first started doing these swims and they were fundraiser for Collins Hope, the organization that I was running.
00:23:19
Rich
Yeah.
00:23:21
Lauren Brown
I have a pink one.
00:23:28
Alissa Magrum
And when we started doing them, we would be, we would know that it was a Collins Hope store because we'd see the orange buoys. And now it's just, it's 15 years later,
00:23:39
Alissa Magrum
And it's more commonplace, which I love that. It makes me so happy to see pink one, an orange one, a yellow one. I don't care. Like, just to see a buoy.
00:23:47
Alissa Magrum
Yay!
00:24:01
Alissa Magrum
Cool.
00:24:09
Lauren Brown
Thank you.
00:24:09
Alissa Magrum
Yeah.
00:24:10
Rich
But, well, you know, condition...
00:24:11
Alissa Magrum
Well, I think it's the take the shame out of it, you know?
00:24:14
Rich
Absolutely take the shame out and and it's yeah it's not a badge of honor to swim without one.
00:24:15
Alissa Magrum
Yeah.
00:24:30
Alissa Magrum
is race legal in USAT, at least it used to be. And you wear it on your leg. And if you have an incident, you pull the thing and the CO2 inflates it.
00:24:39
Rich
Yeah.
00:24:40
Alissa Magrum
My issue with that, same thing with life jackets that are inflatable life jackets is if you are drowning, you are counting on the fact that you can pull that thing and that you can do that.
00:24:49
Lauren Brown
Mm-hmm.
00:24:49
Alissa Magrum
And that's my, I don't love those. I think they're a layer of protection and I think it's probably better than, better that than nothing. However, you're relying on the fact that you'd be able to pull that thing, get to it on your leg, pull it and or deploy it.
00:25:05
Alissa Magrum
So, but those are race legal. I mean, I have a whole thing of like, I think these should be race legal and you can start if you want to, they start further back or you start do wave with buoys or something like that.
00:25:14
Rich
Totally.
00:25:16
Alissa Magrum
You know, I mean, this has been platform of mine for years.
00:25:21
Rich
No, I think it's sound advice. I mean, honestly, think about the liability, you know, just, and honestly, people just, we don't always estimate our abilities as, especially like in a race condition.
00:25:25
Alissa Magrum
Yeah.
00:25:35
Alissa Magrum
Yep.
00:25:35
Lauren Brown
Thank you.
00:25:35
Rich
And conditions change, right? I mean, I've been out there at Chatfield and I've seen it go from sunny and beautiful to cloudy and overcast.
00:25:41
Alissa Magrum
Oh, and an ocean probably wakes, you know, waves and white caps and things like that.
00:25:43
Rich
And now, wait a minute.
00:25:46
Rich
Yeah, undertows, things change
00:25:48
Alissa Magrum
Yeah.
Safety Tips for Open Water Swimming
00:25:48
Rich
fast.
00:25:50
Rich
What's your advice for how be prepared or just not underestimate how fast conditions can change?
00:25:58
Alissa Magrum
Well, first of all, I mean, I think it's interesting. I was just working for work today on a water safety for teenagers poster. And so it's like a lot of the things, you know, that age group tends to drown in open in natural water more than in pools and things like that.
00:26:11
Lauren Brown
Thank you.
00:26:11
Alissa Magrum
And some of the things I was writing for that poster are absolutely applicable here. First of all, it's like never swim alone. That's the biggest thing. Like I, I just had to, okay, short anecdote here.
00:26:22
Alissa Magrum
So I was just my organization, the National Drowning Prevention Alliance, we just put on the International Aquatics and Water Safety Conference last week. And we were at the Broadmoor Hotel in Colorado Springs. And it was a whole bunch of aquatics people, swim instructors, water people, right? And there's a two-lane pool, outdoor pool. And it opened at 5.30 in the morning. And so I go to get there. I'm at 5.27. I'm waiting for them to open the thing. And I see someone already swimming in the pool.
00:26:51
Alissa Magrum
And am like livid. like this is a water safety conference and there's a person who's probably from our conference in the pool swimming and it's like not open, which means they jumped the fence or they somehow got in like not illegally. So anyway, the person comes, unlocks the thing, go in, we start swimming and I would, I won't get in there if there's not another person swimming. So I have my buddy and we're swimming. And later the conference, I run into this woman and I'm like, Hey, were you swimming this morning in the pool? And she's like, Oh yeah, I thought it opened at five, but it didn't. So I just like hopped, you know, hopped over and I was like, okay, first of all, we're at a water safety conference. And second of all, don't be an idiot. Like
00:27:32
Alissa Magrum
you know, and I ripped her one the thing. And was just like, never swim alone. And she's like, but I'm a good swimmer. I'm like, famous last words, like, just don't do it.
00:27:43
Alissa Magrum
Like that is one of, one of the biggest things.
00:27:44
Lauren Brown
Thank you.
00:27:46
Alissa Magrum
So back to your questions, like don't swim alone. I don't care if it's a pool or like, I won't swim at Copper Mountain, which is like the pool that's the closest to me in Leadville.
00:27:56
Alissa Magrum
And it, because it's not guarded and I can't, I can't, I don't know that there's not going to, you know, don't want to end up there by myself. And so never swim alone. And also like the, you were talking about the weather conditions, like check the weather and the water conditions first. Like how cold is it? First of all, is there a storm coming in? You know, when I lived in Austin, to swim in Lake Travis and that would, if there was a storm coming in, it comes in fast and it comes in and it becomes an ocean and are suddenly in very different conditions, right? Swim close to the shore. That's always, you know, that is a safer thing. always say, do not ever swim without, don't swim alone and don't swim without a buoy because you have that to hold onto if you need it. Best case, don't know if you have a paddler. always love to have, if it's like swimming, always love to have a paddler because they are also
00:28:52
Alissa Magrum
helping you be more visible and they're watching. I mean, I've told my paddler before, like hit me with your paddle if there is something coming or you know, like seriously, I'd rather hit with a paddle than be hit with a boat, you know, and pay attention. Like I listen when I'm in the open water and I'm swimming, am listening. Like I don't swim with music or don't swim with anything because I feel like I have to be incredibly aware more than if you're in a pool and you're swimming back and forth, like you can get into a very like methodical, you know, just back and forth, back and forth, but you can't do that when you're in open water. Like you have to be aware of what's happening around you. And mean, those are some of the big ones. I, you know, I talk to people when I'm doing like briefings before open water swim. And it's like, you're wearing a wetsuit, like,
00:29:43
Alissa Magrum
Have you swam in that wetsuit before? Because some people cannot, they panic or they can't breathe or they freak out in a wetsuit.
00:29:50
Lauren Brown
Thank you.
00:29:50
Alissa Magrum
Like practice in your wetsuit in the pool before you get in the open water. Like don't try out that when you're in the open water. Those Those are some big ones.
00:30:01
Alissa Magrum
I mean, obviously don't like to mix alcohol and swimming. That's just, It's probably not as appropriate for this crowd, but it's something that we see all the time on, you know, talking about open water, being in there, just swimming recreationally and things like that.
00:30:17
Alissa Magrum
And your body does different things, right? Hydration. That's another one. It's like, you know, you get a leg cramp land and it's one scenario. You get a leg cramp when you're in the middle of the lake or you're swimming. It's a very different deal, right?
00:30:33
Lauren Brown
I remember when I was one of my earlier triathlons I did. So the flip side of what you had said was if you haven't worn a wetsuit. So I had only done open water swimming with a wetsuit on and I was at the swim star and was looking around and lot of people have wetsuits on and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm probably crazy that wearing a wetsuit.
00:30:50
Alissa Magrum
No.
00:30:54
Lauren Brown
never swam without a wetsuit on in the open water. like, let me just take it off. And then I got back to the swim start and it was like, everyone put their wetsuits back on and I had a panic attack in the water. was back floating and I, it was like,
00:31:08
Lauren Brown
I felt as though suddenly couldn't remember how to swim and my legs were kicking so fast. And I was, and I mean, it was a sprint. So it was literally like crazy that I was panicking so much, but I was so close to being like, somebody get me out of the water.
00:31:22
Alissa Magrum
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
00:31:25
Lauren Brown
And then I just calmed myself down and swam, but it was wild how panicked I got because I did something new open water that I had never done before.
00:31:28
Alissa Magrum
so that goes into like
00:31:36
Alissa Magrum
the whole like practice what you're doing. Like even if you don't have access to open water, but you're gonna do an open water swim, get in the pool and have a friend like make waves in your lane and like kick you.
00:31:47
Alissa Magrum
And like, I mean, cause you both know, like you get kicked if you're not prepared for that.
00:31:48
Lauren Brown
Yeah.
00:31:52
Alissa Magrum
the start either like that's a whole different thing I mean I and if you only breathe to the right like what I would say in my briefings it's like you're only a right breather then you need to get all the way to the left so you can see everyone so you can see the field and if you're not comfortable you're going panic get towards the back like get where you have space and you know you panic like you're talking about Lauren if you panic like do the breaststroke do a get your head up, calm, get your breathing down, like get yourself collected, float on your back if you need to or whatever, but, you know, figure out the things that are, know, I used to, when my friend, uh, my friend, Pat Henneberry, who taught me how to swim for triathlon and open water, pretty much, she would like grab my leg. We'd be swimming and she would like grab my leg or she would like kick me. And I mean, but it prepared me because then when I got the first, first time I was like, I knew what to expect because I can't imagine getting in and not having a clue and standing there just like absolutely panicking. Thankfully, my first one, which was the dance game, which was also a very supportive, you know, they had swim angels in the water that would throw you a noodle if you needed it. that kind of thing. That was my first triathlon experience back in 2000.
00:33:04
Alissa Magrum
But, you know, it's, it's very different than swimming in a pool.
00:33:08
Alissa Magrum
Very different, bottom line.
00:33:08
Lauren Brown
Yeah.
00:33:10
Lauren Brown
So if we think about the conversation that you had with Michael Phelps, are there any like key takeaways from that interview that you wish every triathlon triathlete could use in their next race?
00:33:26
Alissa Magrum
Yeah, I think the first one is like that goes back to that. Like no one is drown proof one. Like you you have to think about
Respecting Limits in Open Water
00:33:33
Alissa Magrum
this. Don't let your ego, know, cause you to think, oh, that's somebody else. And he and I were talking about that because he was talking about how, you know, swimming in a pool versus swimming in the open water is very different. And we were talking about he was talking about taking his kids to Hawaii versus another place versus another place and how different the water can be. And even in open water, you could be in very different, like where I swam Maui is very different from, you know, Xterra that I did in, know, Texas or even here in Colorado, you know, it's very, very different. And I think that is, you know, when we were, was, he brought up, he actually brought up Fran Crippen in that conversation because that was a friend of his and who drowned. And so I think that's probably the, the, biggest thing is like open water is unpredictable and one, I don't care who you are, Michael Phelps or otherwise, you know, this is, this is something you have to, you have to think about.
00:34:35
Rich
Speaking thinking about, you know, this is something that, you know, athletes themselves have to take responsibility and kind of, you know, for their own, you know, advocating for their own safety. And what does it take, you know, what does it look like for an athlete to know and respect their abilities a sport where ego, like we were just talking about, can take over?
00:34:54
Alissa Magrum
Yeah.
00:34:57
Alissa Magrum
Well, the first thing I will say about the taking account or your own accountability is I challenge people and ask, encourage people to ask questions when they're signing up for a race and to ask race directors, you know, what is your safety plan?
00:35:13
Alissa Magrum
What are you, what, what certifications do your, your safety people have? Are they open water certified lifeguards? because what is your, you know, there should be a plan that lines all of that out. When I have put on an open water swim in Austin, Texas, I had to submit a 21 page safety plan to the city of Austin that told,
00:35:34
Alissa Magrum
what was our emergency action plan? Who is our medical director? How many lifeguards do we have? What are their certifications? And so I tell athletes, like, ask race directors, what is your safety plan? Like, how many are you going to have guards out there? Or are they going to be teenagers in kayaks that aren't wearing life jackets that don't know how to rescue someone? Or are they going to be pool lifeguards and who don't? It's very different pool lifeguarding versus guarding in a waterfront situation. I think the personal accountability, like knowing your own ability and not overestimating it and being really real, like, do I panic in open water? Do I panic if it's cold? Do all the people around me, how is that going to make me feel?
00:36:16
Alissa Magrum
Do I feel confident that if I get kicked or I gulp in water that I know how to get myself under control. I mean, I think that's something that is just asking people to ask themselves those questions is really important.
00:36:30
Alissa Magrum
cause we can go blindly into, into it. mean, you really can, you can, and, and then I would say, make good decisions. And, you know, I did not make a good decision in that situation in 2018 in Maui. And, that caused me to almost drown.
00:36:49
Alissa Magrum
And, And that was, that was a perfect example. And own this and I have owned it for years of where I didn't take, I didn't do the right thing as an athlete. Like I should never have gotten into that water. The ocean lifeguards are great there, but the race director should not have put us in that situation. And I shouldn't have raced. I should have not gotten in.
00:37:11
Lauren Brown
Can you share a little bit more about that?
00:37:13
Alissa Magrum
Yeah. So was 2018. Yeah. And this is the shirt that I qualify for that in. And like a W-shaped course. And so you were getting the water on like this side and you had to go through the surf to get in you, which the surf was about on that side, four feet high. And it looked fine. mean, that was fine. We had done a swim clinic the day before of like how to get through the surf and all of that stuff. So I felt comfortable that. And so you get through and you swim out to a buoy, you swim back in, then you run on the beach for about 50 yards and then you get back in.
00:37:46
Alissa Magrum
when we went to get back in and the way that this beach was, don't know if it was a current that came in or just things shifted, but the surf on the second part of the W, that second part was huge.
00:37:58
Alissa Magrum
And it wasn't like rolling surf. It was like crashers. And I remember getting it, getting ready get in and in my mind thinking like, wow, like I will use some expletives that I will not use in the podcast.
00:38:10
Alissa Magrum
But it was like, But I had so much adrenaline and I'm a strong swimmer and I love the ocean. And so I just went tearing in there with everybody else. And I got pummeled by not one, not two, but three waves.
00:38:23
Alissa Magrum
And after the third one, I was at the bottom. And I remember thinking, oh, my God, the water safety lady is going to drown. Like, this is it. Because I had gotten hit by one and came up and then there was another one.
00:38:34
Alissa Magrum
So I tried to get down, but I couldn't get down deep enough. So I got hit. So I came back the second time and then saw another wave coming. So I tried to get down, just kept getting tumbled. And then I finally, the third one, did what I should have done the first time and I just relaxed.
00:38:48
Alissa Magrum
And I figured out how to, I figured, found my way, because you couldn't, I couldn't tell which way was up. I found my way, which way the bubbles were going, which is what I know to do. And came up and thankfully there was a break in the set and I just, and I just had so much adrenaline and started swimming.
00:38:57
Lauren Brown
Yeah.
00:39:03
Alissa Magrum
But, after that, and I did the race, did the race, got through it. It was a mess. I mean, it was just a horrible conditions for that race. And about two weeks later, was in a movie theater watching movie and there was a scene where there was like a dad and a son who are surfing.
00:39:17
Alissa Magrum
and the waves crashing noise, I had a full on anxiety attack in the movie theater. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is from that experience. And I was terrified to get back in. And I qualified the next year and I was like, I'm going back. Like I have to go back and make peace with this and I have to go back. And I did 2019, I went back and did it again. But like, I should never have gotten in. And I know that and I made a bad decision. They should not have sent us in.
00:39:43
Alissa Magrum
They could have easily sent us to do two, you know, two laps on the other side. But, I mean, people had facial fractures and broken arms. I mean, it was crazy.
00:39:52
Lauren Brown
Jesus.
00:39:52
Alissa Magrum
I showed you guys that picture. I mean, that was, they were 15 foot high waves. Cause I had a friend who's a surf lifeguard, sent him that picture and he's like, yeah, those are like 15 foot waves. You should never have been in there.
00:40:04
Alissa Magrum
But I, but back to the personal accountability, like I should not have gotten in. I know better. But I let my ego get and the adrenaline get to me and I should have, I should have failed, you know, but was like, but I came all the way here. came all the way to Hawaii. And, but I really did almost lose my life in that situation and very scary. But I shouldn't gotten in bottom line.
00:40:27
Rich
Yeah, but you were spared to come here and share that message because right, somebody else has got to hear that, you know?
00:40:33
Alissa Magrum
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I will share it from the, I will take accountability for myself. I made a bad decision and I know better. But it's, it's hard, you know, trained for things you travel. I traveled to Hawaii. I spent a lot money, you know, the adrenaline you're in it. You're like, I'm a good swimmer. I'm a, I'm a solid athlete. This is the world championships. I can't stop but you know, I should have, I should have, and I'm very, very, very lucky.
00:40:59
Alissa Magrum
for that one. So I'm more than willing to share that story if it can help somebody else to make a better decision.
00:41:07
Lauren Brown
Yeah.
00:41:07
Rich
Yeah.
00:41:07
Lauren Brown
It's hard to listen to your gut when your adrenaline and your ego start to get involved.
00:41:12
Alissa Magrum
Totally, totally. And that's the, and if I gave a suggestion, I would say, listen to your gut, like, you know, like, like let the gut go, go bigger than the ego.
00:41:14
Lauren Brown
Yeah.
00:41:19
Lauren Brown
I
00:41:24
Lauren Brown
mean, you, you must mention like the race director.
00:41:27
Lauren Brown
So if we're thinking about the role that they play in safety when it comes to races,
Need for Certified Lifeguards and Safety Plans
00:41:36
Lauren Brown
open water events, what would you say are some non-negotiables that you believe every race should be required to provide for open water events?
00:41:36
Alissa Magrum
Yes.
00:41:45
Alissa Magrum
Yeah. So for one, water certified lifeguards, like it is very difficult when you are guarding pool, a calm, clear pool that has exits and most of the time you can see if someone goes down, not all the time, but, you know, I'm a waterfront lifeguard, got my open water certification because I wanted to be able to, wasn't actually going to work as a lifeguard, but I wanted to be able to, I'm racing, to be as prepared as I could. And to just be knowledgeable. And so I think that triath, I think open water and triathlon, if it's not in a pool, people should have the proper certifications and the knowledge because coming up with a safety plan or a plan for how you're going to guard that race is very different than, and that's what I used to have to do is I would, I would volunteer my time to go down and talk to the guards at the races that I was going to do because. And the first question I would say is, do y'all have a plan for like what happens if someone goes down? Like, how are you going respond? Like you need to know exactly what you're going to do. And they didn't.
00:42:50
Alissa Magrum
And it was appalling to me. So I think that that's one thing. mean, there, I also think that race directors should have a mandatory safety briefing that athletes, when they register for the race, they have to watch a five minute video.
00:43:04
Alissa Magrum
I'd be happy to record it for anybody, any race director who wants to have one. Just that talks about some of the stuff that I used to talk about when we were standing at the water's edge that was just kind of like, is this your first time in a wetsuit? Like, no, you know, and how to signal for help and what to do if you panic and some of those things. So I would love for every athlete to have, for race directors to have that embedded in the registration process. Like you watch this video, just like you sign a waiver.
00:43:31
Alissa Magrum
have to watch this video and it could be a three minute video. It doesn't to be long. the, and I think there should be obviously appropriate medical and people on, on site right there. But I mean, I think the biggest, the biggest thing is just the, the open water certified lifeguards. And I know it's hard and I know it can be expensive. And that's usually what the barrier that race directors say is, well, not making any money on this race anyway. Well, guess what? Like if you lose a life because you're you know, not only just did a whole session at my conference last week on the ripple effect of drowning. It's like, you don't just have the victim, but you have the victim, the family, the bystanders, the responders, the community, like all of those people, you know, if you have an incident. And so I would challenge race directors like embedded into your, embedded into your race fee. It's like five extra dollars and we're going to have appropriately certified, you know, lifeguards.
00:43:31
Lauren Brown
Mm-hmm.
00:44:26
Alissa Magrum
be transparent about it.
00:44:27
Lauren Brown
Yeah.
00:44:27
Alissa Magrum
I would pay it. think we probably would all pay it.
00:44:29
Lauren Brown
would pay it. Yeah.
00:44:30
Alissa Magrum
Right. You know, you know, and, and I think, know, I have one more story of like, uh, uh, two, two, two little anecdotes of things that actually happened in races.
00:44:41
Alissa Magrum
And these are the two that I got out of the water. I was getting ready to start the race and got out of the water to stop the race because it was not safe. The first one was, years and years and years ago.
00:44:51
Alissa Magrum
the, there were, kayakers and they were high school kids that were volunteers that were, that was the safety for the whole race. And they didn't have life jackets on, first of all. So if they had to try to help someone, they also didn't have a throwable thing. So they couldn't, what were they going to do to help someone? And then they had a jet ski in the water with no sled or a second person on it. So basically if a jet ski went to go respond, they were just going to like churn up the water around the drowning person. So I got out of the water, stopped the race,
00:45:22
Alissa Magrum
And they, I was like, you cannot do this until you fix it. And sure enough, the second they fixed it, they're not 150 yards in someone started drowning and they had to respond and they were able to respond though, because they had, know, it still wasn't great because they were still volunteers and they still, but they had, they at least could respond. That was one. And then the second one was, it was, it was a, an XTERRA and they had a male, a men's wave and a women's wave. And we were supposed be two,
00:45:52
Alissa Magrum
minutes apart. And so they sent the men off first and all the lifeguards went with the men. And so all of the women are standing there and they're about to start the race. And I'm like, you cannot start this race. Like we have no safety.
00:46:05
Alissa Magrum
So they had to wait until the men came around for their second lap and then they started and they split the guards. But I mean, that kind of stuff is like, and most racers don't have any idea.
00:46:16
Alissa Magrum
Like most people, most people
00:46:17
Rich
Yeah, you're looking for it.
00:46:19
Alissa Magrum
Right. I'm looking for it. And that's because I work in this field all the time. And I think so. I would just challenge athletes to like ask questions, pay attention, do your due diligence and say, think about like, this is what's protecting you.
00:46:33
Alissa Magrum
Like if something happens and, and then race directors, like put the money in and put it, give it to the, pass it off to the racers. Like most people would pay it. And if they wouldn't, then like,
00:46:42
Lauren Brown
I think most people would give up a shirt.
00:46:46
Alissa Magrum
yeah, right.
00:46:47
Lauren Brown
I don't need another shirt. I'd rather have water safety. Keep the shirt.
00:46:50
Alissa Magrum
Right. Yeah.
Conclusion: Personal Accountability in Safety
00:47:03
Rich
You know, and maybe, know, you've got a platform here and, you know, maybe this is a good time just, you know, what would be your overall message to the community about water safety and swim safety?
00:47:18
Alissa Magrum
I would say that drowning is preventable, first of all. And no one is drown proof. I like to speak in sound bites when it's like, you know, things to remember. And I love the whole conversation about personal accountability. Like we as athletes need to think and ask questions and stick up for ourselves and advocate for ourselves. And as race directors on the flip side, like think about You don't want to, trust me, you do not want have a drowning in one of your events. You do not want have to be the one who tells family member that their loved one is still in that water.
00:47:52
Alissa Magrum
And I think that people need to think that this is real and that this is not just going happen to someone else.
00:47:53
Rich
Yeah.
00:48:00
Alissa Magrum
Because I think that's in drowning prevention, whether it's if I'm talking to parents about water safety for their children, or it's like, oh, that's not happen to me. That's happen to somebody else. But guess what?
00:48:11
Alissa Magrum
Like it can happen to any of us. And I think that's the message is like, just it's preventable, but we have to like, it's gotta be on the forefront. Like we can't just pass it off to, oh, this is somebody else's issue. This is not gonna happen to me. I'm a good swimmer. I'm a strong swimmer, that stuff.
00:48:29
Alissa Magrum
It can, it can. And so I just say, but we have the, we have the ability to prevent it. So, and that's the positive part. I mean, right.
00:48:39
Rich
100%. that's what this was about, right? We wanted to put this information out and thank you for, mean, bringing such clarity and honesty in your personal experience and passion to this conversation.
00:48:50
Rich
Open water is beautiful. I love being in open water, but it demands respect.
00:48:52
Alissa Magrum
Yeah.
00:48:53
Rich
And today's discussion is going to make a lot of athletes safer and more aware, I hope for sure. Coach Lauren, you want kind of wrap us up here?
00:49:07
Lauren Brown
I sure will. So, well, one, Alyssa, thank you so much for being here because this was so much information that we need to hear. And for our listeners, today's episode helped you rethink your approach to open water, please share it with a training partner, your local tri club, or your next race director for sure, because spreading knowledge literally saves lives.
00:49:34
Lauren Brown
And again, big thanks again to Alyssa for joining us on the podcast.
00:49:40
Alissa Magrum
I loved it. Thank you for letting me talk about this. And will say if anyone out there listening wants me to do a video for you for your race, I will do it.
00:49:51
Alissa Magrum
would love to do that. That's something that I think if we start modeling that behavior, then it'll become commonplace. So, you know, that's, that you guys can put in my contact information or whatever, but I really do mean that.
00:50:04
Alissa Magrum
That is, it's something that if we, think we just need to start doing, putting these things in just like the whole, you know, let's take the shame out of the buoys and, you know, visibility in the water.
00:50:13
Lauren Brown
Yeah.
00:50:16
Alissa Magrum
All this stuff is only gonna get better and it's gonna save lives.
00:50:21
Rich
going cool just like snowboard helmets.
00:50:22
Alissa Magrum
Yes.
00:50:24
Alissa Magrum
That's right.
00:50:26
Rich
Folks, this was awesome. Stick around here for just a second, Alyssa.
00:50:28
Alissa Magrum
Do you have a full report of the data?
00:50:30
Rich
Folks, our show was sponsored by Vespa Power. Vespa Power Endurance helps you tap into steady, clean energy so you can stay strong, focused, and in the zone longer. Vespa is not fuel. It is a metabolic catalyst. that shifts your body to use more fat and less sugar as a fuel source.
00:50:49
Rich
Bespa comes in a number of products. You get to pick one that works best for you. I like the concentrate, just putting that in my water bottle. Less sugar, higher performance, faster recovery.
00:51:00
Rich
There is a code here for your first purchase. 303 Endurance 20 will get you 20% off your first purchase.
00:51:07
Alissa Magrum
Yeah.
00:51:08
Rich
After that, you can get 15% off of recurring orders. There's a code here in the show notes for that. The link is here. Check it out. You really will notice a difference. Thanks for spending time with us today on the Grit to Greatness Endurance podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode,
00:51:24
Rich
please follow us and leave us a rating on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. It helps us reach more listeners like you. Stay gritty, train smart, and keep chasing greatness.
00:51:34
Rich
We will see you next week.
00:51:36
Alissa Magrum
I
00:51:45
Alissa Magrum
was at the bottom of the air.