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S02E17: Adroitly Analyzing Andor Season 2, Arc 2
23 Plays11 days ago
Ghor darn it! We had so much to say about episodes 4-6 that we couldn't cram it into one episode. So this is part one... look for part two later this week! Meanwhile, enjoy some reflections and critique on the second arc of Season 2 from Bob, Phil, and Ben.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Short for a Stormtrooper'
00:00:01
Speaker
What is going on in Gorman? We're going to talk about it real quick. Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome back to Short for a Stormtrooper. This is Bob Girard, your host here with Ben Dyer and Phil Salmo as it's becoming regular as we continue going through all of this content.
Timeline and Pacing Concerns in Andor Season Two
00:00:26
Speaker
And i believe today we are talking about Andor season two, arc two, which comprises episodes four through six, correct?
00:00:38
Speaker
Correct. One year later. One year late. No, that one year late. Well, it's one year later than arc one, right? But one year later was the title of episode one. Don't confuse me. oh Because that was my point. Like, you know, I was supposed to the other night go on Coffee with Kenobi to talk about episode two.
00:00:59
Speaker
So I got all prepped for that. And then we had to cancel. So we're recording that tomorrow. And then I had to go back to this. so I'm kind of like all over the place with Andor. I don't remember exactly where we're at. So i was kind of counting on you guys to get me anchored.
00:01:12
Speaker
It's interesting you say that, Bob, because one thing that I do want to talk about the jump, and it's something that I was a little worried about when I first heard what they were going to do with the second season, which is, as I understand it, cover four, the remaining four years is in the lead up to the story of Rogue One in the entirety of season two.
00:01:29
Speaker
And one thing that I'm feeling right now after having now, we're halfway through, right? I'm feeling a little bit like they're rushing. And I'm not saying it's their fault, but I think by the nature of having to fit four years of stuff into 12 episodes, it feels a little bit like we're...
00:01:48
Speaker
kind of jumping and we're not getting in an in enough depth as we did in the first season and with some of these situations it feels like they're kind of these disconnected stories and granted we haven't seen the full i know critics have we haven't seen the full 12 episodes yet maybe there's kind of a grander purpose that they're like leading up to with all of these different situations but it feels a little bit disconnected right now so that's kind of how i'm feeling on the midway point of season two That is an interesting take. Yeah, Ben, he what what's your response?
Pacing Issues in Disney Plus Series
00:02:17
Speaker
I'm going to push back on this a little bit because all the Disney Plus series we've seen, especially the Star Wars series that we've seen, they've always had this challenge with pacing and padding.
00:02:25
Speaker
And I've been really interested to see if they were going to kind of pick up the pace with this. You know, and whenever something's short, you have to think in your head like, well, are they showing us the parts that are important for us to see right now?
00:02:37
Speaker
you know So whenever they do this three episode arc, I'm kind of watching this and saying, okay, so at the end of this three episode arc, this is this year, this was the important thing that happened this year. And we learned, for example, in the first arc, Mon Mothma is now kind of fully in, she fully realizes what she's gotten into and so forth.
00:02:57
Speaker
And then with this second arc, we're going to presumably learn something new, right? We're going to see something about Andor. We're going to see something about other characters. No spoilers here, but you know I've seen all three episodes at this point. So we do learn new things about these characters. They do move forward in some way. And I would so much rather have that and kind of guess it's stuffed in the gaps than feel like, oh gosh, we're going to do another six episodes of this. It's never going to go anywhere and et cetera, et cetera.
00:03:27
Speaker
Right. i I do think... My point, I guess, I suppose, was that... these three episodes, it doesn't even quite feel like we're scratching the surface, ah like in a way, especially I felt that way. Definitely with the first three, I will say like, I liked these, this four through six way more, I think than one to three. And as I like, especially six and we'll get into it. I know a little bit more, but um yeah, it's it's just feeling a little bit like we're kind of surface level right now. And I know we, it feels a little bit like we're kind of expanding our universe in a way like,
00:03:59
Speaker
sort of looking at all additional cast and characters. ah you know it And I will say this is an issue that I had with the first three, and it's an issue that I still kind of feel like we're encountering in these next three, which is that cast feels sidelined a little bit.
00:04:16
Speaker
I feel like still from the main action, I feel like it was it was more apparent in the first three, but I feel even like now, like the big action or like tension-filled moments don't feature him. He's kind of on the sidelines a little bit.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah. He's not as sidelined as Boba Fett was during the Mandalorian episodes of the book of Boba Fett, or as the Mandalorian was in Mandalorian season three, when they were focused on Bo-Katan a little bit more, but I can see that.
00:04:43
Speaker
I
Focus on Mon Mothma and Cassian's Role
00:04:44
Speaker
can see that point. Um, I do like though, because I love the character of Mon Mothma so much, and I love the character of Luthen and really the whole cast. Um, I just adore, uh,
00:04:56
Speaker
I'm kind of jazzed about seeing a little bit more time with them, even if it's at the cost of a little less time with Cassian. And Phil, i I totally see your point, but I'm finding from my experience, I'm just like really curious at all of these events that clearly happened off screen.
00:05:17
Speaker
And, you know, for example, we get into um we We start episode four and Bix is having that bad dream again, right? With Dr. Gorst and you know this kid he's torturing.
00:05:32
Speaker
It's not really, I think, until the end of episode six that we finally piece together all of the story that they were on some mission, the guy saw Bix's face, and so Cassian killed him where he might have let him live before, and that's haunting Bix.
00:05:50
Speaker
we We didn't see that. it It took us piecing those together, and I'm enjoying that. I'm kind of enjoying that, trying to suss out the part that happens in the gaps.
00:06:00
Speaker
And actually, You know, Phil, you really should have come in this last weekend like bill like Ben did for Universal Fan Fest. I also realized i probably didn't invite you.
00:06:11
Speaker
um But also, you know, that was that was in time of malice. That was just I wouldn't expect you to fly all the way across the country. um Nor do you have a spouse who likes to go to Disneyland to make it easier.
00:06:23
Speaker
But... um Very true. All these things are true
Storytelling Techniques in Andor
00:06:27
Speaker
of me. All these things are true. Ben did this this last weekend and we went out to Universal Fan Fest and we did stop at the big comic book store. We were there. So we were talking quite a bit about comics. And I raised the point out of school on this that um I was thinking about a famous book that Scott McCloud wrote called Understanding Comics.
00:06:47
Speaker
And it's really just a whole diatribe on the medium of comics. It's amazing. And then he wrote a second one. Reinventing comics, something like that? I think he made like three ultimately. Did he just, oh, then I have to watch the third one. Reinventing one.
00:07:00
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So anyway, he, he talks about in a comic book, the story that happens in the gutters, right? Because you've got a still image in one frame and then you've got a still image in the next frame. That's usually several seconds later.
00:07:16
Speaker
Well, something happened. between, you know, in that gutter between the second, those times. And it's the writer's and artist's job to give people just enough information to fill in what's happening there.
00:07:27
Speaker
And that's kind of what I feel is happening with this is they're giving us just the taste that we can hit the major points, but there's still a lot that's a mystery. And um I also think that all of the people who right now have contracts with writing fiction for Lucasfilm are just chomping at the bit because the number of hooks that they have for and or novels now is...
00:07:52
Speaker
off the charts. they They can go in and they can tell all these stories that, that we're not seeing out on screen. It's interesting. Yeah. And I will say that I think just this kind of something i was thinking about, but since you brought up the idea of like a book deal, I will say it feels a little bit, and I have no like obviously proof of this, but sometimes I feel like um there's shows i you I think too, I know, I know it's the star Wars podcast, but will just say briefly,
00:08:17
Speaker
There's show on HBO called Winning Time about the Los Angeles Lakers and their first winning season with Magic Johnson, right? The first season covered um the first season of the Showtime Lakers, right? So 79, 80.
00:08:29
Speaker
Went really in depth, right? But it was a very expensive period piece show. um And the second season, they covered four years, similar to Andor season two, four years over the second season.
00:08:41
Speaker
And I had kind of the same feeling of like, we're just not quite getting enough detail in these situations. There's a little too much to fill in the blanks. I think with that one, it was like about cost. But i know that with these ah Disney and Star Wars series and Marvel series, they can be very expensive to film.
00:08:58
Speaker
So I don't know if only doing two seasons of Andor was a cost thing, because I know how expensive these kind of like, you know, across the globe, you know, high cost shooting series can be, especially when they're only on streaming, they don't have any box office returns.
00:09:12
Speaker
So it's something I'm just thinking about too, that maybe there's sort of a cost element here and they're gonna kind of tie in these additional stories, as you said, Bob, with some of these book deals here.
Production Challenges and Major Story Arcs
00:09:21
Speaker
yeah Maybe, yeah. Well, you know, the official story, and i I believe it because it sounds right, and I've heard Tony Gilroy talking about it, is when they created the show, they broke down the five years to be five full seasons.
00:09:33
Speaker
but And then they realized as they were starting to get in-depth in depth and pre-production on season one that it was going to kill them to try to do five seasons. That it was just going to be too much work.
00:09:45
Speaker
So he's like, you know, if we take this approach of kind of hitting the high watermarks of each of those last four seasons, and boiling those down into the three episodes arc, we can basically get it knocked out in a year.
00:09:56
Speaker
And it sounds like as much as they enjoyed the creative process and ah and as good as it was, that probably was the right answer. Because I think we probably would have seen some diminishing returns and any any game of thrones fans can attest to what happens when the creators start getting tired uh and then it's like oh let's wrap this up in six episodes right right yeah but that's anyway i kind of i kind of feel like this is a little bit of like a ah cherry pick but i'm like you know maybe instead of one season fours maybe they could have done two seasons right that's just kind of good
00:10:34
Speaker
my thought. And then we could have had maybe a little more balance, but I agree. Right. I don't know if we could have had five seasons of it. Right. Cause then I think we would have maybe gotten some of the, especially with like everything that happens in the first season. and I think the way we set up Cassian going forward, it feels, yeah, I think five would have been too much.
00:10:50
Speaker
Yeah. so Awesome. Do we think that Diego Luna was jealous of Mon Mothma's costuming situation? his cover in this season, in the second arc is a fashion design.
00:11:02
Speaker
Could be. He was very, very pretty. He was.
French Resistance Vibes and Plot Twists
00:11:08
Speaker
As he said. What did you guys think of the story about the resistance on Gorman and this whole kind of, it had all these like kind of French resistance vibes to it. I mean, especially because they sounded like space French people.
00:11:20
Speaker
Space France in space Paris. um Right. Yeah. spra night Space nineteen forty s Paris. but That was really interesting. Like the stuff with Cyril really had me guessing for a minute there, whether he was, ah whether if it was like the, you know, I didn't realize the fake out was going to happen. I thought he was actually going to turn for a second.
00:11:39
Speaker
And they were like, no, it's all a ploy. And I was like, oh, that was such a, like, I just didn't expect that to happen. And then we still have kind of this, this two sides, him kind of playing both sides here, but now we kind of are in on what's going on.
00:11:50
Speaker
that stuff was really interesting. I was really enjoying some of the insight into the resistance. Here's a question for you. Do you think that Cyril is
00:11:58
Speaker
working his way up in the intelligence ranks of the ISB, or do you think he too is being played by ah Deidre and her spears? I think it's the latter.
00:12:09
Speaker
probably. I mean, they even say, right, I think I forget Deirdre's immediate superior, but he says things effective like Cyril can't know the real purpose, right? So he's kind of in the dark. He is a ploy for sure.
Character Relationships and Motivations
00:12:20
Speaker
um i think he feels like he's the hero of this one, but he is far from it. Poor Cyril. Major Partigaz is that guy, Phil. is Deirdre's boss is Major Partigaz.
00:12:32
Speaker
um Yeah, you know what? I've got a ah slightly different take on this because because I think the answer is both. i I think that Dedra genuinely loves Cyril as much as she is capable of doing.
00:12:53
Speaker
which is a very, very small amount by the standards of a normal human relationship. And so think she- It's enough to take on his mom. I mean, you know, yeah that's love.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yeah, right. was great. That was great. Although like, that's also a very calculated, thing. You know, you, you see the, cause I just rewatched this again too, is you see where Cyril is like, you know, we can cancel again.
00:13:21
Speaker
and she says, you know, no we can't cancel again. And it's not out of like social concern for Edie, for the mom or for anything else other than she's got a game plan that she's going to execute. She is going to end this charade.
00:13:36
Speaker
And so She is coming for dinner tonight. We are going to make it happen. It's going to happen. And similarly, i think that's kind of what's going on here between Dedra and Cyril is she does love him, but like she is a Grinch whose heart hasn't grown two sizes yet. It's very, very small.
00:13:56
Speaker
And so what that looks like. is still incredibly manipulative, incredibly using, is still all about putting herself in her career first. And her devotion to the cause, to the cause of the empire, is going to far transcend any relationship that she has with Cyril.
00:14:17
Speaker
The same way that we walked out of season one of Andor and got that take on Cinta, right? Cinta was not going to let her relationship with Vel exceed the cause.
00:14:32
Speaker
And then of course we saw in this arc, I think she realized that was a mistake. So it was going to be the one last mission and a mistake too late as it turned out too late.
Conclusion and Engagement Reminder
00:14:45
Speaker
Okay, we're going to hit pause right there because just as expected, we needed more time to talk about Arc 2. So I will broadcast that on Thursday. That will be posted on Thursday.
00:14:57
Speaker
Meanwhile, tonight, Tuesday of the day I post this, make sure you watch the third Arc of Andor. We'll talk about it the following week. You get how this goes. Meanwhile, hit like, hit subscribe, tell your friends, leave us a review, all the good stuff.
00:15:11
Speaker
May the Force be with you. We'll see in couple of days. Bye-bye. Who's that mindless choice to do? Podcasts, hope you see them through. Star Wars is your favorite unit. Let's chat for 15 minutes.
00:15:22
Speaker
Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short for a sporn trooper? Aren't you a little short for us?