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Is paying car journalists the new norm?
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With Jaguar and Nissan announcing job cuts and factory closures this week, the lads discuss the worrying trend of OEMs facing headwinds.
California Dreamin' - we both spent some time living it up in the new Volkswagen camper van, find out how Mark got on in Wicklow and hear how Paddy rolled into Galway - the pros and cons of forking out on a camper van.
And we speak to Natisha Chattan, leading UK YouTube motoring journalist who is dealing with a seemingly growing trend of new motoring brands seeking to pay for editorial in order to gain a foothold in the massive UK market.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Partnership
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Drivers Republic podcast brought to you in association with Dundeele Motors where more Irish drivers find their next car from a trusted dealership than anywhere else. Why? Because Dundeele's Trusted Dealer programme means verified dealerships and the kind of backup that matters like warranties and history checks giving you confidence from your very first click.
Weather Comparison: Ireland vs. Elsewhere
00:00:19
Speaker
Paddy, I have to ask you, how's the weather in Ireland? Just rub it in. It's shite is the only way I can describe it. It's sideways wind and rain, um absolutely bucketing down outside here in East Cork.
00:00:33
Speaker
um um But what about you, though? I'd say you're a slightly different scenario there, right? There's someone paragliding out my window at the moment. it's It's not me, but it's that time when the Queen jumped into Wembley or something. that kind of looks like that. Casino Royale.
Maintaining Healthy Habits on Vacation
00:00:50
Speaker
ah There's a current temperature warning in place from the Spanish government of about 34 degrees to stay indoors. It might reach 36 in Gran Canaria. How many k naps have you had today?
00:01:00
Speaker
I actually haven't. i I'm being very good. I'm only really having two or three beers a day. Apart from the first day, maybe that was a bit heavier. I've been going to the gym. I've been walking sometimes 20,000 steps a day because kids and stuff.
00:01:15
Speaker
Right. So I've, um yeah, it's all right. It's ah it's nice. And are you a man who can who can unwind on on holiday? Do you relax? You're thinking of what's the next thing? Yeah, well, you know what? Freelance life is kind of a weird one. Like, you you're definitely less stressed. If you can not worry about money, you're definite ah definitely less stressed.
00:01:34
Speaker
So actually... Yeah, that's true. There's no major... ah and Like, I don't mind doing a little bit when I'm away. I've uploaded a couple of videos. A few people have rang me about press trips and stuff. Oh, sorry, didn't realise you're away. I'm like, it's fine. It's grand, you know?
00:01:46
Speaker
and So, yeah. And you're like, and andy we are now doing a podcast. Well, it also lets me, you know, leave the heat for half an hour, you know, so it's fine.
Car Rental Experience Mishap
00:01:55
Speaker
On my holiday note, by the way, um I got, the booking was for a Opel Astra estate or Tourer.
00:02:03
Speaker
And when I came out, it was a Seat, or similar, or similar. I got a Seat Leon estate, which still has plenty of ah of space. quite a Quite a modern car in terms of the the version that's on.
00:02:17
Speaker
um There is a bit of a bang of cigarettes off it, unfortunately, but apart from that, it's pretty good. um and I was also, I was also in white Mercedes taxi last night, half a million kilometers on it, felt brand new.
00:02:32
Speaker
would just barely run in then. Yeah, I won the, ah me and a couple of guys, friends of mine, we were going over to the auction a couple of weeks ago and we won the lotto, the lotto rental car lotto of a Volvo XC90.
00:02:45
Speaker
Talk about hitting the jackpot. I'm not sure what the or similar was, but um but yeah, and we were certainly happy with that.
Job Cuts and Economic Impacts in the Auto Industry
00:02:51
Speaker
ah Incidentally, the the last episode of Series 2 of Divers the Public Podcast, I don't know where that one went.
00:02:58
Speaker
Flew in. Flew in. Absolutely flew in. Now, of course, we'll be back at Season 3 very soon. We'll take a little break just to refresh the batteries. Mark can obviously ah ah go on another holiday maybe. i might i might find some sunshine myself as well. but i am But look, this week we're going to focus on... and Well, we're going to start off with... This is pretty...
00:03:17
Speaker
Bad news all around, really, for lots of lots of the car industry. and First one that came out today Jaguar Land Rover cutting jobs. 500 jobs in the UK due to slumping sales and the ongoing impact of US tariffs. Now, we know Jaguar were, you know, the some of the stories that have have been misleading enough. I've read a few ones saying, you know, there's been a...
00:03:39
Speaker
crazy drop in Jaguar sales. Now, we know there has been because they stopped production. They've got no products. They don't have any products. So some of those stories are a little bit misleading. They are rebranding as a full EV brand now.
00:03:52
Speaker
That's been controversial. Some of the ad campaigns were... It's unusual to say the least. i knowing jagu people i know a lot of people in the Jaguar PR department and I am fully convinced that it was on purpose just to um just to cause a bit of a fuss because they I know how these guys think. One of them is ah is a very very wily guy from Northern Ireland called Ken McConaughey.
00:04:15
Speaker
who is is is very smart. So I believe the yeah whole and ad campaign was on purpose. ah but and But no, news news today that they there will be cuts to jobs. 500 represents about 1.5% of JLR's UK workforce. um We've probably seen this coming, Mark. i think you know it hasn't been a great time for JLR recently, right?
00:04:39
Speaker
ah No, I suppose it hasn't. ah And as we've already covered, the lack of products doesn't ever help. And, you know, you you need to mean maintain momentum. And yes, an ad campaign definitely got people talking about them, no doubt about it. But it's not like you could say, now on sale, go check it out for yourself.
00:04:56
Speaker
um Now, the report was that it was, you know, senior managers, not people working at the coalface of it and everything. But look, it's never never nice to hear anyone losing their job. But it's it's also coming on a week where Nissan have shut down one of their original plants in Japan, again, because of work shifting from Japan to China. And I remember a few years ago, someone said, oh, wait you see. The Chinese are coming in the next five years. Wait till you see.
00:05:20
Speaker
And it probably is easy to blame China and certainly tariffs and stuff. I'd imagine if you're losing your job because of Trump's tariffs, which still haven't ever really been sort of decided, you'd be a bit sore over it because it feels like it's nearly an excuse.
00:05:36
Speaker
um Yes, there's uncertainty, but come on. It's hard to see that the Japanese brands wouldn't have seen this coming. um But i think I think it's taken everyone's body surprise just how much Nissan have been affected. And yeah, as you say, the announcement this week that they'll cease vehicle abduction at the historic Opama.
00:05:56
Speaker
and a plant which is in Kanagawa, Japan by March 2028, unless they say a buyer is found. and discard This factory has produced 18 million vehicles, including vehicles like the Bluebird, the Leaf EV, the Note and the Micro, or the March as it's called in Japan. So It's big news that.
00:06:16
Speaker
We got plenty of marches over here in the day as well because the Japanese imports were a big thing in this country. I mean, they're they're actually coming back. But um yeah, if you ever if you're going, oh, March sounds familiar. Yeah, we had we had lots of them. um Now, I suppose any company that's exposed to the US market by that, obviously, I mean, you know, they actually have sales there. You're you're talking... you know, Lexus, Mazda, there's this a lot of brands that are everyday brands in Ireland that obviously have a huge market, as Audi, big market in America.
00:06:46
Speaker
So you don't want ah the president to be threatening these tariffs, imposing these tariffs, 25% of car imports, you know, during the week, not von der Leyen, but someone else was saying, you know, if these tariffs come into play, the trade channel between America and Europe is effectively over because it just won't make sense for anybody. It's just, I think, is it amplifying what was potentially a problem? These, again, legacy brands shedding jobs, shedding production lines.
00:07:15
Speaker
It's all feels like it's all reactionary stuff. I'm sure some people wonder, could they not see this coming? Could they not have prepared for this war essentially that you know they knew was coming down the tracks i don't know i don't work in these in these businesses but um it is sad i mean yeah anyone who who had a dad with a few quid in the 80s or 90s but certainly 80s uh would have had or had a nissan bluebird i remember being in the back of one anyway plenty of times Yeah, do you remember the Maxima then? that was That was really fancy stuff when you got into a Maxima. ah
00:07:50
Speaker
That was a lovely car, a lovely engine as well, a really, really nice car. But if you look at the numbers, they... It was a V6, 3 litre V6, I think, wasn't it? It was indeed, yeah. There was there was a 2 litre as well, but the 3 litre V6 was the really interesting one. A real sleeper because such a...
00:08:04
Speaker
discreet looking car but it could shift and it had really nice ah interior quality as well lovely thing and it was at the time when Lexus was kind of starting to to blossom so Nissan had come back what you know with the without having Infiniti in Europe at the time they they sort of ah pushed in these Maximas which were which were you know really nice sleepers and that was the kind of car driven by someone who wanted something that was discreet there's still you still see a few around you do but especially in Europe usually only ever in gold I don't think I've ever seen a Maxima in any other colour but gold No, I don't think it came and very much others. There's that sort of champagne-y colour. There was a few silver ones around, but I don't don't remember any seeing any other ones.
00:08:41
Speaker
and But if you look at Nissan's numbers, they posted a loss of around $4.5 billion in financial year 2025. Like, that's that's a lot of money. Yeah. So they are in trouble. And, you know, I mentioned on the, on the show couple of weeks back, I'd been listening to the U S podcast, Doug DeMurse one, and they were saying that over there, they're absolutely hemorrhaging sales, hemorrhaging money in the U S as well.
00:09:02
Speaker
Again, as you mentioned, tariffs are, are, are problem, but you've driven or something you've not driven, but you've seen the new Nissan Leaf, which is coming. There's a lot resting on that car, right? There is a lot wrestling and that's the thing. Should such a huge company be looking at one car of a kind of a niche fuel source? Because the Leaf is a global car for Nissan, but how many markets?
00:09:24
Speaker
Electric's just not a thing. Like if you can't sell cars in Africa and in some cases Asia, you know, like you can't be relying on Europe to keep your company afloat. So, yes, it's it's a very different Leaf to the one we've seen. i think it will be of of more interest to a much wider audience. It's got some nice features on it. You know, it looks quite nice.
00:09:44
Speaker
Some of the interior here and there is a little bit of a slight letdown, but a vastly improved car on the Leaf that's been on Irish roads for two generations now of models and it's been around for quite a long time.
00:09:56
Speaker
and it's It's not going to be here until well into next year. um But can one model get a company back in the black? I don't think so. yeah you know They had fallen behind and other brands in terms of the the Leaf as an EV. They'd obviously been the OG, but other brands and other models had caught up. So they've a bit of work to do in order to...
00:10:16
Speaker
to make the leaf a sort of regarded as a ah premium or really attractive offering again.
Challenges in the EV Market
00:10:21
Speaker
Interestingly enough, Ford, and you know, we're talking about EVs there. Ford again this week are talking about looking for voluntary redundancies in their cologne plant and because, you know, they haven't seen EV sales light up the world as well either. So that's, you know, we're looking, we're talking, I suppose, since the start of the show about some major powerhouses and, you know, Jaguar, Land Rover, Ford, Nissan,
00:10:46
Speaker
um suffering because of, yeah in lots of cases, transitions to TVs and um you know these are the big boys and and we're seeing them um get running into trouble a little bit. And and not let's not forget, not quite a year ago, but coming up on a year ago, Volkswagen Group were the same. There was huge trouble in Germany over staff who you know were there all their lives and they were being asked to take redundancy and retire early and cuts and you know So it it is, i think five years ago, would have been um unimaginable for for you to say, well, you know Porsche are having financial trouble.
00:11:22
Speaker
Nissan are having financial trouble. It just wasn't ah a thing. And again, I can imagine if you're just a normal worker in these brands, surely you're asking the question that motoring journalists have asked. Trust me, we have asked.
00:11:35
Speaker
You know, at events when you get to meet some of the management from these brands. Right. what take what takes so long what why haven't you done this why haven't you launched this car why for example in Ford's case have they killed off so many models that were on on the surface anyway appealing to people now I'm sure they'd have a different answer and research and everything to back up their their managerial decisions but I'd imagine in some of these companies in Jaguar is also you'd kind of go well well what were you guys at the top who get paid lots of money doing you you know, where you're not preparing for the future.
00:12:06
Speaker
And again, you don't have that level of control when you're just someone who's who's day in, day out, clocking in and out of these factories. But they're the people always most affected. Like there's a documentary on Netflix that I've been watching and it's about an hour and a half long. And it's basically about the The General Motors company a factory that was ah shut down in Ohio and a windscreen company who make pretty much all the automotive glass for the world, a Chinese company came in and and it talks about and shows you how they tried to integrate Chinese culture into a US based company. And it just was impossible.
00:12:42
Speaker
But again, the story was of of these people who had been GM lifers and how they had been devastated and left without a job for four years. And effectively, this company was coming in as a savior.
00:12:55
Speaker
But when they were working for GM, for example, someone who was on the factory floor was getting $25 an hour. They were having a reasonably good life. Now this Chinese company had come in and they were getting paid $12 an hour, effectively half, you know, and and their lot living costs hadn't changed, you know. So,
00:13:11
Speaker
It's these these huge factories that get closed down, they devastate an area. They do. Look, I can only speak
Volkswagen's Software Struggles vs. Tesla
00:13:19
Speaker
with a ah little bit of insight from the Volkswagen story. And um certainly Volkswagen were caught out by the software issue.
00:13:26
Speaker
and They they ah they didn't know, they weren't able to pivot. They had manufacturing down. They had design down. They had. you know To a degree, they had EV tech okay, but what they were really caught was on being able to produce software that was suitable ah for the cars. They've got better, but that's where the likes of Tesla at the time were handing Volkswagen its lunch.
00:13:49
Speaker
So it's it's the ability in a lot cases of these bigger brands to be able to pivot it and be agile and move, whereas a smaller brand or even we've seen from a lot of the Chinese ones can do that really quickly.
00:14:02
Speaker
Obviously, they're so big and they've had to scale back. And I think that's but why we're seeing so much of this now that it's the it's natural selection. and And we're going to get to a stage where the brands will have to lean out and they'll have to become more agile.
00:14:15
Speaker
Or will we see some of these Chinese companies making bids to try and take over some of these companies and then all of a sudden they do have the heritage that people keep saying that they don't currently have.
00:14:26
Speaker
You know, some huge Chinese family comes in and offers Nissan a load of money to bail them out. Will they say no? the remains to be seen and it's interesting though ah reading Neil Briscoe and this week's Irish Times who paints a picture of that that you know everything might not be absolutely rosy in China either in that a lot of the brands now are exporting models with that already registered and treating them as used cars um and that some of the there's a ah threat that some of the EV factories there will be mothballed even temporarily just due to the lack of demand in some areas as well so
00:15:02
Speaker
While we might think, okay, Chinese are knocking out of the park and and the other brands are suffering, that might not be the case. Really good article if you you want to go on to the Irish Times Motors and read that by Neil. I suppose just ah as car fans, it's kind of hard to see some of these legacy brands struggling, I suppose.
00:15:18
Speaker
Yeah, it is. And, and you know, we these are grands brands we grew up with and, ah you know, have so much heritage. We're seeing so many new brands come on and and they probably, look, they don't mean anything to us. So we're probably leaning toward more towards the traditional ones you know we many of us sat in the back of fiat 127s and uh you know land rovers or certainly you know everyone has been in a forward at some stage and to see these brands starting to to struggle for various reasons is is hard to watch welcome back to the drivers of public podcast which is brought to you by dundale motors home of the trusted dealer program helping you buy with confidence from verified dealerships
00:15:54
Speaker
Now, on a slightly more positive note, um I didn't expect you to be so enthralled with the car you're driving this week. Look, you know this you know this better than I do, but you know you you have that Monday morning rotation and you know we are in a very fortunate position to be able to do that to jump in and out of new cars. But sometimes you're more excited about a car than another car and you know...
00:16:19
Speaker
This week, when I looked at the calendar and I i knew that there was a Fiat coming, I couldn't really pay too much attention to what it was. And I saw Fiat 600 and, you know, but made my way Gowan and tried not to get run over by ah another motoring journalist who nearly ran me over.
00:16:36
Speaker
and I won't name, but I'll name off air. And was... it was a You're quite hard to miss them. But yeah, I know. I think it may have been delivered.
00:16:47
Speaker
But um I was handed the keys by the lovely Orla in Gowan. Hello, Orla. Of the Fiat 600. Now, and it's the color of a Tiffany bag, as in the Tiffany, the the jewelers in New York. And it has what I can only describe as eyelashes. Yeah.
00:17:08
Speaker
and I likened it to Dame Edna Everidge in terms of the front of it um and and on Instagram during the week. But you know what, it's really youve It's more Mrs. Doubtfire now than Dame Everidge. Is that what you're going to tell us?
00:17:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's really good. And I don't know. so For some reason, you just get into a car and you go, all right, okay, I'm going to hate this. And i had got into that with almost that intent, but i hadn't last it didn't last. a few kilometers down the road, i was like, actually, this is really good. And it's correct me if I'm wrong, it's sitting on the same platform as the Jeep Avenger, which is a is a really good little thing in terms of how it handles.
00:17:45
Speaker
A perfectly great little car. and You know, 100 horsepower, 1.2 three-cylinder petrol engine hybrid, Six speed dual clutch automatic, really good on fuel, cheap as you like on motor tax, starts at 30 grand. You've driven this, I presume. I presume you spent time with this car already, right? I had the the La Prima version.
00:18:05
Speaker
ah I presume yours is the... I don't remember eyelashes, though. It was red. No, they're not actual eyelashes. I'm talking about the design as such. Like, no one has actually stuck Halford's eyelashes, although I have seen people do that. Someone please go and put some eyelashes on this car before Paddy hands it back. So my one was red, and at the time, again, the Italians were very upset, as they were with the Alfa Romeo Milano, now called Junior,
00:18:27
Speaker
Because the car was built in Poland and I'm not im actually not sure where the 600 possibly the same. um So they there was an Italian flag on the lower bumper and ah the people people in Ireland had to scrape the Italian flag off the bumper.
00:18:44
Speaker
It was going to show up in articles, YouTube videos, photographs, whatever. And, you know, they they didn't get the memo if they hadn't scraped it off, basically. Yeah, because it's like saying, you know, you're your champagne. i've This is my champagne that I made in mayo. You know, you can't. Yeah, you can't do You can't make champagne anywhere else but Champagne region.
00:19:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, you know what, it's just a car that's really surprised me. I would love it to look a bit different and I would like it to, you know, maybe if you get it in black and maybe if you change the wheels or something or some other variant of that. But it's um it's, I've driven it on and a couple of back roads here, put it into manual mode.
00:19:22
Speaker
It's got a paddle shifter and and it's just got an eager little chassis and it's just like, I quite like this thing. And then when I get out of it, I go, yeah, it has a paddle shifter and I get out of it and then I go, oh no.
00:19:33
Speaker
and So it's just a it's sorry, it's just a car, it's the colour and it's just a little bit of the design. and i mean like i am also not the target audience of this thing.
00:19:45
Speaker
But what I'm saying is, is I suppose that I could be because actually as a car, it's ah it's a little gem. I think that did not win its category in the Irish car the year last year. won won out an award last year. that would have been a revel. But I think, I wonder, would you have enjoyed that car as much in the electric version?
00:20:03
Speaker
maybe just works nicely. but I don't know. i Yeah, I don't know. I think i think as a hybrid, it it works really well. And it's just one of those little surprise cars. Like a lot of the electric ones, you get in and out of them and look, best them, there were a lot of them feel very similar and because, you know, you have no audio clues. The steering's all the same.
00:20:20
Speaker
you know there's nothing really to talk about so getting into something that um has a has a sound and is really decent on fuel um just a surprise car it's just one i you know i i felt very similar about the alfa romeo junior i don't know if it's junior a breed or just you just call it alfa romeo a breed so basically it's the the petrol hybrid version of the junior and uh it's it's over 300 kilos lighter than the the electric version which in a car that size you really feel it um so i had Kind of a similar experience to to what you're saying in that car. That's now, you know, a 1.2 petrol hybrid. And it was just the kind of, it's a nicer car to drive than the electric version. um And sorry, you're right. Fiat 600, I've Googled here, is built in Poland.
00:21:03
Speaker
It shares the same platform as the Jeep Avenger. I think it was the 500X, which was not a 500 size. It was like the precursor. That's the car that Peter Kay used in car share for anyone who watched that show, which is brilliant. But the car was the part of show. Was that the L, no? Or the X?
00:21:20
Speaker
Was it always the L? I think was the 500. was the L, which was like a, it was a, you know, it was a face only you its mother could love, you know? Yeah. So this this is a bit cuter in fairness. and No, it but just look, apropos of nothing, thing it's one of those cars that I've been Just really, really pleasantly surprised by.
00:21:36
Speaker
And I never considered that I could actually drive one of these every day. And I 100% could.
Popularity of Volkswagen California Camper
00:21:41
Speaker
I would have to have it in a colour which isn't slightly more normal. And I would change the wheels out because I don't like the wheels. They look just terrible.
00:21:50
Speaker
But um as a car, it's really good. I think there's it's it' a bit of a hidden gem. and But, however, you and I both, and it's unusual to do this, you and I both drove the same vehicle last week.
00:22:01
Speaker
Yes. And thank you thank you for leaving it back in time and in beautiful condition. We both drove. Yeah, you did. yeah We both spent time in and the Volkswagen California, which I think, anyway, is one of those ones that, you know, a lot of numbers come in.
00:22:16
Speaker
You get your numbers. You know, I'm not straight down to the Ferrari or Porsche dealership. I'm just straight down to Frank Eanes and Ferris Road, the commercial one, and just saying here, when am I getting mine? Two-tone, red and white, everything on it.
00:22:29
Speaker
Thanks very much. How did you get on, first of all? We should also say there's Bright Motors and Airside. They also sell Volkswagen commercial vehicles just like that. I got on very well. um Look, let's let's be very transparent. There are a couple of software issues with that vehicle.
00:22:46
Speaker
The first thing that it identifies as a plug-in hybrid, even though it's two-litre diesel. And by that, I mean, as soon as I fired it up, I got an error on the dashboard to say, warning, car still connected to the Charger.
00:22:59
Speaker
So I looked down, i looked at my rear view mirror, I could hear the digital angel clattering, but I was still questioning myself going, this definitely isn't a plug-in hybrid, like, it's sure it's not. I got out of the vehicle to check for a yellow cable, there was no yellow cable.
00:23:12
Speaker
So that was the first encounter with the vehicle, and I was like, oh. And in my case, and my case ah most of the driving I didn did in it was on motorways, so I didn't have any start traffic in it.
00:23:26
Speaker
And this thing beeps every time you move away, Over to you, Paddy. Well, yeah. So you have i I left on a Friday. Bing! You'd very kindly left it back, and I left on a Friday and went from the M50, which had a crash on it.
00:23:44
Speaker
Bing! Like you can't make it stop. ah that was That's really the only the only thing. Now, look, ah it's probably in early California. It was built early. and You know, you you get software issues. I would be frustrated, though, if I'd spent all that money on that vehicle as ah as a private customer and it was doing that to me.
00:24:03
Speaker
All that aside, the last few times I've had Californians every year, I don't want to just take the thing and, you know, drive for a week and drop it back. I want to actually try and experience what is it like if I was to buy one of these and how would I get on? So, you know, last year actually brought the California to the UK for a few days.
00:24:18
Speaker
This time I didn't have as much time. So I went to Hidden Valley in Wicklow, which is in Rathdrum and it's there a long time, but it's basically, it's like Clara Lara, for those of us remember, with bells on. Yes. you can,
00:24:29
Speaker
Camp there and you can stay there and there's water activities and there's climbing walls. And every time I bring my little boy, he's nearly seven now, he balls his eyes out leaving the place. um And it's not expensive. A good sign. Yeah. And it's like 136 quid for three days of your pitch, which gives you power.
00:24:47
Speaker
Although I couldn't power the Volkswagen. And it's pretty reasonable. You know, it's lights out at 10 o'clock. They don't really like people lighting fires or making noise. And you get, ah like, what I kind of love about Hidden Valley is you get all walks of society down there because there's no, you know, there's no more expensive rooms than the other. So everyone is in the one and everyone's washing their dishes in these communal um kind of s sinks. And it's it's just a good leveler. like And people are quite...
00:25:16
Speaker
like You know, you just end up talking to people that maybe you wouldn't even see on a normal time in your life. It's just weird. I remember like ah last year I looked down and there was someone who had something bulging out of their sock.
00:25:29
Speaker
And my young fellow was kind of trying to spray him one of these water boats. And I texted some mates of mine who were guards and I said, are there ankle bracelets in Ireland for criminals?
00:25:41
Speaker
And they were like... oh yeah and i was like right and i turned to him and i say waterproof will you stop praying spraying that man please i'm gonna and then he goes dad i'm gonna wash the tattoos off and i was like oh jesus shut up oh dear the last what we ever saw mark noble he was a lovely man he was engaged in the chats he was fine but it was just when i saw the ankle bracelet i was like Okay.
00:26:07
Speaker
The California went down. It lived there for three, two days and three nights. It got lots of attention from people. We had a great time. He slept upstairs the first night. I think the second and third night, he was like,
00:26:19
Speaker
No, I want to say stay beside you. And the thing is, the new California is a little bit... So they've basically put doors on either side now because it's based on a multivan. It's never had two doors before. So in order to do that, they've had to shave some space off the kitchen area.
00:26:32
Speaker
That, in turn, shaves some space of the width of the sleeping area. Now, I think you're only talking tents and... 10 millimeters maybe it's it's not a huge amount but it's a little bit tight but certainly if there was two of you in it you could have the absolute crack and you know yes it's a lot of money but as as you're going to tell us now Paddy they seem to be rock solid in their residuals I took it off you. I went to to Galway. I went to Spiddle. Brilliant on brilliantance on the road. Brilliant road manners.
00:27:00
Speaker
ah Superb fuel economy. I mean, you're talking 800-900 kilometres from a full char full ah tank. sorry and Really, really good on fuel. So, um yeah, I got over there. and We stayed in the campsite the first night. and And it's funny, when you drive into a campsite, there is that feeling from other campers that, you know, the OG has arrived.
00:27:21
Speaker
There's a little bit of oh, here's someone at California. and You know, they're there in their process, in some cases, more expensive motorhomes and or they the other ones who are the in the converted vans. And then you drive you drive in, there's a sort of a hushed,
00:27:36
Speaker
sort of respect to you arriving in and they were people come over as well they're like oh you have to California youre California so there was lots of conversations about it um but yeah I was talking i had and and talked to lots of people over the course of the the the couple of days who had come over and just so got me thinking about, and if you wanted to buy one, is it easy? You know, what are the residuals like? Um, and i had an idea already, but I spoke to a dealer, um, during the week and he was telling me that, um, first of all, first of all, they just don't lose money. Like a year old one. And I found that out myself looking on done deal used year old ones at 20,000 kilometers are 95 to euro.
00:28:16
Speaker
So that's actually more than it is to get an entry-level one. you know I think the one we had was about 95, but and even after a year and 20,000 kilometers and you know it's been used, it's the same price, if not a little bit more.
00:28:31
Speaker
Then you just don't find any before that because, and as the dealer verified, and no one trades them in. He says people come and get them. They buy them and they say, okay, I'll be back in a couple of years' time, and you never see of them again.
00:28:45
Speaker
if you if you go on to Dundale and you look for, you know, old camper vans, you'll find like a 30-year-old Fiat, you'll find a 20-year-old Fiat, you know, you you get all sorts. You can't, like, they're just, they're just, don't they're not there.
00:28:56
Speaker
And but they have they do exist. You know, Volkswagen are going to selling them and, you know, they're selling them quite well. There's plenty of them going out, but they're not coming back because people... Just keep them. And look, it makes sense. in minute Oh, yeah. but Because, well, I mean, they're not going to... The thing is, the mileage on them is all is generally tiny. And unless... There's very few people, I think, I could be wrong, driving them as their sole vehicle.
00:29:17
Speaker
if These are, in a lot of cases, empty nesters. You know, people are maybe retired and... they have their maybe one or two car family and they buy this in addition to, and and they go about their business.
00:29:30
Speaker
Even the dealer who was I was talking to saying, if they ever do come back, even at that stage, they still don't have big mileage on them because you know they might go to They might go to Galway, they might go to Donegal, the odd time. But um even he was saying even a there was so a lady in with one, um and i think it was maybe or so.
00:29:50
Speaker
and you were so you know she was still looking for for f d ground for If you're, it's just one of those things, like, ah I believe that it's probably the least appreciating, well, sorry, let's park Porsches and GT3s.
00:30:05
Speaker
But in terms of reasonably regular vehicles, and for if you want to classify a 95 grand as reasonably regular, it's one of the lowest appreciating vehicles you can buy. yeah So if you're if you're, you know, if you're thinking, right, I'm going to buy,
00:30:16
Speaker
drive something for a while, it's a lot of money, but you're going to get a good chunk of that money back and you're going to get the use of, you know, ah and a luxury apartment on wheels, essentially. And and that's the thing about this. you know, people might say, OK, well, why would you do that? You know, because you can get a transporter and if you think about it logically you can buy a Volkswagen a year or two old Volkswagen transporter for say 25 grand now if you threw 30 grand at that you know and you know you'd still be you know for 55 grand it's to be saving a lot of money versus a California you'd have a pretty nice van but it's the finish and it's how everything is put in and how it integrates that I think you're paying your money for it look it is too much money but that's not Volkswagen's fault I think but quite ah an amazing piece of kit for the money
00:31:00
Speaker
Yeah, and the way I think they're one of the last few companies that actually build these in their own factory. So there like there are some amazing companies. There's company called Crozier Campers out there. They're in the UK.
00:31:10
Speaker
You give them a Sprinter and they will give you an amazing finished motorhome back. Now, I think they're 40 sterling. then you know you've got to do vrt you need an engineer's report i think there's a lot of maybe i'm overdoing it but are there a lot of complexities versus you just go into your dealer you buy one of these things and you're on the road you know so but you're right the the finish is is brilliant um you know the the screens you have to operate everything just the lighting in it and look that's not a diss on the the retrofitting companies because i'm sure some of them do fantastic jobs but these are factory built
00:31:44
Speaker
Shout out to the likes of cozy campers in Kildare who I spoke to and when when I did the AA Ireland podcast years ago. Great guys. and And they do an awful lot of work for people. do Do a lovely job as well. and There are lots of operators coming on stream. so But that's the thing is that it would take a lot for you to get to €95,000.
00:32:04
Speaker
yeah you know, handing someone a van and saying, you know, yeah, really would. But, but what, ah you know, what would be even, you know, what's tricky for them to replicate is the absolute precision of everything. and You know, even the way those, and when you open that boot lid at the back and the seats are, are integrated into that and you pull those chair tables out and the chairs, the tables, and the way everything folds and tucks away and those, that new seating arrangement with the individual seats,
00:32:31
Speaker
is really good. And that folding mechanism as well, where that you pull it and folds flat, it's just genius. It's really, really good. And and also, the thing about the... I had driven the Grand California. Did you drive that before? when i did. away ah bigger one I stumbled into a funeral in rural Kerry in one of those things.
00:32:50
Speaker
and And I pulled up meters from a hearse, which still contained the body. And i I genuinely didn't know what the protocol was to do. Should I sit there idling or should I? And I did wait for a few moments and I was i just said to terrible everyone, are they looking at me? And they were like, yeah, yeah. And I just ah just went after. Now I did wait for sort of three or four minutes, but I was more of an inconvenience where I was. Like they're huge, huge things. I did the same. I had it years ago and and we went to...
00:33:18
Speaker
We went to a campsite in Kerry as well, actually. and And I just found it too big. Like, it's it's more comfortable. Obviously, you can stand up on it. There's a bathroom. There's a shower. ah You know, it's a more it's a more of a motor home.
00:33:30
Speaker
Yeah. But driving it is just like, it's a bit of a ball, let' to be honest. It's, it's too you know, especially when you're, and and that's the thing about the regular California. It's one meter 97. It's, you know, it's under the two meters. you You don't worry about where you're parking it. It's easy to drive on country roads. It's brilliant on the motorway.
00:33:47
Speaker
and And you just rock and you rock up to places as well. And this is the thing like next, this you know, we've, we've parked the second night sort of randomly the side of the road and no one cares because you're not a big white motor home. So you just look like a kind of a discreet van and that's the beauty of it.
00:34:03
Speaker
I could definitely see myself driving a ah California every day. The fact that that it's now based on the platform that, you know, they they build so many cars on. So it's the first time. Well, actually, not the first time. I think the first ever California, because there's been seven generations of them now, was actually based on some sort of tweak of a Beetle chassis. Now, we're going way back.
00:34:21
Speaker
and Wow. would have been, yeah. It does drive much better because it's it's on that platform, 100%. and the fuel as you as you said the fuel efficiency because of it like that's the the grand california i remember driving up and down to cahar daniel and kerry and that thing was and look you're putting a lot of weight into it it's already probably close to three and a half ton anyway uh it was very thirsty totally different vehicle and and look i can see where some people might want that if they were if they're you know real pros at at camping but for me look this is it's just such a great vehicle and look they've done a great job it's one of those ones which um
00:34:53
Speaker
You kind think, right, I'm going to do it someday. But for for now, wow, what an investment. Yeah, well, look, if you're listening and you've you've got the funds to do it, um yeah, at least you know now there is. There's a new California.
00:35:03
Speaker
I absolutely love that little table that pops out now because of the second door. i think that's brilliant. and Having two doors is also brilliant just because i had ah I was able to get cables in and out one side and we could get in and out of the vehicle the other.
00:35:17
Speaker
um i do feel that the some of the cupboards, while they still are decent size, the actual opening to them has been made smaller because of the the way they've had to trim back that bench. That's the only thing. I thought some of the the storage areas in the T6.1 and stuff were a little bit more user-friendly. Yeah, you're right. You're right. And that's the thing is if you were able to get your hands on a sort 2018, 19, 21 at the right price, that's kind of going to be a great buy. It's not going to be cheap, but there's actually, they're a little bit simpler tech and, and, and, you know, ah ah apart from the fact that there's, you know, only one sliding door, which is very useful to have the two and the new one.
00:35:57
Speaker
Um, you know, if you were able to find a user, great. And get yourself some earplugs. They're the, they're the last key of the puzzle because, then like in fairness if you if you it's only two of you and you're both sleeping with the roof closed you can't hear a thing it's only when you have the roof open but it is kind of nice to have it open just for fresh air and everything but that's when you know if you are in a campsite you're going to hear other bits of noise but um have And look, one of the best things is it's just gives you time with the people that, you know, are your family and you get to do things that other people can't do because they don't have access to motorhome. And every time I have one of these, i always say to myself, remember, there's someone in Ireland right now who's probably paying
00:36:34
Speaker
two grand to rent one of these for a week. Any of these kind of camper yeah ah companies, know, they're huge money to rent. And, ah you know, as Yoni said, we we're very lucky to be able to get to try these things and also experience them.
00:36:48
Speaker
You know, not normally it's just ourselves in a press card, really, you know, in terms of... getting to experience it i suppose but when you get a california everyone gets to come along yeah exactly yeah some more more advice then from the the the dealer i was speaking to as well that he was saying look if you do want to get one of these um if you want it in time for the summer season of next year you need to kind of be going in now um and you know so so it is the time to to to order that they can take a while they can also take a lot longer if you go for the two-tone paint which I saw I saw one on Italian plates something about Italian plates that just make cars a cooler but there was one and go in Galway and was a it had you know red and white two-tone paint and Italian plates was just like yes what a car why does someone from Italy who's the choice of going anywhere in the world in the California come to rainy old Ireland for summer
00:37:39
Speaker
makes no sense well do you know what though it was 30 degrees in Spiddle when I was there 30 and and whether so they probably didn't feel too far from home it was unbelievable and um so yeah that now if they were here this week but then again Spiddle is perfect with all the you know shops selling iron jumpers and all that crack so over ty street a lovely place to visit I've never been before great great to go Yeah, Connemara also anywhere. And there's absolutely beautiful and west West Cork as well. Like we do have lots of lovely places you could explore to California without even leaving leaving the country. and I have also been driving the multivan, which is obviously based on the same vehicle, but that was the plug-in hybrid. So I kind of, I can imagine what the the California PHEV would be like. um You're going to get...
00:38:25
Speaker
ish of 100 kilometers out of it but also you can silently you know move around the campsite when you're leaving or coming in because a lot of them are very noisy I noticed don't pay the bill yeah yeah yeah well I mean it would it's look we it's like those conversations about you know using things as a PHEV I you know i was in the Cooper Fermenter PHEV last week and I you you and I I met before we were going to Ashford Motors I kept charging that car And the fuel economy is insanely good.
00:38:57
Speaker
So, you look if you you know, PHEVs are great. Should you actually use them as the PHEV? As your identity. That's the thing. yes Otherwise, you're just dragging around a heavy battery with a very underpowered petrol engine. Now, coming up on Drivers Public Podcast, we're going to be chatting to a lady who I've got to know over the last couple of years just from doing this
Natisha Chatton and the Role of Influencers in Car Marketing
00:39:15
Speaker
motoring stuff. Her name is Natish Chatton, and she has a YouTube channel called Autosocial UK, if you've ever seen any tish of Tish's videos.
00:39:24
Speaker
ah But Paddy, she's wondering, and you know you'll be a good almost referee in this debate, can you ever be a motoring journalist ah and be paid for it, or should you ever be paid for it by the car brands?
00:39:37
Speaker
Having been on both sides of it, I do have some some certain views on this, but um but also, do you know what? Tisha's got a lovely voice. She does. People say we are we have a lovely Irish accent, but I really liked how she speaks.
00:39:49
Speaker
It's lovely. I was just sort of like, i sometimes I forgot what she was saying because I was just like lost in the question. I'm sure she'll love that. Well, she's coming up next on this eighth and final episode for this season of Drivers Public Podcast.
00:40:04
Speaker
Welcome back to the Drivers Republic podcast, which is brought to you by Dundeele Motors, home of the Trusted Dealer Programme, helping you buy with confidence from verified dealerships. We have to go international now on our next guest on Drivers Republic because we're going to talk to Natisha Chatton, who is a YouTube motoring person. And I'll let her explain exactly what she is. I'm i'm deliberately being slightly vague with what she does there.
00:40:28
Speaker
Autosocial UK her channels. She has quite a lot of followers. You might tell us actually, Tish, welcome to the podcast. First of all, how many followers have you got these days? What a wonderful way to start.
00:40:39
Speaker
um i Tell us your stats. YouTube's the big one that we we all care about the most, right? So I think it's like 67,000 at the moment. Nice.
00:40:50
Speaker
edging Edging towards there, getting closer and closer every day to the 100%. And Paddy, just to put it into context and everyone else listening, ah Tish and myself, were we're kind of similar for subscribers for quite a while. And then ah maybe a year ago, Tish just sailed on ah ahead.
00:41:05
Speaker
She's like the Lando Norris. But you're not better, Mark. That's nice. You know, it's we're all left. roll clapping each other on. no and absolutely. And maybe some people have but even seen Tish on a couple of videos we've collabed on over the years. have. The Ford Explorer was one of them.
00:41:23
Speaker
So, and yeah, she she very kindly agreed to give up her time to be on my channel. No, I really enjoy it it. adds a different dynamic to what I'm used to. And I'm, um yeah, it's it's nice to put myself out my sort of comfort zone a little little from once in a while.
00:41:38
Speaker
What's also potentially quite interesting for you, Tish, because a lot of creators will say this, ah you know, when they're talking about starting out, you don't need loads of gear. Am I right in thinking and all your videos are done on a phone?
00:41:50
Speaker
Yeah, still. I even have the DJI and I still don't use it to film my ah my actual videos. I still film everything on my iPhone. And you know what? It means that you can just get everything edited and uploaded in minutes rather than hours, right?
00:42:05
Speaker
That's what it is. For me, it's always been very much the easier I can make the filming process and editing process the better. So the fact that I can just airdrop files straight to my laptop has always been kind of really important to me. So but yeah, I am a stickler though. I do get stuck in my ways.
00:42:21
Speaker
So I'm trying to push myself out. I've started using the DJI for another ah clips, like different angles. But yeah, I definitely have my way of doing things. But if it's not broke, then don't fix it. An iPhone or whatever phone these days, you know, you've got 4K, you've got some of ProRes, you know, you don't actually need fancy gear, I suppose, is what was going to say. And Tish, tell me, when Mark is on a video with you, how do and your audience cope with his accent? Do they like it? Do they need subtitles or is all is it all good?
00:42:54
Speaker
I've never had any complaints. And to be fair, I think people complain about my accent more than they do his. so Okay, that's fair enough. Never had a word of it. Never had a word of it. So the reason Tish is goingnna is joining us this week, um I suppose we'll start at the very start of the year. It seems like it was a few weeks ago, but two huge channels. You have Johnny Smith. Everyone knows who Johnny Smith is. And you have JM on Cars. Maybe not as many people know JM, but he has got a substantial following.
00:43:19
Speaker
JM kind of leans into the retro side of things. People give him, it seems, their classic cars. He'll drive them, test them. Very much 20-minute or so piece to camera.
00:43:29
Speaker
He doesn't really do anything outside of the car. It reminds me of when Top Gear was great. Now, Tish, you're probably too young to remember when Top Gear was just 30 minutes and it was, you know, proper car reviews. But JM just has a way of talking to the camera where...
00:43:43
Speaker
you You just, his knowledge is there and you just kind of listen to him. And sometimes he goes to France and does the south of France on some beautiful cars and everything else. and So that's that's kind of what he does. He does the odd new car, but mainly classic stuff. Johnny obviously does a mix of everything from the Barron Fiennes to, you know, you know.
00:44:01
Speaker
Everyone knows what Johnny does at this stage. But at the start of the year, JM got an invite to Jaycoo event, which was another Chinese newcomer to the UK and I presume soon Irish market.
00:44:12
Speaker
um It was quite a contrived invitation. You had to attend a number of events. You had to get paid. ah You had to post when they wanted you had to post. And JM read out the invitation. And at the end, this video said, by the time you're watching this, the event will have happened. So if you see someone who went to this car launch,
00:44:29
Speaker
you know who's getting paid by the car brands. And that was kind of the first outing of this whole debate of influencers slash car people getting paid by brands.
00:44:40
Speaker
um What's happened now is because BYD have got in on a similar kind of vein and sometimes it's influencers more than journalists. They're trying to pay here to get to promote their but brands.
00:44:52
Speaker
You recently did a launch of, ah was it the, ah what was it the two? What was the name? Dolphin Saff. or for everyone else it's the seagull but for us in the UK it's the dolphin surf because we hate seagulls.
00:45:05
Speaker
So you went along to to an event did your normal car review of of the car and all of a sudden then you were getting kind of slightly snidey comments excusing you of being paid.
00:45:16
Speaker
Yeah that was the first I saw light of it and then I dug a little bit deeper to find out where this kind of ah fact that we everybody who'd created a piece of content had been paid. And then that's when I found some of the content that Jay had been creating on his channel.
00:45:33
Speaker
Essentially, JM is disgusted with this idea of anyone ever being paid to, you know, appear and get cars to appear on their their outlets. Am I right in thinking about that? Yeah, that's exactly it and It's interesting. He delved into a lot of different subjects um about different ways that people have been sued and that people have got into trouble and how they're kind of not so great ways of approaching people to promote the brand.
00:46:01
Speaker
And it was interesting because it seems there was a lot of things that he touched on which could have been very, very important. But one of the main things, as we know, that people really get very angry about is is people, mostly influencers, being paid.
00:46:15
Speaker
So it stirred up a little bit of a hate within and and between content creators and viewers. um And people felt that they'd been very deceived and that pieces of content they may be looking at wouldn't have been ah would have been paid for.
00:46:29
Speaker
And it was it was a really difficult situation because I stand the side of the fence where I went to that event completely off my own back. i I paid to travel there. I wasn't paid anything. i didn't sign anything. i didn't have to say anything, which I know some people did need to um state stick by some rules. um So i there was no payment shared towards me, but I was kind of getting the hatred towards it anyway.
00:46:55
Speaker
But I think that all stems from the original content that was shared from the JQ event. And it was because I don't think he did it maliciously, um but Johnny Smith didn't correctly at the beginning say that it was an ad and mark it as an ad. So when people found his content off the back of JM's video, they were obviously really hurt and felt betrayed.
00:47:17
Speaker
that he'd put this piece of content out that they knew that had been paid for, but that hadn't been marked that way. And he did quickly change it. And I do think it was an honest mistake, but it it's definitely, I think it's something we're going to start to see a lot more now of the viewers not being too sure what's paid for and what's organic content, which I know you guys must be listening to and thinking that's going to become really frustrating for us.
00:47:40
Speaker
And Paddy, you obviously have have been on both sides of this. um You've worked in in an OEM brand. what What are the benefits of using influencers versus journalists?
00:47:51
Speaker
Well, look, it's very simple. You have control of the narrative. You control of the message. And, um you know, I'm out of it a little bit of of a while, but I was at the sort of start of the influencer piece, really.
00:48:04
Speaker
um there was less It was less clear in terms of having to mark up what was paid for content and now in in Ireland it's particularly strict in terms of that and and the the the actual influencers themselves are the ones getting in trouble rather than the brands if they're not marking it up so there is more of an onus on it but yeah ah you know to answer the question simply it's if I pay for it I can to dictate exactly what's said if if I'm not and if it's you or another another journalist you know It's in the lap of the gods. You hand them the product and and and away you go. And Tish, do you think JM went far enough to clarify that not everybody was getting paid?
00:48:42
Speaker
No, I think this is one of the big problems. And also the pieces of content that are shared as well. Because I think by sharing that document and also going in a little bit harder when it comes to the Dolphin Surf launch,
00:48:54
Speaker
Um, because it was a completely different way of doing things. I've never been to a launch like it in my life. There was more cars at that event than I've ever seen at any event ever. And they did everything in one day. And I think what they advertised it as having over a thousand influencers creating content and every one of those influencers, which was invited to the event and was there.
00:49:15
Speaker
And they had to sign something to say, I'll create content, um, to kind of ah have the invitation. And then it was like, well, you can't say, you can't compare it to another car brand and you can't speak never negatively about the brand. So this is this is things that has been completely unheard of before, I think personally, to me in the UK within the car industry, there's never been an event like that. It's usually you're invited and you can go and you can create content, and but it's up to you whether you create that content or you're paid and you create content where they control the narrative.
00:49:48
Speaker
The very different thing about that event was people weren't getting paid, but they were still controlling the narrative. And I think that's where it becomes very tricky. But the reason that he didn't clarify that it was every piece of content, and ultimately, they were looking to get in front of as many people as possible. And that meant they wanted people that weren't necessarily focused on cars.
00:50:09
Speaker
They wanted people from all walks of life, and they wanted to share about the car and get the car's name out there, they weren't looking for reviews. If they were looking for reviews, they would have come to me or come to other channels and said, we want you to come to this event. We want you to create a review. But that wasn't the case.
00:50:26
Speaker
The organic pieces of content that they wanted were the lifestyle things and the things that were surrounding the event. So the tricky thing was, is instantly everybody thought everybody was getting paid.
00:50:39
Speaker
But then there was people like me there that was creating long form content that wasn't getting paid. But then there's people creating short form content that was. But in my mind, it's a very clear, different piece of content.
00:50:50
Speaker
You have a piece of content, which is a review, which is my opinions. And i was very clear to compare it to different models. So it was very clearly not a paid piece. But then you have the short form content where right or wrong, I don't necessarily think they should have been asking for deliverables off the back of a gifted event. I think that's interesting. I'll be interested to hear what you think about that.
00:51:12
Speaker
But I think when it comes to the paid pieces, they were paying for short form content. And ultimately, those short form pieces of content were just showcasing the car. They weren't reviews. They weren't saying that they were overly good. They weren't saying that it was overly bad. They were just saying, here's a new car that's coming to the UK and here's some cool features, which in my mind, that's completely okay to be paid for. And if I was approached by a brand who said, we want you to put some short form pieces of content on TikTok or Instagram, and we want you to show shake showcase this new product. We want you to show some of the cool features that it has.
00:51:44
Speaker
I would have no problem. Obviously, I would mark it as an ad and it would be very clear. And I've said that to my audience. If I ever do anything like that, it will be very clear. and But the the water just got super muddy because JM brought up a lot of the issues, which actually I think is quite right to bring up and make people aware of.
00:52:01
Speaker
But then, like you said, I don't think he clarified enough that there was actually it was certain pieces of content that were being paid for, not the reviews. Paddy, you call this like a digital brochure when people do that stuff. I would. And that's, you know, I fully agree with you. That has its place that, okay, if if it's what is the car, what does it have, what does it do?
00:52:21
Speaker
That's perfectly acceptable to be, you know, a collaboration to be paid for. Obviously, it has to be marked, but it's it's a case of, look, this is the new whatever it is. It has four wheels, a steering wheel. it has this engine.
00:52:34
Speaker
It's fine. what Can I just check with you on, you had said about the form. Did you have to sign that form then in order to accept the invitation or did you refuse to sign it or oh what was the, how did that work?
00:52:47
Speaker
Well, this is the interesting thing because I didn't sign anything because I was invited there as a journalist and there was two, set there was it was on the same day, but there was two separate events. So the journalists were invited from just a traditional invitation like we receive all the time saying, do you want to come to this car launch of this new car?
00:53:05
Speaker
ah Here's a press release and and here's all of the details. And that was all I had to do. And then i went and I created content as I normally would. and But also I did get invited because I do tend to toe the line between content creator, influencer and journalist.
00:53:21
Speaker
I also get got the reviews for the second event afterwards. And to be honest, I was interested in staying and doing that, but I had to get onto Le Mans. So I didn't do it But I do know that a lot of people had to agree to a contract. And I don't know if it was necessarily a signed contract. I don't think there was anything that they could come back with you on.
00:53:43
Speaker
But I think it was a little bit of a, to make you feel a little bit guilty, like we're giving you free food, we're giving you free drinks, we're giving you an invitation to a cool event where you can network. And what we're asking for is content. Here's some sort of things that we we hope you stick by. And i don't I don't know because I haven't asked anybody who signed it.
00:54:01
Speaker
I don't know if there's anything to sign, but there was also, this is very interesting, there was also a competition. So if you created a piece of content, which I would think sticks by their rules...
00:54:12
Speaker
And they liked it enough. You had a chance to win and win products. I think it was like an ah iPad. And there was like products that you could win. So that was a very, I think it's an interesting way of not having to sign anything, but making you feel like you have to comply by those rules. So they want you to sing for your supper.
00:54:30
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. Tish, are we talking about three layers then? Are we talking about, okay, one traditional journalist, you come along, we're not going to interfere with what you're doing. Layer two is you're a content creator, we're not going to pay you, but we want you to comply to a certain amount of rules and parameters. And layer three then is we're paying you, you say what we tell you to say. I honestly think there was more layers than the lasagna. it was There was a lot of layers. there was People were being invited with no deliverables. People were being invited for free but with deliverables.
00:55:04
Speaker
People were being paid to create short-form pieces of content. People were being paid just to go there. it it was it was There was a lot of layers of different things. But I think what these Chinese manufacturers are doing is they're giving this and sort of event They're giving it out to hundreds of different marketing companies.
00:55:27
Speaker
And whether they get a cut if the the content is good, I don't know how that necessarily works. But they have a lot of people working on the same project. So what you'll find is because I've had it recently with with another brand, which is going to be at Goodwood, I've had five different emails from five different companies, but all for the same thing, but all with different deliverables, which can get rather confusing.
00:55:51
Speaker
That's insane. And, but you know, the the curious part for me is that it feels like the brands are trying to transplant something that they have done in other markets and seeing either what works or, and put another way, what they can get away with in in a market like the UK. That's a better way of putting it.
00:56:13
Speaker
I think it's really interesting. it's I don't necessarily i don't know what other people are thinking. I don't necessarily think it's bad. I think it's just trying something new, which hasn't been done in the UK. Because when I say these invites, it sounds a little bit like, well, how can some people be paid and some people not?
00:56:30
Speaker
But these invites were to people who have never had an opportunity like that ever before. They were quite small creators. Actually, to be able to be invited, you only have to have 750 followers, which, as we know, most people with just their friends and family on their accounts have sort of 750 followers.
00:56:50
Speaker
So I think the idea of it, however, was to get so many people there. that even if they didn't create a piece of content that went viral, they might tell their friends, they might tell their family, and they just wanted to give them a good experience. they just Yeah, they just want a splash. and Just to be clear, two things. So I'm just back from a Lexus trip, and I was over to talk about their new steer-by-wire system. Now, Lexus also paid for my drink and my water and my room and they even bought me dinner and they flew me there.
00:57:19
Speaker
But at no point whatsoever, and they wouldn't dream of it, would Lexus say, now, and here's what you're going to say about steer by wire. Equally, I will also say, because obviously this is predominantly an Irish podcast, BYD in Ireland is imported by a private importer. So it's not directly from BYD. So...
00:57:37
Speaker
They actually have a PR company here and they do use influencers, BYD Ireland. um ah it's It'll be very clear they'll be driving a CLU for the weekend. They'll be talking about the heated steering wheel and how amazing it is.
00:57:48
Speaker
And they're just trying to get a marketing message out in 2025. It's just a modern way of doing it. and But it it would be very unusual for any brand to ask you to to say what they want you to say, ah particularly when they're not paying you.
00:58:03
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And i I don't think we're going to see that in the future anyway from these brands. But I am interested to know in the future whether we will start to have deliverables attached to these events.
00:58:15
Speaker
Because as we know, we're we're quite lucky that we get these invitations and they trust us enough to create a piece of content But it is interesting with the rise of sort of working with influencers and these content campaigns, whether it will become a time where we will start to say, well, if we're going to bring you to this event and if it's going to be an all-inclusive event, then there's a set of deliverables that we would like you to be able to produce. i think I think that's something we could end up starting to see. I think, though, in a way, it's been there already insofar as like I've for you know i've been a PR for several brands within one group. And while there wouldn't be set of, okay, you need to deliver, if I was bringing Mark along to three or four launches in a row and all he was doing was drinking coffee,
00:59:04
Speaker
at last a sherry and wasn't actually making any content, and there wouldn't be a fifth invitation. Do you know what I mean? Sure. I wonder, is it a case that, okay, it's always been there and the brands are starting to go, okay, well, it's now costing essentially, it could be three, four grand to bring...
00:59:25
Speaker
you to an event if it's in barcelona a mid-july prime hotel prime flights five-star restaurant um and you know there is an expectation of okay if we bring you we need to do something for it we don't control it um is that is it just the case that that's starting to become more formalized but it was already sort of implied Yeah, I think you're correct. And I think that probably comes from trust of companies being around for a lot longer.
00:59:55
Speaker
I suppose when you're a new company into the UK, you don't necessarily have that level of trust with people that you already know. So maybe they feel they have to put an extra level in place. I'm not too sure.
01:00:07
Speaker
Like Tish, you're only back from a trip to Albania with Skoda and there was a bit of lifestyle in that in the sense of it wasn't just car based. You got some nice shots. you were Were you kayaking or were in some sort of a swamp? Yeah.
01:00:18
Speaker
Well, we were paddle boarding, but we weren't doing much paddle boarding. We'd been pulled by boat. Don't ruin the magic. the best The best kind of paddle boarding. But I assume no one from Skoda UK sat you down on the plane before you you took off and said, OK, Tish, here's what you're going to do, OK? Well, I think it's exactly the point that you made earlier, is that I'm trusted enough as a content creator who's been to events which have towed the line of more lifestyle before, that I was trusted that I'd be able to create a piece of content that was both lifestyle but also automotive related.
01:00:48
Speaker
But it would be interesting that that event was much larger. And I know that a lot of the rounds that they had... I do think it's quite common for them to have deliverables on gifted collaborations with the likes of car brands.
01:01:00
Speaker
I guess it's just not necessarily things we tend to see. No. Well, a lot of time I find the the lifestyle people will come after the if you want to call them, the journalist side. So you might get two days and then the PR people will stay on they'll bring them out again and then they'll do the...
01:01:15
Speaker
the kind of the fluffier stuff. And again, look, it's a way of marketing and and showcasing your product. I don't really have an issue with that in itself. Paddy, you don't so much live in the YouTube space, but you're in TikTok and Instagram. And I've spoken with you, though, I know, and and Tish, we've discussed this as well. You have...
01:01:32
Speaker
peaks and troughs with YouTube revenue. um Some months are better than others. I've noticed, particularly in the last three months, just getting more difficult with the same amount of viewers to make what you made maybe back in January, February, March.
YouTube Revenue and Alternative Income Streams
01:01:47
Speaker
And I don't know if that's seasonal or what the hell the reason is for But I suppose we all at the end of the day have have bills to pay. um So that brings me on to the question of, You know, I've never received money from anyone to review a car.
01:02:01
Speaker
Is there ever an excuse or is it ever acceptable? are you totally compromised if you take cash? yeah I mean, it depends on what the context is. I think there's the fact is that being, you know, whatever you want to call yourself, YouTuber or journalist, whatever it is, you come with a set of skills that's very desirable to a manufacturer because you're.
01:02:20
Speaker
you you You can present, you can speak coherently, you can you know the product. So there are situations where it would make sense for you to be able to showcase a car, not say if this is the best car I've ever driven, but be able to walk around a car, especially I think in terms of explaining things like new technology, how an EV works, how a PHEV works, you know what how how to charge your car, that kind of thing. I think is i think it's absolutely fine.
01:02:49
Speaker
and once it's made very clear what it is. And I think that has existed for years. I think journalists have done car, you know, in-house magazines for manufacturers and there's been no no issue with that because look, at the end of the day, it's it's not always the best paid profession. So you do need to have a revenue stream.
01:03:08
Speaker
And it's why you see so many journalists to go into PR roles. I did the same myself. There is that. ah I think at once it's very clear, i but what if it's somebody, if it's a journalist saying this is the best car in the land, it's amazing for money. Well, no, clearly then ethics has gone out the window.
01:03:27
Speaker
And that's so interesting because that is exactly the point that I've been having with a lot of people when I have this conversation, because I think people see it very, very black and white because they're not in the PR ah space.
01:03:38
Speaker
or they're not in the content creator space. So they see this contract that JM has shared and they go, right, everybody that has done a review on that product is being paid when it's not that black and white. In fact, brands don't want reviews.
01:03:53
Speaker
That's not what they're interested in. They like the fact that people have reviews in which they're balanced and they say good things and bad things and they like that they have that and also that they don't have to pay for that.
01:04:04
Speaker
What they're paying for is fun content. They want road trips or they want something which doesn't center around the car. It's a fun trip where whether it's like a fuel challenge where you see how much fuel you can use, which was what they did with the J7. And actually, I did think that the content that was created was super fun.
01:04:23
Speaker
The reason that it becomes such an issue was because the content that Johnny Smith created wasn't as much of a fun road trip. It was a bit more of a review. And I think what happened is he just kind of fell into what he does normally, which I'd probably do as well. You fall into that routine of,
01:04:41
Speaker
this is how I normally do a car review. And I think the problem was, is the content wasn't defined enough as being different to what he usually creates. That paired together with the fact that he didn't start it by saying, this has been brought to you in collaboration with, or it wasn't made ideally clear. Didn't he have to beat up a pinata as well, there was something in that car?
01:05:01
Speaker
I don't think I got that far. Oh, so it was more fun then than I thought. I think there was, and there was some kind of weird sweets in the armrest or whatever. Look, it's not the typical stuff he does, but, you know, ah we we haven't mentioned it yet, but if anyone has seen it in the last week or two, Chris Harris has done very clear ad, in fairness, that you would never think it was a review of tyres.
01:05:22
Speaker
And I think it's on his Instagram. And again, look, Chris is not on Top Gear anymore. I'm sure he's got children to feed. And if anyone wants to offer him a load of money to talk about their tyres, why shouldn't he?
01:05:32
Speaker
But it was very clearly... defined, you just knew by looking at it what it was. That's what I've said to my audience when people were saying to me, and was you paid for this? Is this paid for on the BYD content? I said, it's not, but I'm also not telling you that I won't ever do anything paid on this channel.
01:05:50
Speaker
But I'm giving you my word that if I do ever do something paid on this channel, it's probably not going to be a review. It will be a card that I know that I'm confident in. I would never say yes to doing a piece of content which is positive,
01:06:02
Speaker
about a car that I know that isn't any good. I'd make sure that I vet the product first. I like the car. I like the product. And then I'd make it very clear that it was a collaborative piece of content or exactly like Paddy was saying, it doesn't have to be a review. It can just be a walk around.
01:06:17
Speaker
And a walk around is just showcasing parts of the car. This is the battery. This is what the systems are like inside. And it's it's more of a showcase of the vehicle rather than a review. And I said to them, you can maybe expect that in the future. I would hope so, because with how things are with YouTube at the moment, like we said, I've taken a dip as well. So you do need those little bits of top up.
01:06:38
Speaker
But I did say to my audience that if I ever do anything like that, it will be extremely clear that it is a collaborative paid piece of content I mean, consider, you know, if I was PR manager for a major brand, ah if I'm sending Tish and Nobby to drive to Berlin from Dublin in two electric cars, the amount of briefing that I'm going to have to do for you guys compared to two influencers in inverted commas or celebrities or whatever else is night and day. Because I'm not going to need to tell you how the battery works or what ah you know how what a kilowatt is or ah you know the how the infotainment system works. It'll be a case of, look, here's what you need to do. Get to Berlin in as few charges as possible and talk about the journey.
01:07:27
Speaker
So that's the instant appeal for ah PR person because it's going to be informed content. It's not necessarily an opinion, but ah you know I've seen so many instances and experienced so many instances of giving influencers or otherwise cars or celebrities, particular cars,
01:07:46
Speaker
And they'll come back or do a piece of content talking about the entirely wrong engine. this was you know This was a 1.2 litre TDI. i Well, it was a 1.6 petrol, but never mind. a good effort.
01:07:58
Speaker
Yeah. so But that that happens. and And it can happen after the... you know, the after the horse is bolted. So that's not going to happen if you're doing a piece of work. And they look, at the end of the day, we watch TV shows.
01:08:11
Speaker
They have ad breaks in the middle of them. And no one goes, oh well well, I can't trust the news because it had an ad break. you know So it's the money has to come from somewhere. like so If suddenly on your respective channels, if you started charging five euro or five pounds per video to watch it, people would suddenly be going, oh no, it's okay. You you do a walk around there, you're BYD, no problem.
01:08:36
Speaker
Well, do you know what But I do find, and I obviously would happily go to a walk-around world premiere of a car because sometimes they give you the best views. But you do, I am always very conscious of, like I did the Volkswagen ID.1, I think was the the most recent one I did.
01:08:49
Speaker
You know very little about that car apart from what the brand are telling you. And then you... regurgitated in your own words and you say what you see and you go thanks for watching and hopefully i get to drive this car before the end of the year blah blah blah um and that to me is is the closest thing to that kind of oh everything's great i mean yeah you'll still find something you'll still go oh well could they not have put vehicle to load on this or well i don't know about the face on that car the headlines look a bit weird let me know what you think you'll never get that from an influencer but you there are times when you yeah kind of are sort of being a messenger for the brands. And I think first look walk arounds kind of fall into that category.
01:09:26
Speaker
hundred percent, especially if you, you know, that is the, one of the last pieces of the puzzle that they have that's in a very safe zone, because as you say, you've, been you've been given, the only information is one that you've been given.
01:09:39
Speaker
You're tired.
Transparency and Ethics in Content Creation
01:09:40
Speaker
You've, you're scrumming around a car that you have minutes with. So unless you actually say, i think this thing looks like an absolute pig, I hate, hate it. Then it's pretty much going to be a show and tell. And yeah well, look, you still ah got paid for it. From my perspective, you know, I've done this with, you know, with the new Skoda Kodiak when it came out. I went to a studio in Prague and I know that car is going to do well and think the video is over 100,000 views. And look that will that will give me a little bit of money to get from one end of the month to the next. But, ah you know, SCOTAR is still not paying you. But yeah they're easy wins for everybody, I suppose.
01:10:14
Speaker
um I think the way to to sort of wrap up this conversation, and I think it's very interesting for us just to have a very transparent chat about it. And and none of us, has to be said, are on the influencer side. probably wouldn't be a bad idea to to get things from their perspective.
01:10:27
Speaker
But I think... From the consumer end of things, we all have an obligation to maybe be very clear as to what the content is going forward. Yeah, definitely. And I think it's very interesting, even though we're saying that we're we're not influencers, I do think with the rise of influencers, it will be interesting going forward whether there'll be new things put in place when it comes to us as content creators.
01:10:51
Speaker
to mark things as gifted, because that's not necessarily something we're used to doing. But should we be sharing that things are gifted when it comes to things like the Skoda, the Albania trip?
01:11:03
Speaker
I actually did mark that as a gifted trip, because I thought that's something which goes a little bit further, because it's not just being flown out somewhere, not seeing the country, taken to some conference room somewhere, and then seeing a car and then going home. This was a bit more. We were doing trips, we were doing fun things, and I felt that that needed to be marked as that. I am wondering whether there'll be more things in place even for us as, and even journalists, ah even written journalists, whether they need to be marking things more as gifted.
01:11:34
Speaker
Yeah, perhaps. But what's going to happen if that happens, and you know, to a further extent, is that you will start seeing, you know, journalists saying, I'm not going. And chill manufacturers will start to have to bring cars to a very banal car park in Bristol and say, away you go there's the keys.
01:11:55
Speaker
And, ah you know, they and you will, and but from the manufacturer's point of view, they lose out because their cars are on kind of ugly roads in grey weather. they don't photograph well and no one has a particularly nice experience. So we're we're still at a stage where everyone is kind of winning. But I think if we get to that point of journalists having to say, okay, well, I only i you know i paid for my own lunch, I paid for my own room, there will be fewer people going.
01:12:25
Speaker
Because it essentially, like as an in you know you guys wouldn't want to be paying for yourself. But also, the Irish Independent won't be paying for you to go or the Irish Times won't be paying for you to go.
01:12:36
Speaker
You know, it just won't happen. So and I think you would you would see the end of the that sort of event. I'm just trying to think even ah in your neck of the woods, Tish, somebody like Rob Gill who works with The Sun and he he's he's a very charismatic, funny kind of guy. But I can imagine if he was told he had to put his hand in his pocket, he'd say, well, I'm not going. and And to the brands, that'd be a double page spread and in The Sun in the UK that they're not, you know, they're missing out on and still very important. to Definitely.
01:13:03
Speaker
Okay, well, Tish is on autosocial.co.uk. If you'd like to go follow the website, um go subscribe to your channel if you're not doing so.
Conclusion and Future Plans
01:13:11
Speaker
I think this conversation is going come up more and more, but I think what we need to do is just be very clear that we're not getting paid and we're here to be impartial and hopefully hopefully providing a ah service to the consumer who's getting our advice, should you buy or not.
01:13:24
Speaker
Certainly. Well, thank you so much for having me. No problem. I'd love to meet you, Tish. we might I might see you at some stage at another event. cross over at some event I hope so if you see his name on one of the name is that one of these invites with a a contract list Tish exactly Jake who underneath thanks very much to Tish for dropping into us um virtually however way you want to do it i actually do find it amazing like you know the some of our podcasts this week recorded from Grand Canaria some in Cork some in the UK we're just we've gone international Paddy
01:13:58
Speaker
Yeah, we have. And um but well we we certainly will be back with more. This is the end of season two, but we'll be back. And thanks to John Deale for sponsoring us again for season three. So we'll we'll we'll take a quick break for a couple of weeks, but we'll be back at season three. And we've have a really ton of interesting guests lined up, which we'll ah reveal later in the series.
01:14:16
Speaker
ah But officially, this episode was brought to you in association with Dundale Motors, where more Irish drivers find their next car from a trusted dealership than anywhere else. Why? Because Dundale's Trusted Dealer Programme means verified dealerships and the kind of backup that matters, like warranties and history checks, giving you confidence from your very first click.
01:14:32
Speaker
See you next time.