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E015 Abby Williams and Libby German
2.1k Plays6 years ago
Heroism and resistance take many forms-- including the use of social media. In this week’s episode, Maggie and Allison explore the tragic deaths of two teenage girls who were savvy enough to provide clues to their killer and loving enough to never leave each other’s side.
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Transcript
Digital Age Privacy Concerns
00:00:00
Speaker
In a 21st century world, it can be frightening to think about the amount of information people can find out about us. With a simple Google search, thousands of results come up about any subject. As adults, we have the constant worry that hackers are going to steal our bank information or someone will get access to our social security number. We worry that Facebook and Instagram are selling our private information. I'm not a parent, but I can only imagine how my fears of social media will grow when I become one.
Parental Fears and Online Safety for Children
00:00:28
Speaker
As a parent, I'm sure you feel like it's your job to keep your kids safe. You worry over every possible predator, even those on social media. You set parental guidelines, you check your kid's account, you try to keep them safe.
00:00:41
Speaker
We always see how dangerous social media can be. People feel safe behind that screen. They're braver when they don't have to face their victim.
Bravery of Abigail and Liberty
00:00:49
Speaker
But what if the bravery comes from the receiving end? We acknowledge a victim for their bravery when they stand up to their bully. It takes a lot of courage to stand up to someone who spent months, if not years, making you feel less than human.
00:01:02
Speaker
You imagine the moment when you'll finally build up enough courage to say your peace, to stand up for yourself. Some of us never gain the courage to escape our bully's grasp. So imagine having the courage to stand up to someone who you have just met and they're trying to hurt you.
00:01:17
Speaker
Imagine having the courage to use one of the things we fear, social media, to record the voice of someone trying to kill you. Our victims today were brave enough. They did stand up. They have given police the biggest leads in this case. This is the story of Abigail Williams in Liberty, German.
Introduction to 'Coffee and Cases' Podcast
00:02:10
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:02:19
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing
Podcast Engagement and Goals
00:02:46
Speaker
this week.
00:02:46
Speaker
Before we begin our show today, Allison and I want to remind you about our challenge. You guys were so awesome for getting us to our 15 written comment goal so quickly a few weeks ago. We decided we have got to up the ante.
00:03:04
Speaker
This one, our new goal, is lofty, I will say, but we know that we need to set our sights high. We want to get to 150 ratings on iTunes. We currently have 73, so what we're aiming for is more than double what we currently have, but
00:03:22
Speaker
It only takes a split second. If you are listening to us on iTunes right now, click for that five-star rating, add a stoplight, of course, or a stop sign if you're driving.
00:03:37
Speaker
but it only takes a second. Click it. Yes, click it. We have listeners from all over the world, including a growing listenership in Sweden. So while this is a big ask, we know that you can do it. It may take a little longer than last time to get to our goal, but when we get to 150, we will do another bonus episode. Just make sure that you follow us on social media, Coffee and Cases podcast on Facebook,
00:04:04
Speaker
or at Coffee Cases podcast on Instagram, or, as always, listen in each week to know when that bonus episode will air. Okay, let's get into today's show.
Abby and Libby's Friendship and Disappearance
00:04:17
Speaker
Allison, the case that we're talking about today is another one that leaves me heartbroken. Last week's story was so sad, and this one is more of the same. Aw, I know.
00:04:29
Speaker
Abigail Williams, or Abby, was 13, and Liberty German, also known as Libby, was 14, and they were best friends. And as I read their story, I couldn't help but think back on my friends at that age. I remember summer spent swimming, sleepovers, playing outside. One of my friends lived on literally the top of a hill, and we would just play outside all day when it was warm.
00:04:56
Speaker
And we loved when the weather started warming up because that meant that we weren't like riding under their parents' noses. We could get outside and be a little more independent. A couple of my good friends and I, none of us could sing. None of us could dance. But we wanted to form a rock band. Yes! Oh, we were in fifth grade!
00:05:17
Speaker
we were called leather and lace okay and Heather and Kelly and I go to this it was like a little bridge but it was outside of like their home and we would stand on this bridge and we would practice like singing and choreography and all kinds of stuff yeah we thought we were pretty hot i can remember in seventh grade i think maybe it was eighth grade
00:05:39
Speaker
eighth grade that some of my friends we too wanted to be a girl band and so for the eighth grade talent show we sang um lady
00:05:50
Speaker
What is that? Lady Marmaline? Yeah, because we had no idea what it meant. So, like, we were up on stage, like, singing all day in front of the school. We had no idea what it meant. No. And we wore, like, those matching, you remember those, like, popcorn shirts that would, like, grow. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We were pretty cool. Oh, my goodness. So, Abby and Libby felt the same way, just like we were talking about. They loved to be outside. And on this unusually warm day in February, Abby and Libby wanted to enjoy the warm weather.
00:06:20
Speaker
You see, Allison, Abby and Libby had a very special friendship because they had so much in common. They both loved being outside. They loved to hike. They loved taking pictures. They loved everything about nature. And I'm sure they also enjoy the fact that they did not have school on this particular day. Oh, yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker
and I had a bonus. So I can totally relate to them. I am a spring and summer person. So as soon as it starts warming up, I'm outside taking it in, just baking in the sun, I love it. And so I just feel so relaxed, so I can relate to them there. Like I mentioned before, on February 13th, 2017. Oh, so the day before Valentine's Day.
Hiking Trip and Initial Search Efforts
00:07:01
Speaker
Yes. And wasn't one of our most recent, another recent case around Valentine's Day?
00:07:06
Speaker
Wasn't it, I think with Alyssa Lamb, her video was released. Yeah, on Valentine's Day. On Valentine's Day. So many connections. In nature. In the cases that we have. On Valentine's Day. Don't go hiking.
00:07:21
Speaker
but this one's not about Canada, so I did break my cycle there. This one is in Indiana. So on February 13th, their plan was to go hiking in a beautiful area on Manon High Bridge Trail, which is just east of the small town of Delphi, Indiana.
00:07:37
Speaker
According to an article, the Unsolved Delphi Snapchat murders, Libby had been asking her sister non-stop to drive them to the trailhead, but Kelsey kept refusing. Eventually, she agreed, and at 1.35 p.m., Kelsey dropped Abby and Libby at the trailhead. Libby's dad agrees to pick the girls up at the end of the trail around 3.15 p.m. So they weren't only gonna be gone like, not even two hours? Yeah.
00:08:05
Speaker
And you said this is a small town. Yes, it is a smaller town. So, like I imagine it.
00:08:14
Speaker
This brought back so many moments in my mind, but my mom came in last summer where we live and there's a really pretty park that you can take all of these trails and they walk around the town and part of it's like paved and then you can go off like up into the hill and stuff like that. And so I took my mom because she walks all the time and she would not
00:08:36
Speaker
And there were families walking. She would not go up into the trail part of it. And she was like, I just don't want to go by myself without your dad or without Anthony here. I'm just afraid something bad will happen. And I was like, mom, you're so crazy. And then you researched this case. And then you were like, OK, mom was right. Yeah, as always, my mother was correct. Never doubt.
00:08:57
Speaker
So Libby's dad, Derek, arrives, and I actually saw a couple different accounts. Some people say it was her dad that came, some article said it was her grandpa, but they arrive at 3.15 to pick up the girls, only they're not there when they arrive.
00:09:12
Speaker
okay so maybe like a lot of the cases maybe at first they were thinking oh maybe they just got distracted or they stopped to rest for a little bit or and like you think about the things they were interested in photography i'm sure it was beautiful so maybe they and they're 13 and 14 maybe they're doing of course
00:09:30
Speaker
I totally love that. Or you know they found like a really pretty area and they're taking pictures of nature or something like that. Yeah that totally makes sense. So I'm sure that they were just thinking maybe time got away from them. You know again they loved being outside.
00:09:46
Speaker
so he thinks nothing of it when he calls Libby's phone and it just rings and rings because again he's like you know I'm sure she's taking pictures or they're making a video or something or even I mean gosh Rodney always jokes all the time he's because if you get too far out like there's one spot right near my house oh yeah none at all and Ronnie's always like oh we can't get service there but we can
00:10:11
Speaker
like contact somebody who's on the moon or an international space station. But yeah, so maybe he was just thinking, oh, maybe wherever they are on the trail, maybe there just wasn't service or something. Which I think would be a reasonable explanation. So he's weighed some more. After all, the girls are familiar with this area. It's a very popular hiking destination. And he had recently seen that Abby had posted
00:10:37
Speaker
a picture to her Snapchat at 2.07. So it's really not like, you know, we haven't heard anything from them in a long time. It's like an hour ago, they just posted a picture. So really what could go wrong? Right. Derek calls again, nothing.
Discovery of the Double Murder
00:10:52
Speaker
He waits some more, nothing. Finally, he can't wait any longer and begins to search on his own.
00:11:00
Speaker
According to an article called the Unsolved Delphi Snapchat Murders, Derek sets off along the trail to find the girls and on the way he actually speaks with a man in a plaid cotton shirt to ask him if he's seen the girls.
00:11:14
Speaker
And this man mentioned that he had, quote, seen two people on the bridge. So you're thinking, okay, I gave a description of my daughters and here's this guy who's saying, oh, I saw two people on the bridge. So I would assume. Yeah, so he's like, I gave a description of my daughter and her friend. They saw him on the bridge. They just got distracted. So they're on their way. It's fine, they're on their way.
00:11:33
Speaker
But he is still a little bit worried, just like I feel any family member would be. And so he calls in some other family members around 4.15 and they start a mini search party to try to locate the girls. I mean, I totally get it. Because now they're an hour late. Right. And if the whole trail from beginning to end wasn't even two hours. Right.
00:11:55
Speaker
I mean we're already close to being double the time that it should have taken them. Right, and yeah, I feel like at this point, like you said, you're an hour late and it's time that we start
00:12:07
Speaker
I think panic is setting in now. So finally they do realize something is wrong and they call the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at 5.30 p.m. to report the girls missing. They got dropped off at what, like 135? Yeah. So now we're four hours later. And the trail, they were only supposed to be on the trail for two hours. Less than two hours.
00:12:28
Speaker
So in an article called The Snapchat Murders, Abby Williams and Liberty German, over 100 searchers responded to the call and came to the area. Okay, so now you've got quite a few. Yeah, so now we're taking it serious. There's aerial searches, they're utilizing the remaining daylight hours. Oh, so this is like get and get it started. Yeah, like we're down to business. Later that same evening, authorities began trying to ping the girl's cell phones with no success.
00:12:57
Speaker
So the sheriff later states that maybe the girl's phones had died, maybe they turned them off. In 2017, that wasn't that long ago, your iPhone dies in like two hours. Especially if you don't have service. At approximately midnight, the search was called off, though volunteers continued searching throughout
Community Leads and Evidence Gathering
00:13:16
Speaker
the night. And Allison, I can only imagine the hope that one would still have in this type of situation. I'm telling you right now, I would not stop. No, yeah.
00:13:25
Speaker
I would just keep getting flashlights, whatever. I'm sure you're holding on to a hope that things will turn around, that things will be as you're praying, that you'll walk around a corner and you'll find the girls huddled under a tree. You know, in my mind, I'll be thinking like worst case scenario is one of them fell and she broke her leg and the other one's staying with her and they can't get back. That's exactly what I was thinking. That's what I would be, that's what I would try to comfort myself. And even though that would be awful, that's what I would try to be.
00:13:55
Speaker
comfort myself by saying is that maybe they were just hurt. Yeah and that when I get there that'll explain the delay. You would have to hold on to any strand of hope and I feel like in this case it's the only way that you could go on which is what we were just saying. I'm sure the families couldn't go to sleep even if they wanted to between all the prayers I'm sure they were sending up and all the searching that was going on.
00:14:19
Speaker
The official search resumed the following morning along Deer Creek, which from what I read and Googled is the creek that runs under the bridge where the girls were hiking. So this is like an extremely tall, I'm assuming abandoned like train bridge. This is what it looks like. And so they would have been hiking over that and Deer Creek from what I gather is what runs underneath the bridge that they were hiking on.
00:14:45
Speaker
At this point, everyone is still holding on to the hope that the girls were simply just lost. Yeah, I mean they could have gone off trail and then... Again, you see like a really pretty place to take a picture and you wander off the trail. Right. And you can't get back. Listen, I'm not good with directions when I have street names. I do not go into the woods. No. Because I would not make it back out. Yeah, no. No. I have to use my GPS literally everywhere.
00:15:11
Speaker
Sadly though, Allison, approximately one mile from where the two girls are believed to have vanished, searchers find two bodies on a private piece of property along Deer Creek, just north of the bridge. Police do hold a news conference on February 14th, but they won't identify the bodies that are found. Well, I think they have to, what, contact all the family first? Yeah, I think so. So, maybe. Which, this is another, like, issue I have with social media, is how many
00:15:41
Speaker
families are made aware of accidents before the police contact them because they learn about it through social media. And that infuriates me. Well, I just would never, if something happened to a family member, I would not want to hear about it first from a stranger. Yeah, because didn't Kobe Bryant
00:16:02
Speaker
Why find out about their accident from the news media? I'm pretty sure she did. Yeah, that'd be awful. And then I know personally a family back home that like the lady's cousin died in a car accident. She had three young children and she found out about it because someone took a picture of her car.
00:16:21
Speaker
as they passed the scene of the crime and posted it on Facebook. Yeah. Why would somebody post something like that on Facebook anyway? I think it's, I don't know. I keep my comments to myself.
00:16:35
Speaker
According to the Delphi murders, everything we know about the case of Abby Williams and Libby German, autopsies were conducted on the bodies. We don't really know a lot of those details. And that afternoon, Indiana State Police and the Carroll County Sheriff's Department hold another news conference and they do confirm that the bodies belong to Abby and Libby. And they say that the girls were murdered.
00:16:57
Speaker
Oh my gosh. In that same article, a police sergeant is quoted as saying, quote, there's somebody out there who did this crime and we're going to find them. And that was police Sergeant Kim Raleigh. So that same day, Indiana State Police did release a photo of a man reportedly seen on the trail around the same time that the girls disappeared.
00:17:19
Speaker
The image shows a white male with his hands in his pocket while
Libby's Key Evidence
00:17:23
Speaker
walking. He's wearing jeans, a navy blue jacket, and a hat. Wait, a picture of him. Yes. Not a sketch of him. No, a real life photograph of him. And we'll get into that a little later. Okay. So Allison, here is the picture of him.
00:17:49
Speaker
And I mean, I wouldn't say it's a very distinguishing photo. No, it looks like he has facial hair and has a hat on. And I mean, you could see a shadow from his nose, so it doesn't seem like he has a really thin nose, right? But I don't know how big because it's a little fuzzy. And he has, I would say, an old man's high pad on. I feel like those are the kinds of old men wear when they golf.
00:18:15
Speaker
When even the clothing, it's not like you can notice any brand marking on it. Or like, he's muscular. Right, yeah, because it's like this baggy sweatshirt over a t-shirt. He has dad jeans on. He does. He does have dad jeans on. But yeah, I mean, if I had to guess age, I would say
00:18:45
Speaker
40s. Yeah, if I had to guess. 40 to 50. Mm-hmm. That's exactly what I would say. Okay. Well again, we'll get into that in a moment. Allison, you mentioned where would they get a picture from and do you want to know where they get the picture from? Yes, I do. They actually get the picture from Libby. From one of the victims. Yes. Libby had the with-it-ness to take a picture of her possible assailant.
00:19:13
Speaker
which tells me that she must have gotten bad vibes or that he must have been following them or done something that would make her aware enough that he wasn't just a normal person on a hike or a walk, that this was somebody that they should. Be scared of. Right. Yeah, and so an article called Delphi Investigation, why state police say Abby and Libby's case isn't cold
00:19:42
Speaker
by Katie Cox is quoted in saying, Libby was herald as a hero by state police for having the presence of mind to begin recording.
Challenges in Identifying the Suspect
00:19:50
Speaker
I mean, that was super smart because, you know, when I'm scared, I don't even know. Oh, I would have been running. Yeah, like I don't know if I would have been like, like you said, had the awareness to start recording. So if something did happen to me, here would be this image. And again, I'm gonna tell a mom story.
00:20:12
Speaker
So when Anthony and I were engaged, I was driving to Lexington with my mom, and we have to drive from my mom's house along the Mountain Parkway, which is people that are not from here. It is like a two-lane road that is through the middle of literally nowhere, and it connects Eastern Kentucky to Central Kentucky.
00:20:34
Speaker
we just so happened to get a flat tire. And so we pulled over and I'm like on the phone with USAA, they're like roadside assistance, and she's like, well, what town are you near? And I'm like, lady, there's no town. I'm not near a town. And like I could not get her to understand, but this man pulls over.
00:20:56
Speaker
First he dropped and that's what's so sad because you don't know if this is just a nice person Right and and me I want to like I see the best in people all the time like okay This is just a nice guy So at first he just drives by and then he turns around and he pulls over and he gets out of the car my mom's like
00:21:12
Speaker
don't close your window all the way down. And so I was like, okay. And he was like, do you all need help? And at this point, I'd already called like the sheriff. And so they were on their way. And we were like, no, we're fine. And he was like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, I'm positive. And like, he's walking away. And my mom's like, okay, he had a red baseball cap on. This ear was pierced, his eyes were this color, his hair is this color. And I was like, what are you doing? And she was like, in case something happens, then they can get a sketch from all this stuff that I remember. And I'm like,
00:21:40
Speaker
Okay, Mom, you go. Get it, Mom. See, and I would have just been completely oblivious, I'm sure. Yeah, me too. Because I would have been worried about my flat ties. Yeah. And not much that was gonna cost. I was waiting, because I was late for like the Tamina Florist, and I was like, waiting. Oh, for your wedding, yeah. Yeah, it was bad. So did you catch, Allison, that quote says she began recording? Oh, yeah, not took a picture.
00:22:06
Speaker
but began. So, like we said, maybe they knew they were in danger. Allison, I can't imagine this. I feel like you and I literally worry about everything. How many videos have I sent you? Anthony making fun of me for running into the house when I go outside after dark because a car is driving by my house. And he'll be like, the scariest thing just happened. A car dropped down the subdivision.
00:22:32
Speaker
So imagine being on a trail, far from anyone else, far from help, and realizing you're being followed by a creeper. This is why I don't hike. This is why we don't like the wilderness. This is why we read books instead of going out in nature. There you go. Is that right there? But, you know, you said recording, and that makes me feel even more like he must have said something to them. Because why would you not just take a picture? Yeah.
00:22:58
Speaker
And we'll get to the recording here in a little bit. So not only were they being followed, but I'm assuming they could tell this guy is dangerous. There's literally no way that I would have been able to collect myself enough to take a picture of my killer, let alone record him. So by this point, the police are dead set on speaking to the man in the photo. Like they need to know who that dude is. Why else would that be there? Yeah, they think that this is their guy.
00:23:22
Speaker
That's what I would think. Yeah, makes sense. And just a few days after the death of Abby and Libby, police get a new lead.
00:23:29
Speaker
Okay. So on February 16th, the police get a search warrant for a home on Bicycle Bridge Road. And I feel like this is kind of like out of nowhere, but they don't make an arrest. Hmm. So the police actually say that despite the tip that led them to the house, no arrest was made. There was no one there that they suspected of any type of activity. So I wonder why they got this tip then. Or what the tip was.
00:24:00
Speaker
Yeah. As in most cases, and we talk about it every week, police withhold a lot of information from the public. And I get it because I mean, they have to be able to verify that whoever's giving them a testimony
00:24:14
Speaker
It's true. Didn't just hear it on the news. You know what I think is the most disturbing thing? Is how many people will call and say they had something to do with a crime when they didn't? Yeah, why would you say that? Why would you want to? First off, why are you breaking rules?
00:24:32
Speaker
Like if you're doing it anyways. And then why would you pretend like you did when you didn't? I know. So I get why they did it, but in some ways I always wonder, and we've talked about this, like what if they had just given this other clue as opposed to the one that they gave?
Investigation of Ronald Logan's Property
00:24:48
Speaker
Would the case be somewhere different? Why would they have caught somebody? Questions? We'll never know. But on February 22nd they release even more chilling evidence. Oh no. I don't know if I'm ready for this.
00:25:02
Speaker
The police actually release an audio clip that Abby captured on her phone. Okay, so this is something to do with the recording. Yes. Okay, we see the image. So now we have an image and a voice. Yes. For like voice recognition possibly. Yes. Okay. So we're actually going to let you, Slootowns, listen to the clip and then if you want, you can make your way over to our Facebook page to see Allison's reaction to the audio clip.
00:25:32
Speaker
And this audio clip is pretty short, but I'm gonna play it for you a couple of times. And this video you can find on YouTube and it is through WTHITV and it's called New Video and Audio from Delphi Murders.
00:25:57
Speaker
Okay, Allison, now that you have listened and our sleuthounds have listened, what do you think was being said? Okay, well I can clearly hear him say guys. Yeah. At the first part. And then it almost sounds like to me he's saying down here or downhill. And the reason why like in my head I couldn't tell is because
00:26:23
Speaker
It almost sounded to me like I've known several people who have severe hearing loss and they've had hearing aids since they were young, young and so like learning language certain sounds don't sound the same because they're not as crisp and so like the way he said hill or it could have been here and just with the way it was pronounced I don't know but that to me it could be either.
00:26:51
Speaker
And maybe it sounded like he was suffering from, or had suffered from some type of hearing loss. To me, that's what it sounded like, potentially. Good theory. After police released this clip, they received over 1,000 tips. Holy cow! Yes. Even Nancy Grace gave her opinion. She stated, and I quote, we hear that muffled down the hill, down the hill. Why was it muffled?
00:27:19
Speaker
because I think she put it in her pocket. Now they are only releasing a portion of it. Why? It could be an attack on the girls. It could even be their murders that they are not releasing to spare the families, but there's more proof on that video." End quote. So it makes me wonder what else is on the video. I mean, okay, either it's
00:27:46
Speaker
too muffled that we can't tell. And I think like because you know it says guys and then there's that like. Right. I'm wondering if that's like the phone brushing up against like her pocket or something. And we talked a lot about this with the Brandon Lawson case because a lot of the audio you couldn't tell. So it could be that it could be that again.
00:28:09
Speaker
There's something specific that's mentioned on it that they want to hold off. And so they purposefully. Didn't release that portion of it or it could be that it's so violent that it wouldn't be something that you would release to the general public. But now these people who are calling in, I wonder if they're calling in saying what they think it says or saying like recognizing the voice.
00:28:35
Speaker
But to me, what's weird about it is, I mean, obviously, like we said, she had the awareness to record this guy. He's given them the creeps. Likely, in my opinion, since she's recording it, he has previously said something to them. That was creepy, yeah. Versus just taking a picture. But what's interesting is when he says, like, guys down here, or down the hill, to me it didn't sound like
00:29:03
Speaker
It's not angry. Angry yet, yeah. It might be commanding, but not necessarily angry yet. So maybe he's using like a teacher voice when we would be like, guys, we need to get to work. I mean, unless, if he's shown a weapon, then it doesn't matter how he says something, I'm gonna be terrified. And I'm gonna do whatever he says. Exactly. That's true. But how many cases, Alison, have we covered where people have to recognize something?
00:29:32
Speaker
The curtain from Amy's name. Yep, Amy Holovick. Yep, exactly. So like if they, and they didn't release that until later. Right. So if somebody doesn't see that green curtain, they might not make that association. That's true. And I have to believe that someone out there recognizes this voice on the video.
00:29:49
Speaker
Right. There was a Delphi citizen who told Inside Edition, quote, somebody knows this voice. Somebody has to know who this guy is. We are begging you, begging you to come forward. We need to find out who has done this to our girls, end quote.
00:30:07
Speaker
And I feel like, I think that's a good point that it said like it's one of the Delphi citizens because you said this is a fairly small town. And even though the trail might have been popular. Nothing like this had happened in this town before. Right. And I feel like you would have to kind of know this trail or you would have to know this area, which would tell me that it would be somebody from that area. Or at least somebody who's familiar with the area. Exactly.
Suspect Sketches and Community Frustration
00:30:37
Speaker
As I mentioned before, Libby and Abby were found on private property less than a mile away from where they were last seen alive. So obviously they were taken off of the trail. This property was owned by Ronald Logan.
00:30:55
Speaker
And it isn't until March 17, 2017 that the Indiana State Police, the FBI, and the Carroll County Sheriff's Deputies serve a search warrant at the home of Ronald Logan, who owned that 30-acre property where they were found. Okay.
00:31:13
Speaker
So all of this is going down February 13th. The bodies are found February 14th, but it's not until March 17th that they perform a search of the whole property.
00:31:28
Speaker
How does it take a month to get a search warrant? And again, if somebody is found on my property, I'm gonna say, listen, come into my house and check it out. And I saw one article, and I don't remember now where it was, but he was reported to be at the dumpster that day, maybe while they were gone, I don't know.
00:31:53
Speaker
look too far into that article, but I just remember reading that somewhere. And I think, Allison, that oftentimes we associate a search warrant with an arrest. Right. I think that's true. And we think that just because they have a search warrant means that, hey, this guy- They have a reason. Yeah. Right. And that's not really the case. As I learned in this case, a search warrant is more of an investigative tool.
00:32:16
Speaker
Like to rule somebody out versus to prove guilt. Or like, you know, their murder happened on this property, so we need to be able- Can we find other evidence? Yeah, can we find other things on here? So I'm assuming they just wanted a better look at Logan's property, and so they get the search warrant to follow legalities, and that doesn't necessarily link him to the murders of these girls. It was just circumstance, maybe, that they found on his property. So he's never named a suspect?
00:32:42
Speaker
He is arrested way later but on other charges. Okay, so not necessarily associated with this particular.
00:32:53
Speaker
Abby Libby's family continue to advocate for them and pray that their killer is located for the next several months. But the police don't really learn any new information or at least that we know about until July 17th when the police release a sketch of the man they believed is behind this double homicide. Wait, but why do we need a sketch if we already have a video?
00:33:17
Speaker
My question as well, and at this point in my research, I even had to go back and I started double checking things, because I got a little bit confused. And then you're like, why do we need a sketch? Yeah, because I thought we already had who we thought the dude was. So the person depicted in this composite sketch is described as a white male, between 5'6 and 5'10, so literally every white male, weighing between 180 and 220 pounds. Not distinguishable? Every male.
00:33:47
Speaker
with reddish brown hair, okay, and eye color unknown. Okay, so you're describing every white dude. So I do want to talk briefly about people that were like,
00:34:01
Speaker
kind of looked at as possible persons of interest or persons of interest in this case. In September 2017, according to the Delphi murders, everything we know about the case of Abby Williams and Libby German, police arrest a man in Colorado named Daniel Nation. Who in Indiana? Yeah, they arrest him because he has expired Indiana license plates. Oh, okay.
00:34:27
Speaker
Police say he could be linked to the murder, and they call him a person of interest. And it later emerges, again, I don't really know, we talked about this before, like what does this have to do with it, but he was homeless at the time of the murder. So like, I mean, just because you're homeless doesn't mean you're gonna commit a crime. But that's what the article said. What's creepy about this, Allison, is that his ex-wife says that he looks like the police sketch, but she can't be sure.
00:34:58
Speaker
So he looks like the sketch just released, but maybe. Now, does this sketch look like the person in the... Okay, I can show you that one as well. Yeah, so this sketch is based on the image that we got from the video. And so, I mean, you're looking at it and it's like every white man that's around 40. Shaggy, a little bit hair, facial hair.
00:35:27
Speaker
Average looking yeah, and I feel like it would be easy to say like he this person kind of looks like him, but
00:35:35
Speaker
I can't be sure because this guy looks like every white male in America. So that leak quickly does fizzle out and community members began using orange light bulbs in their porch lights to honor Abby and Libby as well as to remind everyone that the killer is still in the public. That would make me not want to go on that trail. Yeah and if I were the killer that's like a constant reminder and I think that's amazing that the community
00:36:05
Speaker
stood behind the span of these families. I completely agree.
2019 Suspect Update
00:36:09
Speaker
I found one article by ABC that's quoted to say quote Indiana state police nonetheless downplayed their rest at the time and we're talking about the rest of Oh, if the guy in Colorado, Daniel nation.
00:36:25
Speaker
simply saying that they were treating it like any other possible tip. In a press conference on the one year anniversary of the killings, state police conceded, despite their interviewing nations, he was not someone that they, quote, care a whole lot about in relation to the crime, end quote. Hmm. That's
00:36:45
Speaker
An odd phrase to me too, because I feel like if someone were not a suspect, then they would say, no, we've ruled him out as a suspect. Right, I think it's weird that they say, we just don't care a lot about him. In relation to the crime. Yeah, it's weird. Weird language there. Yeah, weird phrasing.
00:37:01
Speaker
Another person that's looked at in this case is John Miller, 59, of Fort Wayne, Indiana, who was arrested in the 1988 strangulation of 8-year-old April Tinsley. Oh, so there's already here in that case a child murder. Yeah, and actually the April Tinsley case was the first ever true crime podcast that I listened to. Wow, so this came full circle for you when you were researching this. Yeah, because I recognized his name.
00:37:27
Speaker
and like the town of Fort Wayne, Indiana, because I have family that is close to Fort Wayne, Indiana. Miller lived only two hours from Delphi and looked curiously like the sketch. Again, though, this lead quickly dies out. I wonder why. You know, I didn't look too far into why he wasn't considered a
00:37:50
Speaker
like bigger person of interest, I'm not really sure. But I do. Unless they could somehow prove that he wasn't in the area. Yeah, at the time maybe he had an alibi or something. But we do have another connection made in January of 2019, so pretty recently, when Charles Andrew Eldridge, age 46, is arrested for meeting a police officer who was posed as a teenager to have sex with her.
00:38:17
Speaker
Let me ask you this and I don't know if you read anything that said it but when they found the bodies could they tell if the girls had been
00:38:26
Speaker
sexually assaulted in any way? So I jumped down the Reddit wormhole just a little bit on this case and most people believe that they were not sexually assaulted because we don't have any DNA in the case and they think if they were sexually assaulted we would have some DNA. You would have that evidence to be able to compare. Yeah, so people say that they weren't. His face, he faces multiple charges including two counts of child molestation and is currently being held without bond.
00:38:56
Speaker
So, but again, maybe not likely to be the murderer. And so the reason that he's even kind of looked at is several people call in and say, Hey, he looks like the sketch in your case, which again, is almost any white guy. And I feel like that's easy to say that.
00:39:13
Speaker
Police release the following statement as a result of the tips they get. They say, quote, It is important for the public and media to know that many similar tips and arrests of other persons alleged to be connected to the Delphi murders occur with some frequency in and outside of Indiana. Each tape
00:39:38
Speaker
Each tip, whether it receives media attention or not, is investigated for any connection to the Delphi case, end quote.
Suspect Profile and Police Assurance
00:39:45
Speaker
So this has kind of grown in everybody who's aware of this case to where now almost any tip that comes in you are like, okay, this is connected.
00:39:56
Speaker
Several years go by and the police don't release any new information that I could find. The police continue to search for the man in the photograph and they continue to respond to tips that are called in.
00:40:08
Speaker
Police follow up on every lead to try to bring justice to the family of Abby and Libby. The community continues to burn those orange porch lights. But they're still doing it. And then finally, on April 22nd, 2019, so not that long ago people, police release a new and longer audio clip.
00:40:32
Speaker
a new video and a new sketch of what they believe the murderer looked like. A new sketch. Yeah, so we had the grainy photo of the dude from Abby's phone. Right. But this new video shows the same man walking on the bridge towards the girls and Allison I actually do want to show you
00:40:55
Speaker
another picture and see what you think. Can I say something really quick before you show this to me? Yes. And it is the police, I know the public hasn't had access to this entire clip, but the police have, so why would they release a sketch that doesn't look like what the guy looks like when we get a better look?
00:41:19
Speaker
I'm wondering if maybe they have more information about the case and what they're letting people know so maybe they possibly have information that it's
00:41:28
Speaker
that the sketch was like, because it was grainy, it was somehow deceiving. So maybe the video doesn't necessarily show its face better, but because of tips and things that they've gotten. Maybe, that's the only thing, the only way that I could explain it. Yeah, because otherwise that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. So this is the last picture that's posted to the Snapchat account. Okay. And you can see,
00:41:49
Speaker
like one of the girls up front on the bridge and then to me this does look like a high bridge yes it is i would never ever ever walk across this my hands sweat thinking about it but to me it looks like in the background
00:42:05
Speaker
there's either like a shadow or that could maybe be somebody following them. And so that maybe is when they start to think like, yeah, there's somebody creepy following us at this point. But that's hard to tell. Cause I can't tell if it's like a shadow, a person or a tree. This picture does not look anything like the first picture. So, um, so that just showed her the second sketch that's released and
00:42:31
Speaker
It does not look, and I won't post these, anything at all like the first sketch, that police release. This dude looks 20 years younger. He really does, I mean this one looks like he's 18, and his nose is a little bit more slim. No facial hair. Curly hair. Yes, like curly hair instead of like shaggy hair. No bags under the eyes, which you'll see when we post these.
00:43:02
Speaker
It's a different person. It definitely looks like a different person. Even the first one barely has any lips and this one at least even though the lips are thin like you can see lips a completely different chin like a bigger chin. The original sketch. Yeah. So to me this looks like nothing like the man from the video. No. Which again makes me wonder
00:43:24
Speaker
How did they decide this is what the killer looked like? What tips came in that led police to believe that this man was the murderer?
Public Call to Action
00:43:34
Speaker
Because they look so different. So different. Well, police believe, like you said, that the killer lives or has lived in Delphi. They believe he still visits the area
00:43:48
Speaker
That's creepy. Which is creepy, but I feel like isn't that kind of common with serial killers? Right to go back to scenes of a crime? Yeah. Authorities say that he's somewhere between 18 and 40, again. Huge, huge age gap. Yes, and that he could appear older than what he is because this dude looks 18. He does, but I mean, I've had students in class who are 18, but they look like they would be older, both girls and boys. So, I mean, I do think age is,
00:44:17
Speaker
Very subjective, especially when you add in facial hair with men. I feel like I have like 12, so. But what's scary to me is I feel like the longer this goes on without an arrest, the more, but maybe this is good for police, the more almost cocky he would become, but then maybe he'll make a mistake. Make a mistake and they can catch him.
00:44:41
Speaker
According to the article that we've talked about several times, the Delphi murders everything we know about the case of Abby Williams and Libby German, Superintendent Doug Carter addressed the killer directly saying, quote, We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy, but we have.
00:45:05
Speaker
We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you We know this is about power to you. That's what I just said You want to know what we know and one day you will
00:45:20
Speaker
I love that, I love that. I know, I feel like he is sticking it to the man. Because I'm telling you then, yeah, because it almost sounds like they know they're just waiting to get that one last piece of evidence done. That they can make in a rest or something. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I love that. I was like, ooh. Yes, yes. It was good.
00:45:43
Speaker
How many cases have gone cold for years and years for a new piece of DNA to come forward and solve the case or a new witness to go to police and arrest be made? According to police, Abby and Libby's case isn't cold yet.
00:45:59
Speaker
We feel like the case is at a standstill. Mike Patti, Libby's grandfather, spoke out for the first time at a news conference at the Carroll County Courthouse on March 9, 2017, so just a few days after their disappearance. He said, quote, this horrible crime has torn a hole in our families that were never healed.
00:46:20
Speaker
It's the small things that seem to hurt the most. It's just natural to holler to them to come to dinner or in the mornings to get up and get ready for school, then expect them to come through the door after school. The silence when we don't hear their voice. I don't know exactly what happened out there that day, but I imagine there was probably an opportunity for one or both to separate and try to make a break different ways.
00:46:46
Speaker
but the girls loved each other. They were good friends. Neither one of them left each other's side." So imagine that type of love. We easily feel that love for a husband or a wife. We easily feel that love for our children, our parents, but how deep can friendship really run? For Abby and Libby, their bond lasted until the very end. Their love for one another was what kept them going in those last moments.
00:47:13
Speaker
Their love for each other was what pushed them to be brave enough to record the man who killed them. Now it's your turn. Be brave. If you know information that could help solve this case, be brave enough to go to the police. Abby and Libby are considered heroes. If you know information on this case, please call 844-459-5786 or visit abbyandlibby.org
00:47:43
Speaker
Be a hero. Stand up. Help us solve this case.
00:47:49
Speaker
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00:48:18
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.