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Episode 9: The Credit Card Game Is Always Changing
310 Plays1 month ago
00:43 - Citi Strata Elite
- Details: 80K TYP | $4K | 90d | $595 AF ($450 AF w/ CitiGold)
2:05 - Pulling 100K Offer—2 options
- In-branch
- US Credit Card Guide
- US Card Forum (still alive as of 08/18/2025)
- Citi Nights - 6x on Dining?
- First to market with hourly CC benefits
- Strata Elite Benefits
- Raymond’s P2 approval via 100K link
- Did Kristoff apply?
- Multiple Strata Elites?
- Year 2 options and beyond…
- 18:18 American Airlines enables up TYP transfers (again)
- Is this a good thing or bad thing?
- Incremental value vs. newcomers to AA
- Is a devaluation now inevitable?
23:00 - Atmos Rewards Summit Visa Infinite Credit Card (FM article)
- Rumored SUB Details: 5K upon approval | 100K | $6K | 90d | $395 AF
- 25K Global Companion Award
- 100K Global Companion Award after 60K spend
- No partner award booking fees (save $12.50 p/p on a partner award booking)
- Up to 3.3x on dining spend and foreign transactions
- $50 voucher for 2 hour flight delay or cancellation
- 1 EQM per $2 spend
- 10K EQMs each year on account anniversary
- Mileage Plan and HawaiianMiles will become Atmos Rewards on 10/01/2025
- Will it be possible to spend up to top-tier MVP Gold 100K? ($200K spend in year 1?)
- Do we spend for AA status or shift to spending towards AS status?
- 2x spend on AA cobranded cards vs. possibility to spend at 3x on the Summit
- How excited are we about this card?
40:42 - US Bank Altitude Reserve - Devaluation
- US Card Forum leaked document
- Long time coming - no more 4.5% cashback uncapped effective 12/14/2025
- 3x mobile wallet spend now capped at 5K per statement cycle
- Points now worth 1cpp if redeemed for travel or as deposit into eligible US Bank account
- $325 Travel / Dining credit can now only be used for travel purchased through US Bank Travel
- Transfer partners? TBD
- Pour one out for a legend
46:54 - US Bank Smartly - Devaluation
- Within 6 months of release, 4% cashback is now borderline useless
- Now, 100k in checking/savings with $10K per statement cycle cap on 4% with many MCC exclusions
- Grandfathered Smartly cards
- 100K in investment accounts still grants access to 4% cashback
- $10K per statement cycle
- Hopefully US Bank is done with nerfs
- Seems like the credit card market is shifting toward more premium cards with higher annual fees, with banks aiming to induce breakage
- Positive shifts with Citi and BofA
- Negative shifts with US Bank
We hope you enjoy! -TPP
Join The Points Project Patreon!
Intro/Outro Music Credits:
"Vibing Over Venus"
Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to The Points Project
00:00:00
Speaker
The credit card game is always changing in this episode of The Points
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello and welcome to The Points Project with your hosts Christoph and Raymond. Hey Raymond, how have you been?
Premium Credit Cards: Opportunities and Challenges
00:00:20
Speaker
It's been a while and the game is changing. We're moving towards more expensive, more premium cards, but also more opportunities to game them.
00:00:29
Speaker
So what's up? Hey, Christoph. Yeah, it's been a while. Glad to catch up with you. I miss talking to you, buddy. um But I think you know the first thing that's been all over the blogs recently has been the Citi Strata Elite card.
00:00:44
Speaker
So why don't we go over the details here? um Because I think there's a lot to unpack and a lot of things to think about if you want to maximize your value from this card. So Citi, you know, at the end of July, they released this Strata Elite card.
00:00:59
Speaker
And if you think about it, like you look at Chase and Amex, they've been really heavy into the premium side of the credit card consumer rewards game. And Citi has just been sitting along, not doing much here.
00:01:10
Speaker
You know, they revamped their Citi Strata Premier card. And that was like a, you know, a ho-hum revamp. And then we were all just waiting, like, what Citi going to do next to really revamp, you know, on the premium side, like the prestige that's been hanging around and ah no longer available to new applicants. And you know if you've had that card, you've probably been holding onto it because it it had some great multipliers on, I think, like dining.
00:01:32
Speaker
Yeah, 5x dining was certainly juicy, and they had a bunch of other benefits, especially when it comes to launch access. But yes, I mean, the card is only grandfathered, and you can't get it anymore. And everybody was worried too with this new City Strutter Elite card, whether they might lose their precious prestige. But at least for now, it sounds like the old prestige will still stay around. So good for everyone who has it.
Deep Dive into Citi Strata Elite Card
00:01:56
Speaker
And then for everyone else, including us, there is the Elite. So what's up with that one? Yeah, so Citi came roaring back. Looks like their welcome offer that they started off with was a public offer for 80K.
00:02:10
Speaker
And I think that's a 4K spend requirement, 90 days. And then you know this comes with that hefty annual fee of $595. Unless you're a Citi Gold client, where I think they have a carve out for like if you have Citi Gold status with Citi,
00:02:24
Speaker
I think they removed like $145 on the annual fee. So it comes out to a net $450 annual fee, which really looks juicy if you are already Citigold. But for the rest of us, right, like $595. Okay, fine.
00:02:37
Speaker
If you're in the game, you're probably used to a lot of like huge annual fees. And so I think you'll find a way to make this work. So the 80K offer was the public offer. But then you know if you've been following on forums and you know like Doctor of Credit, you know you'll see that there's actually a way to get this 100K offer.
00:02:53
Speaker
And there's kind of two main ways to get this. So the first one is if you talk to a city banker in branch and just ask for an application and you say like, I'm specifically interested in this 100K offer, um i think the ones from the local banker, those will come with the 100K signup bonus.
00:03:12
Speaker
And then the other thing is like, i don't know, I've been reading Doctor of Credit and then I've seen like links to other, you know, blogs and specifically like U.S. Credit Card Guide made this post and they actually linked over to U.S. Card Forum. And this is where I saw this, ah because apparently there's this like, quote unquote, black magic link, which actually just gets you the 100K offer straight up.
00:03:33
Speaker
So up to you, right? Like if you want to go in and talk to a Citibank or in branch, maybe make a, you know, some sort of a contact, right? Like build a report with your local banker. That might be useful. um But also if you're just lazy like me, you just go and find this find this link. I'll include the link in the show notes if you want to go check that out. Because I think it's still working.
00:03:54
Speaker
I checked a couple days ago and I still was able to pull up that 100K offer. And so actually... um That's actually what I ended up using. So, okay, other than the signup bonus, like what else is of value here, right? So um the card actually has some interesting details as far as like what it earns.
00:04:09
Speaker
So um but probably the biggest one that jumps out to most people is going to be this 12x thank you point earning on, a you know, basically travel bookings through city travel. um So I think that covers like hotels, car rentals, and attractions.
00:04:22
Speaker
um And then flights, if you book via city travel, you're going to earn 6x. So ah it's kind of sad that you don't earn 12x on flights, but I guess they can't really afford to have everybody booking flights specifically through their travel portal.
00:04:35
Speaker
And one of the most interesting things here is, um you know as ah as a base earning on dining, because dining is very important on this card, you're going to earn 3x. However... there's this 6x carve-out for what they call City Nights.
00:04:48
Speaker
And City Nights is really just their way of saying, if you spend on Friday and Saturday between 6pm and 6am Eastern Time, you're going to earn this 6x multiplier.
00:04:59
Speaker
And, um... Christophe, I know me and you have gone back and forth like, what are how is this benefit really going to be tracking? And is it reliable? And are we going to be sitting at dinner and like you know kind of timing or timing when we finish dinner so like we can make sure that these things post on time? like ah so Christophe, what do you think about like this whole 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. Eastern time? Are you going to move your ah dining schedule just so you can earn the six acts Yeah, I mean, first of all, I'm on the West Coast, right? So for me, it's a three-hour shift there. But really to be honest, I mean, and if i I mean, I gotta give it to the city. They have innovated in the sense that now we we are here to like hourly credits, right? So yeah you you only get six X multipliers between...
00:05:50
Speaker
like these hours of the day okay great i guess this is some sort of innovation i'm not sure if i'm a big fan mean from what i hear and read it actually seems to track correctly and so if the transaction is authorized during these hours then it does seem to post 6x so that's good news but on the other hand Well, if you're actually using this card for business purposes and that doesn't include, you know, I don't know, partying and ball service on Fridays and Saturday nights, then you're probably only going to get those three eggs for dining.
00:06:27
Speaker
So the category is nice to have some headliner effect. But yeah, it's practical use is limited, at least for my purposes. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Even if like you don't get your six X, I mean, you still get three X, right? So it's not like you lost all your multipliers, right? You still get, you're just losing out on three X. So, I mean, depending on how much you're spending on dining, like that could mean a lot, could be also negligible. So, yeah.
00:06:52
Speaker
Um, And I guess like a nice thing here, I mean, it's not as good as the city double cash, but you still get like 1.5x on everything else, which is okay. um I'm happy that it's not just a base 1x, like 1.5 seems okay, you know, if you've got other things to spend on.
00:07:10
Speaker
So as far as like, you know, with premium cards, they come with many card benefits really to offset this annual fee that you got to pay. um There's a $300 annual hotel benefit. So this is a calendar year benefit where if you spend 300 or more, you'll get a $300 credit. Like as long as this is a two night stay, you're going to get that credit. And so that's nice, right? Like you you pay one annual fee, you get at least two of these.
00:07:32
Speaker
as long as you're staying at a hotel booked through city travel. um You also get this, it's an interesting credit. I've never seen this before, but it's called a splurge credit. And I think it's just really like, hey, but we're gonna give you some money back as long as you spent one of these merchants on, I don't know, splurge purchases. Like ah the the one that I really,
00:07:51
Speaker
noticed here is Best Buy. Like, i don't know, I spend quite a bit at Best Buy and I could i could see myself really easily using this benefit. um But some of the other ones here are like First Dibs, never heard of that.
00:08:02
Speaker
American Airlines, well, if you fly American, I don't really fly American, but you know, that should be a very easy one to use. um Future Personal Training, don't know what that is. and Live Nation, I think Live Nation is like ticket sales. So know, I could also easily see myself using this for like concert tickets or sporting event tickets because um I have used the Live Nation app before and found it to be useful. I've used it in the past.
00:08:27
Speaker
You also get four Admirals Club passes, right? And so it's not a membership to Admirals Club. Like ah you might get on that that Premium City AA card. But and don't know, like if we happen to, it seems like one of those benefits where it's like, oh, you know, happenstance. i was a I was flying American Airlines that day and, you know, made use of the passes. So we'll see if we'll actually get any chance to use this.
00:08:51
Speaker
And then like, you know, rounding things out here, right? You get your global entry, you get priority pass select. The benefits overall are useful if you can, you know, figure out how to use them.
00:09:03
Speaker
And that's really where, you know, the devil's in the details is you got to figure out how to use these. You got to put some work in to get your money back as far as maximizing value.
00:09:14
Speaker
So for me, I actually went in on this card for P2, and she does not have much of a Citi relationship. She has that Citi Costco Visa, which gets some use, but really like her her relationship with Citi is you know prime for you know getting in and getting on board and starting to maximize some value out of this.
00:09:33
Speaker
So she went in on that 100K link that I mentioned upstream, and she got approved with a pretty hefty credit limit. And so I haven't seen the card come in the mail yet. As soon as I get that, like'm I'm pretty excited about you know starting to earn some thank you points because ah we we don't have thank you points in our household just yet, and we're about to.
Maximizing Citi Strata Elite Benefits
00:09:52
Speaker
um I'm excited because like one of the most important transfer partners that Citi has, for me at least, And for what we're trying to do, at least in the next year, is um fly on Eva Airlines in that Hello Kitty jet.
00:10:05
Speaker
like ah That has been something that me and P2 talk about like every week, is like we want to fly on O'Hare to Taipei. And like I think P2 has been asking for this for close to five years now. And so ah that has really been where the focus is on like at least sign-up bonus. When we get that, we're going to book or in a book out of O'Hare and fly on that specific flight. so That is our prime use for the city thinking you points. But again, they they have a ton of transfer partners um that, you know, worth looking into.
00:10:34
Speaker
Well, that's one hell of a carrot here flying on that Hello Kitty chat. You see, the funny thing is that probably the biggest news for CD points is that finally the transfers to AA have been enabled. But yes, I mean, sure, let's go on Hello Kitty. That's probably exciting too.
00:10:53
Speaker
But maybe a little bit of a more niche use case there. I can certainly see the appeal of the card. right So the signup bonus, of course, around 100K is very nice. On the other hand, well, yeah, this annual fee is hefty, but you know this is just where the industry is going right now.
00:11:08
Speaker
And then here we are, and we are couponing our way out of really having to pay this fee and not getting anything back. I guess the card is really designed to work in connection with the Citi Gold membership, right which means if you have 200k with Citi, then hey, you know you get some additional benefits, some ah relationship benefits, really somewhat similar to what, say, yeah Chase Private Client or the preferred rewards from BFA offers.
00:11:38
Speaker
And so that card here really seems to shoot this direction. You get a fee waiver with Citigold. Citigold itself also has some additional rebates that they give you, I think, like something like $200 a year for like Amazon Prime or like Costco memberships and so on.
00:11:56
Speaker
And so that really combines nicely with this card. I guess in the end, yeah, well, if you're good at maximizing, then yes, these hotel credits and the splurge credits and taking advantage of essentially the benefits that come with Citi Gold can really make up for the fee here.
00:12:14
Speaker
But in the end, it's one of these premium cards where you say, well, the benefits are not really that innovative. But you can make it work if you maximize it. So and definitely then having already an idea of where to use those points is very, very promising.
00:12:30
Speaker
Because I still have a pile of CD thank you points. And I don't really use them that actively. So I still have to make up my mind. Maybe I'm also going to take that Hello Kitty play. Yeah. So Christoph, I know I mentioned P2 got approved here.
00:12:44
Speaker
um I'm actually interested if you're interested in getting this card, right? like ah What aspects about your city relationship are you thinking about when deciding, yeah, I want to go in on this.
00:12:55
Speaker
No, I think I'm okay. you know Sit this one out. So first of all, I didn't really go in on that card. Neither for P1 or P2. I'm kind of lukewarm on it. and so I mentioned that um I probably want to do this with City Gold. I currently don't have a City Gold membership, so I could potentially maybe open a joint brokerage account, you know move some assets, make sure that I actually have that City Gold, and then apply for both players and you know hope that I get those cards.
00:13:25
Speaker
But just to get the card as is, well, the sign-up bonus, like is nice, but well, you're paying $600 for it. So it's not really that promising.
00:13:36
Speaker
also already have a bunch of CD thank you points, which is good. um Actually, both of my you know main players here have the Strata Premier, so it's a 3x card.
00:13:47
Speaker
They also come with ah an 80k bonus usually, you know like it fluctuates. But essentially, if it's just about the sign-up bonus, that premier card is actually pretty good and for daily spend well it's actually better than the elite and so it's this thing where i ended up debating between hey do i want another card where i have to game some coupons and just make it work like yes if you maximize it you definitely come out ahead and that's not a problem on the other hand well yeah it's it's not really it's it's maybe an incremental improvement like there's nothing that really changes the the whole math of the points game for me
00:14:24
Speaker
I already have you know my Amex Platinum cards and you know you you squeeze all of those benefits out of it. I already have a better priority pass from Bank of America.
00:14:36
Speaker
yeah The 6x on Fridays and Saturdays doesn't really matter for me. like Maybe give me daycare credits right now. This this what kind of stuff might be ah more beneficial.
00:14:47
Speaker
So this is just a long-winded way of saying that I can see myself getting the card if I set myself up and you know make sure that I get all the benefits, including the CD Gold benefits.
00:14:58
Speaker
But just to get the card, yeah i don't think it is worth at all. I'll just wait it out and see if maybe at some point there's a ah setup where it pays better. m Yeah, I like that. I mean, I think it really depends on where you're coming from.
00:15:13
Speaker
In your case, you already have a longstanding city relationship. um You don't really want to rock the boat too much, maybe. I don't know. And also, you know, what what are you really getting into with an additional city card? So things to think about there.
00:15:27
Speaker
um In my case with P2, she has barely a city relationship. So, I mean, there's a lot of like potential value to be unlocked just by simply applying um In the past, I've looked at the City Strata premiere and I was like, it's tempting, but don't know, maybe it's like shiny card syndrome, like ah the elite, right? Like she has to be elites and the the big juicy signup bonus and all of the things to kind of game with on the on the credit side.
00:15:54
Speaker
I think that's what pushed me over over the edge here. I don't know what I'm going to do with this card long term. I don't think it's probably a long term hold card, depending on you know if if it makes sense to keep... If this annual fee stays the same long term, maybe it is.
00:16:10
Speaker
But um I don't know, it seems like a ah lot of work to kind of gain these credits and kind of come up net even. And i don't know, I really hope this like 6x on dining stays around. that That might keep me long term on this card to be able to earn that 6x, but I don't know.
00:16:27
Speaker
Seems like a lot of work here. I think, you know, depending on how many of these I get for P2, and especially like thinking about it, like I know that there's the application rule of like you can get a second approval on a card on day eight.
00:16:42
Speaker
So if you apply on day one, you get approved, you can get another one approved on day eight. and so oh Now this is getting interesting here. Okay. So what are you thinking there? I'm thinking like, okay, yeah, the second card, right? It's going to be incremental value over the first card, right? Like you're getting a lot of duplicative benefits. Priority pass doesn't matter if you have it twice. So I think really it's just for the signup bonus.
00:17:05
Speaker
But year two, right? Like comes around and I've already maxed the credits. Like I think, you know, for sure. I'm not going to have two of these for P2 long term. right like So I'm looking at, you know is it worthwhile to downgrade to a City Strata Premier on that second card?
00:17:21
Speaker
We'll see. Or there's always the option of City Double Cache Custom Cache, I think is the other one. so There's options. I think that's one of the nice things about Citi is like you don't like the card in the second year. You just downgrade to something that has no annual fee. And they're very loose with their product changes, unlike some other issuers. So, ah yeah, I think it's worthwhile to get at least one, if not two, maybe three.
00:17:45
Speaker
ah Who knows, right? Like the the possibilities here are
Citi's New Transfer Options and Implications
00:17:48
Speaker
endless. So, yeah, I think that's ah probably going to be the play in year two is just try to downgrade out of this card and move on to the next thing. right, so it sounds like we'll hear more about the CD Strata Elite in the future.
00:18:00
Speaker
ah Tell me how many of those you end up getting. but Getting more than one seems already extreme, ah but I can see the appeal, of course. When you maximize those grades and you just get that sign-up bonus, yeah, that can definitely work, especially since we're coming up towards the end of the year here.
00:18:15
Speaker
Okay, but one thing that I already mentioned, we should probably dig into a little bit more, is that finally Citi has enabled the transfers to American Airlines. and So that is probably a game changer for many, many people because American Airlines miles used to be somewhat hard to get. right that like Yes, you could spend on the co-brand cards.
00:18:37
Speaker
ah Yes, they sometimes had these gift card on portal deals, but overall... There was no direct way of just spending on cards or hitting essentially sign-up bonuses at scale if it wasn't for the co-branded city cards.
00:18:52
Speaker
And now with enabling those points transfers, that opens up opportunities. Essentially, the floodgates are open. Now we can transfer to AA, and now we can go crazy.
00:19:03
Speaker
Have you taken advantage of this? We haven't taken advantage of it yet. um It's funny, P2's AA account has a zero balance. So I think we need to start getting in on AA again, and we'll see what the possibilities are. I mean, like it's funny, with American...
00:19:20
Speaker
Yes, they have a lot of good sweet spots. They have great redemption prices. And you know One World is one of my favorite you know alliances to kind of redeem partner miles for. So im for sure, we're going to get into this a little bit in you know the next year or so.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah, certainly for me, it was a watershed moment in the sense that, one, I actually have a pile of AA miles from you know gift card and portal deals and sign up bonuses.
00:19:45
Speaker
And Well, so the transfers from Citi are, well, again, incremental value for me. On the other hand, well, now that everybody can just transfer miles by getting Citi thank you points and shifting them over to AA, I'm ah already staring in the face of the next evaluation here.
00:20:05
Speaker
I hope that it lasts and AA has been good to us in terms of maintaining their international partner award chart levels of years and years ago.
00:20:16
Speaker
So maybe I should book some of these Japan Airlines flights or book some flights to Europe that are still open. But yeah, now that there is a flood of thank you points going into the program, I would expect that sometime soonish, some of these award sweet spots might become more expensive.
00:20:37
Speaker
I'm not sure if they're going to gut the program like they did a while ago, but certainly with new points coming in, there is always this risk that, hey, and now we get inflation in that program.
00:20:49
Speaker
and Maybe this is just another ah case of the old cranky man syndrome here on the podcast, but overall... It's good to have if ah you like AA and you don't have AA miles, but if you already have a stash of AA miles, well, maybe this transferability is not the best case for you.
00:21:09
Speaker
But yeah, overall, certainly an improvement for, let's say, the casual gamer, and maybe that's not a bad thing. Yes, for sure. Like, i it's funny that this whole idea of incremental value versus like having zero in your bucket and then having now, you know, 100K points, all of a sudden that opens up a lot of travel possibilities. So it's funny how this works, right? Like it's the same 100K points that you could earn by doing this thing of signing up for the Strata Elite.
00:21:38
Speaker
And it's funny how, you know, our our brains work is like, to you, it's incremental value. Not that much is going to be utilized or gained or realized from that. But for me, I'm like, oh, P2 has zero miles and, you know, 100K could do quite a bit of damage as far as travel and AA hasn't really devalued a lot of their sweet spots recently.
00:22:01
Speaker
ah We should get in on this. So there's a part of me that's like kind of, yeah there's a little bit of sense of urgency on like, I need to do this thing to get the AA miles and... We need to make sure that we book before any possible devaluation because I agree with you, Christoph. like It's been a while since... you know like I think you can still get 60K awards on JAL in business class. That's the cheapest that you that I can find right now, at least.
00:22:26
Speaker
um And that's ah you know that's a common flight that we take. So I don't know. There's a little part of me that's also scared, right? Because now influx of points into American... They're not going to be able to support that. There's going to be way more competition for the same saver availability. And who knows, like we'll end up booking like WebSaver awards on AA just to go domestic. And then I'll be like, oh man, I fell for the trap.
00:22:48
Speaker
American Airlines got me. You know, they they lured me in with the good partner inventory prices and boom, here I am booking WebSaver awards for 5K, which is also not not too bad, but not as inspirational to me.
Emerging Details on Alaska Premium Card
00:23:04
Speaker
So in summary, American Airlines, Citi, thank you. Back on the table. Go in and get your points over and get those awards before they they fly away. Now, speaking of One World here, of course, American Airlines and Citi are not the only One World partners here that are in the news.
00:23:22
Speaker
But also, Bank of America now has leaked Alaska Premium Card. How could it be different? Another new card with a $400 annual fee and a bunch of perks on the airline.
00:23:36
Speaker
What's up with that? Yes. So um as we all know, B of A issues the Alaska credit card product lineup. And so um I think they've been seeing what Chase, Amex have been doing and now Citi. And they're like, no, no, no, we need to follow the market here.
00:23:52
Speaker
And so, you know, For a long time, you know, the Alaska Visa signature, both the personal and the business cards have been, um you know, there have been a lot of fans of this card ah for the last 10 years, if you've been following the hobby.
00:24:05
Speaker
And now it looks like they're getting into the premium credit card market. And it's called the Summit Visa, which um I don't know where they came up. I guess it's part i guess it's part of their logo. I don't know. like ah But it it does kind of match on brand for like Alaska as ah as a state, right? like You got to get on the summit.
00:24:24
Speaker
And with this, they're also, it seems like they're also changing the program name to Atmos Rewards instead of Mileage Plan. Is that right, Christoph? Like, did I totally misread this as like the credit card name? Or I think they're actually changing the rewards program name to Atmos.
00:24:40
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of rumors floating around. that So clearly the merger between Hawaii and Alaska has consequences. right So we're going to get ah new styling. We are probably going to get a new rewards program, which apparently will be known as Atmos. Yeah, most of this information comes from leaks and both, you know,
00:25:04
Speaker
People maybe purposefully sharing it and sometimes um you know just internal documents making it out. What it actually is in the end, we'll see. But by now, we've seen quite a few like leaks and rumors that point in this direction. And apparently, this ah refresh or this addition to the credit card lineup is one of these major steps towards this new program, Atmos.
00:25:29
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and as far as like the leaks, because none of this information truly confirmed yet, right? But it looks like some details really are leaked out.
00:25:40
Speaker
um And so it looks like the card, when it's released, is going to have a 5k bonus points after just opening the account. right You get that. And then 100k bonus points after spending 6,000 or more in purchases within 90 days, right? Standard time frame.
00:25:57
Speaker
And then one of the interesting things we noticed here is like they they have this global 25K companion award. Oh man, like how this cert is going to work is unclear.
00:26:08
Speaker
But what I take from this is, you know, if you book an award using your Alaska miles, you're going to be able to, I guess, get like your companion added on up to, I guess, twenty five k you know, points. So if you booked a 25K award on, i don't know, a partner or even Alaska, you'll get your partner for free. So it's I don't know, like the details are not very clear, but it is something interesting.
00:26:34
Speaker
Christoph, what's your take on this 25K companion award? Yeah, so of course, as you mentioned, ah the devil is in the details here. ah One is that this offer that is kind of leaked here ah seems to be targeted mostly towards employees and essentially insiders um to the the company.
00:26:52
Speaker
So we don't know if this is actually going to be the public thing. And we don't know how exactly these companion certs are going to work, right? So there's actually multiple companion certs. One is at, I think, the sign-up offer. Like for $6,000 spent, you get this $25,000 companion cert.
00:27:09
Speaker
And then at $60,000 spent per year, they will give you $100,000 companion cert. And I mean, we've seen companion certs before, right? For example, like... ah is Air Canada, for example, is famous for having these benefits of tacking on your companions to award flights when you spend you know a lot and you kind of you get very high status.
00:27:30
Speaker
So i would guess that this is similar. But again, the details are unclear. right So I don't know. Are these in new merit search? right It could be possible that ah we actually have to find flights for $25K. I mean, do we have to top them off?
00:27:43
Speaker
Do they expire? Are there different kinds of certs depending on which card they come from? you know So there's like lots and lots of question marks there. ah But it looks like this card overall has some potential appeal and maybe even a little bit of innovation in terms of the perks that it has, right?
00:28:02
Speaker
Yes. So in addition to that 25K companion cert and that also, I think, 100K at 60K spend companion award, ah you get things like you know two lounge passes to Alaska lounges, two Wi-Fi passes per each calendar quarter, ah check bags, obviously, you know pretty standard stuff like global entry credits.
00:28:22
Speaker
One of the funny things here is like, You'll get a $50 voucher if Alaska cancels a flight or if the departure is delayed by two hours. Like, this is a benefit that I haven't seen before. It seems like it seems like a funny benefit to put in there.
00:28:42
Speaker
I mean, yeah, it makes sense and in in practice, but it's a funny, I don't know, from a marketing standpoint. It's like, yeah, we're going to give you $50 anytime your your flight is delayed. Like, how often are things being delayed where...
00:28:55
Speaker
We're just like, okay, we're tired of answering everybody's ah you know complaint emails. We're just going to give you 50 bucks as a credit card benefit anytime this happens. It's a funny one to me. um Christophe, any thoughts on that one?
00:29:07
Speaker
Yeah, of course, I had the same reaction. i found it very funny too. It's like, oh, are we planning to delay flights from now on? And you know we we just just want to make sure that people don't pester us because they get $50. In the end, though, I mean, there's some additional benefits.
Alaska Card's Unique Perks and Strategy
00:29:22
Speaker
But if you look at the cart package overall, it's really designed to deepen the relationship.
00:29:30
Speaker
It's not just, oh, yeah, you know here's your cart. And then you get your i don't know your free bag. and Maybe that's say it. ah But instead, they try to make your overall experience with this award program better. And one is to say, well, for example, when you get delays, there's some guaranteed benefits.
00:29:51
Speaker
There's three same-day changes, although it doesn't really matter if you're like a higher tier elite. They give you Launch passes, right? So they essentially went the route, which is, in my opinion, smart to tell people, hey, you get two launch passes per quarter.
00:30:05
Speaker
It's not like a full launch membership. I mean, it's not like Alaska really has a full network here. um But it's, you know, something where they say, hey, we can give you some of the perks of essentially a deepened relationship without setting ourselves up for disaster, right? For example, remember...
00:30:27
Speaker
like AA having that famous city ah card with AA launch membership and then authorized users would get free memberships. And in the end, of course, everybody who got that card had like 10 authorized users on it to really yeah maximize the benefit, right?
00:30:42
Speaker
And then, of course, that card becomes unsustainable because suddenly you essentially hand out like 10 full memberships for one annual fee. but That doesn't fly. And clearly, Bank of America or like Alaska are just the people that designed this card.
00:30:57
Speaker
They've learned the lesson, right and they said, OK, we're not going to hand out like a full membership here. We're going to give you those launch passes. But you know if you travel on Alaska occasionally, this works pretty well. right So like once per quarter, sure. i mean you'll You'll get some use out of these launch passes. And on the other hand, the gameability of this, essentially the downside for the airline, is also limited.
00:31:22
Speaker
And so that's why it's actually interesting to look at the currency. Like clearly somebody thought about this. It's not just another ah carbon copy a card. Yeah, I do like the thought, and I think this is maybe a shift with card benefits of like, instead of just giving card members unlimited use of certain benefits that, you know, okay, gamers are going to game that.
00:31:45
Speaker
I think like giving, you know, here's your allotment, right? Like per quarter, per year, ah you get this much. And so I think that's a more of a sustainable approach to offering a benefit. ah Maybe like two lounge passes is maybe too small, right? Like if you're a frequent flyer with Alaska, you're going to be flying a ton.
00:32:03
Speaker
You're going to want to go to the lounge every single time. And maybe you're a business traveler, you're going a couple of times a week. So maybe that's a a downside. Maybe, you know, some changes could be made there. But yeah, I think like as far as, you know, gamers going game, setting a cap is is probably a more sustainable shift as far as benefits are concerned.
00:32:22
Speaker
You know, one of the other benefits that, ah at least for me, is it's funny because when you think about it's like, oh I'm going to value this benefit. But really, at the end of the day, it's like a small monetary benefit. But um they're actually eliminating the partner award fee, ah you know, that $12.50 booking fee when you book a partner award using Alaska Miles. Like they're eliminating that charge if you have this card.
00:32:46
Speaker
And so that really kind of trends towards, okay, I already do this, but like I book a lot of you know speculative bookings with my Alaska miles and I'm just going to start doing that even more. Right. Like at the end of the day, it's only saving me like twenty five dollars pretty much for a P1, P2 situation.
00:33:04
Speaker
Maybe P3 is going to factor into this. But yeah, like twenty five to thirty seven fifty. i That's how much I'm saving every time i have to book something speculatively and then later on cancel it because I'm not actually using it.
00:33:18
Speaker
To me, that's ah I'm valuing that benefit just because I hated that fee, but it was also never truly a big amount of money ah for the you know the opportunity to book something speculatively and have it canceled later.
00:33:31
Speaker
Christoph, I know that you do a lot of speculative bookings with Alaska. like Are you happy about this? like Obviously, you're happy, but like are we overvaluing this or am I overvaluing this? Yeah, I mean, I wonder if I should put a a TPG, a warning label on this, but I value this benefit at least $200 per year because I keep canceling my Alaska award flights all the time.
00:33:52
Speaker
So definitely makes a difference for me, but maybe not for the casual traveler. But yeah, it's like I saw this and I figured like, oh, oh yeah the light bulbs went off. That that that is interesting to me. So ah yeah, um I saw it and I like it.
00:34:08
Speaker
Isn't that funny how ah you know a small little benefit like that, all of a sudden it's because you use it all the time. You're like, oh, you're rubbing your hands together like, ooh, can't wait. It's funny how that works, right? like it's It's definitely benefit values are determined by your use of the benefit. And it's just a really good example of how a small little benefit on a credit card can almost sway you to just be like, oh, I need that card.
00:34:33
Speaker
One of the other benefits that I'm noticing on the the card details is 3x on dining. And, you know, that is pretty nice for me because I do quite a bit of dining spend and 3x. In addition, like 3x plus there's this like 10% points bonus with an eligible Bank of America account. And at least for me on with my B of A relationship, I have the B of A.
00:34:54
Speaker
um I have the B of A Alaska business card and whenever my points post on that card, I am noticing you know an additional 10% kicker. So really like 3.3x on dining, oh like Alaska miles, o it's so juicy. like Another one of those benefits that I'm like, ooh I got to get my hands on this card. right like so That's one interesting benefit. i just wanted to point that out. um You also can spend your way towards status on this card, right?
00:35:21
Speaker
I know that the B of A Alaska cards recently, like they they allowed you to spend towards MVP status. um I think it was like either 20 or I forget how you had to earn like 20,000 elite qualifying miles and...
00:35:37
Speaker
For me, that was not too much of a problem. Like I have MVP status, but I was like kind of hungry for more ways to earn a higher tier of status. And it looks like this card is potentially going to be, it's potentially going to enable ah way for you to spend at least towards like MVP gold. Like Christopher, do you see yourself getting this card and maybe spending towards Alaska status? Like, what do you think about this?
00:36:01
Speaker
Yes, actually, ah there's an interesting debate that I have going on internally in my head, which is, well, so far I've spent towards status with AA, right? Therefore, all of those AA miles.
00:36:14
Speaker
Now, with that card here, um I might actually shift over to Alaska. i'm I'm not completely done here with the math, but fundamentally, my thought is the following.
00:36:26
Speaker
With American Airlines, the miles are valuable, but there's somewhat of a limited selection of partners compared to Alaska. Now, Alaska has a few partners that are not even one world. So even, say, Singapore Airlines, for example, you can sometimes get flights with Alaska.
00:36:45
Speaker
That, of course, makes those Alaska miles more valuable. So now if you're doing the ongoing spend, the amount of spend for top tier AA status and top tier Alaska status is about the same and you get about the same one world benefits.
00:37:01
Speaker
And also American Airlines and Alaska have reciprocal benefits for their elites. right So, for example, I recently used my American Airlines status to get just slightly upgraded seats on Alaska flights.
00:37:15
Speaker
And so that works the other way around as well. Now, if I'm spending my way to status anyways, well, I'd much rather spend my way to status with a 3x category than with a 2x category, right? Because all the AA cards, which are now with Citi, or I mean, technically Barclays, but, you know, they soon kind of all move to Citi.
00:37:35
Speaker
Any categories that you can get, which is, you know, gas and dining and these kind of things, well, they're all two x With the Alaska cart, you get 3X, or actually three point three x right? And so they have that benefit on dining, but they also have actually another 3X category, which is Maybe not super obvious, but it goes on foreign purchases. So technically, every time you travel abroad and also every time you pay for a hotel abroad, that should work. It's not clear again, like how this benefit works.
00:38:06
Speaker
But fundamentally, if you can get, you know, 3.3x plus then, you know, status on Alaska, that might actually be more rewarding than spending your way with American Airlines.
00:38:19
Speaker
There are some other considerations here, right? You're saying like, hey, ah you know do like how does your city relationship look like versus your BFA relationship? I mean, do you already have everything with Bank of America?
00:38:30
Speaker
Might as well use that card, right? But despite these details, you know we still have to wait to to see exactly what the details are of this card. But I've been debating actually spending my way to status with Alaska rather than American Airlines going forward.
00:38:45
Speaker
But yeah, we still wait. Yes, I think my only option here is to spend my way to status with Alaska. ah Man, like I put ah quite a bit of spend on my B of A Alaska cards because I love Alaska miles. They're super useful to for me.
00:39:01
Speaker
But one of the things that I'm missing right now is, you know, kind of being capped. on my spend on my existing Visa signature card um at MVP. And yeah, I've been looking at like, okay like what do I need to do as far as flying? Because I can't really earn it via credit card spend to get to MVP gold. Like, is there something that I can slot in this year to get my way up there? And now with this card,
00:39:23
Speaker
I think the answer is pretty evident. Like I'm just going to spend my way assuming, you know, I can either get approved for this card or if I can't get approved, I'm probably i'm i'm very likely to just upgrade my existing ah personal Alaska Visa signature. And, you know, I think the benefits, ah even without a signup bonus, at least in my case, it makes sense to go ahead and try to get that card. But I think like depending on where you end up,
00:39:47
Speaker
As far as spending your way to status, like I think ah this is going to probably be my next little you know white whale that I'm going to chase is ah Alaska status through credit card spend. And so that, to me, is pretty exciting.
00:40:00
Speaker
And I've never had high-tier one-world status, so unlike you, Christoph, I don't It's something that I don't have that I i'm so just i want it, right? Like it's it's that little, you know, the golden goose like egg that I want to chase after.
00:40:15
Speaker
And probably once I get it, I'll probably give you like, oh, big deal. Like I have it. What's the next thing that I want to chase after? So a lot of things that I'm thinking about, and i'm pretty excited to actually see when this card application goes live because, you know, yeah, we talked about all of the the details on the signup bonus and the benefits and the spend categories, but it's going to be interesting to see if a lot of these things actually match up and how much of it was actually correct from those leaks.
Devaluation of US Bank Altitude Reserve
00:40:42
Speaker
So I think that wraps it up for the Alaska card. I think we're just, ah you know, on pins and needles on what's going to come next and more to come on this.
00:40:51
Speaker
So, Kristof, there was some news about the US Bank Altitude Reserve. No! I know you have this card. yeah No! Oh no!
00:41:03
Speaker
Kristof, you want to get into the details on this confirmed US Bank Altitude Reserve nerfing? Yeah, well, US Bank really hit us with a double-vammy there, right? First, and we had the devaluation of the US Bank Smartly card. And now the thing that everybody feared also seems to be true in terms of rumors that are now virtually confirmed, ah which is that the US Bank Altitude Reserve card is going to lose its amazing combination of 3x uncapped mobile wallet spent with 1.5x cash out, which effectively makes the card
00:41:42
Speaker
like 4.5% cashback cart everywhere where mobile wallets are taken. Man, it's it's the end of an era. It it really is. so yeah Like this cart, I know, you know, Euroment had an amazing ah long-term relationship with this cart.
00:41:57
Speaker
um So do I. And now it's coming to an end. Essentially, the card being now modified to say, hey, we still have 3x, but it's now capped, I think, on up to 5k per month.
00:42:11
Speaker
It's still fine. ah But I think what really made this card shine besides this 4.5x cashback, which all by itself is already amazing,
00:42:23
Speaker
was that the card, despite having a $400 annual fee, also came with a very easy to use, essentially self-using um annual credit of $325 for ah travel and dining spend.
00:42:38
Speaker
And so that change happened during COVID, meaning, ah yes, you have a card. It's a premium card. It gives you you know priority pass and 5% cashback and very good travel insurance and overall just a very nice package.
00:42:52
Speaker
And effectively, cart costs $75 in annual fees. It's very hard to beat this. And so now that benefit too is being changed again so that it only applies to travel booked through their portal, meaning it's now going to be much harder to essentially offset that $400 fee.
00:43:12
Speaker
And then lastly, while of course they try to soften the blow by saying, hey, we'll have transfer partners, essentially none of the good changes have any details to them.
00:43:23
Speaker
Meaning, yes, we we get the promise of doing you know three x on on mobile, even if it's now capped on a monthly basis. And yes, yes, we'll get transfer partners, but we don't know what the transfer partners are.
00:43:35
Speaker
So if it's ah a somewhat lackluster collection, like say Wells Fargo, again, we're talking about incremental value here instead of you know a real game changer that the old US bar certainly was.
00:43:48
Speaker
And now ah towards the end of the year, I think sometime in December, they will change this card over. Although we're still waiting for the... a complete like official confirmation. But it sounds like the rumors are very solid because virtually all the rumors that came out of US Bank recently were confirmed later on.
00:44:08
Speaker
Yeah, i when this card came out in 2017, I actually had a you know pretty good run with this card. And you know i was oh sad not to have it anymore. And yeah, I mean, like when you think about it, you know if a card is offering 4.5% essentially cash back,
00:44:24
Speaker
essentially cash back uncapped and really that's where the value was in this card to me at least was uncapped four and a half percent so if you found easy methods of spending at whatever on a mobile wallet you know it it was so good for a long time and um I'm sad to see it go, but I also kind of knew just in the back of my head, like at some point they're not going to be able to, you know, offer this, right? Like a $400 annual fee minus $325 with an easy credit to use up. I mean, you're talking about $75 net.
00:44:58
Speaker
And oftentimes with the retention offers on this card, they would give you more than $75, like a five k retention offer would back and they would give it to me. I think like you know two out of three years, you know like a 66% hit rate on those retention calls.
00:45:12
Speaker
And sometimes the retention offer would be 10,000 points, so $150. So they're paying me to keep the card. it was ah It was an interesting time with US Bank. And then you know one of the nice benefits, and I don't think this is going away, but they they are one of the few remaining candidates for using priority pass at restaurants.
00:45:31
Speaker
And I think for a long time, it was like you get four for you, like four restaurants or any priority pass visit, but including restaurants, four for you. And then I think you had to have a guest at one point to get the other four. So you got eight total.
00:45:45
Speaker
And I think they changed that to just having, we'll give you eight, doesn't matter how many guests you have, just eight uses of this benefit. And you know going back upstream to like, putting a cap on how many times you can use a benefit i thought that was pretty you know a pretty good foresight on us s bank's thought process there but yeah i think that benefit still exists and uh you know 75 for eight visits you know it's cheap right like uh so yeah yeah this card was just really just a honeypot for a long time and uh it's sad to see that they're finally shutting down shop here as far as like the you know the uncapped story
00:46:20
Speaker
Still, with the with the the loyalty programs that are going to be added, you know I'm also just interested in you know seeing what loyalty programs they they do add to the card.
00:46:32
Speaker
But I think, Christoph, we have to pour one out for the U.S. s Bank Altitude Reserve. It was such a faithful faithful servant for a long term it was it was it's the end of an era here and uh it's uh it's one of the the great ones and yes as all good things eventually they come to an end but yeah for sure it's been a good run and so us bank wasn't done with nerfing the us bank altitude reserve card they also nerfed your Your short-lived Smartly relationship here, Christoph.
00:47:06
Speaker
are you are you how How sad are you about this one? Yeah, so to be honest, the Smartly card, that's like a Forex everywhere card, right? Assuming that you also have a relationship with the bank.
00:47:18
Speaker
Now, that was probably in contrast to the US bar, which was probably the longest lived, most rewarding card. The US bank Smartly rewards card was the shortest lived, most rewarding card.
00:47:29
Speaker
In the sense that the card came out and over the course of what six months, ah they essentially nerfed the card down to being essentially completely useless. um Meaning that originally the card would offer 4x cashback if you had, i think, 100k in assets with you know US Bank.
00:47:49
Speaker
And then eventually they changed the card, at least for new applicants, to say, oh, no, no, no, we'll only give you those 4% if you have a hundred k Not even in your savings account, but in your checking account. Meaning the card is completely useless.
00:48:02
Speaker
It's also capped. right It used to be uncapped for X, which is, of course, going to be abused for like tax payments and you know use cases even in for business purposes.
00:48:13
Speaker
And so now it's capped at $10K per monthly spending. And for new accounts, only checking account balances count, which, of course, is horrible. Essentially, they could just like gotten rid of the card. The card is no longer what it used to be.
00:48:28
Speaker
Now, the more interesting question, and that's kind of the thing that has been going on here, is about what happened to the grandfathered cards. Essentially, everybody who signed up before they nerfed the card for new signups was essentially gambling on them not nerving this grandfathered card, at least not as badly as kind of like the V2 of the smartly that is now available for Sina.
00:48:53
Speaker
And in a way that gamble worked out for some of us in the sense that the card did get nerfed, again saying like, oh yeah, he has like caps on like 10k for X categories per month.
00:49:08
Speaker
There is additional exclusions in terms of saying, hey, taxes and insurance and you know education expenses and even like business expenses and funding transactions and like a whole slew of like different MCCs was now excluded.
00:49:22
Speaker
But fundamentally, the cards still support this 4X back if you have 100K in investment accounts. right So at least you don't need to dump the 100K in a checking account where it earns nothing.
00:49:34
Speaker
At least you just transfer over some assets that you may already have. And whether you have your i don't know your v o sitting at Fidelity or at the US Bank or at Schwab or someone else doesn't really matter. So you might as well move that over to US Bank and then enjoy the 4X categories on you know up to per month.
00:49:57
Speaker
And that's what happened to most people. Essentially, US banks started sending out letters. Some people got nerfed very badly in the sense that their card got downgraded to the Smartly V2 card, which made it completely useless.
00:50:10
Speaker
Some other people, fortunately, like me and P2, we got the nice nerf. And I hope it stays at that level for a while where we're saying, like, hey, If you still have 100k with us, not in a checking account but also you know in in an investment account, we'll still give you those 4x up to ten k per month.
00:50:29
Speaker
And that still makes it a nice everywhere else card. Maybe kind of a weak replacement for the US bar. Of course 4.5x everywhere without any exclusions as long as this mobile wallet is a little bit better.
00:50:44
Speaker
But 4x everywhere can still be decent up to 20k. But yes, I think it comes back to the original ah scheme here saying anything that is uncapped is eventually going to get gamed really hard and becomes completely unprofitable.
Credit Card Market Trends and Future Outlook
00:50:58
Speaker
And so... Now that US Bank has added these caps and category exclusions, let's hope the card stays that way for a long time. And if it does, then, hey, this might be a small compensation for losing the US bar, because at least you still can get those 4x everywhere.
00:51:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think this still to me is a good set it and forget it card with with a P2 plus situation. So I think if if I was in your position, I think that's what I would do unless there was something so juicy that a P2 could be spending on that it would actually replace and become maybe like a joint credit card profile. So Yeah, it is sad to see that the Smartly card has been nerfed so badly. um But at the same time, it's like you have to see this coming. I think US Bank started to really focus on, you hey, we're kind of getting gamed over here. like People are earning this 4% and we didn't anticipate this much volume, especially you know on two uncapped products at release, right? Like the 4.5% on the Altitude Reserve and the Smartly, they they had to institute some caps.
00:52:09
Speaker
And isn't that isn't that funny how like almost everything in terms of credit card benefits seem to be moving in this direction, right? Credit cards in general seem to be, you know the market is shifting towards more premium cards with nice benefits, but then there's like these caps and they're trying to like you know plug the leaks that you know they they may have added when they first introduced the card. And I think it seems to be where the market is going with a lot of these benefits. so Yeah, certainly you can see the credit card issue as really focusing on profitability, right?
00:52:43
Speaker
I mean, Amex pioneered this whole coupon book movement, if you will, where, hey, yeah you know, you get these semi-annual and quarterly and monthly and Well, now we'd see the hourly credits in a way.
00:52:57
Speaker
So yeah, you can you can see that breakage is the name of the game, right? We'll charge you higher and higher fees. ah Most of the cards become less and less rewarding, even for spend, right? Where you say, hey, yeah you know, here's an ultra premium card.
00:53:11
Speaker
And maybe we give you 3x on a very specific kind of travel. But, you know, these broad categories with bonuses, right? They are gone. and The ultra premium cards are all moving towards like $1,000 in annual fees.
00:53:26
Speaker
Yes, we have a lot of credits. um you know If you're maximizing the benefits like we do, then yes, you can get a lot of value out of there. But if you're not really trying to squeeze every last cent out of it, then yeah these cards are not that beneficial.
00:53:43
Speaker
it it's actually There might be mid-tier cards that are better for spending categories and bonuses than these top-end cards. And that's just the name of the game, I think.
00:53:56
Speaker
We'll see more of this where just the banks have decided, hey, if we offer coupon books and we charge high annual fees, in the end, it's increased profitability. And so until something fundamentally changes, this is how it's going to go.
00:54:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So to wrap things up here, I mean, it looks like for B of A and Citi, lots of positive news. Citi Strata Elite looking like a promising ah contender for P2's spend. And for B of A, that new Summit Visa Infinite, i mean, that to me is looking like a potential contender for my wallet spend.
00:54:31
Speaker
So lots of good news there. US Bank, not so much. ah Looks like they're trying to plug some leaks there. And yeah, it just seems like the game these days is ah is changing a lot.
Episode Summary and Reflections
00:54:42
Speaker
You know, a lot of my travel in the last year has been funded by mostly credit card coupons and certs that expire. And so I'm forced to use them. So yeah, it's just the nature of the game. And we need to make sure that we're adapting in order to play this game to extract maximum value.
00:54:57
Speaker
Any other thoughts, Christoph? Yes, I still cry for the US Bank Altitude Reserve. But then again, who knows? Maybe if we are moving on to Bank of America here.
00:55:10
Speaker
Yes, maybe we'll be moving on to bigger and better things. All right. I think that wraps things up. I think it's a show. Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of The Points Project with your hosts, Christoph and Raymond.
00:55:22
Speaker
Have a good one, everybody. See you next time. Hey there, Points Project listeners. If you enjoyed today's episode, we also have a Patreon feed where we expand upon many of the topics we discuss on this show.
00:55:33
Speaker
If you'd like access to the enthusiast member-only content and Slack group, please consider subscribing to our Patreon.