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E062: The Dardeen Family Murder
1.8k Plays5 years ago
The Dardeen family murder was gruesome-- brutal beatings, unimaginable crimes, and mutilation. It was a crime claimed to have been the work of serial killer Tommy Lynn Sells, but was his confession of the murders just a sadistic lie?
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Transcript
Starting a Podcast with Buzzsprout
00:00:00
Speaker
Sleuthhounds, have you ever considered creating your own podcast? Have you been inspired by listening to some of your favorites and thought, I'd love to try this out on my own. Whether it's a true crime podcast like ours, a motivational podcast, or maybe one filled with tips and strategies for those interested in the same activities you are,
00:00:21
Speaker
When Maggie and I first decided to start our podcast, we knew absolutely nothing about what podcasting would entail. But when we found that the platform Buzzsprout was one for which we didn't need any special equipment, just a computer microphone, some quiet space, and each other, we knew that this was the way to go. It's intuitive to use, fun to play around with, and so helpful in getting analytical data about our number of downloads to track trends,
00:00:49
Speaker
and from where our listeners hail. Best yet, Buzzsprout is affordable, even by our teacher salary standards. Buzzsprout will get your podcasts listed on every major podcasting platform. So what are you waiting for? Fulfill that dream of yours and start today.
00:01:07
Speaker
If you use our Coffee and Cases referral code, 709-643, linked on Facebook and in our show notes, not only will you help support our show, but you will receive a $20 Amazon gift card after your second month on a paid plan. It's that easy. Podcasting
Content Warning and Introduction to Ina, Illinois Crimes
00:01:27
Speaker
isn't hard when you have the right partners. Join over 100,000 podcasters already using Buzzsprout to get their message out to the world. Now,
00:01:37
Speaker
It's time for the world to hear what you have to say. Due to the graphic nature of this week's episode, listener discretion is advised. It was 1987 and the sleepy town of Ina, Illinois had become paranoid.
00:01:56
Speaker
Teenagers, nervous about becoming victims, would wait patiently for their parents to pick them up from school rather than the normal assertion of independence that comes in the teenage years. Gone was the carefree nature of childhood. Adults, also determined not to become victims, drove around packing guns in their vehicles. Better safe than sorry.
00:02:22
Speaker
Gone was the sense of security from the outside world that's normally present in small towns. Opened doors were locked. Hospitality became a relic, neatly stored on the shelf for better times.
00:02:38
Speaker
The past two years have been hard on the small town of Ina. They had seen more devastation than they were equipped to handle. In 1985, a teenage boy by the name of Thomas Odle in Jefferson County had savagely murdered his mother, his father, a first sibling, a second sibling,
00:03:01
Speaker
and a third sibling as they individually arrived home. One would think that family homicide would be the most horrific crime the town would ever face, but they would be wrong. In 1987, there would be a crime so inconceivable and so gruesome that when townspeople thought of it, they were so distressed that many sought therapy to deal with their fear.
00:03:32
Speaker
One man, according to an article on the St. Louis dispatch, who lived about a half mile from the crime scene for this week's episode, had a hard time both sleeping and eating afterward, even losing 14 pounds because of his anxiety. The daughter of the landlord for the family at the focus of our case this week would keep her light on at all hours and read at night because she was afraid to fall asleep.
00:04:01
Speaker
Guards could
The Dardeen Family Murders: Setting the Stage
00:04:02
Speaker
never be lowered because such a senseless act with seemingly no motive and no suspects could happen again. And the details are the stuff of nightmares. It's no wonder that terror and doubt became commonplace. This is the case of the Dardeen family murders.
00:04:41
Speaker
Oh.
00:05:00
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:05:19
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because, as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. Before we begin our show this week, Maggie and I just wanted to say thank you. Yes, really, we do.
00:05:46
Speaker
I had mentioned in a previous episode that I feel like this is the year of the sleuthounds and I truly believe that. I feel like this, yes, you're exactly right. This is the year for our listeners, the year of the sleuthounds.
00:06:08
Speaker
We need a shirt. Yeah, we need. Oh, that would be good. No. You guys will have to let us know if you buy it. If we made some shirts. Yeah. Coffee and cases. Let's go.
00:06:22
Speaker
Maggie and I, though, on a serious note, we have been so blessed these last two weeks with increased listens with donations to our Buy Me a Coffee site that's linked on all of our episode pages. Shout out to the amazing Ashley for her generosity. And we've gotten some really kind comments from friends and listeners on our new venture into the TikTok community.
00:06:51
Speaker
Listen, I have.
00:06:55
Speaker
probably watched your video with the Lion King theme song probably close to 30 times. After I made it, I bet I walked around the house for an hour afterward and I would just burst into song. Rodney was like, please stop. He was like, I'm not so sure about this TikTok anymore.
00:07:25
Speaker
And best yet, this past week, Maggie and I have made some new friends in the true crime world. And one of those is Ash. And listen, Sleuthhounds, if you would like a change of pace from our setup of one episode a week and you wanted to add another podcast to your weekly lineup, I would suggest her show. It takes
00:07:53
Speaker
such care to create this really suspenseful story. And she covers a case per season. So it goes up into a lot of depth. And I would suggest to you not only to check out her podcast, Ashes to Ash TV, but if you prefer a visual version and Maggie, how impressive is it?
00:08:16
Speaker
listen she sent me the link to this and i was working on school stuff and i like stopped what i was doing it looks like
00:08:27
Speaker
A Hollywood film director. It really does. And it's filming amazing things. Yes. So I would suggest, especially if you like visual versions, subscribe to the Ashes to Ash TV channel on YouTube. And that is our gift to you, Sloophounds. It's that suggestion because it's so good.
00:08:50
Speaker
So yeah,
Keith Dardeen's Caution and Tragic Disappearance
00:08:51
Speaker
I've just been giddy, like I said, with all the love and support that you listeners have shown us by continuing to tune in each week, by sharing the podcast with other people. I love when you reach out to us on social media. Yeah, and like, I'm sure some of you saw on social media, but Madison shared
00:09:14
Speaker
like just about us on her Facebook page and our like show got 20 new likes on the Facebook page just from people that saw her suggestion which I thought was so cool. Yeah so those of you out there and you're like how but I don't really know that many people or you know I don't know if it'll make it it does make a difference well it makes a difference to us.
00:09:39
Speaker
Yeah, we just get happy when we see it. Oh my gosh, we got a new review today and I immediately texted back. I mean, everyone, it's just as exciting as the last one. Yes, I don't think we'll ever get tired of it. I know. And I just feel like despite all the chaos that's going on in the world, it just means so much that we can still count on good people. Yeah, I agree.
00:10:04
Speaker
And I have to say, the reason I'm bringing up all of this good stuff first is because what I'm getting ready to cover today, Maggie, is so incredibly dark.
00:10:18
Speaker
And I know I already gave the listener discretion, but I really mean more than I ever have that listener discretion is advised. I would not want anyone to gloss over that recommendation and for innocent ears to hear some of the details of today's case. Well, that makes me extremely nervous. I know. I know. As if you weren't already always nervous when you're getting ready to do these cases.
00:10:48
Speaker
So Russell Keith Dardeen, who was known as Keith, he's a middle namer. I'm a middle namer. It's okay. Why our parents gave us the first, I don't know, but we go by our middle ones. The teacher's worst nightmare. Yeah. He had called his mother Joanne recently to let her know that he wanted to move his small family back to the Mount Carmel area, which is where he was originally from.
00:11:15
Speaker
because in Ina, Illinois, the small town, there had been, well, in the county that Ina was in, there had been 15 homicides in Jefferson County in just the previous two years. And this county, the whole population of the county was only around 37,000. That kind of reminds me of,
00:11:40
Speaker
the Crystal Rogers case, like how many people in Bardstown were murdered in such a short amount of time and it's such a small town. Right. This is not the place where you think something like that is going to happen. And not only had there been 15 homicides in two years, but the crimes were horrific. They included that mind bogglingly horrible one that I mentioned in the introduction.
00:12:09
Speaker
So the family. Yes. Yes. And it was that crime, that family homicide combined with a recent rape and murder in May of 1987 of a 10 year old girl that prompted Keith to rethink Ina as a safe place to raise his family.
00:12:32
Speaker
Okay. I think I would agree. Yeah. And regardless of anything else, like you said, Maggie, it's easy to see why Keith wanted to get away from the violence, but making the move even more pressing was that he and his wife were a young couple with a three year old little boy, Peter, and Keith's wife, Elaine was seven and a half months pregnant with a couple second child.
00:12:58
Speaker
Aww. I know. So, I mean, this is really the time where you think, okay, where do we want to raise our kids?
00:13:06
Speaker
Yeah, clearly not in this town. Yeah, and what's funny is that, I mean, obviously they both decided, yeah, this town had seemed perfect, right? When Keith had accepted a job as a local water treatment plant operator, and it had seemed like this safe rural town when they had rented land from this kind farming couple to place their trailer on, but now,
00:13:33
Speaker
It was exactly the place they wanted to avoid. Yeah, don't blame them. Even though it would mean Keith leaving his position at this job that he really enjoyed and Elaine leaving her office supply store position and it would mean them leaving their new church family behind. They were really involved in church. Keith sang and Elaine played the piano. And so even though they were leaving all these positive things behind,
00:14:03
Speaker
Again, they decided this is what's best for the family and so they put up a for sale sign in the yard and I mean Even though it's an understandable choice. I feel like that would still be a hard one. Yeah, cuz I feel like so Recently, you know, we just moved and of course this year is different But it's just really hard when you move to a new town to try to find somewhere to fit in so I can understand being hesitant once you find that community of people or those friends and
00:14:33
Speaker
to be kind of hesitant to move again. Right. Keith had a great job, but he knew obviously that getting his family away from chaos was more important and he was willing to quit even without a new job lined up, which I know that could be scary. Yeah. He was brave for doing that for sure.
00:14:52
Speaker
I know, but they did need to sell their mobile home first. And you know, who knows how long that would take because when you sell a house, it could go next week. It could be on the market for a while.
00:15:06
Speaker
And until his last day, whenever they were able to sell their home, Keith was determined to put in his full and best work at the plant. Now, unlike me, Maggie, who, I mean, I'm always at meetings on time. I am responsible, Sleuth Hounds, but I'm usually like huffing it to get there right at the last minute. Running down the hallway, sliding into the chair. There was one time I remember, um,
The Horrific Discovery and Initial Suspicions
00:15:37
Speaker
Like I had dance practice and I was trying to get them started in the hallway and the faculty meeting had started and like I slid in. Oh my God, I feel so bad. I slid into the library like as they called my name because I won like an award for being like a superstar supervisor like for morning duty. And I was like,
00:16:00
Speaker
I'll take my free car wash thing. I'm right here. I'm right here. Yeah. Well, unlike us, Maggie, Keith was the employee who was always there super early, like way before I needed to be. Good job, Keith. I know. Very responsible. But on November 17th, not only did Keith not show up to work, he also didn't call in sick. Oh, so this is not normal for him.
00:16:30
Speaker
No, yeah, this is completely uncharacteristic. And so his boss immediately started calling Keith to find out where he was, right? And remember, we're in the 80s, so this is not the age of cell phones where you can ping them or whatever. You would only have your home phone number. Gotcha.
00:16:52
Speaker
And so the boss kept trying to call him, kept trying to call him multiple times and Keith never answered the phone. And so his boss actually called Keith's parents because obviously they would have a different home phone number. Well, that was nice that he went that far. Oh yeah. Cause I mean, I guess he's legitimately worried because again, this is so uncharacteristic.
00:17:18
Speaker
and I didn't read how the boss was able to find the parent's phone number so I don't know if like maybe they were listed as emergency contacts on his paperwork or like obviously they could have been in a phone book. Which people that are younger that is a literal book with people's telephone numbers in it that you could look up their number to call them.
00:17:40
Speaker
Yeah, so so much for like giving somebody your wrong number. You couldn't do that. They could look it up. But there wasn't any resolution even after the boss had called the parents Maggie because neither Keith's mom nor his dad had any knowledge of where he was either like they hadn't heard from him.
00:18:03
Speaker
So they did all act quickly. Keith's parents immediately called the police to go and do a welfare check. And according to one source, I couldn't find it verified in the other sources that I read, but one source said that Keith's dad even drove to Ina because he had a key to Keith's apartment or to his trailer.
00:18:27
Speaker
And so he would use his key to let the police in. And this was all of this happening on the very next day. So on the 18th. So they are moving quickly. Yeah. But that key ended up not being necessary because the back door was unlocked. Which is, like you said, a small town. So maybe not necessarily weird that your door is unlocked. Right. When police entered, they saw something grisly.
00:18:58
Speaker
In a bedroom, the police first saw seven months along Elaine tucked into bed. She had been bound and gagged with duct tape and then brutally beaten to death. Oh my God. It gets worse. Lying beside her was their three-year-old son, Peter, also beaten to death.
00:19:28
Speaker
And all of this presumably
The Unsolved Mystery and Community Fear
00:19:29
Speaker
with a baseball bat that was found at the scene. And it was a baseball bat that had been given as a birthday gift from Keith to his little boy. That's heartbreaking. I know. And Maggie, like that image of the two of them, of the mother and the son, savagely beaten, their bodies bruised, their skulls fractured, and then neatly tucked
00:19:55
Speaker
into bed by the killer or killers, that clearly alone would be enough to spur the anxiety that I mentioned in the introduction, but it gets worse. Oh, God. During the beating, because it was so brutal, Elaine had gone into labor.
00:20:18
Speaker
she gave birth to a little girl whom the Dardene family later named Casey because that was what Keith and Elaine had chosen as a name if they had a little girl. And, you know, as painful as childbirth is, it's normally such a joyous occasion. But for Elaine, Maggie, I can only hope that Elaine was not still aware enough
00:20:45
Speaker
to see the killer or killers also beat the newborn baby to death. They beat her baby? A newborn beaten to death and also placed in the bed alongside Elaine and Peter. Okay. First off, I can't imagine you beating a child to death. I can't imagine
00:21:14
Speaker
you beating a woman to death, let alone a pregnant woman. And you beat her so much that she goes into such distress that she goes into labor. And you, I'm assuming, keep beating her because she's not dead. And then not only does she have to endure that, but then you also beat her baby to death. I know. I can't imagine.
00:21:41
Speaker
There is no consolation, but the only thing in my head that I hope is that she wasn't aware of what was going on when they were harming the children. And I just think, yeah, like I can't imagine like if you were a three-year-old child and you had to witness that happen. Oh no, I know. It honestly leaves you speechless. Yeah, like I don't even have words.
00:22:12
Speaker
Other than their battered bodies though, Maggie, the home looked fairly tidy. Any blood had been cleaned up. Again, the three bodies were laid side by side and tucked into bed. And if you didn't know, if you didn't see the bruises, then it almost looked like they were about to fall asleep. It would almost look like this sweet and tender moment between a mother and her children.
00:22:43
Speaker
But it wasn't. And whoever did this, they took their time. There wasn't a rush. And most killers don't
Tommy Lynn Sells' Questionable Confession
00:22:55
Speaker
clean afterward.
00:22:58
Speaker
Any guesses, Maggie, as to who their first thought was? Who was missing from the scene? Well, immediately you think of Keith, the dad, because he's late for work. So if you find his children and his wife dead, if you're a police officer, you're going to assume that you're going to find him dead too. Yep. That's exactly right. And Keith and his 1981 Plymouth car were not at the home.
00:23:25
Speaker
Well, I know. So of course it makes sense that he would be the primary suspect.
00:23:31
Speaker
All the while, even while law enforcement was asking Keith's family, you know, could he have done this? Where might he be? And all of these questions, his family insisted that nothing could have driven Keith to such an act. Like that just wasn't in him. But I mean, the facts remained that the entire family had been annihilated
00:23:55
Speaker
Autopsies determined that they had been dead about 24 hours and remember Keith hadn't gone to work the day before and Keith isn't here. But the situation and the focus of the investigation quickly changed in the first seven hours after the discovery of the bodies.
00:24:18
Speaker
Law enforcement spent, Maggie, so much time, energy, and resources looking for Keith that they were quickly able to locate that same day on the 18th, his abandoned car. These police officers need a raise. Like, they have gone above and beyond with all of these investigations this little county has had to have. Yeah, and you know, I feel like
00:24:48
Speaker
Sometimes the police get a bad rap. And I mean, are there bad police officers? Absolutely, right? We've all read about them. But we can't lump all of them into that category. You know what I mean? These law enforcement officers worked tirelessly to get this investigation solved.
00:25:08
Speaker
Well, when they found his abandoned car, the red Plymouth was actually located in a bank parking lot in Benton, Illinois, roughly 11 miles south of the initial crime scene. Okay. So little odd, right? Like not in the same town. It's in a different town.
00:25:30
Speaker
And immediately the police began questioning their own choice of Keith as a perpetrator because inside of the car, it was spattered with blood and the blood inside was not that of his family members either. It was Keith's.
00:25:50
Speaker
But Keith still wasn't found. So like splattered as in like he's coughing and blood is coming up or like he's been hit and? Yes, he has been injured. Okay.
00:26:03
Speaker
And the discovery of Keith actually didn't happen until a few hours later when, according to an article by Callis King from November 22nd, 2020, some hunters were making their way through a wheat field near Rend Lake College, which is only about a mile from the Dardene family home, when they stumbled upon a body. That's weird.
00:26:28
Speaker
His car was 11 miles away from home with his splattered blood in it and he was a mile away from home. Correct. Okay. Yeah. This body, as you just guessed, was Keith Dardene. He had been shot three times in the head and his body had been mutilated. Lord.
Theories and Speculations: Multiple Killers?
00:26:55
Speaker
His
00:26:56
Speaker
sexual organ had been severed. Okay. And an autopsy determined that Keith had actually died within an hour of his family's death. Y'all should see my face right now. What? I know. Weren't you in fact in this part? Yeah.
00:27:20
Speaker
And now, I mean, they're left questioning because if Keith isn't the perpetrator, then who is? Well, I am going to say though, that at least it, like, it wasn't Keith. Like, right. Like at least he didn't turn on his family. Right.
00:27:42
Speaker
And the investigators, they started digging into the lives of Keith and Elaine Dardeen. And what they found was nothing. They found that they were loved by everyone. Literally not a single person had anything bad to say about either one of them. I mean, how could you? He sings in church. She plays the piano. Like they have a cute little three year old. She's cute and she's pregnant. And it's like, I feel like they're just like the perfect little family.
00:28:13
Speaker
Yeah, but then they're like, but what motive then? Right. So why kill these people? Right. And so, you know, there's some speculation that could happen to anybody, even if you're well liked, like robbery. But this wasn't a robbery gone wrong. Because when law enforcement entered the home,
00:28:32
Speaker
There was actually no sign of force entry. Remember the back door is unlocked. And like valuables in the home were just casually lying around in plain sight. So a burglar would have taken them. So, I mean,
Seeking Closure for the Community
00:28:50
Speaker
could it have been like a jealousy type murder? Like maybe somebody was in love with
00:28:58
Speaker
Elaine and was jealous of like her family because it seems very personal to chop off a man. Yeah, like that is very personal. And I mean, that's one theory, but police could find no evidence of any affairs of
00:29:20
Speaker
any like negative views. No stalker, nothing like that. Right. And well, I'm glad you brought that up too, because then you would think
00:29:30
Speaker
And I know this seems sadistic, but we've seen it in so many stories. You would think if she had a stalker that there would have been some sort of sexual assault, but they also ruled out rape as a motive because Elaine wasn't sexually assaulted. So literally just like somebody just decided they needed to kill someone and happened to drive by this trailer and thought, this is great. This looks good.
00:29:55
Speaker
kind of. Oh, yeah. Because the Dardines didn't have any enemies. And I think that's what scared the town so much. Yeah. Well, it's like that when you were talking about like, I don't remember which episode it was, but would you rather be murdered by a stranger or murdered by somebody you know, like both are equally as morbid and creepy. Right.
00:30:18
Speaker
And so then they're like, okay, well, there has to be a reason, you know, because we need reasons as humans. We just, we look for them.
00:30:28
Speaker
They did find a small amount of marijuana in the trailer, but the police actually think that maybe that was dropped by the perpetrator rather than it belonging to the Dardines. Yeah, that seems out of character for them. Right. Okay, so now you can see again why the fear.
00:30:50
Speaker
Yeah. Because no answers, no reasons. And one of, it's probably the most horrific family murder or even murder in general. Yeah, I just- That we have read about. Yeah, I just can't get past the like beating a woman that so much that you make her go into labor and then kill her premature baby. Yeah, I know. Just disgusting.
00:31:20
Speaker
There was Maggie because of Keith's body and the mutilation. Some speculation that maybe a cult was involved, but apparently, cause I had to look this up, apparently cult related mutilations tend to be more extensive.
00:31:43
Speaker
So it wouldn't just be his castration. Like there would be... Like his heart is taken out or... Right, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Because organs are usually harvested is what I read. So they're ruling that out too.
00:32:00
Speaker
And there seems nothing obvious left to explain the crime, which again makes it even more horrifying to think that a stranger could have such hatred of the world that they would commit such acts against those who had done nothing to them. I just think that maybe like despite the fact that we
00:32:24
Speaker
do this podcast, which we talk about so many horrific and sad things each week. Like I still just think I just live in like such a naive world. I guess like I just want so bad for everybody to just be good. Just be nice.
00:32:42
Speaker
Be happy. I know. I totally live in that bubble too, Maggie, because, well, you know, we were just talking about it the other day. Like if somebody says a mean comment to us, Maggie and I wear our hearts on our sleeves. Oh yes. I mean, we really do. And I always see the good in people. Always. Yeah. And so yeah, it is, it's hard to hear cases like this.
00:33:08
Speaker
But I guess we're, maybe we're some of the lucky ones, Maggie, because we can still see the good. Yeah. There you go. Instead of being fixated. So see, so far. I was just getting ready to say that exact same thing. We think alike.
00:33:22
Speaker
Um, but according to an article about the case on November 18th, 1988, by Paul de la Garza entitled families killing one year ago today makes town cautious. Quote, despite 822 interviews that have led investigators all over the country.
00:33:45
Speaker
A $10,000 reward from the Dardeen family and a stream of leads, the case remains unsolved. Any closer to a suspect or an arrest? No, said Jefferson County Sheriff's Captain Mike Anthus, who leads the investigation.
00:34:04
Speaker
We don't see that around the corner. It's one of those situations. It could be tomorrow, next week, next month. You don't know. It may be another year from now. It's kind of like working a 5,000 piece jigsaw puzzle." And Maggie, those comments were made 32 years ago. And there's still no resolution. Wow.
00:34:29
Speaker
The police exhausted every possibility, but like I said, there's no evidence of affairs. There's no proof of drugs being involved. At one point, the police actually thought that the crime could have been the result of financial debt because when they were looking in the trailer, they found some newspapers that were open to sports scores. So they were like, hmm, I wonder if
00:34:55
Speaker
Keith had like accumulated some gambling debts and this crime against them was like the penalty for not paying the debts but I mean first the crime seems a little bit excessive and too personal for me to be like for settling gambling debts. Yeah um and why the whole family like that's right that's excessive.
00:35:20
Speaker
Exactly. And second, in an interview for an article in the Chicago Tribune with reporter Flynn McRoberts in 2000, Keith's mother Joanne found the accusation of gambling completely baseless. She said, quote, are you kidding? He wouldn't let go of a 50 cent piece. He took cheap pop to the water treatment plant where he worked and sold it for 50 cents a can and saved it for Peter for his college fund, end quote.
00:35:51
Speaker
I know, like that's so sweet. So again, a man who's going to do that, who's going to buy like 20 cent a can soda to sell for 50 cents so he can save, you know, that 30 cents extra for his son's future college fund. That's not the man who's going to go gamble away all their money.
00:36:12
Speaker
So again, like we're ruling everything out, hundreds of potential leads turn up empty. Keith's mom Joanne though, never gave up hope Maggie.
00:36:27
Speaker
which I'm so glad, throughout the decades that followed, she was in constant contact with investigators. At one point in the 90s, so like the next decade, when she thought that the case was losing momentum, she took it upon herself to get a petition to have the murders spotlighted on the Oprah Winfrey Show. Look at her. That is so amazing.
00:36:50
Speaker
Yeah, because she's like, I'm not going to let them forget about my son, my daughter-in-law, my grandchildren. And she was actually able to get 3,000 signatures, but the murders were deemed too gruesome to highlight on daytime television. I mean, I do get that though.
00:37:08
Speaker
I do, I do get it, Maggie. But at the same time, I just think how sad that must be for the family. Like, oh, I'm sorry that the murder of my child isn't PC enough to be on television. Yeah, my bad. You know what I mean? I know. Because I feel like every family deserves for their loved one's story to be told. Well, what about like, um, like the cold case balls or like, um, that sort of mysteries or show like that?
00:37:36
Speaker
Well, I'm glad you brought that up because even America's most wanted initially turned down Joanne's request until they finally decided to cover the crime in a segment in 1998. But sadly no new leads came in though. Which I think is weird because we've covered several cases that even just when they play reruns, they get new tips in. Right.
00:38:06
Speaker
Well, it wasn't until a newspaper reported in 2000 that someone was admitting to having committed the murders, a man named Tommy Lynn Sells. And just one guess, Maggie. Slootowns, you've heard me say it before. What is my theory about three named people? Murders!
00:38:31
Speaker
I'm telling you, listen, I'm sorry, any listeners who go by three names, but serial killers statistically tend to have three names. So I'm not saying you are one. I'm just saying serial killers tend to. I've said it before, but this man named Tommy Lynn Sells, he admitted to committing the Dardeen family murders.
00:38:58
Speaker
Sells was actually in prison awaiting trial for another murder. So I'm going to tell you briefly about that crime, and then I'm going to lead into the dark news. But isn't that pretty common though? People on like death row or people awaiting like trial for murder will admit to crimes they didn't commit in hopes of like, sorry. You are so right.
00:39:24
Speaker
And so I'm going to get to that. OK, sorry. No, OK. So we don't know for sure whether he is lying or he's telling the truth. But you are absolutely right that that tends to be something that happens and could potentially be what has happened in this case, which is why we're covering it. I'm still calling it a cold case. OK.
00:39:52
Speaker
So Sells had settled down in the town of Del Rio, Texas. He had married a local woman and he had even joined the local church. And other than his coming and going from town quite often, so even though he's married to a woman there, goes to church there, he would like just leave for a while. But other than that, he seemed like anyone else in the town.
00:40:18
Speaker
That is, until he broke into a child's bedroom of one of his church members' homes where their 13-year-old girl was sleeping in a bunk bed and her friend was sleeping over in the top bunk. And when cells broke in, he slit the throats of both girls. What? Yes.
00:40:46
Speaker
Yes, but the visiting friend who was on the top bunk only pretended to be dead until Sells fled the scene. And that's when she made her way to help and safety at a neighboring house and was actually later able to identify him in a lineup. You go.
00:41:05
Speaker
Yeah, so he, I mentioned he was in prison, right? When he admits to the murder of the Dardines. So once he was arrested for the murder of Kayleen Harris and the attempted murder of her friend, Crystal, the one who was able to identify him, I mean, he's already looking at the harshest of penalties. And so Sells began confessing to many more murders across the United States.
00:41:33
Speaker
and he even like accepted this moniker of himself as the coast to coast killer as if he's like proud of it which is disgusting but i was also gonna say could explain why he would sometimes just disappear from town for a few days
00:41:50
Speaker
Right, exactly. So in all, Sells is likely to have murdered at least 10 people, likely closer to 22, but he confessed to upwards of 70. Holy crap! Yeah, so I mean, more than any other serial killer that I can think of.
00:42:12
Speaker
And one of the crimes that Sells claimed he committed was the Dardeen family murders. So in the mid 80s, when this crime happened, Sells was living in St. Louis primarily, which is only about an hour and a half away from Ina, Illinois. And
00:42:33
Speaker
you know, I mentioned that he would leave town quite often and Sells actually admitted that he lived this transient lifestyle. So he would hop rides on trains, he would hitchhike, like whatever he needed to do. And he also said that he was often so high on drugs that he would wake up in a new place and have no idea how he got there and sometimes would wake up and have blood on him and wouldn't know how it got there. Which you know what, I think,
00:43:02
Speaker
is even more sad for the victims of horrendous acts because he did not even like that just shows you it was just random. Right. I know and I'm glad you brought up the comment about confessions because
00:43:25
Speaker
There are some problems with his confession that make me wonder if this was, you know, just some sort of an attempt on his part to garner some mercy by seeming to cooperate with authorities. One of the first problems was with how Sells claims he came across the Dardine family.
00:43:47
Speaker
So he initially said that he came across Keith Dardeen at a truck stop in Mount Vernon and that Keith had invited cells into his home for dinner. So there's so many mounts in this case. We have Mount Vernon and Mount Carmel, which are two different things. Okay. Correct.
00:44:10
Speaker
So Sel said that once Keith invited him to dinner and he got to the Dardene home though, that Keith instead propositioned him to have a threesome with him and his pregnant wife. Okay. Again, I wish y'all could see my face because that just does not sound like Keith.
00:44:32
Speaker
No, but Cell said that because of his childhood trauma that I'll tell you about here in a bit, he said that this request set him off and that he had actually left the trailer to wait until what he called the right time and then had gone in to kill them all. When is there ever a right time to murder a woman that's seven and a half months pregnant and her three year old son? There's not, there's not.
00:45:01
Speaker
when he was asked by journalist Becky Malkovich why he had killed the whole family, right? Because if he's saying like it was Keith who propositioned him, here's what he said, quote, one of the Texas Rangers said it was due to self preservation because she knew who I was, but I don't think that's part of it. I was just so pissed off that I took it to the maximum limit. Rage don't have a stop button. End quote. Okay.
00:45:32
Speaker
And we've talked about this before too, Maggie. My problem is in his admission there. I don't know if you caught it, that law enforcement had insinuated a rationale for his behavior. And I mean, we talked about that in one of our previous episodes, how
00:45:52
Speaker
It's important to get the interrogation recorded as well because sometimes insinuation can have a huge consequence in terms of confessions. Yeah. And Anthony and I just recently watched a documentary about a case where like they didn't record anything except like the person's confession and they
00:46:14
Speaker
that they didn't do it but like you said like the questions were kind of misleading and then the questioning was so long that they just kind of gave in and I know we've talked about that before. Yeah.
00:46:27
Speaker
And in addition to that, the reasoning makes sells the victim in some ways and it plays on sympathies by saying like, because of childhood trauma, this triggered me. And okay, I am not implying that molestation does not have catastrophic and lifelong consequences for the victims, it does.
00:46:53
Speaker
What I am saying is that Sells is actually known for justifying his killings. In an interview in the St. Louis post-dispatch, Captain John Kemp actually told reporter Pat Gowan that Sells, quote, was known to tailor his stories to blame victims for provoking his temper, end quote. Wow. Yeah.
00:47:23
Speaker
So could this just be another example of that? It's like he's making it out to where he was the victim. Then Sells later changed his story and now instead of this invitation for a threesome that he previously said,
00:47:46
Speaker
he changed it to say that he had just happened to go by this trailer and see the for sale sign and knew that he had an opportunity for murder and that he had used this pretense of wanting a tour of the trailer, like acting like a potential buyer as a way to get in, which is again, scary. Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting ready to say. Like again,
00:48:12
Speaker
creepy, which I guess now we would be like, okay, contact my real estate agent. Right, right. Yeah. And you know, they were excited about selling it because that would mean they could move out of town. Right. So it is a possibility, but there's something about Keith and his protection of his family that I'll get to in a minute that makes me eliminate that possibility.
00:48:41
Speaker
When asked for more details about how the crime was committed, how the crime scenes were left, Sells was correct in the details that have been most commonly seen in the media. However, when he was asked about details that were not public knowledge, Sells was more inconsistent. For example, Maggie, when he was asked about how he had left Elaine's body,
00:49:06
Speaker
He first answered incorrectly and then was like, oh, I mean, and then he answered correctly. So like, could he have just been guessing? I feel like that's something you would remember. Yeah. Like out of everything in this case, that's the most memorable to memorable to me. The fact that you tucked in Elaine and the kids.
00:49:28
Speaker
Yeah, so it doesn't make sense that that detail is inconsistent. And additionally, he swore that he was in one particular seat in Keith's car when he said he shot Keith. But the blood spatter evidence proved that that was a lie, that he couldn't have been in the seat that he said he was in. Well, maybe like I know he had mentioned
00:49:50
Speaker
Um, he did drugs and stayed high. So maybe he was just really out of it and thought he was in one seat, but was really in another. I mean, it could, that could be true. I guess the question is, is this enough ambiguity and embellishment to rule him out completely? Law enforcement didn't think so. Despite the fact that cells had actually lied in previous confessions. Hmm.
00:50:19
Speaker
Yeah. So, for example, Sells had confessed to the killing in 1998 of Sherry and Meghan Shearer, but DNA actually proved that he was lying.
00:50:34
Speaker
And John McCormick's article in the Dallas Observer about Sells cited an interview with Victor Garcia, who was Sells court-appointed lawyer. And here's what Garcia noted about Sells' confessions, quote,
00:50:51
Speaker
The Ranger found out he wasn't being truthful. I think he tried to play the Henry Lee Lucas game. He told me that Henry Lee Lucas had gotten a life term by confessing to crimes he hadn't done, and he was going to do that too. He told me he was trying to save his life by making things up."
00:51:15
Speaker
Okay so obviously I'm not a lawyer so I don't know but like in this case what do you do as a lawyer when you know your client is lying about murder confessions? I mean that's a good question and I don't know because I mean obviously there's
00:51:40
Speaker
attorney-client privilege, but then at the same time you're swearing an oath to tell the truth. I would assume that they couldn't say anything, but gosh, that's a good question.
00:51:54
Speaker
So any sleuth hound lawyers out there, we need to know. Wandering minds want to know. That's right. And so, yeah, I guess it begs the question though, like, was this confession real or was it just this made up sadistic attempt to stay his execution?
00:52:21
Speaker
Maggie, we will never know for sure because Sells never got the opportunity to work with police to show them whether or not he knew the area. He also said he could lead them to other pieces of key evidence, but Texas authorities refuse to allow Sells to go because state law in Texas doesn't allow inmates on death row to leave the state.
00:52:51
Speaker
just find that weird like even in cases when this could prove it could solve a family homicide you're not gonna let him leave like it's not like they're gonna keep him they can texas could have him back
00:53:06
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I guess maybe there's always a possibility that something could go wrong and that a prisoner could escape. And maybe somebody is dangerous as cells, you know, with the potential of having committed upwards of 70 murders. True. Maybe that's just a risk they weren't willing to take.
00:53:26
Speaker
But Sells was put to death by lethal injection in 2014. Oh, so like we literally will never know. It's just that it's not just the fact they wouldn't let him leave, but like he's gone now. Right. Yeah, we will never know.
00:53:41
Speaker
At first, Keith's mom, Joanne, strongly believed that Sells was indeed the culprit, but over the years, Maggie, she's begun to doubt herself. And in an interview with Jim Sur for Shaw Local, Joanne stated, quote, Tommy deserved to die for what he did, but I wanted him to stay alive until I know positively that he didn't do it. End quote.
00:54:12
Speaker
And I get that, like, I would get wanting to know 100% for sure. Like, this is who killed my family, not like, maybe he killed my family, we're not really sure. Like, I would want to know for sure. Right. So what I figure, Maggie, since we don't have a clear answer, that we'll look at the crime and you and I can try to unpack it as much as possible. Let's do it. Okay. So first, let's start with Keith.
00:54:41
Speaker
His death, to me, does seem like it could be linked to cells for the reason that I hinted at earlier, his childhood trauma. And I haven't shared with you all the details of that yet, but that would explain why cells became so angry with the world.
00:55:05
Speaker
He actually claimed that his proclivity for violence stemmed from that childhood trauma. He noted in an interview with Becky Malkovich, quote, no one ever tried to help me. When your mother gives you to a pedophile, where's the help? And what in the right mind mother lets her seven year old boy sleep at a single man's house for years and thinks it's a healthy, okay thing?
00:55:33
Speaker
Between ages 7 and 14, replays over and over and over in my mind. It don't quit. The pain don't stop. It's still there. I can't sleep a whole night without waking up with it. My mind is like a mirror and somebody's taking a hammer to it, he said. Seems like after 7, I just became numb. I became a dark soul. I think every time I've killed someone, I've killed that person." Talking about his abuser.
00:56:03
Speaker
Okay. So I think anybody hearing that quote, your heart breaks for this person, regardless of the heinous things that they've done. Yeah. Like you still feel bad. Like I still feel bad for him in this circumstance. And like, I don't want this to come off in the wrong way because I don't know how to put like really into words, like what I'm trying to say, but like,
00:56:30
Speaker
Like you have to learn coping mechanisms and coping skills, even for something this bad, like childhood, you know, like pedophile and all that stuff. Like you still have to be able to cope with that to be able to be a functioning member of society as difficult as that coping may be. Right. I mean, yeah, because there can be multiple victims. The perpetrator can be a victim as well.
00:57:00
Speaker
but it still doesn't excuse the crime that's committed. Exactly, yes. So because of that childhood trauma, the act of mutilating Keith would make sense to me psychologically because as we talked about Maggie, castration is a very personal act. It's emasculating, it's intentional, and it's almost like
00:57:30
Speaker
psychologically an act that cells might be making where he says, you know, things like that aren't going to hurt me anymore. Yeah, but especially with the last sentence where he said that every time he kills someone, he kills his abuser. Right. Like that makes that fit.
00:57:47
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, he mentioned also that he was often high on drugs. And I mean, I suppose that that marijuana that was found in the trailer could have been his. Yeah, maybe just dropped out of his pocket or something like that. Right. And additionally,
00:58:05
Speaker
what cells used to commit his murders didn't really fall into a pattern. One law enforcement officer actually called him an opportunist because he would kill with whatever was readily available. So whether that was his hands, a gun, a knife, an ice pick, whatever. So
00:58:24
Speaker
we can't dismiss the Dardene family as a crime that he couldn't have committed because he didn't really have a standard killing method to compare so it's not like he always strangled his victims and yet the Dardene family suffered from gunshot wounds. Do you know what I mean? Yeah and which isn't that kind of odd that he would be a serial killer but use different methods each time aren't they pretty
00:58:51
Speaker
Like all the ones we've talked about, I mean, have been pretty much consistent. Yeah. Yeah. He's the, well, I think with Israel keys, that's someone who we haven't talked about on our show, but I'm fairly certain he also used different methods. So I'm not sure, but it does, I guess what I can't explain away. If cells is the killer.
00:59:21
Speaker
is that Keith allowed him in. So I also hinted at this fact earlier, Maggie, that Keith was very protective of his family. And remember, he wanted to move because of the increased violence. And he was someone, and I read this in several articles, a young woman had knocked on the trailer door and asked if she could use the phone and Keith wouldn't even let her in.
00:59:49
Speaker
because his protective instinct kicked in over his family and so I don't see him denying entry to a young woman but then willingly inviting a young male stranger into the house. Well I do agree with you there but then I'm wondering like when they met
01:00:08
Speaker
at Mount Vernon and maybe they had like you know some common interests because I could picture like Rodney because he's like such a big people person and like I feel like he's someone who could talk to anyone like if he met somebody in a town that you guys live in that he didn't know which would be rare because I feel like yeah
01:00:29
Speaker
Yeah, I do feel like though if he like had common interests with him, I could totally see Rodney just being the top person that would be like, well, come on over for dinner tonight. Allison's cooking like salmon patties and like him calling you up and being like, hey, we're having company. Right. Yeah. And you know, since the Dardines were churchgoers and
01:00:51
Speaker
I mentioned before, obviously Tommy Lynn Sells could play any role because, you know, he's committing all these crimes even before he had joined the church and then continued to commit the murders. And so obviously he could act like he was a Christian man. And so, I mean, could it be the case, I guess, that
01:01:14
Speaker
maybe that's how he tried to come across to Keith and maybe Keith felt like they had that common connection of religion and had invited him in. And then I do think all that stuff about a threesome, that is total embellishment. Like there's no way. 100% not true. Yeah. Yeah. And what also doesn't fit to me with Selz being the killer is the rest of
01:01:42
Speaker
the crime. I mean, the crime scene at the trailer doesn't fit. Number one, okay, Sells did not have a standard method of killing, but it also was not Sells' MO to stick around after committing a murder to clean up like the perpetrator did in this case. So sure, he had proven himself to be careful. Think of how many murders he had committed before he was caught. Exactly, like 70.
01:02:10
Speaker
Yeah. And that article in the Dallas Observer by John McCormick stated that Sells was quote, a savvy, merciless killer, rarely leaving behind as much as a fingerprint, let alone an eye witness, end quote. And so I guess from what I could gather though, that had more to do with steps that Sells took while committing the crime. And never before, like we see in the Dardine case,
01:02:39
Speaker
with cells sticking around long enough afterward to clean up the crime scene. Yeah. And I feel like while your weapon may change, I still feel like those types of habits, like leaving right after those would be like what I said, like a habit, it would be habitual. I don't think that would change.
01:02:58
Speaker
Yeah. And number two, the detail I cannot get out of my head is the fact that the bodies had been placed in a bed together and tucked in. Yeah. I mean that to me, like we've said this whole time, it's just so personal. So it's just so like, like it makes me think of like my mom taking me in as a little kid.
01:03:22
Speaker
Yeah. And, and that's my problem with it, I think, because, I mean, if I'm going to psychoanalyze cells, which I am not a clinically trained psychologist, psychiatrist, this is just me as a sleuthound. This is what I'm thinking. If Keith's death is psychologically symbolic, right? The castration because of his anger toward
01:03:51
Speaker
the molester of his childhood. In his statement that I read to you Maggie, he seemed just as angry if not more so at his mother for allowing that to happen.
01:04:05
Speaker
And so because the act of tucking in, I mean, okay, let's forget about the fact that they were savagely beaten. Just the act of tucking in is a very tender act. Like you said, it makes you think of your mom. And I feel like if Keith's death is symbolic, to fit, I would think that Elaine's would be as well.
01:04:32
Speaker
And somebody who's so angry with his own mother, I guess it seems off to me that the mother would be carefully tucked into bed, tenderly left. Which, I guess that even if you have a really horrible mother, deep down, you still love your mom.
01:04:59
Speaker
because she's your mother. So maybe he did take it out on Elaine by beating her and then the tucking her in was because you still, like I said, love your mom deep down, even if they were like a horrible parent. So maybe this is symbolic of what he wishes he had because it's a mother with her children. Yeah, maybe.
01:05:25
Speaker
So when I was doing all this research I became very curious and I did a little research and I'm telling you if people didn't know us Maggie and they saw our search history they would think that we are the demented ones.
01:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't remember the case that we did. This was not long ago, like little do you all know, and I don't know if we've said this before, but sometimes Allison and I record online and sometimes we record together in the parking lot of the Starbucks near our homes. But this one was at the parking lot in Starbucks and the murderer had like
01:06:04
Speaker
files of serial killer research. And the police thought that was so weird. And I'm like, well, we're there. Not so weird after all. That's us. I know. Yeah, that's exactly us. I think that was actually the Haley Dunn case. Yeah. And that just dropped not too long ago. So yeah, I think you're correct. It was Haley Dunn that her stepfather had researched the serial killer.
01:06:33
Speaker
Right. And we were like totally normal. What are you talking about? Everyone does that. Right. But I did find some new research when I was doing my little look up for this week. And I wanted to tell you what I found because I find it fascinating.
01:06:52
Speaker
So I knew going in that the act of covering up a body after a murder is generally a signal that the perpetrator knew the victim. Like after they commit the crime, they can't stand seeing someone they know in that condition. But in my research about
01:07:12
Speaker
the covering up about the death even of a newborn, I found two super interesting pieces of information. So the first, I found out that the act of covering actually has a term associated with it. It is known as the undoing.
01:07:39
Speaker
And in the book, Crime Classification Manual by Douglas Burris Burris and Wrestler, lots of names there, lots of names, lots of scholars. It states that the undoing is when a perpetrator does things like washes up or
01:07:58
Speaker
cleans the victim's body or engages in activities like covering up either partially or completely the victim's body. So just like the sucking ends. So I definitely thought when you said undoing, like you were mentally being undone, like this is your undoing, not like covering up things, like, you know, cleaning up the crime at the top of undoing.
01:08:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like they're trying to undo the crime that they've just committed. Makes total sense now. Yeah, and that manual said that they do that not because the perpetrator is, quote, attempting to hide the victim, but because he may be feeling some degree of remorse, end quote. And that pronoun he was the one in the manual. Obviously, it could have been she.
01:08:55
Speaker
I think they were just using the universal he there. But it did say like I knew that those who engage in that active undoing are most frequently in cases where there's a personal relationship between the victim and the perpetrator. But here's what I found fascinating Maggie. Are you ready? Yes. Okay.
01:09:19
Speaker
The textbook example in the manual is that of a son who stabbed his mother, but here's where it gets interesting. He changes her clothes, places her on a couch with her head on a pillow and covers her with a blanket like she's sleeping. Okay, so basically the case we're covering today
01:09:48
Speaker
precisely. Yeah. So again, that would seem to indicate that the perpetrator is someone close to them, someone who knows them, which obviously cells didn't.
01:10:04
Speaker
Hmm. The second bit of research that I found interesting is this. I was looking at some psychological studies concerning who might be more likely to commit this heinous of a crime. I would have initially believed, and I know this is a gendered comment, so let me preface by saying that I can't imagine a man or a woman killing a newborn.
01:10:34
Speaker
But it seems slightly less likely in my mind that a woman would commit that killing. And I think that I definitely think I agree with you because I feel like we have that motherly instinct to protect a newborn. Right. But Maggie, we would be wrong. What?
01:10:56
Speaker
Yes. According to an article in Psychology Today titled The Unique Motives of Female Serial Killers, which cited the journal Criminal Behavior and Mental Health, it said, quote, unlike male serial killers who usually target unknown victims,
01:11:15
Speaker
Females tend to kill men who are emotionally and physically closest to them, particularly husbands or lovers, and they generally kill to improve their lifestyle. However, victims of female serial killers are not confined to male husbands or lovers. An important psychological study of 86
01:11:39
Speaker
Female serial killers in the US found that their victims Also included children and the elderly end quote Wow, I know I would I would have never I wouldn't have thought that me either So Maggie, you know, I like to psychoanalyze and I like to Like pull it all together as much as I can and give you about 20 questions to think about but in my mind I
01:12:08
Speaker
I think there are three primary takeaways from all of this. First, both the crimes we talked about this seem very personal. I think Keith's is personal because of the injury. And I think Elaine, Peter and Casey's deaths are personal because of the undoing. And if the perpetrator stayed around long enough to clean up,
01:12:38
Speaker
then that meant to me that they knew the family enough to know that no one else was coming. Yeah. I think that they would have to know the family schedule. Like no one really maybe comes to their house between this time and this time on this day or their home normally from this time to this time. Right. And Sells was a stranger. So to me, while that doesn't rule him out completely, it just doesn't fit. Yeah.
01:13:07
Speaker
Number two takeaway is that the perpetrator could have been a woman. Definitely. And number three, and here's my like litany of questions. In my opinion, it makes sense to assume that there are two or more killers.
01:13:25
Speaker
Okay, that's my thinking because I just can't figure out any explanation why there would be two different crime scenes. Well, I do think that
01:13:40
Speaker
Okay. So here's my thoughts. So I didn't think that it makes sense that there would be two killers because the killings between Elaine and the kids and Keith were so different. Like maybe Elaine's and the children happened at the same time as Keith, but you know, obviously in the two different locations. But then I'm thinking because, um,
01:14:05
Speaker
the man in question sells always you could use whatever type of instrument to kill people. Maybe it could have been him. True. I guess. Okay. So you're right. My, my two problematic areas are with the two crime scenes and then the two methods of killing with the crime scenes. I wonder if there's only one perpetrator, how that person would overtake two adults at once. Yeah, true.
01:14:34
Speaker
And if they knew that they were going to kill both Keith and Elaine, why not do it in one place? Which I mean, maybe they were like taking Keith to the bank to withdraw money from his account or something like that. That's a really good point.
01:14:52
Speaker
that I hadn't thought about that could be why but then why leave his car there but take his body to a more rural area like why not hide his car why leave it in plain sight where they have to walk away from it and also like
01:15:08
Speaker
his body was one mile away from the house but the car was 11 miles away from the house so like did you drop him off in the middle of this field and if so like how'd you get his body there and then two you just decided that a bank that has obvious surveillance cameras was the perfect place for you to park his car and walk away yeah like none of that makes sense at all
01:15:30
Speaker
And like you said, Maggie, my other problem and the other reason why I think there could be two or more killers is because of the two very different deaths of Keith versus his wife and children because Keith's death by gunshot to the head was quick. And the deaths by beating were far more drawn out. And if not for the castration, I would say far more brutal. Yes, agreed. Definitely.
01:16:01
Speaker
And I guess where my confusion lies is the act of separating the crime scene of taking Keith out of the home and the castration almost makes it seem to me like he was the primary target.
01:16:20
Speaker
But then if so, why the harsher brutalization of Elaine and the children? Right. Because I feel like if he were the target, like you just take him out of the house and you shoot him and you're done. Like why kill his family? Like I almost feel like if this was to target Keith, like we talked about earlier, like you would kill his family as a punishment to him. You know what I mean? So like, I don't get it. And
01:16:50
Speaker
Another question is,
01:16:53
Speaker
If there's only one perpetrator and he or she has a gun, which obviously they do because that was the murder weapon with Keith, why didn't they use the gun on the other victims? Like why use the baseball bat? Exactly because I feel like beating someone with a baseball bat is equivalent of stabbing someone like as far as like how personal that is. Like you're mad at somebody for something if you stab them or beat them to death with a baseball bat.
01:17:21
Speaker
Right. Plus it does take longer too. So again, it just goes into that idea that whoever is committing that crime did not feel rushed. I just, this whole case. I know. And so in my mind, if there were two separate killers, then and only then do the two separate locations and the two very different methods of killing make more sense. I agree. Yeah, definitely.
01:17:53
Speaker
Tommy Lynn Sells has been ranked by forensic psychiatrist Michael Stone on his most evil scale, right up there with Jeffrey Dahmer, who was known to eat his victims. As for the Dardeen family, though, they're not convinced that Sells' evil acts extended to their family. Sells may have been the perpetrator, but there's also the possibility that whomever committed the outrageous crime is still out there.
01:18:23
Speaker
among us. That's why fear can feel so palpable. Because when we don't know answers, we speculate, and that speculation can lead us to any potential resolution. Keith's friend Bill Reed told reporter Kathy Sweeney that for him, quote, it's not a question of who did it. It's the why they did it. I need that why, end quote.
01:18:52
Speaker
I think we all do. It's hard to trust when we don't know why evil exists, when we don't understand why it grows, nor how it chooses its victims. Here's what I want to stress to you though, Sleuthhounds. It's hard, but it is still doable to bring hospitality back down off of that dusty shelf where fear often places it.
01:19:22
Speaker
Sells had told a reporter that the words love and sorry were not in his vocabulary, that he tried never to use them.
01:19:32
Speaker
But those are the very words we need to use more often, and particularly so to people like Joanne. Indeed, to all families of lost loved ones. They need to hear that we are sorry for their loss, that we are all in this together, and that we will continue to show them love by telling their loved one's story. We need to acknowledge their loss caused by evil, yes.
01:20:02
Speaker
But we need to show them that love can be an even stronger force.
01:20:08
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
01:20:38
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.