Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: We are on episode 108.
Speaker: I'm Josh Roop.
Speaker: With me, my co-captain, as always.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: I almost blanked on our intro.
Speaker: We've done 108 episodes, and I've almost blanked on how to do this.
Speaker: Almost blanked.
Speaker: It's all good.
Speaker: It's all good.
Speaker: Holy crap.
Speaker: And tonight, we're going to be talking about the magic of Foo Fighters.
Speaker: And Scott, I know you ordered one, right?
Speaker: I did.
Speaker: I ordered a premium and I ordered that through Zach and Nicole Manning at flipping out pinball.
Speaker: Uh, they've always been really good and I am super excited because I ordered the rush shooter rod that glows, which is the star man from 2112, which is awesome.
Speaker: And I also got the, or at least I, I placed an interest in getting the topper.
Speaker: So I'll have the gears grinding away and hopefully the cats won't jump up there and get smushed a little bit because they love walking around on the toppers.
Speaker: But yeah, contact Zach and Nicole.
Speaker: They've always been really great to work with and yeah, for all your pinball needs.
Speaker: You know it.
Speaker: And I got a pro on the way too, and it should be here in
Speaker: like two months.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: You're probably going to get yours sooner than mine.
Speaker: So, oh yeah.
Speaker: Mine was supposed to be in June.
Speaker: Uh, the production schedule got pushed back just a little bit by two weeks, but, uh, it sounds like we're looking still the beginning of June.
Speaker: So yeah, I, I'm still happy.
Speaker: So I may, I I'm okay with waiting a little bit, but enough of us talking about flipping out.
Speaker: We have a special guest on tonight.
Speaker: The man that goes by number one, formerly number one in our hearts.
Speaker: No, he is currently number one in our hearts.
Speaker: Is he currently number one in our hearts?
Speaker: Well, he's number one in my heart.
Speaker: He's killing it with Foo Fighters code.
Speaker: He's killing it with Pin Clash.
Speaker: He's just killing it.
Speaker: So if you want to all welcome, we've got Mr. Raymond Davidson with us.
Speaker: Hello.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: See, I like having Ray on because he actually has a black rose also, and he loves black rose like I do.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So we can always talk about all the magic of black rose and the depth of the code of black rose, which is non-existent.
Speaker: Hey, I was actually just going to say it's actually much deeper than people know.
Speaker: There's actually.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That was one of the first games where I actually went online and read this rule sheet.
Speaker: It was pretty long and it details the like seven different canon awards.
Speaker: the multi balls, the hidden treasure, you know, there's the jackpot there.
Speaker: There's actually a lot more in there than you, than you think.
Speaker: And I don't know.
Speaker: I have a soft spot for it, especially for a 1992 game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It is exceptionally deep for something that was intended to be on location and really a coin drop game.
Speaker: Fun fact, Brian Eddy did the software on it.
Speaker: So yeah, currently at Stern Pinball.
Speaker: So yeah,
Speaker: over lunch, you know, me and him would talk and, and, and talk about, you know,
Speaker: man, I loved your work on Black Rose.
Speaker: Kind of hit him, like, you know, blindsided him, and he's like, oh, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: That's hilarious, because he probably doesn't get that very often.
Speaker: It's like, I love your medieval madness, I love your attack for Mars, and it's, you know, he gets the occasional shadow, but I highly doubt he gets Black Rose.
Speaker: That's the playfield design, though.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: So what you're saying is he did the rules for it.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Which is, I mean, that's a different thing.
Speaker: Now, the...
Speaker: The thing that I love talking about with you, Raymond, is that you have such enthusiasm for rules that I am still on the pro level.
Speaker: I'm not on the premium or LE level of understanding code.
Speaker: But every time I talk to you, I was like, I don't understand what this thing is doing.
Speaker: And I'll text you occasionally.
Speaker: I'm like, can you explain this to me a little bit?
Speaker: And he's like, oh, yeah, it's this.
Speaker: Oh, and by the way, if you do this, this, this, you can do that, that, that.
Speaker: Simple.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's just a cascading effect, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and you know, it's funny because like a lot of people like, oh, I'm hard up for cash.
Speaker: And, you know, sometimes budgets are a little tight.
Speaker: But if you want to, you could go the Raymond route.
Speaker: It sounds like you won your Foo Fighters recently, right?
Speaker: You got to tell us about this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The North American Pinball Championships, otherwise known as Nationals.
Speaker: happened at the district 82 and in De Pere a few months ago and I took it from Escher me and him battled in the finals yeah he had a couple of rough games but you know sometimes you just got to do a little bit better than your opponent and I I managed to hang in there and I got I won it so I won a stern pro of my choice and I chose Foo Fighters nice
Speaker: No bias at all, right?
Speaker: You're like, this game's probably the number one game.
Speaker: It's going to battle out Godzilla for the top spot.
Speaker: Well, at least rules-wise, right?
Speaker: So, Ray, when did you get pulled in on the rules on this game?
Speaker: And walk me through how you're going to approach a rule set and incorporating storyline, incorporating songs.
Speaker: How does that all work in your mind?
Speaker: Yeah, I think I basically just rolled right off of Rush, right on to Foo Fighters.
Speaker: And basically, the outline was kind of made of like, these are the modes.
Speaker: We kind of have an idea of what to do with
Speaker: But nothing set in stone, really.
Speaker: And then, like, the Overlord's going to have something.
Speaker: He has three different songs.
Speaker: So he's going to do something there.
Speaker: You know, Area 51, a multiball, the wizard mode.
Speaker: So all that was kind of already all laid out.
Speaker: And I just had to go and kind of fill in the gaps and actually, you know, implement all the different features.
Speaker: Kind of like how it was when I joined Rush and when I joined Zeppelin.
Speaker: where there's an outline and I just go in and just, you know, fill in all the details.
Speaker: Well, and I'm glad that you mentioned, you know, Rush, Zeppelin, Avengers.
Speaker: You've got your name attached to those four games.
Speaker: You have not worked for a consistent designer yet.
Speaker: You've been bouncing around.
Speaker: How was this process working with Jack Danger versus Richie or Borg or even Ellen?
Speaker: Yeah, it's been really fun working with Jack.
Speaker: He's really easy to just message and he'll also, you know, message me and, and Tanya will join in.
Speaker: We'll have little mini meetings of, you know, Hey, I was thinking this could be cool.
Speaker: You know, that sort of thing.
Speaker: When we have kind of like a problem that we need to solve, we just all huddle and we all throw our ideas out.
Speaker: You know, I'll throw my ideas, Jack for his Tanya will kind of, you know, wrangle them all together and maybe add one of his ideas.
Speaker: And, and we all just kind of blend together.
Speaker: And it kind of shows in the game because you see a very approachable game with some nuances, but not all the sophisticated complications thrown at you all up front.
Speaker: You kind of have to dive into it.
Speaker: And if you don't know any of that stuff, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker: You're still beating cities, starting multi-balls, getting Fubat parts.
Speaker: Whether you know how you got them or not, you're getting them.
Speaker: So that's exciting.
Speaker: And the game just kind of all flows together really well in a good package.
Speaker: So when you were approaching code, there is the danger of the, you know, it's been described as chopping wood.
Speaker: It's like, it's not really interesting.
Speaker: You just keep doing the same thing and you slowly get more and more points, but it's in a very methodical way.
Speaker: How do you avoid that sort of approach to a rule set and make it exciting so you can blow it up?
Speaker: Yeah, I'm always looking to avoid any sort of, you know, exploits that would be boring.
Speaker: Like, you never want the thing you should do to be the thing you don't want to do, right?
Speaker: If those two are in opposition with each other, your game's not going to have as much legs to stand on.
Speaker: You know, you're not going to be coming back to it as much.
Speaker: So, you know, things like examples in Foo are the modes...
Speaker: you have to beat them to qualify the wizard modes.
Speaker: Cause I didn't want people just shooting a shot and then trapping up and waiting for the timer to go down and then go on to the next mode and wait for the timer to go down.
Speaker: But that led to some conflicts of, well, the modes, you know, they're kind of hard to beat.
Speaker: You know, how long should they be?
Speaker: We want people to be able to experience everything.
Speaker: So we ended up coming up with a nice compromise of your first mode, you're going to get five shots spotted.
Speaker: And then your second mode, you're going to get four shots spotted.
Speaker: And then three shots.
Speaker: So someone who plays a mode, the first mode they play, you can probably beat that mode.
Speaker: You might not get it your first try.
Speaker: But the modes all carry their progress as well.
Speaker: So you can just go right back in.
Speaker: And that was kind of a cool thing too, is it was challenging to build a rule set around a game where you can pick your modes.
Speaker: I know Avengers does that.
Speaker: And it's very challenging because you have to make sure there's not just one mode.
Speaker: Everyone's always going to want to pick.
Speaker: So to kind of counteract that, I like to have the modes...
Speaker: have different pros and cons depending on what game state you're in.
Speaker: So if you have a bunch of shot multipliers, this mode might be good.
Speaker: Or if you are about to start a multiple, this mode might be good.
Speaker: Or if you have nothing lit and your multiples are miles away, this might be the right mode for that.
Speaker: So that's kind of what you have to aim for and balance when you're designing the rules for the modes.
Speaker: Now with Insider connected,
Speaker: Do you get audits back for how many modes are started and how many modes are completed?
Speaker: And I guess what information do you get back?
Speaker: Because I could imagine that being amazingly valuable for you as the designer to say, oh, well, that mode is being played way differently than I thought it was going to be.
Speaker: Yeah, I definitely watch a lot of streams to make sure there's nothing out of whack.
Speaker: And if you just look on the game, you can view audits.
Speaker: And so anything you can view in the game audits is something that might get dumped after a show.
Speaker: And we can look at what everybody did.
Speaker: It's like, oh, nobody in the entire show started this mode.
Speaker: Maybe that's okay.
Speaker: Maybe it's too hard.
Speaker: That sort of thing.
Speaker: And then another valuable thing is achievements.
Speaker: If there's an achievement nobody's getting, we can check on it or maybe make it a little easier.
Speaker: you know, that sort of thing.
Speaker: So do you get feedback?
Speaker: You brought up shows and audits, which is perfect because they're basically, you know, the games are roughly connected to you guys.
Speaker: You may have a distributor that brings them.
Speaker: But what about like a game that is put on Joe's bar in Cheyenne, Wyoming?
Speaker: Like, are you able to see how it's played at different locations with Insider Connected?
Speaker: Well, the achievements are all connected, so you can see people's achievements and stuff.
Speaker: I don't know about the game audits.
Speaker: I can't speak to that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I noticed there, I mean, this has obviously got a lot of nuance from...
Speaker: From Deadpool, a little bit from Jurassic Park.
Speaker: Did you use some of that code structure from those games as well?
Speaker: Because I noticed with Van, it's kind of similar to map, right?
Speaker: You shoot the white arrows and it spells out what you need to.
Speaker: Is there any kind of other similarities, I guess, to other codes and something that you tried to emulate?
Speaker: Or are you trying to... I don't know.
Speaker: I know that like... Yeah, I mean, the Van was definitely right out of Jurassic Park.
Speaker: That was actually my idea to spell Van.
Speaker: Cause I thought of Jurassic park and I'm like, huh, you know, that's the white arrows reminded me of Jurassic park.
Speaker: And then I was like, Oh, you're spelling map.
Speaker: What could you spell?
Speaker: Oh, duh, man, you're trying to light the van.
Speaker: So yeah, that was a good catch there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm trying to think if there's other things, but I, I kind of blend, you know, whenever I need inspiration for rules, I'll think of other games and kind of incorporate their progressions and things, ideas, ideas,
Speaker: I guess the Overlord is kind of like Rush time machine multiballs where there's three different multiballs from the same sort of device, but each one is different.
Speaker: So, you know, all of my life multiball and then Monkey Wrench multiball and then the Pretender multiball.
Speaker: So that kind of worked really well in Rush where you're in the time machine and you can do any of these things.
Speaker: you know, multi balls.
Speaker: It's a little different food because you always go in the same order, but also on food, each one is sort of better than the one before it.
Speaker: Like there's more jackpots, you get more balls in play, that sort of thing.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Is there any throwback games that you use code for or like some idea?
Speaker: Because like it's one thing I love about Jurassic Park.
Speaker: I don't know if people realize it or not, but you hit the five shots and then the spinner's lit for those five shots and you hit it.
Speaker: It's just like in stars from Stern.
Speaker: You hit the five stars and you can hit the spinner for big points.
Speaker: I don't know if there's some kind of inspiration that you pull from what some of those older games too.
Speaker: I mean, you know, there's the in-lane targets that Jack came up with.
Speaker: I think he said he got those from Heavy Metal Meltdown or something.
Speaker: Okay, yeah.
Speaker: But rules-wise, you know, the older games are just, they're different than the modern games, so it's hard to just port rules directly from them.
Speaker: But, you know, there is a super spinner in the game, so when that's active, it's worth more.
Speaker: There's... Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker: It's hard to think of any direct parallels.
Speaker: No worries.
Speaker: Which mode do you usually like to start with?
Speaker: I usually like New Orleans just because kind of all the shots are available.
Speaker: It's kind of a nice one to get your feet wet.
Speaker: And it's good with multiball because of that.
Speaker: That or Seattle is kind of similar.
Speaker: but it really just depends on what I'm feeling.
Speaker: New York is fun.
Speaker: If you just want to rip spinners, like my favorite combo in the game is the center spinner to side ramp over and over again.
Speaker: So from really dialed into that, uh, New York can be good, but yeah, I mean, I like all the modes.
Speaker: Did you get to put any Easter eggs of yourself in from like Seattle or anything like that?
Speaker: No, I don't think, I don't think, uh, I have any, anything hiding.
Speaker: And the party pooper, um,
Speaker: It'd be cool though, just cause you know, that was your hometown and whatnot.
Speaker: And anyhow, you could have a Dave girl, give you a shout out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Only Seattle friends.
Speaker: It is cool that Seattle is on there though.
Speaker: As a city.
Speaker: I'm happy with that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We, as typical, when we design games, we have the pro premium in LA and you have the, it's interesting because sometimes you,
Speaker: sometimes the pro kind of wins out as the preferred game.
Speaker: Sometimes the premium wins out in the preferred.
Speaker: And I'll, I'll use an older one like Metallica.
Speaker: I would say the, the vast majority of the people who get Metallica, they tend to get the pro, but there are other games where the premium far, far and away is the winner for popularity.
Speaker: So yeah,
Speaker: when you're designing a game, you don't know which one is going to win out.
Speaker: It sounds, sounds to me like it's kind of 50, 50 on this one, which is nice.
Speaker: I'm staring at a screen with two people and one, one is one has a pro order and one has a premium on.
Speaker: And you have a pro, but then again, you want it.
Speaker: So yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I'm sure they'd let you upgrade for, for, for an upcharge.
Speaker: So yeah,
Speaker: Yeah, so how does that affect your mindset for the rules and saying, well, I don't want it to drastically affect how we play the game, but there is something different with the premium that has the upper play field.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, that's a great way to describe it.
Speaker: I like to have clear benefits and uniqueness to having the premium, but not have things that are
Speaker: totally different or you feel like you're missing half the game you know with a pro so for like the premium area 51 is in both both models but on the premium you know it all involves the upper play field so you got to hit the little targets and the orbit and the ramp and the stuff but on the pro uh we don't have an upper play field so we just kind of once you hit the ramp enough times it'll it'll start and so you're you're kind of missing out on the pro that that satisfaction of like
Speaker: lining it up and then hitting the upper target and you know, you're starting area 51.
Speaker: Cause on the pro it just sort of happens and you might not know when or why.
Speaker: So like as a premium owner, you can be like, yeah, I really liked that experience.
Speaker: I'm happy to get the premium and get that.
Speaker: But as a pro owner, you, once you've learned that you're like, well, I have the same opportunities as a premium player.
Speaker: It's just not quite as, as fancy and not, and you know, warm and fuzzy.
Speaker: But then also, in addition to just the way, kinetically, the premium will have different kind of scoring opportunities.
Speaker: Like in modes, you can shoot the upper play field to spot shots.
Speaker: So on the pro, you might hit the right ramp and then you're forced to immediately either choose the left ramp or the center.
Speaker: But maybe one of those aren't lit for what mode you're in.
Speaker: But on a premium, every mode, you can spot shots one time each on both of those.
Speaker: If you work the right ramp into your equation, you can kind of right ramp, upper loop, you know, then come down, hit some more things, go back up there, hit the other one and kind of changes the strategy.
Speaker: And then similarly in the area 51 multiball, the way you light your super jackpot is up there.
Speaker: So you can actually hold off on getting the super jackpot or just focus entirely on regular jackpots because on the pro, you
Speaker: Once, like on the premium, you can always build your super jackpot up top.
Speaker: And so therefore down below, you're always getting jackpots.
Speaker: But on the, sorry, did I say pro or premium?
Speaker: On the premium.
Speaker: On the pro, once you kind of get eight jackpots, then your super jackpot becomes available.
Speaker: And now you're building your super and you can't actually get regular jackpots.
Speaker: So that's actually a pretty big scoring change where,
Speaker: On the Pro, it's like jackpot, jackpot, jackpot.
Speaker: Okay, my Super's ready.
Speaker: Super.
Speaker: On the Premium, it's kind of chaos.
Speaker: It's like jackpots down here, Super up here, building up here.
Speaker: So that dynamic is totally different.
Speaker: But like I said, you're not really missing anything either way.
Speaker: It's just different.
Speaker: And yeah, I think that's the way to go.
Speaker: And then, of course, not from a software perspective, but from a design perspective, there's always...
Speaker: all the cool, you know, sculpts and things.
Speaker: And that little magnet under the Overlord is actually kind of fun too.
Speaker: It choreographs.
Speaker: We actually made it kind of synchronized with the video.
Speaker: So when you get captured and the tractor beam comes on, especially on the LE with the expression lights, it really looks like a tractor beam.
Speaker: And then it starts shaking and the ball starts going like with the video.
Speaker: It's pretty cool.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: There is a lot of cool, those little quirky just...
Speaker: Like with the pro, like there's no upper play field, like you said.
Speaker: And so the plastics are actually layered and they say like under construction, right?
Speaker: And just, it's cool that I feel like there's a lot with this game that you guys just took a little, just,
Speaker: took the material and just tweaked it a little bit and just made it just that that much better and and obviously it's shining through like it's just the automatic winner we've had several pinball machines released in the last three months if you didn't know that you might be under a rock right but crazy month for sure but it's crazy because it's like what's everyone's favorites besides foo fighters because we know you're going to say foo fighters this game has been received very very well i i hope this is probably a
Speaker: made you pretty happy right right ray like you've have you had any negative feedback on this game so far not particularly no i mean everyone's been loving the heck out of it and uh it's cool to be part of something everyone's so excited about it like and and everyone's like asking me rules questions and i'm like yes i will answer them like yes what do you what do you want to know
Speaker: It's great.
Speaker: And I guess it's probably a little bit different than some of the previous projects you may have worked on.
Speaker: So, but I don't know.
Speaker: It's just great to see such a game that's, that's, it's loved.
Speaker: I did find it funny though.
Speaker: Like what was it?
Speaker: Dennis Creasel.
Speaker: It's like, finally a game, hand game that Ray's not on.
Speaker: And then they announced you on because everyone just assumed it was just going to be Tanya, but they never realized.
Speaker: So they're like, Oh, yep.
Speaker: Bray's on another band game.
Speaker: Are you going to throw your hat in for a game outside of a band anytime soon?
Speaker: Are you just happy with the bands?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's just the way it's all been lining up so far.
Speaker: You never know what's next.
Speaker: So this is... I'm guessing here, this is probably the band that you have been most familiar with.
Speaker: Of all the bands that have been released, I guess.
Speaker: Actually, it's probably the one I was least familiar with.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I never really listened to Foo Fighters before working on this.
Speaker: I mean, I had heard, I think Learn to Fly was kind of the only song I knew I knew.
Speaker: Oh, not the early Foo Fighters too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, is it?
Speaker: I think that's off their first album, isn't it?
Speaker: That probably explains why I know it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was a huge departure from Nirvana because it was kind of like, hey, this is a light, you know, a light fun thing.
Speaker: And a lot of Nirvana songs were less fun.
Speaker: Yeah, I guess there's not as much girl screaming in in learn to fly as some of the later songs, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it kind of went for volume.
Speaker: So I, I would say that has the theme resonated with, I mean, I am solidly in the, the dad rock era, right?
Speaker: Like all the bands that you guys have released.
Speaker: I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm slightly younger than the Led Zeppelin era, totally in the, the rush era.
Speaker: And, uh, and I have a friend who wants a Bon Jovi pinball machine.
Speaker: So if you want to do that next, he'd really appreciate that.
Speaker: But this is actually the, uh, of the band of the.
Speaker: Band pins that have been released.
Speaker: This is the one I'm, I'm least familiar with too.
Speaker: Uh, I, I actually don't know too much about Foo Fighters.
Speaker: but I do appreciate the energy they bring.
Speaker: So what kind of, what kind of feedback have you been receiving from, cause you talked to a lot of people playing pinball and there's a lot of people in their twenties now, as opposed to us, 40 year olds.
Speaker: What do they think about the theme?
Speaker: It seems to be a big hit, especially on location.
Speaker: People are playing the heck out of it.
Speaker: And so usually theme is, is one of the biggest thing that draws you to a game online.
Speaker: at a location.
Speaker: So the fact that people are playing, it means it's a theme people really resonate with in that crowd.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: And, and I did know a lot of people that were, when I mentioned, I worked on the Foo Fighters pinball there, they immediately like there's a Foo Fighters pinball.
Speaker: I'm like, yeah.
Speaker: And then I, you know, go, go buy one or go play one.
Speaker: So it's yeah, it's been pretty good.
Speaker: More per preferably go buy one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And to answer your question, Scott, it was actually off their third album, Nothing Left to Lose.
Speaker: Their first one was self-titled, Foo Fighters.
Speaker: And the second one was The Color and the Shape.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: I actually really like Monkey Ranch, which is from their second album.
Speaker: I think that one's one of their better songs.
Speaker: It's so weird.
Speaker: Everyone had said that that was one of their favorite songs, and that was one that I had never heard before.
Speaker: And then I played the game, and I'm like, oh, this is pretty good.
Speaker: I can see...
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Such an upbeat kind of punk song.
Speaker: Just so good.
Speaker: I like upbeat when you activate the the bot frenzy and get the chiptune version.
Speaker: Chiptune version.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: This is what I'm talking about.
Speaker: Scott's just like, yep, uh-huh.
Speaker: Yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh.
Speaker: Yeah, Chip 2.
Speaker: Chip 2.
Speaker: Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker: Imagine rock and roll music mixed with video game music.
Speaker: Well, you know, it's not our fault.
Speaker: The Overlord took over and wanted to make everything all tech now.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: I can't wait for it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, that's awesome.
Speaker: For those that aren't watching the YouTube, you just missed Scott's little dance to the- Yeah, I was doing the shoulder dance.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Just in case you're wondering why I never became a professional dancer.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So this is, th is is your third game you've worked on, right?
Speaker: Or fourth?
Speaker: Fourth.
Speaker: So what, what have you learned incrementally through the process to go from, you know,
Speaker: Well, first of all, what was the biggest surprise that you had from being an enthusiast, being a like an elite, not even a high level, an elite level tournament player and understanding rules probably better than anyone else on the planet and then coming in and saying, oh, now I have to design it.
Speaker: What was the biggest surprise?
Speaker: That it's really hard.
Speaker: Like you run into a lot of what ifs and a lot of... Like when I'm playing and I think of an idea, I'm like, why didn't they just do this?
Speaker: Or why... You know what would be cool?
Speaker: If X, Y, and Z. Like when you don't have to actually implement it, you can come up with thousands of ideas a second.
Speaker: Like it's so easy to just...
Speaker: You know, oh, man, they should do something like this.
Speaker: But the problem is when you actually make the rule, you actually have to think of like every implication and execution of that rule.
Speaker: And how it interacts with the other rules and and and what it actually means, like, like, well, people understand that there's so much more to it.
Speaker: It's funny that you say that because it has to be like simplistic complexity, right?
Speaker: Because like look at, I think of the 90s games.
Speaker: Like I always kind of think of like giant mnemonic.
Speaker: That game does have some good depth to it and whatnot.
Speaker: But the problem is, is everything gets overridden because everyone lines up their grid and then they get the spinner lit for ridiculous amounts of points and then you just spin it all day long.
Speaker: And so it's like that.
Speaker: Like you're constantly have to balance like,
Speaker: Well, what do I do?
Speaker: So that way someone doesn't just focus solely on Overlord or, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: You got to make sure there's nothing too.
Speaker: too crazy.
Speaker: I know on, on rush, I kind of went wild and was just like, yeah, you can boost things as high as you want and you can put multipliers on things and you can blow it up, do all this crazy stuff.
Speaker: And it was fun for a while.
Speaker: And then people started getting like hundreds of billions instead of just like a few building billions.
Speaker: I'm like, okay, this is starting to become meaningless, right?
Speaker: Like the scores have to mean something.
Speaker: And so we, we adjusted that in the latest update.
Speaker: to try to make it more balanced.
Speaker: And so when you actually get a good score, it's because you, you did something cool.
Speaker: You didn't just, you know, have the one thing lined up and, and did it a certain way or whatever.
Speaker: So that, that, that was kind of a lesson learned.
Speaker: And I'm foo, you know, there are crazy multipliers, so I'm a little worried people might find some crazy things, but so far I think I've kept it all sort of,
Speaker: balance where people are picking different cities.
Speaker: You can pick either wizard mode.
Speaker: People aren't just always in a play field multiplier because it gets harder to start
Speaker: You know, the in-lane targets, you're not always just shatzing because it's really freaking hard on that game to actually shoot into the in-lane targets.
Speaker: So you only do it when, like, the opportunity presents itself and you have, like, a big thing.
Speaker: It's not like Star Wars where you're just always, you know, make sure I'm multiplying everything.
Speaker: So all that stuff is stuff I've learned and I'm thinking about as I'm making rules.
Speaker: When you're playing it,
Speaker: What, what triggers for you wanting to try to shoot the shot shot, the, the standup targets, because for me, that looks almost like, you know, attack from our straight up the middle.
Speaker: It seems like it is a, a ricochet waiting to happen that will go right between your flippers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, if you have like your last shot in a mode is always worth a lot.
Speaker: So I've seen people try to double that, you know, or,
Speaker: just double like in bot frenzy, you can actually double the spinner rip.
Speaker: Like when your spinner is lit for a lot, it'll actually multiply all the spins, not just like one.
Speaker: That was fun to implement to all the, all that logic of, you know, a shot multiplier seems so simple.
Speaker: And then you have to think like, wait, what is a shot?
Speaker: Like defined shot for me.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: How many times do you break a game starting to code it?
Speaker: Like, do you just have moments where like you're, you're coding everything out?
Speaker: You guys are testing it out in the lab or whatever.
Speaker: And all of a sudden the game just like shuts itself off.
Speaker: I mean, I hope that doesn't happen.
Speaker: I didn't know.
Speaker: You're testing, not on location.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm saying when you guys are creating the game, does that ever happen?
Speaker: Like you're like, this will be awesome.
Speaker: And then you put it all in and it just like breaks the game.
Speaker: I mean, when I'm developing, it's literally like writing code and then sending it to the game and then testing it.
Speaker: And I'm sure, yeah, sometimes you'll forget a semicolon and you'll be in an infinite loop like that stuff happens to everybody.
Speaker: And when that happens in pinball, everything just locks up and you're just like, wait, why is nothing happening?
Speaker: And you're like, oh, you know, oops.
Speaker: So, yeah, it's kind of it can have some crazy consequences if someone was just watching the game.
Speaker: But when I'm testing, I do it with glass off, you know, with my hand.
Speaker: So it's not like I'm physically like I'm going to play a game of Foo and then something bad happens.
Speaker: It's more like I implemented a new mode.
Speaker: I start the mode.
Speaker: I hit some shots and then it dies.
Speaker: And I'm like, oh, OK, I need to go look at this thing.
Speaker: Like that's sort of how that works.
Speaker: You should make that a silver ball swag shirt.
Speaker: Did I forget my semicolons?
Speaker: Actually, I'm just going to make one that says pro tip, play with the glass off.
Speaker: Play like the professionals.
Speaker: Now, your life before pinball was encoding, like you were in software, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: Are you a unicorn that you actually have that background in actual coding, but also being an elite player too and coming over?
Speaker: Has that been any different?
Speaker: I first, I would say it's actually not as rare as you'd think.
Speaker: I think a people that find themselves good at pinball or at least very enthusiastic about pinball in my polling, it seems like there's a good amount of them that either have computer programming jobs or are in that, that field or just like math and stuff in general.
Speaker: It's not quite as unicorn coincidence as you'd think since it kind of aligns that way.
Speaker: But in my case, it worked out especially well because, yeah, I'm really passionate pinball and they needed somebody who could code and could move to Chicago on a whim.
Speaker: And I'm not, I mean, I do have a house in Washington, but I got it rented out.
Speaker: So that's still there.
Speaker: But I was basically able to take advantage of the opportunity and just dive in.
Speaker: How have you been liking Chicago?
Speaker: Is it definitely – like is it a change of pace from Seattle?
Speaker: Like are you enjoying the food more?
Speaker: What are your thoughts on Chicago?
Speaker: Yeah, it's I mean, it's similar in a lot of ways.
Speaker: You know, things are expensive and like this traffic on the 90 and, you know, it's it's very a lot of things are similar.
Speaker: But I will say it's nice where it's not always gray and raining.
Speaker: Like it's cool to see the sun when you step outside.
Speaker: The wind is annoying, but I think I'd trade the wind.
Speaker: But then you actually want the wind when it's hot outside.
Speaker: So that actually cancels out.
Speaker: And then in the winter, you just don't go outside.
Speaker: So that solves that problem.
Speaker: You hibernate.
Speaker: Duck, take the door shut.
Speaker: Remind me how this whole experience started.
Speaker: That you're a programmer in Seattle, an elite level player.
Speaker: And how did it end up that your job and your passion merged?
Speaker: This was...
Speaker: basically Tim Sexton's doing, he reached out to me because he had seen me at tournaments and he, I think he knew that I was in software and he had actually just had the same sort of crossroads in his life where he was working in software and was able to, had an opportunity to go to Stern and he had to make that decision, you know, do I want to leave
Speaker: what I know and try this new adventure.
Speaker: And so he did it and he loved it so much that he kind of recruited me thinking I'd be a good match.
Speaker: And I was like, well, I literally just closed on this house like a few months ago.
Speaker: Why don't you try in a year?
Speaker: And sure enough, next year he reached out and was like, Hey, we're still, you know, what do you think?
Speaker: Did you want to come give it a shot?
Speaker: And I
Speaker: And I was like, well, I do have a renter now.
Speaker: And I mean, what's the worst?
Speaker: Sure, I'll do an interview.
Speaker: Yeah, let's see where this goes.
Speaker: I mean, I didn't really believe that I would actually be able to work at Stern Pinball.
Speaker: That's pretty cool.
Speaker: But I was like, well, I don't want to pass this up.
Speaker: So I followed the interview.
Speaker: They flew me out to Chicago.
Speaker: I had to like...
Speaker: you know, not be at work on a, on a Friday randomly or whatever.
Speaker: Just be like, Oh, sorry.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm not in today.
Speaker: I'm sick.
Speaker: So yeah, that was cool.
Speaker: They, they treated me well there, showed me some of the cool Chicago spots.
Speaker: They put me up in a nice, nice hotel downtown.
Speaker: It was really, really a cool experience.
Speaker: And, and then,
Speaker: And then they hit me with like the coding questions that, you know, very beginning of the day, like 9am.
Speaker: And I'm like, I've kind of froze up.
Speaker: And then I like, remember, it was like, remember, you know how to code.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: Just, just do your thing.
Speaker: And so got on the whiteboard.
Speaker: So we're, you know, writing code in a marker and whatnot.
Speaker: And well, did, did, did well enough and then got an offer and,
Speaker: Pretty much, you know, I had to think about it a little bit and talk it over with my parents.
Speaker: You know, what should I do?
Speaker: Should I go to Chicago?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: And my friends were like, well, yeah, I mean, it's pinball.
Speaker: You look, that's your thing, right?
Speaker: We still make those, right?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker: So, yeah, that's kind of basically it.
Speaker: And just sort of Tim Sexton just kind of reached out.
Speaker: And yeah, that was it.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: It's not what you know, it's who you know, right?
Speaker: Well, in a little bit of what you know.
Speaker: And you end up in a boardroom.
Speaker: They're going to hire Ray over me because he can code and he can play and he knows rules.
Speaker: Just make sure you put your semicolon on the board when you're writing it in a marker.
Speaker: Is it a coding language that you use that you have been familiar with or did you have to learn a new language?
Speaker: So it's C++, which is...
Speaker: I had done it in college a lot.
Speaker: That was pretty much what you wrote.
Speaker: Well, when you first, when I first went to call it like your first year in college, you do like Java, which is kind of like the beginner's language to kind of get you the concept of programming.
Speaker: But then your later classes are all done in C++, which is like a more hardcore language where it doesn't do a lot of the stuff for you.
Speaker: You kind of have to be more particular meticulous with,
Speaker: spelling things out and learning how the computer memory works and algorithms and data management.
Speaker: And so all that kind of thing was all in my upper CS classes.
Speaker: And that's what they use at Stern.
Speaker: But I hadn't really used it in my jobs, except for like briefly touching on it.
Speaker: One of the jobs I worked at actually had a Mac and a Windows version of their program.
Speaker: But the program was more just a wrapper for a Flash application.
Speaker: So you'd actually download like a Windows or Mac thing and you'd run it.
Speaker: And then it would have a Flash window where you'd be able to do all your things in.
Speaker: And so at that job, I mostly did Flash programming.
Speaker: But I did every once in a while have to peek into the Windows code, which uses C++.
Speaker: So I didn't have zero experience, professional experience with it, but it was pretty low on the list of things that was fresh in my mind.
Speaker: But I did remember from my, I had to kind of remember my, my college, you know, remember your training and that, you know, came in handy.
Speaker: So I, my mind's blank.
Speaker: What do you got for me, Scott?
Speaker: I lost you in my code talk.
Speaker: I should have.
Speaker: No, no, it's no.
Speaker: We're so entranced by the code talk.
Speaker: We didn't know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, so coming to Stern Pinball, it is your, it's, it's a dream job.
Speaker: And a lot of people like, were you concerned at all that some people say it's like, don't, don't meet your heroes.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Because in your mind, they're going to be someone different than they are.
Speaker: And they may or may not live up to your expectations.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: How has that been merging your love with your job?
Speaker: It's been pretty great.
Speaker: I haven't really seen much downside to it.
Speaker: It's I mean, it can be a little, you know, you have to be a little more.
Speaker: Who you talk to about what and, you know, make sure you're not like you're super excited about everything, but you can't.
Speaker: you know, say what you're working on and, and you can't participate in the rumors and speculations, you know, part.
Speaker: But other than that, I mean, I still go to all the pinball tournaments.
Speaker: I can, I know, and still play games at my home and, and even play on location.
Speaker: And yet I still work on a game.
Speaker: It's code every day and I can't get enough of pinball.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I'm crazy.
Speaker: And we want to remind everyone after the show, we have the Patreon where Raymond's going to be opening up about all the rumors and secrets.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Uh-huh.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: I apologize.
Speaker: It'll just be, you know, a million dollars a month or however many, you know, takes place of losing your job.
Speaker: And the lawsuit to follow with it.
Speaker: It reminds me of when Star Wars came out, then like the last episode,
Speaker: three terrible movies.
Speaker: Jay Abrams handed out like a sheet that said, this is everything you guys can discuss.
Speaker: And it was a blank piece of paper.
Speaker: That's funny.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: Now there are a crazy amount of talented pinball players in the Chicago area.
Speaker: How brutal is league?
Speaker: Do you have league guys or do you just do competition or how's that work?
Speaker: Yeah, I'm part of the Chicago Pinball League, which is, you know, it's pretty small, only 24 people, but we go to people's houses and play once a month.
Speaker: And you're kind of grouped with people who are doing as well as you in the league.
Speaker: So, yeah, I'll be facing all the top dogs.
Speaker: You know, Keith Johnson is in the league.
Speaker: Andy Bagwell is in the league.
Speaker: I mean, it's not quite as crazy as it used to be.
Speaker: You know, I don't think Josh or Zach Sharpe are in the league anymore.
Speaker: Roger Sharpe is, though.
Speaker: It's really fun playing with him.
Speaker: And he'll still kick your butt if you're not careful.
Speaker: You got to watch out.
Speaker: He can still play.
Speaker: And so it's cool because he is kind of like a hero, right?
Speaker: And you're just playing pinball with him, like, in the Chicago League.
Speaker: And same with...
Speaker: you know, a lot of industry people like Joe Katz, Keith Johnson, Mark Seiden, Jim, Jim Shearer.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think that's his name.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Stern pinball.
Speaker: There's even, yeah, just all sorts of people that you, that you hang out with and play.
Speaker: It's pretty cool.
Speaker: I will have to admit if you ever get the opportunity to meet Roger Sharp, definitely do it.
Speaker: Cause we were, we always joke about like, don't meet your heroes, but like,
Speaker: Roger is like the most down to earth guy I know.
Speaker: Roger is one of those people that actually exceeds your expectations on meeting your heroes because he makes you feel like you're awesome as opposed to you going and saying, hey, you remember that shot you did?
Speaker: That was that was really cool.
Speaker: Yeah, he gives you such good praise when you do something cool.
Speaker: He's like genuinely impressed and it makes you feel really good.
Speaker: And he's very, very humble about his own playing.
Speaker: And I definitely did not expect the mustache to be as awesome as it is.
Speaker: It's an impressive.
Speaker: You remember when he shaved it off and people were like, whoa, whoa, what happened?
Speaker: Oh, he did?
Speaker: It was like for a week or something.
Speaker: And he posted a picture and people are like, no, no, no, no.
Speaker: You need to grow that.
Speaker: Came right back.
Speaker: Like nothing.
Speaker: He woke up the next morning and poof.
Speaker: It was the Santa Tim, Tim Allen and the Santa Claus.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: There's two people who are required to have mustaches, Roger Sharp and Tom Selleck.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: So what has kind of stood out to you in the Foo Fighters process versus some of the other stuff you've done in the past?
Speaker: I mean, there was, there, there is this whole storyline and lore that I had to learn.
Speaker: And, you know, with the, the overlord.
Speaker: So describe this.
Speaker: I don't know the lore at all.
Speaker: So just tell me about it.
Speaker: I'm still kind of trying to figure it out too.
Speaker: I'm not the guy.
Speaker: Tanya could be able to tell you or Jack, but it's basically from what I gather that overlords like this,
Speaker: alien who grew up in area 51, kind of raised by scientists who like, you know, kind of treat him as like their kid.
Speaker: And so he kind of like the Sonic movie where he grew up on all the pop culture and stuff.
Speaker: But then at some point he kind of was like old enough.
Speaker: And Tanya described as his angsty teenage years where he wanted to, to go out and reformat everyone and everything to be,
Speaker: techno and digital um you can kind of that's kind of why on the game you'll see like the area 51 area those buildings you know area 51 is like a desert with like warehouses so you might be wondering why it looks all like purple neon sort of thing that's that's basically the overlord turning everything into his futuristic vision of
Speaker: of reality.
Speaker: And then also giving people these helmets that reformat their brain to just kind of rock out to the techno music.
Speaker: Kind of like, what was it?
Speaker: The Riddler in Batman forever.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's kind of what I gathered.
Speaker: And then the part that starts confusing me is when you get into the meta of the Saturday morning cartoon, where there's like the action figures that the overlord is,
Speaker: is collecting because I guess in this world, the Foo Fighters are a TV show and they all have their own action figures.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so the Overlord, that's kind of why in like the Matt sequence, he's like flipping channels on the TV because it's kind of like he was watching the Foo Fighters, I guess.
Speaker: But also the Foo Fighters are not only on the TV show, but then they're also real because they end up being the ones to stop the Overlord from his plan.
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: the Foo Fighters get in the van and they travel to these cities that he's reformatted and try to, you know, take the helmets away and save everybody.
Speaker: Or like in the Seattle mode, you know, this is a call.
Speaker: They're kind of going around everywhere, like, you know, helping everybody run is the Roswell mode where the Overlord actually is there and he's chasing you and you kind of have to run away from him and
Speaker: Chicago's, I know they all have like the helmets on, you're freeing the helmets.
Speaker: So all the modes have their own little storyline to it.
Speaker: And then the Area 51 storyline is you're going to Area 51 and you're actually digging through the old files of this Overlord.
Speaker: Because remember, they've had him since he crash landed as like a little baby over.
Speaker: alien.
Speaker: And so you're finding all these embarrassing facts about him.
Speaker: So if you're ever watching a stream and someone's playing Area 51, look at the display.
Speaker: There's all sorts of hilarious folders that they show and things.
Speaker: So there's a lot in the art in this game for sure and story and
Speaker: Yeah, that was a lot to kind of take in when I joined the project and learn.
Speaker: And it's cool, though.
Speaker: It's really cool.
Speaker: Okay, so they assemble to form.
Speaker: So when I was a kid, there was a show called Voltron.
Speaker: Oh, I forgot about that.
Speaker: Yes, that's how they planned to beat.
Speaker: Or that's...
Speaker: See, this is where I get confused again because... Is this the cartoon?
Speaker: Their Saturday morning cartoon?
Speaker: Or is this the actual Foo Fighters who are traveling around?
Speaker: Yeah, I'm not sure.
Speaker: But I just know that... Yeah, there's this big Foo Bot that you end up fighting the Overlord's big suit, you know, thing that he's in spaceship with legs.
Speaker: Kind of like, what was that?
Speaker: Avatar style?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so you build this Fubot, and now you can control the Fubot, and that gives you the extra power to kind of take him down.
Speaker: That's kind of like the late-game stuff, Fubot and Final Battle, after you've saved everybody and whatnot.
Speaker: So I was listening to Brody even talk pinball this week with Nick Lane and Kevin Manny, and they were talking about, like,
Speaker: pinball machines being scripted.
Speaker: They like the old Williams is be like second city.
Speaker: They pay to come in and like Tina Fey was part of medieval madness and whatnot.
Speaker: How much of it is Stern coming up with this content versus do you guys even pay people to do a script?
Speaker: Like, cause this, this seems all pretty off the wall.
Speaker: Like did this all come?
Speaker: I think this was all in house.
Speaker: I know zombie Yeti, Jeremy Packer came up with a lot of the art concepts that then we ended up
Speaker: building off of and uh yeah i don't i don't actually know how all that sort of happens because like i said when i join it's all done already and i just am jumping into the code so yeah it's pretty impressive though it's pretty cool do you usually see a completed play field or is it still whitewood when you're working on code
Speaker: It's always a white wood.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it has all the shots and lights and things so you can, you can code it.
Speaker: And then once you do see the final art, you're always blown away.
Speaker: Cause you're like, Oh wow, this is way better than just a blank play field.
Speaker: Like this is really cool.
Speaker: So what's your, go ahead.
Speaker: I was going to ask, what's your favorite game you've worked on so far?
Speaker: The current one.
Speaker: On the production line.
Speaker: Yeah, right?
Speaker: I mean, they have all been pretty cool.
Speaker: I guess I have a soft spot for Led Zeppelin because it was like my first one where I really got to just go ham and basically, you know, come up with the multiball rules.
Speaker: So I got to think of all the cool different
Speaker: of like this multiple is going to be based on shots.
Speaker: This one's ramps, this one switches, that sort of thing.
Speaker: And then, you know, it was your first, I mean, Avengers was like getting my toes wet and kind of just doing what Keith wanted.
Speaker: And that was cool too.
Speaker: That definitely was a great way to, to jump into it.
Speaker: But I think I have a soft spot for Led Zeppelin.
Speaker: But then after that rush was even better, like in terms of I got to that game had so much going on that I was it was like Led Zeppelin on steroids.
Speaker: And then Foo Fighters is kind of orthogonal to those games where it's it's
Speaker: Yeah, I get to do a lot of cool things, but I'm not coming up with everything on my own and just kind of going wild.
Speaker: It's been more of a work with Jack, work with Tanya, kind of collaborative kind of experience, I guess.
Speaker: And it's been...
Speaker: It's been fun.
Speaker: Yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker: And I'm really happy with how it came out.
Speaker: So I don't really have a favorite.
Speaker: They're all just kind of different experiences.
Speaker: What's your favorite shot in the game?
Speaker: Probably the side ramp.
Speaker: It's just like the smoothest, easiest side ramp in a long time.
Speaker: Like it just, you just hit it and it just flies around there.
Speaker: I feel like you don't really brick it.
Speaker: It's like if you get it
Speaker: in that vicinity, it just kind of sucks it up there and it just feels really good.
Speaker: And then, and then you can shoot the spinner afterwards.
Speaker: So like that combo is probably my favorite.
Speaker: That's all Ray does.
Speaker: He sits in the lab and just shoots that shot over and over.
Speaker: What's the, what's the most shot combo that you have planned for the code?
Speaker: Like an eight way combo, seven way?
Speaker: Well, I think it stops after about 12 or 13, which is when it gets to red.
Speaker: So every time you're hitting a combo, the color gets a little more up the spectrum.
Speaker: And you actually can see it like both on the play field with the lights, the little circle combatron lights, they'll start changing colors.
Speaker: And once you get it to red, that's like the max.
Speaker: And that's I think that's 13 or 14.
Speaker: After that, it doesn't go up any higher, but you're still getting like huge, you know, millions of points every time you keep it going.
Speaker: Yeah, it's the combos on that game are really fun.
Speaker: And if you just keep hitting combos, you'll you'll get good points.
Speaker: Like, don't underestimate the combos.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Or kind of coming up on to the hour mark.
Speaker: Is there anything that you haven't got to share about Foo Fighters that you want people to know?
Speaker: There's just something that's like, yeah, what what haven't we asked that we should have been asking?
Speaker: I mean, you haven't asked any rules questions, but I guess you guys don't have your games yet.
Speaker: So you don't really.
Speaker: It's true.
Speaker: Well, and like, so we did talk about the van, at least the lighting of the white.
Speaker: I do like the actual van shots.
Speaker: I've played, I've played a handful of times, but the drop targets, I like how you have that lined up to do, you know, your missile or your speaker or I can't remember what the third thing is on there.
Speaker: But that kind of roving shot with locking it in and boosting your van is really cool too.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Oh, go ahead.
Speaker: Before you start a mode, yeah, you hit those drops and then you hit the thing behind it.
Speaker: But the fun part is if you ever hit the, if you ever miss a drop, like you hit the behind paddle, it actually resets your drops.
Speaker: So it's actually challenging to try to pick those off without missing and resetting them.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: You do get progress towards a bonus multiplier, so not all is lost if you miss those.
Speaker: You get rewarded pretty well if you get all three down without resetting them.
Speaker: Yeah, because then they stay down and you can hit the paddle behind them as many times as you can before the time runs out.
Speaker: And each time levels up your van another level.
Speaker: And so if you hit that thing like six times on the bomb, then the next time you start a mode, you'll have six shots already spotted.
Speaker: So you only need a couple more to beat it.
Speaker: Or like the engine will start your mode with 100 seconds instead of 50.
Speaker: Or the speakers will start your scoring instead of 2 million a shot.
Speaker: It'd be like 3 million a shot.
Speaker: So it's just depending on which mod you have, the next mode you play will be better.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: So I'm playing this in Logan's Arcade and you walk in and I turn to you and say, okay, so what am I supposed to be doing on this game?
Speaker: How are you going to describe it to me?
Speaker: Basically, I would say you...
Speaker: Honestly, for any game, I think I'm stealing this from Travis Miri.
Speaker: The three M's.
Speaker: Modes, multipliers, multiball.
Speaker: Actually, maybe not in that order.
Speaker: Multiball, modes, multiplier.
Speaker: Anyway, so I described those three things.
Speaker: Let's say your modes are hitting the white arrows to spell van and shooting the left ramp.
Speaker: Then just pick a mode.
Speaker: Whatever shots show up that you like, pick that mode because it'll actually show you the arrows as you're selecting the modes.
Speaker: and then tell them where the multiballs are, which is hitting the overlord a bunch of times.
Speaker: He captures your ball and then you shoot the ball.
Speaker: That's a multiball or shooting the right ramp on a pro five times is a multiball.
Speaker: Um, or on the premium, you can go up there and each time you hit the ramp, it will actually spot you a shot the first time.
Speaker: And you just have to start it by hitting the, uh, the diverter opens up and you hit the back target.
Speaker: So I would describe those, and then I would describe the multipliers of shooting the right orbit three times builds the Rocco meter to start 2x scoring.
Speaker: So don't sleep on just shooting that right orbit and getting the ball to kind of figure eight into that little side lane, and that will start your play field multiplier.
Speaker: And that's kind of all you need to know.
Speaker: In the modes, you just follow the colored arrows and the multiballs.
Speaker: I guess I'd tell them about the add a ball, which is your radio targets on the left.
Speaker: If you hit both of those, then the big radio light will start flashing.
Speaker: And then you hit either of those to collect that radio.
Speaker: And that's your mystery award, which in multiball is always add a ball.
Speaker: And, uh, and then I'd tell them if you can beat three modes, you get a wizard mode.
Speaker: And that would be like my, my goal that I'd set for them.
Speaker: I'd be like, that should keep you busy for a while.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Well, I'm excited.
Speaker: I can't wait to get my game.
Speaker: I've already sold my whitewater.
Speaker: There's a spot just waiting, glowing.
Speaker: Oh, you probably got a pretty penny for that.
Speaker: I remember that game shot up majorly.
Speaker: So it's been really interesting.
Speaker: I don't know if anyone has tried to sell a game recently.
Speaker: I did get a pretty penny off it.
Speaker: I can't complain.
Speaker: But it was really weird.
Speaker: Like, I don't know if you guys have ever had this problem.
Speaker: I posted on Pinside and someone messaged me.
Speaker: Can I convince you to give you a heady glass?
Speaker: I don't know what the heck that is.
Speaker: Apparently, it's a bong, a really, really nice bong.
Speaker: And I was like, so he was really, he was really familiar with your pastimes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And then the other weird part two is, is I don't know how deep I want.
Speaker: I know Scott knows about this.
Speaker: Uh, let's just say there was one that shared like a, an awkward, sad family situation and said,
Speaker: Because of this, I'm a little strapped for cash.
Speaker: Can you give me $500 off?
Speaker: No, $1,500 off.
Speaker: Oh, $1,500 off.
Speaker: They want $1,500 off for their... So it was like a family tragedy.
Speaker: And I just kind of jokingly said, hey, I've got this family tragedy.
Speaker: I still want to buy this luxury item.
Speaker: Can you give me... Can you cut me a deal on it?
Speaker: It just sounded so bizarre.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I haven't...
Speaker: I haven't tried to sell anything too recently, but I'm sure it's bizarre out there in the raw.
Speaker: You never know what kind of people you're going to run into.
Speaker: It doesn't help when games like Foo Fighters and six other games come out all at the same time, and everyone's like, we need to get rid of everything right now.
Speaker: Yeah, and everyone wants to.
Speaker: But no, it just made me chuckle because I've had more unique interactions that go around.
Speaker: And luckily, I ended up selling Whitewater locally to a gentleman.
Speaker: Shout out to Kyle.
Speaker: Thanks for buying my whitewater.
Speaker: He was in love with it.
Speaker: Got dropped off.
Speaker: Did it still have the topper?
Speaker: It did.
Speaker: I did the new ROMs that actually do the bonus hold on the third waterfall drop reward.
Speaker: Oh, nice.
Speaker: Yeah, that home ROM is nice.
Speaker: Oh, it's so good.
Speaker: And what's funny is I was selling it as like the motor was broken.
Speaker: And then I got to Kyle's house and we opened it up and I realized the set screw was loose on the Yeti head.
Speaker: So we just had to tighten down the set screw.
Speaker: The motor was fine.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I had an issue on my Walking Dead I got where the drop targets would do this dance where they'd go like... And I'd be like, oh, I don't want to look at drop targets.
Speaker: And I look and it's literally just a screw that was like loose.
Speaker: And I just went... And then fixed it.
Speaker: Isn't it funny?
Speaker: Some of those...
Speaker: Every time I have to take off the glass, I'm like, please just be something.
Speaker: I actually, I had that with rush when I opened my alley and I'm like, there's a problem with the, with the drop target.
Speaker: Like, I can't remember exactly what was going on.
Speaker: And I looked in like the spring had fallen off.
Speaker: And so I just reattached the spring and it was fine.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Like I was with my Godzilla, the, the magnet portion of the stomach, the metal stud fell out of me.
Speaker: mecha got stomach yeah yeah so i i texted zach benny because you know he does the warranty stuff and he was training greg bone at the time and they get on a conference call and we're there talking and i'm like oh a screw fell out of the back so he just slid the stud back in and screwed it in i actually now now that i finished my renovation i still need to get because greg pulled because my side scoop
Speaker: the opto was bad on mine.
Speaker: That was so Ray.
Speaker: And we talked about this a few times.
Speaker: That was the issue why I couldn't play because that side scoop, that was such a, a bad situation.
Speaker: And so finally he's like, you know, everything was backward because obviously this is the, the modern modern era.
Speaker: And so Greg like pulled his out and send it and then certain warranty to send it out to me, but my wife put it somewhere and I have no idea where it is.
Speaker: So now,
Speaker: that we have finished.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, so I, I need to find that and give it back to Greg bone.
Speaker: I, I've appreciated the patience he's had, but the it's, uh, I go into, um, anything this year or next year, uh, expo, Texas next time.
Speaker: Planning Expo, Texas is definitely on my list next year.
Speaker: I couldn't go this year because my wife was heading to a girls trip.
Speaker: So I had to be home with the kids and I was not interested in bringing my 12, 9 and 8 year old to TPF.
Speaker: And I think my 12 year old would have been fine, but I think my 9 year old and 8 year old would have just been like, Dad, this is boring.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Except, except we went over to my friend's house who had a bond 60.
Speaker: And so we were playing that and they fell in love with sitting on a stool and playing pinball.
Speaker: And so my friend actually gave me a stool.
Speaker: And so my kids have actually been playing pinball more than they ever have since I've had pinball machines.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: And it was just the whole, they like sitting up so they can see a little better.
Speaker: So that's a pro tip for you guys.
Speaker: Yeah, I actually, I did that.
Speaker: I sat down on a chair while playing a Simpsons pinball party.
Speaker: And I was like, oh my gosh, how, how, if you're, if you're not tall enough to see, you cannot, the comic book guy's head is in the way of the entire upper play field.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: I'm like, this is a view that, that some, that like kids and some people have.
Speaker: Like it kind of, it was like, wow, okay.
Speaker: I'm going to stand up now so I can play, but it is comfy.
Speaker: You get to just kind of sit down and relax.
Speaker: Or if you're in the lineman position, cause he got, he got way down, you know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, when you're defending the ball towards your flippers, I feel like that would be helpful for sure.
Speaker: You get to see the angles in a different way, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yes, but I just booked our hotel for Chicago.
Speaker: So we should be there.
Speaker: I'm planning on it.
Speaker: Wait, why did you book the hotel?
Speaker: I thought we were staying at Ray's house.
Speaker: That's what I thought, too.
Speaker: See the pinball machines where furniture should be?
Speaker: There's not much room here.
Speaker: We'll just sleep under them.
Speaker: It'll be like when you had those little tents as a kid.
Speaker: And just be like sleep under them.
Speaker: And we can even put up like bed sheets on the side, you know, make a fort, a pinball.
Speaker: Well, cool.
Speaker: Ray, if you want someone to get ahold of you, what's the best way to get ahold of you?
Speaker: Well, Ray also has a discord.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's yeah.
Speaker: You just go to my Twitch chat like Rayday pinball twitch.tv slash Rayday pinball.
Speaker: Give me a follow there.
Speaker: And if you want the discord, you can type exclamation mark discord or you can just message me on Facebook.
Speaker: Messenger is probably the easiest way, I guess.
Speaker: And I've got to give you a shout out on that discord.
Speaker: It's one.
Speaker: Most of those discords kind of like.
Speaker: do great at the very beginning and then they just kind of putter out yours always seems to be active like there's always someone commenting on it and so yeah it's pretty pretty crazy yeah so it uh it blew up with the um discussion of all the ifpa changes for next year podcasts in itself you guys should get a have you already gotten josh on and and talked about that at all
Speaker: Actually, we haven't, but that's a great... We had him on for Pulp Fiction.
Speaker: Two episodes ago.
Speaker: We haven't been able to bring him back on, but that's actually a good point.
Speaker: It seems like there's a lot of rule changes, so it'll be interesting to get his view and perspective on that.
Speaker: Josh, the one guy that you could have on four episodes in a row and not have the same material discussed every single time.
Speaker: Seriously, because you could talk raw thrills on one, you could talk...
Speaker: you know, coding on another, and then you can talk IP on another.
Speaker: And I just, yeah.
Speaker: You could also have Roger on for four episodes, but they'd be four, four hour episodes.
Speaker: You'd get through five questions.
Speaker: So, you know it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: A couple of things I want to point out.
Speaker: So we did, we did something fun.
Speaker: Silver bar swag.
Speaker: If you go and check out our stuff, we, we had a Brad Albright do the design for the,
Speaker: There's some awesome shoes and a backpack and you can choose your colors.
Speaker: And there's a Keith Elwin goat shirt.
Speaker: We're just having a little fun with this.
Speaker: It's, it's still, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker: And I know I, I love seeing pictures of people getting the shoes because they are really fun pinball shoes.
Speaker: And I've been talking with Josh about getting the 3.0 version of the Loser Kid hat made.
Speaker: So those are in the works.
Speaker: So as soon as we get those made, then Ray, we'll give you the 3.0 hat and get you leveled up.
Speaker: We'll have to bring it personally to you at Expo here in October.
Speaker: Hopefully we'll get them done before then.
Speaker: If you want to check out our swag, it's on silverballswag.com slash collections slash loser kid pinball podcast.
Speaker: And there's dashes in between the loser kid and pinball.
Speaker: And this is our second episode on YouTube.
Speaker: If you want to look at our beautiful faces, then that is definitely a way of checking us out.
Speaker: Happy for subscriptions and any sort of listening on whatever method you like.
Speaker: We are just grateful that you guys are able to spend an evening with us or an afternoon or a morning or whatever.
Speaker: I also want to do a quick shout out to Martin Gomez.
Speaker: If you did not check out our – I posted on all the socials this week.
Speaker: But they did – they originally did an episode about pinball on their podcast 99% Invisible.
Speaker: It is a huge podcast.
Speaker: And they did this pinball podcast like a decade ago.
Speaker: Well, at that time, pinball was –
Speaker: Was coming out a lot coming off life support.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Let's put that away.
Speaker: I mean, really what they covered was is the 90s Williams stuff.
Speaker: They talked about pinball 2000 and then it kind of puttering out.
Speaker: And it's amazing how much has changed in the last decade for pinball and really having a renaissance.
Speaker: So it was cool because the first part was kind of a remix with Roger Sharp, them talking about the movie.
Speaker: And then the last half was them talking to Keith Elwin and Martine going and doing
Speaker: a tournament and just kind of recording that as a newbie and playing through it.
Speaker: Thanks for sharing pinball.
Speaker: I mean, it was crazy because I was looking up their subscribers just on podcast addict alone was 1.1 million subscribers.
Speaker: And that is amazing to have.
Speaker: Yeah, it was, it was crazy.
Speaker: And so it was really funny.
Speaker: A little sound clip from Josh and me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He said, he said, I couldn't get Keith to gloat about himself.
Speaker: He's not like that at all.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like he will, he,
Speaker: Anywho, he doesn't talk about himself.
Speaker: And so he ended up pulling clips from Scott, from me, and from our good friend Martin Robbins off of head-to-head talking about how Keith Elwin is pretty amazing at his job.
Speaker: And so it was cool to be on there.
Speaker: And also they gave a shout-out directly to me because I helped to get them connected to Keith and to Zach Sharp and whatnot.
Speaker: So that way they could get the episode all wrapped up.
Speaker: But it was really fun.
Speaker: It was really cool.
Speaker: It was really different to hear.
Speaker: hear that.
Speaker: And, uh, yeah, I just want to give out Martina a shout and I think he'll actually be at pinball expo as well, but that'd be great.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We'd love to take them around.
Speaker: So, uh, other than that, uh, if you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: You can get ahold of us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, all at loser kid pinball.
Speaker: like Scott said, if you want to buy some of our swag, easiest way right now is to go to silverbrowswag.com slash collection slash loser kid pinball podcast.
Speaker: And there's shirts, shoes, coffee mugs,
Speaker: There's even fabric.
Speaker: You can knit your own thing.
Speaker: Shout out to Jen Rupert for buying some fabric.
Speaker: I guess she's going to make a dress out of it.
Speaker: It's going to look amazing.
Speaker: I cannot wait to see it.
Speaker: Silverball Swag, I'm sporting my triple drain.
Speaker: I guess Travis has got his whole t-shirt collection paid for in the last couple months, and it's all double zeros.
Speaker: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Tell...
Speaker: Tell what you sent Travis, his, his special loser kid shirt.
Speaker: Ray, have you seen our shirt where it's kind of like the baseball shirt and then it has our loser kid logo on the front?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it has the hat that this guy on there and it's the red and red sleeves and black.
Speaker: So he got that and saw the logo and he's like, well, cool.
Speaker: Why are they sending this to me?
Speaker: He flipped it over.
Speaker: We got Muri on the back with the double zero.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: He will forever be a pinball tournament score.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I got to plug, I also have Silver Ball Swag.
Speaker: If you want a coffee mug with my lovely face on it, it's pretty cool.
Speaker: You have some of the cool... I love your logo, though, because it's in the Crash.
Speaker: It's Banjo-Kazooie.
Speaker: Banjo-Kazooie, that's what it is.
Speaker: The font, yeah, it works pretty well.
Speaker: I was pretty happy with that.
Speaker: That's like the only thing I've ever done in a photo editing program ever, and I had to learn how to
Speaker: how to layer and resize text and stuff.
Speaker: And I did it just just for that.
Speaker: So yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker: It's iconic too.
Speaker: If you want a raid a hat, that is where to get raid a pinball.
Speaker: Yeah, Travis Mary's kid has one.
Speaker: He says he's where it makes him play better.
Speaker: It better.
Speaker: He also has a little kid hat too.
Speaker: And he had us sign it while we were at TPF last year.
Speaker: That was pretty cool too.
Speaker: And Ray, are you still streaming regularly or recording?
Speaker: I stream now and then.
Speaker: I will.
Speaker: Next time you'll catch me, I'll be streaming my pin clash finals May 13th, Saturday.
Speaker: I mean, you'll probably be watching on I pinball because that's where it's streamed.
Speaker: But I will technically be live on my channel doing that.
Speaker: nice nice so well cool i guess uh and ray has some of the best tutorials by the way if you really want to know um how to go deep dive play in his games uh look at look him up definitely well that wraps us wraps it up for us tonight thanks again for joining us raymond is always a pleasure having you on and uh to everyone else i guess we'll see you in two weeks
