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Nazis and Anti-Semites in Aotearoa
27 Plays3 years ago
Josh discusses the dreadful history of Aotearoa New Zealand not investigating Nazi war criminals living amongst, whilst M talks about the anti-Semitism of Social Credit NZ.
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Josh is @monkeyfluids and M is @conspiracism on Twitter
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Transcript
Political Party Registration Fiasco
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, I'm interested in registering a political party. This is the Electoral Commission, is it not? It is! Now, before we begin, let me advise you need at least 500 members in order to register a party here in Aotearoa, and you will also need a party logo. In a good week we have about 500 members, and this here is our logo. Sir, that seems to be a picture of Baboon's Bottom. You're right, it is. Well, as long as we agree. So, 500 members? In a good week, yes. Hmm, okay.
00:00:27
Speaker
Where is this party to be called? The podcaster's guide to the conspiracy party. I see. Well, in fact, actually, I don't. The what guide to the what party?
00:00:42
Speaker
and you have 500 members. On a good week, yes. Although they are really people who like to support podcasters who like to talk about conspiracy theories. Really? There are 500 people who support that. Yes, on a good week. In Aotearoa, New Zealand. Oh god, no, no. That's 500 people. On a good week, apparently. Yeah, who support that internationally. You do realise you need at least 500 people in Aotearoa, New Zealand to be listed as registered and paid supporters.
00:01:11
Speaker
to start up a political party. Sorry, 500 paid supporters. Yes. As in 100 supporters times 5. Yes. Half a thousand. That's right. 500 in human mathematics. Well, currently we don't recognise other forms of math here. I see. Can we get by with 30? No. Ah. Huh? I don't think we'll be registering the party just yet. We might have less than 500 paid members, even in a good week.
00:01:39
Speaker
Could I... Could I have my party logo picture back? The image of a Boone's Bottom. Yes. I have no idea what you're talking about. Good day. Well... I said good day, sir.
Introduction and Topics Overview
00:01:59
Speaker
The Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy, brought to you today by Josh Edison and Dr. M. Denton.
00:02:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy. I am Josh Addison in Auckland, New Zealand. They are Dr. Emdenteth in Zhuhai, China. And we have some stuff to talk to you about this week. I don't think we have any ad mini business at the start, do we?
Conference on Conspiracy Theories
00:02:25
Speaker
No, not particularly. I will say I am running a conference on conspiracy theories here in Zhuhai in early February.
00:02:32
Speaker
the paper submission process just finished for that so I now have at least twice as many paper proposals than we have slots for people to present in so my weekend and the next week will be devoted ever so slightly to going who am I sending polite projection letters to so that's fun
00:02:54
Speaker
I assume the ones you don't send polite rejection letters to, you send crude and offensive rejection letters to? Oh yes, oh yes. That's got to be the fun part. That deserve at least a curt rejection. Probably not a crude rejection, but very much a curt rejection.
Josh's Android Game and Tech Banter
00:03:10
Speaker
Written by Curt. Yes, Curtis Hargent. You could draft him in. I could, I mean that would be a bit weird, but because he has submitted a paper
00:03:21
Speaker
Get him to write his own rejection letter to himself. Who better to let him down easy? But I'm not necessarily going to reject Curtis's paper. That would be very confusing. I mean, write a provisional rejection. We're probably not rejecting your paper, but just in case, write a provisional rejection and be as Curtis as you can possibly be. Yeah.
00:03:42
Speaker
No, I think, I think now you're obliged to reject him just for comedy value alone. And given that he sometimes listens to this podcast, he's going to be very confused by what's going on here. Very, very confused. Anyway, I just remembered, of course, I what I should have done last week is what I did the week before that, which is replug my latest mobile game for Android called explosion. Nobody cares about your game because you have not ported it to iOS. And I know you're going to say
00:04:09
Speaker
It costs too much money to port to iWears. But Josh, you are a podcaster. You are losing money doing this hobby all the time. Why not just suck it up and pay $150 per year to sell something on the Apple App Store for virtually no profit whatsoever, but do it for the fans.
00:04:30
Speaker
do it for the fans. Also, you only have to pay the developer fee once and it'll be there forever. What is 150 bucks when it's my enjoyment of playing your game? How about I put an HTML version of it up on a website so you can play it in a browser? I mean, yeah, but I want to smash the screen with my finger. Yeah, I know. We all do.
00:04:56
Speaker
Well, tell them to stop being such extortion advanced with their developer fees. Yeah, well, the thing is, as a hobbyist, I'm quite happy with paying $25 to Google to get a Google developer account and be able to submit things to the Play Store. But I'm not okay with paying $150 to Apple per year for an Apple account to submit things to the Apple Store when I haven't even got generating stuff
00:05:21
Speaker
in iOS format down in the first place anyway. So I'm afraid you'll just have to wipe away your Apple tears, if that's a thing.
00:05:37
Speaker
And, Josh, Josh, you've not just betrayed me, but you've betrayed the listeners to this podcast. It's like you've become one of those Spotify or Audible exclusive podcasts where you have to sign up to a particular service, in this case, a Google phone to be able to play your game. Don't you want your game to be available to everyone? I do. But I don't want to pay Apple $150 for a game I'm going to be giving away for free because chances are little more than two dozen people will ever install it.
00:06:07
Speaker
But anyway, if you've got an Android device, go to the Play Store and search for Xploto Pool. It's jolly good fun if I do say so myself. And if you do have an Android device, please flush that device down the toilet.
Nazis and Antisemitism in New Zealand
00:06:19
Speaker
Nothing wrong with Android devices. They're quite fine. Anyway, let's talk about Nazis. Fine. Fine. Okay. Either way, you want to get me off talking about my... Yeah, into something a bit more savoury and palatable than like Nazis. Of Google.
00:06:35
Speaker
an organization which recently got into trouble for firing people for adhering to their don't do evil policy, which it turns out they've kind of... More of a rule of thumb now. Well, I mean, not even that, truth be told. And you want to distract me with Nazism, and also I should point out antisemitism. Yeah, because of course you have to add antisemitism onto the Nazis, because that's...
00:07:00
Speaker
You're not going to try and distract me by being anti-Semitic. No. We're going to talk about anti-Semitism and Nazis, and which do go together. A bit of overlap, I think, there. Yeah. Fist and glove, but actually it turns out that we'll be talking about both Nazis and anti-Semites who aren't necessarily Nazis, although it turns out one of the reasons why we're talking about the anti-Semites in the first place is due to Australian Nazis, which might be the worst kind of Nazi.
Nazi War Criminals in New Zealand
00:07:27
Speaker
But we'll get into that later. Yes. And by later,
00:07:30
Speaker
We've been now. This is a very confusing preamble. Let's go to a sting. So today we're back in New Zealand, by which I mean I've never left New Zealand in
00:07:48
Speaker
is physically in China, but spiritually, we're both back in the same country to talk about a bunch of things of a conspiratorial nature that have occurred in New Zealand. A weird feeling of déjà vu here, that I should be singing some kind of avita puran, don't cry for me, Auckland region. This is kind of this weird sense, like we've been here before.
00:08:11
Speaker
Spoiler, we have. Turns out our first attempt to record the content part of this episode completely fell apart due to a dodgy internet connection to move from Zen County into the zoo. And thus you have missed out on my rendition of Don't Cry For Me Argentina about the Auckland region. Some people will consider that missing audio to be a lost pressure.
00:08:34
Speaker
that will be talked about through the ages. Other people will be very glad they didn't hear me go, don't cry for me, Auckland region. Especially because I still don't think that's a very good rhyme, but you're trying your best and that's what counts.
00:08:50
Speaker
Anyway. That's true.
Antisemitism in New Zealand's Political History
00:08:52
Speaker
That's what being an associate professor is. Trying your best. Trying your best. So we have two separate topics to talk about this week. Neither of which we felt would probably fill out an episode by themselves, but by their powers combined, we should be able to bring you an episode's worth of content. So I've got one thing to talk about. Em's got one thing to talk about. They're both of a sort of an anti-Semitic, Nazi adjacent nature.
00:09:16
Speaker
Which I mean, no, one of them isn't Nazi adjacent, one of them is just Nazis. Mine is just, yeah, that's my one. Spoilers. And why don't I kick things off?
00:09:27
Speaker
Talking about the... Why not kick things off by kicking some Nazis? Well, unfortunately, that's kind of not what happened. And that's that's sort of the issue. New Zealand has been has a has a has an unfavorable history when it comes to getting rid of Nazi war criminals found in this country.
00:09:48
Speaker
So this is a continuation of a conversation we've had previously. Back in the bonus episode, for episode 281 last year, we talked about the case of Willy Huber, a man who died last year, having lived in the South Island since the 1950s.
00:10:09
Speaker
But he was an S.S. officer who was jailed after World War II but came here afterwards on a working visa in the 1950s, eventually retired down south and sort of reinvented himself as a ski resort owner.
00:10:29
Speaker
And then after he died, people, sort of the locals, the people who knew him were like, ah, he seemed a decent old fella, you know, didn't engage in any genocide that I saw.
00:10:42
Speaker
And nobody really seemed that interested in, in any way, sort of confronting the man's past as a Nazi. And not just any Nazi, he was a member of the Waffen SS, the paramilitary corps of the SS, and not just any member of the Waffen SS, he was a volunteer member, suggesting he actually... Yeah, he was the kind of guy who went, hey, I kind of like what these Waffen FS
00:11:08
Speaker
often is up to, I want to join in on that, I want to get in on the SS spirit. So he never denied the fact that he had been a Nazi, but when asked would talk about having been in the German army, but not mentioning being a volunteer for the SS,
00:11:28
Speaker
and even claimed that he didn't even know what the Waffen-SS did. Gosh, it certainly sounds like they got up to some very nasty things in World War II, but I wouldn't know anything about that. And there's an awful lot of Sargent Schultz from Hogan's Heroes here, I know nothing, I know nothing. Were you just always looking the wrong way when the SS were doing their thing? Because, you know,
00:11:53
Speaker
you were a member of that organization and yet somehow you didn't see anything that your comrades in arms were doing or indeed things that you were doing with your comrades in arms. Very peculiar. Almost disingenuously peculiar. You might think so. But yeah, so I asked you, there was a bit of a fuss about the fact that why are we sort of celebrating the passing of this unrepentant Nazi
00:12:24
Speaker
just because, oh, he gave back to the skiing community. He made some nice ski fields, and why speak of the dead? There didn't seem to be any
00:12:38
Speaker
any drive anywhere to hold him or rather hold his memory account accountable to the things that he did in his past and unfortunately there's something of a theme there because New Zealand does not have the greatest history when it comes to dealing with Nazi war criminals who have been found in our midst. So the new piece, the new thing we want to talk about this week
00:13:07
Speaker
came out. It was talked about earlier this year, I think it's there have been documentaries earlier than that as well. But there's the case of a man called Jonas Pukas, who was formerly of Lithuania, but moved to New Zealand after the war and was at the time living in the suburb of Glenfield, up here. Possibly in one of the worst suburbs in the country.
00:13:32
Speaker
Well, I don't like to speculate, but here's one of a number of people in the 1990s. I think in 1990, right at the start, the American Simon Wiesenthal Center gave the Labour government a list of eight Nazi war criminals that it believed were living in New Zealand. And on that list was this man, Mr. Pukas. Now,
00:13:56
Speaker
The government, he was investigated. A man called Wayne Stringer, who was a former police officer, was sent out to interview the man.
00:14:07
Speaker
and interviewed him twice, I believe, back in 1992. And to quote this more recent article that talks to a former officer stringer, yeah, it came by the phrase, he was a horrible little man, shows up a bit. He
00:14:29
Speaker
He was actually one of two police officers pointed to investigate this list but that he said that he talked about his interviews with Mr. Booga. So at the time was 78 years old. I should say this he died in 1994 and the two years after he was
00:14:46
Speaker
interviewed him. He was an old man at the time, and he interviewed him about his history and what he may or may not have been involved in during World War II. Now, he, as I said, was Lithuanian. He was apparently a member of the Second Lithuanian Police Battalion, a battalion that was known to have taken part in some fairly horrific massacres and around
00:15:10
Speaker
the city of Minsk. In particular there was the Slutsk massacre, being somewhere nearby Minsk, which Mr Pukka seemed to know a lot about, but denied actually taking part in it all. He gave
00:15:29
Speaker
some fairly graphic descriptions of what it sounded like for the people being shot and so on and sort of claimed he either sort of witnessed it or heard about it or was sort of in the same area where it happened but wasn't actually involved in it specifically in particular and I've sort of looked at a couple of articles about this and lots of people mention the fact that he
00:15:56
Speaker
When talking about details of these massacres, he claimed that the Jews of Minsk screamed like geese as they were being shot, and claimed that they used to fly into the air, he said, with a bit of a chuckle, supposedly, as these people were shot, which obviously is a phrase that certainly stuck out to a lot of people as being fairly abhorrent.
00:16:26
Speaker
So he claimed, well, he said that he was indeed a member of the 2nd with the Iranian police battalion. He said he never took part in any massacres. To begin with, he said he was never there, but then he said he was there, but he was only there because he had been teaching German officers in Minsk to ride horses. And they decided to ride off to this town of Slutsk just as an excursion while they were learning to ride.
00:16:56
Speaker
Now, Officer Stringer, former Officer, retired Officer Stringer, is quite blunt in his opinion that this was bullshit, to use his words.
00:17:06
Speaker
He basically says that the man's story changed, was inconsistent, changed over time and there are lots of those very convenient memory lapses that you hear when people are talking about things, the bits of it that he
00:17:26
Speaker
just couldn't, you know, anything that might have been exceptionally pertinent or potentially incriminating turned out to be something that I know, I'm sorry, that was such a long time ago, I can't possibly remember that. Indeed, right down to describing things one second, they go, oh, I've got no memory of that a second later. So I mean, this massacre that he's alleged to have taken part in is apparently is
00:17:52
Speaker
written as being one of the most infamous of the war and very heavily documented. We know an awful lot about it. Apparently it was so bad that it even offended even even some of the Nazis thought it was a little bit a little bit little bit more than they could stomach. The local the German commissioner of the area named Heinrich Karl
00:18:16
Speaker
claimed that he was so disgusted by the, quote, indescribable brutality of these killings that he wrote to his superiors and said, I beg you to grant me one request in future, keep this battalion away from me. So it was a, you know, a very, very nasty affair that he very, very definitely seemed to have been involved in despite his own protestations. So we know all of this. He gave these interviews.
00:18:46
Speaker
And Mr. Stringer came away convinced that this guy is absolutely full of it when he says he wasn't there and didn't take part in it. He was quite convinced that he did. So Stringer went to the then Sillister General, John McGrath QC.
00:19:06
Speaker
He said, despite the testimony from the Stringer and the other officer who was sent to interview, these people said that none of the people who had been investigated were guilty, even on a prima facie basis, of committing war crimes based on the evidence that had been gathered.
00:19:25
Speaker
He did say he referred to one unnamed man who was probably present when a war crime was committed and said it was possible he was involved in this culpable homicide and now it comes out that that man was Mr Pukas.
00:19:40
Speaker
Basically, nobody decided to bring any charges or do anything about it, which basically brought on some fairly stern condemnation from some quarters about the way out this country basically chose to ignore Nazi war criminals living here. For me, it sort of sounds like nobody, it all sounded like a lot of bother.
00:20:08
Speaker
to investigate, to charge, to possibly have these people deported. It certainly sounds like there's a lot of, ah, I mean, it's gonna be a lot of trouble. It's gonna be a little hassle. It'll cause a lot of fuss. And these guys, you know, they're old men. Like, what's the point? And certainly, I suppose you could say luckily for the authorities in this case, the man died two years later anyway, which
00:20:32
Speaker
which got rid of any talk of having him deported or charged with anything or what have you. And that was kind of the end of it then. But over the years, up until just August of this year, when the article that I was reading this from came out,
00:20:51
Speaker
It is still talked about and is kind of a black mark on New Zealand's name, unfortunately. Which is a nice way to segue into my little topic about anti-Semitism in the country, because New Zealand does not have the best reputation.
00:21:07
Speaker
when it comes to dealing with people who aren't white. So I'm quite specifically referring to New Zealand and not Aotearoa New Zealand here, because we're talking about the Pākehā state. So from the country that gave you at the beginning of the 20th century a parliamentary debate about whether it would be right to wipe out māori or just re-educate them as white people.
00:21:32
Speaker
After World War II, the New Zealand Parliament also debated whether we really wanted any Jewish refugees coming to this country, because they're not like us. They're not the kind of people you want in a decent society. And so New Zealand got condemned after the Second World War for not taking Jewish refugees after the discovery of what the Nazis were up to in the Holocaust, and of course the defeat of the defeat of that Nazi problem.
00:22:01
Speaker
and this to a large extent fits in with the fact that anti-Semitism has been a feature of our political culture here. Blaming the Jews for things is something which happened a lot during the 20th century, which brings us, I'm about to say nicely, nicely is not the right word here, brings us neatly I think to the discussion of what used to be
Rise and Fall of Social Credit Party
00:22:27
Speaker
our country's third biggest political party up until about the mid-80s social credit. So from the 50s until the 80s social credit was the third party in New Zealand politics. They were
00:22:44
Speaker
for local New Zealanders as a the act of their day in that they were the third party unlike act until recently social credit was remarkably successful in some elections so in 1981 for example they got
00:23:02
Speaker
20% of the vote and in 1966 they got 15% of the vote in the general election. However, due to the fact that at the time the country was under first pass the post and had no proportional representation, even getting close to one in five votes in the country only actually turned out to be two seats in a parliament of 100 people.
00:23:27
Speaker
So you could get a very, very big groundswell of support and no representation back in those dark, dark days. And so social credit really were very, very big. After the mid-80s and neoliberal reforms of the fourth Labour government, basically social credit disbanded and became part of the alliance at one stage.
00:23:52
Speaker
element of social credit still persists to this day in some parts of the electoral system.
Social Credit's Economic Theory and Antisemitism
00:24:00
Speaker
So, for example, when I was voting in Hamilton East last year in the general election, I could have voted for a social credit candidate. For some reason, they've remained remarkably popular in Kiri Kiriura slash Hamilton, in part because their greatest leader, Bruce Beatham, who we'll be talking about in a minute,
00:24:20
Speaker
was mayor of Hamilton back in the 80s. So social credit were a really, really big deal. And they were a big deal because social credit kind of was an alternative
00:24:35
Speaker
to the capitalist system under which people lived, that also wasn't a form of socialism. So social credit owes itself to the work of one Clifford Hugh Douglas, often called Major C.H. Douglas,
00:24:52
Speaker
He's a Brit. His early life is incredibly vague in that he claims to have worked for numerous companies around the world, all of which claim to have no record of him working for them at all. So there's a bit of a question as to whether his potted history of his own past is in any way accurate.
00:25:12
Speaker
What we do know is that after World War II, he came up with an economic theory that basically goes A plus B does not equal A. I mean, that sounds a bit right. Now, Josh, well, I mean, this B is zero, I suppose, is B zero.
00:25:29
Speaker
Well, so that's the thing. So this kind of gets to the heart of Clifford Douglas's economic theory. So his theory is, look, the total cost of goods produced turns out to be greater than the purchasing power of the people who produce them. So workers, he's claiming, are not being paid enough to buy back what they've made.
00:25:52
Speaker
Now his argument as to why that is the case, the fact that it turns out that your purchasing power does not equal, sorry, the amount of labour you put into the system doesn't allow you to then get the fruits of your labour, is due to a conspiracy. He argued that scarcity is largely an artificial and inflated problem.
00:26:18
Speaker
designed by people in boardrooms to pump up prices. He wrote two books on this. In 1920 he wrote Economic Democracy and Credit, subtitle Power and Democracy, and in 1924 the book Social
00:26:34
Speaker
credit, and in these books he's fixated by what he takes to be the just price, the price that you should be paying for a good based upon the amount of labour you put in, and the idea that there should be debt-free credit available to all people in society, his so-called social credit.
00:26:57
Speaker
Now, this particular non-communistic but anti-capitalist economic theory became incredibly popular in certain parts of the Commonwealth. So, notably, social credit was very successful in Canada,
00:27:15
Speaker
Australia and of course our own Aotearoa, New Zealand. And this is where things get slightly awkward because Clifford engaged in a little bit of antisemitism.
Purging Antisemitism from Social Credit
00:27:32
Speaker
Now his Wikipedia entry only has the barest reference to the antisemitism which appears in his book Social Credit.
00:27:43
Speaker
in social credit, he does this kind of weird move where he goes, look, I know the protocols of the elders of Zion is a forgery and a hoax, but we kind of know it's true, right? I mean, we know the documents fake.
00:27:59
Speaker
But we know that conspiracy they're talking about is real. There are these banking cartels and financial institutions like the Rothschilds and all those and the Rockefellers and all those other Jewish families who are in control of international finance. So yeah, the protocols, they may be fake.
00:28:19
Speaker
But the actual story they tell, we know that's true. Now, this is actually a move that alt-right slash neo-Nazi intellectual Kerry Bolton makes in his alleged PhD dissertation. He runs exactly the same argument. And indeed, it is interesting that when we were talking about Action Zelandia last year and the fact that Action Zelandia keep interviewing Kerry Bolton,
00:28:45
Speaker
the people of actions Alandia and Kerry Bolton are all very keen about putting their political effort back into rehabilitating and making social credit a major party back home. So there's obviously a we can we can kind of get away with our anti-Semitism in social credit because it's kind
00:29:06
Speaker
kind of already baked up. So yeah, Clifford basically indulges in a little bit of anti-Semitism to go, banking cartels are real and they are part of the conspiracy to inflate prices. Now, admittedly, this is a passing reference in the book, Social Credit. And some people say he very much resigned from those views with time.
00:29:30
Speaker
The problem is the social credit movement, particularly the social credit parties we saw overseas in Canada, Australia and Aotearoa, New Zealand, ended up being more anti-Semitic than just a passing reference in a book. And this is kind of intriguing because looking into this,
00:29:51
Speaker
Social Credit, the party, and this is the party in New Zealand, the party in Canada, and the party in Australia, doesn't really ever mention Clifford's antisemitism, let alone their own dalliances with antisemitism. I found a Canadian PhD dissertation on the history of Social Credit in Canada, which goes into horrific details as to how antisemitic that organization was, particularly in the 50s and 60s.
00:30:20
Speaker
I found a master's dissertation written at the University of Waikato, which talks about the history of social credit, and the anti-Semitism basically makes one or two references. The social credit party page, since they are so an active party in our local and general elections, makes no reference to anti-Semitism or Clifford's views on Jews whatsoever. However,
00:30:47
Speaker
We know that there was a problem of antisemitism in the party because Bruce Beatham, who was their most successful leader, had to purge the party of antisemites in the 70s right up until the late 1980s.
00:31:07
Speaker
So you can't really say that anti-Semitism isn't a problem in your party when your political leader spends almost 20 years purging anti-Semites from your party organization. Yeah, it is a little bit of a contradiction there.
00:31:27
Speaker
Is it, I mean, do we know if, I suppose it's hard to say, if anti-Semitism was sort of baked into the idea of social credit, or if people who were already anti-Semitic sort of joined in on this party and
00:31:43
Speaker
at least weren't rebuffed from it. Did the anti-Semitism come from without or within? But I suppose at the end of the day, there's no denying it was there, however it got there. Yeah, and a lot of the anti-Semitism ended up being expressed as dog whistles.
00:31:58
Speaker
So one thing which social credit was really, really big on was conservative Christian values. So they had a rather avant-garde economic policy. They had very conservative views on social issues.
00:32:19
Speaker
Apparently, there was a big issue around the abortion debate within social credits, because social credits, by and large, were anti-abortion. They were very conservative in their thinking. And they'd often talk about the idea that proper Christians, proper Christians aren't going to engage in money lending and the like.
00:32:39
Speaker
And of course, this is actually being part of what has motivated anti-Semitism, particularly in Europe over time, which was the fact that because Christians were ostensibly banned from engaging in money lending and the like, they allowed other members, non-Christian members of their society to engage in the running of finance and the lending of cash.
00:33:08
Speaker
which turned out to be a much more profitable endeavor than just normal business transactions. So by forcing people like the Jewish people to engage in that tawdry business of money, lending, good Christians were able to avoid the stigma of engaging in such deplorable activities.
00:33:30
Speaker
And then the Christians got really annoyed that actually it turns out that's a really profitable thing to do and then blame the Jewish people for engaging in a conspiracy to rob Christians of their money, even though it was the Christians who basically forced the Jewish people to engage in an activity because the Christians weren't going to.
00:33:48
Speaker
do it. That's as a really trivial analogy here. It's like the British getting really really annoyed that people from overseas come to do menial jobs in the UK, despite the fact that the Brits themselves don't want to do those menial jobs. Those jobs should be for British people who don't want to do those jobs. And money lending was exactly the same. It should be done by good Christians, except of course good Christians aren't going to do it.
00:34:18
Speaker
So yeah, there's this whole kind of dog whistling of all we know.
00:34:24
Speaker
they're the ones who are lending us the money. And that's not a good Christian thing to do. And yeah, this is kind of just riddled through the social credit system. And Beetham, in his wisdom, when actually we can't really be engaging in this kind of thinking as a modern political party. And he was particularly concerned with the League of Rights.
00:34:52
Speaker
Now the League of Rights was, and I say was, is still an Australian organisation. They were set up in the 1950s, just after World War II, and whilst they don't claim to be a neo-Nazi organisation, they also don't think the Nazis did anything particularly bad.
00:35:14
Speaker
So the League of Rights takes the social credit system of economics and then just actually is explicitly anti-Semitic at the same time. And because they were very operational in Australia, they also had branches and operations in New Zealand as well.
00:35:35
Speaker
And it turns out that they were going, well, look, the only political party that agrees with us on economic policies because we both share the same love of Clifford Douglas is social credit. So, of course, we're going to make sure that members of the League of Rights in New Zealand belong to the social credit party.
00:35:54
Speaker
We are also explicitly anti-Semitic, so of course we're going to be expressing our anti-Semitism within our party system. And Beetham basically had to cut them off from the party in order to stop them from basically making the party seem even worse than it was. And so when did this happen, this purging of the League of Rights?
00:36:17
Speaker
So depending on who you talk to or depending on what source you look at, people say, oh, by the by the 70s, basically anti-Semitism was gone in social credit, except that Beetham was still purging the membership of anti-Semites right up until 1984. And this this is the thing which is kind of frustrating about researching the social credit and anti-Semitism link is that it seems like every single local source
00:36:45
Speaker
about social credit in Aotearoa, New Zealand, really, really, really wants to downplay the anti-Semitism that the party engaged in. Because, as we were talking about with respect to those Nazi war criminals, it just seems a bit of a bother to talk about these things. I mean, it's ancient history, Josh. I mean, 1984 was, you know, what, 200 years ago or so? It's ancient history. No one in living memory.
00:37:12
Speaker
remembers 1984. I was such a long time ago and indeed one of the reasons why Beetham was purging the membership of social creative anti-Semites in 1984 was that in 1981
00:37:28
Speaker
Labour had, in part when they were trying to campaign to become government, were campaigning against the third largest party, Social Credit, by campaigning about the fact that Social Credit was filled with anti-Semites. Right. Yeah, it's a funny one. I mean, I don't know the demographics at all. New Zealand doesn't have
00:37:50
Speaker
a particularly prominent Jewish community, although it does have one, unfortunately the only time... And one of the reasons why we don't have a very large Jewish community is after World War II, we didn't want any refugees to come from that particular part of Europe. Yes, the sad fact is I think the only time we do ever hear anything from the Jewish community
00:38:12
Speaker
is when some neo-Nazi shithead in Christchurch has been spraying swastikas on stuff, and we'll get a statement condemning them. So, yeah, I mean it's, I suppose, more so perhaps than in other countries, the Jewish people would make an easier target.
00:38:28
Speaker
for people who want to get a bit of good old-fashioned anti-Semitism into their political parties. So where's social credit today, then?
Social Credit's Legacy Today
00:38:37
Speaker
As I say, they still run candidates in certain elections, both local and general. They're still an active party. They've got a registered membership. They've got a party logo, a party website.
00:38:51
Speaker
They've just gone from being a really, really big party to one of those parties that was subsumed into the alliance after the fourth, well actually during the fourth Labour government in the split between the left at that particular point in time.
00:39:07
Speaker
And like most parties that joined the Alliance with the exception of the Greens, those parties basically withered on the vine and died because it turns out that Jim Anderton was a horrible human being that no one could work with, apart from apparently the fifth Labour government. Yes, there was a lot of political
00:39:28
Speaker
history packed into the 1980s in New Zealand but maybe that's oh I was gonna say maybe that's for another episode we have talked about it in other episodes but maybe it's for another other episode as well always making promissory notes about future episodes we may never get around to well it's the best thing about the future it will literally never happen it's not happening right now no exactly now there was one last thing about we it's come up a little bit in the past when we've talked about your your actions Elantias and what have you here in New Zealand hasn't it
00:39:56
Speaker
Yeah, so as I say, when we when we were talking about action Zelandia last year, or was it actually beginning of this year? I time has become very, very, very recently. So as I say, Kerry Bolton and the actions Zelandia podcast hosts were talking about the idea that they you know, they'd love to support social credit to bring social credit being back in as an economic theory, they could really get behind social
00:40:22
Speaker
credit and you have to feel that the reason why they're so comfortable in endorsing social credit is that they're going, look, I've read the book Social Credit. I know that Clifford was an anti-Semite. I mean, I know he says the protocols are a hoax, but you know, he also says they weren't. And that's exactly what Kerry Bolton, as I said, claims in his purported PhD dissertation that, you know, the
00:40:49
Speaker
the protocols are fake but spiritually we know they're true so you know spiritually we can learn lessons from them and so yes I mean luckily organizations like Axons of Landia and the like
00:41:06
Speaker
aren't particularly big or influential for the time being and so the chances of having any particular political power seems low particularly if they're going to spend more time trying to resurrect dead political parties rather than infiltrating live ones like say the national party or act but yes there is a there is a call by some people to go to social credit and the worry is that social credit is largely based upon
00:41:36
Speaker
an anti-Jewish conspiracy theory. Well there you go. And I think that brings us to the end of this episode, a slightly depressing survey of New Zealand's less than stellar history when it comes to matters antisemitic. Now we have a bonus episode to record after this one which
00:41:56
Speaker
Going by our notes, I don't think we've got any anti-Semitism in the bonus content at least, but Jimmy Savile has a look in those, so I don't know if that's better or worse, quite frankly. I mean, let's just say...
00:42:14
Speaker
It's equally as bad. Actually, no, that's not true. I actually don't. Actually, that's probably not right. I mean, systemic anti-symptism is probably worse than what Jimmy Savile did as an individual. But it's still pretty bad.
00:42:30
Speaker
Yeah, precisely. There's been another one of those academic hoax things, has there? Yes. And it's all, well, I mean, it's kind of weird, but we'll get into a stock hole cube after the break.
00:42:45
Speaker
Yeah, so if you would like to hear about those topics and you're not currently a patron of this podcast, you can simply go to patreon.com and search for the podcasters guide to the conspiracy and sign yourself up. If you already are a patron, good for you. As is well known by now, you are literally the best of all people.
00:43:04
Speaker
in the world. And if you don't want to be a patron, you may not be the best of people in the world, but you're right up there. You're right near the top of the list, simply by virtue of being one of our audience members. And we thank you greatly. But I don't have anything else to say before we round out this episode. Anything from you? No. No? Well, in that case, I'm just going to be a stickler for tradition and go with goodbye. Interesting. Very interesting.
00:43:33
Speaker
The podcaster's guide to the conspiracy is Josh Addison and me, Dr. M.R.X.Denteth. You can contact us at podcastconspiracyatgmail.com, and please do consider supporting the podcast via our Patreon. And remember, it's just a step to the left.