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Mining the Future: People, Leadership, and Critical Minerals
11 Plays2 months ago
In this episode of The Voice of Growth, Manny Teran sits down with Pat Risner, President of the Hermosa Project at South32, to explore what next-generation mining truly looks like.
This conversation goes far beyond extraction. Pat shares how Hermosa—located in Santa Cruz County, Arizona—represents a once-in-a-generation opportunity to rethink how industries create shared value across national security, sustainability, workforce development, and long-term community prosperity.
Key themes include:
- Why the U.S. must onshore critical minerals like zinc and battery-grade manganese
- How automation, AI, and remote operations can increase safety and inclusion
- Designing mines with the end in mind—preparing communities to thrive long after resources are depleted
- Leadership lessons from 30+ years across global operations, health & safety, and environmental stewardship
- Why, at the end of the day, it’s still all about people
This is a masterclass in trend-aligned leadership, systems thinking, and building institutions that outlast individuals.
Recommended
Transcript
Introducing a Major Zinc Project
00:00:04
Speaker
The voice of growth, mastering the mind and market.
00:00:10
Speaker
We have one of the largest undeveloped zinc deposits in the world. We can do it better here. we can do it more sustainably.
Engagement and Stakeholder Value Creation
00:00:19
Speaker
We do lot of listening, a lot of early engagement with stakeholders.
00:00:25
Speaker
Did we do everything we could do to create that shared value? This is the largest private investment in the history of Southern Arizona.
00:00:36
Speaker
We did all the right things to generate shared value, transform a community, lift it up and prepare it to thrive after these finite natural resources are are exhausted.
Technological Advancements in Mining
00:00:51
Speaker
That at the end of the day, it's still all about people. From coal to critical minerals, your background has spread the past 30 years in the mining industry from being on the the health and occupational safety side to now taking the helm of what I would say and many would say is the most advanced, most technologically sound mine in this beautiful community we have of Tucson.
Innovative Opportunities in Tucson Mining
00:01:20
Speaker
Give us an idea of when you heard that news of this potential mine that would be opening up in Tucson, well, south of Tucson, what went through your mind? Yeah, well, it's a chance of a lifetime. I mean, most of the people, certainly the mentors I grew up around in the mining industry, many of them never get a chance to do what we're doing. We've struggled to develop new mining operations in the US s in the last 20 or 30 years. It hasn't grown a lot in my career. And so um to be able to come in and take everything you've learned over a 30 year career, whether it's around health and safety or environmental performance or, you know, productivity, different ways of doing things, you know, most of your roles you're brought in to create change.
00:02:07
Speaker
um to affect change, positive change. um And so you learn a lot, but you almost never get the chance to go to a place where you can try to get it right from the start. And that was the part that probably appealed the most is the ability to take, you know, 30 years of learnings and lessons as well as those of our team and try to create something new, something very different, present something to stakeholders that was very different, that kind of challenges those paradigms and things that are in people's minds about what mining is. And that's why we like to call it next generation mining. We believe we're trying to create something really different. And it was that's just a unique opportunity almost never get. Yeah, for sure.
Strategic Location in Patagonia Mountains
00:02:47
Speaker
For our audience, just so we have some context, tell us a little bit about what the mine is, what you're mining for and why it's so important. Yeah, so about 60 miles southeast of here, so about seven miles south of Patagonia, um down along the border, we have the Patagonia Mountains, an area that's been blessed with ah mineral resources and natural resources for a long time, but there hasn't really been any mining in that area for quite some time.
00:03:13
Speaker
ah South 32, the company I work for, has been transforming its portfolio to start producing metals that are more important for a low carbon future. So as we decarbonize in society, the energy transition, looking for projects and things to produce things, more zinc, silver, copper, things that are needed for ah for that that transition to lower carbon
National Security and Economic Impact
00:03:39
Speaker
future. So as part of that, we identified this project in the Patagonia Mountains that was really in the early stages. Back in 2018, the company acquired the project. It was still in exploration phase. And the reason, I guess it's really important for the country, is there's now five critical minerals that we will produce from this operation. two primary critical minerals, and these are by critical minerals. The US federal government has a list of 40 to 50 odd minerals where we're highly reliant on foreign supply, ah but they have national security or national economic implications. In this case, we have one of the largest undeveloped zinc deposits in the world, as well as a large battery grade manganese deposit that could produce enough manganese to meet all the domestic demand for lithium ion batteries.
00:04:29
Speaker
ah All of the production of battery grade manganese, virtually all of it in the world comes from China. We only produce about 6% of the world's zinc. Most of it comes from one mine in Alaska that has about five years to go.
00:04:43
Speaker
So they're minerals where we're increasing reliant on foreign supply at a time where we expect scarcity as well. Within 10 years, we think there'll be a 4 million ton shortfall in global zinc supply.
00:04:55
Speaker
um To close that gap, you'd have to develop three projects this size every year for the next 10 years. And we haven't discovered zinc deposits of this scale in the last 10 to 15 years. So scarce, increasing reliance on foreign supply. So what this is about largely is onshore and critical mineral supply chains um to reduce that national security and economic risk, but also to do it better. We can do it better here. We can do it more sustainably.
Economic Growth and Community Benefits
00:05:21
Speaker
um not just our regulatory framework, but the way in which we can go about next generation mining. So um we want to do it in a way that demonstrates a new way to do it, but also that demonstrates a new way for our host community to thrive and realize shared value from what we're doing um and grow the economy of Santa Cruz County, which is one of the um one of the more impoverished parts of the state, high unemployment, the per capita income about 40% below the Arizona state average. um So there's a real opportunity in the course of onshoring these critical mineral supply chains, and addressing a national security risk to also lift up a community that hasn't had economic development opportunities recently.
Global Trends and Industry Alignment
00:06:01
Speaker
I followed trends very closely, big global trends. And the first time I heard you speak was at an event at the Tucson Convention Center. And you were laying out the the major points of this mine.
00:06:16
Speaker
and it was just checking all the boxes with all these major trends. The whole yeah ESG aspect is huge, and which includes the environmental impact, everything else behind that. The community aspect, the national security and critical minerals aspect, ai autonomous.
00:06:36
Speaker
I mean, you're hitting a lot of different points here. Has there been much pushback that you've seen so far? Yeah, I think with ah with any kind of mining or natural resource development like this, there's there's always going to be some.
00:06:49
Speaker
um It's really, i think, our obligation and our job to present something different to the community and stakeholders, but also to listen.
Collaborative Next-Gen Mining
00:06:58
Speaker
So we do a lot of community engagement, tribal engagement, and started really from day one, before the project was even being designed. um and so i think not only is the project next generation from a technology and environmental footprint standpoint but also we've tried to be next generation in how we work with stakeholders and how we listen and address concerns ah because there have been i mean if you think about the mining industry of the past some of these concerns are absolutely justified yeah you know some of what's gone on in the mining industry's past is
00:07:32
Speaker
no longer acceptable and we have better ways of doing it. And so we did a lot of listening, a lot of early engagement with stakeholders. ah Part of it was um getting input and understanding the cultural landscape, the biological landscape and the community concerns and interests before we're designing the mine because When you get into the formal part of these processes of permitting a mine and you start doing public meetings, it's too late because you've already designed the mine. It's very hard to make changes at that point.
00:08:03
Speaker
So I think the lessons from the past are engage early and listen and get input and really understand your setting in every way. Stakeholder, biological, cultural. and work to design a mine that avoids impacts, if at all possible, where that's not possible, work with the community to mitigate impacts um and understand what's really important to them. So when we talk about shared value, that has to be driven by what's what the community views as shared value to them and how if they if they don't believe their shared value, why would they want us there? And so doing a better job at listening and creating a project that that better fits the concerns and interest of stakeholders has been another part of it. um At the end of the day, there's always going to be some that don't want change and don't want this new activity. But we we never stop working at it. We talk about a social license to operate, which is... not the piece of paper you get from the state of Arizona or the federal regulators. It's not a piece of paper at all. um
00:09:05
Speaker
But it's kind of a perpetual effort that we make to gain acceptance from stakeholders and keep working to produce a mining operation that the community can be proud of and realize value from.
Community Impact and Job Creation
00:09:18
Speaker
I grew up in I was born in Tucson. I grew up in Douglas, which is, of course, very closely tied to Bisbee. That whole region was very affected by the mining industry, both in the positive domain that, you know, that's how the city grew. At one time, Douglas was bigger than Tucson, a lot of economic activity. And of course you go to the Bisbee and, you know, kind of a cool little funky place, but you've got that giant open pit. And so you have all these things sort of playing against that. And so when I heard about this mine opening up before I even heard you speak, I was interested to understand,
00:09:54
Speaker
what was happening. Tell us about the economic impact on what this will do, not necessarily just for your stakeholders, but also for the community at large.
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah. So These operations are are large job generators always, but I think what we've tried to be more thoughtful about in that shared value equation is ensuring that those most proximate to our operation are the primary beneficiaries, be it from jobs and career opportunities to taxes to social investment.
00:10:31
Speaker
So a few things. We will create to 900 jobs in an area that has near double digit employment, each of those jobs generates income equal to about double the household income in the county. The operation will be 20% of the total payroll of the county once we're up and running. So employment tends to be your really biggest uplift for the community. And so what we're trying to do rather than import an experienced mining workforce from some other part of the country, would still create jobs and it would still create economic activity but we were on the people that live there today to benefit from those opportunities so we've committed by the time we're at full production 80 of our workforce at least 80 will be existing residents of santa cruz county so not imported workers so we're about to embark on this really significant workforce development workforce training exercise really unlike any probably in the history of southern Arizona, to home grow a workforce in Santa Cruz County.
00:11:31
Speaker
um There's never been a skilled trades training program in the county. So if you want to be an electrician or a mechanical technician or any of that, you've got to come to Tucson, Pima or something like that. And so um we're working with the provisional college down in Nogales and Pima Community College to deliver those programs in Nogales so we can train local people. And the first program kicked off in August, um which is the first skilled trades training program in the history of the county. um The other thing is in the early days of this project, um it'll double the property tax revenue in the county. 60% of that goes to schools.
00:12:06
Speaker
um And then we're also working with the town of Patagonia, the city of Nogales in Santa Cruz County on what we're calling a Community Protection and Benefits Agreement. And this is where if you think about Bisbee and places like that, um one of the lessons from the past is you have to think about how this becomes a sustainable economy post mining.
Sustainable Post-Mining Economy
00:12:27
Speaker
ah This might run for 100 years, it might run for 70 years, it might run for 60 years. They tend to be long life assets, but it is a finite resource. And so what the industry and communities haven't done well is make sound investments while The benefits are flowing from a mining operation to ensure there's a sustainable economy to transition into. So there'll be an element of this agreement where we will ah provide some social investment for the long term sort of post mine vision of the community. So set aside some funds and and and invest wisely over however long the mine is there. to create a sustainable economy, a workforce development ecosystem, everything to sustain the community so that you transition into, you know, you attract additional business and industry and transition and into a really strong economy once these resources have run their course. There'll also be supplemental environmental protections, above and beyond what our permits require, guided by the concerns that the community has. So those are a few things we're doing. I think um the Bisbee's of the world, the lesson is think about the end at the start and start investing now for that sustainable economy and take advantage of this historic investment to create something sustainable and maximize employment for those that that live in and around the operation.
00:13:46
Speaker
that sounds like you've been able to operate, I'm not gonna say with a lot of constraints, but the idea of Greenfield, and that's that's really relevant when you look at so many things right now in the economy that are constrained.
00:14:00
Speaker
Now let's kind of rewind the clock a little bit. Give us an example of maybe pre-Hermosa, a challenge that you faced at a particular site that helped shape your your new vision of how Hermosa should operate? Is there something you can draw from that's an interesting um conversation here?
Environmental Conservation Techniques
00:14:22
Speaker
Yeah. um You know, one may be technical and one kind of more social related. um I was involved in a previous role in... we The mining industry has kind of a bit of a legacy in how we manage tailings, which is the...
00:14:38
Speaker
the basically the rock that gets separated from the metal when we process the ore to create the product you have to manage that in some way typically in a lot of the open pit mines we create these big tailings dams where we manage that that waste um it's very water intensive creates large land disturbance um there's been instances in south america where those have failed and created environmental damage um And I was involved at one point in investigating one of those incidents, a really bad one where there was significant environmental impact, um loss of life and and and those sorts of things. And so one of the things as we came into Hermosa, there's two things we wanted to manage tailings differently.
00:15:20
Speaker
and we wanted to be a low water use intensity mine. We're in the Sonoran Desert. yeah Water's a precious resource everywhere, but particularly here. And so um as part of that investigation, we talked about a new approach and some new technology that could eliminate what actually happened in that incidence that we we call dry stack tailings. And it's really... where we actually take the water out of the tailings before they're placed and we recycle and reuse that water um and we compact the tailings. And then the other thing we're doing is half of the tailings we produce will go back underground and we will backfill the areas where we pull the the mineral resource out. So we pull zinc out and we put tailings back in. And so the advantages of all of this, which is a very different way of doing things, um
00:16:07
Speaker
is ah really threefold. um You get a mine that will run for 70 years and will only disturb about 750 acres of land. Your typical open pit mine in Arizona is 10 to 40,000 acres. wow So it's ah it's a it's a fraction of what you typically see in disturbance.
00:16:26
Speaker
um We'll use 90% less water than most mining operations because we're able to recover and reuse a lot of the process water that typically would you know, would be lost in one of these tailings facilities.
00:16:39
Speaker
And then lastly, um what's caused some of these tailings management issues in the past can't happen at Hermosa because we've designed a dry facility. From an engineering standpoint, those kinds of stability issues can't occur with this design that we're using. So ah That was an experience I saw in my career where we're actually implementing the best practice that was kind of identified to address those issues, but also gives us low water use intensity and a very small disturbance footprint, which the Patagonia Mountains are a really important biodiversity center in Southern Arizona. And so,
00:17:14
Speaker
that is equally important. So it it kind of ticks a few different boxes, but I remember when we were doing that investigation, this was a best practice we talked about that was you know in an area where the mining industry needed to head to do things differently and just really proud to be a part of a team that's actually doing it now and showing it can reduce water use and it can reduce impact on biodiversity and create a very safe, stable operation.
00:17:41
Speaker
That's ah remarkable. I think people always say hindsight's 20-20, right? But you can also apply that forward, but it takes a tremendous amount of resources, grit, and I've heard that those tailings, of course, you see them, you drop down to Nogales from here, you see them on the on the west side of the road there.
00:18:00
Speaker
um And certainly technology has taken a a center stage here. Give us an example of a technology that you might have seen 20 years ago that that had some life that is now being brought to the fray beyond the the ones you just explained.
Remote Operations and Local Employment
00:18:17
Speaker
Yeah. um So the industry has dabbled for quite a while in remote operations. Maybe doesn't go back 20 years, but the first remote operating centers were built at least 10 or 15 years ago, maybe 15 years ago.
00:18:33
Speaker
And so as we, again, start with a blank sheet of paper, you can kind of, we're not retrofitting technology to existing operation. We're thinking about what should this look like from the start to reflect where we're at today in terms of convergence of all of these different technologies. And so as we started to think about that and what that looked like, and the the reasons you would think about remote operations and automation at least where the industry is thinking we would go with it once the technology advanced and was perfected is a few things is there's health and safety benefits because you take people off of operating equipment in an underground mine environment.
00:19:14
Speaker
and you put them in just an office environment um where they're actually monitoring equipment or remotely operating equipment. And so this is technology just like the military can fly a drone over the Middle East from Fort Huachuca. We can operate the production processes of this mine from anywhere in the world. you could put this facility anywhere. um And so as we got to thinking about it, this was an area where we to push the boundaries a bit more. And so all of our primary production process and in the remote operating centers in the past in mining have kind of been about remotely monitoring equipment, but for the most part, it wasn't autonomous or remotely operated. And so over the last 10 or 15 years, we've been getting closer to that where you could actually
00:19:58
Speaker
operate these mines from anywhere. And so we built a few of these in the industry in big cities, particularly in places in Australia. um We made a very different decision here. So two things, we wanted to push the boundary so all of our production primary production processes will either be fully autonomous or tele-remote operated. So you won't have people on the equipment underground.
00:20:21
Speaker
We also decided the the traditional decision would have probably been to put this remote operating center in Tucson. Because you tend you can put it anywhere. You tend to put it in big cities because you can attract labor easier.
00:20:31
Speaker
But if we'd done that, we wouldn't have a local workforce because more than 200 of our roles will work in this office building not underground so um we decided to put it in nogalus so it'll be a state-of-the-art world-class facility um in nogalus we call it centro um and like i said more than 200 of our people will work there so we'll have people working there that will be you know just monitoring equipment that's running autonomously underground big command center with screens and things. We'll have stations in that facility where people will actually have the controls and a screen and be sitting in an office in Nogales running a piece of equipment that's 20 miles away, 3,000 or 4,000 feet underground.
00:21:13
Speaker
And so health and safety benefits. But the workforce enabler was a really important part. Put it in Nogales. You can imagine if you need to sit on a piece of equipment and operate it underground, that takes a lot of mining experience. Well, we don't have a lot of mining experience in Santa Cruz County. in Nogales.
00:21:30
Speaker
ah But we can train people that you know haven't done mining before to do jobs like that in 18 months. And so what's not intuitive is it's it's safer, it's healthier, there's productivity advantages, but it enables local workforce for us as well because we can train local people to do that.
00:21:48
Speaker
And you think about Would people drive 30 miles away to go work underground or would they go work at this office building in their community next to their schools, near their family support networks, near childcare? Think about a single parent.
00:22:03
Speaker
Some of them might not come work for us, but if they can go to Centro, close to family and childcare, maybe they would. And so we think we'll have, that's a key enabler for local workforce, but also a more diverse workforce. We wanna bring in more people that haven't been in mining before. um And for our workforce ultimately to reflect our demographic of our background community. So we think that'll also be great for culture. It'll be a very different culture to what you've seen in the mining industry because it'll be a more diverse workforce that looks like Santa Cruz County.
00:22:35
Speaker
I see a little twinkle in your eye when you when you talked about that. That seems to be pretty important to you.
Personal Motivations and Community Development
00:22:40
Speaker
Yeah, why i work has changed a lot over my career. yeah that's actually my next question. I want to understand. what are your What is your North Star? Well, you know, it's probably just like anybody. When I started in the career, I had this career path in mind. I want to do this, then that, then this, then that, and then I'll be CEO or whatever. um But it never happens like that. And, you know, i had some experiences probably 10 years ago in my career where I learned a lot more about what this industry can do for people.
00:23:09
Speaker
And by people, I mean the people that work for us, our host communities, our stakeholders, when done well. And so, um like, this is why the other reason this project appealed to me, can do it in a different way and probably maximize more what it does for people.
00:23:27
Speaker
um One of the reasons I left my previous company to come do this is um I met with the CEO of South 32 and he talked to me about the the purpose they had developed for South 32. And it talks about developing natural resources improving to improve people's lives now and for generations to come.
00:23:46
Speaker
And ah that that had kind of become my personal why. I'd worked in some operations up on the Navajo Nation in New Mexico where I had seen multiple generations of families' lives transformed because of a mining job and the ability to educate their children in ways that they could not have before. We know the generational impacts education delivers for families. And I had seen it. We had three generations in the workforce at one time in some of those operations.
00:24:14
Speaker
On the Navajo Reservation, which is actually, you know, a very economically depressed area. And so you saw what education and access to employment did for communities there. And um and so that that had become a big part of my personal why at this point in my career, um because I sort of draw a lot more meaning from that. And and we have a huge opportunity to deliver on that here.
00:24:40
Speaker
in a community that just hasn't had the opportunities that Tucson and Phoenix and the rest of the state have had. This is the largest private investment in the history of Southern Arizona and it's happening in Santa Cruz County. That's remarkable. So ah that's a big motivation to me seeing ah we already are hiring a lot of local people. We have people in our workforce that grew up in Nogales, no jobs, no opportunity. So they went to Phoenix or Tucson and the job at Hermosa has brought them home.
00:25:08
Speaker
um The culture there, they want to be around family. And so the opportunity to bring people back to their family. um Some of those people have had two, three promotions in the last six or seven years because they're learning how to do our business. And that's at this point in my career, that's very fulfilling to see. And thinking about six or seven or 800 more people like that, more families getting that opportunity is a big motivator.
00:25:32
Speaker
Absolutely. I think that, um, I can see that shift, at least in myself as well. When you you know you graduate college, you have this sort of vision of what you want, and then the things change or new opportunities are presented to them.
Historical Mining Impacts and Economic Challenges
00:25:46
Speaker
to your decision-making, and then you find yourself like, wow, I'm on this crossroads of being able to actually flex your muscle in a community and grow it. I mean, Douglas, i would to talk about Douglas again, very depressed.
00:26:01
Speaker
They had a smelter and Bisbee was the the mining operations that they'd take the the ore down to douglas it smelt it and all that and then did it for 100 years and i see what now not having that in douglas what it's done to the community and it's it's terrible you know i love douglas i remember when i was um my kids and i were there about 10 years ago we were visiting my mom and we stopped at this little ah park to get some hot dogs and it was great i remember my kids were five and seven two boys and my older one looked at me and said dad can we move to to douglas
00:26:35
Speaker
And I just, I said, sorry, bud, you know, there's not much here. ah There's no way for me to to do what I need to do here in this community. So that's remarkable. So you've got a lot of frequent flyer miles.
00:26:47
Speaker
You've got a lot of stamps in your passport.
Global Experiences and Personal Growth
00:26:50
Speaker
Give us a sense of how you've dealt with being brought into these communities over the past 30 years. how What sort of toll or opportunity has taken on you and your family to uproot every five, 10 years and go to a new location?
00:27:06
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. We, I kind of look at it as an opportunity. I'm an engineer, um but I only did engineering for a few years, so I'm not really an engineer anymore. um You know, I found, I enjoyed the people part of the business. I got out in the field and led teams early in my career and I love that part. And so, you know, that, that's part of what started to shift what I like to do and why I did it. And so,
00:27:31
Speaker
moving into different cultural contexts and different communities and learning and understanding and meeting people and building relationships is a it' a big part of it. And so I think, um you know, my oldest daughter was born in Queensland in Australia.
00:27:49
Speaker
um And she has that experience. my I have twin boys that are seniors in high school. They did second through sixth grade in Melbourne in Australia. And you know we went all over the world when we were in that area. So mining is... I think for young people experiencing other cultures and not just staying in their comfort zone where they grew up and where people are like them is, I think that, I think it's good to to push the boundaries and get them to experience some discomfort and be around different kinds of people and learn how to adapt and learn some resilience. And so, I found it to be good for me professionally to learn to do that and really good for my children, a good experience for my children to learn um how to do that and learn about the world and how the world works and adapting to all different kinds of people with different backgrounds. And so um that's kind of how we viewed it is it is a little bit difficult, but um I would say everywhere I've ever been and we've ever been, there's been some great things I've taken away from it professionally.
00:28:56
Speaker
um It really is you know a lot of listening and seeking to understand and um you know learning what makes people tick. and yeah know There's special things about everywhere you go and and so we have great memories from all those places. But I think more than anything, it's been a good thing for family to experience that. and you know It's just been a blessing of having a career in an industry like that where we can meet, learn from, and you know work with all different kinds of people.
00:29:26
Speaker
Yeah, I think you said a word there that's one of my favorite words, discomfort. Because as a society, as where we are today in 2025, we tend to really value comfort above almost anything else.
Growth Through Discomfort and Mental Health
00:29:42
Speaker
Nothing wrong with the comfort, I'm not dogging it, but I think that from a career growth perspective, you need to be able to get out of your comfort zone. and And that's just so important. So would you agree with that? And have you ever had a a mentor or a mentee that that was a pivotal part of your career path?
00:30:05
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really important. I also think it's becoming it's becoming a bit more difficult, but I think I had a lot of great mentors. i That's probably the greatest thing about the industry for me is the people I worked with in the first half of my career um were pivotal and instrumental in teaching me, and they were so patient, and they cared about development of people.
00:30:29
Speaker
um So that's important to me as well. But in in one of those mentors and and relationships, um you know, the discussion was very much when you get into a job that you really like and you kind of get in flow where you're like day to day, it's, you know, it's it's working well and you have less discomfort. You're probably not growing professionally. And that's about the time you need to break the circuit and do something different that gets you back out of flow and get you into some discomfort so you can learn and adapt. And then when you get back in flow on that one, then do it again.
00:31:02
Speaker
And so I've tried to do that. um It's why I kind of got out of engineering and branched into a lot of different things. I did an environmental role in the middle of my career. I'm thankful I did that. I did a lot of health and safety work. And so A lot of that was about getting out of flow. I i led teams where i I had no subject matter expertise whatsoever. And that's the other interesting thing, because you just learn about leading then, because you you actually can't ah contribute anything from an expertise standpoint. But but but they need leadership. And so you you really it really does sharpen and grow your leadership skills. So I have tried to do that a lot. um I think where we get mixed up is um discomfort is good. Being out of flow is good and learning how to get back in flow is good. um I think sometimes, you know, it can go too far. We have to be mindful of stress and mental health challenges and work-life balance. And I think the industry has been very slow to recognize the importance of those things and that those are equally as important as physical safety in the industry. And so I think we, not too much discomfort because I think we have to be mindful that mental health and wellbeing is as important as physical health and wellbeing and
00:32:16
Speaker
That's one of the things I'm probably most proud of in my last role in BHP, which the company I worked with for 26 years before I came to Hermosa. um I had health safety environment globally that I worked with a team on and we introduced kind of the first global mental health framework employee assistance programs where we really started trying to elevate the focus on mental health to be equal with physical health.
00:32:39
Speaker
And so, um yes, I think discomfort is equals growth, but we also have to be mindful that we really manage mental health and well-being. So a there's a line you got to walk there. um But I do encourage people to get out of their comfort zone and and specifically really grow the breadth.
00:32:57
Speaker
Learn more about the business. If you're an engineer, don't just do technical engineering work all the time. If you're an accountant, don't just do technical accounting work. Learn as much as you can in the interest of that.
00:33:08
Speaker
That's great. All
Unexpected Career Paths and People Skills
00:33:10
Speaker
right. I have a magic phone here. I'm going to dial a number. and it's going to be Pat at 18 years old. what what would you What would you tell Pat at 18 years old there in Oklahoma or wherever you might've been?
00:33:24
Speaker
Yeah, I was born and raised in Oklahoma. I left Oklahoma at 18 years old to go to college and never went back, but um he certainly wouldn't have believed what he was doing now. um So I was really strong in math and science growing up, so I kind of always knew I wanted to be an engineer, but... um I didn't, there's no mining in my family. So I had no idea there was such a thing as a mining engineer. I actually went to school to be an electrical engineer and changed majors because of ah an experience with mining while I was in school. um
00:33:56
Speaker
So I think, ah I think probably is at that point, I viewed my career as very technical and design and all the things you kind of do when you first go into engineering and Probably helpful to know early on that at the end of the day, it's still all about people. You can be the best engineer you can. you can be smartest person in engineering school. You're going to probably fail if you don't figure out how to work with people well.
00:34:25
Speaker
um And ah that's where I was fortunate early in my career, having to go out to the field and be involved in leading teams. I kind of learned that really quickly, but.
00:34:36
Speaker
I think, ah i think and and it's also obviously why I enjoy the industry now because the positive impact it can have on people as well. But I think that was probably the biggest one is be open-minded because you're it's probably not gonna go the way you suspected. When I changed my major to mining engineering, i I think my parents probably wondered, what what is he doing? Because I don't think they knew there was even such a thing. um But have an open mind. It's probably not going to go the way you like.
00:35:04
Speaker
Be willing to take some chances, that discomfort thing. And at the end of the day, always think about the people. That's great. Have you heard of the butterflyleck the butterfly effect? Yeah. So tell us about that moment that changed your career and, I mean, the whole trajectory of it.
00:35:20
Speaker
from being a double e to diving in feet first into the mining industry. Yes, as I said, I was really good in science and math. So I ended up going to, you know, as a primary, primarily an engineering school. It's Missouri University of Science and Technology. it Used to be the old Missouri School of Mines, just like Colorado radi School of Mines, kind of an all engineering school.
00:35:42
Speaker
Both my parents were teachers. There was no mining in my family. um But I thought I wanted to go into electrical engineering. um I played football in college as well. And some of my teammates were in mining. And I was like, that's strange. I didn't know, never heard of it.
00:35:58
Speaker
We didn't really have mines where I grew up. And they were working these summer internship jobs in underground mines in southern Illinois. and I knew they were making pretty good money and it sounded interesting so I asked, can you get me one of those summer jobs? After my after one of my semesters of college they were like sure. So I went and worked underground in a mine in Southern Illinois in a coal mine actually and I just got my blood. I loved it.
00:36:26
Speaker
the likes it The technology and what they could do to underground mine this resource and produce it and then turn it into energy I was just amazed the machinery, the scale.
00:36:38
Speaker
ah But probably what I enjoyed the most um was the sense of team underground. I had a team sports background. I played football. My dad was a high school football coach. I kind of grew up on the sidelines and just the culture and the cohesiveness and how they relied on one another and help each other. And like that, that was kind of the culture and underground minds that I saw. It's like, that's, that's kind of my comfort zone. I want to be an engineer in that industry. And so I went back and changed my major the next semester and ended up going back and, working every summer in one of those mines. And it just got in my blood in an entirely unexpected way.
00:37:16
Speaker
So in a manner of speaking, Pat, you're like the head coach of your own organization here. Yeah, I guess so. um It is about leadership and helping people be successful and strategy, just like the game plan.
00:37:32
Speaker
So to some extent, I never got to be a coach like my dad. But but yeah, it's there are very similar aspects of it. And, you know, there's a lot of what we do where team before self is really important, which is kind of the way I grew up in sports as well.
00:37:47
Speaker
um some people don't like the sporting analogy but certainly it is all about a collection of people coming together getting behind ah a vision motivation you know all the same things we talk about in in sports as well that's great all right i'm going to take that same phone going to dial some other numbers and it's going to be pat 79 years old and and this time instead of uh instead of uh some you know telling yourself something now you're going ask some questions of a 79-year-old Pat?
Future Reflections on Shared Value Creation
00:38:20
Speaker
Yeah, I mean I think um it's probably with the luxury of hindsight at that point of what we did at Hermosa. um Did we do everything we could do to create that shared value? um For me, ah a different outcome here when you look back on it 30 years from now.
00:38:44
Speaker
You know, and probably will never know what that is, but I think we have a lot of people that work in Hermosa that want a different kind of outcome. And so if you fast forward to that point, can you look back and say we did all the right things to...
00:38:58
Speaker
generate shared value, transform a community, lift it up and prepare it to thrive after these finite or natural resources are are exhausted? um Did it deliver on what it's meant to deliver to help our country thrive? And in doing so, did we help be a part of transitioning the mining to kind of a new era and a new phase where, you know, we can get the support of more of our stakeholders because we're doing things differently and more responsibly? So,
00:39:27
Speaker
um We do things called post-implementation reviews on big projects and things. So I suppose it would probably be a lot of questions doing a post-implementation review of whether we got it right here or not. But we're trying. But yeah, just the thought of understanding what it might look like at that point and delivering on some of these objectives we have would, I think, be a big part of it.
00:39:52
Speaker
Got two more questions for you. Okay. First question is, what are some elements of leadership that you would either explain to somebody that is up and coming or your twin boys
Leadership and Continuous Learning
00:40:07
Speaker
or your daughter? What are some elements that to you? I mean, you've mentioned some of them already, but what are some things you would you would really convey to somebody who is looking to break into the career market in general?
00:40:20
Speaker
Yeah. I think ah one, we're always, and I think these are things we're always working on. I certainly haven't cornered the market or figured all these things out. And I think that and of itself is probably the biggest one is you're always learning and realize that, Leadership, it's a bit like how we talk about our pursuit of safety is it's a never-ending job, the learning part of leadership.
00:40:43
Speaker
You're always learning. We're always working on something. You have to find what that next thing is that you're working on. I still have things I'm working on today in my leadership. They're different to what they were 10 years ago or 15 years ago. So I think the trap a lot of people fall into is with experience, they get to the point where they think they've got it all figured out.
00:41:04
Speaker
And you never do. And you can learn from everyone. um I have talked a lot about reverse mentoring and the fact that I learn from everybody in our business. It doesn't matter what you're doing and who you are. and There's not a week goes by. I don't learn something from somebody else in our in our business. And so I think being open to continuous learning, um showing a lot of curiosity,
00:41:27
Speaker
Learning to ask good questions. Here's a really simple one I talk to people about is just learning to ask good open ended questions. It's important because you learn and you kind of get the pulse of things, but also we talk about things like teach don't tell. So when you need somebody to really understand something. How do you help them figure it out for themselves rather than just telling them? yeah Well, you ask really good open-ended questions and you keep asking good open-ended questions until they get there. And it's much more effective and much better for culture and things like that. But these are all things you're constantly working on. I think that's probably the overarching one is you've never arrived. You've always got to keep trying to do better, seeking feedback, figuring out what you're not doing well now and work on it.
00:42:13
Speaker
Maybe we'll see you in one of those undercover boss shows. ands Yeah, maybe. That'd be a good way to do it. Final question. This is kind of a bit of an oddball from left field, but I figured it's interesting to take um to understand from your side, who is uniquely
Future Innovations and Mining Careers
00:42:31
Speaker
positioned.
00:42:31
Speaker
What are your thoughts on mining an asteroid? ah I think we'll figure some of that out someday. i am a big believer in science and innovation. um I mean, just in my career, it's like 33 years now, if you would have told me when I first started in those mines in college that we'd be doing some of what we were doing in Centro, that would have seemed pretty far out there. um It's hard at this point to remember how incredibly important
00:43:06
Speaker
innovative and out there and you know maybe unattainable at that point, that seemed. And so um i think we'll figure things like that out over time. um And I think we'll probably figure out different ways to do the things that we use mineral resources for now, and it might require different kinds of mineral resources. But um I have a lot of faith in science and innovation. um And so I'm sure we'll we be doing things like that at some point.
00:43:35
Speaker
And if I reflect on how far we've come just in the in the big picture, my career is not that long and how far we've come in that time frame in the industry, I'm sure we'll get there.
00:43:48
Speaker
That's a great answer. Yeah, I think god this has been a very enlightening conversation just to get the perspective of not only what's happening with Hermosa, your background, some of your leadership lessons.
00:43:58
Speaker
Appreciate the time. Any final thoughts for our audience? Well, I think maybe... Part of what I talk to people about that don't know a lot about mining is have a look and ask questions, because we absolutely, ah you know, there's this there's a place in mining for everyone now.
00:44:17
Speaker
there That has not been the case in the past. um We'll have all kinds of careers at Centro. Every kind of engineer and scientist, data scientist, um accountants, HR people, supply chain. There's huge career opportunities in mining that probably a lot of people haven't thought about before, particularly with technology. And we're gonna have a workforce crisis. We actually need to draw our workforce from all of society to be successful in running these projects. and so um Think about it. Try it out. There's a huge opportunity. are Never been a more exciting time to go in our industry, and there's um really a lot of long-term opportunities for people that want to innovate. We use the same technologies as every other advanced manufacturing industry, be it AI, machine learning, talked about automation. um so it's a great place to do good for people. We provide sort of the fundamental basis of a lot of the products that people use in society today. They often don't realize it, yeah but we do. And we're doing it in a different way that utilizes technologies to lift people up and um help society. So I think it would be just consider mining.
00:45:27
Speaker
Is there a term that's used for ah first, I don't know, first mining deposit converted into metal i mean is there like a term like that in other words when's going to open and actually start producing so we'll we'll mine the first ore underground in 2027 and then we're building a plant to process that or that will come online shortly after that so we're you know we're only a couple of years away from you know starting to produce and produce product and so that's very exciting. It's um it's been a long time since we've opened a true greenfield mining operation like this in the U.S. And so we're really pleased it's happening here in southern Arizona.
00:46:11
Speaker
It's great. Let's do this again in like four or five years. We've got a couple of years in your belt. Perfect. There'll be lots of new things to talk about. Thank you very much, Pat. Appreciate your time. Cheers. Thanks.