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Hyundai Inster, Ray Leddy Head of Marketing at Skoda Ireland & used EV bargains!
435 Plays1 month ago
In this first episode, the lads chat about some of the latest models in Ireland including the Hyundai Inster and the Peugeot 5008.
Ray Leddy, Head of Marketing at Skoda Ireland talks about the extraordinary growth of the Skoda brand in Ireland and Paddy proves that there's actually some true used EV bargains out there.
Hosted by Mark Noble and Paddy Comyn.
Brought to you in association with DoneDeal Motors.
www.youtube.com/NobbyOnCars
Paddy can be found @cartalkirl
Pod music by www.hawkjupiter.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Drivers Republic Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Drivers Republic Podcast, which is the latest motoring podcast to hit the world of podcasts, Paddy. Yes, another motoring podcast. But look, it's ah it's another Irish motoring podcast and and one that we've been discussing for some time. But ah
Plans for Season One
00:00:24
Speaker
but here we are. And um over the next but eight episodes anyway, for the start of season one, we're going to be bringing you lots of news, lots of reviews and lots of interviews as well from all around the Irish motoring scene.
00:00:37
Speaker
So Paddy Common is the voice you're hearing just now. ah by name is Mark Noble. ah Together we have ah a passion for cars, a background in automotive journalism, and but we've we've owned lots of cars equally.
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, we have, much to our detriment on some occasions, but yeah, we live and breathe motoring. So um look, like you guys out there, we like talking cars, so hopefully you'll join us along the way as we yeah we delve into the various different topics that really interest all of us as motoring fans.
Sponsorship by DoneDeal Motors
00:01:12
Speaker
And we need to start episode one with a mention to our very kind sponsors, ah because Drivers Republic podcast is brought to you in association with DoneDeal Motors, Ireland's favourite car buying website.
00:01:24
Speaker
With the widest selection of cars from certified trusted dealerships, most Irish drivers find their next car on Dundeele. Actually, so look straight in, then but it would off the script, first car out I ever bought on Dundeele was in Wexford.
First Cars and Fond Memories
00:01:39
Speaker
It was an Alfa GTV.
00:01:42
Speaker
Oh, not an Alpha GTV. my first ah My first car I inherited, which was a Mazda 626, very kindly inherited from my brother, which was, what a wonderful car, a 92 Reg Mazda 626. What a car.
00:01:55
Speaker
That also had pop-up pedlights, did it? No, that was a 323. Like the 323? No, the 626F was the sort of staple diet of of sales reps around the country for a while, but um but a great thing.
00:02:10
Speaker
Ha, ha, ha. OK, well, look, there will be lots of car chats, anecdotal car chats and some planned car chats on this podcast over the next ah eight weeks or so. Right. Let's let's get into it.
00:02:23
Speaker
Coming up, by the way, later on the podcast, we'll we'll be talking about ah used
Used EV Prices: A Hot Topic
00:02:27
Speaker
EV prices. If you're kind of in a space of should I pull the trigger? We might have some advice on that. Yeah, we do because, look, it's a hot topic at the moment. DVs in general are a hot topic. I know some of you guys out there hate them, but um I've been driving them for years. And the used DV situation is a cause of concern in some areas. But if you're buying one, we're going to discuss later how it can be. ah and Actually, there's lots of bargains out there and some really, really...
00:02:54
Speaker
and cheap and good product out there. Now, we're going to start this week, though, with ah roundup of some of the cars that we've been looking at that are cars that have been launched. And and obviously, Mark, you are i always out there with your finger on the pulse as to what cars are have been launched. We'll start, i think, with them a car that has been really
Hyundai Inster: Affordable EV
00:03:14
Speaker
interesting. One I'm interested in myself is the Hyundai Inster, which is a small EV,
00:03:22
Speaker
ah a raft of new small EVs are coming. We're going to talk about the Dacia spring in a while, but you were at the launch show of the Insta, I think was it was earlier this week or last week. Just, just last week, just, just gone.
00:03:35
Speaker
um It was last ah Monday at the Castelloc hotel. And Hyundai are, well, they're, they're promising big things with this car. I think they're talking about figures of what, about a thousand units this year.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, so basically for those who don't know or don't need to know, Hyundai Ireland are a private importer, so they will deal directly with the Hyundai factory. And they will say, we are fairly sure we can sell ah thousand cars this year, so can we have a thousand Instas, please?
00:04:08
Speaker
And usually what will happen is they might get 400 over the next few months. And if you're ah someone who's ordered an Insta and you're waiting on it, you'll know how that works, exactly how that works, because especially with a new car, production is only really getting going. So there is a little bit of a, not a huge delay, but certainly I think you'll be waiting two months to get one.
00:04:28
Speaker
and But they did give figures of about a thousand units ah if they were like they want to get their hands on that many units. And I mean, the thing driving this car's price really, or driving this car is the price.
00:04:39
Speaker
and Even the top spec, you're barely talking 22 grand. Yeah, give it, i mean, that sticker price, that entry price that people are talking about, $18,995. What does that get you, first of all?
00:04:52
Speaker
So that is a signature version, which doesn't have, so for example, the launch model, which is the same price as the the Elegance trim, is this buttercream color.
00:05:03
Speaker
ah It's, for anyone, the way I've described it, if anyone knows that Eddie Rocket secret sauce that you get on a burger, or you can buy in the shops now for yourself, it is that color. Right. It's like a greeny mustard.
00:05:16
Speaker
um Not quite Walter White green. it's not It's almost artificial limb color, is it? Kind of. So you get 15-inch wheels. ah You don't get an armrest, for example. there's there's i mean, there's not a huge, as we say, walk to the higher spec version. You're you're talking two or three grand wheels.
00:05:37
Speaker
Hyundai actually announced that they're going to be doing lower APR on this car. And one of the remarks that was made at the launch was they the used car, not just used EV, but just used car market is relatively strong.
00:05:52
Speaker
value-wise in Ireland at the moment. And for maybe something that is a couple years old in Hyundai i20 for 15 grand, for just a few more grand, you can have a brand new car with a full warranty.
00:06:05
Speaker
You know the history of the car. And I've had some people message me this week saying, even people who are, maybe you have college kids and apparently the done deal, no pun intended, sometimes is instead of paying rent for your kids in college, you'd buy them a small car so they can get it in and out of college.
00:06:24
Speaker
And the Inster is just one of those cars that will fill that gap for a lot of parents who can afford to buy their kids a new car to go to college in.
00:06:35
Speaker
And talk to us about the you know battery size, potential range, et cetera, because they're the all important questions with EVs, of course. So there's two battery sizes. There's not a huge difference between the battery sizes. that's the like The big battery is a 49 kilowatt hour battery and the smaller one is 42. They're gross figures, so you take a little bit off for your net.
00:06:56
Speaker
So the range on the the ah Elegance bigger battery is 360 kilometers
00:07:03
Speaker
and No, I actually collected Insta this morning and I'll be driving for the week. So I'll get a ah true sense of what it actually is from, from you know, 100% down to 20, whatever it is.
00:07:15
Speaker
um But having driven a little bit at the launch last week, I deliberately brought it onto the motorway. Around 10, it was doing sort of 13, 14 kilowatt hours per 100 kilometers in cold weather. Let's not forget as well. This this is not summertime.
00:07:28
Speaker
And then anywhere between sort of 18 and 21 kilowatt hours per 100 kilometers. on the motorway, which is not, not a few, I'm by no means a mathematician. Essentially those kilowatt hours are divided into, you could nearly call it two with the, the usual part of the battery.
00:07:47
Speaker
So you can estimate that you're, the minimum you're going to get is about 200 kilometers. Yeah. So that's looking in cold, in cold weather and driving it without necessarily paying attention to how you drive it. So, so that's pretty impressive. I mean, I think that the Koreans are probably,
00:08:03
Speaker
doing the best when it comes to batteries that perform in all sorts of conditions. And and you know you don't you don't see as much of a disparity between the performance in winter as you do in summer.
00:08:14
Speaker
And that seems to be the case with this car as well. who Who are they aiming this car at? Because like it's it's really, I think you know ah the the cars at this price are going to start to get in the wider audience for EVs. So know the fact that it's under 20 for most of them is really going to be breaking you ground in this segment, I think.
00:08:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's it's aimed at anyone who wants to buy a car at that price that happens to be new. um And like I've seen the photographs on some of the dealerships that are posting with their customers.
00:08:48
Speaker
Some people look like they're middle-aged. Some people look like they're quite young. There's couple of definitely retired people. and they They say, don't have any official data on this yet, but they they say in High and High Ireland from their they order books that it's definitely a car that is coming across the paths of younger customers than they would traditionally see.
Hyundai Inster: Space and Versatility
00:09:10
Speaker
And I think what's clever about this car, you've been in it and you're in it now, is is the space. It's a pretty generously sized car. It's a good use of space, isn't it? Yeah, so that's clever. is The boot is basically, it's quite a modular boot. So on the bigger, more expensive trim, you can do a few extra things like the rear bench will slide back and forward. Not the first time we've seen this. Renault have done this quite a bit and stuff like the captor.
00:09:34
Speaker
And I think the Clio, but also you need to get the higher spec version. This is where it's a little bit. at Come on, guys, to fold the passenger seats flat as well as the back seats.
00:09:44
Speaker
You got to pay for the the higher trim version. But if you do have that higher trim, your boot can essentially go so you can slide the the middle, to you know the rear bench forward. If you don't need anyone, let's say no one in the car in the back seats, you then get 351 litres.
00:09:58
Speaker
which is not far off a golf. But then if you do want the rear legroom, you've got 238 litres, which is, you know, about the size of a mini, basically. But... at least you have that option. And genuinely, like I parked up today and a neighbor of mine who's, she loves her cars.
00:10:14
Speaker
She came running up to have a look and she goes, God, like there's so much room in the back of it compared to the footprint of the car. And that's it. I mean, like i don't want to overdo it, but i I really love this little thing. It's clever.
00:10:28
Speaker
It's affordable. It doesn't feel cheap. And that's that's for me is key. It's like, it's genuinely a car I would recommend to a family member or a friend if they said to me, look, what's the Insta like?
00:10:39
Speaker
I would genuinely say, just go and buy it. But it shows, Mark, how quickly this segment has moved in the last couple of years. I mean, I bought a Volkswagen E-Up September 23 for 30,000 euro.
00:10:52
Speaker
um It has a much smaller battery. It's nowhere near as big, nowhere has nowhere near the the the ah the standard kit of that car. So, you know, for for what you can get now in an EV for the money at that entry point is really, really impressive.
00:11:07
Speaker
Totally, totally. and And it is, it's changing quite a bit and and pretty quickly. And speaking of VW, like it's two years nearly since I was at the world premiere of the ID.2.
00:11:19
Speaker
And we still have that is a car, but we still haven't seen. um and I'm hearing we will possibly see more of it before the end of this year. But if I was sitting in front of Andy Mint, the designer or Thomas Schaefer, who's running VW, I'd say, what has taken you so long?
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, because I know you're going to be seeing the ID.1 as well in the coming weeks. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I presume that'll
VW's EV Rollout Delays
00:11:45
Speaker
take longer. You know, things like the Fiat Panda, which was recently launched, they were waiting on a specific platform for that car. That's why it took so long.
00:11:52
Speaker
um But VW, I just like, they must be looking on at some of these competitors going, guys, we're not even at the races. I get the feeling that they have torn up some of the...
00:12:06
Speaker
pages they've done before i i feel like they've looked at what's come the likes of the reno 5 and they've looked at some of the competition and i think they've probably had a rethink of some of the models that they had coming down the line so i wouldn't be surprised if the id1 is is a new e a change from what maybe they had planned originally but uh that's just a hunch i have sticking with that sort of cheap ev offering um i suppose it's it's ah It's a different type of car, what it's going to be lumped in together is the Dacia Spring, which is a car that you drove a couple of weeks ago.
00:12:36
Speaker
um Great video on on on your YouTube channel, Nobby on Cars, if you want to go and have a look at that. The Spring is is obviously another car that's a little bit cheaper, but it's an EV without the the range. It's probably a little bit more low rent, if you like.
00:12:54
Speaker
What's the your take on the Spring?
00:12:57
Speaker
and I think the Spring is another good option for people who don't want frilly car. um The Insta is definitely a more frilly car. But i suppose the where the Spring has the mark to itself is the entry level version. That's not even 17 grand.
00:13:15
Speaker
um There is actually a cheaper version, again, that doesn't even have DC charging. You can only charge it at at home or with a three pin plug. yeah ah My understanding is they're not bringing that version to Ireland. m I think until I had witnessed the Inster, I thought, wow, this is this is a pretty good proposition here.
00:13:37
Speaker
Unfortunately, being totally honest with you. i think the Inster has has wiped its eye a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, I'd i'd i'd seen it at the neve Nevo show the spring initially and and was really, really impressed by it. But as you say, when you see what's on offer with the Insta and look, we're we're in a day now where people look at monthly finance figures and you're probably not talking about too much more money per month to get into an Insta versus a spring.
00:14:08
Speaker
Probably not. Now, they are doing 0% and 0 deposit on a on a spring. um But you're right. it it does It's a little bit more compromised in the back.
00:14:20
Speaker
and The boot is pretty decent in it for a B-segment car. um But it does it feels it feels cheap by comparison. Now, one thing it does have, so the Irish Instas...
00:14:31
Speaker
do not have vehicle to load officially, but I'm trying i'm looking at forums and I'm looking at guys who are picking up this car and they're plugging in vehicle to load adapters. Essentially, these adapters are just, they're like an extension lead coming from your car to your house.
00:14:44
Speaker
So people are a bit more familiar with them because of the power codes we've had. You can basically run something to ah up to a maximum of about 3.2, 3.4 kilowatt from your car's battery. and Now, the Spring officially 100% has battery.
00:14:58
Speaker
as standard. ah The Hyundai lineup, like the Iron Yacht 5, has got this feature, but the Irish cars versus the UK cars don't have this feature, officially anyway.
00:15:11
Speaker
So talk to us about the spring in terms of stas of EV stats, so battery size, range, and the like. and So the battery size from memory, I'm just pulling out my notes here. It's definitely it's low 20s.
00:15:26
Speaker
um The maximum charging speed is 30 kilowatt. And you can definitely argue if if you don't need to bring this car, you know, on any sort of a journey.
00:15:39
Speaker
ah Long journey was you'll never need to do fast charging. But I did speak to a colleague of mine who had to bring a spring from Dublin to Mayo. And it took him five and a half hours because he had to stop to charge twice.
00:15:54
Speaker
And stopping charge twice is fine if you're in a really fast charging EV where in 10 minutes you can get 200 kilometers a go. But this does not do that speed. So that was, you know, not a good experience.
00:16:08
Speaker
I will give you first-hand experience in a couple of weeks when I take it to Cork. So let's see how that goes. So it's a 65 brake horsepower output. As I mentioned, there is a cheaper 45 and it's 26.8 kilowatt air battery.
00:16:21
Speaker
ah output as i mentioned there is a cheaper forty five and it's a twenty six point eight kilowatt air battery Now, Dacia say, by the way, it is Dacia, Paddy, and you can't win in Ireland because and we we all know Peugeot, Peugeot.
00:16:35
Speaker
As soon as you start pronouncing Dacia correctly, you then have people replying videos going, it's not called Dacia. So, look, call it whatever you want. Dacia it is. But they say you're the Irish customer is doing a 37 kilometer daily average trip.
00:16:53
Speaker
Well, look, we know CSO stats, the average commute is about 50 kilometers, both directions. So and it's, you know, it's definitely well within the range of most people's daily commute. and But I mean, look, if you if you're you putting the two side by side and it's an obvious comparison to do at some stage, you know, where would your money be?
00:17:16
Speaker
My money would be on an Inster. Now, that said, I haven't had much experience with the the lower, the lesser spec signature version of the Inster. That's the one with 15-inch wheels.
00:17:28
Speaker
um it's It's not going to be a drastically different car in terms of space. um So, like, yeah, do have to say the most expensive Dacia is still about three grand cheaper than the most expensive Inster.
00:17:42
Speaker
um And it comes with five-year warranty and a longer warranty the battery and all that stuff. But if it was my money, I'm sorry, i'd have to go in there.
Affordable EVs Entering the Market
00:17:49
Speaker
I think what's important here though, Mark, as well, is that these are going to bring EVs to a new tranche of customers because up to now, obviously the EVs have been pretty expensive. We're now going to be in a situation where people who are, you know, maybe buying a used car or who are, you know, we're we're buying a really, really entry level,
00:18:10
Speaker
car we're are now going to seriously consider these because now these form the cheapest cars in Ireland. The Dossier Spring is the cheapest new car you can buy in Ireland. Yeah.
00:18:21
Speaker
And but people have been crying out. Well, it seems like people have been crying out for for these kind of cheaper, affordable. And we should use the word. So brands, little insight, brands never liked to call their cars cheap.
00:18:35
Speaker
So you'll obviously most affordable or. No, but we don't work for them. Whatever. No, exactly. But if you're ever wondering, how come we they never use the word cheap? ah that it That is why.
00:18:46
Speaker
and But yeah, no, look, it's very welcome. um It will be interesting to hear how you get on driving to Cork. Not just Cork, like your proper Cork. Well, i've i as someone who had an e-golf before...
00:18:58
Speaker
I do know about um range anxiety. That was um the the initial battery and the e-Golf was 24 kilowatts. So that was quite interesting. So and that was that was a car that would barely do 160, 170 kilometers on a full charge. So yeah, it can take a while.
00:19:15
Speaker
Rounding off the the new car launches for for this episode is the Peugeot 5008. and Very different price point, very different proposition. Tell us about that, Mark.
00:19:27
Speaker
So that is a seven-seater. We're all familiar with the 5,000. It's been around a long time, but the most recent gen that launched in sort of 2017, 2018, it nearly feels like that was the first one because it was so different. The design was, you know really, really striking. so ah It was a serious glow-up, really.
00:19:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So in some ways, this is actually the difficult second difficult second album for the 5008, if you think of that previous version. um Now, like a lot of cars, it has jumped in price in the one sense, like a GT line ah back in 2018, we were talking like maybe 42. The GT line now will cost you 55 after grants. I mean, there are some positives in the sense that it's the same price, whether you want petrol hybrid or electric, but It's still a seven seater. It's a reasonably usable seven seater. The back row is not huge compared to something like an EV9. But an EV9 is a GT line like for like 30 grand in the difference. It's huge. um so So what do they expect will be the biggest seller in this one between hybrid and and EV?
00:20:37
Speaker
and I think they probably expect the hybrid. um And i I liked their kind of sales pitch they were just telling us as journalists. they So they want to have both versions in the dealers.
00:20:50
Speaker
And ultimately, if you come in and you're you know you're set on ah a petrol, they will obviously sell you petrol. But they're nearly sort of using the 5008 EV to sort of dangle a carrot and say, look, you know this is the same price. You you mightn't be ready now, but just...
00:21:05
Speaker
this is available. They were sort of saying there's no hard sell on it. But, you know, you have to then bear in mind, fueling it is, there's it's there's no two ways about Fueling it, if you can do it at home, is going to be significantly cheaper than putting petrol in it.
00:21:23
Speaker
Yeah, of course. And I think we're we're at the stage as well where people are starting to trust that the range that's offered is going to be enough for them. The PHEV always does give you that sense of security if you know your daily commute is Dublin to Scaries, but then you do sometimes want to go to Kerry or Cork.
00:21:41
Speaker
The PHEV does give you that extra layer of security, but you know, with ranges coming up around 400 or 500 kilometers now in some of the EVs, you know, it's really it's really not not as much a problem. yeah but What but what's sort of range and and what sort the battery sizes are in the 5008? In the EV sorry, first.
00:21:56
Speaker
So the so the the petrol version is only a mild type. There is no PHEV coming in this way. Peugeot, Ireland say it's it's just too expensive. Yeah. So the there's a long-range version coming, which apparently will do over 700 kilometers. It seems like a lot. You're talking 500 now. It's a little over, think it's 77 kilowatt hour.
00:22:17
Speaker
um Decent charging speed. You know, it's the Stellantis platform. and So lot of other cars obviously using the same platform. and Like it has a lot more brake horsepower.
00:22:29
Speaker
So it's 136 in the petrol. you're getting, I think it's 200. but you're getting i think it's two So many different cars. One could be 210, one could be 218. You're kind of wondering which car I'm mixing up here.
00:22:40
Speaker
it's It's about 218 as far as an upbrake horsepower. So there's not far of 100 brake horsepower extra for the same price car. Now, it does way more.
00:22:52
Speaker
And all versions are 17s? All versions are seven seats. You've got two trims and ah the entry one is is about 50, just slightly over 50 grand.
00:23:04
Speaker
But if again, if you compare it to Skoda Kodiak, it's a little bit cheaper than that. Well, that's another car that has increased quite a lot in price over the last generation. You and I were talking about that separately, that you know those those cars in particular have really jumped in price.
00:23:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, look, they all have, but yeah, Skoda are definitely, they've gone through a yeah an adjustment in terms of the spec, the fit, the finish. I mean, they are wonderful, wonderful cars, and but they're not the bargain car that they used to be, a bit like the where Dacia are now. Like I had a Dacia Duster recently. It was the highest spec version, but it was €35,000. And I think in that space, Dacia have too much competition.
00:23:54
Speaker
There's too many of the cars out there. Yeah, I watch your video on that. And i think you mentioned that you used to be able to buy one of those for under 20 grand at one point. Oh, way. Yeah, yeah. And look, again, it wasn't the same car. It didn't have the same level of safety. It didn't have the same. It didn't look as good.
00:24:08
Speaker
You know, some of the new Datches look really nice. um Yeah, the big service. Phenomenal. Yeah, that'll be the first one ever to have a glass sunroof in a Datcha. Imagine that. It took 20, 25.
00:24:21
Speaker
So tell us your driving impressions of the 5008. You had a spin, I presume. I only had a brief spin because there was an Irish launch of it. I did i couldn't do the international drive last year, but I did have a look at it the static car when when it was launched probably, well, maybe a year ago.
00:24:36
Speaker
um So I have driven the 3008.
00:24:40
Speaker
which is quite a similar car. There's essentially just an extra row of seats in the back. um And again, like a lot of EVs, you just felt the weight. I've driven the new Opel Grandland electric versus mild hybrid, essentially the same car in many ways.
00:24:55
Speaker
And it's 500 kilos heavier than the petrol equivalent. So you just, there's no way you can't, like even BMW couldn't do that in the M5. They've just maybe just about disguised the extra weight.
00:25:09
Speaker
There's no way Busio can do that in in a mass production car like that. So um yeah, look, it was, had plenty of power. reasonably comfortable, like a lot of these EVs that are heavy, when you go for the bigger wheels, the sporty suspension, it becomes not necessarily the most comfortable thing to to be in. But I would like to drive that car a little bit more because I genuinely did a kind of a 10-kilometer round trip ah in it. i think But I have it in a few weeks.
00:25:37
Speaker
I think what um what impresses me most really about Peugeot is the interior. The interiors have changed so dramatically over the last few years and the quality in particular has really... and become elevated. They're, they're really superb inside.
00:25:52
Speaker
Yeah, lovely steering wheel. Some people don't really like the steering wheel because the way it sometimes covers the instruments, think that's more depending on how tall or short you are. But yeah, no, like much nicer interiors.
00:26:03
Speaker
Really good looking car. um There's been a few. So the last version had three individualiser fixed seats. It now doesn't. And the front passenger seat used to fold forward flat. So you could basically lie in the back of the car, put your feet up on it. You could use it as a picnic table.
00:26:20
Speaker
It's gone from this version. And at the launch last year, I asked why. And essentially, it couldn't have an electric seat when it folded. And they reckon people value an electric seat more than a folding seat.
00:26:32
Speaker
So let us know if you agree. Yeah. Well, as ever, if you do have any questions for us about these cars, do we email us on driversrepublicpodcasts at gmail.com.
Interview with Ray Leddy from Skoda
00:26:44
Speaker
We will put links in the show notes to Mark's reviews of these cars as well from his Navion Cars YouTube channel.
00:26:52
Speaker
But for now, let's take a break. After the break, we'll be back with Ray Leddy from Skoda. Welcome back to the Drivers Public podcast brought to you in association with Dundeele Motors, Ireland's favourite website for car buying.
00:27:03
Speaker
With more certified, trusted dealers than anywhere else, you're sure to find the right car for you on dundeele.ie. It's time for our first actual guest, Paddy. Yeah, and we're delighted to be joined by Ray Leddy, who's Head of Marketing for Skoda Ireland and and an old colleague of mine as well. Welcome to the show, Ray.
00:27:20
Speaker
Thank you, Paddy. Thanks, Mark. Privileged to be the first guest. Thank you. First guest. Well, you were the first one who was available, so thanks for thanks for coming back first. So, I don't know where to start with Ray. In the automotive circles in Liffey Valley, he's probably a bit of ah a marketing genius. um But let's let's go let's go back. So, were you always an automotive kind of guy?
00:27:44
Speaker
ah Yeah, well, when I say always an automotive person, I suppose where to start for me, in college I studied transport engineering and motor industry management in DIT.
00:27:57
Speaker
and From there... How did I get to where I am now? Well, during that time, there was an open day, let's call it, in a building called Motor Distributors Limited. For any your listeners who don't know that area, it's the big building on the nice road with the Mercedes Benz sign on the roof with a clock underneath. So it's a very symbolic building.
00:28:15
Speaker
Did an open day there in 1999. I was probably 19. And in the building... and in the building I suppose I just loved the place, I wanted to work there and for a number of reasons.
00:28:28
Speaker
The building itself, there was a smell of heritage in it, they used to manufacture cars there. a the There was a great mixture of brands there, they Mazda, Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda, Mercedes Benz of course as well, so they had a great mixture of brands. and There was nice atmosphere in the place and there's great exposure to to two loads of cars that I could see, touch, drive.
00:28:53
Speaker
and So from that touch point there, I said I wanted to work here, I wanted to work here. And the interview came up when I graduated from college and I was looking up to get a job in Skoda and that was 2000 and I've been there ever since.
00:29:09
Speaker
Not in a motorist, but that's changed. We've moved away from there, but but I've been in the brand ever since. They still have a Mercedes sign on the roof, but have few more plaques on the wall as you drive by now. And that building Ray talks about is where the Volkswagen Beetle was built, as well as Balls Bridge, but was also there.
00:29:27
Speaker
It's quite it's it's an interesting ah ah building that, no doubt, to a developer is worth an absolute fortune. But the O'Flaherty family, I don't think it's up for grabs. don Not now, anyway. I'd hate to see it being sold off and turned into apartments, to be honest.
00:29:42
Speaker
I still have the nostalgic view of it of of ah an old factory that is a centre of the motor industry in Ireland, so I'd hate see it turn into apartments. Absolutely. So, right, 25 years on Skoda this year? In May, yeah, 25 years.
00:29:56
Speaker
You know, over over over that period, it's been a huge change in the Skoda brand. Talk us through, you know, the Skoda that you joined and and how that's developed over the years. day Day one when I started in May 2000, there was two people let's say in sales and planning and marketing, myself and Colin Sheridan.
00:30:13
Speaker
but You probably know Colin Sheridan, he's in Citroen now, he's the brand director of Citroen, so myself and Colin. And we looked at for everything. So marketing, sales, product, pricing, everything we did.
00:30:24
Speaker
There was no website then, was no social media. and The orders come in from the dealers from the cars by fax. So it it was very different. And what was the product lineup then? When I arrived, there was still Felicia in stock. So Felicia was there. There was Felicia Pickup, which is the commercial vehicle with the flat back in it. There was Felicia there. And Fabi had just arrived. So Fabi was that the first...
00:30:47
Speaker
Volkswagen Group products that arrived and it was getting rave reviews at the time. So we were very optimistic about Fabio at that time. Do you remember how much it was back then? It was less than 10,000 pounds, we were dealing pounds at the time. Less than 10,000 pounds, yeah. And Octavia, for example,
00:31:05
Speaker
was the best selling diesel Octavia at the time was £16,000. And ah my salary, I suppose back in 2000, my salary was £14,000 per year. So I was delighted with it. I was just delighted.
00:31:17
Speaker
I was delighted to come home with a business card. I got a business card. I came home with a tie. I was chuffed myself. I was so naive. £14,000 per year and a business card. And I was delighted.
00:31:29
Speaker
For anyone who knows about Skoda now, the Skoda back then... will be a very different brand. It was a very different brand. Talk to us about the challenges of trying to get that brand established. Yeah, it was it was difficult back then. Scotta probably didn't have a great reputation in terms of quality. I've seen it probably as an Eastern European brand.
00:31:51
Speaker
And there was a job to do then and to be fair it took a long time to do it. It's taken probably 15, 20 years to get into the, to break into the top 10 best selling cars, top five. So it's taken a long time.
00:32:03
Speaker
aim It's taken many different, it's not it's not just one thing. A lot of people look at what was the one thing that fixed it. There wasn't one thing, there were several things that fixed it. There was great product. Some great products came along. Yeti was a great product. Superb.
00:32:15
Speaker
Octavia. Kodak later on. We had a great dealer network. and The network network of 27 years, they're brilliant. that They're one of the best dealer networks out there. They're fantastic. and We had and marketing, of course, which was really strong. we were I was always very lucky to have a free reign and people that give me the opportunity to ah express myself.
00:32:37
Speaker
So I was always... very very lucky and fortunate to be able work in the marketing. so In addition then, the team here in Leafy Valley, we've always been very consistent.
00:32:48
Speaker
A lot of brands and companies change people quite a lot. Our brand director, John Donning, is here over 10 years. My colleagues are here more than 10 years, a lot them as well. Scotland is a bit like a cult here. We have the same group people, very close, who work together, are very determined and driven.
00:33:06
Speaker
So there's been a number of factors that have brought us to where we are today in Skoda. And it's not just the marketing or or the product. It's been a number of factors. One thing that's really struck me over the years, and and you would be, you and the team obviously would be, um you know, responsible for that, is the perception of Skoda as being a brand that Irish people love and Irish people have coveted.
00:33:28
Speaker
What do you think is behind that? Skoda, you know, you had the campaign Skoda Made for Ireland. Why do you think the brand resonates with Irish customers so much?
Skoda's Appeal in Ireland
00:33:37
Speaker
Yeah, there's a few things there. It's kind of a common sense brand.
00:33:41
Speaker
It's practical. a The price is good. The specification is good. They're strong. They're hardy. They're durable cars. They're good for families. They're good for people live in the countryside. They're good for people live in cities.
00:33:52
Speaker
a Great boot capacity has always been a great strength for us. and Simply clever solutions, folding seats down, able to sit fill fold the seats down and and and fit your shop in your IKEA keya furniture purchases go in there very easy.
00:34:08
Speaker
All them items happen very easy. It's just a simple, practical brand. And what we've done over the years is is try and and show people how can intertwine with their life and how the brand can do that. And we've done that very successfully.
00:34:20
Speaker
It's funny because my wife's car has currently been repaired and the crash repair place gave her a 2024 Octavia. And she came home yesterday and she told me what she was getting. So I knew and she, the dog box was in the hall because she wanted to take the bits out of her car.
00:34:37
Speaker
And she said, will the dog box go in the back of that, Octavia? And I laughed and I said, off the top my head, it has a 600 litre boot, just from memory, these things you start, and I said, of course the dog box.
00:34:49
Speaker
And then she came in, she goes, I can't believe, and not only the dog box the boot, but she's like, there's so much space compared to her car on either side of it. And even with the lift back design, where sometimes that mightn't fit, it is it's like what what you say is just, it was just funny to hear that from someone who has no experience of the Skoda brand.
00:35:07
Speaker
and how just it's probably more of of an interest to her now yeah we've because that simple reason. We've done things as well over the years that might have been a bit a bit innovative as well. For example, we've taken usually you guys drive the finest of new cars that are out there.
00:35:23
Speaker
We took 10-year-old cars with nearly million miles on them and gave them out to the motor meter to drive just to show how hardy and how durable they are. and we've we've done we've we've we've we've done We've done that and before and worked really well.
00:35:37
Speaker
We put the Pope on a Skoda. The Pope was put on a Skoda as well back in 2018. He came to Ireland and we got him into a Skoda as well. So we've done done things like that there that were probably, think, a little bit outside the box. You had the only Skoda Superb in America as well. We did. we we we They don't have Skoda in the US at all.
00:35:57
Speaker
And we found that one of our customers got a job at Interpol in Washington. And he loved the Skoda Superbill and K so much he wanted to bring it to Washington with him. So we asked him, do you mind if we go over with Bob Flavin, who you all know, and And do you mind if we go off and drive your car over there in Washington and see what the Americans think of the superb?
00:36:16
Speaker
And that was a great bit of content as well. It was it was really good. I've never seen that, actually. is that really cool that on Bob's channel? Yeah. Oh, look, great. it's It's a great piece. it's a great story behind it this well There's a great story behind it as well. Now, Ray, there's lots of EVs in the Skoda lineup if you want to go that way. But there is this another type of fuel that is still a dominant force in your brand here in Ireland.
00:36:38
Speaker
Paddy, hit him with the facts. Well, I'm sure Ray knows his own facts, but 55% of your yeah registrations in January were diesel. And your account, Skoda accounts for one in four diesels sold in Ireland, certainly in 2024.
00:36:53
Speaker
How important is diesel still to the Skoda customer? And
Diesel's Importance for Skoda
00:36:57
Speaker
where do you see that going? Yeah, a lot of people have trust in diesel. a They haven't given up on diesel. Sometimes diesel is a a dirty word for some people.
00:37:05
Speaker
a But lot of people who have trust in diesel, we have a great diesel offering. Octavia, Kodiak, Superb, some of the best diesel cars out there at the moment. and In addition, one of the main drivers, you mentioned we're a top diesel brand in the market, well also the top fleet brand in the market as well. So we're number one in fleet in Ireland for fleet customers.
00:37:25
Speaker
And they're predominantly diesel as well. And the reason for that is because they can clean the VAT back. So that's one of the main drivers of that as well. In addition to that, then last year, HVO was introduced around last year or the year before, and started becoming a little more widespread. So we embraced that as well, and and in a little partnership with CERTA, and we started communicating and the benefits of HVO, and our Skodas can work on HVO as well.
00:37:50
Speaker
So HVO, just so anybody who doesn't know what HVO is, it's hydrated vegetable oil and it's it's it's created from organic or recycled food or oils and we can burn it in our Scaldiesel cart.
00:38:02
Speaker
Why do you think there hasn't been enough or more discussion about HVO as a solution? It seems to be you guys are flying the flag for it, obviously CERTA as well, but for the For people who were a bit squeamish about EV, surely you would make ah a good interim solution. i just don't know why it hasn't been more widespread. That's a question, Paddy, and and maybe you guys could maybe maybe get somebody from Zerta or one of the fuel companies on the show to have a conversation about it.
00:38:27
Speaker
it The fuel itself, HVO, as of today, is a little bit more expensive than diesel. Will customers sacrifice that ah put the but environment before their pocket? Sometimes they don't, sometimes they do.
00:38:40
Speaker
I think the government could do something because it's the same exercise as applied to HVO as diesel. So the government could influence this quite quickly by doing something, a reduction in exercise, for example.
00:38:51
Speaker
So that's something that could happen very quickly a to reduce emissions. ah You know, my good feeling is that there was a hesitancy to endorse something that still was, in inverted commas, a fossil fuel. But surely because, you know, once it comes out of the pump, it's in your car, you've used it it, it surely is a no-brainer to financially incentivise that. It would reduce the CO2 numbers.
00:39:14
Speaker
No doubt it would, Paddy. As someone who's very much in the weeds at the moment of selling EVs, what's your take on the market? What's your take on where it's going? And what's your what's your take on some hesitancy still?
EV Misconceptions and Market Insights
00:39:26
Speaker
Yeah, well, I suppose that if we look at, let's say, misconceptions and myths, I suppose we also have to look at some truths. a The sales figures were down significantly last year, down 15%.
00:39:37
Speaker
And every month the sales figures came out, they were reported, and i was like it was like it was like a an nail the coffin. It was just doom and gloom around EVs. I went to a family funeral, and...
00:39:48
Speaker
in the middle of last year and sure, was relations come up to me and saying, no, I told you, them EVs, they were never going to work, they were never going to work, no, no, no, I told you, you know, because I was talking about EVs and how positive they were and people just, only to like the lies are telling me that the news said that they their sales or not sands are down and it's never work and whatever, so,
00:40:08
Speaker
That was difficult last year to cope with. One of the positive things, I suppose, and you would get kind of depressed if you listen to social media and the commentaries on social media can be quite negative.
00:40:19
Speaker
Going to the Nevo show in the RDS was very positive. You get to meet a lot of customers who are very positive towards EVs and are interested to learn more are open to it. So that that was quite positive for me. Other truths that we suppose we need to look at as well as is a depreciation.
00:40:34
Speaker
There was a lot of vehicles that the EVs did depreciate quite heavily, more so than, let's see, a diesel car last year. I suppose you have to examine why they depreciated. Some of the reasons that caused depreciation is new car deflation. So when new cars go down in price, it pushes the used cars down.
00:40:52
Speaker
I'd like to think that the the new car deflation in in EVs is... hit the bottom, so that's kind of stopped, know it's stopped in our group, so that should level out the depreciation and in used cars.
00:41:03
Speaker
Too much availability is also one of the causes of of of depreciation. If I look at Dundee, you great sponsors by the way, Dundee, so I just need to plug them, there are 80,000 cars up in Dundee at the moment, used cars for sale, there are only 2,800 EVs up there, so there's not that many out there for sale, so know about you guys, but I don't know if you have any friends that bought a house in 2010 after the crash. I have a couple of friends are always on holidays because they bought the house at the right time when it was cheap after the crash.
00:41:35
Speaker
Right now, we had a bit of a crash last year in EVs. Out there, there's 2,800 cars in Dunedin there priced extremely well. So it's a great time for customers there to go out and buy a second-hand EV, in my opinion.
00:41:46
Speaker
and Other things that might cause ah depreciation, just to finish up in depreciation, and is bad quality, you know. Cars out there with bad names, reputations, nobody really wants to buy them, that they they they fetch bad market values.
00:42:00
Speaker
We don't have that problem with EVs out there. that The quality in EVs is very good. I'll come to that misconception a few moments as well, but the quality out there is very good. So I think we're going to see a recovery in you used EVs next year that will improve things.
00:42:14
Speaker
This year and next year, I'd say.
00:42:17
Speaker
Then look at some misconceptions. Your warranty is a big one. What is the warranty in the battery, especially in the battery? If we look at Skoda, we have an eight-year warranty in the battery, 160,000 kilometres.
00:42:28
Speaker
Great warranty. You wouldn't have that in a petrol-easel engine. That's boxed off. Let's call that the warranty covered. Battery failure. You do see on social media, especially cases or individual cases of battery failure.
00:42:40
Speaker
um I'm sure it does happen, and but they are extremely rare. In this group, we have very few battery failures. It doesn't happen as often as a petrol or diesel engine would fail. But unfortunately, in this land of social media, there's always an outrage around a failure when it comes to a battery failure or any type of failure with an EV.
00:42:59
Speaker
and Battery degradation is another one. People fear battery degradation, and that the battery will whittle down to 0% and there's no value in That's not the case. Tests have shown there. Volkswagen in this building here have done some tests around vehicles with high mileage and that have been charged regularly using DC chargers, so and that the that the the battery life is still 92% on these really heavily used cars. So degradation, I think, is another thing that people are fearful of and they shouldn't be.
00:43:28
Speaker
Battery repair costs, another one. a I'll give an example of a battery repair cost that that that popped up. It was on social media. Again, there was an item It was on TikTok, who was a repairer reported having a Nanyak with a battery a repair of 12 grand that they had it to fix.
00:43:47
Speaker
And when I seen this on TikTok, I immediately, I have a customer out there, an Nanyak customer with a battery, I need to help this guy out. So let's find out where this person is. Onto a service department here in Volkswagen, GoodBeyrand, with a guy out there with a battery, needs needs a battery.
00:44:01
Speaker
Can we find out who he is? rang the network, na no, no batteries out there, gone, not no reporting. I said, okay, I'll get on social media here and try and address this and try and set the story straight. said, hold on, there could be a crash repair or something that somebody might have earned a battery, let's check that again.
00:44:16
Speaker
So another day went by and another day went by and the guys came back in in service or technically and said, no no battery required. So at that stage, that that story of this battery failure for 12 grand was floating around in in social media with loads of negative comments on it.
00:44:36
Speaker
And it's very difficult to go into that point then and when ah it's only three days old and and try and correct the story. The story's gone. you know did Whether it be truth or not no truth, the story's gone. So it's very hard to address that.
00:44:47
Speaker
So that's around, but battery failure and battery repair costs are... Battery failure is very, very minimal. It doesn't happen too often. and If it does fail, it's generally a module can be replaced.
00:44:59
Speaker
And the cost of every... People in the media love asking what's the cost a battery or a repair module. I don't have that on But i can tell you it's it's a similar cost to replacing a DPF filter in diesel car. It's a similar cost to replacing a turbocharger turbo charge on a diesel car.
00:45:13
Speaker
That's around the cost of repairing it. So if somebody's out there thinking about buying a battery, thinking of a battery module failure, they need to think that, okay, I could have a turbo failure in a diesel car, I could have a DPF filter in a diesel car, because they're around the same cost to replace. That's what, couple of grand?
00:45:29
Speaker
Can they? I don't know off the top of my head. And so i've I've also seen these stories, and they're... by the looks of it, there are mechanics on TikTok and they're talking about... But what I always find is, and I was only talking to dealership about this recently, there was a story of a Tesla going around on TikTok and it was possibly the same mechanic.
00:45:48
Speaker
But there's never a car. There's never reg. There's never the person who apparently is looking for this 20 grand battery to be replaced. So what... What's the point of putting out that negative story, do you think? is ah Is it just to contribute to the the negative vacuum? Is it...
00:46:08
Speaker
to push you know a mechanic who wants to still be around in 30 years time fixing engines? I'm not disputing there's a negative story out there or there's no truth in it. not disputing that. aim I couldn't find the truth in that particular case. But generally, if you look at social media algorithms, things that that encourage outrage generally do better than good news stories. you know That's generally the way it works with social media. and Outrage does better than than nice, humble stories, unfortunately.
00:46:37
Speaker
Give us a a little bit of a tour of where the Skoda range now and what we can expect coming in the next 12 to 24 months. Yeah, well, looking at where we are now, what I'd like to see coming this year is more supply.
00:46:57
Speaker
We've always had a problem with supply in Scoda. We've always had shortages where other markets might get more supply than us. So we've we've always had a supply problem, let's call it, which is so it's a good problem to have, but we'd like to get more cars on the ground, and especially plug-in hybrids.
00:47:12
Speaker
and This year we have good supply now of superb plug-in hybrid that we didn't always have and we have good supply of Kodiak plug-in hybrid that we didn't always have. and We recently got unfavorable review favor of you and YouTube by a YouTuber there, an Irish YouTuber, around their Kodiak plug-in hybrid. and and as result what about the price only about the price fires my price so um so yeah so what price do you think you should much think we should be reduced by mark is not interested you know like it's uh um i don't well ah if you're a kodiak potential customer you're you're looking at a car that's 56 57 certain price uh which is a lot dearer than it was when it came out a few years ago it has to be said but that's that's happened with a lot of brands
00:48:02
Speaker
and So if if you just want the petrol, I suppose, as it has been the case in the past, now the gap was in the past, sometimes it was 10 grand to get into the same car in a plug-in hybrid, and doing the man mats on the back of a beer thing, you're kind of going, well, to jump that 10 grand extra, that's a lot of petrol.
00:48:21
Speaker
Okay, I can charge this car, but it's also a lot of petrol that I probably won't use. So I suppose from a ah potential customer point of view, the same mythology is still there. It's
Skoda's Pricing Strategy
00:48:30
Speaker
like, If I can charge this PHEV, and in fairness, the new Kodiak and Superb and the new the current gen of plug-in hybrids from Volkswagen Group will do around 100, 120 kilometers.
00:48:42
Speaker
They're good for it. It's a decent-sized battery. and It's just a case of how much extra is the is the extra. I think that's the... Yes, you can charge it cheaply at home for genuinely five, six quid.
00:48:58
Speaker
Probably less, actually because the battery's not huge. But it's just, if it's going to cost me five grand extra, I might wait till the next time. And I'll go oh just get the petrol. Okay? Okay. The review, as you said, it was the price and we and we heard you.
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah. I didn't think you'd care that much. We heard you. I was very upset by it, but but to be fair, you hit a nerve. And we had we a meeting in in the office day and we sat down and looked at it. And I'd like to come back and drive the car again with more favorable price on it because we have looked at the price um on both the Kodiak and the Superb plug-in hybrid.
00:49:36
Speaker
Interesting. I'm not vain as well. It must be a challenge because Skoda has become um you know a mainstream premium brand, if you like. It's up there with Volkswagen. It's nipping on its heels in terms of registration and sales.
00:49:51
Speaker
The pricing has jumped accordingly. you know Even looking at the Skoda Superb entry points, and an entry point Skoda Superb is now 70% more expensive than it was 10 years ago.
00:50:03
Speaker
Now, they're not the same car. But does that present challenges in that the the customer who was always a Skoda Superb buyer is now buying a much more premium product? i was The customer we're looking at it, they don't probably see what's going on behind the scenes with the car pricing. It's become nearly a trend in the UK where they take out the prices from 10 years ago and look at it now, where the prices have changed.
00:50:27
Speaker
If we look at the cars now, the price, let's say, 10 years ago was a manual transmission. they're moving to an automatic transmission because the emissions are too hard to control. we'd ah we'd have The VRT band jumps in between.
00:50:40
Speaker
have UNAECE. and We have a different measurements in in emissions as well in terms of the regulations on cars. So a lot of things have changed and costs have gone into the car.
00:50:53
Speaker
a to increase the price. That has happened. But in Skoda, what we have done, we we didn't really focus on price. if you're if you're your aim is to be the cheapest brand in the market all the time, you'rere you're on the road to nothing.
00:51:07
Speaker
And the reason that is because we see now that Chinese brands are coming in at a really cheap price. And if we didn't work on our brand and building our brand, and we focus on price, if if that was our only, let's say,
00:51:20
Speaker
selling point was our price we've been in a very difficult situation now that we know brand what we've done over the last number of years between made for Ireland and everything else we've done over the last number of years is built a very strong brand very strong brand that people want to buy it's desirable and do you think that will be a secret weapon for more established brands over the next 10 years heritage well that's help it it it will It will give you a bit of time.
00:51:46
Speaker
i think it will be still difficult. You still need to be competitive. As you've said on price there, we can't afford to be €10,000 more expensive. You know, €2,000 or €3,000 more expensive.
00:51:57
Speaker
I think people will still make the choice, but we can't afford to be €10,000 or €12,000 more expensive. and So price will always be always mindful of price, you know, but you can always fall back on a strong brand. People trust your brand.
00:52:10
Speaker
They'll come back to your brand. You'll retain people if you have strong brand. If it's price you're focused on and price-conscious customers, they'll jump from Billy to Jack from brand to brand. There won't be any loyalty there.
00:52:21
Speaker
Okay. So what's next up? Elrock is due very soon. Is that weeks away? Elrock is actually on a boat and in Irish Sea at the moment. So we've the first Elrock coming in.
00:52:32
Speaker
They'll be on sale proper in March but i'm during the dealers. and On Elrock, just as opposed Elrock, the price in Elrock is very competitive. 37,666 euro about a 427 kilometre range.
00:52:44
Speaker
So very well priced. There's 20,000 of them.
00:52:48
Speaker
so very well priced and there's twenty thousand of them on back order for Europe yep is that taught is is that a normal figure a was the Enyaq that strong it's we we as I said we've always that challenge in Ireland and of getting supply it's going to bring out a new model there's always lots of markets demanding in the car so we always had that problem So what advise me looking at an Elrock is to order early.
00:53:17
Speaker
To give you yeah an idea of it, my parents ordered one November and it's being built in the middle of March. And takes, what, four weeks from factory to Ireland? Yeah, depending on boats, yeah, would, yeah.
00:53:29
Speaker
So that's your kind of lead. Now, that's obviously an early order, but... So... And with the EVs, are you seeing first-time Skoda buyers, existing Skoda buyers? like Do you have some sort of a handle on that from, say, Enyaq?
00:53:45
Speaker
Yeah, there's there's there's a big mix. There's lot of premium brands coming in. and A lot of people switching. The EV buyer seems to be a bit different. They're moving... from brand to brand. um I'm even seeing some people who are in Skodas even moving out of Skodas into other brands as well. So the the EV customer, so in my opinion, and from what I see, doesn't seem to be as loyal as the traditional customer.
00:54:09
Speaker
That's what I'm seeing. And in terms of of the ambitions for this year, like yet last year was a particularly strong year. Was that Skoda's strongest year in Ireland last year? Last year was our best year ever. and We had about 10.5% market share.
00:54:24
Speaker
finished the top three, 12,500 cars, we were the number one market in Western Europe. So, not saying in terms of our sales volume, but in terms of our share, we were the number one performing market in Western Europe.
00:54:37
Speaker
So, incredibly strong figures, and and and obviously, you know, looking at the early January figures, those figures are up again. Yeah. So, yeah internally, politics-wise, is there any sort of issue if you if you exceed Volkswagen?
00:54:50
Speaker
hey we we would we We would, that's a great question, Paddy, you're smiling and asking me that question, and trying to put me on the spot. a We would see vos our Volkswagen colleagues as our frenemies.
00:55:04
Speaker
So we like to be competitive with them, we like to drive each other on. a We share, there's lots of things we share in the building here, and ideas, and processes, we share a bank, you know there's lots of things we do very well together.
00:55:17
Speaker
But there is like a sibling rivalry between us that we do enjoy. and I think it drives both of us on. But surely they'll be happy for you. ah you'll You'll have to invite maybe Alan Bateson onto the show. He's coming. And ask him that question. Would he be happy? I'm sure he'd appreciate that question.
00:55:35
Speaker
I don't know if he's as diplomatic maybe as as you are, Ray. Mightn't be as good as a politician anyway. and Well, continued success with the brand. Will you be in Scota for the rest of your career?
00:55:49
Speaker
um'm I'm here 25 years, Mark. Because you're not an old man. We should say it that, by the way. yeah i People can't see it. I don't feel old, but like sometimes I've... i don't know if you've ever seen the movie The Shoreshank Redemption. a There's a guy in that movie called Brooks, you know and he was in in in jail for for quite a long time.
00:56:06
Speaker
And then they released him, and he didn't fit in anywhere else. you know and He had an unhappy ending, but I don't want to think I'd have an unhappy ending like that. But will I fit in anywhere else? I don't know. Let's wait and see.
00:56:18
Speaker
Ray, thanks you very much for talking to us. Paddy, was it weird being back in Niffy Valley? You don't have swipe card anymore, are No, i they locked me out in 2021. But no, great to be here. And and great. Thanks again for your for your time today.
00:56:29
Speaker
Welcome back to the Drivers of Public podcast brought to you in association with Dundeele Motors with Ireland's widest selection of cars for sale from certified trusted dealers. The right car for you is on dundeele.ie.
00:56:41
Speaker
In fact, they haven't put this on our memo this week, Paddy, but sometimes before, i like like a child who gets a bedtime story, I love going on to the ah classic and vintage car section on Dundeele and just seeing what little gems are on there. It helps go to sleep.
00:56:57
Speaker
I was only talking to someone about this recently, a friend of the show, Robert Guy, who's the head of group after sales in folks on Group Ireland. he He and I have our regular sort of Friday night done deal classic section ah viewers and we'll be sending each other links remotely while having a beer. But it is, it's a really, really good section of the site and one which if if I had the money, they'd be getting an awful lot of my money on on those cars.
00:57:26
Speaker
and Absolutely. Now, there's no reflection on done deal. There's there's ah always a few Irish dreamers out there when it comes to prices of some things, but there can be some nice things that pop up. And, um you know, as as I often say, and I have done on my own videos and looking up to own a few older cars over the years, and if you have a few quid, there's worse ways to to drop a little bit of money and maybe maybe even make a few quid then when the time comes to selling it.
00:57:50
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. And it's ah it'll be another show. We'll definitely have to to talk about that because ah i know in the past, I wish I'd kept some of the things that I had that'd be worth a lot more money now, but look, what can we do?
00:58:01
Speaker
Speaking of of ah of values of used cars though, ah topic that we thought we'd explore this week is the used EV usedv segment because it's a hot topic of conversation. There's lots of people who are...
00:58:14
Speaker
and A little bit worried, I suppose, about buying an EV because there has been so much talk about the used values of EVs. So it's something that we said we'd have a quick look at this week. and Mark, we we know there's various reasons why ev values have been a little strange. Just outline a few of them for us.
00:58:40
Speaker
and So, ah there was that thing called COVID, which resulted in semiconductor issues, um which, like any supply and demand, I suppose, made the cost of things more expensive.
00:58:53
Speaker
um The fundamental thing probably is the thing that's powering the car, which is the battery, that the price of the battery is falling all the time.
00:59:03
Speaker
I mean, it's probably falling by the month. um Whether it's cobalt battery, LFP battery, that's one of the biggest things.
00:59:15
Speaker
And... like There's no doubt versus this year, 2027, will be a cheaper year to buy an identical EV.
00:59:26
Speaker
um ah But I think there there's two other drivers. Well, one is the stuff that's coming from China. And two is probably the Volkswagen Group, who did some price adjustments probably two years now at this stage.
00:59:41
Speaker
um And in some models, they wiped 10 grand off the price of a car overnight. The ID Buzz dropped by 10,000 euro. And if you were a customer who'd spent 10 grand the Friday before and on the Monday morning, your car was now devalued by 10, the answer was kind of tough.
00:59:58
Speaker
I was one of the customers who bought an E up for 30 and four weeks later it was 20. So they wiped out a third of the value overnight.
01:00:09
Speaker
and So yeah, look, that's that's definitely one of the reasons we've seen price adjustments on EVs because when they came out first, ah the id at four when it came out first,
01:00:20
Speaker
One of the first edition models was you know up there in 60,000, 65,000 euro. Now you can get them for you know an ID.4. This probably could be under 40,000 euro for for an entry point.
01:00:32
Speaker
Skoda have dropped the prices of Enyaq over the course of its lifetime. There's been lots of changes, and that has that effect of adjusting the used values. And we've seen that really over the last couple of years in particular. Tesla also were another brand who...
01:00:49
Speaker
who adjusted the prices of their their three of of their Model 3 and their Model y And the net effect of that is always going to be that the value of of that person's used car when they bring it in is down, and it's going to be it's going to be cheaper to get into used one after that.
01:01:03
Speaker
Now, this is one of the reasons why people are concerned about EV values. But... ah You know, this is ah something we've, we talked earlier about the likes of the Hyundai Insta, the Dacia Spring.
01:01:17
Speaker
We've talked as well about, you know, there being cheaper cheaper batteries coming on, especially from the likes of BYD bringing in their, their model range. I think this is something that's going to settle and it's going to settle quite soon. i don't know about you, Mark.
01:01:30
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. there' There's, I don't think we're there yet. um And i have recently done an interview with um the head of Fiat, who also ah is the chief marketing officer for Alfa Romeo.
01:01:44
Speaker
ah Even in Italy, you have double job sometimes. um And we'll bring you the interview over the next few weeks, but essentially he was saying by 2027, like for like EV could be as much as 5,000 euro cheaper. But,
01:01:57
Speaker
um board As I said, I we're there yet, but I think that we won't see the likes of VW wipe 10 grand off cars again.
01:02:10
Speaker
I'd like to think. Well, I'd hope not. I mean, it's it's for some you know it's different if people have bought on a PCP, the guaranteed you know residual value when they bring it back. But for cash buyers at the time, that could be devastating to have spent you know their own money and have that value wiped off at with the stroke of a pen.
01:02:29
Speaker
Yeah, but it is I always say, because I get a lot of comments about this, whether it's on my own channel or TikTok, whatever, and um there is no such thing as a new car that doesn't depreciate. It doesn't matter what fuel it has in it.
01:02:42
Speaker
Unfortunately, it was exacerbated by the the price cuts. I mean... And and that they they are still in some ways and not doing it. But for example, the ID.3 GTX, which has the same motor output as some of the Cooper Bourne VZ, which is significantly more expensive.
01:03:01
Speaker
You can buy an ID.3 GTX from VW for less than 40 grand brand new. and They're not shouting about it, but it's it's there if you go looking. And it's blistering performance. It's an absolutely blistering performance in that car. Really, really impressive. 326 brake horsepower, still rear-wheel drive, looks good, you know has has the nicer wheels, nicer slightly nicer interior.
01:03:24
Speaker
um So ah I don't want to just focus on on VW, but um will we will we see cars getting cheaper over the next couple of years? Yes, but just probably not maybe in the the same drastic scale.
01:03:36
Speaker
Yeah. But I can see why someone might hear this and go, well, I'm not going to buy one yet then. Yeah, for sure. i mean, I would always sort of advise people that if they were going to buy a new EV, that they should probably finance it, that should probably go the PCP route. And at least they have.
01:03:56
Speaker
the potential for that guaranteed future residual value after three years. I know I see manufacturers now starting to push people a little bit towards HP again, offering lower rates for HP.
01:04:07
Speaker
Maybe, i said, maybe that's why, you know, that's the case because they're a little bit uncertain about that guaranteed future value in three years time themselves. But cash buying a brand new EV for the moment, I think would be something that I would be hesitant to do because because of that uncertainty over used EV
Used EV Market and Bargains
01:04:29
Speaker
values. However, there there is something that we should discuss and that's if you were buying used.
01:04:34
Speaker
So if you were going out to buy a used EV, now firstly, People might be thinking, oh, am I going to buy myself a whole world of problems? Most of these cars have pretty whopper warranties. So the the average is about 160,000 kilometers for seven years. The likes of BYD have 200,000 kilometer warranties on the batteries.
01:04:52
Speaker
i But some of the bargains that are out there, and Mark and i have been looking at some of these today on Done Deal to to see what's what's out there. If you were going out as a used buyer to buy an EV at the moment, there are some really serious bargains, Mark.
01:05:09
Speaker
Totally, Paddy. I remember you showing me the price of a brand new Polestar 2, the old model, that you could get a brand new one for £35,000, which I thought was really, really good value.
01:05:19
Speaker
and Yes, I mean, we're in a cycle now where even the early ID3s, for example, um I don't know why we keep talking about VW, but they're just such a dominant force, but they are coming back now and they're looking for their second owners.
01:05:35
Speaker
um And we've had an event a few weeks ago where they were talking about the state of health and the batteries, um which, you know what, if you go into your iPhone, you can see the state of health just two clicks in from the battery ah menu.
01:05:51
Speaker
And that essentially, you know, tells you, based on the amount of cycles, how much, how good or bad your battery is. um And that can be determined from a vehicle. But at the moment, you you need...
01:06:02
Speaker
a third party company to come along and do a check on your your car. i i presume you'll see a day where the state of health will actually just be in the menu of of the car. like Like, as I said, you can see on your iPhone.
01:06:15
Speaker
and But anecdotally, and from some of the the cars ah that came, were coming back in, looking at now looking for the second owners, they were seeing sort of 93, 94% state of health.
01:06:27
Speaker
So this notion that, oh, you know, it'll do half the range or, 20% of the range in a year or two it's they're just not seeing it. No, and we're going to do a bit more of a deep dive into that topic next week. We're going to be talking to David Corbele from Service Stop, who is one of the people on the ground servicing some of these cars when they come towards that end of life. And he will give us some really interesting insights.
01:06:53
Speaker
and And also, yeah, you were, of course, at that Volkswagen Group Ireland talk a few weeks ago, which really gave some interesting insights. The the fact is that these are not just one big battery. It's batteries are formed, you know, it's a number of cells which are in modules and you might have four or five, six modules in the car. So it's really, um you know, it's it's really something that,
01:07:16
Speaker
we can dive into in more depth the next time. But I thought what would be interesting for now would be to talk about some of those examples of used EVs that we saw on dundeal.ie. Now, if you're, so if you're buying a used car at the moment, what are they what are the examples you can get for various price price points?
01:07:35
Speaker
Certainly from looking at the very, very entry point, if you had about, you know, obviously if you had less than five grand, your main option is going to be a Nissan Leaf. Could be, you know the The range are going to be dreadful, but you're going to be getting one of those at an entry point for a couple of grand, two or three thousand euro. So that's something that you could do to start off. And that's, is that 2012, 2011?
01:08:00
Speaker
Yeah, they 2010, 2011. You could certainly get ones at auction as well for even less than that. Really, really early examples would probably be probably best avoided. But yeah, those those ones are are around. if you didn't care too much about the range, if you were just look,
01:08:18
Speaker
you know, I want to get to Sentra and drop the kids to school, this would be very, very cheap motoring. So though that does exist. One that's probably, ah you know, a bit more realistic would be, you know, if you were talking shopping in and around the five grand mark, you could get 2015 Renault There's tons of those around.
01:08:34
Speaker
and We found one today, 91,000 kilometers on the clock, NCT until March 2026. And and that that's that's on there for 5,000 euros. So a decent bargain. 22 kilowatt charging?
01:08:46
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So that's, you know, that's not something you see very often. It's a pretty rare one. One very close to my heart because I had one is a 2015 Volkswagen e-Golf. Now it does have that 24 kilowatt hour batteryter battery, but, you know, which you'll you'll get a bigger battery now in the Skoda Superb PHEV, but amazing value on some of those. You're talking, you know, 7,000 euro for for one of those, which is um it' it's super value for a car like that. Over-engineered car, those were pretty much hand-built in Dresden. but If you could cope with that that low range, you'd be onto a real bargain there. i And I know a few people that that bought them used and none of them had a bad word to say about the E-Golf. Loved it, loved it. Yeah, look, so you know I'm i' a former Volkswagen employee. i so i had ah an e-golf. i I know I've been to the factory in Dresden. I saw how those cars were built.
01:09:36
Speaker
And you know to those cars were ah literally hand-built and um you know incredible machines. And why was that? It was because they were, you know, this was the start of the EV journey really for Volkswagen. So and they hadn't scaled up to making, you know, to mass producing like they have done with ID.3 and four or five, et cetera. So that they took real care and attention to that car. And also they were trying to fit what was, you know, the Gubbins, the EV Gubbins into an ICE e car. So it was...
01:10:08
Speaker
it It was quite Jenga puzzle to fit all of the electric bits into into the Mark 7 Golf. But what a great car. it would you know If you could live with the range, that would be a really, really interesting purchase.
01:10:23
Speaker
And what I loved about it most was it just looked like a Golf, even on the inside. Okay, some of the needles were slightly different, but it had the same gear shifter, same steering wheel, um pretty much the same infotainment.
01:10:34
Speaker
It was just a Golf. Yeah, and and I feel that, you know, I don't know if you have any greater insight, but I do i feel Volkswagen will return to that again. I think we will see and another electric Golf, but, you know, because lots of people think the ID.3 should have just been ah and and ah another electric Golf, but ah that's for another another day Yes, a dieselgate day, perhaps.
01:10:54
Speaker
ah yeah Exactly. We'll throw that to Alan Bates when he's on. and Another one I sent you today, which I thought was interesting, was a 2020 Opel Corsa E. €11,800, 74,000 miles, which would indicate it's probably an import, but a 50 kilowatt hour battery. So not a bad size battery on not a bad size car, but under 12 grand for that.
01:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, not bad value. It's dropped by, what were they, 30, maybe 36 from memory. 100 kilowatt charging speed because it's on that same Stellantis platform.
01:11:30
Speaker
um Reasonably good car handling wise. ah Not when it's cold and you're driving on a motorway like a lot of EVs, but I particularly remember the Corsa. Quickly, the kilometers were dropping when I was using it on the M1.
01:11:43
Speaker
um But again, like this is where you kind of look back at what we spoke about at the start of the podcast. Do you buy a brand new spring or do you buy a four year old cheaper Corsa, which is a bigger car, sturdier car and maybe more familiar to to people?
01:12:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it's one to debate, really. I think yeah i think the the likes of Corsa, though, it's a really substantial car for that money. and And the thing is, as well, you're not probably going to struggle to find a petrol or diesel version for for that sort of money.
01:12:14
Speaker
Another one which... Now, boring, a bloody boring car. like but let's You know, it's it's dull, but, you know, its it will serve you well, hopefully. Yeah.
01:12:26
Speaker
yeah but If you have a bit more money to spend, so just in around 16,000 euro, you can get a 2021 Citroen EC4 with 44,000 kilometers, 54 kilowatt hour battery. and And that's a good car. That's ah that's a decent sized car. It's comfortable, ah pretty decent range and really good standard equipment as well. But like that for under 16 grand would be a really good purchase in my book.
01:12:50
Speaker
very spongy seats. Yeah, very, super comfy. I don't, I don't know if it's, has sold particularly well for Citroen in general. um I mean, really a lot of times you've got to rule out Ireland for some of these figures because we're just,
01:13:05
Speaker
We're so small by comparison. You know, we all like to big ourselves up, but we're very small when it comes to motoring and and sales numbers overall.
Increasing Availability of Used EVs
01:13:12
Speaker
um But it has reasonably comfortable suspension, range of a about probably 300 kilometers on a good day, I'd say.
01:13:21
Speaker
But again, will that catch you to Cork on a motorway? If it doesn't, you won't have to stop for too long. But I think the point is... There's some good options here coming in. And what what really needs to happen is the used market needs to be flooded with EVs. So it's a genuine option for people. You know, when you look at the price of some cars these days, you know, it's 60 grand for a fairly normal car that was maybe 38 a few years ago.
01:13:50
Speaker
The average person just their their wages have not increased at the same rate. No, no. and And I think on that point, I think you had mentioned about PCPs ending and cars coming back.
01:14:02
Speaker
We're starting to see lots of ID.3s and ID.4s coming back and now, and they are good value. There's one undone deal, 2021 with kilowatt hour battery, kilometers, and that
01:14:17
Speaker
So you would, you certainly wouldn't get a golf for that price in 2021. My own brother bought one couple of weeks back and it's outstanding. He got the bigger 77 kilowatt hour pro and, yeah know, brilliant, brilliant car for the money.
01:14:32
Speaker
um so so yeah we we are starting to see those coming back and seeing the benefits of that as well one i i liked mark and
Honda e: Design and Features
01:14:40
Speaker
to round up this one is um the honda e not the best range uh 35.5 kilowatt hour battery but you know with that one you were you were really scraping 200 kilometers from a full charge 67 000 kilometers on this one 7950 but what a car don't know if you spent much time with honda e A fish tank in the dashboard.
01:15:02
Speaker
and not Well, I spent the usual time at would but a lot with a lot of press cars. the The most memorable thing is probably the turning circle in it. ah Even the highest version spec-wise was, think, 31.
01:15:15
Speaker
And I was only out with a friend of mine the other night who bought one last year, the year before, ah in white from Klonsky Motors. And this guy... His collection of cars is substantial. One of his oldest cars is a 1967 Mini.
01:15:32
Speaker
And I said to him, I bet you didn't think your Honda e would also become a collector's item so soon like your other cars, because Honda have discontinued it, unfortunately.
01:15:43
Speaker
and But what a quirky little car. Like from colours to headlights to the interior space. One thing he did say, he wished there was just a, so that from anyone who hasn't been in there's basically three buttons for neutral, reverse and drive.
01:15:57
Speaker
That had to do in a lot of their, the CR-V I think is the same layout. And he hates it. But that's the only thing in the car that he hates. that was That car you could attach, it was either an Xbox or a PlayStation. I think it was an Xbox. So you could play, you know, you could sit in your car and play play games for some reason if you wanted to. But but yeah, great car. it was It was something that I certainly think would be nice. If the prices came down, it'd be a nice one to to hold on and put away because I don't think we're going to see cars like that from Honda for for a while. They've started to become... we're not going to see 30 grand cars from Honda for a while.
01:16:31
Speaker
Their pricing has gone absolutely crazy. I suppose just to round off, lots of people like the ID.4. Cheapest I found on Dundeele, $24,395, which was incidentally in a BYD dealership.
01:16:44
Speaker
And the cheapest Enyaq is $27,950. So um really what we're saying here, I suppose, is that there are really good bargains out there for used cars in the EV segment. If you are shopping around that sort of 5 to 15 price in particular, there's some really, really good bargains out there. If you're not massively concerned about range in some cases, and also if you're not too concerned about what sort of mileage you'll do, because of course, these cars will will lose quite a bit of value as they reach closer to their warranty expiration, if you like.
EV Longevity and Savings
01:17:21
Speaker
Yeah, there's, you know, not to say that an engine or a gearbox in an internal combustion engine car is cheap to replace, but the more there's just been so much negativity. And I think a lot of it is absolute coswell up and it's just people spouting off who don't really have the foggiest about what they're talking about. But equally...
01:17:41
Speaker
people talk, whether they talk in pubs, they talk with colleagues, whatever, and they will tell the stories of my car dropped by X and, should that, that batch will be useless now after five years. And look, time time will tell as well. You know, seeing will be believing. The older the EV fleet gets, the more we'll learn, I suppose. But I'm a firm but believer in, you know, stuff certainly outliving the battery expectations that,
01:18:10
Speaker
you know, people are just pulling out of the sky. um And certainly you've practised in what we preach because we both will, there's an EV in our house in this scenario, you have an EV as well. um yeah Like genuinely you can charge it for feck all at night time.
01:18:24
Speaker
um The rate I'm paying is 10 cent ah kilowatt hour during a couple of hours overnight. And we've gone from spending 150 quid a month petrol on a Qashqai to... Is it...
01:18:37
Speaker
it Is it even 50 quid a month on the area? Probably not. Yeah. I mean, it's a huge, huge difference in in in running costs. and you know Everything from from from your road tax to your to your you know price per kilometer really is it really is a significant
Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser
01:18:54
Speaker
sales difference. They're not for everyone. And I know they're not for everyone at the moment, but the fact is they're not going away and the and the sales figures are are are starting to to look better than they were last year.
01:19:03
Speaker
um But they're here to stay, folks. Yep. So, hope you've enjoyed our first episode of Drivers Republic Podcast. Do feel free to share it with anyone who has an interest in cars.
01:19:15
Speaker
um As Paddy mentioned, next week we'll be talking to ah David Corbley from Service Stop. We'll talk a bit more about state of health in batteries. We won't just be talking about EVs, by the way, just so I know today we've covered quite a lot, but some of the newest products are, by their nature, EV-based.
01:19:31
Speaker
But um there'll be lots of interesting, I think I'll be even... Going on an international test drive for a diesel VW Tyron is how you pronounce by the way, not Tayron.
01:19:41
Speaker
My name's the one over the next few weeks. Tyron. So, yeah, it's just, it'll be all things motoring and everything else in between. and thanks to our ah our our pals at Dundeele as well.
01:19:54
Speaker
I'll probably go off now and browse the vintage section tonight before I go to bed. Yeah, great idea. All right, Paddy, catch you next week. Take care. Bye for now.