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God & Government: How To Approach Politics as Christians
53 Plays7 months ago
In this episode, Dan Sanchez and Ridley Barron discussed the intersection of faith and politics, especially in light of recent events in the United States. They explored how Christians should engage with the political landscape, the role of government, and the importance of voting and public participation. The conversation also touched on the moral responsibilities of Christians in politics and the need for discernment in navigating today's complex and often confusing information landscape.
Timestamps:
00:01 Diving into current hot topics in politics
00:36 The role of Christians in politics
02:16 The influence of faith on political engagement
06:57 Founding principles of America and religious freedom
10:12 The concept of government in a Christian context
14:20 The role of social media in political discourse
20:01 Recent political events and their implications
27:02 The importance of voting as a Christian duty
Recommended
Transcript
Welcome and Introduction
00:00:01
grovehillchurch
Welcome back to the Grove Hill Church podcast. I'm Dan Sanchez, and today I'm here with Ridley Barron. as We're going to be diving into, not the sermon from last week and not even from two weeks ago, but we're going to be diving into some hot topics because a lot is going on in our world right now. and You could say a lot's going on in the US right now, so much so that the whole world's paying attention.
00:00:20
Ridley
right
00:00:20
grovehillchurch
and I thought I was talking to Ridley and We were discussing the fact that we should probably bring these up because there's so much going around. There's so many turns. It seems like every week, if not every day, there's something major happening that it can often be confusing.
00:00:30
Ridley
Yeah. Mm hmm.
00:00:36
grovehillchurch
confusing it can be You can get into disillusionment real quick over the changes or power receive power, like things that are going on in the world. And so I thought we'd have a fun conversation about how to approach all these things especially happen in politics right now as Christians.
Should Christians Engage in Politics?
00:00:53
grovehillchurch
So I wanted to like open up with that question for you, Ridley. As the pastor of Grove Hill, how how do you think Christians should approach this topic in general of of politics?
00:01:04
Ridley
Well, first of all, I think that we have to be engaged in the political future of our nation. If we step back and and try to pretend like or even become isolationist in our thinking and the way we behave, then we get what we deserve, right? If we're not voting, if we're not politically active, And what's so sad is there are actually some very prominent people who call themselves Christian referred to themselves as Christians in the evangelical church who are a lobbying for the very opposite mentality that faith doesn't belong in politics, which I think is I think that's just an obscene thought to believe
00:01:25
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:01:31
grovehillchurch
Yep. yep
Faith and Politics: Inseparable Elements
00:01:42
Ridley
that.
00:01:43
Ridley
a man. let's Let's say that Dan Sanchez wants to run for office. How does Dan Sanchez step into a role as a political official and be elected and leave behind the things that that shape his values and his character?
00:01:56
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:01:57
Ridley
so we there and this This isn't just a Christian question, but whether you're a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Mormon, a Christian, whatever,
00:02:03
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:02:05
Ridley
Christianity is what shapes us as believers. And so when we step into that arena, we have to by necessity bring that with us.
00:02:15
grovehillchurch
It's interesting. I had a big question about four years ago in the 2020s were happening and it was just like, whoa, it's got crazy. in the twenties because of the, the, the COVID and all the shutdowns. And I was in Minneapolis when the riots were happening and it was just craziness.
00:02:28
Ridley
Right.
00:02:52
grovehillchurch
in
00:02:53
grovehillchurch
you know, and in a compassionate and loving way.
Christian Approaches to Politics
00:02:55
Ridley
Right.
00:02:55
grovehillchurch
So that's one group. Another group was saying, no, we should be in the world, but not of the world, which kind of creates this Christian subculture, right?
00:02:58
Ridley
Yes.
00:03:04
grovehillchurch
that's That's kind of where like, even especially youth groups have kind of been for a couple of decades, right?
00:03:08
Ridley
Yes, right.
00:03:10
grovehillchurch
And then there's the third group that says like, no, we should withdraw what I even i read a book on it, it was called The the benedictine the Benedict Option. Benedictine was and it was a like a church leader that kind of withdrew from the Roman Empire and had his little monastery.
00:03:21
Ridley
Mark.
00:03:24
Ridley
yeah Yep.
00:03:26
grovehillchurch
That's why you have Benedictine monks, because those were the Christians who just kind of went went out in the woods and lived by themselves and did things their way, completely separate from the world.
00:03:32
Ridley
Right.
00:03:34
grovehillchurch
And then I have some friends that are like, well, you know, different people are called to different parts. That's kind of been historically true. Some people have pushed hard. Some people have retreated. And we're happy for the people that retreated because, you know, they preserve some really nice libraries for us that we wouldn't have probably otherwise, you know, just so you're like, it seems like God has a way of doing all of them.
00:03:43
Ridley
yeah
00:03:49
Ridley
Right. Yeah.
00:03:54
grovehillchurch
Of course, my usually my friends that are more on the like, we got to fight, we got to fight or like, no, it's all wrong. We have to fight and we all have to fight together. which I know are the guy we we both listened to, Al Molar, is more on the we should push, right?
00:04:08
Ridley
Right. Yeah, absolutely. like If you go back, instead of reviewing the revisionist history that's being taught in most of our public schools today, and you look at real history based on the actual documents of the time period, you realize that it is people of faith who began the dream of America.
00:04:24
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:04:24
Ridley
They were pursuing something different than where where they were in Europe, most of them based obviously in Western Europe, England, places like that, came to this country for the opportunity for people to have religious freedom. now Religious freedom makes a lot of evangelical Christians very uncomfortable because if you're going to have religious freedom, you really truly have to have religious freedom. We we try to equate religious freedom with everybody's supposed to worship and act the way I do, and that's that makes it free. But in this this world today, you're very you're you're correct.
00:04:58
Ridley
There's different levels of engagement, different levels of involvement, the different camps who believe we should be in and not of this world. I believe that the ones who are gonna have the most impact are the ones who are willing to stand in support of the government as long as the government supports God. But if it ever starts to contradict God, then I feel like as Christians, we have a responsibility to redirect the attention of the nation.
00:05:16
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:05:26
grovehillchurch
I've been tempted to pull out and just kind of retreat before and some, some of my friends from Minneapolis who probably would probably say, Hey, meet you move into Tennessee and Chapel Hill and going homeschool route is kind of you doing that. And I'm like, yeah.
00:05:36
Ridley
Yeah. Yeah. Kinda.
00:05:38
grovehillchurch
I didn't feel like I was going to win in Minneapolis,
Christianity and the Founding of America
00:05:40
grovehillchurch
so I picked a different front.
00:05:41
Ridley
Right. That's exactly right.
00:05:43
grovehillchurch
like that was gonna be like I had some friends trying to push politically. I'm like, you're we're too late. Even in Bloomington, which is a met like a suburb a very influential suburb of Minneapolis, where the Mall of America is. like the whole board or the the whole city council was like far left. And then it was disagreeing about how far left they should be on the things they were voting for.
00:06:00
Ridley
and
00:06:04
grovehillchurch
I'm like, we're not gonna, you're not gonna turn the city council like with, I don't know.
00:06:08
Ridley
right
00:06:10
grovehillchurch
But now I'm a marketer. So I'm usually wanna be loud and upfront and try to influence. So that's always been my natural bent. yeah the Talking about the and the founding of our nation, though, there's a lot of Christian thinking, mostly Christians. I mean, a lot of they fled persecution, you know, from the UK.
00:06:28
Ridley
Right. Right.
00:06:29
grovehillchurch
So a lot of them, a lot of these pilgrims were here to essentially have religious freedom. But it wasn't all religious freedom. I know, like, growing up in school, you hear the name of John Locke a lot, philosopher, good guy.
00:06:40
Ridley
Mm hmm.
00:06:41
grovehillchurch
But then you hear John Rousseau,
00:06:42
Ridley
Mm hmm.
00:06:45
grovehillchurch
Another philosopher, and I didn't know the difference until later, but Rousseau's influence was heavy, too.
00:06:47
Ridley
Yep.
00:06:49
grovehillchurch
But he's, you could call him, I don't know if you'd call him anti-Christian, but a lot of his beliefs are, doesn't align with the Bible, too.
00:06:54
Ridley
They're very secular for sure.
00:06:56
grovehillchurch
So, yeah. to So, a little bit of the foundings of mixed bag, but there's obviously a like huge Christian influence in the thing.
00:07:05
Ridley
Right. If you take a very close and objective look at what goes on in our government, the way our government structure and stuff like that, you see so many fingers pointing back even to scripture. The idea of our judicial system is based on the story of Moses when his father-in-law Jethro came to him and said, you can't possibly sit and hear all the cases of all the people of Israel. There are too many for you. So appoint people who will hear the cases of fifties and hundreds and that kind of stuff.
00:07:32
grovehillchurch
Yep.
00:07:32
Ridley
Well, our judicial system is based on that very concept. The documents, the founding documents, at the very minimum, and i would I would argue 95% of the documents that we have are at least deist and acknowledge the existence of a God.
00:07:46
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:07:48
Ridley
But I would say probably a large, large number of that 95%, 75% is right in line with Christian teaching. that not only is is God there and God created humans, but God is actively engaged with humanity and therefore we have a moral responsibility to live according to that relationship.
00:08:11
grovehillchurch
I've noticed there's a trend to be anti-government.
00:08:16
Ridley
Yeah.
00:08:17
grovehillchurch
So is the government a bad thing then?
Government's Moral Responsibility
00:08:19
grovehillchurch
Or is it a good thing? Just run by fallen people.
00:08:24
Ridley
I think government is absolutely a good thing. I think the government has a moral responsibility to provide it for and protect its people. I think government was established by God. Reluctantly, God would have preferred it had been a theocracy where he was you relating to his people. That was very clear in the Old Testament.
00:08:41
grovehillchurch
yeah yeah
00:08:44
Ridley
But when we get to the book of Judges, the book of Judges, the the end of the story is that the people go, man, we want a king just like everybody else. And so God says, okay, I'm going to give you the government that you're seeking reluctantly, but you're going to honor that government. You're going to pray for that government. You're going to respect that government as long as that government does not ask you to contradict the teachings that I'm going to give you.
00:09:03
grovehillchurch
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:04
Ridley
And so even all the way fast forward into the New Testament, that's the teachings of Paul. you know Pray for those who are in authority over you and and submit yourselves to those authorities. But there's always this caveat that when the government doesn't operate according to God's laws and commands, then you have a moral responsibility to withstand that pressure. the The obvious perfect example is a government that pushes for abortion. That's a direct command against the the sanctity of human life, the precious nature of a child, the intentional design of the creator who creates all of us with a purpose.
00:09:42
Ridley
I mean, so many levels, that's wrong. I think as Christians, we have more obligation to resist those kinds of laws
When Should Christians Go Underground?
00:09:48
grovehillchurch
Yeah. Is there ever a time when the church should go underground? Like at what point do you draw the line and be like, okay, like can't fight publicly anymore. Otherwise they're going to come for me. Like at what point do you go underground and be like, do what the early Christians did and hide in catacombs, which are like old tombs.
00:09:48
Ridley
being put into place.
00:09:59
Ridley
Wow.
00:10:05
Ridley
yeah Yeah, I mean you can even you could even argue that there's a lot of that in the early days of World War II when there were Christians who helped hide Jews and protect them and you know resisted what Nazism was doing to Europe at that point. I think there There has to be a discernment of, is this a battle we can move down the field? okay if Not that we can necessarily win it overnight, no battles won overnight. But if you can continue to regain territory, if you can continue to push back and regain the moral compass of a nation, then I feel like you have an obligation to be public in your engagement and to be involved.
00:10:42
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:10:45
Ridley
But if you get to that point where the government's got you locked down to send anybody out to try to to confront the government as a suicide mission because there's just no room, then I feel like the church, again, has an obligation to go underground to maintain its viability so that there is always the presence of the church in the culture, whether it's recognized or public or not.
00:11:10
grovehillchurch
We're not anywhere close to that yet.
00:11:12
Ridley
No, thankfully not.
00:11:12
grovehillchurch
And hopefully we never do, but
00:11:14
Ridley
And I do feel like if you watch very closely what's going on in our country, there seems to be a slow turning back to some really strong conservative stuff.
Caution in Political Engagement
00:11:22
grovehillchurch
yeah.
00:11:23
Ridley
The issue of transgenderism in our country as more and more scientists are becoming out now saying, hey, you know, the transitioning of kids is bad. The giving of hormones is awful. The treatments we're doing is is not good for these kids. It's like people are waking up and going, oh, wait a minute. You mean the government hasn't been telling us the truth about all this so long? and So now even some secularly based organizations and people who are not driven by Christian values are beginning to step up and go, maybe we jump too hastily too.
00:11:44
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:11:54
Ridley
recognize this group of people and it's time we rethink these things. And I think if the church is going to be effective, two things we've got to do. Number one, we've got to get out and vote because it's a right that has been given to us. And we have to be very vocal in supporting this swing back around because it may be the last chance we've got to try to get some momentum headed in the right direction.
00:12:14
grovehillchurch
When you say be vocal, does that mean posting about your opinions on social media and re reposting Trump memes?
00:12:23
grovehillchurch
Like what does that mean?
00:12:24
Ridley
I think within limits, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with you expressing values that you have.
00:12:31
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:12:31
Ridley
I think you have to do it with a realistic expectation. You're not going to sway people's votes by social media posts. You're not going to convince, you're not going to convince a Joe Biden supporter to vote for Trump because you put some catchy little phrase out there. You might cause someone to begin a conversation, you know, if you express it in the right that way. But here's what we don't have permission to do. We don't have permission to belittle other people. We don't have permission to use derogatory language towards a class of people because the same people who were created in the image of God to become a conservative Christian are the same people who were created in the image of God to be an atheistic, you know, whatever.
00:13:09
Ridley
So I feel like social media has its limited possibilities, more on information front rather than an actual transformation front. But even when you do that, you got to be real, real, real careful because you can put a real, you can cast a really dark shadow on all Christians because of the way you act on social media.
00:13:20
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:13:31
grovehillchurch
Yeah, I do have a couple of friends that are like, they're not social media warriors. I mean, they're actively going out and preaching the gospel and planting churches and all that kind of stuff, too. But they're also out active in social media.
00:13:40
Ridley
Yeah.
00:13:43
grovehillchurch
And what do I find they do really well is they're active in the comments. Like they're actually trying as hard as they can to have conversations with people. And of course, as soon as the conversation becomes like, well, you're going to argue whether red's red or blue's blue, then we're not because we can't even agree on the simplest things.
00:14:00
Ridley
Right.
00:14:00
grovehillchurch
But I have seen some help from it because it helps it forces people to think when you ask tough questions.
00:14:00
Ridley
Yeah.
00:14:04
Ridley
Hmm. I think two things that you can do as a Christian on social media. Number one, like you said, is create honest conversations.
00:14:13
grovehillchurch
All right.
00:14:14
Ridley
Help me to understand why you feel this way, you know, and let's talk about this because then there is a chance that you might say something or share something that changes the way they look at it at someone's perspective. I think the second thing you have the possibility to do is to talk about what you know to be true in your own life. Nobody can deny your testimony. That's the word we use in the Christian church, right? Nobody can deny what Christ has done for you. Nobody can not can deny what you have experienced in your own personal interactions with the government or personal interactions with
00:14:45
Ridley
past experiences, those kinds of things. So in sharing those, I think that's safe. But where we get into trouble is where we start casting wide nets over all groups of people or this way. We get into trouble because we are very quick to share conspiracy theories without doing anything to check the background on them. We, mean I mean, you probably have seen as more than I have, Dan, because of what you do, but on Facebook and other social media, we'll share stories that are six years old and act like they're yesterday's news and not even pay attention to it.
00:15:18
grovehillchurch
Yup.
00:15:18
Ridley
And it's already been disproved five times over and we're sharing it like it's brand new information, you know?
00:15:23
grovehillchurch
Yup. Yup. Just some information that's so tantalizing. It just demands to be tapped shared on. And it used to be those like chain emails.
00:15:29
Ridley
Yeah.
00:15:31
grovehillchurch
You ever get those chain emails like before this to five friends.
00:15:32
Ridley
Oh yeah. yeah Yeah, but here's the danger.
00:15:36
grovehillchurch
Your all your hopes and desires will come true.
00:15:38
Ridley
Yeah, you and I talked about this a little bit before we came on to the podcast, but one of the dangers in our culture today is because of the overwhelming mass of information that we have at a moment's notice.
00:15:40
grovehillchurch
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:50
Ridley
I can literally come on here as an opportunity and take advantage of the internet. And if there's somebody I don't like who's my political opponent, if I have no values, no no inner moral drive that causes me to think about right and wrong. I can say Dan Sanchez stole a million dollars because he's a corrupt politician, even though I know it's a complete lie, because I can come back 30 seconds later and to make myself feel better, go, oh, I'm sorry, that was bad information, but it's too late because it's now been shared by millions of people in a matter of seconds and you can't go back and put it back into Pandora's box.
00:16:23
grovehillchurch
Yeah. Yeah.
Dangers of Misinformation and Local Controversies
00:16:31
grovehillchurch
Yeah. It's unfortunate. Many businesses have been closed from stuff like that.
00:16:35
Ridley
Yeah.
00:16:35
grovehillchurch
Many reputations have been ruined from stuff like that.
00:16:37
Ridley
Yeah.
00:16:38
grovehillchurch
Luckily you can, you can sue people for things like that and re re get your, you can get paid for it. And some people are successful at that, but you'll never get your reputation back even if you're successful.
00:16:49
Ridley
Yeah. And we recently had, I don't know if you had happened to catch it, but I think it was last week.
00:16:51
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:16:53
Ridley
We recently had something here on our local Facebook page, the iHeart Chapel Hill, where an event blew up instantly about a local business here.
00:16:58
grovehillchurch
Mm hmm.
00:17:02
Ridley
And, uh, I never did. because of the way it was flying around, never did discern what was the real truth there, but there were two absolutely different stories and the community was becoming divided over it. And I was like, well, what are we doing to each other here? We're dividing a community. We're ruining a business and nobody really knows what the truth is here.
00:17:22
grovehillchurch
Yeah, hard to know.
Recent Political Events Overview
00:17:24
grovehillchurch
Let's talk a little bit about like the events that have taken place recently. So we it's been a crazy summer, a crazy kickoff to like this like formal election cycle now.
00:17:30
Ridley
Yeah.
00:17:33
Ridley
Yeah, for sure.
00:17:35
grovehillchurch
I mean, we had the crazy debate a few weeks ago or a month ago, and that was shocking.
00:17:39
Ridley
Right. Right.
00:17:42
grovehillchurch
I mean, I think it was shocking to some people. A lot of us are already kind of aware that Biden wasn't in charge of his faculties that had been slipping over the last few years, very different from four years ago when he was debating and it was fine.
00:17:47
Ridley
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:55
grovehillchurch
but now it's, I don't know, people finally caught on. so that happens. And then we have the near close assassination of Donald Trump, uh, just a little over a week ago, we have Joe Biden stepping down as a candidate just two days ago.
00:18:03
Ridley
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:18:10
grovehillchurch
uh i mean even just what like two hours ago i think the secret service director quit resigned yeah so like you have these crazy headlines happening all over the place and all the little stories in between flooding everything and twitter is just going nuts with all this stuff and unfortunately has become one of my chief ways to try to figure out what's going on so i'm trying to like find all the little pieces of information because the news media is having a heck of a time piecing it together too so if you're like
00:18:16
Ridley
Resigned. Yeah. Right. right
00:18:39
Ridley
Absolutely so.
00:18:40
grovehillchurch
what like What are you to do? how How are you processing all this information?
Verifying Information in the Digital Age
00:18:44
Ridley
You know, the book of Proverbs says, be slow to speak and slow to become angry. And I think if the writer were here and alive today, he would say, be very slow. And now you make determinations based on what you see on the internet. I've had a very cautious approach. There are certain websites that I tend to watch, certain resources that I tend to pay attention to, but even with them, I'm slow to respond to what they put out there because they're not always right. i mean everybody The natural tendency of humans is we want to be the first with the information. right
00:19:16
Ridley
And so many of them, because they do not use discretion, will throw up whatever they hear that sounds juicy without checking their sources or without checking the reliability of what they've heard.
00:19:21
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:19:25
Ridley
And so even, I mean, to your point that the news of this past week. One minute, Joe is, I'm not pulling out unless God himself tells me to pull out. And oh, by the way, I'm pulling out and it's just, it's been that fast.
00:19:38
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:19:38
Ridley
Boom, boom, boom, boom. And, you know, with Kamala Harris, seemingly going to be the Democratic nominee, but i I'm not pacing any bets on it until it's firm and in the ink because, you know, they'll snatch the carpet out for her in a moment's notice.
00:19:40
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:19:54
Ridley
If they come up with a better plan.
00:19:54
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:19:56
Ridley
So i i I try to be very cautious. I'm like every other human. I get involved in certain conversations with people, but I limit who I talk to and and kind of qualify every statement by going, here's what I'm hearing. you know But it's it's a scary world out there. I mean, again, people's lives are being ruined on almost a daily basis. I feel as as much as I'd rapidly oppose most of Biden's stances in politics. I feel sorry for the poor guy because I feel like he's been, the expression in the South is he's been rolled road hard and put away wet, like a race horse who's now being retired because his dime has come.
00:20:34
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:20:37
Ridley
Uh, and I feel like they pushed him further than they should have.
00:20:40
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:20:41
Ridley
so it's, it's a sad thing to watch.
00:20:41
grovehillchurch
I mean, if it weren't, if it weren't what it was, it like, if that were a business, like someone could claim elder abuse, abuse probably pretty easily and win that in court.
00:20:48
Ridley
Oh yeah.
00:20:50
grovehillchurch
Cause that's essentially what's going on.
00:20:50
Ridley
I agree. I agree. You know, this poor girl who was thrust into the position of Secret Service Director, the story's not fully out on all that. The information is still coming together, but it's pretty obvious she was in over her head trying to lead that organization. She was not qualified. There's a big difference between guarding Doritos and guarding the President of the United States of America.
00:21:18
grovehillchurch
Is that a thing? I've seen the Dorito comments somewhere else.
00:21:21
Ridley
Yeah. So she came, she was like the, I don't remember the official title, but something like head of international security for Pepsi corporation who owns the Doritos product.
00:21:28
grovehillchurch
Okay.
00:21:30
Ridley
That's where it came from.
00:21:30
grovehillchurch
Is that where that came out? I'm like, that's the second time I've heard the Dorito thing.
00:21:31
Ridley
Yeah.
00:21:33
grovehillchurch
I'm like, Oh, wait, is that a thing?
00:21:34
Ridley
Yeah.
00:21:35
grovehillchurch
That's where it comes from.
00:21:35
Ridley
Uh, yesterday in the, uh, the hearings that she was in, one of the congressmen kind of lost an owner cause she would not answer any questions.
00:21:38
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:21:41
Ridley
And he basically said, this is a waste of our time.
00:21:41
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:21:43
Ridley
You should just go back to guarding Doritos.
00:21:46
grovehillchurch
So what are you doing with all the in-between information? Because obviously like there's a lot of things have happened, especially around the assassination. That's what a lot of people are trying to get at. She refused to answer lots of questions.
00:21:57
Ridley
Yeah.
00:21:58
grovehillchurch
and then for our, humans are really good at telling stories when we don't have all the pieces.
00:22:00
Ridley
Oh, yeah.
00:22:04
grovehillchurch
So some of those stories are right.
00:22:06
Ridley
Oh, yeah.
00:22:08
grovehillchurch
Some of them are wrong. How how are you going to discerning like trying to put together the pieces of the puzzle? You just got to wait until they're done. Are you entertaining any of the stories of going on around here?
00:22:17
Ridley
Well. there There are some stories that seem to be based more in fact that are easier to prove and document. For instance, some of the explanations that the Secret Service has offered as to why they didn't respond to the shooter that was on that building are very easily documentable that they're false. Like the fact that the roof was too steep for anybody to climb on. There was a 70-year-old congressman on there yesterday walking around. That's obviously false.
00:22:48
Ridley
Or you know that we had no no clue that there was a threat nearby.
00:22:48
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:22:52
Ridley
but multiple witnesses have come forward saying, and we knew an hour ahead of time and tried to warn you.
00:22:55
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:22:57
Ridley
Those things are pretty easy to shoot down and go, you know what? You're just you're just lying to us. So in in those cases, I kind of tried to use the same approach that you would in a court of law. If there are two or more witnesses who confirmed this information, then I'm going to um'm gonna give it a little bit more credibility. If this one random TikToker who's sharing this information, then I'm going to wait and hold on until I hear more information. the The problem is, the real challenge, at least for me, is because of the way the internet works, Ridley may get some information that he thinks is reliable and share it. And then Dan may go, man, that sounds really cool. And he may share it and not even say that it came from Ridley. So now it looks like two different people have documented the information. When it's really, if you trace it back, if you could trace it back, it would all go back to one source who may very well have made it up based on a hunch.
00:23:47
Ridley
so i I am, again, very cautious, I think, because of my position in our community as a pastor. People look to their pastor sometimes for information and direction on how to feel about things. So I want to be very, very cautious about jumping on any bandwagon of any sort. And, you know, as the Bible encourages us to pursue truth and truth alone, because that's the only thing that will make us free.
00:24:15
grovehillchurch
which leads me to my next question, which I might be kicking a beehive here so I won't find out what happens.
Would Jesus Have a Political Alignment?
00:24:21
Ridley
Get away.
00:24:22
grovehillchurch
But do you feel like if if Jesus were walking around today that Jesus would be Republican?
00:24:27
Ridley
Ooh, no. No, I think think Jesus would remain above the fray. So rather rather than calling him Republican or Democrat or even putting the label independent on him, I think jesus would be Jesus would be listening to what his father tells him. And you know that's that let that be the charge for every one of us who are listening to this, who call ourselves Christ followers. I've been talking with several people recently on the internet about where we are as a nation. And it's sad to me that we have our we find ourselves voting for the the the lesser of the evils. and There's nobody that we truly really line up with. I'm sorry, this is probably gonna offend some people. Donald Trump is not the Christian hope for America.
00:25:20
Ridley
Does he better align with my thinking based on what I read in the Bible? Yes. But if Jesus were here, I don't know that Jesus would feel comfortable calling himself a magma father
Current Republican Stances
00:25:32
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:25:32
Ridley
because I mean, even even the
00:25:34
Ridley
platform that the Republicans put together this year. They have backed off on their anti-abortion stance. They've been a little bit more free in some of their thinking regarding some other really really central issues that are major points, sticking points for me.
Disillusionment with Candidates and Parties
00:25:52
Ridley
So i I don't even call myself a Republican. Who will I vote for in this election? I think I've pretty much decided. but If there were a better option, I would surely jump at it because I'm not very entirely comfortable with anybody who is running for the president of the United States.
00:26:10
grovehillchurch
You know, that's kind of how I've been last couple of years, right? Um, at least that's how I felt in going to the the voting booth last few times. You're like, well, I'm just picking the one that aligns more with where I'm going.
00:26:23
Ridley
Yep.
The Necessity of Voting
00:26:24
Ridley
Well, and here, here's a place to put in a word of caution.
00:26:27
Ridley
I don't think the right option is not to vote at all.
00:26:30
grovehillchurch
yeah.
00:26:31
Ridley
Because to me, if you don't vote, then you make the vote of someone who is completely anti-Christian that much louder. It carries more power because you refuse to express your right as a Christian to vote for, you know, the Green Party or the Independent Party or the Libertarian Party, whoever you want to vote for. I would say that the most important thing we can do is get into our closet, pray and ask God to direct our vote and then go do it.
00:26:57
grovehillchurch
Yep.
Trump's Personality vs. Platform
00:26:58
grovehillchurch
How do you feel about like the fact that Donald Trump has held up in such a high esteem by many? I mean, it's probably the first time I've ever seen a Republican, like a candidate, like lose and still carry fervor four years later.
00:27:05
Ridley
Scares me.
00:27:12
Ridley
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:13
grovehillchurch
Like nothing, I've never seen that before. Maybe, maybe it's happened before me, but.
00:27:18
Ridley
Yeah, I think you're right. It scares me a lot because I know God can change the heart of any man, including Donald Trump. But the narcissism that Donald Trump displays is not Christian. the bravado he uses in speaking to other people, I don't think is something Jesus would say honors him. Again, does he does he express some views that I agree with? Absolutely. I can't decide if that's because he speaks out of the conviction of his heart or he can speak he speaks out of the convenience of what's gonna get in boats sometimes.
00:27:56
Ridley
Yeah. It scares me to think about those things. It really does.
Balancing Patriotism and Faith
00:28:02
Ridley
I'm going to be honest, with I can't remember your question because when you said it, my mind began to think just how this is, this is a bothersome thing for me.
00:28:11
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:28:11
Ridley
I think because I love my country as much as I do and I love the United States, but I love God more and I want to honor him and it's It's hard to see a way forward that really truly purely honors God the way he deserves with what we've been given to choose from.
Critique of Trump's Supporters
00:28:30
grovehillchurch
into backtrack and bring some clarity for those listening who are who are like ardent Trump supporters. I want to tell you, like like I'm not anti-Trump.
00:28:41
Ridley
No.
00:28:41
grovehillchurch
I voted for Trump twice now, and I probably will in this election.
00:28:43
Ridley
Yeah.
00:28:45
grovehillchurch
I've had many friends about third party and past elections because they couldn't stand them and just felt convicted to not. And I'm like, oh, he's fine.
00:28:53
Ridley
me
00:28:53
grovehillchurch
Uh, if you vote, if you vote left, I'm like, I don't, I don't understand it.
00:28:58
Ridley
yeah
00:28:58
grovehillchurch
I'm just going to go and say it. I'm just like, look, if you vote third party, like, okay, I get it. But like voting the other way, I just, like you've said it from the pulpit with abortion many times. Like if you're, if you're pro choice, I don't, I don't know how that, uh,
00:29:11
Ridley
I don't know how that reconciles with the Christian faith at
00:29:13
grovehillchurch
Is your
Christianity Above Politics
00:29:14
Ridley
all.
00:29:14
grovehillchurch
faith. Yeah. I kind of feel like that with politics, but at the same time, there is a level of devotion for Trump that I've seen that just seems almost like Republican first Christianity second.
00:29:27
Ridley
Yep.
00:29:27
grovehillchurch
When it should be, you know, Christianity first family, second church, third, and maybe your politics like down here on the bottom.
00:29:31
Ridley
Yep.
00:29:35
grovehillchurch
So then maybe six or seven, and you know what I'm saying?
00:29:35
Ridley
Right.
00:29:37
Ridley
Right. know I think sometimes we can confuse our passion for our families and our faith with a passion for a guy we think might somehow protect that for us.
00:29:39
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:29:49
Ridley
and And for me, that's probably the best positive I can say about Trump is that he at least helps manage to give us a little bit of a defense for the liberties we've been given.
00:29:59
grovehillchurch
Yep.
00:30:00
grovehillchurch
True.
Orwellian Parallels in Modern Politics
00:30:02
Ridley
If you've never read George Orwell's book, 1984, now's a great time to go pick it up and read it, because it is such an example of what I see coming really from both political parties, but especially from the progressives in that they call black, white, and then call you an idiot when you question them.
00:30:20
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:30:20
Ridley
And it's it's being done. all And then literally, will point at the, their opponent, whether it's the independent or the Republican or somebody else and say, you're doing such and such. And it's the very things they are doing themselves. and, and so there's this, I can't decide if it's intentional blindness or if it's the devil blinding them to these things or whatever, but they are so blatantly antilogical. I don't
00:30:46
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
Trump: Mixed Views
00:30:46
Ridley
even know if that's the right word, but, yeah, so it, it, uh, that part scares me, but the,
00:30:53
Ridley
the It's not the only option to immediately run and embrace Trump wholeheartedly without reservation.
00:31:03
Ridley
Was there a divine intervention that protected him that day on that stage from that bullet? I would say yes, because God has everything in his hands. Everything is in his hands.
Challenging Established Systems
00:31:13
Ridley
Does that mean that there somehow is some divine blessing on Trump and that he's the second coming of the hope of the Christian church? No. No. I still have reservations about whether or not he really truly is a follower of Christ. He sounded very much more like a deist to me than he used to. But whether or not he really truly understands his sinful nature and that he is broken before Christ like everybody else, don't know about that.
00:31:41
grovehillchurch
With everything that has been going on, there has been some hope and in it. And it does seem like there's like a waking up of some kind.
00:31:48
Ridley
yeah
00:31:48
grovehillchurch
I don't know what it was after 2020. It seems like we just got into a weird thing where everybody was starting to believe that up was down and down was up. And you're just kind of like, what is going on?
00:31:55
Ridley
me
00:31:57
grovehillchurch
These people are crazy. but I don't know what it was with the assassination kind of galvanized some of the people that were, you know, pro Trump to kind of like step out because anybody who is pro Trump was really afraid to say it, especially if you were in a place like Minneapolis or California or whatever.
00:32:12
Ridley
Right, right
00:32:13
grovehillchurch
I mean, out here in chapel Hill, I mean, people are just putting it on the back of their trucks and waving big golf flags and have been for years.
00:32:14
Ridley
right.
00:32:19
grovehillchurch
So less, less fear here, but there's a lot of fear out there.
00:32:20
Ridley
Yeah.
00:32:24
grovehillchurch
So I feel like that's kind of shaken up enough where people are actually asking tough questions right now across the board. Even in in a non-political sphere, they're just for like able to actually start saying, hey, like this medical system, what the heck are we doing? you know like All these kinds of things. like People aren't afraid as much to like push against the system that's been saying the craziest stuff over the last three years.
00:32:44
Ridley
Yeah, right.
00:32:46
grovehillchurch
and continual gaslighting that's been happening. Like, oh yeah, biology like biology has always said that men can be women and women can men. Like, what are you guys talking about? You're like, what?
00:32:56
Ridley
Yeah, those those kinds of statements, I think, is where people started going, wait a minute, I don't have a master's or a doctorate degree, but I'm smart enough to know that a boy is a boy and a girl is a girl, and that's the way it's always been. You know, right.
00:33:07
grovehillchurch
Well, even the people with the master's and doctorate's degrees were afraid to say anything for, you know, lose they'd lose
Public Skepticism Toward Government Narratives
00:33:13
grovehillchurch
their job. So now I feel like those people are actually feeling some safety, even with Elon buying Twitter, as much as I don't want to talk about Elon, but like that move has made it possible for people not to be d platform so fast, because that became a huge fear after 2020 is you could be d platformed like, like that.
00:33:16
Ridley
yeah
00:33:24
Ridley
Yes. Yes. All right.
00:33:30
grovehillchurch
And now you can't.
00:33:32
Ridley
Yeah, the same thing is true with climate change. The whole push for, you know, climate change is changing the world and those kinds of things. As recently as yesterday, a huge number of scientists have signed onto a document saying there is no proof whatsoever, even in the data of the weather organizations, that climate change has made weather any different than it was 20, 30, 40 years ago. So it's it's the because of the boldness of the the progressive movement in a direction that is illogical.
00:34:05
Ridley
It's because of that boldness that I think people are waking up and going, wait a minute, I'm not dumb enough to buy that. and i And I think the government has been exposed in recent years, COVID being a perfect example that the government's willing to tell us what they want to tell us.
00:34:11
grovehillchurch
Yeah.
00:34:20
Ridley
And now people are waking up and going, well, then we can't absolutely trust our government to tell us the truth all the time.
00:34:24
grovehillchurch
Yep.
Christianity's Role in All Life Aspects
00:34:26
grovehillchurch
So there's some good things happening. There are some scary things happening. It's a mixed bag out there, but
00:34:31
Ridley
Absolutely.
00:34:33
grovehillchurch
It's to kind of sum up some of the things we talked about It is good for us to be vocal to push back on the culture to shape the culture To be essentially be the light on a hill And that includes the light coming into all facets of life Certainly, you know our religious life and our Christian life but also like our our faith informs all the different areas of our life from family to relationships to education to children to music and everything else.
00:35:05
grovehillchurch
Faith informs all these things and you can't keep them separate.
00:35:08
Ridley
yeah Right. Right. it's By nature, Christianity was meant to permeate every area of our life. And we cannot segment segment our life into, here's my family over here, and here's my hobbies here, and here's my political beliefs over here, and I'll let Christianity filter its way over here, but I've got to keep this isolated. You just can't do that as a believer.
Audience Feedback and Closing
00:35:31
grovehillchurch
So if you've enjoyed this episode, give us a shout, shoot us a message, probably post this one to Facebook specifically, and try to get some feedback.
00:35:35
Ridley
Mm-hmm. Please.
00:35:40
grovehillchurch
Because what I'm hoping to do is, while this is this one's kind of a general summary and approach to politics from a Christian worldview, I'd love to be jumping on with you, Ridley, and talking more about some of the things that were just local local things happening or statewide things happening, and sometimes some national things happening.
00:35:56
Ridley
Yeah.
00:36:00
grovehillchurch
as they're trending through through social media specifically, but generally that the things that are on the minds of our congregation and getting your perspective on it. and We've certainly done it before in some episodes, but I'm thinking about bringing it back to add, I don't know, to help, to give some guidance and provide some some of your thinking and the thinking of Grove Hill staff to help people navigate these times because they are getting increasingly complex and confusing.
00:36:21
Ridley
Yeah.
00:36:26
Ridley
Agreed. Agreed.
00:36:29
grovehillchurch
So give us some feedback.
00:36:29
Ridley
Enjoyed it, man.