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Winning India's B2B Kirana Market | Tanutejas Saraswat (ShopKirana)
165 Plays4 years ago
"Raising investment should not be celebrated. It's like you are proving that you are unable to generate a profit from your company so that you need to sell your own equity." This contrarian take from Tanutejas Saraswat offers a refreshing perspective on startup funding, emphasizing sustainable business building over the glamour of fundraising. He believes the focus should always be on creating a fundamentally strong business.
Tanutejas Saraswat is the Co-founder and CEO of ShopKirana, a B2B e-commerce platform transforming India's vast unorganized retail sector. An entrepreneur since 2002, Tanutejas has scaled ShopKirana to operate in 15 cities, connecting with 50,000 Kirana stores and achieving a gross revenue of ₹639.16 crore in FY24. The company has raised over $50 million in funding and its private label, Kisan Kirana, became a ₹100 crore profitable brand.
Key Insights from the Conversation:
- The Scalability Lesson: Early ventures like Napster Era and PaintLyfe taught Tanutejas the critical importance of building "scalable ideas," a core principle he applied to ShopKirana.
- Solving Real-World Problems: The B2B concept for ShopKirana was born from co-founder Deepak Dhanotiya's direct observations of his father's Kirana store struggles and his own experiences with FMCG supply chains at P&G.
- The Tier-II Advantage: ShopKirana was strategically headquartered in Indore, allowing deep immersion into Tier-II city dynamics, which became a significant competitive advantage.
- Building Trust in B2B: Tanutejas emphasizes that in the B2B Kirana space, trust and strong relationships with retailers are paramount, often outweighing just price or technology.
- Complementary Co-founder Strengths: The founding team's success is supported by a clear division of responsibilities: Tanutejas on execution and people, Deepak on operations and sustainability, and Sumit on fundraising and finance.
Chapters:
- [0:00:00] - From Selling Wallpapers to Unscalable Ventures: Early Entrepreneurial Lessons
- [0:05:48] - The First "ShopKirana": An Early B2C E-Grocery Experiment
- [0:17:55] - The Pivot: Discovering the Massive B2B Kirana Opportunity
- [0:27:35] - Founding ShopKirana B2B with a Shared Vision
- [0:30:52] - Winning Over Kiranas: Building Trust & a Simple Tech Solution
- [0:45:55] - The Funding Journey: From Angels to InfoEdge's Quick "Yes"
- [0:59:04] - The "Replicate Model": ShopKirana's Playbook for Rapid Tier-II Expansion
- [1:11:04] - ShopKirana Direct & Building an Ecosystem Beyond Supply
- [1:23:00] - Building "Kisan Kirana": From Private Label to a ₹100cr Brand
- [1:32:04] - Explosive Growth: Scaling People, Cities, and Revenue
- [1:37:27] - Co-Founder Dynamics: How Three Different Personalities Drive ShopKirana
Hashtags: #ShopKirana #TanutejasSaraswat #B2BeCommerce #IndianStartups #FounderThesis #KiranaTech #SupplyChainIndia #Tier2India #Entrepreneurship #StartupIndia #MakeInIndia #RetailTech #FMCGIndia #Logistics #StartupFunding #VentureCapital #Bootstrapping #ScalingBusiness #Indore
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Transcript
Introduction to Founder Thesis Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
H.T. Smartcast You are listening to an H.T. Smartcast original.
Tanu Thesis's Entrepreneurial Journey
00:00:24
Speaker
Hi, I'm Akshay. Hi, this is Aurob. And you are listening to the Founder Thesis Podcast. We meet some of the most celebrated charter founders in the country. And we want to learn how to build a unicorn. Hi, I'm Tanu Thesis, founder of ShopKirana. Nothing comes easy in life. And it's those hard learned lessons that teach us the true value of struggle and commitment.
00:00:53
Speaker
Our guest today mastered the art of selling when he was just in school. From selling wallpapers door to door to building a platform for artists and art enthusiasts, Tanithajes has tried it all. But one idea that turned the tables for him was creating a platform for everyday retailers where he solved their problems with the help of technology and supply chain management.
Innovative Solutions and Investor Interest
00:01:14
Speaker
And that was it. The Indian market was introduced to Shop Kirana, a made-in-India game-changer innovation that has been backed by some of the biggest names in the VC world. Tune in for in this episode, Akshay Dutt unwraps the tale of Tanuteja Saraswat and the rollercoaster story of his innovation, Shop Kirana.
00:01:49
Speaker
But I have always learned that when you realize something, that something you did wrong and mistake. And if you continue that the next day, then I find it a blunder. So in Shopkirana, I see in a couple of journey that how we actually cultured the Shopkirana in this way, in this thought.
00:02:11
Speaker
At that point of time, I was doing that paintings and all. It was a fun journey. Again, the sponsoring was just Napster era. It was sponsoring. I still have the connection with all those clients because I felt that it's always a lifelong journey because the kind of work I did in the first one or two years
00:02:34
Speaker
in Napster era, I didn't hustle in the same way for the same people for the rest of my life. So I just worked for the two years, I created a long lasting relationship, and then it became the cash cow. So it was like sponsoring other projects and all. So again, I realized that, okay, this is not scalable. And then again, like when you're an entrepreneur, you meet a same kind of mindset and all. So in Napster era, when I converted the Napster era into a digital thing, I was doing all
00:03:02
Speaker
digital solutions also. I started creating websites also. I started creating a marketplace also. I started like selling software also. Because I realized, maybe if I'm non-Texay people, but I can actually get 100 people.
Sales Techniques and Relationship Building
00:03:23
Speaker
So I always used to go to the clients and I always used to pitch whatever thing can be sold.
00:03:30
Speaker
So it's narrow about that if I don't sell the ERP. I never saw the ERP in my life, but I sold an ERP. And I said, yes, everything can be done. Why? Because obviously, I had a little bit of knowledge of the technology. So I used to talk in that terminology, which I think the world says client servicing. So I polished my client servicing.
00:03:54
Speaker
And I used to get the job. And then I used to give those work to the freelancer or maybe like other companies in the city. And I was always the kind of escrow account between the clients and all. And that point of time on Sunday, beautiful. It was like rainy day and the Sunday I got a call from a guy and he wanted to like, again, wanted to work on a marketing office company.
00:04:20
Speaker
in a digital way from creating a website to SEO and like social media and everything and he wanted to meet me. I said yes, I called this guy in my office, we met and we closed the deal within one hour and we started working and I had no idea about this guy. He just like met, we just like he came, we met, he gave me order. He got convinced because I explained him that creating a website don't run the business, running a business run the business.
00:04:48
Speaker
So it's not about like, if you think so, like I can help you in that. So that was kind of a pitching, which really impressed me. So, uh, and he went back, we started working and I think like, uh, in two, three months, we completed the project. I never completed the project. I mean, if there was a vendor who completed the project, I was always in between and like many vendors, uh, like, uh, in his particular project, I know, uh, like a couple of like vendors fucked up the project also. And I got like scolded a very big time because I was responsible.
00:05:17
Speaker
but I never liked all my relationship like in my life with anyone like in today, but like if Any loss like happened on any party side and this guy I had no idea where this guy works who is like he just came over there in a company named caramel organics I saw him as a client and in two three months like Within two three months. We met like four five times and
00:05:42
Speaker
And after that, like when I hand over the project, so whenever he used to come in law, we used to make, we used to have a cup of coffee and we used to share different entrepreneurship idea. I used to like share what we are doing. And he used to like talk about ideas and ideas. And one day he came and he said, okay, so like I said, at that paint light, along the paint light, I was doing a similar kind of thing for grocery.
00:06:10
Speaker
And the company was the same like Shopkirana. So again, it was not a like a registered company, it was just a domain. So the idea was when this thing came type, like I started knowing that it's, I'm not going to I'm unable to scale this model, and it's not working for me.
Identifying Market Gaps and Challenges
00:06:30
Speaker
So I found that okay, was the next thing, which is not like easy. And it's very big pain point and for the masses.
00:06:39
Speaker
I always wanted to go for the masses. And at that one time, there was no e-grocery portraits in a lot. I mean, I started with the very first e-grocery portrait with the name of Shop Kirana. I'm talking about nine years back, approximately. Again, it was just a couple of people trying to figure out something.
00:07:00
Speaker
The model was very simple. I used to buy from Walmart and I used to sell everything on my website. So there was a website, e-commerce website. People buy from that website. I go to Walmart. I buy from Walmart. I add maybe like 5 to 10% of the margin on those products. And then I take a logistic, maybe a bike or scooters or moped or blah, blah, blah.
00:07:23
Speaker
and then used to deliver the products to this homes. I was doing that. So this was like a Grover big basket kind of a model basically. It was more, it was neither the Grover nor the big basket. I mean, because I never had the warehouse.
00:07:42
Speaker
So what I did, I went towards this metro and best place and I convinced one of the managers of metro and best place that you can sell to the whole city like why you are asking people to come here because not everyone can come here.
00:07:58
Speaker
And so why not you share your pricing list to me. And I have this website, which I can promise you that exclusively will sell all the product, which is Walmart is selling. So in reality, you are getting the order. I'm just like adding like my service. So I got like the house of Flipkart like this best price.
00:08:18
Speaker
I got like pricing of the like with so I had I never invested in the working capital because in like and you charge the commission to best price for these orders.
00:08:30
Speaker
I added up added up my commission actually on that on part of that. Okay, you are like this phase like officially was never involved. It was just one manager who was helping me with the price list of the price. I think today it is like easily available. But at that point of time, this was not taking order on the website also.
00:08:52
Speaker
So they were very conscious that pricing should not get exposed. So it was a very big win for me. And then after a couple of months, this guy said no, because of the heavy competition from the metro. So it looked like someone is leaking the prices of a best price to the outside world. This guy stopped helping me.
00:09:15
Speaker
I shared about the journey of this guy also and it's very interesting how really things connect in the future like when you really don't know who the person was.
00:09:26
Speaker
This guy said no and I came back and then I went towards Metro, I convinced Metro. Then I said no. I went to the big wholesaler of a city. I made him a supplier. So it was just one supplier. So it was not a marketplace, just one supplier. The prices were there. I was buying from them and I was delivering to the people home. And the biggest problem which I started feeling
00:09:51
Speaker
Like at that point, I mean that time we were like listening is to be like here today that there's a lot of competition from Modern Retailers, there's a lot of competition from e-commerce, there's a lot of competition from internet companies and I was listening to the same thing at that point of time also because obviously it's right to say because I also jumped into like creating something in e-commerce and it can be the right thing.
00:10:14
Speaker
But the data was saying something else while working in a shop. I was like, they're working. So data used to say that, uh, which was very shocking for me because I said,
00:10:42
Speaker
And when I was running Shopkerana, I started this project and I majorly started to understand the psychology of the customers because I believe that there is not a single company in the whole world who ever cracked the B2B model of a grocery. Even today, there is no single company.
00:11:04
Speaker
And that one of time, it was kind of a very big thing. So I said, why? I am really curious about the consumer psychology. Why? Even after adding this thing, people are not really buying things online. And then moving forward while continuing that project,
00:11:23
Speaker
I changed a lot of back-end operation and business model just to figure out the next behavior, the next behavior, how to increase the sales, how to increase sales. So I started from maybe like five or 10 people in the office colony, and then I scaled to maybe like 5,000 plus customers in a city.
00:11:56
Speaker
Right. So when we hear about the marketing, I believe to do a sale, you don't need to do marketing.
00:12:08
Speaker
I tried scaling it to a couple of cities with the help of franchisee.
00:12:14
Speaker
I mean, see, marketing is something else. To do a jump in sales, you need to do a marketing. But to do to run a business, you don't need any kind of marketing. Second, like it's always a people game. So I don't believe that everything is under technology.
00:12:38
Speaker
But again, it will contradict the point that why even today, even after having all the technology in the world, 92% market share into the hands of offline market. The only reason is it's a very behavior thing, which we are seeing. So, what we did, we pasted like posters on roads, we pasted a stall lake, there was a lot of people there.
00:13:06
Speaker
We were backfired from the whole city.
00:13:09
Speaker
And then we figured out, can we pitch those people, but the kids actually stay outside and these kids must be working. So we somehow got like 10 to 15 such kind of families. And then we started taking a refill kind of a thing.
00:13:36
Speaker
Then we had like four or five promoters and interns we hired who used to go on the road. And every home, they used to actually do everything on their mobile devices. You see how easy it is, how convenient it is. So it doesn't make hardcore sales. And by using maybe newspaper templates, that's how we scale from zero to 5,000 kind of customer base.
00:14:04
Speaker
Again, the revenue was less than 50 lakhs. It's in the whole year. And it's, I mean, it's obviously like at that point of time, it was a very big thing for us in terms of like grocery in terms of nothing in MP.
00:14:23
Speaker
We thought we have cracked the model because it was a profitable model. I mean, we didn't invest much, but we earned 10 lakhs plus amount from that model. Because from back end, it's a very good margin. I mean, it was not a funded thing. I mean, that time, I was not too much aware about the VC thing at all.
00:14:51
Speaker
But while understanding the market, that how companies and people, other people help you, I realized, okay, there are some competition, there are business-class competition, if they like it, they can invest like one floor, let me go there and pitch them the idea because it's working and it's making me money. Maybe it's making money for five people's salary, but it is making money. So it's not like that kind of thing.
00:15:12
Speaker
Because in a startup world, whatever we are here today, I think we are going to have business business. So I have never heard this thing from my father's mouth in my whole life. So even in the paint life also, in the shop, everything was profitable. Because everything was bootstrapped.
00:15:42
Speaker
when I was doing this and I thought I did something creative. It's very interesting like actually because like what's really happening in reality in this context call I'm actually recalling the journey. So I never thought like I'm
00:16:04
Speaker
like in this way. So what I did, I knocked the door of the level of investors who said no. So I created a... Yeah, these were like indoor based investors. Yes, indoor based investors. So everyone said no. Then I went to Bombay. There was like some, I think Nascar, Mumbai, Angels, something which even
00:16:29
Speaker
I represented paint life there. Again, I got rejected. There was this guy of Mumbai Hills. At that point of time he used to work. I am still connected with this person. One of the most beautiful person I have met. Why is it beautiful? Because I met him around maybe 10 years back. I am connected from that day itself and he has seen all the journey of me. That's why I never disconnect with people because I am always sure that in future you are going to see some kind of journey.
00:16:58
Speaker
I got rejected. So what I did in I created a proposal we call initial public offering, right? So what I did, I did initial family offering. So I created IFO, I created an O-Pays document. And I explained the vision that what I wanted to do, I explained like how much revenue I had, how much money I had. To be honest, the number I had explained was that I had a lot of money.
00:17:28
Speaker
But I actually, I was very, I think in my chart and understanding and I wrote that number and it was a very proper documentation kind of thing. In reality, there's nothing documentation about the investors. I mean, I'm talking like instead of like asking my dad or family for money, I am like restructuring in such a way that
00:17:56
Speaker
people loved it. I got money from 10 to 12 family members within like 24 to 48 hours. Some distance related also sent me amount of money. And I use that money to continue that project. And then while doing that, when I said that my books on Mac, like people are going towards Shikirana store, they are not going to us online or more than like 90% still there. So like, why, why is this thing happening? So I realized that my competition is not other online
00:18:23
Speaker
organization or the modern utilities. My competitions are Kirana stores. And when I saw the data, I realized there are 7,000 to 8,000 Kirana stores in a city and there are 9 million Kirana stores in this country. I don't think I can fight with these Kirana stores and I can create a very healthy competition for these Kirana stores because there is an unproportionate number for both the places. And I used to crack a joke that I'm always key.
00:19:09
Speaker
And then I somehow converted the model into a Grapher model.
00:19:23
Speaker
and he offered me, I said, I am not going to be a logistic person, I am not going to be a logistic person, I am going to continue my work, I am not going to be a logistic person, I am not going to be a logistic person, I am going to be a logistic person, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am going to continue my work, I am
00:19:49
Speaker
So I shifted that thing. And it's a very journey. I started working with my client. And I started working and I used to sit with this guy in a month or two to discuss new ideas and all. And I started working with a lot of people.
00:20:15
Speaker
And I really loved the discussion whenever I had with this guy, because I it was a very knowledgeable discussion. So normal when you like understand each other's DNA, and it's a kind of like same so up, you can actually understand like from the context point of view, or the vision point of view, and you can talk very big things also to the person. So I was very comfortable in talking the projects and idea I was doing what like what I'm trying to do and all. So one day this guy came.
00:20:42
Speaker
After knowing this guy for one year, I didn't know what to expect from him. I didn't know what to expect from him. I didn't know what to expect from him. I didn't know what to expect from him. I met a lot of people who offered me money, who offered me like floor, or house, or like offices, which I never accepted. No one actually offered me the knowledge, like no one. And when I was in the shop, I had a competition with them.
Connecting Kirana Stores with Brands
00:21:12
Speaker
So this guy came, he opened the notebook, he draw the diagram of an Indian retail and he said, this is a $600 billion market. 92% market is controlled by the mom and pop store. And there are thousands of brands out there. And it is one of the most unorganized market. It is one of the most anti market in the whole world. And the biggest problem of this market is no one is focusing on connecting the Kirana store with the brands. Everyone is focusing on connecting the people like you sitting at home.
00:21:41
Speaker
And it really stuck my mind. And I said, OK. And he said, if someone can create a platform, a single platform which connects both the parties, I think it will be worth an idea to die for, because you will spend, you will need to spend the whole life by doing that, because the numbers are 9 million. And why these numbers are very big? Because even like after 100 years of Unilever, they are connected with 6 million directly and indirectly. They are also not connected with 9 million. So we are talking about that kind of scale.
00:22:10
Speaker
I think within like five minutes, I got convinced. Okay. And I said, Okay, so what am I doing? I'm focusing on the direct end consumer. But this guy is showing me a picture that if you like, you cannot kill mom and pop store. So why not empower mom and pop stores and make the next level of the like big guy, right? And as an entrepreneur, I like within five minutes, I said done, I'm going to get this done.
00:22:36
Speaker
I had no idea who this guy was. I just saw this guy. Which year was this? So this was about 2014. We met in 2013. And from in 2013 to 2014, we talked a lot, read a lot of things. And I think in 2014, in mid of 2014, he came forward and then he said that what if someone can do that and all this thing.
00:23:06
Speaker
And then I got very curious. Next day I gave him a call that, yep, I think you are right. Because everyone is trying to copy and paste the US model. No matter where you are sitting,
00:23:30
Speaker
within 15 minutes of walking outside, there is one thing, right? So I said, Hey, this is so true. I mean, not everything is going to be copy and paste in the country. It has to be like very hybrid model and different model. And now a whole model was tested from B2C to B2B. And he said, like, what about this organization of what you are currently operating? And I said, see,
00:23:49
Speaker
I was not like operating and I'm not like running just for like setting out vision because I was trying to figure out was the unlock was the unlock. I mean, I never like thought about like reaching to millions and millions of customers and do the sale. I was just understanding the pain problem that why people don't buy and I have like 10 reasons that why people buy now because 5,000 people are buying. I know these are the five points. That's why they are fine. So I have solved something in the psychological way.
00:24:13
Speaker
But after understanding his words and like his knowledge, I realized the biggest vision actually is to empower retailers. I mean, if someone can connect nine million retailers.
00:24:23
Speaker
And it is going to be game changers. So next day I give him a call and I said, like, let's do this. Let's do this very formal way. Let's create a company. Let's create a private meter organization. And I was so convinced. So I said that I was running this company. I was running like natural. I was like trying this project and I was trying a few other projects, which was natural. I was sponsoring. And when I met this person and in the next day, when I decided to like start working,
00:24:53
Speaker
and he he is my co-founder and this guy and immediately what I did I actually Stopped in all the operation of all the other things which I was doing. I shut down all the things It made me so comfortable that this is the only thing which is going to work in this country and I'm talking about the 2014 like me, right and
00:25:16
Speaker
I never sold in a distribution model, I never knew. So for two months we went to the market, we realized that these are the pain problems.
00:25:38
Speaker
which is like sourcing. So we started with the vision and we said, okay, this is the vision. So I'll explain to you why I got convinced and why this why I started working with this person when I said no to other person, because he was the only person in I think like in those four, five years,
00:26:02
Speaker
He was the only person who offered me the knowledge instead of the money or the like other language thing He explained the intention and then I came to know the background of this person So the background of this person is so this guy coming from a very small village in MP. It's a same Lirupa It's a very very small village. There's less than 100 families live there
00:26:24
Speaker
His father runs a Kirana store and his father travels 15 kilometers to Shamgad every single day to buy grocery for the gown and he got out from the village, he studied hard, he rode gate, he became gold medalist, number one India ranking.
00:26:43
Speaker
He joined P&G. He started working in a supply chain in P&G. So what, in reality, why this guy came forward with this kind of a thought process is because the person has seen the pain problem of his own father, which is a Kirana guy, and then the person while joining supply chain. So he used to work in a supply chain of tide. The Hindustan met tide ata habura, tide product ata. So he was the supply chain guy for the tide.
00:27:10
Speaker
So you saw the pain problem of world fastest growing FMCG company also. And that's how like he came and he said, can someone connect both the parties that my dad and this company, because my dad like like my dad, the millions of people are traveling every day. So and I think like people connect with the journey, the way people used to connect with me, I connected with someone.
00:27:33
Speaker
I like immediately I purchased this thing and I found, okay, this is really the pain problem. And when I studied harder and when I went to the market, I realized there are thousands more problems. But if someone can pick up the sourcing, it can really change the whole dynamic. So in 2015, officially in December, we registered a company, Shopkirana e-Trading Private Limited. It was the very first private limited company in my life.
00:27:58
Speaker
I mean, I started from proprietorship in Amsterdam. So in 2015, we registered this firm. In 2014, in December, we registered this firm officially. Deepak left his job in PNG.
00:28:15
Speaker
And there's a third part, Sumit Gaurawat. I met Sumit via Deepak. Sumit used to work in PNG. Sumit used to work product launch team. And Deepak and Sumit knew each other before I knew Sumit because they used to work in the same company. So the way Deepak was talking to me, in the same way Deepak was talking to Sumit also. So Deepak was the center of the person who connected all three of us.
00:28:43
Speaker
Sumit coming from business family and he was also in a P&G after P&G he was exploring like certain things and when
00:28:52
Speaker
they used to like, when, when, when they used to talk with each other, they used to discuss about this retail problem and discussion. And we sold this idea. And like Sumit also got sold on the idea. And Sumit also left PNG and we joined together and we started like Shopkerana all together. So how so this is in like Shopkerana, obviously, this is that particular thing, where I, I think, and like, we can do for the whole life. I mean, and, and that's why like, it took me
00:29:22
Speaker
Less than one day to decide that I'm not going to like run or any other things. So what are the savings I have? I'll be running on all the money, but I'm not going to like I'm not going to let any other thing run to
00:29:35
Speaker
create a monthly kind of a thing. Because I believe like once you find out something you need to go all in, I think I always had the confidence that no matter like, if I fail at any kind of a level, I can always like, go back and always do something to get certain kind of like money. So I think it made me like super, super comfortable.
00:29:55
Speaker
Why I am saying all this thing because like when you are really serious about like today Shopkinana is at like very different level. Like I used to fascinate all those like 25 people at the call center and I used to like really passionately used to admire the entrepreneur or founder of that call center.
00:30:13
Speaker
And today, like in Shopkin, there are more than 1,000 people are working. We are doing like more than 500 crore plus sales. So obviously, like coming from that journey and like, like, like coming to the north, and then the college is getting shut down. And like writing cat, we're like, I'm getting less than 20 percent. And then joining hands as a co-founder with those people who actually became the gold medalist. So I think with the life, obviously, like when you become an entrepreneur, you start like doing certain things.
00:30:43
Speaker
without having the perception that how others are performing and doing. And should I really follow the structure of 10 to 5? I think the dots really connect forward.
Building Trust and Overcoming Resistance
00:31:01
Speaker
And we see this. It's very interesting.
00:31:05
Speaker
So, you know, how did you start with getting Kiranas and, you know, what kind of traction are you? Like, you know, first year, how did Kiranas sign up? And how did that growth happen? Right. So, like I said, I had zero idea that Kiranas is a business.
00:31:31
Speaker
We do the same thing which we did on the very first day, we go and meet the customers. I realized like in our business, like meeting the customers, like finding the customer is the biggest thing in a business. But in B2 shop, I have realized a lot of like bigger things are solved because I know who the customers are.
00:31:57
Speaker
So, everything is so simple. Now, the real challenge is, can you convince that person to have a trust on you? So, in B2B, it happens a lot. A retailer actually is dependent on the distributor because he knows the distributor's personal level pay. That's why he is connected.
00:32:39
Speaker
So that's all it's been messy, right?
00:32:42
Speaker
So we realized it's a very persistent game. We are dealing with the most non-taxi-v people of our country who run the whole top without using a calculator. So forget about the mobile devices and everything. And then in the bright side, we are dealing with one of the most oldest business owners of this country also. So if you give them the real value of a business, they are going to like come on the platform. So what we did, the first, I'll explain the first customer journey also. So we went to a couple of retailers. Everyone said no.
00:33:12
Speaker
because we said, everyone said no and people who like Kia are already here, I'm going to pass my retail, I'm going to quickly beat them.
00:33:29
Speaker
So every distributor, every brand comes once in a week only. So retailers keep a stock of a week at least. So that if they run out of stock, so either they have to go to the wholesale market or they just have to wait for the guy to come in. There's no technology, there's no mobile ordering and all. I'm talking about the 2015.
00:33:48
Speaker
So we were the very first company who started selling anything online to mom and pop stores in our country. So we said, okay, some couple of like, people said no, because they had the product. So I found like, okay, what is the quickest way to create? I didn't say I believe on one thing idea to invoice. So Mira is an entrepreneur, like, like 95% of the people if I ask, they have an idea.
00:34:13
Speaker
But when I talk about the execution, like again, like 99% don't have any execution. So I believe your idea about execution is the game. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So I always follow this thing that idea to invoice how much time is taking. So
00:34:42
Speaker
I followed one guy in a wholesale market.
00:34:46
Speaker
When I was a kid, I had a lot of problems. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain.
00:35:15
Speaker
And he said, he said, no, no, no, I said, okay. He said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said,
00:35:47
Speaker
Can you make an invoice? It was the very first invoice I have created. And I sold that story to so many people in my company and which people got sold. And in the next day, everyone went to the market. So we were around 8 to 10 people.
00:36:04
Speaker
including the operation and sales, everything. So people used to work in a really race. So in the morning from 10 to 3 or 4, they used to go to the retail stores. They used to pitch the idea.
00:36:30
Speaker
But I believe technology should make your life simpler, not tougher. So again, mobile applications should be faster than writing on a piece of paper. So we came up with this thought, 3-click, 3-click, 3-click, 3-click, it took us 2-3 months, but finally we deployed in the market.
00:36:58
Speaker
So that's how we started out, like 10 people. We used to go, we used to take the order of the retailers and then we used to give that order to the wholesaler. We used to buy from the wholesaler by giving him a cash. And we used to deliver on maybe on like smaller autos. So customer use delivery.
00:37:30
Speaker
We wanted to test the tier 1 market also.
00:37:37
Speaker
We started from Indot. There's another day story I will share why we picked up TA2 versus TA1. But we tested the market in Bombay. In Bombay, we also use the same thought process. There's a company called, I think they're still working for TAO or something. They recently launched. And they had this bug in their application where they used to charge from A point to B point.
00:38:07
Speaker
So, they had no and sorry, they used to charge from A point to B point to C point to D point and that's how like people used to charge. So, but their bug was if you go from A point to B point and come back again to A point. So, for them it's basically the trip has ended because you have reached to the same destination, right? So, but use the same vehicle to purchase the product from the supplier to come back to the same warehouse which actually ended the trip and then we started the delivery.
00:38:36
Speaker
So in reality, we did maybe like 25 deliveries, but Porter used to give us like one delivery bill, which actually made the driver very angry because see, see normal the company salutes in a technology way. So what he has to take care of yourself, right? Or who's going to have to take care of your tech? And how big are they going to take care of your company? And what your company has to take care of your tech?
00:39:00
Speaker
And we were so happy. People should actually interfere. So it's never over. And we use this philosophy in shop. Because see what happens, a lot of things happen.
00:39:25
Speaker
But, we can't do anything with it. We can't do anything with it. We can't do anything with it. We can't do anything with it. We can't do anything with it. We can't do anything with it. We can't do anything with it. We can't do anything with it. We can't do anything with it. We can't do anything with it.
00:39:48
Speaker
It's a two-way relation.
Logistics Innovation and Market Advantage
00:39:54
Speaker
It's a lifelong journey. That's a genuine way of talking with human beings. So instead of putting up a voice machine, you should talk on a genuine human language.
00:40:09
Speaker
So we started from Indore, and we saw an ETL, an experiment. We saw a lot of brands and products. We wanted to solve the pain problem, and we wanted to solve the pain problem. And simultaneously, we wanted to make sure that business makes sense or not. So we decided to solve the pain problem.
00:40:34
Speaker
Do you have a basic offering that you order and within one day you will get your goods? Right, right. So within 24 hours of place you will get your goods. And you would charge like upfront payment your credit with it? No, I don't have any cash. I don't have any cash. I don't have any cash.
00:40:56
Speaker
But we said, here, we can't do anything. We can't do anything. So we can't do anything. And which became our strength. So all the transactions which we do today, it's all like, there's no credit. So I'm going to realize, I don't have any credit. Because as a company, our vision is to do a billion dollar sales. But how can I give like billion dollar credit? I cannot. There are banks are going to be a billion credit.
00:41:23
Speaker
So, the market is very high. We have individual distributors. We have a specific capacity. We have a lot of customers. We have a lot of logic. We have a lot of business. Thank you. Phil, why did the Kirana stores switch to you?
00:41:42
Speaker
Right. So Kiran has switched to us because of the, again, like I said, there's a pain problem. Pain problem is the same.
00:42:04
Speaker
No problem. For example, if I give you a pain problem, you can see that there is a medi-mix problem. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor. So medi-mix is a distributor
00:42:47
Speaker
When you start tying up with companies, you have to directly wholesalers a career.
00:42:54
Speaker
Obviously, we have a lot of wholesalers here. We have a lot of people who don't know what to do. Because until and unless you have a purchasing power, obviously, you have to have a lot of power. But we have no brands entertainers in the beginning. But we had this conviction.
00:43:18
Speaker
people at that one of my people obviously laughed because we were dealing with the non-textable people and it was a very genuine question like one of the investor asked me okay do you buy a grocery online and I said no so he said how your retailer is going to buy a grocery online
00:43:40
Speaker
and it really struck my brain and I said and I replied to that investor I said I don't buy grocery online because people maybe like other companies didn't work in a right manner to change my behavior so I'm going to change the behavior of my retailers so how many sales how many very hardcore sales appear or how many sales there is a
00:44:01
Speaker
infinite time to meet a customer to convince a customer. So when a team goes there and the retailer
00:44:16
Speaker
So we train this guy to say this thing. So after 3-4 visit,
00:44:33
Speaker
And I think that this is the kind of transition that we are going to see in the future. I think that this is the kind of transition that we are going to see in the future. So I think that this is the kind of transition that we are going to see in the future.
00:44:51
Speaker
We are talking with humans, right? So when I say it's a people game, it's really a people game. So you need to connect with customers. So this is not a retailer. It's a human being sitting there. So when you talk in a human language with a customer, either he's mild or give you order. So once you get an order, so basically now this guy data is now connected in our database. Because
00:45:20
Speaker
Now we know the pain point of that customer. So now in the beginning there was a team, then we sold it, sold it, sold it. Then we solved the pain problem. So now we have to demand it. This is a huge demand actually.
00:45:56
Speaker
So there is no one distributor for the whole country. And there can be many reasons. So we worked, we stayed in India for three years.
00:46:11
Speaker
I believe it is because in the beginning, when you want to solve the unit economics, it requires a lot of money also to solve the unit economics because it requires a certain level to actually reach, talk about the unit economics. So, I think it is important to understand the Indian investment. And Amit is the person who works for the funding investment in shop Kirana. And he has been doing from the day one.
00:46:39
Speaker
So we met amazing people, we met in a journey, we met like Samsung senior vice president, we met Cadbury senior vice president, these people have become the angel investor. And when these people become angel investor, it gives a very high like conviction to you also because there's a very hardcore money of these people. And like if I'm saying that the senior ex vice president of Cadbury invested in Shopkirana,
00:47:02
Speaker
So it proves that he understands the supply chain of FMCG better than anyone else. And if he is investing in the new company, which is solving the same customer problem, then obviously this is worth going forward.
00:47:16
Speaker
Instead of money, like I have this belief and I believe a lot of time like we are like people a lot, but I always say it back that
00:47:35
Speaker
Everyone was there and they are still there. And you won't believe like when people rejected on our faces by saying that we are tier 2. And I laughed and I said, see the companies which I admire.
00:47:57
Speaker
I admire like Unilever where 90% of the people don't even know who the founder of Unilever and that's why I admire Unilever because when you make a company you need to make it like a machine which runs 24-7 without you So I believe I used to love this company and when I love Apple and all this company and I love TATA
00:48:27
Speaker
And the common thing about these companies, and I'm talking about a very well-established company,
Expanding in Tier 2 Cities and Scaling Operations
00:48:32
Speaker
right? These are 550 years old organization. And these companies fascinate me because these people really found a big way, which was a hack. So, like Jamshedpur, right? I mean, when you talk about the Xeroth, when you talk about like these companies, like they have actually brought the whole world here.
00:48:53
Speaker
not with a new generation entrepreneur that after raising like 6, 7, 10 crore they are moving their business from one city to a very big like Bangalore or something by understanding we will become the leader of the tier 2 and we will show actually it's never about the like
00:49:15
Speaker
Why did you decide tier 2 instead of tier 1? Why did Bombay experiment like that? So, Bombay was experimenting like that. So, Bombay was experimenting like that. So, Bombay was trying to solve the pain problem. So, it was brand-side. So, it wasn't too bad. So, it wasn't too bad.
00:49:51
Speaker
And you have a better life, right? Like if you don't have any pounds, you have too many pounds, you have too many pounds, 70% of the people are living, right? But there is no chain, there is no like Del Monte, like in Indore, Del Monte everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medimix, right? Everyone knows Medim
00:50:02
Speaker
Right, right.
00:50:19
Speaker
It's a very struggling way. Everything like nothing is connected with the data. Nothing is not with the technology. We realized maybe like in future we'll come to the tier one. But I think like as a business sense, I find like tier two is the biggest market, which is untapped and
00:50:51
Speaker
So whenever we raised any kind of like investment in a journey, we always came up with a milestone that and we always
00:51:03
Speaker
with the why we are raising it. So we never raised just for the raising. And as a like founders, we also believe that raising investment should not be celebrated. It's like you are proving that you are unable to like generate a product of your company that you need to sell your own equity. It's a very big difference how you see things. But we also understand that the bigger the vision is the more investment you're going to
00:51:29
Speaker
take if you want to speed up the process. It's not like we need to spend like 50 years in our life to reach to that point if we can like get like in five years. So funding was that kind of milestone. So we raised from angel investment. Why? That we will actually reach to a couple of brands.
00:52:02
Speaker
So we raised some major investments, we closed that. And then we raised seed investments. So we received investments from Intubate Fund. We met now Murakami is the like partner in Intubate Fund. We met like Intubate Fund in Bangalore.
00:52:19
Speaker
In one and only event, where we all together went, the event is one of the most patients that I have ever seen. He stayed connected with this guy, now Murkami. Patient group of one year and after one year we closed seed investment.
00:52:45
Speaker
So obviously, I'm talking about just one person. So just imagine how many person he must have been connected for one year.
00:52:51
Speaker
So when I say that this is a patient's game and now I personally don't have that patience and that's why I don't go for the investment because what you do you actually judge people then and maybe like you come up with a very different kind of a thought process maybe you try to meet some other person also and then do you also so we actually divided our work in that way where it accelerate our skill set and the side I handle the execution like ShopKirana I handle the people part in ShopKirana
00:53:19
Speaker
Okay. So Sumit looks after Fundraze, you look after. Fundraze like is, yeah, let Sumit is the, Deepak basically handles the business operations of the organization. Okay.
00:53:36
Speaker
So, like when we raise seed investment, let's prove the model. And then we made it possible. We had just one warehouse.
00:53:53
Speaker
I think like approximately one crore kind of a scale a month at that point of time. We never actually went towards a high scaling. So it's not like you need to do scale.
00:54:13
Speaker
quickly came up with one Kaurudam month number and we sustained on that number for six, eight months to do the like correction in the bottom line to understand the do the innovation, the lean model operational and we came up with the innovation of zero inventory model. We came up with the innovation in that like seed investment of that other thought process.
00:54:38
Speaker
90% share me here so I don't find as a business logic to buy a shaving cream to pick up a shaving cream from a Bangalore warehouse and deliver in my house in Indore when I know as a business person it doesn't make any sense
00:54:59
Speaker
So can like we build a technology and connect that technology with the people by connecting with the brands. So we stayed in Indore. We have heard a lot from like our own ecosystem. People want to see scale and all and I'm still today like when people say and
00:55:20
Speaker
I'm saying from day one, that there is no hurry because there is a lot of people who are looking for solutions to solve this problem. There is a lot of media that says that there is a lot of panic, a lot of hyper-bargains. But there is a lot of people who are looking for a $600 billion market. There is a lot of reliance on the people who are looking for solutions to solve this problem. So, it's a very big journey and there is a lot of people who are looking for solutions to solve this problem.
00:55:50
Speaker
And when I read about the last 100 years innovation in retail, these are very micro innovation. So these are small innovation, which needs to be followed for the next more 100 years to change the retail.
00:56:13
Speaker
And then we went forward to raise a series. We met like an investor, they intubate fund. So with that like references, we went forward in the community of raising investors and all. There was two, four calls before we actually, we have been called an info edge headquarter.
00:56:39
Speaker
And then I interested them and they called us at the office.
00:56:47
Speaker
And it's obviously like that meeting becomes always, like that fundraising meeting becomes kind of like confidential always. But there are like some beautiful moments of that meeting that in the first meeting with the Sanjeev which in Nani he got convinced and within 10 minutes he sent like founder outside and
00:57:06
Speaker
He said like, give us 10 minutes and we'll call you back. And after 10 minutes, he called back and he said, yes, we guys are interested. So let's do this. And like to be very honest, I think within like that, like 30 seconds, it looks like. So because like in fundraising, you hear a lot of those.
00:57:30
Speaker
and you had like maybe like an exponential number of no's actually rejections and then like someone like that status and so why Sanjeev because like I am I've been admiring Sanjeev from my childhood and I always say that I was when I was in seventh class he started this company and today actually he is one of the largest investor of my company so that kind of like again the thought process and that the journey part it makes like an entrepreneur extremely happy then other metrics
00:58:00
Speaker
And the second thing why we were very excited because he is not just an investor. He is an entrepreneur first and then became the investor. I mean, he created a billion dollar company.
00:58:11
Speaker
And there are more two, three more billion dollar companies under him. And like on the portfolio. And then like in FMC, we were the very first company. So again, it's again a validation for the idea that if someone can become a billion dollar from the portfolio, we can be that organization. So we got like that open hand.
00:58:33
Speaker
and like when that kind of thought passes. So we raised InfoAge, a series A from InfoAge and Better Capital and like a couple of more investors or existing investors also invested in that round. But we raised just to test something else. Again, like I said, so whenever we raised, we first come up with a why that why we are raising it so that every like investors and us also have a clear understanding that we are going what we are going to achieve.
00:58:58
Speaker
So, we came up with a why and we said that see this model is working very fine now in and out. We have worked on like most three years. We have did like everything is possible at our level and now it's working. But now the challenge is can this model work by replicating also. So, we came up with a thought.
00:59:28
Speaker
What is the replicate model? Right. So actually, like in replicate model, so what we have seen, I'm not going to name companies, but if you bring any balance sheet or penal account of any e-commerce organization, so you are going to see that 80% of the revenue of these companies are coming from the top two cities maximum.
00:59:50
Speaker
and 20% is coming from the rest of the 20 cities. So what we realized that this is not the scale of businessman would do in his life because there is a cost involved because there is a cost of people and cost operating into that particular region. We said that can we create a playbook
01:00:09
Speaker
which can help us in doing certain kind of a like maybe launching certain kind of a modules in such a way that whatever the city is doing like what are they in law and not is doing in terms of numbers.
01:00:22
Speaker
and in terms of unit economics, can another city also do the same thing? Because we are into TI2 city, right? And in TI2, most of the costing are the same, right? I mean, and there's a huge also in terms of size of a city, in terms of traveling and logistically. I mean, within 20 minutes, you can cross the entire city. But in Bangalore, you can't even think about this, right?
01:00:50
Speaker
So, when it comes to doing a business and it's not like Indore is a small place like Indore itself is doing 1300 to 1400 crores kind of a transactions a month and out of that 500 to 600 crores of grocery transactions are happening in the city. So, even the smallest city also do very crazy numbers, right?
01:01:09
Speaker
So when a if any business wants to prove or any business wants to solve any kind of like problem, like I always believe that you don't need to scale to the entire country to actually figure out the value which are going to do it right. So we said we created a playbook, we replicated a model, we launched cities within seven days.
01:01:29
Speaker
And it was just in like very lean team, like two to three people, that's it. And the task of these people were to travel the cities, stay in that city for 72 hours and hire 50 plus people, take a hub warehouse.
01:01:44
Speaker
assign vendors and create a sales like the temporary channel which actually goes to the market and onboard retailers and work with the marketing team to execute the information of the communication. So I mean these are kind of like macro things and then obviously there are a lot of like payments also involved and the person needs to obviously spend like a couple of amount to do like buy stuff and like
01:02:09
Speaker
take a warehouse and groceries and all this thing. And so we created decentralized communication and decentralized in making and only because we had this playbook. So we knew that this task required this kind of like timeline and this is the vendor and this is the bottleneck can come up and this is the helpline, which he can get access to. And that's all like within 72 hours, this one person was launching cities back to back.
01:02:36
Speaker
It was a very crazy thing because we believe that like in this industry obviously we are super connected with the competition, super connected with the people who are doing great in these business. When I talk about Walmart or Metro, when Walmart comes into a city, it takes them three years to actually start making an invoice.
01:03:04
Speaker
I said that the biggest strength of a startup is having a lean team.
01:03:10
Speaker
and reducing the timeline. So because Walmart needs to do a very heavy thing and heavy cost structure, and that's the guidelines. But as a startup, we can actually go and launch within seven days because within seven days, if we implement these modules, and in next 30 days, if it's giving the same number, which in law has come in the last three years, I think then obviously the model business is ready to scale.
01:03:38
Speaker
So what we did, we didn't receive from InfoH, we received Series A from InfoH and after raising Series A investment, we tried this particular model into Bhopal and Jaipur. Within 14 days and 7 days, we started doing crazy business in Jaipur.
01:03:59
Speaker
And if I give you a snapshot of the achievements, obviously, because I've explained the whole journey of selling the wallpapers to actually think there and this kind of a transactions.
01:04:12
Speaker
I mean first month we gave a dent of three to four corrodes to Reliance retail in Jaipur and we gave it for the next six months continuously Reliance fired almost like 25 to 35 people in that six period of timeline because they were unable to match the numbers and so
01:04:33
Speaker
And the reason is because it's not humans who are working there. Obviously, people were responsible for executing this stuff. But it was more about first finding out for the first three to four years that what's really can actually scale pretty quickly, which can actually give the value. And you can do that in the lowest cost possible.
01:04:58
Speaker
way. So we implemented both the things in Jaipur and Bhopal. We started capturing the very good market share. This was which year? This was around one and a half years back. So after series A. And why are you comparing with Reliance Retail? They have a cash and carry there. You're comparing with that or you're comparing with the
01:05:19
Speaker
No, no, no, I'm comparing basis. So reliance of like different modules. So one is reliance detail. And second is reliance fresh. And these two stores are for direct consumers, people can walk in and buy stuff.
01:05:30
Speaker
But in certain cities, including Jaipur, Reliance has one more model, which is called Reliance Wholesale. So Reliance Wholesale, so they also have indoor also. So Reliance Wholesale is a pure B2B model, so no one can actually walk in, and they actually sell to the retailers only, and the way we do. But instead of technology, they have these warehouses, obviously, and then they have salespeople who go like a distributor and they can order on their tablet or something.
01:05:58
Speaker
and then deliver. So they're like your most direct competition in a way this Reliance Cash and Carry business. I would not select the most direct because they are into because Reliance is into everything.
01:06:11
Speaker
So they are not particularly focusing only on the Kirana stores selling the FMCG and grocery. And it's a very different range. I mean, the numbers which we do in Jaipur, I mean, I'll give you the one city number, I think it will have the very good context that how it really helps to identify the right category and the right product because the knowledge says that what are the modern retailers sells. These are the different SKUs what a Kirana guy sells.
01:06:40
Speaker
And it can be a different grammar, it can be different price at certain level, not like all products, but at certain level who do the maximum sales, because that's why big MNC companies give them a product or approval to sell to the market when they are aware that 99% of the market in the hands of mom and pops tool.
01:07:01
Speaker
So Reliance basically, and then there is a Metro also, and there's a Walmart also. These are those stores who are like big warehouses and where people can walk in and buy stuff, but they also require some certain kind of licenses. And licenses, they don't really want to see that, are you the right Kirana guy or are you the business owner? You can be any kind of business owner, any kind of licenses, you can walk in, create three more cards.
01:07:27
Speaker
So with that, the thing which keeps shop kirana separately from display, and today we see it's a very crowded space, everyone wants to get a pie of the kirana stores. But still, we have found our niche space where we never distracted ourselves from Marvin Pops stores, who are selling Marvin, like FMCZ in grocery, I mean the territories where we work in.
01:07:49
Speaker
We there are apparel retailers also the electronic retailer also and I think that also the same model because that's the you just connect the suppliers and the distributor and you already have the things at the place but the thing is it is the is the only thing which is untapped and it is the only thing
01:08:09
Speaker
which no one actually were able to solve. This is because to actually transport 10 kg of Aata from A point to B point or transport may be a fair and lovely from A point to B point. It requires may be a same different value of that product.
01:08:27
Speaker
but the fit-in we have like different kind of a margin and very less weight but the 10 kg RTA requires a huge logistic cost which and also have a very thin margin so it's kind of like huge learning in that space so the number I was giving to you about the Jaipur that in Jaipur we have Reliance Wholesale we have Metro there Walmart is not there we have Metro and then there are a couple of e-commerce companies are also working in Jaipur
01:08:57
Speaker
But amazingly, I'll give you the number how much we have closed in last January. So we have closed January. We launched a feature called Direct, Shopkirana Direct.
01:09:09
Speaker
because ShopKirana is a controlled marketplace. We don't believe in open marketplace where anyone can become the seller and anyone can become the buyer. So it has always been working in the same way. So in general, we opened up a feature into the application itself. And we said the commodities we don't do because I mean, it gets huge volume, but it don't get a good margin and it doesn't make a business sense just to get the volume. So we actually took the priority
01:09:37
Speaker
not to do the commodity and let other people do the commodity who are already doing in their city. So commodity means like loose at a loose. Right. Like loose sugar. And I mean, the person who is unorganized, he makes money. But the company, it's very difficult because it requires use license and taxation and everything. But
01:10:07
Speaker
So, when a transaction of doing like people are doing like 20 lakhs a month, for them 15% is a big thing because they are doing since years and ages. So, they are very much okay not realizing and that's the pain for MMC brands also and they face because
01:10:24
Speaker
they cannot actually discount because the structure doesn't allow them to discount. But there is a local wholesaler who discount very easily because he really don't care about the structure and he makes money because they don't make that money. These are very small figures I am talking about.
01:10:39
Speaker
Anyway, so we do more business than like Metro closed January and Metro is the biggest retailer of this country in numbers today and Metro closed Jaipur with 16 curve of sales approximately.
01:10:55
Speaker
in January 2020 in Jaipur. We closed January with 42 crores of sales in Jaipur. So that's kind of like more than double the numbers what Metro did and Metro is operating from so many years and we launched Jaipur one and a half years back.
01:11:15
Speaker
And how much of this was from direct, the commodities? Direct was like 50%. 50% was the direct. All of a sudden, it increased the top line by 100%. So direct, say, what is your value proposition? You do the logistics there. You are just allowing people to do listings. See, the idea of direct was, you know, like how udon works. So udon
01:11:43
Speaker
So, we said that Udon actually operates logistically.
01:11:48
Speaker
And that's how they created the huge network because if you go to a whole chiller and look, if you go to any tater and you ask a tater that there's a mobile platform, you'll get the order. You sell off like any prices you want. All margin is yours. And I'll also come at your place and pick up the product and build deliver. So it saves them a huge money. And obviously it's a strategy to like start the, start making the margin after two years or five years after down the line. So there's the pure strategy everywhere comes up.
01:12:16
Speaker
but what we said that I have so when I was working in the market I realized that and we said we all sat in the meeting the office and we said like how to compete with Iran because we don't do commodity Iran is doing like community and we have this VC there is a competitor but it's not like
01:12:33
Speaker
We it dented the market share of what would the category be working? We still do the biggest numbers in Jaipur, but why? How we can actually do exponentially great in all the cities how we can actually go very deeply So we identify okay, so they are the community and all and
01:12:51
Speaker
So what I personally believe that 90% of the market is run by unorganized wholesalers and retailers and all. So we need to understand also, I mean, they have like local traders, they have local logistic and vendors and all this thing.
01:13:10
Speaker
Every day they do this and thousands and thousands of people every day they do this, right? So I said, why when someone is already doing that, so why you want to solve that problem? 90% market is already doing that. It was a pain problem. So there were a lot of companies who were providing this value.
01:13:32
Speaker
So, this is not a problem. The problem is only he may pass me. So, again because of the shop Kirana, the only change what we did is we will not do logistic because these people are expert in doing a logistic in lesser cost than we will ever do like any company can do. So, let them do that.
01:13:51
Speaker
we will help them to gain the market share the way we gain the market. So instead of making five or 10 or 50 sellers or suppliers of one particular brand which happens in the marketplace, we said no, no, no, no, we want to become the market share leader. So a supplier also wants to become the market share leader. So let's identify a person who can become the like territory king of this entire Japur and will give them a demand. But they have to obviously supply and take the service part on
01:14:20
Speaker
him and he'll on the margin also because other work like though karat or we can help him into like three crores and that's the value we will do because that we that's where we expertise is so we'll not get ourselves into the heavy cost structure in any kind of like penny just to try a competition kind of like field we will just like implement and it really worked very very very well and then we implemented in in dot and
01:14:46
Speaker
So likewise, we did a lot of innovation for the new brands also. So in this direct business, what is your commission? How much do you earn in that? So we charge minimum 0.5%, minimum 0.5%. And then it depends for certain brands, which are 10% also. And these are those brands who maybe have less market share in that city, but they are good brands.
01:15:11
Speaker
and maybe a new brand which is coming up the city and we have become the exclusive partner. So we are like... But direct is like unbranded. No, so what we do, so this is a structure. So we have created an ecosystem. So the idea of ShopKirana is to create the ecosystem, not just to create a mobile application. So first we captured the retailers into that ecosystem and we started giving him like value services other than selling the products. So now he can get the credit facility on the platform.
01:15:40
Speaker
now he can become the e-commerce player on Amazon with the help of Shopkerana and he is doing that Amazon Easing part and he can get the insurance. So these are the value added services and it was always the last priority to add up once you actually get the good value addition for the sourcing part.
01:16:01
Speaker
So wherever the sourcing part is getting mature, so we are adding these values. And then the second layer, which we actually picked is distribution, because in the stanmepura, it's a very distributed and distribution system. And it's very unorganized, it's very inefficient. So when we integrate our technology and our thought process and demand,
01:16:25
Speaker
into that distribution model, then it becomes like super efficient and it increase the demand also. So, what we do, we created a layer, we call this ecosystem and in that ecosystem, there is a SK direct, a ShopKirana direct feature. And just one application, in that application, there are like three kind of like features, this is one ShopKirana direct
01:16:43
Speaker
And in that Shopkerana, what's really happening, these are the traders who are getting connected on the platform. So on that traders, we give them an opportunity to actually become an exclusive trader of that particular brand. So we actually show them a brand, a new brand, which is coming, they get a good margin because it's a new brand. And these brands, we convert to marketing and branding also along with Shopkerana. So we help them to increase the demand because that's how the brands need to launch.
01:17:12
Speaker
As a platform, I don't believe that without actually working on a brand building in a consumer product, you can actually put your product in a very huge number of retail stores in a general trade. I mean, you can sell online, you can get maybe like two, three, five crore a month kind of a sales. And when you sell online direct to end consumers, it will look good because you can get like 40, 50, 60% kind of like very good cross margin on their product.
01:17:41
Speaker
But in reality, when you go on a GT, you will realize that within five kilometer of a radius, people are selling more than 10 groups of that particular single product into that category. So there's a huge gap between the transaction which happens on the offline and GT market and what happens online. So we created a shop Kirana like SK Direct.
01:18:02
Speaker
into that pillar that we claim that it is the first and the biggest GT launch basically, in general trade go to mark that form. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay. So in a way, Shopkirana is like Amazon Prime, Amazon could deliver. So that is Shopkirana and Shopkirana direct is where it is fulfilled by the vendor themselves. Got it. Okay.
01:18:30
Speaker
So in the last one and a half years after you started your series when you started going into other cities. So how many cities have you covered? Like where are you now today? Right. It was a crazy scale because we never scale. I mean, as an entrepreneur also, I will say, I mean, not just me, I think my founders can claim this thing and it's a
01:18:50
Speaker
opportunity for an entrepreneur to actually do everything in life for the very first time when you achieve certain kind of like milestone. So as an entrepreneur, obviously, I have been like hustling and working, but I've never hired like hundreds of people in a single shot. I mean, I never had the money to have hundreds of people. I mean, I always say that the biggest highness which comes from an investment is understanding that now you can hire the biggest talent and you can afford that talent.
01:19:17
Speaker
because it's kind of like bliss to actually work with the brilliant mind people. I mean, I wrote Cat, I got like such a super bad percentile and then my college got shut down and then you can get people from IMS and IIT and to work with these brilliant mind people and to work with these people is a very great mind. So what I personally liked about like the investment is now we can actually put you fast scale after raising series A within six months, we raised series B
01:19:46
Speaker
Because in series A, we scaled Jaipur and Bhopal. We showed the numbers. The number was coming within 30 to 60 days. We were capturing the market share, and we realized the model is ready to scale now. And we again went back to the investment community. Within six months, we closed series B round also with $10 million. And the idea was to quickly scale to another city, another part of the cities of that particular state.
01:20:13
Speaker
So it's a hyper local model like Uber. We don't work on a state level, we work on a city by city level. So we have been working in eight cities. And these are the eight cities comes under four states. So when you see on an India map, you will see certain kind of like circle is becoming when you see these cities.
01:20:34
Speaker
And the idea of creating that circle on India map is because when we are, uh, it's a business strategy, uh, because when you actually do the multi-city and when you are also not a very big player, so you might say in efficiency or maybe a issue in a supply of a product into that particular city. But when you are the circle into that particular visa, like in the country level.
01:20:54
Speaker
So you can actually buy the product from one place and send it across to another city without paying the huge logistic cost and your service still maintains. So we took this opportunity to scale into the Madhya Pradesh, we were into Madhya Pradesh, we scale to Bhopal, then we went to Rajasthan, we went to Gujarat, in Surat, in Dabad, we went to UP, UP we launched in Nagra, we got to Lucknow. Lucknow, Lucknow, Lucknow, Ahmedabad,
01:21:23
Speaker
Jaipur law, these are very big cities in terms of the truth the transaction when we compare with Agra and all but the idea is to capture 25 to 30 TA2 cities of this country I mean like we are into Ahmedabad but Ahmedabad is on paper it is a TA2 city but in terms of you know it is not honestly not a TA2 city it's a like 70 kilometer like stretch and it is going towards a TA1 city it behaves like a TA1 city and
01:21:52
Speaker
It was a good strategy because again, the business sense and like the people and the talent you get and the structure is cost and everything. It is not like Bangalore and Delhi or Bombay, but still you can actually operate a tier two kind of like model there and have the beneficial of tier one sales structure. And then we innovated. Once we entered into the city, we kept the market share. We have like one lakh.
01:22:21
Speaker
plus network of retailers, wholesalers and traders and distribution and everyone in the ecosystem. We and like this one like plus is including like everyone which I said about, but these are not only from these eight cities. So what innovation we did, we created another model while working.
01:22:42
Speaker
We said that can we actually create a KPP? So KPP are one of those model where we innovated again and we created business partners into 150 kilometer radius of any hub where we operate into this country. And we started supplying to these people also so that they can actually go into that particular tier three and tier four and they can increase the network. So indirectly we started creating the network in the tier two, three with the help of these structures.
01:23:12
Speaker
Third like the scale which we did after series B is We start building brands. I mean the the success which I see the success formula There are three basically points. I think I explained this earlier also Five years back when we started this company, we wrote down these three things that how we are going to succeed And there's only three points. The number one is build network
01:23:38
Speaker
And it's a network of retailers or customers or like brands or contact manufacturers. And the second is build technology system and processes because if a company is owned by you, then it's going to be a very big failure. So the company needs to run by the system and processes. That's what I have learned from a very big organization.
01:24:00
Speaker
Third thing is build brands on about that. So we created a network. We started creating a network by taking a commission from XMCG brands. These are your ITC, PNC, all the big brands. I've also faced a lot of arguments and many obviously conflicts that these are very big brands. I mean, even a Metro best price, they have like 11 to 12% kind of like gross margin, like at such scale.
01:24:27
Speaker
So how the margins and like, I'm pretty much sure that when you talk about the union, you're not going to give you more than 10 to 15% of a margin in any way. Right. And so it's not like a hundred percent of a kind of a gross business, but when we talk about the numbers and when we talk about the scale, it's kind of like 50,000 crore, one lakh crore kind of like transactions. So when you actually take that transactions and get it like 2%.
01:24:53
Speaker
that's also like very big in terms of the profit which the whole industry makes and that's why these like very big retailers survive and smaller don't because
01:25:05
Speaker
this model at after certain level, once you actually prove the model, it works only at this scale level. So it doesn't work at a city level award, because when you actually want to create a scale of maybe a very big billion dollar organization. So like creating a unit economics for just one city and being profitable in just one city doesn't really help because there's thousands of businessmen who are already profitable in that city before you
01:25:30
Speaker
doing the same business but they never knew and they never understood how to scale and make a bigger business. So we always argue that obviously right at the very first level you have to prove that can you actually make a business sense at one city but once you actually make now the second job is to scale and after it scales then you need to again figure out then all the cities make the business sense or not and if it doesn't make the business sense then obviously you scale in a pretty bad direction. So that's what
01:26:00
Speaker
we call the replication. So what are the number in those doing 80% of the same number other cities are doing some of these obviously are big enough. So they do proportionally very big like one example, I gave you a number of like Jaipur. So in Jaipur, we launched direct also so it started contributed 20 crores extra. And in other business also Jaipur is obviously bigger than Bhopal. So we cannot like compare Jaipur and Bhopal the same number. But when we talk about the proportional level at like 80, 80, 85% is coming in the same.
01:26:29
Speaker
which obviously gave us the confidence. We created a network and the second thing, we started building a technology very deeply for brands, for suppliers, for internal employees and warehouses. We had to create everything from the scrap because what really is there in the market that you can find an ERP system, you can find an order taking application, you can find anything, I think whatever we have built.
01:26:56
Speaker
But the thing is you cannot find just one platform contributing everything from end to end. So these are all like different thing which solves a different problem. So it's not the same because B2B market is totally different. And we build the technology and in like the third or fourth year of the company, after raising seed investment and I think like pushing forward after like raising series A,
01:27:26
Speaker
We told ourselves, let's start learning how to build a brand, because we raised a good amount of money for a learning cost. We cannot go back to the school and learn how to build brands. But as a consumer brand, we are into a platform business. But if we actually build the brands, so we can actually build these brands on the existing network. And there is a very big difference between building a brand and selling a private label.
01:27:54
Speaker
So we always make sure that we are into a building brand and we are not into private level. And the difference is when you talk about the private level, you talk about the private level about selling on the same platform who invented them, right? So Metro sells their own dolls, Best Buy sells their own black products, Reliance sells their own products.
01:28:13
Speaker
big basket selling products. But these are those basically those product who sells on their own platform, because that's the data capturing is happening that what where we can actually put the product and it gets start selling. So we said, no, we want to build a brand. And the thing about brand is that there are other people in the market who are ready to sell your product.
01:28:36
Speaker
So not to be like consumers. So if there are no traders, if there are no retailers and no distributors, then there's no brand. So we, and the difference is no one actually goes to the kirana store to buy Reliance Dal. People go to the kirana store to buy maybe Ashiyawat kind of a art, right? So they don't go and say like best price kind of a, and that's the difference between a brand and to build a brand, you need to like create a demand so that people actually leave their home and go to the offline market and ask for that particular product.
01:29:03
Speaker
So it was a very big learning because we were like experimenting from last three years, we were seeing some traction on certain products, which we did experiment. But once we stopped selling, we didn't see any traction. So we realized basically, these were the people who were responsible to push the product into the channel. And we were doing numbers, but there was no demand of that product. So we feel like editing that. So with like series investment, we cited like certain amount. We again, like pick just one city in law.
01:29:31
Speaker
We painted, to be very honestly, we painted the entire city in an orange color kind of a thing. We placed like 1,000 billboards in a city on a Kirana store. We placed like 1,500 approximately counters of Kia San Kirana on a counter like we did like thousands and thousands of obviously landlords and all. We did 200, 300 kind of a big wall.
01:30:01
Speaker
Also, as a startup and as an entrepreneur, really starting from zero, this company, we understood the value of company. So what we did in advertisement also, we innovated advertisement modules. We said that when you go to the agency, when you ask for a billboard, they ask you 50,000 to five lakhs amount for that billboard.
Creative Marketing and Brand Building
01:30:24
Speaker
But just nearby that billboard, I see a very big house because we are living in a Toyota city. It's not like they are very big multis. It's very independent houses. And I see a big wall. So why not you go there, ask for his wall and ask him that we give him a one month free Kisan Kirana. And it was just 1000, 2000 bucks. So we just tried that. And everyone loved that idea. And within seven days, we had 200 billboards hanging out of the city.
01:30:51
Speaker
without paying anyone the money. And it created the fucking like very big thing. Then what we did, we actually went to the auto stands and the idea of building a brand that there are two things which I learned because I as a formal learning
01:31:05
Speaker
in any company in my entire life. I did in Mudra communication in my second year of my MBA. I went there for my internship, Mudra communication, the second largest advertisement company, it's owned by Iran. And I went there for 45 days internship. I learned like a couple of things there. I worked on project called Volkswagen. I worked on certain project with these people. And I was very curious that how they actually run the advertisement agency.
01:31:32
Speaker
And instead of learning how to become a good copywriter or art director, I actually asked my boss in Mudra that can you show me different department, what they do and how they are money and all the thing. And she was like, she was like amazing person. She actually asked me to meet the director, art director of the mudra who helped me actually understand this particular thing. And in second year, I went there, I came back, I launched my own advertising agency and
01:32:02
Speaker
And that was the like Napster era, which I talked about.
Rapid Scaling and Strategic Execution
01:32:07
Speaker
So, yeah, like this is the thing like we have like a scale pretty fast from like after raising series, we have a scale in numbers of brands, people. But if I talk about the growth, I'll not say that because we didn't stop.
01:32:22
Speaker
scaling before raising series B, we are like once we started series A, we started scaling and series B was the part of that particular scale. So if I give you like a little bit of the context of the number of the growth, so we have grown from 25 to 1000 people in one year from one city to we are now presented to four states. We have like one lakh plus kind of like network on the whole ecosystem. And a shop Kirana is one of the highest average order size per customer a month or
01:32:52
Speaker
per order for customers also in the industry. We did innovation because in detail, what I believe is there's a very small innovation which happened because I mean, we don't see a very big magic, but we see a very, very tiny, small innovation, which contributes in a very big kind of like numbers, like a barcode in the car and all this thing. So I realized that for a retailer, there's
01:33:22
Speaker
no channel, I mean for brands also, there are no channels to launch products in FMCG and consumer in a GT market, the trade market. And so can we come up with something? So we created a flash, flash sales kind of a thing, which helps brand to launch a product overnight in a city. And we use that particular obviously, like it's our own, own, own, own like feature. So we use it to launch our own brands.
01:33:50
Speaker
We did that kind of marketing for Kisan Kirana. And we launched that Kisan Kirana on this particular module. Then because of the database and all the gaps which we have found, we used the money of marketing and doing these innovations. It was a huge, huge kind of... People honestly didn't know about Chop Kirana, but almost 10 out of 8 people knew about Kisan Kirana.
01:34:19
Speaker
because as a shop Kirana, we never pasted a single sticker also because B2B company, we know who are the 4,000 customers, you don't need to waste money on marketing and just go there, convince them it's a hard B2B play human to human. But Kiran Kirana was a consumer brand. So it was the very first time we were trying to do something, it worked. And milestone was, can we do one crore of a sale in a city of Kiran Kirana, just Kiran Kirana, before thinking about scaling this brand.
01:34:49
Speaker
And we did that within six months. And one crew is a very big amount because the category which we are doing, we had competition from the local players because there is no unity or ITC in that particular category. So we had these players and every city have these players and they do very good business. And we have this Poha, the biggest manufacturer or like the biggest like brand of like in DOR in Poha. And he is present in DOR from 15 to 17 years.
01:35:16
Speaker
regional family, home run business, very well reputed like that. And they do approximately one crore kind of a sale one or 1.2 crore kind of a sale a month. And we achieve that sale in like six months. So obviously, like it made a team very happy that certain times what really happens that you come up with your own mental thought. And if you don't have a mental thought, you actually go very deeply to the market. And because I've always believed
01:35:43
Speaker
I handle the execution in my company. And there's a lot of weakness in first lady in me when it comes to work also, I and the weakness is basically immediately comes from the kind of like giving a priority towards the speed to get the things done. So I sometimes like bypass the maybe the structure which I created just to get the speed then the things to get in the very fast pace. And I believe that this is the DNA which we have built in a shop here and also
01:36:13
Speaker
like without actually intentionally putting into the perspective that now everyone like work in the way that they have to like get it done fast instead of like wasting time in like finding the perfect thing or maybe confusing the ecosystem that it's gonna take years or so.
01:36:33
Speaker
because it also gives an advantage at the company level. I explained my team that when you actually go in speed, when you achieve that number, you actually increase the probability of a success because of two reasons. Number one is if you fail, you fail very fast and you can actually understand the mistakes and all.
01:36:52
Speaker
And the second thing is, when you actually go any speed and get the success, you actually give no time to the competitor to understand what really happened. So you like within like blink of an eye, you actually capture the market share.
Leadership Dynamics and Co-founders' Roles
01:37:04
Speaker
So what happened in the airport, it was just blink of an eye. I mean, obviously, if I mean, like, to be like very fangly speaking, I mean, we cannot compete with Reliance. If Reliance headquarters decided in their boardroom that would help the shop get an eye,
01:37:22
Speaker
I'm sure that they would have killed us. But the thing is, obviously, we wanted to see that if it works or not, do we have that kind of passion? I mean, why we actually did that 20 crore in the commodity for the very first month in direct also, because I was sitting with Deepak. And Deepak is the person who comes with a huge background in FMCG, and a brilliant person who might list an art.
01:37:47
Speaker
And he's a very, he's one of the most practical person. I mean, when I compare why, like, was the DNA of a shop, it's kind of like three different identity are running this company. And the great part about all these three identity are all the three people thinks very differently.
01:38:04
Speaker
So it helps you to keep on the pace in the right direction. So the company never go on a very high speed. The company never go on a very slow speed. So it always a mixture because someone is there to push up, maybe pull back. Deepak is the system process guy. He works on a super practical situation. He works on super practicality. He don't believe in kind of magic and he hates the word automatic.
01:38:29
Speaker
So he always say that nothing happens automatically. There are like certain things you need to do. So never say that your viral over yoga for doing a viral. Also, there are certain things people do. So it never happens automatically. So he is and I am the kind of like that person. I'm like, yep. And if you don't know what are those things we're going to work. So we need to work maybe 10 more things very quickly. And that's all I will figure out. So and that's the combination. So what how we work. So I handle the execution, I go to the city, I launch
01:38:57
Speaker
I keep the retailer, I keep the business and I know I have created a whole like structure and organized structure. I have hired people, I have like started the sales, I have now retailers on board, I have brands and warehouses and now like invoices are making, people are making invoices, orders are coming in and it's getting dispatched and getting delivered, money is getting in the account. So it's kind of like order to basically the bank deposit.
01:39:23
Speaker
And once at certain level, I give the whole structure to Deepak, who handles the operation the day to day. And his job is to make it sustainable. And his job is to actually eliminate the mess, which I've created and creating in a very specific way. And I've always, and I think I take this as an advantage because I know like Deepak is going to solve this thing.
01:39:47
Speaker
And if I had maybe wrong people at wrong place, I know he's going to solve the thing, he's going to come back and he's going to ask that maybe he needs the training and maybe we need to shuffle. So it's not like if I inserted certain weak modules, so it's always and always going to get sorted out because there's one other responsible person out there. So there's a combination that you work in. Sumit on the other hand is one of the, I think,
01:40:17
Speaker
like the best gentleman I've ever met in my life to be very honest. I mean, there's like huge etiquette in terms of I mean, I've never seen like some with veering like Salwala t-shirt in my whole fucking life in like five to six years. So I'm like, okay, I mean, this guy is like is coming from a very good family. It's a pure business family.
01:40:37
Speaker
He went to Carnegie Mellon.
Fundraising and Relationship Focus
01:40:40
Speaker
He did a lot of internships in a lot of very big companies and worked on very few projects and came back and joined as a co-founder and we started the company together.
01:40:58
Speaker
People, it's about people. So I am the person who I am the people part. I'm the person who I can take care of the whole people management and HR and execution. And I take care of the brand building and the marketing. People are the person who take care of the maximum operations part, like the daily sales and operations, delivery, the economics and the operations, everything. So it is the person who takes care of both of us and the investment and the finance part of the company.
01:41:28
Speaker
And and that's all like we divided the rules and and I think these are the rules are coming from the own personality and the characteristics Which we love I think if I was the person who was doing the fundraise I don't know like how many founders can see this thing But I am like pretty sure that if I was the person who was responsible for the fundraise in the days that
01:41:51
Speaker
I don't think that we would have ever raised investment. The reason, I think, comes not because of the company, what the company is doing. The reason comes because of the patience, because it requires huge patience. And Sumit is the person who actually works on a relationship instead of money. Because, I mean, the people who actually invested in Shopkirana, these are very good people. They're coming from a very big background, very amazing experience. So it's not just the money which we actually achieve.
01:42:20
Speaker
is the great background and the connection also. So ladies and gents, that was Tanithya Saraswath, the founder of ShopKirana. For all the retailers out there, do check out the ShopKirana app or website to get access to tons of exciting offers backed by excellent service levels of the ShopKirana team.
01:42:41
Speaker
If you like the Founder Thesis Podcast, then do check out our other shows on subjects like Marketing, Technology, Career Advice, Books and Drama. Visit the podium.in that is t-h-e-p-o-d-i-u-m.in for a complete list of all our shows.
01:43:27
Speaker
This was an HD Smartcast original.