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REPORT: Seattle Sounders transferring Danny Leyva to Necaxa!
792 Plays2 days ago
A big-time move appears to be taking place in Sounders-land, with Cesar Luis Merlo reporting the Seattle Sounders have reached an agreement with LIGA MX's Necaxa on a transfer for homegrown midfielder Danny Leyva. We'll break down the implications of the move on Seattle's offseason, then dive into some more Sounders and MLS Cup 2025 preview coverage.
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Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Platform Engagement
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Lobbing Scorchers was previously recorded and streamed live on YouTube.com slash at Lobbing Scorchers. If you want to listen or catch these episodes live, see the video, and see all the rest of our content, go to YouTube.com slash at Lobbing Scorchers or LobbingScorchers.com slash YouTube.
00:00:22
Speaker
Well sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Why the scorcher today? Well it's gonna be scorcher.
00:00:44
Speaker
Good evening, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Lobbing Scorchers Under the Lights. Going to be hanging out tonight, talking some Seattle Sounders and Major League Soccer, talking a little more and
Danny Leyva's Transfer News
00:00:56
Speaker
MLS Cup. We got some big news in Seattle Sounders land, as you might have seen. Danny Leyva, reportedly.
00:01:02
Speaker
getting transferred to Nkaksa, Liga Emekis. We're going to go over that report, going to react to that. ah The first kind shoe to drop, I guess, in the Seattle Sounders offseason and kind of an unexpected one. If you'd asked me before the offseason started who was going to be on the move, I don't know if I would have said Danny Leyva. In fact, a lot of the talk with Danny Leyva was a that he was in line to see an increase in minutes next year. So we're going to talk about the implications that's going to have on the roster. that it might have on Obed Vargas, all that good stuff.
00:01:36
Speaker
ah Dip a little bit back into the Moose discourse. I think Nico and I were going back and forth on that on ah on kickoff on Monday. And, you know, i took some ah I took some heat, took some negative feedback on the take, which I expected.
Addressing Feedback and Product Update
00:01:50
Speaker
I knew that was coming. ah But, you know, i did I did want to respond to a couple of things, but set the record straight. on the moose discourse a little bit. We'll get to that later.
00:02:03
Speaker
i also want to show you guys a ah ah really funny clip of Wilfred Nancy that we posted Last season, that is now going viral in ah in Scotland.
00:02:14
Speaker
So we're going to have some fun with that later. ah Before we get into it, everyone, please like the video, sub to the channel, ah like, comment, subscribe, rate five stars, follow us on Instagram, follow us on TikTok. And ah exciting news ah I don't know if if i'm ah I'm supposed to say it yet. It might be confidential. But ah we're making it. There's another batch of the Lobby Scorchers hot sauce on the way. We just talked to Jessica from Hacks and Ferments.
00:02:46
Speaker
And she said, ah you all you all killed it. you we They sold it out. They pretty much sold it out. I think it's it's either sold out or almost sold out. So another batch is coming. That'll be available lobbanscorschers.com slash sauce. And ah if you haven't got the hot sauce yet, get the hot sauce.
00:03:04
Speaker
It's really good. ah As always, if you have questions, thoughts, observations, agendas, grievances, go ahead, drop them in the chat and get to as many as I can. I see a couple of you already cooking in the chat.
MLS Cup Excitement and Storylines
00:03:18
Speaker
Thank you all for for tuning into the December 4th under the lights. It's a little bit of a of a dead zone for the Seattle Sounders with them, not in mls cup this year we do have this uh danny leva news and mls cup coming up on saturday which uh we'll talk about a little more later nico and i riffed on mls cup a long time on monday but you know the game's almost here and uh then the season's really over but i do think this is a uh
00:03:49
Speaker
This is a good and MLS Cup, at least from ah from a neutral's perspective. I mean, you got the star power. ah You've got the Messi versus Moeller storyline.
00:04:00
Speaker
You got an Inter-Miami team that is really... They're playing they're playing for their... ah They're playing for their legacies, their reputations. Lionel Messi's legacy is on the line in this game.
00:04:14
Speaker
ah But no, I mean, the I think the... ultimate success of the inner Miami project could be on the line. If they lose this game, it's going hard for them to, uh, to really say they are who they have been trying to be or say they are.
00:04:30
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, uh, Joey says definitely rooting for the white caps. I think everyone is like, Inter-Miami, obviously, you know, I'm going to root against Spitboy at any in any possible turn.
00:04:50
Speaker
You got Spitboy, you got Face Puncher Boy. Average age, 48.5 between them. Loose cannons. I don't really want to see them win and MLS Cup. But I also think this Whitecaps team, man, they are... a They're really good, but then you also have the backdrop of everything they're dealing with back in Vancouver right now as far as ah Don Garber gave his State of the League address earlier today down at MLS Cup.
00:05:19
Speaker
And he had some quote to the effect of like the Vancouver Whitecaps are not getting the support from the city that they have earned from the fan base. or whatever it just It was something kind of ominous. I was like, Don,
00:05:34
Speaker
Don't be don't be like dropping hints about potentially having to move the club, right? what about then They're about to play an MLS Cup. What are we talking about, Donnie boy?
Analyzing Danny Leyva's Move
00:05:46
Speaker
Anyway, ah let's talk about ah let's talk about Danny Leiva. We'll talk about MLS Cup more later. i'm going to pull up the ah the report right now, and we will dive in to the details.
00:06:01
Speaker
There you have it right here. Danny Leiva could be heading to Liga Mekis-Nakoksa. This is from J.O. a couple days ago. So this was first reported by C.L. Merlot, which when when ah when CLM has a scoop,
00:06:18
Speaker
It's probably, and it's certainly, has it has legs. It has legs. He's not going to put, so he's the level of pundit that if he puts something out there, you know that there's something behind it. And Sounder at Heart also independently confirmed the veracity of the of the report. uh that danie leva has agreed to a three-year deal with an option for a fourth year so i don't know if it's been officially announced yet i don't think it has but for all yeah exactly it sounds like a done deal this is uh this is going down uh per jo the deal would involve some sort of transfer fee although an exact figure was not immediately available so i mean i think that's the first thing
00:07:01
Speaker
we need to learn is what exactly the type of transfer fee and compensation we're talking about here. I would think it's something in the realm of a million dollars, 1.5, maybe up towards two, depending on how much Nekoxa rates the player. Danny Leiva did play against Nekoxa in League's Cup and was carving them up.
00:07:25
Speaker
So that might have helped his case as far as becoming a transfer target for them. But they're going get a transfer fee. And also, J.O. notes here, they're going to get transfer It's going to give it gives them some ah salary cap flexibility, maneuverability, of which they did not have much. This gives them a little bit more. Danny Lavo was on $350K last year, i believe, and was probably going to be end up making a little bit more. So ah let's talk about this. Let's talk about the implications and what we think of this potential deal.
00:08:02
Speaker
What do you guys think? What do you guys think, Chet? You happy about it?
00:08:09
Speaker
Danny better than Rusnak? Okay. reese's Reese is bummed out. Honestly, very surprised just based off the role he played in Leagues Cup and rotating all year. So, yeah, let's ah let's start right there. Just ah the season that Danny Leyva just had and what his value was and why this move ended up taking place. Yeah.
00:08:31
Speaker
you know Danny Leva's been around for a damn near a decade at this point. It's crazy to think about because he's only 22, but he he debuted for the first team when he was 15, famously scored a goal against the Vancouver Whitecaps. That definitely counted.
00:08:44
Speaker
um But it felt like the story with Danny Leva was he came in with a ton of potential. He was kind of the... One of the OG Academy product homegrowns that was really, really highly touted, especially at that position group, they ended up having like six of them, but he was sort of the first one where people were looking at it and were like, this kid is going to be a first team player and he could get transferred to, ah you know, he was getting, he was getting press about potentially going to Europe type stuff in a few years. And it felt like that never really panned out, not necessarily through any ah fault of his own, but guys like Obed Vargas and Josh Atencio were, you know,
00:09:30
Speaker
we're rated by the coaching staff more, or they figured that their skill sets were ah more apt for, for the minutes that could have gone to Danny Leyva. And it just, it just feels like he never really broke into a regular role here in the way that he might've been expected to.
00:09:49
Speaker
ah And I think there's a few reasons for that. But this year he, it felt like this year he finally, didn't it feel like watching him play this year that he really came into his own as a player that could really impact games, get on the stat sheet. He had four assists, all comps. ah I want to say in more than a thousand first team minutes across all competitions.
00:10:16
Speaker
So He took a step forward, I think, in that regard, but also in a couple of other facets as well. ah I don't know if he's a better player than Albert Rusnak. don't know if I would say that, but he certainly established himself as a better set-piece taker.
00:10:34
Speaker
this year. I think he had the best free kicks on the team this year. He had the best corner kicks. He had that insane free kick in leagues cup that ah knew who ended up scoring the rebound, but that was, that just showed that his, his free kick delivery, his set pieces can be special. And that was an asset to the team when he played. And that would have been a big asset next year for coming off a year where i think that I feel like the set pieces got better at the end of the year, but by and large, they were not, they were not nearly as good as they were in 2024 when that was kind of one of the only ways that ah they could score.
00:11:10
Speaker
So you are losing ah kind of X factor type skill in that. And then also ah I mean, he had a lot of dimes this year.
00:11:21
Speaker
that felt like it was just the types of passes we've always known he could hit, but for whatever reason, it wasn't showing up in games as much. ah But trying to remember exactly what goal he was, he had this kind of through ball to Paul Rothrock in one of these last games of the season. I think you guys know which one I'm talking about. can't remember what game that was, but he hit this He hit Rothrock on this sequence with a through ball that ended up leading to a goal. It was the, ah it was, was that the ah Minnesota game where he hit Roth and Rothrock hit Obed on the cutback?
00:11:57
Speaker
I honestly don't remember, but it's passes like that, that he has in his bag and that he, he had that ah against the Cox and that league's cup game. And I'm sure they saw that and were like, we want that guy.
00:12:14
Speaker
So is this ah is this a good move? If you look at the Lobbing Scorchers Instagram comments, i think I think I've figured out what's, this is our first off-season discourse since we've kind of had a lot of people tuning in.
00:12:32
Speaker
And I think any, it seems like anytime you have an outgoing player who's good or kind of good, You're going get a lot of people who go to the immediate crash out. you know This is terrible. how could we How could we lose this guy? He's so good. he's he was going to be a key player next year. what are we talking about? What are we doing?
00:12:56
Speaker
that that was all That was all the good stuff we were hearing on our on our Instagram. I think there's... A couple things to ah to keep in mind. Number one, I think the most important thing, which this is what J.O. was talking about, was this feels like a move they might not have done if they felt like Obed Vargas wasn't going to be on the team.
00:13:22
Speaker
next year I don't know if this alone means that Obed's that obed's coming back, but it's sort of it's it sort of feels like ah that's what's going to happen. And that's that is going to end up being the bigger story from all of this. Because if you remember at the Craig Weibes presser, Nico asked,
00:13:43
Speaker
Craig Wives about the situation with Obed. And he was like, you know, Craig, you realize that ah if you let him play out his contract through this year and he doesn't transfer, then he can just walk on a free.
00:14:00
Speaker
Like, are you concerned about that? And Craig Wives dismissed it. He was like, his exact quote was, I view that differently than you do, which,
00:14:14
Speaker
This is, this is one that we're really,
00:14:20
Speaker
we're really going to have to see what, what Craig Wives has in his bag here because Nico and J O were talking about the, uh,
00:14:29
Speaker
if he were to actually defend that outcome of Obed Vargas leaving this team on a, on a free, like what would his defense of that situation even be? And it amounted to something to the effect of like, well, if you think about the value that they've already gotten from Obed, Obed made 140 K or something last year.
00:14:52
Speaker
They've already gotten such insane production relative to what they paid for him. that I guess the idea is like, well, if he if you leave if he does leave on a free, then it's kind of already a W because you like developed him and you won a trophy with him, beat Messi with him.
00:15:07
Speaker
And I think Craig also said like, well, if that happens, that's like someone else's problem or something like that. And
00:15:18
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills or something. But like if Obed leaves on a free, that would be... Would that not be a disaster?
00:15:28
Speaker
Like, what is the, art I don't get the argument the other, the other way. I don't get that.
00:15:38
Speaker
And I do think, ah like, Craig Wibbs, if he's going to, if he's going to contend that later on in this, if that's where this is going, he's going to have to, going to have to explain that in a way that, he's to have to explain that to me like I'm five years old.
00:15:57
Speaker
So
00:16:01
Speaker
i I think that there is a line to be drawn there of like the fact that they were willing to move off to Danny Leyva and just kind of general how they've been in general, how they've been acting about the Obed situation.
00:16:12
Speaker
It seems like they are going to go into next year with Obed on the team and maybe let him play out his contract.
00:16:23
Speaker
that that's that That seems crazy to me. Like, am I missing something?
00:16:29
Speaker
There's no way you can let that happen. And like, I don't know, only saying I view that differently than you do. I would like to hear how you how he views it then. But that does seem to be a be the situation.
00:16:44
Speaker
And, you know, for me, the the tough thing is there's kind of no version of the Seattle Sounders next year 2026.
00:16:56
Speaker
that is That could be better than the team this year was with Obed Vargas. i don't know if that made sense. They can't be a better team next year if he's not on the team.
00:17:09
Speaker
I feel like you can kind of only regress in the quality of your starting 11, almost like no matter who you replace him with. I guess you could make an insane signing or something like that.
00:17:25
Speaker
But are they really going to be as good as Obed? as obin
00:17:32
Speaker
have a hard time seeing that. So from that standpoint, like, yeah, I want him on the team next year. And, you know, as to this point, Reese, like, Obed staying makes the least amount of sense for his career. It would only benefit the Sounders. He doesn't want to become an MLS lifer. I think it's like, there's kind of two questions, like what's good for his career and what's good for him next year. Nico and I were talking about this too.
00:17:58
Speaker
the danger the There is a danger for him on doing a transfer to a big club or a club in Europe in a World Cup year where he's trying to break into Mexico's first team. You would think that moving overseas would be like the best thing for his Mexico world cup stock, but that's not necessarily true. If he goes somewhere where he's buried on the bench and he's not playing, he's not, he's not going to get called in here. He's going to play every minute of every game to be able to kind of, to demonstrate his stock. I think there, I believe in his ability enough that I think any club he goes to, he's probably going to be one of the best players on the team. But like, as far as his world cup ambitions, uh,
00:18:45
Speaker
Just be, and it's not even like about Seattle, just being on a club where he's going to be playing is very important. And there's no guarantee of that if he gets transferred.
Obed Vargas' Career Prospects
00:18:55
Speaker
So that's something he's got to think about from his perspective.
00:19:00
Speaker
But as for being an MLS lifer, I don't think it's it's like, going to stay and be an MLS lifer. I think the thought would be, going to stay where I know I'm going to get playing time and try and boost my ah World Cup stock. that I mean, I think that is something that's ah that's at play here.
00:19:16
Speaker
Bad sequels, thank you for the super chat. RU rock. Thanks for the off-season content. I got you guys. Got you guys. we're gonna be doing off-season content. All offseason. We'll be doing content even if there's nothing to make content about.
00:19:30
Speaker
But in this case, we got blessed with our first ah Seattle Sounders transfer of the offseason. Oh, and we got Noah Tappin in. He said that he didn't want to tap in. I thought I was going to running the ship solo all night.
00:19:42
Speaker
Here he is. Let's bring him to the stage. ae What's up, man? Thanks for talking. couldn't resist. I couldn't resist. wanted in on this Danny Wave. I did. i did. you do.
00:19:52
Speaker
I do have the football in the background. I have to i have to turn this off before they they come and copyright strike us. It's the NFL. Oh, dude. Yeah. We don't want the NFL oligarchs after us. That's the ah that's the scariest class.
00:20:06
Speaker
of oligarch Okay, it's off. We're good. All right. ah i'm talking ah I'm talking Danny Leyva. ah where do you ah Where do you want to start with your take on that? Because I kind of went off on ah on an Obed tangent about the the Craig Wives quote to Nico.
00:20:25
Speaker
I view that differently than you do. Seems like bro is about to leave obed or let Obed leave on a free at the end of the year. Which, okay, this that that this is where we'll start. Am I am i missing something or is that like kind of insane to like a to say that and then not like explain it?
00:20:43
Speaker
the the the And we're talking about the presser response that Craig gave here. Kind of just the whole way he's acting about the Obed thing. I do that differently than you, which i you know I don't know what he means by that, but to me that sounds like, well, you might think it's a disaster if he plays out his contract and leaves on a free, but I don't think that.
00:21:01
Speaker
Listen, I love Craig Weibel for a lot of reasons. I think that he's a really good at his job, and a lot of people disagree with me, and that's fine. like that's That's fully your prerogative. um But one of my favorite things about him is that he has no media training.
00:21:16
Speaker
ah He's the least media-trained individual I've ever met on the planet. It's kind of crazy. um he he He's just... a guy who should not have a microphone. Like if there was a guy who shouldn't have a microphone, it's him. And like, I understand that half of your job is to literally talk to reporters. And I think that he's a lot better one-on-one.
00:21:36
Speaker
um But yeah, I don't understand his posturing from like any perspective. Like I can, I can accept. And like, I think someone just, don't,
00:21:50
Speaker
Hit a sign over here. I don't know what's going on. Sorry, guys. It's crazy night on the hill. um It's Craig out there. He's about to break into my house and tell me that I'm wrong. he wass but But like, I just, I think, I think that the posturing is incredibly odd. Like brother,
00:22:08
Speaker
It is a disaster if you lose $5 million, dollars which is like probably the minimum you would get for the guy realistically. Probably double that. $5 million? dollars You're acting coy, but like, brother, that's a fucking disaster. That's a disaster. Okay. That's, I mean, that's what I think. I don't like, i don't see this. Nico and J.O. were trying to explain the ah the spin on the What We Learned show, not like saying that they agreed with it, but just like laying out what the spin would be. And they laid it out. And I was like, and and i went in I went into listening to them.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah, I went into them listening to the lay it out, and I was thinking, like, all right, this, whatever they're about to say here, it's at least going to make, there's going to be some sort of logic to it that from an executive perspective, I can i can understand why he would think that, even if though if even if we don't think that. But then they explained it, and I was like, I...
00:23:02
Speaker
I don't think that makes sense. I don't think that makes sense. I just, I mean, listen, I want to think that it's just Craig being a little bit like uncomfortable about the question because he is getting his ass raked over the coals right now for it. Like from every side, i know for a fact too, that like Obed has new representation.
00:23:22
Speaker
They, they, they know that they have the upper hand. The Sounders will sign him. At the number that they're going to sign him at, there is a maximum number. There's a max. I think he might might not get that.
00:23:35
Speaker
There's a max number. There's a max number, and it's lower than what his camp wants right but i don't think what i think what i and this is this is completely with zero insight into the situation these are how i fly into these things chat there is 100 possibility that they're just using this as a way to like float out and get feelers get any option that they possibly can in front of obed so that he can make a decision at the end of the day for what he wants And I think that it also goes into play like what what Nico is saying is right.
00:24:10
Speaker
If Obed wants to focus on the Mexican national team and he wants to play in the World Cup, it's absolutely imperative that he keeps his minutes. And it makes way more sense to say at the Sounders, if that is your goal, I don't know what his goal is. And so that's that's a part of the problem, too, is like we're guessing all these things. um And like, who knows?
00:24:31
Speaker
But I think that when it comes down to it, it's a bunch of like agent bullshit and business bullshit where you have a number. Everyone knows the number.
00:24:42
Speaker
The number isn't bad. The number makes sense. But does Obed want to pursue going to Europe or does he want to pursue the Mexican national team? I think that his agent is strong arming and setting him up for the opportunity to actually get to pick which one he wants.
00:25:01
Speaker
And you you can't really fault the agent for that, but it does make Craig look really bad. It's an important point though, because I think a lot of people are under the assumption that his world cup ambitions and his, you're playing in Europe ambitions are kind of one in the same.
00:25:19
Speaker
When I think the reality is it's the opposite. yeah exactly His world cup ambitions are undeniably, more positively affected by him playing here because he has the guaranteed minutes, like in a midfield partnership, that's the best in the league that he's playing. And he is one of the best players in the league already.
00:25:39
Speaker
So, but apparently not best young player of the year, because that's some random I mean, you know, number one on U22 under you twenty two But like, it's it's about it's about playing time.
00:25:53
Speaker
And from his perspective, there is a serious risk that wherever he goes wouldn't give him the playing time for him to get called in for the ah the World Cup. And to me...
00:26:04
Speaker
I feel like just based on what I've heard him say in interviews about playing for Mexico and how important it is to him and like to his dad and everything, that seems like what his, the Holy grail is for him is like suiting up for Mexico at a world cup.
00:26:19
Speaker
So, I mean, I get all that and the Seattle Sounders in 2026 will be at their best if he's on the team starting every week.
00:26:32
Speaker
But, I mean, it's just, it's, I don't know. do you I have this question for you, and maybe this is a little bit counter, but, like, let's say Obed doesn't decide to sign the extension.
00:26:44
Speaker
Does that fall on Craig? Does that make Craig, like, the worst GM in the world? This is a good question. Because it's it's just really hard to know without being a... a a fly on the wall, but he has taken a lot of criticism for not, for them not getting the U22 extension done with him sooner, but kind of from everything that we've heard about it, doesn't it seem like his camp was just like, no, we know like the value that we know we have with this player is such that we don't even need to do that.
00:27:20
Speaker
Like we are, we know that if we don't sign that and you don't transfer him out,
00:27:27
Speaker
we're gonna cash in no matter what. So, like you can't make someone sign something, can you? like No, I think, yeah, I like, I come at it in a conflicted way because like,
00:27:40
Speaker
On Obed's side, they would say, you want to sign him to a U22, but he's very clearly way more valuable than a U22 slot. You're getting more production. He could be a full-time player, and it wouldn't matter. like We don't give a fuck about your roster mechanics.
00:27:56
Speaker
This is a player that makes your team great. like yeah It shouldn't matter his age. And for the Sounders, it's like, well... We have to accommodate 38 players on our roster.
00:28:09
Speaker
And there's just like, this is the spot we can fit you on. And this is the exact number that we can fit you on. And so it's one of those things where it's like, can you be mad at either party? No, like either both parties are trying to do what's best for them.
00:28:22
Speaker
It's, but the reality is like the player will always have the upper hand, especially when they're a young ah player who is, wanted by basically every league in the world, including multiple MLS. There's, i promise you, there's offers floating around out there. And this is just uneducated guessing, but there's other MLS teams who would pay him a very high TAM contract and he would play every minute.
00:28:46
Speaker
But don't you think regardless of whether it's Craig's fault or not, if the final outcome of the situation is that he leaves on a free, that is like, he's going to get absolutely obliterated for that in the discourse.
00:29:03
Speaker
Yeah. Even, even if it was collateral damage regardless, even if there was no way that Obed was ever going to sign the u twenty two extension, if he ends up leaving on it, but then you can't like take a bad offer just to avoid that bad press.
00:29:18
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Like, I don't know. I kind of don't know what, what you do here. It's a pickle, dude. They're in a pick a pickle. They should have signed him to the extension.
00:29:29
Speaker
They should signed him to a 10-year extension when he was like 15. After the debut, bro. After the Austin game, they should have signed him to an extension for 20 years.
00:29:40
Speaker
i mean, ah I don't know how else you would have avoided other than getting getting in front of the extension before he like became what he is. But since he became that good and realized that he didn't want or didn't need to to sign it,
00:29:55
Speaker
i don't I don't know if there's like a better GM that could... ah I'm not sure. you know we're We're kind of like known as like the Craig Weibel defenders or whatever. Listen, he waves to me in the hallway in the press box. I'll own it.
00:30:08
Speaker
I don't even like the the fact that we're like dubbed the defenders. What I think we are is like... we try to be fair evaluators and give credit for the good things. And if there, if there's bad stuff, we'll criticize it, you know, instead of knee jerk. He has no idea how to speak.
00:30:24
Speaker
Yeah. inform michael his His media acumen, uh, Garth Logger way. He is not in that, in that regard. But I also like
00:30:36
Speaker
Like I said, I don't know if you could sub ah better GM in there and they would have gotten no bid to sign the U22. Like, I'm not sure that that's how it works. It's the curse. Again, like, you can blame Craig for the way in which the Sounders built this roster being...
00:30:53
Speaker
lean and mean and deep. Like if it was a different build, if it was a Garth Loggerway built roster, there might be a way where they're like, we want to keep you no matter what, like we'll give you a Tam, we'll figure it out.
00:31:05
Speaker
But that's like just not the way that Craig has built this roster. And I don't think that it's been bad because you have Asus Ferrer and you have Paul Ariel and you have all these players on this. You had a Ryan Kent, you had all this stuff Like the way that he has built the roster is just different. And so it doesn't allow you it it allows you like a very narrow passageways for things like the Rothrock negotiation, where you have someone who wants more money than you physically can give them or, or like competitively across the board. Like he wants more money than his market value, but you're also like constrained within this really tight salary cap. And then you're also negotiating with Obed Vargas who,
00:31:50
Speaker
God forbid if you you can't get that deal done or he's like, I'll only do it if it's a high TAM deal or whatever. Like, yes, he has put himself in this situation, but like, that's the way he built the roster. So I can totally understand the frustration and the like,
00:32:08
Speaker
criticism on that front uh but it's like that's also the real that's the reality of a salary cap league i think he deserves to be criticized uh for the response to it like as much if not more for the situation kind of like trolling nico i view that differently than he was doing the brian schmetzer bro like craig leave the trolling nico to brian Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's Schmetz's job is trolling Nico. But it's also like, i don I don't know. I'm just like, bro, you I mean, if you're not taking this issue seriously, I feel like you feel like you should be unless I'm like, am I on drugs? Like, what am I missing, Craig? Like, you can't have him leaving on a ah honor free, but he said he views that differently. So apparently it just it feels like that's what's going to happen.
00:32:54
Speaker
Like, do you see a different outcome? There must there must be something. There's got to be something. but There must be something that isn't being talked about because, and this is something that I've also thought about. And again, you guys know how I am. I'm just shooting this from the hip. I have no inside information. But like, there must have been something said in negotiations about like, where they're pressuring him about like, oh, we know that that you want this transfer fee. Like, we know how important this transfer fee is to you. And so now he's going out when he's in public in the media and trying to downplay that. Like, I don't care.
00:33:25
Speaker
Like, it's it's it's it's it's... Like, there's no reason for you to say that. And like, I kind of agree with... Nico crashed... Had a fucking amazing crash out, by the way, on kickoff. If you guys haven't seen that... That was so good. um But like...
00:33:43
Speaker
There's got to be something. There's got to be something that we don't know about. don't know what it is. You don't say something like that unless there's context or you're just incredibly inept and unmedia trained. And like, I do think that he is partially that, but I don't think he is to that level because that was one of the worst responses I have seen from a Sounders official ever since the locker room debacle, since the locker room debacle.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah. The t-shirts. Like, I think, you know, that was on the level of yelling at your players. Like, that was weird. the response The response to Nico was ah weird. what i You know what my theory kind of is on what's going on a little bit? And this is also just, like, total speculation firing from the hip. But but i'm i like I get the vibe that Obed's camp, like his agents, are just, like, super, super hardball. Like, we're not going to compromise on anything. you're going to give us what we want or fuck off we have we have all the leverage here uh get slammed craig wabs i don't i think i'm paraphrasing what i think they said but i think that's the kind of how they act towards him and i think that's kind of there's like simmering tension or or beef there between the between the camps i agree i think i think that that's like exactly what's going on like i think
00:35:05
Speaker
That's what I'm saying. like there's There's something that's unsaid. There's something happening that we're not privy to. Obviously, we're not in these conversations. I would love to be a fly on the wall, though. Oh, my God. I would give anything to i sit in on that negotiation. I would love hard knocks for the Sounders. like I think that it would open people's eyes so much on how good Craig is at his job.
00:35:28
Speaker
I don't think people would, the people who were haters, like, you know, like Reese is going to still hate him no matter what. Reese, we love you, but brother, I know there's Reese. Is there anything that that man could do or say that would make you not, that that would make you like him? Maybe sell Jordan Morris. He would like that. But, uh, like, I think buyout Roosnack, sell Jordan Morris. yep Yeah. Um, but like, I think that's, that's the reality. Like it's, there's a lot of shit going on that we just have no idea.
00:35:59
Speaker
What's going on? I don't know. i just I just feel like it's now this situation where we're going to be going into 2026, still unresolved. No bed's going to show up to camp. We're going like, all right, I guess. we're gonna get ah Are we going to get a like holding out of camp situation? That would be fire. Dude, I need it. We haven't had that.
00:36:14
Speaker
I do. ah The idea of an MLS hard knocks is, I've been saying that for they did for years. Like a like a fully, like ah you know how they do hard knocks in season now?
00:36:27
Speaker
Like, just have Apple TV follow around the Sounders for, like, all that. Oh, my God. that would They should let us do that. Yeah. i that's like That's, like, a dream project. Like, yeah. New pet project unlocked. um We'll hit up comms. I'm sure they'll be so interested in that. like, you know, they did in-season hard knocks. I know you have this on in the living room TV. Come on. You would love to hang out with me just, like, with a camera in the corner.
00:36:51
Speaker
the They did in-season hard knocks with, like, the Giants, who are obviously, like... dumbasses and don't know what they're doing. And it was hilarious content, like seeing the behind the scenes of ah their GM. Not like not that a ah Sounders hard knocks would have the same impact, but you can get you can get such good content with that type of behind the scenes stuff. Yeah, the the ah the whole Obed component of this is one that ah I mean, I don't know. like Like we've been saying, I feel like there's just something that might be going over our heads with how this is panning out, because I don't get it. But ah what do you think of ah Danny Leyva going to Nekoxa, the original topic before we got off on the Obed tangent? I mean, that is as far as ripple effects, that's kind of...
00:37:38
Speaker
the biggest one, but just for the transfer itself, the player moving on, uh, 350 K or so, maybe more off the books, got a little more maneuverability. What do you, uh, what do you think of all this?
00:37:50
Speaker
I think it's a great deal for all parties, uh, from what I've heard, uh, that's been reported and not reported. This is the, the part where I like kind of have a little insight. I didn't know about this until it was reported on by, um, I'm totally going blank on his name, but the, the transfer guy, yes,
00:38:09
Speaker
C. Merlot. Yeah. um And I just, I think it's great for Danny. Like Danny is deserved to get minutes. He's, he's stepped up. He's improved himself so much. It was a little shocking um considering that like, I thought he would be taking,
00:38:24
Speaker
he was He was poised to get a lot of minutes. That's basically what everyone was saying. And it felt like that. And also, ah Ari with the 300-foot, three-pointer, backcourt, cross-behind-the-back shot, saying, on KJR...
00:38:41
Speaker
You know who's going to be a big step up next year? Snyder Brunel. Guess what, buddy? Get ready to learn Snyder Brunel. And Ari was right, as he usually is. What a fucking call. um But i think I think that it's really it's exciting for Danny. I think he's actually going to do really well there. That's an exciting story. They're also filming a documentary.
00:39:01
Speaker
They're doing Nekoxa hard knocks. How do they get one, but the Sounders don't get one? They do a Wrexham thing there. um So that's cool. And... and I'm going to watch that now for Danny Leyva. Exactly. And I don't know. I think it's great for him. It's great for the club. That's that's good money off the books. um What do you want to see them do with the flexibility?
00:39:22
Speaker
Assign Paul Rothrock. What the fuck? Like, yeah. Like, I know that it doesn't make sense to do that, but like, that's what I would do. It just sounds like they're not budging off their sick. but The Rothrock situation, best I can tell is he's saying, I want 800. They're like, we got six and that's it. It doesn't matter what else happens with the roster.
00:39:40
Speaker
They've kind of made their evaluation. I think that they won't do much with that flexibility. I think they might just like, kind of like work the roster a little bit more. um Nico said that they might sign you Sukunome to a contract first team contract.
00:40:00
Speaker
um It just gives a little bit of flexibility, but I also think maybe they want to keep that open for a U22 striker, but I don't really know how the hell they're going to budget for that. I mean, you kind of have to make a couple of additions now that you've lost JP and Danny Laver, right?
00:40:17
Speaker
Like, you can't just... Yeah, I think that's probably where that will go....for the next window. Like, you have to Which, then you know, that's kind of ah Exciting. Got to get a couple new players in an offseason where we weren't sure how much of that we were going get. But now with Danny Leyva kind of unexpectedly moving, that opens the door ah for that. On the topic of Snyder B, like that's exciting for me because i've been i've been the Snyder B guy, like you said.
00:40:43
Speaker
And we'll see what happens with that. But I feel like if he's just given the opportunity to get a lot of and MLS minutes,
00:40:55
Speaker
I think he could be a guy as soon as next year that, you know, you don't want to necessarily rely on him to be the week in week out starter. but I want to get a lot more minutes. Now that Danny's gone, regardless the base time, they'll say that, you know, they will sign someone. I do think they will sign someone in the in the defensive mid.
00:41:09
Speaker
Cause it was already, dude, it was already thin. Like it was already thin last year. Like, and you lose two players who are slotting in at those spots. Like, yeah, you're there. They're never going be going to sign someone or bring someone up. But like, yeah. And, and, uh,
00:41:23
Speaker
this is this is also a good point that you 22 players only are 200k in cap against the game so that's you could essentially sign 22 player and have 50k um on the on the budget from moving danny leiva who was essentially just like chilling you know when they're gonna sign the u22 eventually maybe radically maybe maybe they'll do that maybe but like not this offseason
00:41:55
Speaker
They'll do it in the summer. They'll try again in the summer. Like, I don't know. He's waiting for the calendar to switch to sign the U-22. That was the other funny quote at the press. He was like, good thing we didn't sign that. Good good thing we didn't sign the U-22. That was another one. i was like, Craig, shut the fuck up, bro. Stop talking, bro. Stop. He strutting his shit. Like, actively antagonizing the brigade.
00:42:16
Speaker
He was strutting his shit. And I was like, brother, please. I can't defend this. I can't defend this. Like, He did the whole bit. he was He was literally, he listened to our show and he said, you know what? Fuck it. Noah's right.
00:42:31
Speaker
Noah's right. You could put anyone at the nine. You could put anyone at the nine. It doesn't matter. Danny Musavsky, we don't care about that guy. We just put anyone at the nine. At U22, we got Osaze. That's basically what he was saying. Yeah, who needs who needs a u twenty two We have Osaze. And I was like, it's one of those things where it's like, even if you're right, just don't say it. Yes. Yes. Yes, brother. Brother, please. Silence. Silence.
00:42:52
Speaker
silence If you have nothing good to say, don't say nothing at all. You're you're making our lives more difficult, Craig. we We defend the good moves when you make them. He's made a a lot of them. I want to do a ah ah show at some point where we go through and like actually look at each of his moves individually and grade them out. We should do that in the in-person pod. that would be good for now We just spent an hour and a half before this content planning, so now you can see where my brain's at.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, well, because I think if we actually did that thought exercise, it would kind of illustrate what we ah what we sort of talk about all the time, which is that ah there's there's a lot of valid criticism to be had regarding not just the GM, but like they're just their whole approach to like summer windows and sort of not...
00:43:42
Speaker
what if Not making the splashy moves and stuff. So like, I think we, we complained about that. We have complained about that. And then I also think there was, there was a lot of moves at the beginning of his tenure that like raised eyebrows. Like I was thinking back on this, like why the anti-webel crash out brigade began to begin with.
00:44:04
Speaker
it's sort It's similar to the Roosanac situation, actually, where you had the start of a tenure that didn't start well, and people formulated their opinions based like purely on that. And then there was just like a ah refusal to adapt the perspective when there was new information or like new things to judge it off of. So if you think about how Craig Wybe's tenure started, it was not good. You had...
00:44:33
Speaker
Hebert. Oh, God. You had... XG King. XG King. you had Yeah, you had XG Merchant King Hebert, who... That was his, like, first move. Like, that that was his attempt of, like, being like, all right, going to try and find like, the Will Bruin, Kenny Cooper, Barrett, or whatever. And that was a a total whiff. And then you went from that to Moose, who Moose was freaking awesome this last year, but his first year, he was injured. The first few seasons. Yeah.
00:45:02
Speaker
It was only one year. It was one year, 2024. Yeah. It felt like two years. Cause it was that bad. Yeah. He had one goal, one assist in like 500 minutes. And he wasn't, a leo chu he wasn't playing. He was injured.
00:45:18
Speaker
Leo Chu, wasn't that a guard there? That was a guard there. It was really the the ones that set off the most criticism were Hebert. And then there was Moose, who after the first year on the team, that looked like an Hebert repeat. And then you had De La Vega, who we had no idea what the situation was because he was always injured. So I remember we were in the Jordan contract. and Anyone thinks that we've been capping this whole time, go back and listen Lob and Scorchers episodes like seven when when we were talking about a bear Pedro de la Vega not being able to get on the field and Noah crashing out about moose.
00:45:57
Speaker
that There was everyone, everyone, the whole fan base was totally within their rights at that point. to kind of look at the totality of it and be like, yo, what the, what's, what was this?
00:46:09
Speaker
Like a bear, just comically bad injured, unproductive, not like good when he did play De La Vega been hurt the whole time. Oh, for three.
00:46:20
Speaker
Right. Oh, for three. And and people hated him because of the Morris contract, which really. last but And that was like the icing on the cake. Like everyone was so pissed about everything else. And then they're like, and by the way, Jordan Morris is now a DP. It's like, I remember, brother, I remember when Jeremiah told us that, like in confidence ah in um I think we were in L.A.,
00:46:44
Speaker
And I was like, oh, brother. Yeah. This is going to be this is going to be a shit storm, dude. The timing of it was impeccable because he was already under the gun. And then it's like Jordan Morris is a DP and everyone's like, why? And it's like because I put these escalators in and didn't tell anyone about it. Now that's our DP nine. And everyone was like, oh, my God.
00:47:04
Speaker
And like i'm I'm saying that I understand that reaction. Like, I get it. We were in the same boat You were defending it. You were defending the escalators. Don't lie. escalators I was, but like, I definitely was not trying to, I, I did not enjoy the a bear experience any more than anyone else. I was coping by it. It was good. Comic relief.
00:47:23
Speaker
I, yeah, I was coping and saying, uh, uh, I, I was, was XG and I was like, I, well, I wasn't XG and, but it was like, you know, I swear to God, like if he just keeps getting chances like this, eventually he's going to start scoring. And he just, uh, he just never did.
00:47:39
Speaker
But ah I think since then, there's there's been there's been information to like the opposite perspective, which is that the Moose signing actually turned out to cook.
00:47:53
Speaker
The Ferreira trade was... Awesome. That worked out great. Like, regardless, I know some people are still down on the Ferreira stock. I think that's silly. I don't get it. But even if you want to say that, his like, say that his stat sheet production was underwhelming, which I would, I would grant, it was not like what we were hoping it would be when they made. the trade But they won a trophy with him as like a focal point. And he was really like, he was a great soldier for the team all year. He was, he was durable. He was available. Unselfish ran the offense really well. Won a trophy. Like that was ah an objectively like good trade. It was, it was a good trade.
00:48:29
Speaker
ah The moose signing was good. And then De La Vega. I mean, it's, it's still a tough one. Cause I know he got injured again, but where I, where I land on that one at this point is like,
00:48:43
Speaker
the the the town like the scouting what they The talent that they were scouting up and their belief that he was worth what they paid for him to bring him in and that his impact on the field could be like very, very pronounced and like he could be a real needle-moving player in MLS. Having watched De La Vega play as much as ah we got to actually this last year,
00:49:07
Speaker
I think they were they were they were right with that. like The player is incredible. like His talent level is off the charts. So that that aspect of it, I think the GM and the scouting department, they they had it right. It's just he hasn't been able to really he hasn't been able to stay healthy. But that's a different issue than missing on the talent evaluation. like He clearly is a easy quality player.
00:49:32
Speaker
he yeah Maybe that's what it But anyway, all that's to say is like, it's but the record is much more of a mixed bag than it gets talked about. So I feel like we, we try and be the ones who, who point that out. Cause I think that's being fair, but then he gets on the mic and is like putting on that performance at the presser. And it's just like,
00:49:54
Speaker
so I don't know. I don't even remember what we were talking about, but that's basically where I, and I think we should have Craig on. I think we should have Craig on for under the lights.
00:50:06
Speaker
I mean, it's been an open invitation. I mean, literally said to him, like, please come on the show. And he's like, oh, yeah, no he's down. I've just never set it up with PR. Like, he's so down. I i talked to him, like, want to say like a couple months ago. And he was like, oh, yeah, I'm down.
00:50:23
Speaker
ah come on. That might have been a like, I'll come on and then I'm not actually going to come on type situation. The thing is, he is too much of an open book, though. I fear we would get him in trouble and never be able to have a guest on here again. Exactly. That's kind of what I'm worried about. This is a good scoop here. we're ready ah According to Roberto, Brian Gutierrez to achieve us five million.
00:50:44
Speaker
Thank you for your money. I like Brian Gutierrez. Wait, we Brian Gutierrez is going to play for LAFC now? Exactly. They've done it again.
00:50:56
Speaker
Craig would never come on the show again when the brigade hits the chat. Yeah, exactly. Can you imagine that? Yeah. We'd have to hide the chat. James and Reese just like, this is our moment. Yeah. there would be there would be We would have to have seven moderators in the chat to like make sure to keep you... Frankly, we probably wouldn't wouldn't stream that. We would probably pre-record that one.
00:51:16
Speaker
Yeah, we would edit out all of his gaffes because we're clear. We're shills. we're I feel like I feel like we could ask the tough questions, but in a way that's like not hyper confrontational.
00:51:27
Speaker
But I don't know. It's it's a it's a long shot that this would ever happen. But Craig, if you if you're watching, which we know you are, come on the pod. Let us know what's going on with ah Obed Vargas potentially leaving on a free transfer. We definitely want to know about that.
00:51:44
Speaker
The lack of concern I found concerning. We need him on to clarify these things. We've got to be like, brother, you know that that sounds insane. Because that's what I want to say to him as a friend.
00:51:57
Speaker
Craig, we're boys. We're boys. We wave at each other in the hallways. like We're boys. like why are you Why are you saying these things? And why are you doing it to my co-worker? like why you Why are you trolling Nico like that? Why are we trolling Nico?
00:52:11
Speaker
It's my job to troll Nico. at least say like At least say like, oh, I don't think you should be saying anything. I've seen your fantasy football trades. like you know like At least if you're gonna troll him, hit him with something good, like not just like a smug-ass remark. like It was just not...
00:52:27
Speaker
was just not it, bro. No, I think, honestly, my my biggest critique of him over anything outside of the early whiffs of which there were, i mean, really two out of those three, i would argue, actually ended up kind of panning out.
00:52:42
Speaker
Yeah. But my biggest critique of him is honestly the media aspect of it. Like, Nico and I were talking about, like, the contrast and how good Garth is at that stuff compared to Craig Wives. I guess it's, like, not the most, most important part of the job, but it is an important part of the job. Like, it's... The fans... I understand that the fans aren't, like, important in your success, but, like...
00:53:08
Speaker
it You do need to be a little bit endeared. Like it's yeah Craig is not an endearing fellow when he gets on the mic. like Well, and this is what J.O. and Nico were talking about, which is like, yeah it's not about like defending yourself necessarily. It's about like articulating a positive vision that like fans are excited about and can get behind like saying like yeah i'm not concerned about obed vargas potentially leaving on a free that's player brain bro it's player brain that's part of the problem is like these these gms who are former players they don't understand how the media works brother you're gonna get quoted
00:53:46
Speaker
So it doesn't matter the question they ask you. It matters your response because your response sets the tone. He just needs media training. And the fact that the Sounders haven't given him media training yet is kind of a failure on... Well, maybe they have and he's just... Sometimes you just don't have, like, the aptitude for for something. He might think that he's cooking up there. He needs to... Here, Craig, this is... I'm direct to camera. Direct to camera shot. Craig, let me tell you two things. Two things, okay?
00:54:16
Speaker
Stop treating everyone like they don't know what you're talking about. It's not... it's I know that what you're trying to do is like explain it to the people, make them like think that they understand, right?
00:54:28
Speaker
Because that's like what you would do. You want to like be open and honest and like understand. Don't do that. Don't do that. You come off as a dick. Don't do it. It's not worth it. Second of all, just like...
00:54:43
Speaker
either don't say anything or, but don't be honest. You got to stop being so honest. Like it's not good. It's not good to be honest in that position. I'm sorry. Like, I know that that's his whole bit.
00:54:56
Speaker
You got, you got to stop. You got to stop being honest. I don't even think it's about being dishonest. It's just like you can use what's it called? Like the GM version of coach speak, you know? Yes.
00:55:08
Speaker
Like that's that that's the thing that most executives in his type of position do and know how to do that. He just like does it.
00:55:19
Speaker
Yeah, even Brian's not like, like just be more like a little bit more like Brian. Brian, I would not say is the best ever. He he lets a lot of things fly. and he'll You know, he'll pick on people.
00:55:30
Speaker
But like, just. Oh, dude, I don't know. Maybe he needs a podcast. he could I could see the the Craig Weibel content creator arc.
00:55:42
Speaker
no I'm just saying. everyone else is right Everyone else, all the players now are doing it. So why not? There's a player, Sounders player of the podcast? ah Well, not not Sounders players, but like, you know, Julian Gressel and guys like that. yeah, Julian Gressel.
00:55:57
Speaker
ah It's okay. we're but We're boys with them. You want to talk about some Paul Rothrock? Why no one is talking about Rothrock? What's up with not keeping him on the team and pay him better? Should I debut my edit here?
00:56:10
Speaker
on the stream just i think it all it got copyright struck before even getting pubbed but no don't don't drop it yet because we don't know what's gonna happen he could i know he still could come back it it feels like he's for sure not coming back but i don't think it's written in stone i think what he's doing is going out and seeing what the market is which is his right his prerogative And I think if, if the market isn't what he thinks it is, then there is a possibility. There is still a possibility that they, they bring him back on the number that Seattle was offering him. It does feel like there's a little bit of like bad blood.
00:56:48
Speaker
it like feeling disrespected kind of vibe. Doesn't it? Doesn't it feel like that? But yeah, it's, I don't think it's out of the question that he's not going to be back. But the other, the one thing I will say is like, uh,
00:57:01
Speaker
i'm not I'm not really sure. it's a Again, I don't know if it's a situation where there's a party that's in the wrong from the standpoint of 800 for Paul Rothrock. I want them to pay that, and I would pay him that. But you've got to understand about gm you gotta to understand the arguments. ah from the other side of that when we're talking about a salary cap league like these are these that's what is playing into their thinking and their decision with like not wanting to go past a certain number and even if i don't agree with that evaluation i think paul rothrock is worth 800 to this team like i honestly do
00:57:43
Speaker
like uniquely so to this specific team but like if they're if they're they're the ones who are looking at the cap and if they're looking at that like that would put us in a place that would preclude us from doing other stuff that we need to do then i at least can see how they would get to a place of like we can't go past a certain number so there's too many damn escalators in that contract are that's why they could never make a deal The Rothrock contract? i Sign up for 600 and give him the escalators to 200. you have escalators in your contract, I think it like there's some weird thing where it counts. Here's the argument against Paul Rothrock being an eight hundred k player, which is that ah for for all the value he brings to the team, he's not an elite stat sheet guy.
00:58:36
Speaker
Or like an even... like His stat sheet production is like solid, but it's not incredible. Now he brings so much value beyond the stat sheet in a way that like I, sometimes people say that about players where I'm like, okay, like that's cope. Like, oh, the value he brings is beyond the stat sheet. You're saying that because he doesn't do anything on the stat sheet.
00:58:59
Speaker
Paul Rothrock, I don't think that is Cope. Like, in terms of what he brings to the table as a two-way player, ah he is the ultimate Schmetzer ball, like high press, high work rate, doggone defense type of winger. That is just like, if you built Brian Schmetzer's favorite player of all time in a lab, it would literally be Paul Rothrock.
00:59:21
Speaker
Yeah. Statute production, be damned. So that's where, and we're biased because we're heavily put pro Paul Rothrock, but that's where I look at it and I'm like, the 800K, like, it's it's it's about more than this than the stat sheet. It's about everything else. Like, it's ah about the work rate. It's about the attitude, laying it on the line for the club in the city every time single time he's got the badge on.
00:59:42
Speaker
Paul Rothrock embodies all of that as much as any sounder like i could I could think of, man. And if that's not worth eight hundred k
00:59:51
Speaker
If they do let him walk, they might find out that it was worth 800K. Like, I'll say that. I think your moose argument straight up applies to Paul Rothrock more than than moose. like Which moose argument?
01:00:03
Speaker
your Your argument that, like, it's going to be hard to find what you have out on the open market. Like, it's almost worth figuring out a way to keep him because, like... the grass ain't always greener. Like, I think that's the truth, right? Like there is a uniqueness to the archetype of Paul Rothrock in this attack specifically in the way that Brian wants to play.
01:00:31
Speaker
And like, also he's a fan favorite. Like that you need to do, sometimes you have to make bad business decisions to, to, you got to overpay a little bit sometimes. like i just i don't I don't know. i i understand it from a business perspective, but it's it's really like...
01:00:51
Speaker
I don't know what number he's asking for too. I don't know what real number he's asking for. So it's hard to like say anything about that. Like, again don't know this for sure, but like from all the reporting, everything I've read, it sounds like the sticking point is 600 versus 800. Right.
01:01:07
Speaker
It's around 200 K. So let's shoot the fucking difference and get this shit over with. Like how much did, how much were you paying fucking Leo Chu? I don't know. But like,
01:01:19
Speaker
I tell you what, Paul Rothrock's 10 times a player Chu ever was. Someone said, we paid Jordan Morris 2.25 million. How many goals did he score this season? There you go. Paul Rothrock is durable.
01:01:30
Speaker
Paul Rothberg. The only thing he does is break his hand. He loves to break his hand. That's he will always have a broken hand. to play through with the bionican so it But it's like fine. Yeah, it's like he's durable. We are already missing wingers, right?
01:01:43
Speaker
Pedro de la Vega. God knows how long he's going to be out. God knows he's going to get injured again. So like having a dude who's durable, who's a really good superstar. Don't put that out there about Pedro de la Vega. Okay, it's
01:01:58
Speaker
So, free what do we think? Freaking. No, I mean, you i mean like you are going to have to enter the season like without De La Vega for the first month or two.
01:02:10
Speaker
And like you're just going to put Georgie there off rip forever? Because of the cutback passes. what because of the cutback passes Exactly. I've already argued this. Like, I don't think that's the the vibe. Like you can only do so many cutback passes, you know?
01:02:26
Speaker
yeah And I guess Paul Areola, you're hedging your bets on Paul Areola, a double ACL tear, a 30 plus year old man.
01:02:36
Speaker
You're betting it on there. Like, all right, like, Awesome. I, went I believe i like him as a player a lot. Like I have been a big fan of Paul. oro but It's like a matter of what you can feel like you can really bank on. paul rothro You can take to the bank. Paul are all is a little bit more of an unknown coming off the injury. Exactly. And then it's like, then you're put in this position where Paul are all and Georgie are your depth starters going in into the season. And and and jesus ferreira and then i just like i don't ah do you play reed baker whiting on the wing well we thought there's there is uh there is free agency like there's yeah there's espinoza maybe like like okay how would you feel about a situation where rothrock walked but the replacement was espinoza i think that's not terrible
01:03:31
Speaker
i would just I would be very salty about Rothrock being team. They're going the same amount of money. Yeah, but not like i be i it's not like anything against Espinoza. I've already said like how hype I would be on that edition.
01:03:46
Speaker
But I would just be, for the sentimentality and the vibes, I would be salty that Rothrock's not on the team. But as far as like replacing the production on the field, there' that's like a way that's a way... Also, I'm sorry. Paul Rothrock was a starter.
01:04:02
Speaker
He was a starter. yeah it doesn't We talk about this all the time, Ari. People forget about this, and it's something... You cannot just sign a player and immediately slot them in and expect them to show up and ball out. Like...
01:04:15
Speaker
There is an acclimation period. Hopefully people do learn that lesson and rare experiment all over again. Yes. Like, like I'm hoping people learned that lesson from Jesus Ferreira this year, but also I don't mean mean, I don't know. Like the, the discourse around Ferreira, I still think has lost the plot like a little bit. I look at that as like a resounding success of a season for him. And some people just don't.
01:04:37
Speaker
which I think is weird. But like he like to your point, he like that genuinely did not start off looking good at all. And people were already writing him off. And then he turned out to be excellent. But there is that acclimation period of a new player that you wouldn't have with Paul Rothrock, who, like you said, talked about him recently.
01:05:01
Speaker
as like a role player kind of backup, or at least used to, he played in 33 of the 34 league games and started, you know how many games he started?
01:05:13
Speaker
20, 21, 27. Okay. okay I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Ari. I'm going to say, i know that I'm in the minority. You have to pay him what he wants. I know that I'm in the majority of like fans and the minority of the pundit class, but it's like,
01:05:28
Speaker
He is a player that you can bank on going forward, too. This isn't just a signing for right this second. You have to look ahead. You have to look ahead. He is serviceable. He fits the system. He already plays for the team. He's already been a starter. You know what you're going to get. You know what you're getting. i don't understand it. And you're literally telling us, Craig, at this press conference, you're saying we're doing everything we can to keep the current team that we have together. So fucking do it.
01:05:55
Speaker
So fucking do it. You know what you did? You put him on a pedestal. You put him on a poster. You swapped the messy jerseys for him. You Brian and the goal that like made that even more iconic. Brian put him at the nine in that game so he could score that fucking goal because he trusted him so much. Yeah.
01:06:17
Speaker
What else? what And he's yeah in in pointed out here, too. He continues to improve. that His value, you could sell him at some point. like you know You sell him at 28. Maybe you sell him somewhere. like There's value in him. I understand that the investment is hard right now, but it's like the difference of $100,000 and Espinosa is going to be the same cost, if not more.
01:06:40
Speaker
So what are we talking about? What are we talking about? i don't I don't quite get it. Like, I understand, again, i get that you have to play the business. You got to play ball. You need to work within your salary cap.
01:06:55
Speaker
But it's like, dude,
01:06:59
Speaker
he's he's a peace the Seattle DNA. Yeah. He's, I mean, this Gianni's given the ah the devil's advocate, you know? Love Paul, just not an 850K player. I think that's kind of what we're saying. How much he making? He's, if he's not an, 850K, probably an overpay, but it's like, what you have to evaluate is if it's a situation that's like worth the overpay for everything. He's not an the sheet, is he an 850K player?
01:07:30
Speaker
but is's he eight hundred and fifty k player Overall, I think you could you kept you could make the argument that he was producing and providing for the team that level of not stat sheet production, but like
01:07:50
Speaker
all the stuff around that in addition to what he brings. Yeah. to the stat sheet that combines to make a player who's more valuable than 600. Say, I don't know. I am currently diving in here to the fall salary release to see who is making 850 K so that we can compare here because it's like, brother, I, I don't, can you pull it up?
01:08:13
Speaker
Yeah. Um, hold on. Um,
01:08:24
Speaker
Share screen. Someone in chat is saying Moose is on 450K. So that honestly speaks to what I've been saying about Moose even more, I think, because that's less than I thought he was making.
01:08:37
Speaker
Hold on. Let me try something here.
01:08:50
Speaker
um let's just search 800 see if there's anyone making 800k that's going to be kind of hard so Oh, this is for all of us.
01:09:03
Speaker
So you've got this random Montreal. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do that. Do that more. Random. there you go Do you know who this dude is? ah No clue. CF Montreal, no, I got nothing. Making 800K.
01:09:19
Speaker
This is kind of a bad way to do I mean, I don't know if comparing him to other players making the same thing is all that instructive because lot of it comes down to like your specific roster.
01:09:30
Speaker
Yeah. Like people were pointing out, like that this team's sort of up against it with the cap, which is something that they're having to take into account when they're evaluating how much they should pay.
01:09:42
Speaker
Paul Rothrock, but they have they have a little more maneuverability in that way now with the Danny Leyva deal. Yeah, that's true. Like what you said at the beginning of like use that money to pay Paul Rothrock, like is that's, I don't think that's like crazy.
01:09:55
Speaker
Mark Anthony K makes a hundred K still. Yeah. How old is that guy? Exactly, bro. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's definitely a lot of players who made,
01:10:12
Speaker
eight to 10 times the money that he did this year that were not anywhere near as, uh, as valuable, but I don't think that really, that and that alone doesn't prove to me that like,
01:10:24
Speaker
that's what the Sounders should pay him. Also, I think people are forgetting that this is a makeup contract too. That's why he wants the money. He wants the money because he was making $90,000 a year and he wanted to make back the money that he lost essentially in his early career.
01:10:43
Speaker
So people are like, oh, 800 is insane. 800 is insane. 800 is insane. I get that. But in, in the perspective of Paul Rothrock, it's like, I just played for you. For two years for now on nothing.
01:10:58
Speaker
And I was literally a starter. You had me as the face of the squad while we took down messy while paying me a hundred and four k Right. Exactly. Like that's, that's why he wants the money.
01:11:13
Speaker
i think I think that that's the reality. Like, he has been underpaid, and he wants to make his money. Soccer players have a limited time and all of that. It's just like, yeah, that's just the way that it goes, man. Yeah, and you could say, oh, well, like, take the hometown discount, just take the 600. But, like, who are we to, like, tell anyone else that? like that I would, bro, brother, give me the eight hundred k Are you kidding me? Come on. Give me the six hundred Give me the 100. Give me the 105. I would sign for the 600 racks easily. Yeah, dude, easy.
01:11:48
Speaker
But we're on a different level, you know? like um What do you think happens with this? like Do you think that he comes back or do you think he walks? Because the way I see it, like he it seems like he's going to walk.
01:12:02
Speaker
But I guess here's another way to think of it. If you were ah MLS team that's kind of down in the dumps and you just need like foundational, reliable guys to give you a better floor.
01:12:19
Speaker
Would you pay Paul Rothrock Listen, i know i don't i don't think they're going to have to pay an 800K. I think that's the reality. It's like he wants 800K from Seattle. He wants 700K from Seattle, whatever.
01:12:34
Speaker
But I think that he might take a risk elsewhere. Sign for 600 somewhere else just as like a FU? i don't know if it's an FU. It's just a like this is a new challenge. There's different reasons that people you know do it. But I mean...
01:12:51
Speaker
I don't really know. i just, I think this style fits him well. Like it's just, it's crazy. I don't know. I, we're talking 800 K like 800 for what he's producing. If he was producing this in the championship, like he wouldn't get paid a million dollars. Like, this is just ridiculous. This is stupid. Like i don't, I don't, I don't know. It's just because of the salary cap. Like I don't think it's that big a deal, but whatever.
01:13:20
Speaker
it is It is like an interesting dilemma of like... I don't think they're going to sign him. I think he's going to move. It's like how much is the... ah
01:13:32
Speaker
How much is like the everything he brings to the table worth relative to the production type argument? like how much How much money is is the is the Rothrock aura and the vibes and everything he does for the team like as a two-way player and stuff? How much money is that is that worth with Seattle's current roster construction and situation? I mean, i don't really know, but I just, I mean, I hope they get him back because, i mean, obviously you love Paul Rothrock, but I also think they kind of, like we were talking about, they kind of need him. Yeah, they kind of need him.
Contract Complexities and Fan Reactions
01:14:04
Speaker
Like, you got to be able to, you got to be, we all know what's going to happen, which is if he does come back, is they're going to start somebody else and then he's going to end up starting every game because of like injuries injuries.
01:14:16
Speaker
whatever i think honestly like if the obed situation wasn't in such shambles the paul rothrack deal would have been done i think it's true like i think that there's just so much they're freaking the fuck out about the obed deal so much that they're like having to try and keep as much cap space as possible open because like If you're going to pick between Obed or Paul Rothrock, like, again, I love Paul Rothrock, but you've got to sign Obed.
01:14:50
Speaker
Pick one, primetime on 775 or Obed on a TAM. I mean, they're going to pick Obed on a TAM because they want to transfer him for a transfer fee, but that's...
01:15:02
Speaker
But it's like, I think that's a good way of thinking of it. of Like, it's not and always as simple as just like pay the man. Like those are the, that's the types of decisions you have to make.
01:15:12
Speaker
The problem with this whole situation is that everyone's valid. Like, yeah I think the Sounders are very valid in their offer. I think they've offered him a number. I think so, too. I know a lot of people disagree with that, but I think so, too. Like 100 to 600 with what they have at their disposal with this salary cap league with all these rules. Like, that's not like a I don't think that's like disrespectful. Is it?
01:15:35
Speaker
i dont it's i don't think that I don't think Paul Rothrock thinks it's disrespectful. I think that it's a game, again. like we're We're talking about this like this is all personal. like Yes, it is to an extent, but like it's not... It's not. like I don't know. i don't know how to explain it. It's just...
01:15:50
Speaker
yeah It's a shit show right now. It's a long time for Paul Rothrock to be making a stink. Unfortunately, that's the truth. That's the end of it. And so what he's going to do is test out free agency. And if someone gives him a good number, like why not take it? Like, I just, I think that's, I think that's the
Georgie's Development Potential
01:16:07
Speaker
truth. Like you're going to be, you're going be watching Georgie hit these cutbacks next year and, and you're going like it. All right.
01:16:13
Speaker
Yeah. That's, you're that's where this might be, ah where this might be headed. I'm okay with that, but I'm happy that he's going to have a chance to prove me wrong and I'm excited for it.
01:16:27
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, not to like go down that whole, uh, rabbit hole, but, uh, I, I, when we were going back and forth on this, the last time about the Doyle cutback stat, uh, I think what you were saying about, ah
01:16:46
Speaker
questioning him being well-rounded enough in that Schmetzer archetype type winger role. There's going to be growing pains. There's going to be growing pains with that. And it's a valid concern as to whether he can develop his part, that part of his game enough to be trusted by Schmetzer to be like a regular starter as opposed to a super sub. I do think the only way you can give him a chance to prove he can do that and develop the skills to do that is the plan.
01:17:14
Speaker
And that's sort of the idea. It's like, it's not necessarily going into it with, uh, we're going to, we're going to bet the farm on Georgie carrying all this attacking load this year. It's, it's, they just have to, I guess they have to make the evaluation of, do we think he can evolve into this type of player,
01:17:33
Speaker
To be to have, you know, he doesn't have to be like a like for like for Jesus Ferreira and Paul Rothrock, but he does. He yeah like you're right that he does need to develop and hone that part of his game to be a starter on this team and that like cutback passes alone while a good quality like yeah, that's not you can't start him based on that, but I do think.
01:17:56
Speaker
His defending is I think he can get there. He can defending is abysmal. That's the problem. If he can learn... I don't think it's abysmal, but he has a lot individual... How many penalties did he give up? How many free kicks did he give up? That's what I'm saying. It's like there's individual errors that stand out, but over the course of a game, it's not like he's making those constantly. Because he's playing 30 minutes.
01:18:18
Speaker
Right. So when he plays 60 minutes and he does that six times instead of two...
01:18:25
Speaker
It's going to be a Leo Chu effect. And I'm just like, I just listen. I love Georgie. think he's great. I just think it's a lot to thrust him immediately into this starting position. Paul Oriola will probably start.
01:18:39
Speaker
But like, regardless, it's just like.
01:18:43
Speaker
i keep developing Georgie. He's I just I don't see I don't see that he's ready yet. I don't know. He, based on what we saw last year, ah it's just, you know, that Schmetzer has ah has a type of winger, and Georgie has some of those qualities. But, like, when when we're talking about how Paul Rothrock and Jesus Ferreira have all of those qualities, Georgie is not there yet. And it is, like, you know, he's he's still a young player, but he's, like, 23, 24. Like,
01:19:13
Speaker
like Will he ever get there is ah is a fair question, but I don't think we have we i don't think we have enough ah to say either way yet. And i like my thing is just that the physical talent and attributes and how exciting he is to watch – if he does develop, he could be like, I don't want to say unstoppable, but he could be a real, real handful.
01:19:39
Speaker
Like if he, if he does complete his game more and Seattle could stand to benefit from that a lot, because the reality is there's, it's pretty hard to find guys that can just like destroy defenders one V one like that. And like,
01:19:56
Speaker
get into those dangerous areas and create those dangerous chances.
Wilfred Nancy's Press Conference Highlights
01:19:59
Speaker
like cutbacks nice or Like, from watching him play, we can see his ability to do that stuff is special. And if it does if it does develop more and he becomes more well-rounded, I mean, he could be insane.
01:20:12
Speaker
Listen, to quote Wilfred Nancy, I started my career at 19. I am 22. Maybe I started it too quickly. I was going to play that during this show to to relive it because I was watching it today and I was like crying, laughing. So now that you brought it up, you want just do that? i just but like I think he has some truth in there that's like...
01:20:35
Speaker
Keep developing Georgie. He's on the right path. He's doing all the right things. He's getting minutes for his national team. He's getting better. Throwing him into a starting position could be disastrous for everyone involved. And it's like, I don't think that's what they're to do. Even if Rothrock walks, like you, like you said, Paul Areola will be the guy.
01:20:55
Speaker
yeah Yes. But it's just like, i don't know. I was, I,
01:21:00
Speaker
Also, how do we go from everyone on the team being a winger to no one being a winger? Yeah, exactly. It's kind of crazy how ah how fast that happens. Also, everyone's a six or an eight until until they're not.
01:21:11
Speaker
like I don't know. i think maybe we should Maybe we should sell Moose to have some more salary cap space. ah All right. i want to watch the I want to watch the Nancy short. Real real quick, just ah just indulge me. Why not?
01:21:24
Speaker
ah So just to give you all the ah context, Wilford Nancy, Columbus Crew head coach, no more, has been hired by Celtic in the ah Scottish Premiership. Legendary side. Big move for for him. But what is funny about that is ah we posted a a short...
01:21:43
Speaker
like it's like a year and a half ago or no this was like two years ago uh was a while ago at this point uh of wilford nancy's press conference after the famous sean zawatsky game and it randomly started picking up steam this is how i learned about the celtic thing because i was like why does our wilford nancy short have five k views what the hell and then it turned out is because there's all these rumors linking him to celtic so the entire uh country of scotland was watching our wilford nancy short And that was also funny too, because i was looking at our, ah our analytics that like show you where our viewers and listeners are from. And, you know, it's like all mostly Seattle. And then the random ones this last month were Scotland and Minnesota, which I thought i was like, Oh, so the, the loons, the loons fans are tuning in there. They're probably tuned in right now. Hey, listen, you guys.
01:22:39
Speaker
Coming back for Rick Ramsey, March 22nd. Get ready, buddy. Ready. See if he can do it again. Tell him to sign a couple guys. Maybe ah a little play a little footy this time.
01:22:50
Speaker
Learn how to progressive pass, buddy. ah But I just wanted to play it because I was i was watching the Nancy crash out again. It's so good, man. It's my favorite MLS presser of all time. It's so good.
01:23:03
Speaker
Oh, my God. And the context. contract for one game, knowing that this is not the moment to sign this player, because what is going to happen? What we're going sign this player is going to come in the local room. He's going to be part of the group, but he's not ready for that. So in my language, but this is fucking difficult. Start my career at 18 years old, but I stopped at 22 years old.
01:23:28
Speaker
Maybe I started too fast. Maybe earned a lot of money when I was 18 years old, but at 22 years old, I had no more money. No more money. The bit at the end just gets me every time.
01:23:46
Speaker
but the the bit at the end just gets me every time When I was 22, I had no more money. I'm going to forever use that. like that's It's just in my brain. well and so like i was just dying laughing at the thought of like the entire Celtic fan base. like This, with no context, that's like their first impression of Wolver Nance. We got so many comments that were like, I have no idea what he's talking about, but I like him.
01:24:12
Speaker
They were like they they werere like, I hope he tries this with the board. But then then like thinking back on the context of that, which was the Sean Zawadzki game, which is what he's talking about there. is what You can't tell from the clip, but what he's talking about is he's trying to justify why he didn't roster backup goalkeeper yeah for that game. And then his goalkeeper got a red card and he didn't have one. So Sean Zawadzki had to go in in goal. And he is...
01:24:39
Speaker
Like, I think that line at the end, he's saying, like, I'm not going to put the MLS next pro goalkeeper in there because it's, like, too much, too early. He's not ready yet. He's going to ruin his career if he plays one And he starts talking about his own career. Like, when I was 18, I got all this money. And then when I was 22, I have no money. Like, I kind want to hear that story, Wilfred.
01:24:57
Speaker
Yeah. Hear about the playing career of Wilf Nance. think that would be... When I was 22, had no more money. And now I'm making a fuckload of money at Celtic. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, shout out Wolford, Nancy, a distinguished era. Certainly, ah he is a very good coach. Like, I'll give him that.
01:25:18
Speaker
It's also funny because we literally called that he was going to get he was going to go to Europe. Also, we he i like I like poke, but I still kind of wish that Nancy was the USMNT head coach.
01:25:30
Speaker
Those would have been better press conferences yeah for sure. How do you think he's going to do it Celtic? Do you think he's going to give your prediction and then I'll tell you how I see it? ah I don't know. i Well, yeah I think he's going to do well because the Scottish Premiership is the biggest bullshit league all time. I could coach Celtic too, ah but like they go to UEFA Champions League and stuff, right? So he'll get to Rufus. I think he'll do. He's a good coach.
01:25:53
Speaker
He is a good coach. he He burned out a little bit at the end at Columbus. But like, you know, i I think he's a good coach. I think he has a good message. I think he's very tactically smart. And with the ability to like sign a bunch of players and, you know, it feels a little like I know it's a step up, but it does feel a little lateral considering. Is Scottish Premiership better than MLS?
01:26:22
Speaker
I think that Celtic and Rangers are both better than MLS, but the league in general, no. The league in general, no. No, and he's going to the best team with the most resources. It's Celtic and Rangers over there. That's it.
01:26:36
Speaker
Shout out, Rankin. um i But... And we'll see how he does in like ah other competitions like Champions League and stuff. I'm like i'm excited to see how he can how he can roll in competitions like that. But I do think that ah he showed in MLS that there there's this select kind of group of coaches in the world at any given time that really like genuinely can give you an advantage in any given game. And I think he's in that category, and I think that that is a skill that
01:27:06
Speaker
that's unique and it transfers leagues. It's not like you go to another league and you all of a sudden you forget how, how to do that. And you're in over your head. Maybe some stuff you did in other leagues won't work in the, ah in the new league, but I just, I consider him in that, in that tier of coach. that's why I think it's like, ah I think it's a good hire for them. And I wouldn't be surprised if he keeps excelling and maybe even gets an even bigger job than that afterwards, because, know,
01:27:32
Speaker
he his The most impressive thing he demonstrated in MLS was how much of a difference his his tactics actually make in a given game. Like his X's and O's, they affect results in a way that not every coach necessarily can do as consistently. Right.
01:27:50
Speaker
i like I don't know if... I think Schmetz is better at that stuff than people give him credit for, for sure. But I don't know if he like affects games that way, that as consistently as Nancy seemed to for ah for Columbus.
U.S. Open Cup Significance and Challenges
01:28:04
Speaker
Yeah. No, I agree. i had I wish him well, too. like i want I want people to see that like MLS is a great place to be in coach and coach and all of that. like i Also, I kind of hope he crashes out and we get some more content because like the Scottish media is definitely going to piss him the fuck off.
01:28:25
Speaker
He had it easy in Columbus. There's like three people who live in Columbus. Can you imagine if he didn't roster a backup goalkeeper for Celtic? Oh, like my God. That happened to them. Oh, my God. That is the that is the one thing where like he's a brilliant. He was always complaining about the roster rules. He was bitching nonstop about the roster rules at any possible time he could get. he was like, we got poisoned, but also it was the roster rules.
01:28:51
Speaker
um And oh, my God. Dude, he had the poisoning. with this This man like had so much. ah We need like a, in the arms of the angels. I was having a great time. have been poisoned.
01:29:07
Speaker
we have been poisoned i was having such a great time going down memory lane of the sean zawatsky game because if you remember that that i think that was the first show where lobbing scorchers like broke into the national that was our first time because yeah the pod we recorded after that game was legendary think we need more of those we need to do more of those i had the well but like games don't always give us content like that like The the the quote that got the most play was when I said, get wrecked, get bammed on, get a backup goalkeeper. And like that to me is like, that's like a seminal lobbing scorchers moment. And we have Wilford Nancy to to thank for that. If he hadn't crashed out like that after the game where Seattle put four past Sean Zawadski. Yeah. Bruce Snack's stat padding masterclass right there. Yeah, that was oh that that was an even funnier talking point because Bruce Snack got the hat trick, so like none of them counted. Yeah, of course. Great times, man. Great times. thats That was the originator of the didn't count.
01:30:08
Speaker
Like when we started talking about the didn't count thing too. Yeah, well, because that was right when Rusnak's stat sheet production was dispelling that complaint about him. Yeah. So like then it had to pivot to it doesn't count and he's lazy.
01:30:23
Speaker
So that you're right. That was the genesis of that, too. That that random ass game against the Columbus crew. So much so much stuff happened out of that one. um what a thought All right. ah You want to hit a little moose discourse to a to to close it out here? Let's do it. yeah why not Yeah, why not? I mean, let's talk about the Open Cup.
01:30:44
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We do have to talk about that. Sounders are not playing in the U.S. Open Cup. ah This is the first time that the Sounders organization will not be in the Open Cup since like 2003. Yeah. So that's insane.
01:30:57
Speaker
three so that's insane They're doing this because the World Cup is happening, famously, in the city of Seattle, famously. And so they're removing the first round of um the play-in, I don't know, whatever. There will also not be any Ballard FC. Ballard FC got banned on, and they will not be in there. And so no team in Seattle will be competing. There's one team...
01:31:26
Speaker
They will be competing U.S. Open Cup legends Spokane Velocity, who also were in the ah the final. They were in the final for. They're good. They were good. We went to the Ballard Spokane game.
01:31:39
Speaker
They're like, they're like, ah I don't know. They got something cooking where they're a lot better than a lot of League Two teams. Yeah, like they're good, but they they went to the League Two final this season um and lost. But I think that's pretty cool. Like, you know, so they'll be representing. Maybe we'll have to go out there. That could be fun to go out to Spokane for a game. so i can open up We were talking about this. I mean, the Sounders, we don't even have to do that. The Sounders are gonna be playing there and in the Champions League.
01:32:06
Speaker
um But yeah, so no Open Cup. This is going to be the second year the Sounders haven't been in it, but there's literally no representation at all. So I guess I'll just i'll just monologue about it for a second. yeah Cook.
01:32:19
Speaker
I love the open cup. I think the open cup has so much charm and so much like really fun atmosphere. I love the shithousery of Starfire. Denny Bawanga pulling his pants down and pissing on the turf at Starfire in a random corner. ah Marcus Hanneman chugging a beer, you know, Clint Dempsey picking up a red card and ripping it in half in front of a goalkeeper or in front of the referee. Like iconic moments happen at these games.
01:32:52
Speaker
That said, it's a really shitty competition. It really is. Like it's poorly marketed. It's poorly filmed. It's poorly broadcasted. disaster. It's a disaster.
01:33:04
Speaker
on that front. Like I get why MLS doesn't want to be in it. They want to do leagues cup and we have always said we enjoy leagues cup and it's famously the most important tournament ever created. ah But aside from that, like they've basically said F you we're doing leagues cup and we're not doing.
01:33:21
Speaker
Open Cup. It sucks. it's really It really does suck. I wish that the Defiance were still able to play in it because... That's how I feel. I had such a fun time watching them almost beat Portland. I thought that was sick. I know a lot of people like were really upset when it when the first team wasn't playing in it and it turned out to be Defiance.
01:33:41
Speaker
And I get that. and But I enjoyed that. in a I think that's what sucks about it is that... I could live with the first team ah not always playing in it every year or not playing in it at all.
01:33:58
Speaker
But having Defiance in it was was capable and it was fun. That was a good middle ground compromise. The game against the Timbers, like you said, was a lot of fun. We got a great vlog out of that.
01:34:10
Speaker
So... that's what the Having the zero representation, like not even having defiance in there, that is a ah that is a bummer. And also, you know just a to devil's advocate on the point of ah the Open Cup has been devalued from... like shitty marketing and the broadcasts and the fields that they play on and like all that all that stuff is true but the people who argue against that would argue that it's sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy situation where they're not putting any resources into making it better in in those ways and so they're kind of setting it up to fail and then and then being like oh well see we can't play in this this is this is not a professional operation and it's like you could make it a professional operation if you
01:34:57
Speaker
actually put the time, energy, and resources into it. You just choose not to because you want to prioritize leagues go. It's just the thing that that the truth is too, that like, if you look around the world, the FA cup, you think people, do you think like it's it's, it's very similar. Like it's a secondary tournament. It's something that's not super important to these and MLS clubs. Like it's their division one teams. Like you think that a division one team is going to be more excited.
01:35:24
Speaker
Like the, the, the, I don't know. like Watching Ballard play, watching Spokane play, watching the Des Moines Menace sign Sasha Kleschen. He's like, let me dish the worst takes you've ever seen on ah on Apple TV and then go get a red card in Open Cup. Didn't they have like five?
01:35:42
Speaker
Wasn't BWP? Yeah, they had the whole MLS grandpa squad out there. like It was crazy. ah there was a lot of them. Yeah. um But yeah, like it's fun, but it is an unserious tournament. Like it's, that's the truth. Like I get it.
01:35:59
Speaker
It's like people are saying like that kind of the point and the charm of it, which is yeah true. That's not how the oligarchs look at it. I'm not, I'm not here saying that I love the open cup. I think it's awesome. It's it's opened up ah opportunities for so many players as well. I think that it's a good development place. um But people then get pissed off when the kids are playing. So it's a whole other thing. It is a tournament where no one is ever happy.
01:36:23
Speaker
And that is all I'm i'm trying to say. It's like you're not making the oligarchs happy. You're not really making a lot of fans happy. It's poorly marketed. It's poorly. It's just like it's it in US soccer is is a part. It's I just it's like it's a mess. Okay. And it sucks. It's a beautiful mess.
01:36:43
Speaker
But that's the reality. And I wish that the defines were playing in it. So what is your understanding that like the defiance not being in it is related it related to it being a world cup year and theoretically they would be back in it next year. So yeah, basically what's happening is like they're cutting down the the duration of it. So they're cutting out that first round ah which is like where all the MLS next pro teams they're basically just cutting all the MLS next pro teams. If they're not in it for this next year for that reason, and then in future open cups, the defiance are, i just want the defiance to be in it. I think it's i think that was
01:37:21
Speaker
not only like fun content, but that was like such good experience for those guys to like get to play in those games. Like you're putting young players, you're giving them a chance to to prove themselves and play in these high intensity, high pressure moments.
01:37:37
Speaker
There's, there's no better way to develop than reps like that. I agree. That's like, honestly, as much as the fun of the games and the moments and all that, you're losing like a kind of key developmental platform in a way. Like that's how I think ah someone was pointing, Jake might've been pointing out in chat. That's how a lot of guys who are now on the first team kind of first made their name, Paul Rothrock included. Yeah.
01:38:03
Speaker
I think there's a way to make this work for everyone, which is like, you just ban next pro teams. You put every, every and MLS team in there under their logo and you can play whoever you want on your roster. I think that's a good idea. like Like, You can play the next pro, but they' they are the Sounders. Yeah. You can play Academy kids. You can play on it you can play anyone. You can play anyone. Just like open it up. like I think that there is a way to make it work for everyone. And you can still have the brand you know the brand name of of these and MLS teams. is's just like That's what I'm saying. like it's not
01:38:38
Speaker
i love I'm not here shitting on the Open Cup. like I love the Open Cup. we've made videos about the open cup. It's just the reality. Like you have to look at it from all of these perspectives of like, how does the club perceive it? How does a fan perceive it? How does a player perceive it? And it's just like, it's just not working right now. And it sucks. And I hope that this year, maybe they can kind of,
01:39:02
Speaker
Shuffles. I don't know what's going to happen with it. It will always be here in some sense, but I am very sad that we won't get to go out to star fire and watch our, our boys, uh, at the defiance who don't play in Tacoma, but pretend to play in Tacoma. Um, they just, they won't have that. which A lot of people get really upset when, ah like when Seattle's first team was an open cup and they would play younger lineups and, uh,
01:39:31
Speaker
you know, they would get eliminated sometimes cause it's like, they weren't playing anything close to their first choice lineup. Cause they were dealing with a fixture congestion and people really didn't like that. To me, it seems like it's just kind of clear things evolve sometimes, right? Like it's yes. Like first teams used to go really hard in the open cup, especially like when Seattle first gotten MLS, they were like sending their big dogs out there. They were gunning for it in that tournament. That was great. I think what it's evolved into, especially like with the advent of leagues cup, like, like it or not, it's here to stay. Yep. So with the advent of leagues cup, open cups, the the function of the open cup is kind of evolved into a more like developmental platform. That's why i never thought of that idea, but the idea of,
01:40:17
Speaker
letting them brand it as the first team, but play the defiance guys. Like what's wrong with that? That's a good, like, that's a good idea. You've got to open it up. You've got to make it work for the teams. And that's what I'm saying is like us soccer needs to work with.
01:40:30
Speaker
am um It just, you have to figure people will bitch and moan all day that, Oh, league's cup is a cash grab and it's ruining the beauty of the open
Sounders' Attacking Strategy Analysis
01:40:39
Speaker
cup. The, you know, whatever brother,
01:40:43
Speaker
Do you really want to watch Houston Dynamo versus San Jose Earthquakes at 9.30 p.m. in some random stadium? and it's like Even if you do want that, you should be able to understand that there's not like widespread appeal for that.
01:40:58
Speaker
Yeah, like you have to like you have to understand. Is someone going to pay for that in a random stadium in a random small stadium? Or are they going to watch... ah Cruz Azul versus the Seattle Sounders. Like, I understand.
01:41:13
Speaker
I get it. I get it. I get it. But, like, you have to you have to be realistic. Everyone needs to be realistic. let's Let's find a way to make this shit work. And you can you can do that.
01:41:24
Speaker
it's It's possible. Yeah. It is unfortunate, though, like having no Seattle area representation. like that's a Guys, how many how many goals did this underscore against Chris Azul? I couldn't remember.
01:41:38
Speaker
and maybe you could Maybe you could count them up in chat. I don't i don't remember how many he scored.
01:41:44
Speaker
this right? this right? Seven, maybe? Seven? Seven?
01:41:50
Speaker
God, that game was so sick. Oh my God. That's like, you know how people just talk about guys. Sometimes they you just bring up a guy. You're just like, you ever remember,
01:42:02
Speaker
you ever remember Andrew Craven? You know, you just like bring up a guy. That's going to be my thing. You guys ever remember that Puskas, Cruz Azul game?
01:42:13
Speaker
I do. I was there. Oh, okay. ah I had two more things that I ah that i wanted to hit, Noah. yeah Before we do the Moose corps discourse, I wanted to bring up a... ah I got tagged on Blue Sky.
01:42:27
Speaker
Oh. You got called out. I got called out. Holy shit. Someone didn't like my take about the Seattle Sounders offense from last year, bringing up a lot of points that are bad points.
01:42:41
Speaker
how many which wait How many characters? Which is why I wanted to address me broke him. broke them up into two. but Did he go 4K words or what? No, no, but he packed a lot in the words that he he did write. But like I'm going to pull it up, not to antagonize the the person who wrote it. In fact, I will say before we do this,
01:42:59
Speaker
I love it when people disagree with me and call me out generates discussion. So that's my whole job. I encourage, I honestly encourage people to do what this guy did. And I appreciate that he, he did that. So I'm not like trying to them on blast, but I am going to, going to address some of these points. I'm going to pull it up.
01:43:17
Speaker
I'm gonna pull it up
01:43:22
Speaker
Tags me right here. Says, I absolutely hate how you keep saying 80 goals across all comps. Fucking cop out. Sounders were tied for eighth in goals this season. 23 goals behind the leader. We don't get to play Antigua week after week. They play in MLS.
01:43:37
Speaker
And then he goes on to say, gave up 68 goals, all comps, which is Civ like, right? Civ? Civ like. But I don't hear you much saying about being plus 10 in goal differential this season. And that is down from plus 15 in 2024. Okay. So this is, ah this is an issue that more than this person have brought up, which is, you know, I've been, I've been saying I've been giving them,
01:44:03
Speaker
I've been giving them credit in the all-encompassing evaluation for the goals they scored in CCC in Leagues Cup and citing that as the number of goals that they scored last season. And we've got like we've got we got a few things going on here, ah which is that we gotta it doesn't count argument first and foremost. So let's ah I just want to address that first because the implication here is like,
01:44:30
Speaker
the goal scoring total all comps is inflated because of games like the Antigua game, I guess is the example. And you're only looking at league play to make your evaluation of the offense, which was 58 goals in this case. And I understand some people like see this differently, but I just, I just don't agree with that. I think when you're evaluating the attack from last year,
01:44:58
Speaker
you got to look at the whole body of work and not just league play. You can take away the six goals they scored against Antigua and the output was still phenomenal. They would still be at 80 goals, all comps.
01:45:12
Speaker
And I think if you're if you're trying to argue that the League's Cup goals don't count, I think that is honestly just ridiculous. That was like a very integral, important part of the season that they put a lot into a lot of like their best lineups, their best players, their best performances were aimed at winning that trophy. And it was wildly successful. So all those goals that they scored in that tournament, I count towards the total performance of the offense. If you don't, and you want to say they don't count, that's your prerogative, but you're, you're kidding yourself. Like you, you have to take the whole body of work into account. And just to address the ah second part about like us not talking about the defense, the,
01:45:56
Speaker
there's just no way you listen to the show. If that's what you're saying, like, there's no way, like the whole point of me bringing up that point about the offense is To me, when I look at like the problems with this team, that's where I'm talking about it through a lens of that. like What do they need to improve on? What do they need to fix next year? Yeah, there's stuff that they can do to with the offensive personnel to make sure like they maintain this output. But the whole point is that the issue was the defense, which is what I've been saying all along. The goals conceded were the bigger issue with this team than them being unable to score goals. They scored a lot of goals.
01:46:39
Speaker
Goals galore. That's the other thing. ah He's saying tied for eighth and goals this season in the league. Like that's like a bad stat. 58 goals for a league season.
01:46:51
Speaker
The way I think of it is like. Oh, by the way, your main strikers out basically the whole season, half the season, your best winger is out. well Huh? Yeah. Yeah.
01:47:07
Speaker
Like, go back go back and look at how many goal contributions Jordan Morris had last season. And you want to go you wanna talk about plus or minus goal differential. Yeah, and well, and like, i don't know, plus 10 from plus 15, I don't think is like an insane drop off. But they scored 58 goals in the league this season, which isn't like an incredible total, but it's pretty damn good. Like, the way I look at it is...
01:47:30
Speaker
You want to be like in that 60 range. If you're in that 60 range, that's a pretty good attacking season in the league. They end up at 58, which yeah, it's eighth in the league. And 20 of them were offside. There was 20 called back for offside. Yeah, that too. 58 was top 10 in the league. Like this guy even said, top 10 in the league, fifth in the West. That's pretty good. That's good. And when you combine that with the fact that they were ripping it up in leagues cup and scored 16, 17 goals on top of that, uh, that's even, that's even better. And I, I count the ones from CCC too.
01:48:08
Speaker
The thing about saying that goals against Antigua don't count is that every club who plays in CCC is is gets roughly the same amount of those types of games against opponents like that. When you have, when you have a good offense, what you do in games like that is you put it on that team. You score six goals across two games against them.
01:48:29
Speaker
You do your job, you be professional and you don't let anything crazy happen. They did that. So they get credit for that. If they were the only team in CCC that was playing a team like Antigua, maybe there would be more to that.
01:48:41
Speaker
But everyone gets those same opportunities. Some teams are good and capitalize on them and take care of business. Others don't. We see teams get eliminated in CCC by teams like Antigua all the time. So to just say we don't play Antigua every week, like that's...
01:48:59
Speaker
you had to score You had to score those goals to like to to get by them in the tournament, which is what you're trying to do. So what are we talking about? I don't even want to take this from a statistical point of view because let's just... You know what? We're living in fantasy land anyway.
01:49:15
Speaker
Are you going to sit here and tell me that last season was more fun to watch and more effective attacking soccer than what we watched this season? You think the team last year was putting up seven against Cruz? You think the team last year...
01:49:32
Speaker
would have even made it to a third game against Minnesota? Hell no. No. Hell no. They did exactly. Brian Schmetzer did exactly what everyone asked for. They they they made this team fun to watch. They were effective. they They were able to, in many cases, break through and win games that they would not have been able to win last season.
01:49:58
Speaker
where they just weren't able to find a goal. They couldn't, they couldn't buy a goal. Like they just, it like it was so hard for them to score the one. Remember multiple goals. yeah Yes. The multiple goals bit. Exactly. I feel like people forget about this. This was a year ago. And that's where we were at. So like, if you're, if you're going to look at a season where they score 87 all comps and tell me that,
01:50:23
Speaker
The ones against Antigua don't count. That doesn't like disprove anything that we're saying about the offense. To me, when I look at this team, I see a team that had one of the best attacks in in MLS this year.
01:50:35
Speaker
But that it was almost like, a I feel like they struggled to find the balance between what they were in 24 and then what they were trying to be in 25, where it ended up like they ended up leaking way more goals. i genuinely think I genuinely think, and I mean this so holdheartedly, if they get past Minnesota, they win they win the point like they win MLS Cup this year.
01:50:57
Speaker
If they can keep doing what they're doing from from the League's Cup and bring that momentum into the playoffs, if they get past Minnesota, which was literally just their thorn in their side the whole season...
01:51:10
Speaker
I truly believe that they could have beaten beaten any team. Okay. So this is actually... looked that good It's not about the stats. It's not about the numbers. It's not about plus 10, plus 5 gold differential bullshit. It's about... Did you watch? Did you watch the games? Did you have them on the television?
01:51:26
Speaker
This team looked... violent They looked just like sweltering. And they would bury a time in the throw. God, I love watching this. are you like Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Paul Rothrock stealing the ball off the fucking goalkeeper? Like, what are you talking about? This attack was incredible.
01:51:47
Speaker
Incredible. they They got so good at... they got so good at high pressing and winning the ball in like really dangerous areas, high up the field and getting goals off that in a way that they just weren't doing in 2024 at all. And that became like such a strong suit of their, in of their game in a way that was ah Like it was, it was exhilarating at times. Like, I don't know how you're like, who's watching that league's cup game and saying that, why are you even mad? What are even mad about? So I think the implication is like, people want the offense to be bad because they have like this, they got this agenda.
01:52:29
Speaker
that they've had dating back to 2024 and they, they can't let go of it. That's what this is. They can't, they're pathologically incapable of looking at an entire season's worth that just like that disproves what they're talking about and changing their perspective. So now they're tagging me on, uh, on the sky, but like exactly it, this is exactly it The XG wars of 2024 were catastrophic. Brother, brother, the amount of times that I had to literally crash out and smack my microphone into my head because we were talking about, it's going to come, guys. i I promise the goals are going come. there They've got three XG in this game. It's out like they they should have. They were there. Like it was going to.
01:53:13
Speaker
it didn't even We didn't even have to talk about it. There was no XG merchening. They were just scoring the goals like pretty much all all season. like and if if Listen, anytime I don't have to think about XG, that's that's a beautiful day.
01:53:27
Speaker
That's a good offense. all right This whole conversation is making me so glad we don't have to deal with the XG wars of
Moose's Contribution and Future
01:53:34
Speaker
2024. We were at each other's throats. Yeah, we were. we were there's Thank you, Brian Schmetzer, for saving this podcast. There's work to be to be done with this ah this this roster. That's not to say that they can't get better, that they shouldn't sign and attack attacking players, or that they shouldn't sign a you twenty two number nine. But we just we just need to start this conversation from a place of reality, which is that they were they were scoring at a ridiculous clip, and the fact that they only came in at 58 in the league definitely does not disprove that. So but that actually that's a good segue for ah for the last topic, because the moose the moose debate is still in full force. Nico and I got into it over it on on Monday. We don't need to go down the the whole rabbit hole.
01:54:23
Speaker
But like we got a couple of responses to that. I got cooked. So I got to, I got to respond. Listen, this is the hill that you chose to die on and they are pouring molten lava down your anthill right now. I'll keep, I'll, I'll, I'll keep dying on it, but okay, let's, let's start it with something that you just said, which is that this attack was a freaking buzzsaw for a lot of last year. It was through all of leagues cup and,
01:54:50
Speaker
And honestly, even, even in the playoffs after the clean sheet against Minnesota, they, they racked seven goals in the last two games of the season against Minnesota. This is really good.
01:55:02
Speaker
The moose, the moose debate comes down to like, do you think moving off him and replacing him, no matter how much game or Tam or whatever you get, like,
01:55:15
Speaker
are It's two separate questions. What's better for this team long-term in the future, in the next few years after this year, or what's better for 2026? twenty twenty six And i continue I continue to think that if we're talking about purely 2026, there's at least a very compelling point.
01:55:35
Speaker
argument to be made that Moose being a part of that makes, makes total sense. And that in fact, not only does it make sense, but it's something that they, ah that they should do. And, you know, I don't need to go rehash my entire take on it, but I, I think that ah I think people are too dismissive of the season that Moose just had. And we're not like properly acknowledging or appreciating how insane the season was.
01:56:01
Speaker
like the season he had really was. So to illustrate that, going to throw, going to throw some stats at, you know, but it's just, it's, you, you should be able to understand, understand these. It's literally just goals plus assists. Okay.
01:56:17
Speaker
In all of MLS. Okay. But why are we even talking about this? It's not about that he had a good season or that he couldn't play well. It's about he's old and you need to make room.
01:56:29
Speaker
And it makes no contractual sense to keep him when you could get money from him, when you could open That depends what the offer is. That depends what the offer is. No, it doesn't make any sense. You have Osaze. You want to sign U22. Where does it make sense in the roster build to keep him? It doesn't make any sense. You exercise this option. You already have him on the roster. Yes, I know, but I'm saying you move him. You open up more space. It's purely a roster building thing. It's not about that if he came back, I have...
01:57:01
Speaker
I don't know if he could do it again. It doesn't really matter though, because he did what he did and it was impressive and it was good. And he looked really good. It's the same system. They're running the same players. I get it. But the problem is he's elderly. He's old. Get some value for him, man.
01:57:17
Speaker
He's 30. That's not that old for a number nine. That doesn't really rely on speed and athleticism as much. That's true. For 2026. Like it's not. that So that's, I think that is sort of like, Oh, that's like, that's like dirt.
01:57:30
Speaker
yeah yeah I don't like he's not aged out for 2026. Like the, the, I don't think there's this like crazy drop off potential from the ages of 29 to 30. Don't the things that would cause that are going to get your money. Now get your money. Now get your bread.
01:57:48
Speaker
But like him, train him for a winger. What good, what good is the bread? If you can't replace his goal scoring production and have, feel confident in the plan that you have to, uh, what's his goals per 90 compared to Osase?
01:58:04
Speaker
I mean, I don't, I don't know. Osase is on a way smaller. yeah So what? So what? so what goals so So you can rely you can rely on a sample size that Moose prove proved it over more than you can that Osaze did. The Osaze point is something to be taken into account, but I think like you want to talk about the risks of relying on Georgie. All those exact same points could be made about Osaze. Yeah, he looked awesome in League's Cup, but like...
01:58:34
Speaker
And the banking on him to being a carry the load goal scorer scoring player and moving off Moose when you don't have to to give him to just give him that role. I would not feel that ah that comfortable with that. And I also think, OK, so this is the thing that I was going to talk about that I won't even do the stat.
01:58:53
Speaker
Go for the set. Get the stats. where Get the stats. Get the stats out there. OK, OK. This is literally just who in MLS had the most goal plus assist in 2025. It's not an underlying number. It's not advanced stat.
01:59:05
Speaker
All right. what This is kind of funny to look at because you got messy at 56. This is all comps, by the way. You got messy at 56 and Sam Surridge is the next closest at 28.
01:59:16
Speaker
Peter Musa, Sam Surridge, Peter Musa, two of the best pure number nines in the league. Martino Hada, freaking MVP candidate. ah who was tearing up the league for like three quarters of the season at 25. And then you go down to Hugo Kuypers, Luis Suarez, Moose right there, Chupo Moting, who just had an insane year, Baribo, who was up for the golden boot for a lot of the year, and Alonzo Martinez, who's one of the best forwards in the league. is this I'm not bringing this up to say that he's as ah good as all these players necessarily, but I think when we talk about the season that he just had, we need to be serious about like how good it really was because he got to this total. All the rest of these guys were playing every single minute of every single one of their team's leagues game league games. Moose wasn't. He only played 1,500 minutes in in the league last year, and he still ended up listed with all these guys.
02:00:09
Speaker
If anyone is doubting that, they're dumb. But no one's doubting that. That's not the reason not to re-sign him. It's purely a roster-building thing. getting rid of a goal scorer that's that productive and that efficient when you don't have to is not good roster building. Unless you have, unless you have a very serious, george concrete, good plan to replace it, which I don't know if they have that. And the fact that he just had a season like that, like that was listed up with all, all these guys, ah you know, you can say that it's the, it's all the system and he was just poaching you
02:00:47
Speaker
Whatever. But like, so the comp that I was taking heat for was i i was comping him to Brian White. Okay. Vancouver Whitecap striker, which Nico didn't like that comp. Chat didn't like that comp. but but Just listen, listen, listen, don't leave, don't leave the stream.
02:01:05
Speaker
Don't leave the stream.
02:01:08
Speaker
Okay. Okay.
02:01:12
Speaker
i'm not I'm not saying that he's as good as Brian White. I'm not. I'm not. But when you look at these seasons that they had last year, it was pretty much the same, okay? And if you want to okay if you want to tell me that Brian White is a better, like, upper tier, like a tier above player. Brian White was injured.
02:01:31
Speaker
Yeah, Moose didn't play because he was not in the lineup because someone else was starting or whatever. So like they played roughly the same amount of minutes and had the same amount of production. I fully agree with the point that Brian White is a slightly better, more well-rounded player. Okay, I can... Slightly is a crazy word to add in there.
02:01:51
Speaker
The goal production was the same is is the point. Brian White is a hundred times better than Danny Mussovsky. it's My point is that it's a similar it's the similar profile of guy in terms of like a random MLS super draft pick domestic striker whose goal scoring production far out exceeds their name value. If you go back to when Brian White was first on the Whitecaps, no one thought that Brian White Was this good? Whoa, whoa, whoa. We we like Scottish Messi, first of all.
02:02:24
Speaker
Scottish Messi? But i'm I'm not talking about Scottish Messi. But we liked we liked them all. We liked the whole crew. We liked Brian White too. it's It's a number nine, again, whose goal production is vastly exceeding what you would think they would be able to do from their name value. They scored pretty much the same amount of goals last year. And part, my point is too, part of like the advantage of a situation like this is if you have...
02:02:50
Speaker
a player like that, who's a domestic player who you're not paying all that much money for. Moose was on 400, 500 K last year. That's like one of the biggest roster hacks that you can have.
02:03:01
Speaker
And the best teams in this league, the bet, the teams that build the best rosters and something that Seattle has been very good at, they find those, they find those little, those deals that you can get those ways to kind of skirt around the salary cap. Like in this case, you could get a 200 K cap hit on a U 22.
02:03:20
Speaker
and have no idea if they can produce anywhere near the clip that Moose just But you're starting Jordan Morris, so it's fine, and you have Osaze as a backup. you're starting The Moose-Jordan rotation at that spot is much more comfortable, in my opinion, than Jordan-Osaze, especially with Jordan coming off a year where he was injured all year, and Osaze is still being unproven.
02:03:44
Speaker
Ferreira. Do you think that's going to work as well as Moose at the nine? He had five goals last year. You almost had to get a tattoo. I did almost have a good. I'm just saying there's options, brother, and you can sell him and get money and get and and get space. And like, I just.
02:04:01
Speaker
I don't know. i I don't know. I can't I can't buy into it. I can't buy. I can't buy the stock. I can't. I can't. That's fine. That's fine. Listen, i mean brother, it's called Enron. I can't buy it.
02:04:13
Speaker
i i know no one else ah I know no one else is buying it, but like i I just don't see... Yeah, okay, so let's... All right, this guy's saying one season. So that's the other thing that Nico was saying is ah you know he's talking about the the track record. like Brian White has multi-season track record of his production and Moose doesn't. And if you go through Moose's track record, what happened last year was like this total outlier. Yeah.
02:04:40
Speaker
But if you want to talk about track record, let's let's actually look at the track record. Let's look at the track record. Because I think this is a point that gets lost in this a little bit, which is that the whole thing with Moose,
02:04:53
Speaker
There is no track record. that is That's like how they were able to sign him. this is his ah This is his career right here. Nico is talking about a 1,200-minute sample that he had for Real Salt Lake in 2023 where he scored five goals in 1,200 minutes, which is okay, but certainly not the rate he was scoring this year when he had 14 in 1,500 minutes.
02:05:18
Speaker
You guys know how hard that is to do? 14 and 1500 minutes. I love Jordan Morris. He's never had a had a season where he was scoring like that. The last striker that the Sounders had who had seasons like this was Rui Diaz.
02:05:29
Speaker
That's not comping them as players. That's just looking at their goal production. 14 goals in 1500 minutes is pretty much exactly the type of season that Rui Diaz always had for the Sounders because he was like a part-time player. He was injured all the time.
02:05:42
Speaker
So like that's the, that is like the level of production that we're talking about here. Looking at the rest of his track record, you have these three years with LAFC where he played 500 minutes, 700 minutes, and 600 minutes. And you have 11 goals that he scored over the those three years.
02:06:02
Speaker
none None of that is anything that I think you can... draw any like track record conclusions from like i really don't think so if these looked like were if these were 2k minute seasons where these numbers were the same or even like 1500 minute seasons with lafc where the goal scoring numbers are the same like i might see that differently but like these 1200 minutes in 23 with real salt lake we have no idea what the context for that was like for all for all we know like he could have been in a lot of great spots where his teammates were missing him, where he would have scored if he was on a better team or whatever. We just, we just don't know. So like the argument of like, he's never done it before. So we all, we already know for a fact it's an outlier. When you actually look at the track record, I just don't think that's true. And if I did look at it and I felt differently, like I would, I would say it, I would be like, that's an outlier.
02:06:50
Speaker
The odds he's going to do that again are are pretty low, but that's not actually That's not actually the case. And I think the reality is that ah to me, it's actually more likely that if Moose had been given more minutes in his career, he would it's more likely to me he would be closer to the type of player we saw this last year than it is that he's just this total bum and last year was an outlier.
02:07:17
Speaker
so I don't think he's a bum, but I also think you're ignoring the biggest fact of this. He was surrounded by one of the most lethal attacks in wing plays anywhere.
02:07:30
Speaker
He had the benefit of Pedro de la Vega. He had the benefit of Paul Rothrock, Jesus Ferreira, Albert Rusnak. He has all of these weapons. He's never, ever, ever been on a team and may never again be on a team with that many weapons. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. He wasn't getting it done at Real Salt Lake because they had no one around him. He's not the super stud superstar that I think like you're making him out to be. I understand that like it's about a guy who fits in and slots in and makes production when you need it.
02:08:03
Speaker
I agree with that. And i don't I don't even think that it's a terrible idea to keep him. But the reality is he had a fucking super team, dude. He was playing with an extra DP. He's playing with some of the most productive attackers in the entire league.
02:08:23
Speaker
I'm telling you right now, there's a reason that Osaze De Rosario was able to step into that position and be successful. It's not because Osaze De Rosario is a superhero. He was talented. He was talented at the defiance, but he was a really good Nexpro player. He was a really good Canadian Premiership player.
02:08:43
Speaker
But he's always been on the bubble. He's always been on the bubble. You can look at him just like Moose. Do you think that he is somehow like 10 times better than Moose? I don't know. I think they're pretty comparable players, but I think he's a younger guy. He is on a development track. And the reality is, is you can take Moose,
02:09:03
Speaker
You can move him. You can make some money and you can do something. Well, not only for the club, but for himself, right? Like you're doing something good for Moose as well. You're going to get him more money.
02:09:16
Speaker
I don't understand how you don't like, I just, I don't understand the argument because it's like, I watched this guy play. I watched this guy play when he didn't have those weapons around him last season. You know what he looked like?
02:09:31
Speaker
terrible he looked terrible i understand the argument and i want to give you the benefit of the doubt i want to give you the benefit of the doubt he didn't have consistent playing time yes that is true that is true and that's the big caveat to this is right well we'll maybe we'll never know but that's the problem is you can't bank on that either because you don't know either you you're making assumptions with it neither of us know we're shooting in the dark so what i look at Let's go back to that season that Nico's talking about, right? Do we have the context for each of the individual games? Do we have the context for the team? No, but I think that we can both ah suss out that that was not that great of a team.
02:10:07
Speaker
That was not that was not 23 real Salt Lake. No. Yes. And so was he making magic happen? Absolutely not. And so I don't think that he's this like whisperer, really good player who like you just have to give him minutes to be successful. I think he's a type of player where you need to put him with good pieces and he can tap in goals. Can you say that about any striker?
02:10:31
Speaker
What can you say that about any striker? There's very few strikers that can transcend their surroundings if their surroundings are. I mean, that's what but the thing is. That's what Jordan Morris was doing last year. Like there was just no attacking momentum unless Jordan was able to make something happen. Right. Like when he was out, it was just a shit show trying to figure how to score. It was right. Like you remember that Danny Musavsky couldn't get it done.
02:10:54
Speaker
He was supposed to be that guy who was able to step in and make that thing happen. And it's like, that's that's just the truth. you you it's It's purely a financial decision where it makes the most sense going forward. And you already have someone in Osaze who, listen, I'm going to steal something from chat here. Osaze looks better on the eye test, faster, stronger, better dribbling. Do you remember how many times I remember Moose...
02:11:20
Speaker
did like the... With the ball just dribbling around and then fell over backwards on himself, like in the box. It's just the truth, man. like I think Moose is a great player, and I think he deserves a raise, and he deserves to go somewhere that he can be effective and score those goals. And I like him as a person.
02:11:36
Speaker
And I love his crash outs. They're fucking awesome. Yeah. But it just doesn't... doesn't yeah it it I can't get on board with it. I can't get on board with it. If you put him on another team, he's not going to do this. If you put him on this team again, he might do it.
02:11:54
Speaker
If he gets the run of minutes, but he's not going to get the run of minutes. Jordan's going to be healthy this year because I'm knocking on wood. Even if like, okay, even if Jordan is healthy next year, ah like you have a situation at the beginning of the season where you've got the road trip from hell with, uh,
02:12:11
Speaker
CCC and the start of the league season that you have to juggle. You're not going to be able to play the same eleven s ah like when you're juggling those games. so I think i I would rather have, i would, write I feel more comfortable. Like maybe you're super bought in in on Osaze. I would argue you're making way more assumptions on Osaze being, being ready to be that guy. When we have like an entire year from Moose where he literally just already was that guy.
02:12:42
Speaker
i just think you have a stitchback i have a stitch you you have a situation where you just got elite goal scoring production for 450 It bailed you out all of last season, by the way, because Jordan Morris wasn't available hardly at all. And the backup plan, which we were all skeptical of coming off 2024, actually cooked. And you have the contract option that you exercise where, like, you could theoretically get that production again, assuming, like, you know, assuming he can replicate it with all the same weapons you just mentioned coming back. I think it's decently likely that he can have a pretty similar season. And you have that for way below market value. That's a hack. That's, that is, that is the more smart financial decision than selling that for a bag and just giving the job to Osase when you don't really, I think Osase is, is good and can probably do it, but I don't know. And I also think we're, think we're overstating like,
02:13:43
Speaker
how much the system, the Sounders system or whatever, like had to do with it. Like, I don't think the Sounders system is really good. It's the best chance generation like they've had in a while. I don't think it just, acts I don't think it means that you could put like anyone in at the number nine and they'll do exactly what Moose did last year. I don't buy that at all. Like, I don't think so, but it's a, it's about the archetype of player.
02:14:09
Speaker
And you can't tell me that the archetype of player in Danny Musavski and Osazi De Rosario is not very similar.
02:14:20
Speaker
it's just the It's just a matter of...
02:14:25
Speaker
I don't know if I want to call Moose like proven off one year, but what like he did it all year. like there was There was no point where it slowed down. And you know what? And Osazi didn't get the minutes. If we just gave Osazi the minutes, he would have this season too.
02:14:38
Speaker
Cause that's, you're, that's, you're sure about that. that what you're care about But that's what you're sure about is it that i have wait I have a year. I have a year of sample size. You have like 500 minutes, but he's, he hasn't had the chance.
02:14:49
Speaker
He hasn't had the chance. So why can't we give him the chance? I'm happy to give him the chance. If Moose gets the chance, why can't he get the chance? Do you really not see the difference between a guy who literally just did it for an entire year and a guy who has barely played in his career?
02:15:05
Speaker
That's not the same thing. There's no way you're saying that's the same thing. Not nearly as much as Moose did. Yeah, for sure. There's no comparison in like the consistency and like,
02:15:19
Speaker
i just listen I cannot get on board with keeping Danny Musavsky when you can move him again. Like we're getting in chat here. Do we want to walk? Do we want Moose to walk for free or extend him through 2728?
02:15:34
Speaker
um You know, I don't know. It's just like the whole thing is five hundred five K. You're telling me you're telling me a guy. There is a guy who just like was performing at the same level as all those guys I just listed for five hundred and sixty five K. and You're just going to like.
02:15:50
Speaker
get rid of that because you believe in Osaze that much? I don't know, man. I think is i think this is just like anti-Moose. People just don't want to believe or accept that Moose just did what he just did. But he did it. It's not anti-Moose. It's about the... It's about like... They've already said they want to sign a U22 striker. Why the fuck would you keep Moose when you could sign U22 striker? to sign a U22 striker.
02:16:12
Speaker
They just... They say that they're going to do that, but they're not going to do it. i'm talking i'm talking to I'm not saying like he's the guy of the future. I'm talking about 2026. 2026, after what... twenty twenty six after what this attack with this personnel just did last year and what he did individually last year, you're, you're, you're, you're dismissing it in a way that you wouldn't any, any other player.
02:16:36
Speaker
I'm not dismissing it. I just, I literally caveat it all. This is the beginning by saying, we said an incredible saying, Oh, he only did it. He only did it because of the teammates. And we don't, I didn't say that. I said, no, no, no, no. That is exactly what you just said. That's not what I said. I said, listen, I said that,
02:16:55
Speaker
You can't tell me that his teammates did not play a large role in his success. And you said, could that not be said for any team? And I said, yeah, exactly. So you're telling me in your own words that anyone in that position requires a good team around them and frankly is held up by a good team around them. You said that that any striker, any striker, you said basically any striker needs a good team around them to be successful. So what are we talking about? I'm using your own words against you. You've lost the plot on that. We need order in this court. You've lost the plot on You've lost the plot. You're the one who was saying that it was all the components around him, and that's the only reason. The way you talk about it, you could literally drag anyone off the street. Put me in there. That's not how it works in reality. I'm scoring 10. I'm scoring 10, and I'm getting a Paul Rothrock contract. I'm telling you right now.
02:17:52
Speaker
I'm telling you right now, I have a wicked, wicked, wicked, terrible shot and I'm putting 10 in. I'm telling you. If I had Jesus Ferraro... You guys are all bugging.
02:18:04
Speaker
You're all on me. we put up a poll? Let's put up a poll on the YouTube channel. going to lose poll. I really don't care. i think this i think this whole this I think this whole thing is stupid. This is my favorite Hill you've ever had because it's like I agree with you that he's a he had an incredible season. Anyone in chat would have scored 10 plus goals. We have like a minimal disagreement, but it's like, no.
02:18:25
Speaker
um
02:18:32
Speaker
but Like...
02:18:35
Speaker
Then... Why sign any, why sign the U22 number nine? Like why, like you can just put in anybody and they're going to the same thing. Like. Because you're going to build up a U22 to be talented and to replace Jordan Morris. That's the whole point.
02:18:53
Speaker
Moose is not going to replace Jordan Morris. Who is going to replace Jordan Morris? Not fucking Daniel Musavski. I'll tell you that right fucking now. It's two different questions. 2026 versus beyond that. you have to You have to start planning now. You have to be thinking three years ahead. Why? Signing Moose and just playing Moose is not thinking three years ahead. It's not. It's just not. It's just not.
02:19:13
Speaker
I just, I can't get behind it. I can't get behind it. Y'all are just anti-Moose. It's fine. It's fine.
02:19:22
Speaker
I love Moose. I love him. I think if they did move off of him,
02:19:31
Speaker
it would, you y'all would be reality checked on this. Guys who can guys who can score 14 goals in 1,500 minutes are not easy to find. If you think Osaze could do that exact same thing.
02:19:41
Speaker
If he comes back and puts up a stinker, what are you going to say? And then I'll be like, yeah, that it was an outlier and I was wrong. Exactly. So i'm going to say the same thing. If he comes back and puts up a bunch of numbers, I'll say, awesome, I was wrong. All right, then we'll see. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. We should put a bet on this.
02:19:56
Speaker
We should what? We should put a bet on this. Yeah, what do you want to bet? We don't know if he's going to be back yet. let's let's this is This is contingent on him coming back on and playing, and there's got to be like a minutes number. Chat, why don't you guys why don't you guys help come up with some of these? But this is this is good. there are There are people that agree with me on this. No, it's pretty dude, it's pretty evenly split. yeah It's 37 to 60, but like I feel like the general consensus online is pretty split.
02:20:29
Speaker
Can't say anyone would score 10 when Jesus couldn't buy a goal playing as the nine. That's the, like, it's, I think i think it's way oversimplifying it to say, like. Jesus Ferreira is a reason. He's the reason he's scoring so much. What are we talking about? Jesus Ferreira is. We're crashing out about him as the nine as the nine more than anyone.
02:20:45
Speaker
Yes, exactly. That proves my point, that you need people around you to be successful. So when you pull one of the best facilitators in the whole fucking league out of his position, and then you put him at the nine, which was never his fucking position to begin with.
02:20:58
Speaker
What are we talking about? This is exactly proving my point. If you have good facilitators, anyone can score. He's a fucking incredible facilitator. That's why he played there. That's why he played on the wing. That's why Albert Rusnak had an incredible season. And then you have Paul Rothrock and Pedro De La Vega. You had the fucking dream team of three distributors. And just like you could literally put a warm body, a wheelchair, a rebounder.
02:21:19
Speaker
You could put a fucking rebounder in there. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. Please. We're understating how incredibly good Jesus Ferreira, Albert Rosnack, and Pedro De La Vega are. you can are is that that this It's the best attacking trio in the entire league. Hands down.
02:21:35
Speaker
Hands down. Messi doesn't have shit on them. Literally.
02:21:42
Speaker
i don't think you i don't know i don't think you can plug and play any nine and and and expect like that those type of... results. but We'll you willll find out. you could you put that trio You put that trio in in in in the championship?
02:21:56
Speaker
Brother. I'm telling you. I don't know. I think it i think that has actually kind of the proven the point the opposite way because he made 400k this last year and is making 585 this year.
02:22:09
Speaker
this year but why why i will cannot Why change that plan when you're getting it for that cheap? It's like a great deal. concede to your point of Moose could be a good option on the salary that he's making considering that he's proven because I don't think that that's a bad point. I will concede on that. If you concede that that is there there you cannot pretend that this isn't one of the best attacking trios with distribution specifically, which aids in the fact that... like that that
02:22:41
Speaker
so visibly aided him in his ability to, to have chances to convert. Yes. You have to convert them. I understand that he missed a fuck load of them too. His his conversion percentage is not one of the best, but he had so many opportunities in quality positions that even a brick could lay that up. Like you have to at least admit that his, the distribution that he was getting was such an important piece of his success. Yes, obviously. I just don't see why that's, why is that, why is that relevant to whether like he should be on the team or not? Like that's, again, that's like any striker, like you need like and and a poacher number nine like that, or any type of number nine, ah like a lot of the times it is dependent on the service that they get. That's not a novel concept. That's not more true of Moose than it is any other striker.
02:23:32
Speaker
So I don't see like what that proves. Okay, so it isn't any more true or less true with Moose, then you could just put anyone in there. We'll find out. We will find out. We're going in circles at this point, but we will find out. I love you, Ari. No, I mean, it's it's it's great discourse, and i'm I'm happy to be the one dying on the hill because... Because when you're right...
02:23:53
Speaker
It's going to look so sick. i Well, but the the funny thing is I think the most likely outcome is that they're just going to keep them because, you know, I think what I was saying earlier about, I think what I was saying earlier about like, in all In all likelihood, we for all the for all the hell we know, they there was freaking Chris Wondolowski out there this entire time, and no MLS team was ever just giving
Wilfred Nancy's Celtic Potential and Sounders' Offseason Moves
02:24:14
Speaker
him minutes. I don't think he was like that good a player, but I think if you ask the Sounders front office, like do you think he is closer to the player we saw last year, or do you think it was an outlier?
02:24:26
Speaker
i think they i think they would agree with me, and you can say that they're crazy on that, but but they did cook on it so far. They, they cooked on it last year and it saved the season.
02:24:36
Speaker
So to dismiss that offhand and say that anyone could do it, I just don't, I don't agree. I don't agree. And, uh, I, uh, I'm going to continue to die on the Hill. So I can't wait to cut this video and title it two idiots fight over a moose.
02:24:52
Speaker
It's good. It's good discourse. Uh, Nico and I, uh, went at it over this on, on Monday. We went at, uh, went at it on it tonight. So, uh, I'm, we're going to keep doing it too. We're going keep doing it all off season until we figure out what the hell is, uh, is great. that I appreciate, uh, appreciate everyone giving their perspectives. Uh, no, let's get out of here, but, uh, real quick before we go, you have any, ah and MLS Cup thoughts or predictions? People were asking.
02:25:17
Speaker
um Let's go Vancouver. Why? Go Caps. Why not? i like I like the Caps roster. I like Jesper Sorensen. I like ah i like i look at Cascadia win Again, they're not our rivals. They just are like the cute team to the north. And and I like that. And we've both been hot on this Caps team all season. They kind of replaced our our LA Galaxy fandom. And I don't know. I feel like we've been like recognizing the quality the past few seasons. And so it would be kind of cool for them to finally get rewarded on that. And more than that... ah
02:25:58
Speaker
they just They made so many good moves in this past offseason. like
Vancouver's Playoff Potential
02:26:03
Speaker
It is truly in the same vein that the Sounders ideology differs from the Messi-ite thing. like you know They moved Pedro Vitae. They made a bunch of transfers and then somehow reloaded and got even better ah in the midst of like pretending to sell their team. So it's like...
02:26:25
Speaker
I don't
Fan Interactions and Closing Remarks
02:26:26
Speaker
know. i'm i'm I'm a fan and I just don't want Messi to win anything. Yeah. Agreed with all that. We got super chat to close it out from a good one. I believe our LAFC friend. beso bluma keunddawe i don't know that means, but thank you for the 10 one. Appreciate you. All right.
02:26:46
Speaker
We're going to get out of here on that. Good, ah good Danny. Lay of a discourse. Good moose discourse. Good open cup discourse. Good stuff all around. Thank Love you. bob you on The,
02:26:57
Speaker
off-season content no one thanks for for tapping in we we got we got we got good discussion always it's always a joy to spend time with you ari you're yeah you're you're the greatest that was uh that was awesome everyone like the video sub to the channel uh shout out to everyone in chat defending me on the moose take there's only a few of you out there but you're the real ones i love it and shout out to everyone defending my position on the mistake you're the real one stick stick there's there's two sides and there's pick your side right this is an about you should make a shirt that's Danny Mussovsky, this is about morality. This is where you about where you stand.
02:27:30
Speaker
You should make a shirt that's that's just a moose shirt, but it's irr reversible. So it says, I love Danny Mussovsky. And then on the inside, it says, I hate Danny Mussovsky. And you can just flip it over based on like how you're feeling at the time.
02:27:41
Speaker
i'm the I'm the Moose defender, I guess. I'm the Moose defender. But that's that's a role that I'm going take. I honestly don't care if anyone agrees with me. I feel like I saw the light on this. but ah He's enlightened. apparently reading your ball Apparently, it's unpopular. But I don't mind going against the green. but All right, we'll be back at it on... ah Monday, i guess. Maybe maybe I'll rip a little MLS Cup reaction on Saturday or Sunday or something. But failing that, we'll be back at it Lobby Scorchers kickoff with Nico on Monday.
02:28:13
Speaker
Like, comment, rate five stars, lobbyscorchers.com slash sauce. See you guys next time. Until then, we out. Peace.