Transcript
Speaker: Q4 is here, news and updates and optimizing spend in this episode of the Points Project.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to The Points Project with your hosts Christoph and Raymond. Hey Raymond, how have you been? It's been a while. We are falling into Q4 and it's not just us, but it's also Jal falling in the lap of Capital One.
Speaker: What's going on over there? Yeah, Capital One has added Japan Airlines Mileage Bank as a transfer partner. ah This actually was part of a Q3 change, but we're we're covering it in Q4. So, all right, let's do it.
Speaker: So yeah, JAL is actually a transfer at a one Capital One mile to 0.75 Japan Airlines miles ratio. So that's the standard. But when they added Japan Airlines into their transfer program,
Speaker: They actually went straight ahead and said, hey, we're going to offer a 30% bonus transfer. And so this is actually looking like 1 to 0.975 miles, so 975 JAL miles per 1,000 Capital One.
Speaker: And um yeah, I think this is actually a great way to gin up your your Japan Airlines mileage bank balances. Right, Christoph? Yeah, I mean, I guess the more interesting question is, Japan Airlines, especially the award program, is more of an oddball, right? So you don't actually see this that much.
Speaker: If I go back and I try to think back when JAL was lost, like in this points-at-Miles game, I tend to come up with, I don't know, maybe there's a JAL card from FMBO now?
Speaker: And then like Barclays had it as a transfer partner? But you know why... Why do we even care about this? Because I am actually pretty excited about that. Yeah. So, I mean, Capital One transferring to JAL. If you have a lot of Capital One, like all of a sudden you have really easy opportunity to just throw them into JAL and then book, I guess, JAL, well, JAL Medal Awards, or I guess you could book, you know, other One World Partner Awards. But really, I think the real reason that somebody would want to transfer their miles into JAL is because they offer way better availability on their own medal.
Speaker: for award flights and our ne christoph am i wrong here like i've spent countless hours late at night looking for japan airlines awards to get to japan and yeah i'm using my atmos rewards points i'm using american airlines miles i'm using what else am i using here asia miles right like british airways obvious like yeah you can book japan airlines awards using those programs but man Is it tough to find those awards? And so I think this is really the key here is if you're sick and tired of finding those saver awards and you're willing to pay what looks to be either similar to saver award pricing or also okay with Japan Airlines dynamic pricing, then this might be for you.
Speaker: What do you think about that, Christoph? Mm-hmm. Yeah, actually, I was looking to book a trip to Asia and will stop over in Japan sometime in November. And ah of course, you know, just as you said, I was looking hey for Saver Awards.
Speaker: And, you know, even i'm using Seeds Arrow and, you points here and all of these tools to have my alerts set up. Right now, it's really dire. there's There's just not much availability.
Speaker: like At some point, i saw first class popping up, but you know the moment I saw the alert, of course, the availability was already gone. And since then, there's literally nothing for the dates that I'm looking for.
Speaker: And, you know, as soon as I saw the news, hey, JAL availability, ah potentially better for their own, ah you know, award members. Yeah, well, clicked through the JAL award booking calculator and then, you know, their calendar and the availability is plentiful. And, you know, it's it's not just like, hey, a seat here or there, but it's more like, hey, there's two flights for, you know, this day and you can get three seats on that flight or, you know, on...
Speaker: essentially indeterminate number of flights on that other plane. So literally, you don't just get to choose, hey, I want to fly on the date that I'm looking for, but you even get to choose the time of day.
Speaker: So that's pretty darn good. Yeah. Yes. But sometimes the pricing is different, but overall, actually not too far off from the SAVE Awards. Yes, that's that's that's the same experience I've had so far, too. um I've detailed this on our Patreon show, but um I did get that FNBO.
Speaker: Japan Airlines USA credit card. I just got it about a month ago. And that had me going into the Japan Airlines Mileage Bank site and like performing award searches. And I was like, man, this is a blast from the past. Like this reminds me of some of the stuff I was doing back in like 2019.
Speaker: And um what I've found is 70K awards seem to be, I guess, their base or saver fare for their own. like For example, I'm looking at SFO to Tokyo. 70K. And then you have you have some YQ in there. So it's about $200 in like fuel surcharges and taxes. Okay, big deal.
Speaker: And I've seen some of the dates like dynamically priced going up to 100K. there's a hundred k There seems to be a hundred thirty k And even, like i guess, peak dates. There's still seats available, but like even up to like 180, 190.
Speaker: So, I mean, you could pick your poison there, but like if you wanted to have the flexibility of a specific date, um if the whole trip is contingent upon getting home, like, you know, I could see myself paying a little bit extra for, you know, ah a prime date just to get home, right? If that's the make or break it on the trip, I could see myself paying, you know, 100K, maybe not 190, but like 100K would seem okay with me as long as I can get home.
Speaker: Christoph, yeah, I mean, um am I way off base here? Like, do you think that is 130K too much for business? Yeah, so I totally agree with your sentiment here.
Speaker: I personally, but of course, if I have the option to book, say, a JalSaver Award with AA Miles, right? 60K from the West Coast. I mean, essentially no surcharges, free cancellation, ah no problems with like the the points expiration anything.
Speaker: Of course, I'm going to take the 60K from AA. They're also much easier to get now that Citi has the transfer availability. But, well, as you point out, sometimes you just have to make the dates work.
Speaker: And the problem being you know dependent on save rewards is that Usually, you know if there's no availability, like for my trip in November now, well, it's very tough to make that whole trip happen because you just can't come back around the right time.
Speaker: And so if I can then go and say, you know book a 100K award or something like this with Jal and I can make it back, That's actually really good, right? So the difference between having no availability or cheap flights and having lots of availability and maybe paying a little bit more actually can make quite a difference.
Speaker: Because even if you pay a little bit more for, say, the return flight on JAL, well, you know, If this means you can make the trip happen in the first place and maybe also save some points on the flight that gets you to the destination, then you still get a very good average value.
Speaker: And hey, you get a trip versus, you know, maybe you're sitting in coach or you have to let whole thing go in the first place. Yeah, I see. So I think I would still, i think like you were suggesting, Christoph, like book the partner awards first, right? Like that usually, that's usually how things kind of happen with me and P2 and P3 when we plan trips is like, oh, there's a great deal on something to get either...
Speaker: you know over the Atlantic Ocean, over the Pacific Ocean. And then you know the the problem that I'm having now is like getting back home. And I'm finding more and more often that booking through, especially like Asia, booking through some of these Asian award programs, they seem to have better availability. You're just going to pay a little bit more for it. So for me and you know my travel strategy, I think I'm probably going to focus a lot more on just collecting these miles. I mean, for sure I mentioned upstream the FNBO card.
Speaker: I do have that. I am spending on that. I don't have any Capital One accounts. And ah what else is there? There's also Marriott Bonvoy, which you know ah you can transfer to JAL.
Speaker: But I like my Marriott points, so I don't know. i I'd rather just spend on the JAL card as cheaply as possible and just earn, yeah, it's a slog at 1x point per dollar, but I'll do it that way.
Speaker: And then now with Capital One, you know, the thing I'm worried about here is like, okay, now I'm competing with other people like me. Isn't that fun how we always shoot ourselves in the foot, Christoph? Yeah, well, more more access means more competition, means less availability, right?
Speaker: I think that's at the heart of the game. But I guess I expressed the same concern with AA now being an official transfer partner of Citi Thank You Points. And so I expect that maybe here too we'll see a little bit of a devaluation coming downstream.
Speaker: But yeah, for JAL, I'd say the thing that the program has going for it, that it's still a little bit obscure. Yes, there's definitely more people that have Capital One cards than FMBO cards.
Speaker: Although, I mean, Amtrak is actually not a bad option either. But it doesn't get you over the Pacific, right? um But yeah, on the other hand, the website is pretty clunky to use. It's also not well integrated into the big award search engines. right So Seeds.Aero, for example, doesn't search JAL directly.
Speaker: ah So that certainly gives us a little bit of lead time ah to take advantage of this. But of course, yeah, over the long run, all the integration of JAL into that program means that probably the award availability will get worse.
Speaker: But, you know, we have some time. And so this is a classic case of, hey, yeah you know, the game is always changing. So here we are. Well, but Raymond, before we dive headlong into the program and transfer all of our Capital One points at once, take advantage of this promo.
Speaker: ah Maybe let's talk about the caveats as well, because there's a few things to keep in mind with using the JAL Award program. All right, so before you go out and transfer those miles, I think we have to think about a couple things here. And, um you know, probably these are things you could do now to prepare yourself for when you actually want to go and make these transfers. So the first thing is, if you're brand new to the program, there's actually this, and it's kind of crazy, like a 60-day waiting period before you can make any award redemptions on your account, which, Kristoff, that sounds crazy to me, like 60 days, so like...
Speaker: Everybody should go out and create their account right now, right? Like create an account for yourself, P2, whoever is going to get these ah these miles, right? like Because I would hate, you know, oh, I'm going to transfer miles. And then, oh, Christoph and Raymond were talking about how great the award availability is. And we want to go next month. And then, boom, like you're kind of stuck here. So do that first.
Speaker: So that's the first immediate thing. The second thing is, unlike Asia Miles, unlike ah British Airways, so Asia Miles has a 360-day award calendar going into the future, right? So you can book a Japan Airlines award, which is pretty funny.
Speaker: You can book that out 360 days from today. But Japan Airlines, through their own program, only releases 330 days out. And so isn't that crazy? You can book through Asia Miles. You can book through British Airways Avios, which they go out 355 days.
Speaker: And even Finnair, I'm just going to throw this out there, but they also have a 360-day window. So I mean, like, there's other programs that have access to Japan Airlines seats, but then Japan Airlines is like, no, you got to wait till 11 months out, which...
Speaker: That's funny to me, but yeah, it's something to consider, right? Because then you have people ah probably snatching up those awards you know right at calendar open and that becomes problematic, right? So things to think about there.
Speaker: Christoph, you have any other caveats that I'm not thinking of here? Yeah, maybe something that plays into, especially the six-day hold and then also the calendar expectations is that there is a hard expiry on Jal Miles.
Speaker: So similar to say ANA for example, there is no way to extend the life of your miles if you want. So if you transfer today, then guess what? Today in three years it expires.
Speaker: No way to extend it, no way to transfer some more, they're just gone. Actually i personally had a few ANA miles expire just now in September. Fortunately the only a few leftovers but the yeah that can be painful especially if For whatever reason, say a trip falls through, you have to cancel and then, well, you just get another opportunity. Well, you're still stuck with these miles and if you don't use them, you lose them.
Speaker: ah Yeah, especially this can be ah troublesome if you transfer right away and then run into the 60-day block there. So definitely something to be aware of.
Speaker: Really only you make the transfer when you're pretty certain you'll take the trip. So for example, if I want to take the trip in November, I'm pretty sure I'm going to take it. And guess what? Yes, I'll take advantage of that promo and do the transfer.
Speaker: But I'm not sure I would do this speculatively for making a booking at some point in the future. Yeah, that's for sure. If you're planning on transferring your JAL miles, well, number one, make sure that your account's old enough so you can make award redemptions and that, you you know, like Christoph just mentioned, you have an immediate use of those miles. You don't want to end up...
Speaker: with six months left to go in your three-year period and you're like, I need to go to Japan. i mean, for me, that sounds like a good problem to have, but not for everybody. So Christoph, why don't we move into the Amex Delta cards? Because across the board, between the personal and the business lineup, they have elevated offers over here.
Speaker: um These offers are due to expire on October 29th this year, so you've got about three weeks to make a decision, and why don't we get into the offers? So, on the personal side, across the board here, the gold, the platinum, and the reserve, the gold is up $80k after three k in spend, and you get six months of runway on that min-spend.
Speaker: This one has that nice annual fee waived on the first year, but then it goes up $250. The Platinum, that one, just slightly more miles, but a significantly higher annual fee. I think the benefits, the Platinum is probably ah more of a benefit card here, but $90k after $4k in spend, and you get six months there.
Speaker: And then the Reserve, that one has a $125k bonus, $6k min spend, and yeah, again, six months with $650 annual fee. On the business side, right same three tiers of cards.
Speaker: The business gold has the $90k offer, six case spend, has that first year annual fee waived. Platinum, $100k for $8k spend, $350 annual fee. And then the reserve, $125k, $15k spend, and $650 annual fee.
Speaker: Christoph, are you at all going to get... I mean, because I know you still have Amex. Are you going in on these Delta cards? like For me, I like the business gold, but... I want to hear you first. Yeah, actually, the business goal is a good point here.
Speaker: um I mean, generally, I think of the Delta cards of a little bit of a ah split value proposition depending on where you're at. If you're actually flying Delta, it can actually make sense to pick up some of the higher level cards, right like the Platinum and the Reserve, because they give you these boosts to your elite status earning.
Speaker: And essentially, just with the cards, you can get pretty close to a decent status already. Now, for me, you know I'm on the West Coast, so Delta is an option to go to the East Coast. And you know there's a couple of connections with hubs there.
Speaker: But overall, like getting Delta status, yeah, I had it once for a few years, you know like with the covid but a COVID pandemic in the middle. But it was not really worth it for me.
Speaker: Yet sometimes i still end up taking Delta flights. And so I actually started going for business goals. So the interesting there is, of course, no annual fee, right? So it's effectively free-ish at least.
Speaker: And um sometimes because they are targeted offers, ah they will just give you multiple of those, right? So like, even though you have a business gold card from Delta,
Speaker: um So what? You might be able to get a second one. And then you know your P2 or P3 or whoever might be able to pick up a few. And so for us, this has actually worked out pretty well. but You sign up. The business goal gives you, well, now it's like 90,000 points.
Speaker: that I know Delta has pretty expensive domestic pricing, but it's okay. like Sometimes ah Delta has paid for and with these trips that we couldn't take with Southwest and our companion pass.
Speaker: And guess what? Then there's also this addition of this $150 hotel or like Delta ah stays ah credit that will definitely be useful once or even twice, right ah depending on like how you how you time things.
Speaker: And yeah, so like sometimes a small weekend trip or something is is totally in there. And so, yeah, I use it to kind of swipe the card on all this kind of unbonus spend. If say if you have some insurance bill due or some property taxes or something, you know, just get the card, knock out 6K sometimes in one go, the mouse show up in your account, maybe use the Delta States credit and you're done. You're moving on to the next card. It's just something to throw in in between.
Speaker: So that's kind of how I've been using these cards. Yeah, i I used to have the Delta Business Gold. And I think of all of the offers here, I think that's the best bang for your buck. Maybe not in terms of min-spend requirement, but if spending is less of an issue, especially at the $6,000 level, um I think it's the best bang for your buck, right? like Because there's no annual fee in the first year, at least.
Speaker: ah You get two Delta stays credit, right? And then you get the $90,000 bonus versus the personal gold with the $80,000 bonus. um Yeah, it's more double the spend. But yeah, for me, the spend doesn't seem to be the issue here.
Speaker: And like you, Christoph, Platinum and Reserve, I'm not so into... I've actually never had both of these cards, but I'm not so into you know chasing Delta status. um I know that like maybe if you fly Delta a lot, like the Sky Club access on the Reserve might be meaningful.
Speaker: But for me, no. We're both on the West Coast, right? So we're not like going crazy. I wish Amex actually issued the United cards. and Oh, boy. Maybe I would have chased you know like United status a little bit harder, right? But... um Not for me, at least.
Speaker: And yeah, I just wanted to mention like this 15% rebate on these cards. Like, Christoph, have you taken advantage of the 15% rebate? Like sometimes it comes in really handy, like first class awards, domestic awards. If you're on Delta Metal and you're flying international, right? Like the 15% rebate can make a pretty good dent in how much it costs. And so I have appreciated that benefit as well. Oh yeah, totally. I've seen also pretty good availability sometimes on ah flights out of Seattle to Asia from al outside.
Speaker: So this is how I burned actually through quite a few of those miles just for like extended family. ah That definitely worked. There, the 15% rebate doesn't really help.
Speaker: But you know if you're booking like these short domestic trips or you know something that's just a weekend or maybe a conference trip, um that's perfect, right? Because, well, you have to cart anyways because you got the bonus. And then, yeah, well, the 15% just is like a little extra kicker.
Speaker: That's nice. I think if you're actually, say, ah Delta captive or like in an area where, you know, Delta has a good network, then actually the Platinum and even the Reserve card can be interesting because they also have these ah companion tickets.
Speaker: and So yes, there there's all kinds of requirements and caveats that apply, but generally they can also be pretty good value so that ah you might be able to get, hey, maybe some status perks or, you know, that launch access.
Speaker: And then in addition, the kicker is a UFS companion certificate. And if you're doing that trip to Hawaii from the East coast once a year or something like that, ah that can be very, very handy.
Speaker: Yeah. All good points. Yeah. I have noticed when I'm searching for awards specifically to Asia, like, Out of SFO, really the only option that I've seen that's workable has been Vietnam Airlines. And so, you know, like I've also thought about going to Vietnam like a lot recently. like Like when can we go to Vietnam in like the next maybe two years?
Speaker: And I'm like, Vietnam Airlines could be an option. The only problem I've seen with booking through Delta is I don't see premium cabin availability, at least for Trans-Pacific.
Speaker: Now, I have found good uses, and I've unfortunately canceled these awards through Delta, um which which is nice because of their cancellation policy being like, hey, just freely book whatever you think you might take.
Speaker: But within Asia, I think Delta miles really are underrated here. like Number one, I think Sky Team in general has a lot of availability, and so Delta is like prime for this.
Speaker: And I think one of the one of the flights I booked was like... I think it was like Hanoi to somewhere in Japan. It was either Tokyo or Osaka and it was like 40k in business class. And I was like, that's really good for like a five hour, maybe six hour flight. forget how long it is. And that's flatbed that's reverse herringbone. Like you get the real experience there. And so if I was looking to book intra Asia, I would actually think about using Delta first since that seems to be, at least for me, like the best, one of the best uses that I was able to find for those.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. Essentially, anything that touches North America ah will have horrendous pricing. But if you if you have a few delta miles lying around and, hey, you're in Europe or you're in Asia, you will actually find some real value in this program.
Speaker: And it's, of course, more of a niche use case because guess what? but We're US-based, so... Well, you know, we are touching North America. ah But once you're out of this hemisphere, Delta actually has options there and decent value.
Speaker: Why don't we keep moving it here, Christoph? um B of a more rewards day. Every November, are you looking forward to the more rewards day, Christoph? Yeah, of course. I mark it in my calendar. you know like This is the big Bank of America Day.
Speaker: yeah i think it's really it's q four right? So there's a bunch of promos and bonus categories and all these things are here. And yes, so over the past years, Bank of America has brought us The more rewards day. So what is this all about, Raymond? It's just it's just like ah you know like, I guess, well, today as we're recording, it's October 8th, but like it's Prime Day, or guess like days.
Speaker: And even Walmart and Target, like they all tried to get on on this. But I feel like this is the B of A version of Prime Day, right? like They're just like, spend, spend, spend. Spend all your money on all your cards. So yeah, Thursday, November sixth um and Oh man, am I going to be able to do this? like Will I be traveling on that on that day?
Speaker: i don't know. um Sorry, tangent there, but all of their cards, doesn't matter if it's a cashback card, a points card, a miles card, or even a non-rewards credit card.
Speaker: And that part is kind of funny to me, but like if you look at their website and look at what they're offering the extra 2% on all spend is, um It's pretty funny. They have like non-rewards cards earning cash back.
Speaker: But anyways, so yeah, if you have like a customized cash rewards or a, I think it's like the travel rewards cards, the I guess the the travel version of the cash back card that earns points, um or if you have like an Alaska, one of the Summit or the Ascent cards, all of these are going to be earning plus two and all those spend. um And I think like the equivalent you could think of is like,
Speaker: Once you hit $2,500 and spend on that one card, that plus 2% is going to max out. So it's basically $50 or miles, depending on the card you have. um I don't think that there's actually a need to sign up.
Speaker: and Actually, yeah, it says no enrollment is required. So yeah, just mark your calendars. November 6th, go out and spend as much money as you can. Well, up to $2,500 on your cards. Christoph, are you going to go in on this? like It's a no-brainer, right? like Or are you just spending on your B of A cards anyways?
Speaker: Yeah, so I actually find it somewhat mildly interesting ah in the sense that, hey, we still have, you know, there's of course this preferred rewards program, right, where you get a little bit more cashback on your cards.
Speaker: Unfortunately, that bonus doesn't really stack. But on the other hand, well, if you already have a card earning 5% cashback, well, this is just another 2% on top. So you can still get some like 7% out of it.
Speaker: If you already know that you're going to spend money because, hey, you're paying taxes or, hey, you know you have to ah make this one or this other purchase and you know it's going to post that day, well, might as well take advantage, right?
Speaker: And I think the promo also applies actually per card. So if you have multiple cards, you should be able to get these 2% to on each of the cards and So we actually have multiple of these customized cash cards.
Speaker: What a name, but whatever, the 5% cards if you bump them up with platinum honors. And yeah, so it's going to be 7%. I'll be happy to take advantage.
Speaker: Yeah, 7% is a nice spread there. ah Let's keep it moving because as we said, Q4 is here. And so um all of your 5% category cards have all refreshed with new categories.
Speaker: So let's start off with Discover, the Discover It 5% card. That one has Amazon and drugstores. Yeah. Amazon.com is for me really hard to use because have other 5% cards with Amazon.
Speaker: um Drugstore spend, big question mark there. I don't even think I'm going to hit this Discover it. Christoph, are you? Yeah, I actually don't have a Discover card, so it's very easy for me. Okay. You're like, I'm not participating. All right. I'll keep it moving.
Speaker: Actually, let me actually let me correct this. If I now think about all the details, then I think my Amazon store card, I actually still have that.
Speaker: You know that Synchrony card that gives you 5% on Amazon? I have it. Yeah, that card is actually a Discover card. Oh. So ironically, here we are, at we're getting a bonus on Discover cards, but it's unnecessary because there's already a Discover card that gives you 5%. So go figure.
Speaker: Yeah. It's funny you mentioned that, Christoph, because I looked at my Amazon store card a while back. I just like, I think I was storing the number in a password manager or something. And I noticed the card. Now we're getting way off tangent.
Speaker: um The card itself starts with a six. And then I was like, wait a second. Like visas are usually four. Master cards are usually five. And then is this a discover card? And then so in my head, I was like, no, it's a master card, right? But no, you're right, Kristoff. It is a discover card.
Speaker: ah All right. Tangent over. um Let's get into the other 5% cards here because there's there's a few that we need to touch. The city dividend, one card that I don't think you can get anymore, but if you still have it. got city travel and restaurants.
Speaker: And restaurants, 5%. I mean, when you're not out at city nights, oh maybe this is the card to use. Because then you're you're getting 5% in exchange for 6x thank you points. So yeah, it'll just depend on when you're eating out.
Speaker: ah Chase Freedom, we got Old Navy, Chase Travel, department stores, and then I believe PayPal in December only, which is a weird, i don't understand who in marketing is like controlling this stuff. but Well, I can tell you, it like nobody in marketing is controlling this, but I can tell you that somebody in the rewards department is controlling this.
Speaker: To make sure that nobody spends on PayPal for Black Friday. Oh, man. I mean, yeah. Chase Freedom. I think if I had that card, PayPal December is probably the way to go.
Speaker: Old Navy is just weird. Like, why specifically Old Navy? Like, aren't they, like, part of a bigger family? Like, there's Gap and then there's Banana Republic. Like... Isn't that infringing on the Barclays Banana Republic card? like Never mind. All right. Keep it moving.
Speaker: U.S. Bank Cash Plus. Again, you get 5% on 2K spend in two categories of your choosing. So just a reminder on that one. What else am I missing here? The B of A customized cash rewards. These 3% $2,500 limits also reset.
Speaker: And so if you got multiple of those and you got status, you know, just remember... Hit your $2,500 of spend and change your category maybe to online shopping. Who knows, right?
Speaker: Because you're probably going to be doing some online shopping this holiday season. And then, yeah, you know, the the usual Amex Platinum credits, right? We don't have to really hit these, um but those have reset as well.
Speaker: Are you sure you want to skip on the Amex credits? They're very excited. They're refreshed. We have new Amex credits to talk about. Aren't you really excited about your Lululemon credit here?
Speaker: We should have a new segment in the show about that. Men's fashion. Well, P2 is going to get a Schwab plat pretty soon. So we're going to figure out how to make that Lululemon credit work for her.
Speaker: um You know, Christoph, the the one I'm really actually very excited about, strangely, is the Resi credit. You know, it's like $100 every quarter. And I'm imagining like some people have, you know, multiple personal plats. Like maybe they have a Morgan Stanley plat, a Charles Schwab plat, a vanilla platinum.
Speaker: Like you might have like $300 to spend on Resi. For me, like I like... beer. And one of my favorite places to go and drink beer is FieldWorks here in the Bay Area. And like, I just noticed today, all of the FieldWorks in the Bay Area, man, like they're all on Resi.
Speaker: So I am going to be figuring out how to use our Resi credit at FieldWorks here in the Bay. Maybe time for another a credit card meetup at FieldWorks. Yeah, it's like, yeah, especially credit card meetups. Like everybody likes to drink beer. Like the hobby kind of drives you to drink, right? like So here we are. Everybody's bringing out their plats. So yeah, I think some Resi and Fieldworks action is going to happen in Q4.
Speaker: So Christoph. I think we have to pour one out here because ah very famous called classic card has been, i guess, devalued is the right way to put it.
Speaker: Christoph, do you know what card I'm referring to here? Yes, so we really have to pour one out. So, you know, save your Resi credits. It's the Shop Your Way City Card. It is a card that many, many people love and care about and miss for their many, many spending offers.
Speaker: It is one of these fee-free cards that makes absolutely no sense because it is attached to Sears, which hardly exists anymore. Essentially the Amazon from 100 years ago. um But yeah, this card used to just hand out spending offers left and right, and it was glorious.
Speaker: And I always tried to get this card too, and it was never approved. City would approve me for all kinds of cards, but not for this card. So I was yearning to get that card, but now they announced that this card will be discontinued and converted to a different kind of card.
Speaker: And so now the only question remains... Will the spending offers continue? yeah Yeah, I agree. ah ah The Shop Your Way rewards card is purportedly being converted to a city mastercard.
Speaker: And who knows if there's going to be any benefits there. You know, I was reading the ah Miles Ernenberg post on this and... It says that Citi says that targeted spend offers are still going to continue.
Speaker: But, okay, why would you change this card if you were Citi unless it was a massive loss? Like, it was very bad on your P&L, right? Like, I don't think that any changes would have been made. Like, Sears hasn't changed in the last 25 years.
Speaker: But this card still exists. And I don't know, it seems like it was one of those cards that got a lot of attention. And well, really, because of these targeted spend offers. And you know they just said, we're we're done with this. Let's product change the entire portfolio to something ah less of a loss leader.
Speaker: So yeah, Christoph, I think you know we are going to pour one out here today on the show for the Shop Your Way Rewards MasterCard. um Those who still have it, enjoy your last few spending offers and hope for more spending offers.
Speaker: You never know. But I think, Christoph, this brings up probably something that I think the show is really going to be about today, which is what cards have existed that have offered long-term, ongoing value to its user beyond just the sign-up bonus?
Speaker: And I can think of a lot of cards that, you know, like some of these cards have just like, they've been washed away. They've been product changed. You know, they've been bought out. Things have happened and you can't get them anymore.
Speaker: Christoph, do you want to get into some of these? Man, Raymond, you make me spend all of my Resi credits on, you know, maybe another drink or two here. I mean, I need to wash down my Melancholia.
Speaker: I mean, all all of these cards that I'm, I mean... There is a lot of cards here that I have fond memories of, and I just can't get them anymore. But funny enough, you know some people might still have them in their drawer. And there's actually some significant value to be had here.
Speaker: So if just in case you have some of these cards lying around, you know take another look, because I think there are might be something here for you. And just in case you don't have any of these cards,
Speaker: Don't worry, we still have some cards that might be interesting to you going forward. But yeah, I guess my all-time favorite is actually still life. And the interesting part is that this card may in fact become available for signups again.
Speaker: I'm speaking of none other. than the US Bank Altitude Reserve card. Oh yeah, my my all-time favorite and it is still alive. We have one in the household and it has been going strong.
Speaker: Now the bad news is that this card ah has an announced nerf coming. um So it means no more 4.5% cashback on everything, assuming you use real-time rewards.
Speaker: Instead, it's going to be apparently a flat 3x earning and it's also going to be capped. But guess what? The Altitude Reserve card is one of these cards that just bonuses mobile wallet purchases.
Speaker: And so nowadays, virtually everything is a mobile wallet purchase. But but anywhere you go, even now in restaurants here in the Bay Area, right that always used to resist mobile wallets ah by asking you to put on plastic instead, even those take mobile wallets now.
Speaker: And so that Altitude Reserve card is an all-time favorite indeed. And so I hope that it's going to have a second life and a second opportunity for everybody who hasn't signed up yet to sign up in the future for something that is still, you know, three x back and a decent travel card.
Speaker: But yeah, the glory days are soon to be over. So make me spend more Eresi credits here. Yeah, Christopher, man, that is my number one as well. I think this is probably the like the unofficial credit card of the Points Project, would you say? like It's both of our favorite credit cards, I think, of all time.
Speaker: It's like my all-time favorite. And sadly, yeah, I don't have it anymore. But man, I enjoyed the 4.5% back. I think when I first saw this card, I was like...
Speaker: Is this going to be a ah you know like a harbinger of things to come in the credit card? And like nothing came close to this card. um you know High credit limits, you know ability to spend at 4.5%. This card is gone.
Speaker: But what are other cards that kind of have the same profile? I mean, if anything, like funny enough, the only card that I ever saw like really coming close to this profile of giving you 4.5% cashback on virtually anything that you can tap your phone on happened to come from US Bank itself as well. right And of course, because it came from US Bank, it also turned into a massive disaster.
Speaker: So I'm talking about none other than the US Bank Smartly card here. This card is so smartly, it used to give you up to 4% cashback. and You know, while it sounds good and if you go and check US Bank, you will still see the card, don't sign up for it because this Smartly card is very dumb.
Speaker: The new Smartly card is nerfed in all kinds of ways that make it not suitable. But just in case you got the old Smartly card, and you haven't been nerfed into the ground, well, guess what? You still have a card that gives you the chance to get 4% cash back on virtually anything with some exclusions, but generally still makes a very good driver for everyday spend at 4% if you have some assets with US Bank. And yeah, probably, you know, if you got in on the card, you you probably know what I'm talking about here.
Speaker: If not, just a caveat here, don't sign up for the new Smartly card because it's a disaster. But there might be better options out there. Yeah. yeah yeah US Bank was probably like the... They were the king of unbonus spend.
Speaker: i That's how I would mentally slot them into my my my entire scheme of all the banks in the world. There's actually a couple other cards that you can't get anymore from other banks here. i just wanted to touch on these because these...
Speaker: Not as good as the U.S. s Bank Altitude Reserve at 4.5% on everything, but you know some of these cards no longer available, but they had really good like capacity to spend on 5X categories. And so really the first one that came to mind was the City Prestige.
Speaker: You can't get this card anymore. Right. And that was a 5x on travel. And, you know, you had work reimbursing your your work trips and you're able to collect 5x on those bookings like that was great.
Speaker: I think they even have that hotel benefit, like book four nights and get, you know, the fourth night free. So that was, a I think, you know, like kind of like a ah dark horse work traveler card to use.
Speaker: You know, Christoph, in addition to that 5x travel category, it also offered 5x on dining. And so, man, like a card that gave you 5x on travel, 5x on dining, fourth night free benefit.
Speaker: Didn't it also like have these other benefits like 1.6 cents per point on AA bookings, like if you wanted to use your your points that you earned? on you know a revenue AA fare. It also had like golf yeah as a benefit.
Speaker: Yeah, even I think there was also some Admirals Club access in the early days. ah Yeah. am i sorry Crazy. And then it got grandfathered even at like different like lower rates, especially for a City Gold customers.
Speaker: So I think there's still quite a few prestige cars out there, and they're grandfathered at around $400, $450 a year annual fee. yeah Crazy, crazy profile.
Speaker: And the card looks similar in its i don't know in its marketing to the Strato Elite card. But really, the Strato Elite, even with City Knights, is much worse value proposition than that Prestige card. So if you happen to have one of those old cards, I would definitely consider holding on to it. Because as you point out, that is a real value proposition there.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. Those 5X categories, like those are those are getting harder and harder to come by. So yeah, those are long-term keeper cards in my opinion. Christoph, you remember the Chase Ink Bold and the Chase Ink Plus? You know, those the predecessors, like they were the prototype for the Ink Cash today.
Speaker: I don't know why they went away. Probably because they couldn't afford to keep handing out 5X ultimate rewards on office supply spend. But like, yeah, 50K capacity, right? Like imagine if you had a stable of these and you're just earning 5X on a staple spend. Like, oh man, like how many Hyatt and United and well, any, literally any ultimate rewards transfer ah partner or, you know, use your points to go book, like a two cent per point points boost. Like, yeah, like, ah so yeah.
Speaker: These cards are so juicy. And even today, like the ink cash is still there. but like this was double the capacity to spend at Office Supply. So I think, you know, there there was a lot of lot of reason to keep these around if you still have it in your wallet.
Speaker: And lastly, Amex. Christoph, have you ever had the privilege of having an old blue cash? I did not. And the yearning persists. Yeah. Well, me too. I made it sound like I actually had this, but I never had the old blue cash. I've had a blue cash, but that one allowed you to get, i think it was like 50 K supermarket spend at 5%. Like I've read some really like deep in the trench stories about how this was like another cult classic, similar to the, the shop your way card where, you know, people made hay with those 5% categories. And yeah, there's probably a reason it's called the old blue cash at this point.
Speaker: Yeah. So we just talked about a bunch of cards that you can't get anymore. So what was the whole point of this? Man, I'm out of Resi credits here, okay? I'm on my fourth drink. So give me some hope, man.
Speaker: There's still some value to be had, right? like on yeah Once you're done with the signup bonus, like well what's the value? And I think the first one that's coming to mind, because it's 6x, the City Strata Elite, right? City Knights, 6x.
Speaker: Yeah, it's not a Resi credit, but I'll take 6x between 3 p.m. my time on Fridays and Saturday mornings at 3 But yeah, that's one.
Speaker: ah Next one I'm thinking of here is the Blue Cash Preferred. So this is kind of like the successor to the old Blue Cash, right? But the yeah this one offers 6% on grocery.
Speaker: The only caveat here is that you get a 6K cap on spend per calendar year. So the upside is limited to $360 in cash back, but know some people can make that work for them.
Speaker: ah Christoph, any others here from our list that you like? Yeah, I mean, one thing that I had before was, of course, our Bank of America customized cash rewards cards, which ah conveniently fit in with the BFA more rewards days now. and there And they're $2,500 per quarter, 3x categories, which can be boosted up to 5x with their Platinum Honors, essentially rewards tier. If you have in assets with them, like with an IRA or even like a
Speaker: a joint brokerage account or something like this. The advantage of that card is that you can actually get multiple of these. So while you have to choose your category, hey said like online shopping, which is an easy one, ah but you might also take, say, dining or travel.
Speaker: And these categories are actually pretty broad. If you have several of these cards, you can actually set them up and pretty much on autopilot earn say 5x on any online spend that you have but just for purchases and even sometimes ah some categories that may not seem to count will still apply like i remember that hey while insurance payments for example are generally excluded from their 5x categories sometimes you know It's worth trying it out because it might happen that that payment still posts as 5x.
Speaker: It takes a little bit of experimentation, but still, 5% on your spend, seemingly on autopilot when it's set up, is actually pretty nice. And so this has has been around for a while, so i'm actually very confident that it will also hold for a while. It's not going to be a card that just disappears.
Speaker: Yeah, i hope that I hope that card does stay around. You know, the the thing I... And this is why I prefer the business side. But the thing I kind of don't like about the personal side of this customized cash rewards card is it's a small cap, right? Like $2,500. And for most people, that's fine.
Speaker: But if you have a way to, you know, gin up your spend, I think the business side, right? Like the business customized cash rewards... has these same default 3% categories, but if you're able to um if you're able to get that Platinum Honors ah worked up on the business side of things, like the cap there is 50K.
Speaker: And so you can still select one of your categories, right customized cash, but then you got the... the 3% and then the 75% uplift. So you're looking at 5.25% on 50K in spend. like If you're a business owner and you can spend in those categories, like you have a lot of cash back potential.
Speaker: I think it makes a meaningful difference. Yeah. While I do like the personal side, and you can get a lot of those on the business side, you can get a lot of the the business customized cash rewards cards. So depending on you know what your profile looks like for spend, maybe the business side is meant for you, but also personal side's not really too shabby either.
Speaker: Raymond, but what do you think? So, okay, if we talk about like 5% and clearly it's possible to get 5% right on like office stores and like Amazon and now we have to customize cash with different categories. Maybe one card that I'll call out for having also a pretty outrageous multiplier is on fuel for the Wyndham business earner card.
Speaker: ah That one's actually interesting if you actually drive a lot. right It doesn't mean that you need to have a trucking business, but hey, you know if you have a gig with Uber or Lyft or anything that really includes driving a lot, then that might be interesting.
Speaker: Now, of course, one thing is, well, you know, it's connected to Wyndham. So, yeah, Wyndham properties in the US tend to be, well, you know, like more on the low to medium tier side.
Speaker: But yeah, if you travel, you know, especially abroad, like outside the US, hey, there's actually some nice properties to be had. And I think another thing that started making us rounds in the blogosphere, but is that also there is options with Vacasa, meaning you can use these window points to book hey these vacation rentals.
Speaker: Of course, there have been like quite a few you know devaluations and changes here, so it's not something you can really rely on, but there's still value to be had. And another thing that I'll throw in here is that Windham actually has transfer partners.
Speaker: but And then about once per year, and now happens to be one of these once per year moments, they have transfer bonuses to them too. So actually right now there is a transfer bonus to United.
Speaker: meaning you can actually transfer these Wyndham points and you get a bonus both on the Wyndham side and then on the United side, effectively allowing you to transfer at a rate of 2 to 1 to United.
Speaker: Now 2 to 1 is like not that massive. But if you think back and you say like, hey, you know, you're earning your 8x on fuel there, ah suddenly this starts making some sense here.
Speaker: And guess what? If you're actually staying on Vindom, yeah, you also get like status and you get some rebates on your bookings and so on. So this is a card that is a little bit niche, but of course, like an 8x multiplier has potential here.
Speaker: And I know some of my friends have made very good use of these points. I think the main draw for me has always been the Vacasa vacation rentals side of things. um um I really don't know if I would ever stay at a Wyndham just because you know my portfolio has a lot of Marriott and a lot of Hilton to use up. like When would Wyndham ever be used as ah you know an actual hotel stay?
Speaker: And so I was looking at Vacasa and... I don't know, Christoph. I think the opportunities are still there if you look. um But for Casa, maybe it's something where the program is kind of on a downtrend, so to speak. and mean know i could you know i know a few people with large wind imbalances. Maybe this transfer bonus out to United might make sense, right? Because...
Speaker: like look at how you may have earned those Wyndham points, right? You were earning 8x on fuel. That translates into four x United miles. And, you know, for a dollar spent, four United miles very good, right? United has a lot of good access to a lot of partner flights. And even though they might be more expensive, like when you have a lot of Wyndham points and you transfer them to United, like that four to, that four miles per dollar ratio might actually make some awards make sense. And so...
Speaker: just ah Just a shout out there to anybody with a large Wyndham balance. But yeah, that this Wyndham business earner, I've never seen an 8x category multiplier, so that's a really good one.
Speaker: I think we have a couple honorable mentions here because these are not in the, I guess, 4 to 8x range, but these are still pretty good. And you know they probably should be on your radar, especially if you're focused on cashback.
Speaker: The Comenity Bread Cash Back card is a third-party Amex card. So um they are on the Amex network, but they're issued by Comenity Bank. And so this card actually has the potential for 3.75%.
Speaker: seventy five percent on fuel, grocery, restaurants, and utilities, which is those are four categories that a lot of households are going to be spending significant amounts of money on. And so I think you know if the other cards didn't meet your hit list, but you're still looking for another card that you know you might be able to spend on these categories, like 3.75% for doing the transactions per statement cycle That's decent, right? Like 3.75% is way better than like 2%, which a lot of people say is like, that should be your baseline.
Speaker: So that's one recommendation. ah There's also the Discover It miles. And I've done this one a couple times, but it's that 3% in the first 12 months. Like that basically will double your miles offer.
Speaker: And so that's nice ah because, you know, you can basically think of everything as 3% back in the first year. The only downside is that you have to wait 12 months to see the other doubled cashback, right? So you're earning 1.5% throughout the first 12 months, and then you finally get like kind of this big payout.
Speaker: It's like a tax refund. And so that is a good one to have. Christoph, are you a fan of the Discover It Miles 3% card? Yeah, well, I already told you, and no Discover cards besides the Everson Store card here.
Speaker: But on the other hand, when I'm thinking about earning 3x, well, you already know i'm I'm looking forward to maybe getting a second Altitude Reserve should it ever become available for signups again.
Speaker: And another card that is available-ish right now, that also gives you 3%, is the Robin Hood credit card. and So that one comes with a few caveats in the sense that you need Robin Hood gold and there's technically a waitlist and you know a few things that apply.
Speaker: But there is potential there too to just earn a flat 3% on virtually everything. right Some exclusions apply, but I think you Raymond actually got that card at some point, right?
Speaker: Yeah, and I still have the card. And so, yeah, it's a great card for pretty much any unbonus spend where you're not earning better than 3%, right? So I would recommend the card.
Speaker: The only downside is that it has like a, i forget if it's a $25 or $40 or $50 annual fee. So if you're not a fan of annual fees at all, like maybe avoid this card and maybe like a 2.625%
Speaker: B of A card or Discover It Miles might work better for, for but I mean, like for me, like the $50 or whatever I spend on the annual if fee wasn't too bad. So I'd still recommend the card.
Speaker: And, you know, i I did like the Robin Hood credit card for um Costco spend, right? Because it's a Visa. And so it just worked. And the nice thing is like, I remember...
Speaker: A few weeks ago, I used this card at Costco. And like immediately after you use the card, they award you the points. And so you can just redeem them like immediately, like within seconds.
Speaker: So that's an interesting tidbit about that card. And you know I'm a general fan of that card, even though I know Robin Hood is a little bit of a scary scary entity in our space. I think, you know, we talked about all these cards.
Speaker: I think you should really try to optimize your cash back, ah you know, for ongoing spend. um You know, this is something where it's like, okay, you've chased signup bonuses. You're trying to figure out what can I spend long-term and what is going to give me value?
Speaker: And I think like at least... At the very minimum, 2% should be your baseline. If you can you know gin up Platinum Honor status with B of A, maybe 2.625% should be your baseline.
Speaker: But then really, like there's no excuse. right You can go out and get a Robinhood credit card, ah Discover It Miles, or even the Bread Rewards card at 3.75 on you know a couple of important categories. like you should really think about what your daily spend is getting you back and try to optimize for this because you know you can't churn bonuses forever.
Speaker: And so at some point you're going to be where we are, I guess, Christoph, which is optimizing our ongoing spend. Yeah, it's really a good mixture, right? so Even for us, There is, of course, value and simplicity, right? Of course, yes, sure. I'm fortunate to have a US bar, so most of the daily spend just goes on that card. Yes, sure, we could get 5% on some special category, but 4.5% is good enough. And it's just simple, right? You don't think, you just use your phone that you make that payment. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Now that card alone, of course, doesn't work for certain categories. right So for example, taxes or like insurance payments, like essentially anything that is processed online, i typically need some other card.
Speaker: And actually, these other expenses are usually very suitable for signup bonuses. Even like for us, for example, we recently actually got another round of business platinum cards. right So we just got ah targeted mailers.
Speaker: We used them, we got approved. ah This is, I don't know how many of business platinum cards. So, you know, MX is very generous still with targeted offers. So if you get some of them, hey, you can still get that card and then knock out that sign-on bonus with some of this unbonused spent.
Speaker: But really, overall, i think there's a lot of value in saying like, hey, set up something like maybe 5x on utilities or 5x on your online spend or like Amazon.
Speaker: That's cool if it's an autopilot. Otherwise, every day i don't want to have a wallet where i have to, you know, page through like five different cards to find the perfect card to spend. Even if it's not perfectly optimal, it doesn't make a big difference whatsoever.
Speaker: course, US Bar, I'm a big fan here, but simplicity wins. And then just knock out those sign-on bonuses with big items like taxes and insurance and just get them out of your mind and just collect the points and move on to the next thing.
Speaker: Yeah, there's still plenty of opportunity in this space, like no question. For sure. And I think one point I wanted to make here is like, you know, we we talked about cards that you can't get anymore. And so some of these may go away, right? Like some of the benefits are just too good where they become unsustainable.
Speaker: A lot of times like a bank will cap, but some of these are uncapped still. And so, you know, there's a good chance that maybe in the future, the benefits won't be the same. And so if you wanted to lock those benefits in now, like maybe get the cards now, or at least, you know,
Speaker: Think about your application strategy. Think about, you know, what cards can you get in the next like 12 months and, you know, tailor your strategy for cashback potentially, right? Like, yeah, obviously signup bonuses, that's the way to go.
Speaker: But eventually those dry up. And so yeah optimizing your spend and thinking about what you want to do from a cashback perspective, maybe maybe worth, you know, a good 20 minute thought or brainstorm.
Speaker: I think that's a show, Christoph. You know, we hit a lot today. I mean, we we talked about Japan Airlines. We talked about some news and Q4. Man, I can't believe it's already fall. And yeah, we talked about optimizing spend.
Speaker: Anything else that you wanted to touch on, Christoph? Yeah, now that remind me of Shell, like maybe I have to go back on spending on 2X on my Venture X card to get up some more balance.
Speaker: Yes, I will definitely make that flight work. Thank God I cannot transfer because earning those channel mouths would have been impossible just a month ago. The game always changes.
Speaker: Yeah, Christoph, truer words have never been said. All right. Well, thanks everybody for listening to this episode of The Points Project with your hosts, Christoph and Raymond. Have a good one, everybody.
Speaker: See you next time. Hey there, Points Project listeners. If you enjoyed today's episode, we also have a Patreon feed where we expand upon many of the topics we discuss on this show. If you'd like access to the enthusiast member-only content and Slack group, please consider subscribing to our Patreon.
