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Episode 12: 2x, 5x and 57x
315 Plays20 days ago
Hey there TPP Listeners,
In this show, we focus on a new Amex Graphite Business Charge Card (the 2x), 5x opportunities in Q2 as well as a 5x platform that's going away, and we also get into a crazy 57x Rove booking stunt that could turn into a way to buy JL miles at ~1.1 - 1.2 cpp.
In our main discussion, we talk about how Kristoff spun up a brand new player to the churning game (and how we got spun up ourselves)
Timestamps:
01:09 - Amex Graphite™ Business Cash Unlimited Card
04:41 - Q2 reminders (5x cards)
07:43 - FutureCard (evicted by their banking partner)
11:14 - 57x back on Rove on Prepaid Booking (transfer to JL at 1:1.5 before 3/31/26)
21:39 - Spinning up brand new players to the game
We hope you enjoy the show! -TPP
Join The Points Project Patreon!
Intro/Outro Music Credits:
"Vibing Over Venus"
Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Points Project
00:00:00
Speaker
2x, 5x and even 57x in this episode of the Points Project.
Celebrating Milestones
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Points Project with your hosts Christoph and Raymond. Hey Raymond, how have you been? It's spring and spring cleaning season.
Podcast Origins and Japan Trip
00:00:24
Speaker
I know you went on quite a few adventures, but more importantly, it's now the two year anniversary of the pod. Can you believe it? Yeah, I can't believe it, Christoph. Two years of the podcast.
00:00:35
Speaker
We did our first show. It was like a pilot show, right? March 2024. And, um you know, one of those random ideas that, you know, hey, we we kept it going. So here we are.
New Amex Graphite Card Features
00:00:46
Speaker
And yeah, I did just come back from a Japan trip and i did detail that on our Patreon show. So quick plug for the Patreon podcast. Lots of content there and access to ah a Slack group that, um you know, a lot of like-minded churners out there.
00:00:59
Speaker
Yeah, but I think, you know, let's get into some news here, Christoph. Yep. Well, we started our first show with Amex. Yep. And so we should start this show with Amex news as well. Yes, Amex has released a new Graphite Business Cash Unlimited card. So this Graphite card is a charge card, and it seems to be basically a 2x card, Christoph. If I was reading this right, it is a replacement of the Plum card.
00:01:31
Speaker
Christoph, did you ever have that card? Nope, I never joined the Plum Club. Yeah, I never had the Plum card, but um yeah, I mean, maybe the Graphite card might be working its way into my wallet soon. um So a little detail on this card. So it does come with an annual fee of $295 and it does have a very high, I guess, well, this is common for businesses, right? But like a very high minimum spending requirement of $50,000. I think like the public welcome offer or maybe just like the you know generic welcome offer is a $1,500 statement credit.
00:02:05
Speaker
But um
Comparing Business Cards
00:02:06
Speaker
if you play around with um incognito windows or potentially VPNs or you know just different Wi-Fi setups, you might be able to pull a $2,000 cashback offer. So that really...
00:02:17
Speaker
You know, even takes care of that annual fee in the first year. And right, this is a charge card, just like that plum card was. So, um you know, a couple interesting notes, right? Like there's no credit limit to be aware of.
00:02:29
Speaker
There's no, I think this is probably a big one, depending on how you like to play your game, but no membership rewards either. And basically like a 2% cash back card, as well as like a carve out for 5% cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through Amex travel. But I don't know. Christoph, are you interested in this card? Like, does this does this make you excited?
00:02:51
Speaker
Well, I think this card has a very specific audience. right it To me, it looks like a straight up knockoff of the Spark Cash card from Capital One, which is just a charge card that gives you flat 2%. It's mostly interesting for businesses that have a lot of volume. And I guess the reason why this would be interesting now for anyone is like, hey, if you're a business and it just so happens that it's tax season and, well, you want a new 2% card, well, guess what?
00:03:20
Speaker
Here's an option. now You can take this one, pay a taxes, your estimated taxes, you can probably knock out the sub. But yeah, for the casual player, um that is probably a little bit high, Yeah.
00:03:31
Speaker
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think like if you were in the mood to open up a new card and maybe it's around that time of year where, you know, you're you're getting new applications in or, youre you know, you're just looking at what opportunities are out there. I think like 50K min spend. Yeah, that's hard. But yeah, tax season really comes into play here with like getting into that 50K min spend. And like you said, like Capital One had those, um,
00:03:53
Speaker
I think it's like either the Venture X or the Spark Cash, Spark Travel cards. And even Chase has like a kind of weird card that's similar to this, right? Like where it's ah it's a Chase Inc card, but it's the Premier, right? That's a charge card that actually has a credit limit, if I'm not mistaken, and you can't earn Ultimate Rewards. Like I don't know what Chase is doing over there with that card. Seems like a missed opportunity at least to be able to transfer any earnings into Ultimate Rewards program.
00:04:20
Speaker
yeahp So mostly ah a business card, rather a charge card. Helpful if you have high volume. But again, i think there's lots of other cards out there that compete for this kind of niche. so yeah okay So Amex threw in their head too. It's always great to have more contenders.
00:04:37
Speaker
But yeah maybe maybe not so much for the casual game. But speaking of the casual game, I think there is still something interesting to be had because it's the end of the quarter and that also means we soon get another quarter. And that means we get new 5X categories. And so these 5X categories maybe don't give you as much volume, but they definitely give you quite a bit more leverage.
00:05:01
Speaker
What's out there right now? Do we have the categories already? Yeah, I mean, you get 5x in certain categories and not 50k in capacity, but a little bit less. But yeah, um these personal cards, right? We're talking about the Citi Dividend, Discover It, Chase Freedom, and also a
Future Debit Card Issues
00:05:19
Speaker
lesser known one, right?
00:05:20
Speaker
The ah US Bank Cash Plus card. So let's go through these. On the Citi Dividend, and again, you can't really apply for this card anymore. It's more of a grandfathered situation, right? If you've product changed from another card in the past or if you actually like straight up open this in the past. But Q2, we're looking at grocery stores and city travel.
00:05:41
Speaker
Discover It, we're looking at restaurants and home improvement stores. Chase Freedom, we're looking at Amazon and Chase Travel and Feeding America, Kristoff. I don't know why that's a 5X category. There must be some sort of sponsorship there. And then on the that U.S. Bank Cash Plus card, really you get two categories to choose from.
00:06:03
Speaker
And um your cap here, and instead of 1,500 like the others, you get 2,000 per quarter in those two categories you choose. So ah just a reminder, right? Like spring is here. Get on those Q2 categories. And also, Christopher, we didn't mention this, but like Q1 is ending, right? Like the episode is going to come out. pretty close to the end of Q1. So you know just a reminder to finish up any categories that you haven't finished.
00:06:27
Speaker
Yeah, and that even goes beyond these cards that we just mentioned. but For example, Bank of America has a bunch of 3X or potentially 5X cards right with their rewards program. Online shopping is one of the famous customized cash categories here. But that one is limited to something like $2,500 per quarter. So, well, the quarter is ending, so you can still max it out.
00:06:50
Speaker
Then even in addition to this, there's of course, we mentioned the US Bank Cash Card, but even there's these ELAN cards. These ELAN cards mostly come from credit unions, but they're really just essentially a repackaged version of that US Bank Cash Plus Card. has the same categories, works pretty much the same way. The only nice thing about the Elon version of these cards is, well, you select the categories and they're just fire and forget. For us bank, you have to reselect them every quarter. So just a reminder, if you have one of those cards, especially from credit unions, those two come with the same caps and quarterly categories.
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah, I need to do some research on that, Christoph, because credit unions, Elon cards, 5x, like, ah man, that all sounds great to me. Yeah, there's always opportunities there. Always opportunities. And here's one opportunity, Christoph, that ah they had a 5x opportunity. But, you know, multipliers don't always last. At some point, they become unsustainable.
00:07:53
Speaker
And what are we talking about here, Christoph? Yes, well, it's ah one of our famous fintechs. I'm not sure if you've heard about it, but there is, where shall we say was, well, we'll find out, a card that's known as the Future Debit Card.
00:08:09
Speaker
And that card was mostly geared towards, let's sustainability, or public transit, lots of ah categories that usually don't show up, but a bonus at five x And so FutureCard used to offer a bunch of different subscriptions and memberships, but yeah unfortunately it looks like they've been evicted by their banking partner and it's not really clear where they're changing to.
00:08:35
Speaker
Because oftentimes when fintechs announce that they're changing banking partners, they tell you where they are changing to, but that didn't happen for future. So unfortunately, the only thing that we know is that the rewards are now being redeemed for cashback and the cards are going to stop working in a month from now towards the end of April.
00:08:56
Speaker
So that is unfortunate. But yeah, this is a 5x opportunity that had been there for a while. But yeah, it looks like this is not going to last.
00:09:07
Speaker
So yeah, Christoph, it sounds like FutureCard no longer has a future. Am I right? Oh no. Well, I think you might be you might be right. You see, actually, now that I think of it, I mean, i actually opened up this card for myself and my P2 and I never really got into using it. So now I guess I have this card closed and I'm maybe going to get a few pennies out of it, like whatever I had left there and deposits. Have you actually ever used that card?
00:09:36
Speaker
Yeah, i opened up the account. I don't know if it was maybe like 2023, 2024. I don't know. I could check my spreadsheet. But, um you know, it's funny, Christoph, they actually closed my account like totally.
00:09:47
Speaker
In my opinion, it was there was no reason to. But really, yeah, I submitted a ticket to support and I was like, hey, um I want to change my address. And Keep in mind, I didn't really do much with this card. And they asked for like, okay, well, who are you? Let's validate your identity. Okay. And then I sent him, you know, here's here's my new proof of address. And then they took six weeks, hence six weeks to respond to that and said, Hey, um, yeah, actually we're going close down your account. And this, what This decision is irreversible. I was like, what? why I was like actually mad about this because I was like, okay, me I know that there's some, there's something I can leverage with this account, right? Like a 5X card always has some opportunity. And I had a penny in there. And so I literally dragged this out for another month. And I was like, hey, I need you guys to mail me a check.
00:10:38
Speaker
and make sure you mail it to the right address. So it took them, it took like not two months, but a little bit more than a month. And they finally sent me a check for one penny. And I deposited that out of spite. I could have just let it go.
00:10:50
Speaker
Wow, well, that's how it goes. I guess this is one of these eyes on the account situations, but you didn't really move states or anything. So, wow, that that that's a weird one.
00:11:03
Speaker
But yeah, fintechs, man. fintex or Fintechs are a whole
Rove and Japan Airlines Partnership
00:11:08
Speaker
another story, yeah. But yeah, 5X, yeah, no more with Future Card, I guess. So speaking of multipliers, right, so we started with t wax We're talking about 5x here. But what if you want a real multiplier, you know something like 20 or 50x? I think there's also some opportunities out there, aren't there? Yeah, yeah.
00:11:30
Speaker
oh I mean, 20x, I remember, Christoph, one of our first episodes, we talked about 27x on spend with Amex. So I mean, we're getting really up in the clouds here.
00:11:40
Speaker
But we're talking about this Japan Airlines and Rove new partnership because I did see a post that I kind of wanted to go through because I thought this was actually a crazy idea with the Rove platform. And so um let's go over two main things here. So first of all, Rove.
00:11:58
Speaker
so rove is a shopping portal that um basically you know you can shop there just like a rakuten type of idea and you can earn points for shopping or you know hotel bookings etc and then they actually partnered with japan airlines and so japan airlines right you can transfer your rove miles earnings into the program and uh through the 31st of this month they actually have a 50 transfer bonus right so if you had a thousand Rove miles, you can transfer that into Japan Airlines for 1,500 Japan Airlines miles. And i already did that on my end, like with whatever Rove earnings I had. I went ahead and just transferred, you know, whatever I had because I do have a use for the Japan Airlines miles.
00:12:37
Speaker
And so, um you know, one particular aspect of the Rove miles program is whether you book a prepaid rate or a pay when you stay rate, right? And um I want to focus on the prepaid rates because, um you know, with pay when you stay rates, they award those miles to your Rov account basically at the end of the stay.
00:12:55
Speaker
With prepaid rates, they basically give you those miles up front, right? A lot of times these prepaid rates, they're non-refundable. And so I think, um you know, there was this one post by Cloud9 Club that i I wanted to go over. I'll include the link to this article in the show notes. And I'm not sure if this is like...
00:13:13
Speaker
going to last long or there's there you know there's a high chance of malfunction here. But essentially, people have found some prepaid rates for particular hotels where you know these multipliers are like 57x.
00:13:27
Speaker
I did check the post and I saw that there was this one like literally $100 a night hotel in in Tokyo. And they were offering 57 miles back per dollar spent. And the crazy thing about this was that, right, I mentioned it's $100 hotel night.
00:13:43
Speaker
For whatever reason, and this is probably explaining why there's such a high multiplier, one of the rates that they're offering is like a $5,000-something-dollar-per-night hotel rate, and it's a prepaid rate, non-cancellable.
00:13:57
Speaker
But you'll basically earn, what is this, right? 57x times 5,000. You're earning close to 300,000 JAL miles right off the bat if you spend about $5,500 to $6,000 for this hotel. Does that sound already crazy enough to you, Christoph? Yeah, it does. And I feel somebody is playing a game here.
00:14:20
Speaker
But yeah, keep going. So the part that I wanted to highlight here is that through the end of this month, every Rove Mile that you earn could be 1.5 Jal Miles. So if you earned close to 300,000 Jal Miles, you're looking at close to, what like 500k Jal Miles, which is pretty insane, right? So you could look at this as buying...
00:14:41
Speaker
Japan Airlines miles at close to like 1.1 cents per point. I think like the exact math when I did this calculation was like 1.17 cents per point. um I just wanted to mention this because, hey, it is a time-sensitive deal. And, um you know, you could be buying a lot of miles for very cheap with Japan Airlines. Like, I think like...
00:15:02
Speaker
A lot of times we talk about, like would you pay one cent per point for a valuable airline mile currency? And some of us would say yes, right? Depending on our needs and depending on the characteristics of the program, it can make a lot of sense.
00:15:14
Speaker
So Christoph, the post itself is crazy, but there are data points that it is working. like Would you buy JAL miles at 1.1, 1.2 cents per point if you saw an opportunity like this?
00:15:28
Speaker
Man, okay, so two things here. First, what could possibly go wrong with a fintech? Second of all, well, I can absolutely see a use for these gel miles.
00:15:39
Speaker
So, okay, let me let me speak this up. So first of all, why would I want gel miles? Well, for me, of course, I really like going to Asia and GLMiles work really well. I mean, especially when you book GLMetal, you have great availability, both in business as well as in first.
00:16:00
Speaker
And the rates are reasonable, right? So... GAL miles right now, they become increasingly available. right So for example, Build can transfer now. there's new whatever There's a number of transfer partners that were recently opening up access to GAL. So definitely GAL is going to get more and more crowded in terms of awards being used up by people. But right now, I think GAL miles still have quite some value because there's lots of availability.
00:16:33
Speaker
Now, the other side of this is, well, the risk. Well, guess what? You spent $5,000 to $6,000 and it's a prepaid rate, so you're probably not going to get this money back if something goes wrong.
00:16:47
Speaker
And then, well, ah you're essentially betting that Rove will make good on the promise and it will go off without a hitch. Now, people have reported that it does work, so maybe it does. And to be honest, it kind of reminds me of ah a Simply Miles deal that existed a few years back where you were able to buy a pretty crazy amounts of American Airlines miles by donating to a charity and then taking advantage of some multiplier.
00:17:19
Speaker
The thing is that here we're talking about Rove, which is just a startup, whereas Simply Miles is, well, backed by MasterCard and by American Airlines. So back then for the steal for American Airlines, well, yeah, MasterCard and American Airlines actually poned up the points. So people went very, very hard on this.
00:17:40
Speaker
And well, MasterCard and American Airlines could afford it. Now here, well, it's just Rove and a three-star hotel in Japan. So it means there is a little bit less backup there if something goes wrong. On the other hand, I don't think there are going to be as many people going crazy on this. And the second thing is...
00:18:04
Speaker
It sounds to me like ah whoever put this prepaid rate there for that hotel probably knows what they're doing and this exists for a reason and on purpose. So yeah, well quite some risk but yeah Japan E-Line Miles pretty good.
00:18:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I think you could look at this as like, well, if you're willing to put the money down up front and you're willing to take the risk that something might go wrong, but probably, you know, based on these data points that we're seeing, especially on the link that we're going to share in the show notes, it's working.
00:18:34
Speaker
And so if you're willing to take that risk and you have a lot of Japan travel coming up, or at least you want to travel on Japan Airlines or you have use for like Japan Airlines partners, This could be a very good opportunity, especially if you want to get those miles in your account quickly. You know me, Christoph, I'm spending one mile per dollar on my FNBO JAL USA card. So i'm I'm slow and steady over there.
00:18:58
Speaker
But um looking at the rates and you know Japan Airlines, especially business at first class, these are um variable award prices. right But on the low end, especially if you're planning far out, you can get as low as $55K one way in business. And then I believe it's $110K for first one way. But when I check, I see tons of different pricing. So you know i think it's right for somebody.
00:19:22
Speaker
But you know basically, your mileage may vary. and you know did ah approach what is it approach this deal carefully, but you know there there there is potentially an upside.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah, enjoy responsibly, but it it sure makes one hell of a honeymoon in first class back and forth to Tokyo. For sure. And ah last thing here is, you know especially if you're new to the JAL program, just remember, right like you might do this deal and um you know you realize you don't have a
Strategies for New Credit Card Players
00:19:52
Speaker
JAL account. Well, if you create a brand new JAL account, right you can't really book until 60 days after account opening. So that's like the first hurdle that you kind of have to Be ready for, again, you know if you think you're going to use JAL in the future, create the account now. And then last thing is JAL has a three-year expiration policy on their miles. So you know just keep that in mind as well. right like You kind of have to have these trips lined up.
00:20:15
Speaker
But, Christoph, when I saw this, I was like, should I do it? Should I do it? like i could I think we can make use of that. But um the the thing that kind of like... i kind of wanted to use ah a referral, like maybe you refer P2 over to Rove right before this, because I think that there was like a little bit of a bump in the earnings rate if you were being referred as a brand new user versus somebody who already has an existing account. And... um yeah I don't think I'm going to do it, but you know that's another consideration. right like You can refer people on Rove and get a slight bonus for the referrer and the referee.
00:20:49
Speaker
So keep in mind, right like that this JAL and Rove promo, um it sounds crazy, but it's not the only way to also top off your Japan Airlines account. right like There's still, as I said, that FNBO JAL USA card that you can look into. The earning rates are not that great, but if you want a JAL-focused card, that's the one I think to get. And again, if you have you know Capital One, right you can transfer i think you'd like your your venture points or Capital One points over to JAL. The rate kind of fluctuates whenever they're running a promo.
00:21:20
Speaker
gets closer to one-to-one, but um it you know Capital One is something to look at. And then lastly, built. right They, I think, recently added Japan Airlines as a transfer partner. So you have options, right? But if you're looking for the the big home run, the grand slam, yeah, I think this Rove promo with JAL could be for you.
00:21:39
Speaker
So Kristof, that JAL promo, that can be a huge new adventure for somebody new to the game. But how would we actually go about spinning up new players just in general, right? like I think that's a good question to ask.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's also very timely, right? When we talked about this before the show, but essentially I had the opportunity to help spin up a new player, potentially.
00:22:04
Speaker
A new credit profile is now coming of age around me. And we figured, hey, we got to get a first credit card here.
00:22:14
Speaker
And that's one of these questions that tends to pop up on the various credit card forums over and over and there's all kinds of standard recommendations so i figured well i have a little bit of a different opinion and uh we can just uh dive into this and talk about it what we ended up doing here because i think it's interesting especially if you're thinking about hey either getting your first credit card or you have other people around yourself that also try to get new or first credit cards Yeah.
00:22:44
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that's very relatable. um I know that, you know, when I met P2, she had a few credit cards of her own and I was like already established in this game. And this is like five years ago at this point. But I remember thinking carefully about like, well, right, like the the generic recommendation that we have for people is the Chase Sapphire Preferred, right? The $95 annual fee card from Chase that has transferability and i don't know, like kind of like moderate category bonuses that could be leveraged with day-to-day spend. I mean, yeah, when you're in your like late-
00:23:16
Speaker
20s, early 30s, right? like Dining is going to be a big part of your spend, travel is going to be a big part of your spend. And so for P2, that made a lot of sense. And so um that was actually my way of spinning up P2 with new accounts. And then you kind of just like graduate from there. Christoph, what did you actually end up doing with your new player in this situation?
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah, so for me, it was different in the sense that this is literally a brand new player. So of course, Chase is not going to give you a Sapphire a Preferred or really hardly any credit card at all.
00:23:50
Speaker
But we essentially had to make up our mind and say, all right, do we go and just get, say, one of the Discover It cards or say, yeah Capital One Quicksilver card? But there's a bunch of recommendations out there that are very typical for the first card.
00:24:06
Speaker
But we actually ended up going with Bank of America. And i think there's a little bit of context here. Namely, if you just want to apply for a credit card, right, and you essentially have no savings and no bank account, essentially nothing in your name, then these basic recommendations like Discover It or or Capital One and so on, they will work.
00:24:28
Speaker
However, if you have some money, and I don't just mean, you know, a little bit like five grand, Whatever there's different recommendations second some people select 6k 8k whatever between 5 and 10 grand typically when you open a bank account and With any of the larger retail banks and you put the money there Chances are that retail bank will immediately approve you for a credit card So this works with Chase. It works with else Fargo. It also works with Bank of America or US Bank
00:24:59
Speaker
In general, some banks, especially like US Bank and Bank of America, are more relationship focused. So they tend to be more generous with credit limits. And so what we ended up doing here is, well, know new player, okay, some savings, for such a a little bit under 10K, enough to put it on a checking account, just let it sit there for a week. And then we went...
00:25:24
Speaker
in branch to apply for a credit card. there right This is also comes with a bank of referrals. So we wanted to make sure that we have the highest chance of approval. And we also wanted to get a decent credit limit. Let's put it like this. right So you don't want to to have the $500 discovery credit limit, but maybe get like, you know, $2, $3, $4K, so that you can actually use that card.
00:25:46
Speaker
And so, yeah, we went in. Bank of America right now for the customized cash card, as they call it, has kind of a nice tiered bonus in the sense that they give you 200 bucks for $1,000 spent right in the first three months. But more interestingly, this card also has some long-term value because it has various 3X categories and that they can be bumped up right to with their rewards program. We mentioned this earlier.
00:26:13
Speaker
But the the idea being, hey, we want to get a first card. We want to have a decent credit limit. And yes, the card should have some long term value. but For example, the online shopping category, totally worth it. right Just take the card, set it up, hook it up with all of your online shopping profiles. And unless you go very crazy shopping, $2,500 per quarter is probably going to be enough to get you a nice return on the spend that you do anyways.
00:26:39
Speaker
So yeah, um we applied but with some money in the bank account. In the end, the limit was just around $4,000, which was very nice, given that this is a completely new profile.
00:26:51
Speaker
But yes, so we now have the card. And it's time to start hitting that sub. And of course, also make sure that we spend in categories because that way we get the essentially 20% return on the signup bonus, right? The $200 for 1,000. But on top of that, we also get the now 6x because this is kind of part of the sub per category for up to 2,500 quarter.
00:27:19
Speaker
And yeah, it's the end of the quarter right now, so we'll try to get the 2500 maxed out for this quarter. We'll be able to do so because we have a decent credit limit. And yeah, I was very happy that worked. And so this is something that I also did a long time ah ago with my P2. And yeah, it still works. So definitely something I recommend as an approach.
00:27:41
Speaker
Yes, for sure. I've heard a lot of data points as as far as spinning up new players that um I think you mentioned it right up front, which is having a banking relationship, at least for a brand new player, is going to help, right? Like in having some funds with that bank, um I think, you know, if if an application goes...
00:27:58
Speaker
It's kind of like borderline approval, yes or no. i think like if an underwriter was looking at, well, what is your relationship? And it shows, obviously, that you have some funds with them. I think that they're more likely to extend that credit, right? Because they they know they have at least some knowledge that you have some some some deposit accounts with the, I don't know if you can call it collateral, Christoph, but like they know you got the money, right? So yeah i think I think that does help with a lot of banks, not not just BFA. I've seen it with Citibank. So this is a good strategy. I agree.
00:28:28
Speaker
And Christoph, so I have a follow-up question here, right? So obviously you got the new card account, but what is the plan after that? I think that it's a no annual fee card, the customized cash rewards. So you're going to keep it indefinitely, i would imagine.
00:28:44
Speaker
But, ah you know, we churn here at the Points Project. Like, what is the long-term strategy from
Reflections on Credit Building
00:28:50
Speaker
there? Like, do you want to go with... 5x category cards that we mentioned thread or more of these types of cards right like the the customized cash is a good one to have maybe you can get multiple what's your strategy yeah so it really depends on how the new player wants to play think the nice thing about the customized cash card is okay it's a very good set it and forget it card it's going to give you a decent return
00:29:18
Speaker
Now, depending on how this works out, of course, I'm going to try to convince them to ah go and collect signup bonuses, right? So now, of course, it's a new card. So wait ah probably another three, six months or so but before really starting new applications with other card issues.
00:29:36
Speaker
But once this develops and ah you're are able to consistently sign up for new cards and get them, then, of course, signup bonuses in general give you the best bang for the buck, right? There's many cards, especially in the low to medium annual fee tier, let's say like a hundred bucks or so in annual fees, say some CDAA cards or just various airline and and points cards that give you a really good return.
00:30:05
Speaker
And so typically, I'd say between 15% even 20%. So especially, i mentioned tax season before, but yeah, if you're, say, running your own business or you have a side gig and you need to make estimated tax payments, that's oftentimes an opportunity to literally just hit a sign-on bonus like four or five times a year. Because guess what? You make estimated payments and every time you need to make an estimated payment, well, well, You just use your credit card. Yes, there's some credit card fees like 2%, but who cares if you're returning like 15 to 20% in terms of miles or points that you get out of that. right
00:30:40
Speaker
So yeah I think sign-up bonuses are very hard to beat in terms of return. But as you said, well, there's... But the plan might change based on the character. So if you're more the set it and forget it type, then maybe 5X cards are an option. And we've mentioned the US Bank Cash card, right? And then I also brought up the ELAN cards because credit unions essentially you have these ELAN cards that are essentially these US Bank Cash Plus cards. The advantage though is that you just set the category once
00:31:18
Speaker
And then you keep it going, right? It just keeps working. So if that new player then you know wants to set up, say, a new utilities account or he has a gym membership or has any of these categories that are covered and there's really many choices there, they can just set this category and enter their card in their subscription or their utility company. or you know wherever it is. And as the charges come through, they hit the card and they just keep returning five x And then once per year, you go in and you essentially collect the points or the cashback. So that works very well, even without thinking about subs and getting new cards and essentially being busy in that game.
00:32:04
Speaker
It's a matter of what kind of things you personally prefer. And so here I thought, okay, it's probably easier to get a player started with a card that you can you know set and forget. And then if they want to do more and they actually want to turn cards, you can always do this later on. And this card is still going to work. It's a good starting point.
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I think like um with B of A and that customized cash reward, I think that's a perfect option for like building the credit. And then over time, right, like, and I noticed this when I started getting into this game like 13 years ago at this point, I did have like one credit card for a long time when I was like in high school. And it was like, ah i think that eventually turned into a Quicksilver, but I didn't really use that card. So I didn't really have much of a credit history. But when I first started in this game, um a friend actually recommended that I sign up for this NFL Extra Points Visa card. There was a 1K spending requirement for $400 statement credit.
00:33:01
Speaker
And I was worried that I would get approved because I was like a college student at the time didn't really have any history or you know good history to to speak of. And um just like your player that you just spun up, I think like, you know, just getting one of these types of cards just to get your bearings in order. Because once I got that, I think my second card was actually an Amex personal gold. And I think they call it like the premier rewards gold at that time. And that one was 1K spend with 50,000 membership rewards. And so we went straight from like, well, you know, a smaller meager sign up. I guess 400 is not really a great example here, but like we were already... by card to me, not we, I was already getting 50,000 points from 1K spend on like my second card. And I think that's where like the hook really went into my mouth. And, you know, that's really where the the juices started flowing. i was like, okay, I see the opportunity here. But I think the main reason I mentioned that is because i was really good about, you know, spending on the card each month. i didn't have a lot of spend back then. And then just paying it off in full and just like building that history and, um,
00:34:06
Speaker
man, Christoph, what I would give to be young again. Because I remember from that point on with that Premier Rewards Gold, we started hitting the Chase Sapphire. i did That was one of my first other cards that I got. We we started venturing out into the Ink platform, which was great for a while. And i think just things naturally started to progress from there. And so getting a new player started with a simple card and building that history really opens a lot of doors. And yeah.
00:34:35
Speaker
These days, Christoph, I really wish I was brand new to this game. Yeah, this is ah one of these cases of, oh, well, what I wish I knew when I got started. But yeah, i guess what? We can pay it forward. So here, listen to this show and enjoy our wisdom.
00:34:50
Speaker
So, Christoph, I mentioned my first card. I mean, really, it was kind of two first cards. Really, I had like a long-standing Capital One card, and then I really got started with that NFL card. But what was your first credit card in this game?
00:35:03
Speaker
So, I had... A Wells Fargo card. And contrary to what people think, I actually knew it existed because, you know, those were the days where cards would just appear out of nowhere. But yes, I remember.
00:35:19
Speaker
i also, i opened a checking account and I put some money on there and applied for that card. And they gave me an approval, but I think the card has something like $500 credit limit Now, obviously, with a $500 credit limit, you can't do that much, right? So ah you go grocery shopping, maybe you buy a ticket for you know the train, but you can't even buy a plane ticket or anything. It's just, it's very low. So very soon after I had this card, i actually went in and said, like hey, can you bump this credit limit up so I can at least buy a laptop?
00:35:55
Speaker
And I think I wanted to buy a laptop that was around $1,300. So I asked him for like, $1,400. And so, of course, I had to ask for a credit limit increase. And so here i am with a completely new credit profile and a completely new credit card asking for a credit limit increase. And wouldn't you know, i actually got it.
00:36:17
Speaker
So apparently that too was just a function of having some assets with the bank. Not a lot, right? But essentially just a few K on the bank account was apparently good enough for the computer to deem less of a credit risk. And yeah, so I was able to buy that laptop. Even though that laptop essentially ate a big chunk of my net worth, but who cares? Yeah, Wells Fargo credit card.
00:36:42
Speaker
That was how I got started. And I think the next one I really got was already the Amazon Prime store card, which I still have to this day. And yeah, well, guess what?
00:36:54
Speaker
Another 5x opportunity there. So I guess I'm really talking my book here. That's so funny, Christoph. Wells Fargo and the Amazon Prime Store card. Yeah, I mean, it sounds a lot like how I started too, because I remember being like, oh yeah, 5x cards? yeah what That's great.
00:37:10
Speaker
And, ah you know, things escalate from there. And look at where we both are today. We're helping others scale up their games as well. Well, see, the good news is that our new players surely do have a bright future ahead of them, and no matter how they choose to play this game.
00:37:25
Speaker
That's for sure. Whether it be 2x multipliers, 5x multipliers, or 57x, there's a lot of opportunity to be had. Well, Christoph, I think that's a show. Want to wrap things up?
00:37:36
Speaker
I think it's a show. All right. Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of The Points Project with your hosts, Christoph and Raymond. Have a good one, everybody. See you next time.
00:37:46
Speaker
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