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Journalistic Learning with Ed Madison
38 Plays1 year ago
On today’s episode: Journalistic Learning Initiative (JLI) Co-Founder and Executive Director Ed Madison shares with his new co-host Bo Brusco what inspires him and the impact the JLI is having on students. In addition to being a JLI co-founder, Ed is a seasoned media professional with more than 30 years of distinguished work in journalism and an Associate Professor of Journalism at the University of Oregon.
Topics:
00:45 Meet your new co-host, Bo Brusco
02:40 How Ed began his career in journalism and production
06:35 Ed’s journey into education and founding the Journalist Learning Initiative
11:30 What Journalistic Learning is and its impact
14:10 Language Arts in Action blurb
14:40 What issue Ed would have investigated when he was in high school
16:05 The Journalistic Learning approach and intrinsic motivation
20:45 Ed’s focus on contribution
For more information about the Journalistic Learning Initiative and Ed’s work, visit journalisticlearning.org. You can check out Ed’s new book, Language Arts in Action, by visiting wwnorton.com.
Recommended
Transcript
Children's Natural Curiosities in Education
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Kids are curious about these topics, but most of traditional schooling never turns to them and asks them what those curiosities are.
00:00:08
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So what we find is that when you do that and you honor those kids' interests, you're no longer force-feeding them.
00:00:15
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They are actually driving and generating the topics that they're investigating.
Podcast Introduction: How to Have Kids Love Learning
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Hello everyone!
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Welcome to the How to Have Kids Love Learning podcast, where we explore ideas and strategies for parents and educators to help students thrive.
00:00:41
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All right, and if you're listening and you're familiar or have listened to this podcast before, you'll notice that's a
Meet the Hosts: Beau Brusco and Ed Madison
00:00:47
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new voice.
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Give a warm welcome to Beau Brusco, who's joined us at JLI and will be co-hosting this podcast with me.
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I'm Ed Madison.
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I'm the executive director of the Journalistic Learning Initiative.
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and co-host of this podcast.
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And today we thought it'd be fun to just sort of, in a sense, almost interview each other and sort of talk about this work that we do and what you can expect in this new season from our forthcoming episodes.
00:01:15
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Well, we're just really feeling fortunate to have you as part of the team.
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And, you know, over the course of the
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forthcoming episode, you'll be meeting all kinds of interesting educators and occasionally journalists or two.
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And you can kind of count on us to keep you up to speed with innovations that are happening in project-based learning and not only in the work that we do through the Journalistic Learning Initiative, but also other projects and like-minded work.
00:01:47
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I'm really excited to dive into it with all of our... I mean, we have some great podcast guests lined up for sure, but I'm excited to get into it with you too, Ed, because anyone who knows you knows that you really do a million things.
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A million...
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It's true.
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You do a million wonderful things.
Ed Madison's Career Journey
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But I kind of want to talk about your origin story first, actually, because I mean, at age 22, you were already recruited to be a founding producer of CNN, which is incredible at such a young age.
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And, you know, you went through
00:02:25
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I mean, a ton of different avenues and various projects from there.
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But I kind of want to start with this question, which is what initially inspired you to embark on this journey?
00:02:39
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Well, I laughingly say that maybe I was conceived during a Steve Allen monologue.
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And so for people who don't know who Steve Allen was, he was one of the earlier hosts of The Tonight Show.
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because my trajectory professionally has intersected both journalism, a lot of areas of television production, specifically talk shows, and education.
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My mom was a fourth and fifth grade teacher, an elementary school teacher, and my dad was a professional journalist.
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He was actually a trailblazing journalist.
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He was the first African American to be hired into management at the Chicago Tribune.
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in 1961.
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So he covered the civil rights movement and Dr. King.
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And so I really kind of grew up with journalism around the dinner table.
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We moved to Washington, DC when I was seven and the civil rights movement was unfolding.
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You know, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated.
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Martin Luther King was assassinated.
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And, uh,
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You know, it was quite an amazing time, both in terms of tragedies, but also social movements, women's movement, gay rights movement, you know, just kind of came to the forefront during that period.
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And so I would listen to radio talk shows out of Boston.
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There was a host called Larry Glick, a guy named Larry Glick.
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I just found this a Facebook group around celebrating him.
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But they had a very strong signal out of WBZ in Boston.
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And I would listen to this talk show in the wee hours of the morning.
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And then another show called Empathy that was, I don't want to say the guy's name was Fred Fisk, but it was all about just,
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things that were happening in the world, current events.
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And so when I was 16, I stumbled into a counselor's high school counselor's office and there was a flyer way before social media and post.
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There was a flyer on the bulletin board about a
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internship opportunity and it required that you write an essay and then be interviewed and they were going to choose three students from all over Washington DC to be a part of this internship program.
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And so interestingly enough, and I am trying to shorten the story here, but what's fascinating about this is that I got to the finals and one of the panelists asked me, well, doesn't your dad work at channel seven, which was
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kind of a different TV station.
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At that point, he had transitioned from print into broadcast management.
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And I said, yes, I said, yes, he does.
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And so they sent me home because they said that, you know, this is for kids who don't have that leg up.
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Like, you know, you're, and so I was, I was devastated.
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I went home, but then they called the next day and they said, you know what?
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One of the three kids that we selected
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decided that they can't do the program or don't want to do the program.
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And we talked as a committee and your essay was excellent.
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And you're truly, obviously passionate about this.
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Would you like the slot?
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And I was like, I'll be there tomorrow at 6am.
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I mean, that was really, you know, so that was the beginning of all of it.
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And it's going to make me sound very ancient, but it was as the Watergate scandal was unfolding.
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So I was, I was interning at Channel nine in Washington, DC, which was owned by the Washington Post.
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as the Watergate scandal was unfolding.
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And that really cemented my destiny.
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I think it really showed me that, you know, it was a front row seat to history, but also the fact that you could get paid to put new ideas on television, you know, was really exciting to me.
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So that's kind of how it all started.
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It's interesting to me too, because you said your mom was an educator and now you're
00:06:34
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taking what you learned from your years in journalism to the classroom.
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So when did, obviously you're on this trajectory, let's go back, you were 22, founding producer of CNN, and you went on to do so many more things.
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What eventually drew you to kind of come back to the classroom and bring what we now call journalistic learning to today's education?
From Media to Academia: Madison's Transition
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Yeah, well, let me so first of all, the CNN part of it sounds lofty.
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And it was certainly very exciting.
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But it wasn't it wasn't, you know, James Earl Jones, you know, this is CNN, it was, it was it was literally almost bring your pens to work type of a situation.
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We started very lean.
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I had interned for a woman in Boston at a local TV station while I was in college at Emerson who remembered me and called me and said, do you think you're ready to produce a show?
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And I said, sure, I think I am.
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And she said, I think so too.
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And so we started with like, I was responsible for an hour of nightly entertainment news on CNN talk show.
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And it was a, you know, one other talent booker and interns, you know, that were responsible for making that show work.
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And so I spent another 20 years in L.A.
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working on everything from working as a producer for Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous with Robin Leach.
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where you had to learn to say things like, you know, romping in Rio with Raquel Welch, you know, and was a West Coast producer of the CBS Morning program.
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I had my own company that did, you know, behind the scenes and motion pictures, Star Trek movies, Eddie Murphy movies and things like that.
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And what happened was right around 9-11,
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I started to notice that the types of projects that I had been working on were becoming more tabloid.
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And it just really didn't fit my sense of integrity.
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It was the kind of work that I wanted to be doing.
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I didn't want to work on Inside Edition or Hard Copy or any of those kinds of shows that were on at that time.
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And so I was producing a show for A&E Network.
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a pop culture countdown series.
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And every week we do a different list.
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And one of our episodes was on college towns.
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And Eugene, Oregon was unscientifically number seven on our list.
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And I came to do that story and fell in love with my own story and started to think about moving out of LA and to Eugene, which is where I live now.
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And I'm now an associate professor at the
00:09:07
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University of Oregon School of Journalism and Communication.
00:09:10
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And so to answer your question, it was while I was looking for a dissertation topic, I mean, I ended up, I didn't have a master's or a PhD.
00:09:19
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I met some people at the University of Oregon and they basically said, you know, with your experience, you could fast track this.
00:09:25
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You could actually enter our master's program.
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If you do well enough, you can, you know, petition to have those, you know, be considered PhD credits.
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Um,
00:09:35
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And so I did, and I finished my PhD in three years at U of O. And then, you know, it was all clear to them that I wanted to stay.
00:09:42
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And so that was a whole nother process of a national search and all of that.
00:09:46
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And I'm very fortunate to say that I got received tenure two years ago.
00:09:52
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So, you know, my, I'm just really indebted to the community of professors and
00:09:58
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who were my professors and who are now my colleagues at University of Oregon that I get to do this work.
00:10:04
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But it was while I was looking for a dissertation topic that I stumbled upon Esther Wojcicki, who's one of our JLI co-founders.
Founding of the Journalistic Learning Initiative
00:10:14
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And for those who might be listening for the first time, you know, the Journalistic Learning Initiative is a nonprofit.
00:10:18
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We're based in Oregon, but we're growing rapidly.
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We're now, we've just exceeded
00:10:24
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over like hit the 100 mark in terms of teachers that are implementing our work.
00:10:29
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We have other projects.
00:10:31
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We have something called Black Student Magazine.
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It's a very cool digital publication you can find online at blackstudentmagazine.com.
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And we have a partnership with the National Urban League.
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that now has that magazine, Reach Kids in 93 U.S. Cities.
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We're just growing in leaps and bounds.
00:10:49
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But anyway, I met Esther at a conference, was amazed by just how poised and professional her students were.
00:10:57
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And that led to our collaborating and starting this nonprofit, which became JLI.
00:11:05
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Also a woman named Tara Gruber who gave us initial funding to pilot our work.
00:11:13
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And so, yeah, that's kind of how we end up where we are today.
00:11:18
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Well, I think something we should explore is what is journalistic learning?
00:11:25
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And why do you think it has had such an impact that we've seen so far with the teachers who've implemented it?
Implementing Journalistic Learning in Education
00:11:34
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Yeah.
00:11:35
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So, you know, I think that when people hear journalistic learning and they realize that we're doing work with middle and high school students, their initial thought is the school newspaper that has existed in high schools and middle schools for as long as we can remember.
00:11:50
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And that's great.
00:11:51
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That's not what we're doing.
00:11:52
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It's certainly informed by what we're doing, but it's not what we're doing.
00:11:56
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It turns out that if a kid is struggling in English language arts, most often they are required to take remedial English, which is an approach that has already shown that it doesn't work for them, right?
00:12:09
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And so when we talk about journalistic learning, we're talking about putting a journalistic lens that's project-based
00:12:16
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on English language arts.
00:12:18
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So instead of just the 30 kids that are part of the newspaper or yearbook in a school,
00:12:26
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Our work impacts all the kids so that it's required in English language arts.
00:12:33
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So what we do is we layer a 10-week project over existing English courses that utilizes this journalistic approach.
00:12:44
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And what is a journalistic approach?
00:12:45
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Well, first of all, it's turning to the kids and honoring the fact that they have interests, they have things that they care about,
00:12:54
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They have social issues that they care about.
00:12:57
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It could be homelessness.
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It could be post-traumatic stress related to veterans.
00:13:04
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It could be animal cruelty.
00:13:05
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The kids are curious about these topics, but most of traditional schooling never turns to them and asks them what those curiosities are.
00:13:14
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So what we find is that when you do that and you honor those kids' interests, you're no longer force-feeding them.
00:13:21
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They are actually driving and generating the topics that they're investigating.
00:13:27
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Now, that's not to suggest that there aren't things that they need to learn that they don't care about, but this is a way to sort of meet them where they are and get them excited about learning and reinvigorating that curiosity.
00:13:40
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Yeah, for me, the...
00:13:43
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how the whole approach is geared towards instilling intrinsic motivation in them to learn more about these issues.
00:13:53
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And, you know, the sort of academic outcomes are just a natural byproduct of their own investigations.
00:14:00
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It's just incredible work.
00:14:01
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And for those listening, here's a shameful plug.
00:14:04
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Ed's book, who he co-wrote with Melissa and Rachel on the...
00:14:12
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JLI team, Language Arts in Action is actually available for purchase now.
00:14:16
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So if you want to read a whole book about the journalistic learning approach and what it looks like in the classroom, it's called Language Arts in Action.
00:14:25
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But I have a question for you, Ed, which is if you were a high school student back in the day when you were in high school,
00:14:33
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And the teacher asked you what issue you would cover at the time.
00:14:38
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Do you know what issue or topic you might have been interested in investigating?
00:14:43
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Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because I have memories of my sixth grade teacher, Ms.
00:14:49
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Watson.
00:14:50
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And we were in Washington, D.C.
00:14:53
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and the Vietnam War was going on.
00:14:56
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And she literally had us dress up in army fatigues and go down to Capitol Hill
00:15:04
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And I wouldn't say like lobby Congress, but we were walking through the halls and everything.
00:15:10
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And it's something I'll never forget.
00:15:11
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I mean, you probably wouldn't even be permitted to do something like that now, you know, because, you know, be considered, you know, partisan or whatever else.
00:15:20
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But, you know, it was at a point in history where people pretty much realized this war is not smart and we need to figure out how to get out of it.
00:15:26
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And the fact that I have that memory even says to me that it was this realization that even at, I don't know, I don't even know if I was, no, I wasn't even driving.
00:15:37
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So sixth grade, I would have been like 12 or something like that, to realize that, yeah, Congress is like the seat of power, but you can have some influence on it.
00:15:48
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It makes an impression.
00:15:50
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Yeah, that would have definitely been a big topic to cover in sixth grade.
00:15:57
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Yeah.
00:15:58
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Yeah.
00:15:58
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No, but I think that speaks to the power of this approach is how memorable it was for you, even in sixth grade.
00:16:06
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Yeah.
00:16:07
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And you mentioned something about...
00:16:10
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it was self-determination or motivation, intrinsic motivation.
00:16:14
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So there's a theorist, DC and Ryan, they're out of the University of Rochester and we cite their work a lot.
00:16:22
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And they talk about, you know, and so when people say intrinsic motivation, what do they mean?
00:16:27
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Well, they're the things that you love doing.
00:16:29
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It's not something that you do in order to get a good grade or please your parents or get into a good college or whatever else.
00:16:36
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It's just, you love,
00:16:38
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doing it and we find that this sort of journalistic approach is kids, it resonates with kids, that this is something that's exciting to them because they are generating the topics, they are coming up with the people they want to interview, you know, they're guiding the steering.
The Impact of Authentic Audiences on Student Work
00:16:55
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Sorry if I may, you also reinforce that through the journalistic learning approach because they're also going to be publishing and sharing their work with an authentic audience.
00:17:06
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Exactly.
00:17:06
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Exactly.
00:17:07
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So when kids realize, I mean, in my day, it would have been like the science fair, you know, the whole idea that, you know, the community is going to see it.
00:17:15
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Your family is going to see it.
00:17:16
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Your friends are going to see it.
00:17:17
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It has it's not just something that one teacher is going to look at and give a grade.
00:17:22
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It has kids, in a sense, bring their A game to to their work.
00:17:28
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And it's transformative, but we continue to see that.
00:17:32
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And we've got kids, we've got teachers out there who are taking our work and adapting it and having kids create podcasts.
00:17:40
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Some are experimenting with video.
00:17:42
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There are all kinds of ways to do this work.
00:17:46
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So we're really just excited about it.
00:17:48
Speaker
I can speak to that too, because I've been thumbing my way through the effective communicators course, which is this 10 week lesson instructional plan that you mentioned.
00:17:58
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And one thing I've noticed is that it's, you know, very rich as far as like, you know, resources in media resources to help teachers implement it in the classroom, but it's not constrictive and it really does
00:18:14
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still leave a lot of room for teachers to adapt it, uh, to, to their own students.
00:18:19
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Cause I mean, you know, students just from class to class in the same high school are going to have different personalities.
00:18:27
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So, so it's, it's nice to have that flexibility still.
00:18:31
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Absolutely.
00:18:32
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Absolutely.
00:18:33
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Well, Ed, uh,
00:18:35
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One of the last questions I want to get to here is a kind of a more personal question I have for you, which is for anyone who's been listening for the last 20 minutes or so, you know, they've heard so much of what you've done and what you're doing.
00:18:49
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And it's very clear that you as a leader here, a co-founder at JLI,
00:18:54
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you're definitely a visionary in the sense that you constantly have these ideas coming.
00:18:59
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It's like this fountain of inspiration that's just continuously spouting out new ideas and new projects.
00:19:07
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Does that sound fair to say?
00:19:10
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I, you know, I guess I think I'm a product of journalistic learning before we gave it that name.
00:19:15
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I mean, I think my dad and my mom, you know, basically I should credit them as being, you know, sort of the founders of our approach because, you know, to be 16 and Watergate unfolding.
00:19:28
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And I mean, I stood outside the White House when Nixon gave the last salute and got on a
00:19:33
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you know, the chopper and flew off for the last time.
00:19:36
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That sense of the fact that media is so powerful and can really influence and make a difference in people's lives is I think what drives drives that passion that I have for this kind of work.
00:19:50
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Wow.
00:19:51
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Yeah.
00:19:52
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Well, yeah.
00:19:54
Speaker
Do you ever sort of
00:19:57
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notice any challenges though that come along with constantly finding new ideas, new... Is there ever any sort of frustration?
00:20:11
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Yeah.
00:20:13
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So I laugh because this is a continual, I wouldn't say frustration, but something I think about and not to sound morbid at all, but I think you
00:20:23
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you too, Beau, will reach a point in life where you realize that you have more years behind you than you have in front of you.
00:20:30
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And so you have to sort of make some choices about what is it that you're going to focus on, you know, what's going to be your sort of sense of purpose or your North Star.
00:20:39
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And, you know, I realized that, you know, in terms of accomplishments, like, I don't need another
00:20:48
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house or another car, another award or any of that kind of stuff, I've reached this point where truly, you know, my focus is on contribution and looking at how I can take the gifts that I've been given in terms of skills, but also, you know, I've had a great childhood and went to a great college and great career, which continues.
00:21:19
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And so how can I give back?
00:21:21
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How can I contribute
Purpose-Driven Teams and Global Ambitions
00:21:23
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from that space?
00:21:23
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And so I find that when I'm focused on contributing, the rest of my life is working just great.
00:21:29
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If I start worrying too much about me, things can start to go south.
00:21:35
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So it's this sort of philosophy that I live by, if that's answering your question.
00:21:40
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And then in terms of having so many projects, I think it's all about surrounding yourself with a great team.
00:21:48
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purpose-driven or mission-driven.
00:21:50
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And therefore, I think we attract wonderful people like yourself who want to be a part of that and want to help it grow.
00:21:58
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And so to the degree that I, you know, delegate and continue to add at the right time, the right mix of folks, there's nothing that we can't accomplish.
00:22:07
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We have global ambitions with JLI.
00:22:09
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You know, we've had all our materials translated into Spanish.
00:22:14
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And so, you know, probably in certain
00:22:18
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Well, we already know that we're launching a magazine for Latino students in the spring called Inspirar, which is Spanish for inspire.
00:22:28
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So that'll be our first foray.
00:22:30
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But I wouldn't be surprised within two years you can pull this interview out and I will have rightfully predicted that we'll be expanded into Latin America with our work.
00:22:40
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Incredible.
00:22:41
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I would love to
Effectiveness of Journalistic Learning in Underserved Communities
00:22:43
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see that.
00:22:43
Speaker
Well, and I think that's part of it, too, though, is when I was reading up on Journalistic Learning Initiative when I was preparing for the interview, I read about how, you know, as you relate to us, you listen to some of the Esther students and just how sort of
00:23:03
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eloquent and professional they sounded.
00:23:06
Speaker
And then you thought, I wonder what effect this can have on children who are studying or going to school in underserved communities.
00:23:14
Speaker
Yeah, do you want to say that?
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you know, Palo Alto is one of the wealthiest communities in the US, if not the world.
00:23:24
Speaker
You know, Facebook is around one corner, Google's around another corner, and Stanford is across the street from Palo Alto High School.
00:23:31
Speaker
So you would expect that these students would be pretty sharp.
00:23:35
Speaker
But I did both qualitative and quantitative research.
00:23:39
Speaker
I, you know, spent lots of time there with a video camera, you know, observing teacher-student interactions,
00:23:46
Speaker
and also surveying other schools and other programs, comparisons and everything else.
00:23:52
Speaker
And what I walked away from all of it, realizing was that it wasn't so much about affluence or wealth.
00:24:01
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It was really about an approach to teaching that connects with young people, that honors their autonomy and gives them an opportunity to really
00:24:15
Speaker
grow and express themselves creatively that makes all the difference.
00:24:18
Speaker
And you can do that on a budget that's much less than what they might have to work with there.
00:24:28
Speaker
It's exciting.
00:24:58
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maybe what they need for success.
00:25:00
Speaker
And it helps them discover their agency and their voice.
00:25:05
Speaker
And I really think being able to do that just in a classroom anywhere in the world is so powerful.
Global Expansion Goals of JLI
00:25:15
Speaker
So if your goal has been to try to contribute as much as you can, I definitely feel like you're on the right track and I feel like Journalistic Learning Initiative is on the right track.
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah, we've piloted some workshops in Ghana, West Africa, in villages where they have very little in terms of resources and we have had the same success.
00:25:40
Speaker
And so that's another of our goals is to expand our work into African countries and other
00:25:48
Speaker
other parts of the world.
00:25:50
Speaker
So we have a lot to do.
00:25:52
Speaker
Well, maybe that's where we should end it is watch out world.
00:25:55
Speaker
Watch out world because jail life's coming.
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:26:00
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:26:01
Speaker
This has been wonderful.
00:26:02
Speaker
Well, thanks for letting me interview you on your own podcast.
00:26:05
Speaker
And I look forward to co-hosting with you.
00:26:13
Speaker
Kids Love Learning is produced by the Journalistic Learning Initiative.
00:26:16
Speaker
For more information about our work, please visit journalisticlearning.com.