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63. Must The Show Go On?
59 Plays1 year ago
Are Holograms and Avatars the future of live music?
Last year, KISS announced that they would “live on eternally” through their brand new avatars who would take over the roles of KISS from their human counterparts and opened up a world of touring and viewing options for them. ABBA successfully executed the Voyage tour - using 160 cameras to capture facial expressions and body movements to simulate a real show. Meanwhile Dio, Tupac and Zappa’s deaths did not stop them from touring- as their holograms were tested with real live bands backing them to, again, try to simulate a real show.
In this episode, we debate and discuss in great depth the pros and cons of all of the experiments listed above, try to ascertain whether or not this tarnishes or furthers a legacy and ask ourselves: Would we go to a virtual gig?
Viewing Material:
- Frank Zappa Hologram: Frank Zappa - Zappa Band Hologram Tour - Dirty Love - Scottish Rite Auditorium May 02 2019
- Dio Hologram: Ronnie James Dio Hologram Rocks Pollstar Awards
- Tupac Hologram: Tupac Hologram Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre Perform Coachella Live 2012
- ABBA Voyage: ABBA Voyage: The Journey Is About To Begin
- KISS Avatar Announcement: Kiss Avatar announcement - NYC final show
- Gorillaz - Clint Eastwood Live: Gorillaz - Clint Eastwood (Live BRITs Performance)
LONG LIVE ROCK ‘N’ ROLL
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Transcript
Introduction and Topic Overview
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello there and welcome back to another episode of the Long Live Rock and Roll Podcast with your host, Mr. Laz Michaelides here on the screen opposite Nenius the Felipe Hammering. How you doing, bro? Doing great, man. How are you? Very well, thank you. How's everyone?
00:00:26
Speaker
We can't hear your answers. I'm sure they're fine. Yeah. Do you know what we haven't done in ages? A ceremonial Felipe cracking a beer open. So we thought we'd bring it back. You've got to do it, bro. Exactly. It's, you know, it's a cider today. Quite like it. Oh, a cider. My bad. Yeah. They're not giving me any money, but I'm promoting them anyway.
Virtual Shows and Holograms in Music
00:00:47
Speaker
Pretty cool stuff. So yeah. So this is the sound of rock and roll.
00:00:55
Speaker
Imagine that we need to categorically establish a sound for rock and roll that isn't an instrument or a riff. What would it be? A beer cracking? Most definitely. But welcome back to the show guys. You might be wondering, maybe the title of the episode is giving it away. Maybe you've really read the description of our show, but you might be wondering if you're watching us, what the visuals behind myself and Felipe this week are.
00:01:23
Speaker
What we're doing is we're doing a show that we're calling, the title of this episode is, must the show go on? And what we're going to be doing is discussing virtual shows and holograms in music, which has been a big kind of talking point in recent months. You know, last year Kiss announced that they were going to live on eternally in their music by creating avatars of themselves that they would then parade and tour around the country and the world
00:01:51
Speaker
so that their fans could still enjoy live kiss shows. But without them, as older men now, without them having to actually do all the legwork of touring anyways. And myself and Felipe chatted about this, and we thought this is just so interesting. We have to do an episode on it. So that is the premise of today's show. So I suppose let's get into it. Do you have anything? Yeah. Can we start from that? Let's do it. That's a great point. Absolutely.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yeah, I find it interesting, what you said interesting, and that's the right word for it, because I can't really... Give me two seconds just to tell everyone that what we've done is in the show notes today, in the below, in the show description, we've put a bunch of videos on YouTube that has been a reference what we're talking to. You've got the Frank Zappa hologram, the Ronnie James Dio hologram, the Tupac hologram, Abba's tiny documentary, Kiss's Avatar announcement, and Gorilla's live performance.
00:02:46
Speaker
So watch them before you crack on with this show so that you know what we're talking about. Felipe please carry on sir.
Impact of Technology on Live Music
00:02:52
Speaker
Yeah yeah it's cool to watch those videos and give us an idea of how crazy is the world of technology. Kind of half live gigs. It's not even live gigs anymore.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yes, we've got, and for those of you who are just listening, I've got Elvis Presley with an orchestra behind me. Elvis is on screen, the orchestra is real. And I've got the kiss avatars, the brand new kiss, the virtual kiss. They look quite, I don't know, it's like a religious experience, isn't it?
00:03:30
Speaker
it's yeah it's it's weird anyway um so um yeah so kiss that was an interesting one because it kind of shocked me so okay i'll tell you what i thought would happen with kiss and they have something uh that's so um so incredible the fact that they they've elevated the brand to a level that no bands got what they've got which is like the the
00:03:55
Speaker
the masks are more famous than their own faces. And the brand, it went so beyond music because you can buy anything with Kiss on it. You can have their faces or the band logo in literally any product that you can possibly imagine. So they make much more money out of merchandise than live gigs. And that's amazing. I think that's an accomplishment.
00:04:24
Speaker
and it's super fun when you think about it a band that is like it's a video game it's a t-shirt is you know the mug and you know all the merchandise you're normally used to but um the condoms they got everything so it's just insane right um and you would think that they don't need at this point in their careers to do something that damages the brand
00:04:49
Speaker
And I had a feeling that because the image and the masks are so big and so widely accepted among the fans, I would think you could have any good musicians with those masks
00:05:10
Speaker
kind of pretending to be them, but making it clear, we're not KISS, but we're hired by KISS to be here performing their songs. Bear with me, because I have a vision of this, which is a much simpler thing that they could have done. Two of the original members are not with the band anymore.
KISS's Brand Evolution and Tribute Bands
00:05:29
Speaker
Ace Fairley and what's the name? Peter Criss, isn't it? Yes. Yeah, they're not with the band. They haven't been in the band for years. They did a couple of appearances and stuff. But so I know they got Eric Singer on drums, which is one of the best session drummers out there. And he now has the mask, I think, or the face painting that used to belong to Peter Criss. So they're basically keeping the characters alive using different musicians. But yeah, OK.
00:05:58
Speaker
You have the two singers in the band that everyone expects to be like, they expect them to be there. So without them, maybe if you don't have Gene Simons, you can't call it a kiss. But as you already have half of the band replaced by other musicians and everyone's okay with that, why don't you just replace the whole band, keep the show going with the same structure, the same visuals and everything.
00:06:28
Speaker
add something to the name. This is not KISS, just call it KISS Legacy. That's a great point. This is sponsored by KISS. It's organized by the original members. They could do a couple of appearances once per tour, whatever.
00:06:44
Speaker
And that's like a tribute band with all the structure and the crew and everything the original band had, and they're good enough to perform those songs live. So I would go to that gig, but add something to the name, be clever.
00:07:01
Speaker
like you know Kiz immortal, Kiz legacy, Kiz whatever, don't just call it the band as the original band and then no one can say anything about it so I don't want to go whatever. Now what they're doing is they're replacing the musicians for like avatars and if what they showed at the end of the gig is what people are going to have
00:07:24
Speaker
I'll be honest, it's just crap because there's no live music in it. They've been replaced by an image on screen and are they just going to play the records? Is that it? Are you going to have like the album, the original versions of the songs playing and still on the screen? It's very odd, isn't it? I definitely wouldn't go to that. No, I said, funnily enough,
00:07:44
Speaker
When I was doing, obviously, the research for the episode, I was looking through all the ones that we're gonna talk about today, and the kiss one I actually felt was the biggest letdown, because when I watched the announcement trailer, again, all the links are down in the show notes, it felt like a video game. And I thought, you know, the characters were very video gaming. We're gonna talk about how these other artists did this, because some of them had a fantastic method of doing them, but we'll get into that later.
00:08:12
Speaker
Kiss's new experience, this avatar thing, it feels too virtual. Sometimes it feels like you should rein in the technology when it doesn't suit the purpose. And if the purpose is to go and see Kiss, I'm thinking you're not seeing Kiss, are you? You're seeing a screen with people on them.
00:08:39
Speaker
I like, yeah, like you said, I'm waiting to hear what they're going to do with the music because it feels very, very cheap. And yeah, what we're trying to say feels very cheap and unauthentic. If you're just going to put some visuals on the screen and have the, uh, and have the, the, the, the, the records playing, I think it makes more sense to me to consume any other of their products. Yeah.
00:09:06
Speaker
know, buy their beer or the t-shirt instead of like, it makes more, I would be happy to give them my money with that kind of stuff, but not to go to a fake concert. Like, because at the end of the day, like, can't you just do that from home? Isn't the live music experience something you couldn't have at home?
00:09:27
Speaker
Very good point, and I remember during the lockdowns, during the pandemic, we had a few bands who were performing live and doing live streams. I mean, we were doing it, weren't we, bro? We were hopping around everywhere. Yeah, loads of them. Just live streams to audiences to keep people, you know, trying to keep them sane during that really tough period.
00:09:49
Speaker
There's an authenticity with that because you're watching people perform in front of your eyes. Yes, you're seeing it on a screen, but ultimately, I think you get the payoff because you still see the live interactions, you still hear a live sound. I've always maintained, I love a live sound where they don't overdub it. Also, in some places like in the UK, you couldn't go actually and see a live band.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yes. So it's like, it's like, what's the next best thing I can go on YouTube and start watching a concert or whatever? It's like, I want, I want the, I want anything that resembles live music and the feeling of being at a gig. So I'm going to maybe go on YouTube and watch Guns N' Roses concert. Yeah, cool. Oh, wait a minute. My local band here, the guys, I would go to the pub to see them or go to, to the music club to see them. They actually doing
00:10:38
Speaker
a live stream. Okay. So they are playing right now. I can't be there in the same room. I can't have that feeling of being in a room, grabbing my beer, but you know, I can grab my beer at home, watch them on my telly. And that was like the next best thing. Temporarily, everyone knew that I wouldn't last forever. So that's all good. Now, if you have the option of going to a music club or venue and watch a real band on stage,
00:11:05
Speaker
Why would you just watch a band on screen with literally no musicians involved? My point is, if they don't have any musicians involved, that's really, really cheap, as you said, I don't think. It's what their fans deserve. They have the most dedicated fans in the world. Yeah, we don't know how it's going to be. My hope is that there's a live band playing behind them.
00:11:30
Speaker
but I don't see how you call that a kiss experience. Although what you said is fantastic. Yeah, I don't know. What you said is fantastic. The idea of just replacing the band and just saying, listen, this is a kiss approved live act. We found these guys, they're the best in the business of their instruments or, you know, some of the best. This is a kiss approved live show called Kiss Legacy. And this is, we're too old to carry on. We've given them the name. We've been so kind about that. Exactly. We're handing them over, handing the reins to them. And like you said, any,
00:12:01
Speaker
Any bunch of good musicians that sound like KISS,
00:12:06
Speaker
can do a good job with the right production behind them. And so if you make the show look really good, all the musicians have got to do is put the face paint on and then kind of the stage craft does the rest, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. Here's the thing. I'm not a big fan of doing this, but I'm doing this. It's really easy to criticize people and say, I would have done this and that, whatever. But to be honest with that money, what could have been done is what Queen did.
00:12:33
Speaker
You know, there's a band, there's a tribute band, a tribute act. I don't know how it is. I've never seen it, but I've seen videos of the auditions and stuff called Queen Stravaganza. Is that it? Is that the name of it? I did not know this existed until just now. You can Google it if you want to. I think that's the name of it. But it's kind of a Queen tribute band that was sponsored by Queen. And as far as I'm concerned, they actually auditioned the musicians for it.
00:13:00
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. Extravaganza. Extravaganza. That's it. The interesting fact is, Queen still performs, right? So, but how cool is that? They're like, this is not a replacement, guys. This is like a tribute act.
00:13:17
Speaker
is sponsored by us. We've raised it. So like, it's like if you want to say so basically they are saying we chose the musicians. They probably do some appearances with them. I imagine they guessed at some shows. The thing is, this is the official Queen experience. If you cannot go to a Queen concert, right?
00:13:39
Speaker
And Queen tours are very few and far between. They don't tour like all year round now. Again, those guys are getting old. They don't need the money. They don't need to go through the hassle of being on the road with touring band. It's quite physically, mentally demanding. They don't need to. They do some special big concerts like the Queen Jubilee kind of stuff. That's the stuff they did. By the Queen, in that case, I mean Her Majesty, her late Queen Elizabeth.
00:14:08
Speaker
So basically, they can afford to say, look, this is the tribute act that we approve. That is the best thing you can have, the closest to the original. So why wouldn't KISS just copy the formula? And they could have launched that band whilst they were touring.
00:14:33
Speaker
so much better than avatars before before they actually say this is the last concert look we already have the other banturi go and check them out but now they're gonna have the same uh screens and lights and and and and you know fireworks everything you have at the kiss concert you're gonna have we just don't have the original musicians so you're paying for live music experience played by musicians
00:14:57
Speaker
that happen to not be the original band, which for me is totally fine. I'll give one interesting example. Yes, you know, one of my favorite prog bands, I don't think they pretty much have no one from the original lineup. We did
ABBA's Approach to Virtual Concerts
00:15:12
Speaker
our Yes episode. For any fans of Yes listening, we did an episode a while back. I think it's episode 18. So yeah, go check out our episode on that. They're just constantly recycling members, weren't they?
00:15:21
Speaker
Well, they change lineups every album, but it's like change one guy or two. That's fine. But now since John Anderson left the band to sing the original singer, they got a guy who used to do a tribute. Yes, kind of gig. So he's got the same sort of voice. You know, he's a he's a fan. It's a great thing. I don't know his name. Sorry for not doing my research on that. But it's it's
00:15:45
Speaker
I've watched a couple of videos, it's a great band. Unfortunately Chris Choir is dead, so there's no way you can have all the original musicians. And Steve Howe is in the band, but he joined the band on the second album, so he's not an original member.
00:16:00
Speaker
See, he's a guy who's been with the band since the second album, which was like decades ago, but he's not an original member. So you have a, yes, touring band that hasn't got a member of the original lineup, but it is the band. But to be fair to them, Rick Wakeman, when he was playing with the S,
00:16:18
Speaker
when they did a kind of reunion tour with eight members, like pretty much everyone who played in the band at that point in 1992, if I'm not mistaken. He said he wanted to see the band, he wanted the band to exist even after he died. And so I want this band to be like an orchestra, right? You know, you say, if you say the Boston Philharmonic or whatever,
00:16:45
Speaker
Well, they don't have any musicians from the original lineup. Obviously, they're not performing their own songs. We understand that. You know, a rock band, you know, they write the songs and they perform the songs live. But my point is, I believe if the lineup is changing, you know, gradually and those guys are
00:17:04
Speaker
now responsible for the legacy of that band but that's been passed on to them by an original member or by someone who replaced the original member, then yes it feels like an orchestra. They carry on with the work of an original ensemble that is not there anymore and I think that's totally fine. But what's the main point? What is the main point for you? What would make you say that this is a rock concert? What is that for you?
00:17:29
Speaker
Oh, that's, you know, man, I didn't even ask you to give me such a fantastic segue into the next band, but you've just done it. So thank you for that. Let's talk ABBA because ABBA have done the same thing, essentially, but completely differently. So here's what we know about the ABBA voyage. Again, go and check out the video before this section. ABBA performed their live show.
00:17:56
Speaker
every day for five weeks in a row and they captured it on 160 cameras.
00:18:04
Speaker
They did mocap, which means motion capture. So they dressed it up, if you've seen the video, they dressed all up in their suits with the little marbles on it to capture their movements. And so what they did, as I just said, is they performed for five weeks. They did a show every day for five weeks so that they were properly able to capture lip movement, arm gestures, waving hands in the air, the bass playing, you know, the precision of a hand moving up to the higher thing when he changes key or whatever.
00:18:34
Speaker
This to me is how to do it properly. Listen to this quote. So Ludwig Anderson, who was the producer of the show said, this is not a version of ABBA, this is ABBA. And I'm struggling to disagree because although you're not seeing them physically in front of you on the stage, you are seeing literally the next best thing.
00:19:00
Speaker
weeks of performances captured and animated around them and if you've seen the video guys you see the faces are fantastic they look so good and because ABBA are a throwback band we need to we need to sort of just understand that although they've got a new album how it was new a year or two ago
00:19:18
Speaker
They're a throwback band. We all think of them in the 70s and 80s with the Eurovision and all that stuff, don't we? So that's why that they put the faces of them back then on. Because when people think about Abba, you think about Dancing Queen, you think about Money, Money, Money, you think about all those hits whilst they were there. I think they've actually done this incredibly well because there is a certain element of, I don't know what to say, there's a certain element of,
00:19:47
Speaker
it not feeling right. Imagine you go and see ABBA and they're all in front of you and they're really old, their voices are probably a bit shot and I know that this is what a gig is and if you love a band you support them until they're gone, you stick with it. But ABBA are different, I just feel they're different because we all, as I said, we all know them as a throwback band to the 70s.
00:20:09
Speaker
And I think they've done a fantastic job. And I think they've made the right decision in doing what they've done and sort of pushing capture and then keeping their older faces. What do you think? Yeah, I think it was great, actually. I was talking to a friend of mine, Frank Cook, who's he basically has a workshop here in Denmark Street and is fixing amps for all the big acts in London. And he does some work for
00:20:37
Speaker
for the band, fixing the amps for the band that plays the ABBA concert. And so that's the point, there is a band, so there are musicians playing. And ABBA, they are the faces and the voices, but they had musicians as a backing band when they were touring. So that's the thing with pop music, it's not like you expect your rock band, your favorite band to be capable of delivering the gig without any help. Sometimes fans are like,
00:21:04
Speaker
although we have Pink Floyd and other bands have played with like loads of added musicians in the band but you know ABBA is a show where you have the main musicians or singer songwriters and you have a backing band providing that sound and now that's what's going on you have the avatars of ABBA but actually as I said they were
00:21:31
Speaker
They recorded them doing all of those. Yeah, motion capture. Exactly. And you have a band like they used to have when they were playing live, which is the same sort of experience you have in the Broadway musical shows in New York or the West End shows in London. So you have a band or an orchestra, a band and orchestra, and you have the
00:21:51
Speaker
uh uh the the theater show happening in front of you but in that case you don't have the actress you just have the avatars i think it's fine uh there is there's something that makes it easier for them as well as i said uh people want to see their younger faces people want to see a a
00:22:09
Speaker
kind of, they wanted they wanted a trip back to the past, they don't want to see current ABBA, they want to see that thing. And it's pop music. And it's, and I think I haven't been there. Well, the only thing is they did proper research, they invested a lot of money, I think they still kind of recovering the money that was invested. And it's like, millions and millions of pounds invested in technology and structure. And they have their own arena, the ABBA arena.
00:22:37
Speaker
that hosts this show only and it's like insane. So one thing about it, it's a proper experience that was developed in a certain way. So the funny thing for me is I would say that considering the band, considering all the process they've been to to put this show together, I'm gonna get canceled right now. ABBA, you know, the ABBA Voyage, that's the name? Yeah, ABBA Voyage, yep. Yeah, it's ABBA Voyage is
00:23:06
Speaker
more, it's closer to a live rock gig than the Kiss avatar that was being shown to the audience after the last gig. It's much more of a rock concert, although it's pop music, than what Kiss is trying to do.
00:23:24
Speaker
If you're going to get cancelled for that, then cancel me too, because I completely agree. I felt ABBA is more rock and roll than KISS. That's the title. That's how we get the clicks at this moment in time. So no one's going to mention that I'm saying about this, but that's it. I think if you just visually look at the differences between the KISS video and the ABBA video,
00:23:51
Speaker
The KISS one, as I said, it just looks like a video game. I don't think it looks good. Whereas the ABBA one, it looks like them. And why? Because I said it two or three times five minutes ago, they motion captured the band performing the gigs until they had every detail they could use. It doesn't mean that KISS is not going to do that. They might do it. Well, this is the thing. We still don't have any news about KISS' experience and what it's going to
00:24:20
Speaker
how and if it's going to expand. All we're doing is guessing you and me and we've seen these avatars and they might actually do what Abba did. I wouldn't be surprised if they did because Abba did it so well but at the moment all we know is that we're getting avatars.
00:24:34
Speaker
Interesting. Interesting thing here is George Lucas's company ILM. He's a they did both the both the kiss avatars and the ABBA voyage they worked on. All right. Yeah, it's really interesting. So okay, so let's move away unless you have anything else to say. No, no, by the things. And let's go to
00:24:56
Speaker
I want to say more realistic things in terms of like science and light and projections and stuff. Let's talk about holograms. Yeah. So, do you want to start, Jamie, say kick us off? The hologram, I just, the one that comes to my mind is the Ronnie James Dio gig. So if you can talk about that one. It's, when did that happen? Was just a one-off show? I don't remember. 2018-ish. I've seen it at the time.
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah, around late 2000. Yeah, 2018 ish. Let me find out. Yeah, it was probably after his death, I assume, or he was just 20 2019. Yeah, so it was going around. Yeah, so his band or, you know, some of the musicians used to talk with him played live. And that's not a screen as a hologram. So you have deal as a hologram. Um,
00:25:51
Speaker
I'll say what I got from what I could kind of, what I felt about that when I watched it. I was like, you know what, I'm really,
00:26:02
Speaker
Because my approach to anything artistic is like, I don't have to like this. I don't mind that something that I don't like exists. If I don't like it, I'm not going to consume it. And that's all fine for me. I actually think people should try every possibility. And they did that. And it's kind of amazing that they've done it. But my feeling watching that was like the band looks really awkward.
00:26:29
Speaker
They look like I kind of need the job, but it's uncomfortable. It's like I'm performing with the ghost of the guy who used to hire me to do this gig. And it's so awkward when you look at them and Kiska's like Dio was interacting with the band. You see his hologram pointing at the bass player like it's so
00:26:51
Speaker
I don't know. It's kind of creepy. It is unusual. Let me tell you what his wife said about it. So Wendy Dio after the tour, so after they did this hologram tour, she said, some loved it, some hated it. I don't want to do it again. I want the real Ronnie. And what she means by that is the next time, if she does this, they're just going to like your picture. They're just going to have a screen.
00:27:15
Speaker
They're just going to have a screen and play old footage of Dio on it. Now, what I think they'll do is they'll take, let's say Dio's doing, I don't know, Stargazer from the Rainbow days. They'll find footage of him singing that with Rainbow and then they'll make sure that what they'll do is they'll do it so that the band are playing in time with that gig.
00:27:38
Speaker
if that makes sense, so that you still look like D is performing it, it will be his voice and we know from our Beatles episode that we can now split individual strands of vocals. Also there's a different thing, most of the, if you're using like the studio versions of songs that are the record labels, they have the tracks, the separate tracks anyways. It stems, yeah. They have the tracks so they can do it. It's not, nowadays it's not like
00:28:05
Speaker
overcomplicated to actually get that thing together like a screen synced with the band. Everyone's playing with click tracks like Metronome. They can follow the beat and play in sync with the pre-recorded vocals and the video. And what you have here on my screen is Elvis. And there's a few versions of these.
00:28:30
Speaker
kind of more recent Elvis concerts with basically they have that there was an orchestra one which is this which I find quite cool is just a screen you have his original gig at the back and you have a live orchestra on top of it there was one that they took I think was the gig he did in Hawaii or Vegas I actually don't remember there's one that they have his band or
00:28:53
Speaker
quite a lot of the musicians who used to play with them, playing live the same, because they have high quality audio and video from a gig, and they have the footage of that gig, the entire gig on screen, and Elvis's band playing live on top of that. So a screen, I think, you know what, I've seen quite a lot of those in London, I've seen the posters, didn't have time to go to any of those things. When they have a movie, like The Godfather, like Lord of the Rings, you like that one, don't you?
00:29:23
Speaker
They have those movies, but the soundtrack is performed live by an orchestra. I went and saw The Lord of the Rings one two years ago, yes. So for me that's like, it is basically a movie experience.
00:29:39
Speaker
with live music. It's not mainly live music. That's a great point, bro, because I'd never thought about that before. Because the emphasis is always on the artist, isn't it? You know, they say, OK, it's a Dio hologram. You're going to a Dio gig. Asterisk, though, little asterisk next to it. Dio will not be there, obviously. Yeah, they still treat it as a concert. Whereas I like what you're saying, where it's kind of a bit more like, actually, this is that this is a movie. This is a show.
00:30:07
Speaker
you're gonna go watch, but there's gonna be a little caveat and that's there's live music. So, you know, that's a really interesting thing. Yeah, it's like, you know, like, all right, would you like to see a whole Elvis concert on a big screen? Kind of cool, but yeah, we're gonna have a live band, his band. Yeah. Cool. Makes a difference. Now, when you put the hologram, I think they did an Elvis with hologram as well. When you have the hologram for me, do you know what my point is? It looks like a ghost.
00:30:35
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it's bizarre about it, because it's not too deep, like a scream. A scream, you know, it's not the real deal. It's something that has been recorded. Hologram is trying really hard to fake the presence of that person. And it moves and it walks around the stage as a real person, but you know it's not. I don't like that.
00:31:00
Speaker
It's really interesting you say that, and this actually brings us nicely into the next gentleman we're going to talk about, which is Frank Zappa, because the Frank Zappa show was called The Bizarre World of Frank Zappa, and this was the same thing as the Dio one.
Frank Zappa's Live Performance Innovations
00:31:12
Speaker
But Frank Zappa always had big bands, you know, he'd have anywhere between sort of five and 20 people in his band because his music was so intricate, some really long pieces, it needed all the instruments. So he did the same thing, he got some of his old band members, not he obviously,
00:31:30
Speaker
they got some of the old band members and they got him to play with a hologram of Zappa in the middle. And the part of me that was really excited about that when they announced this was that Zappa died four years before I was born. And I slowly and gradually really got into Frank Zappa and his music. And I would have given anything to be able to see him perform live.
00:31:59
Speaker
And I think, I remember when this news came out, I said, this might be my chance. And then, the more I thought about it, and the more that I went, you know how much Zapper I listened to, the more I went and listened to albums, and especially live albums, because Zapper and the Zapper estate have released loads of live music. You start to notice certain things about the character of this man, like,
00:32:25
Speaker
each show that he did on specific tours, that him and the band would just pick a stupid random word. And that random word would become the joke of the day. So instead of, let's say the word was anything, bottle, okay?
00:32:42
Speaker
That night, wherever the band could fit the word bottle into a lyric, they would. So he's got a song called Bobby Brown. And instead of one night, he'd go, hey there, people, I'm Bobby Brown. Live, it would be, hey there, people, I'm bottle Brown. It's stupid. But Frank Zappa said, you know, I just like keeping things fresh and exciting when I'm on stage. We do world tours that last months and months. We've got to keep it fresh. You're not going to get that.
00:33:07
Speaker
Are you? You're not going to get that with a hologram experience. You're not going to get that authenticity. And just one other thing to add. He was great at improvising with his guitars. That's exactly what I was going to say. I've got my notes here. The real Frank Zappa has said, and I suppose he's proven, that he would never play the same solo twice. Yeah. Night after night.
00:33:30
Speaker
10, 12 nights in a row, you're seeing the same zapper as a hologram. Moving in the same way. In the same way, playing the same solo. Well, it will be. It will just be a cut and paste. And this is where I ask myself, with everything I've just said, would I attend that concert?
00:33:47
Speaker
because on one hand, I get to experience with his 10 musicians that were toured with him in the 80s on stage in front of me, I get to experience what it might have been like seeing all these people on stage playing these intricate Zappa songs. Then on the other side, I know 100% I was watching a hologram, not only obviously, because it's been advertised to me, but that's just, they've just done a solo from the album there. Zappa wouldn't have done that. Didn't his son do like a,
00:34:17
Speaker
like a tribute act or something like that. Yeah, so I've seen them a few times. The son's called Dweezil Zappa.
00:34:23
Speaker
And his band is brilliant. The band's called Zappa Play Zappa because Dweezel Zappa is Frank Zappa. So isn't that again, as I said, like Queen Extravaganza, isn't that a clever use of the brand? You have a Zappa, not the Zappa, but you have a Zappa on stage playing Zappa. That's a great point, I forgot about that. You use the brand in the club. My point is,
00:34:49
Speaker
So you've been to that game, you see. I've seen Zappa play Zappa a few times, yeah. So, were you disappointed that Zappa wasn't there? No, because you knew he wasn't, and no one is trying to fake him on stage. No one is trying to put them to be him. They put a screen down, so every of the few spots that Zappa would sing in, just like behind you in your picture, and Zappa was on the screen. But not with his voice.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yes, once or twice. They actually hired a guy who sounds like Frank Zappa and he sang, let's say, I don't know, 90% of the songs he sang, but when it was a crowd favorite or one that had a funny vocal thing that only Zappa could do or that Zappa
00:35:36
Speaker
came up with they'd get him on the screen and then just for one song he'd kind of sing like that and it would just be Zappa's vocals from the screen the rest of the band underneath but then like I said the other 15-20 songs of the set would be a guy who sounded like Zappa in the band singing.
00:35:54
Speaker
makes sense yeah um yeah so so so basically right um in that case you have his band and they're not feeling awkward about the hologram on stage with them are you talking about zapper plays zapper or we yeah yeah zapper plays zapper they're not feeling awkward because like this is just a gig as they played before you know and um you can actually do that as a tribute to to
00:36:19
Speaker
to the artists he worked with, you know, for those positions, like, okay, we're here, we're performing his music, we've done this a million times, and it's super cool, he's with us, but it's a live band, everyone's playing live. And I think that that's what I insist, like, when I was younger, I used to think that's kind of weird, that people go to DJ concerts, it's like, I mean, like, when you go to a venue, there's something about when people go and see a,
00:36:51
Speaker
You could call it like a rave.
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah, well, tell a couple of the famous ones, Fat Boy Slim, is that their name? Oh, yeah. Yes, I see. Fat Boy Slim, you know, bands like The Prodigy. What's the other ones? I'm like, I have no knowledge about that kind of stuff. So that's what I'm saying. Before I get cancelled, he'd say I was wrong with The Prodigy. I've seen The Prodigy live and they are a band. They're not just a DJ. So I can cancel me. Yeah. So you have, you know, people would literally pay a lot of money on a ticket to see a guy with a laptop.
00:37:22
Speaker
Pressing buttons, yeah. Pressing play. And what else does it do? Okay, they do some effects and stuff. Is your opinion still the same? My point is I don't find it exciting enough to go there and see, but here's what justifies that. Those guys didn't record with bands most of the time.
00:37:43
Speaker
They're not musicians, they're DJs. So what they do is like, this is what I did at home or at the studio. It's me on a laptop, programming loops and creating beats and songs. So people pay to see that person on stage doing what they originally did. It makes sense. Do you understand that? It's not something that I find exciting because I like musicians playing instruments. That's what I like.
00:38:14
Speaker
doesn't it make sense that's what that guy originally did like when you go and see Paul McCartney and he's playing Hey Jude on the piano he probably wrote that song on the piano that that's like the original experience he was there at his home playing the piano oh came up with a melody played the song and now he's live on stage with the band doing that a DJ is not in a garage with his band mates strumming their guitars he's on his computer writing music
00:38:39
Speaker
So it makes sense for them to do that on stage because basically you're paying to see the person you like. I like this guy's music, I want to see him live. And the other thing about DJs is that when it's just one of them, they've got control over
00:38:58
Speaker
the entirety of the song. And that's what I actually, I commend on that because I was like you, you know, three, four, five years ago, I would have been this, I was just like, why are people paying to go and see someone on a laptop, you know? But then very soon, I don't actually listen to this music at all, but I've seen some clips and there's jokes in TV shows like Peep Show when they're talking about DJ. You've seen Peep Show, isn't it? Where it's like, what's the DJ doing? He's bringing it up.
00:39:26
Speaker
it down you know when they're really drunk in the club.
00:39:30
Speaker
But the control the DJs have over it, they have the audience in the palm of their hands because you can let a beat sit there. And right in front of you are all the audience and you can see how much they're jumping about and dancing or whatever, or they might be a bit timid. You can then adapt the music completely to change the audience. If you think the audience are getting a bit bored of a beat, you bring in another layer, you bring in some extra snare or whatever, and then you bring it up and up and up, and then you hit the drop.
00:40:00
Speaker
like drop the bass, boom, boom, boom, you know, and then you can see the audience jumping in front of you. I think it's very cool. I think it's quite a talent. What I'm saying is, yeah, I have no problems with that because it's not the kind of music I listen to. I don't hate the things I don't listen to. You get it? So like some people are like, oh, this is this is really bad. I don't like it. So it's just not something that brings any sort of excitement to me. So I don't go. I wouldn't go to a DJ concert. I don't mind being in a nightclub, but there's a
00:40:29
Speaker
as you're in a club and there is a DJ. Yeah. Right. So that's fine. It's a it's it's a venue there.
00:40:37
Speaker
you know, with your friends, you know, having a drink or eating some food, whatever, and there's a DJ. It's part of the experience, it's all cool. I wouldn't go to see a DJ as a gig or as this guy, you know, because it's not my thing. But as I said, it is the original experience of that kind of music. This is, well, this is a rock podcast. So when we're talking about rock music, what is rock music, like live rock music? I'm one of those who believe
00:41:07
Speaker
that you shouldn't, if you can't avoid backing tracks, you know, playbacks and other stuff, you just should, just get rid of that. You don't see an orchestra where you say, oh, you know, there's a few violins that are being pre-recorded. That's a really lazy approach. I really don't like that. So this is a band on stage playing their instruments. If you want to see a DJ, go and see a DJ.
00:41:39
Speaker
So moving on, but sticking with that theme, how did you feel about the 2-pack hologram? Because 2-pack as a rapper would rap over beats. I felt that the 2-pack and Snoop Dogg footage
00:41:56
Speaker
I believe that was actually the first one chronologically. I think Tupac did it first, then Zappa, and then Dio, I think, in terms of when the holograms came out.
Tupac's Hologram and Immersive Experiences
00:42:06
Speaker
But the Tupac one, I found that to be the most immersive one, because as you mentioned- There was an interaction with the person, isn't it? Well, you're right. But in terms of the band, as you said with Dio, you've got Dio pointing at that band member and the band members pretending to see Dio, and it looked a bit awkward. But with Tupac,
00:42:25
Speaker
there obviously isn't a band because he will rap over beats and samples and electronic stuff or whatever.
00:42:32
Speaker
I just felt a bit more immersed in it. What did you think of that one? I don't have a question before I answer to this, because like, was that a full concert or just like... It was an award show. Right. If I'm not mistaken. Is that... Oh, no, no, no, it was a festival, Coachella 2012. But he was there for the whole gig. It was his... Well, do you know what? It was a...
00:43:03
Speaker
Snoop Dogg and Tupac perform with Dr. Dre, Eminem, 50 Cent, all these rappers. So all these guys were there doing a full gig. And they had this as kind of a, as a tribute to their friend. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out- That's how I see it. I think that was the case. I don't know if it was a Tupac show with friends or if it was a general rap concert. But yeah, tell me your opinion. I'll do a little bit of research while I should talk about it. But what did you think of that one?
00:43:30
Speaker
Because I initially thought that was a one-off. So it's an interesting one, again. I don't know what you think about it. It's an interesting one. The headline is with Dr. Dre and Sloopdog. So that two-pack hologram must have been a special one-off. What I understood was like a Snoopdog gig, the other guy's gig. And they had him as a guest. Or what I would say is like, OK, here's us using top technology.
00:43:59
Speaker
to pay a tribute to one of our friends that everyone loves and everyone that goes on there. I think that's cool. It is different, isn't it? It's a different dynamic when you bring the hologram in for one show and say, or for one song and say, like you just said, this is our friend, no longer with us. When you build a whole gig on it, just feels like it falls a little bit flat, don't you think? It does. It's just,
00:44:25
Speaker
I'm gonna, all right, this sounds a bit old school, but you know when you go to like McDonald's and you go on the screen and you pick your orders, that's it, and then you get a number and the person there just hands it to you and that's it. And then you go to a coffee shop in a small town and
00:44:46
Speaker
And then you talk to the lady behind the counter and you ask the question about how's your day kind of stuff. And then someone does a joke, you've seen that person before and they give you your, you know. And you watch your coffee be made behind him. It's like everything has its place. You know, if I'm in a hurry, I'll go to make these and I'm fine with that.
00:45:08
Speaker
but I'm a big fan of real human experiences. And I believe like electronic music, DJ music and all this stuff originally lacks that human element, but it's not, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. It's just, it's digital by nature.
00:45:31
Speaker
whilst a rock concert for me is that thing. It's like you want to see real people on stage playing music. And if one of them is a hologram by the artist of people, I don't know. I would have, would you feel comfortable as a musician if you're on stage performing and there's like a robot or hologram by your side. It's like, yeah, but. I think you're just going back to what you were saying about it's like playing a theater show.
00:46:02
Speaker
Well, actually, no, no, it isn't because you're right. The theatre show that has actual actors on it. It's odd. It is very odd. I couldn't envision doing it for too long. The thing is, how did the audience react? I wonder, I mean, how successful are those shows? None of them have carried on, put it that way. The Zappa ones hasn't carried on. Wendy Dio ended the Dio one. She said she didn't like it.
00:46:28
Speaker
Um, the two pack thing seems like a one off ABBA voyage. I think that's probably one we'll come back around. But the ABBA one is it's, it's endless. It's going to be there to the end of that. Okay. Because there's a thing as someone who lives in London, I've got to say this. Uh, if you have two people and a sound system in a public place in London,
00:46:53
Speaker
some ABBA song was going to come out of it. It's a phenomenon. It's a thing that happens. The other day was in Soho Square. It's chilling. Have a break between a lesson and another. I'm going to grab a coffee, sit on a bench, and just enjoy the day. Look at the sky. And then some random dude comes with this big sound system with lights and stuff and starts playing Dancing Queen. And out of the blue, everyone
00:47:21
Speaker
the square, everyone is there dancing and singing along, so it's something, you know. So the ABBA concert, the hologram ABBA thing, that's going to last until the end of times. It's going to end, like the world's going to end. But the ABBA stadium will still be there.
00:47:44
Speaker
that thing, the Abba Arena will be there and they're going to be performing to no one. But that's, you know, if, you know, London can't exist without Abba, that's the connected somehow. But anyway, having said that. Yeah, sorry. No, I think it's it's again, there was a lot of planning to that. And that's why it will survive. And also, it's not rock music. So rock, I think rock fans, we've we say like us like rock fans, we're famous for
00:48:13
Speaker
being quite demanding, aren't we? We won the real deal. Yeah. Anyway. What I was going to go on to next was kind of linked to Two Pack because obviously they had the Snoop, you know, he had the Snoop Dogg and Dr Dre with Two Pack, the hologram coming on. Now this takes me to one of my favourite bands actually, a band called Gorillaz.
00:48:35
Speaker
who, it's almost like it's gone the other way around, isn't it? Because nowadays, if you go and see gorillas, you know who you're seeing. But before, people did not know that the singer of Blur made his own band with an animating artist and produced four unusual characters who released this music. That was very young. It does sound a lot like Blur, though, in my opinion, his voice. His voice, definitely. But I don't know what happened when it came out, as in I was
00:49:03
Speaker
I was 10 years old when Demon Days came out. I'm old enough to remember that. So tell me the reaction. Did people know immediately it was Damon Orban? I think some people guessed. I have heard some of my friends say, oh, it's him. And I can recognize the voice. Because if you're a big fan, you kind of recognize the way the guy sings, even if you add shitloads of effects. But I didn't know. I'm not a Blur fan, so I wasn't familiar with that. And, you know, the
00:49:32
Speaker
the regular kind of music fan, people who were watching MTV at the time, you want to see what's coming up. And there's this band and someone said, oh, you know, this is a real band, but they have these avatars. I think that was quite the thing for that time. It was
00:49:48
Speaker
impressive and it's interesting and the music is a mix between rock music and electronic. So it is kind of cool and they kept the secret for a while until they revealed these are the guys playing and I think I liked it. But you know a funny thing, Paul Simonon from The Clash plays bass for Gorillaz.
00:50:12
Speaker
But if you look at the video that I put the Clint Eastwood live at the Brits. That's really cool because you've got the virtual band on the screen, and then guest rappers coming out. There's another show, it's called.
00:50:28
Speaker
Demon Days live in Manchester, I think, and they play the album in full. The band are on the stage, but for the, I don't know if it's the entire show or not, they're silhouettes. So they're just shadows. So you can see Damon Orban sitting at the piano and the keyboard playing the songs, and you know it's him, obviously, but you never see the light on him because they just make it a shadow for the whole gig and the rest of them, the back of the musicians as well. And I think that's really cool because for me, that is the perfect blend
00:50:58
Speaker
of all of this stuff we've been talking about. You've got the original band members, the original songwriters, on stage, playing the music live, but silhouetted, blacked out, if you like, so that, you know, although we know who it is, we still think it's a virtual show. And on the screen behind them, you've got all the animations and the animated band playing the music or, you know, appearing to play the music.
00:51:24
Speaker
I think it's great. And I really do love gorillas. They're one of my favorite bands. Very good stuff. I think that the fact that they, you know, they came up with those avatars, those characters, but I think there was a plan from the beginning to reveal who is behind
Animated Bands and Holograms: Gorillaz and Michael Jackson
00:51:40
Speaker
it. Yeah, you have to think. Yeah. And also, I think they never actually had the gig without the musicians playing. Right. They never had. As far as I know. Yeah. Yeah. They always there behind the screen or somewhere playing the music.
00:51:54
Speaker
Uh, and also, uh, they didn't, that's, that's an important thing of really relevant fact. They didn't exist as a band before. It's not like this is a real band that now has been like kiss. Now we've just replaced him then by avatars. They started as avatars. It's almost like they started as avatars and then they came into the real world. It's the reverse, isn't it? Yeah. And it's okay. That is unique. Uh, nothing like that happened before.
00:52:24
Speaker
in the history of music and what a great invention, let's put it like that. Yeah, so- The only other example I had to talk about was a Michael Jackson hologram, which actually the more I read into it, I found out the more disappointing it was, because it was an impersonator.
00:52:43
Speaker
They got up an actor to play him and then hologrammed him onto the stage or something. So it's kind of like, it just feels like it wasn't really much effort put into that. So they're really- A hologram of- An impersonator. An impersonator. How far from the real thing, you are just getting impersonator live at least. Exactly. I just didn't get that sometimes, but they might have adapted it. Maybe I only saw a bit of it. But just to finish off then,
00:53:10
Speaker
A couple of quotes that I thought was really interesting and relevant to this. So David Draymond, the singer from the heavy metal band called Disturbed, when he spoke about the DO hologram, he had this to say, it isn't letting the dead be dead. And I also read, I think it was the, maybe it was the Zappa article, the Zappa hologram article on Forbes.
00:53:36
Speaker
This quote, being dead is no longer an impediment to touring. It feels really clever, funny on that one. But there you go, two quotes that stuck out to me most when doing my research. And I thought the David Draymond one was interesting. Do we need to just take a step back and say, listen, Ronnie James Dio is dead. Frank Zappa is dead. Tupac is dead. That's enough. They did what they did and they gave us all of the fantastic
00:54:05
Speaker
talent and music that we got from them and they'll be remembered for that. Shall we just leave it? What do you think about that? I'm with you on that one. It's not me necessarily, it's the guy, but you agree with that quote. Yeah, but I agree with that quote and I imagine you're saying this because you like the quote. Do you know what? I haven't thought about it enough to make an opinion, but I just found it interesting. It's stuck out to me. It isn't letting the dead be dead. That's a big statement.
00:54:34
Speaker
It is in a certain way. It's kind of true because what I'm saying is I don't mind watching a DVD or for performance that happened 40 years ago, 50 years ago, 30 years ago. It doesn't matter. You know, we do that all the time. DVDs of the bands we liked when I first got into Floyd and Zeppelin, those guys were not around.
00:54:59
Speaker
So I was watching the DVDs, but I know that's footage of the real thing. And I'm watching all my screen at home. I wouldn't like to go to a gig and see, you know, I like, I like three different bands. I like, I don't mind people impersonating the acts live on stage and doing it. That's my thing. But ultimately, what matters is if the audience rejects what you're offering, there's no point in doing it. So that's why some of those shows
00:55:29
Speaker
are so awkward that they couldn't carry on with it. So in the end of the day, are there enough people out there really
00:55:43
Speaker
asking for more of this, if that exists. Also, we approached like a million different versions of this kind of artificial and real performance mixed together
Future of Hologram Shows and Audience Reactions
00:55:58
Speaker
in different ways. So there's lots of ways of doing it. And I think some of those ways are going to survive. I'll definitely go and see this
00:56:08
Speaker
a video of Elvis and an orchestra playing live. I don't know if I would like to see a video game of Kiss on the screen unless they get their shit together and put a good show with musicians. I don't think I would go and see it. So that's my opinion anyway. So it's just an opinion.
00:56:23
Speaker
You really you really hit home to me when you said and what you said is so obvious like I don't know why I didn't think about it but when you said, we can watch DVDs of them. It then just immediately sprung a question in my mind, well, why would I go.
00:56:39
Speaker
last night my dad came round and we just chatted and hung out and watched, had some dinner and we watched the, do you remember the Led Zeppelin DVD you and me watched when we were on tour in Brazil? Do you remember that night we got really drunk at the party and just put Zeppelin on. Have we? I don't even remember. And we put that Zeppelin thing on and we were up until like five in the morning weren't we just with Zeppelin on it was amazing and I just remember
00:57:06
Speaker
specifically the John Bonham feels at the end of Cashmere. I remember you and me, we were just there like, what the fuck is going on? But why would I go and watch? Zeppelin's a bad example because of. There's no there's no fake version of it, but why would I go and watch on Bonham? Why would I do that? The few of them are alive. Yeah.
00:57:27
Speaker
But why would I do that when I can just put on a DVD and see how they all worked together? Let's use Zappa. Why would I go and see Zappa's musicians who, to be fair to them and to be honest, aren't the most important thing? Why would I see them play Zappa's music with a pre-recorded footage of Zappa, them pretending they're interacting with Zappa when I could just put on a DVD and see Zappa and his band interacting back in the 80s?
00:57:55
Speaker
my opinion has quite has actually changed through this episode bro in this last hour because i was very much like oh do you know what i consider that i might go and pay money for it and now i'm looking at it and i'm thinking what would i go and see would i go and see two-pack no would i go and see gorillas a hundred percent would i see kiss no dio no jackson no zapper
00:58:18
Speaker
I'm on the fence because I love Zappa so much, but I think ultimately, if I was looking at seven people, I'd be like, no. But if you had the opportunity, if you had the choice between Zappa hologram show and Zappa plays Zappa again, would you go to see Zappa plays Zappa again? I think I would go to that one instead of the hologram. That's really interesting. And yes, I think I'd agree with you. It's funny that you mentioned Zappa Link. Think about this, right?
00:58:46
Speaker
In 2007 they got together again and performed one gig and I love to see Jason Bonham playing a full concert with them because he played, you know, feel like short.
00:58:56
Speaker
gigs with them, but not like a whole concert like that. And I think his performance is brilliant, it's beautiful. Some people might not like it. Oh, it's not his dad. Yeah, but this is a proud son paying a tribute to his dad with one of the greatest bands in the world. It was the most appropriate personnel fill-in ever, wasn't it? Yeah, you can't think of a better musician for that job.
00:59:20
Speaker
Imagine it wasn't that, imagine saying, we're not gonna have Jason Bonham, we're gonna have a hologram of John Bonham and his pre-recorded front tracks. That would be awful. Just say. And they didn't do that. They had a real musician playing music on stage, which is the kind of thing I wanna go and see. Again, and I think there's a lot of people who don't like some of those hologram stuff, and that's why they're not profitable, maybe.
00:59:48
Speaker
I get whether you like the music or not, just guess or no. Would you go and see the two pack hologram? Um, if it was just him, like I wouldn't, if it's like just no dog gig and then you have him as a guest. Yeah, fine. Would you go and see gorillas? Sure. Would you go to the kiss virtual show? No fucking way. DO hologram? No fucking way. Zappa hologram? Nah. ABBA?
01:00:17
Speaker
Yeah, I would. I knew that. Yeah, I'd go forever as well. See, and I like Zappa. OK, for the record, I must say I like Zappa more than Abba. When the camera is off, I might say something else. But for the record, I like Zappa more than Abba, but I wouldn't like to see that show, don't I? Yeah, I think the cynic in me says that it's a money-make machine, isn't it? It enables bands like Kiss to just put something out there to go and get a shitload of money.
01:00:44
Speaker
And, you know, it's still going to cost, it's still going to be expensive. I don't imagine a ticket to this show is going to be 20 quid anymore. I think it will still be upwards of 50. That's the cynic in me. But the positive sides, here's a few things I thought of. Fans in hard to reach countries might, I don't know how, because obviously you've still got all the logistics of moving a show around, but I don't know. I just felt that this would benefit people in countries that
01:01:13
Speaker
the actual musicians wouldn't go to. I'd rather have a really cool sound experience with lights and stuff on the screen. I don't like the whole room. Let's forget that then. Cool. Do you have anything else to say, bro? I think we've hit an hour. Great discussion. I really enjoyed that. Do you have anything else to add? No, I just want to say that I enjoyed my cider and I enjoyed the conversation.
01:01:40
Speaker
Yeah, thanks to everyone who has been listening to this and give us your opinion about it. Would you go to any of those concerts? Yeah, whether you're listening, whether you're watching on YouTube or listening, find a way to get in contact with us and tell us what you think about this. We'd really love to know what the consensus is. I suppose when this episode comes out, I'll do some stories on my Instagram and find out what people's opinions are.
01:02:04
Speaker
But that's it at the end of another episode. So once again, thank you for joining myself and Felipe on the Long Live Rock and Roll podcast. We say it every week, but I'm going to say it again. Please do what you can to help us. Any little interaction helps us so much. Like a post, share a post, subscribe to the channel, like the YouTube video. If you're on a podcast thing, give us a rating. Any little thing that just takes 10 to 30 seconds of your time is the world of difference for us. And it really helps. We're an independent podcast.
01:02:31
Speaker
and we do it because we absolutely love talking about music and we love that you guys love it as well because you're tuning in every week to listen back again and we want to keep doing it as long as possible so thank you very much for joining us. Always an enjoyable experience and please keep supporting us because we're kind of raising money to do the hologram version of this show so we don't need to work.
01:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, we've done the show for two years. We can't be fucked anymore. There's enough information out there for AI to recreate our voices and faces. I was wondering where you were going with that, where you were like, we're raising money. I'm obviously going to say to get holograms of us. Anyway, guys, just remember, don't do anything I wouldn't do. As usual, guys, take care and long live.
01:03:22
Speaker
real rock n' roll, not virtual rock n' roll, right? Take care, guys. Bye-bye.