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Episode 4: PhDreamers
47 Plays4 months ago
In this episode, the Lunch Hour Podcast welcomes PreHealth Dreamers to discuss DACA, undocumented students, and the challenges these students face when pursuing careers in healthcare.
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Transcript
Introduction to DACA and Dreamers
00:00:00
Speaker
DACA, or Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, is a U.S. immigration policy that offers temporary protection from deportation and work permits to individuals who arrived in the U.S. as children. Known as Dreamers, they face many challenges but are determined to create a better future for themselves, their communities, and the nation.
00:00:23
Speaker
in this episode of The Lunch Hour.
Mission of Pre-Health Dreamers (PhD)
00:00:25
Speaker
We'll explore how PhDreamers, an organization dedicated to expanding access to education and healthcare care for immigrant communities, is helping to create equitable support systems. We'll also provide valuable insights for advisors on how to better understand, support, and advocate for this resilient and inspiring group of students.
Purpose of The Lunch Hour Podcast
00:01:00
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to the lunch hour, the official podcast of NAP's Committee on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. NAP is the National Association of Advisors for the Health Professions. Each episode, we seek to educate, connect, and grow together as a community, working to help prepare and support tomorrow's health care leaders.
00:01:23
Speaker
We have a really exciting episode today. We are welcoming an organization doing really important work in our space, in addition to other spaces. And as normal, we have some wonderful folks from the Committee on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.
00:01:40
Speaker
So we're going to get started by sort of ah welcoming our NAP members who are here to help with our podcast today. And then we will get to our wonderful, wonderful guests. So um we're going to get started with our friend Tani Prokopo. Tani, will you please introduce yourself for the listeners today?
Guest Introductions: Rocio and Flavia
00:01:59
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you Hello, my name is Tani Prokopo. I serve as the Director of Health Professions Advising at the University of Michigan-Dearborn.
00:02:09
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Lovely. Zuri, you can introduce yourself. Hello, everyone. Zuri here from Hopkins as the assistant director for pre-professional advising and well as co-chair along with Tani on NAPCD. All right. We also have our friend, Taya, joining us today. Taya, will you say hello?
00:02:34
Speaker
Hi, my name is Sarah Johnson. I'm non-clear and I'm a pre-health professional advisor. All right, so I always do this. I forget to introduce myself. um Yeah, you can't be great at everything. My thing I'm terrible at is remembering to tell people my name.
00:02:50
Speaker
So my name is John, this is Bronson. Many of you may know me from when I worked at Penn State for a number of years in health professions advising, but I am now at Elon University in beautiful Elon, North Carolina. So we are going to go ahead and introduce our guests. We're so excited. Will you two please introduce yourselves to our listeners?
Training and Licensure Challenges
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, of course. um Hi, everybody. My name is Rocio Mianta Navarro. I am the networking and training manager for Pre-Health Dreamers. And my name is Flavia. I'm also at Pre-Health Dreamers. I lead the Launchpad program there.
00:03:31
Speaker
Wonderful. Thank you both so much for taking the time to talk with us. This is a population that we talk a lot about in our field. like If you look at a lot of the posts on what we call our Health Prof 2.0, this is a population that a lot of advisors have lots of questions about.
00:03:54
Speaker
Need to know more and so we are really really excited to have this conversation today So I'm not gonna be your host today. I just get things started and sort of let things go So I think Tony you're gonna start us off and and starting the sort of questioning interviewee portion If you're good with that Great. Well, thank you. Um so um
00:04:26
Speaker
Tell us about yourselves, if you could, by stating your name, your role, your professional role, and a little bit about your background, what you like, um hobbies and interests. Yeah, I can go first. And again, thank you, everybody, for having us here. It is a pleasure to be sharing this space with you. um Again, my name is Rocio Miente Navarro. I am the networking and training manager for pre-health dreamers.
00:04:55
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And the role I play within Pre-Halt Dreamers, I am the one leading a lot of our trainings for institutions, our partnering institutions. I do a lot of trainings for ah health professional professional advising staff, counselors, directors, um individuals who are, in a sense, supporting students, as well as also do trainings for students who are pursuing a health career on ways that other individuals have been able to be successful and in the application cycle, their way through the health profession program and beyond.
Rocio's Journey and Role
00:05:32
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um That is what I do here at Pearl's Dubris. A little bit about my background, I went to community college, then to undergraduate, and I recently finished a master's in biomedical science.
00:05:49
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um Yes, it was Interesting experience. Uh, I loved it. Uh, something I do off the clock recently, I have become a dog mom for the second time, uh, raising a puppy is a little difficult at the moment, but she's wonderful.
Flavia's Leadership in Launchpad
00:06:05
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Um, and I also enjoy crocheting, um, and also hiking with my partner. Lovely.
00:06:16
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And to pop in off of Rocio, my name is Flavia. i Like I mentioned earlier, your lead the Launchpad program at Pre-Health Dreamers. um A big challenge we addressed is is the confusion around licensure and and work authorization. Questions like, can we you get licensed without a social security number? Or how do you start a business as a health care professional?
00:06:41
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um Launchpad dives into these issues and and provides some clarity. We started out with student cohorts because we thought the students need to know this. The students need to know how to get from point A finishing their program to point B. How do I actually make money out of all the things I've studied?
00:07:01
Speaker
But then we realized that educators also need to know this information because we are the ones leading students in this field. A lot of the time, students come to us without the realization, without any facts or knowledge about the topic. And it's our duty to give them some clearance and some guidance. um And so we kind of are are launching this cohort with educators. And I'm really excited to not only talk about the the program, but also talk about the the problem that we're hopefully solving and with with the program and overall with Pre-Hell Dreamers. um i My background is actually very heavily in the sciences. I have a dual degree in biochemistry and neurophysiology, and then I have a master's in bioinformatics. So I spent a lot of time in research um as a student, and I came to Pre-Hell Dreamers as a student. I was actually um on the student face of this organization.
00:07:57
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The issue to me became more of a core problem during the Trump era when a lot of actions were taken against our community. And I thought, if not now, when do I get more involved? And so that's how my progression through pre-health dreamer started. um and And it's a huge passion of mine, because as we know, we're going to be in a Trump era again pretty soon, and and we have to be proactive now more than ever, not only for our community, but for our students if you're a counselor and advisor listening to this. So I'm happy to be here and happy to start a conversation. Awesome. um I'm going to jump in. um I am really excited to have you all. um I've been able to
00:08:50
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hear pH streamers throughout some other events through
Breaking Barriers in Healthcare Education
00:08:54
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NAP and um they were actually ah guest speakers on NAP leads. I know Yadi was one of the speakers for that and we've been really grateful for the insights and the information this organization has provided and in helping pre-health advisors really support students holistically. um I know since 2012, the organization has molded and expanded its reach. So I guess like, if we can kind of start to talk a little bit about the context um in which um you all are here now, I know, Fabio, you kind of went ahead and hinted that, you know, current events start to,
00:09:38
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prioritize or help you reprioritize what um you're going to do as an organization. But could you get us started by letting us know what is the clear mission and vision of um PH Dreamers and how um how has the work really focused in on this population in the, like we can even say in the last five years being that there's been a lot of transitions in that time.
00:10:03
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i I'd love to answer this, Lucia, if I can. I'll be more quiet for the following questions, but... No, go for it. I think at its core, Pre-Held Dreamers is about opening doors. We are focused on expanding the access to education and healthcare care for immigrant communities.
00:10:25
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particularly now a growing undocumented and non-DAPA student population. um So we break down a lot of misconceptions to Rocio's work we meet with institutions and to my work and to other colleagues work we meet with students one-on-one.
00:10:41
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um who often can't use their degrees or licenses, and we instead bring this kind of facet of empowering them to thrive. And I think in our community, saying yes to someone, saying yes to a student, yeah, you can work with your degree, is sometimes goes a long, long way for that student that's been said no to so, so many times.
00:11:07
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And I... Power of yes. Yes, yes. Go ahead. I can definitely expand on on what Flavia said. I think she summed us up perfectly um
Statistics on Undocumented Individuals
00:11:20
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about providing opening doors and resources for undocumented students. We do have ah an official mission and vision. It's a little bit wordy. I tend to just tell people that we help undocumented students pursuing a career in the health field.
00:11:36
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um Undocumented meeting individuals with DACA without DACA with TPS or refugee. We're seeing more sages, which is a special juvenile. um I forget the acronym, but they tend to come when they're younger into the United States.
00:11:53
Speaker
ah So there the immigration system is very complex and it's changing. It always changes. So um the best way we know how to support students is by ah providing resources and ways that other students have been able to also complete their degree apply to a certain health profession school ah in my role.
00:12:14
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At real dreamers, I am currently leading the undocu edu, which we do ah focus more on institutions on directors, advisors of um health, professional programs, or ah or is colleges or universities, ah the main.
00:12:33
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reason for this program is that we see a lot of individuals don't know where to start. They have the heart. They want to support their undocumented students. They 100% believe that their student hundred percent believe that they're student can be successful in these programs, but where ah so how do I begin?
00:12:52
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ah And we help provide that we help bridge that knowledge gap and we help also connect um those schools with other schools who have successfully been able to admit students um also support them retention graduation rates. That's something that we really focus on on better ways to support our students. ah Some of these schools have certain requirements that Undocumented students can't even get past the admissions page because they need to input a social security number. So we're trying to view this in a lesson holistic lens of not just ah the main financial aid aspect or licensure portion, but also is your campus accessible to undocumented students? Is there a partnership with certain, um certain ah authorities or legal institutions
00:13:43
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um that may make it feel a little bit unsafe to be even physically on campus. um we We try to take a look ah holistically and help advise that way. Rosio, can you give us a sense of the size of this population? I think most advisors don't have a real sense of like, I think the volume of what you're dealing with. This is not a small number.
00:14:11
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No, no, no. I always tell advisors it's not it's not if you are going to run into an undocumented student. It's when and are you going to be prepared to ah be able to advise them in in ah respectful, responsible way and also in a way where you're not um like crushing someone's dreams.
00:14:32
Speaker
i um And I can definitely go into that as we continue this conversation. But right now there is around 11.5 million undocumented individuals in the United States.
00:14:46
Speaker
ah that number um is predicted to continue growing, but those are the most recent numbers. um And in higher education alone, there is around 550,000 undocumented students. So we're talking about comm community colleges, we're talking about undergraduate institutions, we're talking about professional health programs, law schools, whatever secondary education, higher education means, that's what um where our students are at. So this isn't just a small percentage of students. um Maybe a student population may not feel comfortable comfortable outright disclosing their status. So the they may not, individuals may not know that they are there. But are if we're really asking the question and thinking about this in percentage wise, statistically wise, like you are going to be advising a documented student sooner or later.
00:15:41
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you. Oh, go ahead. Please go. Yeah. And also just to put a little bit of numbers into context, at the current population of undocumented individuals in the United States with DACA is 4.5%.
00:15:58
Speaker
so the real, the population that, or the larger population that even pre-health dreamers is serving are individuals without any type of legal protections, without social security numbers or employment authorization. um And this is just the trend that we're going to see, ah continue to see because doctor recipients are already, the youngest one should be around 26 at the moment. ah They're already working professionals. They've gone to graduate school.
00:16:27
Speaker
They're either on their tail end of their educational journey, if the goal was to go to graduate school, but they are in their, in their, yeah, they're older. They're not yeah youth anymore.
00:16:44
Speaker
It's such a hard population to sort of wrap our heads around because I think but when when this policy was enacted, right it was it was many, many years ago. Like you said, the youngest person is like 26. And I think for a lot of us, it sort of dropped off our radar to a certain extent because they were so young and I feel like so many of them have moved through our institutions with almost very little fanfare or like attention to them and so to a certain degree I kind of feel like we're playing catch up and obviously we have more time to have the conversation later but uh let's let's move on with our prepared questions I just and that was firing neurons in my brain and it needed to jump out of said brain
00:17:30
Speaker
No, that was really helpful. I think we got to hear the numbers. Um, yeah to like you said, realize that it is more likely that you will be coming in contact and it's about understanding at least where to even get resources from. So kudos to the website, too. I have definitely used the website as an orienting um aspect and and had um a number of students um pointed them in the direction of utilizing PhDreamers as a way to facilitate very nuanced information. So we appreciate you all and and the resources you have provided. um I had a quick follow up and
00:18:09
Speaker
Um, and then we'll, like we said, we'll go to it. But I was wondering, like, um, outside of the numbers too, um, can you talk about regionally where, cause of course we have, um, the national association and, um, where spread across the United States, but there are.
00:18:29
Speaker
um particular areas in the United States where it might be um more in number that they are, so advisors are likely going to come in contact with a larger number. And so I guess off the top of your head, do you know like um in terms of what regions there might be an increase so that maybe certain advisors in like our Western region, which is like California and um up until maybe Arizona and our central and things like that,
00:18:56
Speaker
um could be, I know for Northeast, we we see it quite a bit in the the metro area, um but just some context around where maybe there's, you've seen more assistance, in some schools maybe even that come to mind in general, like not specific.
00:19:15
Speaker
I mean, I think that's a hard question, right? Because it's not like we can track folks. It's not like we can, you know, put the number on every student and be like, oh, there's more here, more here. I can tell you from my programming, we get a lot of folks from California and New York.
00:19:33
Speaker
and kind of hotspot states like that, right? Popular states. When you think about, you know, I'm going to go live the American dream, right? What states are you, you're looking at like the Big Apple in New York, you're looking at, so kind of getting into the perspective of folks kind of going in that department or sometimes folks go to California because they have family there, you know, there could be a myriad of factors for where somebody kind of localizes.
00:19:59
Speaker
um so So it's hard. I think what is interesting is, for example, I'm very close to Hopkins because I live in Maryland. I live about 50 minutes from from Hopkins. You would be surprised to know how many folks in Maryland alone, right a state that sometimes is kind of forgotten or in the background in the very least, um are in higher ed.
00:20:22
Speaker
right I think we had like 9,700 last day checked in in higher ed alone in the state, right? And so to Rocio's point as to not if just when you're going to meet an undocumented student and goes to show you that it's not necessarily concentrated in one state alone, but that every educator, regardless of the state, should be equipped with the resources and tools needed to understand how and and When to guide it and then document students. And, and also, fla flavi thank you ah for that answer because we.
Support Strategies for Undocumented Students
00:21:00
Speaker
do get contacts. We do get students from all over the country. We're a national non-profit, so we're getting individuals from Wisconsin, Texas, ah Nevada, even in states that we may think are not as immigrant-friendly. ah Some of the southern states, we get a large number of students who are contacting us because they need additional support, because they're looking for it and they can't find it. So they are looking for some guidance in what would be next steps. And we've had individuals move to states that are more accessible to immigrants or undocumented individuals. Certain states have certain policies in place that allows undocumented individuals to ah pursue professional health licensure or professional licensure in general with an item to number or even driver's license.
00:21:53
Speaker
So we do see a larger concentration of our students coming from those states. But again, we also see a large number of students coming from states that you may not necessarily um think of. The one right off the top of my head is Georgia. I've had a couple of students recently in the recent months from asking for from help in Georgia, which was surprising to me since it is a state in the South. um and But we've again, we've had students from all across across the country but reach out to us. Really helpful. So when you're um talking about working with doctor the students and working with this particular population, what are some specific strategies or resources that you use? And what have you found to be particularly beneficial?
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah, ah so a lot of it is going to be location based, which has what state are you in, let's see what type of policies are in play that can either help you um pursue your education or pursue your health career.
00:23:02
Speaker
ah In licensure when we're talking about licensure, we're talking about the board of nursing or ah the board of medicine. Are they. In that state, are they able to apply for that license with an item to number with a social security or social security number? Is there a US citizenship requirement? ah So that's kind of where we base off for our.
00:23:25
Speaker
the direction of our conversation. ah There are certain states such as California that have policies in place stating that no school can deny an undocumented individual access to their program solely based on their immigration status. But we have some states that may not necessarily have those protections in place for a student. So then we have to ah talk about what the facts are. And that's kind of where we brace ourselves of, OK, this is where we're at. These are options and these are ways you can move forward. um And just giving your students options, being truthful and being very considerate about the way you're delivering it.
00:24:08
Speaker
ah Sometimes individuals just need to hear their ideas out loud for them to better brace themselves and learn where they want to navigate next. I think just to add on to that real quick, I think like it starts off with any.
00:24:25
Speaker
like any other counselor appointment, right? Where you first have to look at the student, and you have to meet with them, you have to ask them what they want. Sometimes a lot of our students have been told from a young kid, you have to be a doctor, right? And that's partially because, and and this happened to me as a kid, my parents only knew of one job in the entire healthcare care setting, being a doctor.
00:24:50
Speaker
They didn't know that a nurse existed. They didn't know a PA existed. They surely didn't know that you could have your own practice as an NP, right? And that's not them villainized, but that's because they just simply didn't know. And so telling the students that there are more pathways out there than just going to medical school is the first thing.
00:25:14
Speaker
Now, if they want to continue that journey, Hey, I really want to be a doctor. You know, I really want to, uh, fulfill my life goal of being a physician. Great. But now you know that there is more possibilities out there. Each possibility, each path comes with its own resistance, some more than others. Right. Um.
00:25:33
Speaker
But that's the first step. Then, like Rocio mentioned, with with networking and licensing and getting all of the minutiae in there and the and the policy work, that comes after. But it starts a lot of the time in our community with demystifying a lot of beliefs and notions that even the student carries, right? We see a lot of imposter syndrome. We have students going to medical school and saying like,
00:26:00
Speaker
I don't belong there, right? I know why am I here, right? And so it's breaking down a lot of those thoughts that are a little bit more boldened in our community. And again, i we don't want to give you a large And sir, that's going a lot of places, but this is a very complex and neat niche ah population. So we're having the intersection of being undocumented. We're at the intersection of trying to go into a health profession. So there's a lot of moving parts and it, it solely depends on what the individual needs and where they are at in their journey as well. um And we have a lot of resources on our website, so please check that out as well.
00:26:48
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, I think about the added challenge that these students would have, even if they were not undocumented, just being an applicant of color is so challenging. The linguistic diversity that they bring is very valuable to the patient, but sometimes it's detrimental in the different pieces of the process.
00:27:11
Speaker
you know As a committee, we talked to folks at the AAMC about how pieces of the MCAT are uniquely difficult for yeah ESL speakers who started with Spanish and how that disparity exists, but we don't talk about it. It's not acknowledged, but it's existent in the system. And so these embedded institutional structures are here. We're not talking about it.
00:27:39
Speaker
And how do we improve things that we're not talking about it? So you have such a huge job. I do not envy you um just because it's, you know, we know that each student is uniquely challenging.
00:27:56
Speaker
But those are the students with tons of resources are are uniquely challenged. You are working with students that have had every single possible resource stripped. And so you're just building from nothing. So not to like toot your horns, but like, I just want to acknowledge like game is recognizing game. You know what I mean?
00:28:19
Speaker
i I appreciate that. and i I completely, um completely have to also give it up to our scholars. They are phenomenal applicants, but phenomenal human beings in general. All the the students I've ever met with have their own like background story that meets them, who they are.
00:28:39
Speaker
and They've had to work 10 times harder. They've had to work in the shadows. They've had to be quiet about certain things that's happened to them. But again, they're so phenomenal humans. And honestly, like ah that's what makes the job worth it. Because these individuals who had a lot of barriers against them in the sense or placed there for um that, it's difficult for them to navigate.
00:29:06
Speaker
regardless you still want to continue they still want to pursue certain health fields they still even though like again as you stated institutional barriers um they are overlooking that and they're asking for for support even though some of them you're on the right track i cannot give you any advice because you're just so phenomenal any institution would be lucky to have you because of x y and z reasons um Yeah, the students are but literally what makes this job worth it. Talking to students is my best part of my job, other than answering my million emails.
00:29:42
Speaker
know right I love it. We feel your struggle. Right, legit. The emails are excellent in pre-health, for sure. Yeah. um I am, I'm curious to know, like knowing that the organization kind of informally started, what, 2012-ish.
Formation of Pre-Health Dreamers
00:30:00
Speaker
you see Yeah.
00:30:01
Speaker
Um, I guess from the historical point for both of you, um, I know flower, you said you started at it as a scholar and then, um, came to this side. So both from your unique experiences of how you engaged with, um, pH, uh, dreamers, what do you, what, what, um, maybe event happened after the inception of the organization. Do you think really helped hone in the focused effort that the organization, I mean, being part of like grassroots efforts.
00:30:32
Speaker
Um, it's almost like are they say in the innovation, you got to fall in love with the problem and not the solution because like, it's, it's one of those wicked problem type of situations where there's so many challenges coming. So like, is there a moment, um, in the history of the organization that you feel, um, really helped solidify the direction that you all and why you are functioning and being sustainable in the way that you are right now?
00:30:59
Speaker
So pre-health dreamer started off and it's always been a student-led organization. and But I don't want that to sound like we're not organized or or anything less. It's been student-led because that's who formed it and that's who makes it up. um But being a student sometimes implies being your own counselor, especially in our community.
00:31:23
Speaker
um I've had a lot of times where are my high school counselors, you know, back in the day ah told me, you won't be able to go to college because you just can't pay it. You know, they didn't do it out of vengeance or anger or being mean, but they just didn't know any better. They didn't know how to work with me. um And most of the times I just didn't tell my counselors that I wasn't documented because what what you know being so oftenly told, no, you can't do this, what am I gonna gain from it? It was my thought process. So I think PhD is a consortium of people that had that happen over and over again. And so it started out as a listserv between pre-medical students. And then it grew and it kept growing because there was such a huge problem that nobody was talking about.
00:32:20
Speaker
nobody was helping these students, right? Or if there were, there were a few warriors, but the battlefield was so, so large that it almost felt helpless. As it kept growing, and more folks got involved, and NAP got was was able to hear about us, but it's been a long journey. And I think it's always an event. Like I can i can say this with certainty, me and Rocio, every time we have a staff meeting every week,
00:32:49
Speaker
There's always something that pops up. turns zo It's never a dull day in our lives. There's always some case, some emergency case that is, you know, from what other folks might consider a really grave situation that we have to put out fires consistently. So I think the notion of PhD, right? Where we came from, what we're doing.
00:33:12
Speaker
I think that really sums up that it is student-led, but it's student-led in in in such a high ah-yielded way. um And so I don't know if that answered the question, but I really wanted to stress that point about where where we come from.
00:33:34
Speaker
Well, there's a lot of power in the solution coming from within the community that it's seeking to serve. right like You understand the nuances of this population like way more in depth than the rest of us have because you you've lived it.
00:33:51
Speaker
And you know when we think about social change, like the most sustainable solutions come from within the communities themselves. And I think a lot about what I can do like as a a white dude, right?
00:34:06
Speaker
How can I step in? How can we within our positions of privilege and power to be supporting the work that you all are doing? That is so important. But because I don't think that the role is to like co-opt the work. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, ah completely. And i that's a really great question. And I think right now, being in this space right now, learning from the community, learning
00:34:37
Speaker
through undocumented stories and experiences and challenges and also not forgetting about undocumented joy. There's a lot of joy to to feel in our community from our achievements, even though this happened. Like, I graduated.
00:34:53
Speaker
ah Even though this happened, i I'm able to make an income, even though X, Y, and Z. um And also, as someone who is in positions of power and the advisors and counselors who could be hearing this, something I always stress to my advisors is if a student is disclosing this information to you, um don't engage in trauma porn. Don't engage in asking them questions that could be loaded like, Oh, are your parents here? Did they get deported? Like, were you deported? Did you cross the border? Did you go across like, there's there's undocumented individuals from all over the country, like over the world, I'm sorry. um And not just from certain countries.
00:35:37
Speaker
um But yes, as someone who may be in positions of power, ah listening to your students, listening to and ah undocumented voices, and also coming at it with the sense that your student has probably been told no 110 times throughout their life. And if your student isn't, which being the first one to reach out, um be in a sense graceful with the fact that um with your with your undocumented students, because sometimes that is the most challenging thing for someone who's undocumented to do. um One, because there's a lot of stigma behind being undocumented. I'm sure that I could name a couple. And two, we don't want to endanger our loved ones. We don't want to endanger our family members. If I say I'm undocumented,
00:36:29
Speaker
then that's kind of like opening a can of worms to the people that are around me. i I want their safety more than anything even though I can and I am comfortable talking about my status. I know a lot of individuals aren't ready yet and they have a lot of trauma to process before they're in the ah space to disclose their status, even to a professor, even to their advisor.
Advisor Support and Confidentiality
00:36:56
Speaker
um I know the first time I disclosed my status to my high school advisor, they very much pushed um going to a trade tech school because they've never advised in a documented student before. So ah there is nothing wrong with trade tech, but
00:37:13
Speaker
if I told them I wanted to go to college and they were sending me to a trade school, that was very disheartening to hear. And for a very long time, I carried that with me, thinking like, I probably can't go to college. Why am I even trying? Like, why am I doing this? um Yes.
00:37:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think we have a lot of conversations as health professions advisors as who the gatekeepers are to these careers and opportunities. And I think those of us ah certainly in this call, we know that that is not our role. That's not our job. Our job is to help support each student to be the best possible candidate that they can.
00:37:57
Speaker
however that looks for them and to help them understand what it will take for them to be that competitive person. So I'm happy to hear that hopefully the tech that I take is supporting the students in the way that you would have hoped to be. And I know that we all are going to make mistakes. I know I certainly have. I've sent many a follow-up email. um But yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for that.
00:38:26
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like we could spend a whole episode on just unpacking trauma porn because that's a real concept and I just we're not gonna do it today, but I feel like that a whole situation like we should just you know, think about sometimes the interest like not mistaking like our our desire to help really needs to be separated from our interest in people's stories. Like if you were really interested about like there are movies, go watch it. Like don't use your students as an opportunity to do digging in a way that makes them relive things they're not wanting to, you know, live through. And so definitely creating safe spaces for people to talk openly, but also not um prying um where, where they, you can sense that there's, you know, they, they are,
00:39:18
Speaker
expressing their right to their their privacy and what they're willing to hear. So I appreciate that. That drop. um Yeah, I think it has. Oh, go ahead. And there you you explain that perfectly, such as ah trying to distinguish a humanistic urge kind of to like, see a if if someone sees like a car crash happening, it's hard to look away because it's, it's like, we we just want to see it. We want to like, Oh, did they end up being okay? What's, what's going on? But to kind of go against that and like not prying to your student's background and not, um again, re-traumatize a student, that would be one, I think that's an extremely important thing to be doing just off the bat, even undocumented, not your citizen students, whatever background a student's coming from, just don't re-traumatize them.
00:40:07
Speaker
um and Yeah, beautifully said. Thank you for that. I would love to have be part of that conversation too. And I have a lot to say. First and foremost, I want to say thank you for the work you do. As as someone who was a former undocumented student, um when I was growing up, I was just told, you know just get married. Just get married. um And then that's the way to go to college. um So um PH Dreamers um is I love it. I have a soft passion for it. And I just want to know as we head into the future, um what are your hopes um for the organization concerning some of the major changes that are coming up um as it relates to
Enhancing DEI Efforts
00:40:52
Speaker
DEI? um And especially like i I spoke with a student today about the break who um wanted to potentially travel. um And I you know told the student that maybe be traveling
00:41:06
Speaker
you know, before January 20th might be a better option. um So what, what are you communicating to students and what are those hopes for the future?
00:41:19
Speaker
Yeah, so this is a a treacherous path. The lower coming up, I'm not gonna lie. and As a student, I can give my my point of view and as a student,
00:41:33
Speaker
It's going to be hard. It's going to be hard. We have an administration that is not very fond of our community. And and if there was a struggle, it's going to be an apple pie, right? But as a as an advisor, I'm turning Paige over. I think it's my role to make sure that my students are not panicking. I think it's my role to give them some guidance. And this is the time more than ever for educators to educate to train themselves right the more information we can pull in the more we know even if it's not within our nine to five the more we can give these students
00:42:12
Speaker
right so I really encourage folks to take trainings, to take workshops, to read on scholarly articles, to meet with students, to be in these support groups, to really take on the face and the facet of knowing what it's like ah to to advise an undocumented student. I think now more than ever, we need community. and Our community doesn't stop with folks that are undocumented. are Actually, our CEO,
00:42:42
Speaker
is not undocumented, but she is the biggest ally you could ever have for our community. um So our community is not just if you don't have work authorization, it's everybody. My counselor back at UMD has become one of my best friends. And hopefully she's hearing this. Wendy, I love you. But I... We love Wendy.
00:43:08
Speaker
I love the fact that people from outside that haven't experienced this challenge can relate. I think that's where the empathy empathy, that's where you see a person actually shine. We have folks that are like, I don't know anything about your community, but I'm willing to be there. I'm willing to go to these meetings with you. I'm willing to take those workshops with you. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know even where to start, but it's that eagerness. It's that willing to learn.
00:43:37
Speaker
that differentiates a counselor from a great counselor. And I think we need those leaders in this community more than ever moving forward. Because as a student going back a page, that's what I would love to see. Yes.
00:43:52
Speaker
And a lot of, just really quick, a lot of DEI efforts, a mission and vision of ah certain institutions, they don't include immigration status. So a lot of times it's difficult for individuals who are trying to navigate these spaces for bureaucracy purposes and trying to add additional resources for undocumented students. Because a lot of the mission or vision statements from DEI offices and Institutions include sex, race, national origin, and the protected classes of individuals. um But legal status or lack of is not included in those statements. So even with financing or getting funding for certain trainings, it's harder for
00:44:38
Speaker
um an individual to be proactive and you know work around those perimeters set by institution. So we encourage institutions to relook at those statements and relook ah ah the needs of your students.
00:44:53
Speaker
And as well, um learning from us pre-house dreamers, we do ally trainings for our counselors, advisors, staff. ah We are a huge resource. You can use us. We would love to be part of those conversations if you um if you would like if we can be part of them. We would love to be able to either advise or support whatever role you'd like us to take.
00:45:18
Speaker
That's really helpful. um I want
Resources for Advisors
00:45:20
Speaker
to prelude with a thank you um before I kind of circle back to the thing you just hinted to, which is the resources and how to engage with PhD. One thing um that I am very happy for is that we're part of an association that has um been able to provide you a ah platform to be able to communicate with pre-health advisors directly. And we hope to continue doing that. This is just another way we're doing that. And so hopefully as our our our association listens, they are even more encouraged to reach out
00:45:53
Speaker
directly. I know I poke around websites and I knew that um you had the the membership or the standard like you could get the presentation or consultation or have presentations done for your your program. um The constant conversation right now is about the changing landscape as a whole of DEI with this being just a piece of it. And I think um I like the call to action about looking at your DEI statements and what that looks like. I think that's great direction to be like what what should I do with this information? That's a great way um to start. And so I guess like um if there's any other particular resources, whether on your website or um any other pieces that you would direct listeners to, to say, hey, this is where you can get more information and get started. If you want to participate in being an advocate or um ways to get involved um ah at at the institutional level or maybe even the state level, if you have
00:46:52
Speaker
particular directions that you can send people. I'd like to just do a quick shout out again to students, student educators that were really excited about the Launchpad program and and it's solely because we want to lead students to actually make money with the degree they use and it's not just some sort of degree seeking path but it's actually to to push for them to actually be financially independent, which is what we need in this community more than ever. So um I urge folks to to reach out to Lunchpad. There's also a great organization out there called Undocu Professionals. We know the the director really well, and and they do a lot of great work with non-undocu folks, um specifically in in
00:47:44
Speaker
you know, working as well as in leading these efforts, you know, post-graduation. I think there's a lot of talks about post-graduation because now our folks started out as high schoolers, but now they're finishing their education. And we would love to just, you know, close the book. That's it. And and the conversation, but unfortunately they need to do something with this degree. Sometimes they're even in debt because they've had to self-finance.
00:48:08
Speaker
the program right there are very limited financial scholarships out there for them so we really need them more than ever now to like unlock the next phase of that journey and what does that journey look like so i would do want to give a shout out to end up professionals they are a great great organization as well
00:48:30
Speaker
Rocio Blabia, thank you so much for your time today.
Conclusion and Call for Inclusivity
00:48:35
Speaker
Thank you so much for the work that you both do. Please extend our thanks to everyone at Pre-Health Dreamers. You all are so incredible. Please tell the students that we are in the stands, cheering them on as well.
00:48:49
Speaker
We love joy of all kinds when it comes to, you know, the future of healthcare. And I think, you know, I think you're helping to make our healthcare system a lot brighter in the future. So I really appreciate the work that you've done. You know, I was at Penn State for a number of years and I have had a few students utilize your amazing organization. So I'm just very, very grateful that this exists for these wonderful, incredible students.
00:49:18
Speaker
So thank you. So we want to thank everyone across the membership for tuning in into another episode of The Lunch Hour. And please keep striving for a more inclusive and just health permission professions community. Until next time.