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Episode 3 - Work - Part 1
20 Plays5 years ago
Episode 3 of the Intro to Extra Podcast, in this episode Ross and Gregg discuss work and the realities of work for each personality
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Intro to Extra'
00:00:04
Speaker
You are listening to Intro to Extra, the life and times of polar people. The podcast where an introvert and extrovert talk about how they perceive and experience life differently through random musings and anecdotes.
Purpose of the Podcast
00:00:31
Speaker
This podcast is meant to explore experiences and is intended to provide a certain level of empathetic understanding. In no way are the opinions expressed in this discussion an absolute about introvert and extrovert realities, simply to individuals awareness of each other's methods of coping with their existence in the world.
Meet the Hosts: Greg and Ross
00:00:50
Speaker
Each week we will discuss a new phenomenon and we'll end when we feel we've exhausted enough experiences or no one actually listens.
00:00:59
Speaker
Hi, I'm Greg, the extrovert. And I'm Ross, the introvert.
Work Dynamics and Quarantine Experiences
00:01:04
Speaker
And today, Greg, we have a riveting topic, something that literally we do five days a week and that's work. Well, maybe, maybe four for some of us, but we're going to talk about work today, Greg. Are you excited? That's where you get to meet people.
00:01:20
Speaker
Well, nowadays, I mean, I am excited that we get to talk about work. I mean, we definitely walk through quarantine, we kind of touched on a little bit, but I am excited about diving into the discussion around work and its dynamics for being an introvert and extrovert.
00:01:36
Speaker
So while I look at myself in the Zoom video here, and my hairstyle, as you referred to it earlier, as 16-year-old emo, I'm going to go with silver lining and say, I still look young for my age. So thank you. Thank you for that, Greg.
00:01:58
Speaker
whatever helps. I think to myself of wow man my wardrobe has you know has really uh has really changed from a work perspective right I don't I don't have to worry about dressing and I mean I didn't dress up I know you were you were a dress up for work type of guy right you did what ties ties on Tuesday ties on what was that so so was that for it was that for me be honest with me was that for attention Greg was that so people would talk to you come on now
00:02:25
Speaker
Actually, it was the
Wardrobe Choices and Personal Style
00:02:26
Speaker
obverse. It was people actually, I recognize that I started getting, I started on the phones at the company that I started with. My first job was answering phone calls, which is a great job for an extrovert, by the way.
00:02:38
Speaker
And you know, you just get used to wearing jeans and a t-shirt or a polo shirt or whatever it is. And then as time goes on, you just forget to iron it. Your pants just were like whatever was on the floor last night, I'm gonna wake up and put those on. Like I was that guy. And I realized, you know what, I need to treat this like a real job. Like actually, like I have a professional in the market and I need to find
00:03:04
Speaker
a moment to do it. And so one day I just dressed up in a suit and I came to work. And everybody asked me if I had a funeral or if I was had a job interview and I was like, well, wait, so if I'm gonna do this, and I want to avoid those questions that have to be consistent with it. Surprisingly, surprisingly, it took it took two years before people really recognize that I would start a changing my wardrobe and be would dress up really, like really professional on one day a week.
00:03:31
Speaker
Yeah. And so, so did you, so you're saying it took two years before they finally just both recognized and didn't ask the questions? No. And then, and then as I, as, as time went on, I began to buy a lot more louder clothes, but before it was much more muted. It was just, you know, it was cream and black and blue. It was not very much like it wasn't the loud reds and oranges and purples that I wear today.
00:03:59
Speaker
Yeah, I believe there was a Jack O'Lantern suit or some sort of pumpkin suit. Well, those are comical, right? Those are designs specifically. Actually, the story behind that is someone asked me if I would wear one. And I said, of course I would wear one.
00:04:15
Speaker
Of course you would wear one. A hundred dollars for a gag. I'll do that. I mean, look, I bought backdrops for Zoom now so that I have these backdrops that I can say that I'm in Hawaii or in a spaceship or something
Clothing and Social Interaction
00:04:26
Speaker
else. You know, everybody has the virtual backdrop in Zoom and I've got real static backdrops here. That's commitment, man. I appreciate the commitment. But it's interesting. I think it was for anti-attention. I think I started dressing up originally because people gave me too much attention for this kind of slovenly look that I had.
00:04:44
Speaker
I didn't expect it to be and then the negative attention that came from dressing up, which then became even more pronounced because we were like, Oh, wow, you're dressing up now, what are you trying to make us all look bad, blah, blah, blah. I tried to avoid both of those types of attention. And then as I became more confident in the role, in the roles that I had, then it was easier for me to play off of it, then it became much more of a calling card, and I liked and enjoyed it, but I didn't necessarily enjoy it right away.
00:05:09
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's interesting for me from my perspective with with clothing and like what I what I wear at work if in the office, right? I'm a polo type of person jeans. It's accepted. That's an definitely an accepted cultural thing at where I work and I
00:05:27
Speaker
Definitely I'm going to dress towards not going to draw attention to me, right? I don't want I don't want a random stranger to say hey, that looks really nice I love that tie, you know those type of things I do not I definitely do not want that type of attention. However, I
00:05:43
Speaker
I will tell you, I have worn shirts intentionally to elicit a response with my team. My direct team, the people I have a relationship and built. I have a Disney shirt that I wore and I'm like, ooh, I'm gonna meet with the team, I'm a big Disney fan, so I'm gonna wear that. And I elicited a response and I like that. I did that specifically for that response to stir up a conversation and talk about things amongst my smaller team.
00:06:10
Speaker
Now, do I want that type of hallway attention? And I work in a fairly large company, so there's hallway attention, right? You don't know everybody in the building. I don't want that. So for me, typically it's wear the standard, quote, uniform, if you will, and move on. Because when I wear a tie, typically it is for a funeral or a job interview, right?
00:06:40
Speaker
That's how it's going to I tried the tie Tuesday thing for a while, and it just wasn't worth and it just wasn't worth the effort for me. I think that's I don't I don't know how much I mean, definitely what you choose to buy from a clothing perspective is going to play into
00:06:59
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is going to play into that discussion about whether or not introverts, extroverts. I would imagine that an extrovert is probably much more open to having something a bit alternative as opposed to an introvert. A good, I think that's probably, I mean, my clothes definitely stand out. You don't, you don't miss me walking around, right? And I think that's the same thing. And we talked about a little bit about that. The very first podcast we talked about, I showed up at the meeting with the cufflinks and the jacket. I think, yeah, yeah.
00:07:28
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I'm definitely noticeable. So there's that I, but I mean, at the same time, I'm going to be, I'm going to be intentional, right? About what I wear or like, I think a lot about it. I mean, there's, there's a little bit of, there's a little bit of other things to discuss when I lay out all my clothes for the week. Let's call it being organized because it's what it is. But you know, I'm gonna, if I'm wearing shoes that are different than I normally wear, not like tennis shoes or something,
00:07:57
Speaker
i was very thoughtful about that and there's a reason i wore those because maybe i do want to look a little bit nicer for a meeting or you know i want to i want to make an impression so it's not it's not saying that i try to completely fly under radar i put thought into it but i think to your point is an extrovert i i see it as as an introvert
00:08:17
Speaker
I don't see it, my clothing as part of my overall persona and the work I do versus as an extrovert. The extroverts I do know, it's very much right. Like there's, there's, there's another gentleman that I'm thinking of that we totally have to bring on as a guest who loves his shoes and he will call out his sneakers when he's wearing new and like, dude,
00:08:40
Speaker
check these out because he's like, he wants to. That's what he's excited about. But anyways, so enough about enough about clothing choices. I just thought that was as I, as I look at me wearing my tool shirt and my 16 emo, I guess it really does. Even though tools, not necessarily emo, but it jogged my memory of a time when I had to choose my wardrobe a little bit better. So yeah, I think, I think it is, it is just one of those factors.
00:09:08
Speaker
that as extroverts and introverts, I don't know how much thought goes into it now, but I'm sure there's that conversation. I'm sure there's that conversation when you wake up. I mean, I do it when you're gonna go out, you're gonna go to dinner, you're gonna go on a date, whatever it is, you have that conversation, what message am I sending with this outfit?
00:09:24
Speaker
I think that even on t-shirt and jeans, you're still asking yourself, what message does this sound send? And it's really strange people that, in my opinion, that probably don't do that at some level. I would just imagine the introvert probably has asked himself, how do I blend in more? How do I stay more with the crowd? And as an extrovert, you're saying to yourself, how do I, how do I potentially, this is a conversation starter, is this going to have more notice? Is this going to have more play, whatever it is?
00:09:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Am I, am I going to get some more people interaction out of this and you know, going through that.
Isolation vs. Group Work
00:10:00
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Now you, you said something earlier, you worked on the phones. So I want to ask you the question because mainly I'm still trying to think of what my answer would be and I'll get there.
00:10:12
Speaker
What was, for your personality type and being an extrovert, someone who likes that interaction, you obviously said phone jobs are great for extroverts, at least were for you. What was the hardest job for you? And not saying it was bad or it was a terrible job, but what was the most difficult one for you to flex and truly get enjoyment out of?
00:10:37
Speaker
Well, I mean, in fairness, Ross, actually phones was great the first year when it was new and I was with a whole group of people and I had a lot of fun and I was taking phone calls and it was fast. I was really good at sales. So I was having high referral marks. I was good at that job. And then the following year, they put me on a team by myself for six hours at night in a building all by myself. Oh, man.
00:11:05
Speaker
So what I, and I think we've talked about it before, but I'm not sure we've talked about it. We definitely haven't talked about it in this format. So I had figured out how to hook up all of the Y cords that are available for the headsets so that I could walk all over the building. And because I was only taking one phone call an hour, I would just, I would actually take pace around. No, I take the headset in the bathroom because I was only taking one phone call an hour. Like I only once in a whole year did I ever get a call.
00:11:31
Speaker
Um, so I just walk around the whole time. I'd bounce the ball against the windows. I could actually walk down the stairs, like all the way down. Cause I had hooked up everyone's Y coordinate night. I'd put everybody's Y coordinate back. So they had no idea that I took all their white cords out. Oh man. And today's pandemic environment, that just, that just caused everybody to lose their mind right now. Like, Oh my God, germs. Well, they didn't lock their drawers, but I, but I was so alone. I really did cause, it really did cause some serious, um,
00:12:00
Speaker
damage to my psyche. I really hated my job. I used to call my parents and just complain about how awful this job was because at four o'clock when everyone went home, I was there for six hours by myself at night with no action and no activity. And while I did get to work on my master's degree, it was psychologically damaging. I only had one other time where that was the case and that was due to bullies, but that's
00:12:26
Speaker
I was later on in my career and very different. I think the harder jobs for me are the ones that involve no people.
00:12:36
Speaker
If I have to do just a task by myself, I love group work. I'm that guy in school who absolutely loves group work. Other people hate it. They're like, I hate group work. I'll do most of the work. Here's the best part about being in my group. I will do most of the work as long as there's people there with me to do it. God, where were you in my group work life? Well, I know where you were. You were there, but I always avoided you. I was like, look down, look the other way. We got a crazy person coming my way. Oh, gosh.
00:13:03
Speaker
Yeah. So I think for me, the harder jobs are the ones in which I was expected to do quite a bit of stuff by myself. I'm having a hard time in the job I'm at now. I think in some ways because I am by my, while I have a team and things, there's, there's a lot of maturity that needs to happen with, with the staff to get to where I'm at. And so there's still a lot of work, right? And being that we're in zoom land, doing the work by myself makes it, makes it challenging. Yeah. And, and so thinking about what you said,
00:13:32
Speaker
about being in a job all alone was tough for you. I don't think it would be any easier for me. Being an introvert, you would think, oh, they're going to love that. There's not a lot of people. I've got to have some sort of team. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm the type of person I love to research something, so I love to dig in and research something on my own.
00:13:57
Speaker
If you say we're going to have a group project, one, I would like to know who my team members are going to be so I can better understand that. But I would prefer for the first couple of weeks, go do some individual research on your own, then we're going to come back and start a group project. So I think from a work standpoint, I would probably enjoy that.
00:14:19
Speaker
kind of like you did with the call with the one where you were on phones with a team. For the first little bit, I'd be like, oh my goodness, I get autonomy. It's not a lot of interaction. I can focus on things, right? Or I could really dive into stuff. But at some point in time, I would want some sort of
00:14:37
Speaker
strong relationship. Now, I wouldn't want to be handling calls all day long because for me, that's like meeting a new person all day long. Right. And we'll get to I don't know if we talked, but no, I don't think we talked about going to conferences. We'll get we'll get to that later.
00:14:55
Speaker
But it's for me it would it would be challenging to i would desire a group of people but three or four people that i'm really close with some of the best teams i ever worked with were. Five or six people that i had worked with for a year to and that was that was my favorite thing to work on.
00:15:14
Speaker
Now, question for you, going back, just so our audience is aware, our audience of four and a half, because we're probably losing someone. Stay here. You'll want to hear the answer to this, I promise.
Handling Conversations as an Extrovert
00:15:31
Speaker
What was Greg's handle time on these calls with people? Because I feel like you would get so excited that you would be talking to these people. I hope you were in a situation where it was like a
00:15:42
Speaker
relationship building call, not transactional based, but maybe I'm wrong. Were you like a knock them out or were you like, eh, how's the weather? Those types of things.
00:15:51
Speaker
Well, it depends, right, Russ? I mean, in the beginning- No, it doesn't. Reg, come on. It's transactional. That's what I want to know. In the beginning, I had pretty fast handle times because the calls were, I was handling a credit card product. It really was, hey, you called in, you want to make a payment or whatever it is, and we're in and out, we're transactional. Okay, I'm looking for the angle of where I'm going to fit in to sell, right? Okay. So I'll use something. Okay. So those were good calls.
00:16:19
Speaker
moving into when I only had one call an hour, I would pray for the old guy. I'd pray for the guy that wants to sit there and talk to me for an hour. And I would just sit and listen, kind of similar. I mean, I would just sit and listen to him. Yeah. Yeah. Because you were right there with him. You just wanted someone to talk to as well. Please talk to me. Please spend time with me.
00:16:40
Speaker
It's like, no, it's like, please tell me what's on the, what's, tell me what's on the only sold on TV commercial right now. Let's talk through it. Is it one of those knives that can cut through metal? Please. Let's just talk about anything, sir. And surprisingly, I liked listening to them talk to me about, you know, sometimes they give me advice on investments or different things. It was always interesting to talk to them. I, I've been accused of,
00:17:06
Speaker
being a big talker, which I'm not necessarily saying it's untrue. Uh, but, but I do like to listen. Um, I do like to listen. It's not just completely just one sided conversation. Yeah. Well, what do, what do they say? Like you're supposed to, you have two ears and one mouth. You're supposed to listen twice as much as you speak, right? Well, it's, it's, it's easy. You just speak a whole lot. So you just have to listen a whole lot more.
00:17:32
Speaker
Right. It's just, it's a ratio. I think I feel that you keep up that ratio, Greg. Well, thanks. I feel like you're very effective at that ratio. Well, that's good because I don't always know. If you talk to my parents, they'd probably tell me that I don't listen enough. But I think the part of it for me, I think the part of it for me in the listening avenue is that I am not so good at asking people questions.
00:17:56
Speaker
It's not because I don't care. It's because you have to say something that's really interesting for me to like go then dig in. And then I have this problem with filters that like.
00:18:06
Speaker
I don't know the boundaries of normal conversation. I'm like, Oh, that's interesting. Let's ask questions about their mother. They don't, they, they hit on something. Let's talk. So your mother's an immigrant. So you're, you're the, she's from the Sudan. I mean, this really happened. I was like, she's from the Sudan. Yeah. You're the reason that companies put in the, uh, the whole training on what questions you should and shouldn't ask. You're like, Oh yeah, that's right. Uh, I can't. Oh yeah. An interview. I'm absolutely professional. Cause I just asked the questions on the sheet and I know that whatever, stick with, stick with the script now. Yeah.
00:18:36
Speaker
Now you, no filter, remember that time we were, so Greg and I, I'll try to set context even though I'm not necessarily going to be as effective as Greg would be at this. We had breakfast pretty regularly and usually when we finish breakfast we go put our food away or the containers.
00:19:00
Speaker
And typically the walk you know when you start walking you get real smart you know you get the juices flowing and we were having. A pretty healthy i would say is debate but we're having a pretty animated conversation right outside one of the main you know main cafeterias and.
00:19:19
Speaker
Greg is talking and I'm already slowly starting to back away. Like, all right, getting a little too animated. There's other people around. Let's not call attention to this. Oh, no, no, no. We've got some gentlemen walk by, just unassuming gentlemen. And Greg decides to just pull this guy in who turned out to be a high level executive, just decides to pull this guy in and tell him his opinion. Now, Greg,
00:19:49
Speaker
Do you do that all the time? All the time. Cause that, cause that, oh my goodness. I was so embarrassed. I'll be honest folks. I was embarrassed. It is only backfired on me one time. I was actually telling this story the other day. It only backfired me on one time and that's because the individual.
00:20:05
Speaker
actually was an over here. He was not necessarily part of the conversation. I would have pulled him in had I wanted to be included. But he only listened to the last couple sentences I said. And in context, if you just heard those last few sentences, yeah, it was absolutely controversial.
00:20:22
Speaker
But had you heard the rest of the conversation, you would have understood why I wanted to. And I am the type of person I've been in. I don't like to cross lines, as Dave Chappelle says, a perpetual line crosser. I'm not a perpetual line crosser. I just walk right up to the line and I go, hey, look, there's a line. Hey, what's up, line? How you doing, line? I'm going to walk all down this line.
00:20:44
Speaker
just completely all up and down the line. You and the line become good friends. You know when to push it and when not to. And I don't even know what the line looks like, Greg. I am so far away from the line. I know what the line looks like because I've hung out with you, which is why from a polar opposite personality perspective, I appreciate you for that because it's good to know where I will never go.
Cultural Change and Corporate Conversations
00:21:10
Speaker
Yeah, well, the line is important. I think learning and I realize it's about business and I'm starting to realize the difference between, I think, kind of these behemoth businesses and kind of the startup cultures. I mean, you have the worst examples of it, like Uber and others that have these reputations with CEOs and cultures of just nastiness.
00:21:31
Speaker
underneath them because of just kind of the pervasive... they were unchecked and unbalanced throughout their history so that by the time they become a behemoth organization, that pervasive culture, their vice has had that issue. Other... well, vice makes sense. Come on, you talk about it anyways. But pervasive cultures. However, I think in behemoth organizations, big bureaucratic arms, learning and conversation stops.
00:21:59
Speaker
We no longer have healthy debates about things. We no longer push the envelope of what is right and what is wrong. We, we, we shoot for, don't rock the boat. Don't change anything. Yeah. And do you think the culture, cause shifting a culture is very difficult. Do you think that it's easier because I, I actually find it,
00:22:22
Speaker
You know, when I see companies trying to change the culture, it's actually encouraging to me as an introvert because I've already thought long and hard about, you know, posturing for these things, the things that, you know, I'm not gonna go up to that line, but oftentimes in order to change culture, you have to go to that line and you have to push that line. So is it easier to embrace a culture change?
00:22:49
Speaker
as an extrovert versus an introvert? Because I feel like, oh yeah, I can embrace the culture change really well as an introvert, but am I really going to be the person that helps change the culture? And I think that is true, right? I do think that there are those who have loud voices who can eloquently put things so that other people rally behind them. There are leaders, right? Innately, I think there are leaders.
00:23:14
Speaker
introverts and extroverts. So let's take that out of the bucket because I think that's the first part you have to answer is that there are some people that are changed people. Of both styles, right? Of both styles. Introversion and extroversion, yeah.
00:23:28
Speaker
And some work better than others. I think introverts in some ways can change things through their methods of probably working on policies and things like that, not to overly stereotype, but change it through other means. And I think extroverts are probably the type that are like, hey, what's up? Open the door, punch in the face verbally and then walk out. I mean, I think there's those people. And style is what we're talking about in personality type.
00:23:52
Speaker
Yes. You think that there are introverted change agents. I don't think that that's not the case. Enough Ted Talks to suggest that there are introverted change agents. What I do think is interesting though, and I think it's a question is how much of your introversion and extroversion plays, well, it's not even an interesting thought. It's just a reality.
Cultural Reactions and Change Agents
00:24:12
Speaker
No one's going to blame Tom Hanks for not being an extrovert. That guy's an extrovert, right? You watch him on anything, you see him and he's an extrovert, right?
00:24:19
Speaker
He did an interview with recently, I think it was a few months ago, and he talked about the pervasiveness of sexual harassment and abuse in the system after Weinstein, whatever. And the interesting question to me the whole time was not about whether or not he's an extrovert or introvert. The question was, if you knew about it, why didn't you say something? And then you realize that
00:24:42
Speaker
that culture controls and restricts because if he had come out, he would lose his jobs and so his own self-interest prevented him from coming out.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah. And even, even then, even what's interesting is even a voice that, you know, the somebody is so respected, like Tom Hanks, right? I love Tom Hanks. Even a voice like his can be squashed by a very strong and pervasive culture, whether good or bad, it can be, it can get lost in that. Right. And there's, it seems like there's a tipping point. And I always wonder that tipping point is it,
00:25:19
Speaker
Is it a type of personality, right? Like you said, is it just enough change agents? I guess. And it's on both sides because you need personalities on both, right? You need the people who are going to be the megaphones and amplifying that you need the people working behind the scenes, really diving into that. But I think from a, from a culture perspective,
00:25:43
Speaker
I don't know. I guess, I guess there's a balance, right? There wasn't really, I wasn't really looking for a right answer. I was just curious your perspective on if you felt for you, it's easier to embrace a culture shift when a company's like, yeah, we're going to do a culture shift. Are you, are you skeptical?
00:26:00
Speaker
Oh, I'm always skeptical. I mean, change is always hard. I change is hard. Again, doesn't have anything to do with person doesn't have anything to do with necessarily extrovert introvert. I think change is always hard. I think I do think the one thing that is different is that extroverts
00:26:16
Speaker
at least me being an extrovert can see even if change is hard and they see it and they're resistant, etc. They see the benefit of people, they have a group, they're going to rally behind it, etc. introverts, and it's about controls, right? I think introverts probably in their way of managing how much interaction they have with people probably have more controls they stand to lose in a cultural change.
00:26:37
Speaker
That's a good perspective. I never thought about that. Because extroverts don't have that many. I mean, obviously, if I'm out there saying a bunch of random crazy stuff, talking about the corporate values and its embodiment or whatever, out loud in the middle of a hallway, you're okay in more cases than not that a change is going to happen. Good, bad, or indifferent. At least it's change. This is something. But I don't know how much of that is an extrovert as much as it is just
00:27:06
Speaker
my personality type, but I do think most extroverts are probably okay would change culturally when it has to do with interaction levels, overt people stuff. I would imagine if you change their job a bit though, they'd freak out just how much an introvert would. Got it. All right. Well, when we come back from the break, let's talk a little bit about conferences, Greg.
00:27:36
Speaker
Thank you for listening to this week's Intro to Extra.