Transcript
Speaker: I'm Jane Williams. This is the Red Eye Podcast. You can hear our live broadcast on Saturday mornings from 10 till noon at 100 .5 FM in the Lower Mainland. Today, Laurent Chisholm talks with Taz Condwani about a motion coming before Council to get more information about the VPD budget. Vancouver Cope Councillor Jean Swanson is bringing a motion at City Council calling for a transparent disclosure of the police budget.
Speaker: The motion comes amid a global uprising against racist police brutality and the deaths of BIPOC people at the hands of police, including here in Canada. Calls to defund the police are gaining support as communities look for better ways to protect and assist people, especially targeted and vulnerable populations. Over 200 people signed up to speak at council and local community activists are working to build support for the motion. The motion goes to council July 21st.
Speaker: Taz Kondwani is a community activist and he joins me now. Hello Taz. Hello. Can you start out by giving us a thumbnail sketch of what the four key actions are that motion before directs Vancouver to do if passed? Absolutely. It's actually very simple. It's for the BPD to first of all itemize all of their work related to mental health.
Speaker: homelessness, drug use, sex work, and how much money is being spent on those issues. Essentially, we're asking them to open their books up so we know exactly what we're dealing with. And then the second part is that the city is being directed to seek input from the groups that are named in the motion. So, you know, that's Black Lives Matter of Vancouver. That's Hogan's Alley Society. That's Wish. There's many groups in there that need to be consulted. And essentially, it would be ideal that we have a
Speaker: task force or a citizen's assembly of sorts. The third piece, it's essentially asking staff to report back on all this. And the whole picture really we're trying to craft here is to re -prioritize the city's approach towards mental health, sex work, homelessness and drug use. I think there's a call on the mayor then also to communicate this to the police board. Absolutely. The mayor is the chair of the police board.
Speaker: So it would be hard for him to ignore this, especially with over 200 people signed up to speak.
Speaker: to this particular emotion before. And, you know, we'll probably have more people signing up to speak, which I believe you'll have the opportunity to be able to do that in the next day or so. The emotion, as you mentioned, names multiple groups, including Black Lives Matter and Indigenous and women's groups and organizations promoting harm reduction. Why is it critical for the city to engage with these groups on the ground when it comes to policing?
Speaker: I'm glad you asked that question because ultimately all these efforts towards, you know, defunding the police and the greater goal of abolition of carceral systems is to create a community that is thriving. And these communities already have the answers as allies is our job to amplify their work and for the city to take into account all the incredible work that's been done already.
Speaker: And all this is informed by the trauma that many of these communities have felt, black, indigenous communities and other people of color in Vancouver.
Speaker: So when folks suggest that, you know, we should engage with these communities, we should start by looking at the recommendations that have already come out, you know, from Black Lives Matter, the revitalization that Hogan's Alley Society is asking for. You know, the recommendations in the Red Women Rising report, there's over 200 recommendations in there. And those are based on lived realities and expertise of the members of the community, which is why it's important that they be at the table and they be leading this discussion.
Speaker: What I hear you're saying is that we've already got a lot of input and a lot of really important work that the city should be listening to. Oh, absolutely. You know, it's funny to me that every time a difficult conversation like this comes up, people want to say, oh yeah, let's do some more research and studies and whatnot. Like, well, hold up. There's been decades of work done. The abolition movement is not new. The calls for reconciliation have been around forever.
Speaker: These communities have been feeling this trauma, just generational trauma for centuries. So the solutions have been informed by this trauma and that trauma has existed forever. So when we say we need to do more studies and research, we're ignoring the lived realities of these folks and the work that they've done to present solutions that will help them empower their own communities.
Speaker: The motion that Councillor Swanson's bringing appears to take what I would call a tactical approach to getting the conversation going on defending the police and also on funding alternative services. How could passing this motion lead to defending the police, even though that's not a direct outcome of the motion? It's not what the motion is specifically asking for.
Speaker: So we know that when Citi tried to pass a 1 % reduction in the VPD budget, that was rejected outright and that Citi didn't have the right to do that. Arbitrary numbers, it seems like, are not working, especially when they're a measly 1%, let alone if we were to ask them for 20 % reduction or 30 % reduction. What this allows us to do is first itemize all their work and understand where the priorities are.
Speaker: to dismantle a system we need to systematically dismantle it. And that means opening up every aspect of it. So utilizing the police act on the provincial level, utilizing our engagement with the police board to understand their priorities as a new board. So there's room to lobby them and understand them. And with the city itself, it has the power to affect the priorities of the city.
Speaker: That's what is needed right now. So this approach is one that looks at dismantling the system in a very systematic way, and beginning by addressing the main concerns that we have been hearing for decades in the Vancouver area from a lot of marginalized and vulnerable communities. We need to protect ourselves and our communities, and this will allow us to do that, I think.
Speaker: Why do you think, Taz, that we should defund the VPD and redirect those funds and not just go for reform? Reforming doesn't really work when you take into consideration that this institution is essentially built on oppression. The reason people say it's a racist institution is because that's the genesis of policing.
Speaker: The Mounties were created for one reason and one reason alone. They may have evolved into something that we now can look at and be like, oh, they're much better. But let's be honest, taking into account with all the other institutions that this colonial system has set up, it is only continuing that oppressive work of this colonial state.
Speaker: What do you think is the work we need to do to shift the paradigm on how we protect people in our communities, BIPOC, queer, women, other vulnerable people, but how do we protect all of us? I think the work has to begin by building deep, honest relationships and actually doing the work of educating ourselves first. Not putting the onus on these communities to educate us.
Speaker: resources exist out there already. We need to start by learning and reading the work that has been done. The best way to go forward right now is to identify the asks and the demands of these various communities and amplifying them. In the meantime, offering whatever supports you as an individual can, and then also recognizing that sometimes it is necessary to step back and not to try and occupy spaces.
Speaker: that may not be ours. It's okay for us to do things and learn from them, but we need to be open to being called in and called out and use those as an opportunity to grow as a community while centering the voices of people that need the help the most. What's a good vision for how defunding the police and funding community -based groups could look like in terms of a supportive community safe service?
Speaker: I would be lying if I said I have the answer, but I will say this. If right now you go down to any of the encampments in the parks right now where folks are building community, you'll find that there are leaders and elders who know how to deescalate. There are grandmas and aunties that are trolling the streets who know people by name. They know what the concerns are and they know how to deal with these folks.
Speaker: By dealing, I mean they give them support, a place, a conversation, anything really that helps them come back down to be able to converse on the same level, I guess. We know that elders, matriarchs, they've been doing this work and they should be the ones consulted on that.
Speaker: What practical tactical steps can people take to support Councillor Swanson's motion? One of the best ways is that once the form to request to speak to council on the city's website is available, definitely sign up. We have over 200 folks now, but the more the merrier, send the signal. There's also a couple of letter writing campaigns going on.
Speaker: We know that Cope Vancouver has one email campaign. If you go and follow Defund VPD on Instagram, they've got many links in there. There's folks involved from the Social Justice Center. There's people involved through the VTU as well. There's many people that are involved and pretty
Speaker: live out there. If you're following this particular motion, you will see the activity and it will present you many opportunities to get involved and to have your voice heard. It's been excellent talking with you and I understand you'll be talking to Council when the motion comes up. Yeah, I have the privilege to be the first one on the list and I'm looking forward to hoping that I can do justice to this motion and to the folks who are
Speaker: you know, really trying to have an impact in their lives. Well, it's been great talking to you. Thank you so much. Thank you. I've been speaking with Taz Kondwani about Motion B4 going to Vancouver City Council on July 21st. You can write to Vancouver City Council about that or sign up to speak to Council before 8 .30 a .m. on Tuesday, July 21st. And you can find a letter to Mayor and Council about B4
Speaker: at the COPE website at copevancouver .ca slash defend underscore the underscore vpd. You can also go to blacklivesmattervancouver .com where there are excellent resources to write, mare and cancel on defending the police. The Red Eye podcast is produced at the studios of Vancouver Co -op Radio. You can support us by supporting Co -op Radio.
Speaker: go to coopradio .org and click on the donate button. Independent media relies on the support of people like you.
