Transcript
Speaker: All right, guys, we are live. Welcome back to the Savage Boston podcast. It is, what is it, August 18th, 830 at night on Tuesday.
Speaker: um We are right before the start of joint practice between the Patriots and the Eagles for the next two days, which is going great. We get some competitive ball. Should be a lot of fun. We're here with the guests. It's it's me. I'm Scott with Savage Boston Sports here with my co-host, Brett, and we're here with Ethan Hurwitz on SI.
Speaker: On SI. On SI. Important. um So we're here. Thanks for Ethan for coming on and we appreciate the time. What's what's been going on, Ethan? How are you? Good. Yeah, it's just a lot of of Patriots practice and Patriots walkthrough and Patriots practice and Patriots walkthrough.
Speaker: um And so it's it's football season. You can't really complain about that when it's football every day, right? It is, man. How's today? How did everything look today? Today was as as slow and as boring as a a Patriots walkthrough could possibly get. Like nothing happened. And i it it was such a slow – it was great. Yeah, it was it was such a slow day. and And part of it was because Monday was so physical to give them the off day, this quote-unquote off day. Yeah. Because Philly's coming into town tomorrow. Yeah.
Speaker: and that's going to be as physical as you can possibly imagine, right? And so I think it's good for them to sort of get healthy, um not take the brunt of their teammates hitting them every single second. um But Christian Gonzalez wasn't out there. I think that's sort of the big storyline of the week right now is Christian Gonzalez. Other than that, there was really nothing to take away from this. It was just sort of grasping at straws, trying to find something, something to talk about from today. yeah well before we dive into gonzalez stuff and and get our takes on that I just wanted to make sure I get this out of the way first so um on Thursday the second day the joint pods we're having a big live event it's at the harp um at Patriot Place this is after joint practice um I just want to get this on the pod on the live stream like we're gonna have a ton of awesome awesome giveaways um we're kind of
Speaker: We know sponsors. We're having a lot of donations from the Fanatics Fan Advisory. So a couple of things, we're going to be able to give away an A.J. Brown signed football. We're going to give away a Trivia and Henderson signed football. All you got to do is RSVP.
Speaker: You got to be there in person to get like the grand prize type gifts. um but But again, it's going to be awesome. We're gonna have a ton of sick gifts. We're going to raffle those off. And the best part, which I love, is that all the proceeds are going to go to the Roberts program at Children's Hospital of Boston ah to benefit research for SIDS for babies, so for infants. So very, very near and dear and super excited to be able to raise some money for charity. So it should be a really, really fun event. So, again, come by. We're going have Fitzy's going to be there with us. Everyone knows Fitzy. We're going to have Tully Banta Kane's going to be there and hoping he signs a couple of balls, Super Bowl balls, while he's down there.
Speaker: And amongst other guests, Sophie, podcast co-host Sophie is going to drop in and be there. Hopefully Ethan wants to come too. So it should be a lot of fun. and And we're hoping to just have a really nice, really fun live event. Want to get that out of the way. So, yeah, Ethan, let me get your take first and then we'll throw to Brett. How do you feel about Christian Gonzalez contract situation? So obviously this is like, you know, clearly the big talking point right now.
Speaker: And um people are giving all sorts of wild takes online. um You know, again, some people still think they should just trade them. And this is too frustrating to deal with. which I disagree with. So, Ethan, why don't you give me your take first? How do you feel about the Christian contract situation? Yeah, I don't think they trade him. I think that would be just football malpractice, suicide, whatever adjective you want to say.
Speaker: I think that this team over the last five years has had difficulty enough drafting a blue chip player, and I don't think though the one thing you can do when he wants a contract extension is to trade him away. I just think that's that's total malpractice. um But I think that this contract will get done. I think that's not – Christian Gonzalez wants to be here.
Speaker: Elliott Wolfe, Mike Vrabel have all said that they want to keep Christian Gonzalez here. So I wouldn't worry about a deal getting done. Also, when you sort of take into account that he's under contract for the next two years. So I'm not losing sleep over the fact that a deal hasn't been done. i would start to, you know, maybe lose a little more sleep if it's not done by week one, because then it's sort going to sort of boil into the season and,
Speaker: That can probably rub some people in Gonzalez's camp the wrong way. um But for this week, I think it's sort of as good timing as an injury as you want to – even say i i feel weird even saying that but got banged up with an ankle injury earlier and so that's sort of why he's not practicing free will say he's sort of through the return to play process so it's not fully clear to go back on the field but it's also coincides with hey i've got philly coming in next week or in two days one day
Speaker: I don't want to play against these guys that are going to be a tough team. They don't have sort of the same understanding as my teammates knowing I want a new contract. so I think it just sort of works out perfectly where you want a contract.
Speaker: You have sort of banged up injury, so you're not on the field, but then it sort of blends into this pseudo holdout. I'm not going to call it a holdout because he's hurt, but it just sort of blends the two things together.
Speaker: um But I think that he wants to be here. I wouldn't look at this as like he is – you know anti the Patriots or is upset that he doesn't have his contract. I think it's it's going to get done at some point. I think the DeFond Witherspoon contract is sort of the first shoe to drop and it wasn't going happen until that happened.
Speaker: So I'd say it's on the right track. I don't have any inside information about that right now, but it feels like it's going to get done at some point. It gets done post cut down day week one before, like after week one, then you start to get a little iffy you know,
Speaker: is Gonzalez that he doesn't get it by the first time of the year. Yeah. Brett, what do you think? Yeah, I'd be I'd be extremely worried if he's not signed by week one. To me, it needs to get done.
Speaker: We all expected the Witherspoon would be the first contract to be signed. And essentially that would be the next domino that would lead up to Gonzalez. But Gonzalez is the domino for us and what leads up to May and eventually Campbell and really just sets the table for how we're going to do our entire future.
Speaker: And so it's going to be important with how we structure it. And I think that's probably where they're going through. you know, where's the contract money has a back end, is a front end? What's the per? I mean, a lot of these guys at the end of the day, they just care about their guarantees. So I think that's a huge aspect is what's the guaranteed amount going to be for this contract. Because the per year, yeah, he's going to be the highest paid player.
Speaker: I would think he's going to be 34 plus at this point, because if you look at Witherspoon at 33, it's got to be more than that. And I think that makes sense. He's deserved it. I'm just concerned. Right. This is the part where you look at it and say, if we cannot get this guy early on, especially week one, we got Seattle.
Speaker: You know, I don't like the a prospect of us going into that game, not having the best defensive player, one of the best players we have on the entire team in a contract dispute. Like this has to happen. And you're 100 percent correct. You can't draft guys, develop guys and then not be willing to pay them what the market dictates they should be getting paid.
Speaker: Like this is the m MO Kraft has to get out of. I think it will get done. I'm just concerned that they're pussyfooting around with this and doing the game that they typically do with these contracts with incentives and and how it's built up and constructed. And not all of it is guaranteed. And and I could see why Gonzalez would be sticking on that and holding out. So I'm just concerned because i feel like it's just another example where we're just, again, pussyfooting around with a contract on an elite, talented player.
Speaker: That's going to set the table not only for this season, but future seasons and players to come. Like you need to lock this guy up. And the salary cap is only going to continue to increase year over year over year. We're going to look back at this two years from now when we're going to say that's a great contract, right? And so like, that's the part where you have to look at with these owners and just say, hey pay them, pay them the guarantee. He's worth it. He's going to produce.
Speaker: Well, ah a few things, few things, because lot of stuff brought up a few things. One, I mean, the report is right that he wants to, I think this is right, Tom Curran, that he wants to, but he doesn't want his contract to immediately be obsolete. Right. Which, which is an interesting point. Like he wants to get paid 2027 money.
Speaker: not 2026 money, which is an interesting thing. You try walking into your boss's office and be like, yeah, like I'd like to get, I want my money from three years from now. You know what i mean? It's a joke. Anyway, but like, but it's hard to just be like, yeah, i want future money after like a 10% cap increase, you know, versus money today. Like that's kind of interesting.
Speaker: um Obviously you don't want your your market setting contract to immediately be obsolete. Not like it would be like we're talking about life changing money for anybody right now. um To another point to that, I would be, i can't even imagine him not playing.
Speaker: like like holding in during the season like that to me i actually can't imagine i think if that happens everything would just be like shut down you know all contract like in the in rap report said this too he alluded to like if it gets to the season they're just gonna like they're gonna they're gonna couch it you know what mean and they're like just play the season and then maybe revisit next year but it doesn't seem like they're gonna be negotiating much like during the season um So that's another thing. And the third point, his injury, because Ethan brought this up, his injury, his injury, again, it's no inside baseball for me on this either. Like that's what they're telling people is like he got an injury. ah He sustained in practice. But i think there's ah it's an opportunity that Christian Gonzalez saw this, him and his team, and said, okay, we're little we got a little banged up.
Speaker: We're not rushing this. It's a physical joint practice week. we're going to like, let's, let's take our time here. And this is like an opportunity to have not quite a hold in, but clearly again, they're not rushing back for Eagles joint practice, which is going to be, you know, extremely physical.
Speaker: So I know there's a lot there, but Ethan, i don't know. How do you feel about that? you feel like there's any potential he's using this injury as a semi hold in right now? Yeah. I mean, maybe um it's so hard to say because like for all we know, we actually is banged up and it's just sort of, you know, lucky timing on that part.
Speaker: um But I do think the big thing is that you want to get this contract done now, or by now I mean this year, because you don't want to go into next year and then have to pay Christian Gonzalez top-of-the-line money and Drake May top-of-the-line money. And, you know, people are – what, Drake May can make $70 million year? Like you're going to tie $100 million dollars in guaranteed money two players, and and rightfully so. Those are your two best players, so if anything, yeah it should go to those two.
Speaker: But you don't want to have this offseason where you're like, well, we need to extend you know a top two, three corner and in football and then extend the face of your franchise. You just don't want to do that. There's just so much like money hope to put into two people into one year. It's just you got to get this deal done at some point.
Speaker: And it feels like it'll get done. The question is just when. um And I think the biggest – I took this away from the joint practice against Indy. Gonzalez didn't even play, and he was probably one of the biggest winners on the field because you look at the Patriots' secondary, and without Christian Gonzalez, without a 100% call to Davis, it's a little iffy, right? Like they got Charles Woods, Kendall Vildor, Marcus Jones in the slots, your best corner on the field right now, Karan Prunty. And so that's like they got talent, but it's not really proven in this defense.
Speaker: you're sort of looking it like you can't afford to have Christian Gonzalez not play. You can't afford to have Christian Gonzalez be upset that his deal is not done. Whether he says he's upset or not, you can't you can't risk you know pushing that button. um He's still got two years left on his contract. So you know the team can say, well, we just want to wait.
Speaker: It's not like Gonzalez is a free agent at the end of the year. But I think that you look at sort of the secondary that they have, and you go into Charles Woods as your second corner player, who was really your fifth corner last year and more of a special teams guy, doesn't really feel like it's a plausible way to win.
Speaker: This is bad business, though. like Sorry, Brett, I'll let you go. It's bad business to fuck around with players that are premier players like this. I mean, seriously. you imagine? Because they could fuck with them.
Speaker: If they want to say, all right, no contract this year, then it's your fifth-year option, which we're going to pick up, obviously. Then we could franchise you. So there's three years of coverage right there.
Speaker: And then can't they do a second franchise? Yeah, I'm sure that that would increase the money by God. does You know what I mean but like So like they could they could fuck with him for four years. I mean, then you have player who's not giving good effort, who's holding in, he's sitting out in half the season, he's demanding trades. Again, that is not how to do business. And that's not what you want. And that's not what you want for your premier player. So, sorry, Brad, go for it. Well, and this is what I mean with the Patriots is doing what they're historically doing, pussyfooting around. Like I get Wolf's going to be the guy that goes out and speaks, but this is Kraft at the end of the day. This is his checkbook that's going to put the bill. And if you kind of look at the record, right, Wolf early on this spring was talking about the Gonzalez contract, and he said he's already under contract.
Speaker: And like he basically put it out there like we shouldn't be considering extending him because he's already under contract, which you look at a guy like Gonzalez where it's his first year of eligibility and you're going to tell that guy, oh, well, you're still under contract for two more years because you signed a rookie contract. You're clearly outplaying it, one of the most elite players of your level, but we're going to continue to pay you on your rookie contract because you're under contract.
Speaker: Like i would I was gone. Gonzalez, I tell him go fucking pound sand. And then on top of that, you take the Tommy Curran report. Who do you think is leaking that to him? Right. Do you think that's Gonzalez's camp going out there and saying that? No, it's not. You have Kraft going out early in the camp talking about how we've already talked to Gonzalez's side and we've offered him the richest contract in Patriots histories, yada, yadda yada, yada.
Speaker: you know what he was doing. And then you hear Gonzalez come out afterwards and basically say, I respectfully wish this was handled differently. Right. So there's just more and more examples. You look at how the Patriots side between craft Elliot Wolf and like what they've approached it with and the communication they've had versus Gonzalez. Gonzalez has been pretty quiet, steady soldier.
Speaker: i want to be here for my guys. Like I'm not going through the contract side. I'm 100% on Gonzalez's camp. And again, I'm just weary that the Patriots are continuing to play this game that they play to try and nickel and dime to somehow save money on the Gonzalez contract. When it's like he's worth the money, pay the man the money. You're not going to all of sudden pay him this historically obscene contract has never been seen before and will never be exceeded.
Speaker: going forward like it's going to be outdated in two years regardless of what gonzalez is trying to do so like what are we doing let me ask ethan this so like i don't want again not trying to start beef again with uh a certain guy i had beef with today online but there was a report that he wanted 18 percent of the cap, which would be like $54 million, dollars which is, that's not true. um ah But just because that number is not true, it doesn't mean like he didn't ask for that. What if he asked for 12% of the cap? but That's 36 million.
Speaker: You know what mean? Like that's, and that's a lot higher than that's 10%, you know, that's a, that's a big leap past Witherspoon. But he could have asked for something like that. You know, I don't, I don't, we don't know what he asked for, but I feel like a lot of reports were coming out from the Patriots side um kind of trying to like you know decrease gonzalez's value a little bit in the eyes of everybody and and it felt a little felt a little bit queasy you know i don't know i don't know if you felt that even yeah i mean that's just sort of welcome to the nfl right where you get you get both camps feeding both stuff to everyone just just sort of playing the mental game and you know it's agents in front office people sort of talk talking through reporters um
Speaker: Who knows? i can't confirm or deny any of that. um So I'd be sort of putting my foot in my own mouth if I try to. um It just feels like a lot of money wrapped up into one player. Now, that's a player that you're – you're willing to wrap your money in. um But it just feels like a lot when you look at it that way and you're like, oh, well, nearly a fifth of our entire cap space is put onto one player, right? And it's, you know, if if you look at the contract and it says 30 million a year plus whatever, you're just like, okay, great.
Speaker: Here's the contract. We like it. But when you look at it at like 20% of the cap, it seems a lot crazier. just when you look at it through that those lens, who knows if if he's asking for a specific fifth of the the total cap space or a certain amount of guarantees.
Speaker: think it'll get done at some point. They just sort of have to hammer out whether it's guarantees or or average per year you know, incentives or playing time and and yada, yada, yada.
Speaker: um I just, it feels like it'll it'll get done. it just feels like there's a lot of you know, backdoor talking through reporters, not me, um trying to either increase or or decrease his value. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I mean, it's been a big, obviously a big story. It's kind of like the biggest story at a camp right now. And I'm sure, again, in my opinion, um i think it all gets done. I'm hoping, hopefully it gets done this week. I think they have a clear template with the Witherspoon contract. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to get it done um unless they really don't fucking feel like it. And then Gonzalez won't budge off his number and, cra you know what I mean? Like, like these are,
Speaker: ego-driven people, everyone. You high-powered, ego-driven people, so it's tough to compromise sometimes. So we'll see. I mean, we're talking about a lot of money. um I want to pivot and ask you – so one of the guys we've been talking about a lot, Ethan, at camp, um rookie Caleb Lomu. So with Lomu, I went through a bunch of his film the other day from from the game. i went through all his passing downs. on the all 22. And I was like, all right, you know, it was fine.
Speaker: Like it was fine. He had like one speed rush. He gave up a little bit. And he had like one poor step on, like he had one misstep, you know, he went forward. It looked like maybe an RPO, like he was going out to get somebody versus, and he got swam. Other than that, his pass pro looked fine. They had him diving at people a little bit to help them out. um What have you seen from Lomu in practice? You know, like, how does he look to you? Does he feel behind? Does he feel on schedule? How you feeling about Lomu?
Speaker: yeah I mean, he feels a little behind, but like by that much. And so like you feel like he's a developmental guy that you don't expect to be a starting offensive lineman this year. I think they drafted him with that idea that you probably, barring some crazy incident involving Morgan Moses, Will Campbell, or or both, um you really don't expect him to be a starter this year.
Speaker: I think the plan is to have him as your – Third tackle, swing tackle, jumbo tight end, maybe a guard if need be type player. I think that's just sort of the expectation for him.
Speaker: It was a rocky start to training camp. just I think the the speed got to him at first. He's settled in. um He's looking better on the right side.
Speaker: He's gotten some reps on the left side. But I think the plan right now is like – He's not going to be a starting offensive lineman. I think that's not really the expectation right now. Now, if if Morgan Moses, Will Campbell goes down, then this can be a different discussion. But at that point, you know hopefully Lomo has picked up the speed of the NFL.
Speaker: I think at this point, you're really hoping for him to be a serviceable third tackle. um But right now, it's really him and Marcus Bryant being that third tackle. think b brian's probably been better at this point than let's say has brian been as good as people like why brian's really good brian when when campbell was limited with an arm maybe campbell wasn't out there um and brian got first team reps at left tackle and looked really good and i think you're going to the season right now and it's probably brian as your backup left tackle and lomo is your backup right tackle um
Speaker: That's really, I think what, like, yeah i the word bust before he plays his second preseason game is so ridiculous. That's crazy. It's ridiculous. hope no one said that, though. I hope nobody said bust. I think that's just a ridiculous thing to begin with.
Speaker: um But I think it hasn't been the it has been the greatest start. But I think he shows enough versatility. He's young enough. yeah He has a good head on his shoulders where he's willing to kick inside and play guard. Yeah.
Speaker: But he's just sort of been a little, just a step or two behind. But it's it's it's slowly coming. The preseason game was a nice step in the right direction. Yeah. Brad, how do you feel about Well, I'll lump him in with Yakis and just say that our first two picks don't give me the warm fuzzies going into the start of the season. You're not high on Yakis, Yakis? You're not high on Yakis? Not yet.
Speaker: Not yet. I mean – and Vrabel's not high on too. Vrabel's picking on him, which is good. He needs to get picked on ah because he's got to show up and he's got to not get blocked, quote-unquote.
Speaker: And so switching Lomo – Concerning, right? Concerning for a fresh round pick. But again, i would agree. It's way too early for us to be jumping out and saying this guy is a bust or this guy is you know,
Speaker: not going to fill out as we need him to fill out. We knew coming into this that he was going to be a long-term plan for Moses. Like that was no surprise.
Speaker: That was basically the plan. What they're doing now is they're trying to figure out if they could plug him in other positions. Like they're talking about guard that's due to injuries and recognizing the fact that you may need to kick the guy inside to be able to help when injuries happen. So I'm okay with them floating them in there.
Speaker: But it was a little concerning when Vrabel was talking about how like we really need him to learn his position with the tackle spot. And that's an area where i just I'd like to see him get a little bit more solidified. He's probably going to get some reps again this next preseason. I'd assume he's going to get a little bit in joint practices with the ones, but probably not much. So we'll see what happens and how he's looking in those environments because I think the joint practices are going to be a much better indicator against higher end talent than what we're going to see in the preseason.
Speaker: But for your number one guy, i just want to see this guy come in there and produce, especially because he's not going against Number one's on the other side. So he's got to be able to come in there and start to learn, start to show and be steadfast. So as my alarm bells going off, no, but um' I'm not exactly jumping out and basically saying like, this is going to be, awesome like i'm more high on raritan than i am on yakis and loom right like he's a guy that i look at and say wow we might actually have someone and with hill going down he's going to get more reps and we'll see what happens right he could add a level to our tight end position that we just haven't had because i mean austin hooper wasn't going to do it last year and and henry's on the decline so we'll see lomo's a guy i want to see produce yakis is a guy i want to see produce it's a new week let's see what happens
Speaker: Have you seen, Ethan, have you seen lou have kind of the decisive losses that have been alluded to? Like he's kind of had a lot of quicker quicker reps where they're getting the quarterback on him. Have you seen that in practice? Yeah, in one-on-ones there are times where the the way he loses is the same way that the way he wins, and they're just very decisive. So it's like his first rep up, he'll get beat cleanly, and and you'll sort of you'll turn to the reporter next year and go, ooh, that didn't look good.
Speaker: great i mean And then one week later, he'll go and just kick the guy's ass and just like, like clearly there's just like, it's something where it's, he's got to get his feet under him. He's got to get his feet wet.
Speaker: And I think that's just sort of something getting used to playing right tackle. And sure. It might seem easy to switch from left tackle to right tackle from the college level of the NFL, but it's a big jump up and everyone in the nfl is bigger faster tougher stronger um and i think it's just something where and this will come with time but he's a 21 year old that's still trying to pick up the position and so there's a time where his first rep is oh he'll not look too good but the second one looks a lot better and i think that's that's what practices are for and It's training camp, and it's a first-round pick in a big sports market, so everything's going to get overblown.
Speaker: um But I think that there are decisive losses. There have been decisive losses where you look down, and I write 74X. like it's just It's not a good rep, but he comes back and doesn't really have that bad of a rep immediately right after.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, pivoting quick to his ah a guy one year older than him, Will Campbell has been showing up I mean, showing up, showing out in camp, he looks you look good. I think, you know, obviously he's healthy, but it just looks more his technique's good. And, you know, when I was down there, he looked good. um You know, again, most reports are he looks like, you know, maybe a little bit stronger. His technique's improved a little bit. he's um I don't know, can vary his approach. It seems like it was couple when he was training with other linemen this summer, it's really paid off. I mean, what have you seen from Campbell? I mean, are you are you impressed by Campbell, what do he looks like?
Speaker: Yeah, he just looks stronger. He just looks better. Looks yeah like a more polished pro. Last year, once the start of his career was it was fine, right? like it was It was good. It's ah a player that you want to be your left tackle for the next 10 years. um and it was fine like it was there were a few sacks given up there were a few pancakes but it was it was nothing sounding the alarm bells and then he got hurt and then he just did not look like the same player and it was clearly the mcl impacted him on the field whether he said he was fine or not it was clearly hindering his performance on the field he looks healthy he looks like the mcl is not an issue um
Speaker: And so he looks really good, and that could change, obviously, but he looks like a completely different player than we saw in the playoffs. um Part of that is just because he's healthy, and he's he's at full strength now, and he said that he got stronger, he got better, he just looks leaner, more polished at left tackle, and I think that just sort of comes with – being in your second year and you take that sophomore your year jump and you understand what it's like to be a professional and you're not just sort of flying by the seat your pants like you know how to go about this and we talked to doug barone the offensive line coach two days ago and he said that he understands how to be a pro you're in college and you're in off season and
Speaker: You take ah a few weeks off because it's your your college kid. This is it. It seems like we'll just went at it all the time. and And so I think that's a good thing. And he looks a lot better than the last time we saw him when when they played Seattle.
Speaker: Do you think the Will Campbell guard talk? kind of goes away this year like he plays well enough that yeah we we drop that narrative yeah i solely because where are you going to put a mic on window and elijah tucker are two great guards so it's like it's it's you either play on a left tackle or you want to move him to guard on the backup so like i i just think it's solely because they added elijah tucker um that sort of wipes that conversation away I've never really liked the conversation about that. Like there are guys who have short arms and play tackle. And I think a lot of that was exacerbated through the the bad playoffs. And you're like, Oh, well,
Speaker: We've got to move him to guard. I think that's the one thing I think that they missed and that this is like, I mean, controversial is the wrong word, but like in the playoffs, I think obviously Campbell wasn't right, as we know with the MCL injury. Like he wasn't right.
Speaker: He couldn't handle anything in the postseason. And so I think they would have been better off playing Vidarian low at left tackle in the postseason. And I don't think that's like an an insane take. I think you have a healthy person versus a an injured person. Although even though he's not listed, you know, necessarily on the injury report, he clearly wasn't right. And so I know it's not not trying to be necessarily hot takey. It just obviously, it's just hindsight's 20-20. It just didn't work.
Speaker: Yeah, it's one of those things where it's like you got to play the hot hand, right? And hindsight's 20-20 and you're like, well, Will didn't look good in the playoffs. Maybe Vidarian Lowe looks better, and he had come off you know a solid end of his season when he replaced Will. But you know you were playing just unbelievable defense after unbelievable defense. For all we know, a healthy Vidarian Lowe was just the same as a banged-up Will Campbell, and they're getting destroyed. maybe So that's sort of the conversation you have, and now Vidarian Lowe I think is hurt in San Francisco, and Will Campbell looks as healthy as ever in New England.
Speaker: Yeah, true. um So for Akis to be because Brett brought Akis up, um you know, i went through his reps again. on the I just want to look at all the rookie reps. So Akis' reps, he had 14 pass rush reps um and just like not a lot there. I mean, again, watching all of them, he had that one decent rep where he's bull rush and got in the quarterback's face.
Speaker: And you know, it relates to the Vildor or whatever, uh, interception, which that's great. It was good bull rush. He didn't like push him all the way back in the quarterback, but he, he created enough distraction, right. Where it it leads to an interception. Um, the rest of the game though, I mean, it was, he was a non factor at all. I know it's a preseason, but like, you gotta get up. It's your first game. Like you get to get up, get up for it. I don't even think, I think I saw him attempt to speed rush, like attempt one.
Speaker: And i think, which, It is what it is. And I think that's what Vrabel again in his press conference is kind of alluding to, the fact that he's like, i need we need more out of him. and And apparently they say it showed up in practice. He looked really good with the ones. So, Ethan, how did he look with the ones ah the the other day?
Speaker: Yeah, I think he has the highest ceiling out of anyone they drafted. I just think from a pure talent standpoint, like he can be your number one pass rusher. But he's so – he's behind because he missed so much football that – you know The speed and the talent can only make up for so much, and he's still just learning on the fly, and he's repping with the ones. Vrabel said it what two days ago one day ago. was like His progress is okay, but it needs to be better. and so I think that the fact that the the edge rusher position is a little bit of a question mark, especially with Harold Landry out.
Speaker: you sort of expect him to be, you know, we need to put this guy in and play immediately. He looked good in practice, but I mean, after one preseason game, you haven't really seen the same consistent getting after the passer that that we saw, you know, on the practice fields every day.
Speaker: um But I get he's still a little just a little behind because he yeah had his knee, his knee procedure and and he didn't sign until deepened – well, didn't sign until the first day camp but didn't come back until a few days after that. He should have been there all spring. He should have – I wish all that – It's just that was – I mean, it was good to finally get him under contract. But because if that had bled into right now and he was still unsigned, then it's a real – a real issue that you have. But I think he has the highest upside. i think he's like a perfect Vrabel guy. Like he's a guy that can put his hand in the dirt and get after the quarterback. I just think he's behind and and the speed is there. The talent is there. He can knock down outside linebackers coach Mike Smith with ease during practice with the pad on. It's just that translates to the game.
Speaker: One weekend, not really. But, I mean, you're not going to get rid of the second-round guy that you traded traded up for after one preseason game. He clearly has talent. It's just, like again, like he is raw, and they need to coach him. But, like, you can't – I know there was no like big third and fifteens like 10 years back, not too many plays like that in preseason game. But, like, you've got to make a speed rush. I mean, you've got to attempt it at some point when you're – I didn't see it didn't see a lot of that on tape. But I'm hoping after the second preseason game we see some that.
Speaker: Well, I mean, that's just going to my point. Like, not to belittle the position, but, like, it's just get after the quarterback, right? It's not like you're doing some elaborate – We have to set an edge to – like, there's other responsibilities, but, like, yes. I get it. I get it. You have to understand, like, are you responsible for setting the edge? Is there a stunt? Like, what are we doing? I get that concept. I get it.
Speaker: But you have to it's not like – it's not like a quarterback trying to learn a new play block or aj brown trying to learn the new offense like there's levels to the complexity of the position and if you're in that position and your job is to get after the quarterback you got to get after the quarterback and you got to show that like want and i guess that's the part that i'm looking for i don't i don't know if we're gonna get it if he's just that's just not the kind of nature of a guy he is the billing is that he is like he's a freak athlete and he's gonna show up and
Speaker: do what he can do to basically disrupt the offense. And we need that. Like to your point, like we need it right now. Landry's down. We weren't big depth to begin with. This is the most glaring hole we have on our entire team is at a defensive end.
Speaker: And we essentially need our second round pick to step up and play with the ones and produce and be a solid contributor. And so I'm not expecting him to go out blazing, but at the same time, like,
Speaker: I don't want a slow step. I don't want a processing. There's really not a lot to process here. Like, are you setting the edge? are you getting after the quarterback? Are you going around and like, what are we doing?
Speaker: Like, what are we doing? I mean, you're right in some sense. If you, if you simplify it, like you need guys to affect the quarterback. I think Drabel himself said that you need guys who affect the quarterback in this league, but it's a down, down tackles, edge rushers. Like you need guys who can do that. And that is what they need Atkins to do, and he's going to show up. I mean, I think that position is concerning, obviously. You know, we'veve people have talked about that ad nauseum. You don't know what Harold Landry is going to do. He's kind of washed washed a little bit. We'll see. Maybe he's not. Maybe he comes back. But had a really tough time at end of last season dealing with that injury.
Speaker: um Let's pivot it to the joint practice only because – you know, the efforts of time. Ethan, what are you looking forward to the most out of the joint practice? Like, what is something you want to watch specifically? I mean, that the easy layup answer is AJ Brown, right? And Eagles fans are online are losing their minds and they they are pumped up for this. And Philly fans travel well.
Speaker: And so there's going to be 10,000 people there, as many as they could possibly pack on those fields. And and then the Rams, And every single A.J. Brown rep, every single one will be under a microscope. It could be during a positional drill. It could be against no defensive backs, and he's just playing catch with Matt Collins on the sideline.
Speaker: Every time he drops a pass, there's going to be ridiculous cheers from these Phillies fans. like every thing that Every single thing that A.J. Brown does is going to have some reaction of some sort. And that's, of course, going to fire up all the Patriots fans who he's going to – know make a touchdown over Quinion Mitchell, and the place is going to nuts. And so I think just on paper, the A.J. Brown reunion, Philly, that just is going to be the most exciting thing to see tomorrow.
Speaker: um i'm just um That's like the easy layup slam dunk answer right there is is how well how how will A.J. Brown perform against, you know,
Speaker: two thirds New England fans and based off of of what 24 look like at their joy practice, you know, a third of the stands would probably be Philly fans. Yeah, they'll travel. They'll travel very well to this event. They're going to be jacked up. Brett, how what are you looking forward to seeing?
Speaker: Yeah, it's crazy to think, like, this is training camp. It's probably going to be better than what you see for preseason games. Like, oh just the overall atmosphere. Even, like, late season games, you're going have a pretty crazy atmosphere. But for me, it's Drake May because – Look, he is the guy that's going to make the engine go.
Speaker: And we need him to continuously show growth, development, and control of the offense. So far to this point, seems to be the case. These are the snippets we're going to get because he's just not going to play in a preseason. So we need to see what he looks like in his joint practices and how efficient he can be with the ah offense.
Speaker: You know, good showing so far to this point. Higher level of play, I would think. I mean, I know the Colts are a solid defense, but I think Philly is a better overall team, and i think they have a better defense.
Speaker: So it's going to be interesting to see how the offensive line does and kind of that sort of setup. But, yeah, I mean, i don't want him to be forcing it to Brown just to kind of shut everyone up and go through, unless it's there. Then it's like, you know.
Speaker: whatever, put your dick on the table and let's go. i think i want to see the guy show up consistently and continue to grow development and just show ownership. Cause right now he just looks like a baller.
Speaker: Like he just looks like every, every day out there and how he's progressing through camp. Like, just a lot of good feel about it. I want to see that carry through it and continue on momentum. And I want to see the offense show up because that was the biggest thing that was hovering over us after the Super Bowl. walk How was our offense going to look? They were so inept in that game.
Speaker: I want them to continue to grow and Brown's going to help them do that. But may is essentially the person that's going to really dictate their success in that. And I want to see how he shows up in another joint practice.
Speaker: It was crazy that like you know people think, oh, AJ, you know if it was you right on the field, you'd be like, oh, man, there's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of people. you know They're watching me. There's lot this pressure. I'm like, someone like AJ Brown, he's a different cat. you know like This dude lives on pressure.
Speaker: Like he lives on this emotion. going to talk about his first practice with with Gonzo. He just needs to get in that flow state and he needs the competition. He needs the intensity. Like this dude's all world. i know I hype him up every single podcast, but like he's been one of my favorite receivers for a long time. I wanted him since the Patriots didn't draft him.
Speaker: um and he's And he's a monster, dude. And I love how he plays the game. He's a tough guy. And again, aura hype, whatever the the kids want to call it. Ethan's probably lot younger than we are. But but he's ah he's a beast, dude.
Speaker: You know, I think it's... on talent alone probably the best receiver they've had since rainy moss i don't think that's really a question other than gronk if you want to if you want right right but yeah you're a wide receiver as much as it pains the uh the wes welker loving fan in me it It's the the best receiver this offensive has had since Randy Moss, just in terms of the physicality, the way they construct the field.
Speaker: um And it the fact that you can pair him up with Romeo Dobbs, too, who probably would have been an equally just like you replace Romeo Dobbs or Stefan Diggs with Romeo Dobbs one for one. You're like, OK, that's a solid offseason.
Speaker: Then you add A.J. Brown, who really will take the pump off this defense. um Yeah, I think it's going be so exciting to watch because every move going dissected.
Speaker: um And you know that you know Drake and A.J. are probably dialing up some deep throw just to just to set the tone. for immediately First play. first First play, second play. Well, like Philly, well, first of all, i mean, Philly has a good roster. Let's let's not make two A's. Like, Philly still has a good roster. I think their offense, though, obviously without AJ and, like, Devontae is their number one now.
Speaker: But, like – Hurts, I'm like Hurts had a pretty, pretty mediocre season last year. he wasn't very good. He really doesn't throw over the middle. He has issues with certain parts of his game. We don't have to dissect Jalen Hurts, but um I don't expect their offense to do a ton against the Patriots first defense in practice.
Speaker: I am interested to see how like the, the, the line play holds up. Cause like Philly's lines, nasty, nasty, nasty, that old line there, they're gross. And like so say, you know, say quant like,
Speaker: you got like you got You got people there, man. You got some real talented people, just not necessarily at the wide receiver role, not necessarily at quarterback all the way, but they have a ton of talent. And how about their D-line? I mean, their D-line, how does their D-line hold up against the Patriots O-line?
Speaker: Like, what does that look like? How's Elijah Vera Tucker look? Does he go against Jalen Carter? You know, like, it's too bad. Jonathan Grenard's not playing. You don't get to see him against Will Campbell. um That would have been a really interesting matchup. But, like, these there's some dudes – On Philadelphia, i just don't think necessarily the quarterback has it to take him this year.
Speaker: But there's some dudes on that team. That's all i'm saying. There's some talent. Jordan Davis. like um ah it's ah It's a stacked front that will test. It's going to be the toughest test the Patriots have.
Speaker: Bro, you know how deep they were? and was All summer. Like two years ago when they won the Super Bowl, do you know how deep that Philly roster was? I mean, we're talking about one of the better rosters. Really? yeah Yeah, Mill Williams was like their backup.
Speaker: You'd come in and get like three sacks in the Super Bowl. Just a freak show. You know, i love Mill Williams. He's awesome. So um anyway, yeah, I think it's going to be sick. um and know there's a couple guys, another one, just one thing to touch on. couple guys came in for a visit today.
Speaker: Shaq Thompson and what is it? Daquan, Daquan Jones, a couple of vets. And i just want to reflect on the fact that the team is now in a position where they're good enough and people like the team and the coach enough that they're getting solid vets in for late camp visits to be like, Hey, I don't want to do camp.
Speaker: Like, you want to sign me? Like, I'll come in for cheap. Can we win a Super Bowl? You know, that like, they're getting those dudes again. That's where you need to fucking be. Like, that's what you need. Like, they didn't have this shit for years now. Like, people stopped doing that with Belichick after Brady left.
Speaker: Like, you need to get back in this rhythm of, like, we can sign the the vet. We can take on this player. So, you have any interest in those players, Ethan? Yeah. Yeah, Shaq Thompson solely for the fact that he used to be drafted by the Red Sox. And I think that's just a great story. That's cool story.
Speaker: And so there's pictures of him posing in front of the Green Monster and everything. ah But yeah, I think Shaq Thompson would be great. um They have linebackers. Chad Mumma hasn't been there for the last few days. And so the guys that have been repping in are KJ Britt, quite a good preseason. And then rookies Namdi Obiazo and Khalil Jacobs, who Jacobs has looked really good with the second string. I think he'll probably make the team.
Speaker: But anytime you can add someone like Shaq Thompson, even though he's sort of on the back end of his career, you want to take that. And I think that that's sort of something that the team will be, know, just sort of – they they've floated it out there now, and we'll see. And maybe someone goes down. and the I don't think they have a dire need to to add a linebacker.
Speaker: Like it's not something that – like offensive guard where they needed someone. Like think you can wait to see how the preseason plays out and maybe someone gets banged up. maybe someone gets claimed off waivers and you've done sort of the homework to to look at those guys.
Speaker: um But yeah, i to your point, I think it's we're in a position now where the Patriots are a desirable place to play. I think it's the first time in, quite a while now at this point um i think it's good for the culture that vrables established i think it's you know people want to play with a good quarterback people want to play with a good culture and a good coach and you know a defense that says they want to be the number one scoring defense in the league like that's something you want to play in um and it's been a while since that happened so i think it's i think if this is not gonna the first time this is not gonna be the last time that we see
Speaker: you know, established NFL veterans who are still on the market, just coming for a visit. We'll see. We'll, we'll take you around the tour if you like it and we'll, we'll keep you in our back pocket. I love that.
Speaker: I think it's like, Brad, do you think anyone else they should be targeting or any position group? The end. Just never get enough edge guys, edge specialists. See what you can get. I mean, Joey Bosa signed anyone anywhere yet?
Speaker: I don't think so. don't still out there floating around as you're retiring.
Speaker: I think he's still out there. But, you know, someone like that even, you would just have to get him in on the cheap. You know, that's the problem. It's like you just got be like, hey, man. Just like um Van Roten. They got Van Roten in for like $3 million. bucks Like that's that's NFL money. They brought him in for a workout a week ago and let him sort of simmer and they waited and – two guys got banged up and then he, they go and they sign three interior offensive linemen and Van Roen's probably now your top backup guard. And so he'll probably make the roster at this point. It feels like just solely. Yeah. I think so. Right.
Speaker: And then Ben Brown was obviously we'll see when he comes back, but like, don't know. The interior was pretty poor. So I don't I like, you can always improve on the edge. I think that's a, that the team's not like, it's not the 2024, but,
Speaker: Eagles where you feel like almost at every single position, they're nasty, except a couple are like not quite as good. Like this, this has some incredibly high level talent. And generally the talent has the talent pools improved everywhere, which is, which is wonderful, but it's just not hit the level, um, of like, you know, you're not looking at them like the 2007 Patriots or like 20, 2014 Patriots or something where you're like, this roster is sick everywhere.
Speaker: You know, like they had like a, all the holes were were filled in a lot of places. So, um But, yeah, man, I think it's going to be – it should be a really fun practice for you guys going down there. I think – you know, i wish I wish I could be there tomorrow. I can't be there tomorrow. I'll be there Thursday where we'll have our big our big kind of event. So that will be a lot of fun. But i mean anything else do you guys want to get off your chest before we wrap it up and get ready for your joint practices tomorrow?
Speaker: I'll give you the floor, Brett, if you want to say something.
Speaker: mean Just sign Gonzalez. I want to wake up to a Gonzalez contract. There's always something with this goddamn team that just holds you over. like It was Brown all freaking spring. like What are we doing? What are we doing? What are we doing? And now it's finally, okay, we got him. Great. And now it's like, okay, what going to do about Gonzalez? And I've been chirping about this for months.
Speaker: I just want to wake up that get done. I'm tired of dealing with it. I don't like the hypotheticals back and forth. Just get it over with so we can talk more about football and not worry about our top five player on the team not being there.
Speaker: Just wait until the Drake May 1 starts next year. and get You know what? I i just have a feeling with Drake, though, because there's such a knowledge that you can't function as an organization without a good quarterback in the NFL. There's just no possible way to function in the modern NFL. Sure, if you want to go back and we could – if Snooty was on the pod – we could go back to when you could win championships with a subpar quarterback, but like in the modern NFL, it's very, very, very difficult. Again, you need a team like the 2024 Eagles where they were nasty everywhere and Hertz didn't have to be amazing. And he, and he was, he had a really good post-season run, but, um but you need in this league now, you need an elite quarterback to win. That's just how the league is structured at this point. So I think with Drake,
Speaker: I don't think they fuck around much. I think even early, early, like in that that year, you know, when they're like – once he's eligible it's gonna be like all right let's go like what are we what do we need to do how high how much money he's gonna get 70 million dollars a year i don't know don't know what drake wants like this drake the kind of guy who's like i need like gonzales is like i need the most money humanly possible and i'm willing to not play somewhat to to get this money right like i don't know
Speaker: if Drake feels the same way, i don't know. Maybe he'll be like, I'm comfortable at X percent of the cap, you know, instead of let's say 25% of the cap, he wants 22% of the cap. I don't know. I don't know what he wants. Right. But he might be one of those dudes. It's like, I want a really good fair deal that so we can keep signing more guys or he wants top crazy, massive money like everyone else. So,
Speaker: I don't know. i don't know if there's any indication either way, but, um but we'll see. It should be, should be fun. all right. Well, if anything else you want to plug or, or, or contribute, you want to talk about your pod at all? Anything you want to plug? Yeah. Yeah. cover the Patriots for Patriots on SI.
Speaker: It's the Sports Illustrated site for them. um So check me out there. They're pretty consistently almost every day. um Sophie Weller and I just started a new podcast, fourth and Foxborough. We dropped that.
Speaker: um that'll follow if you want new episode don't know maybe friday i think we're doing a preview and then we'll do a post game at three in the morning after the game on saturday too um but yeah that' that's crazy it's hey it's gotta get you fired up for preseason football right um and my twitter her with sports um i retweeted the live stream so just follow me there if you want uh if not whatever i don't care um but yeah that's that's where i am i'll be at every Patriots event, you know, near or far as, as, as best I can do it. So if you see me at training camp, say hi. If you see me at the harp, say hi. If you see me in traffic, just honk, I guess. um
Speaker: But yeah, that's, that's all I got to plug. Nice man. All right. Well, we'll see some people listening. We'll we'll catch everybody in in two days. We'll have a big live stream and it'll be on this. It'll be on my ex and and YouTube and all that. We'll be live streaming. probably for like two hours worth of stuff and a lot of giveaways. So it should be a blast.
Speaker: I'm sure something unexpected will happen that we don't know is going to happen. We might have some special guests drop maybe from the radio. We'll see how it goes. So it should be should be a lot of fun. So, all right, guys, take it easy. Appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker: Peace. Peace.
