Transcript
Speaker: We're focused on what we're teaching and we want kids to learn, but nobody ever really teaches them how to do that.
Speaker: So once you know how to learn, then you can learn really well.
Speaker: But just coming into it cold is a disadvantage.
Speaker: Hello everyone and welcome to the How to Have Kids Love Learning podcast where we explore ideas and strategies to help students thrive.
Speaker: I'm Beau Brusco, former ELA teacher and multimedia journalist and unfortunately my co-host, the executive director of the Journalistic Learning Initiative, Ed Madison,
Speaker: Couldn't be here today.
Speaker: He's feeling a little under the weather, but I am absolutely thrilled to speak with today's guest, Cynthia Tobias.
Speaker: Cynthia is an educator, motivational speaker, and best-selling author who specializes in helping people of all ages find their natural learning style.
Speaker: Cynthia has written 13 books on topics such as
Speaker: taking charge of your own success, how to help children love learning, and bringing out the best in your child.
Speaker: Her background includes 25 years of private practice, eight years of teaching high school, and six years of law enforcement.
Speaker: Cynthia is also a mother of twin boys and currently resides in Washington State with her husband, Jack.
Speaker: Welcome to the podcast, Cynthia Tobias.
Speaker: Well, my first question for you, because a lot of your work revolves around learning styles and helping students and children discover the different ways in which they learn.
Speaker: So what are some indicators in the classroom for whether or not students different learning styles are being considered or valued?
Speaker: Well, I think there are three major areas that I talk about in my books about when it comes to evaluating kind of what do I need to learn?
Speaker: And that is, what do I need to concentrate?
Speaker: How do I need to remember?
Speaker: And what do I need in order to process the information?
Speaker: In a classroom setting, of course,
Speaker: what you needed to concentrate is pretty limited ability to do it.
Speaker: In other words, not everybody's going to concentrate well early in the morning or in the afternoon.
Speaker: Everybody's so different.
Speaker: And it's not a lot of choice when you're actually doing the instruction or receiving the instruction, but really understanding when you're at home, when you're,
Speaker: doing homework when you're studying, when you're doing the writing, knowing where you concentrate best is a really valuable thing.
Speaker: The same thing with remembering if you're especially if you're you're studying for a test and exam, you're studying to remember something, studying to master something, then
Speaker: knowing how you remember what you need, like whether you need to talk it out loud, do you need to be with a partner or a study buddy?
Speaker: Do you need to, are you really visual?
Speaker: Do you really just need to see it and picture it and make a drawing or a sketch?
Speaker: Or are you kinesthetic, which is the most challenging of all?
Speaker: Because if you're in a classroom setting, kinesthetic means you're moving or else you're not, your body is only thinking about moving.
Speaker: And the more kinesthetic you are,
Speaker: the more restless you tend to be.
Speaker: And you really, while you're trying to keep your body still, the more still you keep your body, the more your mind goes, I got to move, I got to move, I got to move.
Speaker: So learning ways to figure out, okay, how will I adapt if I'm in a place where I can't do these things?
Speaker: I want to concentrate in the morning, but I'm in an afternoon class.
Speaker: I want to move, my body wants to move, but I'm in a very straight chair and I have to sit here and I'm not allowed to move.
Speaker: You know, what can I do to adapt?
Speaker: And the other thing is when we're thinking about the learning process,
Speaker: Many people, you know, the research shows the world's about 50-50 of how you need to get it in order to process it.
Speaker: Like I'm married to a man who was always as a student and is now very what we would call analytic, step by step, get the pieces, get them in order.
Speaker: organize it.
Speaker: And so he wants everything organized.
Speaker: I'm what we would call more global, big picture.
Speaker: I need it in context.
Speaker: So the only thing I'm thinking about when I'm learning new information, the first thing I'm thinking about is, okay, so what is it?
Speaker: I mean, so in other words, what?
Speaker: That's my big motto.
Speaker: In other words, what?
Speaker: What are you talking about?
Speaker: And so if you're starting with, here's how you do it, one, two, three, I'm still listening to
Speaker: thinking, okay, so it's about what?
Speaker: And after number three, I'm going, oh, okay, that's what it's about.
Speaker: But then you've moved on and I've missed the three things it's supposed to be.
Speaker: So, you know, the value in understanding ourselves with that kind of thing is immeasurable.
Speaker: If just awareness is half the battle, right?
Speaker: If I know these things about myself and if I understand what I'm going to need to cope
Speaker: then I can pretty much cope with anything.
Speaker: Yeah, and it's interesting that you mentioned kinesthetic and sort of these, and like analytical, for example, like your husband, and these different styles of learning.
Speaker: That, for me, harkens back to Howard Garner's theory of multiple intelligences.
Speaker: I'm imagining that you're familiar with that theory, correct?
Speaker: Yeah, and the interesting thing, the difference between
Speaker: Gardner's theories of intelligence and learning styles is what I liked about the multiple intelligences, especially with Thomas Armstrong kind of put practical ways to them.
Speaker: You can actually sort of teach yourself to get higher in the different intelligences.
Speaker: Like if you want more mathematical, if you want more spatial, you can do exercises and actually make it grow.
Speaker: With the learning styles, it has more to do with
Speaker: how you were the inborn strengths and how you were born and shaped and you'll get to where you can practice and be better at it.
Speaker: But in the end, you know, you're still going to be who you are, right?
Speaker: Like Popeye, I am what I am.
Speaker: And I can be more than I am if I understand what I need.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: And what are some more examples of learning styles then that you could share with us?
Speaker: You already mentioned kinesthetic, which is like body, very physical.
Speaker: What are some other ones that come to mind?
Speaker: Well, and let's go back to concentration for a minute.
Speaker: You know, if I had known about myself when I was younger, what I know now, if my parents could have afforded it,
Speaker: If they would have gone to a restaurant outlet store and bought an old restaurant booth and installed it in my bedroom, I could have worked forever because here I'd be this comfortable booth and I'd have a table and I've read a drink.
Speaker: And, you know, a lot of my books I wrote in either an airport lounge or Starbucks where there's noise and there's.
Speaker: people around, but nobody's talking directly to me.
Speaker: My sister was just the opposite.
Speaker: You know, she needed the quiet, but again, designing that sort of atmosphere where, look, if I really need to do it, and this is hard for me, where should I be?
Speaker: Knowing that is really valuable and, and understanding like I'm very visual and very kinesthetic and not all that auditory.
Speaker: So I
Speaker: being auditory means that you learn by hearing, but not necessarily somebody else talk, right?
Speaker: If you're auditory, you usually learn best by hearing yourself talk.
Speaker: So your voice actually, you don't understand and remember till you've heard your voice say it.
Speaker: So you ask questions, you interrupt, you tend to talk.
Speaker: So that means if you're gonna go and you're gonna work on something and you're all by yourself, um,
Speaker: Who do you talk to?
Speaker: So if you're not going to talk to them, I got to go somewhere else.
Speaker: And then I get distracted and I get off base.
Speaker: So being able to figure out, okay, I think I need maybe not a study buddy, but somebody that's here at the same time.
Speaker: So that if we can practice together on things that I really need to remember,
Speaker: Um, and the kinesthetic of course is easy because you can find ways I'm in a chair right now where if I, if I want to, I can turn, I can, I, I, and it goes up and down and I can, I can move my feet and legs and nobody's going to be bothered.
Speaker: As long as I remember that, that I am being watched.
Speaker: So I can't, I can't get too crazy away from the camera.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So being able to develop these things in yourself.
Speaker: helps you do hard things, helps you in situations where, wow, this just, this isn't like me at all.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So you can give up or you can say, okay, I know what I'm going to need to do.
Speaker: I'm going to need to do this and this and this, and that's going to really make a difference.
Speaker: Yeah, I really appreciate what you shared because to me it sounds like the different intelligences can inform your learning style, but the learning style is figuring out more of what the environment
Speaker: what environmental factors need to be there to help you concentrate and to help you learn according to your natural inclinations.
Speaker: The thing you said about the coffee shop really resonated with me because I'm definitely the same way.
Speaker: I, if it's too quiet and too sterile,
Speaker: I kind of go a little crazy.
Speaker: I need a little bit of chatter in the background.
Speaker: I need distractions that I can look at just for a minute and come back to.
Speaker: That definitely helps me concentrate a lot.
Speaker: But yeah, I think helping students, like you said, or just anyone in general understand what their learning style is helps them adapt to the environment, or I guess helps them adapt to whatever it is that they're learning instead of
Speaker: trying to, cause you know, a lot of teachers, there's a lot of pressure on teachers these days to teach, you know, with differentiated learning approaches and stuff like that.
Speaker: And with 40 kids in your class, you know, that's a little difficult sometimes.
Speaker: And the bottom line is, and I'm sure you learned this when you were a teacher too, I'm much better if I can teach my students how they learn at least briefly so that I'm not ever going to be able to meet all their individual learning styles and no one will.
Speaker: So if they understand their wiring and they understand how they learn, then they're going to become more confident learners and they're not going to have to rely on somebody to translate it for them.
Speaker: Understand your pre-wiring.
Speaker: And then as you get older in college and beyond, you make better choices because, you know, I went to a time management class in my graduate degree just once and thought, oh,
Speaker: I can't do it.
Speaker: I can't do it.
Speaker: I've got to drop out.
Speaker: This is just not me because it's all this analytic piece by piece, step by step, write it out.
Speaker: What's your five year plan?
Speaker: I'm going, oh, my goodness.
Speaker: So understanding your own shortcomings and understanding your strengths
Speaker: means I can get through it.
Speaker: Like I got through calculus amazingly, but I never even liked math.
Speaker: How did I do it?
Speaker: Well, you know, it's not just pulling yourself up by your bootstraps.
Speaker: It's saying, okay, here's what we got to do, right?
Speaker: I'm going to join a study group.
Speaker: We didn't really study.
Speaker: We were just sort of a misery loves company group.
Speaker: And we were kind of reassuring each other.
Speaker: We're not as dumb as this class makes us feel.
Speaker: And somehow that was good.
Speaker: But then I knew I had to hire a tutor.
Speaker: And I knew the kind of tutor I had to have had to be a little bit like me, so that she would understand where to start.
Speaker: You know, it's that sort of thing that that makes you able to just conquer what you need to conquer and not sit back and go, I can't do it.
Speaker: I just can't do it.
Speaker: Sure, you can.
Speaker: You can choose to do it.
Speaker: And if you do choose to do it, you understand what you need.
Speaker: It's all about
Speaker: Because when we're kids, when we're in school, the schools, like you say, they don't have a lot of time.
Speaker: We were teachers.
Speaker: We know that that's true.
Speaker: But we're focused on what we're teaching and we want kids to learn, but nobody ever really teaches them how to do that.
Speaker: So once you know how to learn, then you can learn really well.
Speaker: But just coming into it cold is a disadvantage.
Speaker: Yeah, like it's viewing learning itself as a skill and trying to find the way that you learn best.
Speaker: This makes me think about helping or advice you might have for parents to first discover or begin to identify the different learning styles of their children and maybe help their children identify it for themselves.
Speaker: What kind of advice would you have for parents?
Speaker: Well, on my website, we have a learning style survey, but even better, I have a new book coming out just after the first of the year, and it's called Reclaiming Education, Teach Your Child to Be a Confident Learner.
Speaker: And we're adding in that book a link for a free downloadable student workbook.
Speaker: And it's adaptable from preschool all the way through adult and beyond.
Speaker: And it kind of just goes through some real pertinent questions and helping you figure out, you know, through
Speaker: through descriptions.
Speaker: Here's, here's what I really need and summarize what it is because, and in the way, the way we work the book, it does the same thing kind of at the end of the chapters, it says, so how visual do you think you are?
Speaker: How auditory, and you can kind of summarize some things about yourself because half the, half the battle literally is awareness.
Speaker: And with parents,
Speaker: We wanted to do it the way we learned it because we're living proof that our way works.
Speaker: But we don't realize sometimes that it doesn't work.
Speaker: So there's one really important, two really important questions to ask yourself as a parent.
Speaker: What's the point?
Speaker: What's the point?
Speaker: For instance, OK, the point is I need I have twins.
Speaker: I had twins.
Speaker: They're two minutes apart in fourth grade.
Speaker: They did their homework.
Speaker: How did they do their homework?
Speaker: Well, Mike did his homework at the kitchen table by himself, totally quiet.
Speaker: Robert did his homework on his stomach on the coffee table, waving his legs in the air.
Speaker: The bottom line is both boys did their homework and that was the rule.
Speaker: Okay, what's the point?
Speaker: You get your homework done.
Speaker: If you can find another way to do it,
Speaker: That's okay, but you have to prove that it works.
Speaker: So that's part of the formula for success.
Speaker: And we talk about that in the new book too.
Speaker: Know your strengths, understand what you need in order to succeed, and then you have to be ready to prove it works.
Speaker: So, well, if I could prove to you that I could get all my homework done, if I could be on the floor with a can of Diet Coke, with headphones in my ears, and, you know,
Speaker: And you're going, no, no, no.
Speaker: Yeah, but what if I could prove that I get it done and I get it done well?
Speaker: Okay, I'll give you three days to do that.
Speaker: And if at the end of three days you haven't done it, then we're not going to do it.
Speaker: So at the end of three days, if the homework's done and done well, as a parent, we say, well, it would never work for me.
Speaker: But obviously it does for you.
Speaker: As long as you can keep proving that it works, I'm going to let you do it.
Speaker: Yeah, and what a wonderful way to offer your children choice and empower them with agency while also making sure that the bottom line is met, that there is that level of responsibility and accountability.
Speaker: This kind of makes me think about, because obviously we live in a digital world now, and so I'm sure technology has the ability, I think, to detract from our learning styles as well as enhance them.
Speaker: What kind of, I guess, and what dangers does technology pose to helping us discover our learning styles and what aid might it provide?
Speaker: I think, you know, there are a lot of benefits obviously, but I think some of the drawbacks are we get a little lazy.
Speaker: You know, for example, I still write most of my manuscripts and books.
Speaker: I still write it longhand first.
Speaker: I don't just dictate it into the
Speaker: to the computer or I do at night if I wake up in the middle of the night and I think of something, then I'll dictate in an email to myself.
Speaker: But then I need the exercise of actually writing it.
Speaker: I need to sit in a place and not just be audio.
Speaker: And I think
Speaker: That's probably the biggest.
Speaker: And then some of these programs like Grammarly, I had one, one man tell me, oh, I wrote a book, but I didn't actually write it because you know, with Grammarly, you don't really have to write.
Speaker: You just tell it what you want to say and it says it for you.
Speaker: And I'm thinking, that's a horrible idea.
Speaker: Well, it takes away the heart and soul.
Speaker: Yeah, I was about to say, if we all use Grammarly to that extent, we'd all sound the same, right?
Speaker: We lose our personal touch.
Speaker: And in my opinion, you diminish your unique imaginative qualities as an individual, right?
Speaker: And if you're
Speaker: doing research of any kind for a book or writing or even doing homework, talking face to face to people, there's no substitute for that.
Speaker: Even this that we're doing, it's pretty good because we can interact.
Speaker: But you know, sit down among people and get their ideas about things.
Speaker: And not just texting and not just doing, you know, TikTok, Instagram and getting your ideas that way.
Speaker: Sit down with somebody or do an activity with somebody and observe people in their in what they're doing and observe them in real life.
Speaker: They'll never be a substitute for that.
Speaker: Yeah, and this makes me think too, because discovering your unique learning styles means that you have to give your inner self attention, right?
Speaker: You have to sort of be in tune with yourself in sort of an intimate way, if you want to call that spiritual or just metaphysical or abstract, whatever.
Speaker: But I do sometimes worry that kids who are so caught up in a
Speaker: they have to be stimulated with technology at all times, it kind of dulls their sensitivity to themselves to the point that they might struggle to pay close enough attention to discover the unique styles with which they learn.
Speaker: Does that sound fair?
Speaker: Yeah, and look at books.
Speaker: I mean, books.
Speaker: Pick up a book, hold on to a book.
Speaker: I watch parents hand a tablet to their two-year-old and then keep talking to their friends or keep doing other things.
Speaker: And there's no substitute for you holding your child in your lap and reading from a book and having them touch the pages of a book.
Speaker: Don't have...
Speaker: electronic substitutes.
Speaker: And don't be looking at your phone when you're talking to other people or grabbing your phone every few seconds.
Speaker: Pick up a book or talk to people.
Speaker: I get after my husband even in the checkout line because he's busy, you know, looking down at his phone or reading a book.
Speaker: He'll read a book in line.
Speaker: I'll say,
Speaker: Wherever you are, be all there.
Speaker: That's what the poster used to say in my classroom.
Speaker: Come on, wherever you are, be all there.
Speaker: Look at people.
Speaker: Look at your environment.
Speaker: And especially if you're a writer or if you're a commentator, if you're anybody like that, you want to be able to really observe people.
Speaker: So don't look it up on the phone and don't look down at your phone.
Speaker: Be there.
Speaker: Be all there.
Speaker: Look around.
Speaker: Watch what people are doing.
Speaker: And for me, I found a real valuable asset in unspoken compliments.
Speaker: You know how when you walk by somebody and you think, wow, that's a really cute blouse.
Speaker: Say it.
Speaker: You just need to say it.
Speaker: I know that it's a stranger, but it's amazing how many times if I'll walk out of a place and there'll be an older person there and she's got this gorgeous purple jacket, I'll say, oh, the purple looks just great on you.
Speaker: And their face brightens up and they go, well, thank you.
Speaker: There's no substitute for that.
Speaker: It's not picking up your phone and telling people electronically, look in their eyes and be all there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's a, it definitely h as a noticeably different impact than just giving someone a like on a photo.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, this, this is interesting.
Speaker: Your sort of emphasis on just being present where you, wherever you are and acknowledging and even interacting with strangers.
Speaker: I wish Ed were here because Ed is actually, he's written a forthcoming book, it's going to come out here soon, but a lot of it's about advocating for your child while they're in school.
Speaker: One of the things he emphasizes in the book when he's talking to college students, because he's an associate professor,
Speaker: As he tells his college students, he encourages them to talk to strangers because there's so much you can learn from a random connection, but also so many skills you develop in talking to people you've never spoken to before.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And when you approach them with a compliment or something positive and genuine, I mean, I'm constantly surprised at how surprised people are that they even got noticed.
Speaker: And I think that does something for them too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, uh, going back to learning styles and, uh, talking about, um, you know, young students, uh, still in, in secondary or elementary school, when, uh, let's say a parent is listening and their child and them have sort of a pretty good idea for their learning style.
Speaker: Uh, but they have a teacher who might not, uh, maybe their teaching style is just a little incompatible with that learning style.
Speaker: What are some ways parents can help their child sort of advocate for themselves in the classroom so that they can bring some of their, or be permitted to learn in the unique way that they do in the classroom?
Speaker: Again, I think awareness is half the battle, like we talked about.
Speaker: And this is a good learning, you know, a good life challenge to learn, to learn.
Speaker: cope with something you can't change and you can be frustrated with it and sit there and be frustrated with it.
Speaker: Or you can challenge yourself by saying, ah, okay, what can I do?
Speaker: Um, what can I do to, to, to just make myself get through this because you are not going to be able to count on the teacher changing.
Speaker: Now, sometimes you can, you can ask
Speaker: afterwards, or you can say, would it be okay if I did it this way?
Speaker: And you might get a positive answer or you might not.
Speaker: But again, we go back to the mantra awareness is half the battle.
Speaker: So sometimes just knowing why it's hard for you makes it less hard for you because you realize, okay, I'm going to have to do this, but it's not going to last and it's not going to be forever.
Speaker: And I know why it's bugging me.
Speaker: So I'm not stupid and I'm not really misbehaving.
Speaker: I'm just kind of dying inside, but I can do this.
Speaker: And I'm continually surprised and others are too.
Speaker: And when I was teaching my high school students, even with the learning styles, they were just so caught off guard that first of all, a teacher would even ask, you know, how do you learn?
Speaker: Well, that didn't even occur to them.
Speaker: And secondly, that we might actually have ways to help you cope.
Speaker: And we would try to bend, but I've got, I mean, I had 180 students a semester, right?
Speaker: In high school, I can't personalize it, but what I can do is give them the information and give them the illustrations and give them the time.
Speaker: And if, even if they don't get it from the teachers, as a parent, you can give them that information and time to practice
Speaker: with homework, with other projects.
Speaker: And again, so what's the point?
Speaker: What do we need to accomplish?
Speaker: How many ways are there to do it?
Speaker: And maybe we can find another way as long as we can prove that we're going to do it.
Speaker: Again, the onus is on you.
Speaker: It really is.
Speaker: And that's okay because that helps create strong and capable people.
Speaker: And otherwise, if you don't know why it's bugging you, then it,
Speaker: It produces bitterness and resentment and feeling, you know, inadequate in yourself.
Speaker: So I really think building a child's confidence as early as possible is really important by focusing on strengths and then looking at the weakness out there and figuring out what's the strength I could use to overcome it.
Speaker: This sounds like it aligns really well with Carol Dweck's work on fixed and growth mindset in the sense that one of the most important skills you can learn is just to value your own sort of agency in a way where you can see challenges as opportunity for growth and to increase your strength instead of feeling sort of helpless in the face of them.
Speaker: Kind of, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, no, this is very timely work, I would say.
Speaker: Especially, you know, it's interesting with our increased awareness of mental health issues.
Speaker: Sometimes I feel like we can get a little caught up in the...
Speaker: the trying times we find ourselves in with the children trying to develop, you know, especially through like the COVID pandemic and spending so much time on screens.
Speaker: My niece is going into fourth grade and this was the first time in years that a pencil was not on their classroom like school supply list because everything's going to be done on computers now, you know, fourth grade.
Speaker: It just kind of blows your mind.
Speaker: It just kind of blows your mind.
Speaker: So yeah, I really appreciate the work you've done, Cynthia, with this learning style approach and really empowering students to challenge themselves, to grow and adapt and really find... It sounds overall like it's really finding your inner spark and your inner flame, you know?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And the Dell Corporation did a report of the future
Speaker: back in 2017 and they said at that point in 2017 which was how many years ago you know five years ago or so and it said um by 2030 the kids in k-12 right then they said 85 of them will be working in jobs that haven't been invented yet they said so we what we can tell you is it's never been more important
Speaker: to know how to keep learning, not necessarily to just learn the static things and feel like that's going to do it.
Speaker: And I think that, you know, that is, that's very valuable advice.
Speaker: And I, we watch it happen now.
Speaker: I'm, you know, you and I, we've seen it over the last few years, even new jobs all the time.
Speaker: By the time our children are grown and in a job,
Speaker: What if it had never even been conceived of as we were raising them?
Speaker: So give them the tools, give them the confidence to be learners so that they can keep on learning and adapting.
Speaker: And when their job goes away or morphs into something else, they can say, okay, I can do this instead of saying, well, I guess I'm not worth anything and I've got to go away.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Yeah, that's very powerful.
Speaker: And that's crazy to think, but I wouldn't be surprised if that turns out to be the case.
Speaker: But thank you so much, Cynthia Tobias, for joining me today on the How to Have Kids Love Learning podcast.
Speaker: I really appreciate your time and sharing your bits of wisdom.
Speaker: It's been a real pleasure.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: How to Have Kids Love Learning is produced by the Journalistic Learning Initiative.
Speaker: For more information about our work, please visit journalisticlearning.com.
