Transcript
Speaker: Monster, king, or lover, explore the end of one dark window with us.
Speaker: Welcome to Mythic Mirror, the podcast for lovers of myth and fantasy who want to live magical, fulfilling lives. I'm your host, Mary C. Kehoe. I'm your co-host, Carolina Carter.
Speaker: And today we are talking about the second half of One Dark Window. So if you haven't read it, go read it. Come back. We will be spoilering.
Speaker: That's a word. Yes. Kara, what was your, you mentioned you wanted to read something? Yeah. I wanted to to set the stage.
Speaker: One Dark Window by Rachel Gillig. Starts off with this dedication to the quiet girls with stories in their heads, to their dreams and their nightmares.
Speaker: And chills, first of all. I get chills. And second of all, as someone who has quite a lot of nightmares, it felt important. I'm sorry you have a lot of nightmares.
Speaker: Sorry. Some are funny.
Speaker: But you know, all about embracing that shadow part. Yeah. Which might not be a shadow part, as it turns out. Well... In the book, and we're going back to the book. Oh, right.
Speaker: Yes. So, getting right into it, we did we covered the first half last week, so I think everybody... And hopefully you've read the book, but not week before last, thank you.
Speaker: Now let's really get into it, Mary. Do you want to go first or can I go first with theories, theories thoughts, feelings? You can go first. I would say first off, though, that we were correct with our theory.
Speaker: Twas the king. Yes, the nightmare is the shadow king. Dante. My second theory. Shepard King. I've heard it both ways. Now he's the shadow king.
Speaker: her ah We are only two sips of coffee in, so we're going to get sharper as this goes along. um Second theory, not so right, though. I thought he was the love interest.
Speaker: So, yeah you know what? I'm not i'm not actually going to give myself a rung yet. I think he still might be the love interest. Yeah, there's two books. so There's two don't think can happen.
Speaker: Time will only tell. to Only time will tell. Only tiny Tim can tell us.
Speaker: yeah was She, I wish he hadn't have
Speaker: Who did not die? I still think he is. couple reasons. And I'm sorry, I'm going to start with my theory. I think that the Shepard King will ultimately be the final love interest.
Speaker: He does not like Raven. I feel like every time Raven speaks, he's like... And then also... Well, okay, this this is blending with another one. The other thing that I thought was interesting, and I don't blame Raven for this, but the nightmare is, is a to use internet speak, a consent king.
Speaker: He never does anything if she doesn't say he can. um And so he gets especially upset when Raven enters her mind when she told him not to.
Speaker: he says, get out. I thought that was interesting. And then also when Raven and Elspeth have their sexy time.
Speaker: There's got to be a different way to say that. When Raven and Elspeth are together intimately, she notices that the nightmare goes away for a while. Well, yeah.
Speaker: Because that would be real weird. Hang Okay, sorry. Let me finish my two big series.
Speaker: He didn't like it, so he went away because he was like, gro gross. And he's in love with Elspeth. m Two, theory number two, because, okay so I feel like I never wrapped my head fully around Raven's sickness. He negates the power of cards?
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Is it possible that he can negate the power of the nightmare? Did the nightmare go away because... of Raven's power and in that case can Raven expel the nightmare from Elspeth?
Speaker: I don't think so. Yeah probably probably just in love with her. Now I disagree with your theory. Dun dun dun. Yeah, donen du done, done, done.
Speaker: Because, i mean, like, i see the relationship as, because he was old bo yeah when he was trapped. So he's like this old king, and he went into her head at 11, or 9, 11 years ago, when she was 9 years old.
Speaker: So, I mean, yes. Yes. To me, whenever he's talking to her, he's like, dear, like he like he's talking like a like a mean old grandpa.
Speaker: So I have issues. What do you want? Okay. ah I don't want some young strapping thing. i want a decrepit old king. a Grumpy old man.
Speaker: so let me have let me have my dream, all right? Okay. I will say, though, on your behalf, that ah not many books currently show...
Speaker: that level of care when it's not a ah the love interest? Yes, which is the other thing I loved about this book, which is that the romance seemed secondary to the story.
Speaker: Loved that. And that, I mean, if he isn't the love interest, that there is that level of care and that, like, even in his... when he's being the nightmare and we don't know if we can trust him. As the book goes on, you get to know who he is and the gentle consideration, especially at the end, I felt like When he finally does have to take over, which he knew is inevitable.
Speaker: He's so like slow, considerate, kind, like, you know what will happen. Like you're too close to the end for me to help now without taking over.
Speaker: And tells her to rest. So if he's not the live interest, that's pretty great to have. A character. i mean, you can't get much more intimate than someone living in your own mind and and having it be a ah positive thing.
Speaker: Showing that kind of love because there are so many different kinds of love and we do tend to only focus on the romance. right Which brings us to yes Ione. Ione.
Speaker: Okay, I did look this up. i like an eyeball. ahha Own, like to own i own a guitar. Ione. And then I was chagrined because it's Irish.
Speaker: it brings us to i own because Elm's so in love with her. Oh! Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's totally true. And I was thinking it comes to Ione because even when she's turned heartless, she still defends Elspeth and cares about her.
Speaker: Yeah. I am very intrigued by her. It's interesting because the least intriguing thing about her is actually Elm being in love with what he said.
Speaker: That's my, I'm getting ready for my theory. Oh God. Okay. Um, Because she, initially when I started this book, I kind of like didn't care much about her.
Speaker: Not that I didn't care for her. i was just kind of like, all right, this is a side character who's just like kind of weak, kind of vapid, kind, is very kind. Who cares?
Speaker: And then, um you know, she gets the maiden card and you're like, okay, she's very two-dimensional character. And then she starts saving Elspeth's butt and you're like, hmm.
Speaker: And then, right, I want to hear your theory. Okay, so first I did write down my reaction to something before I finished the book because i was trying to capture that.
Speaker: ah All right. So when she first talks to when they first had their actual big conversation since she's been using the maiden card and she says, you know, there's so much you don't know about powerful men. Like she something about that.
Speaker: And I was so frustrated with her. So I was like, ah yeah, she's the one who warned you against these powerful men. Like, why? um Anyway, so, yeah, I went from.
Speaker: Yeah, like, okay, I see her. She's that. she just She's there. um to being really frustrated with her and angry. And then as it went on, you start to wonder, like, hmm, remember how she said, trust me, maybe she's up to something.
Speaker: is The way she keeps defending her. And then, so my theory is that she asked for the maiden card as part of the deal. And that, because remember, we were trying to figure out why the maiden card even had anything to do with it.
Speaker: Mm hmm. So if she asked for it, not and everyone thought it was just to be pretty, but she was asking for it for the price, not the perk. She wanted, knew what she was going into and that she needed to be heartless. Heartless.
Speaker: Dang. In order to be the wolf instead of the lamb. I have chills. Yeah. i Yeah. I'm like, that's pretty cool. And it's probably all for Elspeth because she's infected and because she wanted to save her and not risk her being killed by the physician someday. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Dang. Yeah. Okay. See, that's like way cooler than her being like, maybe there's some good in him. like Yeah. Which then why didn't she just tell her? I guess. because But she would have talked her out of it. But she was trying to talk i talk her out of it anyway. You know, she would have done it harder.
Speaker: Yeah. I feel. i yeah I think she could have let her in on that. But I mean, of course, then the reader doesn't get the slow realization. But. Right, and my slow realization also being that Elspeth is judging her pretty harshly when I'm, and granted, Elspeth didn't really have a choice ah regarding the nightmare entering her head. However, she is making the same choice of sacrificing herself for power when she feels helpless.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And I want to what's hard Elspeth doesn't know like she's never met someone with the maiden card before. So you just know that the person becomes heartless.
Speaker: You don't know like, OK, how much does that change you? And then so when she's and then she's only ever really seen her with other people. hmm.
Speaker: So ah can see her. wondering, you know, is she even the person that I love? Like how much has this card changed her? Which really frustrated me during the chalice scene because it seems like she should have known something was wrong and off.
Speaker: When she said that she was like glassy eyed. And I just feel like there's just been a couple times in the book where I feel like she hasn't been very clever. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, that the chalice scene. She's not being wary, clever, or good.
Speaker: You're just supposed to be clever. Be wary, be clever, be good. Yeah, that's If you're person that you've known your whole life is acting weird and glassy-eyed, maybe they're under a spell. Yeah, yeah. It's not just the maiden card. She hasn't been glassy-eyed before. right Yeah, I did...
Speaker: I really wanted her to figure out a way through that chalice card scene. Yes. in a In a clever way. um Like i I wanted it to be as hard as it was because the cards need to have power. But I was a little disappointed with how that ended and how it kind of felt like the reason it happened was so that Raven did go into her mind even though he'd promised not to to in order to help her.
Speaker: Same. no one and just Raven was trying to help her. The nightmare was helping her. like just has to be It's the truth but just has to be framed right? And I'm like you have so much help. You literally have an ancient voice in your head helping you. like Just chill for a second and figure it out.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah That was that was kind of the only scene that disappointed me. I was wondering if it's building towards a scene in the second book where she's able to do it. Maybe.
Speaker: Yeah, the hopefully. That'd be cool. oh Hopefully. Hopefully. deeply disappointed. edit Okay, well, then i my next thing that the part of this book that broke my heart into pieces was that for chapters and chapters, they're scheming about how to steal the well card from her father. And he just comes in and gives it to her. And it's like the fact that that never crossed her mind.
Speaker: And I'm like, see, you have been too hard on your dad this whole time. He so clearly loves you. He so clearly is doing his best. And like, yeah, that she was literally just willing to fight him, steal from him. And it never crossed her mind that he would just be willing to give it to her. and Yeah. It hurt my heart.
Speaker: Yeah. I don't think she's ever, I mean, it's hard because he's married to very cruel person. Yeah. And so especially as a kid, you're going to think like, well, you know, he's chosen this cruel person over me.
Speaker: hmm. So I understand like some of her reaction being that hurt little kid. But yeah, it is hard because reading it, and when you're when you're reading outside of of of it, you can so clearly see how much he loves her.
Speaker: Right. And speaking of just framing the truth or framing the words correctly, even though Raven could have lied, he still just framed it.
Speaker: Yeah, he gave her an excellent example. He said, I was about the king's business, which it's like he literally was. Right. He was doing what the king's trying to do and what he should be doing correctly. Okay, should we pause for Discworld Delight?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: YouTube guests is say Carpe Jugulum. TikTok guesses, also carpe jugulum, also lords and ladies. It is indeed carpe jugulum.
Speaker: Or seize. Seize the throat. Or to be more accurate, jugular. Jugular. Beautiful. Good job, everybody. Okay.
Speaker: Ready? Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Aaron handed the king his coffee and said, I believe Lord Vetinari said, never do anything until you hear the screams. However, Ardent is not one to come back helmet in hand to say, sorry, there's too much pride there by half.
Speaker: Favorite, least favorite thing about fantasies and world building is the swears that they have to come up with, you know? Um, and And by least favorite, I do mean that with a huge amount of fondness, but just the trees.
Speaker: But it's also funny because they dropped the F-bomb a couple times in this book too. So we still have that word, but also trees. they? Oh, that's funny. At least we three swears.
Speaker: I didn't notice with this book, but some books I start reading, I guess it's the way it's used and how often because I was just reading one book where it was like, especially with two of the characters, every time they talked to each other, was like every other sentence had the F word.
Speaker: And it just felt like this doesn't, this is pulling me out of the story. Or I don't know, there's one I was reading recently, I can't remember, but for some reason it was like really taking me out. And I really think it was just like, they just replaced God with gods.
Speaker: She was like, oh, gods, no, let it not end like this. And Emma was like... I think what took me out is I was like, I feel like even if there are multiple gods, you would still grow an attachment to one and you'd call out one. like they would just be this like just cause it And I think it might be because they never like built out.
Speaker: So it felt half-baked kind of? Yeah, i was just like, all right, all you did was add an S. lyn Right, like it doesn't affect any other part of their life. It's just this one word.
Speaker: And I get it. I mean, writing's hard. So I've got, ah I too have something to read. And this was the moment when I trusted the nightmare. When I let go of any last questions of like, yeah, but maybe this is all, he's all just manipulating her.
Speaker: And ah this is when the when the boy who's been found to be infected is, is being taken and his parents are being forced into the woods and it's all very terrible.
Speaker: And the nightmare, his, he gives a rhyme, which as you said, chills, uh, So he says, when the shadows grow along, when our names turn to dust, what we loved, what we hated will spoil to rust.
Speaker: All will be forgotten, save one truth unshaken. What did we do when the children were taken?
Speaker: Yeah, that one got me. And yeah, I was like, oh, yeah, he's a good guy. That one got me too, because i was like I was worried she would do something and I was just like, don't do it. Just like lay low.
Speaker: you are and You are almost finished with your quest. It sucks. It's horrible, but like don't ruin it now. And then he said that and I was like, damn.
Speaker: He's right. Yeah, me too, actually. Trees. And I think, but trees. I think part of that is, like, in a book, you kind of guard yourself against you. Like, okay, yeah, the bad things that kind of happen. We've heard about this. Okay, now a bad things happening. And you kind of, like, depersonalize. And like, okay, ah his parents will be taken to the woods and they're not going to survive and, and,
Speaker: He'll be taken up to the prison. But maybe maybe we can save him later in the prison. But like just hold. Don't do anything stupid right now. Stuff happens in Blender. all right And then he says that. And you're like, oh no. We gotta do something right now. And he yeah and very interestingly...
Speaker: it did not take really any convincing to get Elm to help her. He was like, you know what? You're right. And that was when I fell in love with the character of Elm. Cause I, I think,
Speaker: know he's a is it ah I just like him. I like that he doesn't like Elspeth. I think that makes him clever. And then then that scene too, I was like, okay, like this is a good character.
Speaker: um My toxic trait is that I never distrusted the nightmare. Not from the moment this book began. i was like, obviously that's the good guy. Maybe the love interest.
Speaker: Dark, scary monster with fangs? Yes. Oh, he's actually an old man? Even better. ah He's not old, though, because he died young.
Speaker: And he's just sort of existed in this. But why, when she talks about him, she sees this old guy, this old king, old knight the...
Speaker: It just says a night in gold. You read gold and thought old. ah No, I swear. she sees an old man.
Speaker: Well, I'm going to be able to find it. you'll You'd be able to find it better in a real book. All right. Correct us, dear readers. Is he old or has he existed in this mid-40s, early 50s range for the last hundreds of years?
Speaker: How is she? have no idea. Who cares? 21? All
Speaker: right.
Speaker: She's wise beyond her years. Yeah, because she's had an old man living in her head since she was nine. Yeah, lucky baby ducky. Clearly. Clearly.
Speaker: Clearly. Oh, and on that note of the the bad guys, very disappointed that Hothrowen did not die. I'm like, come on.
Speaker: The Nightmare took over and it couldn't kill him? I mean, I guess she you know pushed him out a window, did her best, but still, wish he was dead. He, she, the Nightmare purposefully did not kill him because he knew that the king would work with him having just killed his tool.
Speaker: But if he had actually killed his son, then It would be a lot harder to make the deal. And his tool. Oh, that was a theory I was wrong about. I thought Raven was going to sacrifice himself to save his brother.
Speaker: Of course, the evil physician is infected. And that's who they were going to sacrifice. But like, of course. Could not get any evil lure.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. The whole time he's talking. Just like how? How? how can you How did you work that out in your brain?
Speaker: And maybe he just wanted to survive. Yeah. And enjoys it and doesn't care. He's dead. We'll never find out. Who cares? Who cares? All right. So on to the theory that is not mine, but that I really love.
Speaker: Okay. So i I watched a review of this book after writing all my notes. And this is by Rachel Terry. So she has a YouTube channel and is also an independent author.
Speaker: So her theory, and she said she couldn't find it anywhere else. And I had noticed how, you know, like kind of the emphasis on the, there like when Elspeth and Raven are talking about being a highwayman and, you know, the highwayman always means the hangman. There's this, there's this thing about Raven being the highwayman.
Speaker: So her theory is that this is she that the author also named Rachel had a this is kind of an homage to the poem The Highwayman. Like she wove things in that have to do with that book. or I mean that poem. and Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And as she was talking, i yeah, as she talked, was like, oh yeah, i didn't even think about that. So how you mentioned Ione calling her Bess is her nickname.
Speaker: Pess is the name of the girl on the palm. And she's blessed my, the black eyed daughter. I know. yeah and she, she was talking about Lorena McKenna's song. I'm like, I can't believe I didn't even think about it.
Speaker: Like how often have we s sung that song? I'm so upset. with And then with him riding back to the castle and her screaming to warn him away.
Speaker: going to I know. And, and there's even the scene where she's looking down right before he leaves. The last time she sees him, she's like on the stairway and she's leaning through the, then he like reaches up and I think he like touches her hair or something. It's like he, she's below, she's above and he's below. And it's like the, um, the scene from the poem.
Speaker: I can't believe neither of us thought of that. and that is I know. Very good job, Rachel Terry. can't. That's brilliant.
Speaker: I can't listen to that song without crying, and I'm even kind of tearing up right now. You like Raven better now, don't you? Yep. ah
Speaker: ah To be clear, I didn't dislike him. No, I know. He's just not an old man and therefore subpar. Well, and you get to know just by the fact that he's inside her head or the reader's closer to the nightmare than Raven sooner, even though some of us don't trust him or didn't.
Speaker: Fools. Fools, all of us. Absolute fools. Not me. Not me. I've got an excellent sense of trust.
Speaker: Which is funny because now I'm reading a book where she can hear both the deceased voice of her. um her She's a paladin. And so the guy who was the paladin who was training her She can hear him in it her head and the demon who um it was the reason the her teacher is dead is also in her head. So I know I picked it right after this book. I picked up another book where and this time it's a demon and and he ain't good.
Speaker: was like, here's ah here's a clear difference. a Although he is funny. As a lot of demons are. can forgive a lot if you're funny.
Speaker: Although sometimes he's just annoying. So I can't forgive annoying and evil. Speaking of which, I did look online to see people's reactions and I was curious. I think you and I are both fans of the rhyming.
Speaker: But some people were very turned off by the nightmares rhyming. that I should have asked you. How did you feel about the nightmares rhyming? I liked it. I did get a little, not, I wasn't frustrated with the rhyming. I liked the rhyming, but I did wish he was a little bit more, like he knew all this stuff.
Speaker: Why didn't he tell her? She didn't ask. Yeah, but she does. Like, come on. He's a very private person, Mary. I know, but why didn't he tell her about her? a man entitled to his secrets?
Speaker: Tell her about her. Sure, he didn't help unless she asked, but he didn't say like, hey, you know when I do that, that's hastening your end. Like he could have said that because it's a prophecy.
Speaker: So not much he could have done about that. Oh, well. So rhyming I liked. being Telling her a little bit more would have been nice.
Speaker: Sure. I also think so some people didn't grow up having their dad read poetry. So that's why they don't like the rhyming. um Mary, my final question for you. How did you feel like vibe wise, this book was at all similar to yours that will be coming out?
Speaker: Yeah, it felt a little, it felt similar in Kind of the aspect of it being a closed off society
Speaker: and things things going wrong that you don't necessarily know about right away. I think that... The evil of blunder is a little more outright than what is going on in my book.
Speaker: Right, which I don't think this makes... Nope, no spoilers. Which I think makes the evil in your book a little more insidious. And there's one other similarity, but I can't say because it is a spoiler.
Speaker: It's the that the to control people. you
Speaker: Which I love. i love that. I think that's very important. So... This is a duology. he You ready to read the next one next?
Speaker: Yeah. Let's do it. You all, my dear readers, we will be reading Two Twisted Crowns next. Do read along with us. You have two weeks.
Speaker: Two weeks. And then we'll read the first half. Why? Because it's summer and we are busy. But we are thriving.
Speaker: Speaking of thriving, what is your spark of the week? All my flowers are blooming right now. have a cute little flower box and my little flowers out back are doing well. And every single day they make me happy.
Speaker: Yay. Mary, what was your spark of the week? All right, so this one is that i part of my car stopped working. it was terrible. And it was something that had stopped working on my last car.
Speaker: So I knew it was going to be about like $2,000 if that was what the problem was. And fortunately, it is covered in the extended warranty.
Speaker: And the guy said it was the fastest the warranty like request had been approved ever. and So I just felt very lucky. Look who just got up.
Speaker: Oh, hi. Good morning.
Speaker: he says it's breakfast time. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: opposite want say hello order to key key We don't get to see you as often. This is the first time actually you've graced us with your presence. My nosies. And with that very important piece of information, we're grateful to be spiraling through the universe with all of you. It's not always easy, but no good story ever is.
