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76. Covers vs Originals - Part 4
44 Plays3 months ago
In these episodes, we aim to determine which type of song rules supreme: The Cover or The Original!
Does writing the music and lyrics grant you immortality in having come up with the initial work? Or is it how you take those lyrics/music and develop it into something special that matters more?
In our next battle of the ‘Covers vs Originals’ war, we take a look at 3 more covers chosen by ourselves and our listeners and discuss & debate whether it is better than the original.
And so continues the game for many ‘Cover vs Original’ episodes to come to determine… which is better - the cover or the original?
Going into Part 4… Covers: 14 Originals: 10
This episode:
- ‘Hound Dog’ - Elvis Presley
- I Only Wanna Be With You - Volbeat
- Simple Man - Deftones
Episode Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4mr89piiRK3p1oBn0nczI7?si=2d7ad3aaf0364afe
LONG LIVE ROCK ‘N’ ROLL
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Podcast
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Long Live Rock and Roll podcast with myself, Laz Michaelides and my co-host on the screen opposite me, Mr Felipe Ammerim. How you doing, bro? Doing great, man, and you? Excellent.
Concert Experience: Mr. Bungle's UK Return
00:00:23
Speaker
Yeah, very well. Thank you. I'm pretty tired. I went to a gig last night in Kentish Town and I got back very, very late. But it was very cool. I went to see a band called Mr Bungle. Have you heard of them? Oh, yeah. You have? Excellent. I've been into them in recent months. My best mate, they're his favorite band. He's gotten me into them over the last year or so. But yeah they haven't they haven't played it was amazing yet but they haven't played in England since the 1990s so it was special first time in 20 years back in the UK so yeah really amazing gig but yeah.
Engagement Call: Support the Podcast
00:00:55
Speaker
um Well welcome back to the show we're gonna do the the part where we ask something from you at the start rather than the end and this is the normal thing we ask that if you're watching us on YouTube please like and the video and please subscribe if you enjoy the content to stay up to date with new episodes and stuff that comes out
00:01:11
Speaker
And if you're listening to us on Amazon, Apple, Spotify, please go down and just give us a quick review, hit the five stars, write a quick comment about us and let the people know what you like, because that what that does for us is it boosts us up the charts, makes the algorithms work so that more people see us. So it takes 10 to 20 seconds of your time, but does the world of good for us. So we'd really appreciate if you'd do that for us. And if you if you're feeling really lazy and you still want to drop a reveal, just write good stuff. That's it. That's all it takes. Yeah, it still does the job.
Segment Introduction: Cover vs Original
00:01:41
Speaker
um Now, talking of good stuff, we are going to talk about some covers today in our part four of our covers versus original series, where we take an original song, we take a cover of the song and we discuss it and decide which is better. um It's obviously all in good taste. Our um our opinions are not final. and we've
00:01:59
Speaker
We love it if you disagree with us, so just make sure you let us know what you think about our comments in the comments section if you're on YouTube. um And what we're doing is tallying the scores up of how of what what we've done, haven't we of who whether we think the cover's better or the original. And the scores going into this episode is Covers 14, Originals 10. So the covers are edging it. Yeah. um And we've got three songs to analyze and discuss today. We've got one song from Felipe, one song from myself and one song from one of our listeners who I'm really ashamed to say. I don't remember who it was. It might be Dom. So Dom, if you're listening, I think this is yours. ah So should we start off with the first song? Yes.
Cover Analysis: 'Hound Dog' by Elvis vs Big Mama Thornton
00:02:40
Speaker
Excellent. So the first song is Felipe's choice of Hound Dog by Elvis Presley.
00:02:45
Speaker
So um yeah the original was done by Big Mama Thornton released in 1952 and Elvis covered it four years later and it's a very famous song I'm sure you all know it but if you don't any song we mention will be in the playlist which you can find at the bottom of the show notes which we have the cover and the original and any any other song we mention. So Felipe please crack on man. Do you know what first tell us why this song and then tell us your thoughts on the cover. maybe because I've played it a million times and and every every time someone says let's do Hound Dog and I'm like which version of this because everyone has done it and it' so is it's a yeah as's a phenomenal blues classic really isn't it as it's it's one of those mandatory songs if you want to play blues and rock and roll and um or if you want to
00:03:34
Speaker
um understand the style, you know, so you got to know the song is and um well, the king himself decided to record it. So that's, you know, yeah, that's a reason for you to to to listen to it. Although, like, um of course, Elvis was famous for recording other people's stuff. It wasn't a songwriter who was an interpreter. He would go after the best possible songs. And this song was ah already ah a a hit, people loved it, but he made it even even bigger and more famous. What struck me about the about the listening to the original was how different it was from the cover, because
00:04:20
Speaker
Elvis's version is the one that myself, and I'm sure many of you guys have heard first off, but when I went, and it's so obviously rock and roll, isn't it? It's straight, it's just, it's it's straight, it's energetic, it's got Elvis's sort of characteristic vocal style, but when I went and listened to the original, I did not expect to hear the swing. Yeah, oh sorry, sorry, quickly, by the way, I think we put two of Big Mama Thornton's songs in the playlist. Now, I think the one that's two minutes, 52 seconds long, I think that's the original. But as we know from those times, an artist might record two songs, i two different sessions.
00:04:56
Speaker
And I think she rewre she probably re-recorded it after Elvis made it more famous, I think. Possibly, yeah. So you've got two versions of Big Mama Thornton's. We're going with the two minutes, 52 seconds one as the original. I think I've done some reading and that's the one. Yeah, so paper yeah short short story on that one. she um So that song wasn't written by Big Mama herself, but the songwriters who wrote the song for her, they they met her, say, we want to work with you, write songs ah for you to sing, and they wrote that song specifically for her thinking of her. They looked at her and said, well, you look like someone who who
00:05:34
Speaker
uh who can get really mad when someone upsets you you look like a really strong character and you look like someone who'd say you you you're nothing but a motherfucker but so we're not going to say that so we're going to put hound dog instead and they wrote the song uh ah but trying to sound like she, like, you know, trying to say the words that she would say to a man when she gets really upset. So it was written specifically for her and she has the angry kind of vocals that have suited the song perfectly. And I really, really dig her version. I think it's it's just, it's just. sense That's really interesting you say that because some of my notes here is that um Elvis's version
00:06:17
Speaker
Once you dig into the lyrics, and it's not like they're cryptic lyrics, you know, we know what they're talking about, but Elvis is a little too happy and energetic, isn't it? It's a little like the the the style of his vocals and the performance, as brilliant as it is. Don't really suit the lyrics, but she sounds angry. She sounds pissed off, doesn't she? And I think the styles is much more fitting to the lyrics in the original. Yeah, I think with Elvis, is it sounds more like a, like a piss take, isn't it? It's like, it sounds more like funny and it's more, I don't know, more comic in a certain way. yeah And it's very cheerful, the way it's said.
00:06:54
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And it swings in ah in ah in a certain, like, in a very predictable way. let's bela that the The groove is really steady, the band is doing a great job, of course. And they play, it there's a drum, a really loud the snare drum filled at the end of every verse. leading to the next one. So there's this drum fill, stop, start again. I would say that his version is kind of predictable in a good way. It's well done, well arranged, and it's clearly it designed to be a hit. yeah That's the thing. He got a song that was already a really strong, powerful song and turned into something more commercial. I think that's the ah the issue that some people might have with Elvis's version if they know the original.
00:07:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's designed to be commercial. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And I think um on both versions of the Big Mama Thornton song, i I was really fascinated by the um not the reliance, but the the the importance of the relationship of her vocals and the guitar, yeah because in both of the both of her versions, there's a sort of guitar solo, one of them, there's a call and response at the beginning, and then the solo in both of them. And I loved it. I just felt like it was a bit of a back and forth. It felt more personal. um you know, and and and the the whole recording as well, you know, the claps in and in the version, the swing, the vocals, definitely bluesy. And just the the the way that she worked with the guitar, I thought was a really nice, um yeah, really nice ah take on it. Whereas Elvis' version, although there is a guitar solo,
00:08:24
Speaker
Have you noticed how in the mix the vocal harmonies are so much louder than the guitar? Yeah, they have harmonies during the the the guitars. And the harmonies are more prominent. It's like they wanted that to be the attention, which I thought was quite interesting. It is an interesting arrangement, yeah but all of them, but I think out of Big Mama Thornton's versions, theres there's one that she doesn't swing until the guitar solo. That is the long one. yeah That's the long one, of a full band, like like more more than arrangement, that's not the original one. And the band swings for the solo and goes back to a more straight groove during her vocals. ah So that is it that's another interesting one. Whilst the original sounds a lot more like a rumba to me than like a rock and roll blues.
00:09:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's swung kind of rumba. That's how it sounds like to me. um ah But I think here's the thing. As I said, we've mentioned a lot of the arrangements in Elvis's version. Her version was is mainly about the vocals. yeah drinks She takes the lead and she makes the the lyrics really, really strong and and powerful. I think there a she makes the message more clear and is not a happy one. I agree completely. So you have a favorite as we do. Yeah, we're gonna ask. I'll go. and I'll go first then. Yeah, I will choose ah Elvis's version is iconic. I think the original version is better. So my score goes to the original.
00:09:48
Speaker
I'm with you on that one. i just want to I just want to add that Elvis made a lot of traditional blues music and early rock and roll music. He made it accessible to a lot of people. And I think his performance is just, there's a reason why he became the king of rock and roll, although you could put Chuck Berry by his side on that. yeah you know But the thing is, ah for bigger audiences, Elvis knew better than anyone else how to communicate and I think ah yeah he
Cover Analysis: Dusty Springfield vs Volbeat
00:10:20
Speaker
was a master of turning anything into pure gold he did that with a lot of songs but in this case no one can beat
00:10:29
Speaker
no one can beat Big Moa Thorton. She is the song. She is the lyrics. She just should. Yeah, no, no one can beat her on that one. He comes close, but he doesn't quite click. Yeah, no, no. Okay. For once in his life. For once in his life, he's second best. Okay, on to the second song, which was chosen by me. So the song is I Only Want To Be With You with the original by Dusty Springfield from 1963 and the cover by Country Metal Band called Volbeat in their album that was released in 2005. So I'll start off by saying that Volbeat are a really catchy band. They're probably you know my top 20 metal bands. I really enjoy listening to them.
00:11:12
Speaker
They have this habit of they mix some very heavy, almost thrash metal riffs with country singing and someone, or I say someone, it's not like only one person has done it, um a section of the internet call them Elvis Metal because there are a few songs they do. For those for those not watching, Felipe almost spat his drink out when he heard the word Elvis Metal. um But yeah, and they do that. Go and listen listen to songs like Sad Man's Tongue, $16. They've got stuff that's way that's much more focused than just metal. And when I say metal, metal music, but with the same kind of vocals, but they do sort of really add in that country twang.
00:11:51
Speaker
so when i heard this i found it really interesting because the covers they do are normally cover um country covers but they kind of went for like a 60s pop thing uh so when i heard it a few things that really interested me the catchy riff in the intro they actually gave it a riff dusty doesn't have a riff because pop music in the 60s it would be like right 10 second intro let's get straight into the verse or start off with a chorus but they've done that dirt and du edit that i found really catchy and it gave a song it gave their cover a personality right from the get-go. I thought it was short and sweet and does a great job at meddling up the song while still paying homage to the original.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. I love that. It's a double kick drum going um on on the chorus. It quite heavy. Yeah, i to be fair, I knew the original and I've listened to it again. And and does this is Springfield. She's got something interesting, because she she sounds very American, right? that I'm not talking about the accent. I'm talking about the the music style, really. And it's the sort of stuff that that was being ah played ah by american artists at the time and she was probably the best female british singer uh in that genre and and her song made it that song made it to number four i think it just did really well um so debut yeah see and yeah first single did really well made her name uh but it's it's just i wouldn't imagine that song played heavily but a lot of bands have been doing this recording stuff and in a heavy way but when as soon as the riff starts
00:13:30
Speaker
but I don't know what to say about that. It's just like it has nothing to you did do. I loved it. It's so far from the original that could have been a disaster. that is not how is I think ah they clearly don't take themselves too seriously, right? so They're a fun band. They enjoy what they do. When I say heavy metal, I mean heavy music. But that he has fun over it. 99% of the vocals is him singing in that same tone. They love melodies. I think that's what makes makes it special to me. And I think um yeah the vocals remind me of Ozzy Osbourne a lot, his solo stuff. I don't know what it is, but it does remind me of him. I never thought of that. But now that you've said it, I kind of i can see where you're coming from.
00:14:15
Speaker
I can't tell exactly what it is, but it does remind me of Halsey. The production is great. The sounds are great. everything Yeah. I was going to say that the music is simple enough in terms of metal, but it's simple enough that it works for the style of song they're covering. And I think his vocals have enough passion and emotion in them to convey the message of the song. Yeah. And here's my point.
00:14:45
Speaker
and you know I'll say that i'll say it after actually. The intro of the song, didn't that just give you Motown vibes? It does. with the the drama jack du and And then the horns as well with that little melody. yeah But I think Dusty's song has such a fantastic... That's what's American about it. Yes, absolutely. yeah The original has a fantastic way of just sprinkling in little textures that are so subtle in the intro, the horns. yeah and in the bridge the violins and then later on in the solo set there's a solo violin section and I find that they're not too loud they're not taking over the song it's not what your attention is meant to be on but it really does give off that Motown vibe that I really loved and really enjoyed. Yeah it's great and and she's got the the perfect voice for that genre. Well you've yeah you said that and this is my final point about this
00:15:39
Speaker
was that, and this will actually go towards the um the the decision I make, I think when you think about the lyrics of the song and what she's singing, as great as Volby's cover is, as a straight heterosexual male, when I hear Dusty singing those words, a tiny part of me is like, do you know what I mean when I'm like, is she flirting with me? Do you know what I mean? As in the way she's seen the lyrics. Do you understand what I mean? Have I conveyed that properly? You know, I try to not laugh so loud in the microphone. Does that make sense? She is an attractive pop star woman singing lyrics to me.
00:16:24
Speaker
the kind of almost like enticing me in being like, well, hold on, I didn't think I was attracted to you, but now, you know, like just because of the way she's singing. And I think like so small fingers in a i think that's what pop music, you think about the Beatles yeah singing about and all those teenage girls back in the 60s who would scream and faint because because they thought that the Beatles were singing each line to them. And it's almost like the reverse of this with Dusty Springfield. And maybe there's something i about her her look as well that makes you feel feel like she's a nice person and she would approach you. until Nice person, attractive, lovely singing voice and the lyrics as well. It just, that you know there's something that she gets an extra point because she's kind of, I'll use the word again, flirting with a listener. Flirting listener, she does it really well. Yeah, eggs are gone then, so give us your choice. What was your favourite? Ah, so my favourite was the cover. Wow, okay, awesome.
00:17:17
Speaker
I'm really surprised, but that's brilliant. Well, my favourite was the original. I love the Motown vibe we get. I love the horns and the violins. They bring such a lovely additional texture that you don't think it needs until you imagine the song without it. But I must say, I think Volby have done a fantastic cover as well. Very close. I had to say I love the song so obviously. Oh I just love it, isn't it? Yeah. The cover was so different and so when they started I said there's no way you're gonna do this to this song, you're just gonna just sound awful when I heard the riff. They do it justice. And then when the vocal starts I think okay you're not taking yourself seriously, you're just having a laugh. So they made me have a laugh. So that's why I enjoyed it, it made my day listen to that song. Excellent stuff. Okay on to the final one for this episode.
Cover Analysis: 'Simple Man' by Lynyrd Skynyrd vs Deftones
00:18:11
Speaker
Now we have the song Simple Man covered by Deftones on their cover album in 2011 and originally done by Lynyrd Skynyrd in 1973 from the album pronounced Leonard Skynyrd. So yeah, and this was the one that one of our listeners chose. So do you want to kick off Lee Pei? Put your thoughts on it. Pick one and then say your thoughts. Yeah. Well, until the vocals start, they pretty much sound the same, right? You might agree with me. The tempo is the same. I'm not quite sure about the key. Yeah, it's the same.
00:18:48
Speaker
same key the the the production is a bit different but the the guitar vibes and and the drum fills are pretty much the same the solo is pretty much identical so they didn't change much they tried to stay loyal to uh to the arrangements It's very close, isn't it? It's very similar. Very, very close. it's like i like I actually like covers when people don't try to change much. Because if you try too hard, it might make something ah make it sound too different and sometimes unpleasant. incredible yeah But what when you try to sound the same, you will sound different because no musician can play exactly like another musician. yeah um And even down to things like technological advancements. so Sorry, just to make a point. Did you have something else to say?
00:19:33
Speaker
uh yeah uh well don't just say say no i'm just going to say that in terms of technological advancements i think that the production of deaf tones the overproduction of it compared to 1973 is what does it a disservice there's a bit too much effects on the vocals the guitars are so produced that when you're when he's playing the verse in Leonard Skinard you can hear every note he's picking do du and andinging ga yeah and And in death tones it's a bit more subdued because of the production on the guitar, on the bass. So I think technology is actually taken away from a song on this point. It does sometimes. ah Modern recordings have a lot of compression because everything needs needs to sound the same. that's that That's the concept. And I think um the only thing that is actually played or executed in a different way is the vocals, isn't it?
00:20:29
Speaker
everything else is kind of trying to be like the original. The singer does his own take on it. I i think um I wouldn't go that far in changing a vocal line of a song the way it is. I think that you've got to be a good singer to do something like that and you've got to be really self-confident to perform a classic tune like that in a different way. Sounds darker to me than the original. i um yes so sounds yeah it Sounds sad and dark, whilst the original for me is a little bit more optimistic. And hopeful, yeah. i think I think what confused me most in regards to the point you've just made is, if the rest of the song and the rest of the instruments, they've made a point of keeping it really similar, why change the final aspect?
00:21:19
Speaker
Maybe that was the point. If they changed everything, it would be would be too much. And they said, what what if we just play like Leonard Skinner and have our singer doing his thing on top of it? ah h You know, you never know. But ah but i I like the fact that he tried to do his own thing and i need is not trying to copy someone else's voice because because that that is really bad. and I enjoyed it. Yeah. And then the voice is always the personality of the band. yeah the the strongest one because it's the one the listeners resonate with most you know yeah and and again everyone can relate to to that kind of songs a lot of lot to do with family relationships there's a lot to do with you know growing up and and and learn from from from your mum or from your dad and learn how to be a good person yeah because it's a really beautiful uh uh uh
00:22:08
Speaker
story really is and apparently the song was written in one hour all the the guitarists and the singer were talking about one has lost his mom the other one has lost his what his grandmother and and they they wrote the song about the you know the the the importance of those those women their lives and how they've learned from them so it's really beautiful but then if you um if you want to do your take on Leonard Skinner again you you You're touching a territory that's not really easy. They're such an American institution, aren't they? They represent a lot of that culture, or a lot of ah that thing. But in this song particularly, I would say that the lyrics are so personal and so strong, and I believe
00:22:54
Speaker
It's like someone talking about something bad in a positive way, talking about the the good things he's learned from someone who's no longer with him. And I think it's really hard to interpret that, even if you've been through the same sort of stuff. Do you feel the cover loses that a bit? I think the cover loses that because the cover made me sad, whilst the original makes me hopeful. That's really, really interesting. That's what I would say. That's a great point. um I didn't even consider it like that, but you're actually right. Yeah, great point, man. Just a few other points I wanted to say. What have I got here? Right. I think Deftones actually did a really good job in transferring it stylistically. I think if you hadn't heard the original, you would assume that it's a hard rock slash metal song and not a country rock song. Do you know what I mean? There are some songs that are banned. Let's take Zeppelin, for example. I think in a song, in an album like Led Zeppelin 2, it's very easy to hear.
00:23:51
Speaker
the whole lot of love is an original what is what should never be is an original then you get to like bring it on home and the lemon song and you're like okay that there's there's something here that has essences of what came before yeah but death tones have done a really good job to make it sound even though they haven't changed much and maybe this is where the production was a positive thing Yeah, because it yeah it sounds you can play this e you can play in the same way without sounding just like the original. But the end of the song, I want to give Deftones credit here, um the f the the ending of the song, there's something about it that hits harder than the original. Again, maybe production, maybe because you've got a metal band doing this doing this section. um And there's just something that I thought grooved a bit better.
00:24:37
Speaker
about the death tones ending compared to the Lynyrd Skynyrd. But that's not going to change my vote. It's just one of the little characteristics. What's your vote? I think that's the one. we We're not being really clear about this. So Lazarus has gone for a full sweep of originals today. I prefer the original of Lynyrd Skynyrds. There is something about the rawness of it. the way that the vocal delivery, the minimal production for the for the time, um the fact that you can hear every note he picks on the guitar, that's a massive important factor to me. Because I can imagine a man, as you said, sitting there talking about the loss of his mother, picking that guitar and singing it out. Whereas I know, and I don't know, again, I don't know if the Lynyrd Skynyrd singer played guitar, but I do know that Deftones have a guitarist and they have a singer.
00:25:28
Speaker
So I know that the Deftones singer isn't there playing the guitar. No, it's the same with... with So Lyn is going to have a singer who doesn't play guitar. That doesn't actually matter to my point because I can still imagine one man singing and playing. it Yeah, it does sound like a singer-songwriter kind of stuff. yeah Yeah, that's the personality that the song of the original pulls out and I think the Deftones did a great job like I said I thought that ending grooved really nicely and it had that the ending hit harder than the Linenskinen one but as a full piece I think yeah Linenskinen gets my vote. What about you?
00:26:07
Speaker
Yelling and skinning as well. yeah for just because it's It's a lovely sunny day today and I'd rather be hopeful than sad. That's so sweet. exit Well this is really interesting actually because we've come to the end of the episode
Conclusion: Original vs Cover Score Tie
00:26:21
Speaker
now. We've done our three covers um and going into it, it was covers 14, originals 10. Going out of it, going into part five, it's covers 15, originals 15. So the score's now balanced. The age-old question of what's better, the cover of the original, we've done four episodes now and we're actually stuck, which is really good because it just means we've got to do more episodes. Exactly, we got to we we we have to get to the point where when we are analysed about 100 songs then you can actually have a
00:26:51
Speaker
a fair score and you can say if normally covers are better than the reason. We're still early in the process let's put it that way. And thanks to everyone who who collaborated with ah suggestions we're always taking suggestions and always using them in the show. so And we've still got loads more so if you want to stay up to date with our stuff I already said you know like and subscribe on YouTube and follow us on the Apple and Spotify stuff but we're also on Facebook and Instagram We're not doing a lot there, we're just posting when the episodes come out so you guys are informed about it. However on Instagram we do do some stories so make sure you follow us there and it will include things like tell us what covers you want us to talk about because we did that a few weeks ago and we got loads of replies and that's all gone into a playlist. So when we do these episodes Felipe chooses one, I choose one and then we take one of our listeners as well. So if you want to get one of your favourite covers in on the show make sure you let us know. You can either message us, email us or keep an eye out on our stories when we ask the question again.
00:27:46
Speaker
But thank you very much for joining us. I did all the terms and conditions at the start. Please like, subscribe and give us the review and everything. It does us the world a good, I'll say it again, 20 seconds of your time, but really, you know, really means that we we really appreciate it. So thank you. Stick around. Keep up to date with our stuff and we'll see you next time. Yeah, guys, thanks for being with us one more time. Keep on rocking everyone and don't do anything that way. And as usual, take care and long live Rock and Roll.