Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Kid Ball Podcast.
Speaker: I am Josh Roop.
Speaker: With me, my co-captain as always.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: And did I say we're on episode 132?
Speaker: You did not yet, but now you did.
Speaker: Now I did.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And there's been game reveals.
Speaker: If you're looking for that Barrios barbecue, it's out now.
Speaker: There's more rumored games coming up.
Speaker: And Stern.
Speaker: Stern might even have one coming out soon.
Speaker: If you're going to buy these games, who are you going to hit up, Scott?
Speaker: I'm going to call Zach and Nicole Minia flipping out pinball.
Speaker: They have always been great to us.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: There's even some new packages.
Speaker: If you want to upgrade your Foo Fighters, you can get that topper.
Speaker: You can get the R-Blades.
Speaker: But you know what?
Speaker: Really, if you want anything pinball, they're always a good resource.
Speaker: They've always been a good friend to us.
Speaker: Yep, and definitely.
Speaker: And happy birthday to their youngest today, Fletcher.
Speaker: They just posted on Facebook, so I assume it's fine.
Speaker: Yeah, so it's public.
Speaker: Yeah, it's public.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Hey, there has been a ton of news, weirdly enough.
Speaker: It kind of compounded over the last... We tried to record last Saturday, and it's kind of imploded, right?
Speaker: Yeah, well...
Speaker: Well, it was a little bit of everything because you and I were both traveling.
Speaker: Like, okay, I need to stop traveling.
Speaker: I like traveling, but we went to a tennis tournament and it was kind of crazy, just the travel logistics.
Speaker: And we just couldn't, we couldn't make it work.
Speaker: So where was, was it, was the tennis thing here in Utah or where was it at?
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: The tennis thing was in California.
Speaker: It's actually, it's a really big tennis tournament.
Speaker: It's a, it's Indian Wells.
Speaker: So it's in Palm desert.
Speaker: And you know, you know how they, there's a lot of people that say, you know, the fifth major of stuff, if there is a fifth major in tennis, it would be this one.
Speaker: So aside from the U S open, Australian open, uh, Wimbledon and, um,
Speaker: Australian?
Speaker: Did I say Australian?
Speaker: French.
Speaker: French.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So those are the four big ones, but this is, this is considered a big one.
Speaker: And it was, it was a lot of fun.
Speaker: We just went and saw tons of tennis.
Speaker: And we actually had, there was a delay in game because of a bee swarm.
Speaker: A bee swarm.
Speaker: Not kidding.
Speaker: They swarmed in and they actually got onto the drone.
Speaker: So go look it up.
Speaker: It's hilarious.
Speaker: Because they delayed for about two hours while they called a beekeeper to come in and vacuum the bees.
Speaker: So you're telling me if you really want to mess with your competition, you slather the drone and like flower pollen.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It was it was legitimately crazy that like they went and swarmed and like, you know, the spider drones that like go up and take camera.
Speaker: Yeah, it was on that.
Speaker: I'll have to shoot you a picture.
Speaker: It really was surprising.
Speaker: Thankfully, we weren't there that day.
Speaker: We were actually watching on TV.
Speaker: You just want out of this wind because I don't know about your neighborhood, but I know Eagle Mountain, which is across the freeway and down a little bit.
Speaker: Houses were like consumed by tumbleweeds and they were using plow trucks to like get them off the road so you could still drive.
Speaker: It's been insane with the wind here.
Speaker: So this is Pinball and Weather brought to you by Flippin' Out Pinball.
Speaker: All righty.
Speaker: So Texas Pinball Festival is going on right now.
Speaker: There's plenty going on.
Speaker: It's insane to see these pictures.
Speaker: It's crazy.
Speaker: Don from Don's Pinball Podcast is dressed up like Wonka and going around with his mic staff.
Speaker: I guess, dubsing people, knighting them in pinball.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: You know, Eclectic Gamers is down there.
Speaker: It looks like they're enjoying it.
Speaker: Everything just it looks like a party.
Speaker: If you're there, I'm slightly jealous.
Speaker: We're going to try to get this out.
Speaker: So you guys have something to listen to on the way back from Texas Pinball Festival.
Speaker: But yeah, man, there's so much going on.
Speaker: Let's talk the first thing.
Speaker: That's kind of the biggest news is the newest release, right?
Speaker: So like Barry O's Barbecue Challenge.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: By the way, when you said it, and I just thought, I...
Speaker: I heard it as like Spanish, like barrio.
Speaker: Barrio.
Speaker: It's just neighborhood.
Speaker: So it's a barrio barbecue challenge, which is kind of hilarious and awesome at the same time.
Speaker: Barrio.
Speaker: But yeah, Barry O's.
Speaker: This is apparently his last design before he passed away.
Speaker: And the team at American Pinball...
Speaker: and made a group effort to bring it into production is that how you understand is that how you understand the story that's that's how i understand the story but this this design looks oddly close to one of their previous designs too yeah it does it does i did i did learn though because we got talking about this right we got talking about how if you have a layout how do you not get sued when it's that close and obviously it's american pinball they're not going to sue themselves right
Speaker: Like for plagiarism.
Speaker: My understanding to patent a play field is near impossible.
Speaker: Yeah, it would be because you could even argue there.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I know that in trademarks, they have to modify the play field by...
Speaker: you know, like, like 10 to 20% or something like that.
Speaker: So you actually see the reports.
Speaker: And when it talks about the economy, it's like new products coming out.
Speaker: And one of the products is like Doritos.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because they changed the bag or, or Pepsi, Pepsi just updated their logo.
Speaker: And so that actually counts as a new product.
Speaker: Whether or not that actually has to do with pinball, but it,
Speaker: probably dying at some point there's only so much square footage you have in in a design right well i mean really if that were the case do you think stern could sue jjp for the likeness of two flippers on the bottom and a pop but you know pop bumper nest near the flipper yeah i don't know yeah my understanding is you just have to move a couple things on the play field and it's you're good like as long as it's not as long as it's not a one for one which this is not a one for one yeah but
Speaker: But design wise, let's get back to this design.
Speaker: So Berrio's final design, right?
Speaker: Barbecue.
Speaker: Is it a, is it, is a strange a theme to you as it is to me?
Speaker: Like when I think pinball.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think barbecue.
Speaker: Cause we talk Texas pinball festival, but it's because I'm going to go down there and eat barbecue.
Speaker: It's not because I want to play barbecue.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's just, it's,
Speaker: Okay, so let's talk about the Bally Williams era, right?
Speaker: Okay, so let's even go back to mid-80s.
Speaker: They have high speed.
Speaker: They have earthquake.
Speaker: They have whirlwind.
Speaker: Yeah, they have the odd Addams Family and Twilight Zone in there, but they also have Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness.
Speaker: So they have all these...
Speaker: kind of campy themes that really have nothing to do with a license.
Speaker: And so this feels a little bit like they're trying to call back upon that, that era when people were used to, Hey, this is just kind of a fun shooter thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The challenge is we're also 30 years farther away.
Speaker: in the pinball cycle.
Speaker: So would a theme like that resonate today than it did back then?
Speaker: That's going to be one, their biggest challenge if you're just talking theme alone.
Speaker: Well, and I would argue they didn't sell well back then.
Speaker: Granted, you know, like you said.
Speaker: But they went to arcades.
Speaker: They just went to arcades, right?
Speaker: And people who were into pinball would be like, okay, I'm going to go shoot this.
Speaker: So it cost them a buck.
Speaker: But still, like, we're talking three-year difference between what, Adam's Family and the original Medieval Madness?
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: No, sorry, we're about five years.
Speaker: No, it's a little more.
Speaker: More like five.
Speaker: Five years.
Speaker: But still, 4,000 units of medieval madness wasn't terribly amazing for that time.
Speaker: My understanding is these games weren't highly sought after when they first came out.
Speaker: It's not until time started getting under the belt of the pinball community, and then they realized this is an amazing game.
Speaker: Next thing you know, Bally Williams is already out of business, and these things are hard to find because they only made 4,000 of them.
Speaker: It's the classic supply and demand, right?
Speaker: It's supply and demand.
Speaker: Okay, Cactus Canyon, it's a fun game, and I own the remake.
Speaker: Is it a $20,000 game?
Speaker: Absolutely not.
Speaker: There's no way, especially in the current state it was manufactured, but it was going for around that back then.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But my point being is the reason these are classics, the reason they work as an original theme is they never sold as an original theme originally.
Speaker: Like, they never...
Speaker: they weren't flying off the shelves as an original theme.
Speaker: They were made an original thing because Valley Williams was trying to cut some costs and it, it didn't help the bottom line as much as they were hoping it would.
Speaker: And so I think if you want games flying off the shelf, I don't know.
Speaker: I looked at Barry's list and granted he, he did, he was a part of some really great games.
Speaker: Like we heard it from Larry DeMar.
Speaker: We've heard it from Steve Ritchie.
Speaker: and others that were there during the 80s, Barry O's space shuttle helped revive the pinball industry back in 1984.
Speaker: And so there is that.
Speaker: When I think of that game, it's not one of my favorites, though.
Speaker: I mean, he was part of Gorgar, which was the first talking pinball machine.
Speaker: Gorgar speaks.
Speaker: But the other interesting part, too, is they claim, we had Steve Ritchie say this on our last interview we did with him,
Speaker: at least he claimed, that Popeye is what essentially killed Bailey Williams back in the 90s.
Speaker: And that was a very good design.
Speaker: It was a bad one, yeah.
Speaker: But was it the design or was it the theme?
Speaker: He has some hit and misses.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I wouldn't say that he is a terrible designer, but I also wouldn't say that he comes to your mind if you're saying, I need a collection of eight games.
Speaker: I need one from Borg.
Speaker: I need three from Elwynn.
Speaker: I need, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: Very few people, unless they're like, no, I really want that game.
Speaker: it's uh he hasn't had as many hits but he was also out of the pinball industry for a while to be fair yeah he made queen pinball but before that the last game he made was junkyard back in 95 right and so i don't know of anybody who says i that junkyard's in my top 10 no i think that if anyone's gonna say top 10 it would be um dracula
Speaker: Brom Stoker's Dracula.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And that's because it's a really great tournament game.
Speaker: It's very brutal.
Speaker: It's very much press, press start one more time kind of game.
Speaker: What else does it have?
Speaker: It's a great, it's a great theme.
Speaker: Theme.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: It's a great theme.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Even though the movie was terrible, but Dracula is a great thing.
Speaker: The movie, seriously, halfway through the movie, I turned to my brother and I said, I don't even know what's going on.
Speaker: It was really that weird.
Speaker: But looking at Barrio's Barbecue Challenge, it does look much like a throwback to the 1980s.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: When I first saw it, I thought Diner.
Speaker: And you pull a Diner, and there's some similarities there.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So I feel like this is a good throwback to that era.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's not on my short list, though, of games that I want to own.
Speaker: I'm not going to lie here.
Speaker: However, actually, this could be a good location game.
Speaker: Because if you have like a barbecue area or you have like a, you know, some sort of restaurant with an arcade attached or a pinball area, I would definitely put some money into it.
Speaker: You know, there are tiers that I consider successful tiers.
Speaker: So is this a, would I, if I saw it and I had five bucks in my pocket, would I put the $5 in for the three games?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's my, like my lowest level, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Would I do that for, there are some games where I'd walk up and I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing that.
Speaker: This is definitely in that, Hey, I'm going to do that.
Speaker: And if it were, if with those three games,
Speaker: if I felt like, Hey, this is a fun game.
Speaker: This has fun call outs.
Speaker: This is a, you know, one thing that was great about medieval madness and attack from Mars and even cactus Canyon, the call outs were hilarious.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so by your experiencing that, you're like, you know what?
Speaker: That gave me a giggle.
Speaker: I'm willing to put some more money into it.
Speaker: And as long as I'm getting my money's worth, I will continue.
Speaker: So my first step is, will I put the $5 in for the three games?
Speaker: Then will I go back?
Speaker: If I had 20 bucks in my pocket that night, would I put $20 into that?
Speaker: And then you get to, would I come back to play that game?
Speaker: And eventually you're going to get to the point where you say, will I buy it and put it in my house?
Speaker: And then you say, is this a long-term keeper, a short-term keeper?
Speaker: And then you say, will I want the premium LE version?
Speaker: So there are a whole bunch of steps to what I consider a successful pinball machine.
Speaker: Where would my gut feeling be on this game?
Speaker: Probably be in the first two.
Speaker: It would be in the, am I willing to spend $5 on it?
Speaker: Am I willing to, if it's a fun experience, am I willing to spend the $20 on it?
Speaker: And if I go back to that restaurant again, will I go and visit it?
Speaker: So that's probably where it lands for me.
Speaker: Well, and I guess as you were talking about that, I was wondering if there's anything that you could do to make it more successful.
Speaker: Like it is a barbecue theme.
Speaker: If you had barbecue brands tied in, would that help?
Speaker: I just, I don't know how much people are clamoring for a barbecue game.
Speaker: And like you said, yeah, location wise it might, but.
Speaker: The theme is a throwaway theme.
Speaker: It is a, you know, it'd be the equivalent of hot rod.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: Overall, price wise, I mean, seven grand is not bad for.
Speaker: It's not bad.
Speaker: Not bad for entry game.
Speaker: And even the limited edition limited at 100 at 8500 isn't terrible.
Speaker: I am slightly concerned, though.
Speaker: I've heard that people that have looked under the hood said they have went a little cheaper on the what they're putting into the games now.
Speaker: I don't know how much truth there is to that.
Speaker: I don't know how you test that.
Speaker: outside of like just looking at what's in the game, you know, the last ability.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it'll be interesting to see how this is received by the community later on and see how it stands the test of time.
Speaker: So let's move.
Speaker: Oh, go ahead.
Speaker: I would say though, ultimately it depends on the play.
Speaker: Like, if this is a fun game, then it will, then you still will have a successful game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it always depends.
Speaker: Like, the theme helps or hurts that, but eventually it's the play that keeps the last ability.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Let's, the next announcement.
Speaker: There's another game coming out.
Speaker: April 6th by Pinball Brothers.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And apparently it has a helicopter in it.
Speaker: Dook, dook, dook.
Speaker: Everyone's speculating ABBA.
Speaker: What are your thoughts, Scott?
Speaker: It would make sense.
Speaker: And they certainly haven't done anything to shoot down those rumors.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They have Queen, which is a big theme for some.
Speaker: ABBA is actually, there are a lot of kids.
Speaker: And when I say kids, I'm talking teenagers who are getting into the 70s and 80s music.
Speaker: which is, and it makes sense because this is music.
Speaker: You can, you can typically listen with your parents in the car because it doesn't have a lot of swear words.
Speaker: So they, no, I'm, I'm, I'm actually very serious that that's like when we were, when we were at the tennis tournament, every song they were playing,
Speaker: was pretty much a, it, it was from that era because it didn't have last words except for occasionally they put in like a, Oh, 50, 50 cent, which was like, if they could hear the lyrics on these things, they are not clean, but, um, ABBA has, has become a big deal, especially for kids.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So would ABBA make sense?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: I think ABBA is a great option to say they made it an Elton John pinball machine.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that theme is definitely resonating.
Speaker: They made two movies, you know, Mamma Mia and Mamma Mia, Care I Go, or whatever that show was twice.
Speaker: So this is a great option to look past the dad rock stuff.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: And it's going to be an interesting litmus test, in my opinion.
Speaker: And with it being Pinball Brothers, it is a European company.
Speaker: And so that does hit another demographic over there as well.
Speaker: And obviously ABBA is from over there in Europe.
Speaker: So it's going to be interesting to see how this goes.
Speaker: I think it's a good move.
Speaker: I think it's something everyone's going to be... Especially if you haven't watched the video yet, go to NAP Arcade.
Speaker: They have a video of the helicopter lock mech, and it's pretty cool.
Speaker: But if it is ABBA, I'd like to see it.
Speaker: I'm not much of an ABBA fan, so...
Speaker: I'm not on the list, but gameplay can always change my mind.
Speaker: And it does look like the helicopter on one of their albums.
Speaker: Like their fourth album, did I hear that?
Speaker: Yes, Arrival, their fourth album.
Speaker: So if you want to check this out, like I said, Saturday, April 6th at 6pm, they are going to be showing it at the Clarion Hotel in Sweden.
Speaker: I bet they'll have some kind of... I know they're going to do
Speaker: They've got tagged on their Facebook.
Speaker: So maybe they'll do a live through the Facebook.
Speaker: We're not entirely for sure, but I guarantee video is probably going to show up of it somehow, some way, regardless.
Speaker: So speaking of other rumor games, Stern's coming up and due for another one.
Speaker: John Borg's in the pipeline.
Speaker: We know that for sure.
Speaker: But the rumored game is John Wick.
Speaker: Would you like to see a Stern John Wick pinball machine?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I know that John Wick is a huge franchise.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I have not seen one of them.
Speaker: Or if I... So, okay, this is the challenge when you go outside of... And I know I just bagged on the dad rock, but everybody knows at least one song from...
Speaker: from Elton John, from Foo Fighters, Rush, Tom Sawyer, even if you're not a Rush fan, Metallica, you at least know you have some connection to this.
Speaker: And I know that John Wick went ballistic because they killed his dog or something.
Speaker: Yeah, that's all I know as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Now, however, I know it's a big deal.
Speaker: So if they did get the John, John wick license, then I think it, it definitely helps out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, how many John wick movies are there for, they just came out with chapter four within the last year or two.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And they just came out with it, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So at least it's a hit.
Speaker: Cause we know they're not going to do, um,
Speaker: we know they're not going to do a unproven title anymore because that's where they got into what was that terrible game that...
Speaker: that George Gomez tried to get out of.
Speaker: You remember?
Speaker: Johnny Mnemonic.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Johnny Mnemonic.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, so they're, they're trying to avoid that kind of, I mean, even Iron Man is really Iron Man two.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because they waited until that became a big thing.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So it certainly makes sense to capitalize on the popularity of that.
Speaker: And there are tons of people who are huge fans.
Speaker: I believe Aaron Rodgers even like grew his hair out to dress up like John Wick for one Halloween.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: So, you know, at least Aaron Rodgers is buying an Ellie.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I heard that Keanu Reeves has – he kills more people in those movies than the actual words he says in those movies.
Speaker: That's kind of funny, actually.
Speaker: I don't know if that's true.
Speaker: Sure, why not?
Speaker: You know, I think Borg and John Wick is a very brilliant match.
Speaker: I think –
Speaker: He's brutal at his games.
Speaker: And so it's going to be, if you want a brutal game with a brutal theme, you got it.
Speaker: Here it is.
Speaker: So I think people will be excited, but that's all we know.
Speaker: Would you April time?
Speaker: Would you try to go and if you had your wishlist though, would you try to go with spanning all of them or would you just dial in on the first movie?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I've heard the way it's set up.
Speaker: It's very like Lord of the Rings-esque where like one through... They're complete sets.
Speaker: And the only reason it got split up is because... Well, first off, because Tolkien was told to split it into three books because it was too long to be one book.
Speaker: Because it was like 3,000 pages.
Speaker: It's like one through three is kind of... It's kind of like its own complete novel.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And for who into what was, we want to make more money.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I just know that John Wick...
Speaker: All I know is he kills people.
Speaker: And so I don't know if this is like a transporter situation with Jason Statham and they all kind of link together kind of thing.
Speaker: I don't know if it's more of the action.
Speaker: You're asking the wrong person.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But you're going to, you're going to agree with me that this would be considered an A-list property.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: This, this is something that is a desirable match.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: And when was the last mature thing that it would... Would Elvira be considered mature?
Speaker: Elvira, you could probably say that.
Speaker: Elvira is dancing into that PG-13 humor.
Speaker: Walking Dead is definitely that mature type.
Speaker: And Borg... That's a Borg.
Speaker: Yeah, Borg tends to do it.
Speaker: Metallica, I would argue, is typically not a... You know, that's...
Speaker: It's probably in the PG-13 category.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it makes sense with John Borg.
Speaker: Rush is more of a passion project, I guess, for Borg.
Speaker: So the next game we're going to talk about, because I feel like we've talked about, as much as we can get out of that one, we've got it.
Speaker: So moving on, Ninja Eclipse.
Speaker: This is a game that I played at NBall Expo this last fall.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, remind me your first impressions of Ninja Eclipse.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: my first impressions and we talked about this.
Speaker: We had Don from Don's pinball podcast come on and we talked about, and I said, it looked like a zizzle and it felt very light.
Speaker: Because it kind of did actually.
Speaker: It did.
Speaker: The cabinet was like half the size of a standard cabinet, not like lengthwise, like play field wise, but like they just shortened it down.
Speaker: It was like a, it was like a diet cabinet.
Speaker: It was a cabinet light cabinet.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The game itself was all right.
Speaker: Like I enjoyed playing it, but outside of the fact that the flippers were really weak,
Speaker: Um, but it wasn't terrible.
Speaker: I think the, the thing that got me after I played it and what they announced was, is they were going to try to sell it for 10 grand.
Speaker: And I was just like, no way there is.
Speaker: We just confirmed that we actually did pull up the nap arcade, uh, discussion of that.
Speaker: And the, and I, I'm going to read exactly what Jason said in his article.
Speaker: Um, for,
Speaker: said that it's going to be, let's see, Ninja Eclipse is priced at $9,777.
Speaker: Production is limited to 100 first edition units.
Speaker: Now, we both balked at that.
Speaker: We balked at the price, and we balked at the image, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: If you can find this, maybe I should see if I can link the article.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: I would say that's in the past.
Speaker: Go look it up.
Speaker: The only reason I'm saying look it up, look at how much this has changed.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: For the article that just released four days ago.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This has gone through like a makeover.
Speaker: What is it?
Speaker: Like this is a pinball makeover show where they take something that's not working and they revealed it and.
Speaker: It looks so much better.
Speaker: It looks a lot better.
Speaker: It looks a lot better.
Speaker: It looks legit.
Speaker: Now I'd actually consider maybe buying one of these games looking at this.
Speaker: And they went from $9.777 to $69.94.
Speaker: And that's on the limited editions.
Speaker: They dropped almost $3,000 off for the 100 runs limited editions.
Speaker: So I'm impressed because it looks like they've added more to the game.
Speaker: and drop the price a lot less.
Speaker: I don't know what they were trying to accomplish beforehand, but it looks like they took all the feedback from Expo and said, this is what we're doing.
Speaker: The powder coat on this looks great.
Speaker: The purple powder coat, the original one only had black.
Speaker: I just, if, if you're interested, like I said, it is past, it is past, but,
Speaker: But the new one, it's good to see that someone took constructive criticism and changed.
Speaker: It looks better.
Speaker: Do you know what it gives me vibes of?
Speaker: It's vibes of Mulan and Dragon's Lair.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like that's the, that's the, the color scheme it's, it's going for the art style.
Speaker: And it actually has a coin door now, which it didn't have a, that was one of our biggest things to say, look on location.
Speaker: You are not going to have someone download an app just to play your game.
Speaker: It's not going to happen.
Speaker: Nope.
Speaker: It looks like it will fit next to other games and not look at a place.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: The play field looks... You know what?
Speaker: It looks better.
Speaker: And it could just be that it looks better because it is presented in a better environment.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Maybe, yeah.
Speaker: But it does look better.
Speaker: So is this something that I would consider taking a flyer on at just under $7,000?
Speaker: Maybe actually like, okay.
Speaker: I would not have taken a flyer on it at the other price and the other presentation.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: But I would consider it on this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was, it was, I'd hate to say this, but it was laughable at 10 K. Yeah.
Speaker: So, but this looks like it, and it looks like something that kids would really like, like the, the visual presentation of it.
Speaker: It looks like something that kids would like.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So good luck to them.
Speaker: The only other thing that changed to back in October, they were only asking for 150 to deposit.
Speaker: Now they're asking for a full thousand, but they're claiming that's fully refundable.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That, that is entirely up to you guys how you want to take that, but yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: New and even has like a link, new cabinet, new price.
Speaker: So, Hey, the whole secret to a successful company is taking feedback from,
Speaker: and implementing that feedback.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Now you can't always implement everything.
Speaker: And as we have talked with Elwin before, when he said, look, before I got in the industry, I had exactly the same questions all y'all do and exactly the same concerns.
Speaker: And he said, when you get into the industry, you say, oh,
Speaker: They actually have the same questions and their reasons why they don't do what we're suggesting.
Speaker: Like have the shark eat the ball, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So good for him.
Speaker: Good for him for pivoting and trying to make it work.
Speaker: Oh, the other thing on Ninja Eclipse, they didn't have a plunger before.
Speaker: It was an auto plunger and they've actually added in a physical plunger now too.
Speaker: Which makes it look like a real game, right?
Speaker: I'm a real game.
Speaker: Well, okay, but... Okay, that's funny.
Speaker: But most games, aside from the other games, like, when's the last game that had a button plunger?
Speaker: Probably Pinball 2000.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: I mean, all the P3s do because they can't actually put a physical puncher.
Speaker: Yeah, okay.
Speaker: I'm talking your standard and I'm not going to say the fake pinball because P3 we know is a real pinball company and a pinball machine.
Speaker: But let's say that people want, because part of your code is going to be about varying your plunge.
Speaker: So, you know, we have...
Speaker: Medieval Madness.
Speaker: We have Attack from Mars.
Speaker: We even have, you know, even Cacus Canyon had a pole plunge, though.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that it makes sense to say, no, we want this to look like other games.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Alrighty, moving on.
Speaker: We have.
Speaker: Do we want to talk?
Speaker: Speaking of P3, do we want to talk Princess Bride at all?
Speaker: We did talk a lot last episode about Princess Bride.
Speaker: And did kind of full coverage there.
Speaker: We're hearing people are loving it down at Texas Pinball Festival.
Speaker: The only complaint, which is this is the same complaint as always, like it's become an echo chamber and like kind of a mute point at this point that the buttons aren't tied together.
Speaker: That's the only thing I've heard that are like.
Speaker: Why can't they be on the same button?
Speaker: Yeah, and that's more of a P3 analysis or feedback than a Princess Bride feedback, right?
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: But when you and I played, like Weird Al is their last big reveal, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I guess they had, I'm sorry, they actually had Scott Deneese's game.
Speaker: Yeah, they had Final Resistance too.
Speaker: But it was a fun game to play.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So if you're going to buy, if you're going to jump into the P3 market, I mean, you have Final Resistance, you have Princess Bride, you have Weird Al.
Speaker: When you add those all together, you can probably get all of, like, in even a few more modules, you can probably get, you know, like four games for under $20,000.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: I'm just adding them up in my head.
Speaker: That's basically for Pro Stern.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: The knock is you can't play them at once.
Speaker: You have to swap them out.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: But if you still are limited on space, but you want to try it, hey, Princess Bride, we have said if you're looking for an A theme, that's an A theme.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think we did talk plenty about that last episode.
Speaker: Let's move on.
Speaker: We're seeing some great homebrews.
Speaker: So two were just announced.
Speaker: These games look amazing.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: uh let's let's talk motorhead first brad albright he's been on the show he did our work for our shoes he did all the art for motorhead he originally did it for led zeppelin that's actually how we got to know him is he did the led zeppelin homebrew as well yep killed on this motorhead it looks amazing and david peck is the one that made this he was also the led zeppelin amazing i just holy crap and uh i i guess
Speaker: Steve Ritchie approves, man.
Speaker: I guess they got a pitcher and he said that that is amazing.
Speaker: That is the best homebrew he's ever played.
Speaker: So actually, this is David Peck did this from scratch.
Speaker: You can look if you're if you're really intrigued, you can go on pin side.
Speaker: It's called announcing motorhead pinball and it shows it from a whitewood.
Speaker: It's actually not a remake of any pinball machine.
Speaker: This is from the ground up.
Speaker: And it's very much a throwback to that, like Gottlieb, Stern.
Speaker: Centaur.
Speaker: It has the total centaur vibe.
Speaker: It's the red, white, and silver.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Black, white, silver, red.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And this game looks...
Speaker: Pretty amazing.
Speaker: It looks pretty good.
Speaker: It looks pretty awesome.
Speaker: And even has like, I love the, I love the flippers on the right, the double flippers on the right that have that, that, that suicide gap, where if you try to trap up on the lower flipper at a, you drain.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: I mean, this game, honestly, I would not be shocked if pinball manufacturers were approaching David Peck this weekend and ask him, hey, can we buy this from you?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because it looks good.
Speaker: It looks pretty good.
Speaker: I want to know.
Speaker: I want people to comment.
Speaker: If you were at TPF, comment on our Facebook, comment on this episode.
Speaker: We want to know how this played because it looks great.
Speaker: It looks really good.
Speaker: So yeah, it looks awesome.
Speaker: And wow, it's visually it looks I, I, Hey, Brad.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: You're really good at your job.
Speaker: It's crazy.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Uh, another homebrew that came out this weekend that has been under wraps.
Speaker: We've known about it for a little bit.
Speaker: Uh,
Speaker: Saw Pinball.
Speaker: I'm so glad this is finally being revealed.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm not a horror fan.
Speaker: I just, yeah, it's not, not my thing.
Speaker: However, there are tons of people who are.
Speaker: But this game, holy crap.
Speaker: So this one is actually a repurposed play field.
Speaker: This is an old whirlwind play field.
Speaker: If you look really close, you can, you can tell it's what's funny though.
Speaker: It was like,
Speaker: I mean, yeah, if you really look, you can tell, but this looks nothing like World Wind.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And the spinning saw blades in the game, the hacksaw plunger, the reverse bear trap or whatever the heck that topper is.
Speaker: I mean, this game...
Speaker: this game is amazing.
Speaker: Holy crap.
Speaker: Like, right.
Speaker: It astounds me at home.
Speaker: It's amazing what homebrew can do, right?
Speaker: Like it.
Speaker: It's amazing to me mainly that you see, I totally understand why licensors are jealous of their property and they want to present it in a certain way.
Speaker: And the example that I can think of is, um,
Speaker: When Star Wars, when kids stopped buying the action figure doll things and they tried to repurpose them into something else.
Speaker: And they they made it's kind of laughable because you remember the the Star Wars figures that were kind of like stick figures, almost like from the 70s.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And they had ones that looked like He-Man.
Speaker: And so, so it was like, so the joke was Han Solo flex because he looked like a big He-Man guy, which is totally not how Star Wars goes.
Speaker: So I understand why licensors are like, no, we like the way we present things.
Speaker: We like the, it's a, it's a tried and true way of doing it.
Speaker: However, when you give someone the opportunity to run with it,
Speaker: you can have some amazing results that, that would surprise the original licensor to say, yeah, we should have done that in the first place.
Speaker: 100%.
Speaker: And this is, this is a great example.
Speaker: This had a team come together as well.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: This had a great team that came together as well.
Speaker: If you want to check out the nap arcade right up on this one, we want to shout out to Glenn Wechter who did the sound and everything on that.
Speaker: Amazing job.
Speaker: Glenn's always a good friend.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There is plenty of people down there looking at these things.
Speaker: I would not be shocked if they got approached afterwards either saying, Hey, you guys want to sell this game to us?
Speaker: Cause Holy crap.
Speaker: This is amazing.
Speaker: Obviously, it's going to have to be tweaked a little bit if it's a world.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It's a Pat Lawler design.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But you could do.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, it looks so good.
Speaker: It looks so good.
Speaker: And the the theme looks like the lighting of it.
Speaker: It looks so good.
Speaker: You know how sometimes, you know, this is, I don't want to get in trouble here, but there are some things where you see the lighting that is presented and it doesn't seem consistent with the theme.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so if something feels a little bit more like a like a carnival game or a or a slot machine or something that doesn't really match what what the theme that you're trying to do.
Speaker: This is bright.
Speaker: It's popping and it is definitely LED heavy, but it looks so good with the saw theme.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So that's the right way of doing it.
Speaker: So I've got to ask you a question.
Speaker: This is starting to... I've heard this floating around.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We've got Saw.
Speaker: We've got Motorhead.
Speaker: The thing about Motorhead, it's from the ground up, right?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: But the coder is Matt Kemp, who works for Spooky Pinball.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: When do we start crossing the line?
Speaker: If we're getting professional coders on these games, when do we start crossing the line of it's no longer homebrew?
Speaker: Because honestly, these two games look like production quality games.
Speaker: They do.
Speaker: Do you know what it looks like?
Speaker: Okay, just looking at this, you know, like Frankenstein.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, John Black's Frankenstein from.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's a theme that may not be well known, but you're like, you're like, yeah, this seems like it could have been a production game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like if you put these three together, if you put Motorhead, Saw and Frankenstein and said, pick which one was the production game.
Speaker: You would not choose Frankenstein.
Speaker: No, well, but you're also putting it up against a 90s game.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I totally get it.
Speaker: I get it.
Speaker: But you're going to be surprised by the quality of this.
Speaker: Maybe this isn't fair, and maybe we shouldn't do this.
Speaker: But if you were to put Motorhead, Saw, and Berryho's Barbecue Challenge in a row together, which one would you say is the absolute homeroo out of those three?
Speaker: Well...
Speaker: Yeah, it's... And we can just leave it at that.
Speaker: You can plead the fifth on this one.
Speaker: Yeah, you're certainly blurring the lines.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And I would point out that that's not really a knock on Barrio's barbecue.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: What it is is it's a compliment to Saw and Motorhead.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: Because they look professional.
Speaker: And even when, and we love Sonic, like the homebrew version of it, it still felt like a homebrew.
Speaker: Like the playfield layout still felt like a homebrew.
Speaker: This feels like, and I know Saw is a real layout, like a real production layout, but it still feels very much like, wow, this is a great game.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Well, and looking at, so like with, with, uh, motorhead, you've got David Peck who, who did everything mechanically and all that stuff.
Speaker: And then you had, you had Brad Albright obviously doing art.
Speaker: And then, like I said, Matt Kemp on code.
Speaker: With Saw, you have, it was spearheaded and programmed by Austin Kerrigan, Eric Colts, and Joe Farnsworth on engineering, and then Glenn Wechter on music and cos.
Speaker: This is a four-man team.
Speaker: The other one's a three-man team.
Speaker: And these are starting to turn into, these homebrews are almost turning into like a 1990s
Speaker: pinball team.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And to be, to make a good machine, that's actually what you want.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: You want someone, Glenn's great with music and all that.
Speaker: So yes, you're going to want someone who specializes in that to, you know, to actually do the part that they're good at.
Speaker: That's, that's a whole, like, uh, that's economics.
Speaker: It's a specialization.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: I've just got to say, I got to take my hat off to you guys.
Speaker: It's, this is amazing.
Speaker: Both teams, hands down.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: Let's move on.
Speaker: We still have a couple more things to cover.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Foo Fighters accessories.
Speaker: I do like that.
Speaker: They actually planned this out and said, Hey,
Speaker: this is what we're doing.
Speaker: We're going to do an official release date for these accessories.
Speaker: I think either a, you, you release it with the game like they have in the past with some games or you do this, you set a special date.
Speaker: So that way it's just got some random Tuesday.
Speaker: Hey, by the way, the topper is dropping today.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Uh,
Speaker: My opinion on these accessories, these are pretty awesome.
Speaker: People are complaining about the $2,000 price tag.
Speaker: It's kind of where Stern is resting at right now with their games.
Speaker: And honestly, it seems like anything with a moving head on it
Speaker: commands at 2k at least that's what they've learned does it look like it's moving just side to side though yeah it looks like it's just moving side to side it's not like black knight that goes up and down and around um but then again you look at turtles which was another 2k and it was just the eye on top of the technical drone turtles was 1k was it yeah turtles was one we'll agree to disagree on that one no i'm gonna look it up
Speaker: Okay, but my point being is this is a pretty good looking topper.
Speaker: It's pretty awesome.
Speaker: I don't know if there's more to this topper.
Speaker: I've heard rumors that there's $1,000.
Speaker: Turtles was $1,000.
Speaker: Never mind then.
Speaker: I apologize.
Speaker: So the first one that jumped up to this point was Mandalorian.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Mandalorian was $2,000.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: What about the Stranger Things one?
Speaker: Stranger Things was like a thousand bucks.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So Mando's, I guess you're right, Mando.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't think this is a 2K topper than if you're going to put next to Mando.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't think it is.
Speaker: Stranger Things, well, I see it just Googling.
Speaker: I see it for about 700 bucks.
Speaker: I'm not going to fight you on that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it's that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We are getting to the point, though, when I look at a topper and I say, that's not worth it.
Speaker: And sadly, I bought the Rush topper for $1,800 or $1,600.
Speaker: I think it was like $1,700.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Because I have the limited edition.
Speaker: There is a point.
Speaker: It makes sense.
Speaker: And it actually, it does look good.
Speaker: The challenge is, okay, I'm just going to pull up inside.com and I'm going to pull up Foo Fighters.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So let's just pull up Foo Fight.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Foo Fighters.
Speaker: And let's just see what a pro Foo Fighters is going for.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Any idea?
Speaker: 6,500.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There are some that are, yeah, you're looking between 6,000 and 6,300.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So let me just look at what this is offering.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So you have, sorry, I'm trying to get back to my, I have so many tabs opening.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm going to close some of these.
Speaker: So, okay, so you have, where is it?
Speaker: You have to edit some of this out.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We didn't talk about road trip yet, did we, or did we?
Speaker: No, not yet.
Speaker: Yeah, okay.
Speaker: So, okay, so you can get back on.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I'm pulling out and saying that we have the topper at one 90.
Speaker: I'm going to round these because it makes it easier.
Speaker: $2,000 for a topper.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Expression lighting kit, 500 bucks.
Speaker: Shooter rod, 225 side armor, 225 art blades, a hundred bucks.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So what does that come up into the game?
Speaker: So the grand total there, you're like around $3,000, a little over $3,000.
Speaker: Yeah, $3,000.
Speaker: So you're looking at that and you're saying, okay, so this game is worth $6,200.
Speaker: Let's just say $6,100, $6,200.
Speaker: And I know this is the pro.
Speaker: But let's just say, okay, so let's, okay, the accessories are not worth half of the game.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: We can agree with that, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so we have the premium.
Speaker: Okay, I see a premium for sale at $7,200.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I see a premium for sale for 7,000, 8,500, 8,000.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So we're, we're dropping value quickly on the secondary market on these, on these.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so, okay, here's my suggestion.
Speaker: If, if this is your game and you really want to do it, go ahead.
Speaker: And, and heaven knows I have bought tons of accessories.
Speaker: Basically every game that I have right now, except for iron maiden has a topper.
Speaker: Because when I bought Iron Maiden, they were not making the toppers.
Speaker: But if you're looking at this, this is where you may want to consider as a used buyer.
Speaker: If you're looking at that, that you could say, well, how, if I really want all that stuff, do I want to wait until I can find one that someone else has paid the premium on that?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then you can say, hey, this has the topper.
Speaker: This has the... Because we saw that with Beatles, right?
Speaker: People said, hey, Beatles is going for this and it has a topper.
Speaker: Well, you couldn't buy the topper alone, but you could buy the machine with a topper.
Speaker: And you could definitely significantly drop that investment cost.
Speaker: And I...
Speaker: if you love the game, then I say, go ahead, you know, bling it out, do whatever you want.
Speaker: I am, I am concerned that we are getting too ridiculous category where it's no long, it no longer feels that, Hey, if you want this game and you want to spend a little more and get the nice version, this feels a little bit like a price gouge from Stern.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I think here's the other problem too, is accessories,
Speaker: They're not like bread and butter, right?
Speaker: Like the pinball machine is the bread and butter for Stern.
Speaker: And I think what we're going to start seeing is not necessarily price gouging, but we're trying to make up pricing because Venom didn't do well at all.
Speaker: And Jaws is doing pretty good, but who knows where John Wick's going to land if it is John Wick with John Borg.
Speaker: And so the question is, because pre-COVID, I mean, we're four years after COVID now, right?
Speaker: But pre-COVID, these machines, respectively, were, you know, Pro was at like 61, 62.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Premium was like, it was high sevens, low eights, I want to say.
Speaker: And then your LEs were under 10.
Speaker: And we jumped, you know, a lot.
Speaker: I mean, your LE went up three, four grand.
Speaker: Your premium went up almost $1,700.
Speaker: And then your pros went up almost $1,000.
Speaker: And so my question is, I guess to everyone that's sitting here listening, wondering about this, is –
Speaker: has all the pinball companies put themselves in a pickle at this point?
Speaker: Because if you do drop the price, it automatically devalues everything that's been bought in the last four years.
Speaker: There is a cascade effect.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Definitely is a cascade effect.
Speaker: And it sends shockwaves, exactly what you're saying.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: it becomes it's like well do we keep prices where they are even though we're selling less units and try to find money elsewhere or do we drop price and i guarantee every company because look at look at barrio's barbecue challenge it's it's 69.95 galactic tank force bottom one wasn't that i want to say it was like 75 i could be wrong um i mean turner pinball apparently just dropped theirs three grand you see what i'm saying like we're we're
Speaker: we're looking at pinball prices are starting to drop across the board.
Speaker: Granted Stern is the big dog.
Speaker: They have a lot more wiggle room than the rest of them do.
Speaker: And they're not hurting as much as other companies.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: They're not, they're still selling games.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: So it's going to be intriguing to see what happens this next couple of years.
Speaker: If we see, I think the $2,000 price tag is to kind of help make up for some money that may not be there from previous titles.
Speaker: I could be wrong, though.
Speaker: Like you said, a game like this, it's a $1,000 topper.
Speaker: Now, the one thing I don't have access to, and...
Speaker: And our good friend Josh Sharp pointed this out when I was railing about topper prices back in the day.
Speaker: It's like the one thing you don't have is any numbers to back up your argument.
Speaker: And I totally appreciate that.
Speaker: I appreciate that.
Speaker: I don't have access to their sales.
Speaker: I don't have access to their margins.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: This is me looking at a topper and saying that they're probably...
Speaker: I'm guessing on a build a material for a machine, you're probably looking at about 55 to maybe 60% is build materials.
Speaker: And they're working with a 45 to 40% margin.
Speaker: The total price of the game, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: These, if you look at these things and there is...
Speaker: maybe 20%.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like that topper does not cost more than $400 to make.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: There's no chance.
Speaker: And so this is definitely a high margin thing.
Speaker: Would they sell a bunch more at a lower price?
Speaker: Yeah, they would.
Speaker: Now, is it worth it to them to lower the price and to sell?
Speaker: It seems like the answer is no.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because they are showing with the product and their pricing that they are more interested in whatever sales numbers and sales margin they're getting from that product.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Go ahead.
Speaker: Go ahead.
Speaker: I was just going to say the other thing too is prices have –
Speaker: your bill of material that you've been talking about prices of those haven't come down since COVID as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So we do have to take that factor as well too.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: The, and the, the challenge is what this does is eventually.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You're not, you're probably not old enough to remember this.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Just say, just throwing this out there.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The movie that actually is,
Speaker: from my recollection, totally broke the mold for home ownership of a product was Top Gun.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Because there's a reason why they had video rental places that you were paying a couple bucks to rent Star Wars or whatever it was, is because they were selling the movies for 75 bucks.
Speaker: And this is back in like 1983 or whatever.
Speaker: TopCon was released in 86.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Oh, no, I know.
Speaker: But what I'm saying is before that, the prices for these, if you wanted to buy the actual, if you wanted to buy a non-bootleg,
Speaker: That's the bottom line.
Speaker: If you want to buy a product from Paramount Pictures, it was like $75 to buy Return of the Jedi or whatever.
Speaker: And I know that's not Paramount, that's Fox.
Speaker: But when Top Gun came out, they started advertising, hey, you want Top Gun? $19.95.
Speaker: Like, like you can buy it from us.
Speaker: You can buy the original because what was happening is they were losing so much money to bootleggers or people who would rent like back in the day, people would rent a movie.
Speaker: They would have a VCR attached to another VCR and they would just copy it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so they had the, like back in the eighties, like watch the Goldbergs walk, walk into someone's VCR collection.
Speaker: And it was all a whole bunch of like handwritten labels on these movies because they were all bootlegged.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So what you're doing when you start setting these prices at what they are,
Speaker: is you are giving incentive for people to look at unlicensed products as an alternative.
Speaker: And whether or not, now we all have seen them, the unlicensed toppers, and I'm not promoting this at all,
Speaker: But outside of the country, there are people who basically take the artwork, Zombie Yeti's art, and they screen print it on a piece of plastic and they sell it for $275.
Speaker: And people put it on their machine.
Speaker: And that's going to increase the incentive for people to do that if they want a topper look on a game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's easier to bootleg a topper or, you know, a shooter rod.
Speaker: The game itself, there's just no way.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: But the side armor, you can definitely buy alternative versions of laser cut side armor for $100.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So, no, I get you.
Speaker: I think, like I said, I think we're really in the Wild West of pinball pricing at the moment because I don't think anyone has the answer.
Speaker: there's a lot of variable factors.
Speaker: Like you said, we don't have the numbers.
Speaker: We don't see behind the scenes of those numbers.
Speaker: No one does besides the higher ups at work at Stern.
Speaker: So we're just trending at where newer games are coming out price-wise.
Speaker: I bet we see some shift here in the next couple of years.
Speaker: Where that shift goes, I don't know.
Speaker: And I said shift.
Speaker: I kind of said, okay, lost the F in it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oops.
Speaker: You know, I will also argue that I am not super interested in Stern's shooter rods.
Speaker: Me neither.
Speaker: They kind of stink to be, to be frank.
Speaker: And this is, this is a physics thing.
Speaker: You feel a shooter rod.
Speaker: That's an OEM shooter rod.
Speaker: And then you compare it to the shooter odds.
Speaker: Now I have three extra shooter odds that I have put in my games.
Speaker: I have rush.
Speaker: I have a Avengers infinity quest, and I also have Jurassic park.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: They stink.
Speaker: Because they are heavier than the OEM one.
Speaker: And I'm not kidding how ridiculous it is on Avengers Infinity Quest.
Speaker: The cool shooter rod that you pay extra for, you pull it back into a full plunge and it doesn't even make it all the way around.
Speaker: You have to auto plunge it to make it all the way around.
Speaker: And Rush is kind of the same way, but you kind of do want a short plunge on Rush so it's not as big of a deal.
Speaker: But the fact that...
Speaker: They obviously don't care.
Speaker: Like you're supposed to.
Speaker: You put in more concise string to it.
Speaker: Yeah, you can, but you shouldn't have to modify something that's a licensed accessory from the manufacturer.
Speaker: No, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker: I agree with you.
Speaker: They should be putting the spring in at the factory as they're assembling it.
Speaker: They should make sure that the pull, like how far you pull back the shooter rod is.
Speaker: on a custom like knob is going to give you the same force.
Speaker: This is a physics equation.
Speaker: This has nothing to do because it's the moment of inertia because you have a heavier piece of plastic on the shooter rod.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the one thing you don't want to do is pay more to upgrade a game and you get a less like a worse experience than something that is 6,000 bucks out of the box.
Speaker: No, I agree.
Speaker: So I think, I think we've talked about this one.
Speaker: So I drove that into the ground, but I, okay.
Speaker: Tell me if I'm wrong.
Speaker: If you, if you think I'm wrong, it's fine.
Speaker: Tell me I'm wrong.
Speaker: Tell Scott.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Tell me actually send it to Josh.
Speaker: Cause Josh checks all the email.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Uh, tilt Bob, Bob pinball, a new pinball company has officially revealed their game road trip.
Speaker: Not the full game though.
Speaker: Just like the lower, like,
Speaker: Two thirds.
Speaker: They've like confidential stuff over the top or top third.
Speaker: I'm going to go first.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: This is you go, go.
Speaker: This looks like another division of like pinball adventures from the like almost children book artwork on the play field to the concept.
Speaker: It just, it's,
Speaker: It's not for me.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It's a no for me dog, as Randy would say off of American Idol, like, what, 30 years ago?
Speaker: Okay, so why would you say that?
Speaker: I know you're just saying on presentation.
Speaker: Presentation.
Speaker: The game looked like it was really fun to shoot.
Speaker: Like...
Speaker: as the guy's shooting it, I don't fully understand what that left ramp is doing.
Speaker: It looks like you hit it, and it kind of just dumps it in the upper play field.
Speaker: I don't know if there's something up there they're trying to hide.
Speaker: I mean, obviously they are, because it's a confidential thing.
Speaker: But it just...
Speaker: I guess this is the hard part, right?
Speaker: Like, okay.
Speaker: Well, let's talk Ninja Eclipse from like six months ago.
Speaker: Like if you were like, if you were comparing, it'd probably be a no from there.
Speaker: But I think if tilt Bob reverses course on some of this, if they get some well-known names from the pinball industry in there that know what they're doing just to give them some advice, I'm not saying to come in and like pay them to remake the thing.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Just, just get some good constructive criticism to make this better because as it sits right now, I have no interest in this game.
Speaker: That's just me.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Now this is still in the, Hey, we're revealing it and it's getting like, this is not a production ready game, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you can't buy it right now.
Speaker: Nope.
Speaker: And it says it probably still won't be ready.
Speaker: It says it should be ready by the end of 2024.
Speaker: If I remember correctly.
Speaker: So it's, it's not making a public.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it's public day as nap says public debut in 2024.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: So yeah, this, okay.
Speaker: I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker: They have the screen in the play field, which makes you think of alien, right?
Speaker: Back in the day.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like the original alien.
Speaker: It also has, uh,
Speaker: You know, it has wire form ramps that actually I would say look like pretty good.
Speaker: They're colored, they're powder coated, which makes you think a little bit of like Roller Coaster Tycoon, right?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: The artwork does feel very much like an 80s game, or it feels very much like, you know, those carpets that you buy for your kids' rooms that have, like, the... And this is not an insult.
Speaker: Yeah, it's like... Yeah, you have a Matchbox card, and you go around, and you go... That's what it looks like.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: We know that... Okay, it does look professional, though.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It does look like they did put some effort onto the artwork.
Speaker: The cows seem strange.
Speaker: Like, do the cows move?
Speaker: Because it kind of looks like there's a slot on the cows.
Speaker: Yeah, actually, they're pop-up targets.
Speaker: Yeah, you hit them and they drop down.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So they seem different, but...
Speaker: Maybe they're going for a – this is definitely someone that would go for a family theme.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Is Road Trip something that people are clamoring for?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: But if it's a fun shooter – It has been done before.
Speaker: It has been, yeah.
Speaker: If it's a fun shooter and it has interesting call-outs, maybe.
Speaker: PGC's Vacation.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Anywho.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It is a little puzzling that someone would go with with an unlicensed thing for a for a debut, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And there's a reason why Labyrinth went with, you know, Labyrinth.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Because I haven't had people contact me who Labyrinth for
Speaker: no apparent reason is like one of their favorite movies.
Speaker: I, I don't think that it doesn't connect at all with me because I saw it like six months ago and I just thought it was weird, but it does connect with some people.
Speaker: So going off something like this, is there no license that you could afford?
Speaker: Or maybe they're just thinking we're not going to make a thousand of these.
Speaker: And so they just want something safe, like America's most haunted.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Or something like that.
Speaker: Which really isn't a bad idea.
Speaker: Like really, I mean, America's most haunted was 125.
Speaker: So that makes sense.
Speaker: Good luck to them.
Speaker: Let's see.
Speaker: We're going to Expo.
Speaker: So I'm guessing maybe they'll have it there.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I'll play it.
Speaker: I'll give my thoughts.
Speaker: I would say initial impressions though.
Speaker: Initial impressions make me.
Speaker: Uh,
Speaker: Yeah, it just looks like too much of a throwback.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so I'm hoping that it's going to, you know, whatever their top secret thing up there is going to be really cool.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it's, you know, right now it's more of a curiosity than I'm really interested in buying this game.
Speaker: All right, let's talk the last rumor flying around right now.
Speaker: The new Bally Williams company.
Speaker: So I don't know if this is like separate from Pendretti because Pendretti was announced back in January.
Speaker: They are officially licensed with Planetary Pinball and they do plan on making remakes.
Speaker: Or if this is like a separate company entirely, but my money's on Pendretti.
Speaker: But the rumor is, is the remake coming out from them, the new Bally Williams company next month,
Speaker: is Funhaus, which would go in line with my Pedretti because they made Funhaus 2.0.
Speaker: It only makes sense if they already have the license for the 2.0.
Speaker: Why wouldn't you make?
Speaker: Honestly, Funhaus is a really good game, and I think it would do well as a remake.
Speaker: There are other ones that I would go with first.
Speaker: That's my gut feeling.
Speaker: I think if you already have production down, though, if you already have it already paid for, it's
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: They already have another pipeline.
Speaker: And it was received modestly alright.
Speaker: It was better than Whirlwind.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: I'm trying to think of... I'm pulling up the list of the Bally Williams games from the 90s.
Speaker: Okay?
Speaker: So give me a second.
Speaker: I think with this being an original theme, you're not fighting licensing either outside of if you've already got the planetary pinball license.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You're not fighting very much there as well.
Speaker: Plus you're already doing the upgrades to the mystery mirror.
Speaker: Like they did the little, the little, uh, LCD there.
Speaker: I just, I think it's a smart move.
Speaker: Like I said, if it is for sure, Pondretti making fun house, I just, I think it's a smart decision.
Speaker: I get it, but as fun house, like, Hey, I just throwing things out there.
Speaker: I would do a tales of the Arabian nights first.
Speaker: I'm not going to fight you on that.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I would also do theater magic before that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I would also do, if you can do it, Indiana Jones, the pinball adventure.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And they, they just made a new Indiana Jones movie that I know it didn't do super well, but my, my friend who sold his super awesome, uh,
Speaker: Indiana Jones, the Bally Williams game, the pinball adventure.
Speaker: He still says, you know, if they made that, I'd buy it right now.
Speaker: And his Tales of the Ruby Nights, he said the same thing.
Speaker: If they made that, I'd buy it right now.
Speaker: I don't feel the same way if they said, great, you know, there's a new fun house out there.
Speaker: And maybe it's just because I'm not the biggest Pat Lawler guy.
Speaker: Maybe I personally me, I think fun houses, his one of his best games he's made.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I, I think out of all the Pat Lawler designs I've played, fun house is one of where I'm still excited to play every time I play it.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: I think, okay.
Speaker: That's why I'm saying like, it's,
Speaker: Like I said, from a production standpoint, if you already own the licensing, you've already put money into development, which has 2.0, I just think it makes great business sense to get your company off the ground to begin with.
Speaker: I agree with you.
Speaker: There's probably better 90s games to start off with.
Speaker: But from a business standpoint, I think it's smart if they are going with that.
Speaker: It's still a solid game, and you are correct in saying that if you've already put some money into this theme, then maybe that's something to continue with.
Speaker: So I agree with you on that.
Speaker: And the secondary market, have you seen the secondary market for fun houses right now?
Speaker: It's insane.
Speaker: When I first got in, I thought $3,500 was insane for a fun house.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: For a fun house, this is not 2.0.
Speaker: This is just fun house straight out.
Speaker: You're still looking at high sixes, low sevens.
Speaker: So you're basically looking at Stern Pro.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: You're looking at Stern Pro.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I guess there's one in Jersey for $5,800.
Speaker: One in San Diego for $61.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: one apparently in Phoenix for 13,000.
Speaker: That's cell pounding.
Speaker: I don't know what, does it mean?
Speaker: 13,000 is what they're getting, but even the fun house 2.0 is, I wonder what people are trying to sell those 8,800 to 10, three.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker: One right now, if you want to buy in New York for 11K.
Speaker: There's three marketplace ads for Tales of the Arabian Nights.
Speaker: One's for 10,500, one's a trade, and one's 13,000 firm.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Another one, let's just look at, and I know we're playing what if.
Speaker: Yeah, we are definitely playing what if.
Speaker: Because, you know, you made the point that, hey, if you're going to do it, you probably just want to stick with what you've already made.
Speaker: Okay, so Indiana Jones, the Pinball Adventures, $11,250, $12,500.
Speaker: So you're still looking at an LE Stern.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The question is, do you have to fight Disney on the licensing on something like that?
Speaker: Because now they own Indiana.
Speaker: Okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker: It can't be that hard.
Speaker: They made like a billion of the Marvel movies.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: Like it can't be that.
Speaker: They made Star Wars.
Speaker: It can't be that hard to negotiate an existing product.
Speaker: This is not even a new product.
Speaker: Yeah, true.
Speaker: You're just re-upping a license from, or would you even be re-upping a license?
Speaker: Because you would, well, I guess if you do any changes from the original, I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Tell us your thoughts.
Speaker: Do you think Funhaus is a good game?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It wouldn't be a good one for me, but I understand from a business decision-making standpoint why they would do it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: so okay i think that pretty much does it for us scott we've been i don't know if after i edit this down yeah we we went a little long so sorry hopefully we uh you enjoyed the time we had together definitely and uh we got plenty coming up so uh like i said we were supposed to record last saturday uh and sadly both our guests had to bail so um
Speaker: Maybe we'll have an interview episode here soon.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: We're trying to still figure this out.
Speaker: Springtime is always kind of a weird time.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: But if you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: I need to start saying this at the beginning of the episode because we do have a YouTube.
Speaker: If you go there and press subscribe, it helps us out just because we can then like link.
Speaker: our silver ball swag if you want our t-shirts or if you'd like uh some shoes or whatever you can go to silverballswag.com slash loser kid we'd be able to attach that to our youtube i don't know why you have to have 500 subscribers but that's that's the agreement apparently you have to have all good uh facebook instagram x twitch youtube all at loser kid pinball and like i said again if you do want to get hold of us uh probably the best ways messenger on facebook but
Speaker: the Gmail does come straight to me, I will respond to that as well.
Speaker: As long as for some odd reason, my phone doesn't like to notify me to get Gmail.
Speaker: So I have to like manually update.
Speaker: You have to look at it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Other than that, what else you got for us, Scott?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I want feedback from Texas since we weren't able to go, we were living vicariously through you.
Speaker: So please give us your feedback from Texas and tell us what you like.
Speaker: Tell us what you were disappointed in and tell us what you're looking forward to in the next one.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And as we close this out, this is Glenn Wechter's Zep's Test Song.
Speaker: Enjoy.
