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E080: Michelle Von Emster
1.5k Plays5 years ago
Could it really be the case that Michelle Von Emster had survived cancer and escaped a stalker, only to be the victim of a fatal shark attack? This week, Allison and Maggie delve into the theories and questions surrounding this case and why perhaps Michelle’s official cause of death deserves another look.
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Transcript
Starting a Podcast with Buzzsprout
00:00:00
Speaker
Sleuthhounds, have you ever considered creating your own podcast? Have you been inspired by listening to some of your favorites and thought, I'd love to try this out on my own, whether it's a true crime podcast like ours, a motivational podcast, or maybe one filled with tips and strategies for those interested in the same activities you are?
00:00:21
Speaker
When Maggie and I first decided to start our podcast, we knew absolutely nothing about what podcasting would entail. But when we found that the platform Buzzsprout was one for which we didn't need any special equipment, just a computer microphone, some quiet space, and each other, we knew that this was the way to go. It is intuitive to use, fun to play around with, and so helpful in getting analytical data about our number of downloads to track trends and from where our listeners hail.
00:00:51
Speaker
Best yet, Buzzsprout is affordable, even by our teacher salary standards. Buzzsprout will get your podcasts listed on every major podcasting platform. So what are you waiting for? Fulfill that dream of yours and start today.
00:01:07
Speaker
If you use our Coffee and Cases referral code, 709-643, linked on Facebook and in our show notes, not only will you help support our show, but you will receive a $20 Amazon gift card after your second month on a paid plan. It's that easy. Podcasting isn't hard when you have the right partners.
00:01:28
Speaker
Join over 100,000 podcasters already using Buzzsprout to get their message out to the world. Now it's time for the world to hear what you have to say.
Oceanic Fears and Vacation Memories
00:01:39
Speaker
Two years ago, while on vacation, my little sleuthound and I looked out at the ocean from the condo balcony, and we saw dolphins swim along the Florida coast, jumping at just the right moments to evoke gasps from us as their sides glistened in the morning sun. It was magical.
00:02:02
Speaker
But as we watched them also swim underwater, just feet away from the few individuals who were already waiting in the ocean that morning, who were blissfully unaware of the presence of any sea life, my mind took a darker turn. What if what we're swimming right by weren't a sweet dolphin-like flipper, but the dorsal fin of a shark?
00:02:29
Speaker
It's honestly why I don't go in the ocean water past my waist. I definitely wouldn't drift out farther than my ability to touch the bottom. And that's during the day. The thought of a night swim? Well, that's out of the question. My imagination would create terrors never seen by the human eye that could come out of the dark ocean waters and attack. What's interesting about my fears though,
00:02:57
Speaker
is that they're located in the water, the sandy shore beaches being the image of safety. But what if there were danger both places? With which danger would I take my chances?
Mission and Gratitude of Coffee and Cases
00:03:14
Speaker
This is the story of Michelle Vaughn Emster.
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:54
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the case will take those tips to law enforcement so justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:04:14
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, and to follow us on Instagram at Coffee Cases podcast and on TikTok at Coffee and Cases podcast. Because as these families know, conversation helps to keep their missing family member and the public consciousness helping to keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
Inspirational Goals of the Hosts
00:04:42
Speaker
Before we start the episode this week, I just want to thank our listeners. Maggie and I are just so incredibly blessed and thankful for you. Some of you are new to the podcast and you wrote us amazing reviews this past week. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. I'm telling you that Maggie and I text each other and we get so excited.
00:05:06
Speaker
And like I said before, we squeal. And then others who have been with us from the very beginning, you're still liking and commenting on our posts. And that just makes us, I mean, we get excited about that too. I'm not gonna lie. So we're just so thankful for each and every one of you. Keep getting the word out there about the show so that people can be aware of these lesser known cases that Maggie and I cover.
00:05:34
Speaker
And Sluice Hounds just hold out hope that doing so does make a difference. And I wanted to tell you about my new goal, which I haven't even told you about yet, Maggie. Oh, OK. So this past week, I was helping our yearbook instructor by looking through the senior quotes from our graduates. And I came across this one, and it just stood out to me.
Introduction to Michelle Von Emster's Case
00:06:03
Speaker
The quote was from director James Cameron and it said, if you set your goals ridiculously high and it's a failure, you will fail above everyone else's success. Well, I love that. I do too, because I mean, it just like promotes that idea of if you set your goals so high, like,
00:06:32
Speaker
Failing isn't even really a failure Yeah, it's like that one I think my mom has like a picture of me in my graduation Capping out from high school that says like shoot for the moon because even if you miss you land among the stars Yeah, that's actually you know just the same message in essence so here are my ridiculously high goals Number one
00:07:01
Speaker
that each of our listeners either shares about our podcast on social media this week. So like post it on your personal page, post it on that true crime group that you're in, or tells a friend about our show. Yes. I feel like that's doable. I agree. Goal number two is that we get on podcast magazines hot 50 list of top podcasts.
00:07:31
Speaker
This one is a little bit more locked. I would literally die. I would too. I mean, I might just keel over right there because I'd be so excited. Yeah. Yeah, same. If you would take listeners one minute, because that's all it's going to take of your time.
00:07:50
Speaker
Google Podcast Magazine Hot 50 Voting. That's all you've got to do. Google Podcast Magazine Hot 50 Voting. It will take you straight to the page. You just type your little message of Coffee and Cases podcast and you do not have to subscribe. Just leave that checkbox empty and that's it.
00:08:19
Speaker
So Maggie, those are my goals and call me optimistic. I think we can do it. I do too. I think they're doable. Okay. Now into something a little bit darker this week's episode. So I mentioned sharks in my introduction, Maggie, and this week's case has got them.
Michelle's Life and Last Days
00:08:43
Speaker
That makes me a little anxious.
00:08:45
Speaker
Oh, no. I just saw actually one of my past students had a post on Facebook this week. And I almost mentioned her in the podcast episode, but it was like this fear of the deep. And it had pictures of like, you know, a swimmer there and they're like right below their feet as a shark coming up. So yeah, this week's episode does have sharks. It also has stalkers.
00:09:15
Speaker
odd poems. And as always from the question queen myself, more questions than answers. Okay, sounds like a good one. And this case is actually considered a closed case. But I'm not quite so convinced. Okay, I'm ready. Okay, I do want to also say, because of the gruesome nature of the injuries,
00:09:44
Speaker
listener discretion is advised. Michelle Von Imster, Maggie was a California girl through and through. She was born in 1968. And she grew up in San Carlos, which is right outside of San Francisco. She was one of five girls. Wow. And the family. I've always wanted to visit California. I've not made it out there yet.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah, Anthony and I, because, you know, we've decided to go on vacation this year because we'll be fully vaccinated and we haven't been in a long time and I just need to get out of the state of Kentucky for a little bit. And we looked at possibly going to California, but then we were like,
00:10:30
Speaker
or we'll go to Cancun. We're like Cancun. Well, Michelle, after high school, she attended St. Mary's College, but it was while she was there that she was diagnosed with leukemia.
00:10:47
Speaker
While she did drop out of school because of her illness, according to an article in the LA Times from April 19th, 1994, Michelle did win her battle with cancer. That's like one of my deep fears. So we're just touching on all kinds of fears this week.
00:11:11
Speaker
So that's exciting though. So she was in remission and her radiation treatments had ended. And it just kind of sounded like to me, she just wanted to live life. And who can blame her? Oh, I know. I think with an experience like that, especially at a young age, it would make you question your life's trajectory, meaning, everything.
00:11:38
Speaker
In the fall of 1992, she hit the road towards San Diego and she landed in Loma Portal.
00:11:48
Speaker
Over the course of the next couple of years, Maggie, Michelle kind of lived like this bohemian lifestyle. Okay. So she did hold down jobs, but she moved from one place to another. And each place that she moved got a little bit cheaper and a little bit more seedy than the one before, mostly because
00:12:14
Speaker
She wanted to get closer and closer to the beach and you know that stuff's not G. No, it is not. Yeah. So the closer she got to the beach.
00:12:23
Speaker
the cheaper the place became so you could tell what kind of, it was getting in worse and worse neighborhoods. So for Michelle, her final stop was a two bedroom apartment on Muir Avenue in an area of Ocean Beach that she shared with another young woman named Coco Campbell. Oh, Coco. Cool name, I know.
00:12:46
Speaker
This particular area where they lived was nicknamed the war zone. Oh, so I bet it was a fantastic neighborhood. Just imagine what type of activity generally went on there. I mean, crime, drugs, all of it. They had it. But rent was cheap and Michelle was by the ocean.
00:13:06
Speaker
They got away the pros and cons there. Exactly. And being by the ocean appealed to her free spirit, as did the butterfly tattoo that she had on the back of her right shoulder, on her shoulder blade. And I mentioned before that Michelle held down jobs. They were minimum wage jobs, but that was all she needed. Since she didn't own a car,
00:13:35
Speaker
She didn't have to afford things like insurance and gas and repairs and car payments and all of that, just rent and food. Oh, yeah. So she probably made ends meet pretty well. Yes, even with just a minimum wage job. She had actually just recently taken a new job at Cabrillo stationery and office supply. Oh, Alison, that sounds like something you would love. I know. I mean, I read that and I was like,
00:14:04
Speaker
That's a good job. When she showed up for the interview for the position, she actually wrote on the application that she was quote, very interested in art.
Conflicting Accounts of Michelle's Last Night
00:14:17
Speaker
And her reason for leaving her previous job at Rumors Coffee Shop, I mean, yet another good job in my opinion. But the reason for leaving that previous job was that she worked nights there.
00:14:32
Speaker
And she had begun to get nervous because a guy was stalking her. Oh no, that's weird. I would also have left that job. Yes. She never gave anyone a name, not even to her friend. So I don't even know if she knew his name, but she did tell everyone that he rode a motorcycle.
00:14:54
Speaker
So she wanted to find a job where she could switch to a daytime position and that was at someplace different because she was hoping that she would get this man to leave her alone. Don't blame her. I don't either. And it's not surprising to me that no one in her life knew the name of the stalker or really any other details about him because even though Michelle liked to live life one day at a time, she also seemed pretty private
00:15:25
Speaker
And I say that because in an article in the San Diego Reader by David Goode,
00:15:32
Speaker
He noted all of the inconsistencies about Michelle's life that her acquaintances later told reporters. Quote, their accounts rarely jibed. She was a health food purist or she partied and drank and smoked cigarettes. She'd had leukemia or was it Hodgkin's lymphoma? She had a C-section scar or she'd had an abortion.
00:16:00
Speaker
She meditated daily on the beach or she feared the ocean. All of them or none of them could have been true with one exception. Von Emster, in fact, loved the ocean." So it just kind of shows like even her friends and acquaintances, like no one really knew her. There were like conflicting accounts everywhere.
00:16:30
Speaker
And that makes me think she was very private. Yeah, because no one knows the true story. Yeah, it wouldn't be like me where every single person is like, oh, she wears high heels every day. Yeah. She loves coffee. They know this about me. Yeah, they love donuts. Right. We talk about Krispy Kreme every episode. Another item that Michelle was private about was her dating life.
00:16:59
Speaker
though she had just recently gone out with a man who had been interested in her for a while since back in February 1994 when she worked at Rumors Coffee Shop.
00:17:15
Speaker
And he worked at Winston's a bar owned by the same person as the coffee shop owner and there were back doors of each one of those establishments faced one another and that man Edwin Decker.
00:17:29
Speaker
told reporter David Goode that he would frequently stop by rumors to pick up a coffee before his shift at the bar.
Discovery of Michelle's Body and Initial Findings
00:17:36
Speaker
And that when he saw Michelle, he was instantly drawn to her. She was soft, feminine, smart, and smelled like patchouli. So she was a real hippie when he was just drawn to that. So she had finally agreed to go out on a date with him on April 13,
00:18:00
Speaker
1994. But two days later, she was found dead. Oh my. It's what happened Maggie in those last 48 hours of life that we're trying to piece together. Edwin says that on the night of the 13th was when they went out, though they'd been flirting for weeks.
00:18:26
Speaker
He says they went out for drinks and then went back to his apartment. And he recalls that they were drinking and then making out at his place until around 5am on the 14th because of the events of that evening.
00:18:43
Speaker
Decker said he thought he and Michelle had a connection. Specifically, he stated, quote, there was a total intellectual connection. I felt there was an emotional connection too, at least on my part there was. And we also had a physical connection. I was so bummed when a couple of days went by and she hadn't called. I was about to give up on the idea, end quote.
00:19:10
Speaker
He said that after that night that they shared when she didn't call, he was kind of upset, like thinking he had maybe misread the situation and maybe Michelle just wasn't into him like he thought. But was she dead is why she didn't call? Correct.
00:19:29
Speaker
In a blog post with the Southern California Writers Conference, Edwin Decker himself told about the night of the 13th in a post called Open and Shut, Revisiting the Mysterious Death of Michelle Von Imster. He said the night began at Winston's, which was a bar where he worked, right, on Ocean Beach, and that the two of them were drinking.
00:19:56
Speaker
eventually around midnight, and remember this is on the 13th, so into the morning hours of the 14th, they decided to go back to his place after stopping to get some cigarettes and some more alcohol. At first, he said there was just talking and flirting, but then he said in his post, quote, at one point, she let me take off her shirt so I could see the large butterfly tattoo on her right shoulder blade.
00:20:26
Speaker
after which we kissed and fondled each other until well past dawn." End quote. Well, I'm glad you guys can stay up till 5 a.m. because when it's like 11 30, I'm like, we've got to go to bed. Right. Yeah. And when I read that statement, Maggie, I mean, all of that might be true and it might be honest. I just find the word fondled creepy. It's weird. It's like, I don't know.
00:20:56
Speaker
To say that they weren't intimate to me sounds mature and respectful and just the word fondled. I can't get past that word. Well, I feel like you can say what he said in a more dignified manner than the word fondled. Fondled makes me think of like,
00:21:22
Speaker
I feel like they would use the word fondled to describe like a sexual assault. Right. Yeah. Like a touch that is unwarranted and unwanted. Yeah. So he said after this fondling until 5am.
00:21:43
Speaker
that she left. Then he said after she left, he was thinking about the next time that they would go out again, but it was like she had, if I put it in today's teenager's terms like my students used, like she had ghosted him. She left him on red. He left him on red. That's right, because he didn't hear from her the whole next day. He believed that she was supposed to go to a concert the next night with her roommate,
00:22:11
Speaker
And here's where I read two different accounts of the 14th. Neither of these accounts could I fully verify. So who knows if either one or the other is the complete truth, but I'll present them both and then we can discuss. Okay. In version one, Coco and Michelle did attempt to attend a concert on the 14th.
00:22:41
Speaker
Most believe it was a Pink Floyd concert. Side note, my kind of concert. Love Pink Floyd. But that they had the wrong tickets, so they weren't allowed in.
Questioning the Shark Attack Conclusion
00:22:56
Speaker
In this version, Michelle and Coco, because remember Michelle doesn't own a car.
00:23:03
Speaker
They headed back to their apartment after they were turned away at the concert. But along the way, Michelle asked to be dropped off near the sunset cliffs, wanting to like take in some evening air.
00:23:18
Speaker
Even though it was a bit chilly that night, Coco told law enforcement that she dropped Michelle off at Sunset Cliffs Park, which is six blocks from their apartment, and that she was clad in her green trench coat and she had her purse with her, and that Coco then drove the rest of the way home. In another version of events, Michelle did attend the concert. Now,
00:23:48
Speaker
I'll tell you this information I actually got from a comment that was made on Edwin Decker's blog post. So the man Edwin who she went on the date with wrote that blog post about Michelle and one of the actually two separate comments
00:24:09
Speaker
One was an old roommate of and the second one was the brother of a man by the name of Jason Doocy. And both of the commenters, the old roommate of Jason and Jason's brother, seemed to indicate that Michelle had also been going out with Jason. So Edwin and Jason.
00:24:38
Speaker
Yes. And I don't know if either one was serious, you know? Yeah. Jason's brother, Nathan, indicated that what you'll find out happened here in just a moment, Maggie, haunted Jason until his passing in 2015. The other post by Jason's old roommate Scott conveyed the details about Jason and Michelle that he had always heard.
00:25:09
Speaker
Scott stated that he was under the impression that Michelle and Jason did attend the Pink Floyd concert that night, but that they were also tripping on LSD. So on the way back from the concert, Michelle had wanted to go skinny dipping, but Jason had said he didn't want to.
00:25:30
Speaker
Scott's rumored account ends there, so I don't know if this story had Jason dropping Michelle off at Sunset Cliffs, or if Coco had been with the two of them, in which case, obviously, Coco could verify who was there, if they did LSD, and what, if anything, Michelle said before getting dropped off. But I'm more inclined to believe the first version, Coco's version, because
00:26:00
Speaker
Most sources indicated that the last verified sighting of Michelle was around 8 p.m. on the 14th with her purse and a green trench coat, and no concert is ending before 8 p.m. Yeah, usually they're just starting. Right, so that's why I'm more inclined to believe Coco's version. And Sleuthounds, please bear with me as I'm talking. I have allergies and I've been sneezing and coughing.
00:26:27
Speaker
Hopefully my voice normally sounds better than this. But the end result Maggie, no matter how Michelle got there or who she was with, is that Michelle ended up on Sunset Cliffs alone. But Michelle didn't come home that night. And so I'm guessing is Sunset Cliffs also in this really bad neighborhood? It's six blocks away. Okay, so on the edge, yeah.
00:26:57
Speaker
It wasn't until a few days after that date with Edwin Decker that something on the news piqued his interest. He heard the reporter on site where a woman's body had been pulled from the water the day before trying to identify the woman and noting a butterfly tattoo on the back of her right shoulder. Well, part
00:27:27
Speaker
of a butterfly tattoo. Since the rest had been, it seemed obvious, bitten off by a shark. Hours earlier, Maggie, on April 15th, 1994, two surfers who were out on an area of the beach known as South Garbage.
00:27:51
Speaker
And I read that it was called that because of the way the kelp would smell. But it was near sunset cliffs. That in the distance, they noticed a group of about six seagulls that were perched on something and pecking at something in the water. Curious what they were floating on, one surfer drew nearer, only to see that the seagulls, which flew away when he approached,
00:28:21
Speaker
had been perched on a body. Yes. The woman was face down in the water, her brown hair swaying with the current. She was completely naked, except for some rings and a bracelet. And it looked like she had been the victim of a violent shark attack, particularly by the bite marks on her posterior.
00:28:49
Speaker
and her severed right leg. So is this like something that's common in this area, shark attacks, or would this be like just really out of the norm? I'm glad you asked that. I think there's a misconception that shark attacks happen often. Yeah.
Public and Expert Reactions
00:29:07
Speaker
I read that, okay, and this is, again, I mentioned at the beginning whether she was really attacked by a shark is up for debate.
00:29:17
Speaker
Assuming that she were the last attack by someone or on someone by a great white shark off of this same beach was 50 years earlier. So not that common.
00:29:37
Speaker
These two surfers immediately notified authorities. The woman's body was taken to the Coast Guard headquarters where medic Robert Ingle made note that she had not been in the water long. And I guess he could tell because of like the wrinkling of her skin. But as for what happened to her, given the torn flesh, bite marks, missing leg, again, it seemed obvious.
00:30:06
Speaker
even though the coroner listed her cause of death as unknown. San Diego examiner Brian Blackburn, who was brought in to perform the autopsy, had never done an autopsy on a shark attack victim before. So again, that shows you how rare this is. So as I was saying a minute ago, despite the common fear, an actual attack
00:30:34
Speaker
not common, especially by a great white shark. And that's the only shark whose bite force at 4,000 pound force per square inch would be strong enough to remove her leg at the thigh as it was. I just didn't like not able to process this really. Yeah.
00:31:02
Speaker
But a great white is the only shark whose bite force is strong enough to have severed her leg. So even, okay, so I feel like shark attack is rare. By a great white shark, I feel like is even probably more rare? Correct. So, since Brian Blackburn had never done an autopsy on a shark attack victim before,
00:31:25
Speaker
He reached out to the Scripps Institute of Oceanography to speak with experts. Like, hey, can you give me some information on identifying victims of shark attacks? You know, that sort of thing. But they gave him the information without ever seeing the woman's body. So how could they confirm it if they didn't see it? I guess all they could do was give like normal telltale signs.
00:31:55
Speaker
OK, so the autopsy itself, Maggie actually noted the following additional injuries. And here's where it can get a little bit gruesome. Cuts and bruises on her face and body. A broken neck. A broken pelvis. Broken ribs. And sand in her mouth, throat,
00:32:25
Speaker
lungs and stomach. Okay, so I'm not like an ocean expert, but I think that sounds a little more than just a shark attack. And I think you would be right. But we'll get to that in just a second. Okay. I also think, you know, I told you there were the two versions of what happened that day of the 14th. I would think
00:32:54
Speaker
that a toxicology report would have also been done. Yeah, that would make sense. But I didn't read anything about it anywhere, which seems to indicate that either one wasn't done or that it didn't find anything to note, which would mean no LSD in her system, like the one rumored story would imply. Yes.
00:33:19
Speaker
In reconstructing a timeline of what happened to this young woman, because remember, they don't know who this is yet. In reconstructing that timeline, here is what they surmised based upon how long they thought that she had been in the water and on her injuries. And fair warning, this is going to sound like I'm reciting to you the opening scene of Jaws and at the same time will be very graphic.
00:33:49
Speaker
Blackburn speculated that the woman had decided to take a nude midnight swim in the ocean alone. Not long after, he speculates that she was attacked by a great white shark. The shark bit her right leg, drug her to the bottom of the ocean, where she was slammed on the ocean floor hard enough to break her neck, ribs, and pelvis.
00:34:17
Speaker
and that she had gasped right at that moment, hence the sand from the ocean floor in her mouth, throat, lungs, and stomach, because she would have been alive when those injuries occurred.
00:34:33
Speaker
But I guess I think what would have happened first though, like would she have died from blood loss first from the, you know, like severed arteries or would she have drowned first? Because I feel like the autopsy would know, you would know that, right? Well, her official cause, I guess I should say causes of death were blood loss from the shark having severed her femoral artery.
00:35:03
Speaker
internal hemorrhaging and drowning. Oh, so all of the above. All of the above. And post-mortem, so after she had already passed away, smaller blue sharks had scavenged her body, which explained the torn flesh on her buttocks, arms, back, and remaining leg. I can't even begin to imagine
00:35:28
Speaker
her in this scenario. It's just, I can't even, I can't, my mind can't wrap around it. It's very gruesome. Yes, it is. It was after the autopsy. So on Saturday night, April 16th, 1994, that a woman by the name of Denise Knox happened to be watching the 10 o'clock news when she heard the same report as Decker.
Alternative Theories to Sharks
00:35:53
Speaker
An unidentified woman had been pulled from the water.
00:35:58
Speaker
The one mark of her identity, a butterfly tattoo on her right shoulder. And Denise, Maggie, she seemed to feel immediately that this was Michelle Von Emster. And Denise would know because she owned Cabrillo Stationary and Office supplies where Michelle had just recently begun working. Yeah, I was about to ask you, like, who is this Denise lady? Yeah, how she know her. Yeah.
00:36:25
Speaker
She also knew that Michelle hadn't shown up for work on Friday, April 15th, or on that day, Saturday, April 16th. So you combine the fact that here's a woman with a butterfly tattoo and Michelle hadn't been showing up for work. She knew. When Denise spoke with a medical examiner,
00:36:48
Speaker
He asked her for further identifying details about Michelle that he could use. Because, I mean, obviously you can't just take someone's word. Right. You can't be like, oh, I know that person. If it were like, say, a cross tattoo. Yeah. According to the article by David Good and the San Diego Reader, she mentioned that Michelle didn't shave her legs nor under her arms. Because remember, she's like that free spirit hippie bohemian. Right.
00:37:16
Speaker
After that information, Denise Knox was asked to come to the morgue, where on the morning of the 17th, she was shown an image of the woman's face and positively identified the body as Michelle Von Imster, her 25-year-old employee. Now, anywhere in this episode, have we talked about Michelle's family? No, and I didn't read a whole lot about her family either.
00:37:46
Speaker
like either being involved with investigating cause of death or really much of anything.
00:37:54
Speaker
Oh, okay. Other than that, she was one of five girls. Right. After Michelle had been identified, it was all over the headlines. Michelle Von Emster, killed by shark. How to protect yourself against shark attacks. I mean, you can imagine all of the stories. But even though some news organization showed up at Knox's door asking questions and trying to like probe more into Michelle's life,
00:38:22
Speaker
Pretty much everyone had come to the same conclusion. Case closed, this was a shark attack. And that's how it's still classified as nothing more than a horrific accident. But Maggie, no shark expert.
00:38:43
Speaker
agrees with that finding. Oh. Both the Shark Research Committee and the International Shark Attack File leave Michelle's name out of their official records completely. So there's a list, apparently, of every person in the world who is bitten by a shark. That's weird, but OK. Her name's not in it.
00:39:12
Speaker
So the problem though is that if it wasn't a shark. What could it mean? Yeah. With no proof otherwise. And we don't know, but shark doesn't seem a highly probable answer either. And here's why those shark experts are like, nope, not a shark. First, as I mentioned earlier,
00:39:40
Speaker
A great white shark would have been the only shark strong enough to sever Michelle's leg. Right? Remember when I was telling you that? Yeah. But great whites have a typical behavior with their prey. First, the bite would generally have left teeth embedded in her skin. I mean, it's pretty common that people find shark teeth. Yes.
00:40:10
Speaker
And the reason why it's pretty common, even though shark attacks aren't common, is that most sharks lose several teeth with every single bite. Like they lose up to 40 teeth per week. Oh, I didn't know that. Right. And in Michelle's body, there were no teeth or teeth fragments from a great white. So that's problem number one.
00:40:39
Speaker
Problem number two, great white shark bites are clean, meaning if one had bitten Michelle's leg, it would have been a much more even injury. So I'm gonna bring in a gentleman and you'll hear his name later in the episode two. His name is Ralph Collier and he is, according to the Shark Research Institute,
00:41:09
Speaker
Director of the global shark attack file, which we didn't know was a thing until like until now. Yeah. He is founder and president of the shark research committee. Also didn't know that existed. Yep. And he has been referenced in over 300 articles concerning shark behavior. Wow. Okay. So we would tell our students, he is very credible. Yes. This man is an expert to say the least.
00:41:39
Speaker
Here's why I'm bringing him up. He told the San Diego Union Tribune that, quote, when a white shark bites off part of a limb, the break is clean, almost like you put it on a table saw. What remained of Michelle's femur was anything but.
00:42:03
Speaker
It looked like what happens when you get a piece of bamboo and whittle it down to a point with a knife. The bone came to a point. This type of injury is caused when a bone is twisted under a great deal of force. I've looked at close to 100 photos of cases that I've reviewed over the years and I've never seen any bones.
00:42:33
Speaker
that come to a point." So here's this expert, 300 articles he's referenced in. And these are like BBC National Geographic, like those sorts of publications. And in his expert opinion, if what happened to Michelle Von Emster was a shark attack, he has never
00:43:03
Speaker
seen an injury like hers from a great white. So what about other types of sharks? But a great white is the only one with a bite for strong legs. So here's problem number two.
00:43:20
Speaker
He actually said that the injury to her leg, where it came to a point, remember he said it was almost like it was twisted. He said that was something more akin to like a boat propeller. Like if your leg got caught in it, that could have caused that injury, but it was not a great white.
00:43:40
Speaker
Which kind of would make sense that maybe she was involved in like a boating accident because it was nighttime. So maybe they didn't see her swimming and maybe she- And that's one theory, except that nobody reported, you know, having hit anything in the water or anything like that. Another oddity with Michelle's death, with it, this theory that it was a shark attack.
00:44:07
Speaker
is that we know because of the ingested sand that many of her injuries happened before death, right? Because she has that sand in her mouth and throat and lungs and stomach. That makes me sense. Like to me, I immediately pictured she was like drug through the sand, like from the beach.
00:44:30
Speaker
Yes, and that would make much more sense because if it were a shark because of the sand, we would have to assume that the shark, when it bit her leg, had then drug her to the bottom and slammed her against the ocean floor and that she gulped in the sand and the water.
Dismissing Natural Causes
00:44:49
Speaker
But that's highly problematic because great whites normally don't attack prey in that way.
00:44:58
Speaker
So like when they attack seals, a great white can do something called a lateral head shake. If you've ever watched like shark week, you know, and you'll see the great white like jump out of the water and grab the seal and like shake it back and forth. And that can be quite violent and can break bones. But a great white normally delivers what is called the kill bite.
00:45:27
Speaker
And then they back away and they wait for the prey to bleed out and die before feeding. They also feed at the surface. They don't carry their prey in their mouths down to the bottom of the ocean floor. And that's something that would have had to have happened to explain the sand.
00:45:49
Speaker
Right. Yeah. If we're going with this shark attack, that would have had to happen for sand to get in her throat, stomach and mouth. Right. So first of all, the bite, unlike any other bite that leading world renowned experts have ever seen and behavior with prey that's not normally seen by great whites.
00:46:12
Speaker
Besides that, like we've talked about a couple of times in this episode already, Maggie, shark attacks are very rare. 0.2 cases per million in the United States. Wow. And that was according to an article published by the BBC. Instead, an article in National Geographic, which interviews none other than shark expert Ralph Collier, who I just mentioned,
00:46:39
Speaker
told Jennifer Heil, quote, it is typical for a great white to swim up to someone at a relaxed pace, take a bite, then swim off. I know, not that that makes it any less scary. Another shark expert in that same article, R. Aiden Martin, who's director of ReefQuest Center for Shark Research in Canada added, quote,
00:47:07
Speaker
Great whites are curious and investigative animals. That's what most people don't realize. When great whites bite something unfamiliar to them, whether a person or a crab pot, they're looking for tactile evidence of what it is, end quote. In fact, that article, this was super fascinating to me, but it basically said that sharks' teeth are like our hands.
00:47:36
Speaker
It's how they like feel and determine what things are. And so it's often the initial bite that's like more tentative. To see what it is, to see what it is. Or even if it is violent, generally that great white is going to give that kill bite and then back away. If this shark had defied probability,
00:48:07
Speaker
and bitten Michelle as if she were a seal, right? On that first attack, bitten her leg. And if that bite were unlike any other great white bite that Ralph Collier had ever seen, even if all of those improbable things are true, Michelle would have bled out in minutes from a severed femoral artery wound.
00:48:36
Speaker
And that type of injury from everything I read would have made it nearly impossible anyway for her to have taken the kind of deep gulp necessary to get the amount of sand ingested in her system that Michelle had. That's why I'm telling you, I think she was like drug on the beach through the sand.
00:48:59
Speaker
And most drowning victims, especially those who are attacked on the surface of the water, right? Like she would have been. She would have only had water in her lungs because most drowning victims are gulping for air and they're pulled under water. They're swallowing water instead. They're not swallowing sand. And finally, and perhaps the biggest mystery, if this were a shark attack,
00:49:28
Speaker
Where were Michelle's clothes? Well, she did say in the one theory she wanted to go skinny dipping. Right. But her clothes would have been somewhere. Oh, that's true. And her purse and that coat she had on. Yeah. So, okay. She could have gone for a nude midnight swim. Where'd she leave her trench coat? Where'd she leave the clothes that she had on underneath?
00:49:55
Speaker
Where did she leave her purse? And why were none of those things near where she potentially entered the water? So have they found them? Partially. Oh, did the shark walk up on the beach and take those off? But yeah, there's no explanation for it. And if she took off her clothes, why did she leave on her jewelry?
00:50:20
Speaker
Like why would she have gone skinny dipping but left her rings and her bracelet on? But she's leaving other valuables. Maybe she thought she would lose them. Maybe? I don't know. In my opinion, I think it's safe to say that Michelle's case isn't an easy open and shut one like it may have initially seemed. I would definitely agree with that. Yeah, but what or who
00:50:48
Speaker
could have caused her gruesome and violent death, if not a shark. As always, there are theories. So I'm going to present them. I'm going to poke holes in each one of them. And then I'm going to ask you what you think, Maggie. OK. Theory number one, other natural causes.
00:51:08
Speaker
This theory can be argued by two different means. The first potential cause is that Michelle had gone for a midnight swim, but had been caught in the undercurrents. And that ripped tide has had caused her to be violently beaten against rocks near the shore. And I don't know if you've ever been caught in an undercurrent. It's strong.
00:51:30
Speaker
Yeah I think I've mentioned before that Anthony and his brother almost drowned at the beach one year. That's why his family no longer goes on like the eastern coast for vacation. They always go to the Gulf because like they we all got caught in a like a really strong undercurrent but his sister and I and his dad were able to swim
00:51:55
Speaker
in when we went back under because like we couldn't touch but we pushed off and were able to swim in but Anthony and Aaron weren't and like the lifeguards had to come like pull them back in. That's terrifying. It was really scary. Like I thought I was like this is how Anthony like this is the end.
Examining the Suicide Angle
00:52:14
Speaker
Wow. It was scary like every time a wave would come they would they were like further and further out and they were just like little heads out there.
00:52:21
Speaker
Yeah. So you could see how this theory would operate. And this theory could have meant that Michelle was initially closer to the shore. And if she's continually being pushed down, it could explain the sand in her body. It could also explain the broken bones, especially if she was shoved against coral or submerged rocks or the ocean floor.
00:52:50
Speaker
But the questions about this theory, Maggie, aren't centered around the injuries.
00:52:55
Speaker
but around the choice to take a swim in the first place. Okay. So this was a question that I had at the beginning when we first started talking about the two different accounts of that night. One is it's cold. So why are you going swimming? Right. And then when you started talking about her injuries and now that we're talking about natural causes, is there like a cliff she maybe like thought?
00:53:23
Speaker
I'm going to dive off this and then she like hit rock or something like that. That is potential natural cause theory number two. Oh, okay. So yeah. So in this first one is the idea that there's an undercurrent that's so strong. The problem with that theory is.
00:53:44
Speaker
Like you just said, the water temperature would have been extremely cold. Actually, on that day at that time, it would have been around 59 degrees Fahrenheit. And that is cold. Yeah, not pleasant swimming water. No, and it's likely too cold for someone to take an extended midnight swim completely naked. Of course, again, she could have.
00:54:09
Speaker
But this is the same girl who fully clothed was wearing a trench coat because of the temperature. Another potential natural cause, which is what you just mentioned, Maggie, are the sunset cliffs themselves. Not that she would have dived off them, but these particular cliffs are known for spontaneous rock slides.
00:54:33
Speaker
because it's sandstone and it's like continually eroding. Most images of the cliffs, they kind of show the beauty of it. So it's like these majestic ledges set against the backdrop of a setting sun. But what they don't show are the rails and the signs that are up keeping tourists away from the edge and warning of falling rock.
00:54:58
Speaker
So could Michelle have climbed over the rail and the rock given way? That she would have had it done that naked. That's right.
00:55:10
Speaker
which is weird. Yeah, which I mean, I know she's like bohemian and kind of a hippie, but I think that's weird for someone that's- Yeah, there's a difference between like not shaving your legs nor shaving under your arms and being like, I'm going to get buck naked. Walk around. Everybody driving by can see me and stand here. Yeah. And again, though, if we follow the theory out, it would explain the broken neck ribs and pelvis.
00:55:40
Speaker
but it doesn't explain the severed leg. No. It doesn't explain the sand. And I feel like they would have been able to see like, oh, there's been a recent breakaway here. Oh, yeah, definitely. They could have seen that. Anthony is a best with rocks, so I would know. You would know.
00:56:04
Speaker
And like you just said, I mean, if she were, let's say, you know, because she's a free spirit, she did decide to just get naked and stand there on the edge. Again, where are her clothes? Yeah, I don't buy this natural causes theory. Yeah. A second theory is that Michelle committed suicide. Naked suicide? Well, I'll get to that because I questioned it.
00:56:30
Speaker
This theory posits that Michelle either jumped from sunset cliffs or went into the water knowing she wasn't coming out. According to the CDC, just over 1% of suicides are by drowning. So while rare, it does happen.
00:56:52
Speaker
as for being naked while committing suicide. Like I've heard of people taking off their shoes or taking off jewelry before committing suicide, but I wondered just like you did Maggie, if it was common to like undress completely. So I looked it up.
00:57:12
Speaker
Again, what people would think if they looked at my search history, I literally Googled, is it common to commit suicide naked? So in an article titled naked suicide by Robert Simon and published in June, 2008 in the journal of the American Academy of psychiatry and law online stated, quote,
00:57:38
Speaker
Naked drowning occurs infrequently, except when drowning takes place in a bathtub. Psychosis, substance abuse, or intoxication should be suspected in individuals who jump or threaten to jump naked from a building or bridge." And he further noted,
00:58:02
Speaker
that quote, naked suicide suggests a variety of psychological themes. The shedding of clothes may symbolize a new beginning, a rebirth and cleansing, or sloughing off of the world.
00:58:19
Speaker
In the biblical description of Christ's resurrection, his clothes, a symbol of an unregenerate world, were left behind as he ascended into heaven. In severely depressed individuals, a naked suicide may be an expression of vulnerability, utter despair, desolation, and worthlessness."
00:58:45
Speaker
Maybe you'll talk about this with this theory.
Theories of Foul Play and Potential Suspects
00:58:47
Speaker
Perhaps it, okay, maybe it was suicide, but it still does not explain the leg. Yeah. Because again, if she jumped, especially if she jumped from the cliff, it's the same flaws as the previous theory. Right. The rock gave way.
00:59:08
Speaker
Now could she have jumped from the cliff and jumped into the water and then been taken with like the like undertow and that could explain the sand in the lungs? Potentially but then how did her leg get severed? Well then my my theory would be we're gonna combine all of these and someone hits her with a boat. Right so like all the things happen.
00:59:31
Speaker
All of it. One bad luck after another after another. And maybe, like maybe she tried to commit suicide, perhaps, but there's another detail that I haven't mentioned yet that would seem to discount a shark attack, discount any other natural cause or suicide, other than her clothes being gone. Because again, how do you explain that? And that detail is her purse.
01:00:02
Speaker
Michelle's purse was found a whole day after she was discovered around 11 p.m. on Friday, April 15th, which might have been normal, right, to find out later if she had hidden it well or whatever, except that it was found out in the open on a busy stretch of beach.
01:00:27
Speaker
and it looked untouched. It still contained her makeup, cigarettes, keys, and wallet with her driver's license and $27 in cash. That's weird. Yeah, out in the open. We've already talked about this area. Yeah, it's not a good area. Weird or still,
01:00:53
Speaker
her purse was found around two and a half miles or three kilometers for our international listeners from where her body had been discovered. And I will say one person had the distance at half a mile instead of two and a half miles, but that detail doesn't change the problem of the purse. So if she had fallen from the cliffs, so the rock gave way, her purse wouldn't be half a mile or two and a half miles.
01:01:21
Speaker
from where she was found. Had she committed suicide, her purse wouldn't be where it was found. Is it possible that maybe she was dropped off where the purse was at and the tide carried her that far? Except that her roommate said she dropped her off at Sunset Cliffs, which is where her body was found.
01:01:45
Speaker
That's true, but we've had other cases where they thought they dropped them off at one like gas station and it was really another. In the Henry McCabe case. Yeah. Yeah. And I just, I question why they would be in two different locations, like her body and the purse. Because like, let's say she had willingly stripped naked and her purse with all items of value in it were found. I feel like her clothing would have been in the same spot. Oh, true, true.
01:02:15
Speaker
Like you're not going to take your clothes off in one place and then still carry your purse and leave it in another. Yeah, true. I hadn't thought of that. And here's her purse that has valuables in it and it's found, but her clothes aren't. Her clothes have never been found. So it's almost as if, and this is the speculation, her purse had actually been placed there in the hopes that it would be stolen by someone.
01:02:42
Speaker
Oh, so the fact that it was left in plain sight supposedly all day yet was found still with all of the items, including cash in it. It makes it seem to many, including investigators, like maybe it hadn't been there all day. Maybe it hadn't because it hadn't been left there by Michelle at all, but by somebody else involved.
01:03:11
Speaker
Which leads us to Theory 3. Theory 3 centers around Michelle being murdered. And there are two main people, those who believe in foul play are eyeing. First up, Edwin Decker. Remember the guy
01:03:29
Speaker
They were fondling each other. It was Decker. Yeah, the fondler. Yeah, the fondler. It was Decker who told police that Michelle had confided in him that she liked to swim naked in the ocean, something that her friends didn't corroborate. So immediately, many people were wondering, like, is Decker just divulging this fact because he knows Michelle was naked when she died?
01:03:56
Speaker
Couple that with the cringe-worthy writing from Decker about Michelle, writing the fondling, and a theory was born. And I need to clarify, Decker's writing itself is not cringe-worthy. He's actually very talented in this blog post that I read, but the content
01:04:18
Speaker
has left many readers wondering whether he could be involved. So obviously, I keep coming back to that word. Fondling. But after Michelle died, Decker wrote a poem about her. That's weird. Here's what the poem said. Quote, the report said there was a tattoo, a butterfly on her shoulder, which I remembered that night on my couch.
01:04:48
Speaker
when I, like the shark, chewed on her lips and took off her shirt." Ew, gross. I have a problem with the symbolic comparison of himself to the shark. Yeah, let me use a simile and compare myself to the shark.
01:05:15
Speaker
that murdered this woman, I'm supposing. Yes, I can't. It's true. That just seems completely inappropriate to me. Yeah. But we talk about this all the time. Writing what feels like inappropriate details does not make someone a murderer. Right, yes. Just like how we search, is it common to commit suicide naked on our computers doesn't mean that we're like. That we're going to do that. Right.
01:05:46
Speaker
And it was actually Edwin Decker who reached out to journalist Neil Matthews to publicize the inconsistencies in Michelle's case.
01:05:57
Speaker
and to urge the new medical examiner in 2008, Glenn Wagner, to reopen the investigation. So if he were guilty, it would not be in his best interest for Michelle's case to be reexamined. Yeah, I don't think he'd be like, hey, hey, do you want to reopen this case? Exactly. So that fact alone would seem to argue for his innocence.
01:06:19
Speaker
In addition to the fact that he actually in his blog post wondered why he himself, he was never questioned after Michelle's death. And he was like, I should have been. I was one of the last people to see her. Yeah. I thought that was standard.
01:06:35
Speaker
Additionally, a report by Dave Goode in the San Diego Reader included an interview with a lifeguard. And this lifeguard actually wished to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity that's still surrounding this case. And this lifeguard had previously encountered Michelle after seeing her. He saw her one day like in the water way further out than he had ever seen another swimmer.
01:07:03
Speaker
So obviously she liked to swim deep in the ocean. And once they got closer to one another, he could see her and they started speaking. And this interviewer asked how Michelle appeared when they approached one another. Like he literally asked this lifeguard, was she naked? Because that's what Edwin Decker said. Like she liked to swim naked.
Unresolved Case and Hopes for Justice
01:07:26
Speaker
This lifeguard admitted that she was indeed topless.
01:07:31
Speaker
So maybe Michelle did like to swim in the nude. The second potential person, her stalker. One of Michelle's coworkers at the stationary shop reported that in the days after Michelle's identification and autopsy, an unidentified man came into the shop, made tons of copies of Michelle's autopsy, and then left, riding away.
01:08:01
Speaker
on a motorcycle. Okay. That's weird. Like we didn't follow that up as investigators. Like we just thought that was normal and okay.
01:08:14
Speaker
I guess I kind of get like initially because I'm sure there are a ton of people in motorcycles. Yeah. But if somebody says, Hey, there was a guy who came in, he made copies of Michelle's autopsy, which is weird. And he rode away on a motorcycle. And she had a stalker that had a motorcycle. But the problem is though, at this point, Maggie, they'd already ruled shark attack.
01:08:40
Speaker
So could this have been the same man who she left her job at Rumors Coffee Shop to avoid? Had he potentially found her and been angered because she was trying to avoid him, right? And obviously this is a show of power to walk into her new job. If so,
01:09:02
Speaker
In addition to not reading whether a toxicology report had been done, I also read in that blog post by Edwin Decker that a sexual assault kit had not been done on Michelle. And again, likely because her death looked so much like a shark attack. Theory four, someone else.
01:09:26
Speaker
And the only reason I bring up this last theory is because in one of the articles I read, it mentioned that an informant for the police mentioned that he had last seen Michelle at 8pm. Her roommate Coco is female, which means barring a typo, someone else was there.
01:09:49
Speaker
and potentially knows what happened. Those who believe she was murdered Maggie keep going back to the fact that her clothes are still missing and her purse seemed planted. So Maggie, what do you think is most likely? So while obviously I don't know exactly what happened to her, I feel like it has to have
01:10:14
Speaker
Involved people like specifically Right, like I don't know. Like I just feel like it has to be almost done out of anger But that again just doesn't really explain the leg to me So maybe maybe it's a combination of things but I think it definitely was not something just natural. Yeah, not shark Yeah, or her falling off the cliff or being pulled under by a Riptide or whatever. No
01:10:43
Speaker
Yeah, there has to be an explanation for the clothes. Yes. In the end, medical examiner, Glenn Wagner, who took a fresh look at the case in 2008, agreed that there were many inconsistencies and many lingering questions. But without a feasible alternative theory, it was his professional opinion
01:11:08
Speaker
that there wasn't enough proof otherwise to change Michelle Von Emster's death certificate. The only hope given is that Dr. Wagner concluded by saying in his written response to Decker and Matthews that, quote, any case can and will be reopened if additional validated information surfaces, end quote. Perhaps Michelle's killer is still out there.
01:11:38
Speaker
Perhaps for Michelle, the dangers on the shore were far greater than those lurking in the ocean depths. Perhaps you or someone you know has information, important no matter how small, about the case that has yet to be shared. Or perhaps what happened to Michelle Von Emster is destined to remain a mystery.
01:12:08
Speaker
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01:12:30
Speaker
Please tell your friends about our podcast so that more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to write our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon. Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.